Rebel News Podcast - SHEILA GUNN REID ｜ What really happened at the United Nations climate change conference

00:00:00.000 55,000 people attended the United Nations Climate Change Conference in Bilem, Brazil.

00:00:06.140 And the good news is, regular people don't care anymore.

00:00:10.380 I'm Sheila Gunn-Reed, and you're watching The Gunn Show.

00:00:30.000 I hope I don't come across as someone who's scared of hard work, because I'm not.

00:00:35.620 But I will tell you that my trip to Bilem, Brazil, was one of the most difficult travel schedules that I've ever had for work in 10 years of doing this job.

00:00:49.280 And I'm including, like, the 3 a.m. wake-up calls in Winnipeg in the winter, working on a documentary to catch a flight.

00:01:01.140 Like, I cannot even explain how difficult the travel is to get from Western Canada on a budget to Bilem, Brazil.

00:01:11.500 And then to get back when 55,000 delegates and official types, plus, you know, another 20,000, 25,000 climate activist tourist types are all trying to leave a city at the exact same time and get back to the Western world.

00:01:28.480 Anyways, it was hell to try to do it on a budget.

00:01:31.320 I wasn't going to spend the amount of money it would take for it to be even remotely comfortable.

00:01:37.740 Um, but I think it was all worth it in the end to expose what the United Nations was doing in Bilem and how hypocritical they were.

00:01:51.560 That they descended on a city where 60% of the people live in abject poverty.

00:01:55.340 Uh, to lecture us about how we all need to do more to protect the rainforest.

00:02:03.540 When, as I explained in my interview, those delegates could have made a real difference in the health and welfare of the rainforest if they went one hour a day with a garbage bag.

00:02:13.960 And just picked up some trash in the streets of Bilem, Brazil.

00:02:17.100 It's the mouth of the Amazon.

00:02:18.740 And if you want to see all of my work from there, you can go to rebelun.com if you're so inclined, you can throw in a couple of bucks to help offset our costs, which I still think are accumulating.

00:02:33.180 Um, but the good news is for me is that I got home and while I was adjusting to jet lag and the Amazonian virus that I picked up while I was there, I saw the most comforting poll come out of abacus data.

00:02:53.340 And that was that 13% of people actually even care about climate change.

00:03:00.940 Now for me, I feel like that's still too high, but you know, those are 13% of the people who are brainwashed by their teachers, brainwashed by the CBC, still pick up their local newspaper and don't realize that the people writing there are funded to write about certain things.

00:03:15.820 But, uh, I'm grateful because I feel like my work has made an impact on that.

00:03:24.740 And so I think maybe, maybe we might be seeing the end of the climate scare.

00:03:30.880 I mean, we saw the end of the carbon tax over the last year and now people aren't even caring about climate change.

00:03:37.280 And I think the people who say they care about climate change only, I even feel like the number is probably lower because I think a lot of people say they care about climate change because they're told they should care about climate change, but they actually don't.

00:03:48.160 They more care about the cost of living.

00:03:50.180 So all that is to say, I think, I think nature is healing.

00:03:54.340 Now to discuss what happened in Bulem, Brazil from the inside, like what policy decisions were coming out of Bulem, Brazil today is my friend, Tom Harris from the International Climate Science Coalition in an interview we recorded just moments ago.

00:04:12.840 Take a listen.

00:04:13.360 So joining me now is good friend of the show, my friend and good friend to reality everywhere, Tom Harris from the International Climate Science Coalition, Canada.

00:04:31.160 Tom, I wanted to have you on the show to digest what happened at the United Nations Climate Change Conference in Bulem, Brazil.

00:04:39.360 It's known as COP30, the conference of the parties, but it really is the international gathering of the climate hypocrites.

00:04:48.060 And it was in a difficult place to get to, but also to work in Bulem, Brazil.

00:04:54.440 And I say work in if you are a real journalist trying to expose the truth.

00:05:00.060 It was actually probably quite comfortable to the world's journalists who got to be inside in the air conditioning.

00:05:07.040 But that wasn't the case for me. Tom, tell us what we need to know.

00:05:11.500 What are the big takeaways from the Climate Change Conference?

00:05:15.040 Yeah, I think the main thing is that for the very first time, they're addressing what they call information integrity.

00:05:22.480 In other words, the information is only valuable in their eyes if it agrees with them.

00:05:27.460 This is the first time that a UN conference actually addressed this.

00:05:30.940 And in particular, they're now blaming the lack of progress on climate change, you know, in their particular sphere of influence, on disinformation.

00:05:42.140 And they're saying it threatens to derail fragile progress on emissions reduction.

00:05:46.500 So somehow you and I are part of that.

00:05:48.880 We're actually responsible.

00:05:51.020 You know, I'm happy about that.

00:05:52.780 I am. I'm glad.

00:05:54.420 Yeah, it's in particular, it's called the Declaration on Information Integrity on Climate Change.

00:06:01.820 And you have to look at who was it put together by?

00:06:04.500 Well, it's put together by the government of Brazil, UNESCO, and the reporters sans frontières, which means reporters without border.

00:06:12.840 Now, they all explicitly support a climate emergency.

00:06:16.460 OK, so right away, the thing is obviously pretty, pretty biased.

00:06:19.660 And I was hoping to read just a few excerpts from it, because it's pretty draconian, actually.

00:06:25.840 It's saying, oh, and keeping into consideration freedom of expression.

00:06:29.900 But then they go on.

00:06:30.900 But then they go on to say some things that are certainly not.

00:06:35.000 How despicable, by the way, for reporters without borders to get involved in any of this, because they're really calling on censorship of people like you and I.

00:06:41.780 And I saw I experienced it firsthand when I was there.

00:06:44.420 I was accredited, and then all of a sudden I wasn't, which I think is, is it Article 19 of the United Nations Declaration on Human Rights?

00:06:54.100 That's the one that respects the free speech, free press, free thought, and your ability to transmit those ideas on the platform that you see fit.

00:07:04.280 Oh, yeah, for sure.

00:07:05.360 So here's some excerpts.

00:07:06.400 And they say, concerned by the growing impact of disinformation, misinformation, denialism, deliberate attacks on environmental journalists, defenders, scientists, researchers, and other public voices.

00:07:18.620 Well, hey, you know, that actually applies to what happens to us.

00:07:22.720 And this is a point that Terry Corcoran made in his article, which I'll quote from in a bit, because it was a very good article in the National Post, the Financial Post part.

00:07:30.440 And in particular, they're saying, we affirm our commitment to promote and support the sustainability of a diverse and resilient media ecosystem, unless it disagrees with them.

00:07:43.820 But here's what they call on governments to do.

00:07:46.680 Ensure the safety of environmental journalists, defenders, scientists, researchers, and other public voices.

00:07:51.780 Well, no, we're the ones that need to have the safety, but they're trying to make it look like we are attacking them personally and they're in danger.

00:07:59.840 Now, here's something that may affect Rebel News significantly.

00:08:03.940 It says, we call on governments to call on technology companies to assess whether and how platform architecture contributes to the undermining of climate information ecosystem integrity.

00:08:16.540 In other words, they want to actually change the algorithm so that we won't be noticed.

00:08:21.680 Right. And we've already seen a little bit of this in practice with the climate change warnings on videos that are critical.

00:08:31.200 If you go and look at any of Friends of Science's videos, they've got a warning on them like a cigarette package that, you know, that and it's coming directly from the United Nations.

00:08:41.700 And so this is Alphabet. That's the parent company of Google and YouTube already doing this in practice.

00:08:48.640 Well, yeah, exactly. YouTube does that with my videos, too.

00:08:51.720 They say, oh, you know, there really is a climate emergency.

00:08:54.800 And this video, you know, they essentially say, yeah, that's right.

00:08:58.560 Now, it's interesting because this declaration didn't actually happen in isolation.

00:09:03.420 There was a little bit of a pre-activity that led to it.

00:09:07.420 And I think it's important to look at that.

00:09:09.280 There's a report that came out in January of this year by the Center for Media, Technology and Democracy.

00:09:15.980 OK. And the report is called Climate Obstruction on the State and Spread of Climate Disinformation in Canada.

00:09:23.960 Now, this actually, you know, you have to realize that not only does this media center in McGill strongly support the climate scare.

00:09:31.120 So they're biased investigators. In fact, talking to Co-Pilot last night, it said, you know, they're not neutral.

00:09:37.340 They're not neutral investigators. They want to actually make it so that, you know, the only people being heard are the people who agree with them.

00:09:45.560 But they're actually they're funders.

00:09:47.500 The Max Bell Foundation, Canadian Internet Registration Authority.

00:09:52.880 They explicitly support action on climate change.

00:09:56.140 And they actually frame climate change as a serious challenge requiring and blah, blah, blah.

00:10:01.140 It goes on.

00:10:02.140 And this report analyzes how climate disinformation and what they called delayism, that's a new one, how it's spread in Canada and how platforms like YouTube are reluctant to regulate our activities.

00:10:15.820 And it says that climate disinformation is not only a social media problem, but is embedded in Canadian political culture and identity.

00:10:24.120 Now, isn't that interesting? That's why Guibo was there as the culture minister.

00:10:31.400 And, you know, it's interesting. Look, advocacy groups like Climate Citizens Climate Lobby Canada, they then highlighted the report in early 2025 as evidence of systemic obstruction to climate action.

00:10:44.760 OK, so it's interesting because that's what occurred right afterwards.

00:10:49.860 Now, then it got into cabinet, clearly, because there was a cabinet reshuffle in the spring.

00:10:55.780 Guibo moved to Canadian identity and culture and Julie Dramboussin became the environment minister.

00:11:02.380 So this report gave them ammunition to sign on to the United Nations Declaration on Information Integrity.

00:11:10.180 And so the report has given them kind of domestic legitimacy to sign on to this thing, because then they can point to it and say, oh, yes. 0.92

00:11:19.140 And of course, this is why we're not getting more done on climate change is because of these darn rebel news and ICSD people.

00:11:27.200 So, you know, Terry Corcoran had a really good quote.

00:11:29.420 And I think it was quite cute because he said, basically, let me see if I can find it here.

00:11:37.520 Well, what he's saying is it's not that the, you know, you always talk about speaking truth to power.

00:11:44.280 OK, but what is happening here is it's speaking power to the public, that the actual people in power are deciding what is true in science and telling us and suppressing everybody else.

00:11:57.200 So, you know, it's really worth looking at this in more detail.

00:12:00.840 And I was talking to Microsoft Copilot, who's my buddy.

00:12:05.380 Not always right.

00:12:06.800 You got to check out the references.

00:12:08.920 And yeah, and it could be that depending on how seriously the government takes this, and I think they're going to take it very seriously because they have this report to back them up.

00:12:17.560 And they're, of course, among the main drivers of trying to suppress this information, as they call it.

00:12:22.260 I think what we're going to see is a lot more censorship where YouTube and X and, you know, Twitter was, it is X, actually.

00:12:31.560 All these media sources are going to start, social media sources are going to start not only demonetizing, but they're going to start actually not even allowing us to post.

00:12:41.820 And the government will then point to this report and say, and, you know, that's exactly why.

00:12:46.160 So you have to take a step back and say, well, you know, what is driving all this?

00:12:52.860 Well, I've got to tell you some of the numbers, the actual financial figures that are involved here.

00:12:58.860 You might remember before COP29, which was the previous one, there was $100 billion set aside to help developing countries adapt to climate change.

00:13:09.440 Well, that wasn't enough, of course.

00:13:11.280 And so in COP29, they decided to make it $300 billion, okay?

00:13:16.400 And just this year, Canada announced a total investment of $392 million this year, just to support it.

00:13:23.700 And there's your $10 per Canadian, by the way.

00:13:26.400 So we just gave that.

00:13:27.500 Thank you very much, Mr. Carney.

00:13:28.580 Canada actually has a pledge, 2021 to 2026, to actually give $5.3 billion in total climate finance for developing countries.

00:13:41.680 And they are allocating 40% of that to go to adaptation.

00:13:45.680 And actually, they've given pretty well all that at this point.

00:13:48.540 Canada has, by late 2024, we've delivered $2.1 billion.

00:13:53.940 It's incredible.

00:13:55.180 Pumping it out of the country in adaptation projects.

00:13:58.880 But what it means is that over the next 13 months, we have to put in another $2.6 to $2.7 billion.

00:14:07.580 Yeah, that's right, to go to developing countries.

00:14:10.660 And most of that will go to mitigation projects because we've already given most of our adaptation money.

00:14:16.120 So Canada has to double the pace of disbursement, as they call it, in the next 13 months to meet our target.

00:14:23.520 Now, this is only part of a much bigger package when it comes to the international scene.

00:14:29.980 You know, the $300 billion sounds like a lot of money.

00:14:32.400 But it's actually now just part of a $1.3 trillion package that they want actually going yearly, if you can believe that, yearly by 2035.

00:14:43.500 But, you know, a lot of groups are saying that's still not enough.

00:14:47.160 So it's – and you have to ask yourself, well, how much have they given so far?

00:14:51.560 Well, of the $300 billion they've only given, like this year – remember, it's supposed to be $300 billion per year for adaptation.

00:14:59.060 This year, they'll have given $40 billion.

00:15:01.620 So what it means is between now and 2035, they have to multiply what we're giving, which is already huge, by seven.

00:15:11.340 Yeah, so we're pumping money out of the country at a furious rate.

00:15:15.340 And, of course, all this is based on nonsense.

00:15:18.660 And, you know, normally I don't cheer for bureaucratic – well, no, that's not true.

00:15:23.660 I do cheer for bureaucratic failure a lot these days.

00:15:26.820 But besides this declaration on censorship, not a lot came out of this conference.

00:15:33.920 They thought that this would be the conference to end all conferences and we would hit a hard timeline to phase out fossil fuels.

00:15:41.980 But that didn't happen.

00:15:43.620 And a lot of the NGOs and activist types are pretty dejected and angry.

00:15:48.260 In one of the notes he sent over to me, it says – oh, and it's from Sinead Lorin, I think is how I say it, of the Irish NGO Trocare.

00:16:00.020 And, again, I'm sure it's Gaelic and I'm sure I said it wrong.

00:16:03.400 But it said,

00:16:04.180 What an obnoxious thing for this person to say in a place like Belém.

00:16:30.120 And I mean that with nothing but affection and respect for the people who are forced to live in Belém.

00:16:36.760 But Belém lacks basic sanitation.

00:16:40.300 Like 4% of the wastewater in that city – actually, I think it's anywhere between 2.5% and 4% – is even treated.

00:16:49.200 Everything else is raw sewage outflows.

00:16:52.140 Medieval-style gutters in the street.

00:16:54.040 When you flush the toilet, it's not goodbye.

00:16:55.980 It's see you later.

00:16:56.960 It's down in the street.

00:16:58.360 And these sewage outflows go right out either into the bay, which touches on the Atlantic, or they wash back directly into the Amazon rainforest.

00:17:09.060 And I'm stuck over here in Canada being called a high-polluting state that's not doing enough.

00:17:14.740 And I can't use a plastic straw.

00:17:17.440 In the meantime, when the rains come in the Amazon, the streets run brown.

00:17:22.440 Oh, wow.

00:17:23.140 And this probably stinks to high heaven. 0.90

00:17:25.720 I mean, it's a cesspool.

00:17:27.440 You know, it's kind of amazing.

00:17:29.880 They're talking about protecting the environment while they're sitting in the middle of a cesspool.

00:17:33.820 You know, I think it was CFAQ who made this particular quote, and I think it's worth reading.

00:17:38.900 For those who believe sound science and affordable energy should prevail over ideological crusades,

00:17:45.520 COP's 30s collapse was not a tragedy.

00:17:48.040 It was a hard-won victory.

00:17:49.980 And I thought, yay, yay.

00:17:51.440 Because, I mean, everything went wrong.

00:17:53.840 You know, the contracting wasn't done properly.

00:17:56.080 You know, and you're right, because they have this declaration, which is the official outcome of the COP30 agreement.

00:18:02.520 I'll just tell you what it's called.

00:18:04.820 And I saw your reports, by the way, on the cesspool in Belém.

00:18:09.100 I mean, if they spent even a fraction of that amount of money on helping the people, they could clean the city up.

00:18:15.200 It could be the cleanest place in the world, you know.

00:18:18.160 But anyway, the outcome document is called Global Muchihon, is how you pronounce it in Portuguese.

00:18:25.180 I looked it up.

00:18:26.060 Global Muchihon.

00:18:27.080 And it actually has something in there which is quite deceptive.

00:18:32.000 They're saying they want to triple adaptation funding by 2035.

00:18:36.320 But there's two problems there.

00:18:38.460 First of all, you notice that the adaptation funding this year was $40 billion.

00:18:43.300 Tripling that, it would be $120 billion.

00:18:46.340 But what's not told is that the actual target agreed to in the various documents starting from last year is $300 billion.

00:18:53.620 So I asked Copilot, I said, well, that doesn't quite add up.

00:18:58.300 They're saying that they're tripling it, which is less than half of what they're actually committed to, which is $300 billion.

00:19:04.440 I said, so how does that work?

00:19:06.460 And Copilot, it's funny, you know, sometimes I think it has a sense of humor.

00:19:10.340 It says, well, the tripling is a political statement because it sounds good in news releases.

00:19:15.580 But it's not actually true.

00:19:17.380 They don't want to actually tell people how much they're really spending because it's outrageous.

00:19:21.320 So instead, they give a statement that is actually less than half of what they're really planning to spend in the hopes that we won't be too upset.

00:19:29.920 So in reality, that particular statement, tripling adaptation funding, no, actually, we're multiplying it by seven.

00:19:36.800 But the thing is that this document has no concrete mechanisms to raise and distribute adaptation and loss and damage fund.

00:19:45.220 And there's no enforcement, OK, so just like this fellow from Care International, Marlene Achoky, she said, the outcome is a failure.

00:19:55.480 There's no clarity on how much money is channeled to adaptation, where it will come from, its quality, or how progress would be measured.

00:20:02.700 Perfect.

00:20:03.080 So it's kind of like a wishful thing, a pie in the sky.

00:20:08.660 And it's interesting because Vanu, who's climate change minister, Ralph Ragu Vanu, or something like that, he said about 80 countries have put the red line on any mention of fossil fuels in the outcome of this meeting.

00:20:21.260 And that's the other point.

00:20:22.800 They were, in the previous COPs, actually agreeing to gradually phase out fossil fuels.

00:20:28.640 In this COP, they couldn't even get agreement to that.

00:20:31.060 So they've gone backwards, which is wonderful.

00:20:34.100 I think it's great.

00:20:34.900 And it's interesting to see the countries that objected, including China.

00:20:38.500 You know, China, of course, took the leadership role at this event because they're supposedly so green, even though, what, they're opening something like two coal stations a week.

00:20:47.340 But, you know, they're green in their exports because they sell it to us.

00:20:52.140 So all of these arrangements, the COP30 and everything else, is massively to the benefit of China because suckers in the West are buying green energy from China.

00:21:03.020 You know, so the adaptation funding business is not, you know, it does make sense if you focused on all kinds of adaptation because, of course, cooling is much more dangerous than warming.

00:21:14.520 But typically, you know, these groups only focus on warming.

00:21:17.940 You know, Sheila, it's a little bit like going on a camping trip.

00:21:21.540 I think I might have said this to you earlier.

00:21:23.460 And you're told that there is black flies and black bears in a particular region.

00:21:28.720 And, you know, black bears can kill you.

00:21:31.220 Black flies are a nuisance.

00:21:32.320 But all you do is prepare for the black flies.

00:21:34.980 Right.

00:21:35.180 And that would be insane because, you know, and that's what's happening here, because if it cools, we're in big trouble.

00:21:42.560 And you can see that all through the historical record when it was cold.

00:21:46.120 And it may get colder because the sun is going into a grand solar minimum around 2060.

00:21:52.100 When it cools, society does really badly.

00:21:55.220 Sure.

00:21:55.420 And yet, for example, the city of Ottawa, in their adaptation funding, only plans for warming.

00:22:02.340 They're not even looking at the possibility of much more dangerous cooling for the black bears, you know.

00:22:07.760 Well, yeah.

00:22:08.480 I mean, Calgary is the same way.

00:22:10.120 Ninety million dollars or ninety billion dollars, excuse me, in their climate change program.

00:22:15.720 But they can't manage to get the snow cleared down there.

00:22:19.980 I know.

00:22:20.300 So if it were true that they were adapting or preparing to adapt to the most dangerous kind of climate change, which is cooling, then some of this would make sense.

00:22:29.120 But the trouble is they're only planning for the black flies.

00:22:32.500 They're only planning for the annoying warming, which is not dangerous.

00:22:36.100 And historically, you know, you look through all the records, the medieval warm period.

00:22:40.060 That's when they built the great cathedrals, the Roman Roman warm period.

00:22:43.940 You know, that's when they had the Pax Romana, you know, and you go through all history and you find that warming is good.

00:22:49.860 So, you know, I've often said that I've never seen a field where every single point they make is either wrong or hugely exaggerated.

00:22:59.220 They're wrong.

00:23:00.020 CO2 is good for the earth.

00:23:01.780 It's good for humanity.

00:23:03.140 It causes more plant growth and more crop productivity.

00:23:06.480 Boost it.

00:23:06.980 We want to double it.

00:23:07.840 We want to triple it.

00:23:08.720 We're wrong there.

00:23:10.300 Warming is good.

00:23:11.280 And yet they're focusing on it as being bad.

00:23:13.260 So, I mean, the whole thing is based on a farce, really.

00:23:16.260 They're taking everything that is real and turning it on its head.

00:23:19.760 Do you know, I sort of figured out that the UN knows that the wheels are coming off the train right now.

00:23:30.220 And actually, I think when they held the conference in Dubai two years ago and then in Azerbaijan,

00:23:38.720 Iran last year, two countries that are exceedingly oil rich and who both said, yeah, we're not going to stop drilling for oil.

00:23:48.520 We're happy that you're here.

00:23:50.180 We'll take the tourism dollars.

00:23:51.680 Thank you very much.

00:23:52.780 Yeah, it's true.

00:23:53.360 But, and I think, I think even the United Nations knows that people really don't care anymore.

00:24:01.220 And I'll tell you how I know, despite climate change being shoved down our throat everywhere we turn, in the mainstream media, in local print newspapers, because the government literally funds a guy at your local Fort Saskatchewan record, in my case, to write about climate change.

00:24:21.760 Nobody cares anymore.

00:24:24.380 Abacus data, latest poll, 13% of people actually have climate change as an issue they even care about.

00:24:32.140 The number one issue is driven by climate change policies, and that's the cost of living.

00:24:38.220 So I think we're nearing the end.

00:24:40.440 I believe nature is healing.

00:24:42.460 Yeah.

00:24:42.800 Canada seems to be a little behind in this category.

00:24:45.740 We're seeing countries all over the world that are going back to solid energy sources, like, quite frankly, coal.

00:24:52.500 I wish.

00:24:53.540 Yeah, and coal using the latest technology is a very valuable source.

00:24:57.840 But, you know, Sheila, I wanted to ask you a question.

00:25:00.420 My impression is that most of the people arguing and, you know, going into protests and stuff, they don't really know what they're talking about.

00:25:07.600 No.

00:25:07.800 And I wanted to bring you up to date on a really interesting study that was done.

00:25:11.960 It was called the Denning, Kruger-Denning study, okay?

00:25:16.600 And they called it the Kruger-Denning effect, actually.

00:25:19.160 It came out a little few years ago.

00:25:20.800 What they found when they asked people questions about things to do with logic and things to do with language, they asked them questions, and then they asked them how confident were they that their answer was right?

00:25:33.340 And what they found was that the less a person knew about a field, the more confident they were that they were right.

00:25:40.540 You're being kind in your assessment. 0.99

00:25:43.620 My understanding of the Denning-Kruger effect is the dumber you are, the smarter you think you are. 1.00

00:25:48.500 Yeah. 0.99

00:25:49.180 And the smart people who actually understood the field that they were asking about actually underestimated their accuracy.

00:25:57.320 And so it's actually turned upside down.

00:25:59.560 So what you have is all these people painting things on their hands and their face and everything else.

00:26:04.020 My dad used to say, look, if these people spend as much time in the library back in those days learning about the field, they probably wouldn't protest in the first place because they may find that the whole thing is bunk.

00:26:16.040 And so, but what we've got here is like the city of Ottawa.

00:26:19.140 They bring in this cafe group and students and all sorts of people who then tell the city, oh, we have to save the planet.

00:26:25.820 Well, they don't tell them some basic facts like China puts out as much emissions in four and a half hours as the city of Ottawa does in a whole year.

00:26:36.560 And China is not limiting anything, of course.

00:26:38.780 So, I mean, the basic facts of the issue are not understood by these people.

00:26:44.400 So according to the Denning-Kruger effect, that's why they're so confident.

00:26:48.900 You know, it's true.

00:26:51.080 I mean, as you learn more about things in life, I think you find you become more humble because you recognize that life is complicated.

00:26:59.300 You know, there's all kinds of ins and outs of why the greenhouse effect does or doesn't work.

00:27:03.600 And it's very complicated.

00:27:05.460 And many scientists say Chris Essex, he's a great example.

00:27:09.300 He was a applied mathematician at the University of Western Ontario.

00:27:12.620 He's now retired.

00:27:13.600 He said, not only do we not have a good ability to forecast climate, but because it's so complicated, we may never be able to properly forecast climate.

00:27:25.180 You know, so here we have one of the leading experts in the world being humble and saying this is an incredibly complex field.

00:27:32.720 We may never be.

00:27:33.760 And yet the activists turn around and they say in the year 2100, the temperature is going to go through the roof and we'll have a climate catastrophe.

00:27:41.160 They're so confident and yet they don't have a clue what they're talking about.

00:27:45.680 And that is a great example of the Kruger-Denning effect.

00:27:49.660 The less you know, the more you think you know.

00:27:52.760 Yeah. 1.00

00:27:52.980 My mom used to say that some people are too stupid to know they're stupid. 1.00

00:27:56.560 And I think that's her farmer colloquial way of explaining this. 1.00

00:28:02.620 But I think there's a lot of it, and I know we're headed towards the philosophical now.

00:28:08.180 A lot of it is, I think, that it's a lot easier to be an activist to say, you guys need to do something than it is to actually tangibly do something.

00:28:19.160 And by that, I mean, I must have said 10 times when I was in Brazil, there's 55,000 official delegates here, probably half as many, again, climate change tourist types who are there for the activism.

00:28:33.440 What a difference it would have made if each one of them went out for an hour every day with a black garbage bag.

00:28:42.780 What a difference it would tangibly make for the real environment and to better the lives of the people who live in Bulem.

00:28:50.540 But that stuff actually requires effort and not preening.

00:28:56.380 It requires you to physically do something instead of to scream at other people to do something.

00:29:03.380 Yeah.

00:29:04.080 Yeah, exactly.

00:29:05.020 And, you know, during the Committee for Environment and Climate Change here in Ottawa, there was a teacher who actually spoke to them.

00:29:12.600 And she said, look, if a student came to me and said, I have a great new way of learning, the first and the student wanted the teacher to teach the whole class that way.

00:29:22.720 The first thing I would say is, well, have you tried it yourself?

00:29:25.260 And if the answer was no, the teacher said, well, I'd tell them to go away and try it yourself.

00:29:30.800 So what she did, this speaker, Karen Brodeau, actually her name is, she said to the council, she said, look, why don't you take either a part of the city or all of you true believers and live the way you want the whole city to live and see how it works.

00:29:47.880 Come back in a year and tell you if it works.

00:29:50.300 So, you know, just in this week's interview on the America Out Loud, the other side of the story is our show there.

00:29:57.900 We interviewed Francis Menton, who's with the Manhattan Contrarian. 0.97

00:30:02.920 And he pointed out something really interesting.

00:30:04.860 He said, there is one place in the world that actually tried to live the way the climate activists want us to live.

00:30:10.940 Powering the whole society on wind and solar power, only driving, you know, electric vehicles or things like that, that kind of thing.

00:30:18.640 And it's an island in the Canary Islands, okay, as part of Spain.

00:30:23.300 What they did is they decided they were going to run the whole society on wind and solar power.

00:30:27.240 And it was a volcanic island.

00:30:28.460 And so they had a big crater, an extinct crater at the top of the hill, and they would pump water up the hill, store it until they needed the power, and they'll let it drain down.

00:30:37.560 So it was an ideal place to try and find out if you could really run a modern society on wind and solar power with battery or, in this case, pump storage backup.

00:30:47.640 And they totally failed.

00:30:49.380 They were not able to provide the power.

00:30:51.860 And it was only a few tens of thousands of people.

00:30:53.960 So in the one place in the world that actually tried to do what they're trying to force Calgary to do, what they're trying to force Ottawa to do, it was an abject failure.

00:31:04.620 And so, you know, if you're trying to do any big project, you have a pilot project.

00:31:08.560 They do it with media.

00:31:09.660 Before they commit to a full-blown series, they have a pilot.

00:31:13.360 They try it out, and they see if the public are interested.

00:31:16.100 And if they're not, they don't do it.

00:31:17.280 But in this case, they want to commit full cities to this climate dogma, wind and solar power with battery backup, in the case of Ottawa, when nobody's ever tried it as a pilot study.

00:31:30.500 In the one place in the world that did, it completely failed.

00:31:34.200 So this is something that people have to bring up more and more and say, look, you want to change everything we're doing, but you can't demonstrate a pilot project where you ever did it.

00:31:43.080 Right, right. And there's a reason we do things the way we do now, and that's because it was cold and miserable, and people died the other way.

00:31:51.620 Yeah, yeah, exactly.

00:31:52.960 And that's what you see throughout history, is that the cold time periods had worse weather, failed crops.

00:31:59.040 It was one of the things that led to the fall of the Roman Empire, the cooling, because no longer could the, you know, they say armies march on their stomach.

00:32:06.720 Well, when the warmth was there, and there was, you know, lots of crop bounty all over the empire, they could always guarantee that they could steal food from somebody.

00:32:15.580 But after a while, it became harder for the Roman legions to get around because the countryside was starving because it was cold, and there just wasn't as much food, you know.

00:32:24.820 So, I mean, all through history, we have demonstrations of the opposite of what they're telling us, you know.

00:32:31.020 It's just, it's nutty.

00:32:32.860 Yeah, what was it, the volcanic winter of 1536 or something?

00:32:38.280 Oh, yeah, very, Mount Pinatubo and all kinds of ones.

00:32:40.840 Yeah.

00:32:41.660 And it's funny because different people you would think should be supporting the COP are not now.

00:32:48.540 They're saying that this was a total failure, you know.

00:32:51.380 In fact, the previous, what was her name, Kristen Figueres, she's saying that the COP is no longer fit for purpose.

00:32:58.300 It can't actually accomplish what they're trying to do.

00:33:00.440 It's interesting, this group, Javier Andalos Piretro of Spain's Ecologicas en Accion, he said, COP30 has been one of the most opaque summits in history.

00:33:12.400 I second that.

00:33:13.940 Yeah, the Brazilian presidency has been incapable of moving towards a final fair decision that would allow progress on climate change, to which I say, hooray.

00:33:22.600 Yeah, big goodness.

00:33:23.880 The wheels are falling off this insane thing.

00:33:26.520 And, you know, the fact that they now, you know, it's sort of funny, you ask somebody for a $5 donation, they give you 50 cents.

00:33:33.480 So next time you ask them for $50, they give you 10 cents.

00:33:36.720 You know, I mean, that's what's happening here.

00:33:38.680 They have a $1.3 trillion target.

00:33:41.460 Hey, we're not even hitting a tiny fraction of that at this point, but they charge ahead anyway.

00:33:47.620 Well, I'm glad.

00:33:50.060 I'm glad.

00:33:50.500 We can bury it.

00:33:52.580 Yeah, thank goodness.

00:33:54.160 And what, 56,000 people gobbling up airline fuel to get to a conference telling you not to fly.

00:34:03.300 Right.

00:34:03.800 And telling me to protect the rainforest.

00:34:06.620 Yeah.

00:34:07.280 While they redirected the sewage from the conference through a favela and then out into the bay.

00:34:16.680 And they're telling me I've got to protect the rainforest.

00:34:19.280 Excuse me?

00:34:20.620 You have to protect the rainforest.

00:34:22.240 When you start protecting the rainforest, I'll start taking you people seriously.

00:34:26.280 Right.

00:34:26.380 But it's not my problem.

00:34:29.800 You'd laugh at here that someone who actually starts to agree with you, Sheila, because you did a whole lot on how that was a cesspool.

00:34:36.340 And, hey, these people need help.

00:34:38.360 They do.

00:34:38.860 If that money had gone to helping them, they could have accomplished something real.

00:34:41.720 You know who's actually starting to agree with you is Bill Gates.

00:34:44.540 Bill Gates is now.

00:34:46.160 Yeah, he's off the climate catastrophe thing.

00:34:48.140 And he says, look, there's a lot more important things than a tenth of a degree or even a degree.

00:34:52.760 He's saying, let's help people in the real world today.

00:34:56.040 So we're seeing even the left wing are starting to move over to a practical point of view.

00:35:01.340 And I think that, yeah, we're going to have a couple more cops.

00:35:04.560 But, you know, people reported on page 16, lower in the right.

00:35:08.180 Exactly.

00:35:08.600 There was a cop, you know, and 100,000 people went to it.

00:35:11.760 You know, the biggest one in history was 80,000 plus in Ketare.

00:35:17.380 I mean, it's just crazy.

00:35:19.440 But when I went to the Copenhagen Climate Conference back in 2009, that was the biggest conference in the history of the world.

00:35:28.720 It was 30,000.

00:35:30.440 Now with the one, you know, just two cops ago, we're up to 80,000.

00:35:34.440 So I think what's happening is left wingers are starting to wake up and say, hey, you know, we're really interested in social justice.

00:35:40.820 If we really want to protect the environment, let's not do this.

00:35:44.460 This is insane.

00:35:45.280 Yeah.

00:35:46.100 You know what, though?

00:35:46.760 It's funny because these cops have ballooned in size only thanks to the interconnectivity provided by our old friend, fossil fuels.

00:35:54.920 Yeah.

00:35:55.600 You know?

00:35:57.420 So this is a good day.

00:35:59.120 You know, you had to go through torture to get there and then not get into the conference.

00:36:02.320 It was worth it. 0.91

00:36:03.280 You know, it was worth it to see the hypocrisy, glaring hypocrisy for myself.

00:36:09.060 And I got to see the rainforest before they ruin it.

00:36:11.840 So did you see that Austria decided not to go because they were saying, look, for good rooms, we're going to have to pay a thousand dollars a night.

00:36:20.380 And they said it's simply not worth the money.

00:36:22.600 And I think what's going to happen is especially poorer nations are going to start saying, why would we spend all that money?

00:36:28.780 And I wrote an article specifically on this, how much it costs millions and millions of dollars to send all these people all over the world.

00:36:36.060 You know, it's going to fail.

00:36:37.560 And eventually it'll fail for practical reasons, like it costs a lot of money and doesn't do anything.

00:36:43.200 Right.

00:36:43.980 Right.

00:36:44.460 Exactly.

00:36:45.180 And now that they're holding them in not so nice places, it's not quite the party that it used to be.

00:36:52.020 But Tom, before I let you go, tell people how they can find the work that you do and support the work that you do.

00:36:58.940 Yeah, for sure.

00:36:59.760 Well, first of all, our homepage is ICSC-Canada.com.

00:37:03.540 We're a nonprofit.

00:37:05.100 And on our board, we have people like Patrick Moore, you know, so we have some pretty heavyweights involved.

00:37:10.680 And, yeah, we'd love a donation.

00:37:12.440 People can donate by clicking our big red donate button because we rely on people like you and others to support us.

00:37:17.820 You can follow my work that I'm doing mostly with America Out Loud.

00:37:22.700 It's americaoutloud.news.

00:37:24.620 And on there I have a radio show along with Todd Royal, who's an energy expert out of Dallas, Texas, in which we call it the other side of the story.

00:37:33.320 And last week we interviewed Francis Minton, as I said earlier, because he's the one who got on and talked about, hey, the only time they ever tried to do what they're telling us all to do, it failed.

00:37:44.160 So the other side of the story on americaoutloud.news.

00:37:48.220 Great.

00:37:48.860 Tom, thanks so much for coming on the show and explaining to me what happened inside of the United Nations Climate Change Conference, because I went all the way there just to be on the outside.

00:37:58.940 But that's OK, because I found their highway.

00:38:01.720 Right.

00:38:02.560 And thank you for going and exposing what Belém is really like.

00:38:06.380 Yeah.

00:38:06.680 And, you know, where the target of our assistance should be.

00:38:09.660 It should be on helping real people in the real world.

00:38:12.480 So, you know, when people say, oh, you're heartless, you don't care.

00:38:15.240 No, that's the opposite.

00:38:16.660 Right.

00:38:16.760 We want to see people helped adapting to climate change, people helped with poverty and sewage and everything else, not some fantasy about an invisible gas.

00:38:26.900 You remember Patrick Moore's book, Fake Invisible Catastrophes.

00:38:30.160 Yes.

00:38:30.320 That was the beginning of his headline.

00:38:32.140 And his point was that, you know, these things are things you can't see.

00:38:36.160 How many people can go and count polar bears or see how much CO2 is in the atmosphere?

00:38:40.580 We can't.

00:38:41.140 So we have to rely on people to tell us, experts who in many cases have vested interests.

00:38:45.820 Sure.

00:38:46.180 Let's focus on real things that we can see.

00:38:48.840 Right.

00:38:50.400 Alleviating the suffering of real people in the world instead of lining the pockets of rich elites.

00:38:57.220 Tom, thanks so much for coming on the show.

00:38:59.380 We'll have you back on again very soon.

00:39:00.720 OK.

00:39:01.200 Thank you, Sheila.

00:39:02.180 Thanks.

00:39:02.480 All right.

00:39:10.880 Well, the last portion of the show goes directly to you.

00:39:13.700 Without you, there's no Rebel News.

00:39:14.960 So you are really the second guest of the show.

00:39:17.280 If you want to write me an email, tell me what you thought about the show.

00:39:20.100 It's Sheila at rebelnews.com.

00:39:21.680 Put gun show letters in the subject line so I know exactly why you're emailing me.

00:39:25.380 If not, leave a comment wherever you find a free clip of the show.

00:39:30.560 Share those free clips of the show with your friends so that we can convert them into subscribers.

00:39:35.100 You'll find them on YouTube over on Rumble, too.

00:39:37.380 And I frequently go looking for comments over there.

00:39:40.600 So today's letter actually comes to me from a very special email I sent out when I was in Bulem, Brazil.

00:39:51.000 You see, I still had a show to film for our subscribers.

00:39:55.020 I've never missed a show in 10 years of doing the show.

00:39:59.500 And I'm not about to start now.

00:40:01.380 Um, in fact, the one time that I wasn't satisfied with the quality of the show that I did, and that was when I was at the ostrich farm, I filmed an extra one on the Friday just to make up for the sense of guilt that I had.

00:40:14.800 So I never missed a show.

00:40:16.660 Um, but when I felt like the show wasn't quite what you folks have subscribed for, I even did an extra one.

00:40:22.700 But when I am busy like that, and I don't have time to book a guest and I'm dealing with time changes and things like that.

00:40:29.660 Um, I, sometimes I have our email people send out, uh, an email asking for your questions so that you become the guest for the entire show.

00:40:41.180 And I just sit down and answer your questions to me.

00:40:44.080 And that happened.

00:40:45.760 And I answered some of those, but I saw there was one that came in a little bit late under the wire.

00:40:51.560 And I thought I would, I would read that one today and react to it.

00:40:55.620 Um, and for those of you who did get that email, and if you want to reply to it, um, I'll still see those.

00:41:03.980 So if there's, you know, if there's still something about Bilem that you want to ask me about, and you have that email from me sitting in your inbox, the link should work still.

00:41:13.780 And you can send the, the letter directly to me.

00:41:16.740 Um, this one comes from Deb, who says, hello, and thank you for your interesting work and for giving us out the box info.

00:41:23.660 Okay.

00:41:24.820 My question is who gave the UN and, uh, W.O. power to dictate climate change and other directives?

00:41:35.600 Well, we didn't.

00:41:38.620 Our elected officials did.

00:41:40.140 And, and they don't have to participate.

00:41:42.920 As Tom said, a lot of countries are just pulling out.

00:41:46.620 I mean, the Americans really had no presence at the climate change conference.

00:41:50.220 I was kind of excited because I wanted to see, um, what sort of trolly things Trump would do.

00:41:56.120 You know, like, uh, when he was in his first term in, I think it was Bonn, Germany, he sent like fracking companies and coal companies to the climate change conference and put them in the American pavilion to showcase American innovation.

00:42:11.980 And I thought, good, good, because the fracking Renaissance has actually lowered emissions in the United States.

00:42:18.840 If you care about those sorts of things, I don't care about emissions, but if you do, you should be pro fracking.

00:42:23.720 I'm pro fracking because I love cheap energy and cheap energy jobs.

00:42:29.260 But if you care about emissions, you should be pro fracking, of course, the environmentalists or not.

00:42:34.620 But to answer your question, the power that these organizations have over you is only bequeathed to them by your elected officials who say, okay, United Nations, tell us what to do to our people.

00:42:53.720 I know.

00:42:54.720 I know.

00:42:55.720 It's chilling.

00:42:56.720 You ask, did we vote them in?

00:42:59.120 Are they elected officials?

00:43:00.320 No.

00:43:01.320 And no.

00:43:02.320 How did they get their authority?

00:43:04.380 And if they don't legally have it, then why are they the voice over countries?

00:43:08.420 I don't understand.

00:43:09.920 Thank you.

00:43:10.920 Well, they only have authority over you insofar as Mark Carney, Justin Trudeau have decided to give them authority over you.

00:43:21.580 So your only recourse as a Canadian is to unelect the people who keep giving authority over you to the United Nations.

00:43:29.600 That has happened in the United States.

00:43:32.940 In fact, it's even happened here in Alberta.

00:43:34.700 Did you know that our government has passed a directive that we will not participate in treaties signed by the Canadian government without our agreement first?

00:43:49.800 So if we don't want to participate in this stuff, we're just not going to, we're not just going to go along to get along because Mark Carney said we would.

00:43:58.080 So I guess your ability to remove yourself from this as much as you can rests at the ballot box every four years and, you know, maybe a little bit more frequently than that, got to elect yourself a provincial government that says we're going to do what's best for the people of our respective province instead of just what Mark Carney says that we should do.

00:44:22.320 All right.

00:44:22.960 Well, everybody, that's the show for today.

00:44:24.420 Thank you so much for tuning in.

00:44:25.720 I'll see everybody back here in the same time, maybe in the same place also, maybe next week.

00:44:30.360 And as always, remember, don't let the government tell you that you've had too much to think.

Rebel News Podcast - November 27, 2025

SHEILA GUNN REID ｜ What really happened at the United Nations climate change conference

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