Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1058 ｜ Ex-Witch Reveals LA’s Dark World of Sex Cults and Blood Offerings ｜ Guest： Jac Marino Chen

00:00:00.620 Jack Marino Chen came out of the occult and met Christ and her testimony from the time

00:00:07.380 she was a child and feeling like she was connected to these transcendent entities that she thought

00:00:12.940 were aliens into the new age and then into the occult and then out of that very dark

00:00:18.400 world and into the light of the gospel.

00:00:22.040 You are going to be so encouraged by the details of her story and just reminded of the power

00:00:28.160 of Jesus to save us from absolutely anything.

00:00:32.520 You are never too far gone.

00:00:34.800 And Jack's testimony is such a good example of that powerful truth.

00:00:42.000 Today's episode of Relatable is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers.

00:00:44.700 Go to goodranchers.com.

00:00:45.860 Use code Allie at checkout. 1.00

00:00:46.960 That's goodranchers.com, code Allie.

00:00:58.160 Jack, thanks so much for joining us.

00:01:00.960 If you could tell everyone who you are.

00:01:03.280 Well, my name is Jack and I grew up thinking I was a Christian, was sexually abused as a

00:01:09.780 child.

00:01:10.460 That left me very confused in a lot of ways and suppressing that.

00:01:15.320 And then I had a supernatural experience with what I originally thought were angels, but then

00:01:21.560 later learned about aliens and really grasped onto that as an identity and found an escape

00:01:26.980 from stuffing down the abuse in these supernatural experiences.

00:01:31.180 And then that led to escaping myself through alcohol, drugs, self-harm.

00:01:38.420 And I ended up getting in very unhealthy relationships, abusive relationships, and was introduced more

00:01:48.300 to new age ideology.

00:01:50.600 In high school, I read the book The Secret, which opened my eyes to the law of attraction.

00:01:54.740 And it was very, an exciting thought that I could control my reality.

00:01:59.340 And another bad relationship led me deeper into the new age until when that crumbled down

00:02:06.340 and I really had to be alone with myself.

00:02:08.780 I just thought I really need to get control.

00:02:11.100 And I started being influenced by these entities, believing that I was led.

00:02:19.760 One thing led to another, led to another, until I joined in a cult order called the Golden Dawn,

00:02:25.400 where we practiced ritual magic in a Freemason Lodge.

00:02:28.400 And it was there that Jesus Christ met me in that darkness and saved me.

00:02:35.300 And I've been sober now for coming up, or seven years, actually.

00:02:41.100 Wow.

00:02:41.540 Seven years.

00:02:42.360 And I'm married.

00:02:43.760 And it's been amazing that I never thought that I would smile or laugh again in the deep

00:02:50.460 darkness that I was in.

00:02:51.560 And the Lord has completely redeemed my life.

00:02:54.400 Okay.

00:02:55.160 Let's back up to the beginning.

00:02:57.280 You said that you thought that you were a Christian when you were growing up.

00:03:02.120 And so what was the religious belief of your parents?

00:03:07.000 Well, we thought, I thought that we were Christians kind of like, you're American, you're just born

00:03:13.140 into it.

00:03:13.960 Yeah.

00:03:14.060 And so I went to a Methodist preschool.

00:03:16.760 I don't remember hearing the gospel, but then again, I was very young.

00:03:19.900 Yeah.

00:03:20.280 And my idea of Jesus was someone that you imagine when you're afraid.

00:03:24.560 Just a picture of a man that I would imagine.

00:03:27.820 So I really didn't understand what it meant to be a Christian,

00:03:30.340 but really thought that I was.

00:03:34.060 And the sexual abuse happened at a very young age.

00:03:38.140 And I really stuffed it down and didn't want anyone to find out about it.

00:03:43.580 Was this a family member?

00:03:45.120 Yes.

00:03:45.960 Okay.

00:03:46.400 And how old were you?

00:03:47.900 It's hard to say.

00:03:49.120 My earliest memories are of the abuse, but for sure, when I was five, it can be.

00:03:56.640 I'm so sorry.

00:03:57.940 Thank you.

00:03:58.540 That's so, so young.

00:03:59.940 I mean, any age, it's tragic and a nightmare.

00:04:02.860 But when you're five years old, you don't even have the words, the mentality to wrap

00:04:07.860 your mind around what's happening.

00:04:09.180 And of course, you don't have the power to defend yourself either.

00:04:13.440 Right.

00:04:13.940 And I definitely experienced that.

00:04:17.420 And when I was around seven, the person who abused me was caught abusing a toddler and

00:04:22.700 was sent away.

00:04:23.680 And I just told myself, if I never think about this again, I can just believe my lie that

00:04:30.680 this didn't happen.

00:04:31.400 I was so afraid of being caught or it being found out.

00:04:35.240 I didn't have the mental wherewithal really to understand what had happened.

00:04:39.580 And I felt a lot of guilt and shame.

00:04:41.700 You thought it was kind of your fault.

00:04:43.340 Exactly.

00:04:44.140 And did you talk to your parents about it?

00:04:45.880 No.

00:04:46.540 I just totally denied it, said nothing ever happened, and really thought if I believed

00:04:52.240 that enough, I could create my own reality, you know, the Disney fairy tale kind of, I

00:04:56.380 can make my dreams come true, and if I believe this, I can make that happen.

00:05:01.040 Yeah.

00:05:01.320 It was your way of escape.

00:05:02.640 Exactly.

00:05:03.500 Yeah.

00:05:04.180 And it was around that same age of seven that I first had that supernatural experience, just

00:05:10.660 seeing lights in the sky that felt very, not just like lights, but these familiar, personal,

00:05:17.820 powerful presences.

00:05:18.700 And my only way of understanding that was, oh, they must be angels.

00:05:23.780 Angels, but then to learn about aliens, I think I really latched onto that because I

00:05:29.360 believe that they saw me, they knew me, they accepted me, and they knew what had happened

00:05:33.480 to me.

00:05:34.800 And so you were outside.

00:05:37.100 Yes.

00:05:37.420 And it was just one moment where you were outside and you looked up and you saw these

00:05:41.600 lights.

00:05:42.100 You thought, these are angels communicating with me, letting me know that I'm okay and

00:05:47.480 that they know what has happened to me.

00:05:49.260 Yes.

00:05:49.600 I was looking out over a canyon and it was just, it's kind of hard to put in where

00:05:53.760 words, but it felt so powerful, like the most powerful thing I'd experienced.

00:05:57.740 Like out-of-body experience almost.

00:05:59.920 Yes.

00:06:00.460 And I really, I truly made that my identity because it was so exciting for me and I felt

00:06:06.200 special to them.

00:06:07.760 And so I held on to that experience and ones that I continued having that were similar than

00:06:13.840 this fascination with aliens throughout my life.

00:06:16.680 So you said that you were seven at this time and that became your identity and that then

00:06:21.680 you learned about aliens.

00:06:22.960 So tell me what that looked like at such a young age.

00:06:26.100 How did that become your identity?

00:06:28.080 That's a great question.

00:06:29.340 I really started enjoying kind of being different and I started feeling like I was more influenced

00:06:37.520 towards the more devious things, things that I knew were wrong.

00:06:40.960 There was a lot of confusion that comes with childhood sexual abuse.

00:06:45.560 I gravitated towards friends who I later learned were also being abused in many cases, but I

00:06:52.480 started teaching my friends and they'd teach me what was happening with them sexually. 0.53

00:06:57.900 And so there was just so much guilt and shame and anger and things stuck, pushed down that these

00:07:07.280 escapes, these powerful moments of experience as that child gave me something to hope in, to look

00:07:13.620 forward to.

00:07:14.480 And that very small amount that I knew about Christianity, I started giving away to embrace 0.99

00:07:20.260 a worldview that had a place for these beings who were, I was special to them is what I received

00:07:27.260 from that.

00:07:28.200 And that meant something so much to me in a world where I felt like no one really knew

00:07:33.580 who I was.

00:07:35.020 And you had access to the internet at this point.

00:07:37.680 Were you using the internet to try to figure out what these powers were in your life?

00:07:43.300 Yeah.

00:07:43.660 I didn't really get access to the internet until later on.

00:07:48.100 But once I did, definitely.

00:07:51.100 Really, it was reading things or hearing other people talk about UFOs or gray aliens.

00:07:57.260 That would kind of give me the little bit here and there that I latched onto with those

00:08:02.260 experiences.

00:08:03.300 Yeah.

00:08:03.660 And when did you learn about aliens and how did you come to feel that these lights that

00:08:08.420 you had interacted with or that you felt like you interacted with were aliens, at least

00:08:13.500 according to your belief then?

00:08:14.560 Yeah.

00:08:15.500 I, it was a family member who was also very influenced with the UFO idea that I was very

00:08:23.060 close to.

00:08:23.740 And so it just kind of made sense to me.

00:08:26.860 Like something clicked that the whole angel thing was just a vague idea.

00:08:31.900 The only context that I had for it, but the idea of aliens visiting and there's this mystery

00:08:36.280 behind it and it's alluring and exciting, uh, really drew me in.

00:08:40.860 Okay.

00:08:41.340 And talk a little bit more about how that became your identity and kind of grew to be

00:08:46.820 such a dominant part of your life when you were, I'm guessing, preteen, teenage years.

00:08:51.440 I just really thought I was special to them.

00:08:55.220 And so I would kind of seek out those experiences.

00:08:57.220 I made my own Ouija boards, um, really wanting to have more contact with these beings again,

00:09:03.360 which I really thought were my friends.

00:09:04.860 Other people had imaginary friends.

00:09:06.320 I didn't get that because with these beings, I felt like I, they were actual experience.

00:09:12.260 Yeah.

00:09:12.580 And I would try to have imaginary friends, but it was just different.

00:09:15.180 So to me, these were my friends who saw me, who knew me, who loved me.

00:09:18.780 Um, and so growing up again, I continued trying to escape myself.

00:09:22.260 I had developed an eating disorder, um, in eighth grade.

00:09:26.140 I was self-harming.

00:09:27.260 I was just really becoming devious.

00:09:31.160 I really was.

00:09:32.100 And when I got to high school, I wanted to fit in with people.

00:09:37.720 I really just kept making other things my idol.

00:09:40.380 I truly didn't know who I was inside.

00:09:42.720 I didn't, the truth is like, I didn't know who God was.

00:09:47.360 I didn't know that in that pain of my abuse and what was going on and the confusion and

00:09:53.180 the things that I was doing, that there was a good God that I could run to and that Jesus

00:09:58.320 isn't just someone to imagine, but that he is this perfect savior who went to the cross

00:10:03.540 and he was tempted as, as I am.

00:10:06.600 And he was tempted as we are yet without sin.

00:10:08.800 And that on the cross, he died bearing God's wrath and my sin in my place, died, rose again,

00:10:17.760 and now has ascended to the right hand of God as the one mediator between God and man.

00:10:21.260 I had no understanding that there was a savior that I could go to, that I could run to, that

00:10:26.000 I could cast my anxieties on because he cares for me.

00:10:29.020 There was no one to go to, I thought.

00:10:30.700 I was afraid of anyone finding out who I was.

00:10:33.400 So these beings knowing me, in addition to escaping myself through any means possible,

00:10:41.400 and even in idolatrous, very confused friendships.

00:10:44.580 Um, and then I realized that if I didn't start drinking and doing drugs, I would lose those

00:10:50.260 friendships because that's what they were doing.

00:10:52.340 I forgot to mention that my dad, um, who was very close to my mom, separated from him when

00:10:59.300 I was five because he had a meth addiction and an alcohol addiction.

00:11:04.520 And so it was unsafe for us to be with him.

00:11:07.240 And so that was very hard for me.

00:11:09.120 You had a lot of turbulence.

00:11:10.560 Yes.

00:11:10.820 And a lot of confusion about who you were, who was your caretaker, like who really cared

00:11:16.560 about you.

00:11:17.160 And you're just trying to find your identity.

00:11:19.080 So it kind of, I mean, it makes sense to me that a child as young as seven would latch

00:11:24.080 on to something that they feel is a power bigger than them.

00:11:28.260 And that is steady and sees them as special because that's how you wanted to feel.

00:11:33.840 And you wanted to feel known without having to tell the people around you because of the

00:11:38.340 guilt that you felt like you bore.

00:11:41.300 Um, you talked about trying to communicate to these entities through like a Ouija board.

00:11:46.700 What other ways were you trying to communicate to them and have a relationship with them?

00:11:52.600 Yeah.

00:11:53.080 Um, it was really when I got older, it was more when I was young.

00:11:56.600 I, I was kind of afraid at some points.

00:11:59.700 It felt like they were visiting me.

00:12:01.800 I wasn't doing a whole lot of reaching out to them, but in high school, starting to take

00:12:08.140 on these more new age beliefs without knowing that that was what it was with the book, the

00:12:13.900 secret and law of attraction.

00:12:15.420 And, oh, the universe is so big.

00:12:17.360 Wow.

00:12:17.580 This is really making sense for what I've experienced and diving into that.

00:12:22.000 And then once I, I was in a, um, relationship that was very confusing, I believe to this

00:12:29.580 person was my twin flame, actually more than my twin flame.

00:12:33.860 He taught me that we lived hundreds of lives and, um, in, we were each other and that in

00:12:41.480 some of them, we sadly were sent on different quests, but we were the same being ultimately.

00:12:48.780 Yeah.

00:12:49.100 And so.

00:12:49.700 Is this teenage years or early twenties?

00:12:51.440 This is late teens.

00:12:53.980 Okay.

00:12:54.440 Yes.

00:12:55.400 And, um, that relationship was very, uh, painful, but all that to say being more introduced to

00:13:03.200 these new age ideologies, I started using, uh, now the drugs I was specifically taking

00:13:10.160 to contact these entities.

00:13:11.960 I was getting into psychedelic drugs to do that.

00:13:15.200 I was going into trances using binaural beats.

00:13:18.180 Um, what's that?

00:13:19.600 It's kind of like these different frequencies or ways that you can trigger your mind allegedly

00:13:27.000 to go into altered states of consciousness, similar to a guided meditation, but just to

00:13:30.960 try to already get your mind somewhere else.

00:13:33.940 Um, and again, this was very alluring to me because it was escaping myself now in much more powerful

00:13:42.660 ways.

00:13:47.280 Okay.

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00:15:13.780 You know, you've talked about before that some of the friendships that you had had with,

00:15:18.460 I believe they're mostly girls, right?

00:15:20.280 As a young person that they were also being sexually abused and you felt from an early age

00:15:26.840 that you also had to be sexual and that it caused a lot of sexual confusion in your life,

00:15:32.540 which really plays a part in this escapism and seeking to have communication with the

00:15:38.060 other side.

00:15:38.800 Can you talk about some of that confusion about your own identity?

00:15:42.520 Yeah.

00:15:43.280 I was really, shame was such a huge part.

00:15:47.720 Shame and guilt.

00:15:48.240 I felt so much shame and so much guilt and there is some confusion around like what is

00:15:54.580 true, what is sexual orientation confusion, what is just lust, what is, and in my case,

00:16:02.500 I think especially later on, there was just a general depravity and misunderstanding about

00:16:08.080 what sexuality is.

00:16:09.360 But there, um, I would go through these friendships and just really hope that I'd never be found

00:16:17.040 out, uh, and that you had been sexually abused or sexually abused and that there had been sexual

00:16:23.360 things going on in these friendships.

00:16:25.280 Yeah.

00:16:25.760 Um, there was so much shame in, in that.

00:16:29.280 Yeah.

00:16:29.660 And I had a friendship where the person who was, I saw as a friend, but there had been that,

00:16:35.000 um, intimacy for lack of better words, started having feelings for me and that-

00:16:41.580 Oh, this is a girl.

00:16:42.080 This is a girl.

00:16:42.840 Mm-hmm.

00:16:43.400 And there's a lot of fear that, um, that, that being public would then expose to me.

00:16:51.020 Everything else.

00:16:51.460 Yeah, exactly.

00:16:52.140 Not just the one thing, but everything that I, you know, then people will really see me

00:16:56.780 and that was terrifying to think about.

00:16:59.120 And so that confusion and just pushing it down, um, really just confusion about sexuality

00:17:05.800 and, uh, all together who I am as, as a person was driving those confusions.

00:17:12.520 Yeah.

00:17:12.900 I mean, your first introduction to sexuality was so disordered.

00:17:16.740 Right.

00:17:17.360 And I mean, there's a lot of data out there that the earlier a child is introduced to sex

00:17:23.140 inappropriate, like inappropriately like that, the more likely they are to be confused down

00:17:28.400 the line about sexuality, attractions, lust.

00:17:31.800 I mean, disorder kind of breeds disorder.

00:17:34.360 Sin can breed sin.

00:17:36.180 And it's interesting that even though you didn't grow up in a traditional Christian home,

00:17:39.700 that you still had this feeling that this is not right.

00:17:43.480 Things are messed up inside of me.

00:17:45.400 You weren't seeking the savior to save you from those things yet, but you were seeking

00:17:49.120 some kind of salvation from them.

00:17:51.240 Yes.

00:17:51.780 And I think there was just this real false gospel being preached to me, although I wouldn't

00:17:56.200 have seen it then through these beings that was like, you are special.

00:17:59.460 You have a purpose and you can be, you know, liberated from this because we have this plan

00:18:05.200 for you was really, uh, enticing and exciting.

00:18:09.520 And I think that's why I found so much identity in it.

00:18:12.220 Yeah.

00:18:12.420 So you mentioned that you kind of got into the new age, the secret, the law of attraction.

00:18:18.140 Not everyone knows that book, the secret.

00:18:20.260 I mean, it's very famous or maybe infamous.

00:18:23.800 Um, tell us a little bit about what that is and what revelations you felt that you had

00:18:27.740 when you were reading that, I think in your early twenties, I actually read this in high

00:18:31.660 school, in high school.

00:18:32.640 Okay.

00:18:32.920 So was it right around that time of that really unhealthy relationship with the twin flame

00:18:36.860 guy?

00:18:37.220 This was one relationship before that and more, um, yeah, in a different abusive relationship.

00:18:43.620 But when I read that, it talks about basically you can make your dreams come true.

00:18:49.680 Um, you can, your thoughts create your reality.

00:18:52.540 Guess what?

00:18:53.100 You actually have the power to create whatever life you want.

00:18:56.440 And you are the most important being in the universe because you can manifest whatever life

00:19:01.220 you want.

00:19:02.000 And, but it was very packaged like Barnes and Noble and, um, yeah.

00:19:07.660 Not Barnes and Noble now, but packaged in a way that it was palatable for many people.

00:19:12.860 It didn't appear occultic.

00:19:14.160 It didn't appear new age.

00:19:15.240 It was kind of self-empowerment and this is great.

00:19:18.000 And I really saw it that way.

00:19:20.220 It was interesting looking back, seeing on the first page now, it says as above, so below

00:19:26.760 the emerald tablets of Thoth, who later in my story is the entity that I was following

00:19:32.180 that got me or that I believed was the entity that I was following that got me deep, deep

00:19:37.160 into the occult.

00:19:38.020 It's pure darkness and it's just hidden on the front page.

00:19:41.300 But again, it's sold as this very glittery, beautiful girl boss.

00:19:46.720 You can create your own life.

00:19:47.920 Isn't that great?

00:19:49.140 Yes.

00:19:49.620 Oh my goodness.

00:19:50.280 Okay.

00:19:50.520 So that's how that started.

00:19:52.180 Law of attraction.

00:19:53.020 Basically, you attract what you are.

00:19:55.480 You attract what you say.

00:19:56.680 You can manifest your success by just declaring it.

00:19:59.860 And did you believe that at the time?

00:20:01.780 I did.

00:20:02.440 Which is interesting because when you, when it doesn't work, it's your fault because you,

00:20:07.780 you must've thought a negative thought somewhere along the line.

00:20:10.020 So it really does become this thing that puts you in bondage, but it sounded very freeing

00:20:15.000 that, Hey, I really don't like my life.

00:20:17.820 I mean, there were good parts of it, but generally I didn't.

00:20:21.020 And I can actually make my life be whatever it is because I have the power to be my own

00:20:25.540 God and create my own reality.

00:20:27.520 It really goes back to Genesis and just promising that the power of knowing the difference between,

00:20:34.300 you know, the, the knowledge of good and evil eating from that tree will give Eve God-like

00:20:39.720 powers that will free her. 0.90

00:20:41.440 And then obviously led to bondage.

00:20:45.000 Um, so you got into this relationship with someone who said that you were twin flames

00:20:50.960 and you kind of already explained it, but basically what that means that there is like this internal

00:20:57.700 flame between you and this other person that was always meant to be, it was eternal, as

00:21:04.140 you said, like lived a lot of different lives.

00:21:05.960 And it really doesn't matter if my understanding is correct.

00:21:09.300 If like, like twin flames could be married to different people, but they're just in the

00:21:13.420 wrong relationship.

00:21:14.100 And if you meet, you have to get together because it is almost this external, powerful,

00:21:19.340 transcendent force that is pulling you together.

00:21:21.760 Yeah.

00:21:22.400 You're like a soul tie.

00:21:24.000 Yes.

00:21:24.840 Yeah.

00:21:25.180 You're exactly right.

00:21:25.980 That's how it's explained.

00:21:26.920 And really what I believed and it, it was so ultimately I had, I made this man, my God, like

00:21:34.360 he became my religion, um, teaching me about the new age.

00:21:38.180 I believed that we were each other.

00:21:40.220 The first time that I saw him, I felt that same familiar feeling that I saw that I felt

00:21:45.060 when I first saw those entities.

00:21:46.320 And so it was this deep connection of, in a world of a lot of darkness and pain in my

00:21:52.800 world, it was like, here's this person with color and with answers and with beautiful things

00:21:57.760 to say that I hadn't heard before.

00:21:59.340 And I really dove into that until I, I became just a follower of him.

00:22:06.340 And he started to teach me, it's with him that I started trying psychedelic drugs, getting

00:22:12.520 more, and we went to new age festivals similar to Burning Man, but on smaller scales where we're,

00:22:18.060 I'm learning more about sexual liberation and polyamory and all these different, uh, new

00:22:23.580 age ideas and, um, practices like charging my crystals in the moonlight.

00:22:29.420 And, and I, again, having no, not knowing who I was finding my identity in this new thing

00:22:35.720 that promised me power to create my own reality.

00:22:38.580 And ultimately, uh, because I was serving this person so much to work off karma and become

00:22:46.400 closer together.

00:22:48.020 Yeah.

00:22:48.360 And sorry to back up a little bit because I believe this was the previous relationship,

00:22:52.240 but I'm interested in how this played a role.

00:22:54.640 The person that you had dated before this, that was also an abusive relationship.

00:22:57.840 He was native American and with that, I'm, I'm guessing there came, you know, a set of 0.99

00:23:04.600 beliefs that he had that also influenced kind of your paganism and your belief in the new

00:23:09.940 age.

00:23:10.200 Is that right?

00:23:10.860 Yes.

00:23:11.460 Um, yeah, my main quote unquote good memories of with him that weren't, uh, violent or staying

00:23:18.820 up all night on drugs on the reservation, talking about aliens and ancestors and elements and

00:23:26.820 just different things that I was learning and being taught.

00:23:30.280 And again, I still, what's amazing is I still would have said I was a Christian, even in

00:23:33.920 high school through drug abuse, alcohol abuse, living for myself, living in sin.

00:23:38.560 I would have said I was a Christian because I really didn't know what that meant.

00:23:41.840 And if someone said it, if someone confronted me, which by God's grace, a couple of people

00:23:45.860 did, I would have thought you don't, you can't judge my heart.

00:23:48.680 You don't know me.

00:23:50.500 Um, but in this relationship, I still would have said I was a Christian, but the reality

00:23:54.940 was I never knew Christ, but also the little truth that I did know, I was giving more and

00:24:01.000 more a way to embrace these ideas that, you know, it's judgmental to not embrace this new

00:24:07.920 Native American idea because they, you know, maybe they were here first or just starting

00:24:13.820 to think that maybe everything's right.

00:24:15.900 I'm just need to look at it the right way.

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00:25:30.300 And tell me how you kind of graduated, if that's even the right word, or got into what is the occult.

00:25:40.980 Because the occult and the New Age aren't necessarily the same things, right?

00:25:44.380 If you're able to explain that.

00:25:46.220 Yeah.

00:25:46.680 I personally would say that the occult is where the New Age roots are.

00:25:51.500 If you follow the New Age, you'll find the occult.

00:25:54.360 And when the relationship with this twin, quote unquote, twin flame ended, it was very awful.

00:26:03.140 I'm sure.

00:26:04.060 You felt like your whole self was wrapped up in this person.

00:26:07.040 Yes.

00:26:07.660 Yes.

00:26:08.220 And I had just moved to Hollywood and gotten a studio apartment to be closer to him.

00:26:12.940 And then I got the call that it was over, but he was coming back for me.

00:26:17.280 And I was left with, in a like a spiritual sense or like, like I'm breaking up with you,

00:26:24.720 but because we're twin flames, we'll find our way back to each other kind of thing.

00:26:28.400 Yes.

00:26:29.200 That's, ugh.

00:26:30.120 It was very confusing.

00:26:31.880 Yes.

00:26:33.080 And it was, it was both the spiritual and the physical, I'm coming back for you.

00:26:37.140 Just need to make something of myself.

00:26:38.900 You should, you know, keep doing drugs to wait for me so that it'll pass faster.

00:26:42.860 And just these, these things, but I really believed them to the extent that now that I'm

00:26:47.020 married, to be honest, uh, or I guess I should say to be completely vulnerable, it was really

00:26:53.300 hard for me to take that step because there was still this lie that I'd harbored for years.

00:26:58.840 Like he's coming back for me.

00:27:00.800 So there was a lot of, it was hard for you to take the step of marriage because, you know,

00:27:06.140 Satan had just embedded that twin flame idea in your mind.

00:27:09.460 Wow.

00:27:09.760 That's such, such bondage.

00:27:11.260 Yes.

00:27:11.880 And so graduating when, when it did end being, I mean, I really snapped, which I already was

00:27:19.620 pretty deep in it, but I snapped thinking I, at this time, my dad was homeless on the

00:27:25.960 streets in LA and when it would rain, it would just destroy me thinking about him because

00:27:29.620 I was his responsible party and there's a lot of pain and this isn't working by God's

00:27:36.420 grace when I was in the new age and at these festivals, you know, there would be Tantra

00:27:42.160 yoga tents and basically like pagan orgy kind of things going on.

00:27:47.460 And the idea that you need to embrace your sexual liberation, sexual freedom.

00:27:52.920 And there were just some things that I couldn't do.

00:27:55.920 There was a restraint there that I just felt so wrong to me that I couldn't do it.

00:28:02.300 And that made me really upset because I thought that my Christian dogma, Christian dogma was

00:28:07.600 holding me back from being truly free and truly liberated.

00:28:10.260 So I'd be so upset with myself that I couldn't be who my twin flame wanted me to be or who

00:28:16.420 I thought I would fit in more with these people if I could be.

00:28:19.140 But when the relationship ended, I just thought I need to ultimately I wanted to sear my conscience.

00:28:26.820 I wanted to push it all down and just go in and find where the real power was because

00:28:30.880 manifesting my reality wasn't working out so well.

00:28:34.160 And so that really looked like me locking myself in the studio apartment, using drugs,

00:28:41.040 spending all of my time researching whatever I was led to in that twin flame relationship.

00:28:47.460 I had really believed that these entities wanted to see through my eyes, not thinking of that

00:28:53.160 as possession, just thinking, you know, I've known these entities.

00:28:57.380 They're my friends.

00:28:58.440 They're so familiar throughout childhood.

00:29:00.260 And I'm just special.

00:29:01.600 And they just want to use my body and see through my eyes.

00:29:04.180 And it's interesting because if you had just dropped in there, it sounds so clearly bad.

00:29:11.800 But having been my whole life kind of working up to this, it just made the next logical step

00:29:17.580 made sense.

00:29:19.640 And so diving into all that then now, just diving into it more, I got into something called

00:29:25.460 lucid dreaming, where I was practicing waking up in my dreams so that I could control my dreams

00:29:31.780 and go on these astral planes and meet my spirit guides and learn more knowledge and something

00:29:37.280 called-

00:29:37.500 By yourself mostly?

00:29:38.480 Yes, I was very isolated, would have a hard time having conversations with people.

00:29:45.520 I was not in my right mind at all.

00:29:48.240 Yeah.

00:29:49.100 Something called-

00:29:49.980 I'm so sorry.

00:29:51.060 No, go ahead.

00:29:51.720 Go ahead.

00:29:52.220 Something called astral projection, also doing similar kind of things.

00:29:56.400 And I also was led to this entity called Thoth and something called the Emerald Tablets of

00:30:01.780 Thoth.

00:30:02.080 And I'd strung a clothesline across my studio apartment and painted the words on it.

00:30:07.240 And I was just so obsessed trying to find the secret knowledge and the next key to unlock

00:30:12.800 the powers to the universe.

00:30:13.960 And you said that these entities that you still thought were aliens at this point, they wanted

00:30:22.220 to see through your eyes.

00:30:23.840 You felt like they were telling you that?

00:30:25.840 Yeah.

00:30:26.540 And did that happen?

00:30:29.060 Did you ever have a moment where you felt like, okay, they're in?

00:30:31.920 Fleeting moments.

00:30:35.000 I think that sometimes, especially in meditative states, I would feel more connected with them

00:30:42.120 in that way.

00:30:42.800 But there was, as I got deeper and deeper into it, I remember looking at my eyes in the mirror,

00:30:50.700 like just meeting my gaze and just my blood running cold with fear of like, I do not recognize

00:30:56.400 whatever is behind my eyes.

00:30:57.760 That's not me.

00:31:00.060 And, but still thinking, I need to go into the darkness and shine the light of knowledge

00:31:05.880 and all these words that I'd learned to feel the fear and do it anyway.

00:31:09.500 So I kept pressing on in that.

00:31:12.180 And yeah, there were, I started channeling.

00:31:16.840 I would write things like, I'm an alien watching through the eyes of a girl.

00:31:20.700 And just very dark things, uh, really getting more and more depraved as well.

00:31:26.800 Yeah.

00:31:27.120 And then what led you into the occult?

00:31:30.600 I continued.

00:31:32.540 It was, it's kind of strange, but it was like every, the next thing would glow, physically

00:31:39.300 glow because I was so out of my mind.

00:31:42.000 Um, I didn't know what was physical reality and what was just, uh, me seeing things, you

00:31:49.020 know, that weren't really there.

00:31:51.240 And so things would glow.

00:31:53.280 I was walking down the street and I saw a Freemason lodge and that glowed.

00:31:57.520 So that got me more into the, uh, Masonic texts, Kabbalistic texts.

00:32:02.500 And I don't know, we, I don't really know what Freemason is or what Masonic texts are.

00:32:07.660 So can you give us just a brief explainer?

00:32:10.740 Yeah.

00:32:10.920 So Freemasonry, um, I, I get a lot of pushback when I talk about Freemasonry because Freemasonry

00:32:16.840 is for men.

00:32:18.620 Uh, they do have other orders that I actually reached out to the Freemason lodge.

00:32:23.320 It's, it's, uh, I think they would call themselves more of a fraternity, like a brotherhood.

00:32:28.100 Um, but it is a secret society.

00:32:30.220 Uh, ultimately I think that it has a lot to do with idolatry and Gnosticism, uh, but secret

00:32:36.820 society.

00:32:37.280 And when I reached out to them, they recommended me to the Eastern star, which is their order

00:32:42.180 for women that also goes into very secret, um, secret teachings, uh, there, but the order 0.99

00:32:49.920 that I ended up getting involved in called the golden dawn was started by three master

00:32:55.700 masons and, uh, brought a lot of Masonic ideas and symbolism because Freemasonry can be very

00:33:03.060 ritualistic and theatrical.

00:33:04.400 Also brought in Rosicrucianism, which is another, uh, philosophy kind of taking, it's an esoteric

00:33:11.980 philosophy.

00:33:12.860 So I've heard it said that what Rosicrucians kind of think about or use as a philosophy,

00:33:19.360 but the golden dawn would practice.

00:33:22.760 And so I ended up being led to the golden dawn, which took a lot of, really, I ended up being

00:33:29.620 led there because I saw these tarot cards that were glowing and they were the, ended up being

00:33:33.680 the Thoth tarot deck by a man named Alistair Crowley.

00:33:36.880 Um, and he's known as the most wicked man to have ever lived.

00:33:40.660 He is, uh, he actually popularized a lot of wicked things here in America.

00:33:46.720 Um, but like, like what?

00:33:49.300 Um, well, bringing the occult over here, but Alistair Crowley's, uh, form of magic and was

00:33:58.620 so gross, uh, a lot to do with the belief that sexual fluids have more magical power.

00:34:05.560 So, uh.

00:34:06.480 Is this sex magic?

00:34:07.920 This would be, um, but he would even take that to the nth degree, uh, including children.

00:34:14.820 Very, very awful things that, uh, are, are said about him.

00:34:19.360 Um, and he brought that here to the United States.

00:34:22.820 Yeah.

00:34:23.140 At least popularized it.

00:34:24.800 Yeah.

00:34:25.100 Um, and I believe he was on the Beatles cover, Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band.

00:34:31.460 And he's, he was very, uh, pushed by the music industry at one point.

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00:36:08.560 So Alistair Crowley, you said that's his name.

00:36:12.140 You saw these tarot cards or tarot cards.

00:36:15.200 Where did you see them?

00:36:16.700 I was just at a metaphysical shop.

00:36:18.600 Okay.

00:36:19.020 You saw them.

00:36:20.140 You felt like they started glowing.

00:36:21.380 As you said, you thought that these entities were kind of showing you the direction to

00:36:26.600 go, the things to buy, what to focus on based on glowing.

00:36:29.900 You, you saw the Freemasonry Lodge, which was glowing.

00:36:33.740 So you felt like, okay, I got to go that direction.

00:36:36.120 That's how you found the Golden Dawn occult.

00:36:38.380 One thing led to another.

00:36:39.540 And then you found these tarot cards, which you said were tarot cards of Thoth, which was

00:36:44.460 the entity that was at the beginning of that secret book, right?

00:36:47.420 Yes.

00:36:47.900 It feels like one of those weird, like, no, yeah, but I'm just making sure that everyone

00:36:51.680 has it kind of mapped because yeah, Satan uses these things and pieces them together and

00:36:58.180 kind of like an upside down of what can be like a beautiful testimony of redemption is

00:37:04.400 also like a testimony of, of darkness for those that he's trying to lead astray.

00:37:08.880 And so that's how all of those pieces kind of came together.

00:37:12.280 So you're in this metaphysical shop, you see these tarot cards, you feel like they're

00:37:16.060 glowing, they're created by this very, very evil, pedophilic, sexually predatory, so-called

00:37:22.740 magician, Alistair Crowley, you buy the tarot cards.

00:37:26.560 Yes.

00:37:27.000 And then what happens from there?

00:37:28.720 Yeah.

00:37:29.140 I just spent almost all of my time trying to take the images into my psyche, trying to

00:37:36.640 really take this tarot deck in and started dreaming about them, started practicing tarot.

00:37:43.280 So, and from that deck and the Alistair Crowley information is how I learned about the Golden

00:37:49.680 Dawn, really, how I got introduced and felt that definitely played a big part in me feeling

00:37:56.100 like this was the next step, was joining this Golden Dawn.

00:37:59.380 And Alistair Crowley was in the Golden Dawn, the original Golden Dawn.

00:38:02.800 And so I really thought, okay, this is the most wicked man to ever live.

00:38:10.220 I tried to make my own justifications of what is good and what is evil and trying to say,

00:38:17.140 well, I was going to join the Eastern Star.

00:38:21.160 I have family members that were involved in Freemasonry and that was one of the things they're

00:38:26.120 involved in.

00:38:26.620 So that sounds good, but their symbol is of an upside down pentagram.

00:38:30.420 So that's bad.

00:38:32.520 But the Golden Dawn has a cross symbol, at least a cross involved in the symbol.

00:38:37.700 So that must be good.

00:38:38.980 But I kept just-

00:38:40.600 Yes.

00:38:41.680 Thinking that I just, it took me a while and a lot of back and forth before really reaching

00:38:48.500 out.

00:38:48.820 And I, there was an order in my area.

00:38:53.000 The original Golden Dawn ended a long time ago, but now there are people who have orders.

00:38:57.820 And I was living in LA at the time that had an order where they practiced the same magical

00:39:02.140 system.

00:39:03.120 And so reached out to them and a man asked me to meet him at a coffee shop in Silver Lake.

00:39:09.300 And when we started talking, everything that he was saying to me was exactly what I'd been

00:39:15.260 led to from astrology, Kabbalah, the Egyptian deities, tarot, all these things was exactly

00:39:24.720 what I had been being led to.

00:39:26.860 So it was like, wow, this man's speaking my language.

00:39:28.700 I can actually have a conversation with this person.

00:39:30.720 Um, and I was really excited and the words like you were called to this, uh, were used.

00:39:36.620 So it just, it felt like I was about to get in on the secret club that my alien entities, 0.79

00:39:41.900 my friends had been preparing me for.

00:39:45.740 What were some other things that he was saying that resonated with you?

00:39:49.840 It was really the way that he spoke in a very like deep, esoteric way, talking about the

00:39:56.360 great work.

00:39:57.040 I, I'd been practicing alchemy, which has to do with the great work.

00:40:00.720 Um, what's the great work?

00:40:02.700 It's kind of what they call the work of, um, of being in this magical order.

00:40:09.060 You're, you're doing the great work.

00:40:10.800 Alchemy is also called the great work and it has a lot to do with something called transmuting

00:40:15.240 where you're taking gross matter and it's being transmuted to gold, but more in a, your

00:40:21.540 soul allegedly is going from being on this lower level to you go through transmutation until

00:40:27.980 you become basically gold.

00:40:30.700 It's like demonic sanctification.

00:40:32.500 Yes.

00:40:33.140 Yes.

00:40:33.900 Okay.

00:40:34.220 Um, and so it was really exciting for someone to, to be talking about the things that I so

00:40:39.240 deeply believed was my next step.

00:40:41.600 This, so this is the moment that you felt finally all that I've been working toward, that I've

00:40:48.680 been listening to all of the, even the drugs that I've been doing, the painting in my apartment

00:40:52.940 that has led me to this moment.

00:40:54.360 It felt like divine providence.

00:40:56.660 Yes.

00:40:57.100 And so what happened from there?

00:40:59.200 Um, I was asked to go to a Freemason Lodge to be initiated and I was so excited.

00:41:05.740 And, um, I remember I was listening to the soundtrack for Fantasmic on the way there because

00:41:11.180 I felt like all the sorcery and the themes in Disney, I finally understood what they meant

00:41:15.380 and I was going to go live it out, um, for real though.

00:41:18.920 And like, I, I truly wasn't afraid.

00:41:21.820 I was just excited and they had me, um, yeah, when I got there, there was a woman on the 0.99

00:41:28.080 top of the stairs waiting for me in a full black robe with a hood.

00:41:32.900 And, um, did that scare you at all?

00:41:34.600 Or were you kind of used to that kind of imagery?

00:41:36.520 Yeah, I was, it made sense given all the things I'd been studying and pouring my life into.

00:41:42.460 I wasn't working at the time other than, you know, DoorDash here and there.

00:41:45.580 I was being supported by my family.

00:41:47.000 So all my time went into obsessively studying these things.

00:41:51.020 Um, so it just made sense, uh, and I was put in a room.

00:41:57.000 I was also put in a black robe.

00:41:59.320 I had to wear red socks and I was told not so much to pray, but to meditate, to prepare

00:42:04.460 myself for this, for this ritual.

00:42:07.240 Um, and the ritual itself, I was hoodwinked, so I couldn't see.

00:42:12.820 And it was very dark.

00:42:15.040 A lot of it had to do with taking John 1, 5 out of context.

00:42:18.560 Um, the idea that you're going into the darkness to shine the light of knowledge in it, the

00:42:23.700 secret knowledge.

00:42:25.120 Um, a lot of, uh, symbolism to do with duality, darkness and light and ancient Egyptian hermeticism.

00:42:33.260 And, um, there was a sword put to my neck swearing that I would never share what I learned.

00:42:40.060 And a lot of, uh, scary, very scary.

00:42:43.760 I didn't think it was scary at the time.

00:42:45.460 You thought it was sacred.

00:42:46.660 Yes.

00:42:47.020 Thought it was serious.

00:42:47.900 Yes.

00:42:48.260 And I'd also been in a sorority where they're, you know, they're similar like theatrics and

00:42:52.440 don't tell anyone.

00:42:53.400 So I, I remember telling one of them like, oh, I'm not scared of, I went through something

00:42:57.660 similar.

00:42:58.600 Um, but to me, again, it made sense.

00:43:01.200 There was a heaviness to it.

00:43:02.460 Like it felt like you're saying sacred, but, but yeah, so I was initiated.

00:43:07.580 I took a lot of pride in thinking that I was again, special, had been called to this and

00:43:14.180 I continued going to the Masonic lodge to do, uh, to practice, to learn.

00:43:20.660 Um, and there was a time where we spent like 12 hour days for a couple of days, all just

00:43:27.840 doing invocation rituals, sigils, um, learning hermetic magic.

00:43:34.720 And I would have still said I was a Christian, which is amazing.

00:43:39.620 I would bow down to a golden idol before entering this room.

00:43:44.740 I would, um, these invocations of these demonic entities were bowing my face down before golden

00:43:52.140 idols.

00:43:52.560 And we'd take communion, it makes me emotional, but we'd take communion, um, or they call it

00:43:58.720 Eucharist to Osiris, who's an Egyptian deity, um, with bread and wine.

00:44:04.460 And I, I thought I was getting closer to Christ because that's what we were told.

00:44:08.440 Uh, we would use the name Jesus Christ, but Jesus was someone that you become someone that

00:44:13.160 you attain to.

00:44:14.160 I just thought I had a deeper understanding of what it meant to be Christian, but I was worshiping 0.89

00:44:18.320 demons and I was becoming more and more depraved sexually.

00:44:22.560 Um, and in every other way, my gender, uh, or not my gender, but my sexual identity, I got

00:44:29.760 involved in sex magic, um, which really came with it.

00:44:34.920 The, my belief, which is taught that the height of sexual, uh, you know, pleasure is a more

00:44:42.140 powerful time to manifest.

00:44:43.520 So it was still the law of attraction.

00:44:45.120 And it's just, if you go down to its core, how the original teaching is more so to practice

00:44:51.700 it, um, just absolutely wicked.

00:44:55.200 I, are they like orgies with people of all different kinds of genders?

00:44:59.220 I, I personally didn't partake in, in, um, in them with other people, but in my own, uh,

00:45:06.880 in my own practice, um, was practicing that.

00:45:11.140 So, because the thought is that like orgasm gives you greater access to the supernatural

00:45:17.480 and you can more effectively manifest what you want.

00:45:22.520 Yeah.

00:45:22.720 It's seen as a very powerful energy that at that point, if you hold in your mind, the thing

00:45:28.640 that you're trying to manifest that that moment is the most powerful moment to manifest that.

00:45:33.580 Also, I, I, I was very unhealthy from the drug use and all that.

00:45:37.480 So I didn't personally have a cycle, but I really wanted to, because the idea of menstrual

00:45:41.920 blood is seen as powerful, powerful for releasing and powerful blood in general, powerful for magical

00:45:49.080 practices.

00:45:49.560 So when I see people doing things like abortion rituals or, um, releasing, you know, seeing

00:45:56.780 it as a, as a practice, as a something magical, it makes sense with the lies that I was believing

00:46:03.540 back then, which is, um, so upsetting.

00:46:06.220 But when you really get into the occult and you see like the belief system regarding blood,

00:46:12.200 regarding sexual things, regarding duality and fluidity and, um, none of what I'm seeing

00:46:19.120 in the culture is surprising.

00:46:24.860 Last sponsor for the day is pre-born.

00:46:27.740 So I get so many questions from you guys asking me, like, how can I get involved?

00:46:31.220 How can I push back against abortion?

00:46:33.920 Like I'm going to vote and I am going to try to convince my friends to be pro-life, but

00:46:39.320 what else can I do?

00:46:40.820 Well, you can partner with pregnancy centers.

00:46:43.660 You can partner with clinics like pre-born, which is a network of clinics across the country

00:46:47.720 that offers free resources to pregnant moms in need.

00:46:51.280 And one of the most consequential things that they offer these women is a free ultrasound. 0.99

00:46:55.620 When a woman sees her baby in the womb through that sonogram, when she hears that beating

00:47:01.140 heart, she is so much more likely to choose life because all of the lies that she's been 0.99

00:47:05.140 hearing from the abortion lobby, that it's just a clump of cells.

00:47:08.180 Well, those are completely washed away by the reality that this is a life inside her that

00:47:13.240 is depending on her to grow and to survive and thrive.

00:47:18.740 And so that's why pre-born exists.

00:47:20.680 You can donate just $28 that covers the cost of a sonogram and can save a life, but whatever

00:47:26.920 you can donate helps, whether it's $5, maybe it's $5,000.

00:47:31.680 You can make a difference.

00:47:33.140 Go to preborn.com slash Allie.

00:47:37.720 That's preborn.com slash Allie. 0.81

00:47:39.960 Talk a little bit more about that abortion ritual, because shockingly, I saw a post by

00:47:50.760 Cosmopolitan on Instagram, I think last year is when we talked about it, that was basically

00:47:58.600 talking about abortion like a satanic ritual.

00:48:02.120 And yeah, we have it up right there.

00:48:04.460 Satanic abortion ceremony. 0.55

00:48:05.980 We've actually seen the satanic temple try to carve out exceptions in states that have 0.67

00:48:13.820 passed pro-life legislation, carve out exceptions for religious freedom for them to say, well,

00:48:18.540 it is part of our religious freedom to sacrifice basically unborn babies.

00:48:23.680 And so you're saying that that whole thing doesn't surprise you because they see blood as

00:48:30.180 powerful and also, I guess, child sacrifice.

00:48:34.200 So is that something you saw and experienced?

00:48:36.880 Yeah.

00:48:37.420 It was more something that I believed and saw in terms of what I was learning and more

00:48:44.900 as a philosophy.

00:48:46.200 I didn't get to the point where it was being practiced, but if it had started to, praise

00:48:52.140 God that I was saved before then, but if it had started to, it would have made sense to

00:48:55.920 me.

00:48:57.960 Yeah.

00:48:58.360 Based on what I was fully believing and thought was good.

00:49:02.800 I didn't think it was wrong.

00:49:03.900 I thought it was good.

00:49:04.740 That can be so disturbing about this is I thought it was good that you are God of your own body

00:49:12.220 and why would you let a man tell you that there's something wrong with using your own blood for

00:49:18.820 magical practices or using your body autonomously was seen as a way to conduct magic.

00:49:27.120 And it was also glorified that, you know, we're going back to our pagan roots and just

00:49:31.260 seen almost hand in hand with woman empowerment, self-empowerment, ultimately, again, making

00:49:37.160 yourself out to be God.

00:49:38.720 Yeah.

00:49:38.960 And it just reminds me that it is, once again, a subversion, a perversion of what Jesus said

00:49:45.260 because Jesus spilled his own blood.

00:49:48.780 He gave his own flesh as a sacrifice once and for all that covers our sin.

00:49:53.320 But the occult is saying you have to spill your blood.

00:49:56.780 You have to give your body to make a sacrifice to whatever deity it is and in that you will receive

00:50:04.920 the power to be your own God.

00:50:07.900 Yes.

00:50:08.040 So it's this kind of, as you said, self-deification and self-worship and being your own savior,

00:50:17.560 which we hear that language a lot in non-occult spaces and very beautiful female empowerment 1.00

00:50:26.860 spaces.

00:50:27.940 We hear that from people like Glennon Doyle.

00:50:30.020 We hear that from people like Rachel Hollis. 0.87

00:50:32.000 We hear that from people like Brene Brown, all these beautiful, blonde, wealthy, successful 1.00

00:50:37.520 women who seem to, at least in some cases, have these great relationships that whether 0.98

00:50:42.780 they're saying those words or not, they are saying the same message that you can get what

00:50:48.260 you want by loving yourself enough.

00:50:50.360 And by being your own leader, being your own God, following your heart, you can basically

00:50:55.840 manifest the life that you want.

00:50:57.420 And if you love yourself enough, it will unlock all of these inner powers that you have inside

00:51:02.600 to manifest good things.

00:51:04.620 Is that a parallel that you see in the mainstream?

00:51:08.460 Yes, absolutely.

00:51:09.880 And knowing where it comes from is so disturbing because, well, one, you know where it comes

00:51:14.860 from.

00:51:15.060 It goes back to Genesis 3.

00:51:16.520 It is that lie that, you know, you can be your own God.

00:51:19.620 And for me, learning the knowledge of both good and evil, your eyes will be opened and

00:51:24.700 you'll become like God.

00:51:25.800 And also to what you're saying, again, the teaching was Jesus is a type to become.

00:51:32.280 It diminishes Jesus.

00:51:33.560 It cuts away his deity or that he's preeminent or the truth about who he is.

00:51:38.020 And instead, it's self-empowerment.

00:51:39.980 And even whether it's your blood or someone else's blood, again, stripping from the Bible,

00:51:45.900 that it has power.

00:51:47.160 And so much of what we're doing in that Freemason ritual room was taking the Bible like we would 0.99

00:51:53.720 during rituals use like a Psalm, Psalm 51, I believe.

00:51:58.660 But in Latin or Kabbalah and Gematria basically says, you know, the Bible, yes, but you have

00:52:06.400 to read it in a code and the Hebrew letters have numerical value and it's all this secret.

00:52:11.140 The Bible becomes secret knowledge and doing banishing rituals, saying the names of God, 0.53

00:52:17.100 like the Hebrew names of God and the Lord's Prayer to perform occult rituals, trying to

00:52:25.360 take as though also the ritual room was set up like the tabernacle.

00:52:30.080 So it's like taking from the Bible and trying to suck power for me.

00:52:34.720 Like I want to make my own will be done.

00:52:37.400 There's power here.

00:52:38.540 And then totally perverting the Bible again to make you God.

00:52:43.240 It's truly Luciferianism at heart and was so entrapping because thinking, no, we are using

00:52:51.360 the Bible and learning the names of God and Hebrew and all these things.

00:52:53.860 I am a Christian.

00:52:55.420 I just have the secret knowledge that you don't.

00:52:58.420 And so, again, if you would have, I would have talked about Jesus, God, the Bible, being

00:53:03.720 a Christian, but my definitions of all those terms and the way that I was practicing it

00:53:08.620 was opposed to God and completely different.

00:53:11.160 Talk about Christ consciousness.

00:53:13.800 Yes.

00:53:14.760 That, yeah, that goes into the same idea.

00:53:17.240 That word tends to be more with the new age, but the idea that Christ is like this consciousness,

00:53:23.920 like almost that he attained this level of consciousness that you can too and step into

00:53:29.720 that power.

00:53:30.760 Almost the idea of as Christ was, you can be if you just are as he is and ascend to that

00:53:38.600 level.

00:53:39.360 And a lot of the time it has to do with your higher power and awakening.

00:53:43.200 But usually those awakening ways are very new age, very Eastern.

00:53:48.420 And again, cutting away at who Jesus is, he's no longer the savior you are because you can be

00:53:54.960 him, which is a total lie and could have never saved me.

00:53:58.820 I was getting deeper and deeper into darkness.

00:54:02.940 Yes.

00:54:03.220 And I've seen people who would say that they're Christians, but then I see that language of 0.92

00:54:10.800 Christ consciousness or becoming Christ, not becoming like Christ, but taking on, becoming

00:54:17.420 the mind of Christ, which really doesn't mean following after his words in scripture.

00:54:22.600 It really means, as you said, becoming a little God and attaining to the highest form of humanity

00:54:30.400 or even transcending that.

00:54:32.920 How did you get out of the occult and come to Christ?

00:54:36.700 Yeah.

00:54:38.080 Well, I was deep into practicing that.

00:54:41.180 It was my whole life.

00:54:42.980 And I just had moments of realizing how depraved I was.

00:54:47.260 There was a moment where I looked in the mirror again and I heard this voice saying,

00:54:50.620 it's crazy how evil becomes you, but it was this voice that was not my own.

00:54:55.840 And it was very upsetting to say the least.

00:54:59.800 But I had thought this might be evil what I'm doing.

00:55:03.400 I don't really know, but I can just go back to doing what's right later.

00:55:07.260 Like I thought there's a difference between doing something that might be evil and being

00:55:11.580 evil.

00:55:11.920 But it was in that moment I realized like who I am inside, like constantly doing evil

00:55:17.680 things like there's, this is way worse than I thought.

00:55:22.120 And again, in the order we were practicing things that involve the Bible.

00:55:27.160 And I just read the Bhagavad Gita, which is a Hindu text as it is, which is a very, very

00:55:32.380 long, basically their scripture with commentary.

00:55:35.420 So I was very prideful thinking I read that I might as well read the Bible.

00:55:38.620 It's just another, it's just another one of sacred texts and there must be something to

00:55:44.560 it because that's what we're using here.

00:55:46.880 And I read that you can tell a tree by its fruit.

00:55:50.780 I probably was in Matthew seven and I didn't really know what that meant, but I knew it

00:55:56.880 pierced me that the fruit of the people in this order, including me, but even the highest

00:56:02.220 up in the order, they're just as depraved as me.

00:56:05.100 They're, um, they're taking cigarette breaks.

00:56:08.140 Not like that has anything to do with salvation, but if they can control the universe, like

00:56:13.420 why are they addicted to cigarettes?

00:56:14.600 Just little things that didn't quite add up.

00:56:17.620 And also just knowing that they're just as broken as me kind of gave me pause.

00:56:23.500 And then another thing was I read, uh, in second Corinthians 11, 14, that Satan masquerades

00:56:29.280 as an angel of light.

00:56:30.320 And I kept thinking, how can this be bad?

00:56:32.900 It's light work or, uh, making excuses.

00:56:35.740 But when I read that, I realized, no, Satan is behind this.

00:56:40.940 Um, I, I always felt that deep down, but I wanted to find out for myself.

00:56:44.720 I, I didn't mention this, but I had these abduction experiences.

00:56:50.300 Um, well, one abduction experience, multiple contact experiences, and the abduction was the

00:56:55.280 first time that I thought maybe these are evil, uh, very scary things.

00:56:59.180 So that there'd been that little bit of doubt that made me think, uh, maybe evil was behind

00:57:04.560 this.

00:57:04.820 And reading that verse again, pierced my heart where I realized, no, Satan is behind what

00:57:09.900 I'm doing.

00:57:10.260 But I was still so prideful that I didn't turn from my, what I was doing.

00:57:14.500 Um, and then one night I remembered Genesis three.

00:57:19.160 I, I just remembered that the lie, the lie in the garden was that if you eat from the tree

00:57:25.140 of the knowledge of good and evil, your eyes will be opened and you'll be like God knowing

00:57:29.140 good and evil.

00:57:30.160 And I just knew that Satan is behind this.

00:57:34.280 It led to the fall.

00:57:35.500 It wasn't actually a good thing.

00:57:37.100 And it's leading to a great fall in my life.

00:57:39.820 I was so lost.

00:57:42.340 Um, and, but still I didn't turn.

00:57:45.600 I just thought, I don't know who I am apart from this.

00:57:48.360 Like, I, I don't know who I am.

00:57:49.980 This is all that I know.

00:57:51.580 So I just kept going.

00:57:53.800 And then one night, um, in my studio apartment, it was just like any other night.

00:57:57.920 And I was walking across and I was spiritually attacked, which would happen. 0.95

00:58:02.960 And I fell to my knees and it felt like my soul was being sucked out into just utter darkness

00:58:09.020 and I had no control over it.

00:58:10.760 And I cried out, Jesus Christ saved me.

00:58:13.680 And, um, and I meant it.

00:58:16.020 And in that moment, just like that, I felt the peace that I'd been longing for my entire

00:58:22.060 life.

00:58:22.880 And I knew that it was the God of the Bible, the father, the son, and the Holy spirit who,

00:58:27.900 who saved me, who delivered me from that attack.

00:58:31.020 And that it was not hard for him.

00:58:33.620 All that darkness that I was tied up in that I thought I would never escape.

00:58:37.040 It was not hard for him to deliver me from.

00:58:38.900 And I was shaking because I realized if the God of the Bible is real, which he is, then

00:58:45.780 he says that sorcery is an abomination and divination, all these practices that I'm doing.

00:58:51.060 This is scary.

00:58:53.160 So I got out my Bible and I started reading it, uh, still thinking I had the secret knowledge,

00:58:58.260 but it didn't matter because as I was reading it, it was like I was being filled.

00:59:03.580 Like I was actually eating.

00:59:04.700 Whereas every other thing that I read, it would leave me hungrier and emptier and I would

00:59:08.720 keep searching and searching and searching, always learning, never coming to the knowledge

00:59:11.660 of the truth.

00:59:12.700 But with this, it was like satisfying me.

00:59:16.040 And, um, I just kept reading it and reading it and really to learn, to learn that God is

00:59:22.740 holy.

00:59:23.180 I didn't understand that.

00:59:24.440 I thought God, I could be God.

00:59:26.140 God was just like me, but that God has given me every good thing that I've ever had.

00:59:30.500 Um, and yet I have sinned against this holy God, uh, truly in my case, it's very clear

00:59:36.240 for me to see that I sinned, but that I'd sinned against God and that there's a just punishment

00:59:41.860 for sin.

00:59:42.400 I really, I did in a sense have a sense of impending doom, like fear, but learning that the, the

00:59:49.820 punishment for sin is just, and it is a very real place called hell, but that God is love

00:59:54.780 and that he sent Jesus Christ, not me, not someone that you can be, but Jesus Christ,

01:00:00.700 God incarnate coming to earth, living a perfect life that I clearly did not live, even though

01:00:07.380 he was tempted as I was.

01:00:08.580 And then going to the cross, despising the shame, being beaten, mocked, scourged and crucified

01:00:14.100 and then dying on that cross.

01:00:17.420 And that on that cross, he bore my sin.

01:00:19.260 Like this, me bowing down to those golden idols, me living this lifestyle, he bore that

01:00:25.940 in my place and that he bore God's wrath for that in my place.

01:00:28.980 And that he died and rose again as a one mediator between God and man.

01:00:33.040 And reading that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, and no one comes to the father

01:00:37.380 except through him.

01:00:38.600 I'd been trying to find all these back doors.

01:00:40.860 None of them worked.

01:00:41.660 But that when I repented of my sin and turned from my rebellion against this God who, again,

01:00:48.460 has given me every good thing that I've ever received and put my faith in Christ alone for

01:00:52.960 my salvation, that I could be washed white as snow.

01:00:55.400 That reality was stunning to me because I knew that I was dirty.

01:01:00.660 And to be made a new creation in Christ, that there's no condemnation in Christ, that you're

01:01:06.500 born again, the reality of that was so, I mean, beyond amazing to me.

01:01:13.960 And then I just kept reading it.

01:01:16.260 I locked myself away.

01:01:17.520 I realized for the first time I could get sober.

01:01:19.520 I'd been addicted for many, many, many years.

01:01:22.160 Thought I would die an addict.

01:01:24.120 I just got sober.

01:01:25.640 I knew that the Lord was with me.

01:01:27.360 He was with me and spoke to me through his word.

01:01:30.600 And I could run to him in prayer.

01:01:32.800 And then, yeah, I've just been following him.

01:01:35.800 And I'm truly amazed at who God truly is, which is so, he is so much better than I could

01:01:42.160 have never been God.

01:01:43.400 I could have never saved myself.

01:01:44.680 I could have never pulled myself up by the bootstraps.

01:01:46.780 But God truly saved me and has given me new life in him and healed me from so, so many

01:01:53.820 things.

01:01:54.980 And so you left the occult.

01:01:57.500 Yeah.

01:01:58.300 And you started going to church.

01:02:00.320 Tell us about one of the first churches that you walked into.

01:02:04.840 And you realized, if I remember correctly, that this was actually not a church that she

01:02:10.560 wanted to end up at.

01:02:11.960 And it's interesting to me that you had that discernment.

01:02:14.180 Oh, yeah.

01:02:15.040 Well, I was really hungry.

01:02:16.240 And I'd been reading the word for a while and listening to some sermons before actually

01:02:20.460 taking that step of going to a church.

01:02:23.020 And I was living in Hollywood at the time, right in the center of Hollywood, and the closest

01:02:27.280 church to me, I just thought, oh, I'll go.

01:02:29.060 All churches are probably the same.

01:02:30.800 It was a Methodist church.

01:02:32.680 And I mean, it was a female pastor. 1.00

01:02:36.640 And all that she talked about was how they were going to get more LBGTQ rights in the

01:02:46.540 church.

01:02:46.900 They were going to fight for all these causes.

01:02:49.600 And it just felt like this town hall, like social justice meeting.

01:02:53.340 And I was starving.

01:02:54.980 Like, it took so much for me to walk to that church and to be met with that.

01:03:01.100 I was so confused on, like, what was that?

01:03:06.580 Just deeply confused.

01:03:08.720 So praise God that I found this other church where the pastor, it was a very, very small

01:03:16.340 church.

01:03:16.660 It was a plant.

01:03:17.340 And the pastor and his wife so graciously sat with me and walked me through scripture.

01:03:23.220 And I had a really hard time with different doctrines.

01:03:25.500 And they just walked me through it and were patient with me.

01:03:28.640 And God really used that to grow me as I was involved in that local body.

01:03:34.600 Wow.

01:03:35.200 That's amazing.

01:03:35.860 And also that the Holy Spirit obviously convicted you away from that.

01:03:39.080 And such a good reminder for us that, like, people are walking into our churches hungry

01:03:44.080 for the Word of God.

01:03:45.160 Yes.

01:03:45.620 Hungry for the gospel.

01:03:47.100 And we need to give that.

01:03:49.060 How did you meet your husband?

01:03:50.540 Oh, we met him at my church.

01:03:54.080 And we actually both moved from California at almost the exact same time.

01:03:57.260 And we were on the worship team together.

01:04:00.400 And it's kind of a hilarious story of a lot of friendship and awkwardness.

01:04:06.760 But it's just been so cool how God has used him and used his love for the Lord and just

01:04:13.300 the way he selflessly serves me and points me to scripture and washes me with the water

01:04:17.760 of the word.

01:04:19.300 I learned God has taught me so much about what love is, especially romantic love through my

01:04:24.780 husband, God uses this marriage in many ways to sanctify me because, you know, childhood

01:04:31.520 sexual abuse, a lifetime of sin, abusive relationships.

01:04:34.420 I'm coming in with so much baggage.

01:04:36.940 And God has been so kind to use this relationship to point me to the character of God and to show

01:04:44.000 me the way that he has designed love to be between a man and a woman and those different

01:04:49.700 roles.

01:04:50.480 And I'm just so blessed and thankful to be able to walk this out with him by my side.

01:04:56.140 Yes.

01:04:56.620 That is so beautiful.

01:04:58.060 Thank you so much for sharing your testimony.

01:05:00.400 And if people want to hear more from you, you talk a lot about the differences between

01:05:04.520 the new age and Christianity, how people need to be on the lookout for that in culture.

01:05:10.080 Um, and also within, uh, subsets of the church or even people who call themselves Christians

01:05:17.160 using manifestation, name it and claim it.

01:05:20.160 You talk a lot about all of that.

01:05:21.500 If people want to hear more about that from you, where can they go?

01:05:24.060 Yeah.

01:05:24.780 Um, you can find me on YouTube, Jack Marino Chen, and the same as on Instagram.

01:05:30.620 And then I also have a podcast with Doreen Virtue and Jen Miza called New Age to New Heart,

01:05:35.780 which is on YouTube as well as Spotify and Apple.

01:05:38.080 So, okay.

01:05:38.800 Thank you so much for joining us and for the courage to share your testimony.

01:05:43.160 I know it's going to encourage so many people.

01:05:44.760 Thank you.

01:05:45.340 Thank you so much for having me.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - August 27, 2024

Ep 1058 ｜ Ex-Witch Reveals LA’s Dark World of Sex Cults and Blood Offerings ｜ Guest： Jac Marino Chen

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