Rebel News Podcast - SHEILA GUNN REID ｜ Life lessons learned from the hard-knock world of professional wrestling

00:00:00.000 What can professional wrestling teach you about life?

00:00:03.080 Well, today we're going to find out, and we're going to find out from a former professional wrestler.

00:00:07.780 I'm Sheila Gunn-Reed, and you're watching The Gunn Show.

00:00:30.000 The Gunn Show

00:01:00.000 You know there's a mantra out there that sends a shiver down my spine every time I hear it

00:01:21.080 because it is so sinister, because it's cruelty cloaked as kindness.

00:01:25.460 It's one of those personal affirmations that you hear all the time,

00:01:28.180 so you don't pay attention to the message.

00:01:30.620 It's that positive, sloganeering background noise of Facebook.

00:01:36.840 The phrase is, you're perfect, just the way you are.

00:01:41.020 I hate that phrase.

00:01:43.040 Sure, of course, don't dislike yourself.

00:01:45.720 But I think it's important for people to realize that they are a work in progress,

00:01:49.360 that they should always strive to be better tomorrow than they were today,

00:01:54.360 to achieve more, to achieve their full potential.

00:01:57.600 And I think if you're one of those people who thinks, actually, no, I'm fine just how I am,

00:02:01.740 I think you're damning yourself to not being the best version of yourself that you can be.

00:02:06.580 And that's what I want for everybody.

00:02:08.700 So when I hear about someone who's advocating for personal development

00:02:11.780 through personal responsibility and putting in the hard work, boy, I'm ready to listen.

00:02:16.640 And I'm even more ready to listen when that message is told in a really interesting way,

00:02:23.220 in a way that I find particularly appealing.

00:02:26.380 I'm talking about wrestling.

00:02:27.940 But friends, even if you're not a wrestling fan, I think you're really going to like today's show.

00:02:32.720 I'm talking to BC-based author and former professional wrestler Ben Nelson Creed.

00:02:38.500 He's the author of a few books, but the one we're talking about today is called 12 Pro Wrestling Rules for Life.

00:02:44.240 I'll include a link in the show notes to the book in case you're interested.

00:02:49.020 It's a take on Jordan Peterson's 12 Rules for Life,

00:02:52.020 but it's all done through Ben's fun professional wrestling worldview.

00:02:57.840 So we're talking about that and what inspired the book,

00:03:00.140 but we're also talking about how professional wrestling seems to be surviving woke culture so far,

00:03:07.240 and I might be speaking too soon.

00:03:09.160 And we're also talking about how a former professional wrestler like Ben

00:03:13.060 ended up as a teacher.

00:03:15.480 It's a really interesting story.

00:03:17.080 Take a listen.

00:03:24.680 So joining me now is author, wrestler, and teacher Ben Nelson.

00:03:29.000 Ben, thanks for coming on the show.

00:03:30.440 We have a mutual friend, my producer of my show.

00:03:34.040 Jesse actually knows you,

00:03:35.540 and he sort of suggested that maybe you would be kind of a cool guy to talk to.

00:03:39.240 Now, you've written a book.

00:03:41.440 Tell me about your book.

00:03:43.080 I've written a book titled 12 Pro Wrestling Rules for Life.

00:03:46.920 The sort of buzzword or the catchphrase being get a headlock on life.

00:03:51.840 But it's a professional wrestling.

00:03:53.400 It's a take on professional wrestling as not just, you know,

00:03:56.760 two guys in spandex beating each other up or two women in spandex beating each other up,

00:04:00.440 but actually valuable life lessons and valuable life instruction from an art form

00:04:06.360 that really reflects what society is and what culture is and some pretty impressive,

00:04:11.180 if you look at the track record values of what wrestlers entail and what they actually bring to the table

00:04:16.880 of the world of entertainment, but also personal life experience.

00:04:20.480 And you're not just a casual wrestling observer fan, 80s wrestling aficionado like I am.

00:04:28.000 You're an actual wrestler.

00:04:29.540 Tell me a little bit about your history as a professional wrestler.

00:04:33.240 Yeah.

00:04:33.520 Well, I am an 80s aficionado too.

00:04:36.120 I think that the book focuses mostly 80s and 90s because I think that was the golden era.

00:04:40.180 But having said that, I did start wrestling in 1999.

00:04:46.440 So I don't know if I look like I could still wrestle.

00:04:49.060 I haven't wrestled in about three years.

00:04:51.180 And it's not that I'm retired.

00:04:52.840 I just haven't really been interested in doing it.

00:04:55.060 Ric Flair just came back.

00:04:56.520 There's hope for all of us.

00:04:58.740 Yeah.

00:04:59.200 What is he?

00:04:59.580 70?

00:05:00.100 73?

00:05:00.800 Is that what it was?

00:05:01.520 He's old.

00:05:02.060 Yeah.

00:05:02.540 I can always hope.

00:05:03.420 And there was a wrestler from Britain, Johnny Saint.

00:05:05.520 I think he was wrestling well into his 70s.

00:05:07.320 Wrestling well, well into his 70s.

00:05:10.180 He was still an amazing wrestler at 70 years of age.

00:05:12.500 But I trained in 1999.

00:05:14.220 And this was pre-internet.

00:05:15.100 I found the Hart Brothers School of Professional Wrestling in Cambridge, Ontario, which actually

00:05:20.180 was founded by a Hart Brother who left.

00:05:23.360 But the person behind managed to hang on to the name.

00:05:27.320 And so he broadcasted as a Hart Brothers School of Professional Wrestling.

00:05:30.700 So there were people literally from around the world going into this school.

00:05:34.200 And it turned out to be a big con and a big scam.

00:05:36.360 And that's actually what my first wrestling book was about.

00:05:38.780 But it was also, you know, best of times.

00:05:41.040 It was the worst of times.

00:05:42.320 It was fantastic.

00:05:43.420 The people that I grew to be friends with from there are still the people that came to

00:05:46.620 my wedding.

00:05:47.160 They're still the people that I talk to on a regular basis.

00:05:49.720 If we have a life crisis, we're still the support group that we grow, where we turn to,

00:05:55.340 you know.

00:05:55.520 And so I suppose that's kind of the camaraderie and the deep value of friendship.

00:06:00.920 And like one of the rules is pick your friends carefully or choose your friends carefully.

00:06:06.360 That's one of the values.

00:06:07.860 I think people write off about professional wrestling, which I put into the book.

00:06:11.500 But yeah, I trained out there in 1999.

00:06:14.440 And then I wrestled maybe six months in Ontario, came back to BC, went back to Ontario, came

00:06:20.020 back to BC, broke my leg really badly, got back into wrestling a few years later, traveled

00:06:24.520 around, had some moderate success.

00:06:26.220 I was getting flown around with the NWA in the United States for a while.

00:06:31.120 And I was wrestling as the Nelson Creed.

00:06:34.060 And then after that ended, I was really more interested in pursuing my interest in wrestling

00:06:38.980 and my own persona.

00:06:40.480 And that ties into the book because I wrestled as the battling bard, Nelson Creed. 0.99

00:06:44.580 And so I was a Shakespearean aficionado, a thespian.

00:06:47.840 And I would come to the ring with a cape and a book on Shakespeare, which I wrote as well,

00:06:51.200 called What Would Shakespeare Say?

00:06:52.900 And I would try and force people to read the book. 0.95

00:06:55.000 And I would call, you know, it was ridiculous. 0.53

00:06:57.400 But I love it.

00:06:57.640 I'm laughing because Ezra Levant always forces me to listen to him read Shakespeare when I'm

00:07:03.140 stuck in the car with him.

00:07:04.520 Oh, really?

00:07:05.500 All the time.

00:07:06.420 And so I can relate to the psychological terror that you inflicted on people.

00:07:11.180 Yeah.

00:07:12.300 Terror, terror.

00:07:13.340 But people don't want to take their medicine.

00:07:15.420 You know, that's what I would say to you.

00:07:16.920 You don't know what's good for you kind of thing.

00:07:18.840 Yeah, that's interesting.

00:07:20.120 Well, maybe I'll pin him down and we can read some Shakespeare together sometime and do a play.

00:07:24.540 Yeah, that was it.

00:07:25.440 So I wrestled as a battling bard from about 2007 to 2018. 0.93

00:07:31.820 And I really enjoyed it.

00:07:32.600 And I felt like that's where I had my most success.

00:07:34.800 And that's what I enjoyed in wrestling the most was just taking something kind of zany,

00:07:38.480 kind of funny, kind of different, mashing it into wrestling and calling it a persona.

00:07:43.160 And, you know, yelling huzzah and calling for encores and all, you know, calling people

00:07:47.520 crusty botches of human nature and telling, you know, asking to go crush a cup of wine. 0.55

00:07:53.860 Like, just all these silly quotes from Shakespeare, throwing them into the rig.

00:07:57.100 And I did get my WWE auditions with that.

00:08:02.460 But I feel like the big reward was I enjoyed doing what I did.

00:08:06.680 And I had a lot of fun at local level.

00:08:08.860 That's where I met Jesse.

00:08:10.540 And I feel like the, you know, you want to stroke our own egos.

00:08:13.180 But I feel like the fans enjoyed it more because it was different. 0.99

00:08:15.240 It was kind of stupid, but it was also kind of intelligent. 0.98

00:08:17.100 And it was just a different take on pro wrestling. 1.00

00:08:19.620 So that was my wrestling story.

00:08:21.740 Yeah.

00:08:22.500 You don't have to convince me.

00:08:24.060 I love local wrestling.

00:08:25.680 I love it.

00:08:27.520 Really?

00:08:28.140 Have you been?

00:08:29.000 Yeah.

00:08:29.500 Go ahead.

00:08:30.280 Yeah.

00:08:30.400 Have you been to lots of the shows then?

00:08:32.000 Yeah.

00:08:32.460 And, you know, the Hart family has a new wrestling promotion in Calgary, Dungeon Wrestling,

00:08:37.780 which is great.

00:08:39.040 And the, I think it's the RCW.

00:08:42.000 They do smaller local wrestling promotions and the cheesier, the better.

00:08:48.240 The cheesier, the better.

00:08:49.240 Yeah.

00:08:49.620 We've come to appreciate wrestling for what it is, right?

00:08:52.220 Yeah.

00:08:52.740 It's meant to be hammy.

00:08:54.280 But it's also like there's some truth in that ham, right?

00:08:57.240 Yeah.

00:08:57.440 It's funny you mentioned.

00:08:58.400 Go ahead.

00:08:59.200 No, no.

00:08:59.680 Yeah.

00:08:59.820 It's funny you mentioned the Hart.

00:09:01.920 I wrestle a lot with actually, well, a fair bit with Harry Smith, David Boy Smith's son,

00:09:07.620 and TJ Wilson, who was Tyson Kidd in the WWE as well.

00:09:10.900 And they're a tremendous wrestling family.

00:09:12.820 And the passion for the business was always evident, right?

00:09:15.520 It's always clear with them.

00:09:16.800 So, yeah.

00:09:17.980 Now, your love of the written word, that's not just a wrestling gimmick.

00:09:24.560 You're a teacher.

00:09:25.920 And so I'm sort of fascinated by the trajectory of someone who is in professional wrestling

00:09:32.540 and then ends up as a teacher.

00:09:33.920 How did that happen?

00:09:35.240 Yeah.

00:09:35.600 Oh, boy.

00:09:36.440 I don't know if it was before or after, but I read Tito Santana as a teacher as well.

00:09:40.900 Yeah.

00:09:41.200 You know, he retired from wrestling.

00:09:42.240 He's a teacher.

00:09:43.480 So, but for me, it was always, yeah, it was always an interesting passion.

00:09:47.740 And even when I was first wrestling, I wanted to do the battling bar gimmick, and I just

00:09:52.340 didn't have the confidence to put it forward.

00:09:54.300 But I've always loved English.

00:09:55.420 And I always thought, you know, unless you're Ric Flair, you can't wrestle forever, you know?

00:10:02.520 And so it was the natural thing.

00:10:04.060 It was always my other passion in life, literature, Shakespeare, writing, reading.

00:10:08.960 And so it was a natural transition.

00:10:10.580 While I was doing my wrestling, I was also completing my education.

00:10:14.060 I went to Simon Fraser in Vancouver and completed my education, or my English major, philosophy

00:10:20.660 minor, and then a post-diploma program in education there.

00:10:23.640 And it was, it was interesting.

00:10:26.280 It's funny, though.

00:10:26.840 I tried to hide it from students, or I did for a long time, because it was just so distracting.

00:10:31.320 You know, the guys, whoa, you were a wrestler while I was all four.

00:10:33.360 Let me show you how real it is.

00:10:34.500 And they would just start wrestling and start trying to beat each other up. 0.69

00:10:36.940 And it was just such a big can of worms.

00:10:39.580 I loved engaging students with it, but I also, I don't know if this is what I should be telling

00:10:45.360 you, because you're going to start trying to wrestle each other in front of me and getting 1.00

00:10:48.660 me to grade it.

00:10:49.340 And that's not a good, there's no good outcome, right?

00:10:51.740 There's no good outcome.

00:10:53.480 I can't, I can't tell you that I would have acted any differently than those children.

00:11:00.500 Now, now, you know, before we get into your book, cause I'm just, I love having a, someone

00:11:06.820 who's been on the inside of wrestling and I get to pick your brain a little bit because

00:11:10.500 I'm always interested in the, in how this testosterone charged industry, this entertainment

00:11:19.320 manages to be so resilient so far to woke culture and the, these attacks on masculinity and traditional

00:11:32.420 masculinity as though it's some sort of toxic influence on society.

00:11:36.760 You don't see, like you see it, or it's creeping hard into hockey lately.

00:11:42.360 Oh yeah.

00:11:43.360 You know, but so far wrestling seems to be not, not completely impermeated, but it's, it's

00:11:52.820 doing well.

00:11:55.740 Careful what you say.

00:11:57.240 I know.

00:11:57.860 I know.

00:11:58.340 Are they going to dive on it now or the social justice warrior is going to attack it? 0.99

00:12:02.120 Um, yeah, yeah, I never, uh, I've never noticed that before, but you're, you're, you're right.

00:12:08.220 As I think about that, um, I think part of it, like wrestling did do, did do itself a service

00:12:16.640 in that there were, even back in the day, there were quite a few gay wrestlers, you know?

00:12:20.640 And so that kind of, I think they've been like, there's a, there's a blatant homo eroticism 1.00

00:12:26.040 in wrestling to begin with.

00:12:28.020 Yeah.

00:12:28.320 Let's all, none of us can forget gold dust.

00:12:30.900 Yeah.

00:12:31.720 Yeah.

00:12:32.560 Yeah.

00:12:32.840 Gold dust or Adrian Adonis, one of my favorites, you know?

00:12:36.320 Um, but then you go like, you know, Pat Patterson, I don't know if you know, he was, 0.82

00:12:40.960 he was, he was a homosexual too. 0.69

00:12:42.380 Right.

00:12:42.540 And so I think that there was this thing in the business where it was, I don't know,

00:12:49.180 it was kind of like respected and acknowledged, but not.

00:12:52.660 And it was really interesting too, because I was friends with Chris Canyon, who was big

00:12:56.220 in WCW and, you know, we didn't know that he was, I wasn't in WCW, it was just, he helped

00:13:00.160 us do a movie, uh, back in 99 at the wrestling school.

00:13:03.200 And I didn't know he was gay.

00:13:04.560 And I remember joking about something to do with it.

00:13:08.280 Oh, you know, like someone's not so macho if they do something or, you know, people

00:13:11.280 start to talk and say, what do you mean by that?

00:13:13.680 And so I wonder, you know?

00:13:15.600 Um, so there were, I think that the people like that, that were in the business,

00:13:22.180 like Canyon rest in peace, bless his soul.

00:13:24.420 I think that they kind of took a bit of a brunt of it.

00:13:26.560 And so the business itself, while it hasn't been attacked by world culture, I think the

00:13:30.400 business kind of went after itself earlier, you know, and there's Orlando, Jordan, and

00:13:34.340 a few other wrestlers who push that button hard and also, um, or push the reality out

00:13:39.900 there.

00:13:40.100 And I think that probably about mid nineties after Goldust was gone, I think that it was

00:13:46.300 sort of realized, and especially with Canyon, you know, that it wasn't, uh, it wasn't fodder.

00:13:52.080 Homosexuality and stuff wasn't fodder for ridicule, you know, but that's very different from woke

00:13:58.340 culture.

00:13:59.260 And I don't know why woke culture, maybe it's because wrestling is a parody of reality already.

00:14:05.220 Maybe.

00:14:05.500 I'm sure we're going to see a woke culture angle in it.

00:14:08.760 And you know what there was, right?

00:14:09.940 Uh, what was it?

00:14:11.080 Right to censor way back, like nine, uh, late nineties, right?

00:14:15.740 Yeah.

00:14:16.120 Venus and ivory and the good father who was the guy with a good, it was a funny gimmick and

00:14:23.720 they were poking fun of it.

00:14:25.080 So maybe, I don't know, maybe it's the world culture realizes if we make fun of wrestling,

00:14:30.820 wrestling will make more fun of us going back.

00:14:33.200 I don't know.

00:14:33.680 I don't think so, but that's a really interesting question.

00:14:37.080 I haven't got an answer for why it hasn't happened other than wrestling is just all a

00:14:41.620 huge parody.

00:14:42.800 And I'm sure it'll be an angle.

00:14:43.860 Like after, um, after Trump won his first election, I don't know if you heard of, there

00:14:48.940 was a wrestler and he was, what was he called?

00:14:51.140 But he would come out wearing like a Hillary Clinton singlet or something.

00:14:53.860 He was like the leftist wrestler.

00:14:55.960 It was in, it was, uh, in Southeastern States, but there was, that was his gimmick.

00:15:01.400 So maybe it's just, well, it's all, um, but you know, I do have to say this.

00:15:05.240 I do know a local wrestler who used to wrestle in Seattle and right or wrong, he had Pepe the

00:15:09.880 Frog on his tights.

00:15:10.820 And I think it was right.

00:15:12.200 I think it was right.

00:15:13.160 Cause I believe in free speech and I believe that, well, he's out there playing a persona

00:15:17.260 to sort of make you think about what he's doing.

00:15:19.380 Uh, but it got to the point where people in the, in the audience would organize themselves

00:15:23.980 to walk out during his matches as a form of protest against his wrestling and his persona.

00:15:29.760 And I knew the guy and like, he was a good friend of mine.

00:15:32.540 And you know, they were always accusing him of being racist and being homophobic.

00:15:35.880 And those are both so completely far from the truth.

00:15:37.900 You know, I mean, he was in Vancouver.

00:15:39.860 He had an Indian girlfriend.

00:15:40.820 He got along with her family fantastically.

00:15:42.760 He really respected their culture.

00:15:44.160 He had a lot of gay friends.

00:15:45.800 He didn't care, but it was just that perception.

00:15:48.000 So I have seen that small scale.

00:15:49.580 I haven't seen a large scale.

00:15:51.740 And I hope we don't.

00:15:52.840 I hope we don't.

00:15:53.200 I hope we don't either.

00:15:54.940 I think, you know, it's, it's hard to make fun of somebody or pick on somebody who picks

00:16:00.320 on themselves.

00:16:01.400 I think maybe that's part of it too.

00:16:03.260 And also this is, uh, it is a performance art, right?

00:16:06.980 Like as much as you see woke culture sort of sneaking in, sneaking in, rushing in like

00:16:12.520 a tsunami into Hollywood.

00:16:14.980 Um, this is kind of the opposite where, um, you know, they, they make fun of themselves,

00:16:20.220 but they're also, as you say, it's a bit of an industry based on free speech.

00:16:24.000 You get to be the character you want and your character is over the top.

00:16:27.540 And so I guess it's, it's hard to enforce like certain cultural, social rules that everybody

00:16:34.000 think polite that should exist in polite society.

00:16:36.940 It's kind of hard to overlay that onto wrestling.

00:16:40.020 And I hope it, I hope it never changes.

00:16:42.520 Yeah.

00:16:43.180 Yeah.

00:16:43.380 Wrestling is, yeah.

00:16:44.840 Yeah.

00:16:45.040 Hard to overlay it.

00:16:45.800 And it's sort of the function of wrestling.

00:16:47.640 It's a, it's a morality play.

00:16:50.420 And it's also a status play.

00:16:51.780 You know, it's like, it really is about status and performance and what the perception is.

00:16:56.100 So I don't know.

00:16:59.500 I feel like it's going to be done, but it's hard to do it in a way that wrestling wouldn't

00:17:03.600 already poke fun of itself too.

00:17:05.000 And that's, I mean, that's why it is too, because at this stage that, you know, as we've

00:17:08.340 like in the eighties, it was all serious and this is take it real.

00:17:11.580 And then the nineties, they said, well, we're not going to be condescending.

00:17:14.500 And it went through that hardcore phase.

00:17:16.140 And now it's at the point where the wrestling that you used to see small time, local, ridiculous

00:17:21.080 wrestling, like a local wrestler promoter passed away just a couple of weeks back, but

00:17:25.360 he had like the most ridiculous gimmicks you've ever heard, the magic dragons, you know, and 0.72

00:17:30.880 there's these two full guys, fully grown men in these ridiculous cloth dragon costumes. 0.92

00:17:36.140 And this was like mid nineties. 0.63

00:17:37.480 It was ridiculous, but that sort of stuff has now reached the highest level of wrestling.

00:17:43.180 And so all the way down, it's okay to make fun of everything and anything.

00:17:47.240 So I think because it's, it's a self-acknowledged farce, maybe it's not getting picked on and

00:17:51.920 maybe it won't be picked on.

00:17:53.420 I don't know.

00:17:54.080 And I think, I think the, the heckle culture around wrestling sort of makes it hard to be

00:18:00.760 a little bit woke.

00:18:01.600 Cause, um, I don't want to toot my own horn, but I was born to heckle.

00:18:05.560 I love heckling.

00:18:08.120 Um, but you know, I heckle with the deepest love.

00:18:12.100 And so you sort of get it out of your system where it's like, you can't say this, you can't

00:18:16.140 say that you have to behave and follow all these rules all week long.

00:18:19.280 And then you go to see the wrestling show at the Legion and you're just like letting everybody

00:18:24.140 have it.

00:18:24.760 So maybe it's that pressure valve that you need to let off in society.

00:18:28.800 Yeah.

00:18:29.220 It blows off a lot of steam.

00:18:30.780 Yeah.

00:18:31.060 It's an interesting mirror too.

00:18:32.340 Cause you know, like who you're heckling, isn't really the person that you're heckling

00:18:36.800 a persona, not the person.

00:18:38.040 So I was like, yeah, I don't know if you're playing a role too, as a fan.

00:18:42.060 I always thought that was an interesting thing, right?

00:18:43.680 The fans play a role.

00:18:44.600 They're in on it and we're all kind of play acting, pretending goofing around, but we're

00:18:48.020 having a really good time doing it.

00:18:49.560 Yeah.

00:18:50.140 So yeah, maybe that keeps it from being too serious for anyone.

00:18:53.980 I don't know.

00:18:54.640 Yeah.

00:18:54.780 I don't honestly believe that I'm heckling a real.

00:18:58.080 Oh no.

00:18:58.640 We cry when we get home.

00:18:59.820 A real Australian.

00:19:01.020 You've ruined my nights.

00:19:03.240 I don't know.

00:19:03.580 People like you have ruined my weeks, actually.

00:19:07.500 I, you know, like we go home and write down, if they say this next time, I'm going to say

00:19:11.720 this.

00:19:11.900 We have a list.

00:19:13.040 I hope I see you again in your journal.

00:19:15.960 Yeah.

00:19:17.540 No, Sheila, what to say.

00:19:19.000 Yeah.

00:19:19.580 I see that black hair broad again.

00:19:22.240 Yeah.

00:19:23.360 I want to ask you about your book because that's really why I wanted to have you on the show.

00:19:26.540 And, you know, I, I often joke with my friend, David Menzies, who is also a very strong 80s

00:19:33.940 wrestling aficionado that I could write an entire master's thesis on the role that Hacksaw

00:19:39.340 Jim Duggan played in the Cold War.

00:19:40.900 Uh-huh, uh-huh, yeah, yeah.

00:19:43.780 I could.

00:19:44.260 I absolutely could.

00:19:46.280 And his role as a proud American and, and being unashamed and all of that, it was at

00:19:51.380 the right time in the right cultural atmosphere for him to be the right guy.

00:19:57.040 And he would, not only that, but his look was like regular Joe, average American.

00:20:01.280 He wasn't juiced out.

00:20:03.300 Um, he looked like your uncle who.

00:20:06.960 Yeah, big tough trucker, right?

00:20:08.460 Yeah.

00:20:08.660 Yeah.

00:20:08.900 And so he looked like middle America and he was fighting for Americans at a time when the

00:20:15.500 tensions in the Cold War were sort of, yeah, America was winning.

00:20:19.240 Although if you ask me now, I would suggest that maybe they didn't win the, the, the Cold

00:20:24.360 War march through our institutions happened while everybody wasn't paying attention.

00:20:28.040 But I, I think I could, like I said, I'm here, I'm doing it.

00:20:31.480 I'm pitching it, but, but I, I could, I could make that case.

00:20:35.400 And so I'm always interested to see somebody like you talk of, oh, I hit my microphone.

00:20:40.120 Talk about the values in wrestling, um, and how those are important cultural values.

00:20:45.600 So tell me, tell me about your book.

00:20:47.540 Okay.

00:20:48.120 Uh, yeah, did rest your first point?

00:20:50.060 Absolutely.

00:20:50.880 You could, uh, cause as I've kind of said, wrestling is,

00:20:54.360 very much a cultural mirror.

00:20:55.560 And the interesting thing is when I, I think you can also do a master's on, on the fact

00:20:59.940 that when society doesn't have its values, it's tougher to pick out the good guys and

00:21:04.560 bad guys.

00:21:05.180 It's tougher to have good wrestling, you know, cause it's all, it is really tribal, uh,

00:21:10.520 tribalism, right?

00:21:11.640 You cheer for someone that you think reflects you and, uh, Seth Godin advertising writer,

00:21:17.500 best, uh, bestseller a couple of times.

00:21:19.360 He said, wrestling is status.

00:21:20.720 So when you're watching two guys wrestle, it's status versus status.

00:21:23.840 So you have to think if someone wins in a wrestling match, like say John Cena wins,

00:21:29.000 what is the status of his persona that makes it better for him to win than to lose?

00:21:35.520 And why are people going to endorse that by coming out and watching you?

00:21:39.000 There's, there's a, there's a real, and I don't know if it's the leader or the follower,

00:21:42.340 the indicator or the lagging indicator, but it shows something about society.

00:21:46.640 Um, and I, I guess that'd be one thing that is a bit of the book, but the, my book was,

00:21:53.020 it's 12 rules for life.

00:21:54.920 I won't go through all the rules.

00:21:56.440 Um, but the rules are very essential things.

00:21:59.700 I'll tell you one of my favorite, like the first rule is work your gimmick.

00:22:02.380 And people think like, you know, in wrestling, everyone's got to give me hacksaws gimmick.

00:22:05.280 As you brought up big burly guy, Oh, tough guy, two by four working class, rolly over, 1.00

00:22:10.820 not technical, although he could, but he didn't go technical.

00:22:13.520 He just did knock it, bang, drag it out, slug it out.

00:22:17.500 Tough guy.

00:22:18.020 Right.

00:22:18.240 And that was what the fans of the eighties appreciated.

00:22:22.100 And if you look at the action movies too, it's like Arnold was big.

00:22:25.160 Stallone was big.

00:22:26.400 Jackie Chan wasn't around.

00:22:27.760 And so they didn't, the wrestlers didn't wrestle like Jackie Chan, which they do now.

00:22:30.860 The wrestlers wrestled like you would picture Rocky, like Rocky's strategy was all as well.

00:22:35.380 I'll just try harder. 0.85

00:22:36.860 I'll just punch him harder. 0.99

00:22:38.420 Yeah. 1.00

00:22:38.800 I'll punch him harder. 0.99

00:22:39.660 What do you do? 1.00

00:22:40.180 I'll punch him harder. 1.00

00:22:41.520 Yeah. 1.00

00:22:42.060 You should be dead. 1.00

00:22:43.100 Yeah. 1.00

00:22:43.260 I'll just punch him harder. 0.99

00:22:44.080 Like, so, um, working your gimmick, right? 0.99

00:22:46.960 That was the gimmick.

00:22:47.740 And so a gimmick is, it's not necessarily a contrived performance.

00:22:52.560 It's just, what do you think?

00:22:54.000 What do you have that's original in you?

00:22:56.600 What should people know you for?

00:22:58.200 And I think if most people took a long, hard look at what is your gimmick day to day, what

00:23:03.180 are you presenting day to day?

00:23:04.600 I think most people in the world would identify their values a bit better and identify, wait

00:23:10.580 a minute, do I want to be the guy who yells at people because my coffee is two degrees too

00:23:14.660 cold?

00:23:15.020 Or do I want to be seen as the guy who's respectable and approachable and a good person?

00:23:19.260 I think that they would identify more about what makes them themselves and how they want

00:23:24.560 to establish a legacy that is that persona, that person, right?

00:23:29.440 And you know, like a Hamlet, you, um, we know what we are, not what we may be, right?

00:23:34.300 You try and grow into something.

00:23:35.660 And so wrestling, as I began wrestling as the battling bard, it was really wasn't fleshed

00:23:41.000 out.

00:23:41.140 I had an idea, but as I grew into it and did it more and more, I really recognized in

00:23:45.520 it what persona I want to portray for the fans.

00:23:48.480 And so now as a teacher and a writer and a father and a guy who's, uh, you know, I mean,

00:23:55.540 basically a libertarian, I recognize more and more what it is I want people to recognize

00:24:00.840 me for.

00:24:01.940 And it's affected.

00:24:02.840 It has really affected every aspect of my life, all those aspects.

00:24:05.580 Um, so that was the, the most, well, not the most important, but the primary, um, primary

00:24:12.460 rule, work a gimmick.

00:24:14.400 I talk about the undertaker.

00:24:15.440 Oh, it's just such a great gimmick.

00:24:16.880 Um, but then my favorite rule probably is, uh, well, you know, uh, even the odds by any

00:24:25.500 means necessary.

00:24:26.320 That's another favorite rule of mine because like Axel two by four, how many times did he

00:24:31.900 hit people with a two by four and he never did it to start the fight.

00:24:35.600 No, if the things weren't going his way and he was outnumbered, he finished the fight

00:24:38.620 with a two by four, you know, right or wrong.

00:24:40.340 Like Andre got it and the she got it. 0.67

00:24:42.600 Um, and then one interesting, uh, sort of common thread was I looked at it and said, well,

00:24:48.360 what's the story of David and Goliath, right?

00:24:50.740 I mean, if David had tried to throw on a big suit of armor and swing a sword around, he

00:24:54.960 would have been mid-speed in no time.

00:24:57.020 And so what did he go to?

00:24:58.020 And this, I did borrow a little bit from Malcolm Gladwell in one of his books, but he went to what

00:25:02.480 was good and he evened the odds by playing to his strengths and working with what worked

00:25:06.740 for him.

00:25:07.200 So even the odds by throwing rocks with a sling, which he knew how to do.

00:25:10.840 So play to your strengths, but also even the odds like, well, I'm not going to have a

00:25:14.460 good time trying to run headfirst to a giant.

00:25:16.660 Why would I do that?

00:25:17.480 I'll play it to my strengths and work it from my angle where I'm evening the odds by using

00:25:22.380 what I have at hand.

00:25:23.360 So a lot of the, the, the rules I feel all build on each other and there is a free line

00:25:27.800 in them in that they are all, and they're all reflected in wrestling.

00:25:30.440 Um, if anyone grabs a copy, I would say grab the e-copy for now because I haven't got QR

00:25:34.500 codes in the, in the paperback, but the e-copy goes to the link.

00:25:38.540 So when I'm talking about hacksaw gym nugget, or I'm talking about Jake, the snake, or I'm talking

00:25:41.460 about Steve Austin spraying an entire ring down full of beer.

00:25:44.660 Or the links are in the e-reader version.

00:25:46.980 If you're connected to the wifi where you can go in and see what I'm talking about.

00:25:50.920 And it just makes it much more, uh, a living experience.

00:25:53.440 I find a more interactive experience.

00:25:56.040 Now, now I don't want to take up too much of your time.

00:25:58.580 Cause I, I said, I would only take up 20 minutes of your time and I could talk wrestling

00:26:02.060 forever.

00:26:04.880 And I know you were talking after you're done a full work day, but, um, I wanted to ask you,

00:26:10.420 I'll ask you to pick in 2023, if you can pick one of your wrestling rules that would benefit

00:26:19.200 the most amount of people in 2023 so that they have a better year.

00:26:24.200 What is that rule?

00:26:26.060 Ooh.

00:26:27.620 Okay.

00:26:28.060 I have to thumb through the book.

00:26:29.120 This is, I got, I've, I need to, I feel like I need to just review all the rules.

00:26:33.680 Cause I remember my favorites and I'm already working on a couple of new books.

00:26:36.480 Um, it's a good question, right?

00:26:41.300 Pretty good journalist over here.

00:26:44.020 Yeah.

00:26:45.280 There's some, the book's so good.

00:26:48.000 I could know I could talk about anything.

00:26:49.500 No.

00:26:49.720 What do I, I feel like on a day to day, 2023, like where are we, you know, what are we doing?

00:26:57.860 Uh, there's so much confusion.

00:27:02.060 It's, it's hard to pick a best friend.

00:27:03.640 That's a good question.

00:27:04.540 Cause I usually have too much to say and now I can't.

00:27:06.480 I think of what to say.

00:27:07.780 It's a really good question.

00:27:08.980 So what's the rule that would help people weed through the confusion of 2023?

00:27:16.660 You know?

00:27:17.140 Yeah.

00:27:17.820 I feel like you have to just, uh, maybe I'll, I'll go with two.

00:27:23.260 Okay.

00:27:23.580 Sorry.

00:27:23.980 Cause they, they won't have to rule.

00:27:26.140 I think 11 life isn't fair.

00:27:28.120 Okay.

00:27:28.520 And I think that we're all seeing that.

00:27:31.560 And like, when you start talking about the economy and the unaccountability and the frustration

00:27:36.620 that people feel and the things that happen to us, you know, especially if, you know, depending

00:27:42.020 on your political affiliation and the bias that you get from people and perspective, I think

00:27:47.320 you have to accept life isn't fair.

00:27:48.900 And you know what?

00:27:49.780 You're just going to have to play with the hand you got that that's the honest, that's

00:27:53.000 the honest truth.

00:27:53.740 That's the end in the beginning.

00:27:55.320 And I think that actually got that quote from the princess bride, you know, the book life

00:27:59.640 isn't fair.

00:28:00.160 It's just better than death.

00:28:01.000 That's all right.

00:28:01.620 I think going into 2023, looking at how everything is panning out and how we all know, you know,

00:28:08.360 they'll deny it, but we all know we're in a recession, right?

00:28:10.620 We all know that we're suffering bad, like inflation that's at least 10%, probably higher

00:28:14.660 than what they've said.

00:28:15.560 We all know that.

00:28:17.460 So saying that, you know, life isn't fair.

00:28:21.300 Okay.

00:28:21.980 But what can you do about it?

00:28:23.000 And that's rule number 12.

00:28:24.140 You got to work hard away from the spotlight and you have to, in the black and brown terms,

00:28:27.600 not just pay your dues, but work hard on what makes you better at what you're going to do.

00:28:32.220 Work hard at what is going to lead you to success, as opposed to letting someone else

00:28:37.960 dictate it for you.

00:28:39.060 Like, I mean, be proactive, but work hard, right?

00:28:41.860 Like I had a very good friend whose career turned into a crazy, most successful, I think,

00:28:48.760 women's wrestler of all time career.

00:28:51.700 But it didn't start out that way.

00:28:53.600 It started out with a very bad injury and years off.

00:28:57.800 And even when she finally got her W.E. auditions and tryouts and spotlight at a spot to be

00:29:03.440 a wrestler, she was just getting pushed down and ignored and ignored. 1.00

00:29:07.260 And repeatedly throughout that three years of her developmental contract, there was a

00:29:12.020 matter of, okay, well, what do you do?

00:29:13.620 Do you give up and ride out and have a good time and party?

00:29:16.020 Or do you work hard on yourself away from the spotlight and hope and have faith that when

00:29:21.060 you do get your shot, when you do get your chance to leap ahead in the job or, you know,

00:29:26.520 go for the relationship you want or take off and get out of Canada, that you're ready.

00:29:32.420 When you're ready to run, you run, right?

00:29:33.940 That's it.

00:29:34.720 Be prepared, right?

00:29:35.800 Boy Scouts.

00:29:36.480 But it's still valuable.

00:29:37.920 You know, work hard away from the spotlight.

00:29:39.400 Be prepared.

00:29:40.200 And life isn't fair, but no one's going to help you with it, you know, unfortunately.

00:29:44.460 Or no, I should take that.

00:29:45.500 People will help you with it, but you have to be prepared.

00:29:47.220 And you have to accept that your chips, your cards aren't going to be the same as someone

00:29:50.880 else's.

00:29:51.640 So make the best hand of what you got.

00:29:53.700 And really, that's all you can do.

00:29:55.320 Because if you don't do that, you're going to regret it.

00:29:57.160 But if you do your best and it doesn't work, you're not going to regret it the same way.

00:30:01.520 You know, there's pride in that.

00:30:03.620 So, yeah.

00:30:04.680 Yeah, I think those are great pieces of advice.

00:30:08.900 And I think when you start to realize that life isn't fair, but you can make it better through

00:30:12.920 hard work and good choices, you sort of liberate yourself from the resentment that might creep

00:30:17.280 in because you do see life as unfair and resentment is a poison.

00:30:22.700 Ben, I want to thank you so much for taking the time.

00:30:24.740 Tell people how they can get this book.

00:30:26.860 It's available on Amazon.

00:30:28.280 Just go on Amazon.ca, type in 12 Pro Wrestling Rules for Life.

00:30:32.300 You can type in Ben Nelson Creed.

00:30:33.660 It's in there as well.

00:30:35.260 I feel like I'm going to share one thing and on the book, I think it's wonderful.

00:30:39.000 When I first went to wrestling school, we all knew wrestling wasn't real, but we found

00:30:44.220 out after for sure.

00:30:46.140 I always think of it this way, and it goes to do with working your gimmick.

00:30:49.440 Life is a work in that there's always a persona you're putting on.

00:30:53.240 You're always trying to do more.

00:30:56.240 And just remember that most people, when they're presenting themselves to you, they might be

00:31:00.000 honest, but they're also trying to present something for a, not an ulterior motive, but

00:31:06.100 for an outcome, right?

00:31:07.720 So if you walk into a room and I don't know you, and you tell me that you're the greatest

00:31:11.880 writer in the history of writing screenplays, I don't know you, so I'll take you at face

00:31:17.340 value.

00:31:18.040 So remember, you can present yourself any way you want, and people will accept that if

00:31:23.940 you can back it up a bit, you know?

00:31:25.880 But I guess maybe that's a bit of blather, not necessary.

00:31:29.960 But going back to the book, yeah, Amazon, 12 Pro Wrestling Rules for Life, it's in there,

00:31:34.380 e-reader version as well as paperback copy.

00:31:37.120 I recommend the e-reader version, but paperback copy can be had as well.

00:31:42.080 And I did also write another book called You're Going to Hurt Yourself, which was about my

00:31:46.240 time at pro wrestling school in Ontario, and my first two years in the business.

00:31:50.560 And that was a lot of fun to you.

00:31:52.360 That was the first book that I really leapt on as, yeah, this is cathartic, but also useful

00:31:57.020 for other people.

00:31:58.060 So, yeah.

00:31:58.720 Well, Ben, like I said, I want to thank you so much for taking the time.

00:32:03.240 I think you give some good advice to young people, but also just to Canadians in general,

00:32:08.340 people struggling, living through the society that we've been given over the past three years.

00:32:14.880 I'm trying not to be melancholy.

00:32:16.700 Yeah, right.

00:32:17.760 Trudeau's working at Gimmick, people.

00:32:19.220 Just remember that, right?

00:32:20.180 That's right.

00:32:20.780 Yeah.

00:32:20.960 I mean, there's a guy doing his best to put his best foot forward when he walks into

00:32:25.660 a room and until he opens his mouth.

00:32:28.720 Yeah.

00:32:29.360 Yeah.

00:32:29.600 You got to walk the walk in, talk the talk.

00:32:31.260 And I don't think he does both of those.

00:32:33.080 So anyways, or I do those probably.

00:32:34.720 But anyways, yeah.

00:32:36.000 Ben, thanks so much.

00:32:37.040 And hopefully we can have you back on the show to talk about your next project.

00:32:41.240 Okay.

00:32:41.380 That's great.

00:32:41.860 Okay.

00:32:42.500 Great.

00:32:42.780 Thank you so much.

00:32:43.380 Thanks, Ben.

00:32:44.480 Cheers.

00:32:50.960 What a fun interview, right?

00:32:54.480 This is the letters portion of the show.

00:32:57.100 It's a portion where I invite your viewer feedback.

00:32:59.980 I actually care about what you think about the work that we're doing here at Rebel News

00:33:02.720 because we live or die on your support because we don't take any money from Justin Trudeau

00:33:10.440 like the contaminated corporate media does.

00:33:14.140 It's one of the reasons I give out my email address at this portion of the show.

00:33:18.500 So if you have something to say to me, it's Sheila at rebelnews.com.

00:33:21.620 Put gun show letters in the subject line so it's easier for me to find because I do

00:33:26.560 get a lot of emails in a day and it just makes the ability to search a lot easier.

00:33:31.060 So this letter comes to me from somebody named Glenn and it's, I think, based on a couple

00:33:38.600 of shows that I did.

00:33:39.880 So I recently interviewed my friend Rick from the National Firearms Association and my friend

00:33:46.300 Chris Sims from the Canadian Taxpayers Federation talking about Trudeau's gun grab.

00:33:51.820 Rick, of course, looks at it through the lens of a gun owner and an advocate for firearms

00:33:58.820 rights.

00:33:59.280 And Chris looks at it definitely through that viewpoint, but also on behalf of Canadian

00:34:04.800 taxpayers who are going to be paid, who are, sorry, going to pay for Trudeau's gun grab

00:34:12.960 because Trudeau is banning guns, forcing people like me to turn them in.

00:34:18.620 And then he says he's going to compensate us for our guns instead of just letting us continue

00:34:22.960 to own our guns that never did anything wrong.

00:34:25.740 It's crazy.

00:34:27.160 Anyway, Glenn writes,

00:34:31.220 Hi, Sheila, I'm not sure if you're aware of the most simple shotgun that has only one

00:34:38.240 ever made as a joke is on Trudeau's ban list.

00:34:42.020 Yeah, I did see that a joke gun made it on the ban list because that's the kind of experts

00:34:46.560 making these gun bans.

00:34:48.460 They don't even know a joke gun from a real gun.

00:34:53.520 This video is from the guy that made it and wonders how Trudeau even knows about it.

00:34:59.020 And you know what?

00:34:59.760 Let's show the video right here. 0.97

00:35:01.540 So this is the butt master.

00:35:06.640 Very famous.

00:35:07.680 It's not really that famous.

00:35:09.040 So how, and this is why I used to spread my video far and wide, folks, or at least ask

00:35:14.760 your friends, people in the know, why on earth does the Canadian government know about

00:35:18.920 an NFA firearm?

00:35:20.540 That's, it's, they probably, I mean, looking at their stuff that they've banned, looks like

00:35:25.600 they went through our NFA registry and banned stuff that's American made NFA firearms.

00:35:32.200 And as far as I know, NFA, the NFA firearm list is kind of restricted.

00:35:38.560 It's, well, I always heard it was privileged tax information.

00:35:42.820 So it seems kind of like something's wrong there if a foreign government has access to

00:35:48.780 our list of NFA firearms.

00:35:50.360 So do your due diligence.

00:35:52.780 Let me know.

00:35:53.860 Let's see what the hell, or what do you think?

00:35:55.480 Let me know in the comments.

00:35:56.220 What, how on earth does Canada know about our NFA firearms?

00:35:58.620 Well, that little video was put on our radar by our new friend, Glenn Tookscherer.

00:36:05.060 Boy, Glenn, I hope I said that right.

00:36:06.540 There's a lot of C's, H's, and S's in your name.

00:36:11.500 Who tells me to keep up the good work?

00:36:13.320 Although I'm not so sure I did such great work on your name there, Glenn.

00:36:17.520 But I do appreciate the feedback and that was fun.

00:36:20.660 Well, everybody, thanks so much for watching the show.

00:36:23.640 I'll see everybody back here in the same time, in the same place next week.

00:36:26.840 And remember, as always, don't let the government tell you that you've had too much to think.

00:36:56.840 Thank you.

Rebel News Podcast - January 26, 2023

SHEILA GUNN REID ｜ Life lessons learned from the hard-knock world of professional wrestling

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript