Rebel News Podcast - SPECIAL： Robert Spencer on his new book, “The History of Jihad： From Muhammad to ISIS”

00:00:00.000 Tonight, the history of jihad, an in-depth discussion with Jihad Watch's Robert Spencer on his new book.

00:00:06.480 It's June 29th and you're watching The Ezra LeVant Show.

00:00:14.820 Why should others go to jail when you're a biggest carbon consumer I know?

00:00:18.640 There's 8,500 customers here and you won't give them an answer.

00:00:22.360 You come here once a year with a sign and you feel morally superior.

00:00:25.340 The only thing I have to say to the government about why I publish it is because it's my bloody right to do so.

00:00:36.080 Well, I don't think that most people in the world knew a lot about the word jihad until 9-11, September 11th, 2001.

00:00:44.060 We certainly didn't know words that are too familiar to us now like Al Jazeera.

00:00:48.820 We just didn't know these things, Al Qaeda or its successor, ISIS.

00:00:53.020 But the fact is, this jihad has been going on for a lot longer than just 17 years.

00:00:59.240 In fact, it's been going on for more than 1,000 years.

00:01:02.540 It is hardwired into the history of Islam.

00:01:06.680 And our next guest is not just an expert in jihad, but has written a new book about it called The History of Jihad, From Muhammad to ISIS.

00:01:17.640 And Robert Spencer, the director of Jihad Watch, joins us now.

00:01:21.040 Robert, nice to see you again.

00:01:23.020 Always good to see you, Ezra. Thank you.

00:01:25.060 Well, thank you.

00:01:25.840 Your book is coming out on August 7th.

00:01:29.560 I just read the blurb of it.

00:01:32.660 We forget that jihad against infidels, against the West, it's not a new thing. 1.00

00:01:40.160 It's not something that's just been invented by radicalized, you know, people who are disenfranchised.

00:01:47.640 This is part of the Islamic battle strategy since the beginning. 0.87

00:01:52.060 Yes.

00:01:52.660 That's what this book shows, as a matter of fact.

00:01:54.620 This is the first and only book that actually contains the entire history of jihad, starting with Muhammad and going all over the world.

00:02:02.000 The first book that treats the jihad in India, along with the jihad in Europe and Africa, the Middle East, everywhere.

00:02:09.520 And the thing about it is you're absolutely right.

00:02:11.340 A lot of people, they might say, well, yes, of course, jihad is part of Islamic theology or teaching.

00:02:16.480 But they don't realize our entire foreign policy in the West is based on the idea that jihad is a new thing, that is a reaction to what the American government has done or what European governments have done or what Israel has done.

00:02:31.660 And if we can just adjust all those things, then it will go away and there will be peace.

00:02:36.200 But as I show in this book, there's never been peace.

00:02:39.240 This is something that is based on theological tenets within Islam that some Muslims in the world have always, for 1400 years, acted upon.

00:02:49.200 And one of the reasons it's important to know that is you often hear the excuse by the left, well, we provoke that.

00:02:57.580 Western foreign policy in Iraq provoked that.

00:03:03.140 Western, you know, the CIA's shenanigans in Iran provoked it.

00:03:07.700 They have a very specific thing that they don't like for their own modern political reasons.

00:03:13.340 And they ascribe to that one act.

00:03:16.820 They provide an excuseology for jihad that jihadists often accept because, you know, there's an entitlement, there's an anger and a sullen, you have wronged us, I think, at the root of jihad.

00:03:28.880 But it would exist whether or not, you know, Western powers had oil interests, whether or not Israel existed.

00:03:39.440 The jihad began before these excuses began, didn't it?

00:03:44.520 Yeah, absolutely.

00:03:45.400 And see, the left plays into the jihadis' hands by claiming that it's all because of terrible things that the West has done or that Israel has done.

00:03:54.100 Because the jihadis operate according to a grievance mentality and are always blaming other people.

00:04:00.020 That's a common thread throughout the book.

00:04:02.040 You see that jihadis attack people in an entirely unprovoked fashion, but then claim victim status and blame the victim.

00:04:09.680 And we have this going on now on a pandemic scale.

00:04:14.240 And I think people fall – the left has completely fallen for it and is actually aiding and abetting it and spreading the idea that this is really all our fault.

00:04:22.260 But as you say in the book, I show that before there was Israel, before there was a United States, before any of the things that are blamed for jihad activity today, there was still jihad.

00:04:34.160 And that the infidels didn't do anything but be infidels to bring it on themselves. 1.00

00:04:38.900 You know, I read a book years ago by Bernard Lewis called What Went Wrong, which described how Islam was once geographically mighty. 0.99

00:04:48.940 It was in Spain and he was even nibbling Ireland, like there were hostage raids in the UK.

00:04:56.020 And Bernard Lewis, who is fascinated and I would say in many ways loves the Muslim world, said, well, what happened?

00:05:03.800 Why did they become so backward and closed? 1.00

00:05:05.800 And I mean, it's a great question, what went wrong.

00:05:08.700 And he suggests that it's not an Islamic question to ask what went wrong.

00:05:12.900 The Islamic question is, who did this to us?

00:05:15.160 That's sort of his thesis.

00:05:16.780 But what shocked me about that book – there are so many interesting things.

00:05:20.560 It's an incredible book – is there's a map in that book I mentioned that shows the extent of the Muslim caliphate, I suppose, at its height.

00:05:29.140 And I want to talk about – because I read a little historical anecdote about Baltimore.

00:05:34.940 I didn't know that there was a place in Ireland called Baltimore.

00:05:37.600 I thought that was just the name of a city in Maryland.

00:05:40.040 And apparently there was a Muslim slave raid on Ireland.

00:05:46.120 And they targeted this town of Baltimore and they kidnapped white slaves.

00:05:53.440 And they went in and they just sort of grabbed them. 0.96

00:05:56.780 And women were turned into rape slaves and the men were killed or converted.

00:06:02.260 And I thought – now, I want to do more research in that because I was just shocked.

00:06:06.140 I mean, I didn't even know there was another city called Baltimore.

00:06:07.900 But I know from Bernard Lewis's book that these slave raids touched the United Kingdom, touched Ireland.

00:06:17.300 I don't think – I mean, I think I know a lot of stuff about Islam and jihad. 0.61

00:06:21.580 I didn't know that.

00:06:23.600 Yeah.

00:06:24.080 Well, all that's in my book as well.

00:06:25.840 The raid in Baltimore in Ireland actually was on a church.

00:06:29.700 And the church was crowded with people.

00:06:31.380 It was during a worship service.

00:06:32.820 And the jihadis came in.

00:06:34.740 They just seized everybody in the church and enslaved them, carried them off. 0.99

00:06:39.720 And as you say, the women were made into sex slaves. 1.00

00:06:42.160 A lot of people think ISIS made that up or Boko Haram made that up.

00:06:46.340 That's another thing that's in the book that goes as a thread all the way through it.

00:06:51.040 Muhammad had sex slaves that were infidel women whom he had captured. 0.98

00:06:55.020 And all the early caliphs, the early raiders in Spain who conquered Spain in the 8th century,

00:07:00.540 the raiders in India who conquered so much of India and were very brutal there. 0.55

00:07:06.560 And always this is something that they did, made sex slaves out of the captive infidel women. 1.00

00:07:12.220 It's part of the theology they were working from.

00:07:15.200 And this is why ISIS picked it up today.

00:07:17.860 Now, what year was that raid in Baltimore?

00:07:20.000 I was just reading it quickly.

00:07:21.280 I was so fascinated by it.

00:07:23.020 And I just thought I'd put it to you.

00:07:25.060 Like, was that 500 years ago, 700 years ago?

00:07:27.980 How recent was that?

00:07:30.200 You know, off the top of my head, I don't recall exactly, but I think it was in the 17th century.

00:07:34.360 So that's not...

00:07:34.700 So that would be, yeah, 400 or 500 years ago.

00:07:37.300 It wasn't all that long ago.

00:07:38.340 Like, that's post-Shakespeare.

00:07:40.260 I mean, Shakespeare writes about Islam.

00:07:42.540 I mean, he talks about the Moor of Venice.

00:07:45.080 Moors were typically Muslim. 1.00

00:07:47.760 You know, I was thinking about, you know, there's an American song from the halls of Montezuma

00:07:52.820 to the shores of Tripoli.

00:07:54.740 It's an American marching song.

00:07:57.720 It's a military song.

00:07:59.460 A little fight on country battles.

00:08:01.200 I think that might even be the song of the Marines.

00:08:04.000 I'd have to check.

00:08:05.020 And I was thinking, the shores of Tripoli.

00:08:07.300 Well, that's Libya. 0.78

00:08:09.300 What were the American Marines doing in Tripoli, Libya?

00:08:13.220 They were fighting pirates, weren't they?

00:08:15.780 Yeah.

00:08:16.000 And those pirates were avowedly jihadis.

00:08:18.380 I've got the communique of John Adams and Thomas Jefferson when they met with the emissary

00:08:24.800 of those pirates who were actually, they were agents of the government in Morocco at the

00:08:30.380 time, and they had an ambassador in London.

00:08:33.240 And John Adams and Thomas Jefferson actually met with this ambassador in London, and he told

00:08:38.620 them, and they reported back to the U.S. Congress that he told them, we are commanded in the 0.93

00:08:44.620 Quran to fight against infidels and to capture them, kill them, enslave them, convert them. 1.00

00:08:50.740 And this is what we're doing. 0.97

00:08:52.300 And so this was the first jihad that the United States fought against.

00:08:56.640 It wasn't 9-11.

00:08:57.800 It was the wars against the so-called Barbary pirates in the late 18th century and the very

00:09:03.460 beginning of the 19th century.

00:09:04.740 That's incredible.

00:09:06.120 I mean, it really goes back in history when Churchill, I mean, Churchill fought, I mean,

00:09:13.320 he fought in five different wars.

00:09:14.700 He fought the Battle of Khartoum, I think.

00:09:17.540 I'm not sure if he was in that battle, but he fought in the Sudan.

00:09:20.080 Was that a jihadist war against the West as well?

00:09:22.880 Yeah, a little bit before Churchill.

00:09:25.520 There was in Khartoum a figure who was known as the Mahdi, which is the savior figure in

00:09:31.520 Islam.

00:09:32.280 He's going to come back at the end of the world and fighting the infidels. 1.00

00:09:36.740 And many, many people, another thing that I show in the book, they have proclaimed themselves

00:09:40.840 the Mahdi throughout history.

00:09:42.800 And one of the most successful was this fellow in the Sudan in the 1880s.

00:09:48.160 And the famous British general who was known as Chinese Gordon because of his earlier heroic

00:09:54.040 exploits in China was actually sent to the Sudan to fight against this man and was killed

00:09:59.020 there by him.

00:10:00.080 And the Mahdi revolt was gaining incredible number of adherents in North Africa and spreading 0.91

00:10:07.340 elsewhere with Muslims actually believing that he was the Mahdi because he had beaten the

00:10:11.980 mighty British empire and killed Chinese Gordon.

00:10:14.400 And then he died suddenly, and that took the wind out of the sails of the movement.

00:10:20.000 But there have been these kinds of apocalyptic revivalist movements.

00:10:24.260 ISIS is kind of akin to that throughout Islamic history. 0.80

00:10:27.680 There was one known as the Karmadians way back in the 11th century.

00:10:32.840 And they actually thought that the end of the world was imminent and that thus the aspects

00:10:38.860 of Islamic worship that we're familiar with were no longer applicable.

00:10:42.460 And they actually raided Mecca and stole the black stone from the Kaaba that Muslims venerate 0.99

00:10:48.220 and kiss when they make the pilgrimage to Mecca.

00:10:50.500 And they only brought it back years later when they were ordered to by the caliph and threw

00:10:56.620 it into the Kaaba, broke it into nine pieces.

00:11:00.660 It's still, of course, in pieces today.

00:11:03.060 And in any case, these kinds of revivalist messianic apocalyptic movements that have been extremely

00:11:11.120 violent are also a running theme throughout Islamic history.

00:11:14.880 And today, of course, we have Wahhabi Saudi Arabia that started with one of those, founded 0.87

00:11:19.280 by Mohammed ibn Abdul Wahhab in the 18th century.

00:11:22.340 And we have ISIS and Al-Qaeda and groups like that.

00:11:25.260 These are not a new thing in Islam.

00:11:28.100 They go throughout history.

00:11:29.380 You know, I read a fascinating book about Krakatoa, which was this dramatic volcano about 130-odd

00:11:38.960 years ago in Indonesia.

00:11:41.440 And it's just, it's an amazing book.

00:11:44.940 I quoted it.

00:11:45.820 I was talking about it for reasons of global warming and things like that.

00:11:50.560 It was such a huge eruption.

00:11:53.300 The soot it emanated, cooled the earth for years.

00:11:58.460 It was, scientists say it was the loudest sound ever heard by man.

00:12:04.320 That it was, the explosion broke the eardrums of sailors 40 miles away.

00:12:09.920 It was heard 5,000 miles away.

00:12:11.620 People thought it was a cannon.

00:12:12.920 The loudest sound ever heard by a human was the explosion of Krakatoa.

00:12:16.940 And it's so devastated Indonesia, killed tens of thousands of people, that it was taken

00:12:23.860 by the Muslim Indonesian population as a sign from God himself, from Allah, that they should

00:12:31.220 stop being subservient to the Dutch. 1.00

00:12:35.220 And that that sort of rekindled an Islamic extremist awakening.

00:12:40.100 I haven't read your book.

00:12:41.380 I've just read the news that it's coming.

00:12:43.200 It's not out yet.

00:12:43.780 Do you treat this issue in your book?

00:12:47.520 The Indonesia one? 0.99

00:12:49.340 Yeah.

00:12:49.500 Well, that's not speaking jihad.

00:12:51.180 So that falls outside the realm of the book because the way that it proceeded in Indonesia

00:12:58.660 was in a unique sense, not violent.

00:13:01.480 And what I'm dealing with in the book is violent jihad primarily.

00:13:06.820 The thing is that what you're saying about that, though, is something that does run through

00:13:12.120 the book that there is in the Islamic consciousness.

00:13:17.540 And here again, we have to say, well, not all Muslims think this.

00:13:20.220 Not all anybody thinks anything.

00:13:21.720 But there is a common idea that the signs of the natural world, that natural occurrences

00:13:27.620 like volcanic eruptions or earthquakes, these are signs of the displeasure of Allah.

00:13:33.000 And they call for a redoubling of one's Islamic commitment.

00:13:38.620 And they often lead, therefore, to jihad activity.

00:13:42.780 And if a group is successful, then it's considered to have the favor of Allah.

00:13:48.380 Like one of the reasons why ISIS was able to attract 30,000 jihadis for 30,000 Muslims 0.79

00:13:54.900 from around the world to join it was because they were successful in gaining a large expanse

00:14:01.440 of territory in Iraq and Syria.

00:14:03.220 And they held it for several years until Trump became president and rolled them back.

00:14:07.200 And so people thought Allah is favoring them.

00:14:09.380 And so they must be the real caliphate. 0.71

00:14:11.220 We should go join up.

00:14:12.180 I want to run one more thing by you.

00:14:15.240 I've heard that the phrase run amok refers to a jihadist activity.

00:14:21.860 Can you tell me what run amok means? 0.95

00:14:24.560 Yeah, actually, that means running wild, killing people.

00:14:28.680 But it's not really, as we think of it in the West, just somebody who's going nuts.

00:14:34.080 It's not at all that.

00:14:35.060 It's somebody who is overflowing with zeal for Allah and is determined to wage jihad. 0.99

00:14:41.380 Remember, Ezra, that the Quran promises paradise.

00:14:44.600 It's the only promise of paradise in the entire Quran. 0.86

00:14:47.200 The Quran promises paradise to those who kill and are killed for Allah. 1.00

00:14:51.900 That is chapter 9, verse 111.

00:14:54.200 And so there are people throughout Islamic history who have run amok in this way. 1.00

00:14:59.120 They go and kill as many people as they can, and they are intending to be killed themselves

00:15:05.220 so that they will attain this promise of paradise.

00:15:08.540 Well, where does that phrase come from?

00:15:10.480 Was there a particular Islamic uprising?

00:15:13.900 What's the etymology of that?

00:15:16.380 Where did that happen?

00:15:17.800 It's a South Asian phrase.

00:15:19.120 I believe it comes from an incident in the Philippines, and it has to do with one of the languages,

00:15:26.340 Tagalog, or one of the languages that is spoken there.

00:15:28.820 Of course, we know that in the southern Philippines, there's a longstanding jihad in Mindanao to

00:15:33.460 establish a separate Islamic state.

00:15:35.080 Just as really everywhere where there is a sizable Muslim population, there are attempts 1.00

00:15:39.760 to separate the Muslims from the infidel government and establish their own. 0.91

00:15:43.280 The U.S. military has had a presence in the Philippines for a long time.

00:15:47.240 Were they involved in fighting against this in the past?

00:15:49.480 Yeah, you know, in 1898, when the United States government waged war against Spain and detached

00:15:58.000 the Philippines from Spanish control, then they came up against this.

00:16:01.900 But of course, it was much more quiescent then than it is now, the jihad in the Philippines.

00:16:07.760 If you go back to the beginning of the 20th century, as a matter of fact, when I end the

00:16:13.080 chapter on the 19th century in the book and am leading into the beginning of the 20th century,

00:16:18.480 I say that it looks as if this problem is receding and that jihad is a thing of the past.

00:16:23.840 And even Muslim countries are looking to the West. 0.88

00:16:27.440 You're looking to Europe for models.

00:16:29.900 Of course, the most famous example of this, but not the only one, is Turkey, where the

00:16:33.680 Ottoman Empire fell and Kamal Ataturk established a government based on Western models with an

00:16:38.980 explicit rejection of Islamic government.

00:16:41.420 And then Reza Shah in Iran followed him and did the same thing.

00:16:45.380 And so you get the beginning of the 20th century, it looked as if the whole thing was over, a

00:16:49.320 thing of the past, a relic of history.

00:16:51.340 But because jihad is founded on Islamic texts and teachings, those texts and teachings haven't

00:16:57.060 been changed or reformed or rejected.

00:16:59.180 So it recurs.

00:17:00.300 And with the Saudis striking oil, suddenly it became a big thing again.

00:17:06.600 Your book, I have a blurb in front of me about the 700-year struggle to conquer Constantinople.

00:17:15.520 Constantinople isn't even called that anymore.

00:17:17.540 It's called Istanbul.

00:17:19.120 And the marvelous Hagia Sophia, which was the mighty church, was conquered, turned into a mosque. 1.00

00:17:25.820 Now I think it's a state museum.

00:17:27.900 You know, you learn about Constantinople and you learn that it was once the largest city

00:17:34.860 in the world, the richest city in the world, and obviously a Christian city, the seat of

00:17:41.960 Christendom in many ways.

00:17:43.880 And that's all dust now.

00:17:46.240 That's a rumor.

00:17:47.040 That's a closed chapter.

00:17:48.720 And I think of that often because I think that would be like our London or New York today.

00:17:55.780 The biggest city, the richest city.

00:17:58.280 That would be like Rome.

00:18:00.360 And it's just a rumor now.

00:18:03.940 I think there's a sense in the West that these are just sort of insurgents.

00:18:10.480 They don't have, they're not a serious force.

00:18:12.920 They're backwards. 0.87

00:18:14.860 You say it took 700 years to conquer Constantinople.

00:18:18.700 But once it was lost, you know, it's been lost for, it's never coming back.

00:18:24.420 Constantinople will never be a Christian city again. 1.00

00:18:27.120 Egypt will never be a Christian country again. 1.00

00:18:29.180 It once was.

00:18:30.360 These places once lost to jihad.

00:18:32.320 They don't come back, do they?

00:18:33.320 Spain is really the only one in areas of India.

00:18:38.580 Spain, of course, it took another 700 years of the Reconquista.

00:18:42.320 And I trace all this in the book, as well as the 700-year jihad against Constantinople.

00:18:46.820 Spain was entirely conquered and was a Muslim country, except for one small band of Christians

00:18:53.840 who were way up high on a mountaintop.

00:18:56.080 But it was that small band of Christians who the Muslims actually tried to conquer. 0.99

00:19:00.000 But it was difficult because they were way up on an inaccessible mountaintop.

00:19:04.200 They ultimately decided this is too much trouble. 0.88

00:19:07.040 And I quote one of the Muslim leaders saying, this band of savages on a rock will soon perish. 1.00

00:19:13.260 And that's it. 0.98

00:19:14.240 But it wasn't.

00:19:15.220 They fought.

00:19:15.940 They won it back.

00:19:17.040 It took the 11th century.

00:19:18.920 In Constantinople, it was just the opposite.

00:19:20.960 As I show in the book, the Muslims almost immediately began to besiege Constantinople in the 7th century 1.00

00:19:28.840 when the religion was still forming and kept at it.

00:19:33.020 And you mentioned Rome.

00:19:34.520 There is a prophecy attributed to Muhammad that first the new Rome will fall and then the old Rome.

00:19:39.960 New Rome being Constantinople fell in 1453.

00:19:43.540 There are many Muslims today who cite that prophecy and say, now it's the turn of the old Rome

00:19:48.060 and we're going to conquer it and conquer Europe.

00:19:50.220 Well, we've seen ISIS propaganda.

00:19:53.020 They have very sophisticated video propaganda.

00:19:55.760 They show Rome itself being attacked.

00:20:00.380 In fact, the slitting of the throats of those Coptic Christians in Egypt on the banks of the Mediterranean Sea,

00:20:09.260 I think part of that symbology was that their blood would flow to Italy.

00:20:14.340 And they had quite a dramatic history there.

00:20:17.140 This wasn't just some random killing.

00:20:19.780 This was a symbolic killing of Christians on the Mediterranean Sea, I think.

00:20:23.340 Yes, absolutely.

00:20:25.900 And the aspirations are very clear that that's exactly what they want to do, that they're going to go from Libya to Italy. 0.88

00:20:33.580 And of course, the other migrant routes, the refugees, the jihadis have infiltrated the refugee stream and are coming into Europe from Eastern Europe, from Turkey, that is, through to Bosnia, and then from there into Western Europe.

00:20:49.840 And these are, many of these people are jihadis.

00:20:53.960 All eight of the attackers who murdered 130 people in Paris in November 2015 were refugees who had just come into Europe the month before and were approved as refugees.

00:21:04.240 And they mean to conquer Rome as one of the crowning achievements of Islam, and conquer the rest of Europe as a result. 0.99

00:21:13.160 Now, you mentioned India, and I'm not as familiar with that.

00:21:17.000 I've started to learn a little bit more about Sikhism, and my understanding is shallow, so I don't want to talk too much about it since I don't know.

00:21:27.720 But it seems to me that India, as you mentioned in your book's blurb, was devastated by Islamic attacks, but you just mentioned they repelled some of them.

00:21:37.100 Can you tell us a little bit about that?

00:21:40.100 Yeah, absolutely.

00:21:40.920 This was, I think this is an extraordinary story and one of the most important aspects of the book, that it has an in-depth treatment of the jihad in India that people in the West don't know.

00:21:50.800 And it's amazing.

00:21:52.480 It was much more bloodthirsty than the jihads against Europe and the Middle East, because those people in Europe and the Middle East were Jews and Christians. 1.00

00:22:01.300 And that's the people of the book, and the Quran directs that the people of the book can be given this second-class status and allowed to maintain their religion. 0.99

00:22:09.560 Now, in India, the Hindus were not people of the book, and so for them it was convert to Islam or die. 0.95

00:22:15.740 And I have the Hajjaj ibn Yusuf, who was one of the first Islamic commanders to send an army into India.

00:22:25.120 He instructed the general that he sent to not be lenient, and he actually scolded him for granting protection and clemency to some people.

00:22:34.740 And he said, look, you have to be very harsh.

00:22:36.880 These people are infidels of the worst kind. 1.00

00:22:40.520 And ultimately, there was so much bloodshed and so much devastation. 0.69

00:22:45.380 But the Hindu population of India was so great that they had to be granted honorary people of the book status and allowed to live.

00:22:52.340 But even then, the Muslims were absolutely savage with the Hindu temples, which they destroyed utterly, as many as possible. 1.00

00:23:00.880 And you see, as I go through the history, that this Muslim leader, that Muslim leader, and the next Muslim leader,

00:23:06.320 and one of the main things that they made it a priority to do was destroy Hindu temples, to loot the place, to enslave the people there.

00:23:14.600 It was absolutely devastating, and it went on for century after century after century.

00:23:18.880 Hmm. And how about Sikhism? You mentioned Hindus. Tell me a little bit about the Sikhs.

00:23:24.500 Yeah, the Sikhs actually were created. They began as a reaction to Islamic jihad.

00:23:30.040 This was a group of Hindus. Of course, they have their own gurus and their own belief system, but it comes out of Hinduism.

00:23:36.020 And they carry a dagger, as you may know, and have been given permission by some groups to carry daggers into places where ordinarily people wouldn't carry knives,

00:23:46.960 because the Sikhs are generally not going to run amok and go around killing people.

00:23:52.180 They carry the dagger, as a matter of fact, because they were created as a defensive force to defend the Indian population against the Islamic jihadis.

00:24:01.940 So it's kind of ironic nowadays when you see Sikh leaders acting in concord with Muslim Brotherhood-linked groups in the United States and Canada.

00:24:12.240 I think, don't you know your history? Don't you know why Sikhism exists?

00:24:17.060 And it's because of Islamic jihad and in order to resist Islamic jihad. 0.88

00:24:21.920 Well, I know our friend Tommy Robinson in the UK always made common cause with Sikhs.

00:24:28.420 He has personal friends, Mohan Singh. I met Mohan Singh through Tommy.

00:24:33.120 He doesn't just carry a little kerpan dagger. He has a full-out sword.

00:24:38.040 And I've seen Tommy at other Sikh events, and they love him.

00:24:42.080 I tell the story, I was in a car with Tommy on the highway, and a family pulled up,

00:24:46.680 but they sort of recognized Tommy in our car, and they started taking pictures of Tommy and waving.

00:24:52.640 It was just a Sikh family that saw him as a hero.

00:24:55.180 That's a little bit of an aside, but I think some Sikhs are alive to the challenge.

00:25:01.720 But I think most people in the West, they want to hit the snooze button.

00:25:07.520 They want to ignore this.

00:25:08.560 Either because they don't have time to study and learn the facts, or they're told it's racist to do so,

00:25:16.500 or they're just nervous because we were told that we reached the end of history,

00:25:23.820 and that we'll just enjoy our entertainment and our Big Macs and our music videos,

00:25:30.100 and everything will be fine for the rest of time.

00:25:31.980 And we sort of want to forget about 9-11, and that was an aberration.

00:25:36.040 What do you say to the mass of people in the West, in Europe and in North America,

00:25:42.580 who say, that's not our problem.

00:25:46.540 The jihad is obscure.

00:25:48.420 It's foreign. 1.00

00:25:49.600 It's got nothing to do with us.

00:25:50.880 9-11 happened once, but that was an anomaly.

00:25:55.320 Stop making matters worse by obsessing over this.

00:25:58.480 What would you say to them?

00:26:00.220 I would say it's coming, whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

00:26:03.660 That that's actually one of the primary reasons, Ezra, why I wrote this book, and why I think it's so important.

00:26:09.860 It's the most important book that I've ever written, and I hope that people who can make a difference will read it,

00:26:16.680 because the thing is that it shows there was never a time of tolerance,

00:26:20.960 never really a time of peaceful coexistence between non-Muslims and Muslims as equals in any society. 0.97

00:26:27.640 There's always been this conflict everywhere that large numbers of Muslims have been in contact with large numbers of non-Muslims.

00:26:34.980 There's been conflict started by the Muslims everywhere in the world for 14 centuries.

00:26:39.800 So why do we think we're going to be exempt?

00:26:41.740 This is not to say that every Muslim is a jihadi, of course, but unfortunately, because we have not recognized this problem as a society,

00:26:50.620 either in Canada or the U.S. or in Western Europe, we don't have any means to distinguish between jihadis and peaceful Muslims,

00:26:58.040 and are not calling upon Muslim advocacy groups and mosques in the West to make sure that they make it clear

00:27:04.460 that if you adhere to the ideology of jihad, of al-Qaeda, of ISIS, then you're not welcome in those mosques, and so on.

00:27:11.140 We haven't taken, in other words, basic steps, but the jihadis are still working,

00:27:15.680 whether we want to just be content with our PlayStations and ignore it or not.

00:27:19.620 And so it's going to come upon us.

00:27:21.900 It's better to be prepared than to have it come upon us unawares.

00:27:25.780 Well, it's fascinating.

00:27:27.040 I look forward to the book.

00:27:28.380 It's called The History of Jihad, From Mohammed to ISIS. 0.93

00:27:33.000 It's out on August 7th, and we'll have a link under this video where people can order it on Amazon.

00:27:39.400 We've been talking to Robert Spencer, the author of the book, and the director of Jihad Watch.

00:27:44.240 Let me close by asking you a modern-day question.

00:27:47.820 You said that a lot of people are hitting the snooze button in the West.

00:27:50.520 We just want to, you know, amuse ourselves with our PlayStations.

00:27:54.660 I think there's a lot of truth to that.

00:27:56.180 But I see some people are waking up.

00:27:57.860 I see the governments of Austria and Hungary speaking clearly about this.

00:28:02.720 I see a new poll that suggests Sweden is finally perhaps waking up to it.

00:28:09.420 I think a part of the Brexit success was concern over this.

00:28:13.940 I think even a part of Donald Trump's campaign.

00:28:15.540 So, is there a reason to have some hope?

00:28:20.900 Or do you think that there are some parts of the West that are just simply too far gone?

00:28:26.460 Like Molenbeek in Belgium or Rotterdam.

00:28:30.640 Are there some cities that are the new Constantinoples you just won't be able to get them back? 1.00

00:28:36.580 Well, you know, I tend to think that Yogi Berra was right.

00:28:40.040 It ain't over till it's over.

00:28:41.040 And it's never too late.

00:28:44.100 I don't even think it's too late for Constantinople, to tell you the truth.

00:28:47.080 Although, of course, the global situation would have to change dramatically.

00:28:51.120 And I'm not calling for any violence or any uprising there.

00:28:53.820 Not at all.

00:28:54.780 But the history shows one thing, and that is nothing is forever.

00:28:59.160 Nothing is constant.

00:29:00.960 There are great reasons to be hopeful now that weren't on the scene even just three years ago.

00:29:06.900 But I think that large numbers of people are indeed waking up.

00:29:10.300 I hope this book will help wake up many more people and help them to take concrete steps to deal with this problem before it becomes a matter of actual bloodshed in the streets, which it could very well.

00:29:21.860 And if you think that I'm being alarmist or hysterical, pick up the book and see.

00:29:26.080 This is something that has happened throughout history in country after country after country.

00:29:29.940 And the theology, the ideology of jihad has not changed, has not reformed, has not—it isn't any different.

00:29:37.380 In other words, the people who hit the Twin Towers on 9-11 had the same beliefs as the people who conquered Spain in the 8th century.

00:29:44.080 And that's something that non-Muslims are going to have to deal with one day, one way or the other. 1.00

00:29:51.220 Well, it sounds very interesting.

00:29:52.680 I look forward to reading it, especially the different geographies.

00:29:55.360 And, I mean, you just made me think about everything from Tripoli to Philippines to Indonesia.

00:30:01.340 I look forward to this book very much.

00:30:03.180 It's great to have you with us today.

00:30:04.280 Thanks for spending so much time with us.

00:30:06.560 Always a pleasure, Ezra.

00:30:07.500 Thank you very much.

00:30:08.160 All right.

00:30:08.500 Well, you're so welcome.

00:30:09.880 All right.

00:30:10.420 Stay with us.

00:30:11.360 More ahead on The Rebel.

00:30:29.300 Isn't that interesting?

00:30:30.600 I tell you, sometimes I get nervous when I talk to authors about their books.

00:30:33.820 I think, yikes, this is going to be dry.

00:30:35.840 I am riveted by what Robert had to say.

00:30:38.500 I can hardly wait to read it.

00:30:39.540 And little anecdotes, little stories, like Baltimore.

00:30:43.280 Dad, I didn't even know there was another Baltimore, let alone that it was raided. 0.97

00:30:48.860 And Irish women carted off to be rape slaves of Muslim invaders centuries ago. 1.00

00:30:54.720 Crazy. 0.98

00:30:55.220 I think that's going to be a very interesting book. 0.84

00:30:57.360 Speaking of jihads and holy lands and Muslim invaders and things of that sort, I actually

00:31:03.660 pre-recorded this video.

00:31:04.740 I'm in Israel today with about 60-odd Rebel supporters.

00:31:09.080 We're doing a fact-finding sightseeing tour.

00:31:11.840 And it actually pays some of our bills here at The Rebel.

00:31:13.740 It's a bit of a moneymaker to pay our freight.

00:31:16.060 I hope you join us next time if you're not with us now.

00:31:19.940 But until then, here's a quick clip from the Holy Land.

00:31:23.020 I'm here on the Gazan border looking into Gaza.

00:31:33.940 And about a kilometre in the distance, there's smoke that you can see.

00:31:38.320 That's the result of the Palestinians and their kites. 1.00

00:31:42.680 They're launching them over into Israel in order to try and burn the crops and the fields 1.00

00:31:48.360 of the farmers and also cause damage.

00:31:50.680 So that's the smoke that you can see there.

00:31:53.120 In the foreground, there's a wall that you can make out, a cream wall that makes up the

00:31:57.440 border between the Strip and Israel.

00:32:01.740 And interestingly, that wall not only acts as a defence in itself, but it goes down beneath

00:32:07.640 the ground 40 metres.

00:32:09.740 So 40 metres below the ground to the point where it meets the water.

00:32:13.760 And the point of that is to stop Hamas and the Palestinians tunneling through into Israeli 0.98

00:32:19.380 territory.

00:32:20.060 So I guess if there's a message for Donald Trump here, it's build the wall.

00:32:24.700 And don't just build the wall.

00:32:26.620 Build that wall down 40 metres also.

00:32:29.500 Well, that's it for our show for today.

00:32:31.160 On behalf of all of us here at Rebel World Headquarters, good night and keep fighting for

00:32:35.200 freedom.

00:32:43.760 Thank you.

00:32:53.300 Thank you.

00:32:58.880 Bye.

00:32:59.320 Bye.

00:33:00.060 Bye.

00:33:01.080 Bye.

00:33:02.200 Bye.

00:33:03.160 Bye.

00:33:03.420 Bye.

00:33:03.900 Bye.

00:33:05.360 Bye.

00:33:06.460 Bye.

00:33:07.920 Bye.

00:33:09.040 Bye.

00:33:09.900 Bye.

00:33:10.560 Bye.

00:33:11.600 Bye.

Rebel News Podcast - June 30, 2018

SPECIAL： Robert Spencer on his new book, “The History of Jihad： From Muhammad to ISIS”

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