Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1088 ｜ 'Demonic Death Cult'： Viral Pastor Speaks Truth About Democrats

00:00:00.880 Pastor Johnny Ardovanis went viral last week for his comments in a sermon about the Democrat

00:00:06.940 Party.

00:00:08.140 Here it is, Sot 1.

00:00:09.780 I'm not a political commentator.

00:00:12.580 I'm a preacher of the Bible, but certain things politically are more theological than they

00:00:17.280 used to be.

00:00:18.160 The Democratic Party is a demonic death cult under the power and influence of Satan.

00:00:23.180 To vote for the Democrats is to vote for a platform that is building their platform upon

00:00:29.760 everything God hates.

00:00:31.900 The mutilation of bodies, the annihilation of babies in the womb, and the sexualization

00:00:36.980 of your children.

00:00:38.060 That is their calling card.

00:00:39.660 That is what they want to do.

00:00:41.520 They don't hide that.

00:00:42.820 They have abortion facilities outside of the Democratic Convention.

00:00:46.240 This is who they are.

00:00:47.140 It's the most radical party in our country's history.

00:00:50.340 So, I don't see how you could be a Christian and vote for a party who promotes everything

00:00:56.740 that God hates.

00:00:57.780 Pastor Johnny is here with us today to help us think through this election.

00:01:04.780 Why do we need to vote as Christians, and who should we vote for?

00:01:09.820 Also, we are going to discuss his incredible book, Consider the Lilies, Finding Perfect Peace

00:01:15.620 in the Character of God.

00:01:17.620 You're going to be so edified by this conversation.

00:01:21.560 This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers.

00:01:24.000 Go to goodranchers.com, code Allie at checkout.

00:01:26.780 That's goodranchers.com, code Allie.

00:01:38.660 Johnny, thanks so much for taking the time to join us.

00:01:41.640 Allie, thanks so much for having me on.

00:01:43.160 Grateful to be here.

00:01:44.300 Yeah.

00:01:44.580 So, people have already seen your clip.

00:01:46.740 We played it last week and at the beginning of this episode.

00:01:50.400 But could you just tell everyone, for context, who you are and what you do?

00:01:54.520 Yeah.

00:01:54.880 My name is Johnny Artavanis.

00:01:56.740 I have a wife, Katie, two girls, Lily Jean, Scotty Joan, one more baby girl on the way.

00:02:03.240 I'm the lead pastor of Stonebridge Bible Church in Franklin, Tennessee.

00:02:07.060 Been there for about a year and a half.

00:02:08.460 Really grateful for the people that God has entrusted me to help shepherd along with the

00:02:13.540 team of elders I serve with, do some resources online, and really grateful to ultimately just

00:02:20.480 be a Christian and thankful to serve.

00:02:23.080 Yeah.

00:02:23.440 Tell me how you became a pastor.

00:02:25.280 You know, I thought being a pastor was the last thing on earth I'd ever, ever be.

00:02:30.280 You know, my dad was a pastor, so growing up, I wanted to be anything but that.

00:02:35.220 But ultimately, I was working at a student ministry camp in Central California, ministering

00:02:41.060 with students.

00:02:41.880 I studied accounting and finance because I thought I wanted to be, maybe one day I would

00:02:46.000 serve on the side and things like that.

00:02:48.800 But I ended up, long story short, I got involved in juvenile hall ministry, started preaching

00:02:54.180 in juvenile hall because that was the only way they would let me in.

00:02:57.020 Yeah.

00:02:57.460 Because there was a student there I wanted to go see, and they would only let you in as

00:03:01.200 a chaplain.

00:03:02.680 And kind of from there, I got connected with this camp called Hume Lake, and I was there

00:03:07.620 for five years.

00:03:08.900 And over time, after being in this evangelistic setting for so many years, I had a hunger and

00:03:12.960 a burden to be in a discipleship context.

00:03:16.080 And it was at that point I got connected, reconnected with John MacArthur and went to work

00:03:21.600 as the dean of student life at the Master's University.

00:03:24.280 And then he allowed me to go back up to Hume Lake in the summers and said, hey, I want

00:03:28.980 you to still have that connection with the evangelistic entity.

00:03:32.360 So I went to Master's, and after a few years at Master's and still my involvement in Hume

00:03:36.680 Lake, I was like, man, I have a burden for evangelism and discipleship.

00:03:41.080 And I think just in God's providence, the only place in the world where you can focus on

00:03:45.860 both of those things in a God-given fashion is the local church.

00:03:49.240 And so I think the Lord just kind of, that's the burden He's put on my heart specifically.

00:03:54.280 And I had started preaching at this church in Tennessee while I was working at Master's

00:03:58.300 just as kind of a guest.

00:04:00.120 And over time, they had started really kind of around COVID.

00:04:03.580 And that's an interesting time to become a pastor.

00:04:06.140 I know.

00:04:06.940 Well, that's when they started and they had no pastor really on staff.

00:04:10.600 It was just a gathering of people.

00:04:11.920 And I was, they had a guy that was teaching kind of, you know, predominantly, but then

00:04:18.300 I became their first full-time pastor about a year and a half ago.

00:04:22.780 And it's been really cool to see how the Lord has blessed our church and kind of a growing

00:04:26.920 team, which has been really sweet.

00:04:28.460 And we've loved the area and they've been really kind to us.

00:04:31.660 This is an interesting time to navigate as a pastor.

00:04:35.100 Maybe all eras are interesting times to navigate, but certainly, as you have argued, our politics

00:04:43.500 are becoming more theological.

00:04:46.120 And so pastors now have this responsibility to speak up about these issues that are considered

00:04:52.160 culture war issues, but are really creation issues for the Christian.

00:04:56.480 You kind of went viral a couple of weeks ago for the comments that you made in your sermon

00:05:02.000 about the Democrat Party.

00:05:03.820 What has that been like?

00:05:05.100 You know, I think you mentioned it.

00:05:07.800 It's a theological issue and not a political one.

00:05:10.200 I grew up, I would say, with godly men in my life.

00:05:12.860 I'm the product of many godly men that still speak into my life.

00:05:16.680 I would say it's kind of been seen, it's kind of been perceived as something you stay out

00:05:21.380 of, you know.

00:05:23.220 But these are not political ideas.

00:05:25.340 And I think, you know, I was listening to your book on the way here.

00:05:27.600 You talk about even 25 years ago, you have Clinton signing the Defense of Marriage Act.

00:05:32.580 You have rare and, when necessary, abortions.

00:05:36.240 And so even those types of realities 25 years ago, I mean, when you're looking at political

00:05:42.920 parties, you're talking about economic plans and things like that.

00:05:46.280 It's not the aggressive and relentless shoving in your face of things that Jesus came to die

00:05:51.920 for.

00:05:52.240 And obviously, when I'm talking to my church, I would say that differently than if I was talking

00:05:57.140 to and have talked to 15-year-old girls that have had three abortions, the tone of that would be

00:06:02.120 different.

00:06:03.020 And so I think, and I can, we can talk about that more, but ultimately I was burdened and

00:06:08.780 people in my church were looking for legitimate answers, you know.

00:06:12.740 And so I want to be able to navigate that with them from a biblical worldview.

00:06:16.200 And Peter says that God has given us his word and given us everything we need pertaining

00:06:19.540 to a life of godliness.

00:06:21.220 And so there's really, it wasn't really difficult.

00:06:23.580 And I said that in the clip, like, hey, this isn't hard for me to say, because I was so

00:06:26.700 surprised that people wanted to hear me say anything on it.

00:06:31.680 And obviously the virality of the clip was shocking to me because I had no idea just calling

00:06:37.440 a spade a spade from a scripture was like so bold, you know, people said, well, thank

00:06:42.400 you for your boldness.

00:06:43.400 I had no idea I'm being bold where the scripture is clear.

00:06:46.780 And so obviously when you're, you're preaching against, you know, the context of our cultural

00:06:51.160 moment, most of the compromise is obviously within the church because we're either ambiguous

00:06:56.460 about these things or silent about these things.

00:06:58.780 And so, yeah, I just mentioned what the Bible says just briefly.

00:07:03.240 It was like a five minute clip in a sermon I was preaching in John chapter seven or John

00:07:09.960 chapter six.

00:07:10.660 And that's typically what I do.

00:07:11.940 I'm going verse by verse through the gospel of John.

00:07:14.260 I'm 10 months in and I'm through chapter seven.

00:07:16.720 So it'll take me three years.

00:07:18.500 But there's different moments within the gospel of John that I try to punctuate what's happening

00:07:23.080 in the culture.

00:07:24.700 But yeah, if you were just to get to your question, what's it been like?

00:07:28.640 I would say it's been surprising and saddening and burdening.

00:07:33.240 Um, because now there's a weight of responsibility and a desire to provide clarity where there's

00:07:39.640 confusion and to live with conviction where there's cowardice.

00:07:43.580 And I don't really see any need to equivocate where the Bible is crystal clear.

00:07:50.120 Um, you responded to a post that we've talked about too by Ray Ortlund who said, never Trump

00:07:55.500 this time here is always Jesus.

00:07:58.020 Um, I don't know how common of a stance this is among Christians, but Ray Ortlund, from what

00:08:05.340 I understand is not fully progressive.

00:08:07.600 He probably aligns with us on a variety of theological issues.

00:08:12.860 Um, and yet this is, uh, this is a position that I see at least some evangelicals hold voting

00:08:20.720 for Kamala Harris because Trump is just so uniquely bad.

00:08:24.500 How do we think about that?

00:08:26.060 Well, I think you have to look at things from, you have to get, gather some perspective.

00:08:30.920 Um, my friend Harry always says that the only gift you can't give yourself is perspective.

00:08:34.680 Meaning you have to kind of zoom out from the way that you're initially perceiving things

00:08:38.800 and you have to look at things through the eyes and lenses of scripture.

00:08:41.280 So he's saying that to your point, because he doesn't like Trump.

00:08:45.200 And to be honest, I think that there's probably certain things you could hone in about his

00:08:49.620 life where you, and you've touched on this, I believe just to go like, yeah, I'm not saying

00:08:53.080 he's my best friend, nor do I want him to be my pastor.

00:08:56.240 Um, I might not, I'm not flying banners off my truck necessarily.

00:09:01.100 Uh, you don't have to be that type of an individual, but you have to look at the policies, um, in a way

00:09:06.440 that supersedes the personalities.

00:09:07.860 And you also have to understand that the president is ultimately the leading figure of a coalition

00:09:12.580 of 5,000 people that they'll elect into governmental positions.

00:09:16.800 And so I don't know how you arrive at that position, honestly, uh, when you're thinking

00:09:22.300 with the mind of Christ, um, you know, you mentioned, Hey, I don't know if Ray is totally

00:09:27.240 progressive and I left his name out of it.

00:09:29.300 And I'm glad I did to a degree.

00:09:31.760 Um, but I, I don't know how you arrive there when you just look at the, uh,

00:09:37.240 full term abortions, the onslaught of sexuality, the absolute dismantling of the nuclear family

00:09:45.820 marriage.

00:09:47.540 You have to, if it was, if it's me, you really have to choose to push past your conscience

00:09:57.380 to be able to say, Hey, I'm, I'm voting for Kamala Harris when she is totally opposed to

00:10:03.880 you, you, you put it in regards to the creation narrative.

00:10:07.560 Um, and that's really what it comes down to.

00:10:09.220 She is opposed to the biblical worldview, like no one else in our country's history.

00:10:13.360 And I don't even, obviously, I'm not even sure if it's just her, it's, she's representing,

00:10:17.820 she's the figurehead of really people that are probably even more so against the God of

00:10:22.100 the Bible.

00:10:22.440 And we live in a country that's reaping the worldview we've sown.

00:10:26.360 Um, because the church has compromised even on that creation element, you know, there's

00:10:32.360 I think three or three to five Christian colleges in America that still adhere to a biblical

00:10:38.860 account of creation.

00:10:40.460 So sometimes we look at the news and we go, man, what happened?

00:10:42.640 I'll tell you exactly what happened.

00:10:43.900 It's not just the culture is always going to be the culture.

00:10:46.200 The world is always going to be the world, but the church is compromised on the ABCs of

00:10:50.740 what it means to be a Christian or to follow the Lord.

00:10:55.080 And now we've kind of dislodged the fulcrum upon which every Christian's worldview should

00:11:02.260 rest.

00:11:02.700 And that's just, what does the Bible say?

00:11:04.380 And if you don't believe the first sentence of the Bible, I don't know where else you're

00:11:07.180 going to start believing.

00:11:08.180 So a lot of those things are tough.

00:11:10.820 So to answer your question about Ray, I don't know how we got there.

00:11:14.040 But I think it is, and I said it, a foolish thing to say and malstewardship to say, hey,

00:11:22.620 go vote for a person that is hellbent on slaughtering babies.

00:11:29.180 It's unthinkable to me, I guess, to be honest.

00:11:32.240 Yeah.

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00:12:41.560 Now, there are Christians who won't vote for Kamala Harris, but they see voting for Trump

00:12:51.400 as compromise because of some of the things that he has said about abortion, even saying

00:12:56.860 that he's going to make sure that we have taxpayer-funded IVF.

00:13:00.120 And, of course, within that industry, we see destruction of innocent life as well.

00:13:05.580 Personally, he's pro-LGBTQ.

00:13:08.120 He's made that very clear.

00:13:10.400 And so I have heard, and this is not the position that I take, and I've articulated my own position

00:13:15.740 several times, and I've already voted for Trump.

00:13:17.660 But I understand where some of my sincere godly friends are coming from when they say,

00:13:23.640 look, if I vote for him, this is just rewarding that compromise.

00:13:29.520 And if the Republican Party realizes that they can take God and marriage out of their platform,

00:13:34.620 they can present someone who is functionally socially liberal, and we keep voting for them,

00:13:40.260 then they have no incentive to ever change.

00:13:43.280 They have no incentive to listen to us as evangelicals.

00:13:46.700 And what would your response be to something like that?

00:13:51.040 You know, I would say, first of all, I think from a political perspective,

00:13:54.820 you would be far more informed than I would be.

00:13:57.480 I'm a common-sense Christian that looks at the news, reads articles, listens to the briefing, you know?

00:14:06.320 I would say, first of all, Trump has already displayed his malleability.

00:14:09.980 He's moved stances.

00:14:11.380 He already elected two Supreme Court justices or put them in positions to be able to overturn

00:14:16.680 Roe v. Wade.

00:14:17.920 We think he is compromised on the abortion.

00:14:20.160 So I would say, well, yes, he is compromised.

00:14:22.260 But then I would say, hey, if you ever watch a Democratic commercial,

00:14:25.040 I watch him while I watch the NFL on Sunday.

00:14:27.740 What they're touting about Trump is his strict, radical position on abortion.

00:14:34.140 He's going to take away your reproductive freedom, your rights.

00:14:37.800 He's going to, you know, he's not going to be, you're not going to be able to have an abortion.

00:14:40.840 So we think he's compromised, which he is.

00:14:44.320 But they're saying his position is so radical that that's the reason they have to keep him out of office.

00:14:49.580 So then I would say, yeah, you, he's not a pastor.

00:14:54.160 And I referenced that in to my church, just saying, hey, this man is a sinner.

00:14:59.060 They're both broken people.

00:15:00.880 But to vote for someone, I referenced it, is the Latin word votum, which means to make a choice.

00:15:06.620 You have two options.

00:15:08.060 And I am totally OK with saying I am punching a ticket against Kamala Harris by voting for Trump,

00:15:16.380 because I'm going to do everything I can do to get Kamala or keep Kamala out of office.

00:15:20.840 Even the language of to make a decision, decidere in Latin means to cut off.

00:15:26.220 I want to cut off the option of Kamala Harris.

00:15:29.960 I'm not even sure if I can say her name.

00:15:31.540 I am saying it wrong.

00:15:33.180 By voting for Trump.

00:15:34.060 She doesn't know either.

00:15:34.280 She's changed it like five times.

00:15:35.800 I know, I know.

00:15:36.660 Someone to correct.

00:15:37.560 That's the one of the largest points of feedback is I say her name wrong.

00:15:41.340 Oh, I didn't.

00:15:42.260 I didn't notice that at all.

00:15:43.440 I thought you said it right.

00:15:44.340 So it's fine by me.

00:15:45.440 So I would, I think in regards to compromise, you know, I wouldn't encourage someone to violate

00:15:51.860 their conscience, but I, as a pastor, want to inform their conscience through the lens

00:15:56.940 of scripture saying, hey, we're choosing between two ungodly people.

00:16:02.060 But I've seen Trump's responsiveness to different Christians.

00:16:08.720 And we may not know what Trump will do when he's in office.

00:16:13.540 Yeah.

00:16:13.980 I know exactly what Kamala Harris is going to do.

00:16:16.980 Yeah.

00:16:17.520 She's going to murder the babies.

00:16:20.260 And just real quick on the abortion thing, because people, this was a huge thing in the

00:16:25.600 last couple of weeks.

00:16:26.660 People say, so are you a single issue voter?

00:16:29.180 Well, first of all, no, I'm not a single issue voter necessarily.

00:16:32.140 I'm a imago Dei voter, which means and includes morality, sexuality, authority of scripture, truth,

00:16:41.760 destiny, origin.

00:16:42.640 All of those things are wrapped up into what we see as, and the product of that is abortion.

00:16:48.100 But if I had to make a stance on a single issue, I'm totally fine saying the murder of

00:16:54.280 babies is the one.

00:16:55.920 Yeah.

00:16:56.040 So even, even amongst Christians saying, oh, you're just a single issue voter.

00:16:59.420 I'm just like, well, I think that's a pretty important issue because it's revelatory of

00:17:05.160 a worldview.

00:17:05.980 Yeah.

00:17:06.380 And there's, and there's nothing else like it.

00:17:09.060 I, you know, I hear a lot of people saying, well, I'm holistically pro-life or I'm pro-life

00:17:13.320 womb to tomb.

00:17:14.160 Yeah.

00:17:14.540 Which I think really dilutes what the anti-abortion position is.

00:17:18.300 It's like suddenly our immigration policy is just as important as whether a baby has a

00:17:24.760 right to not be murdered, which of course is not, um, not the same thing.

00:17:29.060 And, and by the way, cause I hear that a lot too, single issue.

00:17:32.080 And I'm like, well, abortion is the single issue for Democrats.

00:17:35.720 It's there.

00:17:36.560 They are single issue voters.

00:17:38.040 Actually, when I see people like Steph Curry or other people who say that they are going

00:17:43.520 to vote for Kamala Harris and the reason they give every single person, whether it's Taylor

00:17:47.940 Swift or Ben Stiller or whoever it is, every single person has said reproductive rights,

00:17:54.380 women's healthcare, which are euphemisms for abortion.

00:17:57.080 So if it's their number one issue, the pagans, why can't it be our number one issue in the

00:18:03.260 other direction?

00:18:04.580 Yeah.

00:18:04.820 And we just, I think as Christians, we, we do have a responsibility to uphold righteousness

00:18:09.740 in the land and to prevent, you know, Jesus says, uh, you're the salt of the earth, not

00:18:16.540 you can be, or should be, you are.

00:18:18.640 And one of the main things that salt does is prevent corruption.

00:18:21.560 And one of the chief hallmarks of the corruption in our culture is that even many within the

00:18:29.240 church have been lulled and doled, uh, into the acceptability of abortion just as, yeah,

00:18:35.140 it, yeah, we, we're not for it.

00:18:37.660 And I think the more that I kind of think and pray through it, God loves babies.

00:18:42.120 And so obviously I want my tone as a pastor to reflect, um, a staunch conviction.

00:18:48.720 And that's where even when I said, and I think necessarily to circle back to say, if

00:18:52.420 I'm talking with a 15 year old, that's debating having one, I'm saying, listen, God loves your

00:18:58.140 baby.

00:18:58.780 He says in Ezekiel, that baby belongs to me.

00:19:01.140 It says in Psalm 119, 74, I, that God forms and fashions us in the womb.

00:19:05.900 Psalm 139 as well.

00:19:06.820 So it is a, it is a sad and tragic indictment on our world and in our culture, 200,000 babies

00:19:12.960 aborted every single day.

00:19:14.600 Yeah, it is.

00:19:16.380 Um, why not Jesus 2024?

00:19:20.640 Why not?

00:19:21.560 We're the party of the lamb and that's it.

00:19:24.200 And Jesus is coming back.

00:19:25.260 So who cares?

00:19:26.480 You know, Jesus has ultimate authority.

00:19:28.160 That's what he says.

00:19:29.020 Matthew 28, all authority in heaven and earth has been given to me, but he delegates his authority

00:19:33.200 to individuals.

00:19:34.740 And we can talk about this more as the conversation progresses.

00:19:38.840 I am, uh, totally believe that God is sovereign, which means that he rules and he reigns.

00:19:44.880 He is the supreme authority in the universe.

00:19:47.880 Psalm 93, our God reigns.

00:19:49.660 Psalm 97 verse one, our God reigns.

00:19:51.240 Psalm 99, God reigns.

00:19:52.760 But I think sometimes on a quest to elevate God's sovereignty, we can limit our responsibility

00:19:57.920 and the privilege that we have.

00:19:59.320 You know, um, that would be like Esther saying, okay, Ahasuerus is going to murder the Jews

00:20:05.100 in 127 provinces.

00:20:06.980 Let's just entrust herself to the sovereignty of Yahweh.

00:20:09.740 That's not the way the book goes.

00:20:11.120 There's not even the mention of God in the book of Esther, but you have Mordecai pleading

00:20:15.700 with Esther to say, hey, go talk to him.

00:20:17.820 And there's an, a level of responsibility.

00:20:20.140 She says, if I perish, I perish.

00:20:21.580 And we all know the line and we like the story, but there is a passivity that I think culture,

00:20:29.220 um, Christians think is godly, but there's nothing godly about being passive, especially

00:20:34.860 when morality is in play.

00:20:37.640 I think too, there's a misunderstanding of precedent.

00:20:41.540 Sometimes we get this idea that this is what Christians have done for, you know, thousands

00:20:47.040 of years.

00:20:47.820 But if you look at Zwingli, if you look at Calvin, if you look at Jonathan Edwards, his,

00:20:53.680 you know, his ministry to get the Native Americans blankets and to, you know, there, those are,

00:20:58.340 I'm picking three big reformed figures saying that there was always this push to be able

00:21:04.060 to, to care for other people and to address moral issues.

00:21:07.540 And that's the, the responsibility of the church.

00:21:09.900 So I would disagree with the Jesus 2024 thing.

00:21:12.480 And I think in my clip, I mentioned, Hey, listen, yeah, he is already King.

00:21:17.260 Um, but we have the freedom also to be able to, uh, try to sway, uh, things in a way that,

00:21:26.820 uh, we would continue to have those liberties.

00:21:28.940 And, and I said in the clip that the establishment of the church, Jesus building his church, the

00:21:35.240 gates of hell will not prevail.

00:21:36.500 We're not on defense.

00:21:37.800 We're on offense.

00:21:38.480 The continuation of the church is not going to be deterred by a political party with that

00:21:44.300 being said, there's a massive difference in the church in North and South Korea.

00:21:49.580 And so, and Christians in America, we get $400 billion away to charity every year because

00:21:55.300 we experienced those religious freedoms.

00:21:56.940 So I, I trust that Jesus is going to continue to build his church, but I'm also thankful and,

00:22:02.220 uh, try to, and want to recognize that part of the reason why God has used the church

00:22:07.640 in America is because of the freedoms we have.

00:22:12.020 And so I don't want to lose those because the Lord has used them.

00:22:16.000 Yeah.

00:22:16.320 And we see that the government is instituted by God to reward good and punish evil.

00:22:21.580 When I look at Kamala Harris, I see that throughout her career, she has punished good and rewarded

00:22:26.620 evil.

00:22:27.580 I mean, the Harris Biden administration has put pro-lifers, peaceful pro-life protesters in

00:22:33.480 federal prison, a 74 year old for three years because of her peaceful demonstration in front

00:22:38.720 of an abortion clinic, even while rewarding Planned Parenthood.

00:22:42.240 And I look at Donald Trump and I think, well, Donald Trump's probably going to pardon those

00:22:45.880 people.

00:22:46.440 And so that's rewarding good and hopefully punishing evil by defunding Planned Parenthood.

00:22:50.860 So even just looking at the basic function of the government, Donald Trump seems to be

00:22:56.260 more of the candidate of order than Kamala Harris.

00:22:59.000 And I love how you put it in your, you just in that clip, you said, we have a responsibility

00:23:03.460 to help stem the tide of evil.

00:23:07.400 Can you talk about that a little bit more?

00:23:09.400 Yeah.

00:23:09.600 And I think part of it is just going along with what I said regarding salt being a preservative,

00:23:15.280 a preventer of corruption.

00:23:16.960 It's also a purifier because it is disseminated into the pollutants.

00:23:22.840 And so when I say stem the tide of evil, we are called as Christians to shine bright in

00:23:29.400 a world of darkness.

00:23:30.160 That's even what salvation is.

00:23:31.760 That's first Peter that God has called us out of darkness into his marvelous light so

00:23:34.840 that we can declare that light to the lost world around us.

00:23:38.260 With that being said, even going along with what you said, mentioning Romans 13, that's

00:23:42.760 the function of the government is to punish evildoers and protect those who do good.

00:23:48.620 That's the very basic function of government.

00:23:51.280 And when government does the antithesis of that, we need to address that because that's

00:23:56.100 part of our responsibilities as citizens.

00:23:58.740 So I, yeah, just in regards to stemming the tide of evil, even for non-believers, we have

00:24:08.100 a responsibility not just to share Christ, but for the morality and the authority of scripture

00:24:13.260 to reign in our world and in our culture.

00:24:16.640 That doesn't mean we're, you know, extreme Christian nationalists and you address even

00:24:21.520 the euphemisms people use.

00:24:24.100 No, we want to usher in a world that closely resembles the worldview of scripture.

00:24:31.560 And I think that's why for the last 250 years, God has blessed our country to be the greatest

00:24:35.780 civilization in human history because we adhered in a way close to that.

00:24:41.340 Yeah, because we love our neighbor.

00:24:43.760 And if we believe that God is love, the best way to love him is to agree with him.

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00:26:14.960 I've seen this perspective a lot.

00:26:17.900 This is from a writer at The Gospel Coalition, and he posted, it's okay if you're a Christian

00:26:22.920 and you vote for Trump.

00:26:23.980 It's okay if you're a Christian and you don't vote for Trump.

00:26:26.080 It's okay if you're a Christian and you vote for Harris.

00:26:28.300 It's okay if you're a Christian and you don't vote for Harris.

00:26:30.720 It's okay if you vote for neither.

00:26:33.020 And this is kind of where I see a lot of pastors leave it, and they feel like this is giving

00:26:37.980 clarity to their congregation, that basically we're above politics, we transcend politics,

00:26:43.580 and therefore whatever you choose is fine.

00:26:47.000 I see this as confusion.

00:26:48.900 I see their congregants looking to podcasts and TikTok and Instagram to tell them, okay,

00:26:53.700 but what am I supposed to think, which I'm just not sure is a healthy place for them

00:26:57.420 to be.

00:26:59.300 Perpetual obscurity is never clarity.

00:27:02.300 So that's even why, and you, you know, I mentioned that there were pitfalls on either

00:27:07.220 side, for sure, but I did say one on the left is the Grand Canyon, meaning like, yeah, if

00:27:14.020 you want to be perceived as balanced, and more and more, honestly, Allie, I just hate the

00:27:20.180 word balanced, because it feels like you're trying to show that you kind of get, you know,

00:27:26.940 I understand that there are pitfalls here, so you never really make an argument.

00:27:30.840 Part of what a pastor does, you know, I remember my dad telling me when I was 12,

00:27:36.100 Johnny, what's the goal of preaching?

00:27:38.400 One word, persuasion.

00:27:41.320 You're making an argument.

00:27:42.860 You're proving something from the text, and obviously, when the text of Scripture intersects

00:27:47.920 with the political and moral world, I'm not trying to make suggestions.

00:27:51.800 I'm trying to make an argument, and I think typically, in the past, it has been acceptable

00:27:58.480 to be able to say, hey, I want you to think through this with discernment.

00:28:01.080 You're called, Matthew 10, to be shrewd as serpents, innocent as doves, 1 Chronicles 12,

00:28:05.440 the sons of Issachar, were people that understood the times.

00:28:09.040 And so there was, hopefully, an informed worldview where you could assume that people were making

00:28:14.140 educated decisions.

00:28:16.460 But, yeah, and I've seen recently other pastors that have said, you know, this party's bad,

00:28:21.360 but this party, you know, the Republicans are just as bad.

00:28:26.400 Not at all.

00:28:27.860 Not at all.

00:28:28.580 So in response to the Gospel Coalition writer, I don't know him individually or personally,

00:28:34.020 I would just say that's, no, if you're a Christian, and if you're at my church, I would plead and

00:28:41.140 persuade you.

00:28:42.440 I would not just say, I want to do that.

00:28:44.800 I would say, no, no, it's a sin to vote for sin.

00:28:48.680 And obviously, then the rebuttal would be like, what about Trump or whatever?

00:28:53.100 I would just say, well, no, that's a less aggressive stance on what the left or radical

00:28:59.300 secularism wants to do in dismantling the nuclear family, demolishing the authority of Scripture.

00:29:07.580 And so, yeah, I wouldn't subscribe to that mentality.

00:29:11.520 You mentioned it, that it's confusing.

00:29:13.540 But it's not just confusing.

00:29:15.160 I think it's cowardice.

00:29:17.900 Because you can't read the Scripture and come to the conclusion.

00:29:25.060 I mean, I would have a hard time.

00:29:27.180 I think even you mentioned Ray.

00:29:28.520 I think Ray, Ortlund, and I are going to be in glory together.

00:29:33.080 I don't know his heart, you know, but I have a hard time with what he said.

00:29:39.900 And it was, for me, confusing why no one else was saying anything about it.

00:29:45.720 So I think, no, I would not subscribe to that.

00:29:49.460 You need to be clear for God's people.

00:29:51.860 That's part of what a pastor does.

00:29:53.900 Yeah.

00:29:54.160 And I wanted to at least try to do that as best I can.

00:29:59.120 Yeah.

00:29:59.600 Clarity is a gift.

00:30:00.800 I think some people confuse moral relativism and impartiality.

00:30:04.540 They think they're being impartial, which, of course, God calls us to do.

00:30:07.820 But really, they're just being confusing or, as you said, cowardly.

00:30:11.720 And I think it's different, too, because I've heard different older men that I really respect say, I've never endorsed a political candidate.

00:30:17.440 And I would say what I did wasn't even, I wasn't making an endorsement, hey, Trump's the man.

00:30:25.400 Yeah.

00:30:25.620 I was saying Kamala Harris is evil.

00:30:29.420 And so you have to try to keep her out of office, which is different than me saying, putting my arm around Trump's shoulder and saying, vote, vote, vote, vote.

00:30:38.880 You know, fist bumping him and taking photos, which I think he's a funny guy, but compromising those different things.

00:30:44.980 So that would be different in my mind than making an endorsement of this individual.

00:30:49.480 I've seen his character.

00:30:50.400 I know how he leads his family.

00:30:52.000 He loves the Lord.

00:30:53.300 Yeah.

00:30:53.580 Which I'm not doing.

00:30:54.960 Right.

00:30:56.200 There's a lot of anxiety.

00:30:57.960 Yeah.

00:30:58.420 About the future.

00:31:00.140 Obviously, there always has been because we see Jesus's refrain.

00:31:04.560 Yeah.

00:31:05.080 Do not worry.

00:31:06.220 Do not be anxious.

00:31:07.160 But today, I think all of us are worried, no matter who wins, what kind of country we'll have for our kids and for our grandkids.

00:31:16.420 Will they have the same protections and freedoms that we have?

00:31:20.120 And a lot of people are dealing with fear.

00:31:22.180 And you've written a book about anxiety called Consider the Lilies.

00:31:27.220 Tell me before we talk about what's in it, what inspired you to write it?

00:31:32.160 Yeah.

00:31:32.880 No, I was really thankful for the opportunity to write.

00:31:35.200 The inspiration behind writing was when I was working at that student camp, you know, there are a thousand new high school students that would come every week.

00:31:44.340 They would leave on Saturday, and then on Sunday, another thousand would get bussed in.

00:31:49.060 And within like three weeks of working there, I became accustomed to terms like panic attack, anxiety attack, self-harm, depression.

00:31:57.280 When was this?

00:31:58.280 What years?

00:31:59.440 2016, 17 through 22, really, was my involvement there.

00:32:04.660 And I still go up there to preach in the summers.

00:32:08.280 And so that was just a unique world for me to navigate and was talking with 15-year-olds that were anxious.

00:32:15.920 That could have been over AP U.S. history, or it could have been, I've had three abortions.

00:32:20.360 Will God ever forgive me?

00:32:21.720 Massive spectrum.

00:32:22.600 And then I found that the counselors and pastors that came alongside those students, if they weren't struggling with anxiety themselves, were at least wondering how to minister to those that were assigned to their care.

00:32:34.360 And I started doing an optional seminar in the afternoons entitled, What Does the Bible Say About My Anxiety?

00:32:40.920 What Does Jesus Say About My Anxiety?

00:32:42.780 And it was during free time activities like paddleboarding and, you know, volleyball and flirting or whatever it may have been.

00:32:49.520 But the students were coming, really, the large percentage of them because they were so crippled by it.

00:32:57.080 You know, at night, at camp, we have to distribute the meds for students.

00:33:02.020 And just over the last few years that I was there, that amount of medications that was being dispensed just for the students that were anxious grew exponentially.

00:33:12.000 Then I went from, you know, you could say, okay, those are students.

00:33:14.480 Not all of them came from solid homes.

00:33:16.340 Some of them just were coming to a Christian camp for the week because that was their opportunity to get away.

00:33:21.640 Then I went from there to a Christian university where students attended Bible classes, Bible chapels, and went to Bible churches.

00:33:28.380 And the issue was still prevalent.

00:33:30.000 And I just began to really think through, like, how does God respond to the anxious?

00:33:36.580 And I wanted to encourage them.

00:33:37.920 And then obviously now I'm a lead pastor of a church.

00:33:40.900 And the composition of struggles, there's a level of variance there.

00:33:44.340 But whether someone is 16 or 73, there is that looming element of anxiety.

00:33:50.360 And you see so many responses to our anxiety in the scripture that it's not a new issue.

00:33:56.680 Obviously, Solomon says that there's nothing new under the sun.

00:33:58.940 And so this has plagued the people of God for years and years and years.

00:34:02.720 And there are other good resources that I have read, but not one with the predominant thesis that I wanted to pursue.

00:34:09.080 And we can talk more about that.

00:34:10.440 But that was at least the heart behind it.

00:34:12.800 Yeah.

00:34:13.020 Tell me about that thesis.

00:34:14.800 Yeah.

00:34:14.980 So in regards to just mainly what the book is about, you know, I just begin to trace how does God respond to the anxious in his word?

00:34:22.380 You know, and I think it's probably worth mentioning that sometimes people feel condemned just for feeling anxious.

00:34:27.780 But you have all these different figures in God's word, like David, who is a warrior and the man after God's own heart.

00:34:33.640 At one point, he's going to pray in the Psalms.

00:34:35.880 Every single night, I make my bed swim with tears.

00:34:38.640 Yeah.

00:34:38.880 You have Moses, who is the leader of two million people, the giver of the law.

00:34:42.860 And he says, I don't want to go to Pharaoh.

00:34:44.500 I don't talk good.

00:34:45.640 He says, stutter.

00:34:46.460 Right.

00:34:46.660 And I send someone else.

00:34:48.520 And then you have Elijah, who's the prophet of faithfulness.

00:34:52.340 He's going to stand shoulder to shoulder with Jesus Christ and Moses on the Mount of Transfiguration.

00:34:57.220 And at one point, after he defeats 850 false prophets, slaughters them, he's going to crawl into a cave and ask God to take his life.

00:35:06.100 Then you have Job, who is the most blameless man on earth.

00:35:10.540 At one point, he's saying every single night, my life is tuned to the sound of mourning.

00:35:16.660 And I mentioned those figures just to show you that those are four of the godliest characters in the Old Testament.

00:35:23.880 And they deeply struggled with anxiety and despair.

00:35:26.920 But the way that God responds to them is not by telling them, let me tell you why this is happening.

00:35:33.240 But by telling and responding them, let me tell you who I am.

00:35:36.660 And when God responds to Job, he doesn't say, okay, Job, let me tell you about the conversation that I had with Satan.

00:35:41.260 And here's why the Sabaeans and Chaldeans and wind and fire attacked everything you had.

00:35:44.680 He says, Job, gird your loins.

00:35:46.880 I'm going to give you an understanding of my character.

00:35:49.220 And for four chapters, God goes on and reveals his character.

00:35:52.440 And at the end of the book, Job says, my ears have always heard, but now my eyes see.

00:35:57.820 And when God responds to Elijah, it's the same thing.

00:36:00.380 Gives him a nap and a snack, and then he proclaims his character.

00:36:03.360 When David says, why are you downcast on my soul?

00:36:05.300 God proclaims his character.

00:36:07.000 And when Moses says, I can't talk well, send someone else.

00:36:10.600 God responds to Moses and says, who made man's mouth?

00:36:13.860 And proclaims his character.

00:36:16.320 And I mentioned those Old Testament examples.

00:36:19.400 And sometimes people would say, well, how does Jesus respond in the new?

00:36:22.400 And I would just say, well, based on the reality that God never changes,

00:36:25.280 neither does the prescription he provides as the great physician.

00:36:27.940 And so when Jesus is on the mount, the sermon, giving the sermon on the mount,

00:36:32.520 you have people that are anxious, you know?

00:36:35.380 And I think sometimes, Allie, we think, oh, their struggles were so different than our own.

00:36:38.840 You know, our struggles today, our anxieties today.

00:36:41.020 But we have to remember that the Jewish people that Jesus was addressing

00:36:45.000 were under the ruthless regime of Rome.

00:36:47.160 They used to crucify men, women, and children for 40 miles, leading to a city

00:36:51.060 that said, basically, don't mess with Rome.

00:36:53.540 It was literally the Roman Tetrarch Herod who chopped off the head of John the Baptist

00:36:58.660 and his relative that killed all the babies in Luke and Matthew.

00:37:05.900 So it was an oppressive regime.

00:37:08.760 And Jesus says to them, you know, don't be anxious about what you're going to eat,

00:37:15.060 what you're going to drink, what you're going to wear for clothing.

00:37:17.260 And he doesn't stop there.

00:37:18.600 And I think sometimes that's an important reminder that he doesn't just provide a prohibition.

00:37:24.300 He provides the pathway forward.

00:37:25.760 And then he gets them to think.

00:37:27.340 And he says, hey, look at those lilies over there.

00:37:29.900 And obviously, the name of my book is Consider the Lilies

00:37:31.820 because that's the way Jesus beckons his anxious followers to think

00:37:36.220 because psychologists think that anxiety is the product of thinking too much.

00:37:42.160 Jesus says anxiety is the fruit of thinking too little about the character of God.

00:37:45.820 And so he just says, hey, I want you to consider the lilies over there.

00:37:48.820 They neither toil nor spin, yet not Solomon.

00:37:51.060 And all of his glory was provided for like one of them.

00:37:55.020 Look at the birds over there.

00:37:55.960 Do the birds elect captains of food acquisition?

00:37:58.280 Do they have chief supply chain officers?

00:38:00.100 No, two of them are sold for a single cent, it says in Matthew 11.

00:38:03.460 But God takes care of them.

00:38:05.800 And Jesus argues from the lesser than to the greater than and says,

00:38:09.320 hey, if I care for the larks and I care for the lilies,

00:38:11.600 how much more am I going to provide for those who are made in my image

00:38:14.860 and who have been blood-bought by my son?

00:38:18.140 And so he gets us to look to the character of God.

00:38:21.460 And I think sometimes we pray, God, take away my anxiety,

00:38:24.720 but our life has a very shallow rooting in the depth of God's character.

00:38:30.460 And when God is responding to all these individuals in his word,

00:38:33.600 he wants them to know something.

00:38:36.120 He wants them to know something deeper about who he is.

00:38:38.320 Obviously, the size of our faith is always in proportion to the size of our God in our mind.

00:38:45.060 And so that's the focal point of the book is on the attributes of God that buoy the anxious,

00:38:52.240 provide us with comfort, provide us with encouragement.

00:38:54.920 And I think, Ali, sometimes we look at the attributes of God,

00:38:58.420 which would be his love, his wisdom, his sovereignty, which means he's in control.

00:39:03.220 The fact that he's omniscient, which means he's all-knowing.

00:39:06.440 The fact that he hears our prayer.

00:39:08.540 Sometimes we look at those attributes like pieces of the pie that is God.

00:39:12.840 So we think he's 50% love, 10% sovereign.

00:39:15.340 But God has all of his attributes all of the time in full measure.

00:39:18.860 So let's pretend you're going through something difficult.

00:39:21.520 I remember when my friend's mom died in college,

00:39:26.060 I watched the guy come up and slap him on the back and say,

00:39:29.120 hey, God's sovereign, brother.

00:39:31.300 You can trust him, which would be true.

00:39:33.860 But God's sovereignty can never be divorced from his love nor his wisdom.

00:39:37.660 And so all of these attributes have to be looked at comprehensively

00:39:41.440 because God's not just the king of the universe.

00:39:45.340 He's also a loving father.

00:39:46.860 But if we view him only as a loving father

00:39:48.880 and divorce that from the reality that he is the king

00:39:52.120 who is established and thrown in the heavens,

00:39:54.080 then his love as a father is just sentimentality.

00:39:57.440 And it lacks the power that we need to know.

00:40:00.180 Ecclesiastes 9, my entire life is in the palm of his hands.

00:40:03.900 And so I think we have a deficient view of God

00:40:06.140 because we have a deficient at times commitment to his word.

00:40:10.380 And, you know, there's so many different,

00:40:13.340 obviously just a big piece of my heart,

00:40:14.940 but the prohibition even in Philippians 4, 6,

00:40:18.460 be anxious for nothing,

00:40:20.080 but by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving,

00:40:22.240 let your requests be made known to God.

00:40:23.720 And then it says the peace of God

00:40:24.940 will guard your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus.

00:40:27.720 But he doesn't stop there.

00:40:29.580 Paul then goes, therefore, brethren,

00:40:31.260 whatever is pure, noble, excellent, lovely,

00:40:33.160 dwell on these things.

00:40:34.240 And there's no more noble subject,

00:40:37.660 no more lovely subject

00:40:38.980 than the character of the God we call father.

00:40:41.480 And so that's why the subtitle is

00:40:43.180 Finding Perfect Peace in the Character of God.

00:40:45.680 But peace isn't so much something we find,

00:40:48.580 it's something we receive

00:40:49.900 when our minds are rooted in scripture

00:40:52.020 and in God's character.

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00:42:42.560 also a girl,

00:42:43.640 a girl parent like you are.

00:42:45.640 And obviously one of my chief sources of worry

00:42:50.340 is thinking about their future,

00:42:52.260 their safety,

00:42:53.020 their protection.

00:42:53.840 I try not to be a paranoid person.

00:42:56.060 And I've heard many times,

00:42:58.320 which of course I know it's true,

00:43:00.280 that God loves my kids

00:43:02.200 more than my husband and I even do.

00:43:05.380 But I also know that really bad,

00:43:09.740 terrible, awful things happen to people

00:43:12.860 that I would never allow to happen to my kids

00:43:16.020 if I had the power to stop it.

00:43:18.260 If I had the power to stop them

00:43:19.920 from getting cancer

00:43:20.880 or getting kidnapped

00:43:22.100 or hurting themselves,

00:43:24.040 I would.

00:43:25.640 But God sometimes doesn't.

00:43:28.180 And so how do we as parents

00:43:30.760 acknowledge that God could let something

00:43:33.420 really bad happen to our kids

00:43:35.380 that we wouldn't

00:43:36.680 and still have peace

00:43:38.840 and still believe that He loves them

00:43:40.940 more than we do?

00:43:41.740 Yeah, it's a deep question.

00:43:45.180 You know,

00:43:45.440 and the longest chapter in the book by far

00:43:47.240 is on the sovereignty of God

00:43:48.840 and our suffering.

00:43:50.500 How do we reconcile those realities?

00:43:52.840 You know,

00:43:53.120 I'm a father to two girls.

00:43:55.500 I would never want anything to happen to them.

00:43:58.080 And I'm a child of God

00:43:59.520 and yet God allows me to suffer.

00:44:03.440 There's a long answer

00:44:04.700 and then there's,

00:44:05.940 I'll give you hopefully a short one.

00:44:08.340 Romans 8, 28,

00:44:09.300 everybody is,

00:44:10.300 you know,

00:44:10.940 familiar with

00:44:11.540 if you've grown up in the church

00:44:12.680 that God is working all things out for good

00:44:14.920 and for His glory

00:44:16.300 to those who love Him

00:44:17.160 and are called according to His purpose.

00:44:19.340 Many people stop there

00:44:20.660 and they put a period there

00:44:22.260 rather than a comma

00:44:23.180 and they understand

00:44:24.760 that God working everything out

00:44:26.160 for our good

00:44:26.780 is our material comfort,

00:44:28.620 our safety,

00:44:29.820 our physical well-being.

00:44:31.220 but the reason

00:44:32.780 that God allows us to suffer

00:44:35.200 is because suffering

00:44:36.860 in the scripture

00:44:37.500 in James

00:44:38.220 and in 1 Peter

00:44:39.140 are the very instruments

00:44:40.700 that God uses

00:44:41.500 to wean us from this world

00:44:43.160 and to remind us

00:44:44.340 that we're pilgrims.

00:44:46.040 We're on our way

00:44:46.860 to a better country.

00:44:48.340 And so we have to remember

00:44:49.120 even in our suffering,

00:44:50.060 829 of Romans says,

00:44:52.100 those whom He foreknew,

00:44:53.940 He also predestined

00:44:54.840 to be conformed

00:44:55.580 into the image of His Son.

00:44:57.840 So what's God's good plan

00:44:59.360 for your life?

00:45:00.320 I think a lot of people miss this.

00:45:02.000 God's plan for your good

00:45:03.520 is your conformity to Jesus.

00:45:07.100 And the only way

00:45:07.920 you're going to be conformed

00:45:09.000 into the image of Jesus

00:45:10.000 is if you are refined

00:45:12.100 in the furnace of affliction.

00:45:14.300 But if that objective,

00:45:15.940 you becoming like Jesus,

00:45:17.220 isn't good,

00:45:18.240 you're never going to be able

00:45:19.320 to have joy

00:45:19.900 in any sort of trial

00:45:20.860 in your life.

00:45:21.840 And obviously,

00:45:22.440 you mentioned your kids,

00:45:23.480 which is different

00:45:24.440 maybe than a trial

00:45:25.200 because I don't want anything

00:45:26.540 to happen to them.

00:45:28.020 You know,

00:45:28.200 even this book

00:45:28.780 was written providentially

00:45:30.640 while I thought

00:45:31.680 our daughter was going to die.

00:45:32.920 You know,

00:45:33.080 we're just kind of

00:45:33.720 pacing the hospital.

00:45:34.480 They told us

00:45:34.920 she had a terminal disease.

00:45:36.480 And obviously,

00:45:37.520 my suffering

00:45:38.140 and our experience

00:45:39.060 pales in comparison

00:45:39.960 with even some of the people

00:45:41.020 that may read the book.

00:45:42.120 And so I'm always careful.

00:45:43.600 But the credibility

00:45:44.720 of me being able

00:45:45.800 to articulate

00:45:46.520 the truth of God's Word

00:45:47.820 in suffering

00:45:48.260 isn't because I suffered

00:45:49.240 on your level,

00:45:49.900 but because God's Word

00:45:51.360 is applicable

00:45:51.840 to all ranges

00:45:53.480 of human suffering.

00:45:55.100 But why does God

00:45:56.240 allow us to suffer?

00:45:57.220 Why does He allow us

00:45:58.040 to go through difficulty?

00:46:00.280 The one answer is

00:46:01.320 we don't always know.

00:46:03.480 Hindsight's not going

00:46:04.200 to be 20-20.

00:46:05.700 That's not,

00:46:06.260 you know,

00:46:06.420 sometimes people say

00:46:07.280 this all makes sense

00:46:08.120 in 10 years.

00:46:08.700 No,

00:46:08.860 it might not make sense

00:46:09.660 until 10 billion years

00:46:10.860 when we've been with Jesus.

00:46:13.380 But on a human level

00:46:14.640 and an immediate level,

00:46:15.600 we know that the testing

00:46:16.420 of our faith

00:46:17.000 produces perseverance

00:46:18.060 and that perseverance character

00:46:20.040 and the character

00:46:20.940 imitation of Jesus Christ.

00:46:23.120 And so much could be said there.

00:46:25.800 I would want to do it

00:46:26.720 with a,

00:46:28.080 true words are not always

00:46:29.380 easy to swallow.

00:46:30.520 And so there would be

00:46:31.160 a level of tenderness

00:46:31.980 if I was sitting down

00:46:32.800 with someone

00:46:33.160 and I was walking them

00:46:34.060 through something

00:46:34.660 that they've gone through.

00:46:36.160 And I'd always want

00:46:36.640 to make sure that

00:46:37.400 they understood

00:46:38.640 the full spectrum

00:46:40.040 of the character of God,

00:46:41.280 that He's not capriciously

00:46:42.600 pulling strings.

00:46:44.700 And that's,

00:46:45.060 I think,

00:46:45.600 that's when we divorce

00:46:46.860 God's love

00:46:47.880 from His sovereignty.

00:46:48.700 We just get this idea

00:46:49.560 that God's in heaven

00:46:50.320 saying,

00:46:50.780 let's give Him

00:46:51.300 a dose of difficulty.

00:46:52.480 And that's not

00:46:53.620 the reality at all.

00:46:54.540 He weeps with those

00:46:55.360 who weep.

00:46:56.080 It says in Isaiah

00:46:56.880 and in the Psalms

00:46:57.660 that He holds our tears

00:46:58.640 in a bottle.

00:46:59.860 And if you ever have

00:47:00.740 a problem with

00:47:01.540 the sovereignty of God

00:47:02.580 and our suffering,

00:47:03.380 just know that

00:47:03.920 in the sovereignty of God,

00:47:05.740 He caused the greatest evil

00:47:07.260 to accomplish

00:47:08.220 the greatest good.

00:47:09.300 And that is in

00:47:09.980 the death of Jesus Christ,

00:47:11.800 who was not murdered

00:47:13.080 against His will.

00:47:14.420 He went to the cross

00:47:15.200 willingly for the joy

00:47:16.320 that was set before Him.

00:47:17.800 And so whenever we think

00:47:18.940 that God's just exercising

00:47:20.480 His sovereignty flippantly,

00:47:21.540 we just have to know

00:47:22.460 that it was in Galatians

00:47:23.860 it says He was killed

00:47:25.360 before the foundation

00:47:26.340 of the world

00:47:27.060 because this was always

00:47:28.120 God's plan.

00:47:29.000 And so He sympathizes

00:47:31.180 and you mentioned this

00:47:32.120 in your book

00:47:32.620 that He sympathizes

00:47:33.860 with our weaknesses,

00:47:34.580 but He also knows

00:47:35.580 what it's like

00:47:36.180 to feel pain.

00:47:38.720 And so He,

00:47:39.820 you know,

00:47:40.160 He understands

00:47:41.580 and that's why

00:47:43.760 it's a broad answer,

00:47:45.700 but I would never want

00:47:46.820 to not include

00:47:47.680 that He's,

00:47:49.160 in His sovereignty,

00:47:50.540 His son suffered.

00:47:51.800 Yeah.

00:47:52.340 I've heard some people

00:47:53.900 try to square God's sovereignty

00:47:55.900 with His goodness

00:47:56.620 and love for us

00:47:57.620 by saying that

00:47:59.560 God never wants

00:48:01.740 bad things for us.

00:48:03.060 He never wants us

00:48:04.120 to be sick.

00:48:04.980 He never wants us

00:48:06.060 to go through bad things.

00:48:07.720 I'm not sure exactly

00:48:08.520 how they would explain it,

00:48:09.680 that I guess Satan being

00:48:10.900 the prince of the power

00:48:11.640 of the air

00:48:11.980 has that power

00:48:12.860 and God has allowed that,

00:48:15.680 but in non-reformed circles,

00:48:18.360 I hear this a lot,

00:48:19.900 that basically God

00:48:20.840 never wants bad things

00:48:22.480 for people.

00:48:23.020 That's never the Father's heart

00:48:24.480 for His children.

00:48:25.540 How would you respond

00:48:26.420 to something like that?

00:48:28.120 I would say

00:48:29.020 that's not true,

00:48:30.440 biblically speaking,

00:48:31.520 because it says

00:48:32.160 in 1 Peter

00:48:32.840 that we suffer

00:48:33.820 according to the will of God.

00:48:35.940 It says in Acts 14, 22,

00:48:37.640 through many tribulations

00:48:38.780 we will enter

00:48:39.440 the kingdom of God.

00:48:41.140 Jesus tells His followers,

00:48:42.360 the world is going to hate you

00:48:43.700 because it hated me.

00:48:45.800 So I would,

00:48:46.820 and I would want to walk

00:48:49.380 carefully through

00:48:50.080 an individual

00:48:50.640 that is saying that,

00:48:52.140 but suffering

00:48:53.160 is a part of the will of God

00:48:54.960 for our life,

00:48:56.340 especially as Christians,

00:48:58.120 because if there was

00:48:59.520 no suffering,

00:49:00.660 there would be

00:49:01.240 perpetual comfort

00:49:02.160 here on earth,

00:49:03.080 which would give us

00:49:04.260 the illusion

00:49:04.960 that this is our home.

00:49:06.860 So does that say,

00:49:10.260 the Westminster Confession

00:49:11.320 of Faith

00:49:11.660 talks about this in detail.

00:49:12.760 God's never the author

00:49:13.720 of evil,

00:49:15.020 but He does allow evil,

00:49:17.300 but not just allow evil,

00:49:18.740 He's orchestrating

00:49:20.260 a perfect plan

00:49:22.160 that uses evil

00:49:23.280 to accomplish His good.

00:49:24.840 And you mentioned

00:49:25.660 Corrie ten Boom

00:49:27.000 in your book,

00:49:27.660 but Corrie ten Boom

00:49:28.380 references

00:49:28.820 a poem called

00:49:31.260 the,

00:49:32.360 I think it's

00:49:32.840 The Grand Weaver

00:49:33.560 that we only see

00:49:35.160 the top of the tapestry

00:49:36.880 that God is weaving,

00:49:38.200 whereas God sees

00:49:38.920 the under.

00:49:39.820 And He uses the knots

00:49:41.020 and He uses the wrinkles

00:49:42.020 and He uses the dark threads

00:49:43.400 to accomplish

00:49:44.100 His perfect plan.

00:49:46.060 So God's plan

00:49:46.780 isn't just for our good

00:49:48.140 in this life.

00:49:50.380 It includes our suffering,

00:49:52.080 and you can't get

00:49:52.720 any clearer than that,

00:49:53.840 than Peter saying

00:49:54.560 that we suffer

00:49:55.760 according to the will of God.

00:49:57.460 We're sojourners,

00:49:58.800 we're exiles,

00:49:59.840 we're pilgrims,

00:50:00.620 and one day

00:50:01.740 He's going to wipe away

00:50:03.080 every tear.

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00:51:20.280 How do we

00:51:25.180 pray against

00:51:26.600 anxiety?

00:51:27.640 What does that

00:51:28.000 look like?

00:51:29.560 You know,

00:51:29.980 I mentioned

00:51:31.200 it briefly,

00:51:31.960 but we,

00:51:33.080 I would say

00:51:33.920 you don't want

00:51:34.560 to just pray

00:51:35.080 against anxiety

00:51:36.080 because obedience

00:51:37.600 is not just

00:51:39.260 the absence

00:51:40.920 of anxiety,

00:51:41.720 it's the presence

00:51:42.860 of peace and joy

00:51:43.960 in your life.

00:51:44.960 Because joy

00:51:45.980 is not an optional

00:51:47.480 extra in the Christian life,

00:51:48.840 it's an imperative.

00:51:49.560 Rejoice always,

00:51:50.840 and again,

00:51:51.180 I say rejoice,

00:51:52.420 but I would say

00:51:52.880 you have to learn

00:51:53.520 how to pray

00:51:54.200 scripturally.

00:51:56.620 What that means

00:51:57.200 is,

00:51:57.960 I mentioned it,

00:51:58.640 not just saying

00:51:59.060 God take away

00:51:59.540 my anxiety,

00:52:00.240 but God help me

00:52:00.940 to trust

00:52:01.820 that you are in control,

00:52:03.060 help me to know

00:52:03.580 that you love me,

00:52:04.880 help me Lord

00:52:05.940 to know that

00:52:07.020 you know every

00:52:07.580 nook and cranny

00:52:08.160 of my heart,

00:52:09.180 even one of the

00:52:09.740 chapters in my book

00:52:10.560 is on,

00:52:11.300 I mentioned

00:52:11.660 the omniscience

00:52:12.260 of God.

00:52:13.260 So you're praying

00:52:13.980 that Lord,

00:52:14.500 would you please

00:52:15.160 take the truth

00:52:16.000 of your word

00:52:16.600 and plant it deeply

00:52:17.440 into the soil

00:52:18.100 of my heart.

00:52:18.720 When David's anxious,

00:52:20.480 you know,

00:52:20.680 David is on the run

00:52:21.440 from his father-in-law

00:52:22.180 Saul for 10 years.

00:52:23.900 He's living in caves.

00:52:25.060 He's not always

00:52:25.560 living in palaces

00:52:26.380 and he's saying,

00:52:27.340 oh Lord,

00:52:27.540 you search me

00:52:28.100 and you know me,

00:52:28.700 you know when I sit

00:52:29.220 and when I rise

00:52:29.860 and he's presumably

00:52:30.600 writing this

00:52:31.220 when he's living

00:52:31.840 in fear,

00:52:32.840 running for his life

00:52:33.640 and so I just pray

00:52:34.740 back the scripture

00:52:35.440 to God.

00:52:36.360 It's not novel concepts,

00:52:38.080 it's biblical ones

00:52:39.060 just say,

00:52:39.580 okay,

00:52:40.200 oh Lord,

00:52:40.700 if you do search me

00:52:41.560 and know me,

00:52:42.080 help me to believe that,

00:52:42.980 help me to know

00:52:43.400 that when I sit

00:52:43.920 or when I rise,

00:52:44.660 you're with me,

00:52:45.100 you perceive my thoughts

00:52:45.900 from afar,

00:52:46.740 whether I go up

00:52:47.400 to the heavens,

00:52:47.980 you're there,

00:52:48.400 if I descend to the depths,

00:52:49.480 you're there,

00:52:49.780 if I rise in the wings

00:52:50.480 of the dawn,

00:52:50.860 you're there,

00:52:51.200 help me to believe

00:52:51.720 that everywhere I go,

00:52:52.640 Lord,

00:52:53.040 you're with me today

00:52:54.020 and you get to pray

00:52:55.840 different scriptures

00:52:56.700 in the sense of,

00:52:58.300 Lord,

00:52:58.400 I believe,

00:52:58.800 but help my unbelief.

00:52:59.660 I know that Psalm 103,

00:53:01.060 19 says,

00:53:01.860 the Lord has established

00:53:02.520 his throne in the heavens

00:53:03.460 and his sovereignty

00:53:04.580 rules over all,

00:53:05.360 but Lord,

00:53:05.800 in my own life,

00:53:07.040 I believe in my sovereignty,

00:53:08.960 would you help me to know

00:53:10.220 that you're in control?

00:53:11.540 John 15 says,

00:53:12.520 to abide in my love,

00:53:13.500 Lord,

00:53:13.760 sometimes I theologically

00:53:14.860 affirm your love,

00:53:16.280 but I have not tasting

00:53:18.360 and seeing that reality,

00:53:20.200 Psalm 34,

00:53:20.880 in my own life today

00:53:21.880 and so we pray that

00:53:24.000 and then we pray that

00:53:25.040 in conjunction

00:53:26.960 and in concert

00:53:27.840 with the people of God

00:53:28.780 because faith

00:53:29.320 is a community project.

00:53:31.060 I think sometimes,

00:53:32.200 you know,

00:53:32.520 you may pray with your husband,

00:53:33.960 but praying is,

00:53:36.480 you know,

00:53:36.680 if you're just going to stop

00:53:37.480 in the middle of a conversation

00:53:38.400 with your friend

00:53:38.960 and say,

00:53:39.240 can we just pray real quick

00:53:40.140 and ask that God

00:53:40.780 would give us a peace

00:53:41.460 that surpasses all understanding

00:53:42.860 because we know

00:53:44.180 that he's wise and good

00:53:46.340 and just help him,

00:53:48.200 ask him to,

00:53:49.100 through his spirit,

00:53:50.020 give us the conviction

00:53:50.760 that's true.

00:53:51.920 We need to pray that

00:53:52.880 also together

00:53:54.140 so more could be said there

00:53:56.200 and then we have to also trust

00:53:57.840 that when we pray,

00:53:58.720 he hears our prayers.

00:54:00.460 It's not a blind jump

00:54:02.320 into the darkness.

00:54:03.600 It's an intimate relationship

00:54:06.400 and intimacy with God

00:54:09.440 is a prerequisite

00:54:10.620 to receiving the peace

00:54:12.360 that comes from God

00:54:13.140 and do people

00:54:15.180 maybe feel the presence

00:54:18.120 of God's peace

00:54:18.960 in their life

00:54:19.520 because they're strangers

00:54:20.880 to intimate,

00:54:22.700 deep,

00:54:23.240 committed prayer?

00:54:23.980 So it's an important question.

00:54:26.040 Consider the lilies

00:54:26.980 finding perfect peace

00:54:28.220 in the character of God.

00:54:29.420 John MacArthur says,

00:54:30.520 this book is exceptional

00:54:31.540 in every way,

00:54:32.600 which is a really good endorsement.

00:54:34.320 He's a nice guy.

00:54:35.380 He is.

00:54:35.880 That's amazing.

00:54:36.880 So they can get this

00:54:38.040 wherever books are sold,

00:54:39.340 correct?

00:54:39.540 Correct.

00:54:39.860 And I can't think of a more

00:54:41.700 timely read.

00:54:43.100 I mean,

00:54:43.540 also very evergreen

00:54:44.880 in that every generation

00:54:46.260 feels like we are dealing

00:54:47.540 with worse challenges

00:54:48.520 than we've ever seen.

00:54:51.200 And yet,

00:54:51.560 going back to the scriptures,

00:54:54.100 going back to church history,

00:54:55.820 seeing the plight of his people

00:54:57.800 throughout history

00:54:58.640 and that God's dictate

00:55:00.320 was still,

00:55:01.780 don't worry,

00:55:02.640 don't be anxious.

00:55:03.760 That alone gives us

00:55:04.880 a lot of peace for today.

00:55:06.560 Something that I ask

00:55:07.780 some guests to do

00:55:09.320 every now and then

00:55:11.140 with the last few minutes

00:55:12.340 that we have left

00:55:13.060 is just to share the gospel.

00:55:15.340 So could you tell us

00:55:16.360 what is the gospel?

00:55:18.300 Yeah,

00:55:18.780 I'd love to.

00:55:20.340 The gospel is first and foremost

00:55:22.100 starting with the reality

00:55:23.160 that God is the creator

00:55:24.800 of the universe.

00:55:27.020 Francis Schaeffer used to say

00:55:28.060 that if I had 60 minutes

00:55:29.060 to share the gospel,

00:55:30.380 I'd spend the first 55 minutes

00:55:31.960 explaining to an individual

00:55:33.160 that they were made

00:55:33.860 in the image of God.

00:55:35.160 Because if I start

00:55:35.820 with sin

00:55:36.400 rather than the fact

00:55:37.880 that we are created

00:55:38.740 by God and for God,

00:55:40.060 it's like starting

00:55:40.720 a book in the middle

00:55:41.540 without an understanding

00:55:42.520 of the beginning.

00:55:43.260 Good point.

00:55:43.780 So we're made

00:55:44.620 in the image of God.

00:55:46.600 The Bible records

00:55:47.800 in Genesis 3

00:55:48.440 that there is a real

00:55:49.400 historical fall of man

00:55:50.880 where the cosmos

00:55:51.820 is fractured

00:55:52.640 and sin and death

00:55:53.460 entered the world

00:55:54.360 and now mankind

00:55:55.680 is alienated from God

00:55:57.400 and there needs

00:55:58.340 to be an atoning,

00:55:59.420 a covering,

00:55:59.980 a payment

00:56:00.460 for our sin.

00:56:02.600 It says in Psalm 51 5

00:56:04.180 that in sin

00:56:05.680 did my mother

00:56:06.240 conceive me

00:56:07.020 which means

00:56:07.580 in contrast

00:56:08.580 to what some people

00:56:09.580 may think,

00:56:10.180 you're not born good

00:56:11.100 and then tainted

00:56:11.740 by your environment.

00:56:13.280 You are born sinful.

00:56:14.720 Ephesians 2 says

00:56:15.720 that we are born

00:56:16.340 dead in our sin.

00:56:17.520 We're enemies of God.

00:56:18.980 We're children of wrath

00:56:21.640 in the sense that

00:56:23.000 you're born sinful

00:56:24.640 and nothing you do

00:56:26.020 could ever earn

00:56:26.820 your way to God.

00:56:27.760 That's one of the things

00:56:28.520 the religious leaders

00:56:29.380 during Jesus' day

00:56:30.420 thought that by works,

00:56:32.080 by their religious devotion,

00:56:33.800 they were going to

00:56:34.880 bridge the gap

00:56:35.760 between them

00:56:36.340 and a holy God.

00:56:37.520 Going back just real quick

00:56:38.620 to the element of God

00:56:39.520 as creator,

00:56:40.180 he's also holy

00:56:40.940 which means that

00:56:41.760 he doesn't tolerate sin.

00:56:43.420 He's not the bigger

00:56:44.080 and better version of you.

00:56:45.480 He's not quantitatively different

00:56:47.120 meaning that he's just bigger.

00:56:48.220 He's qualitatively different

00:56:50.160 which means he's totally other

00:56:51.520 and God's holiness

00:56:52.960 means that there is

00:56:53.960 total separation

00:56:55.200 from us and sin.

00:56:56.860 In the Old Testament,

00:56:57.940 one of the things

00:56:58.440 that God provided

00:56:59.060 for his people

00:56:59.680 was a sacrificial system

00:57:01.020 where the payment for sin

00:57:03.080 would be satisfied,

00:57:05.780 temporarily covered

00:57:06.700 because God is holy,

00:57:08.540 he's also just.

00:57:09.780 Sometimes people say

00:57:10.500 you have to understand

00:57:11.280 the bad news

00:57:11.860 before you can understand

00:57:12.700 the good news.

00:57:13.720 I don't know why

00:57:14.220 people say that

00:57:14.880 because I don't think

00:57:15.760 anybody wants a God

00:57:16.780 that is indifferent

00:57:17.480 towards sin, right?

00:57:19.460 You don't want to,

00:57:20.280 you wouldn't want to judge

00:57:21.200 that said no biggie

00:57:22.180 to injustice or sin

00:57:24.920 and so because God is holy,

00:57:26.640 he punishes sin

00:57:27.560 and in the Old Testament

00:57:28.660 we see kind of a foreshadowing

00:57:31.760 of what Jesus would do.

00:57:33.500 The sin would be,

00:57:35.340 the justice would be poured out

00:57:36.440 on a substitute

00:57:37.200 and then the sinner

00:57:39.640 could have reconciliation,

00:57:41.160 a right relationship with God.

00:57:42.760 All of these things

00:57:43.800 in the Old Testament

00:57:44.440 for thousands and thousands

00:57:45.920 and thousands of years.

00:57:47.300 I just imagine

00:57:47.940 and because the Bible's a story

00:57:49.680 and not just a theological

00:57:50.920 check boxes,

00:57:53.720 they were saying

00:57:54.780 it's not finished.

00:57:56.100 More sacrifices,

00:57:57.040 more sacrifices,

00:57:57.960 more sacrifices.

00:57:59.320 But when Jesus comes

00:58:00.200 onto the scene,

00:58:00.820 a real historical man

00:58:02.160 2,000 years ago

00:58:03.160 that walked the earth,

00:58:05.240 John the Baptist says,

00:58:06.080 behold the Lamb of God

00:58:07.260 who takes away

00:58:07.920 the sin of the world.

00:58:09.140 Because he was born

00:58:10.640 of a virgin,

00:58:11.260 he not only died

00:58:13.140 because people say

00:58:13.860 he came to die for our sin

00:58:14.840 but he didn't drop down

00:58:15.840 on a Friday,

00:58:16.420 go back up on a Sunday.

00:58:17.580 He not only had to die for us,

00:58:18.800 he had to live for us.

00:58:19.980 He had to be tempted

00:58:20.600 in every way we were tempted

00:58:21.720 yet without sin

00:58:22.700 and he lived a life

00:58:24.140 of total sinless,

00:58:25.720 blameless perfection

00:58:26.860 because he satisfied God's law

00:58:29.100 in all the ways

00:58:30.080 that we never could.

00:58:31.720 Then he was slaughtered

00:58:33.040 on a cross.

00:58:34.240 That is a historical reality

00:58:35.800 and God poured out,

00:58:37.680 Isaiah 53 says,

00:58:39.220 700 years before Jesus died,

00:58:41.340 poured out the full measure

00:58:42.600 of his wrath towards sin.

00:58:45.100 You know,

00:58:45.580 God hates sin,

00:58:47.000 sin must be punished.

00:58:48.300 Jesus said,

00:58:48.980 I will bear it

00:58:49.700 and on the cross

00:58:50.680 it says he was pierced

00:58:51.660 for our transgressions,

00:58:52.620 he was crushed

00:58:53.220 for our iniquities

00:58:54.020 and the chastisement

00:58:55.360 for our peace

00:58:56.020 fell upon him

00:58:57.140 but he didn't stay dead

00:58:59.600 and this is the apex

00:59:00.820 of history

00:59:01.920 and the apex

00:59:02.980 of the Christian doctrine

00:59:04.460 is that three days later

00:59:05.940 Jesus rose from the grave.

00:59:07.880 That is a historical

00:59:09.020 and verifiable reality

00:59:11.020 that Jesus rose triumphant

00:59:12.800 from the grave

00:59:13.640 and what that signifies,

00:59:15.500 Ali,

00:59:15.780 is so important.

00:59:17.080 It means that

00:59:17.920 it's the receipt

00:59:19.340 given to us by God

00:59:20.860 that first of all,

00:59:22.140 Jesus was God.

00:59:23.040 He's not a prophet,

00:59:24.020 he's not just a good man,

00:59:25.340 he's not just a moral teacher,

00:59:27.160 he is God

00:59:27.840 and it says in Romans 1-4

00:59:28.960 that he was declared

00:59:29.680 to be the son of God

00:59:30.520 with power by the resurrection.

00:59:32.360 So he's proven to be God

00:59:33.240 but not only that,

00:59:33.960 it's the receipt

00:59:34.540 given to us from God

00:59:35.660 that on the cross

00:59:36.820 all of the punishment

00:59:38.540 towards sin

00:59:39.260 was satisfied

00:59:39.900 in the personal work

00:59:40.800 of Jesus Christ

00:59:41.580 which means that

00:59:42.860 if you give your life to him

00:59:44.640 and you believe in Jesus

00:59:46.140 and that's the key,

00:59:46.980 how do I receive this?

00:59:48.040 How do I receive

00:59:48.560 the forgiveness of sins?

00:59:49.820 Well, you can't do anything,

00:59:51.020 you just believe

00:59:51.660 that Jesus paid it all

00:59:52.720 and that's one of the great hymns

00:59:53.600 of the Christian faith,

00:59:54.720 Jesus paid it all

00:59:55.540 and our response to that

00:59:57.060 is all to him I owe.

00:59:58.880 Obviously much more

00:59:59.700 could be said

01:00:00.340 but in short,

01:00:02.320 God is a holy God

01:00:03.200 and he sent his holy son

01:00:05.300 to pay the penalty

01:00:06.880 for our sin

01:00:07.700 because you never could.

01:00:10.160 He saved us

01:00:10.780 from the wrath of God

01:00:11.840 in eternal hell

01:00:12.840 and he rose from the grave

01:00:15.060 and now what he gives us

01:00:15.920 is his Holy Spirit

01:00:16.960 and the peace of God

01:00:18.360 and obviously my book

01:00:19.280 is about finding peace

01:00:20.380 in anxious times

01:00:21.240 but no one can experience

01:00:22.900 the peace of God

01:00:23.760 unless they're at peace

01:00:24.960 with God

01:00:25.560 through faith

01:00:26.380 in Jesus Christ.

01:00:27.980 Amen.

01:00:28.540 Thank you so much.

01:00:29.760 My pleasure.

01:00:30.280 Thank you for having me on.

01:00:33.200 Thank you.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - October 23, 2024

Ep 1088 ｜ 'Demonic Death Cult'： Viral Pastor Speaks Truth About Democrats ｜ Guest： Jonny Ardavanis

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