Red Ice TV - Why Do You Never Hear About Black Serial Killers？ - Justin Cottrell

00:00:00.000 good to be back with you guys hope you're doing well hope you've had a good day i'm henrik this

00:00:28.680 is red ice tv in case you're new check out our website redice.tv and of course redicemembers.com

00:00:34.900 for more you know we covered the domer stuff a while back you guys might have seen the segment

00:00:40.480 that we did on that it was kind of really if you think about it was about the um kind of the identity

00:00:45.240 really around the killer right netflix had initially put domer in with uh they put an lgbtq tag on the

00:00:54.540 show and uh that was that didn't go down too well they wanted domer just to be a white guy right now

00:01:00.520 it's like well what does it matter that he's gay kind of thing right and consequently uh in the wake 0.84

00:01:05.780 of that and actually in the segment we did we showed a book called rise of the black serial killer as a

00:01:10.640 as an example of how the media constantly skews this right and it's very one-sided every time

00:01:16.200 there's a serial killer tv show or movie or something like that it's i i dare to say 95 percent of the

00:01:22.680 time i could be wrong on that but it's it's it's a white guy and if if he does have any other kind

00:01:28.540 of identity then that's usually kind of pushed to the side so anyway we're we're fortunate enough to

00:01:33.600 have the author of that book with us today justin cuttrell uh who joins us to discuss the book and

00:01:39.360 and talk actually do a deep dive into this uh topic so justin welcome to the show good to have you

00:01:43.940 here no thanks for having me glad to be here you bet you bet so yeah so i said we we showed that book

00:01:49.740 like a couple of weeks ago now i think it was uh rise of the black serial killer documenting a

00:01:55.060 startling trend is back from 2012 first release so it actually is a 10-year anniversary here uh this

00:02:01.560 year which is it's good timing um and of course we can talk about some of the modern stuff later or

00:02:05.940 like some recent you know tv shows and some recent events even that actually have happened we just had

00:02:09.800 one in uh california now another serial killer and in some cases when they're not white the media

00:02:15.360 i don't tend to spend too much time on it but before we dive deep into that tell us why you

00:02:19.680 wanted to uh write the book uh justin well i was uh on facebook um gosh it's been i think 2007 or so

00:02:27.360 when i got on facebook and i was in some you know facebook was kind of the wild west and you could get

00:02:32.580 away with a lot of stuff and say what you wanted without going to facebook jail and i got in a debate

00:02:38.220 with a gal who was a black gal from the south she was actually a southern nationalist of all things

00:02:43.140 and she admitted that blacks they kind of they hold the uh the record you know should i say um for 0.51

00:02:53.760 violent murders uh in the u.s every year and she said but they're not serial killers i said well 0.85

00:02:58.780 there's black serial killers and so i looked up a few names and put it in there and there were other

00:03:02.740 people debating in this group too and and i found i think 30 and she goes yeah but there's hundreds of

00:03:07.260 white serial killers i said well there's got to be more than 30 so i started looking and i found what i

00:03:11.540 could and i went and checked out books of the library order books online and i got the number

00:03:16.440 up to about 100 and uh you know came back to her and she goes okay you're getting there but still

00:03:20.120 they're not the majority they're they're still just a minority compared to white serial killers 0.91

00:03:24.340 and the more and more i dove into it the more i found and i found a database from radford university

00:03:32.260 out of virginia and i think they had 430 at the time which was the biggest they have the biggest

00:03:37.520 database next to the fbi on serial killers and i thought wow here we go we're finally on to

00:03:42.880 something so i went and painstakingly looked up every single one of those and uh fact checked them

00:03:49.380 i guess you could say and then when i was in the process i kept finding new ones i thought man am i

00:03:54.320 just going crazy here how did these professional criminologists and um psychologists miss all this

00:04:00.860 you know how the fbi missed this how how is this guy that you know i'm a carpenter by trade i build

00:04:06.000 homes how how am i finding this and so that's kind of where it took off from there and by the time i

00:04:13.300 had the book published that gal whatever her name was wasn't even on facebook anymore that i could find 0.98

00:04:18.340 and so she's kind of a uh nameless person i i don't even know her name so she was the one that dared me to

00:04:26.940 find it and so she got me started and it was about a five-year journey before i started uh you know

00:04:32.080 before i published the book so all right well good did you give her credit uh the book i actually did

00:04:38.420 i just don't i wish i couldn't remember her name yeah um so i can kind of you know remember an avatar

00:04:44.040 picture of her and of course you know knowing the way facebook works and the feds work there's no 0.98

00:04:48.640 telling if she was really a real person so that's right absolutely all right good good stuff so so what

00:04:54.160 is that down to let's i guess begin there i mean trends i mean the fbi we show statistics sometimes

00:05:01.000 sometimes on this show right to the representation of of certain racial groups when it comes to violence

00:05:06.160 and violent crime and things like that but in this genre of crime if that's the right word for it uh it

00:05:12.620 seems to be at least in people's minds just as you say like the the girl you talked with her her

00:05:16.800 mindset was like no it's just it's basically just whites doing these kinds of things what does that

00:05:21.100 perception come from do you think well i think i'm going to click over to and make a i've got all

00:05:26.000 sorts of notes here sure yeah um it it comes mostly from the media and um the lacks of reporting and the

00:05:33.100 thing you've got to remember too the term serial killer itself is actually a very modern term i mean

00:05:38.080 it's less than uh 50 years old the term and so before that in the media um i've been able to query a

00:05:45.480 lot of um archived newspapers and newspapers and magazines that aren't even in print anymore

00:05:49.880 and what i found is they call them slayers they call them killers they call them um um even creeper

00:05:56.180 sometimes you're like oh you think of a creeper or someone peeping in a window but they would call

00:05:59.840 sometimes a murderer that and so it just kind of depended upon the era that they were reporting but

00:06:05.480 um so the serial murderer you know the the term didn't come about until the late 60s early 70s

00:06:12.740 and even then because of the civil rights movement the media never would touch it um you know uh

00:06:19.180 but as far as you know movies i did an exhaustive search you know man this is a 2012 statistic and

00:06:27.580 i did update this in 2018 but i found that there was right around 500 movies i think it's like 505

00:06:33.380 that cover serial killers and there's only five that cover black serial killers there's two on the

00:06:39.480 which were a kind of a biopic there's two the candy man series if you remember that and there's

00:06:45.240 one called switchback with danny glover where he's a serial killer and outside that there's nothing

00:06:50.060 there's absolutely nothing and so um and it's so bad that even um i think i have it somewhere in my

00:06:56.440 notes but there was a serial killer in um arizona um gosh i can't remember his name right now i'm sorry

00:07:03.080 i've lost it but anyways yeah they did a movie about him and they actually showed a white guy as the

00:07:10.700 killer in the movie but in real life he killed eight people in phoenix arizona the baseline killer

00:07:15.480 that's that's what he went by okay and the name of the movie is the baseline killer so you have

00:07:19.600 things like that and people see this and they're like wow there's that deranged white guy there look 0.57

00:07:23.700 he killed all those um no in real life he was a black guy did uh did anybody happen to complain over 0.83

00:07:29.560 cultural appropriation of that particular role i assume not that in that case they're happy to take

00:07:35.780 that that one right i mean you you know we've seen so many shows and movies recently you know the

00:07:40.320 mermaid and pinocchio and like all these white characters have been replaced uh in this case if

00:07:45.500 you actually put a white guy in there most of the people seems to be fine with and and again obviously

00:07:49.300 for obvious reasons it's that disassociation that people wants to do like no no it's only it's only

00:07:54.240 whites that are i mean in some way it's down to like people's perception maybe that well

00:07:59.260 are white people more uh clever i i think that the dommer the people that did reviews on the

00:08:05.160 dommer show they were they were driving a lot like salon to some other you know online papers and

00:08:10.680 stuff they're writing about this and they kind of drove the line that no you see he could uh let me

00:08:15.260 say they try to basically say that it was because of racism right america is a racist country and so

00:08:19.480 so he he could just fit in he could hide among the police essentially and they trusted him as opposed to

00:08:25.400 uh you know minorities so to speak yeah um but of course as we know that that that's not uh the case

00:08:30.780 so there's so many out there that we've never even heard about and media is just basically not

00:08:36.340 making these turning these into major stories i guess right exactly and that's what i found um you

00:08:43.240 know since my book came out even though it's not you know i it's it doesn't support me by any means

00:08:48.880 um it's just because uh book writing is a tough it's it's it's more about you know a hobby yeah but at

00:08:55.460 the same time what i found is i've you know had people email me occasionally or will call me and

00:09:00.800 say hey we heard your book quoted on national media but they didn't give you credit you know

00:09:04.300 they're like we'll read a line out of there but but i've noticed that there's more like the guy that

00:09:09.680 was a sunday morning caught in stockton california there's more that where they actually label him a

00:09:14.560 serial killer um because before that they wouldn't even label him a serial killer they would just

00:09:19.120 they might say there's a hunt for a serial killer and not or they would say one was caught and they

00:09:24.480 wouldn't show any picture so you had no way of knowing the general you know public of well what's

00:09:28.880 his race and then not only that they put it on the back page where nobody looks yeah you know in the

00:09:32.940 newspaper yeah and so but but even outside that i've got here's a story um this is one that i

00:09:38.700 discovered um out of uh denver colorado vincent daryl grove he killed at least 14 women and maybe as

00:09:45.340 high as 18 according to him him they just didn't find four of the bodies but they were some

00:09:51.720 unbelievable murders as far as brutality he had overkill he did uh mutilated corpses and things

00:09:59.060 like that but outside of denver nobody carried the story when it came out and it was uh the early

00:10:05.540 2000s denver itself had a 250 word article that was on the third page of the denver times and with no

00:10:13.640 picture racial description and so even people inside denver had no idea this guy who he was what he

00:10:19.900 looked like or anything and so um and there's a lot more than that i mean i've got you know through

00:10:26.040 my book i talk about how many uh times this happens where you know you even have serial killers in the

00:10:31.780 same town where you have a white guy that's highlighted and then a black guy that gets no

00:10:36.320 attention whatsoever huh interesting yeah that that is crazy it's obviously dishonest and i you know i think

00:10:42.360 that's true for many other crime stories as well i mean we cover this in both in america but even

00:10:46.900 in europe when it happens we just had a uh a murder of a young girl in france i don't know if you've

00:10:51.980 even caught some of that it's kind of recent lola was her name and stuff like that too and immediate

00:10:55.900 the media don't really cover they turned out later of course it was like oh the four people were from

00:11:00.180 algeria but they you know usually what's the case is if you don't hear a description or in some case

00:11:05.320 even a name you assume that you know at least we've left to assume that like okay then it's probably

00:11:10.520 not a white person you know yeah and what i've noticed too i noticed this years ago i grew up in

00:11:16.960 oklahoma city and so i was three hours south of wichita kansas and um when the btk um stalker and

00:11:25.200 murderer you know was caught and i think it was around 2005 ish don't quote me on that 2003 but when

00:11:32.040 they caught him uh it made our news for probably three months every night on the nightly news they

00:11:38.520 would talk about the btk btk strangler and you know his name's dennis rater and all of his victims and

00:11:44.620 you'd see his photo you'd see videos of him in court you'd see all these people protesting um you know

00:11:49.960 the the families of the victims and so forth and so but at the same time there were black serial killers 0.88

00:11:57.180 in wichita kansas they did just as bad of crimes more victims than him and guess what i never heard

00:12:03.680 about in oklahoma city i had no idea they existed until i started looking for them and found

00:12:08.420 them just buried in in and honestly you know because you know i have to support my family and

00:12:13.580 um you know make a living and so i can't devote myself to this full time i've often thought if i

00:12:18.760 could just spend two years solid doing this how many more would i uncover that i've missed right

00:12:24.600 so that you're saying there isn't like a well haven't there been back and forth on that when it

00:12:30.560 comes to the racial profile of like the databases that do exist and stuff i mean in some countries

00:12:35.500 they're now actually done away with it altogether uh you know sweden they did away with it for

00:12:39.820 example but that's still that's still measured like in the u.s though right they still list all

00:12:44.220 that right well it is um unfortunately you know white they have basically uh the fbi keeps black 0.75

00:12:50.500 and white category and so black is obvious black but white is everything else oh yeah and so like

00:12:56.100 hispanic white they're indian yeah but the other thing too is they don't have a name they just tell

00:13:00.760 you a town a county and um a state in the year they don't tell you you know and they might tell

00:13:06.600 you you know shooting victims stabbing victims you know strangulation but you have no way of knowing

00:13:11.360 the names and so that's what i'm getting at is it's an exhaustive thing to um dig in and find the names

00:13:18.260 and find the crimes yep exactly so uh you you kind of brush on this a little bit but uh definition i

00:13:25.880 guess as you said an obvious serial killer what that actually is because of course we have mass

00:13:30.340 shooters right or mass shootings and i would assume it's just as simple as because of the fact that it

00:13:36.680 happens like in the one that one time slot if you will the one instance a person shoots as many as

00:13:42.300 possible but then what's the definition like oh if it goes what a day after and then they kill another

00:13:47.340 and another or something then all of a sudden it becomes a serial killer i suppose to just a

00:13:50.840 a killer or a mass uh shooting or mass murder maybe well and that's something that's actually

00:13:56.040 debated when um they first came out with the term serial killer it was three or more murders committed

00:14:01.900 over a span a 30 day span or more okay yeah and so that's what the definition was they've since

00:14:08.080 lowered it to two because some of the most famous serial killers like ed guyne for instance um he was

00:14:13.580 back in the 50s and he was actually the inspiration for like um norman bates and for uh buffalo

00:14:20.680 bill out of uh silence of the lambs he only killed two women and so they they lowered it down to two 0.99

00:14:26.300 in 30 days but there are instances if it's a few weeks or maybe even two weeks and they're not they

00:14:32.180 can show that it's not a crime spree because the thing that you have is sometimes you have a guy that

00:14:37.220 he pops off two or three people and then two or three days later you know he's still laced out on drugs

00:14:43.040 or maybe it's a psychological breakdown of some sort and he goes kills a few more that's a crime spree

00:14:48.020 and so they're trying to say that you know it's still the 30 day span but occasionally in the

00:14:52.960 research you'll find you know guys that study this saying okay a week apart on the murders you know

00:14:58.420 he killed eight people it wasn't really a spree it was a serial murder ah yeah gotcha so and so it's

00:15:04.660 a little ambiguous but it's a there's a little gray areas when i'm getting a little fuzzy right exactly

00:15:09.960 yeah but no that that kind of puts us in the category of what we're looking at here so you go back

00:15:13.780 to you i think you said in the book there uh from the 1860s uh to president so that's a lot

00:15:18.660 that's a long time span right there mm-hmm yeah um that was about the earliest newspapers i could

00:15:23.600 find i mean there were earlier in america but online that was about the limit was 1860 and that was

00:15:31.220 some of the new york times and there was a defunct newspapers out of the northeast and so but they

00:15:36.900 didn't really report on that much um you know there was occasionally i'd find stuff but most of it was

00:15:42.280 in the 1870s and 1880s there was quite a bit more you know kind of the wild west days would you say

00:15:48.140 generally that there's this is an upward trend it's it's more and more and more it's on the rise as the

00:15:53.540 oh yeah implies yeah yeah yeah and i covered that in my book um it's actually pretty interesting i showed

00:15:59.080 decade by decade from 1860 um up until present times and you see the trend in both white and black

00:16:06.500 it gradually increases until the 1960s in the 1960s there was a lot going on not only did we

00:16:13.200 have the civil rate you know civil rights stuff going on but we also had the interstate system

00:16:18.240 in america coming into fruition and so that allowed people to travel very freely instead of taking you

00:16:23.920 know 10 hours on you know uh state highways and country roads now they could cover the same distance

00:16:28.880 in a few hours so a guy could come and kill somebody and truck it you know uh somewhere else and

00:16:34.940 he was out out of dodge and so but you had a lot more than that too you had um you know the the peace

00:16:40.900 love you know uh agenda going on and so people you know were having this mentality but we can do what

00:16:47.640 we want live how we want do what we want and so you had all those things happening and so the 1960s

00:16:53.700 both races skyrocketed but something that was interesting is up until 1960 um you have

00:17:02.340 whites outnumbered the blacks and serial killers but still were less than their population percentile

00:17:09.760 so let's say for instance whites were 78 percent of the population they still only represented maybe 0.60

00:17:15.120 55 or 60 percent of serial murders and blacks were overrepresented but in the 1970s from 1970s to

00:17:22.980 present day the scales have been overturned um to the point that i think it was in the 2000s i think we

00:17:29.880 had like 40 um or 50 uh white serial killers that surfaced but we had i think close to 150 maybe it's

00:17:38.640 160 black serial killers so you have this disparity you know it's kind of a and i show that in my book

00:17:45.080 you see these i'm going to use my hands but you see them you know trending like this together yeah and

00:17:50.440 then all of a sudden they cross and they just leave each other to the point that it's almost as if white

00:17:55.300 serial killing has reached its uh peak in 1960s and is kind of waning out it's not to say that they

00:18:01.600 don't still exist or can't exist but compared to the blacks they're still just climbing it's unreal 1.00

00:18:07.880 every decade is getting worse and worse and of course if you adjust for uh population because they're

00:18:12.720 only 12 uh 13 percent of the population uh that's a huge difference actually huge difference it's wild

00:18:19.340 exactly and you know and there's so many ways you can look at that too you can look at the uh

00:18:24.300 percentages and then you can look at also um um how many times more than their population i think

00:18:31.800 i've got a stat somewhere i don't think i wrote it down in my notes but i think right now if you

00:18:36.800 averaged out from 1860 to present um that blacks are overrepresented 5.82 times compared to the

00:18:44.480 population of serial murders wow i mean think about that if whites in some violent crime area 0.71

00:18:51.020 were almost six times their population represent represented it would be in every media there is

00:18:59.000 we would have it drilled into our heads stop this stop this let's fix it but you never hear anything

00:19:04.960 about it no they're just flat out like avoiding it denying it and they're just saying no that i mean

00:19:11.640 and this was the thing i wanted to bring up anyway but it's like all these agencies now in the u.s

00:19:16.580 is being weaponized whether it's the department of homeland security or the department of justice

00:19:21.200 or obviously the fbi and things like that and they're more concerned with you know so-called white

00:19:26.300 supremacy and white nationalism and i mean a while back we had that headline of uh the department of

00:19:31.480 homeland security that's starting to recognize what you know whites white nationalism as a major

00:19:36.300 terror threat and that they're saying that they're going to give as much money to this issue as they

00:19:41.580 did with dealing with you know like isis and al-qaeda and things like that which is insane

00:19:46.260 and then you have areas such as you've just highlighted here and that you're going to detail

00:19:50.420 about in your book and you realize like that there's not even a discussion about that this

00:19:55.820 should be like front and center how do we as you said if this if this was white represented like this

00:20:00.800 it would be like this is a huge problem like something has to be done you know i mean

00:20:04.180 exactly yeah and that's the thing that i talk about in the book and then it's not just that i'll give a

00:20:10.480 statistic i've got here to show how bad it is right now up to present i've been able to find

00:20:16.460 855 white serial killers in the u.s from 1860 to this very day doesn't mean there's not some that i

00:20:23.300 haven't that i've missed or that there's some that aren't discovered yet but right now we just passed

00:20:28.160 the 1000 mark i'm working on the third edition right now to be released sometime this uh fall or

00:20:34.100 winter and for black serial killers we passed a thousand and think about that 12.7 or 8 percent

00:20:41.260 of the population is responsible for over half the serial killer murders since 1860 and it's worse 0.90

00:20:48.120 than that if you think about it it's not the entire let's use a round number 13 percent the blacks

00:20:53.960 represent the u.s half of that is female well so that you're left with 6.5 percent well you can 1.00

00:21:00.760 half that again because most of these murders are from guys that are 18 to 35 right yeah so you have

00:21:05.800 3.2 percent roughly of the population killing over half the serial murders wow you have every you know

00:21:13.760 every year you think about that it's just wild to think such a small demographic yeah part of a

00:21:19.060 population is this violent yeah and i think on some level you'll have the usual suspects and leftists

00:21:25.440 and all this stuff they always try to justify it or you know blah well you know blah blah blah there's

00:21:30.080 because of this or some you you you know what these what the answers are so it's socioeconomic or you

00:21:35.840 know uh they're not being led into society and that's why i kind of thing but but they don't ever

00:21:40.240 that's never an issue when it comes to to uh white guys who i'd argue right now the most like openly

00:21:46.740 discriminated against you can literally have like you know ads now like no whites need not to apply 0.71

00:21:52.360 you know like being a white male is one of the most out there you know discriminated demographic that

00:21:57.560 you have out there uh but you know we don't see those kinds of effects then um you know among the

00:22:02.700 white population so that's kind of curious huh well it is and you mentioned you know in the beginning

00:22:07.080 about dahmer and you know dahmer's an interesting subject because yeah he did some gruesome stuff he 1.00

00:22:13.220 killed i think it's 13 or 14 victims they had um or that he had but there's blacks real killers and 0.98

00:22:20.580 even whites they had so many more victims they did just as bad as stuff but with dahmer you have 1.00

00:22:25.200 over 30 books have been published just on him yeah i think there were up to six or seven movies plus

00:22:30.320 this new tv show that's out that cover him but black serial killers minus my book i think we're up to 0.99

00:22:37.360 10 total for all black serial killers so think about that one guy has more books than all black 1.00

00:22:43.940 serial killers combined but um back to uh him being a racist white serial killers what i found is that 0.94

00:22:50.800 they killed outside their race one time 5.84 percent of the time black serial killers on the other hand 0.88

00:22:58.120 killed 57.4 percent outside their race and of that 32.17 percent of black serial killers had nothing but 0.60

00:23:08.380 white victims really have you ever heard that statistic never never heard that no yeah i've never heard that

00:23:14.280 in the media and you know that's what i found because what i did is i went through every single

00:23:19.060 murderer found their victims and sometimes it was you know it was easy sometimes the media would be

00:23:24.140 you know would show pictures or their websites and you know memorials and so forth it was easy

00:23:28.100 but sometimes i had to go through detail and census records and try to find these people and you know

00:23:33.360 what was the race you know with this victim and that victim and um but still it blew me away that

00:23:38.040 you know it's just this huge disparity between black serial killers versus white yeah oh yeah no definitely 1.00

00:23:44.920 and and again the dommer thing there like the fascination around this and and you know show after

00:23:50.500 show on these thing and yeah again it's maybe the nature of it or the the gruesomeness around it or

00:23:56.400 whatever but i mean again let's talk about that for a moment the tag the lgbtq tag that netflix put

00:24:01.160 on it and then immediately it was like you know an outburst of like you know pushback and people were

00:24:05.700 upset about this and somehow netflix folded and they took it away after i think three days or something

00:24:10.980 like that right now now they didn't want him to be lgbtq now it was like well what does it matter

00:24:15.460 that he's gay or what does it matter that they're white then too you could you could counteract but 0.74

00:24:19.420 you know you don't get that discussion it's almost like again i'm back to my point that that you can 0.96

00:24:24.300 you know the only group that you can uh you know openly push back against like that is is whites and 0.99

00:24:29.780 you won't see a big outrage around it you know i mean no you won't at all and so and that's one thing

00:24:36.000 i've noticed uh you know i'm gonna fire off some stuff at you to kind of reinforce that um have you

00:24:41.600 ever heard of a guy named mark sappington most of your listeners probably won't have no he was out

00:24:46.280 of kansas city he was actually a copycat killers what they call him where he was enthralled by what

00:24:52.400 dahmer did but he was a black guy he killed four people that were acquaintances or friends drank their 0.72

00:24:57.660 blood ate more parts than dahmer did everybody always wants to focus and i've not seen this new um

00:25:02.860 you know tv show about dahmer yeah but i've read about him quite a bit yeah everybody thinks that's

00:25:07.860 all he did was dying on human flesh he did right right yeah he ate the bicep of one of his victims

00:25:12.340 okay right and may have sampled a little more than that so he wasn't like this day in or day out

00:25:17.800 cannibal it was more of an exploratory thing mark sappington on the other hand ate quite a bit of his

00:25:23.120 four victims and you've never heard of him no um you know another is a guy named maury uh troy travis

00:25:29.780 he killed at least 17 women but he murdered himself in jail hanged himself before they could

00:25:37.100 get all the names but there was at least 22 more is what they suspect out of st louis missouri he had

00:25:43.620 a murder room in his basement where he would film himself beating these women for sometimes weeks

00:25:49.660 and starving them to death raping them repeatedly and then he had dumped their bodies you know in the um

00:25:55.480 near the mississippi river in st louis wow very few have ever heard of the guy never heard and to me 0.69

00:26:01.640 i mean the guy was yeah dahmer's bad but this guy is equivalent if not worse in my book and it's 0.83

00:26:07.100 nothing about his race if a white guy had done what maury did i would say the same thing that they're a 0.66

00:26:11.780 hideous person of course absolutely yeah here's the uh here's mark sappington here the uh yeah the 0.57

00:26:17.440 kansas city vampire and you'd you'd think these i mean yeah we're talking about tv now sensationalism

00:26:23.460 so these would be great tv shows right i mean you couldn't have you had a better uh storyline you

00:26:28.240 know i'm thinking about but uh as you say maybe it's let's tackle that a little bit more in detail

00:26:32.640 what that is right you're right i guess i can read that passage there bias against reporting black

00:26:36.840 serial killers chapter two you say americans are impacted by what the mainstream media reports and

00:26:41.660 what hollywood produces even if it is a pale comparison to what really takes place in the world

00:26:47.260 in the minds of millions they have no need to doubt these experts who entertain them with vivid

00:26:52.740 stories and detailed special effects but should simply sit back and enjoy the show as a result the

00:26:57.680 public assumes these outlets are staffed by specialists who hold advanced digress in reporting

00:27:03.120 and or yeah digress in in reporting and storytelling therefore they must tell the truth especially

00:27:08.220 when it concerns crime the truth the truth is that regardless of the facts there are some stories

00:27:14.300 the media and entertainment industries choose to willingly ignore they are considered too hot

00:27:19.760 to touch and subsequently avoided or downplayed and and at the heart of that i simply think that

00:27:26.180 that's about everything in the media right now is about lift you know lifting out uh lifting up you

00:27:32.400 know black people right black you gotta hear black voices you should put on any streaming service it's

00:27:36.380 almost that so any i guess anything that would negatively then uh you know kind of reflect on on black

00:27:43.400 people overall is seen as as an evil right and it's like this we can't have that we just have to

00:27:48.140 avoid this issue at at all costs even if it means we're uh missing out maybe on good tv shows or movies

00:27:55.380 even if it means that we're not telling the truth um that that has been put to the side for the sake of the

00:28:01.960 of the agenda basically right no i would agree with that and the thing is is you know that chapter was

00:28:09.420 it was easy to write because there's such a wealth of information yeah you know the disparity you know

00:28:15.340 like you pulled up this article on mark sappington you have to know the names to find some of these

00:28:19.760 people you can't just type in um give me a list of black serial killers you know before my book you

00:28:25.040 couldn't do that yeah um people have now you know taken the names on my book and published them

00:28:30.120 and updated databases which is fine i'm happy to help um but before that you couldn't do that you

00:28:35.120 might pull up you know a few and so yeah and maury travis this is something do you see his you see a

00:28:41.200 description of him right here there you finally see his face yeah but outside of a few articles you

00:28:46.980 don't see his face what they want to highlight on is he was the very first serial killer ever caught

00:28:52.240 using an ip address the fbi was able to trace him because he was bragging about his crimes and uh what

00:28:59.980 he was doing and emailing um uh news media outlets hey look what i did you know i killed this gal this

00:29:05.820 and that and he didn't understand the way ip addresses work and they tracked him to his home

00:29:10.620 whoops yeah i gotta use a vpn buddy yeah even that so the thing is a lot of articles you know up here

00:29:15.880 you see this guy with a hoodie and his uh you know turned you can't tell what race he is you have no

00:29:20.300 idea yeah a lot of articles that's all they'll show they will not show a picture of his face at all

00:29:24.840 yeah and so you know and they want to highlight how cool it is the fbi tracked him down well cool

00:29:30.100 that's a cool story what did he look like you know let's not talk about that no instead it's as

00:29:36.520 you said jeffrey dahmer it's ted bundy it's john wen gazey even in fact when i when i searched for

00:29:40.940 your book on amazon just to pull it up here so we can show it uh this came up to world's most evil

00:29:45.840 killers right and you go through here and it's just like most of them i think actually in the uk uh

00:29:50.840 but most of them i believe are white i didn't go through every single one yet but most of them

00:29:54.820 are uh are white as usual you know i think they highlight one black guy in here i okay but

00:30:00.080 don't quote me on this show okay and you mentioned gacy everybody knows if they don't know that name 0.93

00:30:06.660 they recognize him he was the killer clown he killed 33 boys and uh young guys he was also a

00:30:12.600 homosexual i'm surprised that the uh alphabet group hasn't claimed him but uh nonetheless about the

00:30:20.300 same time as him there was a serial killer that killed the same amount of people 33

00:30:24.920 named edward lee mosley he was out of fort lauderdale florida but he had another thing too he loved to

00:30:31.180 rape he had over 300 victims of rape and so that survived yeah but outside of fort lauderdale you'll

00:30:38.060 never hear about him and there yeah there's john wing gacy on the side there on the uh right wasn't

00:30:42.560 there um do you know if he actually dressed up as a clown i somewhere i read just a few like a week

00:30:47.180 ago like no that was a rumor or he only did it once or something he he worked as a clown though

00:30:51.860 right that was actually his profession right but he worked as a clown but they don't know how much

00:30:56.920 he dressed up for um you know in his murder some you know if you see there he's actually

00:31:02.900 kind of the inspiration for a lot of the killer clowns and some of the horror shows now and so forth

00:31:07.600 because you know but but what i'm getting at is why don't we hear about edward lee mosley you know

00:31:12.420 300 rapes of course the same number of murders 33 yep and um and not only that but he was also

00:31:18.340 in a necrophilia so he was you know dealing with corpses yeah you know raping corpses and so but you

00:31:24.820 never hear about him in fact he never made any news out even in fort lauderdale they never covered

00:31:29.700 his story at all it's incredible yeah usually it's local small local news outlets or something

00:31:34.660 they touch on it but of course they never connect the dots or make it that's not their i mean it

00:31:38.200 would be their job but it isn't you know i mean they don't do that kind of stuff they just like

00:31:41.580 you know pick it up and leave it and then they move on and that's that no i mean if it wouldn't

00:31:45.620 have been for i think that when how i found him was a memorial for um one of his victims um you know

00:31:53.420 an obituary yeah and um and i was like wow serial killer out of fort lauderdale and i got to looking

00:31:59.460 for him and and public was outraged because he's in a mental institution it's very light security is

00:32:05.340 essentially a double wide trailer is where he's at it's a little bigger than that but at the same time

00:32:10.080 it's this small little cubicle that doesn't have much security but he you know they they got him

00:32:15.560 off on you know said well he's he has a low iq let's just call him crazy yeah interesting so you

00:32:22.080 have you do you have actually like an index uh in in the book with the names is that how you percent

00:32:27.680 okay yeah okay interesting yeah i i um in that's the last chapter i go through alphabetically and what

00:32:34.120 i do is i list um the number of victims sometimes i list the names and then the method of killing um

00:32:41.140 and then i list the race of the victims i and i'm honest in there if the victims are black i put black

00:32:45.740 if they're a mix i put a mix sure if they're solely white i put solely white and i'll put in there um

00:32:51.300 little blips too and i put the the the birth date and if there is a death date of the serial killer

00:32:55.580 but i put in there too if there's anything about um you know like overkill

00:32:59.520 or um you know like a mark sappington that they drank the blood or cannibalism just so people can

00:33:04.900 understand and it's not to make them seem worse than they are i just want the truth to come out

00:33:10.460 that's all i want yeah is for people to have the data so if you search for you know any of these

00:33:15.240 terms now dahmer is john wing gasey one of these famous kind of thing just stories after stories and

00:33:20.100 and it's this like you know fascinate almost like this fetish might not be the right word but you do

00:33:24.640 know what i mean like people revel in this they are like you know fascinated and attracted by this

00:33:29.660 yeah i'm not sure what explains that what it is maybe people's lives are so uh thrill less so they

00:33:35.160 need something like this but uh they seem to love it you know they do and there's something even

00:33:39.860 weirder that's always just amused me is you had the fangirls like ted bundy when he was alive

00:33:45.580 he had women writing him every week offering marriage saying we want to marry you and it's like

00:33:51.620 hello this guy killed 30 something women you want to marry this guy i guess so it's weird we know how 0.94

00:33:58.900 it's going to end okay yeah exactly please kill me i'm i'm important too i don't know what the what 0.92

00:34:04.580 the driver is there it just it blows me away it just and all of them have it they have these people 0.54

00:34:08.980 that are infatuated by him yeah exactly yeah even the even the actor that played dahmer i forget what

00:34:14.560 his name was now but like he immediately like instant star success and because of that role in the

00:34:19.640 association you know how it works in people's head then it's like i'm like he's so sexy you know

00:34:23.680 like really i mean what was that the show by the way there was a um uh another serial killer show oh

00:34:29.340 forget what it is now um it went about money hunter no it was another one it'll come to me in a moment

00:34:34.460 here but it was like same thing there i remember all these women they loved watching this and he's so

00:34:39.040 sexy i forget what it was called but that seems to be a common theme to be honest uh and i'm not sure

00:34:44.400 what the fascination is but uh take care of leave that that's what it is you know i i agree with you

00:34:48.900 i think it's just people want something to hold on to and um maybe they have a boring life they don't

00:34:55.240 have much to look forward to maybe it's just the excitement um or could just be that they're dark

00:35:00.180 you know have dark souls or you know whatever your take is on that exactly um so anyway let me yeah

00:35:07.580 mind that's right mind hunter was another one i was thinking about too there is a few of those

00:35:11.240 yeah here it is uh yeah dexter that's the one remember that one that's right uh dexter is

00:35:16.800 actually interesting if you've ever watched the show you know it's about a white serial killer

00:35:20.340 but he tries to frame a black officer named sergeant dokes in that film and so the only way that you

00:35:29.160 have a black serial killer out of that film is when he tries to frame his own crimes onto the black guy

00:35:35.040 who's a black cop and um in the black cop ends up getting killed in the film um and the public says 0.66

00:35:41.920 oh wow we've caught this guy he's he's obviously the serial killer yeah well he really wasn't he was

00:35:46.600 framed and so it's almost like the makers of the show were trying to say hey look there are black

00:35:52.320 serial killers but they're framed it was really a white guy behind it the whole time exactly

00:35:56.360 right and and there's so much of that in the media again back to the dommer thing and i didn't watch

00:36:00.980 much of it but the initial you know the first episode and the initial especially the initial

00:36:05.820 few scenes with dommer uh was kind of framed that way too now i think dommer had i think it was majority

00:36:12.320 uh you know blacks that he did kill it was a couple of asians maybe and then it was one maybe two

00:36:17.240 white kids depending on how you kind of count or whatever but as far as i understand maybe you have

00:36:21.500 more information about that but it wasn't like racially motivated nothing to do with that it was about

00:36:26.580 the availability of the victim of sorts it was people that were like a little bit living on

00:36:30.900 the outskirts they were not maybe uh settled somewhere that were on the run or something

00:36:35.020 right and he he caught who who he ever could catch by luring them in right but am i wrong on that maybe

00:36:40.800 do you know no no you're absolutely right but the thing is and this is where the lgbt group um they get

00:36:46.640 irritated is when you look at it it was never racial motivated it was sexual he would pick up guys and it

00:36:53.620 was whichever guy was willing to you know go do the deed with him that's what the victim was if it would 0.98

00:36:59.620 have been white guys guess what every victim would have been white so he did have sex with every 0.98

00:37:03.860 single one is that what they claim yes they would have sex and okay um and the thing is um there was 0.94

00:37:10.100 actually there was one of the victims i can't remember his name i think he was one of the asian

00:37:14.440 guys he ran away he was being raped and i guess it was it wasn't consensual for him and um he ran away

00:37:23.080 and the cops uh listened to a story and they're like yeah whatever and they took him back to

00:37:28.060 dahmer's apartment dahmer finished it and killed him and so um they uh you know the public tried

00:37:35.040 to make an outcry about it during the trial and a lot of these black rights groups and asian rights

00:37:39.880 groups at the time and said well this is obvious the cops are racist and yeah what it is is that they

00:37:45.480 thought it was a gay gay lover's quarrel is what the police thought they did not think it was a crime

00:37:51.100 going on because they talked to both of them and they're both they both kind of sheepishly wouldn't

00:37:55.320 admit what they were doing but the cops are like okay fine just go do that out of our hair get out

00:37:59.320 of here gotcha and again i think we're back to that why they are so happy then to cover these

00:38:04.080 things and bring that up because it can always be spun that the reason why they could kill and get

00:38:08.600 away with it uh and of course in the end they didn't they did get caught these people right but

00:38:13.200 but at the beginning it's like this is this is because we have we're living in a racist society and

00:38:18.180 again though the most of the articles i read from about the dahmer case was about that you know the

00:38:22.280 first few scenes of the shows they show that of like a an innocent uh you know black um black kid 0.75

00:38:27.620 and this was like and they they twisted it in such a way that to to to make it about race you know i

00:38:33.800 mean as opposed to the the sexual aspect in this case uh so it's so it's so dishonest and and as long

00:38:39.360 as they can i can have an anti-white spin on it they'll be happy to cover it or and even if that is

00:38:44.260 not the truth uh justin they will weave that into it and saying no it's this is a it was all about race

00:38:50.120 that's the reason he did this when it wasn't when that's not true yeah no exactly and that's the

00:38:55.340 thing they want to focus on just a few victims you know that were black and um not talk about what

00:39:01.180 what really precipitated to make this crime happen it was you know it was you know he was trolling the 0.98

00:39:06.700 gay clubs and also gay prostitutes and that's what he was looking for yes exactly yeah here's a let me i

00:39:13.840 can pull it in just real quick there here's a uh picture for you guys of the uh of the victims uh 0.91

00:39:19.700 right here as well so so in that case they don't want the association then they don't want the tag if

00:39:25.220 you will on netflix that this is uh lgbtq characters here this has nothing to do with it now uh reasonably

00:39:31.080 shouldn't we be as white people be able to use that too now it's irrelevant if it's white people what

00:39:36.100 does it matter if he's white if they spin it and if it's about uh whether it's serial killers or

00:39:40.240 something else because think about i'm in the wider society right now that's what it's all about we

00:39:44.280 have even as i said before agencies are essentially weaponized against the interest of white people and

00:39:49.340 somehow we need to prove either that's racist it's racism or the white people are uh benefiting

00:39:56.180 disproportionately from something or whether it's work for discrimination or all that stuff so it seems

00:40:01.820 that as long as it's against white people then it's fine to have all these categories and kind of 0.96

00:40:06.240 build a profile but if it's not and it reflects negatively on non-white people then we can't

00:40:12.360 talk about it and we can't cover it right exactly yeah and you you know you mentioned that you know

00:40:17.460 something that i discovered in my book um that is just alarming to me it just blows me away and i don't

00:40:23.880 know if you you saw this but to date there's 103 black serial killers that their sentences uh they were

00:40:30.360 sentenced for one or more murders and then they were released not long after some of them within two

00:40:35.080 years some of them six seven eight years and guess what they started killing again most of the time

00:40:39.920 within two years and the reason this happens is because they always have these lawyers in the appeals

00:40:45.560 cases that want to say oh well there was that one guy he kind of looked a little you know he shook his

00:40:51.060 head or that one gal she kind of gasped in the jury or and so um you know they're obviously racist so 0.90

00:40:58.320 we're going to have this you know kicked out and what i found is there's at least 23 cases that i found

00:41:04.460 where the death sentence was commuted to life in prison or even a lesser charge there was one guy

00:41:09.400 that had two life sentences and a death sentence all that was thrown out and guess what he's now i

00:41:14.940 think he's out now but he was held on a robbery charge really yeah and it's like why why are these

00:41:20.380 guys their sentences you know if i you know it me if i was going to be a serial murderer and you know

00:41:26.480 knock off you know 15 people like some of these guys guess what they are going to find a tall

00:41:31.420 tree and a short rope for me is what they're going to write yeah and i'm going to be in every media

00:41:35.040 there is yeah but um you know on the news station and everything else but these guys you never hear

00:41:40.260 about it but their sentences are getting commuted or they're getting out um for good behavior after

00:41:45.260 two or four years and there was even one guy this is blew me away when i found this i mean i could not

00:41:51.140 imagine but there was one guy that was his name steven robbins he was given light sentences for

00:41:57.680 murder on three occasions from 1968 to 1992 every time he was released he murdered again he's finally

00:42:04.720 serving life sentence still so think about that he was released from prison three times for murder

00:42:10.440 and each time he was charged again and convicted they got him on a uh a small charge but it just

00:42:17.140 when i discovered that and read about it and there's not a lot of information online that you can find

00:42:21.100 just you know put it together from news articles it just it's mind-boggling that he was released

00:42:25.980 to kill again and that's just it and we've seen other cases like that too right um if it's and

00:42:32.060 sometimes too but we could get into detail of that uh after the break in the second part here a little

00:42:35.720 bit too about like mass because you have the same perception when it's mass shootings but if you begin

00:42:39.940 to analyze the politics it gets even worse right if it's like depending on their political affiliation

00:42:45.120 or what they believed or you know as we've seen with some of these mass shooters in recent years it's

00:42:49.500 like all of a sudden the media does this like huge scouring of like every social media account they can find

00:42:55.140 with the person who did he like who did he follow just to create a character and reflect it negatively

00:43:00.160 on them kind of thing but we could talk more about that later the the last one you mentioned was that

00:43:03.880 was that in oklahoma too or where was that you said uh um stephen robbins i would have to look him up

00:43:09.640 in my book oh robbins okay that's why yeah i saw one uh another oklahoma that's why but okay stephen

00:43:15.220 robbins that's right yeah let me see where he was i'm looking at my database right now no worries no

00:43:19.660 worries not a problem but yeah uh is it illinois maybe uh indiana yeah i'm sorry it's such a big

00:43:27.060 database oh no worries yeah no no no worries whatsoever that's that's that's all good yeah

00:43:31.160 i saw this one too i guess we can show this real quick that uh dom is so uh so popular now right

00:43:36.180 that people want to dress up as him for halloween but that's become offensive now too apparently

00:43:40.400 so you can see sacred cows all of a sudden to pop up you can't do anything but uh they love the um

00:43:47.080 i wonder if that's part of it too but hollywood as far as my uh what i've been able to tell is

00:43:52.040 they love the blonde like super villain right i i forget how many of those characters there are but 0.98

00:43:58.280 there's like i think that we're in the hundreds at least of like you know from james bond to harry

00:44:03.660 potter to like some of the you know biggest uh movies out there it's usually like a blonde super 1.00

00:44:08.480 villain and of course domer you know very white guy he was blonde and all that stuff i'm not sure that

00:44:14.100 that's part of it but it feels to me that there's like within the media within the entertainment

00:44:17.820 industry there's this like over the top um uh effort to basically make uh white people look as

00:44:24.620 bad as possible that's the only conclusion i can draw looking at it no and i would agree with you

00:44:29.240 on that and by the way i did find that guy and it was indiana illinois okay in the chicago area and

00:44:34.980 um right across the state line into indiana i think it's peoria is the name of the town there

00:44:39.140 gotcha and so um wow but yeah violent killer but but no i agree with you i've seen that same trend

00:44:45.600 too is that you know people want to uh you know glorify in some sense uh yeah there he is steven

00:44:51.520 robbins yeah mistakenly freed killer recapture while watching tv oh geez yeah and there's a pic

00:44:57.500 mistakenly yeah how many times has he been freed how many times exactly so and that's an article from

00:45:03.500 2003 um his first murder was in actually 1968 so that's why yeah i don't want your viewers to see

00:45:09.540 this and say well there's no way that guy was killing 1968 he's young well his photo is 20 years

00:45:14.280 old so oh even that's it's even more dishonest than anyway right that they didn't have any yeah it

00:45:19.680 reminds me and that was actually out of illinois too i guess we could look at a clip here let me see

00:45:23.340 if i can find it but it was about um and it's not about mass killers but it's also just about

00:45:27.980 uh crime overall uh let me see if i can find it here but it was it was someone talking about

00:45:33.320 something called the safety act in illinois where basically did you hear about that they're

00:45:37.740 going to let out all these criminals and stuff and i mean even in the wake of covid we saw that

00:45:41.920 with the lockdown so it's like open the prisons let them all out kind of thing it's like insane

00:45:45.880 i saw that in a movie one time called batman it didn't go so well for gotham city

00:45:50.300 exactly i know oh good boy i'll see if i can find that but yes safety act it was called uh and i forget

00:45:57.660 the guy there was a guy running it either for governor of illinois or something bringing it up but

00:46:01.800 anyway i'll find it later we could play it in part two but all right so so we could take a break here

00:46:06.180 we're at about 45 minute mark so we can take a little break tell us how people can pick up a copy

00:46:10.880 of the book is is amazon really the best place you'd say do you have any any other sources that's where

00:46:16.080 people order from and that's fine um you know and i'm working on i'll try to get it released here

00:46:20.860 pretty soon an instagram page where i can just do updates and and um just information for people

00:46:26.300 because you know i didn't do this to get rich by any means i wanted to be an information

00:46:30.680 um source for people and um so but yeah amazon's a good spot so okay perfect perfect we'll have the

00:46:37.180 link down below guys uh rise of the black serial killer documenting a startling trend there is a

00:46:42.660 kindle version right there eight bucks and then there is a paperback uh as well so you can choose

00:46:47.200 what you want there check out the copy of the book again a lot of details in there we have we're just

00:46:51.000 kind of begin to scratch the surface here really but uh great stuff thank you justin stay with us

00:46:55.220 we'll be right back in part two all right thanks all right well thank you so much for joining us here

00:47:01.660 in part one ladies and gentlemen we're going to continue in part two with justin control talk more

00:47:05.840 about this ask some of the questions about uh what about the what about the numbers right let's uh

00:47:10.560 let's talk about the body count uh who's actually getting most because the perception here of course is

00:47:15.380 that uh uh well you know there might be uh black serial killers but the majority of those who kill

00:47:20.460 the more people are white right so we kind of dive into this issue of like well does that have 0.79

00:47:25.380 something to do with uh uh iq differences there's something like that right but the uh the answer to

00:47:30.600 that might actually uh shock you we have some other stuff too we're going to talk about in terms of like

00:47:35.040 why the media isn't covering some of these stories where there's so much like gruesomeness like if they

00:47:39.520 like the dommer stuff and the gore and the cannibalism and the torture and stuff like that well there's a lot

00:47:45.760 of examples in that other category that we're talking about too where they could find

00:47:49.280 mass killers like that as well but for some reason we don't see the tv shows about them

00:47:54.460 we're also going to talk a little bit about mass shooters and you kind of have the same thing there

00:47:59.180 that the media and these agencies the alphabet agencies are only focusing on you know white

00:48:04.700 people and usually it's politically affiliated right what what do they believe what what their

00:48:09.120 politics were their right-wingers or were they white nationalists or something like that

00:48:12.980 and that becomes the major story in the in the news media however you have a number of mass

00:48:18.100 shooters that are never covered in the same way who are either black or from another non-white group 0.65

00:48:22.780 so we'll talk more about that as well great second part here with justin coming up so check that out

00:48:26.320 over at redicemembers.com sign up for a membership join us month to month 10 bucks a month or you can

00:48:31.320 do a one-time payment we have subscriptions up to two years and it gets cheaper per month as well

00:48:36.160 you can also sign up at subscribestar.com slash redice always remember to send us a dm over there or an email

00:48:42.080 and let us know that you've signed up and what your username is on our redice members website so we can

00:48:47.400 link and activate the account you can also sign up at odyssey.com forward slash at redice tv that's right

00:48:53.260 we do have odyssey memberships now as well so we don't of course have our full backlog catalog there

00:48:59.860 yet but we'll upload all new stuff and we're going to try to backlog and upload older stuff as much as

00:49:05.140 possible here odyssey.com slash at redice tv a very easy option for you guys to sign up over there

00:49:10.360 thanks to our executive producers t lothrop stoddard v miller resin revolt good like lap

00:49:16.020 jake red pill rundown chalky milk french 47 mark smith no one jeebs president ubunga

00:49:22.860 catch me if you can and mongoose also thanks to our producers mr walker 696 and

00:49:28.780 you hansson we appreciate you guys thank you so much everybody all right we'll be back with more

00:49:32.500 in part two we'll see you on the other side

00:49:34.460 the other side

00:49:35.720 the other side

00:49:45.740 we'll see you on the other side

00:49:49.200 we'll see you there

00:49:50.620 we'll see you on the other side

00:49:52.140 here

00:49:52.660 here

00:49:53.320 the other side

00:49:54.100 here

00:49:56.700 you

00:49:58.660 I'll see you next time.

Red Ice TV - October 21, 2022

Why Do You Never Hear About Black Serial Killers？ - Justin Cottrell

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript