Ep 1037 ｜ The Government Doesn’t Want Christians to Adopt ｜ Guest： Josh Weigel
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Summary
The Sound of Hope is an incredible movie about a church in Possum Trot, Texas who took on 77 foster kids, adopting them into their home simply because the Holy Spirit compelled them to do so. And now their story is reaching so many people who need to see what it looks like to live out the Christian command to take care of the orphan. We have got the producer, director, and writer of the movie, Josh Weigel, with us today to talk about this incredible story.
Transcript
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The Sound of Hope is an incredible movie about a church in Possum Trot, Texas, who took on
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77 foster kids, adopting them into their home simply because the Holy Spirit compelled them
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to do so. And now their story is reaching so many people who need to see what it looks like
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to live out the Christian command to take care of the orphan. We have got the producer, director
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of the movie with us today, Josh Weigel. It's just an incredible story. This is a compelling
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interview too that really educated and encouraged me. Before we get to the conversation, let me show
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you this really moving clip from the movie. Here's that one. When people say that they want to adopt,
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they don't usually mean kids like Terry. They're just afraid. That's all. Had to get your eyes
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on other things. But see, we got the eyes on this right now. And this is all that we see.
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We got over 20, 20 families that want kids just like Terry. And any other child that need
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a home. And that's just a little neck of the woods. You think about that. We got churches
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on every corner. Every single one. And each and every one of them people, they don't heard the
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same thing. There shouldn't be a child without a home. We can turn this whole thing around.
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So amazing. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to
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GoodRanchers.com. Use code Allie at checkout. That's GoodRanchers.com. Code Allie.
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Josh, thanks so much for taking the time to join us. Can you tell everyone who you are,
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what you do? Yes. I'm Josh Weigel. I was a director, producer, and writer with my wife.
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She and I produced and wrote the film, Son of Hope, The Story of Possentrot. So glad to be here.
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Really glad. Appreciate you. Yeah. Tell us how you got into producing this movie.
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Well, you know, we've been in the business for a long time. I think we're in LA for 23 years,
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starting in 1998. And, you know, we're working on a feature film called The Butterfly Circus based on a
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short film we did back in 2010 and making really exciting progress, but we just couldn't quite get
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the right deal to work out. And then we came across the story, partly because my wife and I adopted two
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of our kids. And so we were kind of already in that world and living it. And Rebecca works extensively
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in Los Angeles, connecting churches to this issue and trying to get more people involved.
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And so along the way, she needed a speaker, found Bishop Martin. And we kind of remembered the story
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had happened about this community somewhere that adopted all these kids. And long story short,
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she called him up. And within days, you know, we had decided this could be, you know, an important
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movie. And my thinking was, we just got to figure out how to make it a movie because it's a big story.
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Yeah. And it's a lot. So it took a little while, but we immediately felt like compelled to do this.
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And we left everything that we were working on just to focus singularly on this at that time.
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And obviously people are going to watch the movie, which came out on July 4th to get all of the
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details about the story. But give us a summary. Why was this such a powerful testimony that you
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Love to. Yeah. So very briefly, First Lady Donna Martin went through some tough times losing her mom.
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And through that process, she kind of came to a place with God where she felt like he was telling
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her to give back. And this is the wife of the pastor. Yes. She's the wife of Reverend Martin,
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who was Bishop Martin nowadays, but back then it was Reverend Martin. So she felt like she was supposed
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to start adopting. She knew nothing about this and looked into it. And before long, they had convinced
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22 other families to join them in adopting kids out of the foster system. And they ended up adopting 77
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kids in this little tiny rural town, East Texas. I mean, it's not even an actual town. It's just a region
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with a few hundred people in it. But they took on this monumental task with just courage and,
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you know, they dove right in. So it was powerful because they were such an example. And I want to
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understand how that worked and how that could do more to the broader issue of the foster crisis.
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And it wasn't just that they adopted 77 kids out of foster care. They adopted some of the hardest
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kids to place. They purposely chose the kids that were having the toughest time finding a home, right?
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Yes. Then that, I think that was one of the things that hooked me personally was, I think everybody,
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I mean, you hear that. It's one thing if you want a baby, which is fine, but it's a different thing.
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And so they purposely asked for the kids that were difficult to place that nobody wanted,
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which is usually kids who've experienced severe trauma, which some had. And sibling sets is another
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one, you know, it's really best to keep siblings together. And so they don't like to split them
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up, which is amazing, but it's hard to find homes for three, four or five kids, you know, and then
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teenagers is another one. It's, it's really tough. There's a lot of fear associated with that. And so
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they just, they took on the toughest things and just tough through it as a community.
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And as you were researching this movie, because you weren't just looking into this particular story,
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you learned about the foster care system in general, the adoption process in general,
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working with social workers. And I know that you've adopted two of your own kids, but is there
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anything that you learned in this research process that you didn't already know?
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Yeah, this is, I'm so glad you asked because this is, so two things going on. We wanted to make a movie
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that would really stand on its own and, and entertain and do all the things that movies should do,
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but movies, no matter what you want them to do, they're going to impact you. They're going to
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change you somehow. Um, I love that about them. So this one addresses the whole issue of the foster
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care crisis, which is what we began to learn more and more about as we got into this. And some of the
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shocking things, um, are how connected the, some of the main issues we all see and are brokenhearted
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about in society, in our cities, homelessness, the overpopulated prisons, um, child trafficking,
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all of these things stem from kids who've experienced the foster system. I mean, to like,
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you just take child trafficking for one and the film sound of freedom. Amazing. It revealed this and
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brought it back to the forefront last year. And we, there's a connection. It's up to like 90%
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of the kids in America who are trafficked have spent time in the foster system.
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It's a, it's a tragedy. And so, but what excited me is that if we can go after this, then we're
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hitting all of these other things. And it encouraged me because I think we all want these things to
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change that are just difficult to deal with, you know, in and of themselves, it's hard to know what
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do you, what do you do about child trafficking? Right. Really tough as a, as an average person.
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Right. So this is the way you, you deal with the foster system. You are going to cut off this river
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You know, we've had a mom on before, and we've talked about this a couple times, that Christians,
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at least in some states, are having a hard time getting approved for adoption because they are
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told if you don't align with the progressive ideological position on LGBTQ issues, if you do
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not affirm that this child thinks that they're the opposite sex, then you cannot adopt. So it's
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almost like the state in some cases would rather these kids languish in foster care than be adopted
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by loving Christian parents. And even if that's not in every state, that may be enough to intimidate
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some Christian parents away from, you know, I don't even want to get involved. So how do Christians
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navigate that? That's a tough issue because, you know, we all have friends probably on both sides
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of this. And so for me personally, it's, it's difficult to get into this because I know what
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this can sound like and mean, but the reality is there is a massive crisis going on right now.
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And just in America, you have 400,000 kids in the system and you have a hundred thousand kids that
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need homes. And at least two thirds of the people who are willing to care for these kids, take them
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in and become family over two thirds are Christians. And, and I speak to this because I am a Christian
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and because the story is about a church is it's about Bennett chapel, this community that that's the
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core of it. And because of that, and the fact that the American church, there's all kinds of things that
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can help kids that are in these kinds of situations. And we should all care. But when you think about
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the American church, it's the most connected network of support that there is for all kinds of things,
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you know, and, and when you think about the care of the children themselves, and then even trying to
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prevent kids from going into systems, you need a resource like that. You cannot hope to address
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a crisis like this, reverse a crisis like this, end a crisis like this, if you don't utilize that kind
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of a resource. So yes, it's a real problem. If, you know, if you're going to cut off that amount of
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people, because of the disagreement on this issue, then you are going to create an ocean of problems. And it will
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happen very quickly, you're going to say to many, many people, you're no longer going to be able to help, you
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can't foster, you can't adopt. We know of one case in Vermont. And, you know, it's a couple, there's two pastor
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couples that we, we read about, and they're facing this right now. And, you know, this, this, the Gantz
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was one couple that adopted a baby that was addicted to drugs, which is common in their area. They wanted
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to do this again, from what I understand. And there were some new regulations passed in Vermont that
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basically suddenly cut them out of the deal. And they said, you can no longer do this. If you can't
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sign this paper that says you will abide by Vermont's view on this issue. And so we're starting to see this
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come up around the country. And, and the reason why we have to deal with it is like I said, you know, we,
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when the, when the grownups argue about this, then all the kids suffer. So while we're all trying to figure this
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out, kids are being abused. They're going from home to home to home.
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I mean, in Los Angeles, when we, we fostered a 13 year old girl and she explained her experience
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at this group home. And every night her roommate would go outside, be picked up by a trafficker to
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go party and be dropped off afterwards every night. And this girl's so wounded. She, she did this
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willingly and California in effect emancipates children at 13. Certain things can happen. And you can
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basically say, I don't want to be with my family anymore if you're brought into the system. And so
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the caregiver's hands are tied because, um, they've made decisions that prevent them from touching
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children or preventing them from going into vehicles or situations like that. Physically, they can't stop
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these kids. So you can know that's a trafficker. They're getting in a car. I, as their, um, as their
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protector, their guardian, I can't stop them from doing this. So these laws are insane and we're
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just feeding this darkness. So yeah, we've got to speak up. It's kind of like, um, there's a real
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problem here and as difficult as it is, as it is, because we love so many different kinds of people.
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So we just can't, we can't stand by and not do anything about that, especially when we're making
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a movie that is intended to inspire thousands and thousands of other Bennett chapels to step up and
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do the same thing. And I just want to clarify too, that in places, at least like, uh, Washington and
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Oregon, the law is not even that if you have a child who identifies a certain way that you have to do X,
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Y, Z, it is that even before you are even matched with a child, you have to agree that in some
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hypothetical scenario, you would affirm that that child is the opposite sex, wants to take cross-sex
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hormones, uh, whatever it is. And so just the simple fact of what you're saying without even
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getting into that conversation, you're talking about potentially cutting out over two thirds of
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the people who are adopting kids out of foster care right now. And we already have too many kids in
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foster care. I mean, the number could be bigger. Those are the numbers that I've read, but
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that's a really important point because it's not as if we're talking about a child who's telling you
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I'm LGBTQ, I have these feelings, whatever it is. But when you're saying to people, uh, here's a baby
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and you just need to affirm our view on this over here. And this baby has, you know, no sense of that
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right now. Right. So, and, and, and some of these things get more concerning when it's well-intentioned
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to, to be put under the umbrella of safety, right? You want all kids to be safe. You want them to be
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placed in safe families and with safe caregivers and parents. But if that disagreement causes you to be
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considered unsafe, then what does that, what does that say about you as a parent of your own biological
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kids? Because when you're not safe with your own biological kids, what can they do? So this, you
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know, this is something to, to look at right now. Again, we don't want kids to suffer while we're all
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trying to figure this stuff out. And, but that's a problem when, when you're talking to, to, uh, about a
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problem like this as extensive as it is, it's not a small thing. And that could be devastating.
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But you believe that Christian parents should step up regardless.
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Yeah. I think we're at a point where it's being forced upon us and it's not just Christians.
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And this is something that affects anyone who just disagrees with, um, with this issue,
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but it does infringe on our, on a religious freedom and, and those kinds of things. But it's,
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it's really anyone who just doesn't agree with, um, you know, what these different states are saying
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has been figured out and they've decided is going to become law. And that's, yes, I think rather than
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trying to deal with this way down the line, when it's too late, like we often do with things,
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we need to look at it right now and say, listen, let's agree to disagree
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and not let kids suffer and move this conversation to the side because it's, it's only going to get
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worse. When you think about the, the prevalence of trafficking today and the suffering around us
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and families breaking down, this is just not appropriate. It's not okay.
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Right. Um, another inhibition that I think a lot of people have to adopting is the cost of it,
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but the people that you interacted with at this church in Possum Trot, we're not rich, were they?
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Right. Now this is another favorite feature of mine is it's an everyday average community of people.
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Um, nobody's wealthy. Many are struggling financially and it, they just took this on regardless.
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They didn't, so many of us look at this issue and think I will consider getting involved once A, B and C
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happen. And money is obviously one of the most concerning things because of the cost it takes to,
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to raise a child. But what I first want people to understand is
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the cost actually isn't there. If it's from the foster system, there's stipends available usually
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for, uh, families who want to foster and adopt out of the foster system. If you're talking about
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international adoption, then that's where it gets more costly and it can be significant, but it's not,
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it's not an issue in the foster system. So that can be taken off your list if, if you're wondering.
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Um, but this, this community, yeah, they led the way they aren't specially trained. They, they weren't,
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you know, child welfare workers. These are just average folks and they made this work as a
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community. I think that's the main reason why it worked is that they just, um, they knew how to
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be community and family already. Yeah. That's the environment that they brought these kids into.
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Tell us a little bit more about that. What did that community look like in our highly individualized
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society? Even those of us who are Christians, who are a part of a church, we don't always look like
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the early church, giving each other everything we have, making sure that no one has a need.
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And yet it sounds like this church was exactly like the church in Acts 2. So what did you learn
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True. And I, this brings up, um, one of the issues we talked a lot about when, when developing
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this, my wife and I, and, and, uh, Joe Knittig, who was executive producer on this and brought the funding, um, was
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authenticity. How do we bring this story to the screen authentically and let it become the tool that can
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reverse the foster crisis in America? So we were, we were really committed. Like I said earlier, we just felt, um,
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compelled and overcome by this. So we ended up after a few years of developing it, the screenplay,
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we just kind of felt like we hadn't hit bottom, like in a good way. We hadn't hit the deep parts
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of the story and gotten what we needed. So we ended up moving, Rebecca and I moved our family to East
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Texas and, uh, we don't live in Haustentrop, but we moved near it so that we could go to church with
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them and just spend a lot more time with them rather than the typical, um, you know, research meetings
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and things like that. So we, we live close there. I've actually preached a couple of times there.
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He's had me preach, uh, Bishop Martin has, and, but it gave us such a different perspective.
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And we were able to see the things you're talking about, you know, with, um, that, that bond that
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goes back generations, especially in a lot of these Southern, you know, communities that are back in the,
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uh, in the, uh, small town areas. There's such community. Um, the family bond is strong. The church
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is often that core gathering place. And, uh, so it was critical to their success and we were really
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inspired by it. And the few times I think we've experienced it, you know, in our own history,
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Rebecca and I, um, those are the best church experiences that we have. You know, when you
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actually feel like you know people and they're sharing burdens and it probably was the hardest
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thing about our adoptions is that we didn't have that strong community. You know, it was,
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you know, you're often feel alone and, and sometimes all you need is a break and it's tough to find that.
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So these, this community had that part figured out.
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And this is a predominantly black church, correct? Yeah. And I haven't seen that. I just
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haven't seen that story. You see a lot of stories of white evangelicals adopting statistically. That's,
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uh, often how it is. I think this is a remarkable story that I just haven't seen told before.
00:23:48.560
Yeah, I know. It's, uh, so started in 1997 and within, I'm just going to say five years or so,
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um, it had hit the news because of this. It was so unique and it hit the local news. And then before
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long, it was on Oprah, good morning, America, all of these news outlets picked it up. And I think
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everyone's seeing the same thing. You know, it's one thing for a pastor and a wife or in his wife
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or, uh, um, handful of couples to get excited about this, which you see all over the country.
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But when a whole community says, we're going to do something about this, I mean, it's remarkable. So
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77, that's not the biggest number in the world, but when you think about where that was in a few
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a community of a few hundred, it's unbelievable. And that had to have unsettled so much of the
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normal state of affairs for them, um, just with families and in every way. So yeah, it was,
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it's powerful. It's, I think what will make this change possible.
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And like you said, it was covered. I saw that people magazine covered it like back in 2012,
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but I, I hadn't heard the story. At least I don't remember hearing the story.
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So I think a lot of people are probably like me, they were, you know, young when this was
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happening and just maybe not paying attention. And now they're going to be hearing this for the
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first time. And what do you hope comes out of this?
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I hope we have, um, overall, I hope the foster crisis ends in America. I mean, that's the most
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practical, um, measurable thing is that we see the foster crisis and we see every one of those
00:25:29.400
children find a home. And beyond that, I hope we see at least the church Christians who claim
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to follow Jesus, who have read the scriptures that say, care for the orphans and the widows
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and keep yourself undefiled from the world. You have this, this responsibility to be like Jesus
00:25:53.200
and to do the things that Jesus did. So I want and pray and hope that we as followers of Jesus
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step into this in a way that we have never seen so that this never comes back. I mean,
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we should have homes for every child in this country. And when that was kind of left to the
00:26:14.760
government to do, we backed off and we forgot about it. We don't think about it anymore. We
00:26:20.800
don't think about these children that are right in our cities, right down the street from us.
00:26:25.880
So I want, I hope that they come back to our minds and that we remember who we are.
00:26:32.060
We realize and embrace that we are meant to actually go into the darkest places in this earth.
00:26:39.360
And if it costs us our comfort and our stability and all of the things that we hold so tightly to
00:26:46.700
as Americans and just humans, I mean, nobody wants to be uncomfortable, but Jesus, he showed us the way
00:26:54.040
to do these kinds of things. It's not just a spiritual change that he was after. It's
00:27:00.760
affect the world around you. And I think that's possible. I think when people see this movie,
00:27:06.960
you're going to feel it because it's, it's, uh, it's beyond me. It's beyond anyone involved.
00:27:12.020
Like something's happening that is so exciting and powerful. Um, I hear the reports and how people
00:27:20.420
are moved. These are all things we've been praying for that there would just be a move
00:27:24.580
way beyond a movie that would just compel people. And so I just want people to know that, that it's
00:27:30.500
not, it's not like here, take some medicine and suffer through this and, you know, come on,
00:27:36.220
do the right thing. It's like, no, we know we ought to do. We need the encouragement. God's with us.
00:27:43.840
And I think this film in and of itself, you're going to have, uh, a really powerful experience.
00:27:49.200
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code Allie. Can you give us an example of the generational impact that this had? One of the,
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one of the children that was taken in that was previously unwanted. How did that life change?
00:29:48.520
So we, um, focus on a girl named Terry. She's one of the Martins daughters, adopted daughters. And, uh,
00:29:58.420
she kind of represents, uh, many, you know, many around, around the world really, but in this nation,
00:30:04.620
we kind of made her that avatar and she went through real hell as a little girl was sexually abused,
00:30:14.060
was abused. Um, her mother ended up killing her sister and just really, really terrible situation
00:30:21.900
and tragic. And so she came to the Martins so wounded that she acted like a cat for a while,
00:30:30.740
which you'll see in the movie. And it was her way of just coping with this, this reality and new
00:30:35.520
people and new situations. So we've gotten to know her. She was actually one of the first that we got
00:30:40.960
to meet and, you know, the story we wanted to tell for the kid's perspective was hers. And we were
00:30:47.060
really hoping that she would be okay with it. So we did get to know her and she's a remarkable
00:30:53.440
woman. I mean, she has come through all of what I just said and, you know, becoming a part of that
00:31:00.780
community and weathering all the changes and the healing, the things that are so difficult, um,
00:31:08.120
and come to a point where she's, she's totally different. You know, she's a mom, she's amazing.
00:31:15.680
And she's talented. She's, uh, got an incredible management managerial gift. So she manages
00:31:23.380
restaurants and, uh, uh, she's, she's managed, uh, convenience stores too. So she's really
00:31:30.220
responsible. So it's a, it's a great success story and, uh, they're not all like that. I mean,
00:31:34.720
there's kids that are struggling within it as you'd expect, but you know, it's, it's so powerful
00:31:42.620
that they have this community with arms open for them and they know it and they're always there.
00:31:48.920
And so for those who are struggling, it's, we've seen some go to some deep, terrible places in their
00:31:56.340
recovery and then come out and, you know, and another one is Nino who's, who went through a lot
00:32:01.080
and that was the first child adopted. And he, um, he's doing amazing, beautiful family. I mean,
00:32:08.000
it's just incredible. Love that guy. And he's, he's thriving. So yeah, it's, it's really nice to
00:32:14.780
see those things. Yeah. Um, the ending sequence right before the credits is really incredible as
00:32:23.340
you are seeing the parallel between the actors and then the real people that they were, um,
00:32:30.620
that they were portraying. And it's such a powerful testimony, such a powerful testimony to what
00:32:36.600
the Lord has done. Um, how have you seen the lives of those who adopted these kids change?
00:32:45.560
Yeah. Everybody who adopts is going to change. And that is one of the unexpected things. You know,
00:32:52.640
you kind of think I'm just going to help this poor kid, which is partly true, but you go through
00:32:59.980
so much. I mean, you're going to become a much better person. You're refined in this process.
00:33:06.320
The difficulty of parenting traumatized kids is real. And we wanted to make sure we were honest
00:33:14.840
about that in this movie. So you'll see it. Um, but it's not something that has to, um, overwhelm you.
00:33:25.660
And none of these kids were returned to the foster system. They, they powered through this and
00:33:32.180
became even more resilient. And just what you learn from caring for kids that aren't your own. And
00:33:39.640
it's a, it's like a different kind of love in the sense of the way in, you know, you're strangers
00:33:46.700
and then you become family. You're not just born into it. So there's these interesting dynamics,
00:33:54.340
painful dynamics that happen. And so you're definitely stretched whether you want to or know
00:34:00.260
it or not, you are going to be stretched. And I think in the end, you just become hopefully more
00:34:05.080
like Jesus, you know, I mean, some days, I don't know, you feel like you're the opposite, but it's,
00:34:09.880
it's, you know, it's part of it. There's something in this for us, which is what I think
00:34:14.120
the kind of like the broader goal of benefit that God has for this issue is as we care for these kids,
00:34:24.200
we change the church changes. We become more like him.
00:34:27.740
Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think of that verse as you're talking in Ephesians that like we were once
00:34:34.140
strangers and aliens, those of us who are far off have now been brought near by the blood of
00:34:39.760
Christ. We have been as Gentiles adopted into God's family by the blood of Christ, only by his grace
00:34:47.120
and earthly adoption is such a beautiful example of that or it's such a beautiful earthly metaphor for
00:34:53.960
that. And we get to see through that earthly relationship, what God does for us and how much
00:35:01.540
he loves us. And it's such a beautiful thing for Christians to be able to participate in just like
00:35:07.920
any kind of parenthood sanctifies you and teaches you about God, about how much God loves us, that he
00:35:14.460
would have sent his only son to die for us. I, I would not do that. I wouldn't sacrifice one of my
00:35:20.740
children for that. Wow. God must've loved us so much that he would have sacrificed that.
00:35:25.740
But then adoption, you get to see a whole other layer of the gospel and God's love. And I think
00:35:31.360
that's like, even if you don't have someone in the movie saying that exact thing, that is depicted
00:35:37.700
very artfully in this movie. And whether someone watches this and they're a Christian and it affirms,
00:35:45.380
you know, their beliefs about adoption and the Bible already, or whether they are coming
00:35:49.320
at this as someone who's not a Christian, they're going to see the gospel of death.
00:35:53.600
Yeah. You know, when, when I think about how much we as Christians critique the world around us,
00:36:02.460
which I'm not saying is wrong, we need to do that. But what you're saying is something we forget all
00:36:07.640
the time. And we forget that reality that we are fallen, broken, messed up people, and hopefully
00:36:14.940
becoming less and less that as we go on. But we need to be really careful. We have to hold on to
00:36:24.120
that reality. We have to understand where we've come from, that we have come from death. We have come
00:36:29.720
as followers of Jesus, we have been renewed. It's his mercy that we're even alive and breathing.
00:36:37.020
And so we have a responsibility to really look carefully at our lives. And what we say is
00:36:47.760
important that we actually live that we say, we believe things. And when there's not, when it's
00:36:54.180
incongruent with how we live, then the world looks on and goes, why should we take you seriously?
00:37:00.440
And certainly, why should we take your criticism seriously? If you, you know, take abortion,
00:37:09.260
for example, it's like, you, you want children to not be aborted. And I see these as separate
00:37:15.680
things, but the world looks at it and goes, well, then why are there's, are these children over here
00:37:20.120
that are alive suffering? So you must not care about life, really. You just care about this one
00:37:25.660
thing. And it's an example of how we have got to look at all the different things that we are meant
00:37:31.940
to go and be a part of and really be a part of them. If we're going to really, I think,
00:37:38.940
uh, be living out our faith appropriately and expect for anyone to take us seriously when we're,
00:37:46.480
we're talking about these really difficult issues that, you know, people who don't believe like us
00:37:52.740
don't see the same way. So I'm, I'm urging us as, as, as followers of Jesus to lose our lives for him.
00:38:02.840
I mean, this is, those are the scary verses we don't talk about, you know, if you want to have life,
00:38:09.560
then lose your life and follow me. If you don't, you're going to lose your life. If you don't follow
00:38:16.500
Jesus, you don't gain life, you know? So that's, that's important right now. It's the spirit of this
00:38:23.780
movie. It's get up and do what you believe you ought to do, what you were made to do. And as we
00:38:31.660
address all the different things in our nation, and it's coming from that, when we've lived and embraced
00:38:38.640
pain and suffering, then maybe people will take a little more seriously. And that's real love. I
00:38:46.660
think that's the love that people want to actually see. So it's there in this movie.
00:38:56.480
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I definitely think that the movie will compel people in that way. Of course, there will always
00:39:59.040
be people because they don't know the gospel and they don't know Christ who will malign
00:40:09.860
And I think about just the history of Christianity, and I've talked about it so many times on this show,
00:40:15.840
but there's a book called When Children Became People by Owen Backey that he wrote, I think, 20 years
00:40:21.840
ago now, but it's about pagan Greece in Rome and how children were subjugated. They were treated as
00:40:28.120
sex slaves. The infant mortality rate was so high that they didn't want to get too attached to their
00:40:34.080
kids, and so they would treat them in all sorts of horrible ways. At best, they were seen as maybe
00:40:39.620
inheritors of wealth if you had wealth, and then at worst, they were seen as basically animals.
00:40:45.840
And in Rome, they didn't have the physical power that gave them value. In Greece, they didn't have
00:40:51.200
the intellectual power that gave them value, and so they were seen as less than. And this historian,
00:40:57.120
Owen Backey, the reason it's titled When Children Became People is because when Christians came on the
00:41:03.260
scene, they changed how the world saw children. When Christians introduced this message of Imago Dei,
00:41:11.840
and we are all equally, as you said, dead in sin apart from Christ. We all need, by grace through
00:41:17.480
faith, to be made alive in Him. That means the widow, the poor person, the sick, the disabled,
00:41:22.400
the child, that person all has value. Those people all have value, and they actually need more help
00:41:28.940
than less. And that revolutionized how the world, over time, saw people. That's why Christians
00:41:37.940
invented orphanages. That's why we have been at the forefront of adoption and helping these
00:41:44.200
vulnerable children and vulnerable populations. And we need to see our task as the common task of the
00:41:53.020
Christian. What Christians have been doing for 2,000 years, that baton is still being passed to
00:41:58.580
Christians today. And in an increasingly secular world, where we see the prevalence of abortion,
00:42:04.980
where we see the sexualization of children, the objectification of children, like Christians still
00:42:10.240
have the responsibility, just like we did in ancient Greece and Rome, to say, no, those people are made in
00:42:16.080
the image of God. And we are going to, as you said, through our actions, show that they have dignity
00:42:22.640
and worth. Yeah, I love it. That's exactly right. And I don't mean that we can't have the life that
00:42:32.800
America allows for. I mean, what America has done historically in this world is incomprehensible.
00:42:40.980
The good that has been done to the world because of freedom and the ability to be involved as an
00:42:48.320
individual and to create companies and organizations that can go out and do the things that we often
00:42:53.620
just leave to nations to do and leaders, political leaders. When you decentralize that, it has caused
00:43:00.860
immeasurable benefit. And so I don't suggest we live like ascetics and throw ashes on ourselves every
00:43:08.340
morning. You know, it's like, but there's the mentality we, I want us to have, I hope that we
00:43:14.340
will gain where it's been lost or becomes where it's become dormant, where yes, we have those things,
00:43:21.020
but our, our mind, our heart, our thoughts are occupied by the pain of others enough to do
00:43:28.120
something about it, where we're consistently engaged in the things around us. We need to raise
00:43:33.720
healthy, good families. We need to have fun doing that. It, that's all a part of it. But where
00:43:40.560
we miss it is when that, that swallows us up and we're too busy and we're too tired and we're too
00:43:47.780
bored. We're too, we're just disinterested. And then all of these problems around us spin out of
00:43:53.360
control and we step back and go, what happened? Well, we're not engaged when we're not engaged,
00:43:59.720
then that's what will continue to happen. And so that's the, that's the, that's the challenge we
00:44:05.160
have as people who are living in a fluent nation. We have that challenge. We've got to remember those
00:44:12.600
who are around us that are in need and really do something about it. So it's intense spiritual life
00:44:18.520
with intense practical work that I would love to see result from this film.
00:44:24.820
Yep. And that's what this story is about. Amazing things happen when Christians refuse to mind their
00:44:29.900
own business. And this community could have said, we've got our own problems. We've got our own
00:44:34.580
problems. The last thing we need is to take on more burdens. That's how the world sees it. And yet they
00:44:41.020
said to these kids, no, your problems are my problems now. And that's so powerful. So where can people
00:44:48.620
So you can actually see it today. And when you see the movie, you're going to be able to get
00:44:54.440
involved as well. It's not just raise awareness and walk away. It's raise awareness, go see the
00:44:59.900
movie, tell people about it. You're going to laugh. You are going to cry. You're going to have an
00:45:03.800
experience. And then there's going to be a chance to connect to a website that can get you involved.
00:45:09.140
You can actually help your church get involved like Bennett Chapel did. You can learn about fostering
00:45:15.280
and adopting and get involved in that. And then you can learn and get involved with prevention
00:45:21.520
through an organization called Care Portal that connects communities, people, churches,
00:45:27.580
schools, other things to the needs in their areas. So that's available after the movie. If you stick
00:45:35.320
around for the end, you'll be able to be connected immediately to getting involved.
00:45:39.100
Awesome. Well, thank you so much. And we'll provide the link for everything in the description of this
00:45:44.100
episode so people can easily check it out. Josh, I appreciate you. I appreciate the work that y'all
00:45:49.480
have done on this. Thank you. It really is amazing. It's inspiring. It really is. This is such a good
00:45:54.860
movie. Great acting, well-made, amazing storytelling, and it should be the MO of Christians to take upon
00:46:03.640
the burdens of their community. So thank you so much. Love it. Thank you so much for having us,