On this episode of Red Ice, host Henrik and host James Kirkpatrick are joined by writer and podcaster Kevin DeKorte to discuss what happens next under the Trump administration, and what it means for the future of the country.
00:12:13.740Just to undo what the Biden administration alone did would take a remarkably extensive effort.
00:12:21.740And I think that leads me to my next point, which is what the Trump administration is failing on.
00:12:26.740It's not necessarily that they're not going all the way in terms of what they want to do, but they're facing a remarkable amount of resistance from the bureaucracy and especially from the Democrats, of course, but especially from the courts where you essentially have every random judge just parachuting in in every single case and saying, well, this guy who's got an active deportation order, I just don't think you're allowed to send him away.
00:12:51.740Actually, you're not allowed to operate in these areas.
00:13:11.740But I don't think the Trump administration fully understood what it signed up for.
00:13:16.740I think they expected a bit more obedience from law enforcement, local law enforcement, even in these blue states.
00:13:23.740And I don't think they expected the courts to go as hard as they did.
00:13:26.740And the second point, of course, is that with H-1Bs, with the university system, with corporate America, and of course, it's endless lust for cheap labor.
00:13:34.740The Trump administration simultaneously is trying to be this radical overthrow the elite style regime.
00:13:43.740But also we have to manage the economy in a certain way.
00:13:46.740We have to work with the tech companies.
00:13:50.740We can't get rid of all the illegals right away because then food prices go up and we lose the next election.
00:13:55.740You see them making all sorts of exceptions with this industry and that industry.
00:13:59.740The problem is we have a system in this country now that is so dependent on illegal labor that there are going to be extensive short term costs solving the problem.
00:14:08.740And I'm not sure the Trump administration.
00:14:10.740It's not just that the Trump administration might not be willing to pay those costs.
00:14:13.740The American people might not be willing to pay those costs.
00:14:41.740And if you are a business, the way to make money in this country and the way people do make money in this country is you essentially privatize the benefits and you dump the costs on the taxpayers.
00:16:08.740And we're also in a situation now where the United States does not command the global economy the same way it did at the end of the Cold War.
00:16:16.740And certainly what's really incredible, especially go back to those Chinese university students, is when you look at these economic policies, how are they always justified?
00:16:25.740We need to have all these H-1B laborers because we have to compete with China.
00:16:29.740We need to have all these immigrants because we need the world's best talent.
00:16:37.740China is not bringing in 20 billion Indians.
00:16:39.740China is not throwing their production facilities overseas.
00:16:42.740China is not handing away their national destiny to foreigners.
00:16:45.740China is not letting businessmen determine politics.
00:16:48.740If say what you will about the Chinese Communist Party, but everybody knows that they're the ones in charge, not the businessmen.
00:16:54.740They'll like the businessmen make money, but they're not letting them make the political decisions.
00:16:58.740If you were actually serious about competing with China, you would not be doing the things that we're doing.
00:17:04.740Yeah, which makes you think that a lot of this is just a cover.
00:17:07.740Now, I actually I think I'm a little more lenient on President Trump than a lot of people in our sphere, because I remember what Peter Brimel said all the way back in 2016.
00:17:18.740He just kind of gets up there on the top of the Empire State Building and roars, but he actually doesn't have that much power to do the things that need to be done.
00:17:26.740And if he dared to do those kinds of things, if he tried to go, I'm not even going to say Abraham Lincoln, but just like FDR, where you just like assert powers and try to do these things in the name of saving the country, which he's hinted at on occasion, but never quite done.
00:17:41.740The amount of resistance that he would face is beyond description.
00:17:45.740Yeah, unfortunately, I think we're at a point now where it's not so much a failure of political will, although it's partially that it's not so much a failure of the Republican political coalition being necessarily compromised because you have all these capitalists that want cheap labor in it, although it's partially that it's not just a question of Israel, although it's partially that, too, certainly when it comes to foreign policy more than any other lobby.
00:18:07.740But it's also just the system itself is now incapable of solving these systemic crises.
00:18:13.740It is rigged to always kicking the can down the road.
00:18:16.740It is rigged to never making the hard choices.
00:19:28.740No important decisions are coming from Congress.
00:19:31.740I mean, anything truly important is either asserted by the executive, and then we all just kind of look to the courts to see if they'll approve it or not.
00:19:38.740And most of the time, it's actually judges that just sort of assign whatever policies they feel like, and we all just kind of shrug and go, okay, well, that's just what we got to do.
00:19:47.740Or it's the regulatory bodies or it's the bureaucrats.
00:19:51.740And Congress itself just doesn't work.
00:19:54.740And I think the reason, and this is true of even some of the better congressmen, if you look at somebody like Thomas Massey, I mean, in some sense, he's just kind of an influencer.
00:20:02.740He just kind of makes speeches, creates content.
00:20:05.740But if you're like, well, what is actually being done here?
00:20:52.740The question is, even if you have the ones who are good, let's say, on whatever you think the most important issue is, what is actually being done?
00:20:59.740Even if you say like, okay, he's making a speech on this.
00:21:43.740But I do think we're sort of at a point now where there are two polls forming as far as how people think American government should actually work.
00:21:53.740One is what they refer to as our democracy, where we vote, but everybody kind of, and maybe even more people vote, vote by phone, as some Democrats are saying.
00:22:02.740But we all kind of know that's not really who runs things.
00:22:10.740It's these people you've never heard of.
00:22:12.740And they just kind of govern things in all our interests and things just move on.
00:22:16.740I mean, basically the way the country was governed during COVID, I think, is sort of their model for how things should go.
00:22:21.740And the counterpoint to that, I think, is what Trump has suggested implicitly, but is not the guy to go all the way with, which is you actually have a strong executive to do what Bukele has done in El Salvador,
00:22:33.740which I think is the only way you can solve these problems.
00:22:36.740You actually have to cut the Gordian knot with a strong executive.
00:22:48.740I mean, I didn't follow it up that detail, but I remember for a while, like, we're going to, we're going to make sure that they can't just a random judge somewhere can just step in and say, this is not approved, whatever.
00:22:57.740What do you know what happened with that?
00:22:59.740What's interesting is that a lot of the lower courts at this point are not just defying the president, which in theory, I guess they could do.
00:23:07.740But they're actually defying the Supreme Court in some ways.
00:23:10.740The Supreme Court has ruled basically, well, you can't do this.
00:23:13.740And then these lower judges are saying, well, we are still going to do it.
00:23:16.740We're still going to have these binding rulings on the whole country.
00:23:19.740We're still going to have these binding rulings on this and that.
00:23:21.740And now it's going to go back to the Supreme Court and we're going to see whether the Supreme Court is willing to really throw down and say, no, this is the highest court in the land and you have to do what we say.
00:23:31.740But the problem is that there's not really, to go back to the flaws of the system, this is the biggest thing that the framers got wrong.
00:23:38.740They expected the judiciary to be all but powerless.
00:23:42.740After all, it has no troops to command.
00:23:44.740There's nothing that it can use to compel obedience.
00:23:47.740But I think what they got wrong was that, first of all, they didn't anticipate how litigious American society would be where everything gets settled by the courts.
00:23:55.740But more importantly, they thought that politicians would be ambitious and power hungry and they would want to make the decisions themselves.
00:24:05.740What they didn't understand was that, especially after the party system, politicians want to be in office, but they don't want to take any responsibility for hard decisions.
00:24:15.740They're more than happy to let the courts decide anything of importance while they make speeches and generate content and raise money.
00:24:23.740And that's the situation that we're in now.
00:24:25.740The only real check that you have on the judiciary is to impeach judges and they're not going to impeach judges.
00:24:33.740And even if you did impeach judges, you're not going to be able to convict these judges because no Democrats are going to vote for it.
00:24:38.740So what you're left with, if you're the Trump administration, and it's not like there is a precedent for this in American history, is basically the Andrew Jackson solution, where you just say to hell with these people.
00:24:48.740They've made their decision, let them enforce it.
00:24:50.740But then you're raising the stakes again.
00:24:52.740And you can imagine what kind of street opposition you're going to see if you try that.
00:24:59.740And again, I mean, we know about the background and the funding and the, you know, from the Adelsons to other interests here in terms of Trump, how he's bailed out by Wilbur Ross at the time, right, to kind of use Trump as a brand and stuff like that.
00:25:09.740Because let's go back a little bit on that.
00:25:11.740I always thought, look at what happened after, what is it, during Obama, right, you have the rise of the Tea Party movement.
00:25:17.740Is that right, 2008-ish, something like that, right?
00:25:21.740And there is a, I think there's a rising tide in the country.
00:25:25.740And I think the people who are, you know, up there and monitoring these things, which is their job to do, they realize, like, we are having a movement and a momentum on our hands here.
00:25:34.740There is a true, you know, resentment, a grassroots movement building.
00:25:39.740And I think, personally, that someone along the lines said, if we don't give them anybody to channel this through, that's actually when things become dangerous type of thing, right?
00:25:49.740So I think Trump was kind of a good bet because, as you said, he's kind of a King Kong, right?
00:25:58.740He doesn't give a shit about certain things.
00:25:59.740And although that's kind of a necessary process just to, like, kind of break up this rigid, like, well, this is Paul, this is serious business type of thing, right?
00:26:08.740Just to break that system up is very, very important.
00:27:00.740They were doing, like, shitting on Trump all the time.
00:27:02.740He became the crypto and AI czar and stuff like that.
00:27:05.740And you're getting what looks like very decisive moves ahead from their point of view, very good advancements on the AI front.
00:27:17.740But again, on the migration thing, on the legal immigration front, on all these other things, we're not getting at all that much but memes and edgy posts on the internet.
00:27:34.740I do not think that with the system as it is, the president is capable of removing even just the illegal immigrants from this country without defying court orders, without defying Congress to some extent, without taking personal charge of the military and essentially ordering them to do these things.
00:27:53.740Now, the question becomes this, would the hard right in this country, the people who are demanding these things, support the president if he did that?
00:28:02.740And furthermore, are you willing to basically throw down with the entire left, which is going to take to the streets to prevent this?
00:28:09.740I don't think it's a question so much that he's backing down on the immigration issue, although I think there's certainly plenty to criticize when it comes to legal immigration.
00:28:19.740But let's just focus on the main thing of where are the mass deportations, right?
00:28:22.740What's standing in the way of the mass deportations are not just every single state and local democratic administration in the country, but it's essentially every single federal judge that's not allowing these things to take place.
00:28:34.740He has to break the law essentially to enforce the law at this point.
00:28:39.740And he's also not even going to get support from his own party.
00:29:01.740How is this possible when these are illegal migrants?
00:29:05.740I just I don't know the laws, not the laws, not a thing.
00:29:09.740I mean, if if there's one thing we've learned over the last few years, it's that the rule of law is not if it ever has been a thing.
00:29:17.740We now see judges just openly declaring, look, I do not punish black and brown defendants because I'm one of them and I want to be more lenient for them for these sorts of things.
00:29:27.740We have seen judges not even use the Constitution to justify the rulings.
00:29:33.740I think one of the greatest ones I ever saw was when the Supreme Court of Hawaii said that though the U.S. Constitution grants a right to individual firearm ownership, Hawaii tribal communal practices do not.
00:29:46.740And therefore, you actually don't need to recognize these things.
00:29:49.740Now, you have to ask yourself, I mean, it's easy to snicker, but what exactly is the cure within the system for these types of things?
00:29:57.740What happens when you have a set of rules?
00:30:00.740You know, everything is ultimately premised upon the Constitution and the people whose job it is to interpret the rules say, actually, I don't have to obey this thing.
00:30:08.740The only way you can stop that is you have to have people in Congress or people in Congress either impeach these people, which they're not going to do, or you have to have people in the White House say, we're just not going to listen to these people, which thus far the Trump administration has not done.
00:30:22.740But like one of those two things needs to happen, if not both.
00:30:26.740Otherwise, we're all just kind of talking to ourselves.
00:30:29.740And as far as tech, the tech bros go, and as far as Silicon Valley goes, there's not, you have to ask yourself this, if you take charge of the United States of America, you are now managing the economy.
00:30:40.740Is there any situation where you're not going to cater to the most powerful companies in the country, not just to keep the economy going, but also because with something like SpaceX, that is the United States space program at this point.
00:30:54.740If you're looking at the military, Anderil and all these other companies that are coming up, that is basically going to be the US military going forward with drones and everything else.
00:31:03.700There's no scenario where any kind of government takes power, where these guys are not going to have a seat at the table.
00:31:10.800The difference, of course, is to go back to the Chinese example.
00:31:14.560I think if you looked at something like China, it's very clear that the political leadership and the people who have a national interest are the ones in charge.
00:31:23.680Whereas I think here, corporate America sort of thinks of the politicians as their errand boys.
00:31:30.280And you certainly see that with the issue of H-1B immigration more than anything else.
00:31:34.700Again, you would think this would be under the clause of like national security.
00:31:38.900Look at how much how they could do against an individual, right, in the name of national security.
00:31:43.900Look at Alex Karp or someone who's running Palantir or whatever, right?
00:31:48.160They have Oracle backbone, you know, data centers and all that stuff.
00:31:50.840And by the way, just a quick mention of that.
00:31:52.720Basically, the US economy is afloat right now because of the build out of AI data centers.
00:31:58.300It's like basically the majority of it.
00:31:59.800But anyway, Alex Karp is constantly like talking about Israel and Israeli interest and going after, you know, anti-Semites or Palestine protesters and stuff like that.
00:32:09.160You have the Sam Altman's on one side.
00:32:11.580You have Larry Ellison and, you know, with the Project Stargate and then Mashushi Sun, whatever it's the soft bank CEO or like drawn in.
00:32:19.580And you think if we can figure out that, like, wait a minute, they might not even actually have, quote unquote, America's interest at heart.
00:32:28.080How is there no one in the official, you know, government there at the administration that can kind of figure that out too?
00:34:04.400There's no scenario where you just can't use these things.
00:34:08.020But the question becomes, what is it that is America's interest and who determines this?
00:34:13.400Because if we don't even have a common definition of what it is to be an American, all that's going to happen is whoever do have real tribal loyalties, be it the Israel lobby, or even if you look at something like Minnesota, like the ability of the Somalian community to rally political power.
00:34:28.860They're the ones who get to call the shots, or at a much more cynical level, it's just corporate America trying to get cheap labor and dumping the costs on the taxpayer, which I think is what's really happening in a lot of these cases.
00:34:41.320I don't think there's any single person who has sort of a long-term strategy for what America's national interest is anymore.
00:34:48.760And I think as far as President Trump goes, what's great about him is also his flaw, which is that he's fundamentally a product of the 80s, right?
00:34:58.240I mean, he, in his hive brain, so to speak, he still remembers an America that was kind of brash and swaggering and defined by certain ideas, but it was still like 80% white and he knew what it was.
00:35:11.040And you could not really have to talk about race because it wasn't the most important thing.
00:35:15.120And I think like a lot of older conservatives, he just sort of takes for granted that that's just going to continue forever.
00:35:22.580But that's not the nature of the world.
00:35:25.180And I think the new generation of conservatives and certainly of young nationalists, if you're under 40 years old and you're white, you don't even know what it's like to have a country.
00:35:36.900You've never even seen the United States.
00:35:39.840You don't even begin to understand what it is to have a nation state.
00:35:44.220And instead, it's just this feeding frenzy for every other nationally minded group in the world to come and take your stuff.
00:35:52.240And to ask President Trump to understand that is essentially to ask a, what, 80-year-old man to think like a 30-year-old, which is unfortunately an impossible task.
00:36:02.540Some of the edgy Zoomers who are doing the schizo edits on DHS's official account, maybe they can let him know.
00:36:50.960And there's probably way more than 20 million.
00:36:52.580But that's, like, just as a beginning, not to mention getting rid of anchor babies, not to mention getting rid of all these other things.
00:36:59.300And if you don't do those things, they're going to come for all of us.
00:37:02.800And it's not really going to matter what you think of Trump or whether you didn't like him or whether you didn't vote for him.
00:37:07.880To the people who matter, to the people who are going to have power, they're going to treat everybody the same.
00:37:13.280And all the little distinctions and infighting just isn't going to matter.
00:37:16.720So the question is, why doesn't the Trump administration go to the mat?
00:37:20.620Because, look, these people are all going to go to jail.
00:37:22.980I mean, who knows if President Trump will even still be alive at that point.
00:37:25.680But a lot of the people in the administration, including ICE agents, by the way, and this has already been openly broached by some Democrats, are probably going to go to jail if the Democrats get back into power.
00:38:08.340There's no way you can, like, win on this issue and convince the American people in two years from now, because right now people are voting based on race and ethnicity and religion.
00:38:20.260And this is going to be the way of all politics going forward.
00:38:23.720It's like Lee Kuan Yew said in Singapore.
00:38:25.780In a multiracial society, you do not vote based on your class interest.
00:38:32.560And that fundamentally challenges ideas that have defined the American right and the American conservative movement basically since the end of World War II.
00:38:42.900We're basically saying to save the country, all the stuff that you good, naive and I love them.
00:38:50.020But these good, naive American conservatives, all the stuff that you've believed for 70 years is completely wrong.
00:39:12.480I mean, how many times when you see someone in a hopeless situation, they kind of cover it up with a sort of bravado.
00:39:19.820You know, if you're in a hopeless competition, the refusal to compete, to say like, oh, actually, I'm better than this becomes a kind of cope.
00:39:41.820There are whole cities and states that are no longer part of the country in any significant sense.
00:39:47.420And to restore the United States, even as a meaningful entity, let alone what I think so many people in our sphere want, is going to require measures that are far more radical than I think many of the people in our sphere are even willing to tolerate.
00:40:04.880One is the law or the anarcho-tyranny application of the law.
00:40:09.740Oh, it seems to kind of swing in that direction, though, that like the other side can actually break the law and actually violate, you know, whatever court orders or judges or something.
00:40:20.800And they kind of get away with it, right?
00:40:22.700By – and I'm not going to say our side, but while the other side, I'll say – they try to do something in that, oh, hands tied, everybody.
00:40:29.620Everybody can't do anything, right, kind of thing.
00:40:31.680So we know which ideology is the dominant one.
00:40:35.120Because you have to look at America as a whole, right?
00:40:50.280Like when they brought in Doge and already, I mean, to go back to those court rulings, we're seeing court rulings being like, nope, you're not allowed to fire those people.
00:41:01.020Now, when somebody says that, like, these are things that happen.
00:41:04.200Now, and you have to ask yourself, like, should the president just ignore that judge?
00:41:09.760Is he willing to, what, command the military to make sure these government employees are fired?
00:41:14.200I mean, if we're serious about, like, the president needs to go farther, he needs to do these things, like, this is what it actually takes.
00:41:22.420And I don't think the president, leave aside whether he has the will or whether he wants to do it in his heart of hearts or even thinks about any of these things at all.
00:41:30.600The question is, does he have the political backing to do something like this?
00:41:34.360Maybe not from the public, but I can guarantee you he's not going to get it from the Republican Party.
00:41:38.880Even though you have all these people saying the Republican Party is now completely subordinate to Trump, he's remade it in his image, this does not seem to be the case.
00:41:47.700I mean, I think what a lot of us are consoling ourselves with is that Trump started the process, but now he's kind of standing in the way, right?
00:41:57.380And the guy who comes next, he'll do what needs to be done.
00:42:00.180And I think we have to be very concerned that what is happening after Trump is a return to 2012, not what the base Zoomer crusader that we're all hoping for in 2032.
00:42:34.520I mean, look at what's happening just in the last, just a few days ago, right?
00:42:39.240You had Mark Kelly, you had a number of Democratic politicians, senators, and they're giving a warning to the military and to the intelligence community, saying, you know, you don't actually have to obey what the president tells you.
00:42:51.600You actually need to start, and what they're really saying there, and, of course, the president kind of flipped out and, I think, fell into a trap that nobody had actually laid for him, saying, this is sedition and we should, like, shoot them or something.
00:43:03.560It is kind of funny, incidentally, that, like, the president of the United States can just, like, call for the execution of all these guys, and we're just like, oh, that's our president.
00:43:23.360But what they were really saying, what these Democratic officials were saying, and, of course, this is becoming a thing now because they're talking about, you know, court-martialing Mark Kelly or whoever else,
00:43:32.460is what they were telling government employees, the military, ISIS, you need to be very cautious about obeying the president because we're going to come back and we're going to remember the people who did what President Trump said.
00:43:47.580And we are going to punish those people and we're going to make sure that this never happens again and that those people who went along with these things are held accountable.
00:43:56.800I think one of the biggest right-wing myths, and you and I know this, and I think many of the people watching this know this, but I don't think your average American conservative knows this.
00:44:05.340One of the biggest right-wing myths that really needs to die is this idea that the CIA or the average FBI agent or the average general in the United States military is some Douglas MacArthur hard-right super-patriot.
00:45:40.180I mean, this is political malpractice at the highest level because now it's any excuse you give for why you're not just like dumping everything is self-discrediting.
00:45:52.020I mean, let's just go all the way with it.
00:45:53.400Like, let's say President Trump himself was implicated with whatever thing.
00:45:59.820I mean, Trump and Epstein, this goes back to 2015, 2016.
00:46:02.700I can't imagine, like, what amazing thing is in there that we didn't already know about or hadn't already been leaked.
00:46:07.840But let's say there's something really bad.
00:46:09.780Frankly, if he had just released everything from the beginning, I think he probably would have gotten away with it.
00:46:13.800Now, if there's anything in there that's even not particularly bad but any kind of contact or guy he knows or whatever else, now it's going to look that much worse.
00:46:24.480And this is sort of the whole problem with the Trump administration's strategy.
00:46:29.720And, again, I don't think it's 100 percent on them.
00:46:32.400I think they're constrained by institutional barriers that we don't really understand.
01:03:20.900If you look at polls, for example, you see over and over and over again.
01:03:23.340I mean, this is going to be important because we've got Thanksgiving coming up.
01:03:25.580I'm sure a number of our friends are going to be dealing with this.
01:03:28.240Who are the people who are more likely to break family ties over politics, break friendships, fire you, you know, disown their kids, disown their parents over political things.
01:03:39.700Leftists are more willing to do those things.
01:04:52.540And, therefore, let the other guys take the power.
01:04:54.400And then you collectivize, and they will go against you.
01:04:56.660And then, at least, there will be some type of kind of outcome of the situation.
01:04:59.960Now, it's this kind of shattered – we're doing kind of both.
01:05:02.380We're like – because I understand that people are just like, I don't even – does it even matter, you know, kind of thing.
01:05:07.340Because it might slow down a little bit.
01:05:09.720Sure, it might buy you some time, which, you know, strategically, that is a very – can be a very smart thing to do if you're trying to build something, right?
01:05:18.920If you're actually trying to organize in such a capacity that you're forming an institution.
01:05:24.940And is there anyone building anything?
01:05:27.320I think within 10 years, just as we've now seen – just as we've now seen the talking points of the, you know, quote, unquote, far right or whatever, you know, white nationalist talking points being in the halls of power.
01:05:38.160Within Europe, this is true, too, right?
01:05:45.840If that was a trend, you know, like the people kind of seeded 10 years ago, the trend now, I think, is 5, 10 years – and it's cutting it close, I get that – but I think in 5 to 10 years from now, there will be much more, you know, institutions in place.
01:06:00.920Or people at least beginning to have laid those foundations by that point of – that are exclusively, you know, activist groups, white advocacy.
01:06:11.240There might be other types of institutions, publishers, interest groups, maybe specific legal things or civil rights issues pertaining to white people.
01:06:20.800I'm still seeing that as part of the trajectory here.
01:06:27.260But as Martin Selner said recently, I mean, there is a time limit to this.
01:06:30.560We only have up to – I mean, a few decades at most.
01:06:34.600Now, you have – it's sort of a race because you do see increasing white racial consciousness.
01:06:40.140You do see these organizations being formed.
01:06:42.380And I think we should take care when we say there's no political solution.
01:06:45.620There may be no solution with – there may be no system solution.
01:06:49.580But if you have groups that are outside the state which are forming strong networks which are going to exercise power in some way, that is still a political solution.
01:06:59.060It's just not a political solution in the sense of, you know, line up and vote and, you know, you get your little sticker at the end of the day for voting team red or team blue.
01:07:08.660Anything that has to do with power is politics.
01:07:10.980And the way we win may look something like that.
01:07:13.600The thing we have to be careful about is just because you have an ideological critique of the system and how it's compromised and how these people aren't going to do what needs to be done, all of that may be correct.
01:07:24.800But even if your ideological critique is right, you can still just lose.
01:07:30.540You can still – just being right in the abstract does not automatically give you power.
01:07:34.900You can still just get run over by this demographic wave.
01:07:38.140There are lots of people in this movement from 50 years ago or even 25 years ago who predicted very accurately what was going to happen, who said, this is what's coming down the pipe, and it came.
01:07:49.880But they didn't get anything out of it.
01:07:52.500I mean, certainly if you're talking about a mainstream –
01:08:14.120I mean, you look at somebody like Pat Buchanan.
01:08:15.660I mean, this is – this guy had a platform on the main issues, you know, whatever it is, be it mass immigration, be it the Israel lobby, American foreign policy, moral decline, whatever it is, trade certainly and manufacturing.
01:08:28.920He basically called it, and he essentially paved the way for the Trump coalition.
01:08:35.940But he still hasn't gotten any recognition for it.
01:08:40.960He never exercised real political power, and even the critics who – on the left who say, well, he was right about it, it's still good that he lost because he was morally wrong.
01:08:53.800And I think that what's going to happen in the years ahead is politics is going to get – certainly online, I think it's gotten a lot dumber with, you know, everybody chasing clickbait and everything else.
01:09:04.260But I think it's going to get dumber in a more fundamental sense, which is we're not even going to debate abstractions and political philosophies and principles anymore.
01:09:11.980It's just a race – I mean, let's just say it.
01:09:15.840It's basically a somewhat peaceful race war.
01:09:20.640And in a weird way, the white pill here is that I think one of the things that the left is not going to be able to cope with very well is I think their brown and black pets are going to have a hard time following orders for much longer.
01:09:36.560I mean, one of the best examples, I think, is when you look at the Labor Party in the United Kingdom.
01:09:41.940Currently, the prime minister, Keir Starmer, I think is the most unpopular prime minister in British history.
01:09:46.860And one of the things that's really killing the Labor Party is all these Muslims who they brought in and they thought would be reliable votes are now forming their own little independent Muslim parties, mostly on Palestine and things like that.
01:09:57.560And they're getting elected to parliament under their own thing, which, of course, drains votes away from these things.
01:10:04.500And, of course, working-class white people do not vote labor anymore.
01:10:08.240They're probably going to vote reform or they're going to support some nationalist movement or whatever else.
01:10:12.080And if you look at Minneapolis in this country, I mean, you just saw kind of an amusing intra-democratic battle where you had the Jewish mayor appealing to the Somali clan loyalties of other people in the city to defeat a Somali candidate who was defeated because some of the other clans mobilized against them.
01:10:33.020It was sort of like colonial administrator divide and conquer.
01:10:36.480I mean, this is basically what politics is going to be going forward.
01:10:39.620And when this is all it is, the idea of a national good or the idea of, well, we're debating certain principles or philosophies of how we are to be governed as a democratic people, that's going to go with the boomers, man.
01:11:49.400And you can go through who started it and what organizations are responsible.
01:11:52.280But, like, this is the situation we're in now.
01:11:55.000If you wanted to stop the Somali colonization of this state, you are going to have to take citizenship away from people.
01:12:03.880You're going to have to deport people who don't want to go.
01:12:07.420You're going to have to use force essentially against an entire embedded community of thousands.
01:12:12.560How exactly do you want the president to do that?
01:12:16.460Because ultimately that is what needs to be done.
01:12:20.400And if you say, well, the president's not doing enough to get rid of this, I agree with you.
01:12:24.940But what exactly do you want him to do?
01:12:27.540And this kind of gets me back to the original point.
01:12:29.700If we want to use the – unless you have, like, some hope that the system is just going to randomly collapse or something like that, if we're talking about using the existing state structure in any way to do anything other than slow the bleeding, you're basically talking about how can you defy court orders?
01:12:48.920How can you essentially build a national reclamation government, essentially a revolutionary government, to take back America in the most literal sense?
01:12:56.580Because that is what it's going to take.
01:12:58.300Now, there are a lot of things I think President Trump could do, either within the letter of the law or sort of on the border.
01:13:05.200I mean, everybody always knows about Ilhan Omar, about, let's say, some of the questionable things she may have done in order to get into this country legally, especially involving her brother.
01:13:15.400There are certain investigations that could be done.
01:13:17.460There are certain other rules that could be done.
01:13:19.220The Trump administration has already tried to get rid of birthright citizenship.
01:13:22.160And, frankly, if the Supreme Court gets rid of birthright citizenship, I'm willing to forgive an awful lot because that would be the biggest victory basically in, like, 30 years, although I doubt the Supreme Court will do it.
01:13:31.800But you have to actually start thinking about how do you get rid of people who we all know are not Americans, but they still have this kind of paper citizenship.
01:13:44.580And this is where I think we as a movement need to get real because it is going to come to that.
01:13:51.180We're past the point where I think defensive measures are really going to accomplish anything.
01:13:56.880The best thing that can be said about President Trump is also the worst thing that can be said about him, which is he's gone about as far as you can go with purely defensive measures.
01:14:05.700He's he's solved a lot of problems. He's given us a lot of victories that I think a lot of people 15 years ago would have been ecstatic over and we're still on the same road to destruction.
01:14:16.360Yeah. Is that on him or is that because the problem is so much more deeply seated that we essentially have to operate as revolutionaries rather than conservatives?
01:14:28.020Yeah. I mean, the situation, what does that mean?
01:14:31.440I mean, it's an easy thing to say and be like, right. You know, look, I read Siege 2. Like, great. Am I like some great hero now?
01:14:38.580Like, that's all very well. I can I can yell slogans, too. But like, well, ironically, doing something productive.
01:14:45.200I'm not saying that's because when you're in that situation, that's not.
01:14:48.560But I'm saying in terms of how the the hardest thing is about is to have clearly defined what situation are we what's the rules.
01:14:56.620Right. Is it war? Right. Right. Or is it is it just some way, you know, kind of no, no, no, we'll we'll kind of take care of this.
01:15:02.880And they placate you or they, you know, they tone it down.
01:15:06.580You can't react. But then you can read the statistics of like the mass rapes, you know, in Europe and stuff, you know, and it's like this is what this that's war conditions.
01:15:14.820But you can't act like it is. Right. So it's a very hard thing.
01:15:18.460I think if it was clearly defined, like, OK, shit collapsed. Boom, it's on.
01:15:24.040Not that that would be easy. But yeah, we all want clarity.
01:15:28.320I mean, you brought it. You brought up an excellent point before where you were talking about how the left can defy court orders, but you can't.
01:15:34.680I mean, part one of the things that the left has going for it.
01:15:37.280And this is just it's not anybody's fault now.
01:15:39.380I mean, you're building off a century of organization that the right just doesn't have is they've got people who know how to use a certain amount of force up to a certain point.
01:15:49.460If you've ever been to a left wing protest, you know, for example, you've got the people in the green, you know, the legal observers.
01:15:54.840They're going to make sure that if the police try to restrain these left wing protesters, the police are going to be the ones who get punished.
01:16:00.260They may even have to pay money. You've got the protesters who are peaceful, but they're going to kind of cover for the black block guys.
01:16:06.900The black block guys are willing to go farther, but they're sort of reliant on the larger mass of peaceful protesters who do stuff.
01:16:13.940If you've ever had to deal with Antifa directly, you know, they don't nine times out of 10.
01:16:18.120They don't just attack you in the street.
01:16:20.360They try to do this passive aggressive thing where they like bump into you and then they go flying back as if you bump them and start screaming that, you know, you assaulted them and all this sort of stuff.
01:16:30.500And then you get sued. And then the reporter friends do this stuff.
01:16:33.480It's this whole thing of tactics that goes across the whole spectrum.
01:16:38.480And that's why they win in terms of is it war? Is it not war?
01:16:43.780Essentially, it's going to just like war.
01:16:47.300It's going to require a lot of different approaches that apply to different audiences.
01:16:52.020And to some extent, and this is just what's sort of cynical about it, we all kind of know, and certainly the left knows, we all kind of know what's really going on here.
01:17:01.200I mean, it is just population replacement.
01:17:03.120It is essentially a demographic struggle.
01:17:38.100There are certain other things that you can do that are still taking the offensive.
01:17:43.320And if you're like, well, what does that look like?
01:17:45.240Look at the things that the leftists may be able to do.
01:17:47.020I mean, one of the things that I think would be a really useful metric for us is if you look at federal grants, how many of these immigration groups, you know, NGOs, churches, synagogues, whatever else, but also like these immigrant lobbies, ethnic groups, how many of these groups get millions of dollars from the taxpayers essentially geopolitically organized for their side?
01:18:09.340Is there a single right wing group under the Trump administration that is being funded by the taxpayer to do right wing organizing?
01:18:18.760No, I am not interested in limited government.
01:18:21.840I am not interested in fiscal conservatism.
01:18:23.880Fiscal conservatism lost plausibility when universal suffrage became a thing at about thirty five trillion dollars in debt ago.
01:18:31.160I mean, it's just meaningless to talk about these things.
01:18:33.520You might as well talk about like, you know, exploring Jupiter or something.
01:18:37.440It's just it's just completely unrealistic nonsense to talk about cutting the size of government without talking about suffrage and things like that.
01:18:44.780What we should be talking about is what does it mean to build power?
01:18:49.100And that means fundamentally that the state is funding the guys on our side.
01:18:53.000We are already you and I are already funding leftists with our salaries, with our taxes.
01:18:57.880Yep, we're funding replacing ourselves with the taxpayer.
01:19:01.600If you're like, well, what's a what's a small scale thing to determine, like whether we're winning or losing or whether we're getting somewhere when we have right wingers being funded by the state.
01:19:11.020To do the sorts of things that we agree with, then we're getting somewhere.
01:19:15.020The only thing that I can think of that sort of builds into that, and I know it's not quite the same thing, is frankly, the expansion for ICE.
01:19:22.240I mean, there you've got a pretty sizable law enforcement slash paramilitary body, which if you look at the way they've been recruiting, is more or less openly targeting our guys for recruitment and giving them money.
01:19:34.920But I think even that is not quite what I have in mind.
01:19:37.700What I would like to see is explicitly white groups getting funding from the federal government for political things, the same way that groups of all different races and ethnicities are already getting that from the federal government.
01:20:10.120But anyway, like even Elon Musk, who's like, he can retweet, you know, Steve Laws or, you know, something like, just, you know, or Dries van der Langenhove in Belgium and his legal cases or something like.
01:20:21.280And look, and maybe there's something on the back end I don't know about or whatever.
01:20:23.760But like, just put in a couple of hundred, it's nothing to him, right?
01:20:27.440But again, I'm not sitting here waiting for like a Musk to show up.
01:20:30.260But it's very, it's fascinating to see that there's so little organized support.
01:20:36.500But is there, and if there is a Soros figure kind of on our side, then it's like what a Mark Andreessen who's like more interested in like AI than like racial preservation or something.
01:20:49.180But I mean, I think what we'd be looking at even, I mean, obviously there are people who could give money and fund all these things, and that would be great.
01:20:55.760But what I'm thinking more is like, why exactly, for example, is Red Ice not getting $100 million a year from the federal government for an independent media outreach effort to rural Americans or something funded by the taxpayers?
01:21:09.020You may say like, well, that sounds ridiculous.
01:21:10.840Well, look at the kinds of things that the federal government is already funding.
01:21:13.560I mean, I promise you, people who are more extreme than you on the other side are already being funded by our taxes.
01:21:21.320And the reason you're not going to see this, of course, and this goes back to, you know, there is an element to where this is just stupidity and naivete at the heart of the American right.
01:21:31.060We have all been carefully trained that our purpose is to be standing for limited government, efficiency, making sure that the taxpayer dollars are funded wisely, cutting the deficit.
01:21:41.880But the problem is, in a government with unlimited suffrage, all that does is build up a greater pot of treasure for the left to give to their guys once they get in again.
01:21:56.440And I always say things like, you know, it's about who, it's not about what.
01:22:00.220But there are certain perverse incentives within the system, and there's not really a way to fix these problems within the system, especially the problem of government spending.
01:22:13.540So, therefore, I think we need to change our approach to this.
01:22:16.820We need to be thinking of government as essentially a pot, a pot of treasure.
01:22:21.480And our objective is to win power, to give as much of that thing to our guys as possible, to win even more power.
01:22:28.280Because I promise you, that's how the left looks at government, and that's why they win.
01:22:47.620And, again, these are criminal – it's not just that they made the illegal act of breaking into the country illegally.
01:22:53.560They have, like, in addition to this, like, dealt drugs.
01:22:56.340They have, you know, raped someone, maybe murdered someone.
01:22:59.440They drove without a legit license or something, or they were just given it by some random state and killed a bunch of people or something.
01:23:05.400That's the guys these guys comes out and defends of, basically, right?
01:24:18.520Imagine – think of what it would take, the kind of political shift for, say, American Renaissance to be getting funded $200 million from the federal government.
01:24:29.160But that's, like, the very different definition of political insanity.
01:24:33.220But that's the kind of political shift that we have to be thinking about because that's the situation we're already in vis-a-vis the other side.
01:24:41.920And, certainly, you have to ask certain questions when they talk about civil society, when they talk about NGOs.
01:24:47.960What kind of a non-governmental organization is it when it's 90% reliant on grants from the taxpayer?
01:24:55.980To me, that's actually – and it's very clear that in Western democracies, NGOs are used to do the things that governments themselves want to do.
01:25:11.340And I forget when this becomes widely popularized, but it's going to be like the late 90s, early 2000s or something.
01:25:17.080Well, is it actually – I mean, this is one of the things I really want to look into.
01:25:20.620I wonder if this was an unfortunate outgrowth of President George W. Bush's grand scheme to give government money to religious organizations for charitable purposes because that's when this thing really took off.
01:25:33.840Now, if you remember at the time – I mean, this is a long time ago.
01:25:47.840Actually, if you look at what most of these religious groups have turned into since, they've more or less towed the line on left-wing cultural policies.
01:26:24.720And this is true, certainly, of all the mainline Protestant denominations, which at this point can really only be called Christian in name only.
01:26:53.660I mean, you can argue that it's – that goes back to the very foundation of the church itself.
01:26:57.920But regardless, right, this idea of – you just need to grow in number.
01:27:00.540We don't care if it's Africans or, you know, whatever demographic group, Asians.
01:27:04.140We just want to grow bigger, and part of the reason why they kind of embraced Woke or whatever was like, oh, that's what we need to do now to be popular.
01:27:14.480And then all of a sudden, you know, there's such fast curveballs, if you will, in the culture war now that all of a sudden it's like – you know, they're always late, though, and delayed.
01:27:22.940But maybe in a year or two, they were like, oh, that's not cool anymore to rap on stage or something.
01:27:29.280I mean, the real big giveaway, I think, was when I believe it was the Episcopal Church scrapped its refugee program rather than help the white Afrikaners that were admitted to this country.
01:29:03.380Maybe it's on that level, but that's probably just part of it.
01:29:06.520It's going to come in very – I think just a collective punishment.
01:29:09.440Like, if the idea was that Trump wanted to close the borders and restore white America, we have to morally do the opposite.
01:29:18.440And so I just think the expectation is just, like, just let's not only undo the little that he managed to do, but let's do it even more, right?
01:29:27.900Yeah, they'll just open the borders straight up.
01:29:30.640They'll just – federal grants to build the last stretch in the Dorian Gap, right?
01:29:35.780To actually build – connect the bridge there.
01:29:37.880They'll build a monument to, like, illegal immigrants along the southern border or something like that.
01:29:42.320I actually expect that will happen at some point.
01:29:44.240And I think you'll see a lot more DEI stuff in education because they'll say, like, well, we need to educate people to make sure this never happens again.
01:29:51.200This needs to be the primary purpose of education.
01:29:53.500Just like they said during COVID, you know, the primary purpose of health care needs to be studying for equity and diversity and things like that.
01:30:00.200I mean, these sorts of arguments have a way of taking over any institution into which they're admitted.
01:30:06.340I think what I would really be on the lookout for is you're going to see a very serious attempt to get around the First Amendment.
01:30:12.320And I don't just mean more censorship because, obviously, you'll be that.
01:30:15.740I don't just mean the return of all these banking regulations.
01:30:18.340Like, one thing, for example, that the Trump administration gets full credit for is the fact that American Renaissance, for example, New Century Foundation can now accept credit card payments.
01:30:26.920The only reason that happened, maybe this is true of a number of other people, the only reason that happened is because the Trump administration basically said to the banks, you have to stop financially deplatforming people.
01:31:24.080That's actually just being a good university professor or reporter or NGO worker or something.
01:31:29.460But I think you are going to see certain kinds of speech are held to be something you can be sued for, something that is regarded under the law as emotionally harmful, something you can use to shut down online debate.
01:31:44.040We're never going to get back the kind of free speech things that we took for granted in 2012.
01:31:49.440And I think in many ways, people look at me and I'm crazy when I say this, but I think in many ways that's one of the biggest missed opportunities of the Trump administration.
01:31:57.720I think First Amendment protections should have been mandated for a lot of these mainstream platforms using the authority you have, even under the Civil Rights Act, where you say you have to have universal access to these things because we're still in a position where the censorship has come off our necks a little bit, but it's nothing systematic.
01:32:20.200And a lot of these tech CEOs are fond of saying things like, well, we went too far in 2020, but now we're going to bring these people back.
01:33:21.520Like you'll be, what I'm saying is part of the, and that's why I partially talk about AI and who controls it and all those things too,
01:33:27.120because that will be baked into the cake of the repressive government, you know, policies that are coming where you basically do a violation of term.
01:33:35.900It will be like social media, but real life, right?
01:33:38.700The gamification of life, whatever you want to call it, right?
01:33:40.740Where you're like, no, you violated the terms of service, right?
01:34:22.840No, instead, now it's the opposite way.
01:34:24.500And now they can be used as a kind of held against you as a pressure point instead.
01:34:29.880You better not, you know, go across the line here or else, right?
01:34:33.480One of the things that I've often toyed with, if I were ever to run for office, I think would be to embrace a policy of necessary fiscal nihilism, let's call it, which is that, look, we already have socialism in the United States basically for blacks and browns in terms of free food and disability and all these sorts of things.
01:34:52.700Like they just don't have to pay for stuff.
01:34:54.000And I think this is one of the things that sort of drove what happened in New York City.
01:34:58.700I think a lot of struggling lower middle class white people are looking around and saying, well, nobody is really providing for my kind of stuff.
01:35:32.720I would actually do that from the right.
01:35:34.320I would go so far as to say, like, everybody gets EBT.
01:35:38.180Everybody gets all these programs because, look, America is into the looting phase right now, and already everybody else is living off of us.
01:36:01.600And this is to get back to where we started a little bit.
01:36:06.080This is sort of the weird thing about where the Trump administration is because they can't just break the system without, you know, the economy collapsing and prices going through the roof and they lose, you know, every election and all these things happen.
01:36:20.940But also trying to save the system is, you could argue, is morally corrupt and also probably impossible.
01:36:27.740I think with a little bit more time, we're at a point where some pretty interesting political experiments could be played out because we really don't have a stake in this thing going on the way it has been.
01:36:40.720We actually have no obligation to save this thing whatsoever.
01:36:43.760We certainly don't have an obligation to make ourselves politically unpopular to do sound fiscal policies to keep it all stumbling along or make sure that American military power is still the strongest in the world if this power is not being exercised in our own interests.
01:36:59.280I think there's a lot of very interesting political possibilities ahead.
01:37:02.880Well, it starts getting really interesting when you have nothing left to lose, right?
01:38:49.340If there's such an incredible force politically, how can they displace, what is that, 5 point, I don't know, whatever, million other people?
01:39:00.600I doubt this, but it shows you something interesting.
01:39:04.520So I'm not saying those statistics are correct, but it does show you something interesting, as we know from historical record.
01:39:10.740It can take a very small minority that are highly organized to influence massive amounts of things.
01:39:17.780I remember that you brought up the UK.
01:39:19.060I know I'm throwing out a lot of things here at the same time, but you mentioned the UK earlier.
01:39:23.560And I just remember that clip, too, with Farage or whatever, whoever it was, reform, you know, they're having their heyday now over in the UK.
01:40:43.360It's not a question of whether you can take over the system by voting.
01:40:46.060But if we can't get a single person in anywhere who says, I am representing white interests, just about everything else that we're talking about in terms of a possible solution sounds fanciful.
01:41:00.120I mean, at some point, the brutal truth, I think the potential is there.
01:41:03.920But the brutal truth is that at some point, somebody has to organize something and win something.
01:41:09.520It's not just a question of we talk ourselves in circles about who has the most based ideology or who has the most hardcore brand or whatever else.
01:41:17.200Like at some point, somebody actually has to take control of some level of power and use it.
01:41:22.780Now, what that looks like does not necessarily mean elections.
01:41:25.160There are a number of different things that can be done, but they have to be done and to express dissatisfaction with what the Trump administration is able to do.
01:41:35.020I think it's accurate, but it also doesn't get you anything in the end unless we have an alternative.
01:41:40.120So there's a couple of reasons, I think, for why we ended up in this situation, and partially it's because we've had governments that looked after us.
01:41:46.160I think maybe this is even more true, of course, in, you know, specifically Scandinavian countries, maybe more so like further north up Europe you go.
01:41:53.900The state was like your mom and your dad, you know, kind of thing.
01:41:57.160And although, of course, at the time, there's advantages to that.
01:42:00.020They managed to create a high trust society.
01:42:01.840The policies wasn't always right, of course.
01:42:03.560But over time, as the culture has shifted and as the politics have become globalized or whatever, now all of a sudden you're stuck with a population that's completely dependent on their government to handle them, to organize them, to tell them what to do.
01:42:15.480And I think these trends are largely true in the U.S. as well, or specifically for white people, I think.
01:42:20.180And the problem is now we're thinking, oh, shit, like we got to take the country back.
01:42:29.320Can you take, I don't know, your neighborhood back?
01:42:32.640Can you take your, whatever local little group it is you have going on or something, or maybe some other interest or hobby group or something, can you take that over?
01:43:13.220We need to learn again how to be a people, how to organize, how to do things for ourselves.
01:43:19.860We've been bred the last few, you could argue probably generations, but especially the last few decades that, like, you are dependent on the state.
01:43:27.840And then all of a sudden the state pulled the rug from out and under us and said, actually, in fact, we consider you the enemy now.
01:44:26.840It's just we are at some point going to have to have a gathering of the tribes, so to speak, where you have all these different groups coming together for a common interest.
01:44:48.620I often come off as pretty pessimistic, but I'm more optimistic now, and this is something Jared Taylor said at the last American Renaissance a couple weeks ago.
01:44:56.260He said he's more optimistic now than he's ever been, and I think one of the reasons for that is that we do have a mass constituency in a way we didn't before.
01:45:06.100When I first started off in this movement, I wrote, let's just say, more extreme stuff, right?
01:45:12.040Much more uncensored stuff going all out with a lot of these things.
01:45:16.880And you know what happened was nothing.
01:45:22.640The people at my normal political job more or less knew what I was doing and knew what I thought about stuff, and they didn't particularly care.
01:45:34.340You were just sort of exercising emotion.
01:45:36.440You were making arguments in the abstract, and maybe they were interesting, and maybe you thought they were true and whatever else, but they didn't have practical importance in the real world.
01:45:46.860Now white people are beginning to become a political force.
01:45:50.000We're not there yet, but it's happening, and it's happening maybe too slowly, and there is a time limit here.
01:45:56.540But the sorts of ideas that we're talking about now have a practical importance, and people are living their lives and forming their careers and forming families and forming groups based on these ideas.
01:46:07.320That is something to be very optimistic about because that was not true even 15 years ago.
01:46:16.020And I guess my comment was aimed at those like, okay, so if you don't have an in with those people or know where to find them, I guess, in some way for the sake of learning experience, you should do it, right?
01:46:29.040I know these things are hard, but with that, as they do get more successful and more organized, you'll end up sitting.
01:46:34.580Because look at how many HR people there are in these departments.
01:46:38.060They're just getting paid massive amounts of money to do shit, or at least maybe make sure white people can't get in there or something, but still.
01:46:54.920We need like, it needs to be institutionalized, if you will, on our side in the sense that like, we actually like, you know, generate income for the, you know, a local community or whatever.
01:47:04.200You can actually pay a couple of people just to work with this for our interests full time and doing those things.
01:47:10.540And actually pushing, you know, pushing our agenda in different ways, just helping, you realize how hard it is, even to just organize people in a coherent way, right?
01:47:19.580Even in terms of the numbers, how you bring them together, you got to delegate, you got, you know what I mean?
01:47:24.420Like there's these, there's, you need to learn, we need to learn all these things.
01:47:28.900And so there's a great opportunity here to get in on this game and getting some skill, or at least talking to someone who knows how to do some of these things.
01:47:36.880Because we have to build a lot of this from the ground up ourselves.
01:47:39.720No one else is going to, if not us, who, right?
01:47:42.280That's as I say, no one else, don't sit and wait on your ass that someone's going to show up and save you, because they're not.
01:47:50.960If we don't, if we who know this stuff don't do anything about it, we're more guilty than the people who just don't know anything at all and just don't even interest in politics, right?
01:48:02.340I mean, if you look at those No Kings protests that the progressives put on a couple weeks ago, I mean, that was a very impressive organizational feat.
01:48:09.020And it boosies us to ask, would you be able to put together a local protest in your community?
01:48:13.280Certainly, there have been a lot of right-wing active groups that have tried things over the last 10 years.
01:48:25.160You have to actually see where the potential supporters are in your community.
01:48:29.000You have to power map, as the leftists say, and see where the people you have to approach are.
01:48:32.760When I was working at the Leadership Institute, that was the Conservative Inc. company that basically gave me my first job.
01:48:38.760What they said was political victory is determined by the number of effective activists on each side.
01:48:44.520I think that's a very useful, pragmatic way of looking at building political power.
01:48:50.560What does it mean to have effective political activists on their side?
01:48:53.740Partially, it means taking the people you already have and making them more effective through training, through experience, through building their willpower, through ideological indoctrination and cadre building and all these sorts of things.
01:49:06.060But also, it means getting resources so you can pay people, so you can free them up to do things that are productive for the cause instead of doing things that they don't necessarily want to do or may not even be good at just to pay the bills.
01:49:21.120I mean, I think that the average one activist on our side is worth 10 on the other side.
01:49:28.380But the problem is that for every one of ours, they have like 1,000.
01:49:31.540And one of the reasons they have that is because we're paying their salaries.
01:49:50.700That's one of the things I want – I don't know if that's what started it, but the timing seems to make sense because there was not – you don't remember – I don't know, when we were kids or something like that.
01:50:00.660You don't remember refugee resettlement as being the primary thing that your church did.
01:51:10.000Mass constituency organizations being formed, greater development of willpower, greater ideological seriousness.
01:51:16.440One thing – and I'm not sure there's a way to work around this.
01:51:19.120I mean you and I both said earlier, neurosis is almost a political advantage.
01:51:22.620And the fact that most of the insane people – and I mean insane by their own standards – are on the left is actually a political advantage.
01:51:29.600There's no scenario where you or I or, frankly, anybody watching this is going to stay up for 30 hours straight editing Wikipedia articles to smear the other side.
01:51:40.940Like that is what you're dealing with.
01:51:42.420And the solution to that is not let's be more neurotic than they are.
01:51:47.260We have to think of a different way of operating that allows us to overcome that.
01:51:51.340Building certain kinds of functional institutions within our communities where people are making money, owning property, building solidarity, becoming anti-fragile, being able to stand up against these kinds of things.
01:52:01.760That may be what this looks like as opposed to just trying to out – I thought you were just going to say it.
01:52:18.240But even the way they do things, even the people who fixate on a certain cultural issue and go nuts, they don't go after it quite the same way that a leftist does.
01:52:40.380But to say – I don't think we can necessarily use left-wing tactics to our advantage all the time.
01:52:48.660I used to talk on Saul Linsky all the time when I was doing conservative stuff.
01:52:52.700And Rules for Radicals is an interesting book.
01:52:54.720There are a lot of interesting things that you can learn from it there.
01:52:56.880But a lot of the things that Saul Linsky and other left-wing radicals would use as tactics, they just don't work for us because they presuppose having the media on your side.
01:53:07.620They presuppose having this kind of like liberal morality that you can use.
01:53:11.840I think to say that we can just operate as left-wingers, certainly we can adopt some of the revolutionary spirit, certainly we've got to adopt the attitude of seriousness and existential struggle.
01:53:23.580But we can't just use their tactics and expect it to work.
01:53:27.280Doing that is like saying, well, we are facing this demographic situation.
01:53:45.380You can't be something other than you are.
01:53:47.040If you look at the RK selection thing, I mean, for the most part, we're more interested in high investment parenting as opposed to just plopping down.
01:53:52.740I mean, look, there's some great people that we know that, you know, God's blessed them, but they can have tons of kids and somehow they're pulling it off.
01:54:00.020And I think it is just harder for whites because we put more emphasis on quality, not quantity.
01:54:08.440Of course, we have to push up against that and do as much as we can anyway, right?
01:54:12.280But it's a totally different fundamental starting point to begin with, right?
01:54:18.680And that's the metaphor I'm using with these tactics.
01:54:21.480It's not, we need to think of, if you think of this in terms of children comparing this to political tactics, the kind of tactics we need to be using need to be more high investment, high return, as opposed to just acting crazily in all directions.
01:55:06.280So, despite the fact that they have those institutions, let's say, that you mentioned, the leftists, it's interesting that they also, though, just seem to kind of have them in place or preserve them so that they can attack their enemy, us.
01:55:23.260In other words, I think it is true that they're genuinely not interested in actually building anything or doing it.
01:55:29.520Their interest is literally just to, like, tear us down and destroy things.
01:55:40.820Nobody says that except you're on the far right.
01:55:42.640Left is fundamentally about egalitarianism.
01:55:45.940The right is fundamentally about hierarchy.
01:55:47.560The left is fundamentally about entropy.
01:55:49.140The right is fundamentally about order.
01:55:51.140And the left can never admit that it is in power.
01:55:56.460There can be no self-conscious left-wing regime that can ever admit we won because to admit that we have won, that we are wielding power, that we are sovereign, is to no longer be a leftist.
01:56:10.040It is to deny oneself because the whole thing is built upon a critique of power and reducing things to the level of equality.
01:56:17.460And so it is a permanent revolution in the fullest sense.
01:56:21.300There's no point, and this is critical for right-wingers to understand, there's no point at which you can give them enough stuff and then they go, okay, we're satisfied.
01:56:31.960Because you're not talking about anything real.
01:56:34.240Like, the actual concrete policies that you're discussing don't really matter.
01:56:39.320You're talking about a greater spirit of deconstruction.
01:56:57.160And even if they eradicated white people, you're going to see the same people, probably with less developed pros, screaming about how white racism still dominates everything they do.
01:57:08.580I mean, even in something like Haiti, you'll have, like, the blacks complaining about the colors and saying that they're ruining everything because they're more white.
01:57:35.660And, oh, in fact, that's what I want to say.
01:57:37.780So even when they've achieved all those victories, right, like where is the white supremacist, you know, kind of like, they will invent new ones.
01:57:46.600They will create a new group that's victimized.
01:57:49.000They will, like, this is why it's a mythology, right?
01:57:51.840This is kind of why it's unwinnable at the same time because they don't even operate in the real world anymore.
01:57:57.040It's just like a – this is what I think the whole woke thing was about, right?
01:58:00.740When we think about what are the kinds of things that we need to do in terms of building the kinds of institutions we need, doing effective political activism, it's going to look a lot different than the way leftists operate because leftism's great advantage is precisely that it's impossible, that it can never win.
01:58:18.540There was this saying among young Americans for freedom.
01:58:20.560This was a conservative youth group in the 1960s and it was don't amenitize the eschaton.
01:58:24.320Basically, it means don't try to demand the supernatural state of grace like in the real world.
01:58:33.420You and I can both probably name specific times in history, specific regimes, specific periods where it may not be everything that we want, but we'd be like, yeah, that's good enough.
01:58:46.560A leftist can never do that unless it's like some obscure thing like, oh, the anarchists in Catalonia for like two weeks at the beginning of the Spanish Civil War.
01:58:55.900You know, like it's never anything real because it's because it's impossible that you're always being driven by this frenzy against injustice or thinking that the worst time in history, the most fierce oppression is what's happening to you right now.
01:59:17.040And that's something that – Joe Sobern had a thing where he said to really make a leftist confused, ask him in what kind of society would he be a conservative?
01:59:28.820There's never really an answer to that question.
01:59:41.580Let's – I mean there's – my boss and I, Jared Taylor, often have debates about whether – when people make foolish arguments, whether they're making it in bad faith or not.
01:59:51.820Mr. Taylor is a much more trusting soul than I am.
01:59:54.600He thinks that these people are given to naivete, whereas I think these people are more often given to malice.
02:00:02.280So Hassan Piker was recently in China, and of course he couldn't get enough of how great the Chinese system was and how great all these wonderful things were.
02:00:09.360And then when he came back, of course he was doing interviews, including with so-called conservatives, same conservatives who won't talk to us.
02:00:41.140No – any kind of the social dysfunction that you see on the streets of American cities.
02:00:46.180If you saw people acting on the subways there the way people act here, I mean, the secret police are going to come and throw you in a prison forever, and they're just never going to hear from them again.
02:00:55.180Now, if one were to say, okay, Hassan Piker, we are going to start implementing Chinese government-style policies toward culture, toward crime, towards the aesthetics of cities, toward the military, toward the fundamental direction of the nation state, is he going to say, actually, this is great?
02:01:36.020That is the actual pattern that you see over and over and over again.
02:01:40.220I mean, again, it's always kind of funny when you see these leftists say things like, oh, China is doing so great, because let's be honest.
02:01:46.780If there's one large country in the world that can recognizably be called national socialist, it's probably the People's Republic of China.
02:02:11.740Yeah, but Kissing is fine to platform these – again, and it kind of goes back to the idea we talked about.
02:02:16.760And just a quick note on that, and then we'll take some of the super chats here before we begin wrapping up.
02:02:21.200But it does feel like it's this – and I'm sure you have your thoughts on this, too, and obviously working with Jared and American Renaissance and now doing the Identity Politics show and all that stuff, right?
02:02:32.120That it was this period like we were just kind of held down and then it was like allowed for other content creators to now basically more or less kind of have the same talking points that people like us did and still do to a certain extent and kind of allowed to roam free.
02:02:50.700And I always found that fascinating that like there seems to be in this concerted effort to like, okay, well, you can talk about certain things, but these people cannot talk about those specific things.
02:03:01.300And I've always wondered is this to make – because they're fine ultimately with the Candace Owens, right?
02:03:06.940She's not going to be able – she can't advocate for our people, right?
02:03:09.800It's not – right, and it's also – it's just a game, right?
02:03:13.100I mean you're just saying, oh, Bridgette Marcone or whatever her name is, is a man and all UFOs are over here and all this kind of stuff.
02:03:20.000You can bring down the other arguments with those – what comes with that, right?
02:03:25.860Josh Neal, who has a book for Antelope Hill called – I believe it's Intolerant Interpretations.
02:03:30.720I had him on Identity Pox early on, and he has a mechanism where he talks about conspiracy theories.
02:03:38.060And the issue, of course, is not that – I mean I tend to be skeptical of them, but everybody has certain conspiracies they believe in, right?
02:03:44.100I mean we've all seen actual conspiracies that actually happen.
02:03:47.660You may have even been involved in them.
02:03:49.160If you've been involved in an election and there was some sort of a campaign trick that worked, guess what?
02:03:53.740You were involved in a conspiracy, right?
02:03:55.240The issue with a conspiracy theory is you have to ask yourself, well, what is the takeaway?
02:04:01.540What is the practical action from this thing?
02:04:05.360Because if you have a conspiracy theory that says, well, this group, this intellectual movement, this ethnic group, this whatever is in control or responsible for this thing, there is actually something you can do about it, right?
02:04:23.660When you have conspiracies where it's, well, it's aliens, well, it's demons, well, it's this supernatural force and whatever else, whether you believe in the conspiracy or not doesn't really matter.
02:04:36.080There's no practical import to anything you're being told here.
02:04:40.300So essentially it just becomes entertainment.
02:04:44.440And I think the reason that a lot of these things get a hearing now is precisely because they are entertaining, precisely because they can't lead to concrete action.
02:04:54.740I mean, one of the reasons I stress white identity politics so much is it's something concrete.
02:05:05.480One of the big things that we have to think about too is obviously there are, it's tempting to say, well, the more extreme you are, the less likely you are to be platformed.
02:05:16.400And that's certainly true to some extent, but it's not always true.
02:05:20.300I mean, I would say in many ways, I'm more extreme than my boss, Jared Taylor, but Jared Taylor has probably been censored just about more than anybody I know.
02:05:31.080I mean, certainly if you look at what happened before, he's kind of been let go a little bit.
02:05:36.860But if you look at like Nick Fuentes, Jared Taylor, a few others, I mean, they were pretty much de-platformed from everything, while people who were more extreme were not.
02:05:50.300I mean, certainly I don't think anybody, even people who may have their criticisms of him, would say Jared Taylor is the most extreme guy in the sphere.
02:05:58.040But he has gotten probably the most extreme censorship, or at least comparably extreme censorship, to everybody else in the sphere.
02:06:05.260So you have to ask the question, well, what is the point of the censorship?
02:06:08.700Is it to prevent extremism, or is it to prevent effectiveness?
02:06:15.420Someone who speaks to people, someone who can actually connect with people, and is like, hey, look, this makes sense, right, kind of thing.
02:06:20.940So yeah, no, it's exactly, it's different.
02:06:23.680Yeah, so now can Tucker have Jared Taylor on his goddamn podcast, or what?
02:07:47.960But, yeah, I mean, yeah, he's Mamdami is whatever he needs to be, right?
02:07:52.900He's kind of a, he's a perfect politician.
02:07:55.180To the leftists, he's radical, you know, to the Muslims, he's radical Muslims.
02:07:59.240To the Zionists, he's a good friend of Israel, right?
02:08:01.420But this is the nature now in a multiracial and therefore multi, you know, ethnic political sphere, right?
02:08:09.800Where, like, you have to be, I mean, there's even clips out there where he's, like, changing dialect depending on what country he showed up to.
02:08:32.120No, but, I mean, it's an interesting point.
02:08:34.180I mean, because a lot of people will say, like, well, you know, he was anti-Zionist and everything else.
02:08:37.860And then, of course, I think it was, like, a week before the election, he did the speech where he said, oh, well, actually, if you support the state of Israel, that doesn't mean you're not going to get a job in my administration.
02:08:47.180I mean, it's not, you know, something you're going to be banned over.
02:08:50.380But, certainly, I don't think we need to imagine that being pro-white would be welcome.
02:08:55.060Certainly, he's never compromised on any of the anti-white stuff.
02:08:58.400I mean, we can look at these groups and we can say, okay, well, he has this to say about this group.
02:09:42.440Like, if you have a foreign interest nation willing to deceit and undermine and blackmail and do criminal things to get their way, it's not going to catch them on some morality kind of thing or whatever, right?
02:10:06.900He shows who was arrested, who was on the plane, who was indicted from this, who had a relationship with Epstein, who donated to him.
02:10:13.000Like, you can piece this puzzle together and pretty much get a good idea that this is not some Democrat hoax.
02:10:19.060This is deeply infested into the entire political sphere, and it shows you the nature of the problem that we're faced with in terms of, like, oh, I want to change this and do that.
02:10:29.280You're never going to do it with people like this involved.
02:10:31.680They're beholden to completely other interests than ours, right?
02:10:35.460I imagine that what's happening now, the sort of intelligence operations, are something more sophisticated and probably less focused on sex than this was.
02:10:45.480I mean, the thing with Epstein's operation is it seems fairly crude.
02:10:48.260What's probably happening now, especially with the kind of technology that is now available to people, it's probably a lot more.
02:10:55.200And you have to ask yourself, and this, I hate to almost say this because it's like, well, what do you do with this information?
02:11:00.480But the thing that always makes you wonder, the thing that maybe even keeps you up at night sometimes is once you get to a certain level of prominence in any field, is there sort of an approach where it's like, okay, you need to play ball with these institutions.
02:11:18.600You need to play ball with this thing or we're going to destroy you because you certainly can see how that's plausible, how that could be done.
02:11:27.800But, of course, you can't prove that one way or the other.
02:11:30.280It's just something that's always kind of there.
02:11:32.880I mean, if you had said the Epstein files, if you had talked about that 20 years ago, I mean, that would be the definition of lunacy.
02:11:39.420You would not listen to anybody who screamed about this kind of stuff, but here we are.
02:27:04.900Then we have Charles Turner Jr., Johansson, Lior Dumand, Eyes Open, Single Action Army, Lord H.P. Lovecraft, Trevor, Der Schwabe, Alcyon, The Boo Man, Aurelian, Perfect Brute, Greg M. J. Barr, Chris W., and Skarsinski.