Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1087 ｜ Kamala’s 'Jesus Is Lord' Controversy

00:00:00.780 Russell Moore compared me to a Nazi in Christianity today because he didn't like my interpretation

00:00:06.740 of a particular verse.

00:00:08.880 Well, guess what?

00:00:09.740 Russell Moore is wrong.

00:00:12.160 Also, Kamala Harris is doing some church hopping and some sermon delivering.

00:00:17.880 We will dissect that as well as respond to the whole Jesus is Lord controversy at one

00:00:24.680 of her recent rallies.

00:00:25.820 This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers.

00:00:28.820 Go to GoodRanchers.com, code Allie.

00:00:31.320 That's GoodRanchers.com, code Allie.

00:00:43.020 Hey guys, welcome to Relatable.

00:00:44.920 Happy Tuesday.

00:00:46.180 Hope everyone is having a wonderful week so far.

00:00:48.460 If you have not watched or listened to yesterday's episode with Dr. Al Mohler, you've got to.

00:00:54.980 And share it with all of your friends, your Christian friends who are thinking about not

00:00:59.060 voting, who are voting third party, even maybe leaning toward voting for Kamala Harris.

00:01:04.900 He does such a good job of breaking down in Christian language why this election matters,

00:01:11.700 what is at stake, the significant daylight between the two party platforms.

00:01:16.980 So go check out that.

00:01:19.200 Super helpful to me.

00:01:20.860 That is what we are going to be addressing in so many of our episodes coming up.

00:01:26.340 We are getting really close to this election.

00:01:29.300 In fact, it's two weeks from today.

00:01:31.800 And I want to talk to Christians and the friends of Christians who are not interested in voting. 0.65

00:01:39.800 As I talked about yesterday, George Barna found through a recent study that there are tens of

00:01:44.860 millions of church-going Christians who are not voting in this election, not because of some

00:01:50.000 moral position that they've taken against the two parties or two candidates, but because of a

00:01:55.140 disinterest in politics.

00:01:57.400 Now, that's probably not any of you who are watching this podcast, but I guarantee there are

00:02:04.160 many of you out there who are friends with that kind of person.

00:02:07.320 And so whether you get those people to listen to or watch this show, or whether I or my guests

00:02:13.820 give you the equipment to have conversations with your friends, that's what I'm going to be

00:02:19.400 addressing.

00:02:20.360 I'm going to try my best in the clearest way possible to show you the difference between

00:02:26.260 the two party platforms are imperative, I think, to vote as Christian citizens of the United States.

00:02:33.740 But we're also going to be talking about some of the news of the day, especially what's

00:02:38.160 going on in the Christian political world, the intersection that I occupy most frequently.

00:02:44.840 And today is one of those episodes.

00:02:47.600 As I've said before, whenever a pastor or some kind of Christian leader starts talking about

00:02:56.900 politics, it's of special interest to me, especially when they are speaking from the more progressive

00:03:04.940 side of things.

00:03:06.900 And certainly, Russell Moore, the former president of ERLC and the editor-in-chief of Christianity

00:03:15.260 Today falls into that category.

00:03:18.240 This is someone who talks about politics, but usually in pretty vague terms.

00:03:23.280 And he might sometimes tickle to the left, but he surely punches right.

00:03:29.960 He really doesn't like Donald Trump.

00:03:32.320 And over the years, he has become less and less conservative, I would say, not only politically,

00:03:38.220 but also theologically.

00:03:39.960 This is someone who used to talk a lot about the importance of religious liberty, the importance

00:03:44.460 of preserving the definition of marriage between a man and a woman, the importance of protecting

00:03:49.900 the unborn, and if you just do a simple analysis of his Twitter history, where he has been pretty

00:03:59.320 active over the past decade, you will see how his language and how his focus has really changed.

00:04:07.520 He has stopped talking, in many cases it seems, about the importance of the sanctity of life

00:04:15.060 and the definition of marriage and the reality of male and female, and has really focused on this

00:04:22.320 crazy, scary specter of Christian nationalism and the threat of Donald Trump and the problems 0.54

00:04:30.600 with conservative Christians and how we look at our political atmosphere.

00:04:36.700 And as we will get into today, Megan Basham, through her book Shepherds for Sale, has really

00:04:42.000 analyzed Russell more and why he has become the way he is, although as we will also discuss,

00:04:49.600 many of his colleagues would say that this is kind of how he has always been.

00:04:53.920 And I'll explain exactly why we are talking about more today.

00:04:57.800 So let me back up.

00:04:59.920 I posted on X on October 11th.

00:05:04.260 I said this, the least of these, in quotations, is referring to persecuted Christians, not the poor.

00:05:12.000 So, I'm voting for the set of policies that will best protect the truly least of these, 0.99

00:05:17.620 like Jack Phillips, like Lori Smith, other believers who have had their lives ruined by progressive activists.

00:05:25.300 No chance I could vote for the party that routinely targets Christians for harassment, discrimination, and lawfare.

00:05:33.060 Honestly, I didn't really foresee that post getting to the progressive side of X and stirring up a lot of anger.

00:05:42.360 I am just expressing my perspective.

00:05:45.960 And of course, I wouldn't expect progressives, Democrats, people on the center left, Russell Moore,

00:05:54.380 to agree with my conclusion that I'm voting for Republicans because they are the party on the ballot

00:06:02.780 that will best protect the religious liberty of Christians,

00:06:06.740 that will be pardoning the pro-lifers who are in prison rather than imprisoning more pro-lifers,

00:06:13.640 which is absolutely what Kamala Harris would do. 1.00

00:06:16.640 But it did make its way to the progressive side of X, and it made people very angry and so angry, in fact,

00:06:24.080 that it even spilled over onto Instagram.

00:06:26.580 There was one progressive-leaning female influencer. 0.99

00:06:31.620 I guess she has a podcast, and according to those of you who have followed her for a while,

00:06:37.540 she has become more progressive over time, and she posted that this tweet of mine made her physically angry.

00:06:48.220 She was so mad about what I said. 0.73

00:06:50.760 She said, it's shoddy hermeneutics.

00:06:53.100 This is a terrible interpretation.

00:06:55.840 And that's what I heard from a lot of people.

00:06:57.700 Interestingly, a lot of people who called me very vile names that I certainly don't find in the Bible

00:07:03.900 because I dared to suggest that the least of these is not talking about the world's poor or the world's marginalized,

00:07:12.000 but is actually talking about the persecuted Christian.

00:07:15.420 You'll notice I didn't say that Christians shouldn't care for the poor

00:07:18.720 because elsewhere we are given that command and, of course, that model.

00:07:23.320 But this verse in particular is actually talking about the persecuted Christian.

00:07:28.240 This made a lot of people mad, including Russell Moore,

00:07:31.600 to the point that he actually called me and those who hold this interpretation a Nazi.

00:07:38.660 So I'll get into that and respond to that criticism in just a second.

00:07:42.820 Let me pause.

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00:08:47.440 So let's look at this verse, Matthew 25, 31 through 46.

00:08:55.960 He's describing his return when the sheep will be separated from the goats, sheep being his people, goats being not his people.

00:09:03.940 Verse 40, and the king will answer them,

00:09:06.440 And truly I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these, my brothers, you did it to me.

00:09:13.920 So after a little backlash, I posted this on X.

00:09:19.440 All of these things are true.

00:09:21.540 One, the least of these are suffering, persecuted Christians.

00:09:25.580 Two, Christians should help the poor.

00:09:27.980 Three, Christians should not outsource our compassion to the government.

00:09:31.980 Voting Democrat in the name of helping the poor is not altruistic.

00:09:36.840 You will go to jail if you don't pay taxes.

00:09:40.060 That is not the cheerful giving that God loves, as we read in 2 Corinthians 9, 7.

00:09:47.200 Because I hear a lot from Christians who are voting Democrat that they are voting for the least of these.

00:09:52.540 They are voting for the most vulnerable.

00:09:54.400 They're voting for the poor.

00:09:55.660 And they see the Democrat Party as the party that is helping these communities that they believe Jesus is commanding us to serve in this particular verse.

00:10:06.300 But I also say to that, even if this verse were talking about the world's poor,

00:10:10.900 the Democrat policies that we see in their platform right now that we actually see in place across the country

00:10:17.640 do not actually help those communities you say you're trying to help.

00:10:22.080 Remember, remember, we do not judge a policy, as Thomas Sowell has articulated, by its stated intentions.

00:10:31.760 We judge a policy by its results.

00:10:35.500 And we can see the results of so-called compassionate progressive policy in every blue city that exists.

00:10:43.840 As cities have become more progressive, as Denver, as Pittsburgh, as D.C., as Seattle, as Portland, as San Francisco, as Austin have become more progressive.

00:10:58.420 They have become worse.

00:10:59.980 They've become worse for the poor, worse for the homeless, worse for the middle class, worse for children, worse for the innocent people just trying to work and afford rent and to live their lives in a responsible way.

00:11:15.540 They've become less safe.

00:11:17.080 They've become dirtier.

00:11:18.700 And so you're going to have to show me how these policies that supposedly help these vulnerable communities have worked out in an actually beneficial way.

00:11:28.780 Again, don't just tell me how they could theoretically help these people, but show me tangibly how they've helped these people.

00:11:36.280 And so I understand why Democrats got mad when I used their token verse to justify not voting for Democrats, but explain one reason why I am voting Republican.

00:11:50.160 I did not anticipate, though, that Russell Moore would be saying that I am like a Nazi.

00:11:58.620 So he wrote a post a few days after this backlash ensued online for Christianity Today titled The Least of These and the Quest for a Post-Christian Conscience.

00:12:12.220 So I guess those of us who are saying that the least of these are not the world's poor, that we're trying to have a post-Christian conscience.

00:12:21.820 Now, it's interesting because here's how he says this, which I just think this is dishonest.

00:12:27.300 There's no way that he doesn't actually know who started this whole controversy.

00:12:31.500 He writes,

00:12:32.840 A friend told me last week that some social media controversy dusted up for a bit over just this question about who the least of these is.

00:12:40.920 He needn't tell me who posted it because it doesn't matter in this ephemeral medium.

00:12:46.080 The players always change and the game remains the same.

00:12:50.860 Anybody who's ever been a youth pastor knows that there's a certain kind of question, like how far is too far?

00:12:55.940 Or actually, Jesus wasn't talking about the kind of sex I want to have.

00:13:00.380 Okay, that's less about just asking questions of the text than about doing what one wants to do.

00:13:07.620 So that is what he is saying my interpretation is, that I am looking for a license to sin.

00:13:13.760 All right?

00:13:14.500 The question raised by these sorts of actually arguments about parsing out who fits in the least of these and who does not is not a new one.

00:13:22.340 It is quite literally the question Jesus answered from a lawyer seeking to parse out how he was within the bounds of love God and love your neighbor with the question, who is my neighbor?

00:13:32.440 One can almost hear the equivocating, actually, neighbor in the context of the Torah refers to those within the household of Israel, so dot, dot, dot.

00:13:40.720 And so, again, what he is saying is that my interpretation is basically like the person who is trying to say that they're a Christian without actually acting like one.

00:13:52.660 He continues with this straw man, and it is a straw man because he is presupposing that I am arguing that Christians are never to care for the poor,

00:14:00.660 or that the Bible never tells us to care for the poor, or that Jesus never tells us to care for the poor.

00:14:04.940 That was not my argument.

00:14:06.280 That is not even close to what I said.

00:14:08.900 And so he makes his case that we are actually supposed to care for the poor.

00:14:14.720 Yeah, I know.

00:14:15.940 That's one of the things that Christians do best.

00:14:18.520 Y'all have heard my monologue about a million times at this point as I talk about how Christians revolutionized,

00:14:24.840 how they changed the game, changed the world when they entered into the pagan world of the Roman Empire, 0.85

00:14:32.480 that we changed how the world saw people, how the world saw the elderly, the poor, the woman, and especially the child and the baby.

00:14:41.620 Like, that is the speech that I give most often.

00:14:46.300 I am well aware that Christians are called to care for the vulnerable.

00:14:50.700 As the church, by the way, again, not outsourcing that compassion to the state.

00:14:56.140 But here's where he really makes his argument that my interpretation is completely out of bounds,

00:15:02.080 completely outside of Christian history, and actually looks more like Nazi propaganda than it does real biblical interpretation.

00:15:10.400 He says,

00:15:10.960 If one is embarrassed by the miracles and morality of Jesus, one can always demythologize him with all the fervor of a 19th century German scholar.

00:15:20.700 Okay, so fascist.

00:15:22.220 If one is embarrassed by the compassion or empathy of Jesus, choice of words is intentional there,

00:15:29.280 one can demythologize him there too with all the frenzy of a 20th century German soldier.

00:15:35.480 None of that will change.

00:15:38.100 Not one iota that Jesus is ultimately seated on the throne.

00:15:41.940 Before him, has God really said is a terrible question to ask.

00:15:46.620 So is, who is my neighbor?

00:15:50.140 And when confronted with the suffering of human beings around you,

00:15:53.740 making the point that those who are suffering are less than the least of these is no argument at all.

00:16:00.620 Again, this is a straw man because this is not the argument that I was making.

00:16:05.480 It is really easy to tear down an argument that someone did not make.

00:16:11.220 An argument that you want them to make so that you can seem very scholarly and smart and righteous when you refute it.

00:16:20.900 Gosh, that reminds me a whole lot of a particular group in Jesus' time.

00:16:26.760 Who else did that kind of thing?

00:16:28.880 I'm sure it'll come to me at some point.

00:16:31.580 Maybe the great theologian Russell Moore can help me out on that.

00:16:35.480 So what Russell Moore is saying, that because of this interpretation, as I am about to show you,

00:16:44.220 is extremely mainstream and was held by the church fathers and great theologians throughout history,

00:16:50.540 including modern theologians,

00:16:52.900 that because I hold that interpretation that I am like the soldiers that put Jewish children into gas chambers.

00:17:03.200 Like, I just want us to really feel the weight of his words there.

00:17:07.800 Because just because you are good at words, just because you are a wordsmith,

00:17:12.220 doesn't mean that you can throw out comparisons to a 20th century German soldier flippantly.

00:17:20.840 And now maybe he thinks that not naming me specifically means that he avoids real responsibility or any obligation to demonstrate decency.

00:17:32.000 But I just want us to sit in this for a second.

00:17:34.360 He just likened me, a mom of three, trying to navigate the craziness of our culture,

00:17:43.980 which with as much clarity and courage as God can give me,

00:17:49.000 someone that he disagrees with politically and, I guess, theologically,

00:17:55.880 to a soldier who placed innocent Jewish children and babies in concentration camps

00:18:06.460 and starved them and murdered them and tortured them and placed them in gas chambers. 0.66

00:18:16.820 That's how Russell Moore, the editor-in-chief of Christianity Today, functions, argues, disagrees with a believer. 0.97

00:18:29.340 That is his M.O.

00:18:31.100 From his former colleagues that have reached out to me and expressed sympathy in this situation,

00:18:39.420 that is how he has long operated.

00:18:42.700 Passive-aggressive, catty, cutting to the bone when you threaten his own dogma.

00:18:50.620 He's mad because this is the dogma that he uses to justify voting Democrat.

00:18:55.580 At least that's what it seems to me.

00:18:57.500 And so he will literally, if you disagree with him, call you a Nazi.

00:19:04.200 That's Russell Moore.

00:19:05.760 But what is the correct interpretation of this?

00:19:08.800 Well, there are people much, much smarter, more knowledgeable, wiser than I am,

00:19:13.000 that have better answers for us than I do.

00:19:16.260 So we'll dig into that in a second.

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00:20:30.460 All right, let's start with the early church fathers.

00:20:33.780 And I want to give a shout out to Honest Youth Pastor.

00:20:37.280 He created an Instagram post about this, and he actually originally criticized my take.

00:20:43.700 But then to his credit, after he did some reading, he posted an Instagram post that showed that actually this interpretation that I articulated that I only learned of a few years ago, I think from Nathan Finocchio on Instagram.

00:20:59.520 I'd never thought about it like that.

00:21:01.040 I did not know that Jesus was referring actually to his brothers, the members of the body of Christ, his own church, his own people until just about a few years ago.

00:21:13.500 So if this is new to you, I have been in the same boat pretty recently.

00:21:18.580 But here's what the church fathers say.

00:21:21.580 Here is Cyprian.

00:21:23.360 He lived from 200 to 258 AD.

00:21:26.280 This is in one of his books.

00:21:28.540 He referenced Matthew 2540 and the concept of the least of these, my brethren.

00:21:33.680 He emphasizes that this is actually talking about believers.

00:21:39.500 Jesus is saying, whatever you do to these believers, my children, my people, you do unto me.

00:21:47.280 Augustine, he lived from 354 to 430.

00:21:50.520 In Sermon 86, he said this.

00:21:52.880 When he said, you did it to these, he did not say, my brethren.

00:21:58.020 But he added this when he said, you did it unto me.

00:22:01.760 Why?

00:22:02.260 But because these were his members, because he was their head.

00:22:08.440 So he sees the least of these as referring specifically to believers who are members of Christ's body.

00:22:13.840 Then we've got John Calvin in the 16th century and his commentary on Matthew.

00:22:18.980 He writes, Christ does not hear speak of all wretched persons without distinction, but of those who, being tried by the cross, are reckoned as his own people.

00:22:32.400 Interestingly, Christianity Today.

00:22:35.100 You'll remember that that is Russell Moore's publication now.

00:22:39.780 In 2015, wrote this article titled, What You Probably Don't Know About the Least of These.

00:22:48.460 It says,

00:22:50.000 Who else in Matthew went hungry, thirsty, homeless, naked, sick, and imprisoned?

00:22:56.280 We find such a group in Matthew 10, 1 through 42, where Jesus sends out the 12 disciples to preach about the kingdom.

00:23:04.500 Parallels between Jesus' words in Matthew 10 and the description of the least of these in chapter 25 make it clear that Jesus is talking about his own people.

00:23:16.580 In chapter 10, the disciples had no money, no bag for food or drink.

00:23:20.580 They had no extra clothing.

00:23:22.720 Jesus said they would often be arrested.

00:23:25.380 And so within the context of the entire book of Matthew, we actually see that Jesus is talking about his children that are being sent out on his behalf.

00:23:36.320 So Christianity Today says,

00:23:38.380 Russell Moore better watch out.

00:23:53.020 Got a bunch of Nazis at Christianity Today.

00:23:55.200 We've also got Kevin DeYoung.

00:23:57.480 He is a professor at Reformed Theological Seminary in Charlotte, and he wrote an article for the Gospel Coalition in 2017 titled, Who Are the Least of These?

00:24:07.960 He says, The Least of These refers to other believers in need, specifically itinerant Christian teachers dependent on other Christians for hospitality and support. 0.94

00:24:18.700 And he gives his supporting points.

00:24:20.460 We won't go through all of these in detail.

00:24:22.360 We can link the article.

00:24:23.500 You can read it for yourself.

00:24:25.140 But he says in verse 45, Jesus uses the phrase, the least of these.

00:24:29.100 But in verse 40, he uses a more exact phrase, the least of these, my brothers.

00:24:33.960 The reference to my brothers can't be a reference to all of suffering humanity.

00:24:38.800 Brother is never used this way in the New Testament.

00:24:42.280 He's talking either about his physical brothers, which we know that he's not because that wouldn't make sense in context, or he's talking about his spiritual brethren, which in context it seems that he is.

00:24:53.460 Likewise, it makes more sense to think Jesus is comparing service to fellow believers with service to him, rather than to hear him saying, you should see my image in the faces of the poor, as some people have asserted.

00:25:07.980 Also, he says the word least is a superlative form of microe, little ones.

00:25:14.020 And microe always refers to the disciples in Matthew's gospel.

00:25:19.160 Also, Denny Burke, he wrote in 2015, the least of these are not the poor, but the Christian baker, photographer and florist.

00:25:29.800 He also is a professor at Boyce College.

00:25:33.820 And he wrote this, the Bible teaches about our obligation to the poor.

00:25:40.480 But contrary to popular belief, the least of these in Matthew 25, 40, is not talking generically about our obligation to care for the poor and the needy.

00:25:52.420 In short, how you treat Jesus' disciples reveals how you treat Jesus.

00:25:57.420 How you have received Jesus' messengers shows how you have received Jesus' message.

00:26:02.700 Your works will reveal whether you have believed the gospel or not, and your works will bear witness either for you or against you at the judgment.

00:26:13.600 It's about this verse, any disciple of Jesus who was ever mistreated in the name of Jesus.

00:26:19.700 This text shows us that Jesus will judge those who show contempt for the gospel by mistreating gospel bearers.

00:26:27.080 Yes, that means Jack Phillips is the least of these more accurately than the world's poor.

00:26:37.240 Again, that doesn't mean we shouldn't care for the world's poor, but we should read verses rightly.

00:26:42.580 We should look at the original language.

00:26:44.360 We should look at the context, even if Russell Moore, the editor-in-chief of Christianity Today, calls you a Nazi for doing so.

00:26:53.940 All right, we've got so much to get into today.

00:26:57.580 I want to talk—everyone has been asking me.

00:27:00.100 Everyone has been asking me to respond to this Jesus is Lord controversy at the Kamala Rally.

00:27:06.960 I might have an opinion that surprises you.

00:27:10.280 There is a reason why I haven't commented on it.

00:27:13.740 I'm not just trying to be contrarian to what most Christian conservative commentators have said.

00:27:21.040 These are just my true organic thoughts.

00:27:23.220 Maybe they might make some of you mad.

00:27:25.320 I'm not sure.

00:27:26.300 That's not my purpose.

00:27:28.060 But I have a little bit of a different take.

00:27:30.100 Before we get into it, I just want to remind you that my book, Toxic Empathy, is for sale.

00:27:35.560 You can go to ToxicEmpathy.com or you can go to the link in the description of this episode.

00:27:40.220 It is on Amazon.

00:27:41.580 That's the easiest place to buy it.

00:27:42.960 If you're like me and in this season of life, you're listening to books, it is also available on Audible.

00:27:48.220 It is me reading it.

00:27:49.900 I got this awesome message from one of you on Instagram, and I thought that I had it in front of me, but I don't.

00:27:58.200 But it was really sweet.

00:27:59.640 And you said that after reading this book, you have already changed three people's minds on the subjects that we covered.

00:28:07.500 So abortion, gender, the definition of marriage, sexuality, immigration, social justice.

00:28:13.800 Another one of you messaged me and said that you have been able to have really fruitful conversations with your parents who have been very anti-conservative positions on a lot of these things and how they were really able to engage you with some of the things that you told them because of this book.

00:28:31.300 All glory to God, that's exactly what I wanted.

00:28:34.040 If you want to be equipped to have the conversations with these tens of millions of Christians who are politically disengaged or who just listen to the left-wing propaganda that is constantly coming at us from every direction, then you need to get the book Toxic Empathy. 0.64

00:28:49.340 Again, you can get it on Amazon.

00:28:51.420 You can get it wherever books are sold.

00:28:53.140 I think if you want to get it in person, you can also go to Hobby Lobby.

00:28:56.500 It should be available there.

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00:30:08.220 Okay, last week at a Kamala Harris rally that was held at the University of Wisconsin-La Crosse,

00:30:18.080 a pair of Christian students were heckled and mocked by Harris herself when they shouted,

00:30:23.220 Jesus is Lord, following Harris's statements about abortion.

00:30:27.760 So Harris, as we've talked about before, she gets very animated and excited and charismatic when she's talking about abortion

00:30:34.080 because it is the thing that she loves most.

00:30:36.840 And you might think that's an exaggeration.

00:30:40.180 It is not.

00:30:41.000 If you simply look at the facts surrounding her career, what her political history has been, she loves abortion.

00:30:47.400 She has never voted on any restriction for abortion, any regulation that would help babies who have survived abortion.

00:30:53.780 Her and her running mate, Tim Walls, have that in common.

00:30:57.340 And so she's getting very animated and excited, talking about the thing that she loves and worships, which is abortion.

00:31:03.080 And so these students respond by saying Jesus is Lord.

00:31:08.100 And here is how Harris reacts.

00:31:10.120 Salt 1.

00:31:11.080 With the intention that they would undo the protections of Roe v. Wade, and they did as he intended. 0.66

00:31:19.240 Oh, you guys are at the wrong rally.

00:31:36.980 No, I think you meant to go to the smaller one down the street.

00:31:40.280 Okay, so here's a little bit more clear audio.

00:31:46.620 If you didn't hear that fully, there's a full shot of the crowd on this one.

00:31:51.660 Salt 2.

00:31:53.280 As he is king, Jesus is Lord.

00:31:57.060 Okay, Christ is king, Jesus is Lord.

00:32:08.360 This is Grant Bath and Luke Pulaski, both juniors at the school.

00:32:12.140 And, of course, they attended it to kind of agitate there.

00:32:16.720 He was on Fox & Friends weekend, and one of them was Luke Pulaski.

00:32:22.000 Told Fox & Friends Harris was 100% talking to them.

00:32:25.040 She was actually waving at me.

00:32:27.820 And so I understand why this has created the anger that it has and the outrage that it has.

00:32:36.200 And I don't disagree with my Christian conservative friends when they say,

00:32:40.380 look at who Kamala Harris is. 0.99

00:32:42.660 That if someone declares that Jesus is Lord, that she is going to say, you don't belong here.

00:32:47.780 I think Democrats have made that very clear.

00:32:49.620 I also 100% agree that the Democrat platform is absolutely demonic and that she wants nothing 0.95

00:32:56.740 to do with real Christian values.

00:32:58.480 That is 100% true.

00:33:00.640 However, I think we know that Christ is king, as true as it is, has also been used as a form

00:33:11.940 of political agitation.

00:33:13.460 It's become a motto by some people on Acts who don't actually believe or live as if Christ

00:33:20.600 is king, but think that saying that is somehow sticking it to their political or cultural

00:33:27.040 opponents.

00:33:27.940 Am I saying you shouldn't say it?

00:33:29.980 Of course not.

00:33:30.920 I'm not saying it.

00:33:31.840 But just like in everything we say, our motive matters, right?

00:33:37.600 Uh, I mean, Jesus himself said, many of you will say, Lord, Lord, yet I will say, depart

00:33:45.340 from me for I never knew you.

00:33:47.240 And so even saying the right things, even saying true things, the context matters, the motive

00:33:53.740 matters, and I'm not impugning the motives of these two young people.

00:33:58.240 Maybe they were there to really share the gospel and declare the truth of the Lord and more power

00:34:02.580 to them.

00:34:03.280 If that is the case, what I am kind of defending, have I ever defended Kamala Harris?

00:34:08.660 I don't know.

00:34:09.860 I am not one to really give her the benefit of the doubt.

00:34:12.760 However, if she understands that in some cases, this Christ is king language has been used as a

00:34:20.900 form of political agitation, she might have realized or recognized or thought that that is what these

00:34:29.620 students are doing, that they are just trying to interrupt her speech, that they're just trying

00:34:34.000 to agitate and annoy and distract the people that are there to listen to her.

00:34:40.560 She probably wasn't saying, although I do think this is what she really thinks, but in that moment,

00:34:46.680 I don't think that she was saying that if you believe Jesus is Lord, you don't belong at this rally.

00:34:53.620 I know, hell hath frozen over.

00:34:56.340 For some reason, I am defending Kamala Harris, which, again, is not really something that

00:35:01.860 I want to do, but I don't know.

00:35:04.360 I was just conflicted as I was seeing the reaction to this because as we talked about in

00:35:10.400 our Christ is King episode, which we can link in this description several months ago, Christ

00:35:17.520 is King, while it is absolutely true, it is much bigger and better and deeper than some

00:35:25.240 kind of political mantra or catchy motto.

00:35:30.140 I mean, it is the most controversial statement that has ever existed because God's authority

00:35:37.540 means something.

00:35:39.160 If he created all things, then he is the authority over all things.

00:35:43.060 He gets to define all things.

00:35:45.800 He gets to judge all people.

00:35:48.440 He gets to set the standard.

00:35:50.860 He gets to be the truth, the way, the life.

00:35:54.980 No one gets to come to the Father except through him.

00:35:57.900 Like, there are heavy, eternal, profound implications of that statement.

00:36:03.240 It is not just a cudgel.

00:36:05.420 Like, it's not just something that we use to swat at our political opponents.

00:36:10.820 So if it is not something that is, which I'm not, again, talking about these two students,

00:36:15.700 I hope and believe that they are 100% true Christians and just went there to preach the 1.00

00:36:20.760 gospel.

00:36:21.300 But in general, I'm saying I understand why she reacted the way that she did, because

00:36:26.920 there are some people who do not live and believe as if Christ is King who do use that.

00:36:32.900 I mean, during that whole controversy a few months ago, you literally had Muslims.

00:36:36.980 I think Andrew Tate was out there saying Christ is King.

00:36:41.200 So yeah, Christ is King, Andrew Tate, and one day you're going to wish he wasn't.

00:36:46.540 So I think we just need to be really careful about how we are using Jesus' name, what we

00:36:54.460 are using it for.

00:36:56.360 There is such a thing as taking the Lord's name in vain, and it is not just saying, oh,

00:37:02.100 my G-O-D.

00:37:03.200 Some people out there even get mad when I say, OMG, get your mind out of the gutter.

00:37:08.600 It stands for, oh, my goodness, okay?

00:37:10.440 That's just an aside.

00:37:12.460 But I do think using Jesus' name as just a form of agitation or a motto is wrong.

00:37:21.000 Don't know if these students were doing that, but I understand Kamala Harris' reaction, and

00:37:26.540 I don't think that it is the best, I don't think it is the best example of how she is

00:37:34.140 anti-Christian.

00:37:35.380 She is anti-Christian.

00:37:37.240 Look at her platform. 0.80

00:37:39.520 It is anti-Bible, anti-God, 100%. 0.62

00:37:43.200 This is just not a good example.

00:37:44.580 This is like a non-controversy to me.

00:37:46.840 Now, I will say, J.D.

00:37:48.160 Vance did respond to this, however, just like on a surface level, way better than Kamala Harris

00:37:54.360 did.

00:37:54.620 Here's that.

00:37:55.740 I don't think we've, I don't think that we've, that's right, Jesus is king, and I don't think

00:38:00.080 that we've seen.

00:38:10.940 I don't think that we've seen anything like this in modern American politics.

00:38:18.080 Kamala Harris did go to a few churches, however, and she tried very hard.

00:38:23.580 She tried very hard to make it seem like she is, I was going to say one of us, but this

00:38:31.840 is a brand and a sect of Christianity that I don't relate to and have no affiliation with

00:38:36.760 whatsoever.

00:38:37.680 So I would say one of them.

00:38:39.620 She tried to use the language of Christians within the Black church to bring the souls to

00:38:46.120 the polls.

00:38:46.540 Souls to the polls is a movement that has existed within the Black church, a mobilization effort

00:38:52.560 led by National Advisory Board of Black Faith Leaders for a very long time.

00:38:58.460 Democrat politicians go into these Black churches and they say, vote for me, and they use Christian

00:39:04.840 sounding language to justify that.

00:39:06.480 Now, interestingly, interestingly, the people who are very scared of Christian nationalism,

00:39:14.300 the David French, the Tim Alberta, the Russell Moores of the world, all the progressive professing

00:39:21.960 Christians, they have no problem with this.

00:39:24.500 This is not scary.

00:39:26.120 This is not the Handmaid's Tale.

00:39:27.780 This is not theocracy.

00:39:29.320 This is not wedding empire with state.

00:39:31.920 This is not, or with church, this is not threatening the separation of church and state, which is

00:39:37.900 very telling.

00:39:39.660 The only people that progressives do not want to bring their whole worldview into the public

00:39:47.940 sphere is conservative Christians.

00:39:49.500 Everyone else can do it.

00:39:51.260 Everyone else can use their beliefs to inform their vote, to inform what they think about these

00:39:57.160 public issues, except for Christian conservatives.

00:39:59.760 When Christian conservatives do it, it's Christian nationalism, which is, of course, a manipulation 0.92

00:40:04.660 tactic to get you to be silent and to get you to try to compartmentalize your faith and

00:40:09.720 ultimately vote Democrat.

00:40:13.460 So Kamala Harris went to New Birth Missionary Baptist Church, and we'll play her sermon in just

00:40:20.240 a second.

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00:41:13.820 Okay, here she was on Sunday.

00:41:21.620 Actually, this is not her sermon yet.

00:41:24.620 I got to show you her worshiping in church at New Birth Missionary Baptist Church in Atlanta.

00:41:31.780 Sob 3.

00:41:32.180 Okay, so that woman is super talented. 1.00

00:42:00.220 And so that's great for her.

00:42:03.700 But why Kamala Harris is being welcomed into a church when she stands against everything, 1.00

00:42:10.480 her platform, her policy, I'm not even just talking about her personally, stands against 0.92

00:42:16.480 everything that Christians should stand for.

00:42:19.560 I'm just not sure, except for just a blind allegiance to the Democrat Party.

00:42:24.660 Of course, I don't think Donald Trump is a representative of Christianity.

00:42:29.140 I'm not sure that either of them are Christians.

00:42:32.440 But again, when we're looking at the policies that will affect your life, that affect baby's

00:42:36.520 lives, that affect the lives of the most vulnerable, we've got one candidate that is

00:42:41.620 a candidate of lawlessness and disorder, and that is Kamala Harris. 1.00

00:42:46.340 That's what her policies represent. 1.00

00:42:48.820 Pastor Jamal Bryant, he is also notorious for his own personal infidelities.

00:42:55.720 He was in an open marriage, it was reported, he said himself, in 2012.

00:43:01.960 In 2014, he said this in a sermon.

00:43:08.920 He said, every brother, would you tap another brother and say, I should have listened to her.

00:43:13.020 God help me.

00:43:13.860 All saints here forgive me, but I got to tell you, these hoes ain't loyal. 1.00

00:43:17.360 Well, just as Jesus said, in 2016, a then 34-year-old California woman alleged that Bryant fathered

00:43:27.280 a son with her a year earlier after encouraging her to have an abortion when he first discovered

00:43:33.720 she was pregnant.

00:43:34.560 So that's who is leading this church that is welcoming Kamala Harris in.

00:43:39.360 Like attracts like.

00:43:40.500 It makes a lot of sense.

00:43:41.920 Bryant preached from Esther 414, pushed the conspiracy theory that the Heritage Foundation,

00:43:48.800 that their Project 2025 is a plot to destroy minority communities, similar to Haman's plot 0.92

00:43:55.280 to destroy the Jews. 0.95

00:43:56.560 Okay. 0.98

00:43:57.560 That is also, I would just say within that, is an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory that we

00:44:02.440 hear a lot among Black supremacists and the Black Hebrew Israelites, that they are the real

00:44:07.360 Jews.

00:44:07.740 And so you'll see even in James Cone and his liberation theology, which is completely

00:44:13.400 heretical, it's not Christian in any way, that they will often, these liberation theologians

00:44:19.440 will often compare Black people to Israel and say that it's, they're basically the same

00:44:25.540 thing, that their plight is parallel.

00:44:29.420 It's just an interesting part of what I see of a lot of like Black liberal theology.

00:44:34.360 Bryant then suggested that Harris was called by God to lead for such a time as this and

00:44:41.140 urged Black men to support her.

00:44:42.780 You'll remember from last week that Black men are having a hard time supporting Kamala 0.84

00:44:47.920 Harris.

00:44:48.700 Here's top four.

00:44:50.020 Can I just preach to the vice president?

00:44:52.360 Who knew that 60 years ago today, you were born to be president.

00:44:59.520 You were born to lead a nation.

00:45:02.700 You were born to change the trajectory of democracy.

00:45:07.800 Who knows?

00:45:09.080 But you were born for such a time as this.

00:45:14.240 So awkward.

00:45:15.900 So weird.

00:45:17.700 Okay.

00:45:18.500 Um, here's his prayer for Kamala Harris, top five.

00:45:21.320 I pray that you'll assign a hundred thousand angels to cover her head.

00:45:27.980 Thank you, dear Lord, that you have given her this moment to defy the odds in front of

00:45:34.680 the entire world.

00:45:37.400 Okay.

00:45:38.380 Tell me one thing that Kamala Harris represents for you in that church besides skin color.

00:45:47.820 Besides the fact that she's a woman. 0.99

00:45:49.820 Like, what is it?

00:45:50.680 What's the policy?

00:45:53.340 Like, you understood that she used disproportionately Black men in the state of California as cheap 0.90

00:46:00.360 labor, that even when she was urged to let some people out of prison, she wouldn't because 0.94

00:46:07.460 they were used for cheap labor in the state of California.

00:46:10.560 I mean, she could have used the millions of illegal immigrants there that she allowed in 1.00

00:46:14.980 through her support of sanctuary city policies for that cheap labor.

00:46:17.580 But she chose to use prisoners that could have been let out of jail when California was dealing

00:46:24.540 with a prison crowdedness problem.

00:46:27.040 So, even from, like, a more progressive perspective, I'm just not sure, like, what she brings to

00:46:33.220 the table, again, besides abortion.

00:46:36.220 What is it?

00:46:37.600 It's not her economic policy.

00:46:39.320 It's not her foreign policy.

00:46:40.840 It's certainly not her justice policy. 0.77

00:46:46.800 She also gave a message.

00:46:48.920 She said, joy cometh in the morning.

00:46:51.300 Here's thought six.

00:46:52.060 When we come across our brothers and sisters in need, let us, as the good Samaritan did,

00:46:59.580 see in the face of a stranger a neighbor.

00:47:02.740 And let us recognize that when we shine the light in moments of darkness, it will guide our

00:47:09.700 feet into the path of peace.

00:47:12.700 And let us remember that while weeping may endure for a night, joy cometh in the morning.

00:47:22.940 Okay, that's unironically better exegesis than Russell Moore.

00:47:30.260 Honestly, like, the good Samaritan is actually a good story to point to if you want to say

00:47:36.940 that Christians are called to help the other, to help the poor, to help those that society

00:47:43.660 says are undervalued. 1.00

00:47:45.900 She actually had better theology in that clip than Russell Moore.

00:47:50.200 But of course, all of this is used to say, vote Democrat.

00:47:54.600 Look, Jesus's command to care for the Samaritan, to care for the vulnerable, the actual poor,

00:48:04.700 to heal the sick, the early church in Acts, all of these are commands for the Christian.

00:48:11.960 They are not commands for the state.

00:48:14.740 You don't get to outsource your obedience to God and your care for the vulnerable to

00:48:20.160 the state, which is never giving freely, by the way.

00:48:25.200 Again, you will be placed in jail if you don't pay your taxes.

00:48:28.460 That's not charity.

00:48:29.920 That's not generosity.

00:48:31.780 There is a place for taxes.

00:48:33.380 There is a place for the government.

00:48:35.040 The government is instituted by God to reward good, to punish evil.

00:48:39.180 That's Romans 13.

00:48:40.180 And another reason why I could never vote for Kamala Harris, because she believes in doing 1.00

00:48:43.480 the opposite.

00:48:43.980 She believes in jailing pro-lifers and rewarding abortionists.

00:48:48.260 So I could never support someone who believes that evil is good and good is evil in her policy

00:49:00.540 and what she's actually enacted as a politician. 0.98

00:49:04.440 And so it's just hogwash.

00:49:07.840 It's just hogwash that we could vote for the Democrat Party in the name of caring for and

00:49:15.180 caring for the poor.

00:49:17.100 And Virgil Walker said this.

00:49:19.080 I thought this was a good commentary on this whole thing.

00:49:22.540 He said,

00:49:22.760 Like, tell me how these pastors that do something like this, how are they any different than

00:49:40.860 the tax collectors?

00:49:42.340 Isn't that basically what they are for the Democrat Party?

00:49:45.460 They're just tax collectors of the powerful regime.

00:49:48.340 Yet they will say that they are working on behalf of the most vulnerable and the marginalized.

00:49:54.020 It's the exact opposite.

00:49:57.080 Like, this is actually the scary Christian nationalism, the scary empire that we should be looking at. 1.00

00:50:07.060 Using Christianity to justify supporting demonic progressive ideology that seeks power at any 0.96

00:50:16.400 cost and punishes people like Jack Phillips for standing up for what is good, right, and true.

00:50:23.080 But of course, Christian, Christian conservative, you are being manipulated into silence by this

00:50:30.900 Christian nationalist moniker.

00:50:33.060 So just ignore it and fully and confidently bring your entire worldview into the public sphere

00:50:39.220 because God's ways are better.

00:50:42.040 All right.

00:50:42.800 Last sponsor for the day is NetSuite.

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00:51:40.380 All right.

00:51:41.220 One last announcement.

00:51:43.480 I will be giving commentary on election night.

00:51:47.520 All night.

00:51:48.400 It's going to be really fun.

00:51:49.740 I think it starts at 6 p.m.

00:51:54.220 Eastern time and then ends, I don't know, maybe 11, maybe 1 a.m.

00:52:00.540 I'm not sure.

00:52:01.240 It's going to be a fun night.

00:52:04.140 I never sit and do commentary for that long, but because it's election night, because I

00:52:10.100 want to be plugged in, because I want to be engaging with you guys, talking with you

00:52:14.540 guys, sharing my thoughts, I will be Blaze TV giving commentary all night.

00:52:20.300 It'll be on YouTube.

00:52:21.720 It'll be on Blaze TV.

00:52:23.340 So check it out there.

00:52:24.780 All right.

00:52:25.080 I'll see you guys tomorrow.

00:52:26.020 Bye.

00:52:26.080 Bye.

00:52:26.160 Bye.

00:52:26.200 Bye.

00:52:26.220 Bye.

00:52:26.240 Bye.

00:52:31.240 Bye.

00:52:32.240 Bye.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - October 22, 2024

Ep 1087 ｜ Kamala’s 'Jesus Is Lord' Controversy

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript