Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1021 ｜ #SBCToo？ Another Accused Megachurch Pastor

00:00:00.760 Pastor Robert Morris, the founding pastor of Gateway Church, a huge MAGA church in the

00:00:06.260 Dallas, Texas area, has just announced that he is taking a sabbatical from preaching after

00:00:12.460 confessing to inappropriate sexual behavior with a quote-unquote young lady.

00:00:19.120 But the woman who accused him of sexually abusing her says that she was only 12 when

00:00:26.220 this happened.

00:00:26.800 We have all of the details, so much on this story, as well as a biblical response to it

00:00:34.640 all.

00:00:34.980 On today's episode of Relatable, it's brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers.

00:00:38.020 Go to GoodRanchers.com.

00:00:39.200 Use code Allie at checkout. 1.00

00:00:40.460 That's GoodRanchers.com, code Allie.

00:00:52.020 Hey, guys.

00:00:52.840 Welcome to Relatable.

00:00:54.220 Happy Tuesday.

00:00:54.800 Hope everyone has had a wonderful week so far.

00:00:58.380 You've got to listen to yesterday's episode or watch it if you haven't already.

00:01:02.260 Soren, the detransitioner that we talked to, it's just amazing.

00:01:05.780 She's so articulate and she had so many pieces of wisdom to share with us, especially parents.

00:01:13.860 She's so young and she was so young when she went through everything that she did.

00:01:18.240 And we have a lot to learn from her about the internet and different forms of media and content

00:01:25.700 that can really groom children into believing destructive lies about their bodies and their

00:01:33.420 identities.

00:01:34.400 And also, she just speaks to the importance of familial stability too, how crucial that

00:01:41.020 is to a healthy upbringing.

00:01:42.660 Share that with every mom and dad that you know.

00:01:46.700 And just pray for her too.

00:01:48.640 Pray for her heart.

00:01:49.720 Pray for her protection.

00:01:50.920 Pray for the lawsuit that it would be successful, that it would cause doctors to, at the very least,

00:01:57.520 think twice.

00:01:58.300 Before they cause irreparable damage to young people, to any person, but especially to young,

00:02:06.260 vulnerable, very often mentally unstable young people.

00:02:11.740 Oh my goodness.

00:02:12.980 And at best, they should be held liable.

00:02:17.240 They should be so afraid that they are going to lose money and lose their licenses, that they

00:02:21.960 won't prescribe cross-sex hormones, that they won't be performing double mastectomies.

00:02:28.300 And phalloplasties and all of that absolute brutal botchery that they currently perform

00:02:37.380 for lots and lots of money.

00:02:38.840 So her lawsuit is so important.

00:02:40.640 Keep your eyes on that.

00:02:41.940 Go watch yesterday's episode.

00:02:44.240 All right.

00:02:45.200 We've got so much to get into today.

00:02:47.540 I wish that we did not have to talk about some of the things that we are discussing today,

00:02:52.200 but we must because victims' voices matter.

00:02:56.760 They matter in particular when it comes to these egregious cases of sexual assault that

00:03:05.540 happens within the church, within the body of Christ, or at least among people who profess

00:03:11.480 to be among the body of Christ.

00:03:14.140 This time we're talking about Pastor Robert Morris.

00:03:18.040 Pastor Morris is the founding pastor of Gateway Church in South Lake, Texas.

00:03:23.120 Now, you'll remember just last week we talked about Tony Evans.

00:03:27.000 He is also a megachurch pastor in the Dallas area, and he did not give any specifics as to

00:03:35.060 the sin that was committed in his life and why he was stepping down and why he was going to have to

00:03:42.060 go through this process of repentance and restoration.

00:03:44.800 He didn't give any clarity on that.

00:03:49.260 He just said it was a sin.

00:03:51.580 It wasn't illegal, but it was not above reproach, and therefore I am going through this process with

00:03:58.900 my church and with my family.

00:04:01.220 We discussed that.

00:04:02.080 You can go watch that episode.

00:04:04.340 And now we are talking about another Dallas megachurch pastor, except this time we know

00:04:10.160 exactly what happened, or at least according to the accuser, we know exactly what happened.

00:04:17.120 And Pastor Robert Morris doesn't seem to be denying this.

00:04:21.680 So I'll just give you a summary, and then we'll back up and we'll talk about the very

00:04:25.820 disturbing details, and then we'll look at what the Bible has to say about all of this.

00:04:31.860 So Gateway Church is a huge church.

00:04:34.060 It's actually the biggest church in America because it has many different congregations,

00:04:42.240 not just its main congregation.

00:04:43.840 It's got satellite locations.

00:04:45.720 It's got various branches.

00:04:48.480 So it's estimated that the church, among all of its campuses, attracts an estimated 100,000

00:04:57.300 attendees every week, which is insane.

00:05:01.400 He has confessed to, these are his words, quote unquote, inappropriate sexual behavior with

00:05:08.760 a young lady more than 35 years ago while he was a young pastor.

00:05:15.200 Now you might be thinking, okay, this was in the 1980s.

00:05:18.840 This was 35 years ago.

00:05:21.640 Who cares?

00:05:22.520 Maybe that's your thought. 0.99

00:05:24.660 He was a young person then, and okay, he had some premarital sex.

00:05:29.720 Or maybe he went too far with his same age girlfriend at the time.

00:05:36.140 Why is this even a big deal now if he has been walking in purity since then?

00:05:40.880 But that is not what happened.

00:05:43.020 I want you to pay close attention to what he said, that he has confessed to inappropriate

00:05:48.620 sexual behavior with a young lady.

00:05:52.300 So that implies that this was some kind of consensual interaction with a woman.

00:05:59.100 But that's not what went on.

00:06:02.560 He also claimed that he stepped down in 1987 for a time of counseling.

00:06:07.280 He was forgiven by this person, and he was restored to his position in ministry.

00:06:14.300 However, here's what really went down, at least according to the accuser, and there are plenty

00:06:20.580 of corroborating evidence to this.

00:06:25.560 So the woman who accused him of sexual abuse, her name is Cindy Clemeshire.

00:06:30.340 She said that the abuse actually began when she was 12 years old.

00:06:35.800 That was the first time she claimed she was assaulted by Robert Morris when he was 21.

00:06:40.880 He was also married at the time.

00:06:42.880 He was a pastor, and he was a father of a little boy.

00:06:47.700 She says that this abuse lasted over four years.

00:06:51.840 And so she recently told her story to the Wartburg Watch last Friday, and now it is gaining ground.

00:06:58.840 This is not the first time she's talked about it.

00:07:00.740 She actually tried to sue him in 2005.

00:07:03.500 It didn't really make headlines.

00:07:05.300 It didn't really circulate like it is today.

00:07:07.340 Maybe there are a variety of factors why this is picking up so much steam now.

00:07:11.700 Some of it is just because of the cultural moment that we're in.

00:07:14.400 Some of it could be because the SBC just had its annual conference.

00:07:17.940 Some of it could be because Tony Evans had to step down at least temporarily as of last week.

00:07:24.680 It has to do with Me Too and the Church Too and the SBC Too movement.

00:07:31.120 There was a report not too long ago about some potential or some allegations of abuse within the SBC and some potential cover-ups there.

00:07:44.480 And so now that this accusation is coming to light yet again in further detail at this moment and in the time of social media,

00:07:53.760 which is very different than 2005, it is really gaining ground.

00:07:58.820 And so she gave some details to the Wartburg Watch that are just really, really troubling and do not match up with Robert Morris' story.

00:08:12.040 And what he said went down and really makes us question how we, within the SBC, conduct ministry and really just within the church in general

00:08:25.800 and what accountability and sin and repentance and restoration really look like.

00:08:30.660 So we're going to get into what she told the Wartburg Watch in just a second,

00:08:35.660 as well as reading his churches and his own full statement in response to that.

00:08:54.620 So here's Cindy's story.

00:08:56.680 According to her, she is now in her 50s, by the way.

00:08:59.020 She is a grandmother.

00:09:01.740 And I don't know everything that led up to her feeling the conviction to share her accusations with the Wartburg Watch.

00:09:11.580 So I know a lot of people have that question.

00:09:14.120 Why now, even if she did try to sue him in 2005, which, by the way, they offered her at the time.

00:09:25.600 They, well, she and her lawyer tried to get $50,000 to cover the counseling expenses in 2005.

00:09:34.360 But according to her, Morris' attorney, Pastor Morris' attorney,

00:09:38.540 implied that they believed it was her fault for being, quote, unquote, flirtatious.

00:09:43.600 And so they offered her $25,000 if she signed a non-disclosure agreement.

00:09:51.100 But she actually refused that.

00:09:52.780 So she didn't take the money because she didn't want to sign the NDA.

00:09:56.700 So I guess that case at the time really didn't come to anything.

00:10:00.820 So why now, almost 20 years later and then 35 years after the alleged abuse, is she coming for it?

00:10:08.200 I don't really know.

00:10:09.760 But let's get into what she says happened.

00:10:12.360 So the abuse, she says, began when Morris was already married, working as a traveling evangelist.

00:10:19.640 He was 21 years old.

00:10:21.100 He became a family friend and stayed with the family when he preached at their Oklahoma congregation.

00:10:28.260 So she lived in Oklahoma as a child.

00:10:31.420 The Morrises, so Pastor Morris, his wife, their child were invited into their home.

00:10:36.720 They often went on trips together.

00:10:38.840 She says around Christmas in 1982, the Morris family came to visit Cindy's family on Christmas Day.

00:10:44.580 Cindy sat in the backseat of the car with Robert, where he asked Cindy to come to his room that night.

00:10:50.740 So the room that he was staying in at her parents' house.

00:10:54.800 Cindy, she says that she was just an innocent 12-year-old girl.

00:11:00.000 She knew nothing about sexuality or anything, which is normal, should be normal for a preteen. 0.93

00:11:08.000 She described what she was wearing.

00:11:10.080 She says that she was wearing pink pajamas, a snap-up robe.

00:11:14.120 It makes me want to cry, just the innocence of it.

00:11:16.760 She thought nothing of visiting a family friend in their bedroom.

00:11:20.120 Again, you're just not thinking of that stuff.

00:11:22.780 And remember, this is the 1980s.

00:11:24.600 She was not a 12-year-old with TikTok who was watching, you know, scandalous TV shows and movies.

00:11:33.640 She didn't know when this was a pastor.

00:11:35.760 This was someone that, according to her, her parents had befriended and really trusted.

00:11:40.960 She said that Morris asked her to lie down on her back.

00:11:44.020 And this is disturbing, but I think it's important that her story is being told. 0.97

00:11:48.960 And then proceeded to touch her stomach, groped her breast, genitalia. 0.98

00:11:53.500 She said the sexual contact escalated to digital rape over the following five years. 0.98

00:12:01.640 Cindy claims also she claims that when she was a bit older that he would invite her into his car and try to have sex with her.

00:12:12.160 Um, Clemson Shire claims that Morris repeatedly abused her in Texas and in Oklahoma because the Clemson Shire family would stay at the Morris home in Texas. 1.00

00:12:24.040 Cindy's father donated money to Robert's ministry, not realizing at the time what was happening to his daughter.

00:12:32.120 Um, Morris often told his wife, so I guess when he would go off and he would abuse, allegedly, uh, Cindy, he told his wife,

00:12:40.560 oh, we're just having a counseling session.

00:12:43.000 We're just, I'm just counseling her.

00:12:45.820 Um, Morris was pastoring Shady Grove Church in Grand Prairie when Clemson Shire finally told her parents everything that had happened in 1987.

00:12:56.520 So this is five years after she says the initial abuse happened.

00:13:00.940 Shady Grove Church would eventually become what is Gateway Church now.

00:13:05.380 She told, um, her friend first what was happening and her friend said, you've got to tell your parents, you've got to do this.

00:13:14.380 And of course, I'm sure she was very afraid.

00:13:17.000 Um, when her father found out, she says, he told the lead pastor at Shady Grove Church that if Morris didn't get out of ministry, he would get the police involved.

00:13:26.440 Um, and of course he should have gone to the police immediately.

00:13:29.240 That is what should have happened.

00:13:30.780 He should have immediately gone to the police.

00:13:34.780 Okay.

00:13:35.020 This goes out of the realm of just church discipline.

00:13:39.000 The civil authorities must be involved.

00:13:41.780 Uh, not everything needs to be handled within the church.

00:13:46.120 God has given us the realm of civil authorities to keep evil in check.

00:13:50.860 And because this is a crime, not just something that Christians consider sin, it is, but it is also an egregious crime.

00:13:58.960 It needed to be handled by civil authorities immediately, but it wasn't.

00:14:03.840 It was kept within the church.

00:14:05.100 Now, during this time, Cindy said that she received a call from Debbie Morris, Robert's wife.

00:14:09.800 So they're in their mid twenties at this point who told Cindy that she forgave her.

00:14:16.020 This is again, according to Cindy, that she got the phone call and said, I forgive you from his wife.

00:14:22.160 Now, Cindy believes that Robert had told his wife that it was Cindy's fault.

00:14:26.320 Again, that was allegedly echoed by his attorney in 2005 when the attorney accused Cindy of being flirtatious.

00:14:32.800 Remember, Cindy was apparently according to her 12 years old when she was abused.

00:14:37.940 Uh, Morris, though, he returned to Shady Grove in 1989.

00:14:42.080 So he did leave the ministry in response to this whole thing.

00:14:46.300 After two years of counseling, Morris said he resumed preaching with Clemashire's father's blessing.

00:14:51.840 That's what he said.

00:14:53.300 We'll get to more of that in a second when he says that in his statement.

00:14:57.940 Um, but Clemashire says that's not exactly what went down.

00:15:04.880 Um, here is the full statement.

00:15:07.240 By the elders of Gateway Church, as well as Pastor Robert Morris.

00:15:13.360 So this was published.

00:15:15.220 I saw it in WFAA news.

00:15:19.080 Uh, this statement was given shortly after the story was published last Friday.

00:15:24.180 From the elders of Gateway Church, Pastor Robert has been open and forthright about a moral failure he had over 35 years ago.

00:15:31.520 When he was in his 20s and prior to him starting at Gateway Church.

00:15:36.120 And so you see all the stipulations there.

00:15:38.180 It's not a denial, but it's saying, well, it was so long ago and he was so young.

00:15:43.720 That's what they're trying to say.

00:15:45.000 He has shared publicly from the pulpit the proper biblical steps he took in this lengthy restoration process.

00:15:52.320 The two-year restoration process was closely administered by the elders at Shady Grove Church and included him stepping out of the ministry during that period while receiving professional counseling and freedom ministry counseling.

00:16:03.580 Since the resolution of the 35-year-old matter, there have been no other moral failures.

00:16:07.640 Pastor Robert has walked in purity and he has placed accountability measures in people in his life.

00:16:12.720 The matter has been properly disclosed to church leadership.

00:16:17.140 So, I mean, my problem with this is that they don't mention that he committed a crime, that he actually, according to this woman, molested a child.

00:16:29.940 Okay?

00:16:30.600 And they don't deny that.

00:16:32.740 That's the thing, is that all these details came out and they didn't say, whoa, whoa, whoa, this young woman, she was in her 20s.

00:16:39.460 This did not happen in 1985.

00:16:41.000 This happened in 1990, whatever.

00:16:43.220 They don't deny that.

00:16:44.920 So I think that's strange.

00:16:46.180 If these allegations are not true, you would think that they would vehemently deny him having some kind of sexual interaction.

00:16:55.740 That's probably not even the appropriate way to say it or that he advanced sexually upon a child.

00:17:01.160 I think that they would have specified, uh, hang on a second, that part is not true.

00:17:05.980 But they didn't specify that.

00:17:07.940 They said that it was a moral failure over 35 years ago in his 20s.

00:17:12.020 I'm just not sure what that change is.

00:17:15.040 He was a husband and father and pastor.

00:17:19.020 And he, according to her, molested a preteen girl.

00:17:23.080 Robert Morris states,

00:17:24.480 When I was in my early 20s, I was involved in, in a, okay, just listen to this, an inappropriate sexual behavior with a young lady in a home where I was staying.

00:17:37.380 It was kissing and petting and not intercourse, but it was wrong.

00:17:42.060 He does not deny that she was 12.

00:17:43.820 But he says with a young lady.

00:17:50.180 No, it wasn't sexual behavior with a young lady. 0.99

00:17:53.780 That implies if her report is correct, what he is implying here is wrong because he is implying that this was an interaction.

00:18:05.520 That this was something that was reciprocated.

00:18:09.000 It was happening with her and a young lady.

00:18:13.300 No, this was molestation of a child.

00:18:17.140 This was sexual assault of a child. 0.97

00:18:20.700 This was eventual, according to her, digital rape of a child.

00:18:25.220 He says this behavior happened on several occasions over the next few years.

00:18:31.740 It sounds to me like he is confirming what she said.

00:18:35.600 In March of 1987, the situation was brought to light.

00:18:39.500 So, because she told her parents.

00:18:43.100 And it was Shady Grove Church.

00:18:45.940 Oh, and it was confessed and repented of.

00:18:48.680 Well, he was caught.

00:18:50.580 Okay.

00:18:52.320 That's, I guess, one way to lead to confession.

00:18:55.220 And repented of.

00:18:57.140 Now, I'm not sure that that is true.

00:19:00.220 I'm not sure that that is exactly true.

00:19:03.080 Now, I'm saying he may have turned away from that and may have never done that again.

00:19:08.720 Maybe that would be extremely unique when it comes to these stories of pedophilic molestation.

00:19:17.040 Like, that would be extremely, extremely unique.

00:19:20.640 I hope that is true.

00:19:22.040 I hope that there are no other victims.

00:19:23.960 It may be true that he turned around after that from that sin and he never committed that sin again.

00:19:31.520 Please, God, I hope that is true.

00:19:34.080 However, real repentance in this case would have included justice under the law.

00:19:41.740 That would have been a part of this true repentance process because that would have been a part of walking in truth.

00:19:52.560 He says,

00:19:53.180 I submitted myself to the elders of Shady Grove Church and the young lady's father.

00:19:57.560 They asked me to step out of ministry and receive counseling and freedom ministry, which I did.

00:20:01.860 Since that time, I've walked in purity and accountability in this area.

00:20:06.840 Two years later, in March of 1989, I stepped back into ministry with the full blessing of the elders and her father.

00:20:14.480 In October of 1989, Debbie and I met with her and her family and I asked their forgiveness and they graciously forgave me.

00:20:23.760 This sin was dealt with correctly by confession and repentance, which I did in 1987 and 1989.

00:20:29.980 Another part that I don't agree with here is that it was dealt with correctly by confession and repentance.

00:20:34.820 Okay, again, I would say that's wrong just because he should have submitted to law enforcement.

00:20:41.380 And there should have been, of course, due process and all of that.

00:20:45.000 Absolutely.

00:20:46.500 But that should have happened.

00:20:48.420 Cindy deserved that. 1.00

00:20:49.800 God's justice, I think, demands that.

00:20:53.000 So that was incorrect.

00:20:54.340 But also the fact that he was restored to ministry after that.

00:20:57.600 I think we have this idea that just because you're forgiven by the person that you sinned against, that you get restored to every position that you were in before.

00:21:12.660 And that is not the biblical definition of restoration or repentance.

00:21:18.300 That's not something that you're entitled to.

00:21:20.020 In fact, that may have been a privilege, a gift that God had given you that you do not get to steward anymore, that you don't get to take anymore, because this is not a position that you have proven yourself able to hold in integrity.

00:21:38.420 Now, I think it depends on the sin.

00:21:41.440 I think it depends on the indiscretion that happened.

00:21:45.460 But in this case, when we're talking about the alleged sexual assault of a child, I don't think that restoration need include restoration to the position of pastor, where there are going to be lots of interactions with young, vulnerable children.

00:22:05.440 Cindy responded to the statement given by Gateway Church and Morris in comments to the Christian Post.

00:22:15.800 She said she was appalled that Morris referred to her as a young lady.

00:22:19.360 She says, I was 12 years old.

00:22:21.160 I was a little girl, a very innocent little girl.

00:22:23.480 And he was brought into our home.

00:22:24.840 He and his wife, Debbie, and their little boy, Josh, and trusted and preached at the church that my dad helped start and began grooming all of us to do this, which took me decades to wrap my brain around as an adult.

00:22:35.440 She says, it went on for many years.

00:22:38.880 He says there was no sexual intercourse, but he did touch every part of my body.

00:22:43.220 And this is graphic.

00:22:44.360 He says, she says, inserted his fingers into me, which I understand now is considered a form of rape by instrumentation.

00:22:50.820 I was an innocent 12-year-old little girl who knew nothing about sexual behavior.

00:22:56.580 And then she responds to the part where Pastor Morris said that he was given her father's blessing to enter back into ministry.

00:23:04.500 She says, my father never, ever gave his blessing on Robert returning to ministry, exclamation mark.

00:23:10.260 My father told him he's lucky he didn't kill him.

00:23:12.880 I am mortified that he is telling the world my dad gave his blessing.

00:23:15.660 Of course, we forgive because we are called to biblically forgive those who sin against us.

00:23:20.600 But that does not mean he is supposed to go on without repercussions, she said.

00:23:23.960 And that is true.

00:23:24.820 She told the Christian Post that she has been warning churches and pastors who would listen to her story about Morris because she doesn't believe she's the only one who suffered abuse.

00:23:36.460 She also argued that he shouldn't be serving in ministry and should step down.

00:23:41.320 She says, I don't think he ever should have been allowed to be in the ministry.

00:23:46.640 We would never allow someone to go teach in a school, work in a daycare, be a doctor if anybody had done these things.

00:23:53.440 And I have a very difficult time believing I'm the only one.

00:23:59.100 And I think if you just look at the pattern of this type of abuse, it is understandable for her to have those suspicions.

00:24:08.600 We do not know if that is true.

00:24:11.500 These are all accusations.

00:24:15.280 But again, I don't see denial.

00:24:18.160 I don't see denial from Pastor Morris or even the elders, which is just very disturbing.

00:24:25.700 So Morris actually talks about this period of time in his life in a book that he wrote in 2011 titled From Dream to Destiny.

00:24:48.220 He says he stepped down from the ministry when he was 25 due to issues of pride.

00:24:55.820 So this coincides with the time that he stepped down from ministry, which he now says was because he was caught in acts of serial molestation.

00:25:08.760 And he had to step away because the father said, I'm going to go to the police if you don't step down.

00:25:15.500 He is now admitting like that that is what happened or he is at least admitting that he stepped down because of these accusations and because of these sins and crimes.

00:25:26.800 But how he wrote it in 2011, he said, oh, I stepped down during this time because of pride.

00:25:32.740 And at least in this passage, he doesn't talk about everything that was happening allegedly with Cindy.

00:25:38.120 He says, by the time I was 25, I had become far too accustomed to hearing people tell me how gifted I was.

00:25:43.840 I began to listen to this praise.

00:25:45.260 Worse, I was beginning to expect it.

00:25:46.800 Deep down, I knew I was prideful, but I didn't know what to do about it.

00:25:50.060 So I began to pray about it, asking God for help.

00:25:51.960 I said, God, I know I have pride.

00:25:53.240 I know I have insecurity that makes me vulnerable to it.

00:25:56.060 I need to be free of this, but I don't know what to do.

00:26:00.460 He says that the Lord told him or convicted him to take a regular job.

00:26:05.540 And so he says he became like a security guard at a Motel 6 during this time to deal with his pride.

00:26:13.780 He says, but try as I might, I could not get rid of that thought of leaving the ministry and going to a regular job.

00:26:19.480 He got stronger and stronger until the Lord orchestrated the circumstances for me to step out of the ministry.

00:26:24.080 I finally did what the Lord suggested.

00:26:25.760 I stepped out of the ministry and started looking for a job.

00:26:29.540 We have a picture of that page so you can verify it for yourself.

00:26:37.600 And so he has been kind of open about leaving ministry during that time.

00:26:43.100 But at least as recently as 2011, he wasn't clear about why.

00:26:48.460 And that is a lie by omission, okay?

00:26:52.760 I mean, that's a lie, I think, by a lot of definitions to claim that you left the ministry for a reason that you didn't.

00:27:02.220 And in a book that you claim is a Christian book that you're also making money off of, I assume, that is a sin.

00:27:10.560 And you were doing this while you were a pastor of one of the biggest, not the biggest churches in Texas.

00:27:16.980 That alone is disqualifying.

00:27:19.860 So a little bit more about his background.

00:27:22.540 He started Gateway Church in 2000 in the DFW Metroplex.

00:27:26.720 Remember the church name, what it was earlier?

00:27:31.880 What was it?

00:27:32.460 Grand Prairie?

00:27:34.540 Shady Grove.

00:27:37.320 Right?

00:27:38.040 It was Shady.

00:27:38.740 Yeah.

00:27:39.220 Shady Grove Church became Gateway Church.

00:27:42.480 Okay, so in 2000, it was Gateway Church in the DFW area, and he also has his Honorary Doctrine of Divinity from East Texas Baptist University.

00:28:00.360 I'm not really sure what his theological background is other than that.

00:28:05.120 He has a television program that airs in over 190 countries, and his radio program, Worship in the Word with Pastor Robert,

00:28:10.700 airs in more than 2,800 radio markets across the country.

00:28:14.240 He serves as the chancellor of the King's University.

00:28:16.660 He's the best-selling author of numerous books.

00:28:19.360 He also served, and this is what the media is running with, of course, he served as a faith advisor to President Trump.

00:28:25.840 He had been an advisor for Mark Driscoll's new church, and so they're saying that this is, you know, it's all connected in some way.

00:28:36.720 NBC News says,

00:28:39.020 This woman who accused ex-Trump advisor of molesting her says he shouldn't lead a church. 0.76

00:28:44.400 MSNBC, MAGA pastor Robert Morris' sexual abuse scandal underscores the right to hypocrisy on LGBTQ people. 0.99

00:28:52.480 Okay, so take. 0.95

00:28:53.540 The Guardian, mega-church pastor and ex-Trump advisor admits child sexual abuse. 0.73

00:28:59.520 Salon, Texas pastor and ex-Trump advisor admits inappropriate sexual behavior with a child.

00:29:04.400 Daily Beast, Trump's spiritual advisor quasi-confesses to molesting a 12-year-old girl.

00:29:11.080 So, of course, that is what they are going to run with.

00:29:14.220 Interesting that they say the hypocrisy on LGBTQ people, because I actually think it's us.

00:29:20.680 We're the only willing people, we're the only people willing to call it out no matter the political affiliation.

00:29:27.160 I'm not speaking for everyone on the right.

00:29:28.940 Of course, I can't, but I don't care who it is.

00:29:31.460 I don't care if it's someone who is a part of my denomination.

00:29:33.920 I don't care if it's someone who is in my general political camp.

00:29:37.720 I don't care if it's someone who is on the left, an LGBTQ person, a public school teacher, like a Catholic priest. 0.66

00:29:46.940 I think that all of it matters.

00:29:49.300 It's actually the left that loves to run cover for people who are predators, who also happen to identify as LGBTQ.

00:29:57.320 They love to say that that absolutely doesn't happen, even though we see the pattern over and over again.

00:30:04.280 I think it's important to look for patterns no matter where they exist.

00:30:08.140 So, I don't want to hear about the hypocrisy.

00:30:10.760 If you only care about sexual assault, if you only care about sexual depravity when it comes to people that are associated with Donald Trump or who profess to be Christians because you think it's a political slam dunk, that says a lot about your heart, not mine. 0.97

00:30:26.560 You're not even willing to call out a person who happens to be gay and also a sexual abuser because you're so afraid of accidentally casting LGBTQ people in the wrong light. 0.99

00:30:40.860 So, really, it's your hypocrisy, I would say, not ours. 0.97

00:30:45.040 There is a few tweets out there that are offering commentary, lots of tweets out there.

00:30:53.960 Some of them, I think, are interesting.

00:30:55.840 Some of them, of course, are just, like, gunning for a way to criticize conservative Christians.

00:31:02.020 And you can criticize him, of course.

00:31:04.580 You can criticize conservative Christians all you want to, but no accusation or no criticism delegitimizes the word of God or calls into question the goodness of God or negates in any way the faithfulness of God or undermines the gospel of God.

00:31:30.540 All of these terrible things that people are saying about abusers may be true, even abusers within the church.

00:31:40.620 That doesn't change the fact that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

00:31:47.140 Hebrews 13.8.

00:31:48.180 I don't care if you like, quote-unquote, conservative Christians or evangelicals or a particular pastor.

00:31:54.800 Like, I want you to know Christ, which is, by the way, why these stories are so awful.

00:32:00.540 Why I think that they are actually worse in many ways than stories of abuse happening outside of the church, because the church is guarding, is caring, is the agent of the most precious and the only salvific truth message that exists.

00:32:20.300 And so when there is sexual immorality within the church, yes, it is hypocritical, but it also does hurt the church's witness.

00:32:31.300 And so I'm actually even angrier in many ways about something like this than I am when it happens outside the church.

00:32:40.080 Now, the victims, I have the equal compassion for the victims no matter what.

00:32:45.500 But as far as standards of behavior, Christians are to be, especially pastors, above reproach.

00:32:52.940 And so there is another level of just scrutiny and righteous anger that I think should accompany stories like this.

00:33:01.820 We have been entrusted with the most precious inheritance.

00:33:07.340 We have been entrusted with the best news.

00:33:11.500 And when we do not, by the grace of God, prove ourselves worthy of carrying that message because of deceit, because of cover-ups, because of corruption, because of not truly repented of sin in the sense that it was not dealt with in the right way, we really, really harm our mission.

00:33:37.240 Again, we can't inhibit God's will from being done, his gospel from going forth.

00:33:43.760 We cannot hinder his kingdom from being advanced.

00:33:48.120 But gosh, we can cause a lot of hurt and a lot of hesitation in people who are looking to the church to be doers of what we say.

00:34:00.560 Rick, Rick Pitcock, I don't know who that is.

00:34:04.040 He's a religion writer at Baptist News.

00:34:06.200 He said, when you explain a pastor's sexual assault of a minor by saying it happened in his 20s, which Gateway's statement did say, you're giving permission to all the 20-year-old men in your church to feel less bad about sexually assaulting women.

00:34:18.680 I mean, I think that's probably a fair thing to say. 0.93

00:34:22.160 Biblical and Reformed, an account on Acts says, it's disturbing how many professing Christians here act as pedo-apologists. 0.99

00:34:29.140 While forgiveness is possible, a grown man in ministry who molests a child is disqualified from serving as a leader.

00:34:34.880 And I agree.

00:34:36.820 I agree with that.

00:34:37.840 There is this post that's now going around on Acts.

00:34:40.720 It was a public post on Facebook.

00:34:44.180 And it was by a woman who is a pastor, so-called, of Weatherford Church in Texas.

00:34:51.360 And she posted this in defense of Robert Morris.

00:34:53.900 Now, I'm not saying this is representative of even close to most people in the SBC, of course.

00:35:00.380 And I'll talk about that more in a second.

00:35:02.660 But this is probably representative of at least a few people.

00:35:08.020 And this is disturbing.

00:35:09.080 So this is what this so-called pastor says.

00:35:11.980 She says, I want people to not judge Robert Morris because of a mistake he made over 30 years ago.

00:35:16.220 Some young girls at 12 years old are very beautiful and sexy. 0.97

00:35:19.980 Barf.

00:35:20.400 They don't understand how men are made.

00:35:22.960 And young men don't understand their actions are used by the devil to ruin a future God has for them.

00:35:27.780 Other godly men have been distracted by Satan.

00:35:29.620 That's why older men need to mentor young men.

00:35:31.400 Young men don't realize how Satan will try to destroy their futures and their families and ministries.

00:35:35.400 So it's the men who are the victims in this case, apparently.

00:35:42.220 He also gave a couple sermons over the years, has given a couple sermons over the years that are, I don't know, at least reason for pause.

00:35:51.700 He says, he explains in one sermon in 2014 that fulfilled lust turns into hate.

00:36:01.380 And what he is describing is if you give in to sexual temptation with a man as a woman before a marriage, he will grow to resent you and it will turn back on you.

00:36:13.940 He says, God meant for us to express love in a healthy way.

00:36:16.740 Of course, I agree with that because of the lust that was in my life.

00:36:19.780 He says, it has taken me years to get over the images and the things I saw that no person should ever see and the appetites that were created in me that God never intended to be created in me.

00:36:28.540 So I don't know exactly what he's talking about there.

00:36:30.500 I hope that he was not abused himself.

00:36:34.100 I'm guessing he's talking about some kind of pornography.

00:36:36.800 Pornography is such an awful scourge.

00:36:40.060 Um, but he goes on to say that, um, deception, uh, that there was deception involved when a young dating couple begins to have sex outside of marriage. 0.88

00:36:50.920 He says that this creates an appetite for deception in men.

00:36:53.680 He goes on to say, uh, also that this is why some men begin to flirt with women at the office or pursue extramarital relationships.

00:37:00.140 He's satisfying an appetite that you woman created in him. 1.00

00:37:04.000 He says, he says, I'm not saying it's right, but I'm trying to get you to understand how important it is not to create an appetite in the man before a marriage.

00:37:11.240 And I just want to say, women, you are not creating the appetite, um, in men.

00:37:17.100 Jesus said it would be better for you to pluck your eye out, uh, than to look lustfully after a woman. 1.00

00:37:23.800 Of course, women have agency. 1.00

00:37:25.480 We have responsibility for our actions, how we dress, how we present ourselves 100%, but it is never your fault for being, um, sexually assaulted.

00:37:35.780 One, I'm not saying that's what he's saying in this particular sermon, but also if you and a man are going past the point of sexual purity before you are married, that is not you creating an appetite in him.

00:37:48.820 You both are sinning, you both need to repent, but I don't want you to think that you are, uh, a creator of something and that, that justifies his infidelity in marriage.

00:38:00.600 Not at all.

00:38:01.600 That's not biblical at all.

00:38:04.220 Uh, in the same sermon, Morris describes how he picked women to prey upon when he was younger, supposedly as a teenager, he says, uh, before becoming a Christian.

00:38:13.760 This is Sop 5.

00:38:14.860 I looked for the girls that would be the most susceptible, and I learned how to spot this in girls. 0.82

00:38:24.580 Please hear me.

00:38:25.800 There's a reason I'm sharing this.

00:38:28.240 Uh, the very thing, ladies, that the world tells you to give a man before marriage so that you can keep him is the very thing that will cause you to lose him. 0.99

00:38:40.460 Uh, I looked for girls that did not have a good relationship with their father.

00:38:44.860 I learned to spot that.

00:38:46.800 I looked for girls that were insecure. 1.00

00:38:51.760 Ah, man.

00:38:53.940 Now, he, you know, he says that he's not talking about when he was an adult man abusing children.

00:38:59.820 He says this was before he became a Christian, but I just think it's interesting considering the allegations, um, that are out now.

00:39:09.800 Now, before we get into the biblical, um, aspect of this, like, what the Bible, I think, has to say about all of this and what this, in my opinion, should look like going forward for him, like, I just want to give my experience with the Southern Baptist Convention.

00:39:29.880 This is the largest denomination in the United States.

00:39:33.780 I have been a Southern Baptist my whole life.

00:39:36.800 I was baptized in a Southern Baptist church.

00:39:39.900 My grandparents were Southern Baptists.

00:39:42.100 We have been some form of Baptist, I think, for 300 years on my dad's side.

00:39:49.180 And I'm a Baptist because I believe in Baptist theology.

00:39:52.840 It's not some kind of conspiracy.

00:39:56.300 It's because I believe in Baptist theology.

00:39:59.440 Now, I'm more Reformed than a lot of my Baptist peers than, I would say, the vast, vast, vast majority of the SBC.

00:40:10.040 You guys know I lean more towards Calvinism than the vast majority of the SBC.

00:40:16.360 And I know many of you have your own problems with that.

00:40:18.880 But I believe in, I believe in Believer's Baptism.

00:40:25.180 I believe in salvation by grace through faith alone, which the SBC agrees with.

00:40:31.640 I agree with many things that the SBC holds as doctrines, most things.

00:40:39.380 I had a good experience in the Baptist church growing up.

00:40:44.460 I thank the Lord.

00:40:46.020 I thank the Lord.

00:40:46.940 And this is, I'm not saying this at all to negate anyone's experience or allegations.

00:40:52.140 I'm just saying that entities, institutions like this are multifaceted and large.

00:40:57.620 I thank the Lord that my experience in the SBC was a good one, that I never saw, never experienced anything close to any kind of inappropriate behavior or abuse.

00:41:10.040 And I just credit the Baptist churches that I grew up in with so much of my love for Scripture and understanding of God's Word.

00:41:21.940 I'm so thankful that week after week I got to see people publicly confess and publicly confess their faith in Christ and be baptized.

00:41:33.240 I am so grateful for that.

00:41:36.800 And the school that I went to, although it wasn't explicitly Baptist and denomination, I would say probably a large portion, if not most teachers and students at the school that I grew up in were Baptist.

00:41:51.640 That was the prevailing theology in my Bible classes.

00:41:55.120 And I also credit my school that I went to, kindergarten through 12th grade, for laying the foundation for me for theology, for understanding Scripture.

00:42:05.060 Something I think about all the time is that my Scripture recall is in the NIV.

00:42:11.700 When a verse comes to mind, I'm not the best at remembering off the top of my head the references, but I can say without it sounding like, I don't know, braggadocious in any way, that I do have good Scripture recall.

00:42:27.740 Like, I remember a lot of Scripture.

00:42:29.760 And that's not a credit to me.

00:42:31.340 It's just the upbringing that I so wonderfully had is that when I remember Bible verses, when they come to mind, it's in the NIV.

00:42:40.120 Now, I have not read the NIV consistently for, I don't know, 12 plus years, because when I went to college, I started reading the ESV.

00:42:51.320 And so I've been reading the ESV for my entire adult life, and yet the version of the verses I remember in the NIV.

00:43:01.680 And that means that the foundation that was laid for me in Scripture through that, like, new adventure Bible that was given to us in church or at school, that it has left an indelible mark.

00:43:17.820 So I say all of this as a Baptist, as a member of the SBC lifelong, as a baptized member of an SBC church, of someone who is thankful for the pastors and the teachers and the mentors and the Bible study leaders and the friends that I had, the parents that I had that gave me such a wonderful Christian upbringing and education.

00:43:42.320 So I take no, I have no ulterior motive in talking about these horrible accusations.

00:43:52.560 I am obviously, as hopefully you all know, not like the members of the media who just want to take down this denomination.

00:44:03.400 I'm not a feminist who is always looking for the stories to make men look bad.

00:44:09.120 You guys know this, but I believe in at least listening to victim stories.

00:44:17.040 Should we believe all women? 1.00

00:44:19.060 No, we shouldn't believe all women. 1.00

00:44:20.840 Should we believe all accusers?

00:44:23.220 No, we shouldn't believe all accusers.

00:44:25.380 But should we give them a fair hearing?

00:44:28.260 Yes, I believe we should.

00:44:31.200 I do believe that we should.

00:44:33.360 False accusations are very serious.

00:44:35.520 They're serious to God in the Old Testament, from which we draw our principles today for law and for right and wrong.

00:44:43.580 God said that if you bear false witness against your neighbor in court, that you should receive, that you will receive the punishment that was meant for the accused.

00:44:56.900 That's how much truth matters to God when it comes to justice.

00:45:01.080 Because God's due process in the Old Testament cared both about the accused and the accuser.

00:45:08.480 But he did care about the accused.

00:45:10.540 And I think often as a response to Me Too, as a response to feminism, we want to say, oh, no, we shouldn't believe any women, basically. 0.87

00:45:22.200 That we should question and, I mean, yes, we should question, but that we should nitpick and we should undermine and we should, you know, give them ulterior motives and we should always believe the accused.

00:45:35.540 And I don't think that's right, and I don't think that's right either.

00:45:38.320 That's not God's justice.

00:45:39.900 What do we always say?

00:45:40.660 God's justice, according to His Word, is truthful.

00:45:43.300 It is impartial.

00:45:44.680 It is direct.

00:45:45.760 And it is proportional, as we've been through many times with all of the Scripture references to back that up.

00:45:52.960 So it gives me no joy whatsoever to report on this story.

00:45:58.160 But it matters, and if you are a victim of anyone, especially within the church, and you feel pressure, maybe you have even been spiritually manipulated into silence, I do want you to speak the truth and to come into the light.

00:46:15.840 And I pray for God's grace and comfort to surround you.

00:46:18.560 I pray that there would be people for you to safely confide in.

00:46:24.600 And yes, again, just the process of fact-checking and all of that and corroboration and verification is so important.

00:46:31.580 But I do hope that you are received in grace and in humility.

00:46:37.560 And accountability is good.

00:46:39.980 It's good.

00:46:40.740 It's refining for God's people.

00:46:42.900 And my hope is that Robert Morris, through this shame and embarrassment, that he will be brought to true repentance, not just for what he did 35 years ago, which, again, I hope he truly repented of at the time and that there are no more victims, but that he would walk in truth.

00:47:03.100 I hope that he would also ask forgiveness for lying by commission, omission over the years, that he would ask forgiveness for not submitting to law enforcement at the time, which would have been the right thing.

00:47:14.240 The Holy Spirit would have been convicting him to do that, if all of these things are true.

00:47:19.080 I hope for restoration of him to the body, not to the place of pastor.

00:47:27.560 It's not everyone's role to be pastor.

00:47:31.860 Um, and just because he has been able to multiply this church does not mean that is a sign of God's holistic entire approval of him.

00:47:46.360 Okay.

00:47:47.100 There are a lot of people who have really large ministries who are preaching things.

00:47:55.000 I'm not talking about what he's preached.

00:47:56.380 I actually don't know what he's preached, but who are preaching things that are clearly not biblical.

00:48:00.520 And so we can't say the size of someone's church or the size of someone's ministry is a signal of God's approval of that person.

00:48:06.940 I mean, Benny Hinn, these, uh, a lot of these deliverance ministers, which are really exploiters of people's vulnerability.

00:48:14.280 They have large ministries too.

00:48:16.100 That doesn't mean God approves of them.

00:48:17.620 And so fruit is not necessarily just numerical.

00:48:22.840 It looks like self-control.

00:48:25.420 It looks like truth.

00:48:26.480 It looks like joy.

00:48:27.380 It looks like the fruit of the spirit as we read in Galatians.

00:48:29.820 I'm just going to read you several verses.

00:48:44.640 Um, that's how I'm going to end this, uh, on the word of God.

00:48:49.360 So Psalm 26, four, I do not sit with men of falsehood, nor do I consort with hypocrites.

00:48:55.900 I think that's the call for God's people.

00:48:58.880 Here's the qualifications for pastors, for overseers, for elders.

00:49:03.420 These are bishops of the church.

00:49:05.800 These are people who are entrusted with a very special task.

00:49:10.560 Not everyone is entrusted with the gift of stewarding, protecting, shepherding God's church.

00:49:17.300 1 Timothy 3, 1 through 7.

00:49:19.060 The saying is trustworthy.

00:49:20.180 If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task.

00:49:24.060 Therefore, an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, 0.90

00:49:29.200 respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not a drunkard, not violent, but gentle, not quarrelsome,

00:49:34.280 not a lover of money.

00:49:35.480 He must manage his own household well, with all dignity, keeping his children submissive.

00:49:40.160 For if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's

00:49:44.640 church?

00:49:45.120 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation

00:49:51.820 of the devil.

00:49:52.280 Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into

00:49:58.000 a snare of the devil.

00:50:01.520 Titus 1, 7 through 9.

00:50:02.980 For an overseer is God's steward.

00:50:05.720 What a privilege.

00:50:06.540 What a gift to be in that position.

00:50:08.740 What a hefty responsibility.

00:50:10.800 Must be above reproach.

00:50:13.840 Above reproach.

00:50:14.980 So, so righteous, so holy in his living, empowered by the Holy Spirit, that he cannot be rightly

00:50:23.420 or honestly criticized.

00:50:25.660 He must not be arrogant or quick-tempered or a drunkard or violent or greedy for gain,

00:50:29.800 but hospitable.

00:50:31.020 A lover of good.

00:50:32.000 Self-controlled.

00:50:32.700 Gosh, we say that over and over again.

00:50:34.320 Self-controlled.

00:50:35.420 He's able to control his passions, control his lusts, control his emotions.

00:50:40.420 Upright, holy, and disciplined, he must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so

00:50:48.020 that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who

00:50:55.080 contradict it.

00:50:56.480 Just as an aside, man, how many pastors are missing out on that responsibility?

00:51:01.400 Not only not giving sound instruction, sound doctrine, but failing and refusing to rebuke

00:51:07.520 those who contradict sound doctrine.

00:51:10.640 That's just an aside.

00:51:12.360 James 3.1.

00:51:13.120 Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will

00:51:17.500 be judged with greater strictness.

00:51:20.920 Wow.

00:51:22.060 Let me read that again.

00:51:23.340 Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will

00:51:27.860 be judged with greater strictness.

00:51:29.560 James 5.16.

00:51:31.340 Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another that you may be healed.

00:51:35.700 The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working.

00:51:41.580 What hope, what grace God gives us.

00:51:44.340 He understands that we will sin, that we will fall short, and we are to bring those sins

00:51:49.360 into the light so that we can be prayed for by our fellow brothers and sisters, that we

00:51:54.180 may be healed.

00:51:56.180 2 Corinthians 13.10-12.

00:51:58.860 Finally, brothers, rejoice.

00:52:00.420 Aim for restoration.

00:52:01.780 Comfort one another.

00:52:02.820 Agree with one another.

00:52:04.000 Live in peace.

00:52:05.360 And the God of love and peace will be with you.

00:52:08.140 So, yes, restoration, reconciliation, coming together, forgiveness.

00:52:13.180 I do think it's important when someone is truly repentant.

00:52:16.260 However, that does not mean, again, that someone needs to be restored to a position of responsibility

00:52:23.740 that I think he has proven, allegedly, that he simply doesn't have the character for.

00:52:33.200 Now, again, on justice, I think this is an important part of this.

00:52:38.440 Deuteronomy 16.19, you shall not pervert justice.

00:52:41.200 You shall not show partiality.

00:52:43.900 It goes on about not accepting bribes.

00:52:46.800 I don't know if that is pertinent, pertinent here, but God does hate a bribe.

00:52:55.920 He explains that very clearly throughout Scripture.

00:52:58.940 Exodus 20.16.

00:52:59.940 You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

00:53:02.720 That's part of the Ten Commandments.

00:53:04.940 That's how important truth is to God.

00:53:06.600 So, on both sides of justice, God cares about the accused and the accuser.

00:53:12.060 He cares about fairness.

00:53:13.180 He cares about impartiality.

00:53:14.860 We're not to believe all women. 1.00

00:53:16.360 We're not to believe all men. 0.95

00:53:17.900 In truth, are we to judge our neighbor?

00:53:21.280 Psalm 37.1-3 and also 14-15.

00:53:24.560 Fret not yourself because of evildoers.

00:53:26.880 Be not envious of wrongdoers, for they will soon fade like the grass and wither like the

00:53:31.920 green herb.

00:53:33.300 This is for those of you who have been abused, those of you who are victims.

00:53:40.240 I want you to take comfort in this, but that really this is comfort for all of us who see

00:53:44.860 evil, have experienced evil and injustice.

00:53:47.560 Commit your way to the Lord.

00:53:48.780 Trust in Him, and He will act.

00:53:50.100 He will bring forth your righteousness as the light and your justice as the noon day.

00:53:54.560 The wicked draw the sword and bend their bows, and bring down the poor and needy to slay

00:53:58.820 those whose way is upright.

00:54:01.140 But their sword shall enter their own heart, and their bows shall be broken.

00:54:07.360 More comfort for those of you who are victims.

00:54:09.700 Jeremiah 20.12.

00:54:11.040 O Lord of hosts who test the righteous, who sees the heart and the mind, let me see your

00:54:15.400 vengeance upon them, for to you I have committed my cause.

00:54:19.380 Even if it seems like no one sees you, even if it seems like justice is not going to come

00:54:24.520 in this life, rest assured that God will bring justice.

00:54:29.400 Psalm 147.2-4, He heals the brokenhearted and binds up their wounds.

00:54:34.680 He determines the number of the stars.

00:54:36.380 He gives to all of them their names.

00:54:38.900 The God who determines the numbers of the stars, who gives every star their name.

00:54:43.020 Well, we don't even, we don't know all the names of the stars.

00:54:46.220 God has named every single star that we cannot count.

00:54:50.080 That same God created you, loves you, knows you, sees you, hears you.

00:54:57.120 I think of Genesis 16.13-14, or really the whole chapter, when Hagar fled for fear of Sarai,

00:55:04.400 and she was pregnant with Abram's, with Abram's son.

00:55:10.080 And after she fled, she feels destitute.

00:55:13.020 She's despairing.

00:55:14.340 She's in the middle of nowhere, she says.

00:55:16.960 So she called the name of the Lord who spoke to her.

00:55:20.120 You are a God of seeing, for she said, truly, here I have seen him who looks after me.

00:55:26.760 Therefore, the well was called Be'er Lahai Roy.

00:55:30.120 It lies between Kadesh and Bered. 0.88

00:55:31.980 She was pregnant with Ishmael.

00:55:34.560 Ishmael means God hears.

00:55:37.900 16.13, when she says, you are a God of seeing, that can also be, you are a God who sees me.

00:55:45.980 Genesis 16.14, Be'er Lahai Roy means the well of the living one who sees me.

00:55:53.360 God saw this woman in her destitution who had been mistreated, promises his faithfulness to her.

00:56:01.160 Remember, you serve a God who became flesh, dwelt among us, and who paid special attention to women in a way that other people at the time did not.

00:56:14.540 That was seen as indecent and improper against the rules.

00:56:20.140 Remember how he treated the woman at the well.

00:56:24.560 He told her all the intimate details of her life that she thought that she had had hidden, and also shared the gospel with her.

00:56:32.820 Remember how he spoke with tenderness and directness to the woman who was caught in adultery.

00:56:38.680 Remember how he paid attention to the woman who grasped onto his robe to heal herself of perpetual hemorrhaging.

00:56:49.900 He didn't have to pay attention to her.

00:56:52.240 It says that he felt his power go out when she grabbed his robe.

00:56:56.140 He could have kept going.

00:56:57.240 He didn't.

00:56:57.720 He turned around and looked at her.

00:57:01.180 Remember how he treated, again, with tenderness and truth,

00:57:04.340 the woman of the night who washed his feet with her tears.

00:57:08.380 We serve a tender Jesus who sees you, who pays attention to you.

00:57:15.560 And that is one reason why I say Christians don't need feminism. 1.00

00:57:19.820 This feminist, secularist, pro-abortion, gender dysphoric in many ways ideology because we serve a Jesus who brought this message of radical equality to both men and women.

00:57:35.200 That we are all made in the image of God.

00:57:37.320 We're not the same.

00:57:38.420 Our bodies aren't the same.

00:57:39.620 Our roles, our capacities aren't the same.

00:57:42.280 One shouldn't be believed more than the other.

00:57:44.520 One shouldn't be given more credence than the other.

00:57:47.580 We are equal in worth, equal in dignity with different roles, different responsibilities, different strengths, different weaknesses, different positions in marriage, different positions in the church, but equal in worth.

00:57:58.920 And the radical gospel, which doubled down on the knowledge that we are all made equally in the image of God that says you are also equally dead and sin apart from Christ and can be made alive by grace through faith in him.

00:58:11.620 It is the gospel that preaches this radical message of compassion and equality, even calling husbands to lay down their lives for their wives that was radical in the culture at the time.

00:58:26.920 And so the Bible, God's word is sufficient for life and godliness.

00:58:33.680 And it calls us to be better than this that we see in the story.

00:58:39.580 It calls us to a higher standard.

00:58:41.940 It calls us to holiness.

00:58:43.880 It calls us to justice.

00:58:46.940 It calls us to truth.

00:58:48.720 I don't know the veracity of all of these claims.

00:58:51.800 I think we can kind of piece things together.

00:58:54.580 I pray for truth and justice to prevail in this in all situations.

00:58:58.900 And I do pray not only for Cindy.

00:59:01.520 Gosh, I pray for her and her family so much.

00:59:04.820 But I also pray for Robert Morris and his family.

00:59:09.020 And I pray that the grace of God would convict him fully, that everything would come to light, that he would truly walk in freedom,

00:59:17.060 and that he would spend the rest of his days walking in that truth and truly, faithfully, fully following the Lord in humility and transparency.

00:59:29.080 That's what I hope for him.

00:59:30.400 This is not coming from a place of hate at all or a place of pride.

00:59:34.620 Gosh, we all need that grace to work out our faith in fear and trembling.

00:59:40.980 But, yes, I do hope for justice and accountability here and in so many cases.

00:59:59.480 All right.

01:00:01.320 We had a lot of other things to talk about, but this ended up taking a lot longer.

01:00:06.360 And then I realized we were going to talk also about what happened at the SBC convention last week.

01:00:11.220 We talked about what was going to happen, I think, last Wednesday or Tuesday.

01:00:17.060 I don't quite remember.

01:00:18.260 I think it was last Tuesday.

01:00:19.620 But we weren't able to then give a recap.

01:00:24.100 Maybe we'll be able to do that later this week.

01:00:26.620 They did vote on the whole female pastor thing and whether a church could still be in friendly cooperation

01:00:33.140 and have a female pastor.

01:00:36.240 The law amendment that said you're not going to be in friendly cooperation if you have a female pastor did not pass.

01:00:42.960 61% did vote for it, but it needed two-thirds in order to be a constitutional amendment.

01:00:48.460 There's lots of disagreement on it.

01:00:49.780 Some people just—it's not that they disagreed with it.

01:00:52.040 They just said the Baptist faith and message is already so clear on that.

01:00:55.540 We don't need to add a constitutional amendment.

01:00:58.240 So that was part of why it failed.

01:01:00.160 And we talked about the different arguments there.

01:01:02.380 Also, there was a resolution against the unethical practices that are inherent in the IVF industry, and that did pass.

01:01:11.800 There were lots and lots of different articles and news clips that we could go through in response to everything that happened at the Southern Baptist Convention last week.

01:01:21.960 Here's what we can take comfort in, that God is going to keep His church.

01:01:25.600 He is going to keep true Christians, every true Christian that exists in every different denomination.

01:01:33.220 God's kingdom does not rise and fall on the SBC.

01:01:36.480 It doesn't rise and fall on the PCA, on the Methodist church.

01:01:39.060 It doesn't rise and fall on any particular denomination, on any particular generation, on any particular nation.

01:01:45.920 God's kingdom stands because He stands, and He cannot fail, and He will not fail.

01:01:52.340 And one day, He is coming back and will rule in perfect peace, in perfect justice, in complete victory, once and for all.

01:01:59.800 There will be no more temptation.

01:02:01.240 There will be no more sexual sin.

01:02:02.660 There will be no more predation.

01:02:03.900 There will be no more lies, no more deceit, no more sickness, no more sorrow, no more disappointment, no more failure, no more worry or concern.

01:02:10.560 There will be none of that.

01:02:11.520 There will only be joy and peace forevermore.

01:02:16.020 That is assured.

01:02:17.500 So when you're tempted to feel discouraged and disappointed in all of this, I think that's normal.

01:02:22.260 I do too.

01:02:24.060 Your faith does not rest on pastors.

01:02:27.980 It doesn't rest on leaders.

01:02:29.340 It doesn't rest on theologians or teachers or influencers or podcasters.

01:02:32.560 It rests on Jesus, who is the anchor for your soul, the author and the finisher of your faith, who will never, ever fail you.

01:02:44.060 All right.

01:02:44.480 We'll be back tomorrow with more.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - June 18, 2024

Ep 1021 ｜ #SBCToo？ Another Accused Megachurch Pastor

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