Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1103 ｜ Laken Riley’s Murder Trial： Chilling Details & Why It Matters ｜ Guest： Dr. Albert Mohler

00:00:01.000 Lake and Riley's murder is on trial in Georgia.

00:00:04.740 We've got all the details about that today and why he will not receive the death penalty,

00:00:11.480 even if found guilty of her brutal murder.

00:00:14.400 We've also got Dr. Al Mohler.

00:00:16.120 He will be discussing his concerns as well as his gratitude for some of Trump's appointments

00:00:22.440 in his new administration.

00:00:24.780 And we will also be discussing his new Advent devotional.

00:00:28.880 And so we've got a lot to cover on today's episode of Relatable.

00:00:32.000 It's brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers.

00:00:34.060 Go to GoodRanchers.com.

00:00:35.240 Use code Allie at checkout. 1.00

00:00:36.300 That's GoodRanchers.com, code Allie.

00:00:48.240 Hey guys, welcome to Relatable.

00:00:50.260 Happy Tuesday.

00:00:51.260 Hope everyone has had a wonderful week so far.

00:00:53.420 We have decorated for Christmas on the Relatable set.

00:00:58.680 I always love how this looks every year.

00:01:00.920 And look, I am typically a decorate after Thanksgiving girl.

00:01:06.400 Definitely not listening to Christmas music until after Thanksgiving.

00:01:10.600 I am even one of those crazy people who will hold off until December 1st.

00:01:15.160 I don't know why this year was just different.

00:01:17.720 At home, I took down my decorations November 1st.

00:01:21.400 I think I was kind of anxious about the election and I just wanted something to do the weekend

00:01:26.120 before.

00:01:26.800 So I took down all of our decorations from our attic.

00:01:30.480 I put everything up.

00:01:31.440 The only thing that we are holding off on right now is the actual Christmas tree.

00:01:36.960 And I still have one pumpkin decoration.

00:01:40.400 So I am holding on to autumn just a little bit before we celebrate Thanksgiving.

00:01:45.460 Thanksgiving, but we only have two weeks here in studio after Thanksgiving before we go

00:01:53.200 on Christmas break.

00:01:54.200 So that leads me into just like a little housekeeping announcement.

00:01:56.960 We've got three weeks where we won't be recording episodes.

00:02:00.080 We still will have some episodes, new episodes coming out, but the Relatable team will be taking

00:02:05.180 a break.

00:02:05.500 So since we only had those two weeks between Thanksgiving and our Christmas break, we wanted

00:02:10.180 to maximize, we wanted to, um, have as much time as possible to celebrate Christmas.

00:02:16.120 And later we will be talking to Albert Moeller, not only about his thoughts when it comes to

00:02:21.820 RFK as the head of HHS, but also his new Advent devotional.

00:02:26.140 So we will be talking a little bit about Christmas today.

00:02:29.660 Unfortunately, we have less cheery news to start with.

00:02:33.160 I have been following closely the trial of Jose Ibarra, the illegal alien accused of killing

00:02:39.540 Lakin Riley.

00:02:41.260 So I want to get into the details of this case today, and I want to issue a warning to you

00:02:46.440 specifically Christians and even more specifically Christian women about the propaganda campaign 0.92

00:02:52.840 and the gaslighting that is coming your way because Donald Trump has promised to deport

00:03:00.060 illegal aliens, starting with violent criminals. 0.98

00:03:04.000 And what you are going to hear from the media, from some professing evangelical activists over

00:03:12.120 the next few years, is that this is cruel.

00:03:15.540 This is draconian.

00:03:16.620 This is immoral.

00:03:17.900 This is unchristlike.

00:03:19.260 This is unchristian.

00:03:20.960 And I want you to be prepared for the emotional manipulation.

00:03:24.220 And later, I'll read a segment from my book, Toxic Empathy, that talks about this issue

00:03:29.380 specifically.

00:03:30.520 When I was writing this book, and when I got to the fourth lie that's discussed in Toxic

00:03:36.620 Empathy, No Human is Illegal, I was a little nervous about writing this chapter.

00:03:41.680 Of course, we've talked about immigration many times on this show, but not as often as we talked

00:03:48.400 about the first three lies in the book, abortion and gender nonsense and the redefinition of

00:03:56.960 holy, wholesome sexuality and marriage.

00:04:01.240 And so I thought that this would kind of be a little bit of a slog for me to write this

00:04:06.080 chapter, and yet it wasn't.

00:04:07.460 It was actually the easiest chapter to write because I think this issue of illegal immigration

00:04:13.640 is so incredibly straightforward.

00:04:16.200 There is so much unnecessary and preventable loss of life due to the illegal alien problem, 1.00

00:04:25.900 the illegal immigration problem that is caused by the deliberate policy positions of those

00:04:32.520 who are supposed to be representing American interests.

00:04:37.500 And Lake and Riley's death is just one gruesome example of that.

00:04:41.320 And so it's so important as we are trying to think about this issue, not from only an anecdotal

00:04:49.360 perspective, but a principled perspective, a biblical perspective.

00:04:54.200 And as we are trying to prepare ourselves and immunize ourselves from the emotional manipulation

00:05:00.220 campaign that's coming, it's so important for us to remember Lake and Riley and the details

00:05:06.420 of this case.

00:05:07.680 So let me give you a summary, and then we'll get into some really disturbing parts of this

00:05:12.840 that are important for us to know.

00:05:15.160 26-year-old Jose Ibarra, the illegal alien from Venezuela accused of killing 22-year-old

00:05:21.220 Georgia nursing student Lake and Riley is on trial currently for murder.

00:05:25.720 On the second day of the trial, several new tragic revelations popped up about Lakin's

00:05:30.340 struggle to fight back, taxpayer-funded flights to Georgia, and Ibarra's gang affiliation.

00:05:37.500 So here's just kind of a recap of what's gone on.

00:05:42.200 Prosecutor said Ibarra attacked and killed Riley while she was jogging along trails near

00:05:47.560 Lake Herrick on the University of Georgia campus in Athens on the morning of February 22nd.

00:05:53.080 And this especially hits close to home.

00:05:56.980 I met my husband in Athens.

00:05:58.740 I moved to Athens right after college and lived and worked there for several years.

00:06:05.420 I led a Bible study of freshman girls when I was freshly graduated from college.

00:06:12.140 And I know a lot of the life and the people that fill that town.

00:06:19.680 It's a good place, a beautiful town.

00:06:23.400 This is a tragedy no matter where it happens.

00:06:27.420 But when you have been a part of a community and you've lived in a town and you've walked

00:06:35.360 where the crime has happened and you've known people that know the person, you've known people

00:06:42.940 just like her, it makes it even more real and even more tangible.

00:06:50.780 And I still have many friends and family members who live there and we'll get to their personal

00:06:56.800 testimonies in just a little bit.

00:07:00.200 But this has hit that community so hard, as you can imagine.

00:07:06.200 Ibarra is charged with 10 counts total, including one count of malice murder, three counts of

00:07:11.260 felony murder, one count of kidnapping, one count of aggravated assault with intent to

00:07:16.020 rape, one count of aggravated battery, one count of hindering a 911 call, one count of tampering

00:07:22.220 with evidence and one count of being a quote unquote peeping Tom.

00:07:26.200 Ibarra pleaded not guilty to all counts and waived his right to a trial by jury.

00:07:33.480 We'll explain what that means in a minute.

00:07:35.200 And the judge will be determining Ibarra's guilt.

00:07:39.960 So we'll get into some more details in just a second.

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00:08:58.100 So the prosecutor gave her opening statement and it was just chilling and so disturbing to

00:09:07.860 listen to as she just laid out so plainly why Ibarra is guilty.

00:09:14.480 Here's thought to.

00:09:15.120 The evidence will show that Lakin fought.

00:09:21.340 She fought for her life.

00:09:24.400 She fought for her dignity.

00:09:28.000 And in that fight, she caused this defendant to leave forensic evidence behind.

00:09:38.600 She also marked her killer for the entire world to see.

00:09:47.180 He had been apparently, according to her opening statement, walking around different apartment

00:09:55.920 complexes, basically hunting for a woman to rape.

00:10:00.320 And then he found Lakin Riley jogging by herself on a Sunday morning and he tried to rape her.

00:10:09.860 And it was so sad and just so jarring to hear the prosecution describe the state that Lakin Riley was in when the police officer found her.

00:10:22.380 And I'm sorry, this is graphic, but I just think we really need to grapple with what happened to this young lady.

00:10:28.760 She fought so hard for her life.

00:10:31.380 She fought so hard for her dignity.

00:10:33.240 She was almost completely unclothed.

00:10:37.500 I mean, because of how hard she fought, she wasn't all the way exposed.

00:10:43.440 But when the police officer found her laying there with her skull crushed in by the rock that Ibarra allegedly picked up and hit her with, at least half of her body was completely naked because he tried and failed, thank the Lord, to rape her before murdering her.

00:11:06.980 According to Riley's Garmin watch, that's a brand of a smartwatch, it was a Christmas present that she had gotten that she used for running that was synced to her iPhone.

00:11:20.180 Investigators found that she had placed a 911 call at 9.11 a.m. just minutes after she left for her run at 9.03.

00:11:29.740 She then fought for her life for 17 minutes, so they can actually see her heart rate from her Garmin watch that it spiked for those 17 minutes as the adrenaline was pumping through her veins.

00:11:44.960 She was doing absolutely everything that she could to fend him off.

00:11:49.140 And then they saw through her smartwatch data when her heart stopped at 9.28.

00:11:55.820 DHS sources confirmed to News Nation on Monday that Ibarra is a member of Trin de Aragua.

00:12:02.480 This is the dangerous Venezuelan gang that has infiltrated and plagued many parts of our country with extreme violence. 1.00

00:12:09.380 We talked about this problem in Aurora, Colorado, a suburb of Denver, where Trin de Aragua has taken over several apartment complexes, has terrorized the communities there. 0.93

00:12:23.180 You'll remember J.D. Vance was on, I believe it was NBC, talking to the host Martha, and she was trying to fact check him on this story.

00:12:33.580 And she said, hang on, it's not a lot of apartment complexes that this gang took over.

00:12:39.100 It's just a handful of apartment complexes.

00:12:42.180 So that tells you where the progressive elites are on this issue.

00:12:47.180 They don't want to believe that this is a problem because they believed that allowing open borders and then eventually giving these people amnesty and solidifying their right to vote would then enshrine democratic power forever.

00:13:05.380 They believed that they believed that they were building this new coalition of immigrants.

00:13:11.560 And people say that the great replacement theory is some kind of conspiracy theory, but they have said so very plainly.

00:13:21.400 They do believe that replacing native-born Americans with immigrant populations will make the country more progressive as they will be more likely to vote Democrat. 0.59

00:13:31.540 Now, we saw from the exit polling from the election that actually Latino men are mostly voting for Donald Trump and almost half of Latino women voted for Donald Trump.

00:13:43.620 So I don't think that their scheme is really working.

00:13:47.360 All it's doing is causing chaos and violence.

00:13:50.220 All it's doing is costing the lives of young women in particular who are citizens of this country.

00:13:58.240 Now, here is a little bit about Ibarra's background, and it just goes to show how much policy matters.

00:14:04.260 It has a real effect on people's lives.

00:14:06.800 Ibarra illegally crossed into the United States through El Paso in September 2022.

00:14:13.180 He was released into the U.S. via parole.

00:14:16.040 ICE previously confirmed that Jose Ibarra had been arrested by the New York Police Department a year after he entered the U.S. in August 2023.

00:14:24.280 Not because he was here illegally, but because he committed an additional crime.

00:14:29.040 He was charged in August of last year with acting in a manner to injure a child less than 17 years old at a motor vehicle license violation.

00:14:41.040 And so he tried to injure a child.

00:14:44.580 We don't know whom.

00:14:45.620 We don't know how old.

00:14:47.460 He was acting recklessly.

00:14:50.040 He was breaking several laws.

00:14:52.020 And yet he wasn't deported.

00:14:53.780 He actually wasn't even detained.

00:14:55.740 We found out during the trial on Monday, Ibarra's former roommate told the court through an interpreter that she, Ibarra, and several others requested and were granted free humanitarian flights from New York to Georgia.

00:15:10.300 So he was the beneficiary of Biden's catch and release policy at the border.

00:15:18.720 So he was detained when he tried to cross illegally in 2022.

00:15:22.180 And then he was released into the interior of the United States per Biden's policies.

00:15:28.820 And then he was the beneficiary of a catch and release policy because of progressive soft on crime policies in New York.

00:15:36.060 And not only that, but he was actually given the gift as a reward for the crimes that he had committed.

00:15:42.300 He was given the gift of a free taxpayer funded flight from New York to Georgia, where he eventually killed Lake and Riley.

00:15:50.080 Here's Sot3.

00:15:50.640 And how did you get to Athens?

00:15:54.680 In New York, we asked, in Manhattan.

00:15:57.780 In the Hotel Roosevelt.

00:15:59.160 And Hotel Roofing?

00:16:00.980 Roosevelt, Roosevelt.

00:16:01.820 Roosevelt.

00:16:03.440 In Manhattan, we requested for a humanitarian flight to come here to Atlanta.

00:16:12.920 And when was that?

00:16:15.840 And when was that?

00:16:17.680 Around the 9th, 10th of September.

00:16:26.680 New York City had set up a so-called reticketing center paid for by the Biden-Harris administration,

00:16:32.360 a.k.a. us, our tax dollars, to provide so-called migrants, illegal aliens, with taxpayer funded one-way plane tickets out of NYC.

00:16:41.300 The move was designed to relieve pressure on city services due to the more than 130,000 asylum seekers.

00:16:49.400 I mean, this is such a racket.

00:16:52.320 So what the Biden administration does is it allows these people into the interior of the United States.

00:16:58.800 These people are not refugees or asylum seekers, by the way.

00:17:02.980 Refugee has a legal definition.

00:17:05.080 Asylum seeker has a legal definition.

00:17:07.080 There is a legal way to seek asylum.

00:17:09.120 There is a legal way to claim refugee status.

00:17:13.260 This idea that all illegal immigrants are all refugees that are fleeing violence is not true.

00:17:19.760 Yes, they are all seeking a better life, but that does not give you the right to enter a country.

00:17:25.080 Seemingly every other nation understands this, except for the United States and other Western nations and European nations in the West.

00:17:34.740 But if you tried to go to China for a better life, if you tried to go to Japan for a better life, if you tried to go to Zimbabwe for a better life and you tried to receive taxpayer funded services, you would be at the very least deported immediately.

00:17:52.200 But America, because we have been so manipulated by propaganda, because we have such a low capacity and such a minimal understanding of true justice.

00:18:03.340 We have such a minimal appreciation for sovereignty and citizenship and rights and laws.

00:18:10.180 And of course, I'm not talking about you and me, but I'm talking about just in general and our politicians and how we've gotten here.

00:18:17.440 We, unfortunately, allow people, even the most violent, wretched people in the world to come into the United States to live on the taxpayer dime, be rewarded for their violent crimes and to kill our fellow citizens.

00:18:36.700 And we do it all in the name of inclusion and compassion and empathy.

00:18:41.200 Apparently, these illegal aliens, including Ibarra, chose the Atlanta area.

00:18:48.200 Atlanta is about an hour and 45 minutes from Athens because Ibarra's brother had already relocated there and repeatedly told the suspect that there were plenty of jobs, according to the former roommate's testimony.

00:19:00.420 Also on Monday, police officers who had gone to Ibarra's apartment the day after Lincoln's murder testified about what Ibarra was wearing, which matched security camera footage on the day of the murder, the appearance of several scratches on Ibarra's arms and neck, which were consistent with the victim fighting back.

00:19:18.560 You heard the prosecutor say that her DNA was under his nails, that his DNA was under her nails.

00:19:27.340 On the first day of the trial, last Friday, the court heard from nine of the prosecution's witnesses, including Riley's roommates and several law enforcement officers with different agencies, pray for her sweet friends who have had to go through a kind of trauma that no one should ever have to experience.

00:19:45.900 And her poor parents, who are sitting there reportedly, they left before the body cam footage was played by the police officer, his body cam footage that showed what she was like when he responded to her.

00:20:01.700 Oh, my goodness.

00:20:02.440 Just so incredibly sad and just the tragedy that they are enduring.

00:20:07.960 Please pray for her family and her friends.

00:20:10.880 Um, the evidence that was presented included screenshots of her roommate's phones when they used the find my friends app to try to locate Riley when she did not come back from her run.

00:20:19.960 Her air pod they found on the ground when they went out searching for her along with her regular running route, police worn body camera footage, security camera footage, Riley's phone, which had a male, a male's thumbprint on the bottom of it and the athletic clothing Riley was wearing when she was attacked.

00:20:36.980 Uh, the prosecutor also played audio of Lake and Riley's 911 call, which occurred just moments before she was killed.

00:20:44.480 Riley doesn't actually speak on the call, but you can hear her struggling and you can hear his voice, apparently Ibarra's voice at the end of the call.

00:20:54.340 Here's stop four.

00:20:55.780 I'd like the court when listening to the call, um, right about 55 seconds, um, into the call, you're going to hear a voice.

00:21:03.640 My goodness, you can hear him right at the very end.

00:21:28.120 And this person, I mean, you're just seeing him listen to this and listen to this horrible crime.

00:21:35.380 And he is seemingly completely indifferent.

00:21:38.740 He has no expression on his face whatsoever.

00:21:42.060 His eyes look completely blank.

00:21:45.320 He's not indignant.

00:21:46.540 He's not sad.

00:21:47.800 He doesn't look remorseful.

00:21:50.280 He doesn't look shocked in any way.

00:21:52.500 And surely if you were innocent, you would be hearing these allegations and thinking how terrible this is and how you would never commit a crime like this.

00:22:00.760 And if you did commit this, maybe you would say it was heat of the moment, which of course is not an excuse that I would ever take.

00:22:09.260 But you would still think that he would be cringing in some way.

00:22:13.520 I mean, how can you listen to the violence that this young, innocent girl had to endure and not have some reaction or response?

00:22:23.220 But he didn't at all.

00:22:24.240 This photo from a journalist at the Atlanta Journal-Constitution of Lake and Riley's mother, Allison Phillips, with her face in her hands, just absolutely sobbing.

00:22:37.980 I mean, no parent should ever have to endure the death of a child.

00:22:43.320 Of course, we live in a fallen and broken world as a consequence of sin.

00:22:48.840 And so we understand that that does happen, that disordering happens.

00:22:54.940 However, to have to endure yet again, to live through the trauma that your child endured, the unjust violence that she had to suffer through, I cannot imagine.

00:23:10.560 And I can't imagine as a girl mom myself, just how absolutely devastating this would be.

00:23:19.420 I don't know how you even survive.

00:23:21.960 I don't even know how you even wake up in the morning, but for the grace of God.

00:23:26.080 So I am praying for Allison Phillips that the grace of God would fill her life and that she would somehow have the peace that passes all understanding and that somehow in a way that we don't understand, God would be glorified and she would be comforted through this.

00:23:39.540 Now, the sad thing is, is that he is, no matter what, even if he is found guilty, he is not going to get the death penalty.

00:23:50.320 And there's a reason for that.

00:23:52.800 And I will remind you of my defense of the death penalty in just a second.

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00:25:14.600 So let's talk about why Jose Ibarra will not be getting the death penalty.

00:25:21.540 And then I'll tell you why I think he should have if we lived in a just world.

00:25:27.260 So Deborah Gonzalez is the former Western Judicial Circuit District Attorney.

00:25:31.600 That includes Athens-Clarke County.

00:25:33.460 That is where Lakin Riley was murdered.

00:25:35.900 And Oconee County.

00:25:37.480 She lost her re-election bid in 2024.

00:25:41.180 Thankfully, it was largely because she was known to be progressive and soft on crime. 0.85

00:25:46.320 And so after Lakin Riley's murder and after it was announced that she would not be pursuing

00:25:51.920 the death penalty, people voted her out.

00:25:55.480 At the time of her election, she said that she was unapologetically progressive.

00:26:01.260 So this was several years ago.

00:26:03.000 She said, I think part of it is because I'm outspoken.

00:26:06.160 I'm unapologetically Democrat.

00:26:07.580 I consider myself a progressive prosecutor.

00:26:10.840 When it came to Ibarra, when she was still in office, she refused to seek the death penalty.

00:26:17.680 Her office announced that they would be seeking life without the possibility of parole.

00:26:24.020 She said that she would not allow the case to be leveraged for political gain.

00:26:28.220 Well, you didn't really have power over that, Ms. Gonzalez, did you?

00:26:31.280 Our utmost duty is to ensure that justice is served and that the victim's family is an

00:26:35.980 integral part of the deliberation process.

00:26:38.040 We understand that there will be those outside this office who will disagree with our decision

00:26:42.800 and seek to exploit this case for political gain.

00:26:46.400 However, the integrity of our judicial process and the pursuit of justice must always transcend

00:26:52.620 political considerations.

00:26:54.640 Of course, it is a political consideration not to pursue the death penalty for capital murder.

00:27:00.720 Georgia Governor Brian Kemp, he's a Republican.

00:27:03.080 He expressed doubts about her ability to handle Ibarra's case.

00:27:05.960 State Representative Houston Gaines stated, I have a real concern about her ability to handle 0.96

00:27:10.420 this case.

00:27:11.420 She's not ready to handle this case because of her progressive and soft on crime history.

00:27:18.320 Gaines added that there is an effort underway seeking alternatives to having Gonzalez handle

00:27:23.440 this case.

00:27:25.520 She ran for office on a platform, including a call to end cash bail and eliminate the death 1.00

00:27:30.520 penalty.

00:27:30.880 The end of cash bail in places like New York City have absolutely been devastating.

00:27:35.760 The recidivism rate is just insane anyway, even without the end of cash bail.

00:27:42.360 But we've seen an increase in violent crime due to the end of cash bail in large cities that

00:27:48.080 have implemented that that policy.

00:27:50.340 She has a poor prosecutorial record.

00:27:52.880 She's got a history of procedural errors. 1.00

00:27:57.520 And so she's corrupt. 0.97

00:27:58.840 She's incompetent. 1.00

00:27:59.880 She's far left.

00:28:02.080 And so that is why she did not seek the death penalty.

00:28:06.580 He probably I hope he will get life in prison without parole.

00:28:10.840 But I will remind you of my defense of the death penalty, because this actually surprises

00:28:15.640 a lot of people, even a lot of Christian conservatives.

00:28:19.320 I will remind you that our intolerance for the death penalty as a country is a modern phenomenon.

00:28:30.140 This is a change that has occurred as America has become more progressive.

00:28:36.420 And it's been billed to you by some conservatives as more of like a libertarian position that

00:28:41.900 the state shouldn't have the power to decide who lives or dies.

00:28:45.800 But it's not actually the state deciding that this is after due process and someone has

00:28:53.500 been proven guilty beyond reasonable doubts that they may get the death penalty for certain

00:29:03.580 crimes.

00:29:04.360 And I understand some procedural objections where if you say that you don't like how America

00:29:11.380 in particular implements the death penalty, and so you are against it here in the United

00:29:16.700 States because you think that it is not consistently enough applied.

00:29:23.580 It's not fairly enough applied.

00:29:26.400 But I never buy the argument that we should be against the death penalty per se or against

00:29:33.980 the death penalty in general as a principle.

00:29:38.800 And some point out that this is hypocritical, or they might say this is hypocritical if you're

00:29:43.860 pro-life.

00:29:45.000 No, it's entirely consistent.

00:29:46.880 I am against abortion for the same reason that I am for the death penalty, because I believe 1.00

00:29:51.720 in the protection of innocent life.

00:29:53.940 Because innocent life, the lives of innocent image bearers are so important and so valuable

00:30:00.220 and so precious that we should never snuff them out intentionally.

00:30:03.940 That's abortion. 1.00

00:30:05.120 And the only just and proportionate punishment for taking the life of a valuable image bearer

00:30:11.640 is execution.

00:30:13.400 And this is not my idea.

00:30:15.440 This is me agreeing with God.

00:30:17.760 The God who is love, 1 John 4, 8.

00:30:20.360 The God who created the heavens and the earth, therefore he is the authority over all of it.

00:30:25.560 And what does he say in Genesis 9, 6?

00:30:29.000 He tells Noah that the only just punishment for capital murder is the death penalty.

00:30:36.580 It is not because he is cruel.

00:30:39.160 It is not because he is merciless.

00:30:41.440 No, he gives his reason for why the death penalty is a just punishment for murder, because

00:30:47.200 man is made in God's image.

00:30:50.600 So that means because man is so valuable, because people matter so much, murdering them is a huge

00:30:59.000 deal, a big enough deal to put the person to death who did it.

00:31:04.880 That is what the God who is love says.

00:31:08.000 Now, some people will also point out, well, you know, David didn't get the death penalty

00:31:12.940 and Moses didn't get the death penalty.

00:31:15.280 Yes, there are exceptions throughout scripture where God divinely intervenes and shows mercy

00:31:22.040 to particular people for his purposes.

00:31:25.420 But if he prescribes the death penalty in Genesis 9, this is pre-Israel, pre-civilization, pre-Mosaic 0.71

00:31:33.620 law.

00:31:34.120 So this is not just a prescription for that time and that culture.

00:31:39.060 If he prescribes that, and if he says that is the just penalty because we are made in

00:31:46.260 God's image, that still applies today.

00:31:49.160 Some people also point out, well, Jesus said that we should turn the other cheek.

00:31:56.820 Romans says that we shouldn't seek vengeance because vengeance is God's.

00:32:02.360 That's talking about interpersonal relationships.

00:32:05.560 That is not talking about the state's responsibility to execute justice.

00:32:09.580 And by the way, all of God's words are Jesus's words too, because Jesus is God.

00:32:15.920 Romans 13 says that the role of the government, which has been instituted by God, is to execute

00:32:23.040 justice, is to reward good and punish evil, and that the state does not bear the sword in

00:32:29.360 vain.

00:32:30.580 The sword is a symbol of execution, not just general justice.

00:32:34.780 And by the way, if your logic is that, well, Jesus says that we should turn the other cheek,

00:32:39.340 Jesus says that we should forgive, and so we shouldn't support the death penalty.

00:32:45.340 But by your logic, that means we shouldn't dole out any punishments for any crime.

00:32:50.180 That means that we also shouldn't put them in jail because we're called to forgive and

00:32:53.380 turn the other cheek.

00:32:54.040 That means we also shouldn't fine people.

00:32:57.760 There shouldn't be any consequences whatsoever for breaking the law according to your logic.

00:33:04.060 The only logical position is that Jesus wasn't talking about the role of the state and the

00:33:10.080 role of the law there.

00:33:11.900 That we serve a God of order.

00:33:13.700 We serve a God of justice.

00:33:15.000 We serve a God who hates evil and loves people, who understood from the very beginning that

00:33:21.120 we need order, we need parameters, we need definitions, and we need laws to survive and

00:33:27.100 to thrive.

00:33:27.580 That is because God believes in protecting the most vulnerable, protecting the innocent.

00:33:35.500 And so Ibarra not getting the death penalty is a dereliction of the duty of the state.

00:33:44.880 I think that the death penalty should be used consistently across the board when it comes to crimes like

00:33:53.520 premeditated murder, I also think sex trafficking, I think rape should also qualify as that.

00:34:02.120 It can't constitutionally.

00:34:03.780 The Supreme Court has ruled on that for now.

00:34:06.820 But I think that it would absolutely disincentivize crimes like this.

00:34:13.440 I don't just want this person to be deported so he can sneak back in and do this again.

00:34:18.100 I think that he should be executed for this if he is proven guilty.

00:34:23.260 That is justice according to the God who is justice.

00:34:29.200 And as for the argument also that while we should give people as much time as possible to be

00:34:35.460 redeemed and to be saved, yes, everyone can be redeemed.

00:34:40.620 Of course, God can reach anyone, but God doesn't need like extra time.

00:34:46.240 He exists outside of time and he is going to save whom he wants to save when he wants to

00:34:54.060 save them.

00:34:54.720 It's not like God needs to be given room.

00:34:57.520 God is completely sovereign.

00:34:59.060 He is all powerful.

00:35:00.260 He does not expect us to curtail earthly justice so he can get his job done.

00:35:05.340 He doesn't need us to do that.

00:35:06.920 What he needs us to do is do the best job we possibly can to protect the most vulnerable.

00:35:11.840 And that means punishing those who hurt the most vulnerable in a way that is proportionate.

00:35:17.240 In this case, death penalty is is proportionate.

00:35:20.860 So also, as we mentioned earlier, this is a bench trial.

00:35:25.020 So he waived his right to a jury trial, meaning that a judge will determine his fate, not the

00:35:31.020 jury.

00:35:31.640 He may have waived his right to a jury trial as a strategic decision to avoid the jury potentially

00:35:36.920 being swayed by media coverage, public opinion and the emotional nature of the case.

00:35:41.060 According to CNN legal analyst Joey Jackson, defendants opt for bench trials in some cases

00:35:46.180 because a judge is perceived to be able to dismiss negative publicity and press coverage

00:35:51.600 and handle the facts of violent crimes with less emotion than a jury.

00:35:56.360 A bench trial would also avoid any issue regarding an appeal by removing any claim the defendant

00:36:03.000 might have regarding the propriety of venue change or tainted jury pool.

00:36:08.180 And so it's actually kind of also a risk for Ibarra in this case.

00:36:14.200 I talked to a local family member.

00:36:15.940 I just kind of wanted to get her perspective on what her community and what her friends

00:36:20.400 are saying.

00:36:20.920 This is a pretty small, tight knit community.

00:36:23.240 And here's what she said.

00:36:24.720 She said, I'd say everyone here just wants justice immediately.

00:36:27.580 We are all invested in this and feel like it hit us personally.

00:36:30.780 I had college girls in my Bible study group that had connections to her.

00:36:34.120 I remember when it happened, they canceled everything that night, had prayer groups on

00:36:38.260 campus, at our church and other churches.

00:36:40.660 They were scared to go out, devastated for the loss, especially since they knew people

00:36:45.120 who knew her.

00:36:46.000 I feel sure he asked for a bench trial because there's no way he could get a neutral jury here.

00:36:50.640 I'd say this case is one of the main reasons Debra Gonzalez was voted out so easily this 1.00

00:36:55.520 time.

00:36:56.100 She's also the reason the death penalty is off the table. 1.00

00:36:58.600 It's especially close since as a former UGA student, I did many things alone and in groups

00:37:03.700 at the intramural fields.

00:37:05.920 Feels like we have been very violated in a space that should feel safe and relaxing.

00:37:14.840 We'll see what happens.

00:37:17.140 We'll see what happens with this.

00:37:18.680 We're hoping that he is sentenced to life without parole since that's the maximum punishment

00:37:24.380 here.

00:37:24.880 A little bit about the judge, Superior Court Judge H. Patrick Haggard.

00:37:30.360 He alone will determine this verdict as we've already said.

00:37:33.840 He was appointed to the Superior Court bench in 2011 by Republican Governor Nathan Deal.

00:37:39.820 He's had a lot of high profile cases.

00:37:43.480 Judge H. Patrick Haggard has openly discussed his awareness of racial disparities in the justice

00:37:49.500 system.

00:37:49.880 It shouldn't say awareness, but his belief in racial disparities in the justice system.

00:37:55.440 He mentioned that sentencing decisions often reflect systemic biases and express a personal

00:38:01.200 shift in how he approaches cases involving prior offenses.

00:38:04.920 He acknowledges or he believes that there is complexity.

00:38:09.060 He stated this.

00:38:09.980 Once when I heard someone had 20 priors, that was all I needed to hear.

00:38:13.880 But now I consider factors like when those past offenses occurred and how serious they

00:38:19.900 were.

00:38:21.280 I mean, I don't think it's wrong to consider when past offenses occurred and how serious

00:38:26.100 they were.

00:38:26.740 But my concern is with him believing that there are systemic racial biases in our justice system

00:38:34.380 without providing the evidence of that.

00:38:36.200 That disparities don't prove discrimination.

00:38:38.900 And so I just hope that he is truly objective here, that he is impartial, that he is not considering

00:38:45.560 this man just because he is non-white or an illegal immigrant on the side of the oppressed, that 0.83

00:38:51.760 he doesn't go easy on him because of that.

00:38:54.340 This guy deserves maximum punishment.

00:38:56.780 Unfortunately, because they are not seeking the death penalty, our tax dollars are going to

00:39:02.200 continue to pay for this person.

00:39:04.160 I wish that he could be deported to Venezuela and then be imprisoned there, or maybe they 1.00

00:39:11.940 would seek the death penalty there.

00:39:13.820 But unfortunately, he's going to stay on American soil and at least he will be behind bars.

00:39:20.000 But I just hope that illegal immigrants, especially those who are inclined towards violence, which 1.00

00:39:26.100 unfortunately, there are just too many stories like this.

00:39:29.060 I hope that they take note that this is a new era, that people's tolerance for this and

00:39:36.400 for illegal immigration in general is extremely low, lower than it has been in decades.

00:39:42.940 And we have elected someone who has also put someone in place who has very little tolerance

00:39:51.320 for this.

00:39:52.040 Tom Homan is going to be Trump's border czar.

00:39:56.140 He was a former acting ICE director and he is a hardliner when it comes to immigration.

00:40:02.460 Here's top five.

00:40:03.580 This was preventable.

00:40:05.360 This administration came in and unsecured the most secure border we have on purpose.

00:40:11.620 This person was not only released into the United States, he was given a free airline ticket to the

00:40:16.380 city of his choice.

00:40:17.540 He was given free lodging.

00:40:18.820 He was given free food.

00:40:19.760 Right now, his attorney is being paid by the United States taxpayers.

00:40:24.160 They didn't have to do this.

00:40:25.220 We had the most secure border in my lifetime.

00:40:27.260 When President Trump had illegal immigration down 90 percent, when 90 percent less people

00:40:31.640 were coming, how many young children were getting married, weren't getting married by illegal

00:40:35.900 aliens?

00:40:36.360 How many pounds of fentanyl didn't get into the country to kill a quarter million Americans?

00:40:40.180 How many women and children weren't sex trafficked because we're up 600 percent in that? 1.00

00:40:43.800 How many no inspectors didn't cross the border?

00:40:46.560 This administration came in, opened the border, all these bad things happened.

00:40:49.760 They need to be held accountable.

00:40:51.780 What they've done is borderline treasonous, in my opinion.

00:40:53.920 I mean, I'm really glad that that guy and not Kamala Harris is going to be in charge of

00:41:00.080 the border.

00:41:00.540 Kamala Harris famously said over and over that she doesn't even believe that crossing the

00:41:04.740 border illegally should be a crime.

00:41:07.640 So change is happening in a really good way.

00:41:10.660 I mean, he just laid out really well how serious the implications are of policy decisions.

00:41:19.280 Politics matter because policy matters because people matter.

00:41:22.800 Politics affects policy.

00:41:23.920 Policy affects people.

00:41:25.600 People matter.

00:41:26.540 Lake and Riley mattered.

00:41:27.940 The difference between a crime committed by an illegal alien and a crime committed by a 0.72

00:41:31.260 citizen is that every single crime committed by an illegal alien is preventable. 0.57

00:41:35.520 We already have enough criminals who are citizens.

00:41:39.460 We don't need to add more.

00:41:43.540 I have got one more thing to say about this to just, again, prepare you, immunize you as

00:41:48.840 much as I can against the upcoming onslaught of emotional manipulation and toxic empathy

00:41:56.040 that you're going to hear on this subject.

00:41:57.540 Let me pause first, tell you about our third sponsor, Seven Weeks Coffee.

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00:42:15.260 This is translated into saving over 5,000 little lives because these pregnancy centers are offering

00:42:21.780 free resources, free sonograms, free prenatals, information about the adoption process and how to

00:42:29.060 enroll in Medicaid, so many different things, education classes that they're offering.

00:42:34.120 And Seven Weeks Coffee is partnering with these organizations to save as many lives as possible.

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00:42:46.340 That's why I love it.

00:42:47.200 I can trust the quality of it, that it's going to be free of any toxicity that unfortunately is

00:42:52.180 prevalent in a lot of popular coffee brands today.

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00:43:05.880 Go to sevenweekscoffee.com, code Allie.

00:43:12.280 Something that Homan discussed also in that interview on Fox that you just listened to

00:43:16.840 is that there are more than 448,000 unaccompanied immigrant children who were transferred to HHS

00:43:25.760 custody from fiscal years 2019 to 2023.

00:43:31.200 But HHS cannot account for them now.

00:43:34.380 More than 32,000 of those failed to appear for their immigration court hearings.

00:43:40.120 And so you'll remember that when Trump was president, you heard from a lot of professing Christians

00:43:44.760 that he's putting kids in cages, that he's separating children from their parents.

00:43:50.840 That happened under the Biden administration.

00:43:53.680 That happened under the Obama administration.

00:43:56.300 Those so-called cages that were created, that were lambasted while Trump was president,

00:44:00.700 were actually built by Obama's DHS.

00:44:05.220 Obama deported more illegal immigrants than Trump did in his four years.

00:44:11.580 One term of Obama deported more illegal immigrants than Donald Trump did.

00:44:17.060 Bill Clinton was famous or infamous, depending on how you look at it, for his mass deportations.

00:44:24.600 And so Trump really, yes, he's helped secure the border, but he didn't deport any more illegal

00:44:30.840 aliens than Biden or Obama did.

00:44:34.240 And yet that's all you heard about.

00:44:35.920 And now you're hearing that he has some fascist, scary, unchrist-like plan to deport illegal aliens.

00:44:43.780 And they're not going to remind you of what Obama did, of what Bill Clinton did, of what

00:44:48.500 the Biden administration did.

00:44:50.100 They're going to get you to focus on one story that pulls on your heartstrings to make you think

00:44:55.440 that this is a draconian, white supremacist plan to try to harm vulnerable families.

00:45:05.400 And, you know, I actually don't have time.

00:45:07.880 I was going to read a whole segment from my immigration chapter, but I don't have time to

00:45:13.480 get through all of it.

00:45:14.400 But let me just tell you quickly, I'll summarize what it's going to look like.

00:45:18.580 Every chapter of my book starts in this way.

00:45:21.120 I actually tell you a heart-rending story from the left-wing perspective that at the

00:45:27.660 end of it is supposed to persuade you to the progressive position on gender or on marriage

00:45:33.760 or on immigration.

00:45:35.580 And so on immigration, I tell you a real story of a woman named Maribel Diaz.

00:45:40.280 She was deported under Trump's first presidency.

00:45:45.980 She was a mom of several children.

00:45:48.080 She was separated from her kids, and she didn't know when she was going to be reunited with

00:45:54.200 them because she entered illegally.

00:45:55.940 She built a life with them in Fairfield, Ohio.

00:45:58.300 But because she was there illegally, she was deported and separated.

00:46:02.480 And this story was originally told by USA Today.

00:46:05.520 And this is the only kind of narrative that is going to be highlighted.

00:46:09.480 And yes, we feel empathy for Maribel.

00:46:12.100 And we should.

00:46:13.220 I understand.

00:46:14.000 We can have a compassionate perspective of how terrible it would be to be separated from

00:46:19.380 your children.

00:46:19.980 And it even tempts us to think, well, maybe that consequence is a little bit too harsh.

00:46:26.100 But what the media doesn't remind you of the other side of this moral equation, that the

00:46:31.500 same illegal immigration policies that allowed Maribel to enter the United States with her 1.00

00:46:36.760 children also allow people like Jose Ibarra to come into the country and murder someone

00:46:42.620 like Lakin Riley.

00:46:45.020 These policies also allow the murder of someone like 12-year-old Jocelyn Nungarai, who was brutalized

00:46:53.780 and killed by two Venezuelan migrants in June in Texas.

00:46:56.960 They also allow for the rapes of children in places like Nantucket, where ICE's Boston office

00:47:06.280 arrested four illegal aliens who were charged with raping and sexually assaulting children.

00:47:11.920 We're talking 10-year-old children, young children.

00:47:15.560 These policies also allow for the murder of people like Kate Steinle, who was shot in the

00:47:21.440 back in San Francisco in 2015.

00:47:23.700 Her last words in her father's arms were, help me, daddy, before she breathed her last.

00:47:28.920 All of these people should still be alive.

00:47:31.440 These were preventable crimes.

00:47:33.000 This was preventable violence.

00:47:34.680 These are the stories that most of the mainstream media, progressive activists, the social justice

00:47:39.000 Christians on your timeline will not tell you. 1.00

00:47:42.100 They will only tell you the sad stories of the people who are here with their families

00:47:48.520 who are getting deported.

00:47:49.520 First of all, those people aren't going to be prioritized on the deportation list.

00:47:53.700 But they did commit a crime.

00:47:56.920 They did break the law.

00:47:59.220 They are here illegally. 1.00

00:48:01.400 And it's not my first priority to have the mom of three deported. 0.92

00:48:06.080 It's definitely my highest priority to have violent criminals deported first and to secure

00:48:13.720 the border to keep people out.

00:48:15.440 But at the end of the day, a nation's sovereignty matters.

00:48:18.800 You don't have walls and doors and locks on your doors because you hate your neighbor.

00:48:26.200 You have these things because you love your kids, because you love your family.

00:48:31.980 If you were to allow strangers into your home, unvetted, to sleep next to your children, that 1.00

00:48:38.760 would not make you a compassionate person.

00:48:40.740 That would make you a cruel parent.

00:48:44.000 And nations are like families.

00:48:45.900 Our government has a right and a responsibility to its own citizens first, period.

00:48:52.080 That is righteous and good and compassionate.

00:48:55.020 And every country has that right and responsibility.

00:48:58.360 And we can talk about our refugee and asylum policy.

00:49:01.780 Again, there is a legal way to claim asylum.

00:49:05.240 If you're truly seeking asylum, you're supposed to go to the next available country. 0.50

00:49:09.280 You're not supposed to pass by all of these other countries to get to the country that you

00:49:13.720 want to.

00:49:14.700 Economic needs are not a justification for coming to America illegally, or else every single person

00:49:23.180 on earth would have a justification for coming to America illegally.

00:49:26.600 So if you love your neighbor, you will be against the unvetted infiltration of illegal immigrants. 1.00

00:49:34.100 You can't love your neighbor and support that.

00:49:36.560 It's one or the other.

00:49:39.020 We want the gospel to go out to all people.

00:49:41.100 All people are made in the image of God.

00:49:42.880 We want good things for them.

00:49:44.840 But God created countries.

00:49:46.600 He created governments.

00:49:47.820 He created the idea of borders.

00:49:50.840 He created laws.

00:49:52.400 All these things are for our good.

00:49:54.100 He is a God of order who placed us in a garden, not in a jungle, and he wants order for us.

00:50:00.240 And the government should be an instrument of God's good order.

00:50:04.220 So continue to pray for justice in this case.

00:50:07.120 And thank God for President Trump.

00:50:09.740 And may we see good changes.

00:50:11.460 And may there be fewer Lake and Rileys because of those changes.

00:50:16.320 All right.

00:50:16.800 Now we are going to talk to Dr. Albert Moeller.

00:50:20.500 He has been a guest several times before, and we so appreciate him, his podcast, The Briefing.

00:50:27.400 And he is also the head of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary.

00:50:32.500 And he is here today to talk about Trump's HHS appointment, RFK Jr., as well as just looking to the future of the Trump administration and how we as Christians navigate this, as well as his new Advent devotional that is out now.

00:50:47.940 Without further ado, here is Dr. Moeller.

00:50:53.740 Dr. Moeller, thanks so much for joining us again this time in person.

00:50:57.120 I appreciate it.

00:50:58.120 Allie, Beth, it's a great honor to be here with you.

00:50:59.860 Thank you.

00:51:00.220 Yes.

00:51:01.000 Well, I've been listening to The Briefing, as I do, every week.

00:51:04.600 And you've raised some concerns about President Trump's recent appointments.

00:51:10.940 And, of course, we both share the celebration that Kamala Harris did not win the presidency.

00:51:16.560 There's a lot to be happy about.

00:51:18.200 A lot to be happy about.

00:51:19.380 But can you express some of your concerns, especially when it comes to, say, a pro-abortion guy like RFK Jr.?

00:51:27.220 Well, I think it's not only a pro-abortion guy like RFK Jr., but as you know, at the Department of Health and Human Services, that's the proposal.

00:51:34.960 And so there's just a great deal of direct supervision and policymaking.

00:51:39.920 You know, a lot of legislation is actually defined as assigning the secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services to determine this particular issue.

00:51:48.640 So it's an enormously powerful policy position on issues that relate to life and certainly across the board there.

00:51:57.400 So with RFK Jr., I like the fact he's such a disruptor.

00:52:01.460 I like that.

00:52:02.360 I can see why President-elect Trump saw great promise in that.

00:52:06.780 I also think there's just the political reality for a Donald Trump of having a member of the Kennedy family defect from the tribe and stand with him.

00:52:17.440 So I don't underestimate the power of that.

00:52:19.620 I also think that Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has been helpfully disruptive in some ways.

00:52:24.380 But when it comes to the issue of abortion, you know, he's at least at times indicated absolute support for a woman's right to abortion, as he construes it, and to control her own reproductive health all the way up until the moment of birth.

00:52:39.260 Now, he's also said some other things.

00:52:40.840 So, Allie Beth, I remember back in the 1980s when Ronald Reagan accepted the Republican presidential nomination, he chose as his vice president George H.W. Bush.

00:52:54.140 George H.W. Bush, who had later become president, was in a very pro-choice, if not pro-abortion position the night before he became Ronald Reagan's running mate.

00:53:04.180 When he became Ronald Reagan's running mate, he articulated his commitment to a pro-life position.

00:53:09.560 And I would have to say, mostly over the course of the last, the next 12 years, he actually acted consistently with that.

00:53:16.860 So I think what we should demand is an on-the-record statement from the Secretary of Health and Human Services designee, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., of a pro-life position.

00:53:30.380 And then we should expect him to work out of that and to be consistent with that.

00:53:35.260 I don't think that's too much to ask.

00:53:36.740 I don't think there's too much to ask of Kennedy.

00:53:39.200 I don't think it's too much to ask of President Trump.

00:53:42.140 And we can simultaneously acknowledge that this is quite the upgrade from Xavier Becerra.

00:53:48.180 Of course, he was Attorney General of California, rabidly pro-abortion.

00:53:52.220 He helped the prosecution of the pro-life journalist David Daleiden, helped Kamala Harris carry her legacy of punishing pro-life pregnancy centers.

00:54:00.920 And then the assistant secretary of health and human services is a guy named, gosh, what's his last name?

00:54:09.780 I know that he, well, he identifies or he thinks that he is the opposite sex, Richard.

00:54:15.240 I can't, I can't even think of his last name right now.

00:54:17.500 I think he goes by Rachel Levine.

00:54:20.100 That's right.

00:54:20.860 And so we have a major upgrade, Justin, that we have someone who at least acknowledges biological facts about the human body.

00:54:28.220 That's right.

00:54:28.780 But stop short when it comes to the facts of the value of human life inside the womb.

00:54:33.660 And as you articulated, which I don't think a lot of people understand, the HHS and the guy who runs the HHS helps direct abortion policy, especially if there are executive orders like President Trump, for example.

00:54:49.240 He issued an executive order that past presidents have about the Mexico City policy, no international funding of abortion.

00:54:57.120 And because we've had conflicting statements from RFK, he told Sage Steele on her podcast several months ago that he believes in a woman's right to choose through all nine months.

00:55:06.560 He told Ben Shapiro that, well, actually, I believe in some restrictions after the first three months.

00:55:13.120 Because he was campaigning, we don't really know where he stands.

00:55:17.360 And so it's just, it's hard to say where he is going to end up.

00:55:22.160 And that's why we should be concerned, even while acknowledging this is an upgrade.

00:55:25.780 You know, Allie, Beth, I've been in this context for a long time.

00:55:30.280 And as a Christian, what I would want is someone with the right convictions in his or her heart and then to follow that through with right action.

00:55:38.960 But in the political process, I will settle for right action.

00:55:42.360 I will settle for a correction, just as you indicated, from the Becerra HHS to the Kennedy HHS following consistent pro-life policies.

00:55:51.780 I'm going to count this as a win if we can get that articulation and if that will be followed through with action.

00:55:57.700 And frankly, in that sense, Robert Kennedy Jr. can become something of a hero.

00:56:02.220 He has that opportunity.

00:56:03.660 And I hope the president-elect kind of makes clear he pushes him in that direction.

00:56:09.540 That would be a great win.

00:56:10.920 Yeah, I think so, too.

00:56:12.180 And RFK has kind of parroted the line that we even hear from some professing Christians that, while the law really has no place in the abortion debate, let's just make America healthier, a better place to live.

00:56:24.300 Which, of course, I want America to be healthier and a better place to live.

00:56:27.380 I want people to want to have babies, of course.

00:56:30.120 Abortion, unthinkable, all of that.

00:56:31.920 But if these babies are image bearers of God, if they are people, then they deserve legal rights, too.

00:56:37.640 Well, they do.

00:56:38.160 And every single government defines a human person in some way, by some definition.

00:56:43.800 Someone gets to show up in court.

00:56:45.100 Someone gets conscripted into the army.

00:56:46.780 Someone can sue someone else. 0.54

00:56:48.380 Exactly.

00:56:48.800 A person is a very important legal definition.

00:56:52.100 Yep, that's exactly right.

00:56:54.000 What are your thoughts as we are entering into this new era?

00:56:58.260 We've already seen kind of conflicting reactions to the Trump victory, even among those that we might call conservative evangelicals, some telling people to temper their celebrations, others reminding us truthfully that Trump is not our savior and that we don't trust in the government.

00:57:15.120 But how happy should we be?

00:57:18.300 What does it look like to kind of claim this victory cautiously, optimistically?

00:57:24.020 Well, I'm pretty openly and perhaps with less caution, optimistic and thankful that Kamala Harris is not the president-elect of the United States.

00:57:33.940 I think that prospect was even more ominous than many conservative Christians had recognized or articulated.

00:57:40.140 You gave some really good warnings about that.

00:57:42.280 And frankly, I think the American people sensed that.

00:57:46.360 But that means I'm just very, very happy we're not looking at the prospect of a Kamala Harris administration.

00:57:51.900 I am happy that we are looking at the opportunity for an enormous across-the-board political disruption.

00:57:59.020 I want that to be a strategic disruption.

00:58:01.460 And I don't want it to be a four-year disruption.

00:58:03.900 I want it to be a lasting disruption.

00:58:06.600 You know, as a conservative, I'm thankful whenever we get to hold ground and not lose it.

00:58:12.680 And yet I don't think just holding ground for four years is our greatest hope.

00:58:17.840 We're hoping to hold ground for a lot longer than that.

00:58:20.480 But President Trump has and deserves an awful lot of deference.

00:58:24.360 He has the authority to name his cabinet.

00:58:26.420 And, you know, the cabinet is going to look like the way he thinks.

00:58:29.360 And I think that's what we see.

00:58:30.540 This is the way he thinks.

00:58:31.640 He sees something in Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

00:58:34.240 He sees something in so many other people.

00:58:37.380 And he says, I'm going to put that person in that role precisely because that's going to be a very significant disruption from everything that comes before.

00:58:45.340 I admire that part.

00:58:46.580 I just think we have to have a baseline of qualification for those persons.

00:58:51.100 And we as Christians, we can't just become cheerleaders for a regime.

00:58:56.920 We have to keep our arguments straight and consistent.

00:59:00.060 Last sponsor for the day is Preborn.

00:59:07.300 So we've been talking about the importance of Christians, even as Trump is in office, to continue to fight for the dignity of unborn children, continue to fight for the policies that protect the most vulnerable.

00:59:19.540 And Preborn is this large network of clinics that is on the front lines trying to save these babies and to love and serve their parents.

00:59:29.400 They offer things like free ultrasounds, all kinds of resources to help these moms and babies in need.

00:59:34.900 They want to do everything possible to persuade these moms to choose life. 1.00

00:59:39.620 And you can be a part of that.

00:59:40.800 You can partner with Preborn by donating whatever you can.

00:59:45.000 $28 covers the cost of one ultrasound appointment, one ultrasound session.

00:59:51.100 And so if you go to preborn.com slash Allie, maybe $28 is what you can do.

00:59:55.480 Or maybe you can donate $15,000.

00:59:58.760 $15,000 would help them cover the cost of an entire ultrasound machine, which would save countless lives.

01:00:05.300 Women are so much more likely to choose life when they can see and hear their baby. 1.00

01:00:09.200 Go to preborn.com slash Allie, donate whatever you can today.

01:00:12.700 That's preborn.com slash Allie. 0.81

01:00:18.760 How do you think the church is doing when it comes to clarity on the biggest issues at stake?

01:00:25.180 We're talking about the Genesis 1 issues.

01:00:27.180 When it comes to abortion, when it comes to gender, we saw plenty of pastors courageously speak out about these things,

01:00:34.000 not just in the context of the election, but in general,

01:00:36.400 because these are things that Christians have always cared about, will always care about.

01:00:41.060 Do you think the church is heading in more of a direction of courage and clarity as a whole?

01:00:47.460 Well, Yvette, that's a brilliant question, and I want to answer it honestly by saying yes, no, and maybe.

01:00:52.400 And so what I think we're seeing is a further sorting of churches and a sorting of denominations, but churches in particular,

01:01:00.360 where I think you've got pastors who understand that responsibility,

01:01:04.200 and I think most of them understand it more deeply, more urgently, more passionately,

01:01:08.340 and perhaps even more intelligently and more wise in terms of how they are applying these things.

01:01:14.780 I think you have others that are moving more and more.

01:01:17.380 I think we always see congregations and some leaders moving into kind of a mushy middle in order to kind of move further out later.

01:01:26.580 And so I think we're seeing that.

01:01:29.220 And, you know, I think the 2024 election in the lead up to it turns out to be a pretty significant cat scan of evangelicalism.

01:01:35.720 Yeah, I think so.

01:01:37.580 I think so, too.

01:01:38.820 And I'm just hoping, because I remember the first four years of Trump's presidency,

01:01:43.500 there was a lot of division, a lot of contention during those years just about President Trump

01:01:51.240 and whether he represented white supremacy, whether those who voted for him really believe in biblical justice,

01:01:58.620 and so many debates surrounding that.

01:02:01.260 And I'm wondering if it will be the same this time.

01:02:04.160 And he was almost like hating Donald Trump almost became, within and outside of the church,

01:02:09.400 a virtue signal to show, you know, my hope is in heaven, my citizenship is in heaven,

01:02:15.460 and I don't care about, you know, the petty things going on in this world.

01:02:20.660 And I think it caused a lot of confusion and unnecessary dissension.

01:02:25.560 Allie, Beth, I'm not certain how honest some of that is, or to put it, I guess, more honestly, in my own words,

01:02:31.440 I think a lot of that's dishonest, and a lot of it's posing, and a lot of it's absolutely predictable.

01:02:36.940 They're the same people who said the same things four years ago or six years ago.

01:02:40.960 They're going to say it again.

01:02:42.860 And honestly, you know, I voted for Donald Trump.

01:02:47.740 Millions and millions of evangelical Christians voted for Donald Trump.

01:02:50.460 We were also voting against Kamala Harris.

01:02:52.620 The idea that if you voted for someone, you have bought everything they do and everything they say

01:02:58.180 and everything they represent is simply ridiculous.

01:03:01.520 But at the same time, we need to be very clear.

01:03:04.960 There are those who actually don't want to see the disruption that Donald Trump's going to bring.

01:03:10.220 They don't want to see a tightening of issues.

01:03:13.180 They don't want to see some of the hard decisions made.

01:03:15.700 And so I think we need to buckle our seatbelts.

01:03:17.560 I think the kind of evangelical opposition that we saw during the first Trump administration,

01:03:24.040 I think it's going to be amplified many times over in the next four years.

01:03:28.280 And this is a little bit of a random question that I just thought about

01:03:31.620 because I was listening to your episode of The Briefing this morning.

01:03:34.800 When it comes to foreign policy specifically and President Trump,

01:03:38.260 maybe this is not something that people had top of mind necessarily when they were voting.

01:03:43.180 And yet, of course, it is an important issue.

01:03:45.800 When we're looking at something like Russia and Ukraine,

01:03:49.360 what do you anticipate may be the change there from Biden's policy to Trump's policy?

01:03:55.400 I think one change will be from dishonesty to honesty.

01:03:58.420 I mean, you still have the claims being made that we're going to support Ukraine until it regains all of its territory. 0.52

01:04:03.400 Well, that would include the Crimean Peninsula lost years ago.

01:04:07.140 The American people are not going to support American troops on the ground.

01:04:10.580 America going to war with Russia over Ukraine.

01:04:13.100 That doesn't mean that there's not a lot at stake in Ukraine and that we should stand with the Ukrainians.

01:04:18.320 But it's going to be a very honest, I think, change with Donald Trump because he's going to walk in and he's going to say,

01:04:24.360 we need to define exactly what the best settlement will look like for Ukraine.

01:04:28.720 And we can't just look to Ukraine to bleed out over the course of the next several years the way it has for the last 1,000 days. 0.95

01:04:37.940 And so I think President Trump just cuts through the old foreign policy establishment.

01:04:43.960 And frankly, a lot of the posturing that takes place in Western world leaders, I think they know it's coming.

01:04:50.600 And I think they're bracing themselves for it.

01:04:52.660 I don't think, by the way, all the people in Ukraine fear it.

01:04:56.800 I think some of them are looking for a definition that's honest.

01:05:01.900 They've been languishing for a long time.

01:05:03.720 As you said, 1,000 days.

01:05:05.180 Wow.

01:05:06.020 Well, I have a lot to look forward to.

01:05:07.880 I'm excited about a lot when it comes to the Trump presidency.

01:05:10.940 Even with someone like RFK, who obviously I vehemently disagree with when it comes to abortion, I do appreciate his desire to root out corruption.

01:05:23.500 And I do think much of the medical establishment in the United States, unfortunately, is corrupted.

01:05:28.980 We saw a lot of that during COVID.

01:05:30.780 You talked about going from dishonesty to honesty in foreign policy.

01:05:34.360 I hope that's also true when it comes to medical and health policy in the United States.

01:05:38.720 I have a couple of rays of hope there.

01:05:40.980 One of them is someone like RFK Jr. as Secretary of Health and Human Services.

01:05:45.800 That would be a very good thing.

01:05:47.380 I think he will press hard on this.

01:05:50.280 The other thing is that Senator Rand Paul of my own home state of Kentucky is now in a position as chair of a Senate committee to press the investigation into COVID.

01:06:00.900 He's already written a book on it.

01:06:02.100 He is a medical doctor himself.

01:06:04.020 Yes.

01:06:04.380 I think he's going to press for an awful lot of answers, and I look forward to that process.

01:06:08.720 Yes.

01:06:09.440 And government efficiency, that department too.

01:06:12.360 I am hopeful about that.

01:06:14.080 I've even seen some bipartisan support of it.

01:06:16.100 So there's a lot to look forward to.

01:06:17.720 And as always, Christians are called to clarity and courage, especially on those-

01:06:22.140 And discernment.

01:06:22.960 Yes.

01:06:23.440 And discernment on those creation order issues, especially.

01:06:26.840 Absolutely.

01:06:27.160 We will have to exist as an anchor in this new coalition that includes lifelong Democrats like Tulsi Gabbard and RFK.

01:06:34.800 Our job is to use the power of persuasion to push them over to our side.

01:06:38.880 May I offer just one final thing there?

01:06:40.080 Please.

01:06:40.260 Isn't it interesting that even in today's national newspapers and the national news coverage, there's still a lingering question about the election as to why men and women responded differently in many ways.

01:06:54.480 So you talk about creation order.

01:06:56.320 Boy, it comes out in a big way on the front page of the paper when they talk about the need, for instance, of Democrats to get some additional male votes in the future.

01:07:03.540 So all of a sudden, when they're counting voters, they are reminded of the difference between male and female.

01:07:08.240 Interesting.

01:07:09.140 Yep.

01:07:09.400 They definitely knew that during the campaign because abortion wasn't just a person's right. 0.99

01:07:15.320 It was specifically a woman's right. 0.53

01:07:18.140 And so, yes, they remember the biological binary when it suits them, for sure.

01:07:22.200 Or a pregnant person. 0.98

01:07:23.000 Yes.

01:07:23.600 Yes.

01:07:24.100 They dropped off.

01:07:24.860 Kamala dropped all that language during her campaign because she knows how unpopular it is. 1.00

01:07:30.500 Yep.

01:07:30.600 Well, we are even more excited, not about just the coming of Donald Trump, but the advent of Jesus Christ for Christmas.

01:07:39.860 And you've written a recent book about the advent.

01:07:42.100 Can you tell us about it?

01:07:43.740 Yeah.

01:07:43.960 It's entitled Recapturing the Glory of Christ at Christmas.

01:07:48.740 And it's about recapturing the glory.

01:07:50.860 Remember, you know, the biblical text tells us we beheld his glory.

01:07:55.120 Glory is of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

01:07:58.220 That passage from John is so special to me.

01:08:01.220 We beheld his glory.

01:08:02.380 It's the glory of Christmas.

01:08:03.460 The glory of Christmas is not friendship or generosity or gift giving.

01:08:07.860 Those are all sweet things, a part of our celebration.

01:08:10.740 The glory of Christmas is the glory of Christ.

01:08:12.820 This is the glory of the word through whom the worlds were made, who now comes into the world.

01:08:18.520 And, you know, we as believers behold his glory.

01:08:22.260 And I wrote this book trying to help Christians and Christian families in a 25-day process of devotions to recapture that glory and keep the centrality of Christ at the very heart of our celebration.

01:08:34.880 Yes, and this is a devotional that they can do with their families, or is it better done individually?

01:08:40.600 It can be done either way.

01:08:41.840 You know, the idea of doing it this way was the publisher pointing out that there were so many Christians and Christian families who wanted a structured way, kind of a bite-size theological and biblical lesson for a day leading up to Christmas.

01:08:58.000 And the more I thought about it, I thought, you know, that's really fruitful.

01:09:00.800 And so I wrote the material in that way, following that structure.

01:09:04.880 Absolutely.

01:09:05.480 Well, I get questions all the time asking me for recommendations on an Advent devotional and what we're doing.

01:09:11.580 And we do a different one every year.

01:09:13.400 So we're going to do this one this year.

01:09:15.080 And we're so excited.

01:09:16.500 And I know it's going to benefit our whole family.

01:09:18.860 And it's out now.

01:09:20.180 Yeah.

01:09:20.840 And wherever books are sold.

01:09:22.620 It is.

01:09:23.460 And I'm thankful to say it is sold very well.

01:09:26.960 Awesome.

01:09:27.580 And it is in an additional printing, which is now available.

01:09:30.480 So it should be available at all the normal booksellers.

01:09:33.660 And for that, I'm very thankful.

01:09:34.820 Okay.

01:09:35.080 Awesome.

01:09:35.460 So everyone needs to go out and get recapturing the glory of Christmas.

01:09:40.060 This is the Devo that the Stuckey family will be doing this year.

01:09:43.460 Dr.

01:09:43.740 Moeller, thank you so much for taking the time to be on.

01:09:46.420 Excuse me.

01:09:47.000 But Allie Beth, I'm so thankful for you and your work and your voice.

01:09:51.120 Keep it going and Merry Christmas.

01:09:52.740 Thank you.

01:09:53.180 Likewise.

01:09:53.420 Each time Compass.

01:09:54.500 Bye-bye.

01:09:55.180 Bye-bye.

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01:10:21.460 Bye-bye.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - November 19, 2024

Ep 1103 ｜ Laken Riley’s Murder Trial： Chilling Details & Why It Matters ｜ Guest： Dr. Albert Mohler

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