00:00:10.300I'm Sheila Gunn-Reed and you're watching The Gunn Show.
00:00:30.000uh yeah like how much what portion will come out of uh albertian or canadian taxpayers pocket i
00:00:41.520mean that remains to be negotiated and that'll be one of the things that we take away we wanted to
00:00:46.880get the high level agreement of the partnership and of course it'll be the federal government
00:00:50.800the provincial government indigenous stake as well as pembina so it'll be negotiated over time
00:00:55.280But what I would say is that when you look at some of the recent projections that were done
00:01:02.000by ATB about what a million and a half barrels of additional oil sands production would do for
00:01:09.360our country, this would be a million barrels. They talked about $30 billion. This would be
00:01:14.240$20 billion per year, every year, for as long as the pipeline operates. And so those will be the
00:01:20.080kind of revenue figures that we're looking at. And then the ownership stakes will be negotiated
00:01:26.660on that basis once we look at the terminal point, finalize the route, finalize the cost.
00:01:34.100Well, there you have it. In joint press conference, Thursday night, Alberta Premier
00:01:40.460Daniel Smith and Prime Minister Mark Carney announced the development of a new West Coast
00:01:48.360pipeline from Alberta, which would carry our oil to foreign markets. But this thing is not what a
00:01:56.580lot of people, myself included, were expecting, although I wasn't actually expecting a pipeline at
00:02:01.780all, to be frank with you. What would have made sense was a northern pipeline. But earlier in the
00:02:10.260day, the country discovered that the tanker ban on Alberta oil would be staying in place. You see
00:02:19.680tankers of American oil come down from Alaska using that same path, but there is a ban on
00:02:28.600tankers from Alberta. And in a series of announcements yesterday, including just
00:02:37.720billions of dollars being dumped into British Columbia to quell their provincial opposition
00:02:47.140to a pipeline. And when I say provincial opposition, I mean from the provincial government
00:02:51.620and not from the good people of British Columbia. They were basically bought off yesterday with
00:02:57.780other people's money. By other people's money, I mean Albertans' money, which meant the only
00:03:04.400pathway for a new oil pipeline would be through the port of vancouver we can help support energy
00:03:11.680security while reducing global emissions and creating opportunities for british columbians
00:03:16.960now there's one piece that i want to be clear about this agreement doesn't require us to support
00:03:22.560any pipeline proposal from alberta however as i've said before we recognize our constitutional
00:03:30.000position. And we do not have the authority to stop a new pipeline. We will not be going to court
00:03:35.640to fight a pipeline project. Instead, we will ensure we fulfill our constitutional obligations
00:03:41.360in good faith. Pipelines are federal jurisdiction. That's why this agreement matters. It ensures that
00:03:48.900the northern tanker ban stays in place. And it ensures that if a pipeline goes ahead, that British
00:03:55.380Columbians are fairly compensated for the environmental risks we would take on any new
00:03:59.400pipeline project so that was the development earlier in the day the delayed announcement
00:04:07.880from approximately two in the afternoon to then six o'clock in the evening to 6 30 in the evening
00:04:14.280was that there would be a west coast pipeline and that will be referred to the major projects
00:04:21.300office for approval and that the provincial government would be putting in billions of
00:04:29.280dollars along with Trans Mountain which is a crown corporation read the government of Canada
00:04:39.120with Pembina pipeline being as my guest describes in roughly an advisory role in the project so this
00:04:50.520is a government pipeline another government pipeline and why do we have another government
00:04:56.060pipeline? Well, because the federal government has not removed any of the restrictions prohibiting
00:05:05.900private participation in oil and gas pipelines.
00:05:13.480So this is just another taxpayer-funded boondoggle that will come in years overdue
00:05:24.980and way over budget why because there are really no shareholders to be accountable for as you would
00:05:32.260see in the private sector if pembina were responsible for the entire pipeline construction
00:05:39.640it would come in on timelines why because they need to be accountable to the people who are
00:05:46.600investing in pembina but the investors here are really the taxpayer and guess how that goes well
00:05:53.460We don't have to guess. We already saw what happened with Trans Mountain. Federal government refused to enforce the law. And Kinder Morgan was going to abandon the project. The federal government bought the project. And then instead of a $6 billion project, it was roughly 35 billion years over budget and just an absolute mess.
00:06:16.160And so that, that, that is what we're doing all over again, with a more expensive route, because the tanker ban is staying in place. And I don't think this is the win that the provincial government wants us to believe it is.
00:06:34.160So today, my guest is Corey Morgan of the Western Standard and of our joint project
00:06:41.180between myself and Corey Morgan, AlbertaFactCheck.com, to discuss this and his third party
00:06:48.660advertiser, the controversy about his independence signs in Tabor, Alberta, and where you can
00:07:04.160so joining me now is my partner in the project albertafactcheck.com and columnist over at the
00:07:14.220western standard and i think the uh head of one of the most successful third-party advertisers
00:07:23.660in the independence campaign cory morgan uh cory um let's talk about the thing that broke last
00:07:30.480night and it was a delayed press conference delayed a couple of times actually it was supposed
00:07:36.880to be earlier in the afternoon and then it was six o'clock once the PMO got involved and then
00:07:42.300it was delayed approximately a half an hour I don't know why I wonder if Mark Carney was watching
00:07:47.120the FIFA game but apparently there is going to be a pipeline to the west coast it doesn't look the
00:07:57.600way most people thought it would look. It won't be going to the northwest coast. A lot of people
00:08:05.960were hoping that maybe it would be a different version of Northern Gateway, starting in Bruderheim
00:08:11.980and then headed to the terrace area of British Columbia. Instead, we've got some Frankenstein
00:08:18.540monster of a pipeline that starts in Bruderheim, heads west, then goes south to the port of
00:08:25.580vancouver and there is it's not entirely a privately funded pipeline project the alberta
00:08:34.340government is kicking in a bunch of cash and then um it's in partnership with indigenous groups and
00:08:41.200trans mountain so uh this is just i think uh the alberta government trying to make the best
00:08:52.020of a bad situation, but I'm very concerned that we're going to see a taxpayer boondoggle. We hear
00:08:59.080the Alberta government saying that this is a win for Alberta taxpayers. There's going to be
00:09:04.840gajillions of dollars in royalties, but we all saw what happened with Trans Mountain when the
00:09:10.640government got involved. A $6 billion private sector fully funded project turned into about
00:09:17.300to 800% over budget and years in delay and just a big old mess. Anyways, now you have my take on
00:09:26.760it. What do you think, Corey? Mine's pretty similar. I mean, it's just a dog's breakfast
00:09:31.440of compromises all over the place. The only kind of private involvement we can see in this, which
00:09:37.820you know, the Smith government was touting, as you said, sounded like they had a big proponent
00:09:41.940coming, is Pembina pipelines. And I believe it's more of just an advisory role and it accounts for
00:09:47.100about 10% of the pipe. So that's a token private involvement is what that is. Trans Mountain,
00:09:53.200well, that's a crown corporation these days. So that's just government involvement. This
00:09:57.740looks ugly. I think it's a government from the Smith perspective, she's not willing to go full
00:10:04.440bore fighting with the feds. So this is the corner she's painted herself into. In June 10th,
00:10:10.560even there was a release from the provincial government talking about the northern route
00:10:14.580to Prince Rupert, which makes the oil much more affordable because it shortens the trip
00:10:21.260to get it to Asia. It shortens the amount of pipe to get across the mountains. Apparently
00:10:26.000three weeks later, that's off the table because Carney won't move on the tanker ban. And
00:10:30.680kind of as you said before, it's Trans Mountain 2.0. They're budgeting it to be around 40
00:10:35.820billion, which if we translate that to a similar thing to Kinder Morgan to Trans Mountain,
00:10:42.440And this might cost $100 billion by the time these clowns are done with it, if it ever actually gets done.
00:10:46.800Yeah, if it ever actually gets done, because while Eby, David Eby in British Columbia yesterday, was given billions of dollars to buy his compliance on a pipeline,
00:11:00.800This still doesn't get us past the opposition of Vancouverites and other Indigenous groups who will intervene thanks to rulings that require ongoing consultation and not permission, but everybody seems to think consultation means permission.
00:11:20.060So this isn't a done deal. And we also know the feds don't really care to enforce the law when it comes to pipelines. That's how Kinder Morgan, or it was Kinder Morgan at the time, Kinder Morgan and then thus Trans Mountain ended up in such a mess anyway.
00:11:38.840So and then in the middle of this, they've put in this carbon credit scheme with the announcement from British Columbia, which will further down the road deter oil and gas investment.
00:11:53.700So it makes it more likely that anything that will ever get done in the oil and gas sector in this country will be done by the government.
00:12:00.720And I am not cheering for the Venezuela-ification of the Canadian oil and gas sector.
00:12:08.840I'm very pleased to join Premier Smith here in Calgary to announce new measures that will unlock Alberta's energy for the world.
00:12:19.320These measures will build the strength of our entire country.
00:12:38.060Canadians' announcements will catalyze well over $200 billion in direct investments in Canada, create over 175,000 new jobs across the country, and we are just getting started.
00:12:53.860These benefits will be shared widely, including with Indigenous peoples as full partners, and they will create resources for the social programs on which Canadians rely.
00:13:05.220This is cooperative federalism at work.
00:13:09.320It's the kind of unity and collaboration that Albertans and Canadians rightly expect.
00:13:16.220They expect it on principle, and they expect it because it's required for Canada to prosper in a rapidly changing world.
00:13:25.920And if this stays like it is, this is, if it even happens, this will be the last major pipeline ever done in Canada.
00:13:31.460Look at the precedent being set, the nightmare.
00:13:34.260I guess if Carney's actually serious about it, I mean, to be fair, he is expanding some political capital. The environmental wing of his party is furious with him. So he's put himself out a little bit there. He's got to have to follow the next step, which would be to put it in the major projects office this fall and declare it in the national interest, because that's the only way this thing will be pushed through.
00:13:56.040we know the protests the court challenges all of this they're all getting in line already to do it
00:14:02.320if Carney really wants this to happen he must know he actually has to take a stand on something
00:14:06.880for a change and push this thing through I don't really believe he has that kind of backbone in
00:14:12.760him I don't either I think that this whole thing is a poison pill and I think you're right this
00:14:19.480could potentially be the last major pipeline project built in this country and it's a shame
00:14:25.920You know, we have the world's third largest proven oil reserve and we can't get anything to market. We can't build a pipeline to the cheapest, most effective route because we have a federal government that not only wouldn't enforce the law, but then added a bunch of other laws in to make sure that our pipelines never go forward.
00:14:45.760I think the Smith government and possibly Mark Carney thinks that this will extinguish separatist sentiment, but we're not stupid. We're not stupid. We can see what a mess this is. And the amount of gaslighting coming out of the provincial government on this is crazy.
00:15:05.200It feels like the MOU all over again, where we can read the document, we can see the deal, we can understand what's happening.
00:15:13.040You can say this is a win-win-win, but it's a mess going forward.
00:15:18.960I'm very pleased to join Premier Smith here in Calgary to announce new measures that will unlock Alberta's energy for the world.
00:15:29.860These measures will build the strength of our entire country.
00:15:33.820they will take control of our future, they will bolster our sovereignty.
00:15:40.480Today's announcements, and this is a lowball figure,
00:15:44.820you don't normally get lowball figures from politicians, this is a lowball figure,
00:15:48.900Canadians' announcements will catalyze well over $200 billion in direct investments in Canada,
00:15:55.620create over 175,000 new jobs across the country, and we are just getting started.
00:16:03.820These benefits will be shared widely, including with Indigenous peoples as full partners,
00:16:11.400and they will create resources for the social programs on which Canadians rely.
00:16:15.800This is cooperative federalism at work.
00:16:19.540It's the kind of unity and collaboration that Albertans and Canadians rightly expect.
00:16:26.600they expect it on principle and they expect it because it's required for canada to prosper
00:16:33.160in a rapidly changing world oh yeah and the the uncertainty is still there i mean the proposed
00:16:40.280area where rob anderson and some others feel that there's going to be this great boon to alberta
00:16:45.960would be in the presumption there will be an expansion of oil sands production and operations
00:16:51.640but it's the same as the pipeline i can't see these companies pouring a bunch of capital into
00:16:55.640expanding even their oil sands operations until they're really sure that pipeline's actually going
00:17:01.320to be done the the the instability is still there if it got done for 40 billion if it got done by
00:17:09.8802034 as they think it might it'll take decades for that thing to even break even at the at the way
00:17:17.240they're going with it and it doesn't have to cost this much we know that we've seen what private
00:17:21.640proponents can do with a pipeline we just know that if the government takes it on it's going to
00:17:25.960be a mess so i i guess they have to polish that turd as well as they can it's their role as a
00:17:32.200government but i don't think it's uh many people are taking it seriously the skepticism is just way
00:17:37.560too deep now it it won't calm the independence movement and if this thing fails and hits a
00:17:43.400a roadblock and stops it will grow it significantly and quickly yeah i mean we see what happened
00:17:52.600with the bridger pipeline the bridger pipeline is really you know keystone xl 2.0 uh private
00:17:58.560sector proponents stepped in the u.s government approved it immediately it's going to get going
00:18:04.340um a lot of people and myself included were hoping that someone would just do that with
00:18:09.500northern gateway right from Bruderheim the existing infrastructure is there the trains are there
00:18:15.100just head straight on the same route just get given her if this is in the national interest
00:18:20.900then do it um but that didn't happen we saw as you described it rightfully a dog's breakfast of a
00:18:29.800mess and um I'm I just I'm refusing to buy the hype I'm I'm a smart enough lady I can see for
00:18:36.500myself what's going on here and it's a bizarre step from a conservative provincial government
00:18:44.200who you know wants to scale back the size and scope and government or at least that's what
00:18:48.540they tell me and they believe in capitalism and free markets doing exactly what happened with
00:18:54.860Trans Mountain it it's a disappointing disaster I think absolutely and I mean we don't have to
00:19:03.200reinvent the wheel here as you said with northern gateway what was it hundreds of millions if not
00:19:07.300billions were spent already on all the impact studies the the work the planning the research
00:19:12.580they just need to change the date on that and it's ready to go trans mountain was even more
00:19:17.460recently all finished they keep making everybody start from scratch on these things look the
00:19:22.120mountains are in the same places the indigenous bands are in the same spots the creeks are in the
00:19:26.480same places to cross we don't need to keep studying this to death either and getting more permits just
00:19:31.280go it's done it's a pipe we know how they work but they won't do it they make us start these things
00:19:36.400right from the beginning all over again and it gets harder every time which which leads to the
00:19:41.920as i said deep skepticism that this thing's even gonna go after seven months um this project
00:19:49.120will now require government support in terms of equity why do you think that it remains
00:19:56.800too risky for the private sector to run with it by itself? I would say that we did have a number
00:20:06.160of projects, and I can elaborate on them. I mean, we did have Northern Gateway that had all of its
00:20:11.900approvals, and they were then canceled. We did have Keystone XL, who had all of its approvals
00:20:16.920and were starting to build pipelines across the border, and a presidential permit was canceled.
00:20:21.460We had Energy East that was a billion dollars into a regulatory approval process and couldn't
00:20:25.500the way to the finish line. So it was canceled. So we have pipeline companies that have literally
00:20:29.680spent billions of dollars in recent years on failed regulatory approval processes. That's
00:20:34.680the environment we're finding ourselves in. And so it does take some work, I think, to make sure
00:20:41.220that the private sector proponents understand that this is a real process. There's a real commitment
00:20:45.880on the part of all three parties, myself, as well as the Premier of British Columbia, as well as
00:20:51.960the prime minister to get this project to the finish line. So what the share of the private
00:20:59.220sector stake will be, that remains to be seen. Maybe over time, as more and more certainty comes
00:21:04.300in, maybe we'll be talking with Scott about him wanting to take on a larger and larger share.
00:21:08.920But we want to make sure that a company knows that we're walking this path with them so that
00:21:13.300we can get it to the end. And I won't speak for the prime minister, but I did notice that they
00:21:19.080have already received a over $1 billion dividend payment from the Trans Mountain pipeline. And so
00:21:25.440it seems to me that once you get through the construction process and you start earning
00:21:31.220revenue, it is an incredibly lucrative type of infrastructure that will benefit taxpayers. That
00:21:37.980was our consideration. Now, let's move topics because I want to talk to you about what happened
00:21:45.920to you in Tabor, Alberta. Now we talked about it a little bit on the live stream, but this is a
00:21:50.300different show. You tried to put up some billboards in Tabor or a billboard in Tabor. The town of
00:21:56.300Tabor got weird about it. A little sensory and you ended up with more billboards and more money
00:22:05.940flowing into your third party advertiser. Give us a Colesnotes version of what happened there.
00:22:12.100Sure. I mean, I started that third party advertiser kind of on a whim because that's
00:22:15.460just the goofy things I do to myself. It took off quite well. We wanted to show a presence quickly,
00:22:20.500but printers were going to take a while to get the lawn signs and all that made. And somebody
00:22:23.700said, hey, I know a guy that has billboards down in Tabor. You can get an ad up there real fast and
00:22:28.360relatively inexpensively and start your campaign. So I thought, great. So I got one for a digital
00:22:33.480billboard in Tabor. It just said, choose Alberta, show the Alberta flag, and said, send out a law
00:22:38.440message. And within two days, the owner of the billboard had gotten a demand letter from the
00:22:42.900administration of the town of Tabor demanding it be removed within 10 days or they could
00:22:47.860potentially start actions to remove his license to operate there. So yeah it was unreal. I mean
00:22:54.080a level of government telling us we can't legally advertise. So thankfully the billboard owner stood
00:23:00.240fast and I expanded my contract and then I booked two more billboards in the town and had those
00:23:06.420running all the way till the end of the month and then we held a rally in Tabor last Sunday which
00:23:11.380a couple hundred people came out to and distributed a whole pile of lawn signs had a good
00:23:16.880drive-through I suspect Tabor has more of my TPA's lawn signs per capita than any other community in
00:23:24.000all of Alberta so I guess I got to kind of thank those fools on the town administration because
00:23:27.760otherwise it would have been forgotten after a two-week billboard ad billboard ad you know and
00:23:32.460it's funny too because it shows how out of whack the town is the town administration with the people
00:23:39.740who live there. The people who live there, whether they support separatism or independence
00:23:44.840or not, I think they generally believe in free speech. And the town shouldn't be getting involved
00:23:52.500in this. I'm sure the town would not have had a problem if you had put up a billboard celebrating
00:23:59.660Pride Month or Pride season or whatever we're doing these days. Even though I believe that
00:24:05.300that is an explicitly political message, they probably wouldn't have gotten involved. There's
00:24:11.240something that prickles me wrong about municipalities stepping in to take sides on
00:24:18.480the independence dispute campaign, whatever you want to call it. We see it happening in Calgary
00:24:23.680with Mayor Farkas as well. Just stay out of it. Let the people decide, fix the potholes, pick up
00:24:29.540the trash deal with the recycling those sorts of things clean up the transit system they've got a
00:24:37.600lot of other things that they need to do that shouldn't involve limiting the free speech of
00:24:41.660people in a democratic process yeah and i mean well part of it's conservative's own fault to be
00:24:48.000honest we've let the left take over the municipalities we haven't paid attention
00:24:51.560and they've they've slipped through and they've gotten these small local governments they've taken
00:24:56.260control of them and then the large ones in the city of calgary come on calgary it's supposed to
00:25:00.420be the hub of conservatism we've had nichey and gondek and then jeremy farkas who appears to have
00:25:05.540hit his head when he was doing his cross mountain trip turned into a woke leftist these days too
00:25:11.060we've got to take control of these local governments again i mean farkas is it was
00:25:14.900shocking i mean he's been coming out as he can as an individual as a mayor okay he's taken aside the
00:25:20.420independence issue whatever fine but now he's talking about having the government change the
00:25:24.420law so he can use municipal tax dollars to campaign on a side in the referendum the amount
00:25:30.180of entitlement and arrogance coming out of that is is disturbing and i don't think people pay
00:25:34.660their property taxes expecting that money to go towards the local government campaigning during
00:25:41.300what's supposed to be an open vote we've we've let these municipalities get right out of control
00:25:46.500yeah and i'm glad you brought that up so i sort of prattle on about that all the time that
00:25:51.540But conservatives have all but abandoned local politics and local politics is the level of government that affects you the most.
00:25:59.680If we're concerned about the wokeness at the school board, you can flip a school board if you really get organized and use your resources.
00:26:07.720It's easier to do than flipping a government like a federal government.
00:26:14.340Well, we sort of walk away from it. We focus on the big issues, but realize that those cultural issues are happening a lot closer to home and we can actually do something about it.
00:26:24.500I hope after seeing what's happened in Calgary that and, you know, in Tabor and other municipalities, you know, we've seen municipalities cancel independence events that are in municipal facilities, you know, where these are peaceful events, their own residents are renting the facility and they're canceling the rental because they don't like the politics of the people involved.
00:26:51.240It's not supposed to work that way. Those facilities are paid for by everybody and for use by everybody. They shouldn't be treating independence rallies like Klan events, but they are for some reason. And I think it behooves conservatives after this to do something, to get involved in local politics. We shouldn't let it be a breeding ground of woke progressives who want to just move up the supply chain into higher levels of government. And it so frequently is.
00:27:21.240Yeah, and local conservatives should make note of that because these are very conservative towns.
00:27:24.880Tabard's got to be one of the most conservative towns in all of Alberta.
00:27:29.000Westlock, we saw battles over flags and crosswalks up there, and Westlock's a good conservative town.
00:27:35.220So what I would hope is that, and you know, you and I will keep nagging about it, but when these municipal elections come down, people make note of these actions, make note of these councillors and fire them.
00:31:25.400So I was fortunate to have that already.
00:31:26.700uh i don't know fortunate's the right word i think it's uh it just goes to your hard work
00:31:33.580on this topic for many many years uh none of it is luck i'll tell you that much um you've written
00:31:40.540a book though cory and you've written an updated version of your book the sovereign test handbook
00:31:45.820tell us a little bit about that and where people can get it sure as was described it's like a field
00:31:51.420manual part of uh pointing out i've been in the independence movement a long time and i'm quite
00:31:55.500stubborn with it uh i've seen a lot of mistakes being repeated and a lot of new people getting
00:32:00.460on board with the movement which is fantastic but they're not experienced campaigners they don't
00:32:03.820necessarily know how best to make the case so i thought i'd actually write a guidebook just to
00:32:08.380help people if they're getting involved because you don't have political parties necessarily well
00:32:11.740involved or things that can organize that it helped train people to be an individual advocate
00:32:16.940moving towards that same goal of independence so i packed it into the sovereignty's handbook
00:32:21.260it got a little dusty after three and a half years i just needed to update it and get some
00:32:24.540some more stuff on it so we did that update and re-released it with 50 extra pages and a much
00:32:29.440cleaner copy through rebel media as a publisher uh what about a month ago and it's been taken off
00:32:34.520really well since then that's great uh i think it's available at the sovereigntisthandbook.com
00:32:40.900or on amazon um and i'm just excited to see those books fly off the table uh wherever you're at i
00:32:49.460I think it's a great resource and helps people approach those conversations calmly because people are passionate about this on both sides of the debate.
00:33:00.360And, you know, when you're armed with facts, it sort of takes the temperature down.
00:33:04.940And sometimes it can get a little hot, as we saw an independent supporter get flung into traffic the other day in Edmonton.
00:33:13.040So less of that, more conversations, please.