55,000 people attended the United Nations Climate Change Conference in Bilem, Brazil. And the good news is, regular people don t care anymore. In this episode, I talk to journalist Sheila Gunn-Reed about why.
00:00:00.00055,000 people attended the United Nations Climate Change Conference in Bilem, Brazil.
00:00:06.140And the good news is, regular people don't care anymore.
00:00:10.380I'm Sheila Gunn-Reed, and you're watching The Gunn Show.
00:00:30.000I hope I don't come across as someone who's scared of hard work, because I'm not.
00:00:35.620But I will tell you that my trip to Bilem, Brazil, was one of the most difficult travel schedules that I've ever had for work in 10 years of doing this job.
00:00:49.280And I'm including, like, the 3 a.m. wake-up calls in Winnipeg in the winter, working on a documentary to catch a flight.
00:01:01.140Like, I cannot even explain how difficult the travel is to get from Western Canada on a budget to Bilem, Brazil.
00:01:11.500And then to get back when 55,000 delegates and official types, plus, you know, another 20,000, 25,000 climate activist tourist types are all trying to leave a city at the exact same time and get back to the Western world.
00:01:28.480Anyways, it was hell to try to do it on a budget.
00:01:31.320I wasn't going to spend the amount of money it would take for it to be even remotely comfortable.
00:01:37.740Um, but I think it was all worth it in the end to expose what the United Nations was doing in Bilem and how hypocritical they were.
00:01:51.560That they descended on a city where 60% of the people live in abject poverty.
00:01:55.340Uh, to lecture us about how we all need to do more to protect the rainforest.
00:02:03.540When, as I explained in my interview, those delegates could have made a real difference in the health and welfare of the rainforest if they went one hour a day with a garbage bag.
00:02:13.960And just picked up some trash in the streets of Bilem, Brazil.
00:02:18.740And if you want to see all of my work from there, you can go to rebelun.com if you're so inclined, you can throw in a couple of bucks to help offset our costs, which I still think are accumulating.
00:02:33.180Um, but the good news is for me is that I got home and while I was adjusting to jet lag and the Amazonian virus that I picked up while I was there, I saw the most comforting poll come out of abacus data.
00:02:53.340And that was that 13% of people actually even care about climate change.
00:03:00.940Now for me, I feel like that's still too high, but you know, those are 13% of the people who are brainwashed by their teachers, brainwashed by the CBC, still pick up their local newspaper and don't realize that the people writing there are funded to write about certain things.
00:03:15.820But, uh, I'm grateful because I feel like my work has made an impact on that.
00:03:24.740And so I think maybe, maybe we might be seeing the end of the climate scare.
00:03:30.880I mean, we saw the end of the carbon tax over the last year and now people aren't even caring about climate change.
00:03:37.280And I think the people who say they care about climate change only, I even feel like the number is probably lower because I think a lot of people say they care about climate change because they're told they should care about climate change, but they actually don't.
00:03:48.160They more care about the cost of living.
00:03:50.180So all that is to say, I think, I think nature is healing.
00:03:54.340Now to discuss what happened in Bulem, Brazil from the inside, like what policy decisions were coming out of Bulem, Brazil today is my friend, Tom Harris from the International Climate Science Coalition in an interview we recorded just moments ago.
00:04:13.360So joining me now is good friend of the show, my friend and good friend to reality everywhere, Tom Harris from the International Climate Science Coalition, Canada.
00:04:31.160Tom, I wanted to have you on the show to digest what happened at the United Nations Climate Change Conference in Bulem, Brazil.
00:04:39.360It's known as COP30, the conference of the parties, but it really is the international gathering of the climate hypocrites.
00:04:48.060And it was in a difficult place to get to, but also to work in Bulem, Brazil.
00:04:54.440And I say work in if you are a real journalist trying to expose the truth.
00:05:00.060It was actually probably quite comfortable to the world's journalists who got to be inside in the air conditioning.
00:05:07.040But that wasn't the case for me. Tom, tell us what we need to know.
00:05:11.500What are the big takeaways from the Climate Change Conference?
00:05:15.040Yeah, I think the main thing is that for the very first time, they're addressing what they call information integrity.
00:05:22.480In other words, the information is only valuable in their eyes if it agrees with them.
00:05:27.460This is the first time that a UN conference actually addressed this.
00:05:30.940And in particular, they're now blaming the lack of progress on climate change, you know, in their particular sphere of influence, on disinformation.
00:05:42.140And they're saying it threatens to derail fragile progress on emissions reduction.
00:05:46.500So somehow you and I are part of that.
00:06:30.900But then they go on to say some things that are certainly not.
00:06:35.000How despicable, by the way, for reporters without borders to get involved in any of this, because they're really calling on censorship of people like you and I.
00:06:41.780And I saw I experienced it firsthand when I was there.
00:06:44.420I was accredited, and then all of a sudden I wasn't, which I think is, is it Article 19 of the United Nations Declaration on Human Rights?
00:06:54.100That's the one that respects the free speech, free press, free thought, and your ability to transmit those ideas on the platform that you see fit.
00:07:06.400And they say, concerned by the growing impact of disinformation, misinformation, denialism, deliberate attacks on environmental journalists, defenders, scientists, researchers, and other public voices.
00:07:18.620Well, hey, you know, that actually applies to what happens to us.
00:07:22.720And this is a point that Terry Corcoran made in his article, which I'll quote from in a bit, because it was a very good article in the National Post, the Financial Post part.
00:07:30.440And in particular, they're saying, we affirm our commitment to promote and support the sustainability of a diverse and resilient media ecosystem, unless it disagrees with them.
00:07:43.820But here's what they call on governments to do.
00:07:46.680Ensure the safety of environmental journalists, defenders, scientists, researchers, and other public voices.
00:07:51.780Well, no, we're the ones that need to have the safety, but they're trying to make it look like we are attacking them personally and they're in danger.
00:07:59.840Now, here's something that may affect Rebel News significantly.
00:08:03.940It says, we call on governments to call on technology companies to assess whether and how platform architecture contributes to the undermining of climate information ecosystem integrity.
00:08:16.540In other words, they want to actually change the algorithm so that we won't be noticed.
00:08:21.680Right. And we've already seen a little bit of this in practice with the climate change warnings on videos that are critical.
00:08:31.200If you go and look at any of Friends of Science's videos, they've got a warning on them like a cigarette package that, you know, that and it's coming directly from the United Nations.
00:08:41.700And so this is Alphabet. That's the parent company of Google and YouTube already doing this in practice.
00:08:48.640Well, yeah, exactly. YouTube does that with my videos, too.
00:08:51.720They say, oh, you know, there really is a climate emergency.
00:08:54.800And this video, you know, they essentially say, yeah, that's right.
00:08:58.560Now, it's interesting because this declaration didn't actually happen in isolation.
00:09:03.420There was a little bit of a pre-activity that led to it.
00:09:07.420And I think it's important to look at that.
00:09:09.280There's a report that came out in January of this year by the Center for Media, Technology and Democracy.
00:09:15.980OK. And the report is called Climate Obstruction on the State and Spread of Climate Disinformation in Canada.
00:09:23.960Now, this actually, you know, you have to realize that not only does this media center in McGill strongly support the climate scare.
00:09:31.120So they're biased investigators. In fact, talking to Co-Pilot last night, it said, you know, they're not neutral.
00:09:37.340They're not neutral investigators. They want to actually make it so that, you know, the only people being heard are the people who agree with them.
00:10:02.140And this report analyzes how climate disinformation and what they called delayism, that's a new one, how it's spread in Canada and how platforms like YouTube are reluctant to regulate our activities.
00:10:15.820And it says that climate disinformation is not only a social media problem, but is embedded in Canadian political culture and identity.
00:10:24.120Now, isn't that interesting? That's why Guibo was there as the culture minister.
00:10:31.400And, you know, it's interesting. Look, advocacy groups like Climate Citizens Climate Lobby Canada, they then highlighted the report in early 2025 as evidence of systemic obstruction to climate action.
00:10:44.760OK, so it's interesting because that's what occurred right afterwards.
00:10:49.860Now, then it got into cabinet, clearly, because there was a cabinet reshuffle in the spring.
00:10:55.780Guibo moved to Canadian identity and culture and Julie Dramboussin became the environment minister.
00:11:02.380So this report gave them ammunition to sign on to the United Nations Declaration on Information Integrity.
00:11:10.180And so the report has given them kind of domestic legitimacy to sign on to this thing, because then they can point to it and say, oh, yes.
00:11:19.140And of course, this is why we're not getting more done on climate change is because of these darn rebel news and ICSD people.
00:11:27.200So, you know, Terry Corcoran had a really good quote.
00:11:29.420And I think it was quite cute because he said, basically, let me see if I can find it here.
00:11:37.520Well, what he's saying is it's not that the, you know, you always talk about speaking truth to power.
00:11:44.280OK, but what is happening here is it's speaking power to the public, that the actual people in power are deciding what is true in science and telling us and suppressing everybody else.
00:11:57.200So, you know, it's really worth looking at this in more detail.
00:12:00.840And I was talking to Microsoft Copilot, who's my buddy.
00:12:08.920And yeah, and it could be that depending on how seriously the government takes this, and I think they're going to take it very seriously because they have this report to back them up.
00:12:17.560And they're, of course, among the main drivers of trying to suppress this information, as they call it.
00:12:22.260I think what we're going to see is a lot more censorship where YouTube and X and, you know, Twitter was, it is X, actually.
00:12:31.560All these media sources are going to start, social media sources are going to start not only demonetizing, but they're going to start actually not even allowing us to post.
00:12:41.820And the government will then point to this report and say, and, you know, that's exactly why.
00:12:46.160So you have to take a step back and say, well, you know, what is driving all this?
00:12:52.860Well, I've got to tell you some of the numbers, the actual financial figures that are involved here.
00:12:58.860You might remember before COP29, which was the previous one, there was $100 billion set aside to help developing countries adapt to climate change.
00:16:58.360And these sewage outflows go right out either into the bay, which touches on the Atlantic, or they wash back directly into the Amazon rainforest.
00:17:09.060And I'm stuck over here in Canada being called a high-polluting state that's not doing enough.
00:19:17.380They don't want to actually tell people how much they're really spending because it's outrageous.
00:19:21.320So instead, they give a statement that is actually less than half of what they're really planning to spend in the hopes that we won't be too upset.
00:19:29.920So in reality, that particular statement, tripling adaptation funding, no, actually, we're multiplying it by seven.
00:19:36.800But the thing is that this document has no concrete mechanisms to raise and distribute adaptation and loss and damage fund.
00:19:45.220And there's no enforcement, OK, so just like this fellow from Care International, Marlene Achoky, she said, the outcome is a failure.
00:19:55.480There's no clarity on how much money is channeled to adaptation, where it will come from, its quality, or how progress would be measured.
00:20:03.080So it's kind of like a wishful thing, a pie in the sky.
00:20:08.660And it's interesting because Vanu, who's climate change minister, Ralph Ragu Vanu, or something like that, he said about 80 countries have put the red line on any mention of fossil fuels in the outcome of this meeting.
00:20:34.900And it's interesting to see the countries that objected, including China.
00:20:38.500You know, China, of course, took the leadership role at this event because they're supposedly so green, even though, what, they're opening something like two coal stations a week.
00:20:47.340But, you know, they're green in their exports because they sell it to us.
00:20:52.140So all of these arrangements, the COP30 and everything else, is massively to the benefit of China because suckers in the West are buying green energy from China.
00:21:03.020You know, so the adaptation funding business is not, you know, it does make sense if you focused on all kinds of adaptation because, of course, cooling is much more dangerous than warming.
00:21:14.520But typically, you know, these groups only focus on warming.
00:21:17.940You know, Sheila, it's a little bit like going on a camping trip.
00:21:21.540I think I might have said this to you earlier.
00:21:23.460And you're told that there is black flies and black bears in a particular region.
00:21:28.720And, you know, black bears can kill you.
00:22:20.300So if it were true that they were adapting or preparing to adapt to the most dangerous kind of climate change, which is cooling, then some of this would make sense.
00:22:29.120But the trouble is they're only planning for the black flies.
00:22:32.500They're only planning for the annoying warming, which is not dangerous.
00:22:36.100And historically, you know, you look through all the records, the medieval warm period.
00:22:40.060That's when they built the great cathedrals, the Roman Roman warm period.
00:22:43.940You know, that's when they had the Pax Romana, you know, and you go through all history and you find that warming is good.
00:22:49.860So, you know, I've often said that I've never seen a field where every single point they make is either wrong or hugely exaggerated.
00:23:53.360But, and I think, I think even the United Nations knows that people really don't care anymore.
00:24:01.220And I'll tell you how I know, despite climate change being shoved down our throat everywhere we turn, in the mainstream media, in local print newspapers, because the government literally funds a guy at your local Fort Saskatchewan record, in my case, to write about climate change.
00:24:53.540Yeah, and coal using the latest technology is a very valuable source.
00:24:57.840But, you know, Sheila, I wanted to ask you a question.
00:25:00.420My impression is that most of the people arguing and, you know, going into protests and stuff, they don't really know what they're talking about.
00:25:20.800What they found when they asked people questions about things to do with logic and things to do with language, they asked them questions, and then they asked them how confident were they that their answer was right?
00:25:33.340And what they found was that the less a person knew about a field, the more confident they were that they were right.
00:25:49.180And the smart people who actually understood the field that they were asking about actually underestimated their accuracy.
00:25:57.320And so it's actually turned upside down.
00:25:59.560So what you have is all these people painting things on their hands and their face and everything else.
00:26:04.020My dad used to say, look, if these people spend as much time in the library back in those days learning about the field, they probably wouldn't protest in the first place because they may find that the whole thing is bunk.
00:26:16.040And so, but what we've got here is like the city of Ottawa.
00:26:19.140They bring in this cafe group and students and all sorts of people who then tell the city, oh, we have to save the planet.
00:26:25.820Well, they don't tell them some basic facts like China puts out as much emissions in four and a half hours as the city of Ottawa does in a whole year.
00:26:36.560And China is not limiting anything, of course.
00:26:38.780So, I mean, the basic facts of the issue are not understood by these people.
00:26:44.400So according to the Denning-Kruger effect, that's why they're so confident.
00:27:13.600He said, not only do we not have a good ability to forecast climate, but because it's so complicated, we may never be able to properly forecast climate.
00:27:25.180You know, so here we have one of the leading experts in the world being humble and saying this is an incredibly complex field.
00:27:33.760And yet the activists turn around and they say in the year 2100, the temperature is going to go through the roof and we'll have a climate catastrophe.
00:27:41.160They're so confident and yet they don't have a clue what they're talking about.
00:27:45.680And that is a great example of the Kruger-Denning effect.
00:27:49.660The less you know, the more you think you know.
00:27:52.980My mom used to say that some people are too stupid to know they're stupid.
00:27:56.560And I think that's her farmer colloquial way of explaining this.
00:28:02.620But I think there's a lot of it, and I know we're headed towards the philosophical now.
00:28:08.180A lot of it is, I think, that it's a lot easier to be an activist to say, you guys need to do something than it is to actually tangibly do something.
00:28:19.160And by that, I mean, I must have said 10 times when I was in Brazil, there's 55,000 official delegates here, probably half as many, again, climate change tourist types who are there for the activism.
00:28:33.440What a difference it would have made if each one of them went out for an hour every day with a black garbage bag.
00:28:42.780What a difference it would tangibly make for the real environment and to better the lives of the people who live in Bulem.
00:28:50.540But that stuff actually requires effort and not preening.
00:28:56.380It requires you to physically do something instead of to scream at other people to do something.
00:29:05.020And, you know, during the Committee for Environment and Climate Change here in Ottawa, there was a teacher who actually spoke to them.
00:29:12.600And she said, look, if a student came to me and said, I have a great new way of learning, the first and the student wanted the teacher to teach the whole class that way.
00:29:22.720The first thing I would say is, well, have you tried it yourself?
00:29:25.260And if the answer was no, the teacher said, well, I'd tell them to go away and try it yourself.
00:29:30.800So what she did, this speaker, Karen Brodeau, actually her name is, she said to the council, she said, look, why don't you take either a part of the city or all of you true believers and live the way you want the whole city to live and see how it works.
00:29:47.880Come back in a year and tell you if it works.
00:29:50.300So, you know, just in this week's interview on the America Out Loud, the other side of the story is our show there.
00:29:57.900We interviewed Francis Menton, who's with the Manhattan Contrarian.
00:30:02.920And he pointed out something really interesting.
00:30:04.860He said, there is one place in the world that actually tried to live the way the climate activists want us to live.
00:30:10.940Powering the whole society on wind and solar power, only driving, you know, electric vehicles or things like that, that kind of thing.
00:30:18.640And it's an island in the Canary Islands, okay, as part of Spain.
00:30:23.300What they did is they decided they were going to run the whole society on wind and solar power.
00:30:28.460And so they had a big crater, an extinct crater at the top of the hill, and they would pump water up the hill, store it until they needed the power, and they'll let it drain down.
00:30:37.560So it was an ideal place to try and find out if you could really run a modern society on wind and solar power with battery or, in this case, pump storage backup.
00:30:49.380They were not able to provide the power.
00:30:51.860And it was only a few tens of thousands of people.
00:30:53.960So in the one place in the world that actually tried to do what they're trying to force Calgary to do, what they're trying to force Ottawa to do, it was an abject failure.
00:31:04.620And so, you know, if you're trying to do any big project, you have a pilot project.
00:31:17.280But in this case, they want to commit full cities to this climate dogma, wind and solar power with battery backup, in the case of Ottawa, when nobody's ever tried it as a pilot study.
00:31:30.500In the one place in the world that did, it completely failed.
00:31:34.200So this is something that people have to bring up more and more and say, look, you want to change everything we're doing, but you can't demonstrate a pilot project where you ever did it.
00:31:43.080Right, right. And there's a reason we do things the way we do now, and that's because it was cold and miserable, and people died the other way.
00:31:52.960And that's what you see throughout history, is that the cold time periods had worse weather, failed crops.
00:31:59.040It was one of the things that led to the fall of the Roman Empire, the cooling, because no longer could the, you know, they say armies march on their stomach.
00:32:06.720Well, when the warmth was there, and there was, you know, lots of crop bounty all over the empire, they could always guarantee that they could steal food from somebody.
00:32:15.580But after a while, it became harder for the Roman legions to get around because the countryside was starving because it was cold, and there just wasn't as much food, you know.
00:32:24.820So, I mean, all through history, we have demonstrations of the opposite of what they're telling us, you know.
00:32:41.660And it's funny because different people you would think should be supporting the COP are not now.
00:32:48.540They're saying that this was a total failure, you know.
00:32:51.380In fact, the previous, what was her name, Kristen Figueres, she's saying that the COP is no longer fit for purpose.
00:32:58.300It can't actually accomplish what they're trying to do.
00:33:00.440It's interesting, this group, Javier Andalos Piretro of Spain's Ecologicas en Accion, he said, COP30 has been one of the most opaque summits in history.
00:33:13.940Yeah, the Brazilian presidency has been incapable of moving towards a final fair decision that would allow progress on climate change, to which I say, hooray.
00:36:03.280You know, it was worth it to see the hypocrisy, glaring hypocrisy for myself.
00:36:09.060And I got to see the rainforest before they ruin it.
00:36:11.840So did you see that Austria decided not to go because they were saying, look, for good rooms, we're going to have to pay a thousand dollars a night.
00:36:20.380And they said it's simply not worth the money.
00:36:22.600And I think what's going to happen is especially poorer nations are going to start saying, why would we spend all that money?
00:36:28.780And I wrote an article specifically on this, how much it costs millions and millions of dollars to send all these people all over the world.
00:37:24.620And on there I have a radio show along with Todd Royal, who's an energy expert out of Dallas, Texas, in which we call it the other side of the story.
00:37:33.320And last week we interviewed Francis Minton, as I said earlier, because he's the one who got on and talked about, hey, the only time they ever tried to do what they're telling us all to do, it failed.
00:37:44.160So the other side of the story on americaoutloud.news.
00:37:48.860Tom, thanks so much for coming on the show and explaining to me what happened inside of the United Nations Climate Change Conference, because I went all the way there just to be on the outside.
00:37:58.940But that's OK, because I found their highway.
00:38:16.760We want to see people helped adapting to climate change, people helped with poverty and sewage and everything else, not some fantasy about an invisible gas.
00:38:26.900You remember Patrick Moore's book, Fake Invisible Catastrophes.
00:40:01.380Um, in fact, the one time that I wasn't satisfied with the quality of the show that I did, and that was when I was at the ostrich farm, I filmed an extra one on the Friday just to make up for the sense of guilt that I had.
00:40:16.660Um, but when I felt like the show wasn't quite what you folks have subscribed for, I even did an extra one.
00:40:22.700But when I am busy like that, and I don't have time to book a guest and I'm dealing with time changes and things like that.
00:40:29.660Um, I, sometimes I have our email people send out, uh, an email asking for your questions so that you become the guest for the entire show.
00:40:41.180And I just sit down and answer your questions to me.
00:40:45.760And I answered some of those, but I saw there was one that came in a little bit late under the wire.
00:40:51.560And I thought I would, I would read that one today and react to it.
00:40:55.620Um, and for those of you who did get that email, and if you want to reply to it, um, I'll still see those.
00:41:03.980So if there's, you know, if there's still something about Bilem that you want to ask me about, and you have that email from me sitting in your inbox, the link should work still.
00:41:13.780And you can send the, the letter directly to me.
00:41:16.740Um, this one comes from Deb, who says, hello, and thank you for your interesting work and for giving us out the box info.
00:41:40.140And, and they don't have to participate.
00:41:42.920As Tom said, a lot of countries are just pulling out.
00:41:46.620I mean, the Americans really had no presence at the climate change conference.
00:41:50.220I was kind of excited because I wanted to see, um, what sort of trolly things Trump would do.
00:41:56.120You know, like, uh, when he was in his first term in, I think it was Bonn, Germany, he sent like fracking companies and coal companies to the climate change conference and put them in the American pavilion to showcase American innovation.
00:42:11.980And I thought, good, good, because the fracking Renaissance has actually lowered emissions in the United States.
00:42:18.840If you care about those sorts of things, I don't care about emissions, but if you do, you should be pro fracking.
00:42:23.720I'm pro fracking because I love cheap energy and cheap energy jobs.
00:42:29.260But if you care about emissions, you should be pro fracking, of course, the environmentalists or not.
00:42:34.620But to answer your question, the power that these organizations have over you is only bequeathed to them by your elected officials who say, okay, United Nations, tell us what to do to our people.
00:43:10.920Well, they only have authority over you insofar as Mark Carney, Justin Trudeau have decided to give them authority over you.
00:43:21.580So your only recourse as a Canadian is to unelect the people who keep giving authority over you to the United Nations.
00:43:29.600That has happened in the United States.
00:43:32.940In fact, it's even happened here in Alberta.
00:43:34.700Did you know that our government has passed a directive that we will not participate in treaties signed by the Canadian government without our agreement first?
00:43:49.800So if we don't want to participate in this stuff, we're just not going to, we're not just going to go along to get along because Mark Carney said we would.
00:43:58.080So I guess your ability to remove yourself from this as much as you can rests at the ballot box every four years and, you know, maybe a little bit more frequently than that, got to elect yourself a provincial government that says we're going to do what's best for the people of our respective province instead of just what Mark Carney says that we should do.