In this episode of the Red Ice Podcast, we discuss a recent incident involving white nationalists in Sweden, and the impact it had on the nationalist movement in general. We speak with Henrik Eriksson, a seasoned nationalist in Sweden who has been involved in nationalist movements in Sweden for a long time. We discuss the current state of white nationalism in Sweden and what it means for the future of the movement.
00:05:15.340Do you want to talk to you, too, do you want to talk to you, too, and we're going to talk to you, too, and we're going to talk with our guest today here about, well, beginning in a situation that happened in Sweden recently, and then extend it from there and kind of discuss where the, well, for one, where the nationalist movement is going, how it's doing, what's happening with it.
00:05:36.060But also, of course, what is it in the short term, right?
00:05:40.340As you have younger guys coming in, very, very good drive, lots of energy, lots of excitement, lots of desire to act and to do something now, which, of course, is 100% understandable.
00:05:55.340But, of course, at the same time, if you don't have planning, if you don't have something that's set up, if you don't have long-term goals, if you don't view this as a marathon as opposed to a sprint, right, to make that analogy, what happens then in that sense?
00:06:11.100So we had a situation in Sweden where supposedly, allegedly, and I'll ask our guest more about this because he's looked into the backstory to this more than I have, but obviously I heard about it.
00:06:21.400It was a couple of guys from one of the active clubs in Sweden, I think it was active club Stockholm specifically, allegedly, that took part in some what appears to be random violence as opposed to defensive violence against specific targets.
00:06:35.520And, of course, this kind of spurred on a debate within the Swedish nationalist scene, but I think this could be extended to many nationalist groups.
00:06:42.400There's many similar active clubs, of course, around the Western European white world, if you will.
00:06:48.260And you're almost seeing, for a while, we saw kind of a white nationalism 2.0, I like to call it.
00:06:52.840And the question now is, are we seeing kind of a re-emergence or maybe a reversal back to white nationalism 1.0, more in that vein?
00:07:05.300I was kind of casually observing these kids that were a little bit older than me were, you know, attracted in Sweden at the time to kind of the skinhead movement.
00:07:11.820They had the bomber jackets, they had the Doc Martin shoes and stuff, and there was like a fashion trend essentially in Sweden.
00:07:18.400But it was a good nationalist sentiment that was on the rise at the time because that's when immigration really started in Sweden.
00:07:26.540And then after that, of course, it was vehemently, you know, attacked by the state and so forth.
00:07:31.480And there was, as far as I understand, the situation there as well, lots of random acts of violence.
00:07:36.500And again, our guest, Donny Exxon, can tell us more about this, too.
00:07:38.960He's a seasoned nationalist in Sweden.
00:07:41.020He's been involved in a long time in nationalist movements in Sweden and seen this and taken part of that.
00:07:48.880And so he has a good insight into this.
00:07:50.960And really, he wrote a couple of articles debating this of, like, he's seeing some of the mistakes, right, that happened at that time kind of being, happening again, essentially, of course.
00:10:11.420Because in total, there are three victims, but it's different times during the night.
00:10:19.400So, in the span of, like, one hour, they got into three different fights.
00:10:26.340Or to call it fights, it's maybe not correct, because it was always, like, them as a group against one, according to the police investigation.
00:10:37.700As I said, the trial started today, and in the investigation, the young guys only answered no comments to every question.
00:10:47.540And today, they have just pled non-guilty and said there is no – because the state attorney, it comes to assault, aggravated assault, robbery, and that it's a hate crime.
00:11:05.020And when it's a hate crime, you get a harsher punishment.
00:11:07.720So, they also, of course, deny that being a hate crime at all.
00:11:11.840So, we can just discuss what's in the police investigation and the bigger discussion around it that has now, you know, really been the main topic in the Swedish nationalist movement the last couple of weeks.
00:11:24.820But according to the police investigation, these guys have attacked three different people, non-Swedish people, in the streets, apparently for almost no reason at all.
00:11:39.520It was not – according to the police investigation and the state attorney, it was not in self-defense.
00:11:44.900And while doing this, they were also doing the Roman salutes.
00:11:53.380They had some kind of pen with them and draw, like, graffiti or tags of – writing, you know, AKS, so Active Club Stockholm or Active Club Sweden.
00:12:10.080I think swastikas as well and stuff like that on, like, the window to some shops and, you know, many stuff like that.
00:12:20.900That's what made it also look like something political.
00:12:24.760Of course, four guys getting drunk in a bar and then getting into unprovoked fights happens every weekend in Stockholm.
00:13:25.140So the big discussion now comes, how should a nationalist scene talk about these kind of things?
00:13:34.520As I said, four guys getting drunk and doing something stupid, it's not even news.
00:13:42.300Sweden has, you know, big problems with shootings, knife murders, rapes, all of this.
00:13:50.300Yeah, this shouldn't be an issue when you put it in context to the organized crime and the rapes and the assaults and the violence, the humiliation crime.
00:13:58.880But, you know, regardless, these are, you know, these are guys we care about and we look after them and we don't want them to end up in a bad situation.
00:14:06.380Hence, we're talking about it, obviously.
00:14:08.800So when I read about this and I looked through the police investigation, what struck me the most was that this could have been me 25 years ago.
00:14:19.060When I joined the nationalist movement, there was like this end of the skinhead area, the beginning of more of a free nationalist scene.
00:14:29.080There was a lot of overlap with like casual scene and hooligans and so on.
00:14:34.120But there was a lot of violence, a lot of, I must admit, unprovoked violence in the sense that, you know, random people could get in the way of a group of young nationalists and get beaten.
00:14:47.320Back in my days, we didn't have that many CCTV cameras like today because now all of this was happening in the most surveilled areas of Stockholm, as well as in one subway train, which also, of course, is filled with cameras.
00:15:05.380But when I was young, the nationalist scene was young people and it was led by young people.
00:15:12.420There were no older generation who could tell us there is a different path that is more constructive.
00:15:18.720And when I look back at the guys that I grew up with in the nationalist movement, they today has either, you know, left the movement completely and chose another life or they became lifestyle criminals.
00:15:36.420They left politics and joined a criminal gang, a motorcycle club or whatever, or they are dead or in prison.
00:15:46.540It's really, it was such a destructive movement.
00:15:52.060And just, and for that, I mean, we did many stupid things.
00:15:57.480And I had wished that there were some older guys who could tell us, no, that's wrong.
00:16:09.680At least I would have, at least I would have been given a, you know, an opportunity to do something, something different.
00:16:17.260And so the first thing was like, I recognize this and I understand these guys.
00:16:23.820I don't say that I support what they have done or that I can excuse it, but I can understand what's going through their head.
00:16:32.080And I understand that they are so filled with frustration, you know, from a society that never listens to them.
00:16:39.040Uh, and, uh, uh, media that just, you know, always write hit pieces against them exactly like it was for us.
00:16:48.840And, um, then you get into these kinds of situations, uh, and, and bad things happen.
00:16:56.500So I can understand where they are coming from.
00:17:00.720Um, but I was, I'm really hoping that this generation will be better than my generation was.
00:17:09.560And you mean, you don't have to throw your friends under the bus and, and stuff like that, but you have to, I think, be clear from the organizational point of view from the active clubs and other organizations that this is not the way that we are going.
00:17:26.980This is not the constructive way of, you know, creating a change in Sweden, uh, in the long run, because it is not, it has been tried and done before.
00:17:38.340And this is also typical when you're young, you, you think that the older generation don't know what you're going through.
00:17:46.480And, you know, it's all so different now, of course, some things are different, but I mean, I grew up in a multicultural area.
00:17:54.840I was the, when I started 10th grade in high school, I was the only Swede in my class.
00:18:00.120I was fighting this, uh, all these problems and this, this, um, great replacement, um, already in the end of the nineties.
00:18:10.760Um, of course it was not that widespread as it is today, but we were many young Swedish guys who grew up in this, who were met with this anti-Swedish racism, who had to use our fists and whatever we could find, um, to, to defend ourselves.
00:18:29.360Um, but this, what, what happened this night in, in, in, in Stockholm, as at least according to the police investigation, we haven't really heard the story from the guys yet.
00:18:40.460It doesn't seem like self-defense and even though I can understand where they are coming from, I think it has to be clear that if the active clubs and the young guys now getting organized are going to have a future and have a positive impact, they need to do, uh, do different than what we did 25 years ago.
00:19:03.400Right. Yeah. So we're talking about a handful so far. And, um, uh, again, I, I'm not sure what the total membership is, but this seems a fairly small and fractional thing, but I guess what you're reacting to is, is the supposed kind of reaction to it, that this is kind of, you know, glorified on some level, which again, you know, put it in context, you, you understand that. Right. Cause like finally Swedes are fighting back. Right. I mean, that's kind of the initial impression you get like, you know, and, um, and we've seen so little of that. So that's where it is.
00:19:33.020However, there's a bigger issue here when it comes to like, okay, well, if this then becomes your lifestyle, right. It's like we compared to the other crime and the violence we've seen, it's nothing, but we are also held to a very, very different standard. Uh, and that there needs to be an awareness of that.
00:19:48.300That like, if, if guys that are nationalists, specifically those that are organized in this capacity do this type of violence, they will be put under much more legal pressure, uh, and probably locked away a lot longer, um, than, than other, you know, migrants, you know, criminal migrants would, or whatever action that they've actually done. Um, so that there needs to be an awareness of that.
00:20:09.580And I'm, I'm certainly that there, I'm certain that there is obviously to a certain extent, but it could create this basic, as you say, lifestyle where a lot of good, well-meaning young men, there are driven, they're on our side, they're nationalists at the core.
00:20:21.580They want the best for their people and the Swedish nation. Uh, but they end up in a cycle of basically criminality in and out of prison systems. Um, and it doesn't evolve into something else that is more organized, more formalized, more something that actually lays foundations now that they can be helped part of building that we will be beneficial, not only to them, but hopefully to their kids and so forth.
00:20:45.660That there's a multi-generational thing, right? As I said, in the beginning, you get viewed as a marathon, not a sprint. However, these guys, they want to sprint and the situation is dire too. However, what does it resolve going out and beating up a random migrant? If that's what happened, right? What's, what's the point of that, right?
00:21:04.520Yeah, exactly. And, um, you, because you said maybe the first impression from people are finding that the Swedes are fighting back. I would say this is not fighting back because it's,
00:21:15.660it has to be organized. It has to be a strategical, you know, there has to be like some kind of plan. Okay. If we do X, Y said, what the, what will then happen? Um, just randomly picking out a few, uh, non Swedes to beat up, uh, usually only leads to, you know, giving our enemies some ammunition against us. Now they're talking about, uh, changing a few laws from the 1930s to be able to ban groups.
00:21:44.660groups like the active clubs. And as you know, in Sweden, we have had the, the freedom of association has been really, really strong. It's been impossible to ban parties, to ban organizations.
00:21:56.660And we have always had a strong protection against collective punishment, uh, which means that you can be sentenced on an individual level, but you can never be sentenced for just being a member of something.
00:22:11.660Um, now they are changing, uh, this, the basic law in Sweden to be able to, um, you know, in some way pulling this back off. And officially they have been talking about like Islamist groups. Um, uh, of course, because then you can get the people behind this.
00:22:29.660Yes. But now the last week we have seen from the biggest party in Sweden, the social Democrats that they want to change some other laws to also be able to ban the active clubs.
00:22:40.660Um, and I mean, just because of this incident alone, that's the main issue or is there other reasons?
00:22:47.660Well, there have been some other cases as well, the last year, uh, connected to the active club, uh, similar to this one.
00:22:54.660Um, and, uh, the thing is it could be yes.
00:23:06.660The problem, what I see here is that a lot of really, really good young guys.
00:23:12.660I've met many of them, you know, we, we invited them to, they have used our, we have this big house where we, um, have our meetings and so on.
00:23:20.660Uh, we have two houses actually, and they have been able to use both of them for their meetings and, and trainings and so on, because they can't rent a place under their own name.
00:23:31.660Uh, so we have given them access to our infrastructure, of course, free of charge and so on.
00:23:36.660But this meant that I met many of these guys and I must say to me, they were really sharp, good guys, you know, with, uh, uh, you know, in many ways, because when you read this police investigation, you get the image of like some kind of anti-social people.
00:23:55.660That was not my impression when I met them.
00:23:58.660And if the active club gets banned, if they start, you know, doing, uh, house raids and so on, like they did to us, uh, 25, 20 or 25 years ago.
00:24:08.660Um, it can destroy lives for many people.
00:24:13.660Yes. Look, uh, and January 6th or, um, Charlotte's will, or whatever, how many people got their lives destroyed after that.
00:25:20.660Now you can decide as an organization, if you want to go into the same, um, the same pitfalls that we did, you know, where a lot of people will end up in prison.
00:25:33.660Maybe some will end up dead, uh, and some lives will be ruined, or you can go in another direction where you can continue doing the great work you do to promote a drug free youth, um, fitness, uh, and nationalism.
00:25:52.660But in a way that is more focused on how can we become the best that we can be so we can, um, be an asset to nationalism for 40, 50, 60 years and not just crash and burn after six months.
00:26:08.660Right. You're saying there, if, if it continues on this path, it will be another squandered opportunity.
00:26:13.660It will be an opportunity lost and running out into the sand.
00:26:20.660Again, since I'm not privy to any of the internal, you know, uh, ongoings here or whatnot, but there is, of course, certain things you can do.
00:26:27.660Again, I'm not sure what the type of, um, expectations are, I guess, of, of members and so forth.
00:26:34.660Uh, I, I would assume there's some type of internal disciplinary, you know, method in order to control that somehow you, of course have, which we should mention to the other aspect of like, these might be fairly recent guys that joined, for example, that just got in there.
00:26:49.660And then they do something like this and this helps to cast shade on it.
00:26:52.660Maybe that's, maybe that's partially part of it.
00:27:23.660What do you think they, they need interfacing more with other groups?
00:27:26.660There's always a lot of cross pollination, I think internally anyway, right?
00:27:29.660A lot of different groups that do different things, whether they're focused on building institutions, uh, you know, creating a future for the Swedish people like you guys are with the free Sweden association.
00:27:39.660Uh, and then you have these active clubs, you have other type of nationalist organizations.
00:27:43.660And I do think there's quite a bit of cross pollination, right?
00:27:49.660And, uh, uh, a few months ago, uh, we sat down with, I would say those who I identify as the leaders of the, of the active clubs in Sweden.
00:28:00.660Um, I might be wrong because it's not like they are not an organization in a traditional way.
00:28:05.660It's not like they have this, uh, typical hierarchy hierarchy that you have in a political party or stuff like that.
00:28:12.660But I would say that those, these were guys that had a lot of respect from the other guys as well, uh, at least.
00:28:19.660Uh, and we talked, uh, about exactly this, me and, uh, Magnus Söderman, uh, who is also on the board of the Fria Sverige, uh, who was, um, previously in the, in the Swedish resistance movement before they became the Nordic resistance movement.
00:28:36.660Um, and also I say a long time nationalist and we told them the importance of not adopting a criminal identity, because when we look back at our youth, this is exactly what we did.
00:28:51.660We didn't understand it back then, but when you look back at it, so, uh, of course, in many ways we are outsiders, but in, in many ways we have, uh, you know, this identity has become so important.
00:29:05.660You just start to hate everything with mainstream society.
00:29:10.660And you can even see people start starting to hate their own people.
00:29:14.660Uh, and I think when, when hate is your main motivation, you can, you make a lot of mistakes and this criminal identity, um, it's like, okay, but I don't care about the law.
00:29:28.660The law, the law comes from a, an unjust government and so on, which might sound like your Robin hood.
00:29:35.660But if that comes down to like it did in our movement, I don't say this is what the active club is doing now, but this made that in our generation, you know, we excused.
00:29:47.660Some of our guys selling drugs because they are good guys, you know, they are, they are nationalists.
00:29:56.660Uh, we excused, um, a lot of antisocial behavior, which I would say was like the biggest, uh, thing holding us back back then.
00:30:08.660And what happened was that, uh, the Sweden Democrats, you know, that they were a part of the nationalist movement in Sweden.
00:30:17.660They decided to break away, uh, sometime around year 2000, I would say, especially 2005, but it started a bit earlier to get away from this destructive movement.
00:30:28.660Uh, and they of course have had a lot of success.
00:30:33.660I'm not very happy with them today for, for many different reasons, but the, uh, the old movement that was left, um, continued to accept this antisocial behavior, which made us, you know, that was impossible for us to grow any larger than, you know, a few thousand people.
00:30:57.660I think we gathered 2000 people at the biggest demonstration, uh, 2002 and, and, and Salem, um, which of course sounds like a lot of people, but, uh, in reality, it's, it's a very small movement.
00:31:13.660When, when you gather all the people you can and you gather 2000, and I think maybe 500 of them were foreign nationalists who came for the demonstration.
00:31:22.660Uh, so the movement didn't have any real success instead, a lot of people got either burned out or some of the more antisocial guys went into, um, criminal, uh, criminal lifestyle.
00:31:35.660Uh, and, and, and, um, if they, if, if, if we see the young guys doing the same thing again, they will, they will have the same result.
00:31:45.660What they do internally now, I can't tell, uh, I, I don't know.
00:31:49.660Um, I've written, um, personal messages to, uh, some of these guys, the leaders that we sat down with.
00:31:58.660I I've heard through the grape wines that, uh, they are not very happy with me and many other older nationalist guys, uh, speaking out in the way we do right now.
00:32:10.660Uh, I hope they will see that we do this because we do care about them.
00:32:15.660We don't want them to make the same mistakes as we did.
00:32:19.660We don't do it to push them away or to tell them that everything they're doing is wrong or trying to say exactly how they should run their organization.
00:32:29.660Um, but I really believe they are at the crossroad and, and, uh, they can still make something really, really good out of this.
00:32:38.660There are good guys, uh, promoting a drug free life with fitness and nationalism is the, is a great thing to do.
00:32:48.660Uh, and if it's done correctly, I do believe that they can shape a new generation of Swedes, which, uh, will become an integral part of, uh, of the future nationalist change in, in Sweden.
00:33:05.660Um, looking at the UK, for example, remember there, right? Uh, national action. Was it, it was banned. That's, uh, how many years ago is that now? Almost 10, eight, six, eight years ago.
00:33:15.660I forget what it is. Right. Uh, but of course this is kind of similar as far as I understand it somewhat, at least, uh, you know, structure, whatever.
00:33:21.660And so of course there is a issue here where you might shoot yourself in the foot and some argument could be like, well, it doesn't matter what we do.
00:33:27.660They will target us anyway. And, and, and certainly that's true, but that doesn't mean you should give them any reason, right?
00:33:33.660Legal reasons to actually go after you in this kind of capacity, uh, and then help to shut, uh, shut, shut the organization down.
00:33:39.660And then what happens then? Well, you have formed something new. And then it's the question of, well, maybe now the members, uh, are prohibited from being able to form any type of organ.
00:33:51.660I don't know what the, you know, legally how this plays out or what happened. I'm not sure if national action in the UK simply just, you know, reformed itself and became something, something different.
00:34:01.660Uh, but the, the point there is you could end up shooting yourself in the foot where basically any tension that you have or something that you want to do simply just, uh, runs out into the sand and nothing happens.
00:34:12.660Nothing comes from it. You squandered that opportunity. And now the, you've given the state a reason for them to clamp down on you as opposed to before with at least that they legally wouldn't have that reason.
00:34:23.660Right. So yeah. So this comes from a point of view of, uh, of love, tough love and, and, and caring genuinely about them.
00:34:29.660Cause I think they do great, uh, things very positive for a lot of young Swedish guys to get involved in that. Uh, but if it's simply disbanded and banned and you have law changes, what, what was it all for?
00:34:41.660Right. What's the purpose? What's the point? Um, what you're doing. And of course we, you know, we risk a B we're the boom, we're the boomers now, I guess, to a certain extent. Right.
00:34:49.660You're like, ah, they don't understand. They don't get it. You know, kind of thing. But as you said, no, actually when I was young. Yeah.
00:34:55.660Well, in my days. Um, so yes, I get, I get that point too. Oh, what the hell do you do? You just, you know, you're a streamer, you know, you're, you're a fat, blah, you know, whatever the excuses are.
00:35:10.100Yes. Um, but, uh, no, this should be complimentary, right? This, this, this, what they do is in addition to what other nationalist groups are doing and not, and other nationalists, you do, you do, you do need someone who can, who can talk about this and expose it in that kind of capacity, who can be face out, right?
00:35:26.340Like we are and have our identity out there because that's the other spin to it too. Right.
00:35:30.820I, I, I, I very, I saw a post from Christian, uh, I said, I said, because that's his handle, but it puts on where he kind of like, uh, I just don't like the language of it.
00:35:44.180He, he, look, he does great work with exposing Antifa and stuff. He's been highly involved in this issue now of exposing, um, the, uh, co-founder of Rose City Antifa over in Oregon, how she has a Swedish husband and they are living now in Vorberg, uh, right.
00:36:01.340But, you know, when you're like saying several activists from the neo-Nazi organization, Active Club, like, are they that? Yeah, maybe, but we know what words they use and why they use those words, you know, kind of thing.
00:36:12.320And that's simply to demonize or to legitimize, uh, legal actions against them and saying, this is bad people. So I'm not sure why he uses that language. I like his work as I said, so it's fine. And, and he does what he does, but still, um, so it's very hard.
00:36:25.700No, no, no. I must say that, um, I've had the same criticism. I talked to him personally about it.
00:36:31.300It was another article. I think the first article he wrote about this, which had many good points, but just because of some of the wording, I, I believe nationalists cannot take it serious.
00:36:42.300And that's, that's a big problem because they should be your target audience for such an article. Um, but when you use the language of our enemies, when you started talking about extremism and neo-Nazis and so on, then, then you have another target audience in mind, I guess.
00:37:03.080I don't know which audience that is and why they would care because that kind of wording you will find in the, in the daily newspapers and the tabloids. They, you know, they use that kind of wording all the time.
00:37:13.820So I also think Christian is doing great work, uh, and he has done some really good articles on this as well. But, uh, as you said, the wording is, um, there are some questions to be raised.
00:37:27.120Yeah. I'm not sure why, just, I mean, Christian has passed in alternative for Sweden, right? Who was part of that movement and stuff. And they called them neo-Nazis too. I mean, so this pivot is maybe it's personal or something.
00:37:37.820Or the mainstream media call him a neo-Nazis. Right. Well, exactly. Which makes this ironic, but okay, whatever. Leaving that to the side, he has his issues. He wants to pivot towards, I don't know, Andy knows audience maybe or something, but anyway.
00:37:50.460Um, so, uh, I would leave that out of it and say, but, but still from a point of view of like, Hey, look, you know, you claim it, it becomes fishy when you say you, because there's so many people and this is just a handful.
00:38:02.080So, but again, we're addressing this because we're concerned about the development. And if this, you know, continues as opposed to then is internally reprimanded and it was like, Hey guys, discipline, get your act together.
00:38:13.420This is just, um, uh, you know, red hearted, uh, you know, explosion of energy, which is of course, again, a hundred percent understandable and legitimate.
00:38:22.240But the point here, and the goal is to, I hope, build something that is long lasting, that works, that on ramps a lot of new nationalists and younger Swedish guys can see that this is a role model.
00:38:33.340They get fit, they get cleaned up, they get disciplined. They become a better version of themselves. They feel confident, but out of that, and it's not just even the structure of the active club itself.
00:38:43.520I think there's other models in other countries where it might've started or formed around the idea of an active club of sorts, but then eventually you get, or, you know, a fight club or something, but eventually you, this grows into a community.
00:38:55.640It grows into people that know each other, that trust each other. They have, you know, might have events eventually where they bring their wives and or kids or, you know, or they meet someone there at these types of settings and whatnot. Right.
00:39:05.720And it can grow into something which is much more than just centered around the active club aspect of it, which I think is a, you know, a positive development because, you know, every year everyone gets older, right?
00:39:18.400And eventually these guys will have a few more years under their belt as well. And what do you do then? Right.
00:39:23.700So it's this issue of like, you know, kind of professionalism and discipline and conducting yourself in a way which is, you know, I get it.
00:39:32.260It's like respectable in this day and age is so fuzzy because we're living in a society that's totally upside down when it comes to these types of values.
00:39:39.800But I think we have an idea of what that is regardless and that you should adhere to those types of standards, right?
00:39:45.780As opposed to just squander and in a burst of energy, as we have a saying in Sweden,
00:39:50.480up like a sun, down like a pancake, right?
00:39:53.720It's an explosion of energy, which is great, but the risk of it is when it catches on too fast or growing too fast or the excitement is too much too early without it being contained or channeled into constructive things also,
00:40:08.620in addition to what you're doing, that it might just kind of blow up on you. Right? Do you agree, Don?
00:40:13.640Yeah, right. Absolutely. And, you know, talking about what Christian wrote and so on and what's happening online,
00:40:22.600there is another big issue here that we need to talk about.
00:40:27.440It's the, like, I'm all for anonymity online.
00:40:34.940I think most people should remain anonymous.
00:40:37.500It makes no sense that you don't need to, you know, be a public person like you and me.
00:40:47.280But when you see a lot of anonymous people online sharing on and, you know, saying, yeah, go on, keep kicking those asses, blah, blah, blah.
00:40:58.780You know, it's good. The revolution is coming.
00:41:00.920And you're just thinking, because I have no idea who these people are.
00:41:06.160Are they some activists who just want to be anonymous?
00:41:10.280Or are they as keyboard warriors who, you know, or sometimes I guess it's like people who see this as entertainment.
00:41:18.060So I remember when the Nordic resistance movement had their demonstrations live streamed, a lot of people tuned in to live streams, most of them in hope of seeing some riots.
00:41:33.220So it's some kind of riot violence entertainment that people are hoping for.
00:41:39.220But the problem is that you have real guys here, real good young guys who can do something really, really productive for a nationalist movement, who read all of these anonymous posts and think, yeah, we have the people behind us.
00:41:54.100Let's go continue doing what we did here.
00:41:57.940So this is another part of the problem, which I think Christian wrote very good about.
00:42:04.720And this also has to be in some way contained or talked about.
00:42:14.360So, you know, when you're young, I remember myself in those days, I believe that, you know, the revolution was around the corner.
00:42:24.380We will see a big uprising among the Swedish men and women the coming five or maximum 10 years.
00:42:33.24010 years felt like an eternity when you're, when you're 18, you know, it's like, wow, it's, will there even be a sun and an earth in 10 years?
00:42:43.820So, you know, when you have that kind of timeframe and you believe that there is this big revolution coming around the corner, these kind of things almost make sense.
00:42:56.160Many in my generation did not only become violent, you know, stopped paying bills, stopped paying taxes.
00:43:14.000And a lot of us had to, you know, get 10 years into paying back a lot of debt before we could even buy our first house and so on.
00:43:23.600This is, and I must say that when you hear people say that, you know, the revolution is around the corner, so now we have to go out on the streets and fight.
00:43:35.240Or people saying the next election is, this is the most important election ever.
00:43:43.040Either we win the next election or we're doomed forever.
00:43:45.820Usually these are two different types of people, but they symbolize the same problem because you use this kind of language to rally people, of course, and it might work.
00:43:59.280But you also, like when it comes to these revolutionary guys, you use a lot of people as pawns.
00:44:30.900It's usually that they need to raise a lot of funds for their electoral campaign, election campaign.
00:44:42.400And in both these cases, I see it as, you know, using nationalist guys in one way, in the one, the revolutionary guys, then the young people.
00:44:56.160And the other is maybe then people with some funds and so on to, you know, and they don't care what happens next.
00:45:08.100We will not win the next election and it doesn't matter.
00:45:11.500There is not a revolution coming in five years and it doesn't matter.
00:45:14.840What we have to understand and what I wish that I understood when I was 20 is that we have to build a foundation now so that our children, our grandchildren can continue building on that.
00:45:30.420During this time, there can be a lot of black swan moments.
00:45:35.180A lot of things can happen that we can't foresee.
00:45:38.620And we need to be prepared for those as good as you can be.
00:45:42.260The thing with black swan is you are not, it's impossible to be 100% prepared for it.
00:45:48.360But we will not start a revolution by beating up random immigrants or by just shouting in the city square.
00:45:59.820And we will not see a revolution through democratic elections because the whole system is built to not make that possible.
00:46:10.760I'm talking about a Swedish situation right now, but I guess it's the same in most Western European and North American countries as well.
00:46:19.960So we need to channel our will and our resources into building foundations and long-lasting institutions that bit by bit can become more and more influential.
00:46:39.980So this is the whole idea when we founded the free Sweden in 2017.
00:46:46.320But I think it's more important than ever.
00:46:51.180Now when we have a young, in Sweden, a young generation of really, really good guys who want to do the right thing.
00:46:57.240And they are motivated to make a difference for themselves and for coming generations of Swedes.
00:47:05.260We can't waste that potential on doing the same mistakes as we did 25 years ago.