Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1031 ｜ Psychiatry Is Killing People ｜ Guest： Dr. Roger McFillin

00:00:00.000 What is the truth about postpartum depression and anxiety?

00:00:05.660 Can empathy actually be very dangerous and harmful?

00:00:09.980 What counts as true trauma?

00:00:12.800 Are we medicalizing normal emotions?

00:00:16.100 Is there any positive effect of so-called antidepressants?

00:00:20.600 Oh my goodness, we are getting into all of this

00:00:23.200 and so much more on today's episode of Relatable.

00:00:26.820 We've got Dr. Roger McFillan back with us.

00:00:29.140 He is a clinical psychologist.

00:00:31.140 He has talked with us before about the diagnosis of things like ADHD and ADD,

00:00:36.860 how that can be harmful, the harm of SSRIs.

00:00:40.320 Today, we are having such a profound and even spiritual discussion

00:00:44.180 about what real mental health is,

00:00:47.340 what real so-called mental health solutions are.

00:00:51.360 You are going to get so much out of this conversation.

00:00:54.820 I know it's a longer episode,

00:00:56.320 but that's because we had so much ground to cover.

00:00:59.140 You're going to love this.

00:01:00.760 This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers.

00:01:03.100 Go to GoodRanchers.com.

00:01:04.260 Use code Allie at checkout. 1.00

00:01:05.600 That's GoodRanchers.com.

00:01:06.860 Code Allie. 1.00

00:01:17.140 Dr. McFillan, thanks so much for coming back, for joining us again.

00:01:21.740 So grateful to be here.

00:01:23.020 I was reflecting on the last couple of times I was on this show.

00:01:26.580 Yeah.

00:01:26.780 And it's kind of presented as if my statements are controversial.

00:01:30.960 And I know in this hot take world, you know, it's presented that way to get views.

00:01:37.220 But, you know, I was reflecting back on the things that I said.

00:01:40.480 And there's actually nothing controversial about what I've been talking about.

00:01:44.600 I'll just do a quick review.

00:01:46.300 That there's no brain chemical imbalances that can be targeted with a drug, right?

00:01:50.900 That's scientific consensus for the most part.

00:01:53.700 Or the fact that antidepressant drugs have never really been proven to be antidepressant.

00:01:59.500 They have significant adverse effects.

00:02:01.640 They, in a lot of ways, have been just more promotional branding than, you know, actual clinical help.

00:02:09.980 And, you know, the aspects about ADHD and these diagnoses being, you know, not discrete medical illnesses is nothing that's controversial.

00:02:17.240 Even if you look at the DSM, they are not explanatory.

00:02:21.580 They're descriptive in nature.

00:02:23.080 So there's nothing that I have said that actually puts me at risk.

00:02:27.260 And if you notice the last couple of times that I've been on this podcast, you can tell that I'm thinking a lot, right?

00:02:33.580 It's how fear gets conditioned into a professional where you're afraid to say things that can put your job at risk.

00:02:43.180 And I was doing a lot of reflection over that, especially the past year.

00:02:48.040 Because, you know, I've got kids in college.

00:02:50.220 My entire life has been dedicated to being a clinical psychologist.

00:02:56.940 And you speak to, or I have spoken to what I've known about the scientific literature, but I don't always have, I haven't always spoken to what was in my heart, for example.

00:03:08.420 And the truth of the matter is, is I believe I haven't done enough.

00:03:13.120 And I kind of feel shameful about it, to be honest with you, that I have this brand called Radically Genuine and I have this podcast.

00:03:21.400 But I don't think I've spoken out about the real harms of my industry.

00:03:27.160 Not just the psychiatric industry, but the therapy industry, the mental health industry in general, and how I think it's been an experiment, a social experiment that has gone on, certainly for the past 30 or 40 years, that has created indelible harm.

00:03:44.060 And if we continue to kind of view our human experience under the umbrella of that industry, you're going to see what we've actually been witnessing, which is declining mental health, worsening mental health.

00:04:00.140 And in fact, we have generations right now who are actually in this adversarial relationship with their own emotional states.

00:04:06.980 It's almost like the expectation is that we're supposed to feel good all the time.

00:04:12.040 And if you don't, there's something wrong or defective.

00:04:16.840 And I have seen what that has done.

00:04:19.780 I think it's a conditioning.

00:04:21.200 I think it's a brainwashing.

00:04:22.820 I've seen the harm that it's done in my clinical practice.

00:04:25.800 And it's worsening.

00:04:27.260 You know, it's worsening over the past five years dramatically.

00:04:31.260 And so I step back and am I speaking enough about that?

00:04:34.980 I mean, I'm talking about psychiatric drugs and the harms of psychiatric drugs.

00:04:38.280 But I think those are pretty much well accepted.

00:04:42.320 I mean, I'm not going to be put on the stand for malpractice talking about the fact that there's no identifiable chemical imbalance or that antidepressants cause harm.

00:04:53.740 But am I talking about what the therapy industry is doing?

00:04:57.300 What we've collectively created in our consciousness about what actually is mental health and well-being?

00:05:04.040 And that's where I don't think I've spoken out enough.

00:05:07.100 And I have to be willing to give up what I know.

00:05:12.000 The safety and the security of my job.

00:05:15.240 Like, I thought I knew what faith was.

00:05:17.360 I didn't know what faith was.

00:05:19.640 You know, faith for me was this, there's a belief in God.

00:05:23.680 I'm a spiritual being going through this human experience.

00:05:26.300 And I pray to God, often in my own times of fear, often when I don't know the direction.

00:05:32.760 But have I really surrendered?

00:05:34.360 Like, have I really surrendered to what the truth is inside of me?

00:05:39.120 Have I really been able to quiet my mind and be with Christ and speak the truth with my clients, on my podcast, with my family, with my friends, in the academic world that I have been trained?

00:05:51.640 And I don't think I have, because when you go to school in the United States, in the secular world that we live in, when you go to graduate school, everyone worships at the altar of scientism.

00:06:05.040 You know, you talk about your faith.

00:06:06.720 You talk about your belief in God.

00:06:11.820 And that this time on this earth is so time-limited, and its purpose is so much greater than what we may even know.

00:06:18.980 It's going to go by like this.

00:06:21.000 And that our mental health is very much connected to what our purpose is and connection to that.

00:06:28.360 And you bring up those ideas in academia, and religion and faith are almost discussed as if they're fairy tales.

00:06:36.340 And those fairy tales are of less evolved people who have a hard time dealing with death, coping with death.

00:06:46.740 And so I'd like to have a greater conversation today on what mental health is, where we are in our culture, where my industry is harmful, and where we can go.

00:06:56.920 Yeah.

00:06:57.800 I want to go back to what you said at the beginning about your statements being controversial.

00:07:02.980 And I think, to me, it comes down to a matter of defining what it means to be controversial.

00:07:09.900 So when I've said in the past that your statements are controversial, it's not that they're wrong or that they are scientifically ambiguous, but that they cause anger.

00:07:20.360 They cause defensiveness, they cause controversy within the comments, maybe not even in the scientific community, but certainly when you say things like there's no such thing as a chemical imbalance in SSRIs, they're not getting to the root cause, they're not actually healing.

00:07:37.620 Same thing with ADHD, that it's kind of like an umbrella term, which I think you're right, that the science supports what you have said.

00:07:45.640 What I mean by controversial is not me trying to, you know, throw out clickbait or trying to get views.

00:07:52.440 But I know, because I'm sure you do too, but I'm receiving the DMs and the comments from people who have never heard this before, who have been told they think from doctors, maybe it's just from pharmaceutical companies, that yes, it's a chemical imbalance.

00:08:08.460 Yes, it's a serotonin problem.

00:08:10.620 Yes, ADHD is one easy diagnosis that we can just fix with medication.

00:08:15.280 So to them, your statements are extremely controversial because they've never heard that before and they feel very defensive about the choices they've made for themselves or their children.

00:08:25.260 So I just wanted to clarify that, that in the past, I haven't tried to cast the conversations, you know, for a clickbait or just for views, but acknowledging that there are people out there who are going to feel that this is extremely controversial for you to make those statements.

00:08:40.740 Yeah, it's interesting.

00:08:41.900 I have a cousin who's a Navy SEAL.

00:08:44.040 He was one of the Navy SEALs who refused to get the COVID vaccine.

00:08:49.380 And he was at risk of, you know, losing his position and being dishonorably discharged.

00:08:54.980 He was represented by Robert Kennedy.

00:08:57.020 And at the time he was considering that next step in his career and still is, and is considering becoming a psychologist.

00:09:06.300 And he sent me this text one day where it said, how do you reconcile with modern psychology's unwillingness to even recognize the soul?

00:09:14.720 And I gave some junk answer really about how we can change behavior and that can serve people, but it wasn't truth.

00:09:26.540 And can I tell an amazing story?

00:09:29.280 Yeah, please.

00:09:30.240 I mean, this is, I'm probably going to get a little bit emotional about this, but this was two years ago.

00:09:36.840 So I was on your show.

00:09:38.480 This had already happened and I didn't speak to this.

00:09:41.160 So I got a case into my practice, you know, confirmed by hospital records, police reports.

00:09:49.340 It was a woman who was sex trafficked, brutally tortured. 1.00

00:09:54.920 And she was about an hour and a half away from me.

00:09:58.620 So she was coming up to see me, to work with me.

00:10:01.760 And I work with post-traumatic stress clients, sexual assault victims.

00:10:07.080 You know, I've worked with servicemen who've, you know, been in combat.

00:10:12.580 So well-versed in the therapies for post-traumatic stress disorder.

00:10:18.560 And so I was expecting a woman who was traumatized.

00:10:27.000 I was expecting a woman to be in a state of high distress and difficult to be able to trust me, especially as a male. 1.00

00:10:38.300 So that idea in my mind of who she was before she even stepped into my practice was pretty solidified.

00:10:44.240 And when she came in and I met with her, there was this overwhelming sense for me that I was in the presence of God.

00:10:55.000 And my rational mind cannot even describe to you what that feeling was like.

00:11:03.600 And it was a woman of such tremendous strength and wisdom that I was shocked, right?

00:11:11.460 I still went very slowly with her, getting to know her, building trust, building rapport, under the understanding that, you know, she still does have significant trust issues.

00:11:24.900 Although that wasn't presented in front of me.

00:11:26.980 So I just spent a lot of time getting her story.

00:11:29.660 And I was really looking forward to the sessions because I think I was benefiting it more than she was.

00:11:36.920 And I had to recognize this one day.

00:11:39.220 And then we got to the details of the rape, the sexual assault, the torture. 0.85

00:11:45.720 I mean, she was made to sleep in a cage and treated like an animal. 1.00

00:11:49.400 She was brutally raped. 0.99

00:11:51.080 Wow. 1.00

00:11:51.440 Ugh.

00:11:52.200 And, you know, I asked her, I asked her how she got through that, which isn't a, which is certainly not a question that's out of the ordinary, but her answer was out of the ordinary.

00:12:14.620 I mean, she looked at me dead in the eyes in a way that you could feel it.

00:12:20.800 And she said, you know, God came to me while I was being tortured and while I was being raped and he turned everything around into love.

00:12:30.840 I also had visions of who they were when they were children and what happened to them, which generated compassion.

00:12:42.500 It protected me against any harm.

00:12:46.280 She eventually escaped, told that to police.

00:12:50.820 She was sent to the hospital, which she should have been.

00:12:53.040 She was examined since she was examined psychiatrically.

00:12:55.600 And then she was placed on a series of antipsychotic drugs because she told the story about, you know, what happened with God visiting her.

00:13:07.300 And, you know, she speaks to the horror of what happens when you're on multiple mood-altering and mind-altering drugs.

00:13:14.780 And, you know, she was able to get off those drugs.

00:13:16.940 But it was so important for me also to reflect on how our current culture would view such an event, how it's viewed from the lens of illness.

00:13:26.880 And we have lost our ability to talk about collective suffering, to talk about the spiritual phenomenon, at least in the academic world, in the world that I exist in, to speak about how phenomenon such as that really can be divinely inspired and created.

00:13:50.320 And when you're open, that God does visit us in that way.

00:13:54.100 And that's not the first situation that I've had since then.

00:13:57.480 You know, I've found that people are afraid to talk about those experiences.

00:14:02.800 Even I'm afraid to talk about them because of how we're mass conditioned by fear.

00:14:08.380 I honestly believe that me hearing that was an important message to actually share on this podcast today.

00:14:17.100 So I ended up, I told you before we sat down, I've been having these nonstop dreams about what needs to be shared on this podcast.

00:14:26.780 I get up very early in the morning and pray and get into a meditative state.

00:14:31.480 And it's consistently has come to me.

00:14:34.940 I have to share that story.

00:14:36.940 So I reached out to her because we're under strict confidentiality laws and I could never share such a story in any way that it could violate her confidentiality.

00:14:47.820 So I ended up contacting her a couple of weeks ago to ask for permission to tell that story.

00:14:54.360 And, you know, she was absolutely thrilled because when I stopped working with her, this is what she shared with me.

00:15:00.360 I said, I said, you don't need therapy.

00:15:02.800 In fact, I'm benefiting from this experience.

00:15:05.400 And she said that she knows and that she felt like she had to share the story with me for it to be a greater message.

00:15:14.680 And that was two years ago.

00:15:15.960 And I didn't necessarily understand fully what that meant.

00:15:19.640 And so I think it has something to do with having to share it today.

00:15:25.000 And these spiritual phenomenons, these experiences are very, very common.

00:15:29.860 Like I've experienced them, not to the extent that this young lady has, I mean, I've lived a blessed life in comparison to her, but learning to be able to quiet our minds, to be fully connected to the spirit has transformed the work that I do in the last few years.

00:15:48.560 Because I've had a challenging relationship with my own faith because I'm a Catholic and I was treating victims of clergy abuse.

00:15:58.160 And so that was a real challenging period.

00:16:01.340 And so these experiences that I've had with some of my clients and some of the messages have been, you know, very eye-opening and changed the way that I should talk about mental health.

00:16:11.460 And I think we should all talk about mental health.

00:16:13.200 Dr. John MacArthur, that's always been his criticism of psychology is that psychologists and psychology in general disregards the soul.

00:16:36.220 And he's always argued, and I'm not saying that you would necessarily agree with this, but he's always argued that it is really only Christians who are equipped to deal with issues of mental health because only Christians understand the soul, the soul's creator, and what the soul fully and finally needs.

00:16:57.820 And whether you agree with that line of reasoning or not, I think that we can agree that disregarding the soul means that you can't fully address someone's issues or problems or confusion or whatever, the chaos that's going on inside their mind.

00:17:13.320 Because you're only thinking about it in context of the brain, in the context of chemicals and hormones and things like that.

00:17:22.800 To me, that makes a lot of sense for why so many psychologists do just kind of put a Band-Aid on it and say, well, this is a chemical problem.

00:17:30.840 If you don't believe that there's a spirit, if you don't believe that there's a soul, then we really are just like, you know, just neurons firing off, you know?

00:17:41.500 So I don't know.

00:17:42.360 I don't know what you think about that, but it seems to me like what you're saying and what he's saying are kind of similar.

00:17:48.640 I agree with him.

00:17:49.860 I watched your interview with him, and then I investigated a little bit more of his work.

00:17:54.540 And he actually refers to a number of the psychologists and psychiatrists that I've read as well, and it talks about the illegitimate authority of the psychiatric medical establishment.

00:18:07.900 The idea that consciousness is somehow emitted from the brain is a categorical error in identification for one.

00:18:17.440 Explain that.

00:18:18.140 So Matt Walsh actually got into an interesting discussion on this with some well-known psychiatrists, including some that I've had on my podcast.

00:18:27.600 And his statement was that depression is a state of being that we have to connect with the soul.

00:18:35.340 It's a state of despair, right?

00:18:37.440 That is part of the human condition.

00:18:40.800 It is not a medical disease.

00:18:42.960 That's a categorical error, right?

00:18:44.760 It's not something that there's something broken within your brain.

00:18:48.140 It is a state of, you know, often of emptiness and spiritual disconnection, of loneliness, of fear, that we all have the propensity to enter in.

00:19:01.160 And statistically speaking, we will likely go through those periods in our life.

00:19:06.840 Here is what I disagree with my profession.

00:19:09.600 I believe it's transformative.

00:19:11.600 I think it's divinely created and inspired for our growth.

00:19:16.040 That we are...

00:19:18.140 We are designed with this rich tapestry of human emotions.

00:19:24.100 Despair, loss, and loneliness are the balance to the love and to the joy that we experience.

00:19:32.060 They cannot exist without each other.

00:19:35.060 We have to kind of go through those dark periods to walk close to the light.

00:19:38.840 And in that growth is where we become not only closer to God, but we get closer to each other.

00:19:45.980 There's a connection that's developed through the pain.

00:19:49.740 There's an empathy that's created that we serve other people.

00:19:53.020 And that's the problem with my industry.

00:19:55.180 My industry has become this TikTok, Instagram, hot take about what is mental health.

00:20:03.940 And it's the absence of suffering.

00:20:06.140 It's the absence of negative emotions.

00:20:07.800 You're designed to be happy.

00:20:09.620 And everything should be focusing on you.

00:20:12.140 You are serving your own pleasures.

00:20:14.500 It's very hedonistic.

00:20:16.540 And I have never met any person in my life who was happy, focused on just themselves.

00:20:25.600 Getting down here was very difficult.

00:20:27.460 My plane was delayed five hours last night.

00:20:31.740 I got in at like one in the morning.

00:20:32.940 There was a point where I didn't think I was going to make it.

00:20:37.400 They almost canceled the flight.

00:20:38.840 They had to get another flight to come in here.

00:20:40.980 And I just noticed what my mind started doing, right?

00:20:44.100 Oh my God, I'm going to miss this.

00:20:46.460 And if I do get there, I'm going to be so tired.

00:20:49.480 I'm not going to be sharp.

00:20:50.420 I'm going to get these bags under my eyes.

00:20:52.520 I'm going to look horrible.

00:20:53.440 I'm going to look tired.

00:20:54.340 And I just noticed that's what my mind was doing.

00:20:57.100 I ended up walking by a bookstore and came across a book on gratitude.

00:21:02.940 I grabbed it and I spent the time just reading on gratitude.

00:21:09.200 You know, it was quoting gospel.

00:21:11.280 It was talking about ways to retrain the mind.

00:21:15.320 And I often share with a lot of people and on podcasts too, that we are creators of our

00:21:19.980 own reality.

00:21:20.800 That doesn't mean that there's no objective truth.

00:21:23.880 So we were all last night facing the same thing.

00:21:27.180 You know, I was at the airport for what, six or seven hours.

00:21:30.520 And I was observing the people around me who the objective truth was the plane was delayed

00:21:36.840 and we weren't going to get to our destination.

00:21:39.140 We might have to stay overnight.

00:21:41.400 And I saw the level of distress, the level of despair that came up.

00:21:46.220 And that's the mind, right?

00:21:48.260 The mind says, this is unbearable.

00:21:50.620 I can't stand this.

00:21:51.760 I can't take this anymore.

00:21:52.940 And I'm here in this gratitude and I completely surrendered.

00:21:59.200 God doesn't want me to speak about this today.

00:22:01.040 I'm not going to speak about it.

00:22:02.240 If I'm not going to get there, I'm not going to get there.

00:22:05.060 And there was no stress about it.

00:22:07.860 If I have to be tired, I have to be tired, right?

00:22:10.580 It changes your entire emotional experience, right?

00:22:13.680 And this is where psychologists or therapists should be, right?

00:22:17.580 That we are creators of our reality.

00:22:19.640 Sometimes what we create can serve us, serve our purpose, and other times it can harm us.

00:22:25.280 But if you're in an industry, if you're going to talk to someone who wants to focus all on you,

00:22:29.480 and it's going to be all about you, guess what?

00:22:31.700 You're going to be miserable because that's not how we experience joy.

00:22:36.300 We actually experience joy with our attention outward, serving, right?

00:22:39.920 And part of the exercises that I was doing, it was just actually listing what I was grateful for.

00:22:45.580 And then there's like a 28-day series to do that.

00:22:48.800 Don't you think we would be much better off engaging in those type of practices to serve our mental well-being

00:22:55.560 than incessantly talking about our own narcissistic wants and needs, right?

00:23:00.600 And that's the challenge is do I follow these limited understandings and protocols from my profession?

00:23:07.260 Or do I really step out and serve in the way that I think I'm designed to serve?

00:23:12.160 And how do we talk about depression?

00:23:16.000 Do we talk about it?

00:23:16.880 What happens if we talk about it as a brain illness?

00:23:19.640 That's genetic.

00:23:21.140 That requires a drug.

00:23:23.240 That we have no control over.

00:23:26.020 Versus it's this transformational experience to serve your growth.

00:23:29.720 Where do you think, how do you think the outcomes are going to be?

00:23:32.980 They're going to be so much different in how you talk about it.

00:23:36.920 And that's what's pulled from our educational system.

00:23:39.100 We don't have a collective conversation on resilience.

00:23:43.880 You don't go into public schools and talk about resilience.

00:23:46.500 You go into public schools and you talk about psychiatric disorders and you're a victim.

00:23:53.000 And that victim mentality is creating a fragility that is generational now.

00:24:00.500 And how can I not believe that's purposeful?

00:24:02.840 How can we not all believe that's purposeful?

00:24:05.700 Because no longer are we serving the same greater purpose and mission.

00:24:11.120 As a country, we're not doing that.

00:24:14.000 We are actually serving at the altar of the scientism, right?

00:24:20.460 That if it's not empirically identified, then it doesn't exist.

00:24:25.260 And then we see how that's corrupted too.

00:24:27.620 Like, science is no longer the search for truth.

00:24:30.540 Science is, I own it.

00:24:32.400 Yeah.

00:24:32.720 And you do what I say.

00:24:34.080 If you don't do what I say, you're acting outside the bounds of your professional code

00:24:39.900 or your ethical code.

00:24:41.100 And that's not what our ethical code is.

00:24:43.920 Our ethical code is to serve the well-being of others.

00:24:46.960 It is larger than law.

00:24:50.340 And the highest ethical code is serving God.

00:24:54.420 And my challenge in everything that I want to do professionally right now is I have to

00:25:01.000 one step outside of what I thought I should be or how I predicted my life to be, the safety

00:25:07.460 and the comforts and the security of that.

00:25:10.260 And I have to be willing to give up my job.

00:25:12.700 I have to be willing to no longer serve my clients with a license of being a psychologist.

00:25:18.440 I have to be open to other ways of serving others.

00:25:22.140 And although that creates discomfort and that's scary, it's also, I think, what's divinely

00:25:27.720 inspired in a lot of us.

00:25:29.340 And when you think about the struggles that most people are experiencing right now, it

00:25:32.140 is a struggle of the mind.

00:25:33.520 It is the worry.

00:25:35.000 It's worry about what's going to happen to my kids or where's the future or our minds go

00:25:39.200 back in the past.

00:25:40.020 And it hooks onto the highlight reels of the most embarrassing and worst situations that

00:25:43.980 we've ever had to go through in life.

00:25:45.860 And so we're creating this alternative reality and we live in it.

00:25:49.540 Yeah, it's so true.

00:25:50.860 Gosh, there are so many things I want to respond to.

00:25:52.820 I was thinking when you were talking at first about just how thinking about ourselves and

00:25:57.020 dwelling on ourselves makes us miserable.

00:25:59.960 That's the exact opposite of what we hear.

00:26:02.300 And I see this especially as a woman on social media.

00:26:05.800 And this narrative is marketed to me that the way for me to be happy is to figure out all

00:26:14.840 of the nooks and crannies of my personality, how my mind works, to fully know myself, to

00:26:20.780 fully love myself, to understand every bit of me.

00:26:24.280 And then and only then can I liberate this inner goddess that has been trapped by my own

00:26:30.700 insecurities, by other people's expectations of me, by toxic relationships, by social media

00:26:38.680 and beauty standards, whatever it is.

00:26:42.140 And when I let all of those things go, I'll finally free that inner goddess and I will

00:26:47.980 love myself fully and I'll finally be happy.

00:26:50.500 I'll become rich.

00:26:51.520 I'll attain this perfect career.

00:26:53.340 I'll have these perfect relationships.

00:26:55.040 And then I'll finally reach this pinnacle.

00:26:57.840 I mean, that is like Girl, Wash Your Face, Untamed, Brene Brown, so many of these female 1.00

00:27:04.020 teachers like that is the narrative behind so many of their teachings.

00:27:09.360 And not to tout my own book, but that's why I wrote this book.

00:27:12.780 You're not enough.

00:27:13.400 And that's OK, because I actually see all of that trendy narcissism as a really heavy burden

00:27:20.380 for people to carry because being our own God is really exhausting.

00:27:26.800 The God of self is actually not this liberating, merciful, gracious God.

00:27:31.780 Having to sacrifice everything on the altar of my wants and my personalities and my goals

00:27:39.240 is a really miserable way to live.

00:27:42.520 And so I just think that you're absolutely right, that freeing ourselves of that narcissism

00:27:47.620 and the constant need to think about us and who we are and what we want is much more freeing

00:27:54.760 as far as spirituality goes, but mental health, if you want to call it, that goes.

00:27:59.960 And so anyway, I'm just I'm in agreement with you there.

00:28:02.920 It's such a great point.

00:28:04.040 It's the lie that's sold to us.

00:28:05.980 I think it's a lie sold to us by the enemy, whether the enemy you see spiritually or you

00:28:11.160 see that it's a spiritual enemy in human form, right?

00:28:14.540 Because it is going to only create more mental suffering.

00:28:19.000 Back to that, to the woman that I saw who was sex trafficked. 1.00

00:28:22.820 One of the questions that we started talking about, because I felt like she was just so

00:28:26.760 connected to God in that way, I said, you know, why do you think horrible things or bad

00:28:33.980 things happen to good people?

00:28:36.060 Because those who've been traumatized sometimes struggle with that idea, like this just world

00:28:40.260 hypothesis, like good things only happen to good people, bad things happen to bad people.

00:28:45.440 But I asked her just for her inherent wisdom on that.

00:28:49.060 And she said that in her experience, and this is her connection to Christ, is that what she

00:29:01.800 went through provides her internal love and wisdom.

00:29:05.780 The pain of what she went through is quite short in all of eternity, in the entire experience.

00:29:12.900 Like we can only live in the eternal now.

00:29:15.400 And I think that's where God exists in the eternal now.

00:29:17.920 And that's the problem with our minds and why it creates so much torture for us, because

00:29:22.460 we're often disconnected from the moment.

00:29:24.540 But she had this profound wisdom that what she received from the experience was going to

00:29:33.260 be something that is part of her soul's journey for all of eternity.

00:29:37.660 And that's really hard because the people who are in front of me have been so harmed and

00:29:44.040 traumatized in so many ways that they can't get out of what happened to them in the past.

00:29:51.220 They live there still, and it's about protecting from that from happening again.

00:29:55.080 And I can understand how fear works that way.

00:29:58.240 I think fear is an emotion that's a survival mechanism, right?

00:30:03.320 And it is important to stay alive to serve our mission.

00:30:06.100 But the inability to get out of what happened in the past to fully live in the present is,

00:30:12.240 I think, what stops people from being able to progress forward and to be okay in this life

00:30:17.880 with all the pain that exists.

00:30:19.400 And there's a collective suffering, even when that doesn't happen to you.

00:30:22.840 There is collective suffering that exists on this earth.

00:30:26.000 We're all going to lose somebody close to us.

00:30:29.000 That is absolutely inevitable.

00:30:31.540 And we fear that.

00:30:33.020 And the other thing about modern mental health system and psychology, we're not talking about

00:30:36.900 the fear of death.

00:30:38.920 That's such an important piece to the anxiety that people feel.

00:30:43.200 There is a fear of death because they're tied to their version of themselves, right?

00:30:49.400 I am Roger, the psychologist, or whatever the identity characteristic is.

00:30:54.680 And if I lose this identity, and if I lose my understanding of what this life is, that

00:30:59.800 is so painful, I can't bear it.

00:31:02.640 But that's not my experience.

00:31:04.700 My experience is the default for all of us is resilience and wisdom.

00:31:08.880 And that's not what the narrative is, Allie.

00:31:11.920 The narrative to us is that we're weak, we're fragile, we're dependent, we're mentally ill.

00:31:18.380 And that is harming our collective culture.

00:31:20.680 You know, when you're talking about how depression is actually something that can be used for

00:31:38.520 your development and growth, I always think of the word sanctification.

00:31:43.000 Of course, that's kind of Christianese for the progressive holiness, the progressive development 0.79

00:31:50.120 of the soul through Christ.

00:31:53.140 And I think of James 1 that says,

00:31:55.900 Count it all joy when you meet trials of various kinds, for you know that the testing of your

00:32:01.220 faith produces steadfastness.

00:32:03.640 And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect, complete, lacking in nothing.

00:32:08.540 Which is basically what you're saying, that trials produce a certain kind of character growth

00:32:14.780 that is necessary for our mental, spiritual, and even in some ways, physical maturation.

00:32:19.900 So if we think about hardship like that, rather than, wow, there's something that's wrong with

00:32:25.360 me because my life is supposed to be stable and perfect and happy all the time, you're right.

00:32:29.820 That is a huge mental shift and I think can contribute to our endurance.

00:32:33.580 I think part of this problem is where we're at in American culture, where we are in the

00:32:39.340 development of our country.

00:32:40.420 A lot of people feel like we're in a late stage empire.

00:32:43.400 Yeah.

00:32:44.040 And we see that we are devolving into depravity and we're overextended militarily.

00:32:50.360 We're in debt.

00:32:51.820 We pay 30 plus percent of our paychecks, go to a government that certainly doesn't serve us.

00:32:57.720 And I was reflecting back on a conversation that I had with Abigail Shry, who has an excellent

00:33:03.420 book.

00:33:03.800 Yeah.

00:33:03.900 I wanted to talk to you about that.

00:33:05.420 So yeah, we'll touch on that in a bit.

00:33:06.820 Yeah.

00:33:06.960 She has a book out right now, Bad Therapy, which I would recommend everybody to read that.

00:33:12.180 I agree.

00:33:13.020 And when she was doing research for the book, she and I did, we spoke and we spoke about

00:33:18.500 some generational differences.

00:33:19.780 And I think I'm in a unique period because I'm generation X.

00:33:23.120 I'm going to be 48 years old next month and I was able to witness this cultural shift

00:33:29.180 throughout the 80s to the 90s to the 2000s with technology, with these ideas around mental

00:33:34.720 illness, what's been brought into our culture.

00:33:36.400 And it's like a slippery slope.

00:33:38.100 It just keeps, we keep accepting certain ideas and before we know it, they become our truth.

00:33:43.920 But I was reflecting back on my grandfather, who was a veteran of World War II Pacific.

00:33:48.740 And he would work the night shift as a janitor.

00:33:55.140 And then during the day, he'd go door to door as a salesman, you know, to pay tuition for

00:34:03.520 his seven kids to go to Catholic school.

00:34:05.720 Yeah.

00:34:06.720 And my grandmother, who was a devout Catholic, and she died of lung cancer.

00:34:14.440 She had emphysema because like a lot of women of her generation, she smoked. 1.00

00:34:17.320 And we would have these discussions as she has, as she had oxygen, you know, she's hooked

00:34:25.080 up to oxygen.

00:34:25.980 She's in a wheelchair.

00:34:27.680 And she says that she was so grateful of the suffering that she is experiencing because

00:34:36.260 it brings her closer to Jesus and it brings her closer to those who are suffering.

00:34:41.180 She'd say with a smile on her face.

00:34:43.760 My grandfather always had a smile on his face.

00:34:46.520 His entire world was my grandmother, right?

00:34:51.900 That he, his reason to live was for her.

00:34:56.980 He said, I prayed when I, and you'd have this Philly accent.

00:35:01.560 I prayed when I was in high school for a woman to love and God granted me that.

00:35:07.440 And he had this huge smile on his face.

00:35:09.080 And all he did was serve his family.

00:35:10.560 And that was mental health.

00:35:13.680 That was joy.

00:35:14.680 Both of them.

00:35:15.760 I just observed joy within them.

00:35:18.200 And my wife's grandfather, who I had the opportunity to have these deep conversations with, World War

00:35:24.720 II veteran, Battle of the Bulge.

00:35:27.480 Yeah.

00:35:27.580 He was dug in, in a trench in Bastogne where he was facing an inevitable death, that whole barrage by the, by the German army.

00:35:38.580 And he talked about that experience going through his rations in the first day and the suffering he had to go through.

00:35:44.020 And he said, you know, once you survive something like that, everything else in life is easy.

00:35:51.280 And so we are limited by our heart, by our perspective.

00:35:55.720 Yeah.

00:35:56.020 And now we're in a time where coming into my practice, people will identify being traumatized because they're verbally bullied in school.

00:36:04.340 Or their best friend moved away.

00:36:09.280 And I can't help but be so saddened by this idea of what is trauma that is created in our culture that in so many ways devalues everyone's inherent resilience.

00:36:20.620 And when I say that's not trauma, I'm the bad guy in these scenarios.

00:36:25.840 Like I've had to sit down with some people or even some parents and say that it's harmful for you to create that version of her reality or his reality.

00:36:36.580 And just think about the power of the mental health professional.

00:36:40.120 The power of the mental health professional can create a reality for a person.

00:36:45.660 You can create a victim mindset.

00:36:47.900 You're oppressed.

00:36:48.940 You can break up marriages.

00:36:51.800 You can provide harmful interventions.

00:36:54.840 Like one thing I always say is you can't solve a thinking problem with more thinking.

00:36:58.920 So, you know, you're caught up in your head and you're thinking all the time.

00:37:02.000 And then you come into therapy and what do you do?

00:37:03.940 You judge, you over-evaluate, you think a lot.

00:37:06.680 Yeah.

00:37:07.060 Right?

00:37:07.440 And you're going to worsen.

00:37:08.860 And so we have this therapy culture now and we just accept that therapy and drugs is the path to us feeling well.

00:37:16.860 It's absolute insanity.

00:37:18.940 That's a delusion.

00:37:20.200 That's a collective delusion.

00:37:21.340 How do we buy into something so insane?

00:37:24.280 How do we accept that?

00:37:25.840 Yeah.

00:37:26.760 I have so much to say about what you just said.

00:37:29.300 And part of that last thing, I like to say that the self can't be both the problem and the solution.

00:37:34.460 And so if you're fine, if your problem is in your mind, all of your thoughts are jumbled, they feel anxious, traumatized, whatever it is.

00:37:44.500 And then you're going to a place that tells you the solution is in the same place.

00:37:49.720 If you're finding your problems, that could potentially cause a lot more anxiety, if you want to use that word, or just a bigger burden.

00:37:57.240 Again, it's just saying that you have all of this power.

00:38:01.320 And I think once you realize that it exists outside of you, not necessarily, I'm not saying in a pharmaceutical, but in actually the God who created your soul.

00:38:11.260 So, yeah, there's just a lot of freedom in that.

00:38:14.740 I do have a question based on Abigail Schreier's book and what you just said about kids who feel like they've been through trauma because they've been through a hard thing.

00:38:23.140 What we are told today, again, especially women, I would say especially Christian women, that the greatest form of love is empathy.

00:38:31.560 And empathy is typically defined as affirming what someone feels as true.

00:38:37.460 Not just affirming that their feelings exist, which is one thing, but this phrase, your feelings are valid.

00:38:44.960 We hear that valid, valid, valid.

00:38:46.380 So, there's substance to it.

00:38:48.100 Like, there's a grounding in truth.

00:38:50.720 And that, I think, can be harmful.

00:38:53.960 And in that way, it sounds like what you're saying to the parent is that empathizing to the point of saying, yes, your friend moving away is trauma and we need some kind of medical help to deal with this.

00:39:05.460 And not since empathy is actually harmful.

00:39:09.120 That's such a beautiful point.

00:39:10.780 And there's so much wisdom behind it.

00:39:12.120 So, two thoughts here.

00:39:13.260 Yeah, go for it.

00:39:14.240 One, this is why I think psychiatry is the most dangerous of medical professionals that you can see right now.

00:39:21.540 Because someone goes in and they tell their story, their mind, and they ascribe to it as if it's real, as if it's truth.

00:39:30.940 And then their only option is to drug it, right?

00:39:32.960 Now, affirming somebody's truth, right?

00:39:39.320 So, I can empathize with someone's pain and not attach to the story like it's real, right?

00:39:45.780 I can feel for somebody's emotional pain that their best friend moved away or that they're getting bullied in school and feel for that person as a human while at the same time supporting their ability to deal with things in life that are challenging because life's going to get so much harder than that.

00:40:07.860 You know, I look back at some of the things that my father or my grandparents would say to me that are almost like viewed as abusive today, such as like suck it up or like my grandmothers, you know, would always say we all have a cross to bear, right?

00:40:22.860 And it was just her viewpoint of, yes, there's going to be pain.

00:40:27.000 Now, what are you going to do about it?

00:40:28.140 I mean, this was always my dad's message.

00:40:29.960 Yeah, life's hard.

00:40:31.120 What are you going to do about it?

00:40:33.200 And there's actually inherent wisdom because now you're no longer thinking about what just happened to you.

00:40:37.800 It doesn't necessarily even matter.

00:40:40.540 How you respond to it matters.

00:40:42.720 And we have, we're actually faced with these challenges in little small bites every single day, right?

00:40:49.300 Like even the airport incident last night is just an example of I can't control that.

00:40:55.100 What am I going to do about it?

00:40:56.600 Am I going to create misery around it?

00:40:58.040 Am I going to ruminate around it?

00:40:59.600 Am I going to victimize myself?

00:41:01.340 Nothing works out for me.

00:41:03.060 Oh my God, I'm going on Ali's podcast and, you know, now I'm not going to get down there or like I'm going to be tired.

00:41:10.600 And if I ascribe to that idea, it affects who I am.

00:41:15.460 It affects my mental well-being.

00:41:17.480 And so now we can go up notches for what happens in life, right?

00:41:21.380 Because we're going to face all these trials and tribulations, right?

00:41:26.000 And we should welcome that.

00:41:28.760 We should welcome that as our opportunities for that growth, for that transformation.

00:41:33.060 And when you take on life that way, it changes everything.

00:41:37.800 Here are two lessons that I think are absolutely protective against misery.

00:41:44.660 One is everything is happening for you, not to you.

00:41:48.640 So the moment that you just look at everything, no matter how painful or traumatic it is, so I'm not going to ascribe to a victim mindset because I've worked with victims.

00:41:58.260 I've worked with the most traumatized people.

00:42:01.120 And if they don't ascribe to that mindset, why should I ascribe it to anybody else, right?

00:42:06.040 If they believe that even what happened to them, as horrible and horrific as it is, can serve their growth and they're not going to let it define them, why should I create that mentality for anyone else?

00:42:18.720 So my focus on anyone who comes to me is how can this serve you?

00:42:24.580 Now, it might not be that direct right away, and it's got to be at the right time when somebody can digest it.

00:42:29.760 And I understand that, and that's built in a relationship.

00:42:32.220 And that is why I cannot work any longer outside of my faith.

00:42:37.400 And because that's something I believe strongly in.

00:42:41.520 And I think if you take another mentality around that, you're going to suffer.

00:42:46.540 I don't think I can help you, to be honest with you.

00:42:48.600 And the other thing that is really important, and this is where my client, she shared this directly with me, see God in everybody.

00:42:56.700 And do you know how that's changed my life?

00:42:59.820 I'll now walk down the hall to go out to my waiting room to get a client.

00:43:07.180 And I believe I'm walking into the presence of God, that that person was provided for me.

00:43:14.160 Now, whether that's true or not, now, I believe it's true, but if someone wants to debate that, and they want to say that I'm delusional, it serves me.

00:43:23.100 It creates joy.

00:43:25.320 I think that moment that I have with somebody is a holy moment, and I'm serving God's mission.

00:43:33.380 And that's the other point to this, Allie.

00:43:35.300 And that's why it's so scary to even say these things.

00:43:38.500 Because this can be construed as delusional.

00:43:43.320 This can be construed as, like, a God complex or a Savior complex.

00:43:49.520 And that is not my experience at all.

00:43:52.320 In fact, I don't believe that in the least bit.

00:43:55.740 I think God is with me.

00:43:57.700 God is inside me.

00:43:58.760 The Spirit is inside of me.

00:44:00.140 I can deny the Spirit.

00:44:02.000 And then it's my ego.

00:44:03.760 Then it's that self.

00:44:05.180 And that's when I can create harm, because I'm doing it for the wrong reasons.

00:44:08.940 And I was told, God is always knocking on the door.

00:44:14.600 You need to answer it.

00:44:16.240 You need to listen.

00:44:17.160 And when I started doing that, when I learned to quiet my mind in my sessions and just be in the presence of God.

00:44:24.860 And maybe you experienced this, too.

00:44:29.060 That there's a truth.

00:44:31.520 It's not in words.

00:44:32.940 You speak.

00:44:34.160 You communicate.

00:44:35.780 But it's a flow that exists.

00:44:38.320 And you know it's in truth.

00:44:40.860 Versus when you're in your mind.

00:44:42.320 And you're in the small self.

00:44:44.100 And you're in that ego.

00:44:45.600 You know, you're thinking.

00:44:47.620 And you're analyzing.

00:44:48.720 And you're evaluating.

00:44:49.740 And it's part of what you've learned in culture and so forth.

00:44:52.860 And when I drew that line.

00:44:54.820 And I disconnected from that.

00:44:57.720 Everything changed in my work.

00:45:00.440 And I believe we all have the ability to do that.

00:45:03.040 I don't think I'm special.

00:45:04.720 I think God is in you.

00:45:05.920 I think God is in this moment.

00:45:07.080 When I listen to some of the things that you speak, I don't think that's Allie. 0.94

00:45:10.560 I think the Spirit is working through Allie, right?

00:45:15.580 And that helps people, right?

00:45:17.340 I think people who listen to that, it changes the way they think.

00:45:21.520 It changes the way they feel.

00:45:23.360 And that's incredibly powerful.

00:45:25.460 And I think that's doing God's work.

00:45:28.100 And that's why the mental health industry I have problems with.

00:45:32.500 Because I think there's so many things we can do collectively to serve each other.

00:45:40.560 You know, as you were talking, I started thinking about the C.S. Lewis quote.

00:45:52.400 And I couldn't remember the exact quote.

00:45:55.740 It's from The Weight of Glory.

00:45:56.960 If you haven't read a lot of C.S. Lewis, you should.

00:45:59.160 Because he says a lot of what you're saying now just about people.

00:46:02.620 And I can't read the whole thing.

00:46:03.880 It's a long paragraph.

00:46:04.560 But he says it is a serious thing to live in a society of possible gods and goddesses.

00:46:09.660 And what he's meaning in context is not a real god and goddess, but someone who is going to be in heaven one day, be a heavenly being, or in hell.

00:46:17.100 He says of possible gods and goddesses to remember that the dullest, most uninteresting person you can talk to may one day be a creature which, if you saw it now, you'd be strongly tempted to worship, or else a horror and a corruption such as you now meet, if at all, only in a nightmare.

00:46:32.760 All day long, we are, in some degree, helping each other to one or the other of these destinations.

00:46:38.280 And then he goes on to talk about how all of our interactions with people, you are interacting with someone who is made in the image of God, with an eternal soul, that is going to end up somewhere.

00:46:51.200 And our role in life, especially as Christians, is to aid someone toward that sanctification on a journey to heaven.

00:46:58.780 And so that just speaks to the seriousness, especially of what mental health professionals are doing, because you are appearing into the most vulnerable parts of someone's mind and soul.

00:47:09.560 And even just thinking about the very definition of vulnerable, you are opening yourself up to injury, which is, again, why the role of the mental health professional is so delicate.

00:47:22.840 Yeah. And that's my concern. It's so watered down right now. We're pushing out therapists like it's on an assembly line. And most of the people I'm coming into contact with are not in a position to assume that responsibility.

00:47:38.900 I don't think the rigor exists within the educational system. And of course, when you take God out of the educational system and you talk and you take away sacred texts, philosophy, wisdom that is passed down throughout the course of our own humanity, you remove that and you try to provide this very watered down basic version of what creates joy or happiness.

00:48:04.060 This is why you're driving so many people through the cycle, right? No one can argue that everything is worse, right? When the more mental health treatments that we provide, the worse we all become.

00:48:15.680 And that's my most important statement. In the manner in which we talk about it, in the manner in which we think about it, in the drugs that we're prescribing, the more we provide, the worse people get.

00:48:28.220 And the other lies that I see. And this comes from the government. Psychiatry has always been on the right arm of the government, even the eugenics movement in Nazi Germany, right? It's so easy for a psychiatrist to place a label of mental illness on you, me, anyone, and we lose our rights, right? Personality disorder, bipolar disorder.

00:48:54.320 The harms that I'm seeing in my clinical practice, it's not somebody taking one drug. I'm seeing 23-year-olds, 24-year-olds on six, seven drugs prescribed since they were 15 or 16 years old. They are numbed out. They are detached. They are sedated. And they, I can't even imagine who they were prior to that type of treatment.

00:49:17.380 But I see it as evil. I see it as harmful. What I am proud of is I get on the phone and I get in heated discussions with medical providers. What's interesting is 95% of the people will work with me to safely get these people off these drugs.

00:49:34.380 And what you see in time is their spirit returns to them. And they can get better, not because of anything I'm doing, just because we remove the toxicity.

00:49:45.560 But there will be times where I'll get on this phone and someone will dig in. And I heard about you. I know what you're putting out there on social media. I don't have to do anything you tell me. I'm the physician. I'm the doctor. And these people are so harmful.

00:50:02.260 And that's just increasing. It used to be a time where, you know, a percentage of people came on into my practice with psychiatric drugs. I can't remember the last time someone came into my office not on any psychiatric drug.

00:50:15.740 And it is changing us. It is changing who we are. I'm telling you, heed my warnings, everybody. When you take those drugs, they come with consequences. You are altering who you are. It is impacting the brain in ways that nobody can predict. It affects people differently.

00:50:37.140 Secondly, it certainly increases the likelihood that you could end in a suicide event, that you could act out violently, that you could have permanent sexual dysfunction. That's just one drug.

00:50:48.620 And what happens when you start adding two, three, four in ways that have never been evaluated, that are interacting with each other in ways that we've never studied? It is an experiment, Ali. And it's been an experiment that's been going on for 40 plus years with the general population, right?

00:51:06.440 It used to be reserved for people who are really, really struggling, and they were actually isolated from society. Now it's pushed on everyone in society. The more people that you can identify as mentally ill, the more drugs can be prescribed.

00:51:19.200 And it is part, in my opinion, it's part of this transhumanist, anti-God agenda. You know, the circles in which I work in and the people that I talk to and the people that I'm friends with honestly believe that we are designed to heal, naturally.

00:51:37.900 Even I think the most brilliant physicians understand that, that really what it means to achieve health is sometimes to remove the toxins, remove the poisons, and get yourself back into balance in what you put into your body and how you live your life, the mind-body connection.

00:51:56.340 The most dangerous of professionals believe that you are inherently broken and we can experiment with you, with pharmaceuticals and technology and medical interventions and various genetic sequencing and changes.

00:52:10.520 Like, we are under mass experimentation. There's no other way to deny that, right?

00:52:15.180 And if we don't look at it in terms of some type of spiritual component that also exists within that, because it is a lot of the transhumanists, their belief system is they believe they can achieve a godlike status, that they can live forever, that they can be connected to AI, that there's an interface between computers and humans.

00:52:36.840 It's really dark and it's really dystopian. And that has certainly entered into the mental health field. And most people who are listening to this will never think about it that way or have never thought about it that way.

00:52:48.100 And it really goes back to the Garden of Eden. I mean, so many things do. I talk about the creation story so often in the fall. I mean, how did Satan tempt Eve? Did God really say, did God really say he manipulated the truth of what God said?

00:53:03.880 But then the temptation was, no, no, no, no. If you eat this fruit, you will be like God. You will be like God, knowing good and evil. Part of that was true. Their eyes were open to things that they hadn't been open to before. And they didn't see the consequences of how that would ripple through the rest of human history. And we're still tempted with the same temptation today, wanting to be like God.

00:53:30.100 And we are seeing those kind of deadly effects. What do you do with the stories? Because I just have such a hard time when it comes to someone coming to me. And I will get these messages after this. I'll get messages that say, he is exactly right on. I saw this and my husband and my dad, etc.

00:53:48.940 And then I'll get the message from the genuinely Christian woman who understands spirituality and the importance of the soul, who will say, look, I was at my darkest moment when I was postpartum. And this antidepressant is the only thing that lifted me out of it.

00:54:07.540 I would say, I would have committed suicide. I would have not been able to be there for my child. And I tried praying. I tried going to church. I tried community. I tried exercising. This SSRI, she might say, is the only thing that helped me survive. I have a hard time knowing how to respond to that person. What is your take on it?

00:54:28.360 First of all, one thing I've learned right now is anecdotes don't serve me in the same way that they have in the past, because I've been doing this for quite some time. And I've never heard that story or saw it in person. The only time I ever get it is in social media comments. So I haven't witnessed that.

00:54:51.980 But I can also explain why that could happen. There's this fascinating study that recently came out. So there was this TADS study, I think it was probably around 2010, 2011. It's actually the study that's used to justify antidepressants for adolescents. TADS standing for the treatment for adolescent depression, something for the S, I can't recall.

00:55:18.220 Now, what's interesting is like a lot of the scientific research, it was completely misrepresented. There's a gentleman out of Stanford called John Ioannidis, who is a medical researcher. He's what's known as like a meta researcher. He examines all the medical research. And he came to the conclusion that 90% of the conclusions of the medical research are either misrepresented, overvalued, or flat out wrong, right?

00:55:45.220 And so a lot of people attach to these conclusions, but don't understand actually how poor the science is. But the conclusions are supporting an industry or an ideology. So that's important to acknowledge, because that's one of the reasons why these drugs are put out there. There's no postpartum depression drug. And we can get into that, because I think that's an important distinction.

00:56:04.720 But they re-evaluated the data from the TADS study. And this just came out this year, 2024, where in that study, they had the teens, the parents, and the doctors predict, because it was blinded, did you get the placebo drug or did you get the antidepressant drug?

00:56:23.940 Those who predicted that they got the antidepressant drug when they only received the placebo got better. Those who got the antidepressant drug but believed they got the placebo did not show the same improvement. That is the power of the mind.

00:56:48.220 We don't talk about the placebo effect. We did today. We didn't mention the placebo effect in its label, but we talked about the power of the mind today, right?

00:56:58.920 So basically, if this woman believes that her brain is broken, that she has this disease called postpartum depression, that it's originated in the mind, emitted from the brain, there is something genetically wrong with her, and she is giving a pill that's labeled for that antidepressant, and she believes it, then she's right.

00:57:24.360 I believe that how she creates her reality around it will support that. This saved my life. Now, what's important for us to note is that is her creation. That is what she believes. This is why we have to have clinical trials. This is why I believe in science, that it is to protect us from harmful interventions.

00:57:46.960 There was a time where bloodletting was a very acceptable medical treatment until they implemented the empirical method and realized that it wasn't. And that was very hard at the time for physicians, when you look in medical history, to give that up because they saw it. They saw that it worked.

00:58:04.180 So this goes back to empathy and affirming. Like, I can feel your pain. I can understand what you're going through. I can connect with you on a human level. And I don't have to agree with your idea, right? Very similar to gender ideology, right?

00:58:18.080 And the last time I was here sitting in this chair, you threw that at me. And I was scared to address it. I was scared to address it because of clients I had in front of me. I was scared to address it because of what my profession tells me, that I could lose my license if I somehow speak out of line to what the rules are or what the laws are of my profession.

00:58:37.920 And I have to somehow attest to this affirmative care model. And that's part of where my shame has been, that I didn't speak out against that, when I absolutely should have. Now, I danced around it and said I was concerned for the parents, which was true. 0.98

00:58:53.300 But I didn't really share how the idea that our culture has created, that you could somehow be born into the wrong body, which is an idea that our culture has created, harms people, right? It absolutely harms people. We can't deny that.

00:59:10.280 And I watched your debate with the trans activist. And one of my takeaways was how one can irresponsibly throw out data to support an argument. And you have much more patience than I do. And that's where I thought, you know, the God was in you. 0.72

00:59:29.020 And I've totally felt that. I really did. I felt the Holy Spirit keeping and helping me see, you know, back to the amazing testimony that you told. And this is obviously a much different scenario than that. But I really did in that moment feel the Holy Spirit tell me the image of God is in that person. This person is hurting. I don't think he fully told me everything that, you know, had hurt him in his life. Be patient.

00:59:56.840 I really did. So I can't take credit for that at all. But I felt that in that moment, someone saying, hold back, because it's not my natural. My natural is because, oh my gosh, this ideology is killing people how I see it. It's mutilating people's bodies. I'm so angry with you that you're promoting it to kids. And yeah, yeah, God is amazing.

01:00:17.880 Yes. And I heard that in you. And I was amazed by how that compassionate approach is probably going to change hearts versus the anger. And that's been my problem, right? That's been my challenge has been with the anger that I feel. That I want to lash out. That I want to see these people as evil and harmful and I want to go after them, right?

01:00:43.800 And that's not how you change hearts. And that's not how you change minds. You change hearts and minds with stories, with connection. And so where this gentleman, his argument was, I trust the professionals, which might be one of the more dangerous arguments that a person can make this time.

01:01:04.200 First of all, it's a lie. First of all, it's a lie. There is no consensus. WPATH doesn't speak for me. The American Psychological Association does not speak for me. I'm a clinical psychologist. There is no consensus on the views of transgender youth. 0.59

01:01:23.400 In fact, there's organizations around the world of medical doctors, of psychologists, of mental health professionals who have genuine concerns and can speak to a lot of the things that you said. And it's so fascinating because, you know, I treat eating disorders. I do treat OCD.

01:01:40.720 And then there's an obsessive compulsive disorder called body dysmorphic disorder. And so it's this intense focus on a body part that you believe is really ugly, right? And it creates a lot of anxiety and a lot of shame. And the obsessive part is the degree of focus on it, right?

01:02:01.240 And it goes back to you never really see anyone who is truly doing well when they focus on themselves. But we know that trying to get plastic surgery or to change the body creates harm. Like that's known in my field. When I'm working with somebody, my suggestion would never be change that body part and you're going to feel better.

01:02:21.060 If I have a 14-year-old who is anorexic underweight and they're dying and they hate their body and they believe that they will feel better if they're 85 pounds, I would never affirm that reality. But then somebody comes in the same vulnerable state and I'm supposed to affirm the idea that they were born into the wrong body?

01:02:40.080 That is in direct conflict with what we know about how to help people. And that's why it's not a science-driven profession, right? If it was a science-driven profession, we wouldn't talk about drugging emotional states. We wouldn't talk about cross-sex hormones or trying to change the body of a vulnerable adolescent.

01:03:04.600 And wait, I have a question here because I'm thinking about this. On the one hand, we've just been talking about how psychiatry doesn't really believe there's a soul, that you're kind of just a body. Everything can be explained by that. At the same time, there's this idea that's inherent in gender ideology that says who you really are is in almost like a spiritual sense is what you feel on the inside and it can't be explained by your body.

01:03:31.360 So it almost is a type of soul. It's like a gendered soul that you think actually trumps your physical reality. So I don't know if you've thought about it in those terms or what the confusion is there. How can psychiatry simultaneously say there is no soul and also say there is this inner self that is independent from the body that tells you who you really are when it comes to gender?

01:03:55.360 Is it just dissonant and like there's no explanation for it? Or is there some kind of ideological connection?

01:04:01.940 You know, it's interesting because I haven't necessarily thought about it that way until you just mentioned it. But you see this is that in a field like psychiatry, for example, where there's not a strong science base is they'll create ideas to fit what they do, right? They're making things up as they go along.

01:04:18.200 So even when we talk about the value of antidepressants, it started with the chemical imbalance theory. And once that's kind of disputed, you know, they're just going to transition to something else. There's going to be some other junk science or some other explanation that's going to support their intervention.

01:04:32.480 Even the it's not to say that everyone who goes into psychiatry is an evil person and is not in their mind. I think they're doing what they believe is correct or it's right. But there's a dissonance right there. You can't you take an oath not to create harm.

01:04:47.100 So if you actually learn that the prescriptions that you are writing or the ideas you are ascribing to are actually creating harm, what do you do with that information, right? It does create a dissonance and you have to resolve that dissonance. And when you resolve that dissonance, you're probably going to intellectualize it in some way. And I think that pretty much is the explanation.

01:05:17.100 I do want to hear what you have to say about there not being a postpartum depression drug. There's a lot of people in this audience who have experienced some kind of, you know, we used to call it baby blues. Maybe they feel, though, that they were really in a state of depression or anxiety. So you talked about how, you know, it's hard to treat that with just an SSRI. So what do you mean?

01:05:41.040 Yeah, I've jumped into this and consulted with experts on this. And one person I want to defer to and actually promote is Dr. Adam Urato. He's a maternal and fetal medicine physician, Harvard trained, and he's in Massachusetts. And he posts a lot of research on this. He'll post videos. I really want to support his work because I think he's reasonable. He's objective. And what I like about Dr. Urato is this, is he serves the families in his community.

01:06:11.040 So he works in the town that he grew up in. And in our modern medical system, you become affiliated with these large-scale hospital-based networks. And you don't develop the same personal connection with your patients that you do if you were independent and you were working in your community and you develop those strong bonds and connections and you're accountable to mothers, for example.

01:06:39.860 So I just like who he is as a man. And I trust that. And he speaks out and he says chemicals have consequences, right? And it's very important to state that these are chemical compounds made in a factory and they have consequences.

01:06:52.200 Here is what your audience should know. There are no approved SSRI antidepressant drugs for postpartum depression. When the FDA doesn't even approve it, and the FDA is corrupt and has approved drugs that harm people routinely throughout history, when they don't have a drug that's approved, understand that it is an experimental medical intervention.

01:07:16.600 There is one drug that has approved by the FDA for postpartum depression. God, I'm going to butcher this. It begins with a Z, Zurove or something to that nature. I don't think it really matters. So I dug into the research there.

01:07:37.060 First of all, what's really interesting, as with many clinical trials, is the placebo drug did really well in the trials. If you take this drug, which is a steroidal, it's an oral steroid, they call it an oral steroidal antidepressant. So they use the antidepressant name again, because language is powerful.

01:07:56.820 But you can't operate a vehicle. What mother is going to take a drug with all these side effects, which include suicidal thoughts, worsening mood, a myriad of other ones, where you can't even operate a vehicle? Like, how do you get to your appointments? How do you take care of an infant when you can't operate a vehicle?

01:08:20.820 Right. Okay. SSRIs are passed through the breast milk. They absolutely impact fetal development. The published research on that is clear. Neurodevelopmental problems, cognitive disorders, autism.

01:08:38.840 Are you talking about when she takes it while pregnant or while breastfeeding?

01:08:41.680 While pregnant.

01:08:42.360 Okay.

01:08:42.600 So a lot of babies.

01:08:44.560 Well, you said fetal development.

01:08:46.140 Okay. Got it.

01:08:46.860 A lot of babies are born dependent and in withdrawal on SSRIs. It's published literature. And why does that happen, Allie? It's because of the mental illness delusion, right? The psychiatrist saying that your mental illness might be worse than the side effects of the drug. Oh, really? A special needs child?

01:09:09.340 A baby born? A baby born? That in withdrawal? Imagine what a mother would go through. If they're actually aware of this information, they know they took SSRIs and you have an autistic child, right? What do you think that's going to do to depression? 0.51

01:09:26.060 So I would never, for a family member, for a friend, for a client, under any circumstances, any circumstances at all, I need to be clear, I need to be definitive, to ever take a psychiatric drug while pregnant because it's going to impact the baby or any drug that isn't absolutely proven to be safe for you and the baby.

01:09:52.480 And you're not going to find many. Okay? Now, that doesn't underscore the importance of postpartum depression and having a nuanced, important discussion around it.

01:10:03.200 I just recently had a young mother on my podcast by the name of Kate Galvin, who is now just doing a lot of health coaching because she went through postpartum depression. Young mother, she's actually a fan of your show. She's a listener. It was one of the most informative episodes that I've recorded.

01:10:26.400 And her brilliance on that felt like you were in the presence of God as well. And I find I get more critical discussions around these subjects when I get outside of the professionals, because the professionals, by way of their training, are just brainwashed.

01:10:42.840 So when I get a young mother who's gone through it, we spoke to the complexity of postpartum depression. First of all, it's a cultural problem. We know it's a cultural problem, right?

01:10:53.120 Yeah, that's true.

01:10:53.660 What really does impact postpartum depression? Significant hormonal changes that a mother is going through. And there's probably a way to support that too, nutritionally, with sleep, with family being around them. 0.93

01:11:09.820 Like what we do to women in our modern society is sinful, in my opinion, right? Fathers, family members, community members should really be protecting young mothers as we have done throughout history, right? Now that's part of the harms of the capitalistic world that we serve, right? We serve industry. We're not serving our families in the same way.

01:11:35.100 And that's why a lot of these institutions that we've relied on, the veil's kind of been lifted in so many ways. And it creates a lot of fear for so many people that when there's awakening occurs, we realize that we have to return to a lot of traditional ways in community.

01:11:53.840 So sleep deprivation is critically important. I had Lily Nichols, who's a nutritionist. Are you aware of Lily Nichols?

01:12:02.800 Yes, I do. Well, I'm thinking, I'm like, I definitely know that name. Maybe I follow her.

01:12:06.640 Yeah.

01:12:06.820 Okay.

01:12:07.900 And her focus, and she's got a total grasp of the scientific literature in her base.

01:12:12.500 Yeah.

01:12:12.640 So she is around, you know, postpartum, as well as fertility. 0.99

01:12:19.480 Yeah.

01:12:20.280 Nutrition.

01:12:21.080 Yes.

01:12:21.600 And she spoke to what happens postpartum to a mother with nutritional deficiencies, and then how that presents in what the medical establishment would be viewing as psychiatric, right?

01:12:35.840 And that's the problem with what's been melded and conflated together in the psychiatric world, right? Is that often the label prevents further exploration of what is really going on medically, right?

01:12:50.560 See, no one's depressed because they have major depressive disorder. No one's depressed because they have postpartum depression.

01:12:58.900 They may be depressed because of sleep deprivation. They might be struggling internally with what it means to be a mother.

01:13:05.280 Right. So true.

01:13:07.480 I remember when my second daughter was born, and my wife had this guilt that she wasn't attending to the needs of our two-year-old, right? Because so much was being given to the infant. And, of course, there's so many hormonal changes that are fueling mood shifts and so forth. And I remember just being really despair and her being in despair about not being able to serve Madison's needs.

01:13:30.820 Yeah.

01:13:31.060 She was also sleep deprived. And Alexa had colic.

01:13:35.200 Yeah.

01:13:35.420 So we were certainly not at our best. But we would never view that as postpartum depression.

01:13:40.500 So when you don't think about it that way, when it's not created in your consciousness, you find other ways to cope.

01:13:46.700 Yeah.

01:13:46.960 I've got to get my mother-in-law in here. I've got to get my mother to help. 0.95

01:13:50.140 Yeah.

01:13:50.440 All right. I'm going to see what I'm going to do with my work schedule.

01:13:53.200 Right.

01:13:53.640 I've got to step up.

01:13:54.860 Yeah.

01:13:55.060 I've got to be up. I have to get that baby at night after she's breastfeed, and I've got to deal with the colic, right?

01:14:01.120 Yeah.

01:14:01.300 There's so many factors that are so important in serving that.

01:14:05.140 But we're in such a fear-based culture, because this is what the media is going to do. They're going to promote a story of some mother who becomes psychotic and drives into a lake with her children. And then they're going to call that postpartum depression to put the fear of God in all mothers that if they experience mood changes or they're struggling.

01:14:23.780 They're going to kill their baby. Yeah.

01:14:25.080 And so then they go into the medical system, and they go on experimental mind and mood-altering drugs that haven't been researched long-term.

01:14:33.900 Yeah. You know, we get this, like, questionnaire in our postpartum appointments that is basically like, do you find yourself crying for any reason? And I'm always like, yeah. I mean, I had a baby two weeks ago, and so that does happen.

01:14:49.500 And I mean, thankfully, I've never been medicated. I do look back after my first pregnancy, and there have been times where I've wondered, wow, did I have postpartum depression?

01:14:58.000 But then, as you were talking, I was thinking about all of the factors there. First, you're a new mom. I remember it was July, our air conditioning went out.

01:15:05.500 I felt like I was alone in a lot of ways and didn't know what I was doing. Also, there's a whole problem with the medical industry and pushing things like Pitocin, which is the artificial form of oxytocin, which I'm pretty sure that there is a study that shows that there's something like a 20% increase in chance of, I guess you wouldn't call it depression.

01:15:25.680 I don't know what it is. Some form of baby blues after birth when you use Pitocin versus just relying on the natural hormone. That happened in my first birth. There's so many different parts of this, and as you said, even culturally, and I'm not shaming people whose lives have led them to have babies later.

01:15:41.260 It's just the way that it is right now, is that when everyone was having babies when they were 20, you had not only aunts and grandmothers, but maybe great-grandmother around, all living in the same place. You had so much support.

01:15:55.860 Well, my grandmother died three months after my first baby was born. It's just not the same. You don't have the same kind of generational support. So you're right. That can't be fixed by a pill.

01:16:06.640 Yeah, and you also speak to the toxicities that we're exposed to that have unknown consequences, right? The endocrine disruptors. Kate Galvin, who's on my podcast, had a thyroid condition that went undetected.

01:16:16.720 Yeah, right.

01:16:17.440 It was undiagnosed. And then once that got corrected, once she solved that issue, and she solved it naturally, she found a way to solve it naturally with a number of medical, another of natural interventions around nutrition and sun exposure and other things.

01:16:34.320 She felt a lot better. And so there are legitimate medical issues, and there might be the need for medicines. I'm very careful about how I use the word medicine, right? Because psychiatric drugs are not medicine. They're drugs. They're pharmaceuticals.

01:16:49.540 But there are, and you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, go all or nothing. There are some medicines that actually do target and are medicinal, right?

01:17:00.500 They correct something that is like there's a deficiency or so forth. I think like blood pressure, for example, is a great one. And Dr. Urato talks about this. Like chemicals have consequences. And we may treat a pregnant mother with blood pressure medication. We're not going to sit there and wait for her to have an aneurysm, right? Or something of that nature.

01:17:21.900 And is there potential consequences to the baby? We have to be open about that. But now we're measuring it against the risks of death and the risk to the baby if you have high blood pressure.

01:17:35.020 That's not the same as this concept of mental illness, of a mental illness that you're going to take a drug and that's somehow going to protect you from it, which is not proven. It's not correcting anything. There's no deficiency that we've identified.

01:17:51.900 There are a lot of people listening to this. Some people hearing what you're saying for the first time and others who are like, yeah, I've been thinking this too, but I don't know where to turn.

01:18:09.460 They don't know how to find a doctor, healthcare providers that are going to align with these values.

01:18:15.800 And so can you tell us about the collective that you've started to help patients and potential patients find someone that will support them?

01:18:23.060 Yeah. So thank you so much because I do want to give credit to your audience and the opportunity for me to be on this podcast.

01:18:31.220 It was yours and Alex Clark's podcast that inspired this.

01:18:37.140 And this is where we talked about earlier that you have to give up on what your life is supposed to be and you have to just go with what the calling is.

01:18:45.460 And so here's been my challenge since I've been on your podcast initially because you have such a large audience and they're an amazing audience.

01:18:53.800 Like they're just really, really good people.

01:18:57.120 Totally agree.

01:18:57.860 And I wish I could get back to everybody, but there is not a day goes by that I don't get an email.

01:19:04.120 Some of the overwhelming emails have been, we really need some help.

01:19:09.900 We need to find somebody who's not going to push these ideologies, who's going to be able to provide informed consent, who we know we can trust.

01:19:19.320 Do you have a recommendation?

01:19:21.560 And I don't, especially in my field.

01:19:24.200 There's not many people like me speaking out against this.

01:19:28.020 And it's hard for me to hire mental health professionals.

01:19:32.180 So how am I going to be able to recommend somebody who is in Nevada, Texas, California or so forth?

01:19:39.200 But what I do, and this is interesting, Allie, and this I can understand, is I get a lot of people who are in either the medical field or are mental health professionals who send me emails thanking me for speaking out, that I'm speaking to exactly what they're going through.

01:19:58.060 But they just can't do anything about it right now because of the systems that they work in.

01:20:03.840 So I've just prayed on this.

01:20:07.180 And so I've created the Conscious Clinician Collective.

01:20:10.480 It's a nonprofit, 5013C.

01:20:13.100 It's got two important components.

01:20:15.280 If you go to our website, which is thecccollective.org, there is a declaration, right?

01:20:24.280 Read the declaration, okay?

01:20:26.300 It's important.

01:20:28.800 I think it's of the highest moral and ethical standards.

01:20:32.500 I don't think it can be debated scientifically.

01:20:35.640 I don't think it can be debated morally.

01:20:37.400 Even if you're not a Christian, even if you're not religious, read that. 0.81

01:20:44.620 My guess is it'll speak to you because we have a moral and ethical standard to protect people from harm.

01:20:51.640 We also have a moral, ethical, and legal standard to provide informed consent.

01:20:57.120 And what does informed consent mean?

01:20:59.040 Is that whenever there is an intervention, therapy included, we have a legal mandate, an ethical mandate, to explain to them the limitations of that intervention.

01:21:11.480 We have to talk about the potential costs, harms, and any perceived benefits.

01:21:18.840 We also have to explain to them what alternatives might exist.

01:21:23.980 So in today's podcast, we actually talked about alternatives to the mental health system, right?

01:21:29.040 We talked about alternatives to the idea of therapy or psychiatric drugs.

01:21:34.060 And so I don't expect anyone today to blindly trust what I'm telling you.

01:21:38.920 Do your research yourself.

01:21:41.000 I am one professional in a sea of many, okay?

01:21:44.540 I'm speaking my truth.

01:21:46.000 I'm speaking my understanding of it.

01:21:47.780 But you know when you come and see me, there's going to be a high moral and ethical standard because I am not, at this point, moving forward,

01:21:58.240 the medical authority is not my authority, and it never will be.

01:22:02.260 But you are God for me.

01:22:04.500 You are in front of me.

01:22:06.020 You are the presence of God.

01:22:07.980 I have a responsibility to you, as we all do as medical professionals.

01:22:12.160 And if we don't do something about it, Allie, we're at risk of losing a lot.

01:22:17.340 We haven't been doing anything about it.

01:22:19.180 We go into these medical professionals, we go into these hospital systems, and we blindly sign these consent forms that attests to our knowledge of what's being provided,

01:22:29.200 and no doctor is accountable or responsible right now for giving us informed consent.

01:22:33.420 The only way we can make change is if we mass resist and make a movement.

01:22:39.340 Something has to change, right?

01:22:40.720 So this is an opportunity, and this is in the very foundation groundwork of this.

01:22:49.380 Like I have to build money to build this platform.

01:22:53.460 And that's hard for me to do because that's not my area of expertise.

01:22:56.700 So we want to build a platform where clinicians across the healthcare spectrum attest to that declaration, and there'll be a searchable database for people to go on and say, who's in my locality, right?

01:23:11.560 Who attests to that declaration?

01:23:13.940 And it's around medical freedom.

01:23:15.820 It's around informed consent.

01:23:18.100 It's respect for your personal autonomy.

01:23:20.900 And I think that's critical, right?

01:23:23.080 And so that's part one, and I can only do that when I can build enough funds to be able to support that, to build that platform, and people have to sign up for it.

01:23:33.740 So there's two things we need.

01:23:35.000 We need the professionals to read it, to sign up and grow this movement because it has to be a revolution.

01:23:41.020 And if anyone sees it in their hearts to make a donation, even if it's the cost of a cup of coffee, every little bit helps us build this.

01:23:49.100 Here's the greater vision, Ali, and I pray on this every single day.

01:23:54.920 If you want to find out information right now about medical interventions, most people do a Google search.

01:24:01.000 And evidence from the advertising world shows that you're not really going to go past page one, even.

01:24:08.980 And that is filtered information bought and paid for by industries that serve their bottom line.

01:24:16.720 I mean, you'll still go to like WebMD, and they'll still describe depression as a chemical imbalance.

01:24:23.680 And then they're just going to promote their interventions, right?

01:24:28.120 You'd have to go really deep to figure out all these alternatives, the harms of the interventions, and so forth.

01:24:36.880 So where do we get information?

01:24:39.480 Well, one, we get information from podcasts.

01:24:41.360 What a blessing that has been, that we get out of the corporate media, and professionals have the freedom to be able to talk about what they're actually experiencing, what they're actually reading.

01:24:51.320 Because for a long time, it's been these corrupt organizations who are speaking for everybody.

01:24:56.860 And if you act out of line, well, then you are violating your principles.

01:25:01.840 So we need that informed consent piece.

01:25:04.680 But how about a network, a large-scale network of media and studies, not to push an agenda.

01:25:15.340 Because if you want to stay within the medical authority, and you want to stay in the system exists, and there could be some benefits to that.

01:25:22.100 And there certainly are.

01:25:23.560 There are some benefits in our medical world.

01:25:25.020 We do have some great medical professionals.

01:25:26.620 But it's your responsibility, because it has to be our responsibility now, we can't blindly trust anymore, to be able to do some research and understand and ask the questions.

01:25:36.400 We can't sit there and expect these eight-minute sessions that are in primary care and medical systems that are actually serving financial interests and not serving patient well-being to be the norm.

01:25:47.840 So we need the time to ask those hard questions.

01:25:50.560 You need to question your medical professional.

01:25:53.060 If we've learned anything from COVID, you cannot blindly trust them.

01:25:57.940 The veil has been lifted.

01:25:59.480 There's the corruption.

01:26:01.300 Put them on the spot.

01:26:02.860 It is their responsibility to know this.

01:26:07.780 85%, 80% to 85% of psychiatric drugs are being prescribed in primary care settings by doctors who have no knowledge of this.

01:26:13.600 They are not experts on this.

01:26:15.120 They're irresponsibly pushing these drugs out there.

01:26:17.780 Nobody is getting informed consent.

01:26:19.340 We're pushing them on children.

01:26:20.980 The consequences are severe.

01:26:22.360 They're accountable.

01:26:24.320 They're responsible.

01:26:25.940 I used to let the medical professionals off the hook, right?

01:26:29.200 They're victims of a system.

01:26:30.700 Baloney.

01:26:31.460 That was my mistake.

01:26:33.260 I should never have actually even said that.

01:26:35.600 Because if I'm accountable to my patients, and I'm not a medical professional, I'm a clinical psychologist, and I can do the research, and I can talk to people, well, then you have that responsibility.

01:26:43.960 And I don't care about your loans.

01:26:46.040 And I don't care about how much money you make.

01:26:48.100 And I don't care about what your boss is telling you to have to do.

01:26:51.440 You have a responsibility to stand up against that or nothing is going to change.

01:26:56.520 These doctors in the hospital system, the Affordable Care Act has pretty much eliminated independent doctors.

01:27:02.860 So, they are now cogs in a system following blindly those protocols.

01:27:07.480 These protocols are being influenced by the pharmaceutical industries who are funding these major medical organizations, right?

01:27:14.980 And I know there's a lot of people out there who know exactly what I'm saying and can understand the anger that I have.

01:27:19.620 I know there's a lot of good people out there.

01:27:21.780 Join this.

01:27:22.440 Please.

01:27:22.800 Be a part of this.

01:27:23.760 Because that's the only way we can make change, right?

01:27:26.680 And, you know, this isn't anything I sought out to do in my life.

01:27:30.260 I had a pretty cushy life, I think.

01:27:31.980 You know?

01:27:32.140 I did love being a psychologist, a therapist, and being so involved in my family.

01:27:37.160 But when you're called to do something, you do it.

01:27:39.280 Yeah.

01:27:39.620 And we all have to be able to kind of take that next step in the face of courage right now.

01:27:43.860 Yes, and amen.

01:27:45.360 Everyone can go to thecccollective.org.

01:27:48.620 We'll put the link in the description of this podcast so that they can just click on it easily.

01:27:53.340 They can check out your Radically Genuine podcast as well.

01:27:56.580 Thank you so much.

01:27:57.440 Thanks for your courage.

01:27:58.520 Go ahead.

01:27:59.640 There's two other things I want to be able to promote.

01:28:02.180 Sure.

01:28:02.900 And I should have said it earlier when we were talking about hallucinations or spiritual phenomenon.

01:28:07.740 I have a colleague, Dr. Susan Hannon, who is actually doing research right now on those who have—

01:28:13.860 receive some spiritual or meaningful benefit from having that phenomenon.

01:28:19.260 And if we can put her link in the show summary for anyone who might want to be a part of that research, that would be great.

01:28:26.800 Additionally, I'm writing for Substack.

01:28:29.840 And I've put out an article a week for an entire year.

01:28:34.260 Awesome.

01:28:35.140 And it's free.

01:28:37.180 And I never know what I'm going to write about until the morning I sit down and write.

01:28:40.760 I just pray for it.

01:28:41.840 And I just see what flows.

01:28:43.820 And it's another way of getting information out there, right?

01:28:46.660 And so you can get that from drmcfillin.com or you can go to drmcfillin.substack.com.

01:28:51.960 It's called Radically Genuine.

01:28:53.020 And if you sign up for that, then it's a free publication.

01:28:56.700 And that's the only way we make change is when we're fully educated in this way.

01:29:00.480 Totally.

01:29:00.880 Well, thank you so much for all you do.

01:29:02.560 And again, just appreciate your bravery.

01:29:05.020 I know that you wish—you said that you wish that you had spoken up sooner.

01:29:10.240 But gosh, I just see how God has ordained even the timing of your journey to coincide with exactly what He wants to accomplish.

01:29:17.800 So we can be confident in that.

01:29:19.340 So thank you so much.

01:29:20.680 Thank you.

01:29:20.980 Thank you.

01:29:21.000 Thank you.

01:29:21.060 Thank you.

01:29:23.000 Thank you.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - July 10, 2024

Ep 1031 ｜ Psychiatry Is Killing People ｜ Guest： Dr. Roger McFillin

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