Pastor Robert Morris, the founding pastor of Gateway Church in South Lake Texas, has taken a sabbatical from preaching after confessing to inappropriate sexual behavior with a young woman. We have all of the details, so much on this story, as well as a biblical response to it all.
00:07:05.300It didn't really circulate like it is today.
00:07:07.340Maybe there are a variety of factors why this is picking up so much steam now.
00:07:11.700Some of it is just because of the cultural moment that we're in.
00:07:14.400Some of it could be because the SBC just had its annual conference.
00:07:17.940Some of it could be because Tony Evans had to step down at least temporarily as of last week.
00:07:24.680It has to do with Me Too and the Church Too and the SBC Too movement.
00:07:31.120There was a report not too long ago about some potential or some allegations of abuse within the SBC and some potential cover-ups there.
00:07:44.480And so now that this accusation is coming to light yet again in further detail at this moment and in the time of social media,
00:07:53.760which is very different than 2005, it is really gaining ground.
00:07:58.820And so she gave some details to the Wartburg Watch that are just really, really troubling and do not match up with Robert Morris' story.
00:08:12.040And what he said went down and really makes us question how we, within the SBC, conduct ministry and really just within the church in general
00:08:25.800and what accountability and sin and repentance and restoration really look like.
00:08:30.660So we're going to get into what she told the Wartburg Watch in just a second,
00:08:35.660as well as reading his churches and his own full statement in response to that.
00:11:24.600She was not a 12-year-old with TikTok who was watching, you know, scandalous TV shows and movies.
00:11:33.640She didn't know when this was a pastor.
00:11:35.760This was someone that, according to her, her parents had befriended and really trusted.
00:11:40.960She said that Morris asked her to lie down on her back.
00:11:44.020And this is disturbing, but I think it's important that her story is being told.
00:11:48.960And then proceeded to touch her stomach, groped her breast, genitalia.
00:11:53.500She said the sexual contact escalated to digital rape over the following five years.
00:12:01.640Cindy claims also she claims that when she was a bit older that he would invite her into his car and try to have sex with her.
00:12:12.160Um, Clemson Shire claims that Morris repeatedly abused her in Texas and in Oklahoma because the Clemson Shire family would stay at the Morris home in Texas.
00:12:24.040Cindy's father donated money to Robert's ministry, not realizing at the time what was happening to his daughter.
00:12:32.120Um, Morris often told his wife, so I guess when he would go off and he would abuse, allegedly, uh, Cindy, he told his wife,
00:12:40.560oh, we're just having a counseling session.
00:12:45.820Um, Morris was pastoring Shady Grove Church in Grand Prairie when Clemson Shire finally told her parents everything that had happened in 1987.
00:12:56.520So this is five years after she says the initial abuse happened.
00:13:00.940Shady Grove Church would eventually become what is Gateway Church now.
00:13:05.380She told, um, her friend first what was happening and her friend said, you've got to tell your parents, you've got to do this.
00:13:14.380And of course, I'm sure she was very afraid.
00:13:17.000Um, when her father found out, she says, he told the lead pastor at Shady Grove Church that if Morris didn't get out of ministry, he would get the police involved.
00:13:26.440Um, and of course he should have gone to the police immediately.
00:15:45.000He has shared publicly from the pulpit the proper biblical steps he took in this lengthy restoration process.
00:15:52.320The two-year restoration process was closely administered by the elders at Shady Grove Church and included him stepping out of the ministry during that period while receiving professional counseling and freedom ministry counseling.
00:16:03.580Since the resolution of the 35-year-old matter, there have been no other moral failures.
00:16:07.640Pastor Robert has walked in purity and he has placed accountability measures in people in his life.
00:16:12.720The matter has been properly disclosed to church leadership.
00:16:17.140So, I mean, my problem with this is that they don't mention that he committed a crime, that he actually, according to this woman, molested a child.
00:17:24.480When I was in my early 20s, I was involved in, in a, okay, just listen to this, an inappropriate sexual behavior with a young lady in a home where I was staying.
00:17:37.380It was kissing and petting and not intercourse, but it was wrong.
00:20:54.340But also the fact that he was restored to ministry after that.
00:20:57.600I think we have this idea that just because you're forgiven by the person that you sinned against, that you get restored to every position that you were in before.
00:21:12.660And that is not the biblical definition of restoration or repentance.
00:21:18.300That's not something that you're entitled to.
00:21:20.020In fact, that may have been a privilege, a gift that God had given you that you do not get to steward anymore, that you don't get to take anymore, because this is not a position that you have proven yourself able to hold in integrity.
00:21:41.440I think it depends on the indiscretion that happened.
00:21:45.460But in this case, when we're talking about the alleged sexual assault of a child, I don't think that restoration need include restoration to the position of pastor, where there are going to be lots of interactions with young, vulnerable children.
00:22:05.440Cindy responded to the statement given by Gateway Church and Morris in comments to the Christian Post.
00:22:15.800She said she was appalled that Morris referred to her as a young lady.
00:22:24.840He and his wife, Debbie, and their little boy, Josh, and trusted and preached at the church that my dad helped start and began grooming all of us to do this, which took me decades to wrap my brain around as an adult.
00:23:24.820She told the Christian Post that she has been warning churches and pastors who would listen to her story about Morris because she doesn't believe she's the only one who suffered abuse.
00:23:36.460She also argued that he shouldn't be serving in ministry and should step down.
00:23:41.320She says, I don't think he ever should have been allowed to be in the ministry.
00:23:46.640We would never allow someone to go teach in a school, work in a daycare, be a doctor if anybody had done these things.
00:23:53.440And I have a very difficult time believing I'm the only one.
00:23:59.100And I think if you just look at the pattern of this type of abuse, it is understandable for her to have those suspicions.
00:24:18.160I don't see denial from Pastor Morris or even the elders, which is just very disturbing.
00:24:25.700So Morris actually talks about this period of time in his life in a book that he wrote in 2011 titled From Dream to Destiny.
00:24:48.220He says he stepped down from the ministry when he was 25 due to issues of pride.
00:24:55.820So this coincides with the time that he stepped down from ministry, which he now says was because he was caught in acts of serial molestation.
00:25:08.760And he had to step away because the father said, I'm going to go to the police if you don't step down.
00:25:15.500He is now admitting like that that is what happened or he is at least admitting that he stepped down because of these accusations and because of these sins and crimes.
00:25:26.800But how he wrote it in 2011, he said, oh, I stepped down during this time because of pride.
00:25:32.740And at least in this passage, he doesn't talk about everything that was happening allegedly with Cindy.
00:25:38.120He says, by the time I was 25, I had become far too accustomed to hearing people tell me how gifted I was.
00:27:39.220Shady Grove Church became Gateway Church.
00:27:42.480Okay, so in 2000, it was Gateway Church in the DFW area, and he also has his Honorary Doctrine of Divinity from East Texas Baptist University.
00:28:00.360I'm not really sure what his theological background is other than that.
00:28:05.120He has a television program that airs in over 190 countries, and his radio program, Worship in the Word with Pastor Robert,
00:28:10.700airs in more than 2,800 radio markets across the country.
00:28:14.240He serves as the chancellor of the King's University.
00:28:16.660He's the best-selling author of numerous books.
00:28:19.360He also served, and this is what the media is running with, of course, he served as a faith advisor to President Trump.
00:28:25.840He had been an advisor for Mark Driscoll's new church, and so they're saying that this is, you know, it's all connected in some way.
00:29:49.300It's actually the left that loves to run cover for people who are predators, who also happen to identify as LGBTQ.
00:29:57.320They love to say that that absolutely doesn't happen, even though we see the pattern over and over again.
00:30:04.280I think it's important to look for patterns no matter where they exist.
00:30:08.140So, I don't want to hear about the hypocrisy.
00:30:10.760If you only care about sexual assault, if you only care about sexual depravity when it comes to people that are associated with Donald Trump or who profess to be Christians because you think it's a political slam dunk, that says a lot about your heart, not mine.
00:30:26.560You're not even willing to call out a person who happens to be gay and also a sexual abuser because you're so afraid of accidentally casting LGBTQ people in the wrong light.
00:30:40.860So, really, it's your hypocrisy, I would say, not ours.
00:30:45.040There is a few tweets out there that are offering commentary, lots of tweets out there.
00:30:53.960Some of them, I think, are interesting.
00:30:55.840Some of them, of course, are just, like, gunning for a way to criticize conservative Christians.
00:31:04.580You can criticize conservative Christians all you want to, but no accusation or no criticism delegitimizes the word of God or calls into question the goodness of God or negates in any way the faithfulness of God or undermines the gospel of God.
00:31:30.540All of these terrible things that people are saying about abusers may be true, even abusers within the church.
00:31:40.620That doesn't change the fact that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
00:31:48.180I don't care if you like, quote-unquote, conservative Christians or evangelicals or a particular pastor.
00:31:54.800Like, I want you to know Christ, which is, by the way, why these stories are so awful.
00:32:00.540Why I think that they are actually worse in many ways than stories of abuse happening outside of the church, because the church is guarding, is caring, is the agent of the most precious and the only salvific truth message that exists.
00:32:20.300And so when there is sexual immorality within the church, yes, it is hypocritical, but it also does hurt the church's witness.
00:32:31.300And so I'm actually even angrier in many ways about something like this than I am when it happens outside the church.
00:32:40.080Now, the victims, I have the equal compassion for the victims no matter what.
00:32:45.500But as far as standards of behavior, Christians are to be, especially pastors, above reproach.
00:32:52.940And so there is another level of just scrutiny and righteous anger that I think should accompany stories like this.
00:33:01.820We have been entrusted with the most precious inheritance.
00:33:07.340We have been entrusted with the best news.
00:33:11.500And when we do not, by the grace of God, prove ourselves worthy of carrying that message because of deceit, because of cover-ups, because of corruption, because of not truly repented of sin in the sense that it was not dealt with in the right way, we really, really harm our mission.
00:33:37.240Again, we can't inhibit God's will from being done, his gospel from going forth.
00:33:43.760We cannot hinder his kingdom from being advanced.
00:33:48.120But gosh, we can cause a lot of hurt and a lot of hesitation in people who are looking to the church to be doers of what we say.
00:34:00.560Rick, Rick Pitcock, I don't know who that is.
00:34:04.040He's a religion writer at Baptist News.
00:34:06.200He said, when you explain a pastor's sexual assault of a minor by saying it happened in his 20s, which Gateway's statement did say, you're giving permission to all the 20-year-old men in your church to feel less bad about sexually assaulting women.
00:34:18.680I mean, I think that's probably a fair thing to say.
00:34:22.160Biblical and Reformed, an account on Acts says, it's disturbing how many professing Christians here act as pedo-apologists.
00:34:29.140While forgiveness is possible, a grown man in ministry who molests a child is disqualified from serving as a leader.
00:35:20.400They don't understand how men are made.
00:35:22.960And young men don't understand their actions are used by the devil to ruin a future God has for them.
00:35:27.780Other godly men have been distracted by Satan.
00:35:29.620That's why older men need to mentor young men.
00:35:31.400Young men don't realize how Satan will try to destroy their futures and their families and ministries.
00:35:35.400So it's the men who are the victims in this case, apparently.
00:35:42.220He also gave a couple sermons over the years, has given a couple sermons over the years that are, I don't know, at least reason for pause.
00:35:51.700He says, he explains in one sermon in 2014 that fulfilled lust turns into hate.
00:36:01.380And what he is describing is if you give in to sexual temptation with a man as a woman before a marriage, he will grow to resent you and it will turn back on you.
00:36:13.940He says, God meant for us to express love in a healthy way.
00:36:16.740Of course, I agree with that because of the lust that was in my life.
00:36:19.780He says, it has taken me years to get over the images and the things I saw that no person should ever see and the appetites that were created in me that God never intended to be created in me.
00:36:28.540So I don't know exactly what he's talking about there.
00:36:30.500I hope that he was not abused himself.
00:36:34.100I'm guessing he's talking about some kind of pornography.
00:36:40.060Um, but he goes on to say that, um, deception, uh, that there was deception involved when a young dating couple begins to have sex outside of marriage.
00:36:50.920He says that this creates an appetite for deception in men.
00:36:53.680He goes on to say, uh, also that this is why some men begin to flirt with women at the office or pursue extramarital relationships.
00:37:00.140He's satisfying an appetite that you woman created in him.
00:37:04.000He says, he says, I'm not saying it's right, but I'm trying to get you to understand how important it is not to create an appetite in the man before a marriage.
00:37:11.240And I just want to say, women, you are not creating the appetite, um, in men.
00:37:17.100Jesus said it would be better for you to pluck your eye out, uh, than to look lustfully after a woman.
00:37:25.480We have responsibility for our actions, how we dress, how we present ourselves 100%, but it is never your fault for being, um, sexually assaulted.
00:37:35.780One, I'm not saying that's what he's saying in this particular sermon, but also if you and a man are going past the point of sexual purity before you are married, that is not you creating an appetite in him.
00:37:48.820You both are sinning, you both need to repent, but I don't want you to think that you are, uh, a creator of something and that, that justifies his infidelity in marriage.
00:38:04.220Uh, in the same sermon, Morris describes how he picked women to prey upon when he was younger, supposedly as a teenager, he says, uh, before becoming a Christian.
00:38:28.240Uh, the very thing, ladies, that the world tells you to give a man before marriage so that you can keep him is the very thing that will cause you to lose him.
00:38:40.460Uh, I looked for girls that did not have a good relationship with their father.
00:38:53.940Now, he, you know, he says that he's not talking about when he was an adult man abusing children.
00:38:59.820He says this was before he became a Christian, but I just think it's interesting considering the allegations, um, that are out now.
00:39:09.800Now, before we get into the biblical, um, aspect of this, like, what the Bible, I think, has to say about all of this and what this, in my opinion, should look like going forward for him, like, I just want to give my experience with the Southern Baptist Convention.
00:39:29.880This is the largest denomination in the United States.
00:39:33.780I have been a Southern Baptist my whole life.
00:39:36.800I was baptized in a Southern Baptist church.
00:39:39.900My grandparents were Southern Baptists.
00:39:42.100We have been some form of Baptist, I think, for 300 years on my dad's side.
00:39:49.180And I'm a Baptist because I believe in Baptist theology.
00:40:46.940And this is, I'm not saying this at all to negate anyone's experience or allegations.
00:40:52.140I'm just saying that entities, institutions like this are multifaceted and large.
00:40:57.620I thank the Lord that my experience in the SBC was a good one, that I never saw, never experienced anything close to any kind of inappropriate behavior or abuse.
00:41:10.040And I just credit the Baptist churches that I grew up in with so much of my love for Scripture and understanding of God's Word.
00:41:21.940I'm so thankful that week after week I got to see people publicly confess and publicly confess their faith in Christ and be baptized.
00:41:36.800And the school that I went to, although it wasn't explicitly Baptist and denomination, I would say probably a large portion, if not most teachers and students at the school that I grew up in were Baptist.
00:41:51.640That was the prevailing theology in my Bible classes.
00:41:55.120And I also credit my school that I went to, kindergarten through 12th grade, for laying the foundation for me for theology, for understanding Scripture.
00:42:05.060Something I think about all the time is that my Scripture recall is in the NIV.
00:42:11.700When a verse comes to mind, I'm not the best at remembering off the top of my head the references, but I can say without it sounding like, I don't know, braggadocious in any way, that I do have good Scripture recall.
00:42:31.340It's just the upbringing that I so wonderfully had is that when I remember Bible verses, when they come to mind, it's in the NIV.
00:42:40.120Now, I have not read the NIV consistently for, I don't know, 12 plus years, because when I went to college, I started reading the ESV.
00:42:51.320And so I've been reading the ESV for my entire adult life, and yet the version of the verses I remember in the NIV.
00:43:01.680And that means that the foundation that was laid for me in Scripture through that, like, new adventure Bible that was given to us in church or at school, that it has left an indelible mark.
00:43:17.820So I say all of this as a Baptist, as a member of the SBC lifelong, as a baptized member of an SBC church, of someone who is thankful for the pastors and the teachers and the mentors and the Bible study leaders and the friends that I had, the parents that I had that gave me such a wonderful Christian upbringing and education.
00:43:42.320So I take no, I have no ulterior motive in talking about these horrible accusations.
00:43:52.560I am obviously, as hopefully you all know, not like the members of the media who just want to take down this denomination.
00:44:03.400I'm not a feminist who is always looking for the stories to make men look bad.
00:44:09.120You guys know this, but I believe in at least listening to victim stories.
00:44:35.520They're serious to God in the Old Testament, from which we draw our principles today for law and for right and wrong.
00:44:43.580God said that if you bear false witness against your neighbor in court, that you should receive, that you will receive the punishment that was meant for the accused.
00:44:56.900That's how much truth matters to God when it comes to justice.
00:45:01.080Because God's due process in the Old Testament cared both about the accused and the accuser.
00:45:10.540And I think often as a response to Me Too, as a response to feminism, we want to say, oh, no, we shouldn't believe any women, basically.
00:45:22.200That we should question and, I mean, yes, we should question, but that we should nitpick and we should undermine and we should, you know, give them ulterior motives and we should always believe the accused.
00:45:35.540And I don't think that's right, and I don't think that's right either.
00:45:45.760And it is proportional, as we've been through many times with all of the Scripture references to back that up.
00:45:52.960So it gives me no joy whatsoever to report on this story.
00:45:58.160But it matters, and if you are a victim of anyone, especially within the church, and you feel pressure, maybe you have even been spiritually manipulated into silence, I do want you to speak the truth and to come into the light.
00:46:15.840And I pray for God's grace and comfort to surround you.
00:46:18.560I pray that there would be people for you to safely confide in.
00:46:24.600And yes, again, just the process of fact-checking and all of that and corroboration and verification is so important.
00:46:31.580But I do hope that you are received in grace and in humility.
00:46:42.900And my hope is that Robert Morris, through this shame and embarrassment, that he will be brought to true repentance, not just for what he did 35 years ago, which, again, I hope he truly repented of at the time and that there are no more victims, but that he would walk in truth.
00:47:03.100I hope that he would also ask forgiveness for lying by commission, omission over the years, that he would ask forgiveness for not submitting to law enforcement at the time, which would have been the right thing.
00:47:14.240The Holy Spirit would have been convicting him to do that, if all of these things are true.
00:47:19.080I hope for restoration of him to the body, not to the place of pastor.
00:47:27.560It's not everyone's role to be pastor.
00:47:31.860Um, and just because he has been able to multiply this church does not mean that is a sign of God's holistic entire approval of him.
00:55:37.90016.13, when she says, you are a God of seeing, that can also be, you are a God who sees me.
00:55:45.980Genesis 16.14, Be'er Lahai Roy means the well of the living one who sees me.
00:55:53.360God saw this woman in her destitution who had been mistreated, promises his faithfulness to her.
00:56:01.160Remember, you serve a God who became flesh, dwelt among us, and who paid special attention to women in a way that other people at the time did not.
00:56:14.540That was seen as indecent and improper against the rules.
00:56:20.140Remember how he treated the woman at the well.
00:56:24.560He told her all the intimate details of her life that she thought that she had had hidden, and also shared the gospel with her.
00:56:32.820Remember how he spoke with tenderness and directness to the woman who was caught in adultery.
00:56:38.680Remember how he paid attention to the woman who grasped onto his robe to heal herself of perpetual hemorrhaging.
00:56:49.900He didn't have to pay attention to her.
00:56:52.240It says that he felt his power go out when she grabbed his robe.
00:57:01.180Remember how he treated, again, with tenderness and truth,
00:57:04.340the woman of the night who washed his feet with her tears.
00:57:08.380We serve a tender Jesus who sees you, who pays attention to you.
00:57:15.560And that is one reason why I say Christians don't need feminism.
00:57:19.820This feminist, secularist, pro-abortion, gender dysphoric in many ways ideology because we serve a Jesus who brought this message of radical equality to both men and women.
00:57:35.200That we are all made in the image of God.
00:57:39.620Our roles, our capacities aren't the same.
00:57:42.280One shouldn't be believed more than the other.
00:57:44.520One shouldn't be given more credence than the other.
00:57:47.580We are equal in worth, equal in dignity with different roles, different responsibilities, different strengths, different weaknesses, different positions in marriage, different positions in the church, but equal in worth.
00:57:58.920And the radical gospel, which doubled down on the knowledge that we are all made equally in the image of God that says you are also equally dead and sin apart from Christ and can be made alive by grace through faith in him.
00:58:11.620It is the gospel that preaches this radical message of compassion and equality, even calling husbands to lay down their lives for their wives that was radical in the culture at the time.
00:58:26.920And so the Bible, God's word is sufficient for life and godliness.
00:58:33.680And it calls us to be better than this that we see in the story.
00:59:01.520Gosh, I pray for her and her family so much.
00:59:04.820But I also pray for Robert Morris and his family.
00:59:09.020And I pray that the grace of God would convict him fully, that everything would come to light, that he would truly walk in freedom,
00:59:17.060and that he would spend the rest of his days walking in that truth and truly, faithfully, fully following the Lord in humility and transparency.
01:01:00.160And we talked about the different arguments there.
01:01:02.380Also, there was a resolution against the unethical practices that are inherent in the IVF industry, and that did pass.
01:01:11.800There were lots and lots of different articles and news clips that we could go through in response to everything that happened at the Southern Baptist Convention last week.
01:01:21.960Here's what we can take comfort in, that God is going to keep His church.
01:01:25.600He is going to keep true Christians, every true Christian that exists in every different denomination.
01:01:33.220God's kingdom does not rise and fall on the SBC.
01:01:36.480It doesn't rise and fall on the PCA, on the Methodist church.
01:01:39.060It doesn't rise and fall on any particular denomination, on any particular generation, on any particular nation.
01:01:45.920God's kingdom stands because He stands, and He cannot fail, and He will not fail.
01:01:52.340And one day, He is coming back and will rule in perfect peace, in perfect justice, in complete victory, once and for all.
01:02:03.900There will be no more lies, no more deceit, no more sickness, no more sorrow, no more disappointment, no more failure, no more worry or concern.