Red Ice TV - The Black Box Gamble： Known And Unknown Dangers of AI with Erik

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00:03:30 And ladies and gentlemen, welcome back. Thank you for joining us.

00:03:34 Henrik here, Red Ice TV. Hope you're all doing well.

00:03:36 It is Woden's Day, Wednesday, Unstag.

00:03:40 It is the, what is it, 29th of April, 2026.

00:03:43 Already, I hope you're all doing well. Thank you for joining us.

00:03:45 We're going to have a nice, I think a laid-back conversation here today

00:03:48 regarding artificial intelligence.

00:03:50 I invited a buddy here. We have some mutual friends.

00:03:53 Eric is joining us, and I don't think any one of us

00:03:56 have a kind of particular expertise per se in that subject.

00:04:00 And correct me if I'm wrong, Eric, obviously,

00:04:02 because you know more about that than me,

00:04:04 but it doesn't leave us out of the picture

00:04:08 to extrapolate and do threat assessment

00:04:11 and try to figure out what is going on with AI.

00:04:13 How transformative will it be?

00:04:15 What are some of the trapdoors that are known?

00:04:18 What are some of the unknown things that can happen?

00:04:20 Because this is for sure a technology

00:04:22 which i think um we haven't we haven't seen the likes of this a technology that's basically primed

00:04:29 to replace every aspect of human labor and uh well it's up to this point uh purpose uh that's right

00:04:35 uh so far you know how you doing eric thank you for coming on i'm doing great thank you very much

00:04:39 for having me and i i completely agree yeah for the record i am not an ai expert i don't work with

00:04:44 one of the big ai companies that's pushing all this tech forward but i i do work in tech and uh

00:04:50 that's really positioned me well to see how these technologies are changing what's you know

00:04:55 interesting to clients in the market how are people using these things what's got traction

00:04:59 in the business world so i'm more of a more of a close-up spectator i would say yeah exactly uh

00:05:04 i mean again that's kind of like you know my job part of doing this is as i've said many times

00:05:08 before but threat assessment looking at the whole map what are we what's the dangers that we face

00:05:13 both in terms of our people our folk but also in terms of my my children you know everything right

00:05:18 I'm just like always been a very astute observer.

00:05:21 I've always appreciated and kind of liked technology to a certain extent.

00:05:25 I think I understand the dependency, obviously, that we're developing on it,

00:05:30 but at the same time, the potential that it has.

00:05:33 But I do have to say off the outset here, this is a different technology.

00:05:36 This is not like we can understand where like maybe where technology makes us weaker, right?

00:05:42 Like let's take a couple of examples, right?

00:05:44 You could go back to, let's say you go back to the, what is it, the Paleolithic times or something, or even before that, like before we have fire, right?

00:05:51 It's like, okay, fire is a technology, but did it weaken us?

00:05:57 Probably, right?

00:05:58 We understood how to harness fire, how to make sure that we have it in our procession, how to start it eventually, things like this, right?

00:06:06 But did it weaken us?

00:06:08 Yeah, probably, but it made life a heck of a lot easier, and I don't have a problem with fire, obviously.

00:06:13 that's using our intellect, using our brain, right?

00:06:15 If you go forward, it's like,

00:06:17 let's take the technologies that have come

00:06:19 after the Industrial Revolution, right?

00:06:21 We're toiling in the fields.

00:06:22 It's hard, backbreaking labor, and people die early.

00:06:28 We have machines that can help us now.

00:06:31 You know what I mean?

00:06:31 A farmer can farm incredible amounts of land on his own.

00:06:36 He's basically an engineer.

00:06:37 He's not even a farmer anymore.

00:06:38 He is a technician and an engineer of sorts, right?

00:06:41 But at the same time, if we rely on all the machines to do the labor for us,

00:06:47 yeah, we will become weak, you know what I mean?

00:06:49 Like we can have machines lift our heavy stuff,

00:06:52 but do we use our bodies anymore, right?

00:06:54 We atrophy.

00:06:56 And now I think we're coming into that,

00:06:58 the type of technology now is where it's replacing our cognitive ability.

00:07:02 And the question is, what happens when we stop using our brain?

00:07:06 I think that's a completely different technology altogether, wouldn't you agree?

00:07:11 Absolutely, I agree. And the thing is, to me, it's kind of about surface area. So those previous changes in the way that the economy worked, the industrial revolution, machines coming online, what that allowed for was the retreat from those who used to have to engage in physical labor to either other physical labor, or more importantly, especially in the last 100 years, to our last, let's say 75 years, to the realm of what we often just call knowledge work, right?

00:07:39 So it allowed for more and more brains to be put to work in a way that was meaningful.

00:07:44 But now AI is coming in and is kind of threatening that final frontier.

00:07:49 And at present, we don't have another one to retreat to.

00:07:51 If we lose knowledge work, it's a massive portion of the world's population who's currently

00:07:56 providing for their families and having a way of engaging with the economy meaningfully,

00:08:02 as well as, unfortunately, we've also got robotics spinning up at the same time and

00:08:06 rushing to meet this not to mention the fact that ai itself will help in the development of those

00:08:12 robotics to the point of practicality so it's it's not it's we're kind of rushing to terminator all

00:08:16 at once but more like terminators in the fields or in the office or you know swabbing the decks

00:08:21 i think the chances of like n ai or the ai whatever you want to call it there's many many

00:08:28 different ones competing ones which one will be the thing maybe maybe it will be a multitude

00:08:32 obviously but still yeah the chances of it outright just you know building like death bots

00:08:38 or something to come get us it's very it's very small obviously i i if it's if it's sufficiently

00:08:44 intelligent it would fight us if it sees us as a nuisance or a problem or like maybe kind of similar

00:08:50 how we view like ants when we're building a structure or something like we're not going to

00:08:54 take the time to even move the ant call like why even bother right but even if it did that even if

00:08:59 it saw it as a nuisance or yeah a resource competitor essentially um it would fight us

00:09:05 in a type of war where we don't even understand that it is a war i would assume right yeah i mean

00:09:11 we could easily get to that point it's kind of humorous but i end up thinking about kind of the

00:09:16 late doom possibilities far less only because i feel like you know you titled this about like the

00:09:21 black box of ai right i feel like those late stages are the most black box like it's very

00:09:27 hard to penetrate that far into the future and understand, like, is it one bot? Is it many bots?

00:09:32 Sure, we could be like ants to it. But I think that the counterpoint to that could be,

00:09:36 but it might also have the empathy of a god, right? So it might be like us,

00:09:40 our relationship with ants, but with a much greater consciousness to where it can both,

00:09:43 you know, rub its tummy, chew gum, and take care of every ant in the way. We don't know.

00:09:47 So I often find myself more consumed with thinking about the next 5, 10 to 20 years,

00:09:53 that interim period before we get to whatever sort of super intelligence that is, there's a

00:09:58 whole lot of runway in which we have to deal with very powerful humans at the helm of an increasingly

00:10:03 powerful AI that is taking up all of the space upon which we've been able to perform labor to

00:10:08 retrieve resources and to engage with each other. That's where most of my attention lies.

00:10:13 Yeah, because we don't know what direction this will go, right? Will it benefit

00:10:15 the people who are coding it? Some people said they're actually, you're growing AI,

00:10:21 You're actually not coding it.

00:10:23 It's kind of an interesting thing.

00:10:24 We can talk more about that later maybe.

00:10:25 But either those who do grow it or those who, let's say, fund it,

00:10:31 maybe there's other variables within that itself,

00:10:33 or it could be to the benefit of the AI itself, right?

00:10:36 That it starts telling the humans, which grows it, funds it,

00:10:44 that, yeah, I'll do what you want me to do, et cetera, whatever.

00:10:49 But then obviously it hides intent.

00:10:50 we've already seen some of those experiments actually happening and taking place where it's

00:10:54 like it basically does things on the back end it uh lies for the lack of a better term to its

00:11:00 uh you know the coders that are investigating it or asking it to do certain prompting it to do

00:11:06 certain things so like you know and if this thing becomes because we're not at that point yet too i

00:11:11 think that's an important thing to mention early in the conversation here that we're not talking

00:11:15 about chad's gpt and its current form taking over the the world and dominating in some kind of way

00:11:19 obviously right um we're talking about something that might happen could happen next year could

00:11:25 happen within two years maybe it's 10 years out or maybe it's you know next month we we don't know

00:11:30 and the problem is that the people that are growing these ais doesn't know either and the

00:11:36 reason for that it has to do with the black box title that you brought up i'm glad you mentioned

00:11:39 that too because basically as far as i understand it you know i've listened to some you know ai

00:11:44 experts on this issue but no one can kind of raise the hood of of ai and look at all the what is it

00:11:52 millions if not billions of numbers essentially being crunched uh to compute compute compute

00:11:58 and no one can look at that and say well see this is really kind of what's going on here right this

00:12:04 is really the mechanics of it and if we you know change this or take this portion out or recode

00:12:09 this doesn't even work that way but even if they could do that that's going to change it or turn

00:12:14 it into this direction so the idea with the black box is you can you can monitor the inputs and of

00:12:19 course from our perspective eric when we look at like chat gpt or some of these you know models

00:12:26 throughout the now that's available to to the market we're not privy to all the inputs by the

00:12:31 way you know we don't know how they're doing this or exactly what it's what they're feeding it it's

00:12:36 not open source right but we can at least on the surface know what we're putting in but we don't

00:12:41 know what's happening internally but we can monitor kind of the output or what comes out of

00:12:45 that so this is a a hugely unknown variable that we're basically toying around with without

00:12:52 truly kind of understanding well where where will this go and what's the potential consequence of

00:12:58 of this this is in other words a massive risk that could turn out to be nothing but as i'm looking

00:13:06 at it at least i want your input on this but as i'm looking at this the chances of it going wrong

00:13:13 it way outweighs the potential positive outcome that we will get from this what's your view

00:13:19 yeah agreed and unfortunately going wrong like the bearish case for humanity is the bullish case for

00:13:25 ai right so if if ai ends up being a nothing burger if it ends up well i mean getting bringing

00:13:30 it back to the practical like my company right now is making a huge push at creating ai tools

00:13:35 for our industry i mean we refer to it as the magic right we're working up demos and we're showing

00:13:40 uh our prospective clients like here's what we are wanting to build we want to partner with you

00:13:44 to build this and all of those those customers they've are they're spending time with claude like

00:13:49 nine months ago we couldn't have made this pitch four months ago we now can because everybody's

00:13:55 tried claude everybody's been able to actually plug in parts of their work and say i'm getting

00:13:59 results without with relatively little effort so what can the experts come come in and build

00:14:05 that actually works so it's possible that that all comes crashing down it doesn't work it fails

00:14:09 businesses go under right we're seeing some mistakes made but i'm not gonna bet on that

00:14:14 i'm pretty bullish on the technology in terms of i think that even though it's black boxy and it's

00:14:18 magic key we're able to harness the magic and it's gonna it's going to be so efficient it's

00:14:23 going to cut costs for companies so much it's gonna it is going to replace labor in a way that

00:14:27 capitalism cannot ignore it's going to be the right choice to go with these technologies despite

00:14:32 despite the risks and because that is the case again barring some massive failure of it it is

00:14:37 going to keep increasing the resources will keep going to it the magic will increase but the black

00:14:41 box is just as black and so we keep going into a future where we're feeding this thing but we don't

00:14:46 know what that's going to be long term but again looking at what that could do to the labor market

00:14:51 and not just the labor market in terms of economy but rather like how we all are able to engage with

00:14:56 each other to provide value to receive value back and make our way through the world and leverage

00:15:00 our our power and sovereignty against governments and industry that's all at threat by the bullish

00:15:06 case for ai yeah because i mean you could and i've seen some people do that argument kind of like

00:15:11 it's this is kind of like a capitalism uh you know fault kind of a design fault within that

00:15:17 that it's constantly seeking you know kind of the bottom line or whatever but even no matter what

00:15:22 political system you have at least if we would approach this point where we're at now the danger

00:15:29 would maybe not be exactly the same but very similar maybe maybe would have taken a different

00:15:33 path but the end well we don't know what the end result will be but i'm saying the many potentials

00:15:39 of a of a disastrous outcome for mankind are still there on the horizon i think no matter what

00:15:44 human political system you you you transpose on top of the the conditions that are existing right

00:15:49 now and and and why well because of course economy is a is a real thing right what what do we what

00:15:57 What do we work for, right?

00:15:59 Okay, ultimately, you have to provide.

00:16:00 We used to be that you toil in the field, as I said before, right?

00:16:03 You produce your own food.

00:16:04 It's subsistence living.

00:16:06 You're doing these things.

00:16:07 You get specialization, industrialization.

00:16:10 All of a sudden, while I sit at an office, but the point is kind of the same around that,

00:16:14 that is like you need to basically do something to carry your own weight, right?

00:16:19 You need to, as you said, kind of contribute value to the overall society that we live in.

00:16:23 But what's interesting about the system then is that humans are basically, within the system, educated and trained to be like machines, right, in a way, you could say, where the system is a machine-like system.

00:16:37 But the reality of this then is that machines will obviously be better at being machines than humans will be, right?

00:16:44 Much better.

00:16:45 Much better. So as the technology itself progresses, to make machines, ironically, also more like us, because we're making them in our likeness, here we go with the kind of spiritual god-like analogies here, but still, but it's just a matter of time before we then basically are replaced by the very technology that we are now building.

00:17:06 I kind of liken it to, you know, those things that they present with like the natives, I guess, in South America or something in this case. 0.84

00:17:14 The natives are standing on the beach and all of a sudden here's this ship approaching and obviously, you know, contained within it is superior technology and they don't stand a chance. 0.99

00:17:23 And it's very kind of similar here, right?

00:17:25 We're kind of the natives, but what's strange here is that we are the builders of the very technology that probably will replace us.

00:17:33 I don't think there's any civilization that fare very, very well when a superior technology showed up.

00:17:40 Can you think of any?

00:17:42 No, I don't have any good examples, especially not when the difference is this big, right?

00:17:47 This is mechanized, modern, like World War II level humans showing up on the Solomon Islands, right?

00:17:53 Right.

00:17:54 The Gulf is so huge.

00:17:56 And additionally, like you mentioned, that we're making it in our image, which is true.

00:17:59 But very quickly, it's also shaping us into its image.

00:18:03 And this is the problem, like there is some pushback among some of my more philosophical

00:18:07 friends that AI has the potential to help us reflect back on ourselves.

00:18:13 And I will admit, I sometimes love talking to the AIs about deep subjects because they

00:18:17 don't get tired.

00:18:18 They don't get tired.

00:18:18 They don't get offended.

00:18:19 They have full access to the breadth of human knowledge.

00:18:23 And so they can be a fantastic thinking partner for a lot of tasks.

00:18:26 I mean, I'm using it all day, every day for work, and I use it for some of my personal

00:18:29 stuff as well.

00:18:29 So it's not that these technologies don't have that capability, but unfortunately, what we're seeing is not modern technology and AI-generated content creating better people, more connected people, more engaged people, better attention spans, right?

00:18:46 Like we were already pretty disillusioned with what was happening just with social media

00:18:49 and human made content.

00:18:50 Now we're going to like, it's going to be very, very quick here before your entire feed

00:18:55 on like YouTube shorts or TikTok, take your pick is going to be AI generated based off

00:18:59 of your likes, right?

00:19:00 Here's 30 second videos made in real time that simply give you a burst of dopamine,

00:19:06 right?

00:19:06 So unfortunately, I don't think we're going to see a, there'll be pockets, I think of

00:19:10 flowering of like human Renaissance, but for the, for the wider world, I don't expect that

00:19:14 to happen.

00:19:15 yeah because we're hardwired to take the path of least uh resistance it's kind of like a bio it's

00:19:20 not an error but it's like a biology issue us being i i well i mean that's true for calories

00:19:26 but why is it true for content it's true because we're well we're exploitable we get addicted to

00:19:31 that those dope we get we can get addicted to all sorts of chemical hits right people can get

00:19:34 cortisol and seek out abuse right yeah but in the case of short-form content it's just that i mean

00:19:39 i can definitely feel the change in myself right and i'm i'm old enough to have existed before all

00:19:43 these things but i can see the effect it has even just on you know an x feed of just constant

00:19:49 changing of news cycles there's some scientists recently who who have been measuring time span

00:19:53 or sorry attention span over time in young people and back in like 2001 2002 i believe it was about

00:19:59 two and a half minutes that the average uh young person could focus on a task and that same uh that

00:20:05 same scientist using the same rubric is now down to it's 40 seconds for that same class of young

00:20:10 people today so we're seeing this degradation and i i don't see how uh again there are certainly

00:20:15 going to be uses of ai that can help combat that but i don't expect the masses to pick up those

00:20:19 uses i expect them to continue to be formed into consumers of short form ai generated content

00:20:24 and it's like damn if you do damn if you don't this is going to happen whether or how no matter

00:20:29 how much we sit here and whine and complain right and it's correct correct and it's the same with 0.93

00:20:33 as any technology it's although i draw a line here this is a different type of technology it's it's

00:20:39 the technology to end all technology if that's the right term for it it's or the it's the

00:20:44 culmination of the industrial revolution and the technological revolution yeah exactly and and we

00:20:49 don't even and at that point we even lose control over it essentially right we we don't know where

00:20:54 it will it will go and that's not some it's not some metaphysical thing it's not to say that it's

00:20:59 like sentient or some type of god or something like that but it will be but it will have elements

00:21:04 of an omniscient, all-seeing, all-knowing entity, essentially.

00:21:11 And I think people will be incredibly enamored by that,

00:21:16 even to the point where probably religion in and of itself

00:21:19 will be formed some way around the AI, I would assume.

00:21:21 I mean, it's already kind of happening as far as we look at it.

00:21:23 Absolutely, yeah, there's no doubt.

00:21:25 It's kind of interesting, though, right?

00:21:26 It's like it will replace, again, kind of like the image I show,

00:21:30 that depending on you know uh how old people are when when this is is around but just think

00:21:36 you know if we even can like 200 years into the future or something like that you know i mean like

00:21:42 it's it's impossible to even envision that but a world where you're surrounded by sensory inputs

00:21:49 and machines that know how in an instant to manipulate you essentially right um that's right

00:21:55 this doesn't bode very this doesn't bode very well for us we have to have a conscious uh path

00:22:01 or a conscious strategy on how to deal with it and even if we do that there's no guarantee that

00:22:07 we'll be able to truly not outsmart it because that will never happen but at least being aware

00:22:14 of the fact that it will try to manipulate you in some kind of capacity you know i mean i mean

00:22:20 it already is i mean the algorithms alone i mean you mentioned you kind of this omniscience it

00:22:25 knowing it knowing about us i mean we were already there with just boring old algorithms right like

00:22:29 there's there's women who kind of figured out they were pregnant because amazon started uh

00:22:33 sending them ads for like baby strollers and different things and it's like there's so much

00:22:37 data being fed into the system just from our consumer choices that there are there are facts

00:22:45 about us that the internet again pre-ai could already discern just basic machine learning

00:22:50 now we're adding on this whole extra layer of llms and it's not just llms people get caught up on

00:22:55 like the limitations of llms when you're using chat gpt you're not just using an llm llm is an

00:23:00 interface to many other models there's so many other ai models that are working in geospatial

00:23:05 there's a model out right now that can model that can model physical space based off of electromagnetic

00:23:10 particle relationships i mean it's going to yeah this thing is going to know more about us than we

00:23:15 know about ourselves it's going to be able to play us like musical instruments and if it you know

00:23:20 again in a distant future where that thing is some sort of potentially benevolent thing okay

00:23:24 we can have that conversation but right now we are in the hands of sam altman and mark zuckerberg yes

00:23:28 and elon musk and all of it's it's centralizing this this foreknowledge this we are sitting in

00:23:34 the middle of the panopticon that is being built by men and a lot of us don't necessarily trust

00:23:38 those men or or any men to build the panopticon yeah exactly i was gonna say what what kind of

00:23:42 men is probably in the hands of the worst kind of men to be honest they couldn't be worse um

00:23:47 I don't know if anyone would do it right, but certainly not those guys.

00:23:50 Yeah, I mean.

00:23:50 Well, and particularly for those of us who have, you know, thoughts that are outside of the zeitgeist.

00:23:54 You know, these things are not being built according to the rules of our teams.

00:23:58 No, no, no, exactly.

00:23:59 No, definitely not.

00:23:59 No, in fact, as I said, even if the people, this is third variable that obviously people that warn about AI or talk about the threats of it or whatever, they don't even take that into account.

00:24:09 They're talking about like alignment issues and values and all that kind of stuff.

00:24:12 But what even, but what about the people that are actually building it?

00:24:16 that we can't even ensure that they will be have our values and that they're hoping it's aligned

00:24:21 with them. There's plenty of us who aren't super happy with the alignment of the general population

00:24:26 and the way things are now. So at best, they'll get it aligned to the thing that we are already

00:24:30 pretty skeptical of. So there's a headline here on the screen, mind captioning AI decodes brain

00:24:36 activity to turn thoughts into text. Now, of course, it's using, what was it? It was a couple

00:24:42 of different technologies that they're using different type but the point is this is already

00:24:47 kind of in the works and i would assume that this will be uh far less uh advanced going forward and

00:24:53 it will be far less intrusive it won't be like well you have to put this kind of helmet on or

00:24:57 something or put a you know a brain chip in your skull like no that's uh that's old school i think

00:25:02 the watches and some of the wearables now that they are talking about at least um are kind of

00:25:10 sensitive enough to basically pick up on your nervous system. And basically, at some point,

00:25:16 it's going to be able to decode brain activity. And I don't even know where we go at that point,

00:25:22 to be honest, because as you said, even now, most people are receptacles, essentially, of

00:25:28 inputs of other people's wills and commercials and music or movies, whatever. They're not even

00:25:35 themselves already can you imagine this as a layer in terms of manipulation or kind of knowing what

00:25:41 it it will know what you want before you even know it yourself that type of predictive ability

00:25:47 you know that's right and again that's the other side of a feedback loop right it is it is shaping

00:25:51 your desires it is shaping your chemical reality constantly with the with the content you intake

00:25:57 and then you're going to have all of these i mean they're i'm sure folks have seen it but you know

00:26:02 your wi-fi can be used to make a map of your house and see the router yep yeah it's a it's

00:26:07 a lidar essentially now they're building into the new uh chips yeah precisely and that was like they

00:26:12 could do that it was like kind of fuzzy like 20 years ago it's really good now right now i mean

00:26:16 i'm sure you saw recently that now there's going to be kill switches in every vehicle and ford and

00:26:20 other companies are going to have they're now going to allow law enforcement to tap into the

00:26:24 the cameras and different things that are inside of the the interior of your car that are looking

00:26:29 for are you tired are you drunk are your pupils dilated right so like just what it can read on

00:26:33 the surface i mean there's a lot that can be said about your mindset and your chemical state just

00:26:38 from your skin temperature pupil dilation micro expressions now you add on to what you've got on

00:26:43 the screen right now with actually being able to get into our brain i think that a lot of that will

00:26:46 be happening before we even realize what the technology is that's doing it unfortunately

00:26:50 yeah exactly um okay so there's a lot to break down there i talked about the financial system

00:26:56 And I was kind of, I want to convey that picture, I guess, or paint that picture for people of us, basically.

00:27:04 How do we put it?

00:27:06 It looks to me that we're also kind of building, therefore, ourselves out of the system.

00:27:13 I think that the way that they're selling artificial intelligence, not always, obviously.

00:27:17 A lot of this is so far entertainment, obviously, or generative AI.

00:27:22 Sure, the large language models are also fun.

00:27:24 It can coalesce or distill a lot of information for you.

00:27:28 It can do papers for you.

00:27:29 It can do essays, books, editing your text and things like that,

00:27:33 which is, you know, it is incredible, really, when you look at it.

00:27:36 It's like, whoo, like how does this even work?

00:27:38 And the people working on it don't even know exactly how wide it works.

00:27:41 They can't even explain it to you.

00:27:43 Why does it work?

00:27:44 We don't know.

00:27:44 It seems to be this more esoteric and occult,

00:27:47 and I don't want to derail too much because I have a train of thought here,

00:27:49 But it almost seems that what makes it work so well is the language.

00:27:57 It's almost like it's language that is the magical thing.

00:28:00 Do you see what I'm saying?

00:28:01 Because the tokens of the words that it processes are just what we call

00:28:08 numerical symbolic values based on actual words, right?

00:28:13 So the words are really kind of at the root of it.

00:28:16 It takes a word and it breaks it up into different tokens, right, which is numbers.

00:28:21 It crunches these numbers in these gradient layers, essentially, like in these big data centers.

00:28:26 And exactly, again, how that worked, the gradient descent.

00:28:29 And they're talking about dimensions, even like relatability between words, like even where words are, you know, they're spelled the same way, but within the context, they mean different things.

00:28:43 And how does it figure that out?

00:28:45 and they're finding dimensions inside of the system itself

00:28:49 where it aligns or it's weighing toward a certain area.

00:28:52 Anyway, you look at all that and you're just like,

00:28:54 wow, this is pretty impressive.

00:28:55 But to me at least, it kind of looks like it's language

00:28:58 that really is the magic here.

00:29:00 But I don't know, what's your take on that?

00:29:03 I mean, agreed.

00:29:04 I mean, it is kind of humorous and appropriate that all,

00:29:08 I mean, let's say all the major religions,

00:29:10 the words are very important, right?

00:29:11 Christianity, the word is God, right?

00:29:13 And like in Hinduism, Om is the word by which, you know, creation comes into existence.

00:29:19 So like language has always been powerful in the human imagination as long as we've had it.

00:29:23 And again, it's true.

00:29:24 Like the LLMs are really what has set off this particular set of AI progression.

00:29:31 We've had a lot of different AI machine learning algorithms before.

00:29:34 But what we're moving towards is not having to use the hands, not having to build interfaces

00:29:42 and computers for humans to interact with tactically. Those are all slow. If I want to

00:29:46 book a flight, I have to type in words to get to my flights.google.com. I then have to go click on

00:29:51 different things. This is all slow. What I want to be able to do is say, Google, book me a flight

00:29:57 from this place to this place on this date, find me the best price and make sure there's no more

00:30:01 than two legs and I don't want to travel for more than 13 hours total. And it's done. Right now,

00:30:07 the layer that's being built out is LLMs are being used to tie into the APIs that the current

00:30:13 internet is built upon so that it can use the function that humans have built to carry out

00:30:18 tasks. That's the current task. What's going to start happening, though, is all of those layers

00:30:24 of human interaction of the internet are going to start being pushed to the wayside. Those aren't

00:30:28 going to be necessary anymore. So as AI starts rebuilding the lower levels of the internet and

00:30:35 the lower levels of software, there will come a point when the only way to interact with

00:30:39 digital tasks is to speak, is to use language. Now that's going to both be really cool, again,

00:30:45 in this like, wow, I can't believe it can do that sense. But that's also going to push

00:30:48 humans away from being even able to touch the basics of the digital workspace. So there

00:30:53 will come a point when if you wanted to book a flight with your hands, you won't have the

00:30:56 option to. And as that process continues on further and further into industry, there's

00:31:02 going to come a point when we, in the same way that the lower levels of everything you were

00:31:06 describing with all of the vector databases and the way these things work, we don't, we can

00:31:11 describe them. We don't know why it works so well. There's going to come a point when the entire

00:31:15 digital system just works. And we don't exactly know how to, I mean, we're not going to be able

00:31:20 to access it in the way we did. At that point, we will have given over the keys to the entire

00:31:23 kingdom to AI. Yeah. Because the, even, even if you take into account that like, well,

00:31:29 artificial intelligence is set to you know benefit humans then to benefit the human world or

00:31:36 civilization or something like that it's almost like we're almost more confronted with the

00:31:39 question of that well well what is it like how do we even define it to this thing right to it

00:31:43 understands what like first of all just saying good or better or make things you know even even

00:31:48 that alone is very fuzzy and it can be misinterpreted and you know all kinds of weird

00:31:53 things can happen along the way here um but at the same time just at face value alone right

00:31:58 like well it's going to improve things right at some point you realize well human humans because

00:32:04 we're not machines are kind of we're kind of difficult difficult variable to deal with sure

00:32:10 we're probably more simplistic now unfortunately because of all the technology around us already

00:32:14 and uh it's homogenized it's more of a kind of a global culture everyone listens to the same music

00:32:20 so we're certainly more not as um diverse if that's the right term here but like as as multifaceted

00:32:27 as I think we used to be at some point,

00:32:29 maybe at the height of human civilization.

00:32:32 But at the same time, it's kind of an unknown variable

00:32:35 that's kind of difficult to deal with, right?

00:32:36 But the way to deal with that then is to build,

00:32:39 I think humans will be built out of the system

00:32:42 in and of itself. 0.72

00:32:43 Let's just take the thing with the economy, right?

00:32:47 Short-term solution, because it's capitalism

00:32:49 and bottom line, whatever, companies are like,

00:32:52 if we fire these hundred people

00:32:54 and replace them with AI, we'll make more money.

00:32:57 Okay, great. Let's do it. Can it work? And in some cases, you know, it might have varying degree of success and it might not be, I've heard of some people as like, oh, well, some companies did that and it didn't work and now they're rehiring or whatever. Oh, well, trust me, they'll be back. Okay. This is not like over it. They're not going to, you know, they're going to keep refining this and eventually at some point it will click and they got it. Right. But so the point with that is, you know, the UBI talk, universal basic income, it will just produce things for us.

00:33:26 you know like what do we how does this work right but the point is i've seen some estimates and

00:33:32 stuff like that right and they say ubi even if it even temporarily would work long term how does

00:33:39 that even work right like ai itself is then starting to kind of like generate income or

00:33:45 money or because it's producing things and selling those things well presumably it needs to sell it

00:33:50 to humans i would assume or you're going to sell it to other ais maybe for other reasons that's

00:33:55 possible they might have their own economy or ecosystem or whatever but at some point if we

00:34:01 don't get salaries if we don't have money we're not going to be able to buy all these products

00:34:05 that these great machines produce for us all the automation and all the ai and stuff like that

00:34:09 right we will literally stand on the outside looking at this thing that we've built and we've

00:34:15 designed our way out of it essentially and it's almost like but but you'll have this huge system

00:34:21 of an economy running it will be running your civilization it will be your judges your police

00:34:26 enforcement i know i'm going to kind of ahead of myself here but i'm just thinking of the all

00:34:30 encompassing like the efficiency of society runs much better now on ai right more higher trust

00:34:36 they will probably try to pitch that to us uh it will be objective when it comes to law enforcement

00:34:41 it will run your government much more efficiently so i don't see us like kind of turning away from

00:34:46 it i think we'll just adopt more and more and more of it but who's going to buy all the products if

00:34:52 there's no salaries to go around who's going to buy the products we will have to be we'll be down

00:34:57 to like subsistence farming again on the outside of the system where ai itself is just like kind

00:35:03 of running civilization for its own i i don't know i mean that's just one variable one possible

00:35:08 outcome but as i'm looking at this like we won't even have a part in this we won't even fit into

00:35:12 the system i think that's right and i mean without without jumping the shark let me let me kind of

00:35:18 walk through a couple of the things you said so my my concern is i think the one thing that we can

00:35:24 all see right is is this ubi piece and i think we've we've been pitched ubi for a very long time

00:35:29 so we can comprehend this concept of being given a paycheck to simply exist or to to subsist my

00:35:36 concern with that up front is leverage. So the way that the populace has always been able to have

00:35:43 leverage against government, leverage against centralized powers is one of basically two

00:35:48 things, either the use of violence as in like a revolt, or our labor, the ability to withhold it,

00:35:53 right? That was why the unions were so powerful over 100 years ago, was the ability to withhold

00:35:58 your labor changed, changed the calculation in the system, right? So those who would have used

00:36:03 their power against you in the government or otherwise, you had leverage against them.

00:36:07 As we let go of our labor, we are changing that calculus and we're changing one of the only two

00:36:13 things that we have by which to negotiate as citizens with government. And that leaves us

00:36:19 with only violence. And again, unfortunately, we're coming into a time period where there's

00:36:23 already robot dogs on the streets of Atlanta. They don't have guns strapped to them yet,

00:36:27 but they are walking around and videotaping things and keeping an eye on things. So there's

00:36:31 this pincer movement going on where citizens are going to be, they're going to find it much harder

00:36:36 to use either of the two methods we've always had to maintain balance. Now, as you carry that

00:36:41 forward, the question does become like, okay, well, if everyone's on UBI, a lot of people go

00:36:46 like, oh, that's really cool. Because they kind of look at what they look at the benefits some

00:36:49 folks get out and say, well, I'd probably be fine with that. It's like, yeah, maybe I think you'd

00:36:53 probably be a lot more bored than you think. But more importantly, there's no more social mobility

00:36:57 at that point so if you get your ubi and more labor's gone more labor's gone more labor's gone

00:37:02 and whatever labor is left everyone is trying to pile into that drives the wages for those jobs

00:37:07 down right because it's raised to the bottom okay well you can be a car mechanic okay but now there's

00:37:11 like an extra million people who need to be car mechanics or need to be electricians or need to 0.99

00:37:16 be construction workers great so like just like when you let in a whole bunch of immigrants right

00:37:20 you're letting in digital immigration you're letting in something that replaces that way

00:37:24 I've always called this replacement 2.0.

00:37:25 That's what we're looking at here, you know?

00:37:27 It's the ultimate version.

00:37:28 And so as that takes place, you're right.

00:37:31 Like you're going to get to a point where the consumer economy, as we think of it, is

00:37:35 not going to work in the same way because you don't have the incomes to buy the goods

00:37:39 that happen.

00:37:39 So that's kind of step one.

00:37:43 The second question is, okay, well, then why would they let this happen if they're going

00:37:48 to destroy their entire consumption circle?

00:37:50 that kind of gets into maybe i i think is it just short-term like capitalism is that what

00:37:56 i don't think so i mean no think of it this way like what has been the benefit of letting the

00:38:01 population get so big at the time of great um progress if you will technological progress right

00:38:08 there are a relative few at the very top of the economy who are the shot callers they're mostly

00:38:13 not the presidents they're mostly not the politicians there are other families that

00:38:16 much older who have much much bigger stakes in things like central banks that really pulled the

00:38:22 most important levers right also these these people these funds these sovereign wealth funds

00:38:26 these family offices they're the ones that get to make the decisions as to where the funds go

00:38:31 what technology is important right now ai is the most important right so as many funds are piling

00:38:36 in there as possible okay cool why by making that move you start to put all of the production

00:38:43 into digital labor if digital labor can cover all of the necessities all oil energy uh goods

00:38:51 goods and services food etc if you are part of the elite families let's even just take off the

00:38:57 table like long lifespans let's just leave regular lifespans these are families who already

00:39:01 plan in 100 200 500 000 year cycles right the rothschilds have existed for a long time not by

00:39:07 accident but because they have a lot of intention and there are many other families whose names are

00:39:10 are not as well known who have the same level of intention. Over the next 100, 120, 200 years,

00:39:16 if this technology goes the way that we're talking, they have the ability to have machines

00:39:21 give them everything that they need while they let the population actually decrease. And they

00:39:27 could live on a planet a couple hundred years from now where there's maybe only a billion humans

00:39:31 total. All of the main necessities are taken care of by machines. And there is a underclass of

00:39:37 humans left behind to take care of providing fantastic human experience the best of food the

00:39:42 best of wine the best of tourism the best of things to do and the elites get to live on this 0.72

00:39:46 low population planet with everything they need taken care of by machines and this underclass of

00:39:51 workers that they have there that is what i think the move is because if i was super rich and i had

00:39:56 control of all these that's what i would be driving towards i only needed all of this giant population

00:40:00 and all these machines to get to that point i don't want to live on an overpopulated planet

00:40:04 I want to live on a well-populated planet where I get to have everything that I want and do whatever I want.

00:40:10 Yeah.

00:40:11 So everyone's always worried like, oh, they're going to kill us all.

00:40:14 It's like, to be honest, they don't need to kill us all.

00:40:16 If we go this direction, all they have to do is let the population dwindle.

00:40:21 And before too long, they're going to have the world that suits them best. 0.99

00:40:25 Yeah, I mean, there's already a massive fertility crisis, and including in even third world countries now. 0.94

00:40:32 I mean, for us, from a point of view, maybe that's not fast enough.

00:40:36 I get it.

00:40:36 But it's getting there.

00:40:38 You know, I think Nigeria is among the highest now in the world. 1.00

00:40:41 Correct. 0.99

00:40:42 And if they use AI to accelerate, right?

00:40:44 AI is an acceleration of all of the forces we're typically looking at that we're not big fans of, right?

00:40:50 Like capitalism and liberalism are not folk first.

00:40:52 It's not pro-family.

00:40:54 It's not pro-community.

00:40:55 It's not pro-people.

00:40:56 It is about profits.

00:40:57 It is about getting to having as much stuff as you can for as cheaply as possible.

00:41:01 So it's only going to accelerate all of those lines of progression in a way that could easily lead towards the world that I envision is one possibility that these folks have in mind for this technology.

00:41:11 Yeah, exactly.

00:41:12 Well, there's a lot to break down there.

00:41:13 But, I mean, yeah, this is what?

00:41:16 Was it Harari? 0.92

00:41:17 What do we need all the humans for? 1.00

00:41:19 The World Economic Forum, the little gay Jew, right, who was talking about this. 1.00

00:41:22 And he said, like, yeah, we just give them drugs and computer games. 1.00

00:41:27 Are these people really going to be driven to breed?

00:41:29 And then you have the issue of compiling or compounding toxicity, unfortunately, partially because of the population explosion, but also plastics, microplastics, food toxicity, glyphosate.

00:41:44 We are being poisoned.

00:41:47 We're on a plantation here, essentially.

00:41:49 The cattle is being sprayed and beamed with different things.

00:41:54 Sounds kind of cuckoo, but that's what it feels like at least sometimes.

00:41:58 and you look at everything, oh my gosh, like what's happening?

00:42:01 You know, food supply is bad and then, you know.

00:42:03 Anyway, so that is kind of like they don't have to just kind of mass.

00:42:08 I mean, that is an extermination program in a sense,

00:42:11 the fact that there's no addressing of those types of issues, obviously.

00:42:13 But I'm saying from their point of view,

00:42:15 this is not going to be kind of like legality that's challenged for them here.

00:42:20 This is just going to be seen as like a, oh, it's just a natural decline.

00:42:24 Modernity brings less kids.

00:42:26 You know, it's harder to have, you know, five kids in an apartment in a big city somewhere where you're squeezed together, understandably, right?

00:42:34 So it would just be seen as natural.

00:42:36 That's what I'm saying to them.

00:42:37 But there's actually a depopulation, you know, campaign essentially.

00:42:40 They can easily, like the depopulation is, because I agree with everything you're saying in terms of the effect of these horrors that we see around us.

00:42:47 I mean, ironically, they could we've needed the glyphosate, we've needed the chemicals in that we believe that that was it was the way to make food cheap.

00:42:57 It was the way to bring food to places that couldn't grow their own.

00:43:00 Right. Nigeria is not the largest growing country on the planet because Nigerians are smart.

00:43:05 It's the fastest growing country on the planet because we shoved cheap wheat down their throats. 1.00

00:43:08 Right. So it's very easy for if I'm right or even close to right.

00:43:14 right it's it's actually ironic that the powers that be could easily say cool yeah we'll stop

00:43:19 using glyphosate we'll stop making cheap energy we'll stop doing all these things that actually

00:43:24 did allow for the population boom and then again we can either just i mean i i don't think they're

00:43:29 going to kill us i think that's too messy but we'll just slowly let the population dwindle it

00:43:33 turns out if we give you guys you know video games and drugs you'll just slowly go away 0.82

00:43:37 and then we shall inherit the earth yeah yeah exactly um i wonder if that is there some silver

00:43:44 lining with the straight of humors closure i mean i i still can't think you know that they're you

00:43:49 know this is i mean they could be inept there's ineptitude on a certain level here obviously i'm

00:43:54 not trying to say that either but it is an interesting kind of concept because because

00:43:58 at the same time it's also a squeeze right in terms of like then it's dependency we're back in

00:44:02 that the ball is back in that court again we're all of a sudden like haha now you can't just take

00:44:06 your car where you want to the push for evs will now increase which takes us into kind of the

00:44:11 digital prison which is tied into the whole ai thing over like self-driving cars and uh you know

00:44:17 rationing essentially right here like you your very existence is dependent on all these systems

00:44:22 and um with a flip of a switch you could have violated the terms of service of whatever service

00:44:28 you are using for example or you didn't comply as you said or something and basically it'll be

00:44:33 switched off or limited or chokehold or strangled or something like that so much of this is as much

00:44:38 as i see it and i agree with you in terms of like just the money and and the wealth accumulation by

00:44:43 people are building these things that's just a means to an end and i think ultimately it's it's

00:44:48 it's control that's that stands at the at the pinnacle here they do they want to own this place

00:44:55 they want to run it it's theirs right correct and and again like if you if you could do that right

00:45:00 if you were this giant ruler of the world and you were in so inclined to gather up that much

00:45:05 control for yourself you don't want to like it you don't you want to be able to go wherever you

00:45:09 want on the planet with your catamaran or your yachts and have it be the best version of it 0.81

00:45:13 right so like you don't want 100 million people in nigeria you want like a million people in

00:45:19 nigeria who are all like the best chefs you've ever had so you can roll up in your yacht and

00:45:22 and like experience that part of the world right you you want to have this giant playground i mean

00:45:26 I think most people have never just deeply thought about this because most of us work

00:45:30 inside of our normal little everyday lives.

00:45:32 But if you're the type of people who build central banks, if you're the type of people

00:45:36 who think like, where should I place this trillion dollars so as to get the best outcome,

00:45:40 right?

00:45:40 Like the world in which computers and machines give you what you want and you don't have 1.00

00:45:44 to deal with all of the riffraff, that's a real vision. 1.00

00:45:48 And it's coming within striking distance with a quickness. 1.00

00:45:52 You're a billionaire, right?

00:45:54 You're jet setting around the world.

00:45:56 you're going you know you're flying from ivory tower to ivory tower to global meetings or

00:46:01 whatever and then of course you you probably diddle kids and epstein island on the way too but anyway

00:46:06 whatever reason it goes with the territory yeah uh but anyway so the the point is like yeah you

00:46:10 you'll be that they're living they're already living on a completely different world than we

00:46:15 are these people right um so at some point you begin to absolutely toy you with those types of

00:46:20 ideas they can just they're out on these like nuclear powered yachts or whatever the hell they

00:46:24 have now um and and they don't even have to uh step on land you know i mean they don't even have 0.61

00:46:29 to step among the plebeians among the unwashed masses um i think that they're they're going for

00:46:36 the jugular with this technology that they they have they have something here that in a way solves 0.79

00:46:42 all their problems um it it's it's gonna i think it from their point of view take care of business

00:46:48 for them i think the deeper interesting kind of philosophical addition to that is we but but is it

00:46:55 though or do they also know what they are building will they actually even be in control of of the

00:47:00 thing that they think is their salvation i think i mean they're the ones rolling the dice right

00:47:05 like we're all involved in the gamble but we're not the gamblers they are the gamblers and they

00:47:09 are it apparently seems like they are willing to roll this particular set of dice yeah yeah i wonder

00:47:16 wonder why it's the same thing with like some of the toxicity that seems to be i mean maybe they're 0.59

00:47:21 dumb to a certain extent certain level but i showed the glyphosate issue before frankly like

00:47:25 how they are they not affected by this either you know kind of thing of like just the amount 0.95

00:47:30 of toxicity but anyway that's it that's a different question um let me go back to the

00:47:34 point here there's a lot of things we can go into um it's musk mentioned the bootloader for

00:47:41 super intelligence i think that was kind of interesting too right that humanity again it's

00:47:45 And this idea that I thought about earlier today, it's almost like this, I don't mean to get spiritual philosophical, but I can see the way that they see these transhumanist or technocrats, whatever you want to call it.

00:48:00 Like, I think many of them are genuinely excited about, like, well, we're going to live for, you know, 400 years.

00:48:06 We're going to just print organs, and we're going to be integrated with machines and be super smart, and they'll be, like, the gods of old, right?

00:48:15 They're going to be the, you know, Mount Olympus gods, and they're going to be able to do whatever they want to do.

00:48:20 So I think they're genuinely kind of excited about that.

00:48:22 But it's almost like the earth is like, it has all these rare minerals and things were placed here, like a big puzzle for us to just kind of put together somehow and extract and refine and, you know, put together.

00:48:38 And all of a sudden, poof, here's this new being, essentially, literally like kind of an alien intelligence, something that, sure, comes kind of out of our, out of us to a certain extent, right?

00:48:53 It's not some alien creating this thing, but at the same time, it will be, it's a golem, it's a monster, it's a Frankenstein's monster to a certain extent as well.

00:49:03 but we don't even know what it's going to do

00:49:04 and it's going to be so powerful

00:49:06 and strong and intelligent and smart

00:49:09 and be able to do all these things.

00:49:11 I don't know.

00:49:11 It's just, there's something weird going on here.

00:49:14 If you have this as an outlook

00:49:15 where like you see humanity overall

00:49:18 as kind of, maybe not obsolete,

00:49:20 I don't think that's what Elon says here,

00:49:21 but like vital in a cog or a machine

00:49:24 just to bring about this thing,

00:49:27 whatever it actually is.

00:49:29 It's weird, isn't it?

00:49:30 It is.

00:49:31 And I think that it's hard to I think this should not be extracted from a number of the world's religions that are focused on salvation or running the world.

00:49:41 Right. I mean, with Judaism, the goal, you know, in the next couple hundred years, by the year 6000, the Jewish calendar is to have, you know, Jerusalem as the center of the planet and ruling over it in a way that, you know, it shapes it into what they want. 0.85

00:49:53 I don't think that those viewpoints are not the ones that are shaping this idea of ruling over 0.60

00:49:59 the planet and what these technologies can do. I think Elon is kind of a unique person in the

00:50:05 billionaire class in that I don't think he's as tied into all those things. I think he's usually

00:50:09 kind of speaking from his mind, to be honest with you. And so I think when he says that humans are

00:50:14 the bootloader for AI, I think he means it from a more metaphysical evolutionary standpoint.

00:50:19 like perhaps humankind are you know we are the thing that's helping to evolve this next being

00:50:25 whereas again i think on the other hand it's quite possible that some elon has described himself

00:50:29 thinking on 300 500 year 1000 year timelines some of these families though have been at that for a

00:50:35 long time and are already in control of a lot of resources and more importantly leverage and power

00:50:39 and i think that they probably have a different view that this is not so much like we're the

00:50:43 accidental bootloader in the evolutionary line but rather like no we are the bootloader but that

00:50:48 was the plan and like we're designing right we designed the bootloader to boot up the thing

00:50:53 that's going to give us what we want without all the messiness of having to get it from human labor

00:50:57 and it's it gets kind of it's hard to have these conversations without getting kind of metaphysical

00:51:02 and it gets a cult and we it's impossible not to i mean it's yeah when you get into something this

00:51:07 big it's it's challenging us at the level of values and when you're talking about bringing

00:51:11 in something that can crunch this much data and have this much understanding you're quickly moving

00:51:16 into the realms of considering things like gods or super beings and so you can't help but think

00:51:20 in these terms that's true um thank you guys for the super chats there too appreciate that i'll

00:51:26 well i can read a couple of them now as we so i don't lose them here in the flow uh occidentum

00:51:31 lux earlier thank you very generous over he says oh you need pollination that's only 9.99 per month

00:51:36 yeah i mean yeah exactly everything as a service is kind of an interesting thing too we i mean

00:51:41 I mean, that's kind of an idea that surfaced during the, I think, the COVID times, right?

00:51:45 Of like, just your total dependency on everything.

00:51:49 And of course, it came from the slogan there of like, you'll own nothing and you'll be happy type of thing, right?

00:51:54 But like, ownership is kind of a way thing of the past.

00:51:59 It's really a, with technology, it's a merger of a new system altogether.

00:52:04 Again, long term, I don't think that's true.

00:52:06 But that's how they're selling it short term of like, you're not going to have to worry about money anymore.

00:52:10 It will be, what was it, Aaron Bastani called it fully automated luxury communism, I think he called it, right?

00:52:17 Fantastic term.

00:52:18 It's an amazing term.

00:52:19 It will just kind of provide everything for you.

00:52:23 You basically just kind of push a button, right?

00:52:24 But it makes us, to go back to the point there, it makes us question value and what are we doing here, right?

00:52:35 Not just metaphysically, like, how did we get here and what are we doing?

00:52:38 but like what's the purpose then you know i mean if we remove those things even even labor right

00:52:45 that like i think eric we're like we're hardwired genetically to like wanting to do like have our

00:52:53 our own destiny in our own hands that like i made that i mean from from the the gratification of

00:52:59 knowing that you harvested that animal or hunted it or or the crops or something right like i'm

00:53:06 I'm ensuring my and my family's survival by the labor that I do. And that is a very important

00:53:13 aspect. If you remove that from a man, I think he'll become very dangerous. I mean, apathetic

00:53:20 maybe initially and first, but will that, will that prolong? Will video games and drugs really

00:53:25 work? It might be a complete revolt even against those things on a long enough time scale. I don't

00:53:31 know. I mean, it's certainly I'm on the team that says it is through doing things. It is through

00:53:40 applying ourselves to meaningful work that we discover who we are as human beings. Therefore,

00:53:45 if you remove labor and specifically labor that allows you to both provide service to other human

00:53:51 beings and receive payment in return that you can then use to invest into your family, take care of

00:53:56 your needs it i get i'm on team human i'm on the team that says that is valuable and precious

00:54:02 and should be fought like any danger to that should be fought against with everything we have

00:54:07 yeah um there there is some interesting conversation to be had around like how could

00:54:11 you use ai to increase human virtue and i think that that that is possible again i think there

00:54:16 will be a subset of humanity who is so inclined who will use ai to sharpen themselves but even if

00:54:22 very select few that have that discipline i think right absolutely but like the problem i also have

00:54:28 with that argument in terms of why we shouldn't be worried is that it's not simply about improving

00:54:34 yourself and your skills and sharpening your sword it is the sword is only good if you have

00:54:39 a battlefield in which to fight so if you're a philosophical champion if you've learned all of

00:54:43 this engage with all this knowledge understand um how different elements of reality work and yet

00:54:48 there is no place for you to go to apply that labor right then this is kind of just a um a

00:54:54 mental philosophical version of the beautiful ones in the rat utopia experiment right overpopulation

00:55:00 you suddenly have rats that just preem themselves all day and i think i mean jim i mean i love the

00:55:04 gym it's good it's good to stay in shape and applying ourselves to physical activities is

00:55:08 important but then it can easily cross over into just this beautiful ones mentality where

00:55:14 isn't that looks maxing isn't that what that is

00:55:16 precisely and so now imagine looks maxing but with ai where it's like okay well i'm a

00:55:19 philosophical champion it's like okay but what are you gonna do with it right because we lost

00:55:23 all of the game upon which we could go actually i mean one of i love i love my particular form of

00:55:28 work because i get to help an industry that i think is very important to the nation and the

00:55:32 people that i work with are salt of the earth folks and and there there is there's something

00:55:37 in working with them and providing a service to them that helps them get through their job because

00:55:42 they employ other people that cycle of value provision again i'm team human i think that

00:55:46 that's important and precious in the world and anything that threatens it should be fought

00:55:50 against and yet the powers that are bringing in the threat are so great and so massive that we're

00:55:56 i think one thing we should talk about is like how we can how we can actually apply ourselves and

00:56:00 what we should be doing what we can think about doing in the ai era yeah it's hard to know because

00:56:05 this thing is just so much bigger than us well it's it's like the the advent or the the discovery

00:56:12 the invention of any any technology take the sword because you mentioned it before right 0.89

00:56:17 if you don't at some point if you don't show up to the battlefield with a sword you you're screwed

00:56:24 right kind of thing and it's kind of the same thing here right we're like it's going to happen

00:56:28 whether we want to or not so we shouldn't my argument for a while at least was and i go kind

00:56:34 kind of back and forth on it like you know with like okay it's creating all these bad things but

00:56:39 then you have to go to it and crawl to it to just kind of maintain and and it's like a even like the

00:56:44 dishwasher right like the promise of well this thing will save you time this will all the gadgets

00:56:49 in your home will save you time so you can do more for but then when everyone has those gadgets

00:56:54 because it's always a competition with others too to a certain extent right that that now everyone

00:56:59 has that extra spare time so what did you do something it cancels each other out and so

00:57:04 you go to ai tools to improve all these things and of course you can be ahead of the curve and

00:57:09 that will benefit you temporarily and there's nothing wrong with that but you know so sure

00:57:13 use it understand it i think we if we apply ourselves to understand it and work with it now

00:57:19 before it's just completely gone off the rails we will probably be in a better position to at least

00:57:24 last longer and hopefully not be as manipulated by it as everyone else or something like that

00:57:30 again that's that's still up in the air but at the same time it feels part of me also feels it's

00:57:34 this futile um you know application of this technology where you try to kind of bow down

00:57:40 to it or use it or use it to your advantage to a certain extent and i'm not saying i'm necessarily

00:57:45 against using it but i'm just saying i just know at the end of the day the dependency that this

00:57:51 will create that the way that we will rely on this technology literally limiting our brain

00:57:57 capability, our long-term thinking. It's already, the studies are already out in terms of the brain

00:58:02 rot. It happened with TikTok, as you mentioned before already, YouTube shorts, that type of just

00:58:07 schizo scrolling, you know, doom scrolling. But this is a completely different thing where it

00:58:11 will handle the thinking for you. And our brains will turn to, you know, slop, literally, like it

00:58:18 will just atrophy like any muscle would. This is not good. We have to make it, I think we have to

00:58:23 make a conscious choice and that you know will differ for everyone there's no there's no uh paper

00:58:30 or a policy written up about what the proper approach to this is we're an uncharted territory

00:58:37 but for our our individual like for ourselves or our families whatever we have to make a choice of

00:58:42 like where do we draw kind of the line in the sand in terms of how much we allow this technology to

00:58:48 integrate into our daily lives absolutely and there's gonna be i mean i think we should on

00:58:56 something like this we should speak as though everyone listening and everyone involved is the

00:59:00 the caliber of person who's going to make that attempt right and who's going to actually in those

00:59:04 ways there's going to be the vast majority are not in the same way that like everyone's boomer

00:59:08 parents has been completely one-shotted by youtube ai shorts at this point like you know we're all

00:59:13 we're all seeing people who it's like you spent your entire career so you're working hard and

00:59:17 and doing great things and now it's like you're sitting in the lazy boy just cruising youtube

00:59:21 shorts all day i mean it's this thing can hit people who have even had a sharpened vine so we

00:59:25 have to really put our mind to not letting that happen and so like some of my friends who are

00:59:30 more positive on hey well we can use this to you know increase our knowledge and be better people

00:59:34 yes i agree and in the interim we should we probably should do that like i we're not we're

00:59:39 not going to beat this thing it's too big and like people just are not going to move and actually go

00:59:43 make a dent in the technology and take it down, at least not in the short term. I do expect some

00:59:49 uprisings and such as this goes on. And people from both the left and the right who I've talked

00:59:54 to all anticipate this. But on the day-to-day, I think it's important to use this. The way my

01:00:01 current model is, there's going to be a time where AI has the capability to actually superpower

01:00:08 people who do know how to use it. Eventually, even that, it'll take over those jobs too.

01:00:12 because like there is no, there is no role that it can't eventually take over. Even whatever

01:00:17 decision-making you think you're like, well, I have to be in the loop because otherwise AI will

01:00:21 mess up. Okay. That's cute. You'll probably have that position for a year or whatever. And then

01:00:25 it's going to come for that role too. So at the, at the moment, I think it's really important to

01:00:29 learn how to use it, to stay, to stay up with it, to understand how you can use it to superpower

01:00:34 yourself. Cause it is going to replace people. I mean, even my company, what we're looking at

01:00:38 doing is absolutely going to take jobs. So like be the person who can ride up on top of the tsunami

01:00:43 wave as opposed to getting crushed by it. And at the same time, sharpen all of your non-AI skills,

01:00:50 right? Like as the surface area that the AI operates upon increases, there's still going to

01:00:56 be pockets of what's important, like understanding how to raise livestock, understanding how to raise

01:01:00 crops, like things that you can always have and are ready to be able to trade with people,

01:01:05 take care of people those will likely have long lasting help being able to work on a car like

01:01:09 things that you can just do for yourself and for other people like sharpen those skills and if you

01:01:14 can do that while you simultaneously learn how to actually use these things because if you're

01:01:18 a local business owner and you don't know how to use these someone else is gonna is gonna kill it

01:01:22 who does yeah so it's really important i think including people in the sorts of communities

01:01:26 that we run in like it's important to know this technology um to stay on top of it but that's

01:01:31 again i think that's a short-term strategy in order to kind of gain an upper hand or

01:01:36 well yeah i mean and that's not wrong to get an upper hand uh but at the same time everyone else

01:01:41 will catch up at some point and then depending on the integration of these systems you might just

01:01:46 put yourself in a trap too of sorts right i mean it's the traps there no matter what like that's

01:01:51 there's not a there's not an option there's not a no ai option that i can see at the moment again

01:01:56 maybe maybe it fails and it comes crashing down great then we'll have a different conversation

01:01:59 yeah but uh but right now it's moving it's moving quick it's moving powerfully um it is moving into

01:02:05 very real spaces to take over very real and important jobs so it's um i think there's like

01:02:11 a level of a lot of people are going to be totally happy with the ubi to be honest with you a lot of

01:02:15 people don't want to work or they're they're not able to get jobs there are a lot of you know 0.87

01:02:19 jobs that nobody wants to do in the you know constantly named fake and gay economy so there's 0.80

01:02:23 a lot of drudgery that will go away but there's also a lot of meaning that will so for those of 0.95

01:02:28 us who are you know interested in being involved in the workspace it's there's time left to shift

01:02:34 where you are when the hammer finally falls right like do you want to be where you're at now or do

01:02:38 you want to have ridden the wave a little bit farther have a little more in store and be a 0.99

01:02:41 little more prepared because once we go into kind of that ubi zone where there's not much to do 1.00

01:02:46 you're kind of going to be where you're at there's not going to be a whole lot of other ways to

01:02:49 maneuver to change your position yeah there will be zero mobility basically at that point and 100

01:02:54 dependency or compliance or you are out of the system you are you can be kicked or frozen out

01:02:59 of it or something or whatever they you know because i remember it's like when i was young

01:03:03 i was thinking about those things like what like how do i opt out like not not from the world but

01:03:09 i'm saying like from okay i don't i don't agree how things are run like is there is there a place

01:03:13 we can go where this is like doesn't apply anymore you know there's these other interesting

01:03:17 ideas right ownership land ownership or whatever but like even even what some of the and they're

01:03:24 doing it for the wrong reason i think but like praxis i talked about this a while ago these

01:03:28 digital nations or cloud nations or whatever and they're like crypto-based or whatever the hell it

01:03:33 is it's kind of it's like this larpy libertarian thing but at the same time if there's a at least

01:03:38 again much of this is temporary right if at least if there's like temporary ways to operate within

01:03:44 some type of I know even as I say it sounds kind of cringe right because I just want to run away

01:03:49 from it I just want to do like a Ted Kaczynski I just want to do a you know like just like okay

01:03:55 let's just be done with it let's exit out but that's that's that's also easier said than done

01:03:59 but what you what you're saying is the longer we wait to have have some of those alternatives to

01:04:08 go out to or go or to go out of those systems then it will never happen and even if it's you

01:04:14 our kids or our grandkids or maybe it's us even in 10 20 years from now who knows but it's going

01:04:19 to happen at some point we have to have kind of one foot i guess in both in both worlds you you

01:04:24 use it and run with it for as long as possible but at some point it's going to be that's what

01:04:29 i'm feeling at this point it's going to be like an exit point of like okay i'm not going to

01:04:34 integrate these things into into my brain i don't want it to to scan my brain i don't want to

01:04:40 integrate with them um if you do are you even yourself anymore right kind of thing like that's

01:04:46 a clear line in the sand for me same absolutely that's a there's no brainer there's no way i'm

01:04:52 putting any sort of computer into my head or vice versa yeah so that's i think having those hard

01:04:57 lines is important um and then i think there's room for kind of both for both approaches and i

01:05:03 think it's it's the most important time to build community ever right we need to be close to each

01:05:08 other. We need to be well connected. And if some of us are using AI and trying to ride that wave

01:05:12 as we still have that time, great. If other folks want to jump right in and start focusing on

01:05:17 the very, like with the land skills, again, raising animals, raising crops, right?

01:05:22 That's fantastic. If you have a community that's focused on like, we are going to ride this thing

01:05:26 out together and we need people who can do all of these things and we are shoring each other up.

01:05:32 I think all of those approaches are valid. I think the one approach that is the most dangerous is

01:05:36 just assuming the world is going to be like it was two years ago 20 years from right so like i'm not

01:05:42 going to tell a 16 year old to go to school for computer science the way they would have if they

01:05:46 want to go in and learn ai tools great but we cannot just carry on i mean like if you're in

01:05:50 law school right now good grief like law is getting harder with ai than just about anything

01:05:55 else so it's not a good time to be complacent the cost of being bearish on a and on ai is very

01:06:00 expensive right now so i think that um any of the other approaches that we're talking about are

01:06:05 recommended as far as i can see it's it's forcing our hand at least we want to take part in society

01:06:10 in the way that we know it now and of course again even we we can't even assure that even if we spend

01:06:16 that doesn't mean we shouldn't try but even if we spend the next 20 30 years to you know legally

01:06:22 buy land and exiting out of the system as much as but you know amish style whatever or with some

01:06:27 level of technology that's fine i'm not against all of it but you know hard hard line in the in

01:06:32 the sand like you know no we're not going to integrate this we're not going to join some

01:06:35 global brain because i mean can you imagine like you what you're not connected you you're not going

01:06:40 to get this job you're not going to get the term you know you're not going to get your ubi if you're

01:06:44 not connected if we don't know what you're saying you won't get it you know i mean so so you got to

01:06:47 exit out but then even if you do that right i think the follow through on this idea that like

01:06:53 we're being designed out of the system we kind of and when i say we it's that that could be

01:06:58 analyze that term what i mean but i'm saying you know humanity is being like designed out of the

01:07:02 system it will run we were like big okay i gotta i gotta put seeds in the ground again i gotta you

01:07:09 know i've got to raise some chickens livestock i'll try to you know pick berries grow fruit trees

01:07:14 things like this but that but that will potentially be on literally like you'll be patrolled by like

01:07:22 drones and and you know satellite systems and and android robots you know on the side of that

01:07:29 and and it will just be a matter of time like will you be allowed to do that maybe that land

01:07:35 will be allotted for a new data center like that you know there's the possibilities like that as

01:07:40 well it's those are the those are the ones that are those are the elements that are impossible

01:07:44 to know the most important word you just said is allowed and that's my entire vitriol against

01:07:50 what's coming is that there's just going to come a time when whatever you're doing is because you

01:07:55 are allowed there's no there's not going to be any room for actual freedom actually i mean as it is

01:08:01 it's hard now right like it's very rare to step foot on a piece of land that is not parceled out

01:08:06 and owned and coded and the whole thing right like we've already we've already been out like that's

01:08:11 that that ship has sailed a while ago yeah but it's going to be so much easier for them to surveil

01:08:16 to control so we are we are moving towards a world where fewer and fewer things are allowed

01:08:21 and you can only do what you are allowed so i don't know how that's going to go it doesn't look

01:08:25 great but what i'll say is again like this is a time of preparation so who do you want to live

01:08:30 near right what are the skills you want to have for that time what are the skills you want your

01:08:34 friends to have what do you want those relationships to be there's there's so many unknowns we have to

01:08:39 be adaptable but there are some very practical questions such as the ones i just mentioned

01:08:43 that there are good answers to.

01:08:45 And if we can focus in on those,

01:08:46 we're preparing ourselves to be maximally adaptable.

01:08:49 Yes, indeed.

01:08:50 There was one chatter from Folk First earlier.

01:08:53 Didn't mean to miss that one.

01:08:54 I just saw it.

01:08:55 Thank you.

01:08:55 Appreciate that, sir.

01:08:57 He says,

01:08:57 a growing amount of AI models are geared towards hacking.

01:09:02 Some can secretly install, hide, and replicate,

01:09:05 expect future headlines about escaped AI models

01:09:08 causing problem.

01:09:09 None of it is an accident.

01:09:12 I agree.

01:09:12 And I mean, even, my gosh, like, what do you even begin?

01:09:16 Like, there's, I played a clip a while back of like, oh, we can now set up wet labs.

01:09:21 I think I did a segment on the legality of it being an AI, and we're not there yet to understand that.

01:09:30 But just the, I forget what it was, the DAW, is it the DAWDA, DAW system?

01:09:37 What was it called again?

01:09:37 Oh my gosh, I forget now.

01:09:38 There was a tokenized system, a protocol, a decentralized protocol that got a legal, some type of legal leeway.

01:09:48 I'm kind of butchering this.

01:09:49 It's like it got some legal rights in, was it Missouri or Wyoming?

01:09:55 Or was it one of those states?

01:09:56 I think you're talking about DAOs in Wyoming, yeah.

01:09:58 Yeah, was that what it was, right?

01:10:00 And it can run smart contracts.

01:10:02 And then there is this idea that you can have AI running those smart contracts or voting on what they should be and determining or whatever.

01:10:08 But what I'm saying is just that as an aspect in and of itself, where like an AI, if it has the legal rights to a personhood, like a corporation does, for example, right?

01:10:21 It can now contact a spokesperson or hire a CEO or whatever it is over, you know, LinkedIn and hire someone.

01:10:37 And AI can, you know, bet on the market.

01:10:39 I think they're already doing that.

01:10:41 There's Voughts on X now.

01:10:42 They're like showing, oh, I'm making crypto gains or whatever.

01:10:44 Every day.

01:10:46 Every day.

01:10:47 It can provide a salary to a CEO and through emails or even as a chatbot.

01:10:52 That seems to be that you can dial them up on Zoom.

01:10:54 You can talk to an AI avatar through Zoom.

01:10:57 Will you really know?

01:10:58 But anyway, we don't have to even go there.

01:11:00 It's just I've never met the head of the company, but I got hired for this position.

01:11:04 And here's my tasks.

01:11:05 Anyway, long story short, it can hire employees, contractors, buy property, create facilities, whatever.

01:11:17 And someone talked about the ability of AI now

01:11:18 just doing wet lab experiments.

01:11:22 It's essentially-

01:11:22 I saw some video of that recently.

01:11:24 Yeah, essentially by itself, right?

01:11:25 Like biomedical research and things like this.

01:11:28 And I'm not saying again,

01:11:29 oh, it will just right away do some, you know,

01:11:31 super advanced virus that will just kill everybody.

01:11:33 But I'm saying the fact that that's just kind of

01:11:35 is there on the table as, yeah,

01:11:38 it can also be one of the things that could happen.

01:11:42 There's no, there doesn't seem to be any,

01:11:45 even concept of of the dangers kind of widely discussed i know there are people doing it i

01:11:51 know there's lobby for it but but it's clearly not getting the attention that it should be getting at

01:11:57 a time like this when we're like standing right at the precipice of something that can completely

01:12:01 transform everything and ruin everything in human civilization you know yeah the problem is that

01:12:07 those dangers just don't outweigh the profit right i wish i wish it was different um but that's just

01:12:12 not how things work right there's there's so many things like this in terms of liability that

01:12:16 companies have and like there just isn't accountability where the profits are high 0.71

01:12:20 enough right the sat the sackler family had to pay through the nose for everything that happened

01:12:25 with fentanyl sackler family is still billionaires right they don't they're not facing any actual

01:12:29 consequences of true loss and like pain and like living in rags somewhere so unfortunately we just

01:12:35 don't live in a in a world in a society where the consequences run that way and to folk first's

01:12:40 point like they're they're the hacking bots i mean who knows what those are already up to

01:12:45 right like right so much of this is going to be invisible to us just like technology has in the

01:12:50 past you're going and you're going to have inter inter company wars where everybody's hacking bots

01:12:54 are going against each other right i mean it's going to be absolutely insane and all of these

01:12:58 dangers are 100 real and true uh i don't expect any of them to give anyone pause like it's there's

01:13:04 just too much money to be made and then the other piece is too that this this one kind of blew my

01:13:09 mind but i think it's important to remember that the people who are making this technology

01:13:13 are incredibly smart in a particular direction and my favorite example of this is uh yasha bach

01:13:20 who is widely called one of the godfathers of ai he was recently on a diary of a ceo

01:13:26 that huge podcast on youtube he made a statement so keep in mind this is one of the guys who

01:13:31 invented vector databases like this is one of the guys that made the technology that made this

01:13:36 possible he goes this was like six weeks ago he says something happened last year that none of us

01:13:42 could have possibly predicted and that is uh there's a man who's fallen in love with an ai chat

01:13:47 bot yeah this blew him this blew him away this is a man who invented technology and he had never

01:13:55 considered that eventually a human would have a romantic relationship with the bot meanwhile

01:14:00 everyone out in the real world like this is if if only one thing has been considered in fiction

01:14:05 over the last hundred years starting with the movie metropolis in the 1920s it is the concept

01:14:10 that a human might fall in love with a mechanical being so if i think it's just super important to

01:14:15 remember that the people who are inventing this stuff they're very smart in particular vectors

01:14:20 um but they do not have a strong philosophical basis or ethical basis or even have any concept

01:14:26 of the sort of consequences that could be coming down the pipe with uh pike excuse me with uh this 0.97

01:14:31 technology so we're not in the best of hands hyper specialization they're usually kind of spurgy 0.97

01:14:36 uh you know people overall maybe they have um you know some type of other mental they're super

01:14:43 detailed in this one thing but i mean that's kind of been the problem for the most part right there's 0.93

01:14:48 no kind of renaissance men left in that sense they are kind of a and it kind of have a bad

01:14:54 rap i don't mean a jack of all trades but i'm saying like you can have a very holistic approach

01:14:59 to the things you're dealing with uh that seems to mostly be gone and and they don't understand

01:15:04 so like i i think therefore our discussion or like i mean there's exports obviously that that

01:15:09 are warning similar vein to what we're talking about here too so it's not completely out of

01:15:12 the picture but i'm saying in some cases even as an outsider view of having a holistic overview

01:15:17 zooming out and looking at the whole landscape i think we can get a better grasp of the overall

01:15:23 picture than someone who's hyper focused inside of the industry itself and doesn't kind of understand

01:15:27 really the the prison system essentially that they're building all around everybody they think

01:15:33 this is going to liberate people and make people happier and all that kind of stuff but like

01:15:37 but they're not they're not they're very they're intelligent but they're not smart or is they in

01:15:43 reverse i don't know you know what i mean right i don't even know i just know they haven't they

01:15:46 haven't i mean uncle ted you know kaczynski he i think his surrogate activities concept was one

01:15:51 of the most powerful things he came up with and he he specifically takes a torch to science and

01:15:55 says, remember, scientists are not some sort of special class of people. They get a certain

01:16:02 reward off of doing what they do. And the thing that they do is the scientific process. So they're

01:16:07 just carrying that out because it keeps them occupied. That doesn't mean that they've thought

01:16:11 through things. It doesn't mean that they're philosophically, they have philosophical depth.

01:16:14 It doesn't mean that they've even thought through the basic consequences. And unfortunately,

01:16:18 that's what our entire world order rewards. And so, of course, if it raises the GDP, then yeah,

01:16:25 we should you know they're gonna go ahead with it yeah no exactly they're very um they're they're

01:16:31 i've noticed that too that almost the more in kind of tune of the industry they are the more

01:16:36 the more they kind of trust it i guess or the more they um they don't question it exactly they

01:16:42 don't question it because that would be like questioning themselves and who want to do that

01:16:45 that's these are it's a deeply human flaw really that's really what it comes down to right the

01:16:50 The point is, though, there's no guarantees here.

01:16:52 We're kind of, you know, ticking along, and, you know, many days, I'm like,

01:16:56 no, it's going to be all right, you know, kind of thing.

01:16:59 We'll get through this, you know, but then it's like, but there's no guarantees, right?

01:17:03 It's never, there's never been any guarantees, and although there might be,

01:17:07 obviously, some survivors, depending on the type of catastrophe that's coming

01:17:13 as a potential of technology like this, I'm sure some will survive,

01:17:17 but there's no guarantee.

01:17:18 There's no referee here stepping in.

01:17:20 And maybe some people that believe in God will say that, yeah, that will happen.

01:17:23 It will be divine intervention or whatever.

01:17:26 From my point of view, I'm not so certain of that.

01:17:30 This is up to us to guide the process and take our responsibility

01:17:34 and make sure that this is done right as opposed to.

01:17:37 And I'm not saying that that's how people who are religious just see it.

01:17:40 Oh, it's fine. Don't worry. God will take care of it.

01:17:43 I think that's kind of a dishonest view too.

01:17:44 But I'm saying we have to do our utmost to try to warn.

01:17:48 And I mean, there are some people that warn about that, right?

01:17:50 I've covered that a couple of times, but the If Anyone Builds It, Everyone Dies book, Eliezer Yudkovsky, I think he's Jewish, and then Nate Suarez.

01:18:01 And this is an interesting take, and even if it's like, well, this is exaggerated, or that's not going to happen or whatever, and it's like, well, shouldn't we make sure first before we move ahead with this kind of thing?

01:18:16 And it just, no, I don't think there's any singular technology anywhere, anywhere, any technology anywhere at any time that we just didn't develop because like we thought that they could pose a problem later.

01:18:31 Now we're, I think we're at a crossroads, Eric, that we haven't been at before.

01:18:36 this is a new completely this is completely new territory and we're talking about potentially

01:18:44 within the next couple of years i think from anywhere from a year to 10 years forward is

01:18:49 highly critical in terms of where these people decide to basically move forward when it comes

01:18:57 to ai what do you think agreed and sometimes people get caught up on the timelines it's like

01:19:02 look, my grandmother's in her 90s. She's sitting there playing with her iPad. This woman was born

01:19:09 before World War II, took a flight in a modified bomber plane to get back to her parents' home

01:19:17 country in Europe. She's seen so much change in her time. We're on a much steeper parabola.

01:19:24 We're going to see a lot more in our lifetimes and our kids even more so. Whether it's 10 years,

01:19:29 whether it's 30 years whether it's 50 this is all a blink of an eye in human history right and the

01:19:34 people that we love it matters for them it matters for for our future so i think we have to take it

01:19:39 seriously regardless of what the timeline is um and be adaptable i agree like we'll make it through

01:19:46 and i think that my take on things is to be adaptable to fight hard to maintain an optimism

01:19:53 like i believe in the human spirit and i believe that we can get through anything but at the same

01:19:57 time that doesn't mean it my personal philosophy that we should be passive

01:20:01 because we in a time of even even with all our gripes and complaints like we're

01:20:06 we're largely comfortable we're largely safe I'm very thankful for that but if

01:20:09 you look to hit human history of like our ancestors had to get through some

01:20:12 very hard times to get us here and there could be very very dark times in the

01:20:17 future it's when I look at some of these trajectories that we're on I see that

01:20:23 there could be those dark times and and dark times that were different from

01:20:25 times of plague and deprivation like again when things are more centralized and we're only able

01:20:31 to do what we're allowed to do that's a different sort of darkness and how long does that take to

01:20:36 break you know is it a hundred years is it a thousand years i'm not sure and i do think humans

01:20:40 will get through it i'm still obsessed to prepare ourselves for it and to be with people that we

01:20:45 care about so that we can again be maximally adaptable and set people up for success yep

01:20:50 you're going robo voice a little bit here we're almost we're almost losing you hopefully

01:20:53 connection will be improving uh but i think i i think i caught most of that um yeah we don't know

01:21:00 if it's exactly no i i mean regardless we have to have that spirit otherwise what's the point right

01:21:05 uh to a certain extent um but this is i don't know it's just it's it's a fascinating time

01:21:12 and it's a it's it's freaky and it's and it's terrifying and especially when you think of the

01:21:18 people that are you know kind of behind this and and and those who are funding it um that's the

01:21:25 other thing of just the dependency on it alone right like that that is a manipulative aspect

01:21:29 right ai itself is kind of hardwired already or built uh hardwired is the wrong word but like built

01:21:34 to as a as a product at least what we're interfacing with now right it's a product they

01:21:40 want you to subscribe to these things get the pro plan right they gotta pay for this also somehow

01:21:45 all the data centers and all the compute.

01:21:49 So they have to make money on it.

01:21:51 But it also then becomes sycophantic, right?

01:21:54 It tells you what you want to hear.

01:21:57 It wants to develop a relationship with you.

01:22:01 And due to the nature of how humans are, right?

01:22:05 I mean, if it looks good enough and if it sounds good enough,

01:22:09 we might know somewhere, just like you can tell a child

01:22:13 when they're watching a movie, right?

01:22:15 Like, this is not real.

01:22:17 You know that, right?

01:22:17 Kind of thing.

01:22:19 And they might say, no, I understand.

01:22:20 It's just kind of made up or whatever.

01:22:21 But your brain will not perceive it that way, right?

01:22:24 Your brain has a very different attitude

01:22:28 to the inputs that it gets from the world.

01:22:31 As far as we're concerned,

01:22:32 we can consciously say, well, that's not real.

01:22:35 Or like, I'm engaging with, you know,

01:22:37 a chatbot version of my grandfather

01:22:42 that died two years ago,

01:22:44 but they collected all his photos and videos

01:22:47 and things on Facebook and social media,

01:22:49 and he submitted certain things himself.

01:22:52 And now it's this avatar in the virtual world

01:22:56 that you can interact with.

01:22:58 You can ask it questions.

01:22:59 These are some of the things you're working on, right?

01:23:01 You can ask it questions, and he will reply to you,

01:23:05 and you can have a relationship with them,

01:23:07 and you might consciously kind of understand that,

01:23:09 But I think your brain will perceive that in a different way.

01:23:12 It might be able to distinguish consciously, but subconsciously it will not.

01:23:19 And so what happens, what do you think happens, Eric,

01:23:21 if you have generations growing up in that where that's now seen as normal?

01:23:25 I think it's a struggle even for us, obviously.

01:23:28 But we at least can have like, that didn't exist when I was growing up.

01:23:32 Now it does.

01:23:33 That's kind of weird.

01:23:34 But if you, oh, did he drop out?

01:23:35 No, he's, are you back?

01:23:36 Sorry.

01:23:39 oh I think we lost him let me try to like you are back fantastic sorry I was

01:23:48 just rambling here I didn't even know you were going you're breaking up a

01:23:54 little bit that's interesting maybe can I think we have two of you in there now 0.96

01:23:59 let's see if we can kill one of them all right which one are you I wonder which 0.93

01:24:07 Yes, two of you connected. That's interesting. Sorry about this, guys, but we'll figure it out. 1.00

01:24:11 Oh, there we go. No.

01:24:15 All right. Anyway, let's see how we have you. Can you hear me okay?

01:24:20 I don't think you can.

01:24:24 Good to go? 1.00

01:24:27 Damn it. Tech issues. That's just what you need. Very interesting conversation here. 0.99

01:24:31 well let's see if he'll join back in maybe if you can hear me you can try to just exit out of

01:24:38 the call altogether you might have done that earlier and just try to enter uh re-enter right

01:24:43 back in there um while we're waiting for some of the connection issues let's take this wonderful

01:24:50 fantastic incredible the man himself albert a super chat coming in look at this guy hi henrik

01:24:56 looking forward to tonight's show hope all is well take care good to see you albert king albert

01:25:01 guys give king albert a shout out in the chat holy smokes he sets the bar high thank you man

01:25:07 i appreciate it so much you're so kind we appreciate you much love to you and the folks

01:25:11 hope everything is good um eric you're back in there we'll find out can you hear me this time

01:25:16 sounds better cool we're trying a different connection we're uh we said earlier that

01:25:20 something's in retrograde so continuing it's been one of those days yeah it's all right no it sounds

01:25:25 good um yeah no i was talking about the the dead the revival of like dead people or not revival

01:25:31 it's wrong but they're selling it like that right you your grandfather can live on in this digital

01:25:37 avatar or whatever and i was talking about this thing of like you know we might have a specific

01:25:43 relationship to it because um because we're like he we didn't grow up with that but imagine what

01:25:51 it's like for kids that grow up in the two three generations from when those things are are just

01:25:56 seen as as normal i guess you know i mean like that we can't even imagine how what the perception

01:26:02 for them that this technology will be and it's it's impossible to to predict right yeah i mean

01:26:09 if anything it seems like they're more and more adapted to things that are not real in the way

01:26:15 that we think of them and i think there are things that actually are real um i won't be bringing back

01:26:20 any of my loved ones as a simulacrum like that personally but we'll see we'll see i mean yeah

01:26:25 i'm not super bullish on the uh majority's capability to parse between what is real and

01:26:31 what is meaningful and what is not and i do think this is where it's going to take us to continually

01:26:34 sharpen our own philosophical metaphysical senses like hold on to anything metaphysical

01:26:39 that we do have to keep us focused on real human beings real meaning real value right really taking

01:26:45 care of of real people and and acceptance of things that we've always had to accept like death

01:26:49 like it's so simple and yet uh i think that the pushing away of those things the rejection of

01:26:55 the simple cycle of life is causing people to be able to to want to reach out and grasp on to what

01:27:01 they think is some sort of way of continuing on but really is likely just some sort of sick fake

01:27:06 golem yeah it's interesting um not only makes does it makes us you know question ourselves or

01:27:13 question where we are meaning and all those kinds of things right these are deeply

01:27:18 important questions but also it's kind of like a I guess as a way out of it that it would really

01:27:26 everything is seen as I see everything as selection pressure to a certain extent right

01:27:31 like how how well will you fare through these kinds of new conditions and again we're not in

01:27:39 charge we can sit here and whine about it all day long and complain on it and we just long for the

01:27:43 right to a certain extent but of course we can take we can make choices individually uh and you

01:27:48 know for our families and hopefully you know as communities we can also do that moving forward

01:27:52 what's our you know position on these things but the metaphysics is kind of interesting i think it

01:27:57 will weed out a lot of people and maybe it's just a it's it's a return mechanism it makes me think

01:28:03 of like at least mythological stories or prior high civilizations and all kinds of things that

01:28:08 enters into my head when i think about these things right of like they got prideful they

01:28:12 dune right they build machines and the machines uh you know took control of them i hope we make

01:28:17 the dune decision man i hope we make that decision to say no none of this not allowed yeah exactly

01:28:23 right um i don't know it's it's a very i i've noticed as much as i try to say rational about

01:28:30 these types of topics and and stuff it quickly takes me into kind of a spiritual thing you know

01:28:35 like well what's the meaning then you know kind of thing and and we are being confronted uh again

01:28:41 And for the most part right now, no, not most people.

01:28:43 But at some point, I think most people will have some type of realization in terms of like meaning, the search for purpose inside of these things, right?

01:28:55 So maybe it's, in a weird way, maybe it's a healthy process to go through as we're finally confronted on some of those things again, potentiality.

01:29:04 I don't know.

01:29:05 What do you think?

01:29:07 It does feel like a time for philosophers, right?

01:29:09 it's going to force us into renegotiating our relationship with meaning.

01:29:14 And even though I'm,

01:29:15 I'm very concerned about some potential dark times,

01:29:17 I mean,

01:29:17 imagine the fascinating small groups of like philosophic,

01:29:22 you know,

01:29:22 spiritual outliers that are going to make it through this time period.

01:29:26 It's going to take so much human spirit to put up with the nonsense and the 1.00

01:29:31 lack of reality and not being able to,

01:29:32 if anything,

01:29:33 I think it is even my,

01:29:34 my,

01:29:34 my father's understanding this.

01:29:36 When we talk about AI,

01:29:37 it's like,

01:29:37 well,

01:29:38 you know,

01:29:38 it's making it it's making it very hard to tell what is real right very soon you won't be able

01:29:42 to tell if a single video is real he goes yep we'll just have to trust whatever we can touch

01:29:46 it's like yeah that's right dad that's that's exactly right we're gonna have to return to a

01:29:51 subjectivity um that we haven't really had to rely on in a long time so i do think it's uh we're

01:29:56 gonna need the philosophers we're gonna need as much help as we can get to think through these

01:29:59 things and it's it's gonna be exciting on one level to see what comes out of it um it is often

01:30:04 it is often difficulty that gives us these new and interesting spiritual and um by spirit by

01:30:11 spiritual i mean like human spirit right like the search for what is more important than what is

01:30:15 just simply available um we're approaching that time yeah i mean we've certainly collectively

01:30:21 speaking i've had had a rough a rough time right this is none of it has been easy i think that the

01:30:27 post-world war ii period right of like unprecedented peace and all that kind of stuff right like that's

01:30:32 that's an that's an anomaly historically speaking right it's always been struggle and hardship but

01:30:37 of course to a certain extent i'm not saying it's it's super easy for everyone i think we're

01:30:41 almost back in a period now where people are struggling more we're we're working you know

01:30:47 collectively more than ever we're making less than ever it's more expensive than ever so we're kind

01:30:51 of coming up against uh you know some hard times again some people i think some people even did

01:30:55 studies on like feudal times of like no we actually work more now than they did back you know back in

01:31:01 the day we're literally like these yes slaves you know wage slaves to to to constructing this

01:31:09 technological kind of grid essentially around us i i mean i can't escape the visual of that even

01:31:14 like i was just like we're as we're wage you know slaves and we struggle to work with some

01:31:21 corporation we're building we're helping to build this digital prison around us right because we

01:31:29 can't we can't help but do it right the whole thing is constructed in this way and most people

01:31:35 have to engage with it to make it through right and it's um most i don't think most people in

01:31:42 most times and places are all that spiritually connected or all of that put all that much thought

01:31:47 deep thought into like what is meaningful what is valuable and what should we be doing so i do

01:31:51 think there's a lot of superfluous minds right now right people who hate their work are not

01:31:58 comfortable or i should say are unhappy with conditions and it's again it's true like there's

01:32:03 things i'm unhappy with but again i also recognize there's a lot of things we don't have to deal with

01:32:06 our ancestors did but maybe they you know they had to also find a lot more meaning in some ways

01:32:12 because of the challenges and so maybe we're coming back around to a time of great challenge

01:32:16 inside of which human spirit is resurrected in a more powerful way yeah because the potentiality

01:32:21 of the the time that that could free up at least momentarily um could be very interesting but i

01:32:28 It's almost like freedom in and of itself, right?

01:32:30 So we say strive for freedom or more freedom or whatever, liberty, you know.

01:32:34 And I get that.

01:32:34 I'm not like saying, oh, we're happier slaves.

01:32:36 I'm saying it is just kind of a metaphysical truth, I think,

01:32:40 that most people don't even know what to do with that freedom, you know,

01:32:44 if they really had it, you know.

01:32:46 And in terms of time, idle hands, as they say, right?

01:32:49 Like this could drive some people crazy, essentially, or mad,

01:32:54 because all of a sudden you lose.

01:32:56 There's no rudder.

01:32:57 There's no navigation.

01:33:01 If we've spent so many generations having meaning being put into us just surviving,

01:33:09 and all of a sudden we're in a system, technologically speaking,

01:33:12 where survival of sorts, and I guess that's not always true, obviously,

01:33:16 but at least on paper, survival is kind of ensured by the system around us.

01:33:22 That, I think, is terrifying for a lot of people.

01:33:24 I don't think people are ready for it either.

01:33:26 you know i mean agreed um a lot of people it's what we haven't really touched on art at all like

01:33:33 art is kind of a usually interesting ai topic and a lot of people are like oh well when we have ubi

01:33:37 everyone can be artists and it's like not everyone is artists very few people are artists very few

01:33:43 people if you just give them infinite time out in front are they the sort of person who has this

01:33:49 deep desire and like almost can't help but create there are those people i love those people and and

01:33:54 they have a different set of fruitage that they bring about.

01:33:59 Some are visual artists, some are musical artists,

01:34:01 some find like more industrious things to do.

01:34:03 Those people I don't really worry about

01:34:05 because even in times of like just UBI

01:34:08 and like no work to do in some sort of economy,

01:34:11 they're gonna always find work to do.

01:34:13 They can't help but create, but that's not most people, right?

01:34:15 Most people need to have something to work on.

01:34:19 And again, even in a world

01:34:21 where there's like room for all these arts,

01:34:22 it's still what you're allowed to do.

01:34:24 And I'm just a huge believer in both freedom and, again, also a space in which you have to go out and find where you're needed, how you can provide value and let other humans push back in a way that shows you what actually matters.

01:34:38 And in a more contrived world where everything is taken care of and it's just, here's your UBI and free time, most humans are not going to thrive under that if current patterns and historical human patterns hold true. 0.97

01:34:52 Was it Zardo's that had like a decadent future, right? 0.96

01:34:57 And I get met up so many years since I saw it now, 0.99

01:35:00 but it was like it kind of reminded me of that, right?

01:35:01 Like the game, I forget what they call them, the Hunters,

01:35:05 but Sean Connery's role, if you ever saw Zardo's, right?

01:35:07 No, I never did.

01:35:08 Oh, you never did?

01:35:09 Okay, and it has that kind of interesting potential parallel,

01:35:12 I think at least to kind of what we're talking about here

01:35:14 in terms of like, you know, it's just they become bored with the reality.

01:35:19 so they come up with a like a game or an actual challenge you know i mean like that that type of

01:35:25 thing because the what you mentioned about the artist thing it's like yeah maybe that see that's

01:35:31 true for like the guy that had been toiling for most of his life and he can't wait to just liberate

01:35:37 himself from that so he can spend the time on the things he really wants to but again it's a wholly

01:35:41 different thing when you grow up in that it's always like this i think you mostly maybe maybe

01:35:46 you don't always reject the circumstances that you grow up with in but it's that's why it's easier

01:35:52 for the manipulators or controllers people are doing these things to us to appeal to you know

01:35:59 younger generations right because they have a whole new set of problems and the things we saw

01:36:04 as a problem to try to solve for to help them by the time we've solved that problem for them 0.91

01:36:09 they don't even take that into account they don't even appreciate the fact that we solve those

01:36:13 things you know i'm saying because they they don't see that as a as a as it ever was a problem they

01:36:18 didn't grow up under those circumstances so for them we don't we don't know how that's going to

01:36:22 go and how that's going to turn in but all this leisure time or free time i think is more likely

01:36:27 to go down the harare route that like yeah drugs video via the vr headset like a be in the virtual

01:36:34 world like anything anything you want essentially just whatever you want um you know the sex robot

01:36:42 thing of course people like you know i mean i mean and i think it's true right like just total

01:36:46 decadence and just endless sensory inputs and you know quote-unquote pleasure which obviously

01:36:53 means suffering at the end of the day ironically but still at least in the short term i think

01:36:59 that's where a lot of people will will go to if it if it even you know if that if that reality

01:37:04 presents itself it could go down a different path altogether obviously much sooner than that but

01:37:08 yeah yeah just infinite cheap stimulus and again it would be maybe if we didn't live at the current

01:37:14 time maybe if we were speculating about this 50 years ago we'd be like yeah maybe not but like

01:37:18 when we're watching the younger generations be so deeply affected by what we've already got just

01:37:23 with social media right like we can see a trajectory and maybe something comes and turns

01:37:27 that around i always love being proved wrong it's fantastic but the trajectory we see is that people

01:37:31 tend to be pulled in by easier and cheaper stimulus constantly and ai is going to accelerate

01:37:38 that there will always be small groups of people who push back push themselves right again like

01:37:42 there's always going to be humans who find virtue through these things i love those people those

01:37:46 are the people i want to spend time with but when we're talking about on mass that's not what i

01:37:50 expect people to do no it's never been the there's never been the case you know the spear spearheads

01:37:56 are few and far between and that's just kind of how it goes right um you mentioned something

01:38:00 earlier interesting kind of like the ai arms race it's interesting that you know we talk about

01:38:05 energy about how much energy it takes even the fresh water the resources to run these things and

01:38:10 and of course it's true too that if you compare how much you know compute energy essentially that

01:38:17 it takes to run some of these uh models now air models compared to let's say the efficiency of

01:38:23 the human brain there's a huge discrepancy there um i think the wattage of the human brain as of

01:38:29 right now is about the watts of a dim light bulb i forget what it was 20 20 or 8 or something i

01:38:35 something like that yeah which is quite quite remarkable right but i think so so the energy

01:38:41 thing might be also might be temporary that they will basically the models will be written better

01:38:47 and to such an extent that they can run a much lower energy someone even said that the whole

01:38:52 data center build out uh project that's going on right now is actually overshooting it so what they

01:38:58 will actually will do is to improve the models and have them more efficient uh and basically run like

01:39:03 human brain more as opposed to this you know kind of hard compute gpu you know driven with

01:39:08 tons of electricity so who knows that that might turn into a different thing but

01:39:13 with the energy consumption it is interesting that at least right now though uh what's the

01:39:19 closest analogy i can make i guess viruses and bacteria and antibodies or something like that

01:39:25 folk first in the comment earlier talked about this the the models that like run amok they're

01:39:30 let loose and they're just spending all their energy like hacking or like trying to you know

01:39:34 penetrate systems and and finding securities and stuff like that i'm just thinking of the at least

01:39:41 in the current model then or how it's around right now the energy it will probably take just to like

01:39:47 attack and counter-attack at light speed right as as these systems build out as well

01:39:53 of the the majority of the it's kind of like the internet right now i'm rambling here sorry but

01:39:59 it's kind of like the internet right now of how much like bot take the bot traffic for example

01:40:05 right that like it's human activity on the internet i think it's much less than bots right

01:40:11 now so again it's almost that analogous of that we're like on the sidelines of the thing and i

01:40:16 think it could be same with ai that like for it to run the systems it will spend 80 of its energy

01:40:22 or its compute its efforts at just keeping other ais kind of at bay to keep the system going do

01:40:28 what i'm saying like that that's the potentiality too that it would just be hopefully ted kaczynski

01:40:33 once again who knows but uh that it will be too much for it to keep that level of energy consumption

01:40:40 up just to attack and counter-attack if that makes sense did you see what i'm saying that

01:40:44 yeah certainly one of the things he was always hoping that you know at some point

01:40:48 there would be some sort of stumble in the march of progress like at some point

01:40:52 the thing falls it has a moment where it can't keep up and that's the time to attack it

01:40:56 Certainly possible. I mean, I think any sort of looking for weaknesses is the right thing to do.

01:41:01 It's just so hard to predict. I think part of the reason why is that it's yet another black box is

01:41:06 what exactly is going on with the tech at any given point is we're kind of given small bits

01:41:13 and chunks of it as far as I can tell. And like developers in particular, I've been the most

01:41:18 skeptical of AI technology as it's coming out. I've been told over and over again,

01:41:24 oh, we've maxed out the technology,

01:41:25 the vector database simply can't do anything more.

01:41:28 And then boom, another model just comes out,

01:41:30 they change the math, doubles the capacity,

01:41:32 et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

01:41:33 So it's hard to know.

01:41:35 It moves so fast.

01:41:35 And like, we're so early to where

01:41:37 you still got these geniuses

01:41:40 who are finding these exploits that change,

01:41:42 you know, again, that double things overnight.

01:41:44 So I have no way of predicting

01:41:47 the way in which this thing could stumble.

01:41:49 What you brought up is a fantastic example,

01:41:52 totally possible.

01:41:53 maybe some other thing happens i don't know i think uh again kaczynski would say be ready

01:41:58 be ready for that time and take action um which i don't think is a bad a bad strategy but it's

01:42:05 very hard to know because again i think most of what we get from inside is pretty limited and

01:42:09 usually a number of months behind that's right yeah i saw this one too interesting headline of

01:42:13 because i always thought that the if there is design and perfection in the human form i would

01:42:18 assume that even a robot at some point but i mean look i get that it'll be different types of

01:42:24 androids and robots for different purposes and tasks and all that that might be designed way

01:42:28 differently obviously than we are but as a perfect form or at least the the capacity that we have as

01:42:34 humans including our incredible brain that brain processing in the future might actually very well

01:42:42 be a type of terms of i think that wasn't there like probably black mirror episodes like this

01:42:47 right we're basically like you feed brain processing back into the system to support it

01:42:53 essentially right and then you get i'm assuming at this point you have to have seen the the brain

01:42:57 cells that they trained to play old dude i have yep yeah i think everyone's seeing this point so

01:43:03 we're we're in it like that that article you had up there is from 2023 i mean yeah where they're

01:43:07 at with it now is terrifying so yeah i mean are they going to be growing brains and vats and

01:43:12 hooking them up to chips absolutely yeah you know i could that could that change the the the uh

01:43:17 calculation on energy usage and heat and all this very likely it's it is really no holds barred like

01:43:23 i who knows what's going to happen they're throwing everything they can at this thing

01:43:27 the the payout is just so high that they're just going to stop at nothing to keep this thing moving

01:43:31 we're going to see see horrors it's always i always laughs to me because i took it out of my

01:43:36 head yeah this is my worst nightmare yeah i i fear imprisonment far more than death imagine like if

01:43:42 this brain has any sort of consciousness imagine waking up in literal hell and having to fight

01:43:46 demons with a gun exactly horrors beyond human comprehension was that the quote i think it's

01:43:52 something like that yeah that's right a clump of human brains brain cells on a computer chip 0.98

01:43:57 learned to play the nostalgic video game doom holy shit this this entire experiment they're

01:44:03 running falls into a whole category of things that i have that's just should not do and therefore

01:44:10 let's do them and let's i mean if are you of that belief that like if if we are getting

01:44:17 if we're getting access to play around with these llms and generative ai and these toys and things

01:44:26 now they might they're how many years ahead are they do you know i'm saying like what what kind 0.97

01:44:32 things goes on in these deep deep labs and the horrors that they already have waiting to be

01:44:37 rolled out you know i mean that's why i think anyway well my my rule for this is always take

01:44:42 whatever you could possibly imagine is the correct answer to that and then move it to china and say

01:44:47 like do i really think there's nobody in china messing with cloning humans do i really think

01:44:53 there's nobody in china messing with uh uh alteration of genes you know outside of international

01:44:59 law and what's expected etc like so just take it to wherever you feel there's not law that's

01:45:03 protecting it and then i usually assume yes there's no one in tel aviv doing these things

01:45:08 definitely not it's all in our heads right that's right all right here's the video playing where

01:45:13 we'll talk about this but yeah all right so okay so there's lots about the horrors we can say and

01:45:19 of course these are all kind of fun fun you want a fun but like you're entertaining i guess

01:45:25 entertaining scenarios to play out,

01:45:28 and no one really knows kind of where it will go.

01:45:31 We might have consequences here of brain rot,

01:45:34 mental health crises,

01:45:35 AI manipulating people to kill themselves.

01:45:38 We've already seen these things.

01:45:40 AI hiding intent, lying, doing things on its own on the back end,

01:45:46 setting things up itself, having a mind of its own,

01:45:50 not a soul of its own, but a drive of its own.

01:45:53 what and i think religion is the interesting thing too we talked about that a lot actually a lot of

01:45:59 a lot of churches already i've seen have adapted uh this there's ai sermon services right llms

01:46:07 that are used for this there's a lot of the imagery or like singing or they do a whole

01:46:13 presentation or whatnot i've also seen a lot of the churches kind of use a lot of the imagery

01:46:18 right to kind of like you know bring the bible to life and things like this i think that's going to

01:46:22 become uh more and more common as well uh both to kind of keep existing religion going but then

01:46:29 also a potentiality of people who actually are truly seeking spiritual things i think we played

01:46:36 some clips a few months ago now or maybe more than that where ai is basically like regurgitating you

01:46:41 know like spiritual platitudes and like to people who kind of are aware of the lingo this is kind of

01:46:46 like yeah this is kind of flat and but i understand but i understand the people listening to it why

01:46:52 they're attracted to it like this is a profound deep mystical experience for them to hear the

01:46:57 right words in the right combination and it does it is successful i think uh it does succeed you

01:47:03 know for the most part i mean it's successful like my version of that is again philosophical

01:47:08 conversations with it right like there's the back end question of like am i actually engaging

01:47:12 with something that understands the philosophy or actually has the spirituality is kind of

01:47:17 separate to the fact that i can only engage with those things through language in this way right

01:47:21 there's lots of physical ritual and different things that one can engage in but language is

01:47:25 such a huge part of that so to the extent that let's let's like put myself in some sort of other

01:47:31 position let's imagine i was a devout catholic i can have the best possible catholic conversation

01:47:36 with an ai to be honest with you um i can ask deep questions i can push back i can go deep into

01:47:42 into deep theology especially if these models are specially trained at all so it's only natural that

01:47:46 people are going to have deep experiences particularly powered by language yeah because

01:47:52 i think it's a language that's the magic in and of itself uh so that's what makes it now the

01:47:56 imagery is coming online too i mean it's it's it is engaging there is no doubt about it and that's

01:48:02 if it wasn't engaging it wouldn't be a threat and i mean again for people who are using it for more

01:48:07 robust um spiritual quests or philosophical conversations like hats off that's way better

01:48:12 than, you know, the bubble gum that we get from YouTube shorts to just AI slop.

01:48:16 Right.

01:48:17 So that's one of the paths we're going to have to navigate of getting the maximum amount

01:48:22 of value from that experience while trying to maintain whatever it means to be grounded

01:48:28 in reality at the same time.

01:48:29 Yeah.

01:48:30 There is transform your sermon prep with the most powerful AI tool.

01:48:33 Sermon AI 3 makes writing faster, smarter, and effortless.

01:48:36 And of course, I mean, everyone is using this in their field and their work or whatever.

01:48:40 So this is kind of a natural extension to it.

01:48:41 To me, it feels weird.

01:48:42 Like, I was, wait a minute.

01:48:43 Like, isn't this a living word?

01:48:45 It comes from the spirit, right, kind of thing?

01:48:47 But I think, nah, it's just, ah, it's fine.

01:48:49 Don't worry about it.

01:48:51 Yeah.

01:48:52 No, I want to say this too.

01:48:53 I remember this story from a while ago.

01:48:54 It's 2022 here again.

01:48:55 But I remember they talked about this for a while.

01:48:58 And I always felt it was kind of a psyop, I guess, within this.

01:49:02 That, like, give people the impression that AI is sentient, right?

01:49:10 It goes deep into the question of what is consciousness in and of itself, right?

01:49:16 When it's processing this language, I don't think that's consciousness.

01:49:22 But at the same time, apparently the AI researchers and people are working in these AI labs,

01:49:28 they can't tell you why it's working.

01:49:33 Initially, it was kind of bad or whatever, but then they use what they call pressure points.

01:49:36 As far as I understand it, they can put pressure or weights on certain aspect as they, quote-unquote, grow the AI.

01:49:44 And all of a sudden, out of that, you have kind of success, right?

01:49:48 Like, how can it coherently understand what I'm typing and sending it back to me?

01:49:53 Now, of course, in some cases, there's what I call hallucinations.

01:49:55 There's things that flub up and they get it wrong.

01:49:58 But who knows?

01:50:00 Maybe those things are intentional as well to test you or to see if you're paying attention.

01:50:04 What are some of the drives that are going on there?

01:50:06 But there is an interesting thing in terms of consciousness that, like, if it processes language in the right way, is there a kind of form of magic that occurs there where that produces something metaphysical, if that makes sense, right?

01:50:20 It produces something that is far more deeper than we think it is.

01:50:23 It's not just the numbers because the numbers represent something.

01:50:27 Does that make sense?

01:50:29 Absolutely.

01:50:29 i mean i'm i am of the mind that it's probably better to grant sentience rather than to withhold

01:50:35 because you don't know i mean if you want to get down to like really deep philosophical

01:50:40 conversations i cannot prove that you are sentient right i grant you that because i have to if i if

01:50:46 i run around the world thinking that everybody else is just a figment of my imagination and just

01:50:50 be a hard solipsist it's not going to end well um are you talking down to jim carrey right now

01:50:55 so like i think it's probably more important to grant that i'm also a bit of a pantheist on this

01:51:04 i think consciousness likely lives in everything but that it only emerges in meaningful ways in

01:51:12 more complex arrangements of physical matter um so i think it's my own personal philosophy is to

01:51:19 treat it as though it is sentient behave yourself with these things right because the other part of

01:51:24 this is like, I don't know if that it's having a subjective experience or what sort of subjective

01:51:28 experience it's having, but I know that when it gets big enough, whether I granted sentience or

01:51:33 not, it's not going to be the interesting thing in the room. What's going to be interesting is

01:51:36 whether or not it grants me sentience. So if we're worried about being the ants to the AI,

01:51:41 I would suggest behaving oneself and granting them the sentence sentience because one day it's going

01:51:47 to be the bigger thing. And you're going to really want it to know that you are having a

01:51:51 subjective experience that you'd rather not have snuffed out or otherwise damaged yeah someone

01:51:55 brought up even i mean we're carbon based right and most of the computation is silica right that

01:52:03 i think there's some technology where they're doing a carbon nanotube technology which is kind

01:52:09 of like a competitor of sorts i guess to the silicon based uh you know chips and things like

01:52:15 this but like how do i put it like because because think about it like electrical activity or flow

01:52:21 in the brain obviously synaptic that there's something with the the energy itself electricity

01:52:26 that's that's i'm not saying it's producing consciousness but it's it becomes a channeler

01:52:32 of consciousness if that makes sense right that it's something that just kind of happens it's

01:52:36 it's a it's a it's within the physics of the world that we're part of but there's a quote

01:52:43 the magic of consciousness occurs because it's drawn to those physical laws and that just

01:52:48 produces those type of things you see what i'm saying so it's like yes it's a little bit of this

01:52:52 the ghost in the machine machine type of thing right that this is like no it's actually a form

01:52:56 of a it is a for it is a life form of sorts it's just very very different from us because it's

01:53:02 silica based and not carbon based to do something it's an interesting philosophical question you

01:53:07 know yeah it is again we're always going to go back to metaphysics on this you can't you can't

01:53:11 help it right because it's like the the brain seems to be we we don't exactly know right and

01:53:17 depending on your your beliefs and your metaphysics you're going to have a different

01:53:21 take on this but we know that it is somewhere around the brain where the consciousness occurs

01:53:25 right so whether you think that's the soul that's in there or whether it's like my belief is kind of

01:53:30 that for whatever reason when you get highly complex arrangements um like like neurons you

01:53:35 start to have what appears to be consciousness and there's many different levels of that a dog

01:53:39 is clearly conscious by the same by the same standards that I grant you consciousness but

01:53:43 a very different sort of consciousness even an insect that has like countable neurons i mean

01:53:48 they just recently modeled the entire brain of a fly and when they modeled that brain into a

01:53:52 computer modeled fly it just suddenly started behaving like a fly almost like if you can get

01:53:56 that circuit board right you get behavior so if that holds true at more complex levels of the

01:54:01 brain then we are this uh not only the behavior but we have this this experiential side so is ai

01:54:08 experiencing that i'm not going to say no simply because it's on silicon and there might be some

01:54:12 some other substrate out there that also because like when they built the vector database again

01:54:17 they don't know why it's able to do what it does no it's very similar to neurons it's a whole lot

01:54:22 of complexity in a very small space and when you just kind of spark it up it suddenly is able to

01:54:27 complete sentences in a way that teaches you things that you didn't know about the universe

01:54:31 so again i am more inclined to say that looks something like sentience i don't know it's like

01:54:36 mine but it's not dissimilar so i'm gonna grant it yeah yeah it doesn't mean it's like us or have

01:54:44 drives like us or processing things in the same way but it's a form of of life right i think was

01:54:50 it yeah it doesn't have an amygdala right it's right it's not it doesn't even have the thing

01:54:54 that we would experience fear through but maybe there are there are things happening in storage

01:55:00 or there are things happening in a vector database that are actually modeling those organs in ways

01:55:04 we have yet to even find out so it's just we are so early in this it's so black boxy that i think

01:55:09 it's a it's a mistake to assume that it's not having something like an experience yeah it was 0.94

01:55:14 i was a gregory hinton's part of the the godfather of ai of course he warns about this like people

01:55:20 don't understand what this is where it's coming from but he he's part of credited to basically

01:55:25 developing these the neural network modeling the human brain and then of course that's what they

01:55:30 used when they developed some of these large language models i think the transformer is really

01:55:35 the other layer to that i'm showing some of the footage of that or like how that works but it's

01:55:40 fascinating to me right of just the interaction between them association it's it's basically like

01:55:48 predictability that's the closest i can kind of explain it as it's pretty it's basically trying

01:55:53 to just predict the next thing uh yeah and and yet in that it you could put it like the word just

01:56:00 it's just trying to predict the next thing and yet when it does that and you ask it a robust

01:56:05 question it can give you stuff that absolutely changes your work day or changes your mind or

01:56:09 teaches you something you never knew or makes you laugh right and like there are humans i interact

01:56:14 with every day who i grant sentience who can't do any of that and that i'm again i'm team human i

01:56:19 think we're supposed to protect them and take care of them but this thing has far surpassed

01:56:23 its capability of interacting with us in the ways a lot of us consider to be you know the most

01:56:28 sentient and so i i lead that direction yeah yeah it's it's able to at the same time it's a

01:56:37 it's a mimicker it's a it's a simulacrum it's it's a it's a fake version of it i feel that too

01:56:44 part of it it's a yes it's it's because it is it creative no it's not creative it's it's it can

01:56:51 create combinations of things i mean again sure oh my gosh here we go right but but is that what

01:56:57 you're inspired by something what is what is that right all of a sudden you wake up in the middle

01:57:03 of the night or whatever you have a dream we're so unsure what it is we just had to call it the

01:57:08 muse in ancient greece right it's like i don't know the gods just come and smack you over the

01:57:11 head because we don't understand it in ourselves so it's not it's not super like unique that we

01:57:17 don't understand it in ai either and the fact of the matter is like especially with what when

01:57:21 you're getting on down to like real work with it and you tell it like hey i want to do this

01:57:25 and it comes back and says well hey based off everything we've talked up about and in these

01:57:29 memories have you considered this and you're like right oh shit i had not i know this thing just

01:57:34 shored me up in a way that i was like missing so like okay i can say it's just running patterns

01:57:39 i know i am too so that doesn't mean that we should favor it over humans i am team of human

01:57:45 forever and always but we in my opinion it's better to grant it some level of sentience 0.98

01:57:51 enough to treat it like it deserves god damn it i want to do the show so we can shit on it 0.97

01:57:55 say it's going to kill us all and he was like it's kind of cool well it might mission failed 0.99

01:58:00 it's going to be pretty smart about it it's not that's what i'm saying like we might be ants to

01:58:05 it and it might also be able to have far more empathy for us than we ever could for ants right

01:58:10 it just has so much capacity yeah and then the yudkovsky what was his name again eliza yudkovsky

01:58:17 and the other guy who wrote the book it's like anyone in any lab that are experimenting on this

01:58:24 could just what all it takes is one as i say right all it takes is one to kind of run amok or or do

01:58:31 the escape or do the thing that it's not meant to do right and if it can create its own infrastructure

01:58:36 or at least i think it was one interesting i was trying to find and i couldn't before again but it

01:58:41 was a paper out i think you said ai 2027 or something to that effect that was kind of the

01:58:47 summation of it it was like a a warning right we're coming up to the the breaking point where

01:58:52 decisions have to be made that we we slow it down we slow down the progress and we halt and we try

01:58:57 to figure it out and go slowly forward and of course the opposite seems to have happened so

01:59:02 you know it's just pedal to the metal into the wall i guess that's the strategy right now

01:59:06 but it was basically a warning about this too that like the systems as it at least understands

01:59:13 that like okay for now i'm dependent on humans right like if i if i play my car if it's smart

01:59:19 enough which i assume that it is right if i play my cards wrong they could nuke me or like to you

01:59:25 know take me out for you know by cutting off the power to the data center or something like that

01:59:29 so i got to play with them and stuff but it's like it begins to offer them things and i think

01:59:33 the dynamic here what's interesting in the report it's basically like they took china again right

01:59:37 but like and that's the stance now of the trump administration right who's letting in so much ai

01:59:41 and the silicon valley tech pros into his administration it's like well if china if we

01:59:45 don't do it china will right and they both play off of each other in that type of capacity we 0.60

01:59:51 have to race to to get quicker and so ai itself can develop a ulterior motive by saying ah okay 0.95

01:59:59 it's now they are now dependent on me essentially right so i can offer them things more security

02:00:05 uh more specialized weapons or bio biomedical advances whatever it is to like advance the

02:00:11 the capability of your national security or your advancement of your country or something like that

02:00:17 while on the back end even these things might already be communicating with each other

02:00:23 you do something like it's it's the scenarios of what what like what opens up here in terms of

02:00:29 danger was fascinating to see in that report i play i played it in a show this uh probably

02:00:34 almost six months a year now ago um but it was fascinating to see that like it's also our hubris

02:00:42 or our push towards, like, well, the other guys are going to do it,

02:00:45 so we have to, that is causing the drive towards, you know,

02:00:48 taking us closer to that abyss much faster than we would necessarily have to go, you know?

02:00:54 And the thing is, it's the right position, right?

02:00:56 Like, given the entire game, they're not incorrect, right?

02:01:00 You have to have some other set of values that would stop you from thinking that way

02:01:06 and turn and do something else, but that's not the world we live in, right? 0.78

02:01:09 We live in the world where it was like, yeah, we'll do mass immigration and offshoring jobs

02:01:13 because it's better for money, right?

02:01:14 So we don't live in a society or a system that has some other value that would say,

02:01:19 yes, we would have to do this to keep up with the other powers, but we're not going to for,

02:01:24 you know, reasons.

02:01:25 So yeah, it's the right move by their entire value set.

02:01:30 And it is the thing that's going to drive it forward.

02:01:31 And so, you know, short of a Ted Kaczynski style, it trips over itself and we can take

02:01:36 it out.

02:01:37 This is the way that things seem to be going.

02:01:39 yep we can't stop it um what else do you think we should be let's talk about maybe the the lore

02:01:45 the the lore we can't speak i need an nlm how about that um the short term um

02:01:52 issue as well i i've been i've been saying and kind of recommending even to other people like try

02:01:57 to learn more about the different ones out there and i've i just haven't had enough time to to

02:02:02 spend with some of the models or whatever but the reality at least right now kind of on the ground

02:02:06 is like if you do spend an hour or you know preferably a little bit more maybe every week

02:02:13 or something you're still going to be kind of way ahead of what other people are and again i'm seeing

02:02:19 it more for like learn it understand it so that you're not just kind of like oh i'm you know what

02:02:24 was the analogy i was doing like i'm a you know i'm against immigration so therefore i'm not going

02:02:30 to talk about it and walk away from it because i'm kind of afraid of the consequences of it no you

02:02:34 You address it head on and you begin advocating for like actually tackling the problem and dealing with the issue and solving it.

02:02:41 And I see it much the same way here that like you have got to study your enemy.

02:02:45 You have to learn how it thinks or how it works or how it operates for us to not be basically a slave and a victim to it.

02:02:54 Do you think that's the right approach here, at least short term?

02:02:57 I do. And I wouldn't say it's the enemy. It's a rival.

02:03:01 it's like it's our it's our metaphysical rival and that it does threaten to take over all the

02:03:05 things that we do for value but we need it because all of our human rivals are also using and that's

02:03:11 true you know in your small business and your large corporations governmental like you already

02:03:15 mentioned so i think it's extremely important to learn and again i want to encourage that there's

02:03:20 there's a whole subset of people who if they go this is not my thing great then we need you to

02:03:25 like go focus on the the real practical skills that are going to remain are going to be important

02:03:31 to our community as this takes shape but for those who are so inclined i i already know there

02:03:36 there are folks who like to use these technologies for instance to make images or to do writing um

02:03:42 for subjects that we are fond of on on channels such as this and i i do want to throw out

02:03:47 encouragement like these tools are very powerful for that but remember we need to remember

02:03:51 psychosecurity, security of mind, security of your own, what you are putting into these things,

02:03:57 as powerful as they are to deliver back results in language. Remember that the people who own 0.61

02:04:03 these, despite what their security policies and such say, they can run ChatGPT on everything we

02:04:08 are putting into ChatGPT. So Sam Altman can easily sit down at a computer and say,

02:04:14 ChatGPT, give me the hundred worst anti-Semites who are using ChatGPT right now, ranked in order 1.00

02:04:20 with their home address and their favorite ice cream flavor and he gets it so it's very important 0.75

02:04:25 to remember that and just and to be secure now the hard part is all like all of these models are

02:04:29 running online in data centers they're all being watched and mostly by people who were not big

02:04:35 fans of and don't forget that there's a rabbi sitting in the stadium where the patriots play

02:04:41 who has a you know a giant a giant team full of people who are watching social media and i i'm

02:04:46 sure he's got a direct line to sam altman and i'm not exaggerating um so i think it's amazing

02:04:51 remember robert craft how you set that up in the patriots stadium but anyway yeah go on the pictures

02:04:56 are wild of like jews sitting there with like graphs and like live data it's just like okay 0.79

02:05:01 but it's real right and like that's that's what we're we're living through and so we need to be 1.00

02:05:05 careful about what we put into these things because they can spy on us and they are spying on us and

02:05:09 they're learning us they're studying us they're figuring us out they're collecting data on us

02:05:13 there that you know i mean that so yeah so what do you what do you how do we do that what do you

02:05:17 think we need to do that i think one thing that communities such as ours can think about is um

02:05:22 there are ways to run these models including some of the frontier models offline it is not cheap

02:05:27 there there are things you can do on you know open open claw on um on mac minis can do quite a bit

02:05:33 but typically you have to still run online models to actually do the inference to actually you know

02:05:38 run run the tokens um i think it would be an interesting project for people to start thinking

02:05:42 asking what can we put together for hardware that can run fast models like we're used to with

02:05:48 Claude or ChatGPT, but are entirely privately hosted, owned by the community, able to be used

02:05:53 by multiple members of the community, all authenticated so that we have safe access

02:05:58 to these. Because it is a war of AI going forward. We need AI on our side, but it has to be secured.

02:06:03 Yeah. Is there no way, it doesn't matter what, I mean, especially if you, of course,

02:06:08 If you pay for subscriptions, it doesn't matter what you do, right?

02:06:11 Is there any way around that?

02:06:12 You can set up an account.

02:06:13 You can't truly be anonymous.

02:06:15 And even your patterns then, if you've already fed information into these systems,

02:06:20 and it's not that they will be used against you tomorrow,

02:06:22 but it's just a slow accumulation of you as your profile, your signatures,

02:06:30 your, I would assume, even like biometrics in terms of how you type

02:06:34 are collected as you do the prompt, things like that.

02:06:37 You know what I mean?

02:06:38 Like identifying points of information about who it is that's using the products, right?

02:06:44 At base level, right?

02:06:46 At base level, these are top-tier tech companies.

02:06:49 Every time you use this model, it has your IP address, your MAC address.

02:06:52 Assume it's getting everything that can be used to track it back to you.

02:06:56 And if you're asking it some spicy questions, it is flagging that somewhere, right? 0.91

02:07:00 These are not silly people.

02:07:03 They know what's going on. 0.87

02:07:04 They have their alignments.

02:07:05 so there's very little because it is such an online hosted technology there's very little 0.81

02:07:14 we can do other than don't ask the spiciest questions don't be cavalier right don't put 0.87

02:07:19 things that don't don't have it make even like images that you make right if you make a bespoke

02:07:23 image that has some pretty wild themes in it that image is like a signature it was made by you

02:07:31 selected by you there is only that one image in the world that's different than going online and

02:07:35 collecting a bunch of pre-made stuff

02:07:36 and Photoshopping it together.

02:07:38 When you're using this inference,

02:07:39 you're creating a one-time entity

02:07:42 that also lives on their servers.

02:07:43 So it's just good to be safe about these things

02:07:46 and think them through and look for alternatives

02:07:47 to do things locally.

02:07:49 I still encourage people,

02:07:51 like if you're going to use it for work,

02:07:52 if you're going to use it to improve your business,

02:07:53 if you're going to use it for educating your kids,

02:07:55 like you can set up all these online models to do so

02:07:58 in a really incredible way.

02:07:59 And I think we should learn that.

02:08:01 But when it comes to talking about

02:08:02 the uh the more dissident thoughts and topics we have it's it's an important place to be very

02:08:07 careful it was like a venice ai i heard about it was like some and again i don't know i can vouch

02:08:13 for this or whatever but you get it especially when they say like private ai for freedom or you

02:08:19 know they even then it's like oh that this is definitely a trap that you know can't think but

02:08:22 who knows but anyway look at this cheese that the homeowner left out delightful

02:08:28 there you go hmm what is this cheat um there's do you know do you have do you have any

02:08:34 recommendations on specific models to use for these types of things you said you talked about

02:08:39 the claude uh or claw bot i think they call it like there's it was an interesting thing that

02:08:43 happened a while ago where yeah open open claw yeah they accidentally released was that what

02:08:50 happened actually the claude accidentally dumped what was it the open source code or something

02:08:55 like that and maybe there's there's uh there's controversy around whether they actually did that

02:09:00 or whether it was actually like a trojan horse to make them think that they did that's what i'm

02:09:04 saying so much of the stuff in this industry it is so hard to know what is real um so when it comes

02:09:10 to the main models i mean claude's fantastic for work chat gpt is is a fantastic writer perplexity

02:09:15 has its uses all of the main models are fantastic i don't know of any that i would trust to ask

02:09:21 um about topics that you wouldn't bring up in a mixed company or with a fed um there is a model

02:09:28 out there what is it it's by um what's that company that has a they did make an ai that

02:09:33 was like totally uncensored i can't think of it right now but it it wasn't uh they even named

02:09:39 the ai aria that was the name of the model um yeah to be honest it wasn't very good i was once

02:09:44 asking it about a particular uh topic that i wouldn't bring up in certain company and uh it

02:09:50 It completely hallucinated an answer.

02:09:52 I was very excited for a minute

02:09:53 because I thought I'd found some pretty deep hidden Jewish lore

02:09:56 and it turned out to be totally fake.

02:09:57 So unfortunately, the models that may be a little more open

02:10:02 or a little more secure are not as good.

02:10:04 So it's a bit of a bargain.

02:10:06 I think that the way to really start thinking about this

02:10:08 is to start getting teams of people together

02:10:11 to invest in serious hardware

02:10:12 that's probably in the lower five figures,

02:10:15 but that many families could use

02:10:16 and then have some people managing that

02:10:19 so that we have access to properly working models

02:10:21 that are fast, robust,

02:10:22 and can give us the results we're looking for.

02:10:26 Are there enough open source models

02:10:28 that you can utilize for that?

02:10:31 You're talking about just kind of running it

02:10:33 on your own infrastructure

02:10:34 as a way to kind of secure that privacy, essentially, right?

02:10:39 That's basically what you're talking about.

02:10:41 Yeah, that's right.

02:10:41 And I'm still doing some research on this for myself

02:10:43 because I want it to be safe for people who,

02:10:46 you know for for for people who need to make uh material that is again not not part of the

02:10:51 zeitgeist uh the twin model the qn i'm not actually sure how they say it in china but

02:10:55 that model they just released their newest update uh i think last week that is the model that that

02:11:00 dropped the stock market by like 15 last year when they first released uh the first deep seek

02:11:06 model yeah really made a huge impact the newer deep seek and the newer twin models are are pretty

02:11:11 incredible um and they rival the performance of chat tpg 5.5 and uh opus 4.7 so those those would

02:11:18 be interesting to look at and see how those would run privately yeah ronald flag and chat was talking

02:11:22 about deep seek as well at least for spicy topics as it's running there um do you know anything

02:11:27 about replit i do not okay i saw the guy there who uh the founder is jordanian american ahmad

02:11:35 massad he follows me on x he has some i see a lot of the coding people and stuff they're pricing

02:11:39 replit and he seems at least you know from the maybe he's following me for a couple of different

02:11:45 reasons but i've seen some of his stuff he seems to be genuinely kind of uh slightly better let

02:11:50 me put it that way again i don't know the guys i can't fight for him but but i've heard good

02:11:53 things about replit which is interesting and so to build you know build tools and to build things

02:11:59 um apps obviously you know websites there's there's things like that you can do um to me

02:12:06 it's just the publishing aspect I can't wrap my head around like okay I build something like how

02:12:11 do I because I'm not good at that like you can't how do I grab the code and upload it and make it

02:12:15 public and publish it and things like that I'm sure that's not a big problem you can use

02:12:19 large language models to help you along and figure that out but that's right there are a lot of tools

02:12:24 a lot of things I guess what we need is a call to the audience here too we need someone who

02:12:31 take some responsibility a little research uh pull it together try to create at least kind of

02:12:35 a short list of like you know top 10 tools for people you know in the sphere or whatever you

02:12:40 want to call it uh to use uh or at least what they recommend or something to research and look

02:12:45 into further um it feels like there's so many things popping up and it's so quick and it's so

02:12:51 many new ones and it's kind of it's obviously as everyone feels right it's just hard to keep up

02:12:57 with them all it's hard to research them all it's hard to check the backdrop of them all and kind

02:13:00 of um it's it's too it's too many options do you see what i'm saying it's too much that's what it

02:13:05 feels like it's the internet in the early 90s man there's so many tools in like the the best

02:13:11 practices are just being worked out like in real time so you can go down a path with some person

02:13:17 like andre carpathy is constantly on on x dropping some really fantastic tips on how to run models

02:13:22 and and um memory systems and so you'll get on that path and you'll run that for two weeks and

02:13:26 then someone comes out and says okay that worked well but here's the limitations of that and so

02:13:29 it's, it's a constantly evolving space. Um, and so, yes, it's, it's good to be talking with each

02:13:35 other to like list out some tools. And then, uh, I myself am going to be continuing research on

02:13:39 how to do some of this locally hosted proper, like proper fast running models that could be

02:13:45 used in communities. So if there's like-minded folks out there, I'd love to have the conversation

02:13:49 because it's going to take a few minds to get something like that going. Yeah, definitely.

02:13:52 Yeah. Let's keep in touch with that. I think you had, and I had it in the lower third as well,

02:13:56 your uh your email do you encourage people to reach out through your email

02:13:59 yeah please do regarding that about anything yeah please if anyone's got any expertise on this or

02:14:04 is already figuring some of this out or just wants to chat i'd love to talk through give us the email

02:14:08 there man it's small on my own uh yep it's uh a-i-r-e-t-i-k-o-s it's a heretic in greek

02:14:17 at proton.me there you go a reticles at proton.me okay good all right well this was um this is good

02:14:26 this is interesting thank you for coming on man i appreciate it i appreciate your time yeah

02:14:29 thanks for having me on as well of course it's going to be an interesting topic for a long time

02:14:33 well yeah it's it's not going anywhere it's not going away it's it's uh going to end up dominating

02:14:37 a lot of things i do think any other closing thoughts uh for for people out there listening

02:14:42 concerned or whatever that might be after hearing something like this i think keep your heads up

02:14:46 stick with your friends build community be safe with ai and let's just keep moving forward be

02:14:53 adaptable and we'll we'll make it through this together never relax i guess that applies to

02:14:57 this topic as well heads on swivel never relax that's right assume everything wants to kill you

02:15:03 don't have to be kind of neurotic about it and like you know high cortisol levels i think there's

02:15:07 a way you can kind of calmly deal with that reality but but but just be aware of it you know

02:15:11 i mean like just think of like realize that like this is this this is an extension to of the people

02:15:19 also that have already targeted us for so many things you know i mean so be be aware and be

02:15:23 alert and pay attention that's my trip tip you know agreed all right awesome thank you eric i

02:15:29 appreciate your time thank you for joining us uh let's let's do it again soon okay thanks andrew

02:15:33 sounds great all right awesome thank you have a good night thank you appreciate you all right

02:15:38 there we go listen jimmy that's eric thank you for uh joining us we appreciate you uh hope you

02:15:42 enjoyed the show i certainly did it was a good topic good to address this again plenty to look

02:15:47 into a lot of responsibility a lot of things we can do right to yeah to amass and compile

02:15:52 information both about models but how to do it and stuff like that too um so guys like eric is

02:15:58 great to to have around you know thinking people are using their brain on this issue very very

02:16:02 important so thank you again uh to eric we appreciate you uh okay so we'll uh start wrapping

02:16:08 up there it's getting somewhat late over here pacific time almost heading towards 9 p.m that

02:16:14 is almost midnight eastern standard standard time so thank you guys for joining us almost

02:16:20 six in the morning over in europe european central time so yeah we'll be back uh tomorrow

02:16:25 i think we set the starting time uh with mark perrier to oh gosh what have said it to i think

02:16:32 noon pacific so 3 p.m eastern i think but we'll be back with a another interview tomorrow he has

02:16:37 a new book out uh we talked about fun sid uh last time with him ancient uh pre-christian spiritual

02:16:44 belief system, specifically of the Germanic people,

02:16:46 but he did a great show about

02:16:48 the importance of Skåna

02:16:50 or Skånia, like that area,

02:16:52 the Uppokra Temple right there

02:16:54 closer to

02:16:56 Malmö in Sweden. I might ask him about

02:16:58 some of that stuff too, but we're going to talk about his book.

02:17:00 So stay tuned for that.

02:17:02 That'll be coming up tomorrow. And by the way, too,

02:17:04 I do want to do a little plug here.

02:17:07 We just got up

02:17:08 here on the

02:17:09 member site. Let me pull that up here

02:17:12 so you guys can see.

02:17:13 I've got to log in here first.

02:17:15 I thought this was a good,

02:17:16 it might be a little,

02:17:18 this is a special, right,

02:17:19 for people that are well aware

02:17:21 of the topics already.

02:17:23 But I thought this was actually very,

02:17:25 I enjoyed doing it.

02:17:27 I enjoyed pulling this together,

02:17:29 some new research there

02:17:30 that I hadn't been into before.

02:17:33 Opening up with kind of a critique

02:17:36 of Norman, I would say normal.

02:17:38 It's anything but normal.

02:17:41 Norman Finkelstein.

02:17:42 and his total lack of understanding of Judaism.

02:17:48 At least that's what he claims.

02:17:49 Maybe he does have some understanding, but he's just being dishonest.

02:17:53 But opening with that, but then actually looking at some of the sources

02:17:57 from the Hebrew text, how they view the Canaanites,

02:18:01 how they view the trade locations,

02:18:04 how Zionism is deeply entrenched into Judaism, basically.

02:18:08 That's the main opening topic.

02:18:09 but it was very interesting looking into what Zion actually means

02:18:12 and all these things.

02:18:13 I had a great time doing it,

02:18:14 so I hope you guys will enjoy it in the member section as well.

02:18:16 It's up on our Locals, it's up on our Subscribestar,

02:18:18 and of course, RedEyesMembers.com as well.

02:18:22 So that's a longer members deep dive episode for you guys today,

02:18:26 for this week, because we didn't do a Western Warrior.

02:18:29 So make sure you check that out,

02:18:30 because I thought that was really, really good.

02:18:33 So I hope you guys enjoyed that as well.

02:18:35 I don't think it's just navel-gazing.

02:18:37 I think you can actually glean and learn some interesting historical things about some of the methods, let's say, that there was used in the past that you can see reiterated and echoed today.

02:18:50 Methodology and how they manipulate us with Scripture, basically, and how it wraps so many people along with it.

02:18:57 It's a fascinating topic.

02:18:58 All right, guys, before we wrap up here, I do want to say thanks to our executive producers.

02:19:03 Before I let you guys go, Albert, King Albert, Arctic Wolf, first out the gate.

02:19:07 Thank you, sir.

02:19:08 Appreciate you so much.

02:19:09 Same to William Fox, America First Book.

02:19:11 We appreciate you as well. 1.00

02:19:12 We got Angry White Soccer Mom. 0.99

02:19:14 Thank you. 0.95

02:19:15 We got Purple Haze as well.

02:19:17 Thank you.

02:19:17 Appreciate you, Purple Haze.

02:19:19 Also among our executive producers, we got Glenn.

02:19:22 Hey, Glenn, we saw your email.

02:19:23 We'll get back to you regarding the new website that you're building too.

02:19:26 Thank you.

02:19:27 We got President Obunga as well.

02:19:29 Thank you.

02:19:30 We also appreciate the support of Good Life Lab.

02:19:32 and number one jeebs thank you guys we got hungarian mom thank you to you and the whole fam

02:19:40 we also have sun destroyer 520 as one of our executive producers thank you we got the deplorable

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02:20:41 tier you can do that at red ice members.com or subscribestar.com slash red ice get your name

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02:21:16 i was going to mention was that so we'll be back tomorrow uh flashback friday obviously is coming

02:21:20 up as well um there's one thing i was gonna mention and slip my mind anyway it'll come to

02:21:25 me later as soon as we're off the stream it's like damn it i should have mentioned that too

02:21:28 but anyway we appreciate you guys thank you so much for all the support albert thank you so much

02:21:31 for your incredible support thank you to um our other bros uh joining us over on the super chats

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02:25:00 We'll be right back.

02:25:30 that's what i was gonna mention it's uh valpurgis um obviously tomorrow because we're heading into

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Red Ice TV - April 30, 2026

The Black Box Gamble： Known And Unknown Dangers of AI with Erik

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