Corey Morgan s got an updated book about how to have Sovereignist conversations. He joins the show today to discuss his old, new, updated book, The Sovereignist Handbook. He joins Sheila Gunn-Reed on The Gunn Show.
00:00:06.380I'm Sheila Gunn-Reed, and you're watching The Gunn Show.
00:00:08.720i think the issue of western independence is the hottest topic in alberta right now whether you are
00:00:33.320in Alberta or outside Alberta, actually, for example, our friends in Saskatchewan, but all
00:00:38.920across the country, everybody's buzzing about the potential for Alberta to secede from Confederation.
00:00:47.280I think our separatist friends in Quebec might be jealous that we have the potential to do it
00:00:54.560before them. That is, if the courts would get out of the way, but I don't think they will in time
00:01:01.580for October 19th, but in between October 19th referendum day and now there will be lots of
00:01:09.700face-to-face conversations happening between Albertans on either side of the independence
00:01:15.520discussion. How do you have those conversations? What are the topics of those conversations and
00:01:21.960how do you have them in a convincing way? Well, my friend Corey Morgan, the columnist that you
00:01:28.180know and love over at the Western Standard and Epoch Times. And on our new little project,
00:01:33.720Alberta Fact Check joins the show today because he has updated his bestselling book, The Sovereignist
00:01:39.320Handbook, which he wrote three years ago for a more modern, not to say that three years ago is
00:01:50.900the olden days, but a lot has changed between now and then. And he joins the show today to discuss
00:01:56.840his old, new, updated book, The Sovereignty's Handbook. Take a listen.
00:02:08.880So joining me now is my friend and now co-contributor to Alberta Fact Check,
00:02:16.040Corey Morgan. Corey, I wanted to have you on the show because you are relaunching your best-selling
00:02:23.060book, The Sovereignist Handbook. Tell us first about the book and then what prompted the relaunch.
00:02:30.680Sure. I wrote the book almost three and a half years ago where I saw even then, I mean,
00:02:36.600the independence movement was really starting to gain some steam and collect some strength.
00:02:41.160And I could tell that they were organizing. But over 20 years of being in and out of independence
00:02:46.760movements and parties and things, I saw a lot of the same old mistakes were being repeated.
00:02:51.760We keep hitting against the same wall. And I figured, well, you know what, I'm going to document what I know, what I've learned and get that out there in a book form so that these advocates at least can get some degree of shared experience to go forward with this and make brand new mistakes rather than the ones I already did on their behalf.
00:03:11.220So it came out to, it's been quite successful and been well received by a lot of people.
00:03:19.080When you have a non-partisan sort of movement like this getting together, you need some guidance on how to properly campaign what you wouldn't, you know, you would normally have with a party.
00:03:28.420We just don't have that in this sort of circumstance.
00:03:30.240Now, I found your book very helpful because not only does it tell us the conversations that we probably should be having, but how to have those conversations, how to broach those conversations in, I don't want to say a non-confrontational way because I don't think that's it.
00:03:48.780But to have those conversations with people who have never thought about independence before, I found that to be very helpful. And, you know, as you say, you are doing your best to help people to avoid mistakes that you have made in the past.
00:04:04.780And you are right to say that this is a unique situation in Alberta, rather than what we see in Quebec, where there's a provincial separatist party, a federal separatist party. This is happening outside of the party movement. And I think, frankly, that works to the benefit of separatists like you and me, because we don't have those partisan disagreements about what our future should look like.
00:04:33.940Yeah, I mean, a party automatically brings a whole lot of baggage with it.
00:04:37.240You've got the internal structure to deal with.
00:04:39.300You've got, unfortunately, power structures and battles that can happen within there.
00:04:43.260Plus, you have to carry a tremendous policy set in order to be a party that you're bringing forward to win elections for.
00:04:50.360I mean, if you're an independence party alone, that's fine.
00:04:53.180But voters still want to know about health care policies.
00:04:56.700And it deletes from the focus of something that is just a subject all on its own, which is independence, which really we can't come at that with a scattered approach.
00:05:08.540You've got to come straight forward and take that issue on.
00:05:11.640And it's going to be a person to person sort of thing, which I think makes it gives it much more strength than what a party or any other group could ever give it.
00:05:44.200And, you know, all the evidence is there for us.
00:05:46.800And with time and conversations, we can bring the people over.
00:05:49.920But we've got to be a little less aggressive in the approach when it's those sorts of conversations.
00:05:54.940So I lend that kind of guidance to it within the book, because it's not necessarily as much as formal campaigning or communications, but that real one-on-one that's going to be required to bring people over.
00:06:04.740Yeah, it's the organic grassroots movement that the mainstream media is accusing of being Russian funded or American fomented. And again, pointing back to that nonpartisan point of all of this, in much of our polling data that we've done at Act for Alberta, full disclosure, I'm the point person over there.
00:06:31.840that's a third-party advertiser group, we've seen that one of the single biggest drivers
00:06:37.920of the independence conversation isn't pipelines. It's actually immigration. And that is,
00:06:46.300other polling data shows that that is a completely nonpartisan issue. As in, when you tell an NDPer
00:06:53.460what the actual immigration numbers are, even they will say, oh, hang on, that's way too much.
00:07:00.040And so, you know, when you take what we know from the independence polling and what we know from political polling data on the immigration issue, it's very clear that independence, while it is sort of living within the UCP realm a fair bit, I mean, our own polling data shows 60% of UCP voters would support independence, but the issues themselves are quite nonpartisan, including the key driving independence issue.
00:07:27.460Yeah, absolutely. You know, immigration is a subject that really hasn't been coming to the fore as much as it should be. I'm glad you guys identified that through that polling, because it is on people's minds. And it is a cross political spectrum sort of thing. As you rightly pointed out, even NDP supporters realizing mass immigration was too much. It went too far. It's caused consequences and problems. Or if you even speak to new Canadians in the immigrant community, they're saying the same thing.
00:07:55.440They came here through the rules, they're settling in, they're trying to build a future for themselves and their families, but they're realizing they can't access health care, they can't get into good schools, or they're busing their kids a long ways because we've just had such an influx, plus some of the cultural issues with a large number of immigrants from very culturally incompatible nations that we can absorb a degree of, but when it comes massively again, it makes it much more difficult.0.99
00:08:22.860Well, this is an issue that I think the independence movement actually needs to focus much more on, because how else are we going to escape this mess? The federal government just offers a lip service and they aren't doing anything to bring this under control. Independence is one of the ways that that could be accomplished.0.97
00:08:37.940so now that we've talked a little bit about the independence issue and uh what was in the first
00:08:45.500iteration of your book what has prompted this um it's not a rewrite it's an update to your book
00:08:53.180why now it's because so much has changed in this last three and a half years even since i wrote it
00:08:59.000so the core principles on how to promote independence and get involved and everything
00:09:02.700Those haven't changed. And that remains within the book. But I did realize, for one, I added a large chapter, for example, just on door knocking, because it's clear this this campaign, whenever it fully comes formally, that's how it's going to have to be won is door by door, person by person.
00:09:18.640And that's an activity that is very difficult to coordinate without a party at the head of it.
00:09:25.560I wanted to bring more context in as to how we got here, just some of the events and happenings that came about in this last year, because it's just been tumultuous.
00:09:35.260I mean, some of the things with the court ruling recently and other aspects, those just broke within the last few days.
00:09:43.020I'm already saying, geez, those would really go well within that book, too.
00:09:45.400But I'd be writing forever if I'm trying to keep it constantly up to date.
00:09:48.000But it really knocked the dust off. It brought some of the more contemporary issues into it and the focus on how a referendum is going to look and how it's been developing so that people can focus even more effectively on that.
00:10:01.760So it'll be a much more useful guide for people reading that book now than it was even three years ago.
00:10:07.340Now, I want to talk to you a little bit about that court ruling where several First Nations, however, not all, including the activist anti-oil chief Alan Adam, were able to have the referendum on secession sort of put on ice, claiming that they weren't properly consulted.
00:10:31.140The provincial government is going to appeal, which has resulted in Daniel Smith, an avowed federalist, being called a separatist for, I suppose, respecting the voting rights of Albertans.
00:10:43.880Well, although our government does support Alberta remaining in Canada, we think that today's decision by the court will deny opportunity to well over 300,000 Albertans to have their petition verified by Elections Alberta.
00:10:57.080we think that this decision is incorrect in law and anti-democratic and we will be appealing it
00:11:04.860as a result our cabinet and caucus will of course be meeting in the next couple of days
00:11:09.860to discuss the full context and make some decisions after we've had a chance to talk it through
00:11:14.660i want you i'm going to ask you to speculate how do you think this is all going to play out
00:11:19.640is a superior court going to hear this and say that's crazy citizens don't have the responsibility
00:11:26.360to consult with First Nations that kicks in after the vote with the government?
00:13:41.300Let's schedule it and get it on there.
00:13:43.160The other one isn't dead, but now we've got to wait for the courts to deal with all of that.
00:13:47.420In the meantime, everybody, if you want to campaign on this particular issue, thank Mr. Lukaszek and get out there and work on getting your voice to one side or another on it.
00:13:56.380And it's been quite funny to watch Lukaszek squirming on this and just outright denying that he wanted to trigger a referendum.
00:14:04.340He signed a document literally saying he wants to trigger a referendum.
00:14:09.360He did videos back then saying he wanted to have a referendum.
00:14:14.940I don't know how he feels he can just keep being contrary to his own actions.
00:14:19.160I guess just hoping everybody forgets, but we're not going to let him forget.
00:14:39.360You and I get up very early in the morning and then we get working to see what misinformation has been peddled in the mainstream media or by federalists or by activist chiefs or by columnists.
00:14:54.520And we do our best to debunk these people and not in a partisan way again, but just strictly please the facts.
00:15:05.220And I believe the facts, you know, the the arc of facts bend towards independence and the arc of facts generally bend towards small government and personal responsibility.
00:15:17.560And so we do that every single day. You do a handful. I do a handful.
00:15:23.880Tell me why. Look, I know why I wanted to get involved, but you tell me why you wanted to get involved.
00:15:28.960Well, just as approached with it, probably similar reasons.
00:15:31.400I mean, we've seen the opposition playing kind of, as I mentioned with Lukasik, just so loose with the truth, and they're not being countered by legacy media whatsoever.
00:15:41.140I mean, Lukasik won't speak to the Western Standard where I'm working, and I doubt he's giving you guys any direct time, but he speaks to other interviewers.
00:15:50.120And none of them have at least called him out and said, well, wait a minute.
00:15:53.300You know, you said this a little while ago.
00:15:56.620It doesn't mean they have to be in attack mode, but they should fact check these obvious mistruths.
00:16:01.660And as long as he's getting away with it, we know that opponents to independents are going to do more.
00:16:06.240And we've been doing this, what, barely a week yet.
00:16:09.040And there's been no shortage of outright misinformation to counter that's out there.
00:16:14.900And hopefully it provides a service when these opponents to independents are making their statements or thinking about making their statements.
00:16:22.040They've got to remember, well, wait a minute, there's actually people dedicated to putting time in, to checking on these things, and they will call BS on me if I put it out there.
00:16:30.860So maybe I'll reconsider what I was going to say.
00:16:32.980So I think it's performing a very important service.
00:16:35.640I sure hope so, because it's a god-awful hour to get up.
00:16:40.900Just so everybody at home knows, it's five that we get up and we start working on these things outside of all of our other things that we do.
00:16:48.720myself at Rebel News over at the Independent Press Gallery at Act for Alberta, you over at
00:16:54.100Epoch Times and Western Standard, and then on your own YouTube channel. But I think this is important
00:16:59.580because the lies are going completely unchallenged. And as much as it should serve as a gut check to
00:17:05.900the liars, I hope to create a war chest, a bit of an encyclopedia for the independence movement,
00:17:15.600so that when they are at the door and they are, you know, being countered by people in, you know,
00:17:21.980in the most gentle of ways that, you know, Thomas Lukasik really didn't mean to do this.
00:17:54.420You know, getting in their face again doesn't help.
00:17:56.440But if you can gently point out, well, no, actually, this misconception you're holding came about because of this that was said here.
00:18:03.860But it has been determined that that just wasn't the truth.
00:18:06.580And arming those advocates further with that sort of reference, it will provide a resource.
00:18:13.500Yeah, it's a building thing. We're not just hitting issues as they come. They're staying on there. The Internet's forever. And it takes the bullets out of those Federalist guns.
00:18:22.700One of the most shocking things that we found through our Act for Alberta polling is something that we've used multiple times in our Alberta fact check project is that 46 north of 46 percent of Indigenous people who responded to our poll of 3000 people, which we hired Main Street to do.
00:18:45.700So we wanted a pollster that does work for all sides.
00:18:51.940It would give us the numbers straight.
00:18:55.240Main Street found that 46% of Indigenous people right now, without any convincing, would vote for independence tomorrow.
00:19:04.540And, you know, we the mainstream media peddles this as a monolith of Indigenous people who are fundamentally opposed to independence.
00:19:15.520But it's not true. It's just the chiefs who want to maintain the status quo because they benefit from the status quo.
00:19:22.720And apparently their own people and the votes of their own people be damned.
00:19:30.600I think the work that we're doing to give those people a voice as they're being roughshod, run over by their own leadership, I think is really important.
00:19:40.600oh yeah that was a fantastic and unexpected i was kind of floored when i saw that come through too
00:19:46.220but i saw the the amount of people you guys polled and what came in i mean this is a
00:19:50.100significant number it's not an outlier there and that might help encourage it i mean if anybody's
00:19:56.580being served poorly by the status quo it's indigenous members on the ground in the reserves
00:20:00.540they're having a terrible time all we hear from are these chiefs and activists and lawyers and
00:20:05.360bureaucrats but not the people living in there but in a poll we did hear from the people living in
00:20:10.120there and maybe a few more if they're watching alternative sources of news because that's the
00:20:14.280only way i could feel that they would start supporting this sort of thing they're going
00:20:17.720to see that sort of polling them and realize you know what maybe my neighbors weren't all
00:20:20.760necessarily against this maybe we should have some conversations and uh that sort of you know
00:20:26.440to see a budding movement coming out from the indigenous communities would be magnificent to
00:20:32.000see and you can see some of the response that hysteria from one of the in the legislature from
00:20:36.840one of the MLAs in denial of your polling results shows that the Federalists realize what a weak
00:20:41.860spot they have there. And if you guys hadn't have done that poll, I have to admit, I never would
00:20:45.840have estimated that there was such support hiding out there on those reserves. So I can understand
00:20:49.300why it's there. Yeah, it shocked me. But if anybody should be upset with the federal government
00:20:54.920and their paternalistic ways, it should be the Indigenous people. And, you know,
00:21:02.100So shame on the chiefs for disenfranchising them, for not giving them the ability to vote.
00:21:08.000And as my friend Tamara Leach says, she has never been once consulted as a member of the Métis Nation.
00:21:14.220She's never been once even asked what her viewpoint is on this by the leadership of the Métis Nation.
00:21:21.540So I'm happy to say we might be the first people who did that.
00:21:26.100I hope that a lot of them appreciate that there was a different, you know, somebody representing that segment of their voices.
00:21:31.840It's got to be frustrated. I mean, the chiefs have been acting as gatekeepers.
00:21:35.340It's difficult to find out what is happening within those reserves.
00:21:38.360You can't even go on to them without risking a trespass charge if you want to speak to people.
00:21:43.060So with a dial and polling method to find out, wait a minute, there's different views there than what these gatekeepers of information and control, you know, through the chiefs have been letting people know in general.
00:21:55.320And I hope a lot of people have been chewing on that and thinking about it.
00:21:58.780it helps change the perspective of both on the reserve and off, I think, for people on this
00:22:04.040whole issue. Yeah, as Ezra pointed out, if an independence vote happened and only Indigenous
00:22:12.920people were allowed to vote, we just might win. Yeah, that of all identifiable groups is actually0.73
00:22:20.200the strongest level of support across the board. That was astounding. And again, though, once you
00:22:26.000got that reality check and you start to think about it and you realize no it does make sense
00:22:30.160actually it makes perfect sense if you're in that condition and you see a potential lifeline to
00:22:34.960really just finally shake and break that system up to make something better you're going to reach
00:22:40.420out and and uh look at something you know which would be considered a radical change like
00:22:44.220independence it makes perfect sense in hindsight now cory before i let you go because i know you've
00:22:50.300got a real job and I've got many, many real jobs as well. Tell people how they can get a new copy
00:22:57.220of your book. Even if you have the old copy, get the new copy, get the relaunch because it's full
00:23:02.680of new stuff. It's available now. Tell people how they can get that and then do tell people where
00:23:09.520they can find you because you're in many, many places doing a lot of work. Yeah, I'm all over
00:23:13.860the place. But yes, SovereignTistHandbook.com. It's up there. That'll take you straight to the
00:23:18.120amazon site it's there and digital and hard hardcover and and paperback uh for those who
00:23:24.480already have a copy it's a it's a worthwhile update i mean the old copy isn't out of date
00:23:28.020you can still give that to a friend and maybe buy a new one for their friend as well uh as far as me
00:23:33.240i'm on westernstandard.news i have a youtube channel if you search cory morgan i write a
00:23:38.460column for the epic times and of course on x if you really want to have a an exchange it's
00:23:44.500Cory B. Morgan. And I tend to be pretty responsive there. And albertafactcheck.com.
00:23:51.060Oh, of course. This is so many spots I'm popping up on. And yes, albertafactcheck.com. And watch
00:23:57.840that X account. It's been really good at putting those out there as soon as they break.
00:24:01.940Yes. And maybe a suggestion to people who already have a copy of your book,
00:24:07.560put it in the little free libraries and then get a new one.