Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - November 20, 2024


Ep 1104 ｜ DEBATE： Should ‘Trans’ Congressmen Use Women’s Bathrooms？ ｜ Guest： Brad Polumbo


Episode Stats

Length

1 hour and 5 minutes

Words per Minute

166.21858

Word Count

10,943

Sentence Count

739

Misogynist Sentences

85

Hate Speech Sentences

51


Summary

Jose Ibarra has been found guilty on all 10 counts in the murder of nursing student Laken Riley and sentenced to life in prison without possibility of parole. In addition, Laken's killer has been sentenced to 10 years in prison.


Transcript

00:00:00.880 Nancy Mace is fighting for women's rights to privacy and safety in Congress by trying to pass a resolution that would protect women's bathrooms and locker rooms at the Capitol in light of a recently elected man who identifies as a woman in Congress.
00:00:20.160 We will be debating the subject today with someone who is on the other side of the issue. Also, Lake and Riley's murder has been found guilty on all 10 counts and has been sentenced. We've got the details on that coming up. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to GoodRanchers.com. Use code Allie at checkout. That's GoodRanchers.com. Code Allie.
00:00:50.160 Hey, guys. Welcome to Relatable. Happy Wednesday. Hope everyone is having a great day so far. Before we get into the conversation about bathrooms in Congress, I do want to give you an update on the Lake and Riley trial. We talked about all the details yesterday, and so if you need a recap on that, make sure you watch or listen to yesterday's episode.
00:01:10.980 But today, Jose Ibarra, her murderer, the illegal immigrant and Trendy Aragua gang member, has been found guilty of murdering 22-year-old nursing student Laken Riley in Athens, Georgia. He was found guilty of all charges, and he was subsequently sentenced to life without the possibility of parole in Athens. And here is SOT 14.
00:01:37.780 Count one, malice murder, I sentence you to life without the possibility of parole. Count two will be vacated as a matter of operation of law. Count three, vacated by operation of law. Count five, life in prison.
00:02:07.780 Okay, so this is very good news. Okay, so this is very good news. We are happy to hear this. Now, obviously, as I said yesterday, I would have liked him to get the death penalty.
00:02:21.340 Unfortunately, the very progressive DA, Deborah Gonzalez, that originally charged Ibarra, did not seek the death penalty. She was voted out this last election because of the anger and frustration of many Athens and Ocone County residents, even the more progressive ones.
00:02:43.580 So this is really the best that we can get. I've seen some people ask me, why can't he be deported and serve out his life sentence in Venezuela?
00:02:53.760 And that's because there's just no guarantee that he would actually get justice in those countries. Of course, that's just not how the whole legal system works. That's not how it's set up. But also, even if it did work that way, we wouldn't necessarily want that because he would probably find his way back into the United States.
00:03:14.300 This is really the only way that we can guarantee that he is not going to inflict violence on someone else.
00:03:22.640 Now, this isn't really justice. Yes, the community is protected from further harm from this person, but it's not really just because God is the only one who created and therefore can define justice.
00:03:38.920 And Genesis 9-6 says that the death penalty is the only just and proportionate punishment for capital murder.
00:03:46.980 And so this is less than justice. And so this is less than justice. And actually, this is like a pretty good deal for him going from what I'm sure was poverty and violence in Venezuela to coming to the United States, living in New York, getting a free taxpayer funded flight to Georgia, and then prowling around Athens, the college town to seek a young woman to rape.
00:04:12.520 Finding this young woman who fought back for 18 minutes of her life, according to her Garmin watch before she was brutally murdered.
00:04:22.960 And so now he's going into prison, which is kind of an upgrade. It's kind of an upgrade from the past that he's had, especially in an American prison.
00:04:33.080 And so this is not really justice. But I do pray for Lake and Riley's family.
00:04:40.440 I pray that they would have peace. I pray that they would find comfort in Christ.
00:04:45.800 And although we would never have wanted this ourselves, we would never want someone like Lakin to be like the sacrificial lamb that is then used to change policy.
00:04:58.620 We wish that our representatives would have just put in good policy that would have secured the border and would have deported him and punished him for his crimes a long time ago.
00:05:08.920 So I do hope that God in his mercy uses this to enact the change that we need that will prevent more Lake and Riley's.
00:05:17.420 And I just found myself this morning as I was driving in, because the story has just haunted me as someone who used to live in Athens, who has family in Athens, who knows that community.
00:05:26.160 I just felt over and over again, the thought of I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry, Lakin, that our country failed you, that the people who are tasked to protect us failed you.
00:05:43.820 I'm so sorry that you fought for 17 minutes while no one came to your aid.
00:05:53.320 I'm so sorry that you had to fight for the last remnants of your dignity before you were brutally murdered.
00:06:01.780 I'm so sorry that you have had to become a symbol for the dangers of illegal immigration instead of becoming a nurse.
00:06:10.040 Like, I'm so sorry to your parents. I'm so sorry to your friends. I'm so sorry to this community.
00:06:16.140 And even though we don't hold personal responsibility, there is this just kind of collective burden that we all carry to our to care for our fellow citizens.
00:06:27.860 Countries are like families. And we should feel indignant when a fellow citizen unnecessarily loses her life because of a preventable crime committed by an illegal alien.
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00:07:54.000 Donald Trump said this on Truth Social.
00:07:57.560 He said, Justice for Lakin Riley, the illegal who killed our beloved Lakin Riley, was just found guilty on all counts for his horrific crimes.
00:08:04.580 Although the pain and heartbreak will last forever, hopefully this can help bring some peace and closure to her wonderful family who fought for justice and to ensure that other families won't have to go through what they have.
00:08:15.060 We love you, Lakin, and our hearts will always be with you.
00:08:18.620 It is time to secure our border and remove these criminals and thugs from our country so nothing like this can happen again.
00:08:26.380 Yes and amen.
00:08:28.240 That is righteous policy.
00:08:30.200 That is compassionate policy.
00:08:31.860 That is mercy.
00:08:34.020 That is the responsibility of our government to care for our own people, for the sake of our sovereignty, for the sake of our citizens.
00:08:44.040 That's what has to be done.
00:08:45.400 And I am just so thankful that not only Donald Trump, but his newly appointed border czar, who will be the border czar, Tom Homan and Stephen Miller and so many others that he's already named in his administration are border hawks.
00:09:00.240 They really care about border security and border patrol.
00:09:04.580 The morale is up like never before, and that is a good thing.
00:09:09.600 We especially want violent criminals who are here illegally to not only be deported, but also to be severely disincentivized to ever try to cross the border again.
00:09:23.200 And I just think about how sad this is that Lincoln Riley was not visited by the president.
00:09:30.420 Like you'll remember, do you remember Jacob Blake, the man who was shot in the back by a police officer several years ago?
00:09:38.540 He ended up, I believe, being paralyzed from the waist down because of this.
00:09:42.700 But why was he shot in the back?
00:09:44.360 Because he violated a restraining order and his girlfriend called the cops on him because he had sexually assaulted her in front of his children just days prior to this.
00:09:58.080 And yet he was there and he reached into his car for a knife.
00:10:02.440 And when he reached into his car for a knife, the police shot him, not only for their own safety, which they have the right to do,
00:10:09.840 but for the safety of the vulnerable people that he was potentially about to attack.
00:10:15.560 And Kamala Harris went and visited him in the hospital and lionized him.
00:10:21.320 It was the same thing with George Floyd, the Democrats honoring him, almost venerating him as a saint.
00:10:29.680 And that's not to say that someone should be happy about the circumstances surrounding his death.
00:10:35.740 He was also an image bearer of God.
00:10:38.480 But when we look at the people whom progressives admire and hoist up as heroes and memorialize
00:10:50.380 and take the time to publicly sympathize with versus the ones that they ignore, it tells you a lot about their ideology.
00:11:01.540 Now, all people, of course, Lake and Riley or George Floyd are all made in the image of God.
00:11:06.980 But here, like, we've got a very innocent young woman who was violently murdered.
00:11:16.420 And most people on the left cannot muster any compassion.
00:11:20.180 We certainly don't see corporate America and global movements being mobilized on her behalf.
00:11:27.040 We don't see streets being renamed in her honor.
00:11:31.580 I certainly don't see conservative or rather social justice evangelicals telling us that riots are the voice of the unheard on her behalf or posting black squares for her.
00:11:46.380 And so this kind of lopsided compassion and outrage, I think, is very ugly and actually misdirected outrage in some cases is just very dangerous.
00:12:01.440 And so pay attention to who is paying attention to this Lake and Riley trial and just remember her and her name and her story and this testimony when you are confronted with the onslaught of gaslighting and propaganda in the coming months when the deportations start.
00:12:22.800 Remember Lake and Riley, remember Molly Tibbetts, remember Kate Steinle and so many others.
00:12:30.060 Pray for him, too.
00:12:31.380 Pray that he would come to know the Lord, that he would be saved because no one is too far off.
00:12:36.220 All right.
00:12:36.480 Before we get into the transgender madness that's happening in Congress, let me pause and tell you about our second sponsor.
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00:13:32.280 Okay.
00:13:33.360 Nancy Mace is rightfully raising a respectful ruckus about the bathroom situation at the Capitol
00:13:43.100 because there is now a congressperson who goes by the name of Sarah McBride, who is trans-identifying.
00:13:54.220 So this is a man who dresses up as a woman who presumably will be entering female spaces.
00:14:01.920 And Nancy Mace is saying no thank you.
00:14:05.000 She is a Republican representative from South Carolina.
00:14:09.440 I have disagreed with her on a variety of subjects.
00:14:11.840 She is certainly more liberal than I am.
00:14:14.540 And I have talked about some of the comments that she has made publicly that I just really
00:14:21.200 did not like or align with.
00:14:23.640 But I do appreciate that she is leading the charge on this.
00:14:28.160 She is unveiling a resolution that would ban so-called transgender women or men who identify
00:14:34.520 as women from using bathrooms inside the Capitol.
00:14:37.560 This, of course, drew immediate criticism from the Democratic representative, Sarah, is what he goes by, McBride.
00:14:47.020 And he is the first openly trans-identifying member of Congress.
00:14:53.320 So this is a resolution.
00:14:55.640 This is not a bill.
00:14:57.200 A resolution is a part of every new session of Congress where the House of Representatives
00:15:02.180 pass a resolution package that sets its own rules for that term.
00:15:07.000 Mace presented this House resolution, which she hopes will be included in that rules package at the beginning of the next term in January.
00:15:16.460 They're not binding law, but they express the collective sentiment of the House on a particular issue.
00:15:21.940 Resolutions will typically be considered by the committee before they are sent on to the House.
00:15:28.520 This simple resolution would only be considered by the House, would not need Senate or presidential approval.
00:15:34.480 And basically what it says is that there should be a prohibition on House members and employee from using restrooms,
00:15:42.620 changing rooms or locker rooms other than those corresponding to the biological sex of such individuals in the Capitol or in-house office buildings.
00:15:53.940 And she has taken a lot of heat for this, but she has stood firm.
00:16:01.220 Here's her explanation.
00:16:02.460 SOT 3.
00:16:05.300 Sarah McBride doesn't get a say in this.
00:16:07.180 This is a biological man trying to force himself into women's spaces, and I'm not going to tolerate.
00:16:11.220 You have the radical left that are trying to erase women and erase women's rights.
00:16:15.140 I'm the first woman to graduate from the Citadel, the Military College of South Carolina.
00:16:19.080 If some guy in a skirt came by and said, no, that's my achievement.
00:16:22.260 I'm going to be there and standing in the way and saying, hell no, I'm not going to allow men to erase women or women's rights.
00:16:29.040 And I'm going to be standing up here.
00:16:30.200 I will file this again next congressional session.
00:16:32.660 Sarah McBride doesn't get a say.
00:16:34.880 This is about women.
00:16:36.200 This is about girls.
00:16:37.340 This is about our rights and being protected in our private spaces.
00:16:41.000 She's absolutely right.
00:16:42.220 These are women's spaces, and we should have a say.
00:16:44.580 We shouldn't have to bend to the rules of men who wear a skirt, who say that they have a right to infiltrate our spaces.
00:16:53.460 I mean, these are private, sex-segregated spaces for a reason.
00:16:56.900 And in just a few minutes, I'm going to have a debate with someone named Brad Palumbo, who is on the other side of this issue.
00:17:03.040 I've had him on before, and he has been gracious with his time to debate this.
00:17:07.820 I encourage you to stick around for the whole 22-minute debate because it got increasingly heated toward the end of it.
00:17:17.640 But I actually do think that you will find it very productive as you are having hopefully less heated conversations about this subject.
00:17:26.660 So Mace was asked before this answer that you just heard if she was going after a marginalized person with her resolution.
00:17:34.300 It's so insane how a man, a white man that we are told is like at the top of the intersectional totem pole all of a sudden, or the bottom of the intersectional totem pole, I should say, is the least amount of oppression points.
00:17:50.880 He is the most privileged, according to progressive ideology, how he suddenly becomes marginalized when he puts on a skirt, wears lipstick, grows out his hair, and goes into women's spaces.
00:18:04.000 She also mentioned there that she was the first woman to graduate from the Citadel.
00:18:09.900 I have seen some conservatives say, so, oh, she infiltrated man's spaces, and now she's mad when a guy is infiltrating a woman's space.
00:18:21.620 And look, I think those are different issues.
00:18:23.840 I think that's a fine debate to have.
00:18:25.820 I think it's important to have sex-segregated spaces, both for men and for women, for a variety of reasons.
00:18:31.500 But the reasons are different.
00:18:34.220 When it comes to bathrooms and locker rooms that are meant for women, it is for our protection.
00:18:38.920 It is for our privacy.
00:18:40.300 It is for our safety.
00:18:42.340 You can make your arguments about women going to the Citadel or taking part in traditionally male activities.
00:18:50.200 I think that's a fine debate to have.
00:18:51.800 I don't think this makes her a hypocrite.
00:18:53.580 I think that is a different discussion.
00:18:56.120 So this is what McBride has said to this whole controversy.
00:18:59.380 He said, everyday Americans go to work with people who have life journeys different than their own and engage with them respectfully.
00:19:05.220 I hope members of Congress can muster that same kindness.
00:19:08.640 See, this is a perfect example of toxic empathy.
00:19:11.800 Using words like kindness or niceness or respect or dignity.
00:19:16.280 That makes it seem like if you don't believe in men going into women's bathrooms that you are unkind, that you are not showing respect and not showing dignity.
00:19:27.760 But remember, when your empathy causes you to deny reality and or morality, that empathy has become toxic.
00:19:36.860 You could feel for McBride and say, wow, if he really does feel like he's trapped in the wrong body, which I don't think is true for the majority of men who identify as women.
00:19:48.120 I think it's more of a fetish, but I don't know this person.
00:19:50.960 So maybe he really has had a lifelong struggle of feeling like he is born in the wrong body.
00:19:56.340 Maybe he is one of those very, very rare young men who struggled with true gender dysphoria and he feels liberated and free and his authentic self that still, of course, would not justify this at all.
00:20:09.460 It is still immoral and violative of women's rights.
00:20:13.180 But maybe that really is his story.
00:20:15.780 You can have empathy for that pain and say, I have never felt that way.
00:20:21.560 That would be really tough.
00:20:23.420 That would be so difficult.
00:20:24.420 Maybe he's had bad experiences in his past that has caused him to reject his masculinity or who he is as a male.
00:20:32.460 And you can have compassion for that.
00:20:35.060 But if your empathy leads you to lie, to affirm his delusions, to validate lies, to encourage sin, then your empathy has become toxic.
00:20:48.380 That's why Christians are not called primarily to empathy.
00:20:51.840 We are called to the truth in love.
00:20:54.680 God is love.
00:20:55.460 1 John 4, 8.
00:20:56.400 He gets to define it.
00:20:57.560 1 Corinthians 13, 6 says, love never rejoices in wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth.
00:21:04.000 And so that kind of love, that truth in love dichotomy is much deeper and more difficult, requires much more sacrifice, is often more unpopular than this kind of superficial toxic empathy that the world wants to tell you is loving.
00:21:18.380 But it is the righteous way.
00:21:19.380 And I do believe in this case, Nancy Mace is doing the truth in love option, which may seem harsh to the world.
00:21:28.280 But it is harsh on behalf of the victims in this case, which is not McBride.
00:21:34.340 The victims in this case are the women being forced to share a private space with a man.
00:21:38.160 So Mace had her response to McBride, who also said, by the way, I forgot this part.
00:21:45.500 He said this is a blatant attempt from far right, right wing extremists.
00:21:49.220 First of all, Nancy Mace is like center right.
00:21:52.540 She's not far right by any definition.
00:21:56.040 Far right wing extremists to distract from the fact that they have no real solutions to what Americans are facing.
00:22:01.660 Well, clearly we do because Trump just won the popular vote and the electoral vote and Republicans won the Senate and Republicans won the House.
00:22:11.260 It was actually Democrats who were unable to present any real options to the American people.
00:22:15.540 And it was this issue, the men and women's spaces that caused Democrats to lose, I think, in a lot of cases.
00:22:24.880 This was just the bridge to fire.
00:22:26.460 This is why Republicans hammered on this in the campaign, why Kamala Harris never once talked about so-called trans rights.
00:22:32.840 Well, Mace had a response to this.
00:22:34.720 Stop four.
00:22:36.020 Is this effort in response to Congresswoman McBride coming to Congress?
00:22:40.360 Yes, and absolutely.
00:22:41.660 And then some.
00:22:42.160 I'm not going to stand for a man, you know, someone with a penis is in the women's locker room.
00:22:47.800 That's not OK.
00:22:48.940 And I'm a victim of abuse myself.
00:22:51.080 I'm a rape survivor.
00:22:52.280 I have PTSD from the abuse I've suffered at the hands of a man.
00:22:55.800 And I know how vulnerable women and girls are in private spaces.
00:22:59.960 So I'm absolutely 100 percent going to stand in the way of any man who wants to be in a women's restroom, in our locker rooms, in our changing rooms.
00:23:09.740 I will be there fighting you every step of the way.
00:23:12.160 You know, I appreciate that.
00:23:14.040 And I just think that we need to share the arrows with her right now because she's going to catch a lot of heat.
00:23:20.300 She's even going to catch some heat from Republicans.
00:23:25.260 And even if she's not getting criticism from all Republicans, there will absolutely be Republicans and conservatives who are silent about this.
00:23:33.180 Even members of Congress who should have been the first ones.
00:23:36.400 I mean, it should have been men to stand up and say, no, dude, like you're not going to the women's restroom.
00:23:41.700 That's not what we're doing.
00:23:43.200 It's a woman doing that.
00:23:44.480 And at the very least, other male members of Congress should be standing up and saying, yeah, like, I gotcha.
00:23:52.160 I gotcha.
00:23:52.760 I'm right there with you.
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00:25:05.100 Okay, so Mike Johnson, he is the Speaker of the House.
00:25:13.840 He is a Republican from Louisiana.
00:25:16.240 When he was first asked about this whole debate, here's what he said.
00:25:21.060 Stop five.
00:25:23.220 Mr. Speaker, is freshman-elect Sarah McBride a man or a woman?
00:25:27.620 Look, I'm not going to get into this.
00:25:31.320 We welcome all new members with open arms who are duly elected representatives of the people.
00:25:37.360 I believe it's a command that we treat all persons with dignity and respect, and we will.
00:25:44.140 And I'm not going to engage in silly debates about this.
00:25:47.620 There's a concern about the uses of restroom facilities and locker rooms and all that.
00:25:51.480 This is an issue that Congress has never had to address before, and we're going to do that in deliberate fashion with member consensus on it.
00:26:00.040 And we will accommodate the needs of every single person.
00:26:02.720 That's all I'm going to say about that.
00:26:04.380 Boo.
00:26:05.620 Weak.
00:26:06.520 Weak.
00:26:07.360 Thankfully, he clarified a little bit, and he said something that is very true and necessary at this point in history to say.
00:26:16.040 Here's thought six.
00:26:16.740 For anybody who doesn't know my well-established record on this issue, let me be unequivocally clear.
00:26:23.000 A man is a man, and a woman is a woman, and a man cannot become a woman.
00:26:29.260 That said, I also believe, that's what scripture teaches, what I just said, but I also believe that we treat everybody with dignity.
00:26:37.420 And so we can do and believe all those things at the same time, and I wanted to make that clear for everybody because there's lots of questions.
00:26:43.940 But that's where I stand.
00:26:44.960 I've stood there my whole life, and those are facts.
00:26:48.300 Okay, so that's better.
00:26:49.980 A man is a man.
00:26:50.720 A woman is a woman.
00:26:51.580 It's not only what scripture teaches.
00:26:53.120 It is also what science teaches us.
00:26:55.600 This is true from the moment of conception.
00:26:57.620 We have these biological distinctions that also have implications societally for a reason, and it is largely for the protection of the more vulnerable sect, and that is, of course, women, and especially girls.
00:27:10.940 So I'm glad that he clarified that.
00:27:13.960 Now, I do, you know, I sympathize because I think he is in a tough position, and so he's trying to be as diplomatic and political as possible.
00:27:22.060 He is a politician.
00:27:23.200 And so he's saying probably what has to be said.
00:27:26.320 We're going to treat everyone with dignity and respect, but, of course, I want to know what exactly that means.
00:27:32.240 He said that we are going to meet the needs of everyone, but, of course, trans activists believe that you have a need to go into the bathroom that, of course, that corresponds with your so-called gender identity.
00:27:43.560 But that doesn't outweigh the need of women and girls to have their sex separate spaces.
00:27:51.580 Nancy Mace is calling herself a TERF, which stands for Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist.
00:27:59.920 And I don't refer to myself as a TERF because I'm not a radical feminist, just the T-E.
00:28:08.460 But she does identify as a feminist, I would say.
00:28:13.200 She said, this is so strange to me.
00:28:15.080 25 years ago, I was celebrated as the first woman to graduate from a formerly all-male military college.
00:28:20.880 Today, I'm being attacked as a bigot for fighting for women's rights.
00:28:24.620 The radical left has lost its mind.
00:28:29.500 Now, unfortunately, she is also, and gosh, this is just tragic and really scary.
00:28:34.740 She is receiving a lot of threats from people.
00:28:38.560 And I don't even think, like, we have this video.
00:28:41.300 I don't even think that I'm going to play it because it's just so disturbing.
00:28:45.520 And I think this person just wants more attention.
00:28:47.880 So I'm just going to say what this person in the video says.
00:28:52.960 And we can at least, like, put up her post on X.
00:28:57.460 She reposts a video that someone posted on Instagram.
00:29:01.120 This is a man who identifies as a woman who tagged Nancy Mace in his story and said this.
00:29:08.800 He said, look, I am going to grab your ratty-looking effing hair, drag your face to the floor,
00:29:16.320 repeatedly bash your head in until blood is everywhere, and kill you.
00:29:22.460 Okay, so these are the kinds of threats that she is getting from men who identify as women
00:29:27.800 who say that they have a right to come into our spaces.
00:29:30.340 Now, she's not saying, I'm not saying that that is Sarah McBride or whatever this person's
00:29:37.280 name is or what his intentions are.
00:29:40.960 This is not to say that everyone who identifies as the opposite sex is also a violent predator.
00:29:48.760 But even if it's one, even if it's one in a hundred, even if it's one in a thousand,
00:29:54.600 that's enough.
00:29:55.180 And it's not just that.
00:29:56.320 We're talking about truth.
00:29:57.680 We're talking about reality.
00:29:58.880 Megyn Kelly, of course, had a great take on this.
00:30:01.620 This had 84,000 likes on X, so it seemed to resonate with a lot of people.
00:30:05.820 Probably has more than that now.
00:30:07.600 She said, why should Nancy Mace or any other female member of Congress slash staff have
00:30:12.360 to share their bathroom with a man pretending to be a woman?
00:30:14.880 It's not about the feelings of the man masquerading as a fake woman.
00:30:17.660 It's about not forcing actual women to have to worry that a man is in their bathroom where
00:30:23.140 they are vulnerable and which is supposed to be a safe, private, female-only space.
00:30:27.720 Members should stand up for women's rights and not be cowed by empty claims of quote-unquote
00:30:34.020 bullying.
00:30:34.960 Women are the ones being bullied into submission.
00:30:38.440 And she is absolutely right about that.
00:30:42.740 Now, Speaker Johnson has come out with an even stronger and clearer statement that I
00:30:47.460 really appreciate.
00:30:48.900 This just in.
00:30:50.160 He literally just published this.
00:30:51.760 So this is from the Speaker of the House official letterhead.
00:30:56.000 Speaker Johnson's statement on women's-only spaces in the U.S. Capitol.
00:30:59.820 Speaker Johnson issued the following statement regarding the use of single-sex facilities throughout
00:31:03.720 the U.S. Capitol complex, all single-sex facilities in the Capitol and House office buildings, such
00:31:09.100 as restrooms, changing rooms, and locker rooms, are reserved for individuals of that biological
00:31:14.360 sex.
00:31:15.360 It is important to note that each member office has its own private restroom and unisex restrooms
00:31:20.680 are available throughout the Capitol.
00:31:23.100 Women deserve women's-only spaces.
00:31:25.760 So that's the kind of clarity that we're looking for.
00:31:28.700 Thank you, Speaker Johnson.
00:31:30.300 All right.
00:31:30.980 I've got a debate with Brad Palumbo, who is, again, on the other side of this issue.
00:31:38.040 Brad identifies as a libertarian, and so he's not necessarily a leftist, but he identifies
00:31:46.700 as gay himself, and so he is liberal socially.
00:31:50.500 We've debated some of these issues before.
00:31:52.700 Today we're specifically talking about this issue of men in women's restrooms.
00:31:58.720 And just to reiterate, I really encourage you to stay all the way to the end of this debate
00:32:06.380 just to get its full, full effect.
00:32:10.100 The whole room in here is a little stressed out.
00:32:12.720 We're a little stressed out about this, but I did my best to advocate for our position.
00:32:19.240 So I hope it's helpful to you.
00:32:20.780 Without further ado, here is Brad Palumbo.
00:32:22.980 Brad, thanks so much for coming on on such short notice.
00:32:32.340 Okay.
00:32:32.740 First, I just want you to make your case.
00:32:36.060 It seems like, from what I can see on X, that you believe that what you would call trans
00:32:41.760 women should have access to women's bathrooms, specifically as we're talking about this story
00:32:47.260 in Congress.
00:32:47.960 Yeah, we're talking about this push in Congress from Nancy Mace and other Republicans to
00:32:52.920 specifically prohibit Congress members and workers in Congress who identify as trans women,
00:32:58.480 so they're born biologically male, but they present themselves as women, from using women's
00:33:03.040 restrooms in particular, but also other sex-segregated facilities.
00:33:07.360 And I guess I just see the whole thing as a solution in a search of a problem.
00:33:12.080 Basically, they've been using the facilities of their gender identity for years and years now at
00:33:18.040 the Capitol.
00:33:19.020 Nancy Mace has almost certainly been alongside Democratic staffers who are trans women in the
00:33:24.080 washroom many times.
00:33:25.680 And there's been no incidents, even when you zoom out and look across the country, instances of
00:33:31.000 physical assault or voyeurism or harassment in bathrooms are incredibly statistically rare.
00:33:37.520 And these gender identity ordinances that they've passed in many blue areas that allow people to
00:33:41.960 use their gender identity, their preferred bathroom, those don't correspond with any increase
00:33:46.520 empirically in those crimes and those offenses, according to a whole host of studies.
00:33:51.500 So I view the whole thing as kind of a culture war outrage that's solving a problem that isn't
00:33:56.540 really there, but would have some actually pretty messed up consequences, like forcing trans men
00:34:01.880 who are biologically female, but many of whom have huge muscles, full beards and appear
00:34:06.460 as men to use the women's bathroom and to use the women's locker room.
00:34:10.080 And I think that would make women uncomfortable, if not unsafe.
00:34:14.320 Okay.
00:34:14.480 By this logic, then, do you believe that those who identify as women should be able to enter
00:34:21.880 any female bathroom in any space?
00:34:23.960 Or are you seeing this as a kind of isolated issue when it comes to Congress?
00:34:29.060 Well, I don't think it's an isolated issue when it comes to Congress.
00:34:33.100 I think it's something that clearly we have to hash out.
00:34:35.720 And I think private businesses and organizations should be able to have their own rules.
00:34:39.140 So I'm not saying that like at the blaze, they have to have gender inclusive toilets.
00:34:43.620 Like, no, it's your I'm a libertarian.
00:34:45.340 It's your building.
00:34:45.940 You should be able to have whatever policies you want.
00:34:47.880 But generally speaking, I think with bathrooms, there is no need for this strict sex segregation
00:34:54.400 of banning trans women from women's restroom and forcing trans men who appear male in many
00:34:59.980 cases and pass as men into women's restrooms for bathrooms.
00:35:03.920 I think locker rooms or nude spas or other areas like that where there's exposed nudity
00:35:10.420 and other things, I think is much more nuanced and complicated and I think worthy of a different
00:35:15.120 conversation.
00:35:16.400 But banning people from bathrooms, to me, again, it's just pointless and it's going to cause
00:35:21.380 far more problems than it solves.
00:35:23.040 So do you think that there should ever be a restriction against men going into a female
00:35:28.720 bathroom?
00:35:30.360 Well, I think people are more comfortable with these gender or sex segregated bathrooms,
00:35:35.180 and I'm not here railing against that.
00:35:37.160 But I will just point out that is what why do you think people are generally more comfortable
00:35:41.320 with sex segregated bathrooms?
00:35:43.580 Well, I think partially because of sex based violence and violence against women, partially
00:35:48.760 because of just the long history of gender separation.
00:35:51.740 But I will just point out, though, that if you travel, if you go to Spain, if you go to
00:35:56.080 Germany, if you go to all sorts of places, almost all of Scandinavia, you'll find public
00:36:01.060 unisex bathrooms with stalls that men and women use.
00:36:04.200 And it's not leading to some epidemic in sex based crime or gender violence.
00:36:09.640 In fact, in many cases, it's much lower there than here.
00:36:12.760 So I understand that people are more comfortable.
00:36:15.420 That's why I'm not saying rip up the whole system.
00:36:17.360 I'm just saying allow trans people to use the bathroom they want to use in most cases.
00:36:22.280 But you acknowledge that the reason one of the reasons that people are more comfortable
00:36:26.260 in sex segregated spaces and not just people.
00:36:28.740 We're talking specifically about women because no one's really afraid.
00:36:32.820 No man is really afraid of the five foot four guy or actually female with a beard because
00:36:39.840 he's been on testosterone for a few years coming into his bathroom.
00:36:43.240 It is, of course, women who are justifiably nervous about the six foot two guy who happens
00:36:50.580 to be wearing a skirt and lipstick coming into her bathroom, not only with her, but also with
00:36:56.820 her 10 year old daughter.
00:36:58.040 Also, while she may be breastfeeding, also while she may be pumping, while she may be changing.
00:37:02.820 She may be doing things that, of course, require privacy.
00:37:05.880 That's why we have bathrooms.
00:37:07.400 That's why we have stalls.
00:37:09.060 She might be changing a diaper.
00:37:10.920 There are a variety of very private and exposing things that women do in bathrooms.
00:37:17.200 And there is a reason why we have long had sex segregated spaces.
00:37:22.720 And actually, you acknowledged this because of the long history of gender based violence,
00:37:28.140 of sex based violence that has existed.
00:37:30.180 And these men who identify as women, they're still men.
00:37:34.340 Like there is a reason for our own sports, for our own locker rooms, for our own bathrooms.
00:37:40.280 It's not because it makes men more comfortable.
00:37:42.500 It's because it makes women more comfortable.
00:37:44.420 And your argument is basically, it's not just that we should allow so-called trans people
00:37:50.260 into these bathrooms.
00:37:51.580 The other side of that is that you are saying that women should be forced to share these very
00:37:57.400 private spaces with men.
00:37:59.140 I really don't care what Spain does or what Germany does.
00:38:02.800 We don't live here.
00:38:03.760 We don't live there.
00:38:04.720 We live here.
00:38:05.480 And you are asking American women to sacrifice their own comfort, their own safety and their
00:38:11.860 own privacy to share a bathroom with men because it makes some men more comfortable.
00:38:16.880 And I just can't get on board with that.
00:38:19.040 Well, no, I understand you're not going to get on board with that, but that's not what
00:38:22.280 I'm asking because I'm actually coming at it from the same goal as you, which is the comfort
00:38:26.780 and safety of women.
00:38:27.820 I think we have very different ideas about how to get there.
00:38:30.060 I think what would make those girls' daughters uncomfortable is a burly, muscular man-appearing
00:38:36.220 person with a full beard coming in and washing their hands next to them in the bathroom.
00:38:40.920 I don't think washing their hands next to Sarah McBride, the transgender congressperson,
00:38:45.400 is going to be nearly as uncomfortable as that.
00:38:48.540 And I'm not here to discount anyone's fears about safety, but I am going to point out statistical
00:38:53.080 realities.
00:38:54.080 And the realities of gender-based violence and sexual-based violence don't happen in bathrooms
00:38:59.380 except in most vanishingly statistically rare cases.
00:39:02.840 It's almost exclusively the vast majority of the time in other venues, in other situations,
00:39:08.180 not from strangers harassing them in bathrooms.
00:39:11.320 Well, I think we can agree that we are against violence.
00:39:13.680 So what people have a right to feel how they feel, but that doesn't mean it's true.
00:39:15.880 We can.
00:39:17.260 Yes, that's exactly true.
00:39:18.640 That's very relevant when it comes to transgenderism.
00:39:20.960 There are men who feel that they are women, but they're not.
00:39:24.300 And so we can't affirm and assent to their delusions by allowing them into women's bathrooms.
00:39:28.460 It's not just a denial of women's privacy and safety.
00:39:31.080 It's a denial of reality.
00:39:33.360 And of course, we don't-
00:39:33.920 You keep saying safety.
00:39:35.000 Do you have any evidence of that?
00:39:36.480 Well, let's look at these vanishingly small statistics.
00:39:39.260 I think most of us would agree that we don't want violence in any context, whether it's in
00:39:45.040 the bathroom or whether it's somewhere else in some other space.
00:39:49.000 But I do think it's important to look at the faces and the people behind some of these
00:39:54.420 instances that you are saying are rare.
00:39:58.240 For example, when we're looking at Loudoun County schools in May 2021, a boy wearing a
00:40:03.740 skirt assaulted two teen girls in the bathroom at two different schools, and he was transferred
00:40:07.800 multiple times for inflicting violence on these young women.
00:40:11.300 And these parents and these young female students, just young teenagers, had to give their testimonial
00:40:17.220 of this violence, of being beaten by this young man in front of the school board.
00:40:22.220 According to the New York Post, in October 2022, a teen girl in Oklahoma was severely beaten
00:40:27.520 by a transgender peer in the bathroom.
00:40:30.120 Her mother, Teresa Gooden, reported the crime.
00:40:32.940 According to Toronto Sun, in 2018, Shane Jacob Green, who identifies as trans and goes by
00:40:38.840 Stephanie, was convicted of sexual assault after he dragged a 15-year-old female McDonald's
00:40:43.740 employee into a bathroom stall and attacked her while she was cleaning the washroom.
00:40:48.380 According to Metro Magazine, in 2019 in Scotland, Katie, he goes by that, Dolotowski sexually assaulted
00:40:56.180 a 10-year-old girl in a bathroom stall at a supermarket in 2014.
00:41:00.080 So this goes way back, but actually this story is still developing to this day.
00:41:05.240 This person who identifies as Hannah Tubbs admitted to sexually assaulting a 10-year-old
00:41:10.320 girl in the bathroom of a Denny's restaurant.
00:41:13.640 At age 26, it was agreed that he would serve time at a juvenile facility since he was a minor
00:41:19.280 when he assaulted this girl.
00:41:21.000 According to The Independent, in March 2022, Ian Bullock, who claims to identify as female,
00:41:27.060 attacked a woman in the bathroom of Birmingham New Street Station.
00:41:31.560 And this was very easy to find.
00:41:33.660 These stories are not hard to come by.
00:41:36.060 They're easily searchable.
00:41:37.920 And while you might say that this is rare, every single instance of one of these men
00:41:44.440 identifying as a woman to enter into these very vulnerable, helpless spaces for women to
00:41:51.440 assault them, they matter.
00:41:53.120 And they're one too many.
00:41:54.700 Oh, I completely agree they matter.
00:41:55.740 So if we can do anything to deter men who identify as women or men at all from entering
00:42:02.960 into these very vulnerable spaces for women, I say that we should do that.
00:42:08.580 Yeah, Ali.
00:42:09.140 So let me be clear.
00:42:10.180 Of course, I believe they matter.
00:42:11.920 Of course, I believe those people should all be criminally prosecuted and put behind bars.
00:42:15.820 And I feel terrible for the women harmed in all those situations.
00:42:18.800 So let's not make that mistake that I don't care about that.
00:42:22.860 But in the same way that it would be wrong for me to read you a list of Christian priests
00:42:27.440 who have molested children and cast aspersions about all priests or say that priests shouldn't
00:42:32.440 be allowed around children, the plural of anecdote is not evidence.
00:42:36.640 And more broadly, to your deterrence point, it's just not true that people who will assault
00:42:42.000 women or girls in violation of too many laws to count would have been deterred by different
00:42:47.100 school rules about what bathrooms they could go into.
00:42:49.760 You almost sound like a Democrat saying that gun-free zones will stop mass shootings.
00:42:54.560 I'm pretty sure that if you're willing to break rape or murder or assault clause, you
00:42:59.120 don't care about bathroom policies.
00:43:00.600 The boy who identified as a girl and wore a skirt, according to Loudoun County policies,
00:43:08.560 was allowed into women's restrooms.
00:43:11.240 And of course, these girls were bullied and shamed into not saying anything because young
00:43:15.480 people today are told, in order to be tolerant and inclusive, you have to acknowledge that
00:43:20.000 this man wearing a skirt is really a girl and accept him into your spaces.
00:43:26.260 And so absolutely, the policy had something to do with that.
00:43:30.200 If there are consequences...
00:43:31.140 There's already policies against assault.
00:43:33.300 They already broke policies.
00:43:34.540 Why wouldn't they have just broken the bathroom policy, Ali?
00:43:37.120 Because they were allowed in there.
00:43:39.420 They were allowed in there in the first place, but if they had been deterred, if they had
00:43:45.260 been given consequences in the first place for even entering into that space, they wouldn't
00:43:50.180 have been there, Brad.
00:43:51.640 And I think that you understand that.
00:43:53.920 But again, you have already acknowledged that one of the reasons for sex-segregated spaces
00:43:58.780 is for the comfort and the protection and safety of women in light of the history of sex-based
00:44:05.300 violence.
00:44:06.160 You have acknowledged that that is one reason why we have sex-segregated spaces.
00:44:10.580 You simply think that men who identify as women are the exception to that.
00:44:14.040 And one other thing I want to say, because I don't believe in your analogy.
00:44:17.160 Now, I'm not Catholic, and so you can't really get me with the whole Catholic priest thing,
00:44:21.360 but I don't think that's a good analogy, because it's not only that we are saying that men who
00:44:27.520 identify as women may violate these girls.
00:44:30.480 I understand that not every man who identifies as a woman is going to inflict violence.
00:44:34.960 upon a girl or a woman.
00:44:36.940 It's not only that, though.
00:44:38.760 It is in violation of reality.
00:44:41.100 It is in violation of the truth.
00:44:43.460 I think that there is a cost to saying that 2 plus 2 equals 5.
00:44:47.740 Now, you could say it doesn't really hurt you.
00:44:50.300 It doesn't really harm you to say that 2 plus 2 equals 5.
00:44:53.720 Just say it.
00:44:54.860 But I believe in violation of the rules of nature and the laws of reality, I think that
00:45:00.840 there is a cost to that.
00:45:02.120 Not only a human cost when it comes to the safety and the protection of women and girls,
00:45:06.840 but also to our ability to convene together as a society.
00:45:11.540 If we can't even agree that male and female exist, and there are societal implications to
00:45:17.200 that, especially when it comes to intimate spaces like bathrooms and locker rooms, we
00:45:21.860 really don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to anything else.
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00:46:33.000 I do agree that male and female exist.
00:46:35.500 And I think part of the problem here is that the very radical progressive view on trans issues
00:46:39.840 is totally detached from reality.
00:46:42.420 I'm not here denying that a trans woman is a biological male.
00:46:46.240 That is true.
00:46:47.260 I'm saying that letting them live their life in many ways socially as a woman is not a
00:46:52.680 threat to their safety, to the safety of others.
00:46:54.740 Even if they come into my bathroom, even if they use the bathroom next to me and my daughters,
00:47:00.160 you're saying.
00:47:01.040 Allie, you've probably used a bathroom alongside a trans person many times and not noticed.
00:47:04.460 You're acting like they go incognito.
00:47:07.140 Okay.
00:47:07.600 Many do.
00:47:08.240 Many do.
00:47:09.140 No, I probably haven't.
00:47:11.760 I would have noticed.
00:47:13.420 It's very, very noticeable.
00:47:15.040 Sometimes it's very noticeable.
00:47:17.560 Sometimes it's not noticeable at all.
00:47:19.180 And I think you'd be very uncomfortable or your daughters would be uncomfortable next to
00:47:23.800 Buck Angel or somebody with a beard and muscles in the women's room.
00:47:27.060 But that's the policy you're advocating for here.
00:47:29.280 I am.
00:47:29.720 I am advocating for women and men to be in sex separate spaces.
00:47:35.520 Yes.
00:47:35.680 And of course, I am against someone like Buck Angel trying to change her gender and present
00:47:42.080 as something that she is not.
00:47:43.900 And so that's not really a gotcha to me.
00:47:47.380 I do believe in sex separate spaces because I believe in the reality of sex.
00:47:51.420 And you simultaneously say you believe that.
00:47:54.240 But at the same time, you think they should be able to, quote unquote, live their life,
00:47:58.340 even if it infringes upon the rights to privacy of women.
00:48:02.480 And that is the problem.
00:48:04.640 If they do anything that infringes on your right to privacy, they should, like anyone else,
00:48:08.700 like a man or a woman or a trans person or a non-trans person, be arrested for a crime.
00:48:13.620 You don't believe that a woman has a right to her own space.
00:48:16.480 Then you say that that infringes upon our privacy.
00:48:19.680 But you're saying that I don't have the right to privacy in the bathroom, privacy against
00:48:25.660 a man, which is why we have sex segregated bathrooms in the first place.
00:48:29.520 You're saying that women really don't have that right.
00:48:31.780 If a man who thinks he's a woman wants to come in our bathroom.
00:48:34.920 I think if that man harasses you or bothers you or peeps in the stall or does anything else,
00:48:39.860 they should be arrested and criminalized.
00:48:41.700 But no, I don't think you're victimized by washing your hands next to Sarah McBride.
00:48:45.700 I don't.
00:48:46.860 OK, but what if it is what if it's a man who's not wearing a skirt?
00:48:49.740 What if it's a man who looks fully like a man and he comes into the women's bathroom?
00:48:54.280 Should that be OK?
00:48:55.820 That's the problem.
00:48:56.680 It really shouldn't.
00:48:57.620 That's the problem with self-ID, the progressive policy on trans issues.
00:49:00.900 I think there should be a rigorous process you need to obtain a gender recognition certificate
00:49:05.920 for transitioning gender.
00:49:08.220 And it's relevant to this conversation.
00:49:10.220 I want to know what should the process be to be women, female enough to be able to enter
00:49:16.860 women's spaces like the bathroom?
00:49:18.540 In Britain, before they instituted self-ID, which is the kind of nonsense you're describing
00:49:24.040 and I agree is absurd, where anyone can just declare the gender they feel like, they used
00:49:29.100 to have to go through a process of several years of therapy and a confirmed medical diagnosis
00:49:34.040 of gender dysphoria, including living as their opposite sex for years before they could obtain
00:49:39.840 a gender recognition certificate that would allow them to say, use a public women's restroom.
00:49:44.280 That is a process that's going to stop somebody from just putting on a wig one day and walking
00:49:48.380 into the bathroom.
00:49:49.120 That wouldn't be allowed, but it's not going to end up in the perverse result where people
00:49:53.360 who, for all intents and purposes, appear as the opposite sex, appear as male, are forced
00:49:58.840 to use the women's room.
00:49:59.940 Or women's people who appear as female are forced to use the male locker room, making many
00:50:04.780 little boys uncomfortable, potentially.
00:50:07.280 I mean, it's just, you're not concerned at all with the practical implications of the
00:50:11.760 things you're suggesting.
00:50:12.980 And I understand for you, it's about first principles, but you haven't, I don't think
00:50:17.740 you are.
00:50:18.380 Okay.
00:50:18.780 I'm very concerned with the practical implications of a lot.
00:50:22.260 We don't have, we don't have that process that you're talking about.
00:50:25.660 We do have, we do, listen, we do have self-identification right now.
00:50:29.740 And so you're talking about a hypothetical one day, if we have these processes to verify
00:50:34.300 that man is really a woman and is not a threat to women, which of course I completely disagree
00:50:39.620 with because again, you have arbitrary standards for becoming the opposite gender.
00:50:44.540 And of course that's a slippery slope, not even the slippery slope fallacy.
00:50:49.540 It just is because all of those standards outside of biology are going to be arbitrary.
00:50:53.820 Of course that can be exploited and abused, but regardless, we don't have that.
00:50:57.800 We do have a man who grew out his hair and wears lipstick and says that he's a woman entering
00:51:02.600 into women's spaces.
00:51:04.220 And so what you're talking about as absurd is actually happening.
00:51:07.700 And you are talking about Sarah McBride.
00:51:09.360 Yes.
00:51:09.700 And you think that's okay.
00:51:11.100 She hasn't gone through all of these people that you're talking about that I listed,
00:51:14.780 haven't gone through that process that you're saying needs to happen in order to legitimize
00:51:19.740 someone's transgenderism.
00:51:22.360 No, she hasn't gone through any kind of legal process in order to verify that she's
00:51:27.300 really quote unquote trans.
00:51:29.340 This is actually a man who is dressing up like a woman entering into women's spaces.
00:51:34.120 And again, you do not believe that women have the right to be protected against that.
00:51:39.680 The other question that I have.
00:51:40.800 I don't think the public bathroom is an issue.
00:51:42.520 Now, can I ask you a quick question, Allie?
00:51:44.600 In the past five years, for example, in the Capitol, in Congress, where they've had policies
00:51:49.000 where all the trans women staffers who work for Democrats are allowed to use women's
00:51:53.540 public bathrooms, can you name one incident or assault that was perpetrated in the Capitol
00:51:58.380 by a trans person over the last five years?
00:52:00.820 I have no idea.
00:52:01.780 Maybe Nancy Mace would know.
00:52:03.900 Well, I think if she'd had one, she would have talked about it.
00:52:06.940 She's been very vocal.
00:52:07.660 Even if it hasn't already happened in Congress or in the Capitol building, does it mean that
00:52:13.820 she does not have the right, that Mace does not have the right to stand up for herself?
00:52:17.760 One other clarifying question that I have here is you said that you think that there
00:52:23.600 should be nuance and maybe different kinds of regulations when it comes to locker rooms.
00:52:28.580 Tell me why, though, because you don't seem to think that this is a big issue in bathrooms
00:52:33.660 where women are at least half naked.
00:52:36.000 So tell me why locker rooms, if you believe that these so-called trans women should just
00:52:41.080 be able to live their lives, why are locker rooms different?
00:52:45.040 Because I completely understand that many women wouldn't want to be exposed to male genitalia
00:52:50.420 in a locker room.
00:52:51.200 And why is that, Brad?
00:52:52.420 Why?
00:52:53.360 Why do you think?
00:52:53.580 Because it would make them uncomfortable.
00:52:55.120 Right.
00:52:55.640 So if it makes them uncomfortable for men to be in bathrooms, why isn't that enough?
00:52:58.940 Well, many women, it doesn't make them uncomfortable for trans women to be in women's bathroom.
00:53:04.380 Hundreds of female Democratic members of Congress are comfortable with it.
00:53:06.860 Many women, it doesn't make them uncomfortable for a man to change in front of them in a locker
00:53:10.340 room either.
00:53:11.280 But you're saying we should defer to the women who are uncomfortable with men changing in
00:53:17.880 front of them in the locker room, right?
00:53:20.240 And so why doesn't that apply to bathrooms, too?
00:53:22.520 Why is it different?
00:53:24.020 Well, because there's not routine nudity and exposure to other people in bathrooms.
00:53:28.340 With stalls, it's a different situation that calls for different roles.
00:53:31.420 So you get to tell women what should make them uncomfortable and what shouldn't?
00:53:35.660 No.
00:53:36.060 And you sound like a woke feminist.
00:53:38.280 Are you going to dye your hair pink?
00:53:39.680 My opinion is not invalid because I'm a male.
00:53:41.700 I don't think that I, the person who believes in the reality of gender and that women should
00:53:47.160 have their own sex-exclusive spaces, speaking to the guy who doesn't actually believe women
00:53:52.000 have the right to that, I don't think I'm the one who sounds...
00:53:55.980 Yes, that's identity politics, Allie.
00:53:58.060 Brad, Brad, you cited it as an argument.
00:54:00.700 Do you hear yourself?
00:54:02.020 You said that...
00:54:02.640 I never said, I'm a man, so I know this.
00:54:04.400 Listen to me!
00:54:05.240 Listen to me!
00:54:06.240 You said that the reason why we should not allow men who identify as women into the
00:54:11.660 locker room is because women might be uncomfortable with a man changing in front of them.
00:54:16.540 That was your reason, not mine.
00:54:18.960 And so I'm saying women also are uncomfortable with men peeing next to them in a stall.
00:54:24.780 And you're saying that's not a good enough reason to keep those men out of women's bathrooms.
00:54:29.580 I'm asking you to tell me the difference.
00:54:31.720 You don't know the difference, which is why you're projecting your wokeism onto me.
00:54:35.940 The difference is one involves being exposed to nudity and one doesn't.
00:54:37.320 That's a meaningful difference.
00:54:39.060 And so I think you shouldn't be allowed to use a female locker room or changing room if
00:54:42.600 you haven't had bottom surgery and you still have a penis.
00:54:45.200 I think that's a reasonable restriction to have.
00:54:47.420 But if women are uncomfortable in both cases, you're saying one discomfort is legitimate,
00:54:55.480 one discomfort is not legitimate.
00:54:57.520 And if you truly believe that so-called trans women should just be able to live their lives
00:55:02.460 and enter the spaces that they want to, if your reason for allowing these men into bathrooms
00:55:07.080 is because there's not enough statistical data that proves that sexual assaults happen in
00:55:13.140 those bathrooms, then that should also apply to locker rooms.
00:55:16.600 But it's a double standard.
00:55:18.300 It's cognitive dissonance that you really cannot reconcile and that you haven't been able to
00:55:23.660 reconcile.
00:55:24.520 But you're citing female discomfort.
00:55:26.500 I'm saying women are uncomfortable, rightfully so, in both spaces.
00:55:30.860 Women have a right to our privacy.
00:55:32.780 But women are also going to be uncomfortable with trans men in women's spaces.
00:55:35.280 We have a right to sex-segregated spaces.
00:55:37.680 And that's the end of the story.
00:55:39.000 And I'm very thankful Nancy Mace is pushing this.
00:55:41.640 But I do appreciate you taking the time to come on.
00:55:44.800 I appreciate you having these spirited debates as well, Allie.
00:55:47.600 Thanks for having me.
00:55:48.360 Thanks.
00:55:48.620 Have a good day.
00:55:53.400 All right, guys.
00:55:54.680 Deep breaths.
00:55:56.020 You made it through the debate.
00:55:58.440 I told you, a little stressful towards the end.
00:56:00.820 OK, we're going to read our last ad.
00:56:02.320 And then we'll have kind of maybe more lighthearted things towards the end.
00:56:06.920 It'll make us laugh and cry at the same time.
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00:57:00.920 Okay, so all of this is happening during, or I guess after, what day is it?
00:57:10.920 After Transgender Awareness Week, November 20th.
00:57:16.800 Today is Transgender Day of Remembrance, whatever that means.
00:57:23.440 And so in light of this, there are so-called Christians, or churches, as they call themselves,
00:57:31.080 across the country, conducting rituals to memorialize this day.
00:57:36.880 Here's the United Methodist Church of Portland calling on their transestors.
00:57:44.180 Is that one?
00:57:44.620 We call to the transestors whose gender was celebrated, who are honored by your communities
00:57:51.860 and given sacred roles as priestesses, shamans, and leaders.
00:57:58.100 We call also to the transestors who are shunned and silenced, who know how to survive harsher
00:58:06.700 times than these.
00:58:07.980 We call on the transestors who fought for liberation and justice to bring us closer to
00:58:17.400 the time when all can live their truth without fear.
00:58:22.540 Okay, so it's just full-on paganism because it's not only this idea that a man can become
00:58:31.000 a woman, which is a superstitious religious belief.
00:58:34.360 Don't let anyone tell you that's like a secular, neutral idea.
00:58:38.160 That is a religious belief.
00:58:40.100 That is this idea of dualism, that our body and our spirit are these dual entities, and
00:58:51.620 our body is ruled by our spirit's supreme transcendent knowledge, and that who we really are is what
00:59:00.960 we feel on the inside, and our body, physical reality, is really just arbitrary, is really
00:59:07.020 just malleable.
00:59:08.140 That is not the Christian perspective.
00:59:10.580 The Christian perspective is that the body is part of what is being made in God's image.
00:59:17.940 The body matters.
00:59:20.240 The body is valuable to God.
00:59:22.400 It's so valuable that if you murder someone, according to Genesis 9-6, the only just punishment
00:59:29.200 for that murder is execution, is the death penalty.
00:59:33.180 That's how much the body matters.
00:59:35.120 Even though the soul goes on forever, God had all kinds of laws and rules and regulations
00:59:41.020 surrounding what his people did with his body.
00:59:44.380 And of course, in the New Testament, we see these moral truths reemphasized by Jesus.
00:59:51.500 Sexual morality, the holiness of our physical lives is something that is prioritized in Christian
01:00:00.520 doctrine.
01:00:01.300 And of course, we read that as Christians, our bodies are dwelling places for the Holy Spirit.
01:00:07.220 The body matters so much that we serve an incarnate Savior who came to earth and dwelt in the
01:00:16.480 flesh, who became a man and died a bodily death on the cross and rose bodily.
01:00:23.780 We believe in a future resurrection of the bodies as Christians.
01:00:29.080 And so we believe in the importance of physical reality.
01:00:34.180 We believe in the significance of biological reality.
01:00:38.500 We believe in these biological binary distinctions of male and female.
01:00:44.440 And yet, in whatever you just watched, which is just straight up paganism, again, they deny
01:00:51.480 all of those beliefs.
01:00:52.880 They deny scientific and biological reality, and they also deny the theological reality that
01:00:58.320 we read in the very first chapter of the first book of the Bible in Genesis 127, that
01:01:03.300 God made us male and female.
01:01:04.900 That is part of what it means to be made in God's image.
01:01:08.400 There, he creates not only gender, he also creates marriage.
01:01:11.820 He creates the family.
01:01:13.480 They are told through their biology to be fruitful and multiply.
01:01:16.840 And so we are given not only a function, but a purpose.
01:01:22.620 We are given a telos.
01:01:24.140 And Christianity believes in this teleological view of the world, that how we are made tells
01:01:31.980 us what we are to do, which tells us, at least in part, who we are.
01:01:38.940 And so actually, it's Christianity who has a much higher view of the body, a higher view
01:01:44.600 of science and biological reality than this paganism.
01:01:49.880 And this is really Satanism.
01:01:51.400 If you look at one of the symbols of Satan, Baphomet, he is part female in body and part
01:01:59.220 male.
01:02:00.120 And so this idea of transgenderism really does have its roots in Satanism, in demonic ideas.
01:02:10.060 This idea that to transcend the gender binary is somehow more divine and more powerful, calling
01:02:18.540 upon ancestors, that's necromancy.
01:02:22.080 And that is absolutely forbidden in scripture.
01:02:25.900 Israel was forbidden from doing that.
01:02:29.860 Christians are also forbidden from doing that.
01:02:32.720 You are trying to communicate with the dead, which is really just communication with demons.
01:02:38.460 And so United Methodist Church, like this is part of what the Methodist Church was split
01:02:43.500 over people like this and those who still defend the reality of the gender binary.
01:02:48.760 It's just full on Satanism.
01:02:52.180 It destroys the body.
01:02:53.700 It destroys the soul.
01:02:55.380 It destroys the family.
01:02:57.100 It destroys the innocence of children, because children are always the unconsenting subjects
01:03:01.860 of progressive social experiments.
01:03:03.740 That's why so much of this ideology and the ideologues attached to it prey upon children.
01:03:09.880 And I just want to remind you to go back, listen to my episodes with Genevieve Gluck, that the
01:03:15.260 roots of transgenderism is really not about gender and how people feel about their identity.
01:03:21.260 It's really about sex.
01:03:23.220 It's really about sexual desire.
01:03:25.260 It's not really about gender dysphoria.
01:03:27.280 For most of these men, for most of these men, it started with an addiction to porn, with
01:03:33.180 a humiliation fetish, and they actually enjoy other people being forced to play along with
01:03:39.460 their humiliation fetish.
01:03:41.680 And it's a dark thing and it's a dark world.
01:03:44.920 But I actually do think it's important for you to understand that because you will have
01:03:51.680 a right perspective of what we're dealing with and you will have even more sympathy for
01:03:56.420 someone like Nancy Mace.
01:03:57.780 And you will drop any pretense and any feelings of cringe that you might have that those of
01:04:04.940 us who are conservatives, conservative Christians are too harsh about this.
01:04:08.920 We are dealing in many cases with very, very bad actors who do want to infiltrate women's
01:04:15.600 spaces to get to vulnerable women.
01:04:17.240 I'm not saying this McBride person is that, but I'm saying this is a large part of this
01:04:22.000 movement and we need to take it very seriously.
01:04:24.220 Read my book, Toxic Empathy, where we have an entire chapter dedicated to the lie that
01:04:31.580 trans women are women.
01:04:34.140 And in these chaotic, crazy, deceitful times, the boldest thing that we can do is not lie
01:04:40.660 and not assent to delusions.
01:04:43.320 That is the Christian's responsibility.
01:04:46.280 Be a refuge of clarity and courage.
01:04:48.780 And by the way, telling the truth about this can change minds and hearts.
01:04:54.300 I get sometimes you're not changing anyone's mind by calling a man he if he identifies a
01:04:59.980 woman.
01:05:00.240 That's simply not true.
01:05:02.160 We have sat down with people on this couch whose minds were changed either by me telling
01:05:09.100 the truth about gender ideology or about someone in their family refusing to call them by the
01:05:14.240 opposite sex pronouns.
01:05:15.520 I can't tell you how many testimonies of detransitioners that I hear who tell me that it was someone
01:05:21.940 refusing to lie to them that ultimately changed their mind and heart or God used to change
01:05:27.900 their mind and heart because, of course, he gets the credit.
01:05:30.680 So speak the truth in love.
01:05:32.600 Speak it relentlessly.
01:05:33.860 Remember, you are not nicer than God.
01:05:36.380 And God created the male and female.
01:05:38.160 And if he's bold enough to say it in the first chapter of the first book of the Bible, the most
01:05:41.920 loving thing that we can do is agree with him.
01:05:44.600 All right, that's all we got time for today.
01:05:47.260 Go, Nancy Mace.
01:05:48.100 You're doing a good job.
01:05:49.220 We'll be back here tomorrow.