Rebel News Podcast - SHEILA GUNN REID ｜ Acute care manager in Alberta speaks out against vaccine passports, pandemic response

00:00:00.000 Oh hey Rebels, it's me Sheila Gunn-Reed and you're listening to a free audio only recording

00:00:04.540 of my weekly Wednesday night show The Gun Show, however this is the internet so you

00:00:08.340 can watch or listen whenever you feel like.

00:00:11.180 Now tonight my guest is somebody that you absolutely need to hear from.

00:00:18.500 Her name is Debbie Carrot.

00:00:20.720 You might recognize the last name because she is the wife of United We Roll founder

00:00:27.340 Glenn Carrot who's also running to be the mayor in Innisfail, Alberta.

00:00:32.160 She works as a manager for Alberta Health Services and she's joining me today to explain to me

00:00:40.600 what prompted her to write a letter to her superiors opposing the vaccine mandate for

00:00:48.920 Alberta Health Services workers but also in her letter she broke down the failings of

00:00:57.180 the pandemic response by Alberta Health Services and she might know a thing or two about this

00:01:05.140 as an ICU manager but also as a former paramedic.

00:01:10.100 Now if you like listening to the show then I promise you're going to love watching it

00:01:13.380 but in order to watch you need to be a subscriber to Rebel News Plus.

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00:01:46.520 Just go to rebelnewsplus.com to become a member today and now please enjoy this very important free audio only version of my show.

00:02:01.400 You're listening to a Rebel News Podcast.

00:02:04.060 An Alberta Health Services manager puts her career on the line to tell us why she opposes forced vaccinations

00:02:20.220 for people who work within our health care system.

00:02:24.420 I'm Sheila Gunn-Reed and you're watching The Gunn Show.

00:02:34.060 You are about to meet one very brave woman who might lose her job just to tell you the truth about what she sees

00:02:52.960 are problems within the health care system.

00:02:56.460 Problems regarding capacity issues, government mismanagement, and forced inoculations.

00:03:03.080 She is a manager in health care who started off her career as a paramedic.

00:03:09.080 Actually, she is so credentialed that she forgot to mention some of them in our interview.

00:03:15.620 Besides being a former paramedic, a registered nurse, and intensive care manager,

00:03:21.680 she also has an advanced nursing certificate in leadership and health system transformation

00:03:28.680 and innovations for teaching and learning.

00:03:32.060 Her name is Debbie Carrot and she works at the Red Deer Hospital.

00:03:38.060 And her personal integrity has led her to decide enough is enough.

00:03:43.940 This is her hill to die on.

00:03:46.440 If it means destroying the career that she loves and that she's worked so hard for to defend human rights,

00:03:52.940 she's going to do it and she won't be silent.

00:03:55.680 Friends, this is a very long interview, but every single bit of it is important.

00:03:59.760 And I want to tell you before we get started that we at Rebel News will do everything we can

00:04:07.880 to support Debbie legally in her fight against forced vaccinations for herself,

00:04:13.900 but also for her fellow health care workers.

00:04:17.820 You can support our fight at fightvaccinepassports.com.

00:04:22.240 Unions have abandoned these people, but we are here to help, all of us together.

00:04:27.960 Okay, friends, settle in.

00:04:30.100 Take a listen.

00:04:30.660 Joining me now from her home in Innisfail is Debbie Carrot.

00:04:49.000 Debbie, let's get this out of the way right away. 0.94

00:04:50.940 You are Glenn Carrot's wife.

00:04:52.880 So I am fighting government tyranny, fighting the lockdown, standing up for the rights of Albertans.

00:04:59.220 That's sort of the family business for you.

00:05:02.400 You know, it is.

00:05:04.200 And I wish that I could have done more and be more vocal up until this point,

00:05:07.840 but I felt I was in a difficult position at work.

00:05:11.640 But with the most recent policy, I'm no longer holding my thoughts and my views,

00:05:18.380 and I'm joining Glenn.

00:05:20.520 So just to be completely transparent, I've fully supported Glenn through everything that he's done so far.

00:05:27.140 Sure, you know, and we all have our issues, right?

00:05:29.160 Glenn's was oil and gas.

00:05:30.540 Glenn's was the lockdown.

00:05:31.520 Now you are standing up for the rights of health care workers.

00:05:34.300 Now, you're not just some, you know, and not to say that there's anything wrong with being a nurse

00:05:42.980 or being someone who works in custodial in the hospital, but you have a, like your entire career is in health care.

00:05:50.320 Give us a, I mean, I read your sort of a synopsis of your CV,

00:05:55.220 but give us a brief rundown of how long you've been in health care and the different positions that you've held.

00:06:02.860 Sure.

00:06:03.740 I've been health care minded my entire life.

00:06:06.480 When I was five years old, I decided I wanted to be a needle nurse.

00:06:10.140 I'm not sure what a needle nurse is, but that's what I wanted to be.

00:06:13.660 So throughout my entire education through grade school, I knew I wanted to be a medical professional.

00:06:21.460 I narrowed that down when I was in grade nine to wanting to be a paramedic.

00:06:25.020 So that's what I did when I graduated from high school is there's different levels in EMS in the province.

00:06:31.840 When I started, there was two levels.

00:06:34.000 So there was an EMT and a paramedic, which is now called a primary care paramedic and an advanced care paramedic.

00:06:39.760 We now have an extra level, which is called an EMR, which didn't exist when I started.

00:06:45.120 So I was an EMT for seven years.

00:06:47.640 I've worked in various areas in our province, Northern Alberta mostly.

00:06:52.420 And then I returned to school to become a paramedic, which I also worked for many years in and was registered in.

00:07:00.740 Loved my career.

00:07:02.520 I'm very proud to be a paramedic.

00:07:04.300 The time came when I felt like I needed to do something different for many reasons.

00:07:09.980 And so I went back to school to become a registered nurse.

00:07:13.800 And so I have my Bachelor of Science in Nursing.

00:07:16.900 And I've been a registered nurse for since 2011.

00:07:21.240 I graduated December 2011.

00:07:23.680 I've worked in the emergency department in the ICU.

00:07:26.660 And I've been in a unit manager position for over four years now.

00:07:32.300 So you are one of those ICU nurses that Jason Kenney tells me is currently overwhelmed.

00:07:43.640 That prompts a question for me.

00:07:45.940 What was it like working in the ICU before the pandemic?

00:07:50.440 Was it always sort of a state of rationed care in there?

00:07:53.900 Yeah, yeah.

00:07:54.960 So the ICU, I mean, there's certainly peaks and valleys of when we have more patients and when we don't have as many patients.

00:08:02.860 There seems to be themes on what types of patients we get.

00:08:06.380 I don't know how that happens, but it does.

00:08:10.240 So I worked in Red Deer Hospital.

00:08:12.040 Red Deer Hospital has been overcapacity for at least 10 years.

00:08:16.020 Every single day, they announce overcapacity.

00:08:18.020 So our capacity issues are not new.

00:08:21.420 COVID is certainly adding to it.

00:08:24.160 I want to make it very clear that I wholeheartedly know that COVID is a very serious condition for some people.

00:08:32.320 I know that some people become very sick from it.

00:08:34.540 I know that there are some longstanding issues that occur afterwards, and I know some people die from it.

00:08:39.600 I also know other things that are being shared that I don't feel are true and that are very concerning.

00:08:46.320 So in the ICU, yes, I worked there when we were having H1N1-ish people with H1N1 influenza, where you're wearing N95 masks, and it's certainly an infectious risk.

00:09:02.180 It's an intensive care unit.

00:09:05.420 People are very sick.

00:09:07.420 Now, what is the policy that came down from Alberta Health Services that prompted you to say,

00:09:13.400 OK, I have to come forward.

00:09:16.920 I have to put a name to a face to the fight here.

00:09:19.360 What's that policy?

00:09:20.180 So that policy is when they mandated the vaccine for all health care workers, for all AHS employees, regardless if you work in a hospital or you even work with the public.

00:09:32.440 Every single person they have decided needs to have this vaccine, which is the only vaccine that you have to have to work in the hospital is rubella.

00:09:44.340 They recommend many other vaccines, and I have been vaccinated.

00:09:49.580 I've been vaccinated for everything on their list, influenza, hep B, you know, everything up until this.

00:09:57.480 This vaccine will not go into my body.

00:09:59.180 And I am, well, I'm angry that they think they can make decisions for health care workers, for pregnant health care workers or pregnant Alberta Health Services employees, breastfeeding Alberta Health Services employees.

00:10:15.420 It blows my mind.

00:10:18.220 And up until the point that I received that email, I had said, no, they can't do that.

00:10:23.740 They won't do that.

00:10:24.660 And then I got an email.

00:10:26.240 And also, to be very clear, I got that email at the same time every other person who works for Alberta Health Services got it.

00:10:32.700 So as a unit manager, I had no support.

00:10:36.380 I had no heads up.

00:10:37.800 I got the email.

00:10:38.860 And then I had staff members who had a lot of questions and concerns.

00:10:44.460 I reached out to our human relation department.

00:10:48.440 I reached out to hire people above me.

00:10:52.980 And I said, what is it that I'm supposed to be saying to people who have these concerns?

00:11:00.100 I told them what I was telling them, that they should go to their unions, that they should write letters, that they should express their concerns.

00:11:08.140 And the response I got was that, yes, you can tell them that.

00:11:13.220 We have nothing further for you.

00:11:14.820 You know, what I'm hearing from healthcare workers, and the union actually released a statement, the public union here in Alberta, they said, no, we're fine with this.

00:11:25.760 So they're siding with the employer over the dues-paying union members.

00:11:29.860 And I've got my own issues with that.

00:11:31.620 But, you know, usually the union stands up for the worker, at least that's what they tell me, not so in this case.

00:11:40.820 And I'm old enough to remember when the union stood up for the rights of healthcare workers to not be mandated to take the influenza vaccine.

00:11:50.500 And yet they are somehow just noticeably absent, or in this case, siding with the employer when it comes to the COVID vaccine, which is a lot more experimental than the yearly influenza vaccine.

00:12:03.660 And I was, when I saw the email, I had a suspicion that the unions must be agreeing, because the unions do control very much of what AHS does for their staff members.

00:12:19.100 I can't put a disciplinary letter or a letter of warning into a staff member's file without it being reaped, particularly from Yuna. 0.98

00:12:27.640 So I, and when I said to my staff members who are coming to me with concerns, go to your union, I was like, oh, good.

00:12:37.020 Because, you know, I've, I've been, I've had concerns with the union when I feel that there's staff members who are not safe to practice.

00:12:44.120 I'm grieved, I'm grieved when there's evidence that whatever discipline is coming forward is warranted, and it's grieved, and it's expensive, and it's frustrating.

00:12:54.320 Um, so I thought that that was good advice for the staff members, but apparently it's not, because their unions are not standing up for them, and I do not understand why.

00:13:06.620 Now, the unions aren't standing up for them, but you are.

00:13:10.700 You fired off a lengthy, well-written letter to your higher-ups in the public health supply chain.

00:13:19.500 Let us know what that was all about.

00:13:20.800 Um, I, I'm, I'm at a point where I feel like, I, it's, I don't feel like this is my choice any longer to advocate, um, against this mandate.

00:13:31.200 I feel like it's the only thing that I can do, and it's right.

00:13:34.800 I am not fearful of losing my job, um, because I feel like I don't have a choice.

00:13:40.860 This is, this is the only thing that I can do, um, ethically, morally, um, to follow my values.

00:13:47.300 This is so wrong that, um, I, I'm not quitting my job right now.

00:13:54.860 There's been days, certainly, when I want to.

00:13:57.620 I will see how this goes, but quite honestly, I'm, I don't want to work for AHS.

00:14:03.020 I don't want to work for an organization that I no longer trust or respect.

00:14:06.660 And again, to make it very clear, right up until the day I got that email, I see things from multiple sides.

00:14:14.000 So I see AHS's point of view.

00:14:16.180 I see the government's point of view.

00:14:17.620 I see our taxpayer dollars.

00:14:19.640 I advocate for my staff members for their, um, well-being and their safety and their mental health and, and what their work conditions are like.

00:14:26.400 Um, my job is all-encompassing for needing to look at every area like that.

00:14:31.980 And now I don't feel like that any longer.

00:14:35.260 Our taxpayer dollars are wasted.

00:14:37.780 I, I see many, many systematic issues, which I put in my letter.

00:14:42.960 Um, of course, when I got the response from AHS that none of that was addressed, um, nor is my concerns when I'm sending it up to, um, senior leaders right now for the issues that are going on.

00:14:55.400 That they are still doing nothing about all they're saying is COVID is overwhelming our system.

00:15:00.580 Um, so right now I am advocating for, um, staff members.

00:15:05.900 I'm advocating for the safety and health of the people in our province, because I am not fearful of COVID.

00:15:13.180 I am fearful for our healthcare system.

00:15:16.440 Now let's touch on some of the things that you addressed in your letter.

00:15:19.380 Um, maybe if we could pull out three key points.

00:15:22.040 I know one of the things that you talked about in there was that, you know, the sort of the ethics that you have to operate under and that have guided your career in healthcare.

00:15:32.440 So tell us a little bit about the nuts and bolts of your concerns in that letter.

00:15:38.060 Sure.

00:15:38.660 So the, the ethics part, um, you know, our job is to take care of people who come into the hospital and people who need us.

00:15:46.320 And we take care of all people, um, regardless of your choices that you've made in your life.

00:15:52.280 So there are people who make healthy choices and they come to the hospital and there's some people who have made some unhealthy choices and come to the hospital.

00:15:59.340 Um, my job as a healthcare professional is to take care of you with compassion and with empathy and with respect and with safety, um, regardless of why you're there.

00:16:10.200 And if you listen to people's life stories, which is when I worked in the ICU, it was amazing to me to have conversations when we extubated people.

00:16:20.360 So they were able to talk to us and find out their story on how they got to where they are.

00:16:25.640 So people who have, um, addiction issues, it's not that they had this fantastic life.

00:16:32.560 I mean, there are people who had a great life and they made a decision to try an illicit drug and then started down a different pathway, but they've got sad stories.

00:16:41.080 They've got, um, childhood things that have happened to them that make me think, well, if that happened to me, I may choose to take illicit drugs.

00:16:50.360 And so we need to think about that.

00:16:53.700 We need to think of our patients of the story and their journey and where they got to and help them wherever they are.

00:16:59.840 And that's not what we're doing right now.

00:17:02.140 Um, right now we're judging people.

00:17:04.720 So as, uh, our, the Canadian Nurses Association code of ethics, we need to promote and respect informed decision-making, which is we're not allowing people to do right now.

00:17:15.220 Um, when we're mandating a vaccine, um, I won't get into all of the reasons why I don't think this vaccine is necessary or should be forced upon people.

00:17:25.400 Um, but if we're, we're not promoting, respecting informed decision-making, we do that for every single patient who comes into the hospital, but we're not doing that for the people who work for Alberta health services.

00:17:35.700 It makes no sense to me whatsoever.

00:17:38.500 Um, we need to maintain privacy and confidentiality.

00:17:42.740 Um, is my privacy and confidentiality assured when I go to a restaurant and they ask for my vaccine passport?

00:17:49.360 It's none of your business, my personal information.

00:17:52.620 Um, we are, we are sharing information, tidbits, tidbits of information with the entire world.

00:18:01.120 And then the entire world has their opinion and they start judging people and they're mistreating people.

00:18:06.160 And we have division.

00:18:08.020 Um, there's lots of catchphrases like I trust the science and, um, uh, the science is clear and I'm listening to the experts.

00:18:17.860 Yes. Okay. Well, it's what they're doing right now is a marketing ploy.

00:18:21.860 So if you look at your shampoo bottle and it says, uh, rated the best shampoo.

00:18:26.880 Okay. Oh, good. This is rated the best shampoo. I'm going to choose this one.

00:18:30.540 Well, there's lots it's marketing. Who was it rated by and rated the best shampoo for what?

00:18:36.560 So that's what we're doing with COVID right now is people are, I'm listening to the experts.

00:18:41.320 Okay. Well, I'm listening to the experts as well.

00:18:43.980 And I feel like I'm listening to an expert right now, by the way.

00:18:47.860 I just, you know, people are just taking these stances and they're firm and hard and they don't

00:18:54.060 understand that we've had infectious diseases in our society forever, forever. But what we're not

00:19:02.620 doing is sharing with you all the stats. Like, do you know how many people have Staphylococcus aureus

00:19:08.820 right now? No, you don't. Nor does anybody else in the world because we do not test millions of people

00:19:15.640 over and over again, and then tell you about it. Right. Um, Staph A infections, very dangerous,

00:19:21.740 you know, um, necrotizing fasciitis. It kills people. You can lose limbs. There's lots of bad

00:19:27.220 things out there. C diff, um, even norovirus, but we don't, you know what, when people are at home

00:19:32.780 and they're vomiting, they have diarrhea for 24 to 48 hours. We're not saying get to a testing center

00:19:38.020 right away and let's see what that is. So people are in a heightened state for, for things that

00:19:45.360 we shouldn't be telling, you know what, if it's a problem for hospitals, then tell us the hospital

00:19:51.120 numbers. Um, if it's a problem in ICUs, then, you know, tell us that, but you need to tell us all of

00:19:56.200 the details and where are they getting these numbers from? Because I have to fill out a report. Um,

00:20:02.380 it's, it's gone, you know, every day to weekly, we're back to every day. It's called a hotspot

00:20:07.300 report where I'm reporting the number of people who are in the hospital, um, who have tested positive

00:20:13.540 for COVID. Um, the number of new people since I last reported and the number of staff members

00:20:19.760 that that is the information. So I'm telling you how many people have tested positive for COVID in

00:20:25.740 the hospital. Is this the stats they're using? Because I will tell you, people are admitted into the

00:20:31.120 hospitals for reasons other than COVID, even though they tested positive. So a woman can go 1.00

00:20:36.820 into labor, have signs and symptoms of COVID test positive. We don't know how long she's been

00:20:42.400 positive because you can test positive for a long time after you have been infectious. And that number

00:20:48.600 would go on the report. And she's not in hospital for COVID. She's in hospital for labor for baby.

00:20:54.260 That's right. She's going to have her baby, whether she's COVID positive or not hospital and have her

00:21:00.000 baby. We're seeing people who have heart attacks come to the hospital. Sign and symptom of a heart

00:21:05.280 attack is shortness of breath. Shortness of breath is on the symptom list to get tested for COVID. You

00:21:10.980 test positive for COVID. Now you're in the hospital because you had a heart attack, but here, here,

00:21:17.080 this is a statistic. People who are terminal with cancer test positive for COVID. They may die.

00:21:24.180 Did they die because they had COVID? Did it contribute? Possibly. They have terminal cancer.

00:21:31.400 They were going to die. I'm not trying to be insensitive. I'm very compassionate for families.

00:21:36.860 I'm very passionate about end of life care, which is also part of why I'm advocating right now,

00:21:43.020 which I'll get to in a minute. But this is what we're seeing. We're seeing people with urinary

00:21:48.180 tract infections who come in, who have tested positive for COVID. They are in the hospital

00:21:53.880 because they are on a urinary tract infection, meeting IV antibiotics. They are not in the

00:21:59.560 hospital because of COVID. So I don't know where they're getting their numbers from. I can't say

00:22:05.160 they're getting it from the reports I'm making. All I know is that I'm reporting it and I'm reporting

00:22:09.880 something without the necessary details where I'm not reporting whether somebody's being vaccinated or not

00:22:15.980 for COVID. They're telling us about people who are dying. So if somebody has tested positive for

00:22:24.880 COVID, dies of a stroke, is this considered part of their death toll for COVID? And I haven't heard

00:22:34.080 this anywhere. They're not sharing this information. They're not sharing the details, nor do I necessarily

00:22:39.280 think they should for who's in the ICU and who's dying for what comorbidities. Do they have end-stage

00:22:45.320 organ disease? Because people with end-stage means you're going to die from that. So

00:22:53.060 you know, we have outbreaks. We have outbreaks. We have an outbreak in a hospice and people die.

00:22:59.320 The criteria to get into the hospice is that you were expected to die. So we're putting fear into

00:23:06.380 people, which is it's so unhealthy. We're not meant to be in this heightened state of fear.

00:23:11.720 You know, a lot of people have heard of fight or flight. It's our body's mechanism to get through

00:23:19.720 short time periods. We're putting people in fight or flight for months and months. It's making us

00:23:25.860 unhealthy. So it's just, it's awful. When I was talking about how passionate I am about end-of-life

00:23:34.300 care, it's end-of-life care, but it's also care for people who are in the hospital. We're limiting

00:23:39.540 who can see their loved ones in the hospital. Yep. And I am, I, you know, when that first started,

00:23:47.900 I'm like, okay, we're trying to keep less people out of the facility. It's been 19 months. And, and I,

00:23:54.740 we have patients who come into our hospital and they want to die because they are so lonely and they have

00:24:00.940 been isolated. And then we're not letting people in. And if you're, um, they're considering end-of-life,

00:24:07.240 if you, if we're expecting you to live four to the six months or four to six weeks, um, which is also

00:24:13.100 a weird range. I don't know why the four is in there. Why aren't you just saying less than six

00:24:17.320 weeks? But so we do our best for that. And then we still limit how many people can come in. But up

00:24:22.960 until that point, um, depending on what facility you were at determines how many people can come in

00:24:28.880 and see you. So, um, at our facility, we have been able to keep the two designated visitors,

00:24:35.940 um, in to see people. Well, if you have three children, how are you determining which, which

00:24:42.120 children, what is it, your top two favorites? And I know I'm being facetious, but it's true.

00:24:47.240 You know, like if Glenn were in the hospital, he's got me and he's got two daughters. So who,

00:24:53.560 who gets to come in and see Glenn? You know, I think it's terrible. Um, people are dying

00:24:59.200 in the hospital right now. And if their, um, loved one has, if they're unvaccinated and they've been

00:25:08.360 in close contact, then they're not automatically allowed to come in and see them. Or if they've

00:25:12.760 got signs and symptoms, their loved one is dying in the hospital and their spouse, we need to get a

00:25:18.660 special exemption, a special exemption to come in and be with your spouse. It breaks my heart. I, I,

00:25:26.580 I think it's terrible. I, I I'm speechless, obviously. You know what, just sort of interrupt

00:25:34.060 you, but I think we experienced this firsthand when our friend Haley was in the hospital

00:25:38.600 recovering from her car accident. I would drive down from the Edmonton area to Calgary, where she was in

00:25:45.360 a long-term care at the hospital. She was there for months. And the only way that I could visit her

00:25:51.900 was if Glenn rolled her outside and we would visit each other in the parking garage while she recovered

00:25:59.440 from a serious spinal cord injury. And if she didn't have somebody like Glenn, um, there, uh, while her 1.00

00:26:08.080 husband was away working, trying to pay the bills, she would not see anybody. She wouldn't just, I mean,

00:26:13.120 that, that would be it because she had to keep her one visitor or her two visitors. She had to keep

00:26:18.700 Glenn as one so that he could take her outside. And she had to keep her husband as one because when

00:26:23.720 he came home from working away, he needed to be able to see her. So when I drove down, we had to visit

00:26:28.160 in the parking garage in the cold while she recovered from a spinal cord injury. I lived this policy. We all

00:26:34.420 did. And people still are, and there's facilities not allowing anybody in the foothills. You know,

00:26:41.080 there's units that won't let anybody in the ICU. Wasn't letting people in to see their loved ones

00:26:46.640 until they were going to die. So they were in, in the hospital intubated for, you know, a month,

00:26:52.880 their loved ones can't see them. And then all of a sudden they're like, you know what,

00:26:55.980 your loved one is not going to survive this. So we need to consider taking away the ventilator

00:27:01.820 and they're going to die. And then that's when they let their loved ones in. When we provide

00:27:05.420 end of life care for people, we're not only providing end of life care for the person who

00:27:10.920 is sick and dying. We're providing end of life care for the family and their loved ones,

00:27:16.200 because that that's who needs to serve, who's going to continue living. These are people who

00:27:21.260 need to then go on and take care of their own families. And we're damaging people. We're harming

00:27:26.360 them. So in any code of ethics you look at, it says, do no harm. We are harming people.

00:27:32.740 We're harming them. We're, we're, we're not promoting healing and health when we're not

00:27:38.560 allowing people to see their loved ones in the hospital. And it's not healing or healthy for

00:27:43.500 the person in the hospital or the person who's at home wondering what's happening with their loved

00:27:47.980 one. Now, tell me about the response from, um, I guess management at Alberta health services to your

00:27:56.180 letter detailing all the ethics problems with what's happening with, I mean, your letter detailed,

00:28:02.560 not only the ethics problems with, um, mandating vaccinations for the entire healthcare system,

00:28:08.920 including pregnant and breastfeeding nurses, but also the problems with the handling of the COVID

00:28:14.700 crisis from the very beginning. What was their response to you? Um, well, their response,

00:28:20.600 basically, I'm pretty sure they just copied and pasted the same as what they sent me in my AHS email

00:28:25.180 about how they are. Um, Oh, I wrote it down health and safety of our workers, patients and public are

00:28:32.260 of the utmost importance. Okay. Except for the only thing that you are addressing is a vaccine that you're

00:28:40.140 mandating into people because you're not addressing all of the problems that have been happening for my

00:28:46.560 entire healthcare professional life. You haven't done anything about that, including that I'm, I'm being

00:28:54.260 far more vocal than I was before. And, um, I'm, I'm doing my best to do it in a professional and

00:29:01.280 respectful manner, but I am being very clear. Our emergency departments have been overwhelmed and abused

00:29:09.780 for what we're using them for, for my 23 years. I've been 28, sorry, 28 years. I've been a healthcare

00:29:16.620 professional. Same thing has been happening. Um, people are using emergency departments as walk-in

00:29:22.440 clinics. Um, you know, they didn't like what the last five doctors maybe told them about something

00:29:27.620 about a condition that they've had for months to years. Um, so they've decided to come to the

00:29:32.540 emergency department. Um, an example, somebody will come in and say, I have back pain and the nurse

00:29:38.240 will say, okay, how long have you had your back pain for? And they'll say two years. And the nurse

00:29:42.940 will say, okay, can you tell me what's different about your back pain today? That's brought you into

00:29:46.700 our emergency department. And they'll say nothing. I'm just tired of my back pain. I'm, I definitely

00:29:53.260 think you should have something done with your back pain. Having chronic pain is very taxing, um, on your,

00:29:59.100 your brain and on your mental health. And, and it can be very, um, uh, traumatizing and it can affect your

00:30:07.460 entire life. So I'm not minimizing the issue, but the emergency department isn't the place to come.

00:30:15.360 We're seeing people come now because they want swabs because they're afraid because they're watching

00:30:19.980 the news and social media. And so now they've got a sniffle or sore throat and they're like, oh my gosh,

00:30:26.020 what if I have COVID? What if you have COVID? What treatment is different because you went to the

00:30:32.000 emergency department than if you stayed home? Nothing. They're going to tell you to go home and rest.

00:30:37.260 And have fluids and get some fresh air and eat healthy. They're not necessarily going to tell

00:30:42.740 you some other things that you should do, like take vitamin D, right? So if what you're going to

00:30:48.660 get from the emergency department is no different than what you can do at home,

00:30:52.340 please don't come to the emergency department. When you come to the emergency department and you have

00:30:56.960 any signs and symptoms of COVID, we have to put you into an isolation room. The hospital I work at

00:31:02.460 has nine rooms in our emergency department. And we have patients who come in for things other than

00:31:07.520 COVID, but we're not able to care for everybody because we put people in isolation, which takes

00:31:12.680 time of nurses to put on their isolation PPE to go in. We're running out of the PPE because we're using

00:31:21.700 it so often. Our environmental service staff members can't keep up with the cleaning because then we have

00:31:27.680 to do a terminal clean in that room because somebody, you know, may or may not have an

00:31:32.860 infectious disease that's been in that room. Um, it's just, so I've asked, I've sent, I've sent emails.

00:31:39.180 I'm like, what is overwhelming? Our emergency department is people, non-urgent complaints.

00:31:44.460 We do infusions in our emergency, in rural emergency departments that shouldn't be done in emergency

00:31:49.840 departments. Um, we have people coming in at, because they can't get in with their family doctor.

00:31:54.960 Yeah. Um, sometimes it's because they phone and their family, um, physician office will ask,

00:32:01.620 do you have signs and symptoms? And if they say yes, then their family physicians won't see them.

00:32:06.200 So then they come to the emergency department. Although I've got a family member who phoned his

00:32:10.040 doctor, didn't tell them at all why he was trying to get in. And that physician office told him to go

00:32:15.760 to the emergency department and this is happening. And this has happened for years. So have we taken care

00:32:22.760 of this problem? No, I've sent an email to my two weeks ago. Have we, has anything come out? What

00:32:28.160 I've been told is that they're working with the communications department so that they can, you

00:32:33.000 know, encourage people not to come to emergency departments to get swabbed right now. Has this

00:32:37.760 come out? It came out when COVID very first in, in March and April, we sent out messaging to the

00:32:43.680 public that please don't come to the emergency department. If you don't have a urgent health concern

00:32:50.760 concern. And I want people to come to the emergency department if they have a health concern. If you

00:32:55.200 have chest pain, please come to the emergency department, phone EMS. If you have stroke-like

00:32:59.720 symptoms, please phone EMS and come to the emergency department. If you have a sniffle, please stay home.

00:33:06.140 Please don't come to the emergency department. So we shared this messaging with the public when COVID

00:33:11.180 first came about in Alberta and, and the public was respectful and we had less visits in our emergency

00:33:17.740 department. So we could take care of the people who, who needed our care. And so why is it taking

00:33:23.840 weeks to come out with this messaging when it did come out already? I don't understand. So my, my

00:33:31.720 concerns with this mandate is because I've got so many questions that nobody is giving me answers to.

00:33:38.800 So give me, and, and the response from AHS, that email that they responded with, they, they responded

00:33:46.480 with their QA sheet that they have. That doesn't answer any of the questions that I have. I've read

00:33:53.360 all of your stuff. I've read it all because I've been in a leadership position in our hospital since

00:33:58.880 this has all started. So I've read everything that you've put out over and over, and I'm reading

00:34:04.040 your COVID information and trying to get it all sorted and things that are changing. I'm staying

00:34:09.480 on top of it, but you are still not answering my questions and your email. No, that, that didn't

00:34:16.800 answer any of my questions. You know, it's a placebo it's to placate you and shut you up and, you know,

00:34:23.000 make you go away. But I don't think you're the kind of lady to do that kind of thing. What would 1.00

00:34:28.100 you do differently if you were able to change one, two, or three things immediately in the healthcare

00:34:33.940 system? What would Debbie Carrot manager in AHS do? Um, you know, I, it's, that's, it's a hard

00:34:45.340 question to answer because there's so many things. Um, what I have seen as an issue, um, for a lot of

00:34:52.780 times and which I've advocated for and which I volunteered to go on committees for is that we

00:34:57.900 need to have people in appropriate places. So if you are acutely ill, then you should be in an acute

00:35:04.900 care bed or an acute care unit. If you require a long-term care bed, then you should be in a long-term

00:35:11.300 care unit, not on an acute care bed. Um, the hospital that I work out, we've had consistently a

00:35:19.960 third of the people who are on our unit needing an alternate level of care. So either a supportive

00:35:24.920 living, um, generally level four or 4d, which is for people who have dementia or a long-term care.

00:35:32.620 So, uh, there's many reasons why people stay on our unit this, um, for this reason, and none of

00:35:40.220 which I think is reasonable. Um, so we need to do that. If, if the Alberta province is telling us,

00:35:48.360 whether it's AHS or the government that we need beds, that's how we're going to get beds.

00:35:52.700 So Verna, you said there's 200 long-term care beds all of a sudden available.

00:35:57.100 Well, great. Where are they? My units, uh, still same people on my unit right now. So they haven't

00:36:04.020 gotten those beds when places are on outbreaks. We're not moving people in there. Well, every

00:36:09.500 place is on outbreak right now because their criteria for an outbreak, um, is one person,

00:36:14.580 not necessarily one positive person, one person who has signs and symptoms now that they suspect

00:36:20.320 that it could be an outbreak, they're on outbreak. So we're not moving people any, any longer, um,

00:36:26.780 with influenza or with norovirus before we had to have three positive people. And that's,

00:36:33.080 that's not three positives. So if somebody's admitted to the acute care with, um, positive for

00:36:37.740 COVID or norovirus or influenza, which norovirus and influenza apparently have gone away,

00:36:43.380 by the way. Um, miraculous. I know COVID has solved all these problems. Um, then we needed

00:36:50.040 three positive cases that from people who are already on the unit. That's how we declared an

00:36:55.160 outbreak. When we got five people with positive swabs, we stopped testing, but that's not what we're

00:37:01.100 doing with COVID. Not only are we like continually testing, we're doing prevalence testing. People who

00:37:07.060 are in long-term cares are having swabs shoved up their nose every three days for prevalence.

00:37:12.660 We are damaging people. It is awful. Tell me who, when you were in a long-term care wants, wants this,

00:37:20.900 you know? Um, sorry, I, I realized I digressed from your question. So one is if, if they're telling us

00:37:28.620 that we need beds, then we need to have people in appropriate beds. And we haven't been doing that.

00:37:32.760 And we haven't been doing that for my entire career. Um, we need to properly utilize emergency

00:37:38.000 departments. Um, also has not been done. If we properly utilized emergency departments,

00:37:44.620 we would also then be able to free up emergency medical service staff members, um, because we are

00:37:50.480 also not using emergency medical services properly. Um, people are phoning ambulances, um, for reasons

00:37:56.620 that, um, um, they shouldn't necessarily be, um, we are overwhelming that system. We aren't able to

00:38:06.520 transfer people out for things like CAT scans because EMS is busy standing in hallways because

00:38:12.640 there's no hospital beds to move their patients into, um, because they are being diverted to all

00:38:18.300 over the province. Um, so they're leaving their home communities. Um, they're being used for transfers

00:38:23.800 that are unnecessary because somebody doesn't have a ride. Um, you know, we're also leaving

00:38:30.920 people in the hospital who don't need to be in the hospital. It's not, it's not only people who are

00:38:35.000 waiting for, um, an alternate level of care placement. We leave people in the hospital because

00:38:40.340 it's faster to get diagnostic testing if you're in the hospital than if you're at home. So I was at a

00:38:46.040 meeting, I don't know, six years ago, and this was brought to the attention. This has not changed.

00:38:50.280 So it's a, it's a huge flaw in the system. Um, I, I don't want to tag people against each other,

00:38:57.680 but we have physicians who won't discharge their patients from the hospital when the rest of the

00:39:02.440 multidisciplinary team has deemed that that person, um, no longer requires acute care services,

00:39:07.900 but, you know, sometimes people don't want to leave. They feel safe in the hospital. Um, they're fed in

00:39:14.160 the hospital, you know? So there's, there's lots of things that we can do for people in their homes

00:39:18.320 that we're not, um, the extra healthcare workers that Severna, you, uh, thinks is, is going to solve

00:39:26.140 and keep people up at home. I'm not sure if she knows what happens in the home care system. Does 0.97

00:39:32.540 she know what healthcare workers or sorry, um, healthcare aids do for people when they're at home, 1.00

00:39:39.020 they help bathe them. Um, they can help them with their medication. If it's bubble pack, they can pop it

00:39:45.320 out of the package and into a cup. So that person can take their medication. Um, you know, it's,

00:39:51.060 it's very limited. They can help them get dressed. The people that I have in the hospital right now

00:39:56.340 and they keep care waiting for long-term care. That's not going to help them. I can't send them

00:40:00.900 home. Oh, it's okay. We're going to help some, we're going to get you dressed in the morning. So now

00:40:04.760 you can stay at home. It's, it's much more complex. Um, now getting back to, I mean, you should be the

00:40:13.120 health minister, but anyway, instead of the lawyer. Oh, Sheila, come on. I know. I know. Um,

00:40:21.260 who keeps doing the same wrong thing over and over and over again and expecting some sort of

00:40:27.260 different miraculous result. Anyway, getting back to the reason I wanted to have you on because

00:40:32.060 you're so brave. You spoke out a bit against the, um, forced inoculation of the entire, uh,

00:40:39.860 healthcare system here in Alberta, how many you you've told me from the inside, both from

00:40:46.720 being a paramedic and seeing the, the problems with the emergency system, but also in ICU and in

00:40:53.820 management, how many nurses can this healthcare system stand to lose if they don't go along to 1.00

00:41:03.520 get along with the forced inoculation with the COVID vaccine? Oh, you know, this is the other

00:41:12.680 thing that just, it blows my mind right now. I'm, I feel very fortunate at the site that I work at. Um,

00:41:21.060 up until a few months ago, we've had a multitude of people apply for our positions. We've got a very

00:41:28.380 good reputation for having, um, great teamwork, um, of being welcoming to new staff members and to

00:41:34.620 students. Students also really like to come to the site that I work at. Um, and now I'm, I'm having,

00:41:41.480 um, positions that nobody's applying for. And this has happened to lots of other sites and,

00:41:48.780 and it occurred to them before it occurred to us, um, started occurring or occurring. I don't know

00:41:54.620 that's the right word, but, um, and I've had positions that I've had to post five times because

00:42:01.180 I am not getting applicants to our end positions that is open. Um, we are, we are hanging on by a

00:42:09.340 thread and the staff members are exhausted. Staff members have been working extra hours. Um, the

00:42:17.260 province came out with an uplift program a few months ago, which, um, gave people the

00:42:24.440 opportunity to increase their FTE. So when we implemented that, um, I, I'm fortunate. I, I think

00:42:32.340 I got, um, the equivalent of 2.13 FTE for that. And I was really excited and, and said to my staff,

00:42:40.340 you know, this is great. Um, we're giving people the opportunity to work at a higher FTE. I feel like

00:42:45.260 this is going to give us a bit of a break so you can, um, you know, we can focus on some of the other

00:42:50.600 things that we need to look at on how we can improve the care that we're providing for people.

00:42:55.500 Um, we don't even know, you can't even tell that we've got people working at a higher FTE right now

00:43:01.560 because we still have so many openings, um, that there's some sick calls. There's not,

00:43:10.300 there's not as many as I would expect when considering that as soon as somebody has a

00:43:14.780 sign and symptom of COVID, which has a long list of, of signs and symptoms. Um, so there is some

00:43:21.280 sick calls, but it's just like, we are not, we're not managing. And I, I don't just mean my site. I

00:43:27.560 mean, many other sites there's been bed closures because of staffing. I have never seen this where

00:43:33.340 there's so many sites with bed closures, which they just opened up by the way, they opened up these

00:43:39.000 beds and that's what was reported is we opened up beds. Yeah. I'm sure you did open up the beds,

00:43:44.700 but is that because now you have the staff members to safely care for people or did you open up beds

00:43:50.540 because people are saying we need more beds? Um, having a room open doesn't care, safely care for

00:43:57.680 people having proper staffing levels does. We do not have proper staffing levels right now. So I'm not

00:44:05.020 sure if AHS thinks that by coercing and bullying people to get a vaccine that they don't want to get,

00:44:13.740 that that's the solution. We are going to lose people and we're not only going to lose healthcare

00:44:19.200 workers. We're going to lose people who work in other departments. We need everybody in our system

00:44:24.060 to work. We need, we need environmental services. We need maintenance workers. We need health information

00:44:30.100 record, um, management people. We need everybody to be at work and that's not going to happen.

00:44:35.660 So I'm not sure how they say that, um, the health and safety of our workers, patients in public are

00:44:42.240 of the utmost importance when they're driving people away. I, I don't get it. They're driving

00:44:49.320 people away. And I know this because they are driving me away. And I know of hundreds of other

00:44:55.280 nurses who are ends who feel the same way. And so they're not listening. Um, I don't know who they

00:45:02.820 think is going to be taking care of people. And this is where, you know, the public who

00:45:07.780 thinks that people who are unvaccinated are being selfish and it's, it's the unvaccinated people's 0.86

00:45:13.480 fault. Um, you need to, you're not going to have people taking care of you. So it's, it's very,

00:45:20.600 I don't know what's going to happen. I I've heard in Quebec too, that they say, well, we're going to

00:45:24.740 have contract workers. Well, where are these contract workers? Do you think that there's a

00:45:29.780 bunch of RNs and LPNs and healthcare aids? I think there's all these people sitting around waiting to

00:45:35.680 go for their contract work because the ones you're going to lose, they can't be contract workers

00:45:39.960 because they still won't be able to step foot in your facility. So where are these contract workers

00:45:44.260 coming from? Um, are, I, I have theories that are we, are these contract workers going to be coming

00:45:53.360 from other countries? So, uh, I'm opposed to that, of course, when you've got, um, willing and, uh,

00:46:02.320 people who are ready to work right here in our province, who you're saying can't come to work

00:46:06.100 because they're not taking a vaccine that you've chosen for our bodies. Um, but when you bring people

00:46:11.160 and even, even from other zones within Alberta, it takes extra orientation because we've got policies

00:46:16.860 and procedures we have to follow and do things differently. So, um, bringing nurses from other

00:46:21.440 provinces and other countries is, um, uh, problematic and that the orientation and who do you think's

00:46:29.840 orientating them? Because the nurses who are working right now are done. They are exhausted. They are 0.78

00:46:35.720 physically exhausted, mentally exhausted. So now we're going to ask them, oh, here, can you please

00:46:40.800 orientate people who know nothing about our healthcare system or how we work? Um, I, I feel

00:46:48.560 like honestly, HS is playing a game of Russian roulette and, uh, it's not going to be good for

00:46:53.840 the people in our province. Yeah. I hadn't considered some of the points that you're making there. I just

00:46:59.100 naturally thought, okay, well, there will be this mass exodus of nurses or at least a, a, a substantial 0.98

00:47:05.580 exodus of nurses and healthcare workers and people who work in the healthcare system who just aren't

00:47:10.020 going to get vaccinated, but the vaccine mandate, as you point out is also causing problems with

00:47:15.860 filling existing positions that are no one's applying for. And then you're going to have

00:47:21.120 overworked nurses saying, you know what? It's not for me. I'll go back to school or I'll go do

00:47:26.980 something else or I'll stay home with my kids, whatever the world is your oyster, but you don't

00:47:31.480 have to work yourself to death in the healthcare system. So I guess the problems that will manifest

00:47:36.680 are sort of threefold there with staffing. Now I would really hate for the healthcare system

00:47:43.760 to lose someone like you, but that could be one of the consequences for you speaking out. What are

00:47:50.840 the professional ramifications you might face for even just sitting down with me in this interview,

00:47:56.140 where you talk about your personal experience in the healthcare system?

00:47:59.380 Um, uh, well, I'm a union exempt employee. And so, um, uh, I feel that it's easier and, and Alberta

00:48:10.160 health services has, um, terminated employees who are union exempt for, um, their own reasons. Um,

00:48:18.660 um, and you know what, if that's what happens and that's, I mean, I'll fight it obviously, but,

00:48:24.060 um, that's, um, that's, that, that's fine with me right now because, um, me standing up for what

00:48:32.480 I believe in and what I believe is right for patients, um, and staff members far outweighs

00:48:38.740 that consequence. Um, I'm also concerned about, um, my governing body, um, which is Karna.

00:48:45.900 Um, you know, there's some, there's different ways that people can look at, you know, the code of

00:48:53.640 ethics or speaking out and things like that. So I'm not sure if our governing body is going to be

00:48:59.580 taking on this mandate as well. Um, I have asked them that question. Um, I emailed it and I, I received

00:49:09.580 a response and they said, well, can you please call me? And I said, well, I'd prefer if you can please

00:49:14.420 give it to me in writing. So I haven't heard back yet. Um, and the reason I asked that question,

00:49:19.320 um, I've already, I've already renewed my license for this year, but there are staff members who

00:49:24.980 haven't. And they're like, if AHS isn't going to let me work, or if Karna is going to mandate this,

00:49:31.080 then we should know before we register. So it costs, um, $656 to register. And if the day after you

00:49:38.660 pay your money, you decide that you don't want to be registered any longer, you don't get any of your

00:49:43.060 money back. So, I mean, it's an extra financial burden on people who are looking at not getting

00:49:48.760 paid from their employer. Um, so, I mean, that's a concern as well. Um, but not one that's going to

00:49:55.940 stop me from, from advocating for patients and the public and for staff members and for myself

00:50:03.480 and for my grandchildren and, and for everybody else. So.

00:50:07.260 My last question, if Tyler Shandro, the lawyer turned health minister, we're watching right now,

00:50:16.840 what's the one thing that you would say to him?

00:50:20.560 I would say to him and Jason Kinney and Bernie, you, and lots of others that you need to start

00:50:27.400 talking to the people who are working on the floor. I know that there are, um, RNs and LPNs,

00:50:33.980 healthcare workers, paramedics, police officers, firefighters who are for this mandate. Um, so

00:50:41.160 you need to talk to people, but that's what I had in my letter as well. When did you talk to us?

00:50:47.200 You're not talking to us. You're not listening. Um, I, I am supportive of the staff that I work

00:50:53.480 with who choose to be vaccinated. I'm supportive of the staff I work with who choose not to be

00:50:58.040 vaccinated. This division needs to stop. It is, um, disgusting. Um, it's very troubling. Um, people

00:51:08.740 have taken polar opposites and we are saying the most, I say, we, it's not me, um, unethical statements

00:51:18.060 that are so disheartening for people who are compassionate and who want to take care of their

00:51:23.980 patients. So I'm hearing things like, um, from physicians and from nurses saying that if you're

00:51:31.720 unvaccinated, you shouldn't be treated in the hospital. Okay. But we have been treating people 0.68

00:51:38.440 who smoke and who drink and elicit drug use and doing all sorts of things. But if you're

00:51:43.380 unvaccinated, you shouldn't be treated. That's troubling. They're saying these in open areas,

00:51:48.360 such as the emergency department, where anybody can hear you, um, saying that people should have

00:51:54.960 to pay. If you get COVID and you're unvaccinated, you should have to pay for your healthcare.

00:51:59.300 Well, first of all, we all pay for our healthcare. It's called our taxes. And, um, why, how can you

00:52:06.360 pick and choose people to, for that? It's, it's just awful. Um, there was a Facebook posting of a

00:52:13.520 physician and his page is open. Um, and I will be reporting to the CMA and to Alberta health services

00:52:21.600 because, um, his statement is just terrible. And I'm just, I'm going to open it up on my phone

00:52:29.280 here. I took a picture of it. Um, so, well, it's about time someone said it, but if at this point

00:52:37.620 you remain unvaccinated, then you are just plain stupid, uh, he carries on blah, blah, blah. And 1.00

00:52:46.000 then he says, um, your Google searches, healthy diet, lifestyle choices, and supplements won't cut

00:52:52.620 it. You have no clue, literally zero idea. Hmm. Well, Mr. Doctor, I do have a clue and I do have an idea.

00:53:04.700 And because I have an alternate perspective than you do does not make me stupid. Um, and I need to 0.94

00:53:13.440 question, how are you treating your patients? So are you treating your patients who have chosen not to

00:53:19.980 be vaccinated differently because you just made this a public post? Yeah. Public. Um, I don't like to

00:53:30.780 call names, but I'm not sure that the unvaccinated people are the ones who are not the wisest. Um, 0.95

00:53:37.340 if you look at like the CMA code of ethics, um, he's gone against so many of them, people have the

00:53:46.940 right to their own opinions and they have the right to choose what they're going to put into their body.

00:53:51.560 And they should have the right to choose who's going to come see them when they are sick in the

00:53:56.580 hospital. So you can't just look at one area and then say blanket statement for people. That's not

00:54:05.300 the way things go. Um, so I am, and I've heard this from multiple people that this is what they're

00:54:12.960 hearing in their workplace. AHS says that we don't tolerate that. Well, don't we? Cause it sure seems

00:54:20.220 like we do. And this is also what I sent, um, to the senior leaders of my portfolio. I'm like,

00:54:27.900 this is awful. This can't carry on. Uh, this has gone beyond us putting up a poster saying that we

00:54:35.300 don't tolerate abuse in the workplace. Um, your, your, my, the response to that also was just about

00:54:43.820 the AHS. We don't tolerate this really, but you are, and it's awful. And we are, there's people

00:54:52.200 who don't want to come to the hospital because they're being treated this way. Yeah. That is not

00:54:56.620 our job. Our job is to take care of people. We're not taking care of people. And when the government

00:55:02.140 is spreading this fear and you listen to Jason Kinney for the love of God, get vaccinated for the love of

00:55:08.480 God, listen to what people are telling you. You know, it's not like one person who's against this.

00:55:15.080 There's many people. We need to look at everybody's perspectives. We need to respect people. Um, I am

00:55:21.060 just, I, I think the division, um, is, is terrible. There's people who won't even look at me because

00:55:28.660 they've asked somebody if I believe the same things as Glenn has, um, has said publicly. Um, they've asked

00:55:38.100 somebody else if I'm vaccinated or not, and then they will not look me in the eye. You know, if

00:55:44.400 you would like to know why I make choices for myself, then, you know, maybe I'll share some of

00:55:50.560 it. I won't, you know, some things are private. It's really none of your business, but if you really

00:55:55.060 want to know what my perspective is, then have a conversation with me. Yeah. And I would like to

00:56:00.620 have a conversation with you and find out why you feel the way that you do, but we are lacking that

00:56:05.920 right now we're making a judgment and we're using derogatory, um, remarks such as, um, uh,

00:56:13.880 anti-vax and anti-mask that's derogatory, just like anything else. I'm not anti-vax. I choose

00:56:21.800 not to be vaccinated for COVID-19, but I've been vaccinated for everything else. So why,

00:56:27.920 why are we able to stereotype people for this issue when we're told not to do that for anything

00:56:34.460 else? You know, um, we're told that if somebody looks differently than us, we should not say,

00:56:41.860 well, where are you from? What country are you from? Because we're, we have the assumption that

00:56:46.480 they are not Canadian, that they were not born in Canada. So why are we making assumptions about

00:56:52.200 somebody who doesn't want to put a mask on their face or somebody who chooses not to receive this

00:56:57.100 vaccination? Um, I think we've lost our humanity. Um, I, I don't even like to go to the grocery store

00:57:05.680 because, um, first of all, having a mask on my face, I like to smile at people. I like to interact

00:57:11.800 with people. Um, I put a mask on my face. I want to put my head down. I don't look at people. And then

00:57:17.540 now when I look around, I'm like, well, what are they saying? Because people are being so cruel to

00:57:23.300 each other. Yeah. Now, Debbie, I know I said one final question, but I have one more. Do you have

00:57:30.980 any advice for healthcare workers like yourself who are opposed to forced inoculations as a condition

00:57:39.560 of your employment? What do you have to say to them? Because you are willing to be the public face

00:57:44.720 of all of this, but what do you have to say to them as they try to navigate a workplace where they are

00:57:50.940 being treated like lepers and they could lose their job? Um, I would say this is what I'm going to tell 1.00

00:58:00.360 you that I see to start with. Um, I am a supportive manager. Um, I don't know, I haven't spoken to other

00:58:08.980 managers who are taking the same stance as I have been. Um, I'm hearing from a lot of people across our

00:58:17.540 province, um, uh, healthcare workers who are feeling like they are being bullied by their manager,

00:58:23.500 or they're just being given the blanket statement by their manager, just report your vaccination,

00:58:28.420 just fill out this form, just whatever. Um, I've never managed that way. So I am supportive of staff

00:58:36.640 members. Like I said before, whether you've chosen to be vaccinated or not. Um, what I'm hearing from

00:58:42.640 people is that people who have, um, a stance where they think this mandate is good, um, or that they're

00:58:50.140 vaccinated and that they then feel like they're superior to others, um, are speaking their voice

00:58:56.340 in the workplace. They're speaking, um, saying whatever they feel like they want to say, um, which

00:59:01.900 isn't appropriate regardless of what the topic is. Um, when we're in the workplace, we're there to do,

00:59:07.460 to do a job and to stand up with our ethics and to be professionals. Um, the people who have, um,

00:59:13.960 concerns with this vaccination or even people who have been vaccinated, but they're against this

00:59:18.960 mandate feel like they can't say anything. They don't want to have the conflict in the workplace.

00:59:25.020 They don't feel like they can voice their perspective on things because the other people

00:59:30.480 are being so loud or, um, or so firm on what they're saying. So that's a problem.

00:59:37.460 Um, and, and, and my recommendation to people isn't necessarily to be saying, to standing up and

00:59:44.740 voicing that in the workplace. Nobody should, we don't need to talk about it in the workplace.

00:59:49.860 Um, but we, we do need to open conversation. So saying things like, um, you know, I have an

00:59:57.660 alternate perspective. If you'd like to have a conversation about this sometime, I would be

01:00:01.420 happy to do that away from work. Um, so doing that, um,

01:00:07.460 not being fearful of, of speaking your voice or your opinion. Um, and it's hard because people are

01:00:15.580 being so cruel and, um, you know, this isn't the only thing going on in people's lives. We still have

01:00:22.920 our, our other, we had, we had lots of challenges in our life before this came about and we still have

01:00:28.360 those challenges. Um, so we need to be kind and empathetic and compassionate to each other.

01:00:33.680 Um, I do encourage other managers to advocate with your staff or to have conversations with your

01:00:40.540 staff members. Um, yeah. And just, I, I think we need to hold tight and, and, and, um, question

01:00:49.900 what rights, even if you believe that this mandate is right, what rights are you willing to give up

01:00:54.860 and what do you think is coming next? Debbie, I want to thank you so much for being so brave

01:01:00.680 to advocate for your fellow healthcare workers. Um, I know that this puts you in some employment

01:01:06.560 jeopardy and if any, um, ill treatment should befall you, um, rebel news has your back. Don't you worry.

01:01:15.080 Thank you, Sheila. Thanks, Debbie. Um, we'll check in again very, very soon. Um, and if,

01:01:20.180 like I said, if any sort of consequences come your way for speaking out, speaking to me, um,

01:01:26.660 even supporting Glenn, I guess, please let me know. You bet. Have a great day. You too. Thanks.

01:01:34.340 Thank you.

01:01:35.240 Debbie's an ICU nurse. The Alberta government has not yet redeployed her to ICU rooms that they tell

01:01:53.160 us are collapsing. Again, just another instance of government mismanagement of the pandemic. And I

01:01:59.540 want to reiterate that if Debbie needs any legal support, we're here to provide it. And we're going

01:02:05.400 to do that through your donations to fight vaccine passports.com in partnership with the democracy

01:02:13.400 fund, a registered Canadian charity that works to advance civil liberties in Canada for all Canadians.

01:02:22.740 Well, everybody that's the show for tonight. Thank you so much to Debbie carrot. Thank you so much to

01:02:28.960 you at home for tuning in. I'll see everybody back here in the same time in the same place next

01:02:34.400 weekend. Remember, don't let the government tell you that you've had too much to think.

Rebel News Podcast - September 23, 2021

SHEILA GUNN REID ｜ Acute care manager in Alberta speaks out against vaccine passports, pandemic response

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