Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1047 ｜ 'Pain Free Birth：' False Promises & Bad Theology

00:00:00.560 Pain-free birth. Is it possible? You've probably heard of this supernatural birth, pain-free

00:00:09.040 birth movement. Maybe you've read books and you've bought courses that guarantee if you

00:00:16.040 have the right amount of faith, if you practice the right things, if you say the right things,

00:00:21.600 then you will be guaranteed a pain-free and comfortable birth. Today, we are talking about

00:00:26.820 the theological roots and the theological concerns I have with this idea, as well as discussing the

00:00:35.860 physiological possibility of a pain-free birth on today's episode of Relatable. It's brought to you

00:00:43.160 by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to goodranchers.com. Use code Allie at checkout. That's

00:00:47.200 goodranchers.com, code Allie.

00:00:56.820 Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Today, we are talking about a pretty controversial topic,

00:01:03.080 and that is pain-free birth. This is a subject that a lot of you have been asking me to cover

00:01:09.840 for a while. Is it possible to have a birth that is really pain-free? And what are the philosophical,

00:01:17.020 ideological, even theological roots of this idea? If you're like me, I have given birth,

00:01:24.760 and I love the idea of having a pain-free birth because my births have not been pain-free. None

00:01:32.900 of them have. And I have had really difficult births in a lot of ways and very difficult recoveries. And

00:01:40.760 so this idea of being able to give birth in a way that is without the trauma, without the physical and

00:01:48.980 mental pain sounds really good. And I've followed some accounts, and I've read some books, and I've

00:01:56.880 heard the ideas over the past few years that tell me if you do or say or practice XYZ, you will be able 0.56

00:02:06.400 to give birth without pain. And I've even had some friends who say that their births were so smooth,

00:02:12.720 so quick, so pain-free, even without an epidural. And so I know that it is possible for people to

00:02:19.680 have more comfortable births, but I really wanted to look into this idea. And again, the roots of this

00:02:26.060 idea, this idea that you can have a supernaturally powered pain-free birth. Where does that come from?

00:02:35.520 What do I think about it? And do I actually think that this idea and some of the assumptions within it,

00:02:42.180 some of the theological principles within it are actually harmful. So let's get into it. Some of

00:02:47.900 you may have no idea what I'm talking about. And if you're not a mom or if you're way past giving

00:02:53.240 birth, I still think that this is a really important topic for us to dive into because of all that's

00:03:00.640 within it, everything that's interwoven. I think that the ideas within it really affect women in a variety

00:03:07.740 of ways. So let me give you a summary of pain-free birth. This really comes from someone named Jackie

00:03:15.040 Mize. She wrote a book called Supernatural Childbirth. It was originally published in 1993,

00:03:21.700 published again in 2018. I read this book when I was pregnant with my second. I was hoping for

00:03:28.660 a VBAC, that's a vaginal birth, after a cesarean. And so I was doing everything I possibly could to

00:03:35.280 prepare for it. I was reading all kinds of things to prepare me for having a natural birth. People

00:03:42.040 recommended things like hypnobirthing to me, something that I really could never get into

00:03:47.260 for a variety of reasons and concerns that I had. But I really wanted to do everything that I could

00:03:53.780 to prepare my body, to prepare my mind, to give birth naturally. I was also hoping not only to have

00:04:00.720 a VBAC, but also to do so without an epidural. Many of you know my birth stories. I had an unplanned

00:04:07.140 C-section the first time that was pretty, I don't want to use this word in a hyperbolic way, but

00:04:12.220 pretty traumatic for me. It was a really bad experience, a really painful, difficult, unnecessary

00:04:18.980 C-section. I'm so thankful that I was healthy, that my baby was healthy and all that. But

00:04:26.280 if those of you, for those of you who have heard my story, you know that I'm not exaggerating when

00:04:31.240 I say that it was unnecessary and wrong. And then with my second one, I wasn't able to have

00:04:36.320 a VBAC. I did go into labor naturally, thankfully, but I got an infection and all of that. So that was

00:04:42.260 actually probably a necessary C-section. And then I did what is pretty rare, just statistically. I

00:04:48.420 actually had a VBAC after two C-sections and I gave birth in a hospital and I had a really great

00:04:54.540 team of people. I did end up having an epidural when I got to seven centimeters, but I wanted to

00:05:01.740 last as long as possible without the medication. And it's not because I believe I was trying to have

00:05:07.260 like a pain-free birth. I just wanted to keep it as natural as possible and increase my chances

00:05:12.340 of a VBAC after two C-sections as much as I possibly could. And so I've had birth both ways. I have gone

00:05:22.340 down like the holistic route as much as I could. I wasn't comfortable for myself with a home birth,

00:05:29.540 having a VBAC after two C-sections, but I am very open to holistic methods of pain management.

00:05:38.920 I support my friends who have given birth in birth centers and who have given birth at home. They have

00:05:44.880 had beautiful experiences. I think that that can work for a lot of women. And then I also think it can 0.98

00:05:52.140 be great for women like me who the third time around, I really felt like I needed a hospital and medical 1.00

00:05:58.960 team. It just helped us feel more at peace and more comfortable. And that was generally a great

00:06:05.400 experience for me too. So I am certainly not someone who is against holistic approaches. I am not against

00:06:14.460 all forms of trying to mitigate and manage pain that are not just medicinal, that are not just

00:06:24.100 epidurals. But this is a little bit different. The supernatural childbirth, Jackie Mize movement,

00:06:32.440 I realized when I was reading that book a few years ago that, okay, this is very different than my

00:06:38.860 understanding of who God is, what the redemption arc is, and what he promises us through the gospel.

00:06:48.660 And that is because this concept of a pain-free birth can actually be traced back to a theological

00:06:55.360 movement. And I would call it a heretical theological movement. And that is the word of faith

00:07:02.100 movement. That is a mix of charismatic mysticism and this name it and claim it prosperity gospel

00:07:11.080 that is very highly influenced, if not forged by people like Benny Hinn and Kenneth Copeland.

00:07:21.520 And I would say even people like Joel Osteen are a part of this as well. This is basically the idea

00:07:29.140 that the gospel has guaranteed Christians a certain amount of earthly success and physical healing and

00:07:38.960 physical comfort. And what we have to do is name that and claim it. So through the blood of Christ,

00:07:46.380 through Jesus, we are claiming our healing. We are claiming our pain-free birth. We are claiming

00:07:53.680 our financial prosperity. And typically, there's some kind of exchange that these people say that

00:08:00.080 we have to make in order to receive that abundance and those blessings. And that is that we either have

00:08:07.140 to prove to God that we have faith by naming it and claiming it, laying hands on people, naming and

00:08:15.340 claiming their supernatural healing, or very often it is sowing a seed of faithfulness. You will hear

00:08:23.380 that a lot. Typically, what these pastors' preachers mean by that is donate to their ministry. That is

00:08:30.740 sowing the seed of faithfulness. When you give to these megachurch televangelists who are showing God

00:08:37.680 that you trust Him, and He is going to reward that with comfort and especially with financial prosperity.

00:08:45.460 I posted a clip just a couple weeks ago of Benny Hinn saying this very recently. I think it was July 2nd

00:08:52.780 of this year in which, in one of his telecasts, he said, the only way to protect yourself from

00:09:00.360 the turbulence of these times and financial demise is to sow a seed of generosity. And of course,

00:09:08.540 at the bottom of his screen, he's got a link to his ministry. He's got the phone number where you can

00:09:14.380 give. And so, I mean, that is just the height of spiritual manipulation that is very similar to what

00:09:20.540 Jesus called out the Pharisees for doing. There are very few things more wicked than that. Exploiting 0.99

00:09:28.120 poor, vulnerable, sick, and disabled people, promising that God will give them healing and prosperity,

00:09:34.920 protect them from harm if they give them money. And in this supernatural childbirth movement, 1.00

00:09:44.000 it's not necessarily financial prosperity that they are guaranteeing. So it's a little different. But

00:09:50.240 they are saying, if you do these things, if you say these things, then you will have a pain-free birth

00:09:57.420 because why? You deserve it. You are entitled to it. It is something that God has guaranteed His people

00:10:04.120 through His word and through His death and resurrection. And actually, Jackie Mize,

00:10:12.160 she wrote in Supernatural Childbirth that her belief in this concept actually originated at

00:10:19.420 Kenneth Copeland's church. Kenneth Copeland, this should not at all be controversial or scandalous to

00:10:24.880 say, is a false teacher. He is a false teacher. He preaches this heretical, name it and claim it, 0.95

00:10:31.360 word of faith, prosperity, gospel message, that the gospel means that you will have earthly success

00:10:39.040 and happiness. Of course, that is not at all what Jesus said. He said, you must take up your

00:10:44.200 cross and follow me. You must lay your life down. In this world, you will have trouble, but take heart.

00:10:52.460 What? You'll have earthly prosperity? Don't worry about it, but take heart. I have overcome the world.

00:10:59.000 So the victory, the success that we are assured of, that we are promised is through Christ's

00:11:05.220 overcoming. It's not because we are guaranteed awesomeness in this life.

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00:12:28.720 So here is a question that I've seen a lot in this pain-free birth world. And in so many words,

00:12:36.380 Jackie Mize has asked this question too, but this is just kind of the theme, the motto of what I see in

00:12:44.120 this pain-free birth world. And that is, why would a good father design my body to experience pain and

00:12:52.060 trauma in labor? And look, we will get to the problems with that question and the implications

00:12:58.380 in that question in just a minute. But I think most of you, you know the gospel and you know the story

00:13:04.280 of Genesis 1 through 3 can understand that that is a really big fundamental misunderstanding of the

00:13:12.540 fall and human nature and redemption. So I want to back up a little bit and talk a little bit more

00:13:19.380 about this word of faith movement, where it comes from, the problem with it. And like I said, this is

00:13:26.120 much bigger than so-called pain-free birth. These are theological errors that really hurt people,

00:13:32.320 can ruin people's lives, and of course shipwreck people's faith because you're putting your faith

00:13:37.240 in yourself. You're putting your faith in earthly things, and all of those things will pass away.

00:13:44.560 And if we're putting our faith and assurance in those, then Christ won't be enough for us. And if

00:13:50.280 Christ is not enough for us, do we really know him and understand who he is? So that's why this is such

00:13:55.920 a big deal. So the Word of Faith movement grew out of the Pentecostal movement in the late 20th century.

00:14:02.920 Its founder was someone named E.W. Kenyon. He studied the metaphysical new thought teachings.

00:14:09.780 Like this is very similar to the New Age mind science. That's where name it and claim it originated.

00:14:17.940 It was combined with Pentecostalism, resulting in this very weird mix of Orthodox Christianity and

00:14:25.100 mysticism. So they will hold two traditional Christian doctrines, which I think makes it

00:14:29.960 so attractive to a lot of people, and it confuses a lot of people, and it causes a lot of genuine

00:14:36.420 Christians to say, well, no, that's just another iteration of Christianity. That's just another 1.00

00:14:41.480 denomination of Christianity. It's fine. They just believe some cuckoo things, but it's okay. 1.00

00:14:47.040 But really, it is that wedding of worldly mysticism with some tenets of traditional Christianity that

00:14:55.940 make it so toxic, that make it really another gospel that, of course, we are warned against in

00:15:02.380 the New Testament. So as I said, Kenneth Copeland, he is one of the most well-known word of faith

00:15:08.540 modern preachers. And in case you doubt, I can give you an example of him claiming this word of faith

00:15:16.360 heretical teaching. Here's salt one. The earth does not belong to God. It doesn't belong to Jesus. He gave 0.91

00:15:24.700 it to men. And what we do here, God, if you'll study the scripture closely, you'll begin to realize

00:15:33.580 that God is pretty well bound up to whatever we ask him to do. He can't just come butting in here and

00:15:42.920 stop that storm. Somebody on earth is going to have to start speaking to this stuff.

00:15:50.260 All right. So it's really exchanging the God of scripture for the God of self, as we have

00:15:56.460 discussed many times. Now, typically, when we're talking about that, we are talking about that in

00:16:01.920 context of progressive Christianity. But I actually wrote about this in my first book, that progressive

00:16:06.640 Christianity and the prosperity gospel are two sides of the same coin. And that coin is something that I

00:16:11.940 call me-ology, where it doesn't put God in the center, theos in the center of your thoughts of

00:16:19.920 your belief system, but it puts me in the center. It puts ourselves on the throne. Psalm 24 1 directly

00:16:28.120 refutes what pastor Kenneth Copeland said there, the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof,

00:16:35.800 the world and those who dwell therein. So right there in Psalm 24 1, we see a refutation of what

00:16:46.420 Kenneth Copeland just said. And then we also see in Colossians 1, the preeminence of Christ.

00:16:54.780 So here's God's authority. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation,

00:17:01.120 for by him all things were created in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or

00:17:06.440 dominions or rulers or authorities, all things were created through him and for him. And he is

00:17:12.680 before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body of the

00:17:17.660 church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent.

00:17:22.820 For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all

00:17:28.620 things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of the cross. And so Jesus is preeminent.

00:17:38.740 He is the head of all things. And we also read that God does as he pleases. Psalm 115 3,

00:17:49.240 our God is in the heavens. He does all that he pleases. Then we've got Job 42.2, as we have

00:17:59.840 discussed many times on this show. Job 42.2 says, I know that you can do all things and that no purpose

00:18:08.440 of yours can be thwarted. Now, we also read in James 5 that the prayer of a righteous person

00:18:19.220 has great power as it is working. That is James 5.16. And so, yes, our prayer means something,

00:18:29.260 and it does something, but it is a little bit of a mysterious conundrum, because God is outside of

00:18:35.420 linear time. He's out waiting to know what we are going to pray before doing something. He is suspended

00:18:41.420 in the eternal now, and yet he commands us to pray, and he commands us to evangelize. Even though he is

00:18:46.840 all-powerful, he is all-knowing, he is preeminent, he is completely sovereign. And so what we can deduce

00:18:55.620 from that is that God has actually preordained the means by which he chooses sovereignly to

00:19:03.320 accomplish his will. He has chosen the means of prayer as a way for him to respond and to accomplish

00:19:12.480 his will. He has preordained evangelism to be a means by which the gospel reaches people.

00:19:21.260 But that does not mean that he is depending upon us for him to act. It doesn't mean that we are given

00:19:28.420 supreme authority or an authority that transcends him. Basically, what Kenneth Copeland has just described

00:19:36.640 is a genie in a bottle that is powerless unless we activate him by using certain incantations

00:19:44.780 to get him to do our will. That is heretical. That is not Christian. That is not biblical. That is evil. 0.97

00:19:54.700 That is satanic. That cannot be so different than the temptation that Satan used against Eve,

00:20:04.420 that you will be like God. Did God really say? No, he just doesn't want you to know the difference

00:20:12.880 between good and evil because then you will be powerful and knowledgeable and wise like God.

00:20:18.280 He's just jealous of you. This is basically the word of faith movement. You can be like God.

00:20:25.960 And it is so similar to progressivism in so many ways because just as progressivism says that certain

00:20:33.880 people can declare something and change their identity through their word, through naming it

00:20:39.500 and claiming it, so does the word of faith movement that they can declare something and it is. But

00:20:43.640 it is only God who can create through declaration. Let there be light. And there was light.

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00:22:02.000 The roots of the Word of Faith movement and the Name It and Claim It message have more

00:22:09.960 in common, as we've already noted, with New Age metaphysics and with biblical Christianity.

00:22:16.160 Instead of us creating our reality with our thoughts as New Age proponents advise, the Name It and 0.95

00:22:22.060 Claim It teachers tell us that we can use the power of faith to create our own reality or to get what we

00:22:28.460 want. This is called the faith force or the force of faith. So faith is redefined from our childlike

00:22:37.040 trust in our good Father, that He is going to care for us exactly how He wants to, and He is going to

00:22:45.680 take us exactly where He wants to go into this kind of potion, this kind of spell that says,

00:22:56.680 when we say a certain thing and when we declare a certain kind of faith in God, then He will do

00:23:02.660 what we want Him to do. And then they preach that illness, sin, failure, poverty, these are all the

00:23:14.280 results of a lack of faith. They're remedied by confession, claiming God's promises for oneself

00:23:20.960 into existence, and then often again by financial donations to their ministry. So this is really the

00:23:32.180 theological foundation, the philosophical root of this supernatural childbirth movement. As I said,

00:23:41.280 Jackie Mize acknowledged in her book, Supernatural Childbirth, that she was inspired by

00:23:46.420 Brother Kenneth Copeland at one of his gatherings. Jackie Mize said this, that in this service where

00:23:54.940 she says that Brother Copeland prophesied, she writes, the Lord says there are ladies in here

00:24:01.660 right now. So this is what she said that he prophesied. There are ladies in here right now who 0.95

00:24:05.700 are expecting a baby and others who want to have babies. If you'll use my word and stand on my word,

00:24:11.020 you'll have those babies supernaturally without pain. The doctors and nurses and medical personnel

00:24:16.120 will be astounded and amazed at the way you come through this delivery. It will be something they

00:24:20.520 haven't seen before. And after they see with their medical eyes what you have done, that yes,

00:24:25.160 it is true, they have witnessed it, then you can tell them that God did it. It will be a testimony

00:24:30.500 to them. So that inspired Jackie Mize to write this supernatural childbirth. And here's part of the

00:24:38.760 description. She had been told, Jackie Mize had been told she could never have children. However,

00:24:43.380 by unlocking powerful truths and dynamic faith principles, she and her husband, Terry, found

00:24:48.420 in the Bible, that they found in the Bible, they now have four miracle children. And so she promises

00:24:56.140 that if you use her truths, you can unlock this miracle for yourself. So if you can't have children,

00:25:03.500 you can unlock this miracle. Like if you've been told that you're infertile, then you can unlock this

00:25:08.080 miracle by doing these things. If you want to avoid pain and birth, you can unlock that miracle

00:25:14.480 by doing these things. She writes that natural childbirth is good, but God has a better way of

00:25:20.460 doing it than the thing that we're used to. She says, when I refer to supernatural childbirth,

00:25:25.120 I'm talking about being able to conceive and to have babies with a pregnancy free from nausea,

00:25:30.720 morning sickness, pain, moodiness, depression, and without fear of any kind,

00:25:36.200 than going through the entire labor without pain and through the delivery without stitches

00:25:42.040 and anesthetic. The book teaches these things, how to put faith principles into action for your

00:25:48.940 very own supernatural childbirth, how you can be a living example of God's promises in action,

00:25:54.300 how and when to use your faith for pregnancy and delivery. She offers confessions and prayers

00:25:59.740 for a supernatural conception, pregnancy, childbirth, and all circumstances surrounding each stage.

00:26:05.880 Here are some excerpts from the book so we can understand really what she believes.

00:26:10.560 Let me tell you, those afterbirth pains are under the same curse as any other pain. Now,

00:26:16.400 if you've given birth, you know what those afterbirth pains are. Whether you had a C-section or not,

00:26:21.980 like there's the cramping of your uterus because your uterus is contracting to get back to

00:26:27.340 its normal small size, and then there's either a scar or other kinds of physical recovery

00:26:34.760 that is trying to heal. And she is saying that after that, you are not actually supposed to

00:26:40.340 have any pain. And this is how you accomplish that. She says, after you have your baby, keep talking to

00:26:46.200 your body. You can use the name of Jesus and make your body do what it needs to do. You command the

00:26:54.240 bleeding to stop, command the uterus to contract like it's supposed to without pain. She says, 1.00

00:27:03.680 many of the doctors and nurses I have talked to say the worst enemy of a pregnant woman

00:27:07.020 and laborers fear. Say it out loud. I rebuke you fear in the name of Jesus. God has not given me a

00:27:11.940 spirit of fear, but of power and love and a sound mind. I have God's perfect love and that perfect love

00:27:16.860 casts out fear. Now, do you see how she is interweaving things that are true? Things that

00:27:25.660 are biblical with things that are not. How she is saying that God has not given us a spirit of fear,

00:27:33.140 but of power and of self-control. That is true. The Bible does say that. I have God's perfect love

00:27:38.580 and perfect love casts out fear. That is true. We are called not to be fearful. We are called not to be

00:27:44.580 anxious. We are called not to be worried. We are called to cast all our anxieties on the Lord and

00:27:50.980 he will care for us. That is true. And we can have peace of mind. The peace that actually surpasses

00:27:56.600 understanding. That means peace that doesn't even make sense in our current circumstances because it

00:28:01.880 is from the Holy Spirit. That part is true. But what the word of faith movement, what she is attaching

00:28:07.060 that to is then a guarantee of no physical pain or even physical ailments. The bleeding that occurs

00:28:13.540 after birth is necessary. You have like a dinner plate size wound on your uterus where your placenta 0.99

00:28:19.160 has come out and it's actually good. It's necessary to bleed because of that. But she is saying that is

00:28:24.500 not only a part of the fall, but a part of the fall that you can escape through your activating faith

00:28:32.200 and through naming it and claiming it. She uses again that first Timothy 1 7, the not giving us a

00:28:39.860 spirit of fear. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Philippians 4 13.

00:28:45.340 Philippians 4 19. My God will supply every need of yours according to his riches and glory.

00:28:51.680 And then she uses 3 John 2 Isaiah 53 4 through 5 Isaiah 54 17. All of these things she says that

00:29:00.880 is God guaranteeing us a pain-free experience, not just in birth, but in various areas of life.

00:29:06.320 That is guaranteeing us ease. That is guaranteeing us comfort. That is guaranteeing us healing. But of

00:29:12.660 course, in the context of all of these things, that's not what it's talking about. One of the

00:29:17.160 most misused verses, and I can link when we have done a whole episode on Philippians 4 13 and how it

00:29:22.520 is one of the most misused verses. When you look at the context of Philippians 4 13, he is not talking

00:29:29.940 about just physical pain. He is not talking about the fact that he doesn't have enough money. He is

00:29:38.200 saying, I can endure persecution. I can endure poverty. I can endure imprisonment. I can endure not having

00:29:45.360 enough. I can endure lacking. Not because I know that God is going to come through and provide me with

00:29:52.300 riches and provide me with abundance or even free me from prison. But because I have Christ and because

00:29:59.260 to live is Christ and to die is gain. That's the promise that he has. That's what he's clinging

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00:31:17.040 The book emphasizes the importance of confession throughout birth and pregnancy. Confession,

00:31:26.140 she says, is an important act of faith on your part. Death and life, she notes in Proverbs 18,

00:31:31.720 21, are in the power of the tongue and those who love it will eat its fruits. For with the heart one

00:31:37.960 believes and is justified and with the mouth one confesses and is saved, Romans 10, 10. The book

00:31:43.340 specifically instructs readers to use the following verses to negate the curses of the law found in

00:31:48.600 Deuteronomy 28. She says this, Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for

00:31:54.320 us. For it is written, curse it is everyone hanged on a tree so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of

00:31:59.680 Abraham might come to the Gentiles so that we might receive the promised spirit through faith. And if you

00:32:04.200 are Christ, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to the promise. So again, here she is 0.63

00:32:10.000 using these half-truths to push something that is not true. It is true that Jesus hanged on a cross,

00:32:18.320 that he took our punishment upon himself. He who knew no sin became sin so that we might become

00:32:27.000 the righteousness of God. He gave us his righteousness, made our slate clean so we could

00:32:32.180 finally be acceptable to a holy, sinless, perfect God. All of that is true. That does not mean that

00:32:39.660 we do not live in a fallen world and that we don't feel the effects of the fall. What I'm confused

00:32:46.100 about is what these Word of Faith people think that we get to escape because we've escaped the

00:32:53.620 curse and what we don't. Because I don't think any of these people can deny that even those who have

00:32:59.520 the utmost faith, like Kenneth Copeland, that they die one day. They die one day. That is part of the curse.

00:33:06.300 That is part of the curse of Genesis 3, is death. Or that we all age, that our body over time, that it decays

00:33:17.660 and it starts to sag and we get sick more. Even the people that they claim have the utmost faith,

00:33:25.740 that happens to them. So why is it that the curse that apparently Jesus freed us from,

00:33:32.940 the curse of fallenness that we read at the beginning of Genesis, it allows us to escape

00:33:38.180 from a pain-free birth, but it doesn't allow us to escape from physical death?

00:33:44.280 I don't understand that. And this just creates a huge burden. It creates a burden that is heavy

00:33:55.140 and a yoke that is difficult. The very things that Jesus said that he came to free us from,

00:34:01.640 he said, my burden is light. My yoke is easy. Well, this is reversing that because it is putting it

00:34:07.600 all on you. That if you fall on a hard time, if you don't get that promotion, if you don't have

00:34:14.100 earthly success, if you don't become rich, if you don't have a pain-free birth, then it's because you

00:34:19.680 didn't do the right thing. It's because you didn't have enough faith. You didn't pray hard enough.

00:34:25.580 You didn't declare it hard enough. It is your fault. It is your faithlessness. And there just

00:34:33.760 seems to be no room for the grace and the power of God. And the fact that we are in this tense moment

00:34:40.000 of having these blessings of grace and the blessings of the gospel and the peace that comes with

00:34:45.860 Christianity and being able to access God's presence confidently through Jesus Christ while still

00:34:53.440 having to deal with the effects of sin, while still having to deal with sickness and sorrow and

00:35:01.000 disappointment and failure and travesty and cancer and all of these things, we are never guaranteed

00:35:09.580 that Jesus is going to spare us of those. We are never guaranteed that that comes with the gospel,

00:35:18.320 that prosperity and a pain-free birth is part of being a Christian. That is not what we read in

00:35:24.700 scripture. And again, this is a different gospel. This is a heretical gospel. This gospel is not about

00:35:30.460 Jesus. It's about what you can get out of it. She uses Exodus 1, the Egyptian midwives spare Hebrew baby boys, 0.94

00:35:38.960 um, and she talks about the difference between the Hebrew midwives or the Hebrew women that they 0.77

00:35:44.580 were able to give birth easily. And then, um, that the Egyptian women were not. And she says that 1.00

00:35:51.720 this is a, an example of God's people get quick and easy births. See, okay, well that doesn't really

00:35:59.420 work. If you look at some of the other people, uh, if you look at some of the other people in scripture,

00:36:05.300 who were God's people who died in childbirth, Rachel died in childbirth. She was a part of

00:36:11.140 God's people. Was it because of her lack of faith? We don't see that in scripture. We don't see that 0.58

00:36:17.100 God's people, uh, were able to be spared from, from pain or from hardship. In fact, God used pain and

00:36:26.100 hardship and trials and, and waiting, going through the wilderness, for example, uh, in order to

00:36:33.140 sanctify them, to increase their reliance on him. She also uses 1 Timothy 2, 15, we will be saved

00:36:41.720 through childbearing if they continue in faith and love and holiness, uh, in self-control. And she says

00:36:49.600 that this means that we could have a pain-free birth, that we can actually declare, um, a pain-free

00:36:57.220 birth because of that. She says that that's what that scripture means. Um, and yet that's not what

00:37:05.420 that passage means. The MacArthur New Testament commentary says this, Paul teaches here that

00:37:10.560 although a woman precipitated the fall and the woman and the women bear that responsibility,

00:37:15.800 they may be preserved from that stigma through childbearing. Paul's point is that while a woman 0.94

00:37:21.140 may have led the race to sin, women have the privilege of leading the race out of sin to 1.00

00:37:26.760 godliness. I think that's a really hard saying, a very difficult verse to understand and interpret,

00:37:31.640 but it is not in context talking about having a pain-free birth. So that's my biggest issue.

00:37:41.280 Those are my biggest issues with this supernatural childbirth, pain-free birth movement is actually

00:37:46.700 it's theological roots, the name it and claim it foundation of it. And again, just this weight

00:37:53.500 that women are made to carry that if something goes wrong in your birth, if your body does not do 0.97

00:38:01.060 exactly what you want it to do, if there's a complication, it's because of your lack of faith.

00:38:08.780 And even though I have not bought into the principles of the prosperity gospel in a long time,

00:38:14.180 I've talked about before when I was like in high school, I listened to Joel Osteen, didn't see

00:38:18.020 anything wrong with it. Thank the Lord for God's patience and faithfulness and sanctification for

00:38:23.060 all of us. I will say after, during my second pregnancy, I think I did buy into that a little

00:38:30.200 bit that if, that I really am ultimately in control, that I can think the right thoughts that

00:38:35.700 will guarantee my outcome. Now, of course, what we think is important, like we're told in

00:38:41.080 Philippians 4, that we should only dwell on things that are lovely and pure and excellent and

00:38:49.280 praiseworthy. And of course, what we say is important out of the heart, the abundance of

00:38:55.220 the heart, the mouth speaks. And yes, I do believe that you can be hung by the tongue and that if you

00:39:03.160 are constantly speaking negativity and complaining and you're constantly talking about how tired you are,

00:39:09.420 how awful things are, how stressed you are, that that can, of course, like you're listening to

00:39:13.680 yourself, it can affect your mind. And then it can affect your attitude. It can affect how you treat

00:39:19.300 other people. It can demotivate you into laziness and complacency and all of that can have an effect

00:39:26.120 on your circumstance. I think that that is just logically true and physically true, naturally true.

00:39:33.640 But when we're talking about the supernatural power of being able to activate God to do what we want to

00:39:39.540 do based on what we say, that's where the damage is done. And I think I put way too much pressure on

00:39:46.340 myself in my second pregnancy to try to make things happen that I wanted to happen. And it just didn't

00:39:55.600 work that way. And I really tried. I wanted to try to do like hypnobirthing. I tried to justify it to 0.96

00:40:00.740 myself too, that, you know, it's fine if I'm just dwelling on scripture. And maybe some of you have

00:40:06.020 done that and maybe you felt like it was spiritually okay. I think that there are some concerns that

00:40:11.220 come along with that, though. Again, the name it and claim it. But if you're just trying to dwell on

00:40:15.480 scripture and allow the word of God to give you peace and just pray for his peace, I think that's

00:40:21.420 perfectly fine. If that puts you in a good, peaceful mental state, I think that's okay. But it largely does

00:40:28.080 come down to the motivations when it comes to that. And again, understanding the promises of God.

00:40:33.760 The promise of God is his faithfulness, is his presence. That's what we get through Christ.

00:40:40.840 It is not necessarily a skirting of difficult outcomes or trials or anything like that. Actually,

00:40:48.400 I think that if we look at scripture and we look at the character of God, it is much more likely for God

00:40:54.480 to allow and to use pain to draw us closer to himself and to strengthen our faith, not our reliance on

00:41:04.560 ourself, but our reliance on God. That is much more like God. Like I think of, for example,

00:41:14.000 I think of 2 Corinthians 12, 9. But he said to me,

00:41:19.320 My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in what? In weakness. Therefore,

00:41:26.920 I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so the power of Christ may rest upon me. It's not

00:41:34.480 my strength. It's not the strength of my faith that allows God's power to rest upon me. It's actually

00:41:42.760 my insufficiency. It's my weakness that allows God's power to work.

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00:42:53.020 But there's another question. Is it physiologically possible? Is it actually physically possible to

00:43:00.220 have a pain-free birth? Well, as I said, I have friends who say that their birth without an

00:43:07.840 epidural, without any medication, at a birth center, at home, was not painful. So I do think

00:43:13.560 it's possible. I don't think those women are lying. And the women that I know that have been able to 1.00

00:43:18.220 have a truly comfortable birth, I mean, it's really hard for me to understand that. But

00:43:22.520 they didn't use this word of faith stuff. They just didn't have a very painful birth,

00:43:28.360 or at least they don't remember the pain. I definitely know women who have given birth 0.96

00:43:33.760 without a lot of physical trauma, like their recovery, their postpartum was really easy.

00:43:40.400 They didn't bleed a lot. There wasn't tearing and things like that. That is absolutely possible.

00:43:45.880 I don't want to say that women absolutely have to have this awful traumatic experience when they

00:43:52.840 give birth or that they should be riddled with anxiety or fear. But I will also say that it is not

00:43:59.440 necessary or normal to have a pain-free birth. I know women who have given birth at home several

00:44:08.300 times, and they're like awesome birthers. They do it with so much grit and so much perseverance,

00:44:16.160 and they will say, that sucked. That was really, really hard. I know only a few, maybe a couple people

00:44:23.060 who can say that they actually enjoyed their medicine-free birth. The Lamaze method has been

00:44:30.720 the most common method for teaching natural childbirth coping techniques. There are several

00:44:35.160 others at this point, too. There are many out there. But what we know as Lamaze was originally developed

00:44:42.840 as the psychoprophylactic method of painless childbirth by Soviet scientists following World War II.

00:44:51.980 So facing enormous obstacles and rebuilding the USSR following two world wars, reconstruction famine,

00:44:58.500 population decline, Soviet scientists were tasked with a way to combat these problems and promote

00:45:03.860 a pronatalist agenda. So their solution was a new non-pharmacological method called the

00:45:09.860 psychoprophylactic method of painless childbirth. They wanted to achieve the complete elimination of

00:45:17.360 labor pain for all women. They said this is the kind of task that only the socialist establishment 0.73

00:45:23.220 is able to resolve. The argument that they made is that the birthing process is controlled by the

00:45:28.980 cerebral cortex, which plays a role in the perception of pain. Even though it originated in Soviet Russia,

00:45:38.340 became famous worldwide thanks to fringe obstetrician Fernand Lamaze. By 1960, this psychoprophylaxis

00:45:46.560 gained a foothold in the U.S. where it was christened as the Lamaze method, an unsurprising effort to

00:45:53.340 distance it from its Soviet roots. And a lot of our moms did Lamaze. I know that this is true for my mom 0.99

00:46:02.520 and my mother-in-law. There was a natural movement in the 70s and 80s where women were giving birth 1.00

00:46:08.680 more without epidurals, without using Lamaze. Like my mom, when she gave birth to my oldest brother,

00:46:15.640 he was like 10 pounds. Oh my goodness. And he was like 10 days overdue. She did that without an epidural.

00:46:22.360 And by the time my other brother came around, and this is the same for my mother-in-law, by the time they

00:46:27.980 had their second, it was like that kind of wave of very natural childbirth methods had kind of like

00:46:33.660 crashed a little bit and people were more okay with using epidurals than my mom used an epidural 0.90

00:46:39.800 for me too. But in those days of like natural childbirth being the thing, Lamaze classes were

00:46:47.780 really popular. The truth is there's little scientific evidence regarding the effectiveness

00:46:52.820 of Lamaze classes and techniques on the pain experience in childbirth. But there are some

00:46:59.560 positive outcomes with Lamaze. I'm not saying that it's all wrong. I think some breathing techniques

00:47:04.540 and teaching the dad how to be a part of it and just preparing women for childbirth, I think that can

00:47:10.940 be really helpful with anxiety and fear. I'm not saying everything within Lamaze is wrong,

00:47:17.700 but we really see traces of this idea that you have the power to make sure that your birth is

00:47:26.300 pain-free. And this goes all the way back to this psychoprophylactic movement in socialist Russia that

00:47:35.040 was really more of a propagandistic tool to get women to have more babies when they were scared of having 1.00

00:47:41.840 babies. And then hypnobirth is also kind of a part of this. In 1989, hypnotherapist Marie

00:47:47.480 Mongan developed a program called Hypnobirthing, which posits that fear and anxiety can heighten the

00:47:52.320 experience of pain. I think that's probably true. And that techniques such as meditation, guided imagery,

00:47:57.340 deep breathing, and hypnosis can plunge you into a state of deep relaxation before enduring labor,

00:48:03.400 helping you become less fearful of it. And I know people, there are probably going to be people

00:48:09.800 reaching out to me and telling me that you did this and this worked for you. Hypnosis does work.

00:48:15.440 It does work. Here's my issue with hypnosis is that it's basically like being drunk and it allows

00:48:24.280 something else to take over your mind so that you are no longer in the driver's seat, but something

00:48:30.620 else is. These incantations, this rhythm, this music, this power, this spell, and you are no longer

00:48:40.680 in control. And so you no longer have self-control, which we are told is a fruit of the spirit. We are

00:48:48.360 also told in Ephesians, do not get drunk with wine, but be filled with the spirit because whatever

00:48:55.260 fills you controls you. So if your mind is controlled by hypnosis, I do think that makes you vulnerable

00:49:02.200 to be controlled and be filled by forces that are dark and to at least have thought processes that

00:49:13.240 are not glorifying to the Lord. So I think as much as we can, we need to be in the right mind.

00:49:20.960 And so that is one of the issues that I have with hypnosis. It also just seems very close to

00:49:27.200 like using a psychic. It feels very close to using magic and magic spells. And we see how much

00:49:36.000 God hates that. Now, again, if you are simply meditating on scripture to try to get it to seep

00:49:42.280 into your heart, to try to fill your mind with what is pure and lovely, I wouldn't even call that

00:49:46.740 hypnosis. I would say that's just meditating on the word of God that absolutely can give us peace.

00:49:51.860 That's really what I was doing because I found this like Christian hypnobirthing several years 1.00

00:49:57.500 ago when I was pregnant with my second. And I had the same concerns about hypnosis, but I was just

00:50:03.180 reading those scriptures and trying to memorize those scriptures and thinking about those scriptures.

00:50:07.700 First Peter 5, 8 says, be sober minded, sober minded, be watchful. Your adversary, the devil,

00:50:14.720 prowls around like a roaring lion seeking someone to devour. And I do think allowing our mind to be

00:50:20.660 taken over by something like that outside of us, like hypnosis actually makes us very vulnerable

00:50:26.660 to Satan's attacks. And while not all supernatural birth, pain-free birth methods are about hypnosis,

00:50:36.080 it's all the same kind of word of faith, name it and claim it mentality. So here are some

00:50:45.560 criticisms that I've read about this supernatural childbirth movement that I think are even more

00:50:53.340 articulate and more specific than what I am able to say. People who have been talking about this

00:50:59.720 for a long time, I found this blog post is called Sovereign Childbirth, a response to the teaching

00:51:04.900 of supernatural childbirth. And she read the book by Jackie Mize and she says, why can we not declare a

00:51:11.560 pain-free childbirth because of the finished work on the cross? We cannot claim this because

00:51:15.400 scripture does not promise us a pain-free childbirth. It does not promise that we can have what we say

00:51:21.720 we want. These are abuses and misinterpretations of God's holy word. It attempts to deny God's sovereignty

00:51:28.140 while elevating our own. There is also this comment on book review that reviewed this book,

00:51:35.840 and I thought that this was really interesting. She said, I thought I had heard the, I hadn't heard

00:51:41.960 the Lord clearly. I read that book more than once while hoping to get pregnant and being pregnant with

00:51:46.440 their second child. This reviewer says, I had 33 hours of labor in a C-section despite the loud

00:51:51.920 declarations and speaking in tongues going on in my labor room from my friends. And I felt afterward that

00:51:57.560 I hadn't heard from the Lord clearly. Thankfully, the Lord opened our eyes and brought us back into a

00:52:02.060 place where we hear the Lord through his written word, exactly, and get to speak to him with clear

00:52:07.780 English words. Here's another review of this book. And I don't think that all critics of every book

00:52:14.780 should be given like full authority and credibility, but these are people's personal stories that I think

00:52:19.120 are important. This person said, I was so excited about this book, loved every bit of it, and immediately

00:52:24.060 put it into practice. Daily prayer all day and night, waking hours, prayer and confession of God's

00:52:31.020 word over my baby, full faith, believed what this book says is true, that we are redeemed from the

00:52:36.360 curse and under our covenant through Jesus, we have health and healing and healthy pregnancies and

00:52:40.520 supernatural childbirth. I lived every word of this book and believed with all of my heart. Then my baby

00:52:46.620 died in my womb. Despite praying, believing, I learned the hard way that this is all just a bunch of crap. 1.00

00:52:55.940 Here's another reviewer. The author shares an idea that the reason she suffered her first miscarriage 0.97

00:53:02.400 was because of her lack of faith and trust in the Lord. She shares that she did all of these

00:53:06.780 physically exhausting things during second pregnancy and didn't miscarry because she decided that she was

00:53:12.400 going to have this baby. Those are extremely harmful thoughts to share and made me feel disgusted as I

00:53:18.160 read them. This is what I mean by this word of faith movement puts a heavy burden on you

00:53:23.240 and gives you a very difficult yoke. Because look, we already deal with mom guilt. All of us do.

00:53:30.260 And if you've had a miscarriage, you were already wrestling with this idea that maybe it was your

00:53:34.640 fault. Like maybe you lifted something too heavy. Maybe you didn't get enough sleep. Maybe you had

00:53:38.440 too much stress. Maybe it was a glass of wine that you drank one time before you found out that you were

00:53:43.360 pregnant at five weeks. You're already wrestling with that. You're already asking God why. 0.76

00:53:47.720 And this mentality makes you believe that yes, it was your fault. And it actually wasn't any of those

00:53:55.740 things. It was something far worse. You didn't have faith in God and you call yourself a Christian. 0.91

00:54:00.500 How much anxiety. This is far from peace. This is anxiety. This is making it all about you. That is

00:54:07.040 not the victory that we have in Christ. Actually, the good news of the gospel is so much better than what

00:54:11.820 the word of faith prosperity preachers say. The word of God. The gospel tells us that no matter what

00:54:18.300 happens in this life, no matter the loss, no matter the pain, no matter the difficulty, no matter the

00:54:23.840 poverty, that you have a God who loves you so much that he sent his son to die for you. And one day you

00:54:29.520 get to spend forever with him and there will be no more sorrow, no more sadness, no more fear, no more pain.

00:54:36.180 We are actually told that all of these trials, all these difficulties, all of this chaos the world

00:54:43.120 is going through, what are they compared to in scripture? The pangs of childbirth. And the pangs

00:54:50.240 of childbirth that we are feeling are actually reflective of the pangs of childbirth of creation

00:54:55.280 as we are eagerly awaiting the arrival of our Savior who is going to take care of the curse of sin

00:55:02.420 forever and ever. So that is where we live. That's actually where the peace comes from. Now, are there

00:55:09.420 practical ways to prepare for birth? Yes, absolutely. I hired a doula when I was in my third pregnancy

00:55:17.580 that made such a difference for me. I took childbirth classes. I prepared myself. We practiced different

00:55:24.660 like labor positions. We did everything we could to mitigate the pain before I ended up having that epidural.

00:55:31.060 And so I think there are so many ways that we can prepare for birth. I think it's okay to want to

00:55:36.040 mitigate that pain, to mitigate tearing, to try to avoid a C-section. Yes, all of that. Those are

00:55:41.280 gifts of common grace that God gives us. I think medicine can be a gift of common grace. I even

00:55:45.740 think an epidural can be a gift of common grace. I think C-sections can be a gift of common grace

00:55:49.940 when all of these things are necessary and used in the right context. But please do not think that if

00:55:55.900 you don't have a natural childbirth without bleeding, without tearing, without any trauma,

00:56:01.780 that it is because of your lack of faith, that it is because you didn't name it and claim it enough.

00:56:06.640 You didn't declare it enough. I have good news for you. You aren't that powerful.

00:56:10.520 You don't have that power. You don't. You're not Jesus. You're not God. God is not a genie.

00:56:17.120 He is powerful, and He can use your pain, use your loss, use your trials to draw you closer

00:56:22.280 to Himself. That is the truth. I hope for you that you have a comfortable birth. I do. I hope that for

00:56:29.300 you. But if not, God is still good. He loves you, and the gospel is true. And apply these truths to

00:56:38.660 every single area of your life, that we serve a sovereign and good God whose promise for us is

00:56:45.260 peace in Him, faithfulness Himself, and that one day we will escape all of the effects of sin

00:56:53.360 forevermore. That is the good news. All right. That's all we got time for. We will be back here soon.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - August 07, 2024

Ep 1047 ｜ 'Pain Free Birth：' False Promises & Bad Theology

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