Rebel News Podcast - February 21, 2019


Trudeau proposes censorship of social media before the election — and Scheer says the plan doesn't go far enough!

Topics
Trudeau censorship proposal Trudeau censorship social media election social media censorship regulation of political behavior censorship proposals censorship proposals Cody Wilson-Raybould ambitions
Hosted by
Ezra Levant
Mentioned
Jody Wilson-Raybould Karina Gould Gerald Butts Stephen Harper Lauren Gunter Andrew Scheer Kean Donald Trump Solomon Friedman Caucus Hillary Clinton Stephanie Cusey Preston Manning David Lamenti Don Martin Ephraim Bruce Marine Le Pen Mark Zuckerberg Brian Mulroney and 27 more
Don't be fooled： Gerald Butts is “going to keep running the Liberal operation” Three Rebel reporters assaulted in three weeks： Help us fight back

Episode Stats


Length

45 minutes

Words per minute

175.23

Word count

8,003

Sentence count

662

Harmful content

Misogyny

20

sentences flagged

Toxicity

5

sentences flagged

Hate speech

9

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Justin Trudeau wants the government to hold the media to account, and the opposition says it s not going hard enough, fast enough. It s an outrage to civil liberties groups across the country, but no one has a peep about it. Is this censorship, or is it something else?

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 Well, hello, Rebels. You're listening to a free audio-only recording of my show.
00:00:05.120 It's called The Ezra Levant Show because I am Ezra Levant, and it is a show.
00:00:09.300 And today I talked to you about a bizarre proposal by Karina Gould,
00:00:12.680 one of Justin Trudeau's cabinet ministers, to have the government hold the media to account.
00:00:18.440 Funny, I thought it used to be the other way around.
00:00:20.340 The media would hold the government to account.
00:00:22.880 This was said in Parliamentary Committee,
00:00:25.680 and the conservative opposition said,
00:00:29.480 oh, you're not going hard enough, fast enough.
00:00:31.320 They didn't say this is a bad idea.
00:00:34.280 And I should tell you, I checked the Twitter and news feeds of every civil liberties group in the country.
00:00:40.760 Not one of them had a peep about it. It's an outrage.
00:00:42.860 Here, listen to the show. You'll hear my case.
00:00:46.320 If you like listening to these podcasts, you would love watching it.
00:00:49.020 Come on, you've got to watch these things. It's a video.
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00:01:39.380 All right, without further to do, here's the shoe.
00:01:42.560 Tonight, Trudeau proposes emergency censorship of social media before his re-election campaign this fall.
00:01:50.900 And Andrew Scheer's response is, Trudeau doesn't go far enough.
00:01:54.960 It's February 20th, and this is the Ezra LeVant Show.
00:01:58.020 Why should others go to jail when you're a biggest carbon consumer I know?
00:02:03.900 There's 8,500 customers here, and you won't give them an answer.
00:02:07.980 The only thing I have to say to the government, the wire publisher, is because it's my bloody right to do so.
00:02:13.820 Look at this CBC story.
00:02:21.000 I hardly need to point out that this is Trudeau's state broadcaster, but that's pretty relevant.
00:02:26.720 Minister tasked with safeguarding election calls on committee to look at regulating Facebook and Twitter.
00:02:35.660 Isn't that the opposite of safeguarding an election?
00:02:39.520 Isn't meddling in free speech, isn't censorship, isn't that actually interfering in an election? 0.68
00:02:49.580 I'll read some more.
00:02:50.580 Gould invites committee to study regulation or legislation in lead-up to federal election.
00:02:57.840 Oh, so we've had free elections in this country for centuries.
00:03:03.220 I mean, obviously Canada, as an independent country, is only 152 years old.
00:03:06.880 But we were British North America before that.
00:03:10.120 We had all sorts of elections, the local and the provincial level.
00:03:14.400 We did so with freedom way back in the day.
00:03:17.700 It was newspapers and leaflets and pamphlets.
00:03:21.560 And then the days of radio and TV and now the Internet.
00:03:24.960 I think the Internet really came into its own in the early 1990s.
00:03:28.180 So we've really had almost 30 years' experience with it.
00:03:35.360 Eight federal elections, I'd say, in the age of the Internet.
00:03:39.060 We've had three federal elections since Twitter was invented, since the iPhone was invented.
00:03:44.280 We've had four federal elections where YouTube was around.
00:03:47.800 We've had five federal elections with Facebook around.
00:03:51.800 I think we can handle it.
00:03:54.460 I think we can trust ourselves.
00:03:58.020 Trudeau certainly used all those technologies and more to spread his message.
00:04:02.280 But that's the thing.
00:04:03.040 Now that he's in, he wants to pull up the drawbridge.
00:04:06.460 He doesn't want anyone else, with other points of view, to have access to the newspapers and TV stations of the 21st century.
00:04:12.260 I mean, he'll grudgingly allow the Conservative Party and the NDP in on the action.
00:04:17.320 But that's a pretty narrow bandwidth of ideas, isn't it?
00:04:19.600 All the major parties in this country are afraid to talk about, I don't know, just for an example, open border immigration or about the Islamification of society.
00:04:28.700 Anything that actually challenges mainstream opinion, establishment opinion.
00:04:32.560 That's what Trudeau is afraid of.
00:04:34.120 And you know what?
00:04:35.800 So are the other parties.
00:04:38.160 Which explains their willingness to go along with this.
00:04:41.020 They want a monopoly on what you can even talk about.
00:04:43.960 Let me show you some more from the story.
00:04:44.980 Democratic Institutions Minister Karina Gould today called on a Commons Committee to look at the possibility of the Canadian government imposing new rules on social media sites, such as Facebook and Twitter, in the lead-up to the next federal election.
00:05:02.360 Now, as you know, Twitter and Facebook and YouTube and Google and the rest of them, they already tilt to the left.
00:05:07.560 They already censor sites based on ideology.
00:05:10.140 In the weeks before the French elections, just for an example, Facebook shut down 30,000 pages, all of which supported one of the candidates, Marine Le Pen.
00:05:20.520 Facebook claims they're fake.
00:05:22.140 But what does that mean?
00:05:23.160 Who made the decision?
00:05:24.540 Who got to verify it?
00:05:25.560 Who got to check?
00:05:26.320 Do you trust Mark Zuckerberg?
00:05:29.720 I mean, do you trust any corporation, to tell you the truth, but especially a corporation run by this guy?
00:05:36.040 Do you feel like it's a backlash, or do you feel like you're violating people's privacy?
00:05:41.240 Do you feel like you're adequately portrayed as a...
00:05:44.980 Because they want to wonder about the person who actually created this thing.
00:05:48.700 Yeah, I mean, you know, a lot of stuff happened along the way.
00:05:53.240 I think, you know, there were real learning points and turning points along the way in terms of building things.
00:06:03.260 If I knew what I knew now, then, then I hope I wouldn't have made those mistakes.
00:06:11.000 But I can't go back and change the past.
00:06:13.740 I can only do what we think is the right thing going forward.
00:06:16.180 So, before we move off this privacy thing, and I thought that was a fascinating answer.
00:06:22.060 Okay, you want to take off the hoodie?
00:06:23.780 No, I never take off the hoodie.
00:06:24.860 I know you don't.
00:06:25.560 What's with that?
00:06:26.500 There's a group of women in the audience that wish you would. 0.66
00:06:28.960 No, no.
00:06:30.560 Girls? 0.96
00:06:31.540 Whoa.
00:06:31.820 Whoa.
00:06:33.260 All right.
00:06:34.220 Sorry.
00:06:35.220 That's okay. 0.99
00:06:36.620 What a sweaty little liar, eh? 0.97
00:06:40.300 Boy, that was a great video. 0.99
00:06:42.160 He's lied and lied and lied since then.
00:06:44.360 Do you trust him?
00:06:46.460 We know that Twitter also deletes accounts of anyone they don't like politically, including some of our former staff here.
00:06:52.640 From Tommy Robinson to Laura Loomer.
00:06:54.580 You can disagree with those people.
00:06:56.120 Sometimes I do.
00:06:57.440 But Twitter doesn't allow disagreement.
00:06:59.440 They believe in censorship, not disagreeing.
00:07:03.720 Our YouTube page here at The Rebel is being demonetized, along with many other conservative YouTube sites.
00:07:08.900 In December of 2016, we were on track to make a million dollars a year from our YouTube videos.
00:07:16.200 It would be enough to build our whole company.
00:07:18.060 But the next month, January 2017, YouTube just removed conservative sites from any ad buys.
00:07:26.300 They just wouldn't allow mainstream ads to be put on our sites unless we were specifically requested.
00:07:31.840 We weren't in the general ad pool.
00:07:33.920 And even then, if a company requested to have an ad on our site, they put in their own machine censorship for any words like feminist or Trudeau.
00:07:43.380 But you know this already.
00:07:44.820 Google, YouTube, they're censors.
00:07:46.100 So, yeah, social media is already hard left wing.
00:07:49.340 Watch this video from Google's headquarters.
00:07:52.780 They also own YouTube, by the way.
00:07:54.860 They had a staff meeting a few days after Trump won.
00:07:59.060 I think it was on the Friday after Trump won.
00:08:00.740 Listen to these senior Google executives, especially the one saying that she was crying that they lost.
00:08:08.760 There was no divider between her, Google, and Hillary Clinton. 0.96
00:08:12.500 Remember this?
00:08:13.700 As we started to see the direction of the voting, I reached out to someone close to me who was at the Javits Center where the big celebration was supposed to occur in New York City.
00:08:25.580 Somebody had been working on the campaign.
00:08:27.040 And I just sent them a note and said, you know, are you okay?
00:08:31.200 It looks like it's going the wrong way.
00:08:34.220 And I got back a very sad short text that read, people are leaving.
00:08:41.080 Staff is crying.
00:08:42.420 We're going to lose.
00:08:43.140 That was the first moment I really felt like we were going to lose.
00:08:52.840 And it was this massive, like, kick in the gut that we were going to lose.
00:08:56.700 And it was really painful.
00:08:59.580 She was crying.
00:09:00.660 And by the way, her friend in the Hillary campaign was her boss, the executive vice president, Eric Schmidt.
00:09:08.420 Yeah, it's so left-wing, social media already.
00:09:11.840 It's no surprise.
00:09:13.360 Coming from Silicon Valley, that's a suburb of San Francisco, it's the most left-wing city in North America.
00:09:18.400 So back to the story today.
00:09:19.540 Testifying before the Procedure and House Affairs Committee Tuesday, Gould suggested the committee take a closer look at the role of social media in elections.
00:09:29.020 I would encourage this committee to do a study of the role of social media in democracy.
00:09:33.780 If that's something you think is interesting, she said, to hold the social media companies to account.
00:09:40.440 Whoa, okay, stop right there.
00:09:41.860 You know, one of the things we always say about the media, about journalism, about the free press, about freedom of speech, we say that holds government to account.
00:09:49.400 Reporters hold governments to account.
00:09:51.160 Free press, free media holds governments to account.
00:09:53.420 Holds all power to account.
00:09:54.760 And I think it's largely true.
00:09:56.320 I mean, sure, the official opposition in government holds the government to account.
00:10:01.200 But official opposition doesn't talk about everything.
00:10:03.400 They only talk about the things that suit them and their own agenda.
00:10:06.660 They don't have all the resources.
00:10:08.040 They don't have all the knowledge.
00:10:09.040 They don't have all the news tips.
00:10:11.160 There are journalists everywhere on the whole spectrum from left to right with different points of view.
00:10:14.940 We all have the right, as citizen journalists, really, to question our government for ourselves.
00:10:19.620 I love it.
00:10:20.560 But look how she inverted it. 1.00
00:10:23.020 The government now proposes to hold media companies to account.
00:10:28.540 It's not media holding Trudeau to account.
00:10:31.380 Trudeau will hold the media to account.
00:10:34.480 The government would hold the media to account.
00:10:38.100 That's not how it works in a free country.
00:10:42.200 Imagine if Stephen Harper had said that.
00:10:43.780 Imagine if Donald Trump had said that.
00:10:46.120 But that is precisely what Trudeau's cabinet minister just said about the media and elections.
00:10:50.720 And you can hear a pin drop.
00:10:52.960 No protests.
00:10:53.600 No front page stories.
00:10:54.640 No national news.
00:10:55.260 Especially not from the CBC.
00:10:56.780 They sort of like this story.
00:10:58.100 Because they're positively owned by Justin Trudeau and the federal government.
00:11:01.820 They're run as a Trudeau message repeater right now.
00:11:04.920 They're already fully tamed.
00:11:06.240 And why would they object to their private sector competitors just being regulated just like they are?
00:11:11.740 I'll read some more.
00:11:13.180 I would welcome suggestions and feedback in terms of how to appropriately regulate or legislate that behavior.
00:11:20.940 Because I think one of the biggest challenges, and you can see this around the world, is the path forward is not as clear.
00:11:25.540 What does she mean by regulate behavior?
00:11:31.200 What behavior?
00:11:33.340 Why does a Trudeau liberal think she can regulate someone's behavior in a campaign? 1.00
00:11:37.440 Especially political behavior, media behavior, the right to ask questions, the right to challenge and criticize and doubt, the right to say things.
00:11:43.260 Whatever.
00:11:43.600 I mean, if things go too far, if there's a threat or a crime, well, we have a law that can handle that.
00:11:48.400 The criminal code or defamation law in civil courts.
00:11:51.320 Whatever.
00:11:51.520 It's no different than in the age of newspapers and leaflets or the age of radio or TV.
00:11:57.360 Why would it be acceptable to demand, say, that talk radio be regulated to crack down on inappropriate behavior during elections?
00:12:05.460 Isn't that inappropriate behavior as long as it's not a crime?
00:12:10.240 Isn't that just a fancy way of saying people who are sick of the government and want to throw out the bums? 0.99
00:12:14.080 I'm sure a lot of things were said about the Progressive Conservative Party in 1993 to choose a pre-internet date.
00:12:21.700 That's just when the internet was really getting popular for the first time.
00:12:26.580 Back in 1993, really the internet was not a factor in the campaign.
00:12:30.440 But that mighty party was slaughtered down to just two seats.
00:12:38.080 I'm sure a lot of things were said and done on talk radio that were regarded as inappropriate behavior by Kim Campbell and Brian Mulrooney, too, back then.
00:12:46.280 Good, good.
00:12:47.440 Because they're not the boss.
00:12:48.560 The people are the boss.
00:12:50.080 And the people are allowed to say and do things that the ruling class has deemed inappropriate.
00:12:54.580 Let me read some more.
00:12:55.480 However, we want to ensure that we're providing that important public space that social media provides for people to express themselves,
00:13:03.040 but also mitigating some of the negative impacts that can also arise through social media, she said.
00:13:08.680 And so I think that would be something very interesting for this community to work on if you choose to do that.
00:13:16.740 It's a liberal word salad.
00:13:18.860 Mitigating some of the negative impacts that can also arise.
00:13:22.060 Why won't she say what she means?
00:13:25.480 What's a negative impact?
00:13:28.260 Someone criticizing the precious one?
00:13:30.480 Someone disagreeing with Trudeau?
00:13:32.040 Is that what she means by negative impact?
00:13:34.940 If someone were to vote Trudeau out of power or knocked him down on minority government,
00:13:38.820 that would certainly have a negative impact for him and for Karina Gould.
00:13:43.440 What does she mean by that?
00:13:45.040 Are only positive ideas allowed?
00:13:47.440 Who gets to decide what's positive and what's negative?
00:13:50.300 I guess my favorite line was, oh, if you guys choose to do that, as if Trudeau doesn't control the agenda of these parliamentary committees on which he has a majority.
00:13:58.180 I love this part next.
00:13:59.000 Remember what we're reading here.
00:14:00.660 This is the CBC government broadcaster.
00:14:03.300 We're reading the CBC broadcaster, reporting a speech by a government minister about a government committee, about a government proposal to censor the media.
00:14:13.940 Imagine writing about this with any suspense of how this is going to end.
00:14:18.480 Let me quote some more.
00:14:20.720 If the committee heeds Gould's call, I wonder if they will, and looks at ways to rein in social media in the lead up to the next election, it'll have to move quickly.
00:14:30.500 There are only 12 sitting weeks remaining in Parliament's calendar before it rises for the summer, and it may not resume sitting before the next election.
00:14:36.860 Gee, I wonder what they're going to do.
00:14:38.880 The suspense is killing me.
00:14:40.420 And the rush, don't think it'll be accidental.
00:14:44.700 It means, well, I'm sorry, we can't have meaningful consultations.
00:14:48.580 We really wanted to, but we've just got to ram this through, because we're in a rush.
00:14:52.900 We didn't know this election was coming, this problem of negative impact.
00:14:56.860 So you can't blame us for having to shorten the debate a little bit here.
00:15:00.280 And anyways, look, the impacts are negative, people.
00:15:02.540 Why don't you understand that Trudeau needs to hold the media to account, especially since they've been so negative in their impacts lately.
00:15:10.420 From that trip to India, to this whole SNC-Lavalin thing, the media is so negative these days.
00:15:15.960 And social media is the worst, because you know how citizens can be.
00:15:19.540 They can be the worst.
00:15:21.280 So we liberals need to hold you to account.
00:15:23.420 No more negative impacts, okay?
00:15:26.480 All right, so what did Andrew Scheer's Conservatives say in reply?
00:15:29.200 Let me read to you the totality of it, as reported in the CBC.
00:15:34.740 Gould's comments came after Conservative MP Stephanie Cousy accused her of not doing enough to protect the next election.
00:15:41.800 She said she was concerned that Gould has simply asked social media companies to do more to keep the next Canadian election safe from foreign interference and to apply lessons learned in other countries.
00:15:51.960 This is very disturbing to me that you are asking corporations, out of their own goodwill, to try to protect Canadians and our electoral processes again, rather than taking responsibility yourself, both as the minister and the government, said Cousy.
00:16:05.360 Cousy described the elections law, C-76, as weak, saying it relies on lame registries and wrist slaps to guard against foreign interference.
00:16:14.220 Okay, and she's talking about Bill C-76, and we'll have to go through that bill properly one day soon.
00:16:19.880 It's the Liberal Changes to the Elections Act.
00:16:21.760 I have my concerns about it, like the Democrats in the U.S., Canada's liberals hate, for example, voter ID requirements at the polls.
00:16:28.340 They want people to be able to vote without any proof of citizenship or any proof of ID at all, actually.
00:16:33.080 Lots of problems like that.
00:16:35.120 And the liberals actually love third-party campaign groups, because that's what helped elect Trudeau in the first place.
00:16:40.540 It's over 100 different groups, many of them unions.
00:16:43.700 Some of these groups registering their offices, telling the Elections of Canada that, yeah, we're headquartered in the U.S., but we're going to campaign against Stephen Harper in Elections Canada, saying no problem.
00:16:54.020 So there's a lot to talk about there, but mainly that's about elections campaigning.
00:16:58.380 That's about political parties and political ads and political finance and stuff like that.
00:17:02.300 It's not so much regulating campaign content as regulating campaign disclosure in finances.
00:17:08.480 Now, there's lots to talk about there.
00:17:10.540 But what Karina Gould was talking about isn't campaign groups or third parties or even foreign meddling.
00:17:16.000 She's talking about you.
00:17:19.800 You on Facebook, you on Twitter, you on social media.
00:17:22.980 She's not even talking about political campaigns as such.
00:17:25.840 She just wants to regulate what she says is negative on the Internet, what she calls fake, what she calls inaccurate. 0.89
00:17:33.480 But you can't trust her to do that.
00:17:35.300 You couldn't trust any partisan to do that.
00:17:37.060 You can't trust anyone other than yourself to do that.
00:17:39.860 Because, for example, Trudeau called this whole Jody Wilson-Raybould, Attorney General scandal, SNC-Lavalin thing.
00:17:46.060 Trudeau called that a non-story.
00:17:47.380 His ministers called it fake news.
00:17:48.820 Bill Morneau said that.
00:17:49.920 Fake is a matter of opinion, though.
00:17:51.820 Fake is what each politician calls the other politician.
00:17:54.120 And what each ideology calls the other ideology.
00:17:56.440 Fake is in the eye of the beholder.
00:17:58.320 That's why we have more than one political party.
00:17:59.960 That's why we have more than one newspaper.
00:18:01.600 And that's why you get to choose which one you vote for, and you get to choose which one you buy if you buy a newspaper.
00:18:06.800 Because we all have different points of view, and we're all allowed to.
00:18:09.860 We want at least some of the media to have a different point of view than the government, to hold them to account, to have negative impacts.
00:18:15.860 But you heard the minister.
00:18:16.940 They want the government to hold the media to account.
00:18:19.660 Trudeau said as much in a threat to Facebook over a year ago.
00:18:23.300 Remember this huge story in the Toronto Star?
00:18:25.500 Not a single other media outlet covered it.
00:18:29.320 It was a huge story.
00:18:30.200 The Star ran it and then forgot about it.
00:18:32.440 Trudeau said Facebook had better start censoring things on Facebook that Trudeau didn't like, or he would force them to do that.
00:18:39.560 And I guess this is the forcing part now.
00:18:42.440 But Andrew Schultz conservatives didn't seem to have anything to say about that.
00:18:47.660 They want more, harder, stronger rules against foreign medallers. 0.73
00:18:50.360 Okay, let's talk about keeping foreigners out, but I'm not really worried about the free speech rights of foreign nationals in our elections.
00:18:57.200 I don't think that's a big deal.
00:18:58.480 I'm worried about our free speech rights here in Canada.
00:19:01.800 That's exactly what Karina Gould is talking about.
00:19:04.380 But Stephanie Cousy, the conservative critic, and Andrew Scheer certainly didn't make that point, at least not that I saw.
00:19:10.100 I'm going to look further.
00:19:12.140 Oh, by the way, neither did anyone else that I can see.
00:19:14.080 Here's the news feed from the website of Canadian Journalists for Free Expression.
00:19:20.360 Not a word about free expression.
00:19:23.020 Here's the news feed of the Canadian Association of Journalists.
00:19:27.480 Not a word about journalism under this proposal, but quite a bit about how they can get their hands on that $595 million in Justin Trudeau's media bailout.
00:19:37.820 And here's the news feed from the Canadian Civil Liberties Association.
00:19:42.560 Not a peep about this, but lots about rights of accused terrorists and criminals.
00:19:49.080 Not a word about government censorship.
00:19:50.660 Not a word about the government holding the media to account.
00:19:53.520 Say, do you think they'd all be this silent if it were Stephen Harper demanding this censorship?
00:19:59.440 By the way, the head of policy at Facebook is this guy, Kevin Chan, former staff member at the Liberal Party's leader's office.
00:20:06.260 Imagine if Stephen Harper were Prime Minister and he was telling a former Conservative Party staffer who just happens to be a senior executive at Facebook that he wants to shut down negative stories.
00:20:17.220 Wink, wink.
00:20:17.820 Yeah, there'd be a fuss, but it's not a peep now.
00:20:21.140 Not from the Liberals, of course.
00:20:22.520 It's not from those leftist activist groups, of course, but not even, from what I can see, not even from Andrew Scheer's concerns.
00:20:30.180 Why is that?
00:20:31.060 It's because they, too, don't like voices on social media talking about things that maybe they don't like to talk about.
00:20:40.100 They hate talking about some issues.
00:20:42.560 They're just scared.
00:20:43.140 They're scared to talk about Islam, scared to talk about immigration, because these things are embarrassing to them, because the CBC says don't talk about it, so they don't want to talk about it.
00:20:54.880 They don't like to talk about it.
00:20:56.480 Is that why Andrew Scheer is fine with all this?
00:20:58.100 Because, frankly, he'd be fine if all the conversations in the country were kept to a little cartel of the few official parties, and that's it.
00:21:06.620 Just the polite people, you know, all those lobbyists' panels on the CBC where they're all think-alikes.
00:21:13.540 That's safe conversation.
00:21:16.500 I don't know, but I do know one thing.
00:21:18.720 They will come for us here at the Rebel as sure as night follows day.
00:21:23.680 Stay with us for more.
00:21:36.620 Hey, Judy, why did you want to speak to Cabinet yesterday?
00:21:40.740 No solicitor or client privilege there.
00:21:42.300 Why did you want to speak to Cabinet?
00:21:43.620 I wanted to make myself available if Cabinet wanted to talk to me.
00:21:49.180 And if you want to talk to me, what is it?
00:21:50.460 Are you going to speak to Caucus today?
00:21:52.000 Are you going to explain what's going on with the Caucus today?
00:21:56.100 I'm going to attend Caucus, as I always do, and we'll see how the conversation's going.
00:22:00.500 Ms. Wilson-Rain, can you explain why you quit Cabinet?
00:22:03.620 Can you explain why you quit Cabinet?
00:22:05.500 No.
00:22:05.700 How come?
00:22:07.860 As I've said, and I know this is frustrating for many people,
00:22:12.440 I'm committed to ensuring that I know what I can and cannot say
00:22:19.700 as I'm giving or getting legal advice, as I've told you, around privilege.
00:22:25.840 That is Jody Wilson-Raybould, the former Justice Minister
00:22:29.640 who was demoted to Veterans Affairs Minister
00:22:31.720 and then who quit the day after Justin Trudeau boasted,
00:22:35.260 well, the fact that she's in my Cabinet tells you all you need to know about her support for me.
00:22:40.200 Well, she showed him who was boss.
00:22:42.240 The whole thing started to come undone a couple of weeks ago when the Globe and Mail had a bombshell front page story
00:22:48.640 alleging that Wilson-Raybould came under tremendous pressure to let a Quebec company called SNC-Lavalin off the hook in a criminal prosecution.
00:22:59.520 They, of course, had been found to pay $48 million worth of bribes to get contracts in Libya.
00:23:06.220 That's against the law.
00:23:07.440 So they lobbied the Prime Minister's office and everyone else they could find more than 50 times to try and get the charges dropped.
00:23:16.280 Today we learn in the Globe and Mail that after Jody Wilson-Raybould and the Justice Department decided, in fact,
00:23:23.300 to continue to prosecute after they made the decision,
00:23:26.100 even after that, Justin Trudeau summoned Jody Wilson-Raybould to discuss the matter.
00:23:31.960 He claims, however, he put no pressure on her.
00:23:35.100 Joining us now to talk about these ongoing shenanigans is our friend Lauren Gunter,
00:23:39.180 senior columnist for the Edmonton Sun.
00:23:41.340 Lauren, great to see you again.
00:23:43.300 Good to see you.
00:23:44.000 I have to tell you, I'm a little bit confused by a few things.
00:23:48.500 Jody Wilson-Raybould says she can't say a word because she doesn't know what her legal rights are.
00:23:53.040 But she's been in this position for days and days.
00:23:56.800 She has a top advisor, namely a former Supreme Court Justice, Thomas Cromwell, who's an able lawyer.
00:24:03.140 It doesn't take that long to get legal advice on what she can and can't say.
00:24:07.160 And I'm starting to think she's playing a bit of games because, of course, Gerald Butts,
00:24:12.200 the principal secretary to Trudeau, resigned on Monday, and she shows up at cabinet yesterday.
00:24:19.100 I think there's a little bit of games playing here.
00:24:20.800 What do you think?
00:24:21.640 Oh, yeah, I think that's all that's being done right now.
00:24:25.220 There's no question in my mind.
00:24:27.740 I mean, I worked on the Hill for two years.
00:24:29.360 I worked as an executive assistant to a cabinet minister.
00:24:31.980 I'd never heard this argument that the solicitor general, the attorney general, has a solicitor
00:24:40.120 client relationship with cabinet.
00:24:43.720 I mean, cabinet ministers are bound by cabinet confidentiality.
00:24:47.220 Yes, it's limited in what they can and cannot say.
00:24:51.500 And they often speak about what went on in cabinet in general terms.
00:24:55.860 They don't say, well, we discussed this and we said that and so-and-so said this.
00:24:59.500 That's supposed to be all confidential so that ministers will speak freely.
00:25:02.860 And I understand that.
00:25:03.760 I respect that.
00:25:06.060 But this idea that somehow when the prime minister pressures you to, if the allegations
00:25:13.620 are true, if the prime minister pressured her after the director of prosecutions for the
00:25:19.540 federal government had decided not to give Lavalin a deferred prosecution agreement and go
00:25:25.820 ahead with criminal prosecutions, if the prime minister had pressured her to do, to lean
00:25:32.160 on the director of federal prosecutions, then that is a political move.
00:25:37.840 It is not covered by lawyer client or solicitor client confidentiality in my understanding.
00:25:44.820 And there are a number of legal experts who've said this.
00:25:47.760 And even if it was, you know, she's had this lawyer, I don't know the exact, I don't know
00:25:53.740 how many days we're into this story now, but she says, well, I'm still trying to figure
00:25:57.580 it out.
00:25:58.100 No, it doesn't take that long to research one narrow area of law and get an opinion.
00:26:03.300 I was very sympathetic to her because I believe that the Quebec Liberal Party is the most corrupt
00:26:11.060 in Canadian history.
00:26:12.840 Virtually every single mayor in Quebec has been arrested and charged with something in the
00:26:17.060 last 10 years.
00:26:18.080 That's the province of ad scam.
00:26:19.580 It's the province of, well, it's the province of the Trudeaus.
00:26:22.420 So it was absolutely believable to me that these Quebec old boys thought they could just 0.98
00:26:27.540 pressure this cabinet minister from Vancouver to go along with it.
00:26:31.940 But she actually stood on a point in principle.
00:26:33.500 I believe that narrative.
00:26:35.160 Now, Gerald Butts is gone on Monday and she's back in caucus on Tuesday.
00:26:39.700 It looks like there's some horse trading here.
00:26:42.100 And I think, yeah, I mean, I think Butts's head was handed to her so that she'll play along.
00:26:47.060 She was, I think, prepared to blab and to say that the PM leaned on her after the chief
00:26:56.600 of prosecutions, a bureaucrat in the Justice Department, had chosen not to give Lavalin
00:27:04.060 a plea deal and that she knows it's political.
00:27:09.000 I think she's biding her time.
00:27:11.840 She's waiting for the most effective time in order to do this. 0.94
00:27:15.180 But I think also at the same time, too, she is being a semi-loyal liberal.
00:27:21.980 She wants the liberals to win again.
00:27:24.720 She wants to run again in October as a liberal.
00:27:27.360 And so she's playing a sort of minefield game here.
00:27:33.060 She's being careful where she steps because she doesn't want to blow up the party's chances.
00:27:37.160 But I think, I mean, the only explanation that makes sense to me, this is pure speculation
00:27:41.900 on my part, but the only explanation that makes sense to me is why Gerald Butts would
00:27:46.340 leave his dream job when there's no evidence suggesting he was involved directly, is that
00:27:54.220 she threatened to divulge what had been said and what the pressure that had been put on
00:27:59.720 her unless something was done and Butts's head was the something.
00:28:04.000 Yeah. You know, I want to show you a clip that I saw on CBC the other day.
00:28:08.700 It's an old clip decades, a generation ago, when Jody Wilson-Raybould's dad was an Aboriginal
00:28:18.120 activist and he was face-to-face with Pierre Trudeau.
00:28:24.180 Right. He butted heads with Pierre Trudeau several times.
00:28:26.500 Yeah. Let me show you this quick exchange. It's not substantive.
00:28:30.980 He talks about his daughters wanting to be lawyers and how one of them wants to be prime
00:28:37.640 minister. Here, take a quick look at that.
00:28:41.680 I have two children in Vancouver Island, both of whom, for some misguided reason, say they
00:28:51.820 want to be a lawyer, both of whom want to be the prime minister, both of whom, Mr. Prime
00:29:04.220 Minister, are women. 0.99
00:29:06.360 You know what, Lauren?
00:29:09.520 Jody Wilson-Raybould is not some naive gal.
00:29:13.620 I mean, she might be a bit of an idealist. She's certainly a leftist. She certainly has
00:29:19.300 a point of view on the law that is to the left of mine. She's an Aboriginal rights radical
00:29:24.040 in some ways, and I think she'd agree with that. Like her dad.
00:29:27.040 She brought in the new drunk driving laws, which completely obliterate all sorts of century-old
00:29:32.960 protections against self-incrimination. So she is a radical. There's no question.
00:29:37.720 Yeah. And so maybe she had more principle in her than to go along with these old boys,
00:29:43.740 these old McGill boys, who said, oh, come on, you're just a gender and race quota token.
00:29:50.060 Go along with the big boys. And she said, yeah, no, on this one, I'm going to stand firm.
00:29:53.940 I think that there was a poetic moment when the first Aboriginal justice minister in Canadian
00:29:59.820 history looked at the trust fund boys from Montreal and said, not on my watch. I think there
00:30:05.000 was a moment like that. But I think she's cannier than just an idealistic die on this hill kind of
00:30:11.320 gal. I think she's got a bit of her dad in her. And I think she, look, she just knocked out Gerald 0.99
00:30:16.660 Butts. No one else in the party had the ability to do that. By the way, I don't think Gerald Butts
00:30:21.340 is gone. I read in the Globe and Mail that he was going to take a leave of absence anyways to run
00:30:26.620 the campaign. So he's just stepping down a month or two early. I think there's a lot of BS here.
00:30:31.560 Yeah. I think there is too. And maybe there's collusion between Trudeau and Wilson-Raybould
00:30:38.780 to handle all this, although I don't think that's true. I think where you are angling
00:30:43.340 is a possibility that she has always wanted to be the leader of the Liberal Party, always wanted to
00:30:51.100 be prime minister. And she sees a way now, if not to push Trudeau out at this point, at least to
00:30:58.200 position herself as a darling of the left of center wing of the Liberal Party when Trudeau
00:31:07.560 eventually does decide to go. And, you know, it's been funny. The fun thing for me in this,
00:31:13.880 though, is watching both Trudeau and Wilson-Raybould try to position themselves as the victims here.
00:31:19.660 I mean, Trudeau said, well, you know, of course, if she had only said to me that she felt pressure,
00:31:27.580 I certainly would have. My feminist side would have rushed out to her defense. And, oh, my goodness, 1.00
00:31:34.180 I just feel she's the one who didn't do her duty, though. I feel so badly that I wasn't told. Like,
00:31:40.120 give me a break.
00:31:41.480 I don't think anyone believed that. It was a reminder of how he answered, you know,
00:31:45.600 in the year 2000, when he was a younger man, but still an adult. He went to a beer party in
00:31:51.900 Creston, British Columbia, and he sexually groped, according to the New York Times, a young
00:31:57.040 reporter named Rose Knight. And then he later said, oh, I didn't know you were an important reporter
00:32:02.160 with the National Post. He actually apologized, sort of, by saying, oh, I didn't know you were an
00:32:07.180 important person. If I had known you were just a little town reporter, I thought you were just a
00:32:13.960 little town reporter. It would have been OK, but I didn't know you were reporting.
00:32:17.740 So, but, you know, when he was asked about that last year, he said, oh, well,
00:32:21.020 she might have experienced it differently, and I respect her right to experience it. It felt like
00:32:25.460 that. It felt like, oh, well, Jody Wilson-Raybould experienced this pressure. Well, she has that right
00:32:31.020 as a woman to feel that way. But come on, cuckoo. She's, you know, she's a little hysterical. 1.00
00:32:36.120 Like, it came across as that same male feminist, passive-aggressive. I totally respect her right 0.99
00:32:42.740 to think I pressured her. But come on, guys, we all know. I mean, come on, you're going to believe
00:32:47.420 her? That's how it came across. You know, before this happened, before this happened, it was well
00:32:51.580 known on Parliament Hill that Wilson-Raybould was difficult to work with. She'd gone through several
00:32:56.780 chiefs of staff or executive assistants. She was known as a very prickly person. And you remember,
00:33:05.020 too, as soon as this became an issue, there were several people from the senior liberal ranks who
00:33:10.980 were whispering to reporters, oh, you know, Jody's very hard to deal with. She's got a big ego. You 1.00
00:33:16.860 have to be careful. And, you know, that's the same sort of thing, right? I mean, it's just into this
00:33:22.600 passive-aggressive stuff. And they're feminists until it suits their purposes. And then they're 1.00
00:33:27.880 smearing a woman because she's a feminist. This has been fun to watch. Because we still don't know 0.83
00:33:36.240 what's going on. We still have weeks of this to trickle. It may not be every day as it is now.
00:33:41.640 But over the next few months, new things are going to arise. And it's fun to watch because here are
00:33:47.940 these smug, sanctimonious liberals who've been telling all the rest of us that they and they
00:33:53.640 alone know what's right and what's moral and what's politically correct these days. 0.99
00:33:59.320 And they abandon all of that as soon as any hot water touches their backside.
00:34:05.080 Yeah. Just a quick thing on her leadership ambitions. I don't think she has strong French. 0.99
00:34:10.980 And I think that would be a barrier for her to go further. I think she just wants to play for a 0.56
00:34:16.120 powerful role within the party. And Justin Trudeau is the most lightweight person in cabinet.
00:34:22.480 Well, maybe not worse than some of his quota hires like Miriam Monsef. So I should take that back. But 0.98
00:34:29.420 if Jody Wilson-Raybould has a real ideological agenda, and if she's pushed General Butts out of 1.00
00:34:36.320 the way, she'll be the big dog in cabinet. I mean, Justin Trudeau doesn't have any strong views on
00:34:40.540 anything. He just does what Butts tells him. So I think that I think Jody Wilson-Raybould is just
00:34:44.680 trying to get some power, maybe getting some things for her and her dad and her people. 0.70
00:34:49.240 Maybe this is the end of a 40-year campaign by her family to right some historic wrongs in her mind.
00:34:55.240 I mean, I don't give it that much detail, right? I think she sees an opening. She's pushing it as
00:35:01.200 hard as she can and will discover how far this takes her. Does this play into a greater ambition
00:35:08.000 of hers to perhaps someday be prime minister? I mean, you say her French isn't very good,
00:35:12.400 but she checks an awful lot of other boxes. She's a woman. She's indigenous. I mean, there's all
00:35:17.740 sorts of she's from the West Coast. There's all sorts of reasons why she's a very attractive 1.00
00:35:22.440 potential for the liberal party. I don't say she's attractive for the country as PM, but among liberals, 0.65
00:35:28.480 she's very attractive for a lot of these reasons. And so I just think she sees an opportunity and she's
00:35:33.760 going to push it as far as she can without having an end point in mind.
00:35:38.700 Yeah. I don't know if you saw it, but Solomon Friedman, who's a very, very smart criminal lawyer
00:35:44.380 in Ottawa. I mean, he's a whiz kid. He's co-authored books with judges. He's an unbelievably
00:35:50.340 smart guy. I used to know him a little bit better when I was at Sun News. I saw him on Don Martin's
00:35:56.900 show. And I'm just going to play a quick clip of this. And this is my last question for you,
00:36:01.120 because Solomon, unlike most pundits, actually read the law and how it would the law regarding
00:36:07.760 these remediation agreements or these deferred prosecution agreements. That's a fancy way of
00:36:13.380 saying, OK, we won't actually prosecute you for your crimes if you just say you're sorry and make
00:36:19.200 amends. Here, take a quick look of Solomon Friedman talking to Don Martin on CTV. Take a look.
00:36:26.100 Well, one of the reasons that all of this smells so much is that, I mean, first of all, the deferred
00:36:31.020 prosecution regime in and of itself smells. But if you look at it and you look at what does it take
00:36:36.160 to qualify, you start going through, there are a list of factors. So one of the things is, has the
00:36:40.440 company or its representatives been convicted in the past? Guess what? They have. How high up in terms
00:36:47.180 of the company hierarchy does the corruption go? Well, in the case of SNC-Lavalin, to the very top.
00:36:52.660 How serious are these allegations or previous convictions? Well, they're bribing officials
00:36:57.740 to get the Montreal Hospital project, right? So when you look at this list of factors, have
00:37:03.120 reparations been made, really? Have the people of Libya been made whole for the hundreds of
00:37:07.280 millions of dollars that were stolen from the citizens to enrich the Gaddafis? Of course not. 0.87
00:37:11.660 So SNC-Lavalin would never qualify for one of these arrangements by the letter of the law.
00:37:18.680 Huh. So it would take friends in high places to make that happen?
00:37:21.880 Maybe a little undue influence, maybe some pressure, maybe some directing, all those things
00:37:25.620 that we're hearing about. It's not a surprise when you look at the law. This is not a law
00:37:29.220 that a company like SNC-Lavalin, given their past track record, could ever qualify for.
00:37:35.420 That was very illuminating to me. And it was the first time I had heard in this whole saga
00:37:40.080 an actual criminal law expert talk about the deferred prosecution agreement. And here's my point,
00:37:47.740 that's why I wanted to show that clip. Lauren, I believe this matter will all go away because both
00:37:53.980 Jody Wilson-Raybould and Justin Trudeau will find an optimal outcome where they both are
00:37:59.580 mutually better by cooperating than one stabbing the other to death. And I believe that they will
00:38:07.340 find a way, log rolling, back scratching, whatever you want to say, unless the RCMP get involved.
00:38:13.020 I believe it was the RCMP that undid Stephen Harper or the police with their prosecution of
00:38:20.120 Mike Duffy, which he was acquitted, but it turned into a two-year saga. I think that the media fatigue
00:38:27.480 is setting in and Wilson-Raybould and Trudeau will work this out. But if there was a criminal charge,
00:38:32.920 I think it's all bets are off. And I think Trudeau will lose the election. Do you think that that's
00:38:39.080 a possibility? Do you think that the RCMP is even independent enough to start asking questions? We
00:38:45.220 saw David Lamenti, the new attorney general say, Oh, I didn't even talk to Trudeau. I just saw things
00:38:49.780 in the media. That's enough for me. No need for me to investigate. It's all set by me. Do you think
00:38:54.820 a cop's going to take a different point of view? Or do you think the new RCMP commissioner will say,
00:38:58.100 no, no, no. Trudeau appointed me and I'm returning the favor?
00:39:01.640 Yeah. I asked a couple of former senior Mounties who I know whether or not this is something that
00:39:09.500 the RCMP is likely to get into. And both of them said, you know, they're not afraid to come in.
00:39:16.120 It's not that they picked on the Harper-Duffy thing and wouldn't pick on a Trudeau-Wilson-Raybould
00:39:23.220 item in the same way. It's just that they didn't think either one of them thought that this rose
00:39:27.820 to the level of criminal behavior on the part of the PMO. And so they didn't expect, and I don't
00:39:35.840 either, that the RCMP will get involved. But not because they like the liberals, they like Trudeau,
00:39:41.860 not because of that. It's just because it doesn't meet their standard.
00:39:44.800 Yeah. Well, I mean, in his defense, SNC-Lavalin, they registered more than 50 lobbying meetings.
00:39:52.260 They weren't exactly hiding it. They weren't exactly. I mean, unlike Libya, their schemes and 0.97
00:39:59.760 scams here were published for all to see.
00:40:02.400 Very likely money would have had to change hands. You remember in the case with Duffy that
00:40:08.120 that Stephen Harper's chief of staff at the time paid Duffy's expenses. That sort of set
00:40:18.620 off alarm bells, apparently, with the Mounties, who then started to investigate. Found no criminal
00:40:22.800 behavior, but that's what set off their investigation. There's no sense that Lavalin has given the
00:40:28.680 liberals money this time. Not that it hasn't happened in the past, but this time. And so I
00:40:34.380 think we probably will not see the Mounties get involved. Yeah. Well, I mean, you can hear it
00:40:38.880 here first. I hereby then predict, based on what you assess as the low risk of a criminal prosecution,
00:40:45.400 I hereby predict Justin Trudeau will be reelected with at least a minority government in the fall of
00:40:50.340 2020. I do too. It's disturbing for me to have to say this. And the polls now are trending downward
00:40:56.260 for the liberals. But I think when push comes to shove in an election in October, that there are just
00:41:01.500 enough sycophantic liberals in liberal voters in the country that they'll say, Oh, my goodness,
00:41:07.500 we can't risk having a Doug Ford, a Jason Kenney, Donald Trump running our country. We must elect
00:41:15.320 reelect that wonderful Sonny Ways man. Yeah, I think you're right. All right,
00:41:19.620 Lauren, great to talk to you. Thanks for your time today. You bet. Okay, there you have it.
00:41:23.440 Lauren Gunter, the senior columnist for the Edmonton Sun. By the way, he's written two very
00:41:28.320 interesting editorials about this one's called Don't Expect Butts Signature Policies to Leave
00:41:32.960 with the Man. I absolutely agree with that. And another one called Butts is Out, which only fuels
00:41:37.340 further speculation. I encourage you to read those at edmontonsun.com. Stay with us. More ahead on the
00:41:42.780 rebel. Hey, welcome back to my monologue yesterday about the resignation of Gerald Butts. James
00:41:58.480 writes, Butts was the mastermind behind Alton McGinty, too, that also ended in scandal. Corruption
00:42:04.460 follows this guy around. I truly believe that. And I worked very briefly a long time ago as an
00:42:14.700 assistant to Preston Manning. So we were in the opposition. We had no power whatsoever. But I can
00:42:19.140 tell you the way that leader of the party acted, everyone looks to the leader. How does the leader
00:42:25.000 act? How does his chief of staff act? Everyone watches. And if the leader flies economy class in the
00:42:31.660 airplane, if the leader has a lean expense account, everyone says, okay, that's how we roll around
00:42:38.400 here. It would be awkward if the leader of your party is sitting in the economy class of the airplane
00:42:45.060 and the staffer were to fly in first class, right? And that's the thing. Preston Manning, just like his
00:42:50.380 father, Ernest Manning, set a personal moral example. Justin Trudeau and Gerald Butts have both
00:42:58.500 pigged out. I give you the example of Butts spending $127,000 moving from Toronto to Ottawa.
00:43:06.200 How do you even do that? So everyone watches and says, oh, he's putting two nannies on the payroll.
00:43:11.920 Oh, he's taking a secret trip on Billionaire Island. Oh, he's getting away with what he can. Oh,
00:43:17.060 he was caught for convictions under the Conflict of Interest Act, but no big deal. That's the lesson
00:43:22.920 Gerald Butts taught. Paul writes, as long as Butts is in Ottawa in any capacity, he'll be running the
00:43:30.120 show. Oh, yeah. I mean, or Toronto. Like I say, he was in Toronto until a few years ago. He can work
00:43:36.000 the phones and by email from anywhere, Skype from anywhere. And I say again, the Globe and Mail is
00:43:41.960 literally the day after Butts quit. The Globe said, oh, yeah, he was going to take a leave of absence
00:43:48.180 anyways. And they certainly haven't ruled out him running the campaign. Do you think for a second
00:43:52.900 that he's still not running things? Bruce writes, some media folks think Butts is out of the game,
00:43:59.760 but we know better. As for Kean being attacked, I hope and pray the anti-fascist will be found.
00:44:05.460 Apparently they didn't get the memo from Dion Buse. Well, thanks very much, Bruce. We are, in fact,
00:44:10.840 I should try and get a video out on this tomorrow. We are looking through footage and photographs
00:44:15.820 to try to identify the guy who hit Kean. Now, obviously Kean wasn't hurt in the same way that
00:44:21.280 David Menzies and our cameraman Ephraim were not hurt a few weeks ago when they were punched by the
00:44:26.280 guy at the Radisson Toronto East. But that's not the point. The test for not being punched is, well,
00:44:32.220 he didn't hurt you. He didn't hurt you. That's not the test. The test is you're not allowed to punch
00:44:36.840 people in Canada, even if you disagree with them. So it is my plan, and I'll outline this in a video.
00:44:41.400 Hopefully I'll get it up tomorrow. First of all, we're going to have a bounty.
00:44:45.820 To find the name of this guy who punched Kean. And we'll pay cash. I'm thinking 500 bucks.
00:44:53.620 And second of all, we're going to sue him to kingdom come. And not out of vengeance,
00:45:00.320 because if we win, he'll get a slap on the wrist, obviously. But to make the point that you cannot
00:45:06.480 punch a journalist with impunity. Out of self-respect, we have to sue. Out of justice,
00:45:14.660 we have to sue. To set a precedent and a deterrent, we have to sue. We cannot let it be that someone
00:45:20.560 can punch a rebel, Kean, Sheila, David, Ephraim, whoever. You cannot do that in this country.
00:45:28.280 And hopefully we'll get the police involved, but if they decline, we will sue in civil court.
00:45:32.660 That's a promise. Until tomorrow, on behalf of all of us here at Rebel World Headquarters,
00:45:38.200 see you at home. Good night. And keep fighting for freedom.