Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - July 22, 2024


Ep 1037 ｜ The Government Doesn’t Want Christians to Adopt ｜ Guest： Josh Weigel


Episode Stats

Length

46 minutes

Words per Minute

163.27055

Word Count

7,628

Sentence Count

523

Misogynist Sentences

3

Hate Speech Sentences

19


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 The Sound of Hope is an incredible movie about a church in Possum Trot, Texas, who took on
00:00:08.720 77 foster kids, adopting them into their home simply because the Holy Spirit compelled them
00:00:18.020 to do so. And now their story is reaching so many people who need to see what it looks like
00:00:26.340 to live out the Christian command to take care of the orphan. We have got the producer, director
00:00:33.780 of the movie with us today, Josh Weigel. It's just an incredible story. This is a compelling
00:00:42.260 interview too that really educated and encouraged me. Before we get to the conversation, let me show
00:00:48.640 you this really moving clip from the movie. Here's that one. When people say that they want to adopt,
00:00:55.380 they don't usually mean kids like Terry. They're just afraid. That's all. Had to get your eyes
00:01:04.660 on other things. But see, we got the eyes on this right now. And this is all that we see.
00:01:12.300 We got over 20, 20 families that want kids just like Terry. And any other child that need
00:01:20.480 a home. And that's just a little neck of the woods. You think about that. We got churches
00:01:28.620 on every corner. Every single one. And each and every one of them people, they don't heard the
00:01:34.900 same thing. There shouldn't be a child without a home. We can turn this whole thing around.
00:01:43.600 So amazing. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to
00:01:48.980 GoodRanchers.com. Use code Allie at checkout. That's GoodRanchers.com. Code Allie.
00:02:04.280 Josh, thanks so much for taking the time to join us. Can you tell everyone who you are,
00:02:08.200 what you do? Yes. I'm Josh Weigel. I was a director, producer, and writer with my wife.
00:02:13.820 She and I produced and wrote the film, Son of Hope, The Story of Possentrot. So glad to be here.
00:02:18.940 Really glad. Appreciate you. Yeah. Tell us how you got into producing this movie.
00:02:24.260 Well, you know, we've been in the business for a long time. I think we're in LA for 23 years,
00:02:29.740 starting in 1998. And, you know, we're working on a feature film called The Butterfly Circus based on a
00:02:37.920 short film we did back in 2010 and making really exciting progress, but we just couldn't quite get
00:02:45.560 the right deal to work out. And then we came across the story, partly because my wife and I adopted two
00:02:53.480 of our kids. And so we were kind of already in that world and living it. And Rebecca works extensively
00:03:01.800 in Los Angeles, connecting churches to this issue and trying to get more people involved.
00:03:08.780 And so along the way, she needed a speaker, found Bishop Martin. And we kind of remembered the story
00:03:15.680 had happened about this community somewhere that adopted all these kids. And long story short,
00:03:20.460 she called him up. And within days, you know, we had decided this could be, you know, an important
00:03:26.900 movie. And my thinking was, we just got to figure out how to make it a movie because it's a big story.
00:03:34.560 Yeah. And it's a lot. So it took a little while, but we immediately felt like compelled to do this.
00:03:39.980 And we left everything that we were working on just to focus singularly on this at that time.
00:03:45.280 And obviously people are going to watch the movie, which came out on July 4th to get all of the
00:03:51.840 details about the story. But give us a summary. Why was this such a powerful testimony that you
00:03:58.540 guys wanted to bring to the screen?
00:04:00.080 Love to. Yeah. So very briefly, First Lady Donna Martin went through some tough times losing her mom.
00:04:09.560 And through that process, she kind of came to a place with God where she felt like he was telling
00:04:15.660 her to give back. And this is the wife of the pastor. Yes. She's the wife of Reverend Martin,
00:04:23.060 who was Bishop Martin nowadays, but back then it was Reverend Martin. So she felt like she was supposed
00:04:29.200 to start adopting. She knew nothing about this and looked into it. And before long, they had convinced
00:04:36.300 22 other families to join them in adopting kids out of the foster system. And they ended up adopting 77
00:04:42.660 kids in this little tiny rural town, East Texas. I mean, it's not even an actual town. It's just a region
00:04:49.400 with a few hundred people in it. But they took on this monumental task with just courage and,
00:04:59.320 you know, they dove right in. So it was powerful because they were such an example. And I want to
00:05:06.280 understand how that worked and how that could do more to the broader issue of the foster crisis.
00:05:17.380 And it wasn't just that they adopted 77 kids out of foster care. They adopted some of the hardest
00:05:25.340 kids to place. They purposely chose the kids that were having the toughest time finding a home, right?
00:05:32.000 Yes. Then that, I think that was one of the things that hooked me personally was, I think everybody,
00:05:36.700 I mean, you hear that. It's one thing if you want a baby, which is fine, but it's a different thing.
00:05:43.060 And so they purposely asked for the kids that were difficult to place that nobody wanted,
00:05:47.340 which is usually kids who've experienced severe trauma, which some had. And sibling sets is another
00:05:56.600 one, you know, it's really best to keep siblings together. And so they don't like to split them
00:06:02.300 up, which is amazing, but it's hard to find homes for three, four or five kids, you know, and then
00:06:07.380 teenagers is another one. It's, it's really tough. There's a lot of fear associated with that. And so
00:06:12.800 they just, they took on the toughest things and just tough through it as a community.
00:06:19.660 And as you were researching this movie, because you weren't just looking into this particular story,
00:06:24.300 you learned about the foster care system in general, the adoption process in general,
00:06:28.440 working with social workers. And I know that you've adopted two of your own kids, but is there
00:06:32.940 anything that you learned in this research process that you didn't already know?
00:06:36.720 Yeah, this is, I'm so glad you asked because this is, so two things going on. We wanted to make a movie
00:06:42.060 that would really stand on its own and, and entertain and do all the things that movies should do,
00:06:48.100 but movies, no matter what you want them to do, they're going to impact you. They're going to
00:06:54.080 change you somehow. Um, I love that about them. So this one addresses the whole issue of the foster
00:07:02.180 care crisis, which is what we began to learn more and more about as we got into this. And some of the
00:07:08.620 shocking things, um, are how connected the, some of the main issues we all see and are brokenhearted
00:07:17.460 about in society, in our cities, homelessness, the overpopulated prisons, um, child trafficking,
00:07:24.840 all of these things stem from kids who've experienced the foster system. I mean, to like,
00:07:32.340 you just take child trafficking for one and the film sound of freedom. Amazing. It revealed this and
00:07:38.820 brought it back to the forefront last year. And we, there's a connection. It's up to like 90%
00:07:45.720 of the kids in America who are trafficked have spent time in the foster system.
00:07:52.260 It's a, it's a tragedy. And so, but what excited me is that if we can go after this, then we're
00:07:57.840 hitting all of these other things. And it encouraged me because I think we all want these things to
00:08:01.720 change that are just difficult to deal with, you know, in and of themselves, it's hard to know what
00:08:05.780 do you, what do you do about child trafficking? Right. Really tough as a, as an average person.
00:08:10.360 Right. So this is the way you, you deal with the foster system. You are going to cut off this river
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00:09:31.760 You know, we've had a mom on before, and we've talked about this a couple times, that Christians,
00:09:38.560 at least in some states, are having a hard time getting approved for adoption because they are
00:09:45.440 told if you don't align with the progressive ideological position on LGBTQ issues, if you do
00:09:53.060 not affirm that this child thinks that they're the opposite sex, then you cannot adopt. So it's
00:09:58.640 almost like the state in some cases would rather these kids languish in foster care than be adopted
00:10:05.280 by loving Christian parents. And even if that's not in every state, that may be enough to intimidate
00:10:12.120 some Christian parents away from, you know, I don't even want to get involved. So how do Christians
00:10:18.680 navigate that? That's a tough issue because, you know, we all have friends probably on both sides
00:10:26.960 of this. And so for me personally, it's, it's difficult to get into this because I know what
00:10:33.720 this can sound like and mean, but the reality is there is a massive crisis going on right now.
00:10:42.520 And just in America, you have 400,000 kids in the system and you have a hundred thousand kids that
00:10:47.640 need homes. And at least two thirds of the people who are willing to care for these kids, take them
00:10:55.420 in and become family over two thirds are Christians. And, and I speak to this because I am a Christian
00:11:02.460 and because the story is about a church is it's about Bennett chapel, this community that that's the
00:11:09.460 core of it. And because of that, and the fact that the American church, there's all kinds of things that
00:11:16.300 can help kids that are in these kinds of situations. And we should all care. But when you think about
00:11:23.940 the American church, it's the most connected network of support that there is for all kinds of things,
00:11:33.260 you know, and, and when you think about the care of the children themselves, and then even trying to
00:11:40.160 prevent kids from going into systems, you need a resource like that. You cannot hope to address
00:11:48.840 a crisis like this, reverse a crisis like this, end a crisis like this, if you don't utilize that kind
00:11:55.240 of a resource. So yes, it's a real problem. If, you know, if you're going to cut off that amount of
00:12:04.220 people, because of the disagreement on this issue, then you are going to create an ocean of problems. And it will
00:12:13.600 happen very quickly, you're going to say to many, many people, you're no longer going to be able to help, you
00:12:19.900 can't foster, you can't adopt. We know of one case in Vermont. And, you know, it's a couple, there's two pastor
00:12:26.200 couples that we, we read about, and they're facing this right now. And, you know, this, this, the Gantz
00:12:33.360 was one couple that adopted a baby that was addicted to drugs, which is common in their area. They wanted
00:12:40.760 to do this again, from what I understand. And there were some new regulations passed in Vermont that
00:12:46.500 basically suddenly cut them out of the deal. And they said, you can no longer do this. If you can't
00:12:51.380 sign this paper that says you will abide by Vermont's view on this issue. And so we're starting to see this
00:13:01.260 come up around the country. And, and the reason why we have to deal with it is like I said, you know, we,
00:13:10.060 when the, when the grownups argue about this, then all the kids suffer. So while we're all trying to figure this
00:13:17.040 out, kids are being abused. They're going from home to home to home.
00:13:21.380 I mean, in Los Angeles, when we, we fostered a 13 year old girl and she explained her experience
00:13:27.760 at this group home. And every night her roommate would go outside, be picked up by a trafficker to
00:13:33.200 go party and be dropped off afterwards every night. And this girl's so wounded. She, she did this
00:13:41.940 willingly and California in effect emancipates children at 13. Certain things can happen. And you can
00:13:49.840 basically say, I don't want to be with my family anymore if you're brought into the system. And so
00:13:54.440 the caregiver's hands are tied because, um, they've made decisions that prevent them from touching
00:14:02.600 children or preventing them from going into vehicles or situations like that. Physically, they can't stop
00:14:06.860 these kids. So you can know that's a trafficker. They're getting in a car. I, as their, um, as their
00:14:13.540 protector, their guardian, I can't stop them from doing this. So these laws are insane and we're
00:14:19.740 just feeding this darkness. So yeah, we've got to speak up. It's kind of like, um, there's a real
00:14:26.040 problem here and as difficult as it is, as it is, because we love so many different kinds of people.
00:14:32.700 So we just can't, we can't stand by and not do anything about that, especially when we're making
00:14:38.820 a movie that is intended to inspire thousands and thousands of other Bennett chapels to step up and
00:14:46.200 do the same thing. And I just want to clarify too, that in places, at least like, uh, Washington and
00:14:52.340 Oregon, the law is not even that if you have a child who identifies a certain way that you have to do X,
00:15:00.200 Y, Z, it is that even before you are even matched with a child, you have to agree that in some
00:15:05.820 hypothetical scenario, you would affirm that that child is the opposite sex, wants to take cross-sex
00:15:13.380 hormones, uh, whatever it is. And so just the simple fact of what you're saying without even
00:15:18.400 getting into that conversation, you're talking about potentially cutting out over two thirds of
00:15:23.180 the people who are adopting kids out of foster care right now. And we already have too many kids in
00:15:28.680 foster care. I mean, the number could be bigger. Those are the numbers that I've read, but
00:15:32.000 that's a really important point because it's not as if we're talking about a child who's telling you
00:15:36.420 I'm LGBTQ, I have these feelings, whatever it is. But when you're saying to people, uh, here's a baby
00:15:45.200 and you just need to affirm our view on this over here. And this baby has, you know, no sense of that
00:15:53.560 right now. Right. So, and, and, and some of these things get more concerning when it's well-intentioned
00:16:01.740 to, to be put under the umbrella of safety, right? You want all kids to be safe. You want them to be
00:16:07.260 placed in safe families and with safe caregivers and parents. But if that disagreement causes you to be
00:16:16.900 considered unsafe, then what does that, what does that say about you as a parent of your own biological
00:16:23.940 kids? Because when you're not safe with your own biological kids, what can they do? So this, you
00:16:31.980 know, this is something to, to look at right now. Again, we don't want kids to suffer while we're all
00:16:37.660 trying to figure this stuff out. And, but that's a problem when, when you're talking to, to, uh, about a
00:16:43.280 problem like this as extensive as it is, it's not a small thing. And that could be devastating.
00:16:49.120 But you believe that Christian parents should step up regardless.
00:16:54.420 Yeah. I think we're at a point where it's being forced upon us and it's not just Christians.
00:17:01.380 And this is something that affects anyone who just disagrees with, um, with this issue,
00:17:08.160 but it does infringe on our, on a religious freedom and, and those kinds of things. But it's,
00:17:12.920 it's really anyone who just doesn't agree with, um, you know, what these different states are saying
00:17:18.760 has been figured out and they've decided is going to become law. And that's, yes, I think rather than
00:17:27.800 trying to deal with this way down the line, when it's too late, like we often do with things,
00:17:32.960 we need to look at it right now and say, listen, let's agree to disagree
00:17:35.900 and not let kids suffer and move this conversation to the side because it's, it's only going to get
00:17:43.920 worse. When you think about the, the prevalence of trafficking today and the suffering around us
00:17:50.840 and families breaking down, this is just not appropriate. It's not okay.
00:17:53.700 Right. Um, another inhibition that I think a lot of people have to adopting is the cost of it,
00:18:01.760 but the people that you interacted with at this church in Possum Trot, we're not rich, were they?
00:18:08.980 Right. Now this is another favorite feature of mine is it's an everyday average community of people.
00:18:14.760 Um, nobody's wealthy. Many are struggling financially and it, they just took this on regardless.
00:18:23.340 They didn't, so many of us look at this issue and think I will consider getting involved once A, B and C
00:18:32.680 happen. And money is obviously one of the most concerning things because of the cost it takes to,
00:18:38.800 to raise a child. But what I first want people to understand is
00:18:43.100 the cost actually isn't there. If it's from the foster system, there's stipends available usually
00:18:49.840 for, uh, families who want to foster and adopt out of the foster system. If you're talking about
00:18:55.380 international adoption, then that's where it gets more costly and it can be significant, but it's not,
00:18:59.300 it's not an issue in the foster system. So that can be taken off your list if, if you're wondering.
00:19:04.720 Um, but this, this community, yeah, they led the way they aren't specially trained. They, they weren't,
00:19:12.800 you know, child welfare workers. These are just average folks and they made this work as a
00:19:19.460 community. I think that's the main reason why it worked is that they just, um, they knew how to
00:19:25.820 be community and family already. Yeah. That's the environment that they brought these kids into.
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00:20:54.780 Tell us a little bit more about that. What did that community look like in our highly individualized
00:21:00.580 society? Even those of us who are Christians, who are a part of a church, we don't always look like
00:21:05.180 the early church, giving each other everything we have, making sure that no one has a need.
00:21:09.440 And yet it sounds like this church was exactly like the church in Acts 2. So what did you learn
00:21:14.820 about how they interacted with one another?
00:21:17.160 True. And I, this brings up, um, one of the issues we talked a lot about when, when developing
00:21:25.580 this, my wife and I, and, and, uh, Joe Knittig, who was executive producer on this and brought the funding, um, was
00:21:33.620 authenticity. How do we bring this story to the screen authentically and let it become the tool that can
00:21:42.480 reverse the foster crisis in America? So we were, we were really committed. Like I said earlier, we just felt, um,
00:21:48.300 compelled and overcome by this. So we ended up after a few years of developing it, the screenplay,
00:21:53.800 we just kind of felt like we hadn't hit bottom, like in a good way. We hadn't hit the deep parts
00:21:59.540 of the story and gotten what we needed. So we ended up moving, Rebecca and I moved our family to East
00:22:05.680 Texas and, uh, we don't live in Haustentrop, but we moved near it so that we could go to church with
00:22:11.220 them and just spend a lot more time with them rather than the typical, um, you know, research meetings
00:22:17.040 and things like that. So we, we live close there. I've actually preached a couple of times there.
00:22:22.220 He's had me preach, uh, Bishop Martin has, and, but it gave us such a different perspective.
00:22:28.160 And we were able to see the things you're talking about, you know, with, um, that, that bond that
00:22:33.800 goes back generations, especially in a lot of these Southern, you know, communities that are back in the,
00:22:39.560 uh, in the, uh, small town areas. There's such community. Um, the family bond is strong. The church
00:22:48.920 is often that core gathering place. And, uh, so it was critical to their success and we were really
00:22:58.780 inspired by it. And the few times I think we've experienced it, you know, in our own history,
00:23:06.900 Rebecca and I, um, those are the best church experiences that we have. You know, when you
00:23:11.920 actually feel like you know people and they're sharing burdens and it probably was the hardest
00:23:17.800 thing about our adoptions is that we didn't have that strong community. You know, it was,
00:23:22.900 you know, you're often feel alone and, and sometimes all you need is a break and it's tough to find that.
00:23:28.580 So these, this community had that part figured out.
00:23:31.340 And this is a predominantly black church, correct? Yeah. And I haven't seen that. I just
00:23:36.820 haven't seen that story. You see a lot of stories of white evangelicals adopting statistically. That's,
00:23:42.640 uh, often how it is. I think this is a remarkable story that I just haven't seen told before.
00:23:48.560 Yeah, I know. It's, uh, so started in 1997 and within, I'm just going to say five years or so,
00:23:55.060 um, it had hit the news because of this. It was so unique and it hit the local news. And then before
00:24:00.740 long, it was on Oprah, good morning, America, all of these news outlets picked it up. And I think
00:24:04.880 everyone's seeing the same thing. You know, it's one thing for a pastor and a wife or in his wife
00:24:10.700 or, uh, um, handful of couples to get excited about this, which you see all over the country.
00:24:17.100 But when a whole community says, we're going to do something about this, I mean, it's remarkable. So
00:24:23.360 77, that's not the biggest number in the world, but when you think about where that was in a few
00:24:28.800 a community of a few hundred, it's unbelievable. And that had to have unsettled so much of the
00:24:34.780 normal state of affairs for them, um, just with families and in every way. So yeah, it was,
00:24:41.620 it's powerful. It's, I think what will make this change possible.
00:24:47.940 And like you said, it was covered. I saw that people magazine covered it like back in 2012,
00:24:53.060 but I, I hadn't heard the story. At least I don't remember hearing the story.
00:24:56.800 So I think a lot of people are probably like me, they were, you know, young when this was
00:25:01.840 happening and just maybe not paying attention. And now they're going to be hearing this for the
00:25:06.680 first time. And what do you hope comes out of this?
00:25:11.960 I hope we have, um, overall, I hope the foster crisis ends in America. I mean, that's the most
00:25:19.260 practical, um, measurable thing is that we see the foster crisis and we see every one of those
00:25:29.400 children find a home. And beyond that, I hope we see at least the church Christians who claim
00:25:37.300 to follow Jesus, who have read the scriptures that say, care for the orphans and the widows
00:25:44.440 and keep yourself undefiled from the world. You have this, this responsibility to be like Jesus
00:25:53.200 and to do the things that Jesus did. So I want and pray and hope that we as followers of Jesus
00:26:00.940 step into this in a way that we have never seen so that this never comes back. I mean,
00:26:07.180 we should have homes for every child in this country. And when that was kind of left to the
00:26:14.760 government to do, we backed off and we forgot about it. We don't think about it anymore. We
00:26:20.800 don't think about these children that are right in our cities, right down the street from us.
00:26:25.880 So I want, I hope that they come back to our minds and that we remember who we are.
00:26:32.060 We realize and embrace that we are meant to actually go into the darkest places in this earth.
00:26:39.360 And if it costs us our comfort and our stability and all of the things that we hold so tightly to
00:26:46.700 as Americans and just humans, I mean, nobody wants to be uncomfortable, but Jesus, he showed us the way
00:26:54.040 to do these kinds of things. It's not just a spiritual change that he was after. It's
00:27:00.760 affect the world around you. And I think that's possible. I think when people see this movie,
00:27:06.960 you're going to feel it because it's, it's, uh, it's beyond me. It's beyond anyone involved.
00:27:12.020 Like something's happening that is so exciting and powerful. Um, I hear the reports and how people
00:27:20.420 are moved. These are all things we've been praying for that there would just be a move
00:27:24.580 way beyond a movie that would just compel people. And so I just want people to know that, that it's
00:27:30.500 not, it's not like here, take some medicine and suffer through this and, you know, come on,
00:27:36.220 do the right thing. It's like, no, we know we ought to do. We need the encouragement. God's with us.
00:27:43.840 And I think this film in and of itself, you're going to have, uh, a really powerful experience.
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00:29:29.820 code Allie. Can you give us an example of the generational impact that this had? One of the,
00:29:40.780 one of the children that was taken in that was previously unwanted. How did that life change?
00:29:48.520 So we, um, focus on a girl named Terry. She's one of the Martins daughters, adopted daughters. And, uh,
00:29:58.420 she kind of represents, uh, many, you know, many around, around the world really, but in this nation,
00:30:04.620 we kind of made her that avatar and she went through real hell as a little girl was sexually abused,
00:30:14.060 was abused. Um, her mother ended up killing her sister and just really, really terrible situation
00:30:21.900 and tragic. And so she came to the Martins so wounded that she acted like a cat for a while,
00:30:30.740 which you'll see in the movie. And it was her way of just coping with this, this reality and new
00:30:35.520 people and new situations. So we've gotten to know her. She was actually one of the first that we got
00:30:40.960 to meet and, you know, the story we wanted to tell for the kid's perspective was hers. And we were
00:30:47.060 really hoping that she would be okay with it. So we did get to know her and she's a remarkable
00:30:53.440 woman. I mean, she has come through all of what I just said and, you know, becoming a part of that
00:31:00.780 community and weathering all the changes and the healing, the things that are so difficult, um,
00:31:08.120 and come to a point where she's, she's totally different. You know, she's a mom, she's amazing.
00:31:15.680 And she's talented. She's, uh, got an incredible management managerial gift. So she manages
00:31:23.380 restaurants and, uh, uh, she's, she's managed, uh, convenience stores too. So she's really
00:31:30.220 responsible. So it's a, it's a great success story and, uh, they're not all like that. I mean,
00:31:34.720 there's kids that are struggling within it as you'd expect, but you know, it's, it's so powerful
00:31:42.620 that they have this community with arms open for them and they know it and they're always there.
00:31:48.920 And so for those who are struggling, it's, we've seen some go to some deep, terrible places in their
00:31:56.340 recovery and then come out and, you know, and another one is Nino who's, who went through a lot
00:32:01.080 and that was the first child adopted. And he, um, he's doing amazing, beautiful family. I mean,
00:32:08.000 it's just incredible. Love that guy. And he's, he's thriving. So yeah, it's, it's really nice to
00:32:14.780 see those things. Yeah. Um, the ending sequence right before the credits is really incredible as
00:32:23.340 you are seeing the parallel between the actors and then the real people that they were, um,
00:32:30.620 that they were portraying. And it's such a powerful testimony, such a powerful testimony to what
00:32:36.600 the Lord has done. Um, how have you seen the lives of those who adopted these kids change?
00:32:45.560 Yeah. Everybody who adopts is going to change. And that is one of the unexpected things. You know,
00:32:52.640 you kind of think I'm just going to help this poor kid, which is partly true, but you go through
00:32:59.980 so much. I mean, you're going to become a much better person. You're refined in this process.
00:33:06.320 The difficulty of parenting traumatized kids is real. And we wanted to make sure we were honest
00:33:14.840 about that in this movie. So you'll see it. Um, but it's not something that has to, um, overwhelm you.
00:33:25.660 And none of these kids were returned to the foster system. They, they powered through this and
00:33:32.180 became even more resilient. And just what you learn from caring for kids that aren't your own. And
00:33:39.640 it's a, it's like a different kind of love in the sense of the way in, you know, you're strangers
00:33:46.700 and then you become family. You're not just born into it. So there's these interesting dynamics,
00:33:54.340 painful dynamics that happen. And so you're definitely stretched whether you want to or know
00:34:00.260 it or not, you are going to be stretched. And I think in the end, you just become hopefully more
00:34:05.080 like Jesus, you know, I mean, some days, I don't know, you feel like you're the opposite, but it's,
00:34:09.880 it's, you know, it's part of it. There's something in this for us, which is what I think
00:34:14.120 the kind of like the broader goal of benefit that God has for this issue is as we care for these kids,
00:34:24.200 we change the church changes. We become more like him.
00:34:27.740 Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think of that verse as you're talking in Ephesians that like we were once
00:34:34.140 strangers and aliens, those of us who are far off have now been brought near by the blood of
00:34:39.760 Christ. We have been as Gentiles adopted into God's family by the blood of Christ, only by his grace
00:34:47.120 and earthly adoption is such a beautiful example of that or it's such a beautiful earthly metaphor for
00:34:53.960 that. And we get to see through that earthly relationship, what God does for us and how much
00:35:01.540 he loves us. And it's such a beautiful thing for Christians to be able to participate in just like
00:35:07.920 any kind of parenthood sanctifies you and teaches you about God, about how much God loves us, that he
00:35:14.460 would have sent his only son to die for us. I, I would not do that. I wouldn't sacrifice one of my
00:35:20.740 children for that. Wow. God must've loved us so much that he would have sacrificed that.
00:35:25.740 But then adoption, you get to see a whole other layer of the gospel and God's love. And I think
00:35:31.360 that's like, even if you don't have someone in the movie saying that exact thing, that is depicted
00:35:37.700 very artfully in this movie. And whether someone watches this and they're a Christian and it affirms,
00:35:45.380 you know, their beliefs about adoption and the Bible already, or whether they are coming
00:35:49.320 at this as someone who's not a Christian, they're going to see the gospel of death.
00:35:53.600 Yeah. You know, when, when I think about how much we as Christians critique the world around us,
00:36:02.460 which I'm not saying is wrong, we need to do that. But what you're saying is something we forget all
00:36:07.640 the time. And we forget that reality that we are fallen, broken, messed up people, and hopefully
00:36:14.940 becoming less and less that as we go on. But we need to be really careful. We have to hold on to
00:36:24.120 that reality. We have to understand where we've come from, that we have come from death. We have come
00:36:29.720 as followers of Jesus, we have been renewed. It's his mercy that we're even alive and breathing.
00:36:37.020 And so we have a responsibility to really look carefully at our lives. And what we say is
00:36:47.760 important that we actually live that we say, we believe things. And when there's not, when it's
00:36:54.180 incongruent with how we live, then the world looks on and goes, why should we take you seriously?
00:37:00.440 And certainly, why should we take your criticism seriously? If you, you know, take abortion,
00:37:09.260 for example, it's like, you, you want children to not be aborted. And I see these as separate
00:37:15.680 things, but the world looks at it and goes, well, then why are there's, are these children over here
00:37:20.120 that are alive suffering? So you must not care about life, really. You just care about this one
00:37:25.660 thing. And it's an example of how we have got to look at all the different things that we are meant
00:37:31.940 to go and be a part of and really be a part of them. If we're going to really, I think,
00:37:38.940 uh, be living out our faith appropriately and expect for anyone to take us seriously when we're,
00:37:46.480 we're talking about these really difficult issues that, you know, people who don't believe like us
00:37:52.740 don't see the same way. So I'm, I'm urging us as, as, as followers of Jesus to lose our lives for him.
00:38:02.840 I mean, this is, those are the scary verses we don't talk about, you know, if you want to have life,
00:38:09.560 then lose your life and follow me. If you don't, you're going to lose your life. If you don't follow
00:38:16.500 Jesus, you don't gain life, you know? So that's, that's important right now. It's the spirit of this
00:38:23.780 movie. It's get up and do what you believe you ought to do, what you were made to do. And as we
00:38:31.660 address all the different things in our nation, and it's coming from that, when we've lived and embraced
00:38:38.640 pain and suffering, then maybe people will take a little more seriously. And that's real love. I
00:38:46.660 think that's the love that people want to actually see. So it's there in this movie.
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00:39:49.400 I definitely think that the movie will compel people in that way. Of course, there will always
00:39:59.040 be people because they don't know the gospel and they don't know Christ who will malign
00:40:05.500 Christianity no matter what. That's right.
00:40:09.860 And I think about just the history of Christianity, and I've talked about it so many times on this show,
00:40:15.840 but there's a book called When Children Became People by Owen Backey that he wrote, I think, 20 years
00:40:21.840 ago now, but it's about pagan Greece in Rome and how children were subjugated. They were treated as
00:40:28.120 sex slaves. The infant mortality rate was so high that they didn't want to get too attached to their
00:40:34.080 kids, and so they would treat them in all sorts of horrible ways. At best, they were seen as maybe
00:40:39.620 inheritors of wealth if you had wealth, and then at worst, they were seen as basically animals.
00:40:45.840 And in Rome, they didn't have the physical power that gave them value. In Greece, they didn't have
00:40:51.200 the intellectual power that gave them value, and so they were seen as less than. And this historian,
00:40:57.120 Owen Backey, the reason it's titled When Children Became People is because when Christians came on the
00:41:03.260 scene, they changed how the world saw children. When Christians introduced this message of Imago Dei,
00:41:11.840 and we are all equally, as you said, dead in sin apart from Christ. We all need, by grace through
00:41:17.480 faith, to be made alive in Him. That means the widow, the poor person, the sick, the disabled,
00:41:22.400 the child, that person all has value. Those people all have value, and they actually need more help
00:41:28.940 than less. And that revolutionized how the world, over time, saw people. That's why Christians
00:41:37.940 invented orphanages. That's why we have been at the forefront of adoption and helping these
00:41:44.200 vulnerable children and vulnerable populations. And we need to see our task as the common task of the
00:41:53.020 Christian. What Christians have been doing for 2,000 years, that baton is still being passed to
00:41:58.580 Christians today. And in an increasingly secular world, where we see the prevalence of abortion,
00:42:04.980 where we see the sexualization of children, the objectification of children, like Christians still
00:42:10.240 have the responsibility, just like we did in ancient Greece and Rome, to say, no, those people are made in
00:42:16.080 the image of God. And we are going to, as you said, through our actions, show that they have dignity
00:42:22.640 and worth. Yeah, I love it. That's exactly right. And I don't mean that we can't have the life that
00:42:32.800 America allows for. I mean, what America has done historically in this world is incomprehensible.
00:42:40.980 The good that has been done to the world because of freedom and the ability to be involved as an
00:42:48.320 individual and to create companies and organizations that can go out and do the things that we often
00:42:53.620 just leave to nations to do and leaders, political leaders. When you decentralize that, it has caused
00:43:00.860 immeasurable benefit. And so I don't suggest we live like ascetics and throw ashes on ourselves every
00:43:08.340 morning. You know, it's like, but there's the mentality we, I want us to have, I hope that we
00:43:14.340 will gain where it's been lost or becomes where it's become dormant, where yes, we have those things,
00:43:21.020 but our, our mind, our heart, our thoughts are occupied by the pain of others enough to do
00:43:28.120 something about it, where we're consistently engaged in the things around us. We need to raise
00:43:33.720 healthy, good families. We need to have fun doing that. It, that's all a part of it. But where
00:43:40.560 we miss it is when that, that swallows us up and we're too busy and we're too tired and we're too
00:43:47.780 bored. We're too, we're just disinterested. And then all of these problems around us spin out of
00:43:53.360 control and we step back and go, what happened? Well, we're not engaged when we're not engaged,
00:43:59.720 then that's what will continue to happen. And so that's the, that's the, that's the challenge we
00:44:05.160 have as people who are living in a fluent nation. We have that challenge. We've got to remember those
00:44:12.600 who are around us that are in need and really do something about it. So it's intense spiritual life
00:44:18.520 with intense practical work that I would love to see result from this film.
00:44:24.820 Yep. And that's what this story is about. Amazing things happen when Christians refuse to mind their
00:44:29.900 own business. And this community could have said, we've got our own problems. We've got our own
00:44:34.580 problems. The last thing we need is to take on more burdens. That's how the world sees it. And yet they
00:44:41.020 said to these kids, no, your problems are my problems now. And that's so powerful. So where can people
00:44:46.780 find how to see this movie?
00:44:48.620 So you can actually see it today. And when you see the movie, you're going to be able to get
00:44:54.440 involved as well. It's not just raise awareness and walk away. It's raise awareness, go see the
00:44:59.900 movie, tell people about it. You're going to laugh. You are going to cry. You're going to have an
00:45:03.800 experience. And then there's going to be a chance to connect to a website that can get you involved.
00:45:09.140 You can actually help your church get involved like Bennett Chapel did. You can learn about fostering
00:45:15.280 and adopting and get involved in that. And then you can learn and get involved with prevention
00:45:21.520 through an organization called Care Portal that connects communities, people, churches,
00:45:27.580 schools, other things to the needs in their areas. So that's available after the movie. If you stick
00:45:35.320 around for the end, you'll be able to be connected immediately to getting involved.
00:45:39.100 Awesome. Well, thank you so much. And we'll provide the link for everything in the description of this
00:45:44.100 episode so people can easily check it out. Josh, I appreciate you. I appreciate the work that y'all
00:45:49.480 have done on this. Thank you. It really is amazing. It's inspiring. It really is. This is such a good
00:45:54.860 movie. Great acting, well-made, amazing storytelling, and it should be the MO of Christians to take upon
00:46:03.640 the burdens of their community. So thank you so much. Love it. Thank you so much for having us,
00:46:08.200 having me here. It's been great.
00:46:14.480 Love it.
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