Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1010 ｜ Haiti Missionaries Murdered—For What？

00:00:00.000 A young American missionary couple was just killed by gangs in Haiti. Their tragic death

00:00:07.540 has sparked a debate online about Christian mission work, whether it is good, whether it is

00:00:13.660 bad. Man, we have so much to say about this subject and about this sweet couple on today's

00:00:20.280 episode of Relatable. We've also got a very positive and encouraging update on Russell Brand

00:00:26.240 and his developing testimony. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers.

00:00:31.560 Go to GoodRanchers.com. Use code Allie at checkout. That's GoodRanchers.com. Code Allie.

00:00:45.160 Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Wednesday. Hope everyone is having a wonderful week so far.

00:00:51.180 Hope you guys loved yesterday's episode. I found it really encouraging. The things that

00:00:56.160 he was saying about what Scripture tells us to do when it comes to the methods we use to share the

00:01:05.580 gospel. It's really enlightening to me, really edifying to me. So if you haven't listened to

00:01:10.580 or watched yesterday's episode with Willie Robertson of Duck Dynasty fame, then make sure

00:01:16.540 that you go check that out. Really, really good. All right. We've got a variety of Christianity-centric

00:01:23.220 stories to discuss today, some of them happy, lighthearted, and others tragic. And we're going

00:01:29.360 to start with that tragic story. And it involves an American couple named Davey and Natalie Lloyd.

00:01:36.300 They were missionaries in Haiti, and they were tragically killed a few days ago by gangs in Haiti.

00:01:43.940 This has sparked a conversation, a debate online that has actually been going on for a long time

00:01:49.860 about mission work, and specifically Christian mission work in countries that have traditionally

00:01:59.600 rejected Christian values. And the accusation that mission work is some form of evil imperialism,

00:02:09.960 colonialism, white supremacy that needs to be put to an end. And so we're going to talk about

00:02:17.440 specifically what happened to this young couple, and then also just the subject of missions in

00:02:22.600 general, what they have accomplished, and why Christians do this kind of self-sacrificial 0.98

00:02:29.000 mission work, and why the critics of this work are so entirely misguided. So this is according to

00:02:36.360 the Christian Post. Three missionaries, including an American couple, were killed by a gang in Haiti.

00:02:42.900 Last week, gang members in Haiti ambushed and killed a young American missionary couple,

00:02:47.760 Davey and Natalie Lloyd, along with the Haitian director of the mission, Jude Montes. Davey Lloyd

00:02:53.340 was 23. Natalie Lloyd was 21. They worked full-time with Missions in Haiti. It's an Oklahoma-based

00:02:59.300 group founded in 2000 by Davey Lloyd's parents, David and Alicia Lloyd. Natalie Lloyd is the daughter

00:03:06.620 of Missouri State Representative Ben Baker. So that's where I first heard this news. Ben Baker posted

00:03:12.300 on Facebook. The post is then shared to Axe, where he announced the tragic death of his daughter and

00:03:19.920 her husband. Davey and Natalie moved to Haiti shortly after their marriage in June of 2022.

00:03:26.320 The mission's orphanage is located in Lausanne, north of Port-au-Prince, an area plagued by violent

00:03:32.640 gangs. So they were really going into the heart of danger because they cared about the vulnerable

00:03:37.840 populations in Haiti, wanted to not only reach them with the gospel, but also to help them with

00:03:43.300 material resources that they lacked. According to Missions in Haiti, the couple was attacked by three

00:03:48.740 truckloads of armed men. They were reportedly ambushed as they left church in Port-au-Prince on

00:03:53.460 Thursday evening, May 23rd. The mission and church across the street have two security guards, but when

00:04:00.360 Davey came out of the church at 6 p.m., three pickup trucks full of guys with guns overwhelmed them

00:04:05.500 immediately. According to David Lloyd, that is the father of Davey, the incident escalated into a

00:04:11.920 chaotic scene as Davey Lloyd was tied up and beaten by gang members who stole trucks and other belongings

00:04:16.800 from the mission. Children were in the compound at the time. After the gang left with its hall,

00:04:22.300 Davey Lloyd called his father. David Lloyd said he was injured and he was hurt. He was nervous. He was

00:04:28.080 very scared. He was begging me to find someone to get in there and help him. And I did all I could,

00:04:32.960 but I couldn't locate anybody to help. And then the call ended when more armed men arrived,

00:04:38.040 leading to a violent backlash after one of the newly arrived gang members was shot. According to

00:04:42.760 David Lloyd, Davey went in and barricaded himself in my personal home with his wife and mission

00:04:48.140 director Jude Montes. The gang shot that place up until they got the door busted down and shot them

00:04:53.520 and set Davey and Jude on fire. So disturbing. The three missionaries were shot and killed by the gang

00:05:00.640 at about 9 p.m. according to a post by Missions in Haiti. The missionary group has faced numerous

00:05:06.420 challenges, including the kidnapping of Davey Lloyd and his siblings in 2005, from which they were

00:05:12.980 rescued after 21 hours, Lloyd's father said. So even after being kidnapped as a child in 2005,

00:05:21.540 Davey Lloyd and his wife have gone back to Haiti to share the gospel and to advance God's kingdom

00:05:29.080 done through hospitality and love and generosity and truth. The violence against the missionaries

00:05:35.100 is part of a broader pattern of worsening gang activity in Haiti. Gangs armed with weapons primarily

00:05:40.540 trafficked from the United States have been spreading across the capital and other cities, attacking police

00:05:46.740 stations and hospitals and freeing inmates from prisons. Nearly half of Haiti's population faces food

00:05:52.840 shortages and gang violence deaths and injuries increased by 53 percent in the first quarter of this year,

00:05:58.680 compared to the previous quarter. In an interview with BBC, Kenya President William Ruto said the

00:06:05.620 peacekeeping police force is expected to arrive in Haiti in about three weeks. And so they are calling

00:06:12.340 on other countries like Kenya to come to the aid of Haiti to help bring law in order to help bring

00:06:22.240 peace. Unfortunately, Haiti has been in absolute chaos and disarray for many, many, many years. It is a corrupt 0.96

00:06:30.160 and disorderly, disheveled place. The stories from missionaries and workers of different non-profit

00:06:40.960 organizations that have gone there to try to bring aid, bring order, bring help, even just long-lasting help

00:06:48.160 to Haiti to try to create places of employment and jobs and some kind of sustainable society and

00:06:55.980 civilization and safety measures for the people of Haiti. They've come back and they've said like it is

00:07:04.280 so completely, of course it's like a third, it is a third world, it's a third world country, but it's like

00:07:12.400 going to a different time in history that even basic things like filing systems or putting things

00:07:20.480 in some kind of numerical or alphabetical order when it comes to their healthcare or their hospital

00:07:25.080 systems, like it's completely foreign to them. These are basic organizational concepts that we take for

00:07:31.280 granted that in many of these third world countries like Haiti just aren't being employed. They're not

00:07:36.360 even known about in many cases. And so it just continues to cascade. It continues to worsen there,

00:07:46.160 even with the efforts of so many generous Americans and organizations that have tried to come there and to

00:07:54.580 get the country on its feet. And we talk a lot about the dangers of revolutions, of progressive

00:08:04.640 revolutions that claim to be for liberation. And when we look at the Haitian revolution against the

00:08:12.580 French colonizers, you'll see that kind of revolution praised even today among progressives.

00:08:19.020 We saw that in the BLM revolution here. And you can say whatever you want about how the French 0.96

00:08:26.920 colonizers, you know, treated the Haitians. And of course, there's a lot to be said there. There's a lot of

00:08:32.400 bad to be said there for how the colonizers treated the local indigenous people. Absolutely. You can 1.00

00:08:40.080 condemn that and also realize that the result of that revolution has not been liberation and peace

00:08:47.460 and order. And that is, of course, what leftists believe here. If you have some kind of revolution

00:08:53.820 against the American European colonizers of the United States, if you topple over what they would call

00:09:00.320 the white supremacist regime, then finally you'll have peace and order and we'll live in this beautiful

00:09:06.500 John Lennon's imagined type society. And it just doesn't ever result in that. And that is the same

00:09:14.760 thing that has been true in every left wing revolution, whether you're looking at China or Cambodia,

00:09:20.800 or you're looking at Zimbabwe, it always ends in this kind of chaos and this disarray. And that,

00:09:28.540 of course, is what has happened with Haiti. And Christian missionaries have been the greatest and

00:09:35.120 the bravest bringers of light and order and peace to Haiti, and they have suffered greatly for it.

00:09:42.500 And this couple is another example of that.

00:09:56.400 Here's what Ben Baker, the representative, state representative from Missouri, posted on Facebook

00:10:04.300 after Natalie died. This is one of the posts that he posted. He said,

00:10:07.920 I just got off the phone with Donald Trump a bit ago, who was just calling to offer condolences for

00:10:12.240 Davy and Natalie to Naomi and I. He spoke so kind and down to earth. He mentioned how sorry he was

00:10:18.260 if this evil happened to our kids and how beautiful their devotion was to their calling and to the

00:10:22.120 people of Haiti. He wanted to know if we knew who did this because he wants the criminals brought to

00:10:27.180 justice. He also mentioned how he couldn't believe how beautiful they were, that they looked like

00:10:32.000 models. We talked over for over six minutes, and it meant a lot to us to know he took time out to

00:10:37.900 recognize Davy and Natalie. That is really, really sweet. That is really kind and really considerate

00:10:43.600 of Donald Trump. But just as an aside, this is not about Donald Trump. But you hear this from a lot

00:10:48.320 of people that he does a lot of hidden acts of kindness and consideration that are not always

00:10:53.980 publicized. And I don't know, I think that that's just important to know. And like, I do wonder,

00:10:59.580 again, I'm not trying to make this about right and left and political, but I do wonder if our

00:11:04.640 current president of the United States had anything to say about this, because these are Americans,

00:11:09.660 and I'm sure that they were conservative Christians, but it shouldn't matter, right? Like, 0.75

00:11:16.020 the president should be making a statement about this, should be calling them. Maybe he did. Maybe he

00:11:21.560 did have something to say about it, and we just don't know. But I personally haven't seen that. I am

00:11:28.040 happy to be corrected. And honestly, I still hope that he does say something about it, because their

00:11:34.800 lives deserve to be honored. And so, absolutely tragic. We just need to pray for their families,

00:11:43.180 pray for his parents, pray for her parents. They will never, ever get over the loss of their child.

00:11:49.300 And even though, thank the Lord, they have faith, and they understand the joy and the peace

00:11:55.400 of the knowledge that their children are in heaven. Their children would, they would rather be nowhere

00:12:04.820 else. They are in the presence of the Savior that they have worshiped for so long, whose gospel they

00:12:12.780 gave their lives for, and their reward is great. They are beholding a far greater glory that so

00:12:21.340 incredibly outweighs any trial that they experienced here in this life. And they are worshiping Jesus

00:12:30.160 face-to-face. They have the transcendent joy, the transcendent peace that we all long for here

00:12:37.820 in this life and cannot attain until we get to the other side of glory. They've got it.

00:12:44.700 They've got it. They have arrived home. And so, I'm thankful for that. There is mourning, of course.

00:12:54.700 I think that's natural. Even Jesus wept at the death of Lazarus, knowing that he was about to

00:13:00.800 raise Lazarus back to life. So, I think it's okay for us to mourn, for us to cry, because death is

00:13:06.380 unnatural. It reminds us that it's not supposed to be this way. It reminds us of our longing for

00:13:13.120 redemption. That death is the result of the fall. It's the result of sin that we are supposed to

00:13:20.080 be walking in the garden in the cool of the day with our Lord. And that one day it will be like

00:13:27.700 that again for his flock, for his children. That one day there will be no more sadness, no more

00:13:33.540 sickness, no more gangs, no more violence, no more corruption, no more politics. That we will have

00:13:39.840 perfect peace and satisfaction forever and ever. Stories like this remind us that something is

00:13:45.480 missing. Something is not right. Something has been broken. So, it's okay to be sad. It's okay to

00:13:50.760 mourn. But we do not mourn as those who have no hope. We mourn as those with the hope and the knowledge

00:13:58.020 that Jesus is coming back and he is going to win and that there will be victory forever and more. And so,

00:14:04.840 that's how we look at any story of death, but especially something like this. The best people

00:14:11.240 in the world killed by some of the worst people in the world. And I just mean best and worst in terms

00:14:18.700 of what they are offering for those around them. These people cultivated goodness and life and hope,

00:14:27.740 whereas their murderers cultivate only death and chaos. One side, worshiping the prince of the power

00:14:36.200 of the air. The other side, being made alive in Christ and being agents of order and light. And so,

00:14:43.680 tragic in that sense, thankful though for the hope that we have in Christ and the hope that their

00:14:49.980 parents also have even as they are mourning this tragedy. So, a little more background on this

00:14:57.100 mission group. They've done such amazing work and I think it's important to highlight that.

00:15:01.580 So, this is from their website, Missions in Haiti. We started Missions in Haiti again. This is David and

00:15:07.180 Alicia Lloyd, the parents of Davey. In Haiti in 2000, with the purpose of setting Haiti on a different

00:15:15.100 course, we aim to accomplish this by targeting the country's biggest need, its children. Although the

00:15:19.960 entire nation is steeped in poverty, the children suffer the worst. Thousands are malnourished,

00:15:24.200 uneducated, and headed for hopeless lives apart from Christ. In 2002, about 100 kids attended Missions

00:15:33.800 in Haiti's summer Bible school program. And that fall, there were 10 children at the orphanage and

00:15:38.760 another 30 enrolled in the school. So, Missions in Haiti has several ministries. They've got the House

00:15:47.040 of Compassion, for example, and they now care for 36 children, 18 girls and 18 boys. These are children

00:15:57.980 that don't have parents, so they're orphans. They stay at the house until they have finished school.

00:16:04.400 They're ready to be out on their own. Missions in Haiti also has the Good Hope Boys Home. And

00:16:12.880 this was started in 2008 when Haiti was hit by four back-to-back hurricanes in a period of about

00:16:19.600 four weeks. They decided to open this boys' home to bring in boys who had lost everything as a result

00:16:25.720 of those storms. They have Good Hope Church. So, this is a church there in Haiti that they have built.

00:16:33.080 You can see the pictures online. It's beautiful. Of course, the Christian Haitians go there to worship. 1.00

00:16:37.980 There are also several ministries within that church that's helping the poorest and the most

00:16:42.700 vulnerable in that area. They have Bonaspoir School. I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing that

00:16:47.680 correctly. This is a school providing free education for the children there in Haiti.

00:16:53.320 They have a children's church specifically. Oh my goodness, this is making me cry.

00:16:59.080 The sweet children there just worshiping in the church that was created by this missions group.

00:17:05.260 They have a bakery where they are employing the poorest Haitians there and also offering food to

00:17:12.760 the hungry Haitians there. They've got a child sponsorship program that they created. And so,

00:17:18.880 you can sponsor a child in Haiti. Sponsor one of the children at the House of Compassion for $25 a month.

00:17:26.860 You can help a child attend the school that they started in Port-au-Prince for $15 a month. And so,

00:17:32.560 they have lots of ways for people around the world to help the poorest children there in Haiti. So,

00:17:40.060 that's what this ministry has been up to. That's what this missions organization has been doing since

00:17:45.940 2000, helping the children there. And they are doing their best to not only offer them resources and

00:17:54.520 offer them the gospel of Christ and hope for their souls, but also to protect them from the gang

00:18:01.080 violence that exploits these children, that harms these children, that traffics these children.

00:18:06.240 Here is Davey, last year, describing the threat of gang violence that these children in Haiti

00:18:15.000 have to suffer from every day. This is Sot One. 0.88

00:18:19.000 The uprise of gang violence and gangs taking over, it's a whole different kind of problem.

00:18:26.200 And to see the fear that it's created in a lot of people, because it is, it is dangerous, you know,

00:18:32.100 even though we might have peace right here on our little block of the street, a couple miles north

00:18:36.960 of us, a mile north of us, you know, if you try to get through there and don't abide by it the way

00:18:41.800 the gang wants you to, they will probably kill you. Haiti wanted the international community to step in, 0.97

00:18:46.920 they wanted the government to step in, but nobody has been able to, or nobody has. And a lot of them

00:18:53.320 are turning to God and saying, God, we need you to help us because we realize this is beyond what we

00:18:58.920 can do. And we need someone to step in and help us. Okay. So you can just hear and see his heart and

00:19:07.720 knowing full well, the danger that they are facing and counting the cost and saying, this is worth it.

00:19:14.200 Most of us don't have that courage. Not everyone is called to do the same kind of mission work. But

00:19:22.120 just speaking for myself, I see that and I am convicted that I need more courage. I need more

00:19:30.800 self-sacrifice. I need to emulate this kind of selflessness more. And again, we're all called to

00:19:36.540 different places. Not everyone is called to Haiti. Not everyone is called to a third world country.

00:19:40.740 Evangelism might look different in different phases of your life and the different talents

00:19:46.180 and resources that God has given you and how he has directly led you. But I think that we can all

00:19:52.740 see the bravery and the love of Christ that was exemplified by these young people and be moved

00:20:00.980 more towards the heart of God and convicted of our complacency and our addiction to comfort.

00:20:09.080 That's what comes to mind for me. I, like so many of us, even those who are Christians who say that

00:20:15.700 we've counted the cost, we are addicted to convenience and comfort. I know that can be true

00:20:19.720 for me. So just hearing him and seeing him talk about this and running into the danger for the sake

00:20:26.060 of the most vulnerable, for the sake of children, it convicts me. Not everyone, though, has had that

00:20:31.840 kind of reaction or even mourning for the loss of life of fellow Americans. Even if you're not a

00:20:38.360 Christian, we can see something like this and say, OK, they're doing a lot of humanitarian good that

00:20:43.320 the government there is not doing in Haiti. And so we can be sad about this young couple dying and

00:20:49.880 the prime of their life, it would seem. But unfortunately, there is a tweet that has gone viral that has sparked

00:20:55.980 the debate about the ethics of mission work. And that comes from Kareem Wafa al-Husseini, who is,

00:21:04.960 you might have guessed it, a Muslim on Twitter. This tweet has 110,000 likes and 8,300 retweets.

00:21:17.960 So the original tweet says, these Oklahoma-based missionaries were both slaughtered by gangs in

00:21:22.980 Haiti yesterday. Prayers for both of their families. Simple tweet, a picture of the couple.

00:21:27.620 And then the quote tweet says, random question, but what's the point of Christian missionaries

00:21:34.000 going to Haiti when the country is already 93% Christians?

00:21:40.420 Here are some responses to that. White supremacy, next question.

00:21:55.120 They are the wrong kind of Christian, someone said, meaning that Christian missionaries think 0.93

00:22:00.880 that the Haitians who say that they're Christians, they are the wrong kind of Christian, so they're 1.00

00:22:05.200 still going. Someone else responded, human trafficking. Someone else responded, for the 0.79

00:22:10.380 gram, so for Instagram. Someone responded, make it hate, but why go? Did they not learn from the

00:22:18.380 dude who went to the island and was eaten? Like, it seems so many Christians want to go and spread this 1.00

00:22:23.200 and that. Can we as a people just mind our own business? There's just a time to say, nah, that's a bad

00:22:29.180 idea. I mean, that's kind of the whole, like, premise of Christianity, uh, is that is an evangelistic,

00:22:37.340 inherently an evangelistic faith that the last command we are given is to go, therefore, and make

00:22:45.440 disciples of all nations, as we talked about yesterday, baptizing them in the name of the Father,

00:22:51.120 the Son, and the Holy Spirit. That is the Great Commission. This is an inherently telling religion.

00:22:58.040 We worship the word made flesh who dwelt among us. That is one distinguishing feature of Christianity

00:23:05.540 versus, say, Buddhism that attaches holiness to silence and to solitude. No, we are a commissioned

00:23:15.120 and communal religion that believes in liberation from sin and that the only way to accomplish that,

00:23:24.620 the joy and the purpose and the satisfaction for which we all long is through Christ. We believe

00:23:30.420 that that is good news. We are to be ministers of that good news. Um, so these people, of course,

00:23:38.600 don't understand Christianity. And even if they do understand Christianity, they believe that it's

00:23:44.220 not something that needs to be told because, of course, they don't believe that it's good news.

00:23:48.460 Um, someone also responded, so they feel good about themselves. Uh, someone else responded. This

00:23:55.640 person has a blue check mark, quite a few likes on this tweet. They were probably there on a child

00:24:00.200 snatching mission. Um, now there are other people defending them. There are other people saying,

00:24:06.100 look, they're offering humanitarian aid. They're giving resources, but many more comments saying

00:24:12.380 performative white saviors. Um, another guy says money. Um, ahem, trafficking. All of, all of these, 0.52

00:24:21.120 all of these comments saying trafficking. The, uh, comment that I saw with the most likes is one

00:24:26.220 that I've already said. White supremacy is the reason. Next question. It's a white savior thing. 0.73

00:24:31.820 It's how churches launder money. All right. So that is the thought apparently by a lot of people,

00:24:38.700 particularly on the left about why Christians do mission work. And there, uh, are several

00:24:43.820 Instagram accounts actually that I have seen professing Christians that I know following

00:24:49.540 and liking. They're both about, uh, the performative and dangerous and exploitative nature of Christian 1.00

00:24:57.360 mission work. Now I am not saying that every mission has been executed well. I am not defending

00:25:06.860 every missionary. I am not defending every method. I am not saying that there has never been harm done

00:25:14.440 by those who profess Christianity, who claim the name of Christ and claim to be ministers of the gospel.

00:25:21.580 I am sure that that has happened, but overwhelmingly Christians have been the greatest force for good

00:25:29.760 in all of history. The greatest force for humanitarianism in all of history. It doesn't

00:25:39.520 even come close. It does not even come close from the inception of Christianity and the creation of

00:25:45.860 hospitals, of orphanages, of organizations to feed and to clothe and to help the poor,

00:25:52.840 to the creation of, to the creation of, and the spreading of the idea of human rights, to the work

00:26:00.680 that we see throughout history and up until today. The greatest force for humanitarian good has been

00:26:09.340 Christianity, has been Christians who are willing without any profit incentive to go into the most 1.00

00:26:17.020 dangerous and the poorest communities and to bring life and hope and resources. Again, nothing else comes 1.00

00:26:25.840 close. No other religion, no other faith, no other kind of organization, no other motivation has been

00:26:33.460 greater than the motivation of the gospel in Jesus's followers to bring goodness and help to those who

00:26:42.380 need it most. And this is yet another example of that. Now, this claim that Haiti is already 93%

00:26:51.260 Christian. So why are there Christians? Why are there Christians even there? Shouldn't they already, 1.00

00:26:57.160 shouldn't they go somewhere else where there are no Christians? Haiti is already Christian. Well, 1.00

00:27:01.540 we're going to look a little bit more closely at that statistic.

00:27:12.380 All right. So according to the Joshua Project, a research initiative seeking to identify the ethnic

00:27:20.060 people, people groups of the world with the fewest followers of Jesus, these are the stats. So the

00:27:27.320 country of Haiti. So there have been zero people groups unreached, which is good. That means all people

00:27:33.680 groups, not all individuals, have had some kind of interaction with a Christian or with a Christian

00:27:40.760 organization. So all people groups in Haiti have heard the gospel. There are, according to them,

00:27:50.980 according to surveys where people are professing whatever their faith is, there's no theological test

00:27:57.400 here. 94.84% of Haitians adhere to Christianity. They say 17.53% are evangelical. That means the

00:28:10.620 rest of them are some form of Catholic evangelical annual growth rate 2.2%. However, here's the issue

00:28:20.340 with this. Obviously, Haiti is not operating like a Christian country. They are not operating in 0.64

00:28:27.000 general according to Christian values. So Christian adherents, according to the Joshua Project, are merely 0.59

00:28:32.660 those who claim to be Christians nominally, not necessarily Bible-believing, true-faith Christians.

00:28:38.080 The Joshua Project also notably does not include demographics for those who adhere to or practice

00:28:45.140 voodoo, of which, according to CIA data, there's a large crossover with nominal Christianity in Haiti.

00:28:53.120 And so, of course, the Joshua Project is not accounting for that. And as we've talked about before,

00:28:59.400 voodoo is extremely popular in Haiti. The vast majority of the Haitian population also practices

00:29:04.640 hoodoo. There is this strange mystic mix of Catholicism and voodoo and witchcraft there in 0.83

00:29:13.260 Haiti. That is the prominent form of so-called Christianity. And so, when an organization like

00:29:18.700 the Joshua Project says, yeah, the majority of the country is Christian, of course, they are not 1.00

00:29:24.140 looking at all of the doctrines that are believed or being practiced there in Haiti. The fact of the matter

00:29:29.680 is that Haiti is absolutely overrun with satanic practices. And actually, we see this very strange

00:29:37.820 mix of witchcraft, mysticism, and Catholicism, not only in Haiti, but in several parts of Africa,

00:29:44.960 also in South America and Mexico. This is a very strange and popular partnership that we see in a lot

00:29:52.580 of these third world countries, poorer countries. And so, that is actually the dominant belief system

00:30:01.200 in Haiti. And even that 17% of evangelicals, that number that we see, we just don't know how accurate

00:30:09.780 that is. That number is still probably high, again, because it's just hard to say whether these people

00:30:16.380 are really believing in and practicing Christianity. Haiti is 70% Catholic. This is kind of like the

00:30:24.860 saying that you see, 70% Catholic, 20% Protestant, and 100% voodoo. And so, even the professing 0.96

00:30:32.660 evangelicals there may also be practicing a form of voodooism and witchcraft. And we can learn a lot 1.00

00:30:41.800 about how Haiti got to where it is by looking a little bit at the history that we've talked about

00:30:47.500 before. During Haiti's early history, the Spanish and French both imported slaves from Africa to

00:30:55.980 maximize productivity on the sugar plantations in the colony of Saint-Dominique, modern-day Haiti,

00:31:02.000 obviously evil there, not just in the buying of the slaves and the transporting them, but also in the

00:31:08.240 selling of the slaves by the African leaders. That seems to be overlooked very often in conversations

00:31:13.840 about the tragedy of slavery. As slaves arrived in the New World, they were exposed to new Catholic 1.00

00:31:19.000 doctrine and belief. Many adopted aspects of the new Catholic practice and combined it with their

00:31:23.520 traditional African spiritual beliefs, voodoo. As time went on, the slaves' African spiritualist 1.00

00:31:28.280 beliefs became more of a point of pride as Catholicism was increasingly viewed as the religion

00:31:32.400 of brutal slaveholders. So that kind of goes back to what we were talking about in the revolution,

00:31:37.680 in Haiti, seeing Christianity or seeing Catholicism as the religion of the colonizer and allowing it 0.99

00:31:45.620 to kind of be eclipsed by this voodooism. Soon after the revolution in Haiti, all foreign priests 0.99

00:31:50.620 in the Haitian Catholic Church fled and Rome cut off all relations. This allowed the early Haitian 1.00

00:31:54.700 Catholic Church to form and change without oversight from the outside church. This, in addition to the

00:31:59.240 ritualistic aspects of Catholicism, has helped voodoo become pervasive throughout Haitian Catholicism and is 0.58

00:32:05.140 why the two often appear to coexist so easily in a system of religious pluralism. This is according

00:32:11.740 to Aid for Haiti, the history of Christianity and missions in Haiti. Aid for Haiti is a Christian

00:32:17.400 missions organization. So this is kind of their summary of much of the history of religion in Haiti.

00:32:24.580 Protestants failed to gain a lot of ground in the urban areas in Haiti and thus focus their energies

00:32:29.500 and attention on poor rural areas with remarkable success. We've talked about how also the voodoo

00:32:38.460 practices and the rituals there in Haiti have led to cannibalistic practices throughout history,

00:32:44.880 child sacrifice practices. Of course, that's what we see in many of these poor countries, including in

00:32:50.240 places in Africa. The African spiritualism that the left likes to tell us is this peaceful,

00:32:57.180 peaceful religion, of course, has justified the awful pagan practices of child and human sacrifice 0.99

00:33:05.340 for centuries. This article goes on to say, it is clear, spiritualism in the form of voodoo remains

00:33:11.800 the dominant worldview and lens through which Haitians view all aspects of life. And unfortunately, 0.65

00:33:17.420 this also makes it very difficult for Americans, for Christians in particular, to bring aid to Haiti

00:33:22.860 because many of the healing mechanisms or many of the solutions that are brought forth by Christian 0.84

00:33:33.740 doctors there, by non-profit organizations are seen as some sort of witchcraft and voodoo. And actually,

00:33:40.900 we've talked about this before. Missionaries that I've known that have gone to Haiti,

00:33:45.800 like they're trying to encourage, for example, the mothers there to breastfeed their children rather

00:33:51.140 than feed them this like corn paste that they are feeding their children, which can be extremely

00:33:56.020 dangerous for the babies there. It's not nutritionally good. The mothers very often will 1.00

00:34:01.280 reject breastfeeding their children because they believe that it's voodoo. They believe that it's

00:34:05.780 witchcraft. And so there are so many problems ideologically there. And so to answer the question of why Christian

00:34:12.900 missionaries are still going to Haiti because Haiti needs it, because Haiti is being dominated in many 0.89

00:34:21.760 cases by demonic possession. We don't believe that witches exist. We don't believe in the superstitions

00:34:30.340 of witchcraft, but we believe that Satan is real. Satan operates through those witchcraft practices.

00:34:37.060 That is why the Bible calls those practices any kind of necromancy, talking to the dead,

00:34:43.620 any kind of mediums where someone is saying that they can communicate, a human is saying that they can

00:34:51.120 communicate to the dead or through the dead to you. That is prohibited in the Old Testament.

00:34:58.600 Any kind of psychic is prohibited in the Old Testament. And yes, we today do not abide by all of Israel's laws,

00:35:06.620 but we can look at Israel's laws to see the principles that still should be applied today.

00:35:12.140 And I see no reason why it should change. God calls voodoo and witchcraft and every form of that 1.00

00:35:19.480 kind of paganism that I think even some Christians dabble in today. It's all dangerous. It's all wrong. 1.00

00:35:26.640 And it leads to this kind of chaos and human rights atrocities in places like Haiti. So if you want to know

00:35:35.620 why Christians are there, it's because Haiti needs Christianity. It needs the order that it brings. 1.00

00:35:41.480 It needs the light that it brings. It needs the hope that it brings. And some people are so anti-God

00:35:48.920 that they actually believe that leaving Haiti and poor Haitian children to their own devices and

00:35:58.620 allowing children to continue to be the victims of violence and trafficking and rape and corruption

00:36:04.840 and just crushing poverty is actually better than white American Christian ministries going there.

00:36:12.140 And they think that they are being progressive by being, quote unquote, anti-colonialism when really

00:36:18.260 they're being anti-child by taking that stance. And that is, of course, what progressivism does.

00:36:24.360 It gives you a heart of stone and a brain of mush to the point to where you are willing to sacrifice

00:36:31.340 the very vulnerable people that progressivism claims it advocates for. It is so entirely backwards and is

00:36:41.120 so destructive everywhere it goes. And that is yet another reason why, no, it's not possible to be a

00:36:46.260 Christian progressive because you are becoming an agent of chaos and violence and exploitation 1.00

00:36:52.840 and pro-paganism and pro-child sacrifice. Even if you don't mean to become that, its ideology always

00:37:00.120 leads to that. And so, thankfully, there are Christians who have battled against the anti-missions,

00:37:11.400 anti-gospel mentality of so much of the West, and they have continued to brave the dangers there.

00:37:18.780 This is according to World Magazine. Haiti's population ranks as the poorest in the Western

00:37:23.580 Hemisphere, according to the Public Reference Bureau. A 2010 earthquake that killed an estimated

00:37:28.620 300,000 people, widespread corruption, civil unrest, and ongoing gang violence have further

00:37:33.400 exacerbated problems. But thankfully, there are still Christian missionaries there who 1.00

00:37:41.240 are doing amazing work. A 2017 Haitian government survey found roughly 30,000 children living in

00:37:47.200 roughly 750 orphanages throughout the country. Those orphanages are run by Christians. That's up 1.00

00:37:53.680 150 percent from the roughly 300 orphanages in place before the 2010 earthquake. The parents are

00:37:59.960 living in poverty and drop the child off at the orphanage in hopes that he or she will receive

00:38:03.580 free food, and the Christians are there to bring them in. The orphanages are also concerned about 1.00

00:38:10.620 spiritual development with staff seeking to show the children how to be godly and responsible

00:38:14.460 citizens. Now, unfortunately, over the years, less than reputable groups have opened sham orphanages in

00:38:22.400 an effort to cash in on billions of dollars of international aid, and that is absolutely evil,

00:38:30.260 and those people should be punished. They will be punished by God if they do not repent. That is the worst

00:38:36.040 form of exploitation. And so that, of course, does exist, but we should be thankful for the Christians 1.00

00:38:42.620 who are continuing to have Christlike courage. The brand millennial, Katie, she made a good post

00:38:49.920 on Twitter about this. She said,

00:38:51.820 To all the ignorant people saying, 0.99

00:38:53.100 Those missionaries should have never gone to Haiti. Who are you to question God's plan? Is he not 0.99

00:38:57.620 sovereign? I promise that Christ gathered some of his sheep through that beautiful young couple.

00:39:03.100 Who knows how many more after their death? If it weren't for John Patton, we're going to talk about

00:39:08.360 him in a second, who went to the cannibal islands of New Hebrides, then that the entire island wouldn't 0.75

00:39:16.100 have repented and become Christians. Fiji was also a cannibalistic, savage land until John Hunt brought 1.00

00:39:22.140 the gospel and totally Christianized that land. What about Jim Elliott, who died and paved the way for

00:39:27.060 his wife to spread the gospel far and wide with the Akkas? God has used many missionaries' lives and 1.00

00:39:34.160 martyrdoms to Christianize entire nations many times over. Think before you speak. And she encourages us

00:39:42.620 to read about Christian history. She says several Puritans came to America to spread the gospel to

00:39:48.740 savage nation, Native American tribes, and in turn, many Indians were saved. So glad all of those

00:39:54.580 missionaries were brave enough to go where God called them to go. If I perish, I perish. How beautiful

00:39:59.340 are the feet of those who spread the good news. Yes and amen. And the fact of the matter is, is that,

00:40:07.860 yes, this is politically incorrect to think this way today. To think that those who live lives of true

00:40:16.780 savagery, who live lives of paganism, that they need to be changed in any way. Because in that is the 1.00

00:40:27.400 implication that there's such thing as right and wrong, that there's such thing as good and evil,

00:40:32.020 that there is a better way to live. In that is the implication that some cultures are worse than others.

00:40:39.820 And we're not allowed to believe that today in our morally relativistic society. We are supposed to

00:40:48.160 believe that however someone wants to live their life is fine. And we can't intervene. We can't

00:40:56.740 interfere. However someone wants to conduct themselves, even if it means exploiting children,

00:41:05.200 even if it means gang violence, well, who are we to say anything about it? Now, it's interesting,

00:41:11.880 those same people who claim that, those same people who say, ah, we should not intervene in a

00:41:17.780 place like Haiti. Christians should not be there because that's colonialism. That's imperialism. 0.99

00:41:22.520 There's something wrong about that. And, you know, that couple just learned their lesson. Those are the

00:41:26.860 same people that would support efforts by the United States government to punish a country like Kenya 0.79

00:41:32.540 for passing a law that is anti-gay or anti-LGBTQ. So they're okay with that kind of imperialism as long

00:41:40.840 as it's spreading the pride flag. They're not okay with so-called imperialism if it means spreading the

00:41:46.860 gospel. They're actually completely fine with taking over institutions and countries in the name of

00:41:52.920 progressive ideology. They are not okay with Christian missionaries going there and spreading the work and 0.99

00:41:59.200 the message of Christ. So it's not actually that they are against changing countries and changing

00:42:04.580 cultures and changing institutions. They just want to make sure that all of those entities are changed

00:42:09.680 into their image, match their ideas, are forced to believe the things and practice the things that

00:42:16.440 they do. They just don't want the gospel spread. That's what it is. It's not an anti-colonial message.

00:42:23.500 It's an anti-Christian message. That's what's going on here. Because as we've seen,

00:42:30.960 progressivism is extremely imperialistic. It will take over every school, every organization,

00:42:39.040 every business, every church, every country. It will seek to trample on any opposition and ensure

00:42:49.560 that every individual and every entity conforms to its will. That is what progressivism does.

00:43:00.340 And so, again, they're not against influence and change and conquest. They just want it to be theirs.

00:43:09.080 That's what's going on here. So just keep that in mind.

00:43:14.180 I promise you, if they found a country that was, if they were the ones with their ideology

00:43:26.360 leading the conquest of the new world, and they found out that the Cherokees and the Choctaws were 1.00

00:43:34.820 homophobic, they would have killed them too. They would have done everything possible to make sure 0.98

00:43:41.740 that all of those barbarians believed and practiced what they wanted them to. Of course, 0.99

00:43:48.900 we see that through their lawfare here in the United States, making sure that the bakers bake the cake

00:43:54.440 that they want them to bake, that the florists make the florist arrangements, the floral arrangements

00:43:58.960 that they want them to make, that the web designer makes the website that they want them to make,

00:44:03.100 and they will absolutely ruin your life and take your money until you conform to their will.

00:44:08.460 Progressives are the most imperialistic, in conquest, domination-minded, power-hungry ideologues

00:44:17.580 in the world. That's why they've taken over the UN, the WHO, the WEF, our intelligence agencies,

00:44:26.800 most of the federal government, public education, academia. They have all the institutional power,

00:44:33.420 and they have the audacity to tell individual charity-motivated, Christ-empowered Christians

00:44:41.580 that they are wrong, money-hungry, greedy, power-hungry, exploitative because they go into

00:44:48.040 poor countries and offer hope and help to the most vulnerable. It's so ugly. It's so absolutely

00:44:55.980 backwards and demonic. I mean, some of these posts, again, 4,000 likes. I'm sorry to say this,

00:45:03.680 but they brought it upon themselves. Their naivete, another post says, doesn't downplay

00:45:10.340 the tragedy. So I guess she's trying to kind of be nuanced there. Someone, this is 2,000 likes,

00:45:17.040 two less colonizers. Amen. May this keep all the colonizers away. Yay! It's better for children to

00:45:23.680 be trafficked and victims of gang violence than to receive an education and to be placed in an

00:45:31.120 orphanage and be given help and food and to be rescued. Keep all colonizers away. These people 0.99

00:45:39.100 are so evil and stupid. I'm sorry. I'm sure I'm going to get some message that it was mean to say 1.00

00:45:44.900 that, but I think we can just use plain language here. Should have minded their own business, but 0.93

00:45:50.860 Christians seem to be allergic to this concept. Actually, yes. Yes, we are. Mind your own business.

00:45:58.920 No, Christians are not very good at that because we have been given the right and the responsibility

00:46:03.280 by the creator of the universe to make disciples of all nations, and you owe your human rights and

00:46:11.460 your freedom and any flourishing that you have experienced and benefited from in the United States

00:46:18.820 of America to Christians who refused to mind their own business, to Christians who decided to, 0.68

00:46:27.280 for the sake of liberty, to worship God how they wanted to worship him, to forge a new country

00:46:35.500 where people could thrive in the name of all image bearers being created equal by a God who has endowed

00:46:44.260 us with certain inalienable rights. That is a Christian idea. We all benefit from Christians 0.89

00:46:51.280 refusing to just mind their own business. And praise God, this couple did not just mind their

00:46:59.340 own business. Who knows how many children they loved, how many people they introduced the gospel

00:47:04.420 of Christ to, how many people they fed. And we'll end this segment with this. We've talked about this

00:47:12.040 story before, but this is just a reminder of how Christianity so drastically changed the world. 0.83

00:47:19.560 Like, pair yesterday's conversation with this one. You never know. You just don't know the

00:47:26.340 rippling effect that you sharing the gospel with one individual can have on their lives, on their

00:47:34.380 communities, on nations. What God does through the simple obedience of the believer is absolutely,

00:47:43.360 absolutely incredible.

00:47:44.600 So this is an article by John Piper called You Will Be Eaten by Cannibals, the story of John G.

00:48:02.300 Patton. We have read this story before, but it's just a good reminder. It's a good reminder for me,

00:48:07.180 just so much encouragement. 19th century missionary John G. Patton left a successful urban ministry in

00:48:12.320 Glasgow. Is it Glasgow or Glasgow? I should know. Glasgow. I lived in Edinburgh for a little bit,

00:48:19.760 so I should really remember that. In Glasgow, to bring the gospel to the tribe to the Southern

00:48:24.460 Pacific Islands, many of whom practiced cannibalism, despite much criticism for his decision to go.

00:48:30.420 So even back in the 19th century, they were saying, why would you do this? This is not worth it. It's

00:48:35.660 too dangerous. We had Christians saying, nope, I don't care what you say. This is what I've been

00:48:41.020 commissioned to do. Patton said this to that criticism. I realized that I was immortal till

00:48:46.480 my master's work was done. I was immortal till my master's work was done. That reminds me of the

00:48:53.800 first question and answer to the Heidelberg Catechism. I was immortal till my master's work

00:49:00.940 was done. The assurance came to me as if a voice out of heaven had spoken that not a musket would be 1.00

00:49:05.360 fired to wound us, not a club prevailed to strike us, nor a spear leave the hand in which it was held

00:49:10.280 vibrating to be thrown, not an arrow leave the bow, or a killing stone the fingers, without the

00:49:15.520 permission of Jesus Christ, who is all the power in heaven and on earth. That is so good. We are

00:49:28.540 immortal until God calls us home. So we have nothing to fear because God has written every single one

00:49:35.560 of our days before any of them came to be. That's Psalm 139. He and his wife arrived at a small

00:49:42.280 island called Aniwa, I think that's how you pronounce it, in 1866 to share the gospel. The natives there

00:49:48.060 were cannibals. They occasionally ate the flesh of their defeated foes. They practiced infanticide and 1.00

00:49:53.980 widow sacrifice, killing the widows of deceased men so that they could serve their husbands in the next

00:49:59.680 world. So again, witchcraft has consequences. It has horrible consequences, murderous consequences. 0.98

00:50:05.560 In the next 15 years, John and Margaret Patton saw the entire island of Aniwa turn to Christ.

00:50:10.980 Years later, he wrote, I claimed Aniwa for Jesus, and by the grace of God, Aniwa now worships at the

00:50:16.720 Savior's feet. At the moment when I put the bread and wine into those dark hands, once stained with the

00:50:21.400 blood of cannibalism, but now stretched out to receive and partake the emblems and seals of the

00:50:25.740 Redeemer's love, I had a foretaste of the joy of glory that well nigh broke my heart to pieces.

00:50:31.340 I shall never taste a deeper bliss till I gaze on the glorified face of Jesus himself.

00:50:36.400 Years later, in 1877, when people argued that the aborigines of Australia were subhuman and capable of

00:50:43.220 conversion or civilization, unfortunately, that is an idea that has persisted about a lot of people

00:50:49.060 groups. Whether you're talking about Jews in the Holocaust, whether you're talking about babies in

00:50:52.700 the womb today, people in power always insist that one group, or often have insisted that one group

00:51:00.700 of people is subhuman. Of course, this is true of Black Americans during the time of slavery, and 1.00

00:51:08.000 Christians have been the ones to stand up and say, no, that's not true. And it's actually because of the 1.00

00:51:13.620 mission work that Christians have done in these third world countries that has affirmed throughout

00:51:18.720 history, our conviction that that is a lie, that no human being is less than or less made in the image

00:51:25.600 of God than another. He said this, he fought back against that awful eugenics-minded idea.

00:51:35.580 Recall, he said, what the gospel has done for the near kindred of those same aborigines. On our own

00:51:41.720 natium, 3,500 cannibals have been led to renounce their heathenism. In Fiji, 79,000 cannibals have

00:51:50.220 been brought under the influence of the gospel, and 13,000 members of the churches are professing to

00:51:55.060 live and work for Jesus. In Samoa, 34,000 cannibals have professed Christianity, and in 19 years, 0.76

00:52:01.820 its college has sent forth 206 native teachers and evangelists. On our New Hebrides, more than 12,000

00:52:10.160 cannibals have been brought to sit at the feet of Christ, though I mean not to say that they are 0.99

00:52:14.680 all model Christians, and 133 of the natives have been trained and sent forth as teachers and preachers

00:52:22.600 of the gospel. Yes, praise God for that. That is also the story of many African countries that reeked 1.00

00:52:31.760 with the stench of human sacrifice to their gods in the name of voodoo and witchcraft and their 1.00

00:52:41.680 paganism. Christians came in, who many today and throughout history would call evil colonizers, 0.99

00:52:48.700 and they said, no more. No more. In the name of Christ, no more. No more child sacrifice.

00:52:55.980 No more child slavery. No more of this voodoo. No more of this witchcraft, which is killing your 0.99

00:53:02.680 people and also preventing you from making any sort of civilization. Thank God for Christians who 1.00

00:53:09.560 refused to mind their own business and brought Christianity to the nations. Again, do I justify 0.99

00:53:15.180 and defend everything that has ever been done in the name of Christ? No. Evil things, unfortunately,

00:53:20.660 have been done in the name of Christ, but not reflective of Christ. They're not reflective

00:53:26.460 of the gospel. But true Christians who have brought the word of God and the gospel and order and

00:53:32.440 civilization to countries, yes and amen. Praise God for that. Praise God for that, that everywhere

00:53:40.660 Christian boots have landed, there has been an end to the most grotesque and murderous practices. 1.00

00:53:49.260 Yes, praise God for that. And so I pray that the Lord would continue to advance his kingdom and the

00:53:57.560 poorest and the most vulnerable countries. And eventually, I am sure that those countries will

00:54:02.300 be sending missionaries here in the United States as we have people who love chaos and love death and 1.00

00:54:08.560 love murder. Neo-pagans take over and take more and more power here. I pray that doesn't happen. I pray 0.94

00:54:14.760 for God's mercy. We have to be the city on the hill. We as Christians here, we have to be the lamps in

00:54:23.580 the darkness. And the darker things are, the brighter we shine. And so there is some hope in

00:54:29.640 that. There's some excitement in that, that we have an opportunity to be different in a way that our

00:54:34.100 parents and grandparents didn't when they were growing up, just because Christianity was more 0.68

00:54:39.240 mainstream. Then as the church gets pushed on the margins, that's really where we thrive. As scary

00:54:45.280 as it might be, that's really where God seems to do incredible, miraculous work. As we look

00:54:52.020 throughout history, we see, or not just throughout history, but specifically throughout scripture,

00:54:57.660 we see that God seems to purposely stack the odds against himself before coming through and showing

00:55:04.260 his power. He doesn't have to do that, but it seems that that is his pattern. We see when he parts the

00:55:11.560 Red Sea, when the Israelites take the promised land, we see even in the life of Jesus himself,

00:55:19.480 that the odds seem to be stacked against God from the earthly viewer's perspective. And then he comes

00:55:27.640 through doing what only God can do, bringing salvation to his people, and most importantly for

00:55:34.780 us, bringing salvation through a baby, through the Word made flesh, Jesus Christ. That miracle is what

00:55:42.900 spurs us on still today to tell people of the good news. So praise God for this couple. I pray that there

00:55:49.980 are many more like them. May we be inspired by their courage. I am so sad that this happened. They would have

00:55:55.660 been wonderful parents, and I'm sure would have done wonderful work for many years to come. But I pray that

00:56:03.700 God would continue to use their life, to use their testimony, and even to use their death to spread the

00:56:12.280 gospel to more people, both there and here. So just a reminder that God's eternal plan of redemption

00:56:23.560 is so obviously still going off without a hitch. One amazing example of the gospel getting out to new

00:56:33.600 and unexpected people and through new and unexpected people is the continued, I don't want to say

00:56:42.820 unraveling, I guess progression of the testimony of Russell Brand. We've talked about his journey and his

00:56:50.100 testimony several times before as he has converted to Christianity. He recently got baptized, and he is

00:56:56.880 sharing videos of what he is learning about Christianity. I just continue to be so encouraged by

00:57:02.100 that. He released a video just the other day marking his one month as a Christian, and we'll get into that

00:57:09.420 in just a second. Okay, here is sought to repentance to repent means that you have to continually change

00:57:28.420 and acknowledge that I am in a battle against myself that I need to surrender myself to an ever present

00:57:34.880 internal and accessible Jesus, that mercy is something that's given to me, been granted to me,

00:57:40.660 that I live with through love, not something that I can sort of win or achieve by doing good deeds.

00:57:46.640 I love the simplicity of the idea of God come to earth as a man to experience what it is to be human

00:57:54.100 and to sacrifice himself because that's the only sacrifice that could bring us home, that could give us

00:57:59.800 the opportunity for redemption. I love that. He has such a way of clear communication, and he clearly

00:58:08.340 communicated the gospel in that last thing that he said, that he loves the simplicity of the idea that

00:58:13.280 God has come to earth as a man. He came to earth as a man to experience what it is to be human and to

00:58:18.940 sacrifice himself. That's the only sacrifice that could give us the opportunity for redemption. I mean,

00:58:24.180 honestly, that is a better summation of the gospel than I get from a lot of Christian influencers

00:58:32.040 online, and even that you'll hear from a lot of pastors in the pulpit. And I'm not necessarily saying

00:58:38.920 that it's because they lack the courage or even the knowledge. I think sometimes all of us who have

00:58:43.800 been Christians for a significant portion of our lives, we get so filled with knowledge and so many

00:58:52.880 different theological ideas that it can be hard for us to condense and simplify what the gospel is. We

00:59:00.960 feel like we have to include all of these different parts to make sure that we paint a whole and full

00:59:06.960 picture, and there's nothing wrong with that motivation. But all of us really need to practice,

00:59:11.800 I think, being able to give like a 30-second gospel presentation or even a one-sentence gospel

00:59:19.560 presentation. And so I love what he does here. And, you know, I get pushed back every time I talk

00:59:25.600 about Russell Brand or every time I post about Russell Brand, every time I say,

00:59:29.600 this is awesome. I love that. I love that he said this. This is so encouraging to me.

00:59:34.740 I get people saying, you really lack discernment. Oh, you're being fooled by him. He's a new age mystic.

00:59:41.200 I had someone say, oh, he believes a false gospel, the false gospel of Roman Catholicism. He converted to

00:59:47.940 Catholicism. I can't believe you're praising this. Well, first off, he hasn't converted to 0.70

00:59:55.060 Catholicism. He has not said that. I saw a Christian Post article that said that he has

00:59:58.940 converted to Catholicism. He's never said that he converted to Catholicism. He got baptized by

01:00:04.460 submersion in the River Thames. That doesn't seem like a Catholic baptism. And he's never said that.

01:00:10.480 In fact, he has said, what denomination are you to his audience? And I want to hear more about this.

01:00:16.300 Now, I understand maybe why some people would think that because he has used a crucifix in some of

01:00:22.680 his videos. I think he's talked about praying the rosary. He's definitely used rosary beads in some of

01:00:29.160 his videos. What I take from that, as someone who has watched every video about this that he has put

01:00:36.140 out, who has actually read his thoughts and tried to listen to his thoughts on this, I think that he is

01:00:41.340 still figuring it out. Now, his wife, I think, is Catholic. And so I would not be surprised if he went 0.61

01:00:48.060 that direction. But there's no evidence right now that that is what he has embraced or that he is

01:00:53.940 converted to Catholicism. But even so, even so, can I not celebrate what he says that is true? When he shares

01:01:03.520 the true and simple gospel, can we not just extract that at the very least and say, that is awesome

01:01:10.740 that millions of people who follow him, who maybe have never heard the gospel before, are hearing it

01:01:15.440 from this unexpected but trusted source? Wow, amazing. And the Word of God does not return void.

01:01:22.000 So when he shares the truth, we can just pray and hope that God uses that truth

01:01:26.200 to win a heart to himself. We can say that and also acknowledge, okay, we don't know this person.

01:01:34.460 This is a celebrity that's espousing Christianity. We don't know how this is going to go. We don't 1.00

01:01:39.320 know if we agree with everything that he says. We've talked about on here his use of tarot cards

01:01:45.340 and how that's dangerous. And he asked his audience, like, what do you think about tarot cards?

01:01:51.900 Like, do you think that it's okay for a Christian to use them or to, like, seek signs and things like

01:01:56.780 that? We have rebutted that or refuted that or responded to that, rather, with biblical truth

01:02:02.720 about the evil of those things on this podcast. So we can acknowledge all that without just being

01:02:08.880 na-na-na-na. That's my imitation of some of y'all. Na-na-na-na. Like, it's okay to say,

01:02:15.120 I don't really know where he is. I'm not sure if we're, like, doctrinally aligned with everything.

01:02:19.760 But gosh, I hope and pray for him, and I hope and pray for how God's using him.

01:02:23.960 As I've said before, I do not regret being excited about what Kanye was saying and doing back when

01:02:28.740 he said, yep, I'm becoming a Christian, and here's my album, Jesus is King. I don't regret that.

01:02:33.780 I never said, and I don't know very many people who said this, if any people who said this,

01:02:38.520 yes, he is our pastor now. Yes, he is our hero. Yes, he can do no wrong. Yes, he's 100% right.

01:02:45.200 We should support him unconditionally, and this is 1000% genuine, and I know it for a fact.

01:02:51.360 I didn't say that. I don't know if a lot of people said that. I think it's fine to say,

01:02:56.200 this is a great song. These are great things that he's saying. I'm hopeful. I'm excited about this.

01:03:02.020 I mean, maybe God did use that album and use Kanye West's testimony at the time to bring people

01:03:09.320 to Christ, to bring people into reading the gospel, to bring people into a Bible-believing

01:03:13.320 church. Maybe God did use that time to bring genuine believers to himself, to gather part of

01:03:20.260 his flock, and maybe God is going to do that through Russell Brand. I don't know the outcome of

01:03:24.340 this. I don't know what the progression is going to be. I don't know what tomorrow holds with these

01:03:27.780 people, but I pray that God would keep him. I pray that God would sanctify him in truth. I pray that

01:03:33.260 he would continue to read and study his Bible. Russell Brand, get an ESP study Bible. I hope that you do,

01:03:39.100 and study it every day, and I don't have to say, but make sure you see this, or make sure you think

01:03:43.680 about things this way. I don't have to say that, because truth is like a lion, and I trust God's

01:03:48.800 Word, and I trust God and His Holy Spirit. So anyway, I love that. I love his presentation of

01:03:56.000 the simple gospel, and I think that we can be discerning and wise without being so negative

01:04:04.240 about celebrities who seem to be turning to Christ and turning in the right direction. So

01:04:11.860 I know all of you have been asking, can you please get Russell Brand on the show? I'm working on it.

01:04:18.540 We are working on it. I mean, I'm trying. I'm trying. But you know, someone like that,

01:04:22.820 he's got a huge platform, and he's busy, and I take no offense when it's difficult to get guests on

01:04:29.260 the show. There are guests that we've had on the show that we have had to ask and work on for

01:04:34.080 months and even years. And so I take no offense to that at all. We're working on it. And let's just

01:04:40.700 pray. Relay to family. Can you pray? Pray that it happens. Hopefully it will. I mean, I'm hopeful

01:04:48.100 for it. All right. That's all we got time for today. We didn't even get into everything I wanted

01:04:52.160 to talk about, but this is my first monologue episode in a while, so we just had a lot to cover.

01:04:56.520 But we'll cover a bunch more stuff on tomorrow's episode of Relatable. All right. I will see you

01:05:02.040 guys back here then.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - May 29, 2024

Ep 1010 ｜ Haiti Missionaries Murdered—For What？

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