SHEILA GUNN REID ｜ Can bartering help social-credit proof your finances？
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Summary
John Porter, CEO of BarterPay, joins me on The Gunn Show to talk about his company, Barter Pay, and how it s revolutionizing the way we do business. In this episode, we talk about how Barterpay has been around for a while, why it s so unique, and what it s all about.
Transcript
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What's old is new again, including commerce, bartering for goods and services.
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I'm Sheila Gunn-Reed, and you're watching The Gunn Show.
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You know, over the course of the last two and a half years,
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a lot of people are discovering or rediscovering the old ways,
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I think a lot of that had to do with the fact that the systems and institutions
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people thought they could trust and rely upon broke down with very, very little pressure or strain.
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People took up baking and gardening and foraging for their own food and preserving their food
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and even hunting because they were worried about supply chain issues.
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I think people are starting to rethink their relationships with their communities
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and their neighbors and realizing that those connections should probably be a lot stronger
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and our connections and trust in our institutions should probably be a little bit more decentralized.
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Which is why I was so interested to learn about this parallel financial system right under our noses.
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It's been there for a while, built by John Porter at Barter Pay.
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But the pandemic has locked a lot of people's assets and services
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Businesses had a lot of money tied up in assets that they couldn't use,
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So along comes this parallel system, Barter Pay, to sort of unlock all of that.
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Although Barter Pay has been around for much longer than the pandemic.
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It was there, poised, at the right time to help businesses.
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And now Barter Pay is rolling that business-to-business connection out to the people.
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Given that a lot of people have a healthy distrust in their own financial institutions these days,
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as many Canadians are now worried that their political opinions
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might disconnect them from their financial assets.
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I think bartering is a wonderful way to make sure that people can still get the things that they need
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without subjecting themselves to a bankster political litmus test.
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and let's hear from John Porter of Barter Pay in an interview we recorded earlier Wednesday morning.
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So joining me now is John Porter from Barter Pay.
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but I find it fascinating that your business has really done something special
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in that you address these, for lack of a better term,
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stranded assets that so many businesses were left with during the pandemic because of shutdown.
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So businesses with cash flow problems were really able to address that problem
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But before we get into that, tell us what Barter Pay is all about.
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And maybe even a little bit about yourself, how you sort of turned back the clock on commerce.
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It's the Barter Pay, the oldest, newest way of doing business.
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So yeah, I mean, I was heading to Waterloo University for Engineering back in 1996
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and took a little bit of a left turn and got involved with some sales and marketing
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and met somebody who was sort of starting this barter company in Toronto.
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And long story short, they hosted a convention.
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There was a couple of people there that were wanting to launch a business in Canada,
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And so I just came on board and got involved with that brand.
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And then in 2017, I actually bartered my way to a meeting with Gary Vaynerchuk in New York
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and came back from that, you know, got a lot of social media coverage off of that,
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but came back from that and then really launched Barter Pay in 2018.
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So we've been in the barter payment space for over a quarter century,
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You know, back then business owners weren't ready.
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You know, nobody was thinking about alternate forms of payment, that sort of thing.
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And so we just stuck with it long enough and along the way, my wife and I just celebrated
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26 years married, but we've had four boys, you know, age almost 16 to 23.
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So building an unconventional business in a time where really nobody understands it or
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And then obviously growing a bigger family of busy boys was an interesting time.
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So tell me exactly what Barter Pay does, because I find this fascinating.
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So we're trading and horse dealing on things all the time out here in the country.
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But I think it's really interesting that you brought this to sort of the e-space, which
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We're very grateful for this opportunity to serve businesses in this way and soon to be
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But at the end of the day, Barter Pay, what we are as a company now that helps hundreds,
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sorry, thousands of Canadian businesses, all Canadian businesses that want to participate,
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get the things that they need without having to use their hard-earned cash.
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And so, yeah, we do that across the country and in multiple different cities.
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But we all know that, you know, like you've already mentioned, bartering is really the oldest
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It's how business was invented a long time ago.
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And so, but we also know that for two parties to enter into a fair trade, each side has to
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want what the other person has at the same time and value, or they can't make that deal.
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And so, yeah, to solve that problem, we've just created this platform that allows a business
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They can establish an account number, then they can offer up their goods or services onto the
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And we only really focus on what we call, you already alluded to this, their spare capacity,
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For a service-based business, you know, that's time and space that's expiring.
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For a product-based business, that's extra idle inventory sitting in the warehouse or on
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the shelf that normally they'd have to discount.
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And so, yeah, they offer up this spare capacity onto the network and they're able to bank barter
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And one barter credit equals one Canadian dollar for valuation purposes.
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And as they bank this new revenue stream of barter credits, they're able to then take
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that barter value and go and barter and trade with anybody in the entire network.
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They're not restricted to those that acquired their good or service.
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So instead of this one-to-one conundrum of bartering, it's now this one-to-many ecosystem,
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this sharing economy, this bartering network that allows all these businesses to monetize their
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spare capacity in real time and all get what they need through the barter credit system.
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So how many businesses are actively using this?
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I think it's, as I said before, I think it's just fascinating that you figured out this way
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to connect people with, you know, things that they have, but they can't use with people who
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want it and have this other thing that they can't use.
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And I'd love to chat about a couple of examples.
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But just to answer your question, like we have about just over 4,000 businesses in about
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Um, it's a very painstaking process to grow a parallel economy, especially a bartering
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system that's dealing in a new form of, you know, digital medium of exchange, right?
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So, uh, which is the barter credits themselves.
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If you can picture 20, 25 years ago, I was 20 years old and I was, um, you know, starting
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this barter system and I would, I would, you know, go through the yellow pages to try and
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And, um, one of them was an office furniture place.
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And so we just found out that he had been, uh, uh, pulled, pulled out a bunch of, uh,
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used furniture from McMaster university and put in a bunch of new stuff.
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Anyways, long story short, I'm chatting with him.
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Hey, can we barter some workstations for our new office?
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And as I'm filling out the actual application to onboard him as the very first customer,
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he's like, well, where can I use my barter credits?
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Once I, once I gained them, I said, sorry, Terry, like you're the first guy, like you just
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And so it's been, it's been very difficult to grow, but again, we just stuck with it
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And, and, and, you know, uh, for such a time as this, we now realized 25 years later that
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it's actually going to, going to become mainstream and really help a lot of businesses, uh, you
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You know, when you and I were talking the other day before we, before I was so intrigued that
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Um, you were telling me about how essential this is for people with perishables.
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Uh, there's a number of examples there from both from the time and space side, you know,
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service-based businesses and, and the, uh, the product-based businesses, you know, products
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But for example, uh, we did a deal, uh, recently, uh, about a year ago with a greenhouse in Niagara
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And, uh, we found out that they were going to be, um, putting in their compost pile about
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They just had, you know, they were a pretty big operation.
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They just had extra plants that they didn't sell.
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Um, and they're used to kind of having that, uh, that dump pile kind of build every, at
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We'll advertise out your, you know, these SKUs to our network, uh, we'll, we'll sell
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off some of those plants into barter credits and then you can use the barter credits.
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So anyways, uh, thank goodness it was about, it was about October, uh, and it was a warmer
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Thank goodness, because we ended up selling off about $150,000 worth of plants.
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He was able to use them for things like printing and marketing and web, web development.
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And he even gave, uh, I think 50,000 or more to charity, uh, through our barter pay it forward
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We also have a charitable arm in the whole thing.
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So yeah, it's like a super cool story of what was going to be going into the compost pile
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is now being, you know, is capturing that value and now being redistributed, uh, for his
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Now tell me about that charitable part, because, um, I think that's an incredible thing too.
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The, not only are you helping businesses connect with other businesses so that, you know, they
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can utilize the things that normally that would just be a, a write-off, but you also are giving
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We really want to be a community impact business in that way.
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Uh, it's, it's one of our biggest why's it is our biggest why right now is it's helping
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small businesses and helping the community as well.
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So essentially we've got thousands of businesses that are on the platform and that's growing.
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Uh, we're teaching them to, you know, barter that spare capacity, monetize it, capture that
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value and use those barter credits to offset future cash expenditures, um, to boost their
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But at the same time, we're saying, Hey, in order to be competitive in today's environment,
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you really have to be connected to your community as well.
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But we also know that these small businesses don't have much cash to give back.
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Uh, and so we've just invented a new way for, for businesses to, to barter, but also to, uh,
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So we established the barter pay it forward foundation, uh, Canadian registered charity.
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And now we've got, uh, you know, thousands, hundreds of thousands of barter credits being
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donated to our foundation from these businesses.
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We give them a great, you know, pat on the back and a social media shout out.
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But then we take these barter credits in our foundation and we distribute them to charities
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across Canada in all the communities that we're in.
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And then those charities, this is the best part, take those same barter credits and spend
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them right back into the same ecosystem from where they were generated to begin with.
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So again, it's this closed loop, uh, exchange of value.
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We're now we're looping in all these charities to, uh, offset their admin and overhead costs.
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Like they need, you know, video production, website production, uh, swag, um, you know, printing
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costs, um, you know, all sorts of things that they need for their, for their chair to run
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And we want to help them reduce those admin and overhead costs so that more of the precious
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donor cash can go to the end cause instead of administration.
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So yeah, it's, it's such a great, um, feeling for us and our team loves it.
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It's, it's, it's why we come into the work, come into work and do the work that we do.
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I think that's what it's, it's great because I think at the end of the day, the charities
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probably those barter credits go a little bit further than cash would if you were out spending
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cash in the real world because of the ability to sort of negotiate what they want for what,
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you know, for the costs that they're willing to pay.
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But what's the point of entry for a business that wants to get involved in this system?
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Because I think it might be a little overwhelming.
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So what's the point of entry and how, is it easy?
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I'm a little scared, but I'm also, I'm also scared of crypto.
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So we're really big on making sure there's a, there's the right fit.
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And so our process for onboarding, um, you know, new businesses into the platform, you
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know, we're actually building out an app that will help, you know, this onboarding process
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and sort of teaching and training and make it more self-serve.
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But, uh, in the meantime, we're at our, our process is working.
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What we do is we, we go to our website, barterpay.ca.
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And from there you can, you know, scan the website, get started, you know, watch a few videos
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That's all that's going to do is book you into a, into a quick 15 minute discovery call with one
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of our business development people, mainly Cody and Cody will spend 15 minutes just kind
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He will, um, you know, assess whether or not there's a fit, make sure that you actually
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have spare capacity, whether it's time and space or extra inventory.
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Cause that's the, uh, you know, the, that's the, that's the best way to kind of enter the
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And it's all about just banking some barter credits and then utilizing some barter credits.
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There's no minimums, you know, there's no nothing like that.
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Uh, we part ways, you know, knowing a bit more about each other's business.
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And if we, if we don't feel there's a fit for your business right now, or for the, for
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the, for the prospect business, we'll just say, Hey, you know what?
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We don't have a need for this in the network or whatever the case may be.
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We're also, um, you know, as much as we have a technology that sort of manages all the
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transactions, we actually, uh, really pride ourselves in being a human to human connection,
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uh, in terms of our relationship with our clients.
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And so every business that comes into the platform, we assign them a real life barter
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coach, a real life person, uh, that manages, uh, about a 200 to 300, uh, client portfolio.
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And that coach is an extension of their team, both from helping them market that spare capacity
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out to the network so they can earn barter credits and capture that value.
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But also maybe more importantly on the spending side, on the utilization side where they're
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like, Hey, here's my wishlist of what I'm looking for.
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You know, can you kind of put together some deals and find me some vendors that I can use
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barter credits with instead of having to touch my cash.
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And so that's, uh, that's a really great feature for the barter pay B2B side is the,
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If you're a small business owner and you've tried to actually talk to a human being at the
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So to provide business coaching, just, you know, as part of getting involved in the system,
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I think that's a great value to a lot of businesses, but you've expanded this barter
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system to normal people out there who maybe have, you know, again, I say stranded assets
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or they want to barter the old fashioned way, person to person, the way it was in the villages
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for millennia before the big banks and the government got involved.
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Yeah, so we've been approached, uh, numerous times over the last, uh, five to 10 years
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about how we can extend this kind of like the charities we're approaching us to make
00:15:30.240
it, you know, part of the charitable sector, uh, people have been asking, you know, how,
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And we've kind of, you know, um, we're just busy building the B2B side and the charitable
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So we really didn't have time, but over the last couple of years, obviously with, with, um,
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where things are at, uh, you know, it's become even more prominent and prevalent.
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So, uh, my wife and I, you know, thought about it and we're like, Hey, six months
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ago, well, four to six months ago, we decided to, um, build a brand and, and we launched
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It is the name of the person to person barter system that we're developing.
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Everybody wants to, um, you know, be part of a big part of a new way to transact, you
00:16:13.480
And everybody's got, but the people also get back to the coincidence of wants, you know, they
00:16:17.940
have things that they want to offer, but it doesn't necessarily line up with what they
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So we have to create a way, uh, that these people can actually barter and trade their
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skills, their time, their expertise, their products, their, their downsizing their home,
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And they, there's gotta be a way that they can, they can do that on an organized, uh, in
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And that's where the barter it, um, app that we're launching in the next six months or so is
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I think it's incredible because there are so many people out there who are, you know,
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suffering pandemic job loss, but they are skilled or maybe they are liquidating their
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And so they have, again, all these assets, they need to connect to somebody somewhere
00:17:02.480
And there are a lot of people who just want to check out of the inflationary system and
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And you're giving them this opportunity now, what's the cost to entry for people who want
00:17:15.680
to get involved in this system once it's fully built out?
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So once we're not going to be charging, like on our, on our B2B side, we charge a commission,
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like a deferred sales commission for every transaction that we set up.
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Cause we do a lot of work for those businesses, uh, for the people side, it's going to be very
00:17:31.720
Uh, we're all about providing them the tools and the ability to barter and whether they
00:17:36.040
use, you know, uh, the, the digital medium of exchange in that system is going to be
00:17:40.200
called bits, you know, one bit equals one Canadian dollar for valuation purposes, whether
00:17:44.440
they choose to barter directly because they got lucky, or they just want to give something
00:17:48.260
away for free or have a coffee with somebody because they met them through the barter at
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community app, or they want to exchange within bits.
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The fact is it's just going to be a small subscription fee is likely the way we're going to go, uh,
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with that in terms of a revenue model so that we can continue to build it out and provide
00:18:04.360
Think Facebook marketplace and Kijiji, but only in a, in a, in a bartering economy, uh, with
0.99
00:18:11.480
So that's, that's kind of what's going to happen there.
00:18:13.460
You know, I really think that this addresses a real concern for a lot of Canadians who are
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worried about the imposition of social credit into our financial systems.
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You don't have to, but there are a lot of people who are feeling the real threat.
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Of their personal, political, peacefully held opinions, disconnecting them from their bank
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And I think for a lot of people, they're going to see what barter it offers and say, you know,
00:18:44.460
at least there, at least there, I can still exchange what I have with somebody else who
00:18:51.320
wants it without my bank account being frozen because I gave five bucks worth of coffee to
00:19:01.640
I mean, it's, uh, again, bartering is the oldest form of commerce.
00:19:06.880
Um, it's, it's, you know, these direct trades are always going to happen.
00:19:10.280
All we're doing is making it easier for people to connect in this, uh, system, in this community,
00:19:15.920
and then have this, you know, digital medium of exchange with the bits to be able to solve
00:19:21.400
And so that people can, um, can offer what they have, get those, those bits and then go
00:19:26.300
And everybody's working together in this, in this sharing economy.
00:19:30.760
Um, now what is the timeline for development of this?
00:19:35.300
Because I know you're, you're sometimes, I don't know about you, but it feels like I'm
00:19:44.760
And so you've already got barter pay up and running.
00:19:47.500
And so you've got to manage that, but what's the timeline for the build out for barter it?
00:19:52.780
So we spent a lot of time last year, uh, designing, uh, with UX UI, uh, all the screens for our
00:19:58.600
barter pay sort of, uh, app that we're going to be building out.
00:20:01.200
And that, that really is, can be transferable over to the barter it side.
00:20:04.340
So we've got a bit of a headstart on that in that aspect, but really we're in this bit
00:20:08.120
of a chicken and egg right now, no pun intended.
00:20:09.940
In fact, our technology company is called chicken and egg technology corp.
00:20:13.280
But, uh, but yeah, we're, we're, we've got, we've been approached by a lot of people in
00:20:17.260
the last month who've been hearing about, uh, barter pay and barter it, especially the
00:20:23.600
It's bigger than my team of 30 people with 150 years experience in this space.
00:20:30.060
And so we've had people making some donations just out of the blue, which is amazing.
00:20:33.760
We really thank them for that, but we're going to, we're going to open this up.
00:20:36.660
We've got people that want to invest, but the, you know, and these, the ROI
00:20:39.720
for the investors is, you know, it's more than financial gain.
00:20:42.560
It's all about, uh, they're helping build a new way of doing business, a new way of
00:20:47.280
transacting, a new way of connecting people like you've already alluded to.
00:20:52.420
And so we're, we're just deciding what we're going to do there.
00:20:55.240
Um, uh, we've got, um, uh, a lawyer, uh, in Calgary, a great lady who's, uh, working
00:20:59.920
on our shareholders agreement and some things there.
00:21:01.660
So it's, it's really just a matter of mapping that out.
00:21:03.560
We've got a call this afternoon with a, with a, an equity crowdfunding company out of BC.
00:21:07.800
And so we might go that route and allow everybody to participate that wants to sort of be
00:21:11.980
involved and which is, you know, would be amazing.
00:21:14.460
Um, so yeah, we're about to, uh, you know, I, I think, I think it's going to be about
00:21:18.280
a six month, uh, process from the time we actually get the funding that we need.
00:21:21.960
And then we can really sprint to the finish line and deliver the solution.
00:21:25.040
Uh, hopefully, you know, late spring of 2023 kind of thing.
00:21:31.780
If people want to throw some money because they're moral investors and they, they see this
00:21:37.660
sort of disconnecting from the existing financial system as a moral move, or if they're,
00:21:43.000
you know, just money motivated folks and I'm a capitalist, so I get that too.
00:21:47.600
So how do people get involved at this stage, um, in Barter It?
00:21:52.860
So the best thing to do right now is to go to the barterit.ca website, uh, www.barterit.ca.
00:22:03.320
You fill that form out so that we know we're connected.
00:22:05.860
Uh, we're then going to do all the, uh, the updates via email to that group.
00:22:10.080
There's thousands of people who are signing up and obviously there'll be much more,
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um, as we, you know, um, make the story, uh, known.
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And so it's, uh, yeah, we're excited about that.
00:22:18.440
So that's, that's step one is get on that list.
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And then from there, as we, as we map out this plan and have a concrete way to, to move
00:22:25.100
forward in terms of the investment side, then we will, um, do that through that email campaign,
00:22:31.080
And then from there, we'll just, uh, find the right partners and move forward.
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But, uh, actually if somebody wants to make a, you know, a donation, even in the short
00:22:37.900
term, uh, just down below on the screen, there's going to be an e-transfer email that you can
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So we'd be happy to take a donation, obviously, but, uh, yeah, just whatever support, uh, that
00:22:49.560
We're really, really grateful for an honor to be, to be able to serve in this way.
00:22:53.620
And I think it's wonderful because part of the rebel ethos is to do things differently
00:22:58.560
and build some success doing things as a response to the failed old ways of doing things.
00:23:06.920
And, uh, you know, you're sort of that, but also backwards.
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So you're doing something new with the economy and with transactions, but your new thing is
00:23:22.320
And I, I really appreciate that you're bringing this solution to normal people at a very low
00:23:29.180
cost to entry, because there are a lot of people struggling out there.
00:23:33.260
And I think this will help connect those people to other people who can sort of get their cash
00:23:44.960
And I really appreciate you taking the time to have me on here and, uh, look forward to
00:23:48.480
connecting with, with the audience and making sure that we, uh, we stay in touch.
00:23:55.200
I, uh, as things move along, I hope to have you back on the show because I'm very interested
00:24:01.120
I think it's going to be exceptional, quite frankly, John, thanks so much for coming on
00:24:13.260
Well, friends, we've come to the portion of the show where I take your viewer feedback.
00:24:17.080
If you'd like to send me viewer feedback, it's really easy.
00:24:19.720
First of all, leave a comment on one of our videos, wherever you might find it, either
00:24:25.200
on YouTube, but YouTube is a censorship platform.
00:24:28.360
So if you're watching us on rumble, leave a comment there.
00:24:32.360
Or if you want to send me an email directly, send it to Sheila at rebel news.com, put gun
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00:24:39.540
So it's really easy for me to find because, wow, I'm sure you realize I probably get, you
00:24:45.360
know, a couple hundred emails a day and they're hard to sift through, but if you make it easy
00:24:49.240
for me to search, it'll be easy for me to read on air.
00:24:52.500
We care about what you think about the work that we're doing.
00:24:55.220
Unlike the mainstream media, they just take your money and they want you to shut up and
00:25:04.840
And today's comments are from the YouTube comment section on my interview with Tom Harris from
00:25:12.260
the International Climate Science Coalition from last week, where Tom discussed how citizens
00:25:19.180
of Ottawa are turning up at municipal debates and absolutely hammering the local politicians
00:25:26.360
on the issue of climate change and not so much the issue of climate change, although there
00:25:31.280
are some that are questioning the science for sure.
00:25:33.600
And science should always be questioned, but they are holding these politicians to account
00:25:41.440
If they support a multi-billion dollar climate plan that will cost, by Tom's analysis, I think
00:25:50.040
it's $60,000 per citizen of Ottawa, including the babies.
00:25:56.360
Somebody should have some answers for these people when they turn up at the municipal debates.
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They should have some very good answers before they stick you with a bill that is akin to
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You know, if you want an electric car, I wouldn't advise when they don't really work in Ottawa
00:26:13.420
Anyways, Cindy White Elliott writes and says, I appreciate how you cut through the narratives
00:26:19.420
to expose the facts and the relevance of an issue.
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The experts like Tom Harris always support the truth and facts as we know them to be.
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He wants to have a civil discussion on the facts.
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Take the emotions out of it and let's talk about the facts, the science, the cost.
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The problem is the other side wants to inject emotion into everything.
00:26:50.760
They want to listen to a little Swedish girl who's mad at all the grown-ups and insists that
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And people like Tom and like our friend Michelle Sterling at Friends of Science, they say, no,
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let's have the grown-ups come into a room and we're going to talk about what we're doing,
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what we can do, if any of it is effective, if we even care if it's effective.
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And for me, what does this cost my family at the end of the day?
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For me, that's my big concern because I want to weigh the risks versus benefits.
00:27:23.140
And if handing me a $60,000 bill plus my kids a $60,000 bill for literally nothing in return,
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I don't think that's a good risk versus reward.
00:27:40.060
Carport Carl says, yes, environmentalists, the climate does change.
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We're just another variable in the grand scheme of things.
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What I disagree with is the extent to which the left environmentalists say that I've changed
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You know, they keep telling me that it's going to get warmer.
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And I keep saying, quit threatening me with a good time.
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But what I really reject here is the idea that people who live their lives inside of a cubicle
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and call a 600 square foot high rise personal coffin their home and who ride their bike everywhere
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I reject the presupposition that those people care more about the environment than me.
00:28:52.700
My livelihood depends on the health of the environment around me.
00:28:59.540
To write me off to say that I don't care about the environment because I think differently about my relationship with it is stupid and ridiculous.
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I spend more time in nature than the people who live in cities telling me that I don't care about it.
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I really, I don't care about their cubicle criticism.
00:29:26.540
Thanks to everybody in the office in Toronto and around the country who works hard to put the show together for you.
00:29:32.880
I'll see everybody back here in the same time, in the same place next week.
00:29:35.980
And remember, don't let the government tell you that you've had too much to think.