Rebel News Podcast - Jody Wilson-Raybould vs. Justin Trudeau： How will this end？

00:00:00.000 Hello, my rebels. Today, we're going to talk a little bit about Jody Wilson-Raybould, Jane Philpott, and the other dissident liberals.

00:00:07.660 And by the way, I think you could see more. I'm recording this before the Liberal Party votes on the fate of Jane Philpott and Jody Wilson-Raybould.

00:00:17.240 Because if they are kicked out, don't be surprised if other liberals quit with them in solidarity.

00:00:23.140 I think Selena César Chavannes would. I think you might have some other Liberal MPs who've decided not to run again, so they don't have anything to lose.

00:00:32.000 And I think you might find some people who just say, you know what, we're going to lose this next election, and I want to be on the side of principle.

00:00:39.160 And you know what, even if they don't follow Jody Wilson-Raybould, love the door, do you think she's going to suddenly not be talkative?

00:00:46.700 Do you think she's going to be more sympathetic to them if she's fired than if she's in?

00:00:52.940 It's just a pickle, and what a pleasure to watch this kind of mutiny on the left.

00:00:56.920 We never see it on the left. They're so unified. It's the right that quarrels, so I'm having too much fun.

00:01:01.820 I hope you enjoy the conversation. I give you some facts and figures, quotes from some letters, and I interview my friend Andrew Lawton on the subject.

00:01:08.840 Hey, before I get to the good stuff, can you take a minute and help me out?

00:01:13.080 Could you go to therebel.media slash shows? Therebel.media slash shows.

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00:01:24.860 and it also lets you watch this show in video format.

00:01:28.220 And I don't know if you know this, but Sheila Gunn-Reed and David Menzies, they have shows also,

00:01:32.400 and you get access to all of that by being a premium subscriber, and you help us keep the lights on, so thank you for that.

00:01:37.300 Okay, without further ado, here's my comments on Jody Wilson-Raybould and the Liberal Party.

00:01:43.080 You're listening to a Rebel Media Podcast.

00:01:46.240 Tonight, Jody Wilson-Raybould dares Justin Trudeau to kick her out of the Liberal Caucus.

00:01:51.100 Who do you think is going to blink first?

00:01:52.860 It's April 2nd, and this is The Answer LeVance Show.

00:01:57.520 Why should others go to jail when you're a biggest carbon consumer I know?

00:02:01.280 There's 8,500 customers here, and you won't give them an answer.

00:02:05.040 The only thing I have to say to the government about why I publish it is because it's my bloody right to do so.

00:02:13.080 You know, the Liberals have been trying so hard to talk about other things for nearly two months now.

00:02:21.780 Anything other than the SNC-Lavalin scandal.

00:02:24.800 Even their awful decision to bring in a job-killing, price-hiking, poverty-creating carbon tax.

00:02:31.980 Well, it's fizzled as a channel changer in the media.

00:02:35.000 I mean, that's like fixing a headache by hitting your thumb with a hammer to distract.

00:02:42.100 It's not a good idea.

00:02:42.940 I think the carbon tax is nuts, and that most normal citizens don't believe.

00:02:47.560 Raising a tax will change the weather.

00:02:49.660 But when even that can't change the subject in the newspapers, you know you're in a pickle.

00:02:56.380 Liberal MPs haven't been helping either.

00:02:58.520 For the first time in years, they are bickering in public.

00:03:01.100 It's pretty amazing.

00:03:02.060 Sheila Copps, the former deputy prime minister under Jean Chrétien, has gone pretty nuts on Jody Wilson-Raybould in a series of increasingly extreme tweets.

00:03:14.320 One Liberal MP, a brave man named Rob Oliphant, told reporters that he is scared of Jody Wilson-Raybould.

00:03:22.940 Now, he said he was scared.

00:03:24.040 I think he needs maybe a safe space or one of those emotional support pigs that all the cool heiresses in Beverly Hills have now. 1.00

00:03:33.560 Here's Wayne Easter, a Liberal for life from Prince Edward Island.

00:03:37.420 He is angry and he's undisciplined.

00:03:41.000 The official message from the Liberals yesterday was supposed to be about carbon taxes.

00:03:45.000 Again, I think it's a terrible political strategy, terrible economic strategy.

00:03:48.580 But it was their media strategy when he's here to decide to give the media something else to talk about something more interesting instead.

00:03:56.000 But then to play these kind of games and almost entrapment to the clerk of the Privy Council?

00:04:02.980 I've got no respect for someone like that.

00:04:04.060 What about Ms. Philpott? 0.99

00:04:05.620 Did she know all this further information that came out?

00:04:08.960 Or was she used in the process like I feel I was used by Judy Wilson-Raybould in our caucus?

00:04:15.580 You sound pretty angry about it.

00:04:16.980 I am angry.

00:04:18.160 I am angry to think in this country, Canada, a Privy Councilor, the top political position in the country sitting around a cabinet table,

00:04:28.160 will actually take and tape a conversation, and in my listening to it, I felt she had to be reading from a script at times

00:04:40.100 to try and draw out, to make the clerk and the prime minister and cabinet colleagues and us that sit in caucus with her look bad. 0.70

00:04:52.340 Of course I'm angry.

00:04:54.580 Yeah, it's not going well in the media for the Liberals.

00:04:57.760 I know some pundits say that this is a hard scandal to understand, this whole SNC-Lavalin thing.

00:05:04.500 It's technical, legal.

00:05:06.860 Some people even say it's no big deal.

00:05:08.620 Any good prime minister, they say, would have intervened to save 9,000 jobs,

00:05:13.460 even though that figure has been utterly debunked, including by the company itself.

00:05:17.960 But the polls show it is definitely taking a bite, and it's no blip either.

00:05:23.060 It's no rogue poll.

00:05:24.540 Every single pollster now shows the Liberals are trailing.

00:05:28.720 And many, in fact, show that if an election were held today, the Conservatives would form a majority.

00:05:32.720 I think some people are following the nitty-gritty details closely.

00:05:36.800 I think the political class is.

00:05:38.360 I mean, it's the first time the mainstream media has looked with any sustained interest at a Trudeau scandal.

00:05:43.740 So for the first time in Trudeau's term, there is some real reporting with some real meat in it.

00:05:48.020 So there's the substance of the scandal.

00:05:51.020 And just putting it on the front page every day sustains it, gives it momentum.

00:05:55.240 And, of course, in real life, it has devastated the government.

00:05:58.080 Think about it.

00:05:58.880 Not only has Jody Wilson-Raybould resigned, but so do has Jane Philpott, widely regarded as Trudeau's most competent minister.

00:06:05.720 But, of course, Gerald Butts resigned in some sort of disgrace, but never really explained why he left.

00:06:10.640 Then there's a clerk of the Privy Council, the top bureaucrat in charge of carrying out the Prime Minister's will and the civil servants.

00:06:17.500 So, of course, it's a big issue.

00:06:19.600 I mean, you have some laughable in-the-tank partisans for Trudeau left in the press gallery,

00:06:25.200 especially at the CBC state broadcaster like this gal, Rosemary Barton. 0.95

00:06:30.400 But they're so comical and it's so obviously just partisan acting.

00:06:34.000 It really reminds me of Baghdad Bob, remember him?

00:06:37.040 Saddam Hussein's laughable propaganda minister who was on TV saying how Iraq was about to vanquish the U.S. military

00:06:44.020 when U.S. tanks were literally going street by street through Baghdad.

00:06:48.540 So it really is a scandal.

00:06:50.260 Trudeau and his staff were repeatedly pressuring prosecutors to drop criminal charges against their friends at SNC-Lavalin.

00:06:56.520 That's a huge moral scandal.

00:06:58.140 It goes to the foundations of our democracy and the rule of law.

00:07:01.500 It's a political scandal.

00:07:03.060 The PMO and Cabinet and civil service have all been decapitated.

00:07:07.460 Two top ministers, the Prime Minister's senior aide, the head of the civil service is gone.

00:07:11.720 And for the first time, the media are paying attention.

00:07:13.540 Better now, six months before the next election than six months after the next election.

00:07:18.100 But that Wayne Easter clip I showed you in the Rob Oliphant quote about him being scared and Sheila Goff's going mad,

00:07:25.340 I think that's got to break.

00:07:27.540 Because Jody Wilson-Raybould is quite clear.

00:07:29.600 She believes Justin Trudeau is unethical.

00:07:32.940 She said so in about five different ways.

00:07:36.100 And Jane Philpott was even clearer in her own way when she resigned. 0.88

00:07:39.840 She put up this detailed letter.

00:07:41.240 She said she just couldn't be part of a cabinet that was so unethical.

00:07:45.060 She was blunt.

00:07:46.080 And then Philpott went even further in an interview with McLean's magazine.

00:07:51.380 But why are both of Jody Wilson-Raybould and Jane Philpott running again in the next election as liberals?

00:08:00.900 How can they stay in a party led by someone they say is unethical?

00:08:04.680 This is what they said.

00:08:06.440 I mean quitting cabinet on principle is very bold.

00:08:08.540 And frankly you just don't see a lot of that anymore.

00:08:11.400 I think that's very responsible to them.

00:08:13.040 But doesn't that same responsibility apply to being in the caucus, to being a liberal MP, running with a liberal long sign, being loyal to the liberal party leader?

00:08:21.300 I don't quite get how you can square the two.

00:08:23.840 Other than what does it mean to be a liberal?

00:08:26.880 If it means believing in a certain set of ideas and a certain team, then it means you can be a liberal without having to bend the knee to a particular leader.

00:08:35.520 I think, I suppose it's a sign of respect frankly to everyone else in the party, to the party's beliefs, whatever they are at this moment, and the party's history, that you can say you're a great liberal and you're part of the party and you're part of a community and you stand for ideas even if you think a crook is running the show.

00:08:54.940 I think that's what it means.

00:08:56.240 I'm not sure if that's possible to do though.

00:08:57.900 But that's what it means, I think.

00:09:01.120 I think it's possible to do if you believe that Trudeau can be ejected, can be pressured into quitting or eventually be turfed out.

00:09:07.900 In fact, that's a longstanding political tradition, isn't it?

00:09:10.180 Ask Paul Martin, who stuck around under Jean Chrétien for a decade while scheming to get him out.

00:09:15.960 Now, just a quick update.

00:09:16.980 The reason things are rather agitated right now, or one of the reasons, is that Jody Wilson-Raybould was banned from testifying again before the House of Commons Justice Committee

00:09:26.400 after the Liberals on that committee voted against her testifying a second time.

00:09:31.220 So Jody Wilson-Raybould, who is a better chess player than I would have imagined she was,

00:09:35.660 well, she just submitted her remarks in writing, which were released.

00:09:40.260 So it didn't quite have the pop of her personal testimony, but it didn't have to since she filed pure dynamite,

00:09:47.280 including a recording she made of a phone call she had with Michael Wernig, the clerk of the Privy Council.

00:09:53.360 So it's a lengthy phone call. Obviously, I'm not going to play all of it, but here are a few parts of it.

00:09:58.100 So he's quite determined, quite firm, but he wants to know why the DPA route, which Parliament provided for, isn't being used.

00:10:13.300 And I think he's going to find a way to get it done one way or another.

00:10:17.560 So he's in that kind of mood.

00:10:21.980 He's asking if you can use all of the tools that you lawfully have at your disposal.

00:10:26.180 I am trying to protect the prime minister from political interference, or perceived or otherwise.

00:10:35.620 I'm going to have to report back on that before he may use it.

00:10:40.100 It's been a pretty firm frame of mind about this, though, so I'm a bit worried.

00:10:45.080 That is incredible for a few reasons.

00:10:49.400 It proves that Trudeau was sending his man, Michael Wernig, to badger her.

00:10:54.600 This was months after the decision was already made to prosecute.

00:10:59.160 Trudeau was still pressuring her to change her mind.

00:11:01.720 Wernig was blunt. Trudeau was in a foul mood.

00:11:05.900 And Jody Wilson-Raybould was adamant, too.

00:11:08.020 She wasn't going to change her mind.

00:11:10.120 And she actually warned Wernig that Trudeau could get into legal trouble for interfering.

00:11:14.760 And Wernig said he was going to report that back to the PM.

00:11:18.940 That's a hell of a thing.

00:11:20.640 And it proves there was pressure.

00:11:22.520 If you listen to the whole thing, well, obviously not going to play the whole thing.

00:11:25.240 It proves Wilson-Raybould repeatedly said she didn't like being pressured.

00:11:30.220 She warned against the pressure.

00:11:32.100 Now, to be sure, Jody Wilson-Raybould's own comments were self-serving.

00:11:34.800 She knew she was recording herself.

00:11:39.000 But so what?

00:11:39.480 It proves the point that Wernig surely would have denied, had it not been on tape,

00:11:43.680 that she repeatedly objected to the pressure, and pressure was repeatedly put on her,

00:11:48.620 and the PM was in a mood, and he was going to get this done one way or another.

00:11:53.740 In fact, Trudeau had specific...

00:11:55.800 Trudeau, when this whole thing broke in the media a few weeks ago,

00:11:58.720 Trudeau specifically said he lied.

00:12:01.780 He said that Jody Wilson-Raybould had never objected to any pressure.

00:12:08.760 I am both surprised and disappointed by her decision to step down.

00:12:14.880 In regards to the matter of SNC-Lavalin, let me be direct.

00:12:19.740 The government of Canada did its job, and to the clear public standards, expected of it.

00:12:27.520 If anyone felt differently, they had an obligation to raise that with me.

00:12:34.720 No one, including Jody, did that.

00:12:40.220 So he was lying.

00:12:41.980 In that 17-minute recording, she objects time and again to Trudeau's hand-picked messenger.

00:12:47.720 That's the power of the recording.

00:12:49.140 It proved what Jody Wilson-Raybould knew would be lied about later.

00:12:52.860 And indeed, it was lied about later, wasn't it?

00:12:54.740 Now, Jody Wilson-Raybould said in her written submissions to the Justice Committee

00:12:59.360 that recording someone like that is something she has never done before and has never done since.

00:13:06.400 And I actually believe her.

00:13:08.120 She said she recorded that one conversation

00:13:10.460 because she normally listens to calls like that on the speakerphone

00:13:13.520 with other staff who take notes.

00:13:15.460 So she has witnesses and notes, but this time she was alone and wanted to record it.

00:13:19.460 But let's be honest, it shows what it shows.

00:13:21.760 The PMO was furious with her and demanding she drop the charges against the crooked company.

00:13:28.720 I think that tape proves everything.

00:13:31.480 And look at this.

00:13:32.900 Jody Wilson-Raybould sent a letter to her Liberal colleagues this morning.

00:13:37.340 It said she loves being a Liberal and loves everything about the Liberals.

00:13:40.420 And she even reminds them that she has been confirmed as the local Liberal candidate in her Vancouver riding.

00:13:45.940 But look at this one comment in her letter.

00:13:47.320 Let me pull this one quote out.

00:13:48.340 Well, I am not the one who tried to interfere in sensitive proceedings.

00:13:52.600 I am not the one who made it public.

00:13:54.100 And I am not the one who publicly denied what happened.

00:13:56.960 Oh my gosh!

00:14:00.020 And don't get all dainty with me about the fact that she recorded Wernick.

00:14:04.240 Wernick is not a cabinet colleague.

00:14:06.260 Wernick was not her client.

00:14:07.360 Wernick was an errand boy sent to threaten her by Trudeau.

00:14:11.420 He was illegally interfering, by the way.

00:14:13.400 You saw how they all denied it after the fact.

00:14:15.480 The tape was necessary to prove the crime.

00:14:17.900 The crime being Section 139.2 in the Criminal Code.

00:14:20.840 Jody Wilson-Raybould was a whistleblower.

00:14:23.140 Of course she needed proof of the crime.

00:14:26.400 Well, that is not going over well with Liberals who put Trudeau first.

00:14:29.700 Here's Melanie Jolie, a much more submissive woman in cabinet, 0.96

00:14:33.400 who is shocked, just shocked, that a whistleblower blew the whistle.

00:14:38.760 I think that when it comes to the fact that you're tape recording the clerk of the private council without him knowing,

00:14:48.960 I think this is something that is fundamentally wrong.

00:14:52.720 Yeah, if only we can stop these whistleblowers.

00:14:56.640 That's the problem.

00:14:57.660 The whistleblowers.

00:14:58.940 People recording the crimes, not the prime minister and his staff who were actually obstructing justice,

00:15:04.320 trying to get the criminal charges against SNC-Lavalin drop.

00:15:07.200 No, no, no.

00:15:07.700 The problem is a woman who stood on ethical points to stop them. 1.00

00:15:11.280 Well, there were furious meetings today by Trudeau's submissive women like Jolie 1.00

00:15:17.940 and submissive men like Wayne Easter and Rob Olofent.

00:15:21.120 I say submissive, but look, they're just trying to save their own jobs as politicians, 0.99

00:15:25.220 and they're putting that ahead of the national interest, or even their party's integrity.

00:15:28.600 They just want to win.

00:15:29.740 It's a great job to be an MP.

00:15:33.140 Jody Wilson-Raybould, I think she actually was grossed out by the PM asking her to break the law.

00:15:38.260 Remember, they had 10 phone calls and 10 in-person meetings.

00:15:40.580 Remember this?

00:15:42.020 This is when Trudeau, the great white hope, gave Jody Wilson-Raybould his favor and appointed her.

00:15:48.820 I think she was at one point actually a believer in Trudeau,

00:15:53.000 that he believed what he meant about women and Aboriginal people.

00:15:56.280 I think she's being disillusioned hard, not just on those two matters,

00:15:59.880 but on the rule of law most of all.

00:16:03.080 The rest of the liberal caucus must be disillusioned too.

00:16:06.940 I mean, of course they are.

00:16:08.640 Every Trudeau fan is.

00:16:10.320 They see the truth of him.

00:16:11.440 Even the Trudeau lovers at McLean's magazine, they call him the imposter now.

00:16:16.780 Only the journalists that Trudeau literally pays, like Rosemary Barton and the CBC,

00:16:22.040 only they still carry his water, and it's just sort of prideful now.

00:16:26.200 So how will this all end?

00:16:28.160 Well, we'll find out pretty soon.

00:16:30.480 One thing's for sure, it's much more interesting than the latest liberal blather about global warming,

00:16:35.700 don't you think?

00:16:37.180 Stay with us.

00:16:37.880 We'll talk to Andrew Lawton about this next.

00:16:53.800 Welcome back.

00:16:54.600 Well, I should tell you, as we record this in the later part of the afternoon,

00:17:00.480 Jody Wilson-Raybould apparently is going to be the subject of a previously unscheduled liberal caucus meeting.

00:17:07.500 In other words, all the MPs are getting together just before 6 o'clock tonight to determine her fate.

00:17:13.880 So as we discuss this, but before this actually goes to air, her future is very much in jeopardy.

00:17:21.660 It may be resolved tonight.

00:17:23.880 But in the meantime, as this gripping drama unfolds, I'm joined by my old friend, Andrew Lawton.

00:17:30.840 He is the boss of AndrewLawton.ca, and he's a fellow with the True North Initiative.

00:17:35.440 Great to see you again, Andrew.

00:17:36.520 Thanks for being here.

00:17:37.860 Happy to.

00:17:38.420 Thanks for having me back.

00:17:39.400 Well, it's just so interesting to me.

00:17:41.280 I disagree with Jody Wilson-Raybould on ideological matters, but I am impressed with her deep commitment to the rule of law and her duties as an officer of the court.

00:17:53.080 I think it probably comes from being a prosecutor.

00:17:56.080 I mean, she, that's a tough job being a prosecutor. 0.93

00:17:58.660 It really makes you sensitive to following the rules and right and wrong.

00:18:02.520 I think she is the most idealistic attorney general we've had in a generation.

00:18:09.080 I'm not saying I agree with her ideology, but just about her ethics.

00:18:12.740 I give her a thumbs up.

00:18:14.880 I think you're very much correct there, Ezra.

00:18:17.780 Integrity and accountability, these are not supposed to be partisan values.

00:18:23.100 I mean, ideally, everyone in Parliament, whether a liberal, an NDP, a Bloc Québécois, or a conservative, would have a semblance of integrity.

00:18:31.320 And I think what Jody Wilson-Raybould has proven here is that that integrity that she carries and wields so easily is not a common commodity in the prime minister's office and in the upper ranks of the liberal party and the liberal government.

00:18:45.680 And ultimately, I think this meeting that you referenced a few moments ago is going to be the big determining factor in whether that integrity is shared by the majority or the minority of her colleagues in caucus.

00:18:57.920 Because if liberals are putting to her as the former attorney general, which is supposed to be a somewhat independent role, that she should have put party above country, well, that's a widespread lack of integrity right there. 0.82

00:19:10.740 And that really is the key question here.

00:19:13.120 I bet.

00:19:14.540 I mean, look, I don't know a lot of liberals.

00:19:16.600 They don't like me that much.

00:19:18.220 But I bet that most members of the liberal caucus, most MPs, don't like what happened.

00:19:24.880 But the test here is, will they publicly say that if it embarrasses the PM?

00:19:32.060 That's what's so unusual.

00:19:33.420 I mean, and let me say, on the other side of that, Jody Wilson-Raybould did not, quote, go public with this.

00:19:42.760 She was an internal dissident.

00:19:45.460 She held the line as best she could.

00:19:47.640 She fought from within.

00:19:48.680 And then she stayed in cabinet, as she told Parliament, to keep an eye on this file.

00:19:52.960 But she, and this morning, she tweeted out a statement that she had sent to her colleagues saying, I'm not the one who interfered with the prosecution.

00:20:03.440 I'm not the one who made it public.

00:20:05.780 And I'm not the one who covered it up.

00:20:07.780 So there's three parts there.

00:20:09.540 I mean, she's still really righteous about what she did.

00:20:12.620 But she's reminding the liberals she hasn't been the one running to the media. 0.86

00:20:17.360 It seems like she has because we're so gripped by it.

00:20:20.160 But it's true, Andrew, she kept quiet about this for months and months and months and quietly bit her tongue, I think.

00:20:30.000 Yeah, and I think it's a very legitimate question as to why she didn't step down from cabinet. 0.76

00:20:35.960 And her answer that she gave, I think it was before that parliamentary committee, that justice committee a couple of weeks ago, was a very good one,

00:20:42.520 which is that she felt that her remaining in that position was the safeguard of the rule of law.

00:20:48.240 And she basically felt that with how the prime minister's office was behaving, were she to step aside, then political interference would happen.

00:20:56.180 But she trusted herself to hold the line.

00:20:58.820 And I think that's very important.

00:21:00.400 Now, as for her place in caucus right now, I do think that the liberal caucus is justified in getting rid of her.

00:21:07.240 Quite frankly, she's taking a flamethrower to the liberal party and the liberal establishment, even though she's in the right.

00:21:13.420 But what I do question about Jody Wilson-Raybould, and I think this might be a little bit of a standoff between her and Justin Trudeau here,

00:21:23.180 is how she can, in good conscience, not just remain in the liberal caucus, but pledge to run as a liberal candidate in Vancouver-Granville in the election later this year.

00:21:32.620 And the reason why, as you're well aware, and probably a lot of your viewers are, the liberal brand has been the Justin Trudeau brand.

00:21:41.120 They were very, very vocal about this in the 2015 election.

00:21:44.680 They even had on a number of their billboards and signs Team Trudeau.

00:21:48.760 They were not distancing themselves from their leader, but embracing the leader.

00:21:52.140 So I do question how she is going to, with everything she has revealed of the last several months, go door-to-door in Vancouver and say, vote for Team Trudeau.

00:22:01.840 And obviously she won't be using that form of language, but in the Canadian political system, that's ultimately the pitch she's making to Canadians, 0.99

00:22:10.080 that they should send Justin Trudeau back, despite all of these ethical breaches that she's, and I'm very grateful for this, brought everyone's attention to.

00:22:18.420 Yeah, I've been trying to wrap my head around that too, because she said that she could no longer support him in cabinet.

00:22:25.620 Same with Jane Philpott, but, and that's a certain intensity of support, a certain solidarity, and a certain level of confidentiality and assistance.

00:22:34.960 But being in the caucus, just being a backbench MP, has all those same obligations and responsibilities and loyalties,

00:22:41.320 just maybe a little bit less, less large.

00:22:45.940 I mean, you still have caucus confidentiality, you still must support the PM as the PM.

00:22:52.460 So I found it a little unusual that both Philpott and Wilson Ray both have stayed in caucus,

00:22:59.360 but here's how I am guessing they justify it, Andrew, is that if you think, as you mentioned,

00:23:06.580 that the Liberal Party equals Justin Trudeau and Justin Trudeau equals the Liberal Party,

00:23:10.600 and Trudeau, by the way, probably thinks that, then yeah, it's, if you're not part of the Trudeau Party, get out.

00:23:17.240 But if you think that the Liberal Party is an enduring institution that is larger than any one person,

00:23:22.300 even larger than its leader at the time, if you think even further that maybe Trudeau's going to be given the boot,

00:23:28.120 or will resign in a matter of months, then maybe you do stick around.

00:23:32.100 I bet when Jody Wilson-Raybould knocks on doors in Vancouver Granville, I bet she's given a very warm response at the door.

00:23:40.140 So she's probably thinking, why should I give up my job, my connection with my community,

00:23:44.980 and my list of policies and values, just because I don't like the bum who's the CEO? 0.98

00:23:50.800 It's a tough one.

00:23:51.700 It's a tough one.

00:23:52.180 I know that by the time this video goes to air tonight, Andrew, the Liberals will have finished their meeting.

00:23:57.660 So we're talking right now, we don't know the answer.

00:24:00.460 Do you predict they're going to give her the boot? 0.98

00:24:03.720 It's tough to say.

00:24:05.040 I mean, one of the stories that will emerge if they do is whether they are running this type of operation

00:24:11.920 that was what the Liberals for several years accused Stephen Harper of running,

00:24:15.640 which was a caucus that didn't allow for dissent, didn't allow for disagreement.

00:24:18.900 So there are political repercussions should they give her the boot, 1.00

00:24:23.140 but also there are political repercussions in them having her sit around in caucus,

00:24:27.820 knowing that she has a significant voice and is using that voice to expose what the highest ranks of this government are doing. 0.91

00:24:35.940 One thing I will point out, though, is that there have been a lot of not conservative MPs,

00:24:40.460 but conservative supporters and even some very key organizers that are saying

00:24:44.480 the conservatives should welcome Jody Wilson-Raybould into their own caucus

00:24:48.280 and people saying that she should cross the floor.

00:24:51.780 And I think that's very problematic for a number of reasons,

00:24:54.920 the first of which she's not a liberal or she's not a conservative rather.

00:24:58.480 And despite her objections to Justin Trudeau's mishandling of the SNC-Lavalin file,

00:25:03.760 all of the issues that she believes on economics, on social justice, on the justice system more broadly,

00:25:09.500 all of these she has liberal views on.

00:25:11.860 And her disagreement with Trudeau, very critical disagreement, does not make her a conservative.

00:25:18.220 So if she is ejected from caucus, I don't think that the conservative should be rolling out the red carpet for her.

00:25:24.680 Maybe she could find a home in the NDP.

00:25:27.040 I'm not sure about that.

00:25:27.360 Or the Green Party.

00:25:28.500 What do you think of that?

00:25:29.260 I saw some musing about that.

00:25:31.420 She could instantly be a big fish in a small pond, and she's sort of greenish on some issues. 0.99

00:25:36.900 Yeah, but that's the key, is that she has to embody that party's values if she decides to go to another party. 0.93

00:25:44.580 And I don't like this idea of conservative partisans saying that they want to snag her just like it's Pokemon.

00:25:50.260 You've got to catch them all.

00:25:51.380 And I raised this issue when Leona Alislev crossed last September.

00:25:55.440 I said, OK, that's fine if she identifies as a conservative, but does she?

00:26:00.180 Is she actually a conservative?

00:26:01.640 So if Jody Wilson-Raybould is ejected from the Liberal caucus, it's going to be difficult for her to find a home, I think.

00:26:08.640 Yeah.

00:26:09.060 Well, you know, she could sit as an independent. 0.98

00:26:13.520 It would be very interesting if she started putting questions to the government in question period.

00:26:19.420 Independent MPs only get about one question every other week or so, so it's not a lot of talk time.

00:26:25.480 But look, people aren't going to stop suddenly caring about this issue.

00:26:28.680 In fact, if she's released from any more bonds of confidentiality and party solidarity, you know, she still is very careful about what she can say legally.

00:26:38.680 But look, Jody Wilson-Raybould, I don't think she's going to shut up.

00:26:41.700 And you know what?

00:26:42.280 Let me throw one more. 0.85

00:26:43.240 And again, we're speaking in this two or three hour period before the results are known on this emergency Liberal meeting.

00:26:49.360 But if she's kicked out, there may be one or two other Liberals who maybe weren't planning on running again anyways who join her. 0.97

00:26:58.520 For example, I'm no fan of that MP from the greater Toronto area named Selina Cesar Chavan.

00:27:06.420 I've called her a race baiter. 1.00

00:27:08.700 She's black herself, but she's very extreme in her racial identity politics. 0.98

00:27:12.780 She's quarreling with Trudeau right now.

00:27:15.820 She said she's not running again.

00:27:18.420 I bet if the Liberals kick out Jody Wilson-Raybould, I bet Selina Cesar Chavan joins her. 0.92

00:27:24.940 And I bet maybe two or three or four other disgruntled backbenchers who don't think they have a future anyways join her. 0.94

00:27:31.320 I think it could be a real snowball effect.

00:27:33.720 I think that's a real likelihood happening.

00:27:35.460 What do you think of that?

00:27:36.060 Well, Jane Philpott's going to be the critical one because right now, Jane Philpott's criticism of the government has been significant, but not significant enough to warrant her ejection from caucus under any normal circumstances.

00:27:49.420 She resigned from cabinet because she didn't feel it was appropriate or ethical to criticize the government as a cabinet minister.

00:27:55.660 Again, integrity in that decision.

00:27:57.700 But if the government takes a heavy hand to Jody Wilson-Raybould, safe to say Jane Philpott, who's already demonstrated she'll make a sacrifice to support her friend, will follow suit in some way on her own.

00:28:11.840 And then you start to see a more significant fracturing taking place.

00:28:15.320 So the Liberals can't just look at Jody Wilson-Raybould as a standalone.

00:28:20.160 They have to look three, four, five moves ahead in the game here.

00:28:23.460 Yeah.

00:28:23.840 Andrew, I have to tell you that, I mean, I've been out of partisan politics for more than a decade now.

00:28:30.920 But in my youth, my misspent youth, I was involved in the Reform Party that became known, the Canadian Alliance, and that later merged up with Conservatives.

00:28:40.040 And one of the things that I know was always on the mind of Conservatives, especially as the party tried to reunify, you know, unite the right.

00:28:49.760 The Liberals were so good at having a public face of unity.

00:28:54.540 If they had quarrels, they kept it inside.

00:28:57.720 And it was Conservatives, the Tory disease, the conservative disease was bickering in public.

00:29:03.220 And that certainly hurt the Reform Party for a while, too.

00:29:06.720 It is so unusual to me to see Liberal MPs kvetching and complaining and squabbling and quarreling in public.

00:29:16.600 And I think that's part of the reason the Liberals are falling in the polls.

00:29:20.200 It's not just the scandal.

00:29:22.060 I think voters say if you can't even govern your own party, you surely can't govern the country.

00:29:27.640 I think the very divisiveness here is also a reason that the Liberals are sinking.

00:29:32.980 What do you think of that?

00:29:33.740 I think that's hugely important.

00:29:36.740 And remember, they had, regardless of what you and me and a lot of people watching thought about Justin Trudeau, a lot of the Liberals had consumed the Kool-Aid on him.

00:29:46.340 And they thought he was the guy.

00:29:47.680 And there was an immense amount of caucus unity and party unity behind Justin Trudeau.

00:29:52.260 And I think that we're starting to see openly for the first time that that coalescing, if you will, was not as ironclad as it once looked.

00:30:02.040 And conservatives, again, conservatism is an ideology built on individualism.

00:30:06.580 And liberalism and progressivism is built on groupthink and collectivism.

00:30:10.900 So it stands to reason that their group has basically the same number of voices as one individual conservative, because that's the way they structure their entire worldview.

00:30:22.760 But we're starting to see that people are only willing to take that so far.

00:30:26.740 Well, listen, I appreciate you joining us.

00:30:29.360 And this story is certainly not going away.

00:30:32.240 I wonder, let me ask you one last question, because I compare the scandal here to what I think was a fake news scandal of Mike Duffy's expenses in the last year or two of Stephen Harper's administration.

00:30:47.120 And here's the difference here.

00:30:48.880 Here you've already lost two top cabinet members, the prime minister's personal secretary and longtime friend, the head of the Privy Council, and we're not even done yet.

00:31:00.300 Whereas Mike Duffy, he allegedly submitted some improper expenses that Harper's chief of staff said, I'll just pay myself.

00:31:09.980 It's no big deal.

00:31:10.620 So the scandal was a conservative actually paying money back to the taxpayer when maybe he ought not to have done so.

00:31:18.700 The RCMP laid charges.

00:31:20.800 There was a huge lengthy trial.

00:31:24.060 And Duffy was acquitted on all counts.

00:31:26.020 But it turned into a basically an 18-month saga that I think really helped sink Harper.

00:31:32.760 Let me ask you the essential question.

00:31:36.000 Do you think the RCMP will lay charges under Section 139 or other sections of the criminal code, obstruction of justice, interference with the prosecution?

00:31:46.360 I'm not qualified to answer that question.

00:31:48.660 But what I will say is that we need to look at the information that's plain as day in front of us.

00:31:54.100 And that is that there was pressure put.

00:31:56.340 At the very least, the evidence itself shows us from Michael Wernick.

00:32:00.120 And I think that it's important to look at the possibilities and eventualities.

00:32:04.440 But we have enough here and now that Canadians, in a more political sense, can draw their own conclusion.

00:32:09.880 I'll leave the others to people that are better qualified to weigh in on that.

00:32:13.260 Fair enough.

00:32:13.620 Well, Andrew, it's great to see you.

00:32:14.840 And you certainly are qualified to give us your political point of view.

00:32:17.600 You're one of the savviest pundits around.

00:32:19.720 And you're one of the pundits on our side of the aisle who has interviewed both Stephen Harper and Justin Trudeau.

00:32:28.080 So, you know, both sides of the story.

00:32:29.940 Great to see you again, my friend.

00:32:31.460 Thank you, sir.

00:32:32.080 All right.

00:32:32.440 There you have it.

00:32:32.960 Andrew Lawton, the big boss, the head cheese of andrewlawton.ca.

00:32:37.560 And he's also a fellow with the true north.

00:32:40.120 Stay with us.

00:32:40.640 More ahead on The Rebel.

00:32:53.260 Hey, welcome back on my monologue yesterday about Trudeau's carbon tax.

00:32:56.120 Sheldon writes,

00:32:56.840 Isn't it funny that on the same day Trudeau implements his carbon tax, the CBC is spewing its propaganda that Canada is actually warming twice as fast as the rest of the world.

00:33:08.480 Yes, I saw that story in the CBC.

00:33:10.680 And there's a bunch of Trudeau journalists, Justin Journos, who are repeating similar lines.

00:33:15.760 It's just all of a sudden all these global warming stories just bloomed as if from nowhere.

00:33:20.400 Now, we know from the Jody Wilson-Raybould lab scam matter that, of course, the liberals put a lot of value in placing op-eds where they want them.

00:33:28.540 I think I'll do maybe my monologue tomorrow on how badly behaved the CBC has been.

00:33:33.140 But yes, I noticed that, Sheldon.

00:33:36.060 Herald writes,

00:33:37.480 As we raise some good points, what about pets?

00:33:40.200 They exhale CO2, so they're presumably killing the planet.

00:33:42.840 If you believe this CO2 is pollution spin, where is the liberal pet tax to change people's behavior and stop owning pets?

00:33:50.020 Well, Herald is much more than just pets.

00:33:52.040 Of course, livestock, which I wouldn't really categorize as pets.

00:33:54.820 I mean, any mammal at all.

00:33:56.840 Cows, certainly, they don't just exhale CO2. 0.61

00:33:59.220 They fart and they belch.

00:34:01.840 It's actually, with cows, it's the burping more than the farting.

00:34:05.520 I'm an expert in burping and farting, as you can tell just by looking at me.

00:34:09.940 But, yeah, cows burp a lot because, you know, they're chewing up the stuff and whatever.

00:34:16.780 So that's methane, which is a far more potent global warming gas than CO2.

00:34:23.480 It's the methane.

00:34:26.940 And that's the thing.

00:34:28.120 It's so ridiculous to say these naturally occurring gases are what's causing the globe to warm,

00:34:36.280 as it's been warming since we're emerging from the ice age 10,000 years ago.

00:34:39.860 And it's just a laugh to think that paying a tax will stop it from warming.

00:34:43.040 It's just a laugh.

00:34:45.120 On my interview with Joel Pollack, Paul writes,

00:34:48.860 Grabby Joe and Crazy Sanders are the frontrunners.

00:34:51.580 Of course, this shows the complete lack of leadership in the Democrat Party.

00:34:55.040 Other than those two, they have that fake native and that fake Latino. 1.00

00:34:58.680 You're talking about Elizabeth Warren, who claims to be Indian,

00:35:02.140 even though she's only one 1024th Aboriginal.

00:35:06.440 And Beto O'Rourke, who, of course, is an Irishman who just goes with a Spanish nickname.

00:35:13.720 We'll see.

00:35:14.560 I mean, it's so early to say, and fundraising is one measure.

00:35:19.220 But remember, let me cast your mind back three years.

00:35:23.500 Jeb Bush had raised so much money.

00:35:27.260 I'm going from memory.

00:35:28.560 I'm going to say he raised 100 million bucks.

00:35:30.720 Maybe it wasn't quite that much.

00:35:32.320 And he got so few votes.

00:35:34.500 No one cared.

00:35:35.080 All the party insiders liked him.

00:35:36.820 He had all the dough.

00:35:37.580 He had all the famous last name, et cetera.

00:35:40.440 No one liked him.

00:35:41.520 They went for Trump, who had more flavor.

00:35:44.080 What's going to happen in the Dems?

00:35:45.220 I truly don't know.

00:35:46.140 I find it fascinating.

00:35:47.540 And I can have a detachment to it because, obviously, I'm not a Democrat,

00:35:51.060 so I can enjoy it more as a spectator than the Republicans for whom I would be rooting.

00:35:56.800 I don't know who's going to win.

00:35:58.680 I have a tough time seeing them nominating Bernie or Joe Biden because they seem old.

00:36:07.320 I've got nothing against old people.

00:36:08.680 It's just generally you nominate someone a little younger.

00:36:11.140 Trump is in his early 70s, but he feels so young and vigorous.

00:36:15.520 Guy never takes a day off.

00:36:16.960 I mean, sure, he goes golfing a bit, but he's not like Trudeau taking 60 personal days a year

00:36:21.800 and maybe only working four hours a day.

00:36:25.040 I don't know.

00:36:25.820 It'll be interesting to see.

00:36:27.220 Or do they go for some rebels, some radical activists?

00:36:31.520 I mean, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is not going to run for president this cycle. 1.00

00:36:36.660 I bet she will the one after, but someone like her seems to get all the Twitter energy, 0.67

00:36:41.780 but that's different than having an organization on the ground.

00:36:45.100 Let me just sum up by saying it's going to be a very interesting presidential nomination.

00:36:49.640 I look forward to it very much, and I bet Donald Trump will too.

00:36:53.480 I think he's just going to have so much fun on Twitter, don't you think?

00:36:56.260 He's going to come up with so many nicknames, creepy Uncle Joe Biden.

00:37:00.000 I don't really know if he's got a nickname for Beto O'Rourke yet, but he calls Elizabeth Warren Pocahontas.

00:37:07.220 There's so much fun we're going to have, and we'll do our best to give you commentary along the way.

00:37:11.900 Well, folks, that's our show for today.

00:37:13.500 I remind you that I'm taping this about an hour and a half or so,

00:37:17.820 maybe just a little bit earlier than that, before we go to air.

00:37:20.540 So we still don't know the results, a couple hours before we go to air,

00:37:23.900 we don't know the results of the Liberal caucus meeting on Jody Wilson-Raybould or Jane Philpott.

00:37:30.520 So my conversation with Andrew Lawton was done before we had the results.

00:37:34.520 So forgive me if we missed the news that broke tonight.

00:37:38.360 We'll give you an update tomorrow.

00:37:39.660 Either way, until next time, on behalf of all of us here at Rebel World Headquarters,

00:37:43.060 to you at home, good night, and keep fighting for freedom.

00:37:50.540 We'll be right back.

Rebel News Podcast - April 03, 2019

Jody Wilson-Raybould vs. Justin Trudeau： How will this end？

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