A new book asks the question, What could Alberta be if we just thought outside the box? In this episode, Sheila Gunn-Reed talks with author and political activist Nadine Wellwood about her new book, "Out of the Box: How to Build a Free and Independent Alberta."
00:00:00.000A new book asks the question, what could Alberta be?
00:00:03.720If we just thought outside the box, I'm Sheila Gunn-Reed and you're watching The Gunn Show.
00:00:07.520Alberta isn't short on opinions, but a new bestseller from Cochran's own Nadine Wellwood just put a sharper edge on that conversation.
00:00:32.000The book's core pitch is simple, shrink government, grow citizen power, free Alberta, less Ottawa micromanagement, more local accountability.
00:00:41.920And judging by the sales and chatter, I think Albertans are listening.
00:00:45.320Wellwood roots her argument in classic thinkers and real world economics, making the case that families and communities do better when government knows its lane and stays in it.
00:00:55.440Her goal isn't chaos in a free and independent Alberta, it's competence and freedom, fewer bureaucratic solutions that create new problems and more room for people to solve the ones right in front of them.
00:01:09.580The book is provoking the exact kind of debate Alberta needs right now as it faces critical questions about its future within or without Canada.
00:01:21.200For example, what is the proper size of government in a province that carries Canada's economy on its back?
00:01:27.420Where should decisions live? In faraway federal offices or closer to home?
00:01:32.960And how do we protect families' freedom to live as they see fit without outsourcing every choice to a consultant or a cabinet table?
00:01:40.700If you're tired of being told government knows best, Wellwood's success is a signal.
00:01:45.360Regular people just want to say again on pensions, on schools, on the day-to-day policies that add cost and subtract common sense.
00:04:50.860He said, so what are you going to do about it?
00:04:52.340And I'm like, what do you mean, what am I going to do about it?
00:04:54.000He said, what are you going to do about it?
00:04:55.140And I'm like, OK, you may not like what I'm about to do about it.
00:04:59.360And got involved and ran for the People's Party of Canada in 2019, 2021, as well as the Senate race here in Alberta.
00:05:07.380And when that, obviously, people, I think, are very afraid of change.
00:05:12.760And there's lots of things that politicians even do, I think, that keep people under their thumb and in a position of fear rather than looking forward as to what can be done.
00:06:36.520And then I think people who are sort of in the, I don't know how to put it, independence movement.
00:06:42.040I don't want to say sovereignty because that means so much for, you know, it's just such a broad point.
00:06:49.880But it also comes with, I guess, maybe some stigma.
00:06:52.880I know Corey Morgan talks about, you know, the independence movement.
00:06:56.800And, you know, that can mean an entire spectrum of things, be it, you know, exerting more autonomy within Confederation, saying we're out of here, saying we're going to join the Americans.
00:07:08.300And, you know, are we going to be more like Quebec?
00:07:12.060Are we going to be more like, you know, a territory?
00:07:15.560But I know that you were quite vocal in support of an Alberta pension plan, which seems like it would be a thing.
00:07:26.780So the Alberta pension plan, because I have a background in economics and finance, and my designation as a chartered investment manager is a portfolio management designation.
00:07:37.260So I could be one of the people who manage your pension plan, for example, if that's what I chose to do for a career.
00:07:44.680The designation that I hold allows that.
00:07:46.620And so I had jumped in and started to promote the Alberta pension plan as an option, because whether we separate or we don't, and whether we achieve full independence, we should be taking steps to achieve at least partial independence.
00:08:04.660And the Alberta pension plan was an excellent way for us to assert a little bit more autonomy here at home.
00:08:09.980Something that with the stroke of a pen actually is all it takes is a stroke of the pen by our premier to do that.
00:08:19.420She just really has, because the Canada Pension Act allows for any province to leave to start their own pension as long as it's like and similar.
00:08:29.680And then we have three years basically to build our own pension plan.
00:08:33.080And then everything just transitions over.
00:08:35.180And of course, the economics around independence, whether it's a pension plan, police force, whether all the economics makes a hundred percent sense for Albertans to leave Canada and to go it on their own.
00:08:50.360And there's many reasons why people say we shouldn't do that.
00:09:32.440And of course, what happened was I think, you know, when the UCP took their foot off the gas, when they started this campaign, they came out, you know, heavy on the gas pedal and then they completely backed off.
00:10:08.800Economically, there is, you know, we send three to five billion dollars more each and every year to the CPP than we receive back to our own retirees.
00:10:21.900And then people have this idea that the Canada Pension Plan is an actual pension, which it is not.
00:10:38.200And the only little surplus that really has been available for the CPPIB to actually build up a small little nest egg of assets has actually come out of Alberta.
00:10:53.180And I just that just sends my brain on a little side quest here.
00:10:56.640Do you think that's why one of the reasons that the besides, you know, the demographic changes and and the the political chaos that the liberals think they're going to be the saviors of?
00:11:08.060Do you think that's one of the reasons why they have this out of control immigration?
00:11:12.920Because they need more people in the pyramid scheme of the pension plan?
00:15:07.640In my opinion, that's an Alberta problem.
00:15:09.800And so when I wrote the book, I wrote it from a perspective of principles and asking Albertans to be courageous enough and bold enough to actually maybe put aside some of our old beliefs and take a look at what's possible.
00:15:25.040And so doing that, it's more of a provocation.
00:15:28.880And it starts, each chapter starts with a little quote that gets you kind of thinking.
00:15:32.580You know, it's that question, hook the mind.
00:16:02.860I mean, that's a question that Corey Morgan often asked, or at least a question adjacent to that is, if in 2025, knowing what you know, with the deal that we have right now in Confederation, and you weren't a part of Canada, would you vote to join?
00:16:18.720And when you frame it in that way, you'd be hard pressed to find somebody who would opt to join Canada under the current terms and conditions for any other reason other than nostalgia, I think.
00:16:34.580And if we didn't have that nostalgia, if we wouldn't, if we were our own country and we were asked to join now, it would be a hard no for most people.
00:16:43.560And yet you have so many people that they are unhappy with the status quo, but yet there is this fear holding them back in being willing to say yes on a referendum.
00:17:00.640None of that has ever changed a single thing for Albertans.
00:17:04.760And things have only progressively gotten worse, not only for Alberta, but for all of Canadians.
00:17:10.580And so, as Bruce Party points out, I think Alberta has the opportunity here, if Canada can be saved, which I don't think it can, but if it can be saved, it is going to take something like Alberta leaving, I think, to shake it up enough to look in the mirror, re-examine its own bad policies and its own bad governance.
00:19:11.460You know, and not because I use them much here in Alberta, but it's just because, you know, it's a representation of our rights and our freedoms.
00:19:20.300And this is part of the problem with the Constitution, even in Canada.
00:19:23.280We, as Canadians, have no property rights, like no property rights.
00:19:28.380And this is your property and you have no right to it.
00:19:32.720And if anything, that is what COVID truly pointed out.
00:19:36.920And so, you know, we really do have to re-examine what freedom actually is and what values do we actually put forward.
00:19:46.760So when people talk about, you know, leaving Canada and they go all the economic reasons, I look at it for the reasons you just said, the cultural reasons, the moral reasons, the political reasons, not just economic reasons.
00:20:01.620And there are like we again, you know, for all of those reasons, you know, we are not the same as the people in the East.
00:20:25.920And it's not even East-West because there are some people in Ontario and there are parts of Newfoundland that are claiming they want independence too now, you know, because they have that sense of freedom, that entrepreneurial spirit.
00:20:36.660They don't want that dependency welfare state, right?
00:20:41.400You know, they are willing to accept responsibility for their own actions and their own behaviours.
00:20:46.020And that's really where Albertans, I think, have always been.
00:20:49.460Like you talk to a true blue Albertan and it's like, get the government out of my way and I'll show you how it's done.
00:22:03.040And they shouldn't be interfering in the daily lives of its citizens.
00:22:09.900Like, government should be the most boring thing on the planet.
00:22:12.700Nobody should have a reason to talk about it, right?
00:22:15.300Because it should just be there doing the small few little things that it was designed to do.
00:22:21.120And it has basically infiltrated every aspect of our lives that needs, and that's what really, truly needs to change.
00:22:28.420We need to put government back in its box.
00:22:30.860And then we need to literally wrap chains around it and, you know, cement it closed to make sure that it only does a handful of things that it's supposed to do and nothing more.
00:22:41.220Get out of people, get out of people's lives, let people live their lives.
00:22:45.160And for me, I challenge taxation in my book, you know, because where did the government get the right to tax you?
00:22:52.580You know, taxation in this country started as a temporary measure to pay for the war.
00:22:58.860And the government never does anything temporary.
00:23:01.320And when they get a little bit of control and a little taste of what's possible, they keep going.
00:23:08.460And so we went from paying 3%, 4% to pay for a war to now you give up more than 50% of your paycheck in provincial and federal taxes.
00:23:16.940Plus you're paying fuel taxes, excise taxes, custom taxes, all those other taxes.
00:23:22.800So I would say arguably like the average maybe upper middle class individual is paying close to maybe 70% of every dollar they earn in some form of tax.
00:23:36.000I was in Dubai two years ago because we went to Israel and then we were, it wasn't a pleasure cruise.
00:23:43.820We were there talking about the Abraham Accords and, you know, how Trump was in power and peace broke out in the Middle East at the time.
00:23:51.180And I just looked around Dubai and they just build things just for the sake of building it.
00:23:55.480Like a building that has a cruise ship on the top of it.
00:24:00.600And that's what, I just walked around in awe thinking this is what, like, say for the, like, the gimmicky stuff.
00:24:08.280But it's just a bustling, rich, like, rich, orderly society.
00:24:14.700And I thought, this is kind of what Alberta could be if government just got out of the way.
00:24:19.820If we had low taxes, that we attracted all those businesses that fled to West Texas and fled to other jurisdictions.
00:24:27.300If we just were serious about inviting business back, just the enormous wealth that we could generate being the world's largest, third largest oil reserves.
00:24:42.440Like, we're just leaving so much on the table and we're leaving it there in no small part thanks to the federal government.
00:24:49.660But a lot of it has to do with provincial regulations too.
00:24:52.240Absolutely. You know, government has to realize that money goes where it's easy, right?
00:24:59.000Government, like, money, because, I mean, that's my business for the last two and a bit, 20 plus years.
00:25:04.800Capital likes predictable. They like stable. And it needs to be easy.
00:25:10.340You know, and people will reinvest that capital over and over and over again.
00:25:14.780And that's what creates jobs and opportunities.
00:25:17.100And, you know what, there is absolutely no reason why Alberta should be paying, like its citizens, any taxes, just like Dubai.
00:25:24.680We have the natural resources, not only oil and gas, but we have minerals.
00:25:29.820We have coal. We have, I mean, the timber.
00:25:33.360I mean, the list goes on and on and on.
00:25:34.920And I'll tell you this, that the biggest, you know, profit center and the greatest resource that Alberta has is your people.
00:25:45.140You know, we are resilient. We're entrepreneurial. We're spirited, better or worse, which is why the East does not like us, right?
00:25:52.820They're spirited, have an opinion kind of people.
00:25:55.420And that is a problem for them because we are the ones that, you know what, if you can't have the conversation, the debate, and here's the other thing I want to say.
00:26:03.260Like, in my book, I am definitely an advocate for independence.
00:26:07.460But in my book, this really was written more for the people who are not necessarily convinced independence is the way to go.
00:26:14.860Or for the teacher who's in the union and has been told that you have to resist this altogether.
00:26:20.200This book is about challenging some of those ideas and laying it out for you really easy.
00:26:25.340Healthcare. We cling on to this miserable, monopolistic, public healthcare system that is just absolutely dismal.
00:26:35.600Bad results, long wait times. People are dying trying to get treatment.
00:26:40.440And yet you have something like Japan, and I do give some of these little examples.
00:26:51.520You know, so what is, why do we keep clinging to these bad ideas when there are, the world has already shown us there are better ways to do it?
00:27:02.120You know, I'm so glad you brought up healthcare because the Fraser Institute just released a report this morning that says the average Canadian family pays $19,000 for their universal healthcare.
00:27:13.200That is, you'd be lucky if you used it once a year.
00:27:16.760No, no, no, Sheila. Our healthcare system is free.
00:33:31.120Jennifer, for those of you who don't know, she is one of a number of Indigenous activists for accountability who were hit with these deeply flawed cease and desist letters,
00:33:42.420basically telling them cease and desist asking questions.
00:33:45.260Well, then give them answers and they'll stop asking questions.