The Human Rights Division of the State of New York is targeting a Christian fashion designer, Dominique Galbraith, for refusing to make a wedding garment for a woman in a same-sex relationship for her ceremony. She is such a strong woman of God and her testimony is incredible. Her strength, her boldness, is so admirable. You are going to be so encouraged by her story that she s sharing on the show today and just her testimony of faith in God and all that God is doing through her bravery.
00:00:00.000The Human Rights Division of the state of New York is targeting a Christian fashion designer, Dominique Galbraith, for refusing to make a wedding garment for a woman in a same-sex relationship for her ceremony.
00:00:23.140Her strength, her boldness is so admirable.
00:00:26.480You are going to be so encouraged by her story that she's sharing on the show today and just her testimony of faith in God and all that God is doing through her bravery.
00:00:38.760This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers.
00:06:04.000The LGBTQ is powerful, though they're not more powerful than God.
00:06:09.900Um, and you're going to face rejection.
00:06:12.880You could possibly lose your business.
00:06:14.500You know, you could possibly lose customers who believe that you're discriminating.
00:06:21.540And I realized, and it's interesting because years up until that point, I was really focused a lot of times, like in my private study, on persecution.
00:06:35.960And how, as Christians, we are to expect that.
00:06:38.820But in America, you know, we haven't, we hadn't had to face that.
00:06:45.420And so God was already preparing me, preparing my heart for that.
00:06:49.060And so for me, facing what could be the backlash and knowing like, no, we're called to this.
00:14:35.980Christians totally do get duped by that because you're right.
00:14:39.120They do piggyback off of the civil rights movement to say that our oppression, quote unquote, is the same thing as a black person's oppression.
00:14:48.600We have basically parallel history to black America.
00:14:52.440And if you are going to treat black people equally, then that means that you have to give us the same kind of treatment.
00:17:29.120And I would challenge Christians who would be like, oh, you know, I would go to a gay wedding or, you know, I would have made the jumpsuit.
00:17:39.080And I'm just like, okay, what if you're the only Christian?
00:18:21.280I'm afraid that we just don't take sin seriously enough.
00:18:24.460Like if we really believed what God's word says about that sin kills us, all of us, that it's an abomination beforehand, that it's offensive to him.
00:18:33.720If we really cared about the holiness of God and the damage that sin causes someone, both physically and spiritually, I don't think that we would equivocate on this.
00:18:44.680I don't think that we would be going to a ceremony to celebrate what God calls sin, what God calls iniquity.
00:18:51.780If we really took him at his word and if we really knew the gravity of sin, I don't think that this would be hard.
00:19:00.980But really what it comes down to is that a lot of us, even people who identify as Christians, don't really think sin is that big of a deal.
00:19:09.040And that's where I think Satan comes in and has deceived us that sin just isn't that big of a deal.
00:19:16.900And I think sometimes like we, it's interesting because like American Christianity, like we're big on this grace thing now, you know, grace, grace, grace.
00:19:26.680And we're just like, and on the opposite side of that, I also see people who lean on grace.
00:19:34.260And what I mean by that is that I believe that there are some Christians who will not speak up on something like this, who are afraid to speak truth because of sin that that's in their lives.
00:19:45.760That a lot of Christians are battling with sin in their lives.
00:19:49.860You know, they haven't forgiven themselves or they haven't accepted the finished work of the cross and know that repent, repent, turn to God, lean on God like he'll forgive you.
00:20:01.200But that's no reason to say, okay, well, because I have sin in my life or because I know what I did yesterday, because I know what I did last night.
00:20:32.580And it is grace that saves us and grace is important, but it's supposed to compel us to obey and compel us to live holy lives empowered by Christ, compel us to speak the truth.
00:20:44.440And there is a way to speak the truth without being hypocritical, without being mean about it.
00:20:51.720But speaking the truth isn't judgmental in and of itself.
00:20:56.240It is simply doing what God has called us to do.
00:21:54.060There was a very racist call that I got.
00:21:56.560And, and it really just exposes how some, I won't say all, within the LGBTQ, within the leftist movement, see black people as their tools.
00:22:11.560And, and dare I say slaves, ideological slaves, because there was a man who called me and he said, I should have stayed on the phone a little longer.
00:22:41.460But what I got was that he was saying, how many N words or black people went through a struggle, went through a struggle that he aligns with the LGBTQ.
00:22:56.880And he thinks that because of that, like we were saying a bit earlier, that I shouldn't have made a decision that I've made.
00:23:22.360But in his racism, just, it showed itself.
00:23:26.540He totally belittled you and objectified you.
00:23:29.000And like you said, sees you as a tool to advance his own political agenda rather than as a human that has your own worldview and can exercise it.
00:24:03.860I mean, I know that you're strong in your faith.
00:24:05.980And even before that, as you said, God had been preparing for you, which I just love that you had been reading about persecution and you didn't even know God was getting you ready.
00:24:38.080I didn't have, even with the calls and the harassment and everything, the what did I do part did not come until other Christians started saying, what were you thinking?
00:25:07.740Like, why would you even say that to me?
00:25:09.820But that, it wasn't until I started getting those responses from Christians that made me question.
00:25:19.060Because some of these people were people that, you know, I look up to, I highly regard, you know, and they're like, well, that was foolish.
00:25:42.440But for Christians, it took me, because this is 2019, right?
00:25:47.680It took me a long time to get over that response from Christians and to just get to a place where I'm just like, look, this is what God has called me to.
00:26:08.040Um, if you don't understand that, whatever, but, yeah, um, you know, it took me a while to get past that.
00:26:42.260You know, I really, really think, honestly, a lot of the, the questioning that I got really came from a place of this, um, idolatry of security, of financial security.
00:26:57.920Because a lot of the response of Christians questioning me was just like, why would you jeopardize the bag?
00:27:03.780Why would you mess with your money like that?
00:27:05.520Like, you know, like, oh, you're not afraid to lose your business.
00:27:10.820So, and I'm just like, if, if, but if you weren't so obsessed, if you, if you didn't, if you understood Matthew 633, seek first the kingdom and his righteousness and all these things shall be added unto thee.
00:27:23.140You would first and foremost know that I'm good.
00:27:31.700And so just this, it really for, it seemed to have come from this place of just like, don't, yeah, follow Jesus as long as it doesn't mess with your money.
00:27:43.580As long as it doesn't mess with your security.
00:27:45.840As long as it doesn't mess with your safety.
00:31:55.880We'll have the perfect entity to represent you and to help you.
00:32:00.820So what, what are you thinking about all of this now?
00:32:05.980Um, I've been dwelling on this scripture for a past, the past few days is in Zachariah chapter four.
00:32:16.940And it says, um, who are you great mountain before Zerubbabel?
00:32:23.700Well, you will become a plane or another, or another translation says you will become leveled ground before Zerubbabel, you will become leveled ground.
00:32:35.120That's how I see this situation as Zerubbabel was facing great challenges from the government in building the temple.
00:32:44.480And God said to him, not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, says the Lord, who are you great mountain before Zerubbabel, you will become leveled ground.
00:33:00.520So like Zerubbabel, he didn't know how this thing was going to get done, how this situation was going to change.
00:33:32.580And God is already using your testimony and your courage at the very least to help encourage other believers who are facing the same obstacles.
00:33:44.820It reminds me of Jack Phillips and the Masterpiece Cake Shop case.
00:33:49.160It also reminds me of 303 Creative, Lori Smith, the website designer who didn't want to design a website for a same-sex couple getting married.
00:33:59.000And, of course, SCOTUS ruled in her favor and said, look, the First Amendment prohibits the state of Colorado, where she was, from forcing a website designer to create expressive designs, speaking messages with which the designer disagrees.
00:34:12.460Now, I don't know the ins and outs of the comparisons to both your case and Lori Smith's, or between them, rather, but it would seem to me the same issue, that it should be your First Amendment right as an artist to only create designs that express a message that you align with.
00:34:34.280And in this case, if you are creating a wedding garment for someone, you're not actually discriminating against them as a person.
00:34:59.960It is what they are doing that you are saying, look, this garment represents the affirmation and celebration of an action that I disagree with.
00:35:09.860It's not just the individual because, I mean, you've made garments, I'm sure, for individuals that you don't agree with, that probably committed sins at some point that you don't like.
00:35:20.240But that's different than a wedding garment.
00:36:18.980And I see this as very much the same thing.
00:36:21.180And so I hope and believe that there is precedent for you to stand on and that you're able to defend your rights and the rights of other artists.
00:36:49.500And so there's, I mean, there's so many things that we just can't know, but we can trust in his faithfulness, even if we don't know exactly what it's going to look like.
00:36:57.100I know that this is like majorly backtracking, but I'm interested in how you became a Christian.
00:37:17.760So when I was like a teenager, like, I don't know why I wasn't raised in a church.
00:37:23.260Um, but I just always like, from the time I was like a teenager, like 16, 17, I'm like, one day I'm going to give my life to Christ.
00:37:32.200I don't know where that thought came from.
00:37:34.040I mean, it had to come from God, but that was just my, you know, I had it in my head that one day I'm going to have to make this decision.
00:37:41.200And so, you know, young, partying, living life and, um, around the age of like 20, like, um, my mother, you know, I was, my mother, she was a single parent, raised four girls, um, raised actually six, uh, more than that.
00:38:19.780Um, so we went and I just kept going and then I was the only one that kept going.
00:38:25.680Um, and then in, I would say 2009, I was in this dumb relationship and I was like, if this don't work out, I'm gonna go give my life to Christ.
00:45:10.120And so that's where I believe we're at, you know, and Christians really, one, wake up.
00:45:18.240Two, like, I feel like a lot of us, a lot of Christians know better, but because of the culture, like we've become so sucked into the culture.
00:45:28.740Just like in Elijah, prophet Elijah's day, that you knew better.
00:45:33.300The Israelites knew better, but because their leader, the nation's leader, right?
00:46:37.640And so when people hear this testimony of courage, it's just a reminder to them that, oh, the same power of Christ that made her bold makes me bold, too.