Red Ice TV - Out of the Shadows： Pagan Wisdom, Christian Allegory & The European Folk Soul with Gnostic Informant

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00:09:31.940 Thanks to Judaism and Christianity, like, you know, Europe was basically saved from its depths of turmoil and cannibalistic, barbaric, backwards lifestyle.

00:10:11.460 They thought of themselves as gifts created by God, like, every group of people was made by the gods.

00:10:22.800 And I just realized, like, you know, and I just realized, like, I don't need Christianity kind of comes along and takes credit for all these great things that Western civilization produced.

00:10:32.660 But actually, wait a minute.

00:11:02.660 I mean, you know, the country folks, like, yeah, that's what I'm talking about, like, and look, today the word means something completely different.

00:11:07.580 I'm fine.

00:11:37.580 And it just means of paganist.

00:12:07.560 default state as the ethnos as your your ethnic uh uh makeup is just who you are you you're born

00:12:16.560 into there's a whole tradition that your ancestors handed down and the big tragedy that i found out

00:12:23.240 when i was researching history is that a lot of the another another narrative that i was kind of

00:12:29.520 fed growing up was our ancestors wanted to convert they were like wow christianity is so true and

00:12:36.120 awesome we we want to convert and then i actually found out like reading fourth century sources during

00:12:41.880 the reign of julian the apostate um my mercy is one of the sources that i have in the top of my head

00:12:47.680 right now where they were actually rejecting the growing influence of christianity and it looked

00:12:54.380 like it was kind of like um there were more it was more forced upon people maybe not like at the

00:12:59.120 maybe not all the time and like we'll kill you if you don't convert but it was there was a social

00:13:03.940 pressure yes kind of similar to how like the vaccine was sort of pushed on everybody it's like

00:13:08.260 oh if you don't get the vaccine you can't work you can't get on a plane so and like they didn't like

00:13:11.920 force it with jail time but like you were forced to get the vaccine like that type of thing and

00:13:17.440 that's what i noticed in the fourth century what was happening was people didn't really want to

00:13:20.880 convert to christianity only five percent some scholars go up to ten percent so let's just go with

00:13:26.380 that ten percent of the of the empire was christian that means ninety percent of the roman empire

00:13:32.380 was rejecting was like i don't want to be christian but somehow within a few decades everyone had to

00:13:39.140 be christian after the theodosian decree and theodosius and i'm i'll end it at this because

00:13:45.060 i'm saying a lot here theodosius uh issued this decree that canceled the olympic games that were

00:13:51.500 around for a thousand years we just brought him back in the 19th century by the way that i'm glad for

00:13:57.080 that but he um he he he stomped out the fires of vesta that were lit in rome for a thousand years

00:14:03.180 he ended the elozinian mysteries he ended the mithraic mysteries he ended all these sacred sacred

00:14:09.560 games he ended all these um monthly uh festivals that were taking place saturnalia ended and that

00:14:17.600 our ancestors are were handed those down to us we there was a system in place where we had rituals

00:14:24.140 in place depending on where you lived that your ancestors handed down you buried your dead in

00:14:29.360 catacombs where you have ancestors that were there for hundreds of years and you would learn about

00:14:35.340 your ancestry through going to the catacombs and you'd find oh that's my great great great great

00:14:39.560 grandfather that's my great great great great grandmother and you would bury you would get buried

00:14:43.660 you would look forward to being buried in that catacombs with your with your uh with your people

00:14:50.420 and now it's like there's this whole this now we're grafted into the to the vine of israel

00:14:55.280 that's not my people those aren't my ancestors i don't want i don't want to be grafted into some

00:15:01.280 foreign nations religion i want to have my own religion so that's kind of where i'm at right now

00:15:06.300 yeah me too and you don't think of it when you grow up in it you're just you you sit i remember

00:15:10.060 sitting in sunday school and hearing these stories and you know it's kind of weird like there's a donkey

00:15:13.260 in a desert and like i don't really relate to this but it's like but there this lady is telling me

00:15:18.340 about it and i i need to believe this and it's an important story but then we have our important

00:15:23.300 stories you know you're also part slav i'm i'm a slav and i was like wait a minute there's all this

00:15:27.880 these pre-christian traditions that also influenced christianity which we'll discuss but you hesitate

00:15:34.040 to call yourself a pagan for a specific reason i saw you mentioned this in a video so elaborate on this

00:15:39.840 yeah i sort of touched on it when i was uh just before this was that the term pagan was used in a

00:15:47.100 sort of derogatory way to describe people who were illiterate not educated not up to date not

00:15:52.740 following the norms which was christianity at the time and um and so that's why i hesitated and

00:16:00.500 another reason why i hesitated to call myself a pagan because even though i i was fully on board with

00:16:06.560 the metaphysics of plato um pythagoras and even not even just the platonists and philosophers but

00:16:13.620 also just like the poets like pindar and homer and sophocles and some of these greats not only was

00:16:19.540 i drawn to them way more than i was drawn to the bible i was still was like am i can i call myself a

00:16:26.880 pagan if i don't have a priesthood that i attend on a regular basis i'm not offering sacrifices every day

00:16:32.820 i'm not propitiating i'm not doing all this stuff am i not really i'm so i felt like if i call

00:16:38.620 myself a pagan am i larping like it's fake is it fake and you had said something too like well

00:16:44.480 we don't really have anywhere to go to right like a lot of people want it packaged i think that's why

00:16:49.760 a lot of the big religions even though they're they're the newer thing right they have it ready

00:16:54.140 to go like here's the book here's the ritual here's the building you meet on this day of the

00:16:58.460 week and i get there's a need for that but it also has to be alive with room to grow and as there

00:17:03.360 are pagans who are trying to return to something ancient you know to try and kind of resurrect it in the

00:17:08.040 modern era they often do get called you know oh you're larping this looks cheesy but i think it

00:17:12.560 did for early christians too right when they're doing communion and all these other rituals i'm

00:17:17.180 sure other people are looking at them like what the heck are you what are you doing right yes yeah

00:17:21.500 and that's kind of it's funny because now we're in that position now where yeah we have to build our

00:17:26.680 own communities and build our own temples to the gods and have our own little maybe priesthoods and i

00:17:32.520 mean depending on where you are if you can get a community like that that's great if not i mean

00:17:36.240 obviously the internet's a double-edged sword there's you know bad things happening on the

00:17:40.900 internet and also this could be one of the good things that people could bring people together

00:17:44.780 online who believe in these things and whatever whatever it may be survive the jive is a mutual

00:17:50.440 friend of ours who has a lot of resources of like how do i even begin being pagan and i i'll i recommend

00:17:57.300 his stuff too um so now there's definitely some resources has paganism or since you've embraced and

00:18:03.600 started researching and studying and going into the historical record and reading these philosophers

00:18:08.380 has it has it changed the way you live because you know you you grew up christian and then you were

00:18:15.100 exposed to all these things i mean for me it has i i feel like i've let go of of the fear and guilt which

00:18:21.180 is classic i know a lot of catholics deal with a lot of catholic guilt you know embracing my connection

00:18:26.400 to to nature my earth experience if you will that it is is something beautiful not something to be

00:18:32.560 like hated or resented that life doesn't have to be a struggle all the time or that you have to

00:18:37.660 suffer all the time i think about my ancestors i started thinking about children i'm saying i'm not

00:18:42.860 saying that christians don't but this is for me what it has uh also just kind of focusing on the

00:18:47.600 battle and the like the here and now not always thinking about in the next life or in the next world

00:18:53.080 with jesus or the next you know it's really pulling on my own strength to overcome as opposed to

00:18:59.980 just you know being on my knees and praying for help all the time i'm not saying you can't call

00:19:03.280 out to your ancestors and ask for help you know for deities and spirits but i i feel like i'm pulling

00:19:08.360 more on my own own strength right kind of embracing that saturn energy of hard work and discipline while

00:19:15.900 seeing the magic or trying to see the magic and all the little things along the way everything to me

00:19:21.120 is spiritual it's alive it's in sync but when you're out of it out of that rhythm you can't you can't

00:19:28.680 see or feel it but when you're in that rhythm you're like oh my god this world could be amazing

00:19:32.920 you know yes one of the things that i've noticed about these different traditions if we're comparing

00:19:38.340 the judeo-christian tradition to the quote-unquote pagan tradition is a lot of these pagan philosophers

00:19:44.140 really made a big deal of living pious and having virtue as your guide as the guiding principle it's

00:19:51.020 like you're always trying to attain virtue that is what makes you good that is what the gods will

00:19:56.480 judge you on whereas in christianity one of the things is it's like oh that's all just like extra

00:20:01.760 that's all like none of that's going to do anything for you it's all the grace of god that's going to

00:20:06.080 save you in fact just have faith in jesus and that's all you need and i feel like those two are

00:20:11.920 completely different from each other and they produce different outcomes in the world where if

00:20:16.720 you have a society that's built on virtue and piety and knowing that you'll be judged on those things

00:20:22.760 what's likely going to be the outcome if everyone's trying to do that i think there's going to be

00:20:26.680 better outcomes in that sense um but like uh like like you mentioned the here and now aspect the the uh

00:20:34.880 the the traditions the rituals of of getting together on a monthly basis sometimes twice a month for these

00:20:42.680 ancient pagan festivals all over the european map depending on if you're whether and you're in

00:20:47.740 lithuania or and you're in spain or whatever there's always traditions and they're constantly

00:20:52.280 every month putting together these grand festivals because they're honoring life it's life affirming

00:20:57.960 it's about the here and now it's about community and um and so one of one one of the things you find

00:21:05.680 in homer that homer stresses on this is that this is hearkening back to the ancient indo-european

00:21:11.520 bard spirit i guess you will because he's a homer if whoever homer was he was a bard and he he sang these uh

00:21:19.560 these songs that were epics about achilles and achilles really makes it when he and i guess this

00:21:28.800 is in the second book uh the uh odyssey where odysseus goes down into hades and he sees achilles

00:21:34.840 there and achilles tells him cherish your life with every growing second you don't even know i would

00:21:43.740 rather go back to the world to to be a peasant than to be a a king down here in hades and that

00:21:50.280 now some people look at that and i know plato rejected this idea i think plato was wrong because

00:21:56.080 i think what what homer was trying to say is okay yeah we we are our souls are internal that's fine

00:22:01.480 like we we should look forward to uh going meeting with the gods in the afterlife and what kind of

00:22:06.680 things are going to happen but cherish the here and now like this world was made for you and like

00:22:11.700 for for life and so i think there's something really really deep about that that life affirming

00:22:17.440 aspect of the pagan traditions yes all right so paganism i know we're getting into what it is but

00:22:23.760 kind of like the roots the historical evidence i think this is where people kind of get lost because

00:22:28.880 we're talking about lost ancient literature i know you had a video about this like 98 of ancient

00:22:34.640 ancient texts were destroyed in dark ages so let's talk about this i mean the pagan texts

00:22:39.640 evidence what are they again people want this easy to read you know book that it's all compiled that

00:22:44.700 summarizes all the beliefs and the rules but it's not that simple with paganism or is it right yeah

00:22:50.540 exactly there's no pagan bible maybe there needs to be neil i know maybe someone if you i mean if you

00:22:56.760 if someone actually tried to do that you would end up having a 20 000 page book yeah because how what

00:23:01.920 would you not include you got to put in their homer you got to put in the the icelandic sagas you

00:23:06.840 got to put in there i guess if you did tradition by tradition you know like you did like a greek

00:23:10.620 greek mythology bible by ethnicity or something yeah like you did it by tradition you can you can maybe

00:23:15.800 do it that way um but like like i said there's just so much and there's different traditions and

00:23:21.100 yes there's that indo-european backdrop that they have in common um but there's also they also

00:23:27.300 have differences that we have to be clear on too there's very there's local traditions that have

00:23:31.120 their own local things which is which is great there's nothing like that's awesome i think that's

00:23:35.700 how it should be um but yeah what i would say is is we have what we have i mean obviously archaeologists

00:23:44.000 are are continuing to find more stuff they they dug up the city of herculaneum which is in italy

00:23:49.760 pompeii and they're finding more texts and more scrolls there that from lost texts we haven't found

00:23:54.580 before another big dig was oxyrhynchus in egypt uh nag hamadi was another place where they found a

00:24:00.220 bunch of gnostic stuff so there is there is the idea that you can find old texts that we lost

00:24:05.900 through archaeology but the odds are we're not going to find everything there's going to be texts

00:24:10.300 they're just lost forever so what what we have is what we have and we cut we try to piece together

00:24:14.780 as much as possible and you have the classics like homer you have ovid you have the the playwriters

00:24:20.280 from athens like euripides and you have the the norse tradition as much as as much as possible and

00:24:26.780 um and celt celtics didn't write a lot down but we can piece together a lot of their traditions

00:24:32.380 through inscriptions and stuff like that and you kind of get you got to kind of kind of have to be

00:24:36.480 a scholar and really like research this stuff and try to piece together what was these traditions

00:24:43.240 looking like and how do we revive them in the best way possible and that's just kind of that's kind of

00:24:48.780 the the position we're in today but we're lucky now we're in a position now where everybody has

00:24:54.640 the access to all this data at their fingertips on the internet on an iphone or on a computer

00:25:01.960 whereas a hundred years ago you had to be a scholar to go to a and go to a library know how to read

00:25:08.800 ancient greek and know how to read latin or or whatever to even be on the even be close to getting

00:25:14.560 to any of this stuff you had to like only the very few uh educated elites knew even anything about

00:25:21.220 this stuff but now we're in a position where we can actually look at history and decide for ourselves

00:25:25.580 actually what happened in the dark ages which is the early middle ages i'm not i'm not i don't agree

00:25:32.100 with what happened there i think our ancestors got uh got the short stick and they didn't want to

00:25:38.300 convert to christianity in my from my assessment of the situation not saying that all of them didn't

00:25:42.580 but i think we have a we're in a position now where we can actually reverse what happened and

00:25:48.700 bring back some of these traditions back in our in our modern world yeah yeah definitely i like it and

00:25:54.880 i feel it i feel that revival you know it's like it's it's there it's it wants to come out and it

00:26:00.440 wants to play when i went to greece i went to i went to greece and i was in arcadia there are there

00:26:05.760 there it is it's not coming back it's been back they are in full swing they have actual priesthoods

00:26:13.100 there priestesses and they are doing their uh um festivals every month they are it's there it's not

00:26:21.160 like oh we're working on getting it back no they have it it's back and so it's when i that really got

00:26:28.220 me uh motivated and inspired to sort of follow that you know would you say too that paganism i i

00:26:34.580 would say yes is is a kind of a holistic view of of our world that incorporates a lot of different

00:26:40.940 things from the body to the psychology to spirituality to history right yeah what you just said is like

00:26:49.080 exactly because you're net you're touching on something there's this idea of the nine muses

00:26:54.860 there's there's the the moose talia comedy uh iotope music cleo history calliope which is uh epic

00:27:04.100 poetry of the word urania astronomy astrology and math poly hymnia hymnia which is hymns and prayers

00:27:11.280 erato which is the muse of love and like um you know you feel like desire and love for people that's

00:27:19.060 the muse inspiring you then there's the there are terpsy cory muse which is the muse of the

00:27:24.620 body and strength and work and lifting and work and working and there's nine muses and they all are

00:27:31.540 the basic what they are is they're they're you could i guess in a christian sense they're like angels

00:27:36.540 because they're intermediaries between you and the gods and they deliver inspiration through different

00:27:43.900 ways through the ways i just explained they're through watching a film inspires you reading of reading

00:27:49.920 history inspires you working out inspires you doing astrology inspires you and those are that's how we

00:27:55.680 get inspired to do to do things out in the world and that's that's that's how you get access to what

00:28:00.920 we call the divine or the gods um and so yeah there's different ways of getting inspired there's different

00:28:07.880 ways of of getting to what we call the gods the divine and even just like starting a philosophical

00:28:14.500 um project one of them that comes to mind is the apolloism uh uh richard spencer and some others

00:28:24.340 have put together this philosophical project and it's it's a rational project it's philosophy

00:28:29.820 but it's very similar to what the pythagoreans and the platonist and the aristotelians were doing

00:28:35.800 where they use they use the the gods of our ancestors as the models of how you portray your

00:28:43.580 philosophical project so apollo is this god of form and measure and rationalism and

00:28:48.760 perfection and so you want you're you're aspiring to be like apollo and so that that that's another

00:28:56.660 way of that's another way of paganism if you think about it there's that's a pagan tradition

00:29:00.900 in itself even if it's not lined up with what the ancients were doing even if it's something

00:29:05.560 completely new um it's still paganism because you're still using the traditions of old of the of the old

00:29:11.300 gods yeah yeah definitely i i think that that is probably what inspired pre-christian people

00:29:18.120 specifically european is this whole idea of the muses and beauty and art what are some other things

00:29:25.140 like their pursuit of knowledge what is the the pagan answer to life the afterlife or connection to nature

00:29:32.340 like it's it's all there right so when people say like you said it's holistic it's definitely it's

00:29:38.660 it's a world view in itself it's a way of life it is that's the what the word religio actually means

00:29:45.200 in latin it doesn't just mean like a faith we think of religion as my faith but that's not how

00:29:51.760 the ancients thought of religio religio was your your way of life it is everything that you do on a

00:29:57.120 day-to-day basis it is how you act in the world that is your religion it's not about rules right it's

00:30:02.940 different from like you do this you you go to hell basically right right yeah it's not just dogma it's

00:30:08.540 your actual entire life your way how you are in the world how you act how you treat people that's

00:30:15.280 religion and that's how religion should be you know yeah and it's about also becoming the uber mensch

00:30:22.620 right becoming the best version of yourself that's how i view it um when life is a struggle it's because

00:30:29.060 there's lessons that you need to learn and there's you know shadow sides of yourself that you have to

00:30:33.540 confront and and parts of yourself that you have to work on to you know become and transmutate and

00:30:39.920 change i think that all of that is is paganism would you agree yeah there's this idea that you find in a

00:30:47.340 lot of the poets is the the metamorphosis so ovid has his own book called metamorphosis

00:30:54.220 um apuleius wrote another another book called metamorphosis and what they what it's a it's a

00:31:01.940 genre it's a genre of poetry really if you think about it of characters who go through a sort of a

00:31:08.340 path a pathos or a some sort of suffering and they come out the other side change in some sort of sense

00:31:14.840 a metamorphosis so this is this is the idea of our life itself is going through life suffering

00:31:22.280 growing from it getting to the other side reaching reaching the end of your life with dignity and

00:31:28.560 looking back and being proud of your life being proud of what you give your children past passing

00:31:33.600 on to them that's that's the metamorphosis if you think about it now nature tells us this too you can

00:31:39.920 see nature going through its cycles you can see death and rebirth winter spring the summer the fall

00:31:46.840 it's showing you what you're going to do in your lifetime exactly and you your soul goes through

00:31:52.620 those seasons you go through a dark winter you go through a summer you go through a spring you know

00:31:57.480 and that's why i also love astrology so much i i just it's like it always blows me away once i

00:32:03.760 like i've been really studying my birth chart and things that are happening and i'm just like how is

00:32:08.480 this even possible and how did our ancestors even figured this out yes astrology was also pagan and this

00:32:13.600 was considered a science back in the day i know you did a little segment about that yeah exactly

00:32:18.820 and like it's just um yeah like you mentioned like there's different different ways of getting

00:32:24.640 inspired through these these uh ideas now let's talk about some common shared themes among pagans

00:32:31.440 because you've studied a lot of different branches i know you know there's there's slavics there's

00:32:35.720 norse the you know the graco rome traditions but they're all kind of telling similar themes right

00:32:42.840 as you study comparative mythologies it's the same stories that are wanting to come out and

00:32:48.100 teach us yeah there's going back to uh scholar jp mallory that's very old scholar and uh george's

00:32:58.180 dumidzill and then more recently is um is uh ml west who's you know more more closer to our time i think he

00:33:09.320 just passed away a couple years ago but his work is pretty much up to date where they have put

00:33:14.020 together uh they like what they found in their research as these quote-unquote indo-european

00:33:20.020 traditions have a lot of overlap sometimes there's the tripartite theory of like how they run their

00:33:27.660 government and how they run the religion and then have like the idea like all of them having some sort

00:33:32.440 of sky father who like wields the thunderbolt is a storm god the king of the gods a lot of times

00:33:38.520 there's 12 sort of deities that are that are you know part of this olympian pantheon you'll find

00:33:46.340 an earth mother some sort of offspring who's like chthonic demigod like figure um and there's

00:33:54.700 obviously they're not all identical but you can see the overlap you can see a lot of these traditions

00:34:00.500 have a lot of things in common and so like slavic tradition the god of perun he's the sky father

00:34:07.720 who wields the thunderbolt there's jupiter i'm guessing jupiter is zeus with the eagle and the

00:34:12.880 thunderbolt and like zeus pater dias pater uh um uh thor there's all these different traditions in

00:34:23.260 different places using their own languages are putting together a very similar theology

00:34:28.000 if you will and like it's the indo-european tradition so you could find and like tacitus

00:34:35.120 when tacitus is writing in the second century he starts writing about the germans he's he's he's like

00:34:41.060 wow a lot of these gods or this god reminds me of mercury or or hermes and this god reminds me of

00:34:47.320 jupiter and like even going back even farther herodotus in the greek the classical period he started

00:34:54.100 he's studying the sithians and egyptians and other other cultures and finding a lot of these overlap

00:34:59.580 happening in these different cultures and so yeah there's a there's a lot of overlap between these

00:35:06.400 what we call indo-european or indo-aryan traditions that uh that make their way back all the way back to

00:35:13.900 the stone age believe it or not we could fight like you could see in the bronze age going back to the

00:35:19.480 copper age and then even before that in the late stone age the the neolithic period you can still

00:35:26.160 find a lot of these elements in the archaeological record of some sort of sky father earth mother

00:35:33.440 tradition where you know there's a the pantheon of gods whether there's a war god and then there's

00:35:39.380 a goddess of love and some sort of some sort of uh madness or odin which means woe dennis which

00:35:47.040 means the frenzy god and like dionysus has that same um same uh aspect too or the idea that woden has

00:35:56.780 two rate a ravens i think it is who he sends out that give prophecies apollo also has two ravens that

00:36:04.360 he sends out that give prophecies oh wow so it's it's weird that odin has a odin has within him what

00:36:10.600 nietzsche was getting at the dionysian and apollonian side odin is like the the full figure

00:36:17.280 odin is nietzsche's god if you think about it i don't know if nietzsche meant that or if it's just

00:36:22.480 a coincidence but odin is definitely the god of nietzsche if you think about it well i like him

00:36:28.760 i think he's pretty cool i like nietzsche too yeah he's pretty cool yeah and then it's the question of

00:36:33.660 did some of these people or some of these gods were they actually human at some point is it

00:36:39.700 people that lived amazing lives that became you know kind of deified as archetypes or were they

00:36:45.540 just kind of archetypes in our collective that we've kind of understood of like our heroes i don't know

00:36:50.820 what do you think about that i think there's something i think there's both yeah me too because

00:36:54.240 i think i think with the sky father and the earth mother like we're gonna find that going back to the

00:36:59.160 stone we're gonna find something but then you start getting like maybe gods like hercules

00:37:03.300 there where he's like a demigod figure with a mortal mother and he did things on earth and they

00:37:09.120 describe him going to different places in sythia going to india or going here going there and

00:37:15.200 maybe these things actually have some sort of historical layer to it and then these tales get

00:37:20.900 told over time and they be built up to these traditions that we have today i think one of the

00:37:25.160 biggest common misconceptions about pagans and i want to get this take is i hear people say oh you're

00:37:31.460 an atheist like what are we all we've been talking about gods and goddesses this whole time and higher

00:37:38.380 powers and supernatural and you know they have pantheon of gods and different versions of the

00:37:43.800 afterlife and most people don't know about you know balder and ragnarok and the end times and like all

00:37:49.560 the parallels that you'll also find you know in christian myths what do you think some biggest

00:37:54.920 misconceptions people say that and say you don't even believe these gods are real you just think

00:37:59.600 they're like metaphysical aspects of nature or like psychological aspects or eros being just like

00:38:06.780 this the the metaphysical aspect of desire and love and it's like actually two things can be true at

00:38:13.240 the same time i can think that there are metaphysical aspects that we endure in our lifetimes that are

00:38:19.220 deified and we describe them through poetry and also i can still believe that the gods are real at the

00:38:24.660 same time yes and there can be some truth in between them or some sort of maybe we're we we believe in

00:38:31.700 the gods we we have pistis which is like faith or we imagine these gods and we we get inspired by

00:38:38.540 something and we know what that is we don't have we don't exactly know everything and there's nothing

00:38:43.800 wrong with that and so we we use our imagination and we come up with ideas we get sometimes poets are

00:38:51.120 really good sometimes poets are not really good and then certain poets if they're if they're if

00:38:55.600 their work stands the test of time i think that gives them the credibility of being divinely inspired

00:39:00.760 poets pindar homer whoever um and so that exactly those things can be true at the same time but also

00:39:08.720 what's so what's so ironic about that charge of atheism is we i could say the same thing about you you

00:39:15.720 don't believe in these gods you don't believe in these metaphysical aspects of the sky father and the

00:39:20.380 earth mother you think this is all like comic book stuff to you but the only the funny part is is you

00:39:26.520 only like you're so you're closer to atheism you just have one god instead of many and not only that

00:39:33.160 your your whole entire tradition is based on if you believe in x y and z or not or ours doesn't hinge on

00:39:42.140 that yeah you're not you're not held that gunpoint and saying you don't believe odin did this you're

00:39:47.360 going to have this horrible afterlife you're going to be tortured no one's saying that people are

00:39:51.440 saying be honor your ancestors keep your traditions alive and be good and be virtuous that's it just

00:39:57.280 worry about that and then we'll you'll meet the gods and everything will make sense but what are

00:40:01.980 the rules what are the rules they're like and this is like this is this is like the poisonous thinking

00:40:08.620 that i notice because when you say this to people like that they'll go but wait a minute so what do you

00:40:13.780 believe then what do you think happened in the past i wasn't there so i'm not really it's not like on me

00:40:20.260 to know exactly what happened 2 000 years ago or if x y and z happened exactly as you say it

00:40:26.380 and the fact that you have to believe x y and z or else does that even mean that you believe in it

00:40:32.940 really or are you just kind of just hoping that it's true because you don't want the you want there to

00:40:37.980 be the result at the end which is eternal life like are you is it all contingent on this eternal

00:40:43.860 life thing or are you doing it because you just because you want to do it like does that make sense

00:40:49.520 yes absolutely yeah it's very spiritual to me all the things that we're talking about for me even

00:40:55.860 reading ancient philosophy yeah it could be like you said divinely inspired god the gods can speak

00:41:02.620 through literature through art through music through nature that that is the essence i think

00:41:08.960 of paganism that you can find god in all kinds of things all around you right god is alive and god is

00:41:15.680 in everything i mean i remember one of the i want to get your take to like the first book that you

00:41:20.600 remember or uh the philosopher that you read that really impacted you but i was 19 years old

00:41:25.800 and i was reading plato's allegory of the cave i have a minor in philosophy and i always love

00:41:30.700 philosophy and uh remember this remember the story about how the prisoners were in the cave and they

00:41:37.180 saw these flickering shadows that were projected on the wall and they thought that was their only

00:41:41.780 reality right because they never saw anything else and then one guy actually escapes he goes outside

00:41:47.320 and it's so bright from the sun that he's like blinded like oh my god so he runs back in the cave he

00:41:53.380 doesn't understand to let his eyes adjust adjust so he can see like reality out there so then he goes back

00:41:58.980 into the cave and everyone's like see you'll go blind and then you know they make a law that no one

00:42:03.060 can ever leave the cave again and they have to be prisoners and see these you know puppet projections

00:42:07.000 on the wall of what's outside and i thought that that was just so profound and it struck me on such

00:42:12.340 a deep level i could like feel my consciousness expanding like something clicked in me when i read

00:42:18.200 that i was like what am i missing what am i seeing that is just like the shadows on the walls

00:42:23.700 of you know some you know warden who's like telling me that this is real like i want to get outside that

00:42:29.900 cave and i want to see what's out there i don't want to see these shadows anymore and then i was

00:42:34.940 hooked after that and it's like i didn't even think of that in terms of paganism but this this was you

00:42:40.200 know pagan writing right yeah exactly and plato's this allegory is getting at what i think is like

00:42:48.220 kind of the idea of gnosis is attaining a level of knowledge that's beyond just like what plato would

00:42:54.700 call episteme and episteme is just like it's just like a dialectic knowledge of like one plus one is

00:43:01.260 two type of thing whereas gnosis is and this is no plato doesn't talk about gnosis this gets developed

00:43:07.880 by later platonists and and even christian gnostics uh but this idea of of into intuitive knowledge

00:43:16.560 divine knowledge that's beyond going beyond what everyone is just the the the um the met the um

00:43:23.540 the natural uh world that we're in and going beyond to this like deeper level of knowledge and get

00:43:30.660 escaping the matrix if you will if you think about it like that um and like it i actually think there's

00:43:36.900 like a proto-scientific method within gnosis where you start off with imagination and then it turns into

00:43:44.100 a belief and then you test out your beliefs with reasoning dianoia and then through that reasoning

00:43:50.720 you reach what that what's called uh noasis which is intellectual intuition of the forms it's like

00:43:57.280 perfect knowledge and so i think that's what that's why the later platonists are using plato to develop

00:44:05.400 this idea called gnosis but it's i think it ultimately stems back from escaping the cave and getting out of

00:44:12.700 what we are what we think is the truth what we're told is the truth but it might not actually be the

00:44:19.560 truth you know what i mean and i'm open to always the next level of that like i don't trap myself it's

00:44:26.060 not that i'm so stupid i let my brain fall out but it's like you know i'm just open to knowing that i

00:44:31.420 don't know everything for sure and i am okay with that you know i i can control the things that i can

00:44:37.620 control which is my immediate life and who i am and i'm trying to you know i have my truth seeking

00:44:43.180 journey and i'm trying to figure things out but uh ultimately it's a it's a very you know intimate

00:44:48.000 personal experience paganism i think i mean you have the collective experience and your internal

00:44:53.500 experience right and that's why socrates is the central jesus-like figure of platonism if you think

00:45:00.200 about it he's the main character of all plato's uh dialogues because he is the one going about life

00:45:06.780 with the socratic method questioning everything debating everything there's always another stone

00:45:12.780 to unturn that's that's really the idea of like having a outlook on on the world where you're trying

00:45:21.220 to constantly build on what you know and constantly challenge yourself that idea i think platonism

00:45:27.320 definitely uh brings that to to the fold it's like this idea of constantly uh challenging and no

00:45:35.760 like you said i don't know everything and i never will and as soon as you admit that it's like all

00:45:40.660 right now you have room to room to actually be humble and learn things exactly as we're talking about

00:45:47.560 this and and like socrates right always questioning i just think of oh my gosh this is such the the

00:45:53.660 european mind you know the white man's mind you know that is why he is the builder of western

00:46:00.840 civilization so i want to get your take also on some of the most influential you know pre-christian

00:46:06.100 thinkers whose ideas have become you know really foundational building blocks of western civilization

00:46:11.300 yeah obviously we just touched on plato and socrates um who are building off of pythagoras and

00:46:18.500 phales and anaxagoras and anaximenes these pre-socratic thinkers parmenides heraclitus

00:46:25.580 and pedocles and they they're all if you read like a really good introduction to these figures believe

00:46:31.640 it or not is nietzsche nietzsche's first book um what is it called it's uh the uh it's called the um

00:46:39.680 greek philosophy in the tragic age um that book and so he really lays out these different

00:46:48.180 thinkers and what they the he i think nietzsche admired that the the athenian world where there

00:46:54.820 was there wasn't just one dogma that everyone believed in there was competing ideas of thinkers

00:46:59.860 some people thought all life came from water some people thought it all came from fire two opposite

00:47:05.020 things and they both kind of coexisted in this in this uh athenian world and then plato sort of uh

00:47:11.460 takes all these ideas and and systematize system puts them into a system i should say and um that's

00:47:20.500 the book right there philosophy the tragic age of the greeks amazing book but what i'm but then you

00:47:25.280 start to get aristotle aristotle after plato starts to put together what what we know as deductive and

00:47:33.160 inductive reasoning and this is like the what you mentioned this becomes the basis of western thought

00:47:39.760 and actually people will credit christianity for the scientific method i've heard so many like

00:47:46.560 pseudo scholars say this on especially twitter uh recently what was the one guy i'm trying to think

00:47:51.980 of his name um i forgot his name anyways who cares he said he was like yeah without without christianity

00:47:58.040 we wouldn't have the scientific method bacon was a christian okay well let's let's pull up francis

00:48:04.260 bacon what does he say about the scientific method oh it turns out he literally credits aristotle for

00:48:11.360 the scientific method he says that the basis of the scientific method is the inductive and deductive

00:48:17.520 reasoning of aristotle's logic that's how you get the scientific method so it's actually pagans that

00:48:23.660 give us a scientific method and what happened was people just weren't building off of

00:48:27.860 aristotle until after the renaissance and the enlightenment for some reason and so yeah i think

00:48:35.860 there's i think the pagans were already giving us that sort of rational mind at the same time not

00:48:43.240 being too overly rational but also having the traditions alive and having the the metaphysics

00:48:49.500 alive and all that stuff but but they were they were already getting there and then you this is why

00:48:55.160 people put together this idea of the dark ages because it's like wait a minute you already have

00:49:00.440 inductive and deductive reasoning you already have um you already have thinkers like uh archimedes i'm

00:49:06.680 gonna have to look and i have his book over there archimedes if you read his stuff it's all this

00:49:10.560 mathematics and inventions of like screws and and how to like how to like uh build stuff that can like

00:49:20.160 push water through pipes and stuff like that this is all in ancient greece and then all and then it's

00:49:25.080 like they rediscover all this stuff in the 16th century they didn't come they didn't like invent

00:49:31.780 this out of thin air they had to go back to the pagans they had to go back to archimedes they had to go

00:49:38.060 back to vitervius as the latin the latin writer who davinci vitervius man yeah that's a yeah vitervius man

00:49:44.420 these are all pagans and so the pagans are the ones who gave us all this rational thinking of the

00:49:49.880 western mind as you put it that's the that's paganism that's what paganism was i think you said

00:49:55.520 too is it justin martyr i don't know who that is but believe that early philosophers were divinely

00:50:00.280 inspired right yep even just the christians even believe that yeah yeah justin martyr was one of

00:50:05.940 these early christians from the second century who credited the greek the greek philosophers as being

00:50:12.560 a part of their tradition and having plato and aristotle and those guys being divinely inspired

00:50:18.280 and this idea of the logos who we they they know it's christ christ is the logos incarnate

00:50:23.840 but they they they were they were inspired by god to foresee what this idea of the logos will be

00:50:31.960 and if it wasn't for the greeks if we only had the the the prophets of judaism we might not know about

00:50:37.900 the logos so john john the gospel of john actually has two different traditions you have the jewish

00:50:45.060 prophets and then you have the greek philosophers kind of feeding into john the johannine theology if

00:50:50.740 you will which i get it from a christian perspective let's get into that a little bit you've used the

00:50:55.220 term early pagan christians you know who were gnostics right can you explain i know you said in a video

00:51:01.180 christianity owes paganism right the trinity came from platonism logos obviously just mentioned the word

00:51:07.540 uh tell us more about that yeah so i mean you can see them running side by side with each other

00:51:13.480 is in in pagan in platonism which is where the pagans are being um being i guess the word would be like

00:51:22.500 not inspired by but informed by so the pagan writers of the second third and fourth century

00:51:29.280 um yamblichus porphyry uh who else um

00:51:35.780 proclis some of these guys uh platonus you know the neoplatonist and even the middle platonist like

00:51:43.560 plutarch and and some of these other guys they are being informed by the philosophical thinkers of

00:51:49.960 platonism and stuff like that but they're also putting together pagan stuff stories and and they're

00:51:55.500 they're writing new like myths and all this stuff and new poetry knownness as a fifth century poet

00:52:01.480 pagan poet apparently he converted to christianity but i have my doubts about that anyways um they are

00:52:08.180 developing these ideas of god being triune and having three hypostasis which is the one which is

00:52:16.200 and essentially christians would call god the father but they call it the one perfect eternal god

00:52:22.580 who um from himself creates the logos the word and or plato would call the world soul and then there's

00:52:32.980 an intermediary spirit in between them which christians called literally called the holy spirit

00:52:39.220 and uh and if there's different words for it by different platonist writers um i think proclis

00:52:45.420 calls it zoe life the spirit of life or sophia or stuff like that so you could see christianity

00:52:52.560 is being informed by the philosophical traditions of the time period and uh not only not only that not

00:52:59.860 even just from the philosophical aspects from the mythological aspects in in the gospels for example

00:53:06.560 there are clear mimesis happening in the store in john's gospel for example where you have

00:53:13.300 jesus uh you know turning water into wine and happening on according to the orthodox church

00:53:19.200 on january 6th which was the day of his epiphany so on the 30th year of his life on the day of his

00:53:26.880 epiphany when he was when he came into the world according to john's tradition he turned water into

00:53:34.080 wine on that day well it turns out that in the in pliny the elder which is a first century text

00:53:39.680 pliny the elder and in a previous first century bc text from diodorus of sicily there's two different

00:53:47.080 stories about dionysus having an epiphany uses the same exact word in greek epiphany on january on

00:53:55.560 the night of january 5th going into heading into january 6th where water from a stream of river and

00:54:02.840 there's two different sources one of them says streams of river would turn into wine on that night

00:54:08.020 it was it was the gifts gifts of god they called it theodosia which is funny because you have the

00:54:13.500 emperor called theodosius same name and everything and then another source says that there was a

00:54:19.100 temple in ellis which is in arcadia in greece where there was six jars of water that would the

00:54:26.200 priests would convert into wine by setting them up in the temple of dionysus and leaving coming back

00:54:32.020 24 hours later it'd be wine it was a miracle same day the same day as christianity um and then you

00:54:38.980 have other aspects of the mimesis happening in john or or other gospels where um like for example that

00:54:46.360 the two women weeping at the tomb of jesus is analogous to a lot of pagan stories of the death

00:54:52.580 death of adonis where he's being weeped weeped over by aphrodite and persephone or in the assyrian

00:54:59.700 tradition where you have nephthys and isis weeping at the tomb of osiris very specific two women

00:55:07.100 weeping at the tomb and then um and then sometimes a three-day uh resurrection in the case of adis

00:55:13.880 adis had a resurrection festival in rome in the first through fifth century first through fourth

00:55:21.260 century a.d where right at march 15th they were there was priest of the god adis who would bring in

00:55:29.240 an effigy of the god bury uh tied him to a tree a pine tree bury him bury him into the ground on march

00:55:36.520 22nd and on march 25th three days later they would for those three days they would mourn

00:55:43.620 and ritually mourn and could go into like a whole entire frenzy basically according to these sources

00:55:48.820 and then on the third day they would rejoice and this is according to this is according to christian

00:55:54.340 sources the the priests would come out and say rejoice our god is saved and through his sufferings

00:56:02.340 we are saved too this is the god adis yeah that was that was a new one to me i i just saw a video

00:56:08.540 one of your videos on that yeah and he said that this happened in uh egypt for osiris you have

00:56:14.560 epiphanius another saint from the fourth century who talks about other gods dusaris ion and uh i forgot the

00:56:23.200 other god's name but he says there's three gods in three different cities who on january 6th or december

00:56:29.820 25th had virgin births and the uh it would say like on the hour at this time the quarry or the virgin

00:56:37.720 gave birth to ion and epiphanius is saying well we're starting to celebrate this december 25th thing

00:56:44.840 because it's in the fourth century and he literally says this word for word he says but the pagans have

00:56:49.540 always been doing this on december 25th they have these traditions and we're gonna do it again here

00:56:54.080 real soon yeah yeah so it's this is this is what's so funny to me is this is the christians

00:57:00.300 telling on themselves they're telling us this justin marty you mentioned in the second century

00:57:06.420 tells us he goes uh he writes a letter to um one of these other pagans and he says why do you guys hate

00:57:13.960 us so much it's like we're just like you guys you guys believe in jupiter well we believe in christ

00:57:19.220 and you guys believe that dionysus was torn apart by manids and resurrected well we believe that jesus

00:57:24.860 was crucified and resurrected and you guys think that the god perseus was born of a virgin well jesus

00:57:29.700 was born of a virgin you guys think that story he goes on he goes on and he names like five different

00:57:34.540 gods that he compares them to the to the gospel and so that's the christians telling on themselves but

00:57:41.220 then we find out through the heresiologist which is irenaeus hippolytus epiphanius and justin martyr

00:57:48.700 those four particular sources that we have where they talk about actual christians who they call

00:57:54.540 gnostics we don't know if they actually call themselves that but we know that they had different

00:57:59.500 names one of them is the nascenes or nascenes which means like serpent people they're also called

00:58:05.020 ophites in greek and they had this completely crazy theology it's basically pagan christianity

00:58:12.600 and they have like hymns to christ where they call him they this is how the hymn goes i'm

00:58:18.680 going to sum it up for you he says in egypt they call you osiris in um in arcadia they call you

00:58:28.040 bacchus in i think he says in syria they call you adonis in this place they call you and he starts

00:58:34.580 going on he starts naming off gods and then he says but you are the christ so he's doing like a a

00:58:41.640 a synchronistic hymn that originally was we found out that originally was called the homeric hymn to

00:58:47.960 addis but he repurposed this it's a guy called the nascene preacher by the way he's a he's it's

00:58:53.800 this is heresy according to the church so i'm just to be up up front the church is talking about this as

00:58:59.480 if it's heresy fine but still they're telling us that there were christians in the second century

00:59:05.640 who believed that all these pagan traditions were part of the christian tradition yeah well they

00:59:10.920 would have to in order i mean i think that process would be a long time as people convert and a lot

00:59:17.000 of those ideas would be absorbed into christianity obviously like a lot of the holidays and the

00:59:21.800 traditions and even in a slavic culture they'll talk about took 200 years there was that parallel

00:59:27.880 religion right that russian orthodox religion absorbed a lot of the old pagan traditions it was the

00:59:33.320 dual face for like 200 years so this brings me to the big question then you mentioned osiris here

00:59:38.600 dionysus you know a lot of people point out the parallels with jesus so did he exist or is he just

00:59:44.440 part of the resurrection you know savior gods that are influenced by pagan thoughts i would not be surprised

00:59:52.920 if he did not exist i think where the evidence stands now it's not good we don't have what's it's not

00:59:59.800 less like a lot of a lot of scholars for some reason just assume he existed they don't really

01:00:06.040 none of them really poke into this question they used to scholars hundreds a couple hundred years ago

01:00:12.520 um the same the same um scholar who wrote the book the jewish question was a mythicist who didn't think

01:00:20.360 jesus existed and he thought that the story of christ was based on the egyptian god serapis he thought

01:00:28.120 thought there was some sort of syncretism going on with um he he basically says like if you read philo

01:00:33.720 of alexandria and you take his theology and you sort of a sort of draw from little aspects of serapis

01:00:41.240 which is already a synchronistic god i don't know if you know about serapis he's basically osiris

01:00:45.960 dionysus and um pluto kind of rolled into one he's like this underworld egyptian god greco-egyptian god

01:00:54.120 i would say and so uh he thought this was like the the pre-christian god that inspires what became

01:01:03.400 christianity eventually scholars for some reason around 1950 i don't know the last second the second

01:01:11.960 half of the 20th century start rejecting mythicism it's like off the table you can't be a mythicist and

01:01:18.520 scholar you're not taken seriously anymore and i don't know why to be honest i think mythicism

01:01:23.480 mythicism could be true i but i also i wouldn't be surprised if there really was a guy named jesus

01:01:28.680 either i don't like to me it's not like one has to be true or the other one i think it could go either

01:01:33.960 way i'm it's a coin flip to me but the the physical evidence he didn't write anything down not only that

01:01:40.600 we have a an author named philo judaeus philo the jew who lived from 20 bc to around 50 a.d so he's he's

01:01:51.160 30 20 years old when jesus was born and he lives 20 years after jesus dies and this guy writes hundreds

01:01:59.000 of pages that we hit we still have preserved to this day he knows all about he knows all about

01:02:04.600 israel he knows all about syria he mentions pontius pilate he mentions the governors of judea and

01:02:11.160 samaria and he mentions the governors of galilee he mentions all these things that are happening the

01:02:16.600 political situation in alexandria and israel and he never mentions jesus and you go hmm now this is a

01:02:25.240 guy who's jewish writing in greek and his theology is very much like christianity christian theology he

01:02:33.400 believes in this idea of the logos being the son of god the firstborn son of god who uh you know his

01:02:40.760 cup he even says like his cup will bring salvation when people drink from his cup they'll be saved he

01:02:47.400 has all this stuff that lines up a christian theology but he doesn't know who jesus is now this doesn't

01:02:53.640 mean this would be an argument from silence this is kind of a if you use this to prove these didn't exist

01:02:59.400 that's kind of fallacious but at a very the very least it tells us that these miracles and all this

01:03:06.440 stuff probably didn't happen if philo doesn't know about it philo knows all about pontius pilate as i

01:03:11.800 mentioned he's all all up in the the whole political situation what's going on all the way in israel and

01:03:17.160 egypt never mentioned jesus once like i said he lives till 50 a.d so that means you had two decades

01:03:24.840 of this stories to marinate and spread around and for him to to not know who jesus is to me that's like

01:03:32.680 a really big red flag and it's not till decades after philo where you start getting the gospels

01:03:38.920 you start getting like josephus and all this other stuff so the idea that jesus existed or not i don't

01:03:44.760 know i mean i i lean towards there was a guy just because i don't see a lot of i don't see a lot of

01:03:51.400 pushback from from people that say he didn't exist i only see people just kind of accept that he did that

01:03:59.800 doesn't mean that that doesn't mean he did either though what i'm saying is kind of a sacred cow you

01:04:04.280 know so that's why people don't yeah the evidence where it is is not good for his existence it's also

01:04:10.280 not like the worst in the world either it's like he could have existed and all this stuff could be

01:04:15.560 applied to him i mean at the end of the day isn't it the stories that matter the most the messages that

01:04:20.760 are being conveyed yeah isn't that what we should gleam from these things exactly but the mythicists are

01:04:26.360 correct when they point out that most of what you get in the gospels are are narratives that you can

01:04:35.000 draw from the old testament and they're reading applying these old testament motifs to jesus so the

01:04:42.120 suffering massage the suffering motif in isaiah 53 it's applied to jesus um the idea of isaac the only

01:04:50.680 begotten son carrying his wood to his sacrifice or abraham's sacrifice is his only begotten son that

01:04:58.120 is a picture of what happens in the new testament with jesus being the only begotten son of god

01:05:03.640 carrying his own cross to his own death you even have the trial of jesus is is a mimesis of the old

01:05:10.440 testament whereas barabbas gets brought out barabbas is very sinful and jesus is brought out he's not

01:05:17.960 sinful and they let barabbas go and they sacrifice jesus well i don't know if you know this that's

01:05:24.680 yom kippur yom kippur which is in leviticus 16 leviticus 16 says you bring out a scapegoat

01:05:32.760 and a unblemished goat you have two goats one of them gets sacrificed the unblemished goat

01:05:40.040 gets sacrificed and then the the scapegoat gets let go out of the let he let it free into the

01:05:46.760 wilderness so barabbas is the scapegoat and jesus is this is the unblemished sin uh the sin offering

01:05:55.960 if you will so are you gonna sit there and tell me that that actually happened where people unknowingly

01:06:02.920 took part in this ritual that has that just happens to mimic leviticus 16 it didn't happen

01:06:09.560 and turn turns out when we scour through these texts of ancient israel this particular idea of

01:06:17.240 of pontius pilot coming out and giving me here this is i'm gonna give you barabbas or jesus you

01:06:23.160 guys get to pick that never happened we have zero evidence of that so this is obviously a made-up

01:06:28.280 narrative so i guess the point i'm trying to make is um the mythicists are correct when they say all

01:06:35.080 the stuff in the gospels are all just kind of applied to jesus even if there was a guy the stories are

01:06:41.880 not historical so it's like i guess whether he existed or not is pointless yeah exactly no yeah and

01:06:50.840 what's interesting is you know you hear all the different ideas of jesus being what he's being

01:06:54.840 symbolic of and possible solar mythology and pagan bleed over but then when does he become jewish was

01:07:02.280 he always jewish with the you know early pagan christian gnostics is christianity really jewish

01:07:08.520 is it is it a fusion of this like pagan christian judaism like what about all the semitic aspects

01:07:15.320 right that's all the jews involved yeah that's that's where that's where philo comes in to me because

01:07:20.760 philo is jewish to the core he's uh he writes about moses and abraham and the torah but he's also

01:07:28.280 adopting greek mythology and platonism and and pythagoreanism and stoicism and what happened in

01:07:35.560 the hellenistic period is jews start to heavily adopt greek philosophy and greek greek theology and and

01:07:43.800 and um some of the aspects you find hellenism is such a big deal that it's it spreads like wildfire

01:07:51.320 and even though you can read books like maccabees where it talks about how the jews resisted hellenism

01:07:57.080 and they they pushed out antiochus the fourth it's like yeah that's just that's yeah fine you had that

01:08:03.240 story but really think what think about the the names of the maccabeans jason maccabees jason is a greek

01:08:10.360 name um the the the uh the kings of israel that that that from the hasmonean period their names

01:08:18.360 are all greek solomne uh um antiochus i'm sorry uh aristobulus aristobulus is one of the kings of

01:08:28.280 the hasmoneans these are they're all adopting greek names they dress like creeks they all they they make

01:08:34.520 up these kind of bullshit subversive lies saying that plato was inspired by moses i can i can point

01:08:41.480 to like five different primary sources from the hellenistic period of jewish authors claiming

01:08:48.120 that orpheus was actually a student of moses and they're they're making up all this mythology trying

01:08:55.720 to subvert the greek tradition into judaism so but really what's happening is it's the other way

01:09:04.360 around yes judaism is being so as being adopt is adopting greek because greek greek ideals were so

01:09:11.000 great everyone was like wow the hellenism is pretty awesome everyone wanted to be hellenistic it was

01:09:16.040 just like the it's like americanism today or or not even just americanism just like in the good old

01:09:20.760 days the western the western tradition you go to i was in i was in egypt i traveled i went to egypt

01:09:27.160 i went to greece i was all over the place they listen to american music they watch american movies over

01:09:32.440 there too bad yeah that's like hellenism though like that's that's like they just want our they

01:09:37.080 love our culture that's just the way it is europeans after all that's how you that's how hellenism was

01:09:41.720 hell the hellenism was like the ancient american uh you know culture if you think to compare it that way

01:09:49.800 by the way you mentioned the the maccabees and uh today is the first day of hanukkah yes

01:09:54.280 yes yes and and and it totally happened the you know well more celebrating they celebrate the

01:10:00.120 slaughter of the greeks right that's what this celebration celebrated it too yeah jesus yeah it's

01:10:04.920 in john's gospel yeah john's gospel mentions the festival of lights which is which is hanukkah jesus

01:10:10.520 actually celebrates hanukkah in the gospel of john so for those for those christian identity

01:10:16.520 people out there uh yeah you said jesus was celebrating the death of the greeks ah yeah

01:10:24.040 yep this is not good so let's talk about the importance of you know taking knowledge from

01:10:29.720 allegory you know jesus walking on water or thor and the lightning you know symbolism of like

01:10:36.600 deeper ideas moral qualities spiritual truths some philosophical concepts i mean this is

01:10:42.600 you see this right in your all your research and all the books and what all the myths and all the

01:10:46.760 religions are saying is this what people should really be focusing on the morals of the story

01:10:53.720 yeah and i think i think that's what these that's what these like poets and bards and philosophers when

01:11:03.080 and orators what they were trying to pass down was this tradition of virtue of piety of of

01:11:11.960 goodwill to your fellow kin uh you know that's what that's what this is it's that it's like we

01:11:18.600 mentioned earlier it's it's you're building a lifestyle a way of life a religion based on what

01:11:24.680 was passed down to you by your tradition that's kind of the name of the game is you're passing down

01:11:29.640 a tradition and you're keeping it sacred that's the whole purpose of keeping the light of vesta the fire

01:11:35.960 of vesta in rome was lit for a thousand years and they always kept they kept the fire they didn't

01:11:43.240 they never let it go out until theodosius decree and even the zoroastrians did this zoroastrians are

01:11:51.000 indo-aryans who from persia they had this fire tradition too and even to this day there's parts of persia

01:11:57.640 where they have fires lit from the sassanian period for a thousand years still lit right now

01:12:04.120 yeah you mentioned zoastrianism uh i think you talked about this in one of your videos but a lot

01:12:08.600 of the ancient myths in that influence genesis actually come from zoroastrianism right all the

01:12:14.200 afterlife and everything so like it's it's a lot of ripped off stuff with a jewish veneer on top of it

01:12:21.400 yes and that's another thing is when we we found we so there's a city of an elephantine in egypt

01:12:28.280 where they had a temple of yahweh and archaeologists dug this place up in the 1900s

01:12:34.520 and they found there was a papyri found at this temple where the priest is ordered to perform a yasna

01:12:43.640 and um there's a fire holder called um i forgot the name of the word the word that's used though

01:12:53.160 is um i forgot the name of the word but i'll think of it in a second but there's that that's

01:12:59.400 you're pointing you're showing it right now the fire holder those that was in the temple of yahweh

01:13:03.720 in egypt in the in the six early sixth century bce a forgone you is that right i forgot uh it's

01:13:11.560 called something i forgot what it's called right now atash don oh okay and so it's called atash

01:13:18.360 don and it basically means fire holder but it's like someone might say so what it's the jewish

01:13:23.880 fire holder well no that word atash don which is written on this inscription is a indo-european

01:13:31.240 word found in iranian persian language that's not semitic it's not part of the hebrew vocabulary

01:13:39.880 which means they which is this is like smoking gun evidence that the jews in the sixth century bce

01:13:47.240 were adopting persian culture for their own religious purposes they were literally using

01:13:53.720 the word they were using this word to describe the fire they could have used their own word yeah they

01:13:59.440 could have they could have used their own hebrew word to describe it but they didn't they called

01:14:03.360 it atash don which is a persian word and they borrowed a word from the persians to describe their

01:14:09.040 fire holder which is a smoking gun that this tradition that they have was adopting elements of indo-iranian

01:14:16.080 culture yeah and by the way you said there's no evidence for abraham right yeah in this very location

01:14:22.640 this same place where so up until the 20th century we didn't know anything we we just want the bible

01:14:29.760 just says abraham moses existed and we have no corroborating sources none of the greek sources

01:14:38.000 mention abraham herodotus never mentions abraham homer all the ancient greek sources they don't start

01:14:44.080 mentioning um jewish anything related to moses or the torah until after right around 300 bc

01:14:50.880 so for the first greek source to mention anything about moses or abraham is hecateus of abdera who

01:14:57.040 lived right around 300 bc he was in he was in alexandria now before that we didn't know anything

01:15:03.600 about there was no sources from egyptian from hittite from babylonian from from canaanite nothing that

01:15:12.560 mentions abraham or moses but the and the and the response to that criticism the people were called

01:15:18.880 minimalists they're like where's the evidence and the maximalists were saying well we don't have any

01:15:24.800 we don't have any texts from jewish people so really we have nothing to go off at all so you can't really

01:15:29.520 criticize that we have no evidence and that's how it was for 2 000 years that was the discussion then

01:15:35.040 they find this city called elephantine in the 20th century they dig it up and they find hundreds maybe a

01:15:42.960 thousand pieces of papyri inscriptions steles stones whatever of aramaic which is what the jews

01:15:52.080 were writing with that's that's that was like their common language like you know italian is the

01:15:56.800 common language and latin is the is for like the church well that's how the jews were hebrew was a

01:16:02.320 liturgical language but everyone else used aramaic well so we have all this aramaic text from elephantine

01:16:09.120 and we're finally scholars are going here we go we're going to learn about moses and abraham and

01:16:14.880 mo and and noah and we're gonna learn about jacob we're gonna learn about the 12 tribes of israel and

01:16:19.840 david and solomon and we here we go we finally cracked open we found the jackpot hundreds of papyri

01:16:27.040 and guess what they found so this is a i should point this out this is a perfect time capsule so what we

01:16:33.280 know is before i say what was in there when the jews got conquered by the babylonians and the assyrians

01:16:39.760 in 586 bce they fled down to that city in elephantine so this is a perfect time capsule

01:16:46.800 from 586 to 400 bc almost a 200 year period we know that they weren't not in elephantine before 586

01:16:57.360 so none of this can be attributed to before 586 and none of it can be attributed to after 400

01:17:04.320 so we have a perfect time capsule this is the best way to test out the scientific method

01:17:09.360 of like what do we know about israel without any outside influence we finally we dug these up

01:17:14.880 no one has touched these papyri and guess what no mention of abraham no mention of moses no mention of

01:17:22.720 the torah no mention of the 12 tribes no mention of jacob no mention of noah no mention of isaac

01:17:29.840 no mention of ishmael nothing nothing from the bible nothing so wait a minute this is supposed to be

01:17:37.840 after the second or after the first temple fell this is supposed to be after moses this is supposed

01:17:43.520 to be after abraham this is supposed to be after adam and eve and after noah and after jacob in the 12

01:17:49.280 tribes this is supposed to be after isaiah supposed to be after not all the prophets but

01:17:54.640 most of the prophets i mean there's some prophets after this time period nehemiah and and and ezra

01:18:01.240 are after this time but we should have the majority of the knowledge of the israelites should be in

01:18:07.400 this collection of papyri nothing so what that tells me and a lot of other scholars who pointed

01:18:14.660 this out that a lot of this shit was made up later and just backdated that they just started writing

01:18:21.220 they just started writing their own national history and they backdated all this stuff and

01:18:25.860 none of this existed before the 400s bc yeah i view it like fairy tales exactly a lot of it it's these

01:18:34.800 are uh jewish fairy tales it's their own pagan mythologies really if you think about it

01:18:40.620 it's it's jewish uh pagan mythology but now they're trying to now they're trying to rope

01:18:46.160 everyone else into it but it's like that's not there's nothing wrong with that on its surface

01:18:50.180 and i think people should have their own traditions but don't try to graft the whole world into your

01:18:55.600 tradition exactly i have a i'm a different person you have your tradition i have mine yeah we don't

01:19:01.340 want every we don't want everyone to convert to odin or zeus or exactly exactly you should be

01:19:07.400 exclusive like that yeah yeah exactly exclusive i almost said inclusive no you should be exclusive

01:19:12.520 you should be this is our tradition from my ancestors and this supposed to be for us

01:19:18.580 so then how do you view christmas how do we view christmas we're coming up you know the various gods

01:19:23.420 you had a video about this okay a lot of gods that were born on december 25th by a virgin surrounded

01:19:29.500 by magi uh horus dionysus addis mithra there were others so is this well not not all of them have

01:19:37.240 that particular mythology horus is one of them that does have um it's in plutarch where he says

01:19:45.300 harpocrates which means horus the child in greek was born at the winter solstice by isis and by the

01:19:52.140 way isis in other sources is called virgin parthenos so you can put that together virgin mary there's a

01:19:58.760 virgin birth of horus at the winter solstice by the way winter someone say so what winter solstice

01:20:04.060 that's december 23rd or december 21st no not when that was written when when plutarch wrote that text

01:20:09.920 the julian calendar was in use and the the julian calendar um winter solstice was december 25th

01:20:17.520 so according to that source horus was born on december 25th now um the other ones that are mentioned are

01:20:23.640 ion dosaris and then dionysus has the january 6th one which is like the epiphany but it's pretty close

01:20:31.060 it's in that window yeah there's there's quite a few of these yeah and then you have sol invictus

01:20:35.900 who's who also is born at the winter solstice in a later in later um third century 274 ad for sure

01:20:44.560 we know they dedicated temple to the god on that day there's some there's some scholars who think

01:20:49.940 mithras is born on december 25th through sort of educated conjecture they can put together the

01:20:55.320 different reasons why they think that and there's that's fine too the point i'm saying is yes there are

01:20:59.600 there are gods born at the winter solstice and then there's another source from uh called

01:21:04.820 saturnalia by um by macrobius where he says dionysus and apollo are the same god who are born at the

01:21:13.800 winter solstice so there's another one so yes there is this idea of these gods being born with their

01:21:18.800 solstice and then on top of that you have the traditions of saturnalia of gift giving of of

01:21:26.900 shutting down the businesses of decorating with greenery and norse and norse traditions i know

01:21:32.400 he's even stronger yeah oh yeah yule is still going today yes bringing in the trees in the house

01:21:38.160 all that stuff bringing in the mistletoe and santa being the shaman who eats the amanita mushroom

01:21:44.160 that grows like a gift under the tree and then he has this shamanic experience and hence the flying

01:21:49.040 reindeer you know there's some fun allegory there and then under underneath evergreen trees

01:21:53.220 is what grows as there's a symbiotic relationship between anamita muscaria mushrooms and evergreen

01:21:59.320 trees that so you tend to find in the northern wilderness if you're if you're out in the mountains

01:22:04.400 over there you'll see underneath evergreen trees you'll see uh those red and white mushrooms growing

01:22:10.200 so there there's some something going on with that too yeah for sure point i'm trying to get at is

01:22:15.820 this this what we call christmas is already pretty much um the remnant of the ancient pagan

01:22:22.220 traditions that have been passed down and this is the kicker gregory the fifth called gregory

01:22:28.380 the great he's the pope he's the pope in the sixth century 500s he writes a letter to the bishop in

01:22:36.560 london and he says to the bishop in london when i when you guys encounter pagan temples do not destroy

01:22:45.000 the pagan temples in fact or he said or sacred groves too so this is like trees mountains he said

01:22:53.060 when you encounter these sacred groves and sacred temples do not destroy them i'll tell you what you

01:22:58.620 got to do go in there sprinkle holy water on it remove the idol he calls it a demon remove the demon

01:23:05.140 which is the god you know that's what gods are diamond so it's technically he's correct

01:23:10.320 diamond means god in greek he said remove the diamond sprinkle it with holy water put a cross in there

01:23:16.720 and then let the pagans keep doing their traditions and you can see this happens with christmas you can

01:23:23.220 see at um at saw wine the saw wine tradition where they have they take all saints day they move it on to

01:23:30.620 november 1st and they christianize what was already known to be the saw wine tradition this is the

01:23:37.180 christian playbook this is what pope gregory tells the bishop in london to do he literally tells him to

01:23:43.000 do this but you can actually trace this back to paul in corinthians paul makes it very clear

01:23:48.720 he's writing a letter to the corinthians he says um if you're going to these you're going to these

01:23:56.220 pagan parties and you're going to eat meat sacrifice to idols don't don't resist don't be rude who cares

01:24:03.340 these gods have no power over you and basically what paul is doing is he's setting up the sort of

01:24:08.760 attitude that pope gregory later picks up on and it becomes the the christian playbook of

01:24:15.380 why christianity sort of succeeds in the way it does is it absorbs the traditions into its own fold

01:24:23.540 it's not that i don't think christianity conquered the west i think the west conquers christianity in

01:24:32.220 a weird way and the way the reason why i say that and i'm not i'm not saying we should all become

01:24:36.520 christians now but i'm saying like you see a germanization of christianity in germany you see a

01:24:42.620 hellenization of christianity in greece you see a roman romanification of christianity in italy

01:24:49.760 there are all these traditions and even like in persia they're like very persian orientated

01:24:55.680 christianity in the what they call the eastern tradition in the coptic tradition there's a lot

01:25:01.480 of egyptian iconography and i don't know if you know this you know what a sistrum is it's what it's

01:25:07.480 it's an instrument that isis holds if you can pull it up s-i-s-t-r-u-m you can look up coptic

01:25:15.100 christians holding sistrum oh yes this this yeah yeah see if you can pull that up coptic and this

01:25:21.340 is this is like i'm going to show you a smoking gun right now of how i know i'm right shaken during

01:25:25.360 religious ceremonies yeah so these coptic christians are continuing what the egyptians used to do in the

01:25:33.220 rituals of isis where they would hold sistrums i'm pretending this knife is a sistrum and they would

01:25:38.680 shake the sistrum and chant and they would they would honor isis and there it is that's the sistrum

01:25:46.060 there are cop there are there should be photos on on google of coptic christians yes holding the

01:25:52.000 sistrum that's right so the it's and this is only in only in egypt they had this so you can see that

01:26:01.180 this is like the this is the playbook of christianity they literally they continue their old traditions

01:26:06.600 and they see there's isis holding it you know what i mean

01:26:09.340 but yeah you could find i've seen it before where they show like you see like actual bishops

01:26:16.460 in the yes i was just thinking yeah holding those holding those up and so this just that's that's

01:26:22.900 their playbook you know a couple last questions for you uh the future of religion do we need an update

01:26:28.820 i feel we do i think we need like we talked about a holistic approach that's kind of updated more for

01:26:33.800 the current year updated cosmology not a big fan of einstein around here but also the old gods

01:26:40.440 folk traditions but also like adding additional myths to tell the story i think of our current times

01:26:46.440 and our current battles and the downfalls that we're currently in which is kind of like rome but

01:26:53.040 not really like rome right i mean we're dealing with also health aspects now poisoning ai like all the

01:26:59.380 big pharma stuff the environmental pollution the racial replacement the non-stop propaganda and

01:27:04.920 subversives like it's a monumental battle people are hungry for spirituality they're hungry for

01:27:10.360 religion they're hungry for something to cling on to in these hard times what do you think about

01:27:15.520 the future yeah one of the things that we assume because i think it's because of christianity and

01:27:20.760 islam where the books have to be old they have to be ancient for them to make for them to matter

01:27:26.880 we have this like backwards idea that oh it has to be thousands of years old for it to be sacred

01:27:32.700 well no that when the greeks were writing their myths they were writing them in the time that they

01:27:37.600 were alive homer was homer was writing for his time that's right ovid was writing for his time in

01:27:43.520 the first century nonis was writing the dionysica in the fifth century a.d um you have epics the norse

01:27:51.260 sagas are written in the ninth and tenth and eleventh twelve and you there's no reason why people

01:27:55.980 should not be writing new new media new poetry or new maybe maybe now we have film so now maybe the

01:28:03.140 mediums have changed a little bit but like write a write film uh make music right do make new

01:28:10.620 inspirational through the muse music uh film comedy whatever it is any type of medium through

01:28:18.340 through art or even like paintings and stuff yeah you should we should always be making new art

01:28:24.000 and we should always be updating who our heroes are so in the greek in the greek and roman world

01:28:29.380 and in the norse world in the celtic world the germanic world you have the heroes you have uh you

01:28:36.320 know ragnar the red like you have the heroes of the time period and you honored the heroes maybe you

01:28:41.720 built a statue to them or whatever maybe you built a temple in their honor there's no reason why we

01:28:46.760 shouldn't have heroes today uh the america the founding fathers of america are heroes you know

01:28:52.840 whatever i'm just making up thinking thinking out loud here but like there's no reason why the heroes

01:28:58.820 have to be from 2000 years ago that's right like it has to be aged a certain point of time before it's

01:29:05.220 like legit right no we should honor we should honor people if they deserve to be honored and even if it's

01:29:10.900 yesterday or tomorrow yeah so and and we all can compile and contribute to that mythology you know

01:29:17.520 especially if you're thinking in terms of like a collective european folk soul and our consciousness

01:29:21.820 and it's very metaphysical i love all that absolutely okay so give some books to recommend for newcomers who

01:29:27.260 want to dive into the world of you know paganism and myth you have quite the library where does one

01:29:31.740 begin i get this question all the time where you know it's so vast yeah the archives so i would say

01:29:38.480 if you want to get quick access to a lot of different sources uh subscribe to loeb loeb it's

01:29:46.700 right online you can it has all the entire classical library all the ancient greek all the ancient latin

01:29:54.000 and it's got the the the ancient latin or greek on the left side and the english on the right side

01:29:59.620 that's one way you can there you go that's one way you can get a hold of every ancient the whole

01:30:05.120 classical period from homer up until knowness it's all in there at your fingertips um and then another

01:30:12.720 another suggestion would be you can get these uh oxford translations these white ones these are all

01:30:18.340 oxford translations i have uh ovid horus epictetus salus demosthenes diodorus menander plotus james

01:30:28.460 fraser uh mls livy lucian plenty the younger i'm just reading like you could get those are all cheap

01:30:35.020 on amazon you could just read translations of ancient sources and like start you know depending

01:30:42.220 on who you are maybe you're maybe you have ancient slavic roots look up some slavic folklore read that

01:30:49.580 or if you like ancient roman and greek like me you can read ovid and and and um virgil homer

01:30:57.180 diodorus of sicily herodotus some of the historians like herodotus and xenophon if you want to get a

01:31:03.780 little more deeper and get into the philosophy plato there's plato and aristotle but that's

01:31:07.700 that might be a little bit advanced like you might not that's not like light reading yeah yeah it's not

01:31:13.060 light reading that's not light reading but but ovid i mean you could pick up ovid and enjoy ovid right off the

01:31:18.960 bat there's some newer ones too i don't know if you you've heard of stephen mcnallan i thought i

01:31:23.120 had his books around here on native european spirituality that's newer uh elena benwa on

01:31:28.920 being a pagan is pretty pretty interesting um and also i i wanted to push one of our friends books

01:31:36.100 here the spirit of yule tom rousel yes yes the kids like looking through that oh and looks like i have

01:31:43.520 one question here for you and i think i know the article you're referencing hi archie said did you read

01:31:47.860 for you the 1999 article titled neo-paganism in the public square and its relevance to judaism by

01:31:54.640 manfred gerstenfeld and if so what's your impression of the article i guess we'll have to pull up that

01:31:59.940 i haven't read that yet i i think i recall that where he's if i remember correctly he's viewing

01:32:05.080 paganism as a bigger threat than christianity to really to zionist uh influences oh to zion okay i thought

01:32:14.360 he meant like to us i was like really i'm gonna love to hear that argument um well yeah because

01:32:20.460 this is it's so simple to me because if you're a christian and you think you know you were you know

01:32:28.660 you you think the jews killed jesus and you those are your enemies now because of that well that's only

01:32:36.340 going to get you so far because you have you've just adopted a worldview that makes them chosen

01:32:42.840 people who predicted your messiah while your ancestors were backwards and heresy land worshiping

01:32:50.760 demons their ancestors were getting literally the word from god to their people on what to do on how to

01:32:58.960 live on you're my chosen people and you're my chosen flock and the messiah is going to come through

01:33:03.580 you and then like so even if you even if you had this idea well i'm a christian and i reject the

01:33:10.060 jews because they killed jesus you're still playing in their sandbox that they created get out of that

01:33:16.640 yeah they're trying i just did did grok to summarize it but judaism must establish a watch by rediscovering

01:33:22.520 classical sources to counter neo-paganism's allure right and then it also talks about in here the

01:33:29.140 jewish involvement in neo-paganism notes a disproportionate jewish participation in u.s

01:33:34.220 neo-pagan and new age groups well yeah the whole new age thing has been a subversion of taking some

01:33:40.320 authentic paganism and kind of twisting it into this other kind of fluff so yeah and it's and it's you

01:33:46.680 could tell a lot of the new agers ultimately are just like gnostic christians they're like it's it's

01:33:53.020 very judeo-christian and it's in its framework like oh yeah like christ consciousness that idea

01:33:59.140 i heard someone recently point out they're like oh uh project blue beam it's going to be this thing

01:34:05.080 where uh the government's going to make everyone think that their religion their their god has come

01:34:11.160 but it's really not the it's like it's a complete illusion right i've heard this and then he said but

01:34:16.240 really it's going to be the antichrist and i just thought to myself why the antichrist you just

01:34:21.780 you're now i have to go through your worldview now i don't know it's just it's just fake it's

01:34:27.700 just project blue beam and then it's just fake it's not the antichrist but like i just noticed how

01:34:32.300 even this even there they were they were trying to be like oh everyone's going to get faked out by

01:34:37.300 this thing but it'll be the antichrist it's like oh you're still playing and you're still in that

01:34:41.680 matrix yeah you can't think outside of that matrix now yeah exactly well some of us do

01:34:47.360 articles thank you very much as high line i'm looking forward to watching this after work

01:34:51.400 you guys are the best take care yeah this has been awesome thank you so much i know we spent a lot of

01:34:56.540 time we could probably talk for hours so this is amazing and i i love all the work you're doing and

01:35:01.620 very appreciative that you made time for us today so chill your websites and everything where people

01:35:06.980 can go to hear you yeah check me out on gnostic informant at youtube uh i got a lot of work coming

01:35:12.860 out um i'm doing i've been working on a documentary about ancient greece for a while and the reason

01:35:18.220 what's taking me so long is i'm waiting for one of the people who i met up with in greece to finish

01:35:23.060 their court case because they got arrested for opening a temple and i my documentary contains a

01:35:30.480 lot of information that he wants to wait for me to put out until after the case is done so it should

01:35:36.920 be another month or two but i'm gonna but the more i the more they make me wait the more i get to put

01:35:41.600 into it it's gonna be really really good well produced that's the temple right there by the

01:35:45.780 way that's that was where i stayed in arcadia so arrest like he got arrested for for what like

01:35:52.120 the orthodox church in greece has a lot of power and they don't want hellenism to be revived there

01:35:59.640 because it's a threat to their to what they're what they have going on so they they actually had

01:36:05.280 spies in this is a private property and i couldn't believe this until i went there when i when i went

01:36:10.140 there you do you cannot see that temple from from the public from like a public road you have to go

01:36:16.160 through through hills and mountains and and trees to get to this little area in the middle of nowhere

01:36:22.200 where no one can see which means they had to have sent someone in there who's pretending to be a pagan

01:36:27.400 to go there get video and then come back and say these people have a temple and and so he got yeah

01:36:33.440 that's that's bexies and they're still threatened and it's way out there in this little temple

01:36:37.240 yeah and that's so they're actually winning the case believe it or not well they better

01:36:42.280 chase because yeah it's on private property it's not open to the public so nobody could just go

01:36:47.300 there and worship they have to be it's all just friends doing their own public private thing so

01:36:51.740 according to that they're winning but he wants he's like look if i i don't want to i don't want to be

01:36:56.640 too um he's like you can drop it you can drop the documentary but you'll take take this part out

01:37:02.820 and this part out just until and i was like no no no i'm not doing that i'll just wait a little bit

01:37:06.360 wait for your case to be over with let's put the whole thing out i want everyone to see this

01:37:09.860 yeah definitely we'll have to get them on red eyes too that's amazing yeah yeah you gotta support these

01:37:13.780 guys i can get you yeah that would be awesome we would love that we have to help support these guys

01:37:17.720 too you know in any way possible awesome gotta rally around our own folks well thank you neil i'll

01:37:22.780 let you go as i rattle off the names of our producers but it's been a blast and uh yeah we'll talk

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Red Ice TV - December 11, 2025

Out of the Shadows： Pagan Wisdom, Christian Allegory & The European Folk Soul with Gnostic Informant

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