Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1108 ｜ UK’s Assisted Suicide Bill, Booming Bible Sales & John Piper Scorches Pronouns ｜ Guest： Dr. Calum Miller

00:00:00.820 The UK is debating a bill that would legalize assisted suicide. We've got a UK doctor here

00:00:07.000 today, Dr. Callum Miller, to tell us the true moral implications of a bill like this. We will

00:00:13.720 also be talking about some good news, the significant rise in Bible sales. And we've

00:00:19.960 got a word from John Piper, who has something to say about so-called pronoun politeness. All of

00:00:26.340 this and more on today's episode of Relatable. It's brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers.

00:00:29.580 Go to GoodRanchers.com, use code Allie at checkout. That's GoodRanchers.com, code Allie.

00:00:43.920 Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Tuesday. Hope everyone has had a wonderful week so far.

00:00:49.680 First, we are going to talk about this assisted suicide bill that is now being discussed,

00:00:55.840 debated in the UK. Of course, the debate has made it over here in the United States, where

00:01:00.940 it is legal in some places to die by euthanasia. Of course, this is also legal in Canada. We

00:01:08.940 have already seen, as we will discuss with Dr. Callum Miller, the slippery slope of assisted

00:01:15.100 suicide. This is not about dying with dignity. This is allowing people to murder themselves.

00:01:20.800 And of course, we as Christians understand because people are made in the image of God,

00:01:25.900 they have infinite value and therefore inducing their death, communicating to them that they are

00:01:33.800 too much of a burden either to themselves, to their communities, to their family, to their

00:01:38.980 friends by saying, yes, your pain is too much. This is too hard. Here is a way that you can end your

00:01:47.300 life. We know that that is immoral. We know that that is actually undignified, that that is wrong.

00:01:52.820 And this is the consequence of this consent-based morality model that many conservatives and

00:02:00.540 progressives have adopted. This idea that as long as you choose to do something, as long as you consent

00:02:05.980 to something, it is therefore moral. Well, that is not true. You can consent to something that is still

00:02:12.780 immoral. You can consent to being objectified. You can consent to being exploited. You can consent to

00:02:20.380 being sexualized. And that is still immoral. It is still wrong to objectify a human being. It is still

00:02:28.160 wrong to treat a human being less than the image bearer of God that they are. And so we can't have just a

00:02:37.320 consent-based model that is also the justification for things like abortion. It's the justification for

00:02:44.040 things like pornography, all kinds of unethical, immoral things. We have to have a standard of

00:02:50.060 objective truth and universal morality. We at least have to debate our way to get to as close to that as

00:02:57.140 we possibly can, to get to a place where we agree at least that there is an objective morality, that

00:03:03.520 every law, that every policy decision that we make should be aiming toward. Yes, we live in a pluralistic

00:03:10.520 society. Not everyone believes in the God of the Bible. Not everyone believes in the supremacy and the

00:03:15.840 authority of Scripture. But we as Christians should, with our whole chest, be advocating for that worldview in the

00:03:23.520 public sphere because lives are on the line. I hear from so many pastors that Christians shouldn't engage in the

00:03:29.300 culture war, that we shouldn't care about politics because, well, that's just divisive and you're going

00:03:34.020 to hurt someone's feelings. And maybe you might even inhibit someone from knowing the gospel because of

00:03:39.540 your diehard position on politics. That is such a weak and cowardly and ignorant position. We care about 1.00

00:03:45.780 politics because it affects people. Because politics matter, because policy matters, because people

00:03:51.300 matter. Politics affects policy. Policy affects people. People matter. They matter to God. And therefore,

00:03:57.680 as Christians, we understand better than anyone else that they must matter to us. Politics are not just

00:04:05.680 an abstract thing. The culture wars are not just some far-off intangible idea. When we are talking

00:04:13.080 about things like abortion, when we are talking about dying by suicide, the legalized killing of

00:04:18.980 vulnerable, mentally and physically vulnerable people, we are talking about image bearers of God.

00:04:23.700 And if Christians are not willing to advocate with the fullness of our worldview, which says that we

00:04:29.540 believe in a God who created us in love and with purpose, and therefore how we treat people matters,

00:04:36.300 and the law should protect people because they matter, then no one else is going to advocate for these

00:04:41.760 people. Politics is not the only or even primary way to love your neighbor, but it is a way to love your

00:04:48.900 neighbor. We advocate for the legal right to life for unborn children because those children cannot speak up 1.00

00:04:55.200 for themselves, and yet their value is the same as ours, and they should be protected. And we know that if God

00:05:01.960 hates anything, he hates the murder of the innocent. He hates the exploitation and the abuse of the

00:05:09.900 vulnerable. That is his character. That's what he shows himself to be throughout Scripture and throughout history.

00:05:15.860 And it is true also in the end of life. Now, you guys know that I am in favor of the death penalty

00:05:21.940 for certain crimes, like capital murder, for the same reason that I am against abortion, because I

00:05:27.840 believe in the protection of innocent life, and that is the only just and proportionate punishment for

00:05:32.400 purposely ending the life of an innocent person. But not all killing is murder. Some killing is murder,

00:05:40.280 like the purposeful killing of an innocent person, but not all killing is prohibited in Scripture. War,

00:05:49.400 self-defense, these are not the same things as murder. Dying by suicide is. It is self-murder,

00:05:57.240 and it is also dependent upon the help of professionals like doctors, like lawmakers, who are not only

00:06:06.020 making self-murder accessible, but palatable and attractive, or even encouraging self-murder for

00:06:13.920 people who just feel despair, like they just can't take it anymore. And so the UK is debating this bill.

00:06:22.540 It is Bill 012-012, and it was introduced in the UK's House of Commons on November 11th. It hasn't

00:06:30.480 made it all the way yet. It's 38 pages long. It allows for adults, excuse me, over the age of 18 who are

00:06:38.120 terminally ill and expected to die naturally within six months to request and be provided medical assistance

00:06:44.360 in order to end their life. But there are groups behind this bill who are very nefarious, who want to

00:06:50.500 control population growth, and there are really no guardrails in this bill at all. It will lead to the killing

00:06:58.380 of so many vulnerable people. And so today I've got Dr. Callum Miller, who has been very vehemently and

00:07:05.340 publicly opposing this bill. He graduated from the University of Oxford Medical School in 2015.

00:07:12.120 He holds a master's with distinction in biblical studies. He works as a medical doctor in the UK.

00:07:17.240 We've had him on before because he is one of the few outspoken pro-life advocates and doctors

00:07:26.020 in the UK. And so we've had him on the white couch sharing his perspective on that. But now he has

00:07:32.580 something to say about not only the Christian, but the doctor's responsibility to preserve the lives of

00:07:39.640 their patients rather than encouraging them to die early. So we're about to get into our conversation

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00:08:52.320 Dr. Miller, thanks so much for taking the time to join us. I've been seeing your posts on X about

00:08:57.780 this so-called end-of-life bill. Can you tell us what is going on in the UK?

00:09:03.260 Yes, in the UK, we've just passed in second reading. It's not fully passed, but we've nearly

00:09:10.140 passed a bill basically for euthanasia through assisted suicide. It would allow people within 0.99

00:09:15.740 the last six months of their life or who are predicted to have less than six months left to

00:09:20.100 live, it would allow doctors to give them lethal drugs so that they can kill themselves, which would

00:09:25.580 be very unprecedented in the UK. We don't have anything like that at the moment. Only a small

00:09:29.220 handful of countries in the world do. And so it would be a really radical shift, not only to our

00:09:34.380 approach towards suicide, not only our approach towards vulnerable people, but also our approach

00:09:39.920 towards medicine and doctors and the role that they have in making them people who kill rather than

00:09:44.860 people who save lives. And so it's caused a lot of debate over here, which I've been part of over

00:09:49.840 the last week. So those who defend this bill say that this is allowing people who are going to die

00:09:55.920 anyway, to choose how they die, how quickly they die, and in that way is giving them dignity.

00:10:03.460 This bill would only allow those, it says, that have some kind of terminal illness. Say they have,

00:10:10.540 you know, I don't know, stage four pancreatic cancer. They've only been given a few months left to

00:10:15.320 live. And instead of languishing in a hospital, they want to be able to die at home with their loved

00:10:22.340 ones in a way that they see fit. And so they're almost saying that this is actually a human rights,

00:10:29.600 human dignity bill, but that's not how you see it.

00:10:33.940 No, I think, I mean, one of the concerns is that almost no one believes that it would remain

00:10:39.380 at, you know, just this small group of people. You know, when we see how this works in other

00:10:43.960 countries, it almost always expands to a larger group of people. It might be done through parliament,

00:10:49.500 through legislation, or it might be done through the courts. If the courts say this is discriminatory

00:10:53.740 because you're only allowing autonomy to a certain group of people, you know, it's discriminatory and

00:10:58.740 it needs to be struck down and it needs to be applied to everyone. And in fact, even if you look

00:11:02.960 at the people pushing the bill, the patrons of the charity pushing the bill, and a lot of the supporters

00:11:08.260 are basically already saying it doesn't go far enough because it's only limited to a small number of

00:11:13.400 people. And also, when you look at the logic of the argument, it almost inevitably leads to being

00:11:19.800 expanded because the argument is basically, these people are suffering. The only humane option to

00:11:26.740 prevent that suffering is to kill them. And, you know, if that's the case, then what about people who 0.99

00:11:33.280 are suffering tremendously, but have decades left to live, they have even more suffering ahead of them.

00:11:38.740 And it seems even more inhumane to allow them to keep living their lives. And so I think just the

00:11:44.480 inherent logic of this plus the momentum and what we've seen in other countries is that it's pretty

00:11:50.120 much guaranteed to go beyond this initial scope. And this would just be the first sort of step towards

00:11:55.760 that. So, you know, of course, there's a doctor and someone who's familiar with medicine and familiar

00:12:01.060 with the statistics. We don't think that killing is the solution to suffering. It's very rare that

00:12:07.400 palliative care is unable to control symptoms. And actually, when you look at the statistics,

00:12:12.200 most of the people that choose this have ultimately existential problems, they feel like they're being

00:12:18.400 degraded or humiliated. Actual pain itself is not really a big part of this, which says that ultimately

00:12:24.520 the solution isn't killing, which is never dignified. It's actually giving people a better understanding of

00:12:31.960 their self-worth and their dignity, even in their vulnerability independence. And so I think ultimately,

00:12:36.960 it's a existential and spiritual problem that we have, and that will never be fixed either by

00:12:42.580 symptom management or by killing. It will be fixed by reaffirming human dignity for those people.

00:12:49.520 And for those who don't know, palliative care is just comfort care. So if someone is going to die,

00:12:54.260 there's nothing left to do that could actually save their life. You comfort them in the last moments

00:12:58.820 in a way to alleviate the pain. And as you said, some of the other symptoms that might come along

00:13:04.220 with the diagnosis they have, correct? That's right. Yeah. And there's a lot of confusion

00:13:09.260 about this because they've been calling it an assisted dying bill. And they do this in many

00:13:13.800 countries. They use terminology in a fairly misleading way. We already have assisted dying.

00:13:20.060 People die. We assist them in controlling their symptoms, keeping them comfortable looking after

00:13:25.000 them. That's perfectly legal. We do it every time someone passes away when we can. What they're

00:13:30.280 actually trying to legalize is assisted suicide, where we're actually giving the patient the tools

00:13:35.340 to end their own life, which is very different. Right. And you have criticized the lack of

00:13:40.200 guardrails that exist in this bill. The defenders of the bill say, oh, there are already so many

00:13:45.180 stipulations, so many safety measures that are put in place to make sure that this is not the slippery

00:13:50.520 slope that people are afraid that it will be. But you say that this two-doctor guardrail that is in

00:13:56.600 this bill that basically says two doctors have to sign off on it. That already is not enough, correct?

00:14:03.440 Yeah. So they say, you know, the proponents of the bill say, look, you have to have two

00:14:07.340 independent doctors signing off. The reality is that doctors do not have time to understand

00:14:13.840 patients' full history. They don't have time to understand or even the ability to understand if a

00:14:18.980 patient is being coerced. We know that in Oregon, where this is legal and the bill is modeled after

00:14:23.760 Oregon, 40% of patients having assisted suicide say that they're having it because they feel like

00:14:30.140 they're a burden to their friends or family. So this is already going on in the US on the West

00:14:34.280 Coast as well. And, you know, nearly half of those people who are victims of it are doing it in part

00:14:40.180 because they feel like a burden. And so those safeguards are clearly not working. Some of them even

00:14:45.380 say in Oregon that they're doing it because they're worried about their finances. And so, you know,

00:14:51.060 coming back to the two doctor thing, they say, look, it's these two independent doctors,

00:14:54.660 even if, you know, the doctors could legitimately and reliably detect coercion and that sort of thing.

00:15:01.140 What the bill actually says is that the first doctor chooses the second doctor. So they're not

00:15:05.520 independent at all. You can just get a doctor who's fine with euthanasia for any reason,

00:15:10.440 refers to another doctor who's fine with euthanasia for any reason. And then it even says if the second

00:15:15.740 doctor by chance says no, then they can choose another doctor to be the second doctor. So it

00:15:21.420 really is, you know, the most farcical kind of safeguard. And that's why a lot of disability groups 1.00

00:15:26.700 and many other groups that work with vulnerable people are so frightened about this piece of

00:15:31.320 legislation. It sounds so similar to the euphemisms that are used surrounding abortion and the definitions

00:15:39.060 that are used surrounding abortion. Abortion in several states in the US is legal through all nine

00:15:44.380 months as long as it is to save the quote unquote life and preserve the health of the mother. But

00:15:50.300 health is defined in the Supreme Court case Doe v. Bolton as not only physical health, but it could be

00:15:57.380 her mental, emotional health. It could also be her familial state. So if she has an unstable family 0.67

00:16:03.860 situation, it could also mean her financial circumstances. So virtually for any reason, as long as it falls under

00:16:11.660 this loose category of health, then it sounds like this is the direction that euthanasia has already

00:16:17.460 gone, not only in some places in the United States, but certainly in Canada, we don't really have to look

00:16:23.780 very far to see where this goes. Several instances in Canada have shown that this is used for people who

00:16:32.140 are simply unhappy, not just unwell, but unhappy. As you said, they feel like a social burden, or maybe they

00:16:39.660 just don't feel like they can carry the weight of their own circumstances or their own diagnosis.

00:16:44.960 And so, as you said, it's not actually just assisting people who are already dying. It is inducing death.

00:16:51.980 It is allowing someone to kill themselves because we can't be bothered either as a community or a

00:16:57.640 country or whatever to help alleviate the actual burdens that would encourage someone and strengthen

00:17:03.900 someone to go on. And that's a really sad moral state of things, I would say.

00:17:10.360 Absolutely. And, you know, we had our former prime minister, David Cameron, write an opinion piece that

00:17:14.960 said this bill isn't about ending life. It's about shortening death, whatever that means. I mean,

00:17:20.200 the reality is that everyone is on a pathway to death and any killing could be seen as shortening death

00:17:26.060 in that sense. And you're absolutely right that the way these are interpreted go way beyond what the

00:17:31.300 people initially propose. In Canada, they're now trying to introduce it for mental illness. In Oregon,

00:17:36.440 they're already doing it in part for mental illness. We know that some people have committed

00:17:40.680 suicide through the state because of anorexia in Oregon. And, you know, they say that you have to

00:17:47.680 have six months left to live or less. The reality is this is very unreliable. I think there was a study

00:17:53.140 that showed this is only about 30% reliable, so it's worse than flipping a coin. But moreover, when they say,

00:17:59.640 you know, you're expected to have less than six months, there's evidence that in Oregon,

00:18:04.400 they interpret this as, you know, with or without treatment. As in, you know, you could say that

00:18:10.840 someone with appendicitis has less than six months to live, because if they don't get treatment,

00:18:16.420 they will die because the appendix will burst and they'll get an infection and so on. But

00:18:20.540 appendicitis is obviously completely treatable in almost every case. But the way the law is being

00:18:25.740 interpreted in Oregon suggests that even a simple condition could count as giving you a six month

00:18:31.680 prognosis or less, because they say, well, if we don't treat you, then you're going to pass away

00:18:37.100 soon. And therefore, you're entitled to this. And so all of these things, you know, these loopholes

00:18:42.500 are always exploited. That's part of the intention of them. And we see that in every country in the

00:18:47.240 world, really.

00:18:48.800 Yes. And I just wanted to verify what you're saying, because there will be some out there

00:18:52.280 who are thinking this doesn't happen in Oregon. There is no way that they are allowing people who

00:18:57.860 suffer from things like anorexia and bulimia to kill themselves. But I just looked it up. People

00:19:02.660 can look it up. I typed in Oregon euthanasia, anorexia, and several articles came up. This is

00:19:08.740 absolutely something that is happening. And people who claim to be scholars are the ones that are

00:19:14.080 providing the arguments to justify this. So as you said, we already see exactly where this is going.

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00:20:32.080 are behind this? There's a lot of dark money, which often gets kind of, you know, labeled with

00:20:39.020 conservatives. But actually, in this case, there is a lot of really shady kind of stuff. We don't

00:20:44.260 really know where the money comes from. We know that a lot of it comes from large donors who are

00:20:48.680 not named. We know that some of the groups pushing this, there's a group called More in Common, which is

00:20:53.720 in the US and the UK and a couple of other countries. This is very closely connected to the sponsor of the

00:20:59.820 bill. It was actually set up, you know, after the death of the sponsor's sister a few years ago, very

00:21:07.480 closely related to it. They have been pushing opinion polls, pushing for this bill. They're funded by

00:21:13.340 various groups, including George Soros' Open Society Foundations. They're also funded by the Hewlett

00:21:19.520 Foundation, which has a huge population program. They've spent about $500 million over the last few

00:21:27.840 decades pushing for population control and depopulation of the world. I tried not to be a

00:21:34.000 conspiracy theorist. I chastised a lot of my friends for kind of going in that direction. But it's

00:21:40.000 absolutely true to say, and there's, you know, very, very clear evidence to any observer that there is a

00:21:45.220 depopulation agenda, the idea that the world is overpopulated, that people are a burden. And of course, this

00:21:50.680 is getting worse because of aging populations, because we don't have enough kids. We're having a lot more 0.99

00:21:55.000 elderly people who need a lot more time and care. And it's much, much more convenient to kill someone 1.00

00:22:01.000 for a few dollars than to spend thousands of dollars and a lot of time and energy actually looking after

00:22:06.320 them. And so, you know, I don't know the intention of everyone who's pushing for this. I'm sure that there

00:22:11.080 are a lot of people who support this really out of good intentions, because they want to alleviate

00:22:16.040 suffering. And, you know, I know many people who support it because of that. But at the same time, we have to be

00:22:20.960 aware that there will always be much more powerful and sinister entities that want this for much more

00:22:27.600 sinister reasons. They will hijack whatever goes through. And they're even very likely pushing what's

00:22:33.340 going through as part of a depopulation agenda, really just for economic reasons. And so it's

00:22:38.860 something that we need to look more into. And we haven't fully got to the bottom of it yet.

00:22:43.760 Yes. And really, the Hewlett Foundation, I mean, if people want to say that that's conspiratorial,

00:22:48.260 all they have to do is look that up. The population program at the Hewlett Foundation is pretty clear

00:22:54.120 about what their goals are, although they, of course, use the euphemisms because they understand

00:22:59.100 that saying something like baby killing instead of abortion or reproductive health or even assisted

00:23:04.940 suicide just isn't palatable. And so they'll say things like this. The Hewlett Foundation's

00:23:09.720 population program focuses its grant making in three broad areas, international access to family

00:23:14.920 planning and reproductive health, which is probably most mostly abortion, research, training and

00:23:19.920 advocacy to create sound policy. I would say that that probably is what this assisted suicide bill

00:23:27.220 falls under there. You know, one of their other initiatives, family planning and reproductive health

00:23:31.740 in the United States specifically. So access to abortion, Open Society Foundation, George Source's

00:23:37.920 organization is is the same way. And so you're right. It sounds like a conspiracy, but unfortunately,

00:23:44.900 really all the way since Malthus, there has been this Malthusian fear of overpopulation that people

00:23:52.880 like Bill Gates and like Margaret Sanger and like the Hewlett Foundation and George Soros and many,

00:24:02.860 many other very rich and powerful people, specifically in the United States, they have really acted on that

00:24:08.780 fear of overpopulation and have pushed things like abortion and assisted suicide. That just happens to be

00:24:14.320 true. It sounds conspiratorial, but it's frighteningly true. Absolutely. And, you know, one of their

00:24:21.260 documents on the population program says explicitly we have two complementary goals. And I'll paraphrase a

00:24:27.300 little bit, but they basically say, you know, to empower women's reproductive rights, to have the

00:24:31.940 freedom and the number of kids they want. And then the second goal is to reduce population growth to,

00:24:37.820 you know, what they call a sustainable level. And it just so happens in their perspective that these two are

00:24:43.180 complementary, that women don't want a lot of kids. And that just happens to line up with their desire 1.00

00:24:48.920 to have a lot fewer people in the world. So it would be very inconvenient if it turned out that women 1.00

00:24:53.740 actually do want kids, they just don't feel empowered to have them or in a position or in a

00:24:58.260 circumstance to have them. It would be very inconvenient if there were lots of old people who had nothing to 1.00

00:25:03.240 do with reproductive rights, but who still, you know, emit carbon or, you know, eat food or take up

00:25:10.380 resources or, you know, use our time and money. And so ultimately, when you look at their stuff,

00:25:15.820 it's not just they make it very clear, this is not just about human rights, even, you know,

00:25:20.660 even under their definition of human rights, they've made it clear that a separate sort of

00:25:25.600 criterion and goal for them is the reduction of population, even aside from that. And they try to

00:25:31.120 say that these are just two sides of the same coin. But that obviously depends on some dubious

00:25:36.160 empirical claims and and on some wishful thinking on their part.

00:25:40.100 Yeah, you are a Christian pro-life doctor in the UK. Do you feel alone in your fight,

00:25:47.600 not only for the dignity of the unborn, but the dignity of people who are dying imminently?

00:25:53.380 Or do you feel like there are more doctors than we see who align with you?

00:26:00.260 We're pretty lonely on the abortion fight. I'll be honest, there are not many of us in that one.

00:26:05.060 On this one, we've actually been pleasantly surprised. There's huge, huge opposition to

00:26:09.240 this among doctors. So our population has always been largely in favor of euthanasia because they

00:26:15.040 just haven't looked into it. It's quite, you know, appealing, intuitive thought that we just

00:26:19.880 look after people by ending their suffering. But those who are actually familiar, the politicians

00:26:25.600 who've read about it, the doctors and so on, are much, much more opposed to it. So if you look at

00:26:30.900 the opinion polls for the palliative care doctors, the ones who know most about end of life care,

00:26:36.380 about suffering in the final few days and weeks, about coercion, about social dynamics, about 90%

00:26:43.480 of palliative care doctors in this country are opposed to legalizing euthanasia, which is really,

00:26:49.080 really striking. So they've been very forcefully against it. The Muslim groups have been very against

00:26:54.220 it. The communists and socialists have been very against it. So about 40% of our socialist party

00:27:00.560 in government voted against it, including most of the far left people, most of the people with the

00:27:06.740 sort of, you know, impressive lefty credentials. Yeah. A lot of the, you know, a lot of people who

00:27:13.180 are totally not conservative, not religious at all. JK Rowling is another example. You know,

00:27:17.840 she's conservative on the trans issue, but she's otherwise just a standard kind of liberal feminist 1.00

00:27:22.480 person. She was retweeting me this week. She retweeted me twice. And that does not normally

00:27:27.860 happen. I don't normally get JK Rowling retweeting me on abortion. And so we've seen that there's

00:27:33.700 actually a lot of opposition, particularly among, really among anyone who's just looked into it.

00:27:38.440 I think most people instinctively feel some sympathy for euthanasia because they just want to,

00:27:44.980 you know, help ease suffering. That's, you know, where compassion can lead you initially.

00:27:48.900 And then almost everyone who actually looks into it and knows the reality ends up turning against

00:27:54.520 it. And so we're fortunate that in this country, we have a lot of politicians on the left and the

00:27:58.520 right, a lot of doctors, a lot of disability rights groups, all of whom have been really,

00:28:04.320 really passionately against this. And we hope that they continue and hopefully are successful.

00:28:08.820 Yes. I saw someone who identifies as a Marxist on X this week saying that she has come to realize

00:28:15.780 over time that euthanasia is a crime against humanity. And I appreciated that. And I'm trying

00:28:21.900 to understand that from her ideological perspective. Obviously, you and I share the belief that we are

00:28:27.820 made in the Imago Dei and we have innate worth and therefore assisted suicide is always wrong. But

00:28:34.500 I'm guessing it has something to do with understanding the imbalanced power dynamics at play,

00:28:40.660 that even if someone isn't explicitly coerced, someone who is socially isolated in a vulnerable

00:28:45.960 position being told by someone in a white coat that this would make their life better,

00:28:51.580 that is a form of coercion and manipulation. And there are simply no possible safeguards against

00:28:58.100 something like that. And that is too serious for us to allow. What is your thought about how this will

00:29:05.920 end up? Do you think that all of the different kinds of people who are coming out in opposition

00:29:11.080 to this bill will be able to put a stop to it? I really hope so. And we have a chance. So our

00:29:18.100 parliament is 80 percent left wing. So it's overwhelmingly left wing. They should be able to pass anything.

00:29:25.160 And yet it was only about 50 percent to 40 percent in this vote on Friday. And so it was actually

00:29:31.420 relatively close. It was about 50 votes because we have a huge parliament. And we've calculated that

00:29:37.260 if we add up all the parliamentarians who voted just to continue further debates, but were not

00:29:43.820 necessarily committed to supporting it fully, then we can actually win this in the final vote. It's an

00:29:50.120 uphill battle, but it is possible. As I said, we've got a lot of people on our side from across the

00:29:54.820 political spectrum. We also have challenges that some of the conservatives have not been great. So

00:29:59.920 our conservative party leader, Kemi Badenoch, used to be a patron of conservatives for choice.

00:30:06.960 You know, she was a patron of a pro euthanasia charity. She came out in this case against it,

00:30:13.140 but only very late with a few weeks to go after most of the leftist politicians had already come

00:30:18.220 out against it. And so even people who might be thought to be more robust, you know, solid leaders,

00:30:24.740 there's been a lot of excitement about her being anti-woke. But the reality is that even people like her

00:30:29.740 just do not have a robust conservative vision of society or robust values that can really help.

00:30:36.700 And so as well as sort of winning over a few more of the socialists and left-wing people,

00:30:42.240 we also have to do a better job, I think, convincing the conservative party and their leaders that this

00:30:47.680 is something that is really, really important, that it's non-negotiable, and that, you know, this

00:30:52.780 actually matters to conservatives and that they're not really authoritative, credible conservatives if

00:30:58.480 they even consider the idea of something like this. Yeah. Okay. Quickly, how can people over here

00:31:05.080 in the U.S. support you guys? I think, you know, making a fuss about it. You know, we've seen that

00:31:12.320 there's been a lot of times where conversations in the U.K. pick up from the U.S., often from celebrities

00:31:18.060 or politicians. Sometimes that's negatively. You know, there are some politicians that most British

00:31:23.220 people are not huge fans of who tend to sort of react in a sort of backlash fashion, too. But I

00:31:29.560 think anything that raises awareness, I think if we had key conservative or any, to be honest, any

00:31:35.220 leaders in the U.S. speaking about this, I think if people like Elon Musk started speaking about this

00:31:40.820 and raising concerns, then I think it would at least wake people up in the U.K. So we have to be

00:31:46.280 careful. We can't just make any old arguments. But I think we need to have more knowledge from

00:31:50.460 Oregon, what's going on there, more stories from Oregon. We need to have people just raising

00:31:55.360 awareness because the reality is most of this is getting through because the large majority of

00:32:00.860 people in this country just don't know the reality of euthanasia. They don't know what's going on in

00:32:05.680 Canada. They don't know what's going on in Oregon. And really, it's a matter of raising awareness

00:32:10.040 and actually building a public conscientiousness about this. And so anything that contributes to

00:32:17.540 that, whether it's speaking to your U.K. friends or getting high profile people in the U.S. to start

00:32:22.100 speaking about this or just getting more stories from the U.S. or Canada, all of that's really

00:32:26.880 helpful. So we'd love to partner with anyone in the U.S. on that. And hopefully we can beat this

00:32:32.360 together because it's going to come for the U.S. soon as well.

00:32:34.960 Oh, absolutely. Well, thank you so much, Dr. Miller. I really appreciate your voice.

00:32:38.720 Thank you. Thank you.

00:32:45.380 Quick pause to tell you about our next sponsor for the day, and that is Covenant Eyes. Y'all know that

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00:33:53.020 online content by going to CovenantEyes.com. Use code Allie for your first 30 days. Your first 30 days

00:34:00.080 will be free with my code CovenantEyes.com slash Allie code Allie. There are many stories from several

00:34:11.260 countries, whether it's Canada or the U.S. or the Netherlands, where people are suffering and choose to

00:34:21.020 die by suicide just because they are in a little bit of pain. Maybe it's from Lyme disease or maybe

00:34:26.980 it's from allergies or because they are anorexic or bulimic or because they are poor and they can't

00:34:34.360 afford housing because they need some kind of medical treatment that they don't have access to.

00:34:41.400 These are the people that are dying by suicide. And if you don't think this is eventually coming for

00:34:47.320 your kids. I promise you that it is. What do we always say? Children are always the unconsenting

00:34:53.680 subjects of progressive social experiments. In fact, we already see this at the beginning of life.

00:34:58.860 That's what abortion is. It's euthanasia for babies. It's the death penalty for babies. And so this is

00:35:05.060 already happening at the beginning of life when children certainly have no say. I promise you that it will

00:35:11.020 inch its way towards toddlers, towards preteens, towards teens, maybe even preteens and teens who

00:35:19.020 have transitioned, detransitioned, but they've ruined their bodies. They've ruined their fertility. 1.00

00:35:24.020 They can't stand it anymore. They feel trapped in the body that adults allow them to brutalize in the

00:35:29.940 name of being transgender and they will seek to kill themselves. And I would say that's probably 1.00

00:35:34.960 mission accomplished for the nefarious organizations that are behind this movement. All right. I do want

00:35:41.460 to transition to a little bit of a happier story. All right. Because I think we need a little bit of

00:35:47.240 uplifting after all of that, because in the tumult of all of the evil that is occurring in the world,

00:35:54.680 we know that Satan, according to Ephesians 2, is the prince of the power of the air. So he does have

00:35:58.660 some power. He does have some authority. He knows he's going to lose, but he's trying to take as many

00:36:03.560 lives, as many souls, as much joy and as much victory as possible until he gets to that point of

00:36:10.240 ultimate defeat. And yet, what? God's eternal plan of redemption is always going off without a hitch.

00:36:16.480 Even in something as evil as this, he is using the boldness and the courage and the voice of the church,

00:36:21.540 the voice of people like Dr. Miller, to advocate for the beauty of the biblical worldview,

00:36:29.340 the beauty of the existence of the Imago Dei. And I think because of that, because of the darkness

00:36:36.440 that exists, a lot of people are craving light more than ever. A lot of people are saying, okay,

00:36:42.120 I'm tired of waiting around in the darkness. Can someone just tell me that there's light? Can

00:36:47.680 someone just turn the light on for me? Can someone just tell me what is true? Can someone make sense,

00:36:55.120 make order out of this chaos? And that is why I think, according to the Wall Street Journal,

00:37:01.040 Bible sales are up 22% in the United States through the end of October, compared with the

00:37:06.780 same period last year. In comparison, overall U.S. book sale trends rose by less than 1% in the same

00:37:13.720 timeframe. Jeff Crosby is the president of the Evangelical Christian Publishers Association.

00:37:18.820 He says this, people are experiencing anxiety themselves or they're worried for their children and

00:37:22.960 grandchildren. It's related to artificial intelligence, election cycles, and all of that

00:37:28.120 feeds a desire for assurance that we are going to be okay. Amy Simpson, publisher of Tyndale House

00:37:35.480 Publishers Bible Division, says there seems to be a surge in engagement, particularly among members of

00:37:39.460 Gen Z and college students. You have a generation that wants to find things that feel more solid. I think

00:37:47.120 that is absolutely true. And I know that we see a lot of progressivism, a lot of lostness

00:37:52.400 among Generation Z. We've got unprecedented rates of Gen Z that identifies as LGBTQ. But I think those

00:37:59.680 that fall outside of that are even more solid than those that identify as Christians in the millennial

00:38:06.440 and boomer generation because they have been raised in the craziness and the chaos of progressivism.

00:38:11.320 And so they have been able to see in a very concentrated way that that does not have the

00:38:17.040 answer. They've been able to see up close and personal people who try to find love and satisfaction

00:38:25.020 and sexual promiscuity and self-identity and worshiping the God of self and filling themselves

00:38:32.660 with the pleasure of the world. I mean, everything that has been at their fingertips since they were

00:38:37.320 toddlers through the devices that their parents have given them. And they are realizing what all

00:38:44.580 Christians have realized for all of time, that there's something more than this. There's got to

00:38:48.680 be something bigger than this. There's got to be something deeper than this, more solid than this.

00:38:52.900 I also think as the country awakens to the craziness of progressivism and everything that the ideology

00:39:06.320 entails. And as they realize some of the lies about things like abortion or transgenderism or whatever

00:39:14.420 it is, and they start just becoming more conservative, not even more Christian, they start becoming more

00:39:21.140 conservative and then they start picking apart their own belief system, the lies that they've believed,

00:39:26.800 why they have believed them so often that does lead someone towards Christianity. And I've seen it time 0.81

00:39:34.020 in time again. I saw that Candace Cameron Bure made headlines for saying that President Trump's

00:39:39.460 election kind of demonstrates that people are having an awakening of faith. And of course, the

00:39:44.620 people that you would expect to trash that take trashed it, the progressives online. But I think

00:39:52.100 that's absolutely true. That's not to say, and she's not saying, and I've never said that being a Republican

00:39:58.240 and being a conservative is the same thing as being a Christian or that voting for Donald Trump means

00:40:03.760 that you're automatically a Christian. But I do think it means that a lot of people are repudiating

00:40:10.000 at least aspects of the secular progressive ideology. And of course, I believe that conservative

00:40:17.120 politics most naturally flow from a biblical worldview. And so no matter how you get there, whether it's,

00:40:24.400 you know, my preferred route, which is start with the Bible and then work from there, or whether

00:40:29.600 someone just realizes, okay, like conservative politics kind of seem more right, or some of the

00:40:35.980 conservative ideas seem more right, I wonder where they come from. And then that brings them to the

00:40:40.740 Constitution, which brings them to the Declaration of Independence, brings them to the founders, which

00:40:45.540 believed that we have rights that were given to us by a creator whose power and authority

00:40:51.020 transcends that of the government. We're still all realizing the same thing, which is that we were

00:41:00.560 made by God, and his rules are better, and his ways are better. And so I'm very thankful. I'm very thankful

00:41:07.700 for that. According to the New York Times, for the first time in modern American history, young men are now more

00:41:12.800 religious than their female peers. They attend services more often, and are more likely to identify as

00:41:19.120 religious. And of course, I hope that young women catch up to that as well. Let me pause and tell you

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00:42:25.320 I also love that according to the Wall Street Journal, they say sales of Bibles are booming,

00:42:35.500 fueled by first-time buyers and new versions. Publishers attribute a 22% jump in Bible sales

00:42:43.520 this year to rising anxiety, a search for hope, or highly focused marketing and designs. I love that.

00:42:51.360 I love that. I mean, a lot of people have concerns about, you know, different versions of Bibles and

00:42:58.600 things like that. And of course, when it comes to translations, I think that we should use the most

00:43:02.940 accurate possible. But I have no problem with the more beautiful Bibles, the better designed Bibles,

00:43:10.860 the Bibles that are marketed maybe specifically to teens or specifically to women, as long as it is

00:43:16.820 the unfiltered, unadulterated Word of God, and it's getting into people's hands. I think that's

00:43:22.900 beautiful. Or like the wide margin Bible so people can journal. I love my ESV study Bible. If you want

00:43:30.740 to start the Bible for the first time, maybe that's your New Year's resolution. There's no reason to wait

00:43:35.280 until the new year, though. I would just go ahead and do it. Get you an ESV study Bible. You can get it on

00:43:40.840 Amazon. You can get the, you know, fancier versions that are a little more expensive, but you can just

00:43:46.380 get the standard. It's red, white, and black ESV study Bible. That was the version of the Bible that

00:43:52.040 totally changed the game for me. I had a friend who gave that to me when I was, I think it was the

00:43:57.420 summer between my freshman and sophomore year of college. And I had grown up in a Christian home,

00:44:02.360 and I went to a Christian school, went to church, loved the Bible, loved theology. But that was really the

00:44:07.500 first time I started reading the ESV. I grew up reading the NIV as a lot of, you know, Baptists 1.00

00:44:13.080 in the South did, and that was fine. It's just a less exact translation. So the ESV, it really just

00:44:20.320 clicked with my brain, and I was able to memorize Scripture a lot better than I ever had. And the

00:44:26.140 notes and the resources in the ESV study Bible gave me so much knowledge and understanding of what I was

00:44:32.960 reading. So I really encourage you to get an ESV study Bible. Get a copy of Systematic Theology

00:44:39.240 by Wayne Gruda. Maybe ask for that for Christmas. I also love a keyword study Bible that comes with

00:44:46.540 the original Greek and Hebrew, and so it doesn't tell you the exact original Greek and Hebrew of

00:44:54.380 every word of every chapter, but just keywords that really helps me in my study as well. Another

00:45:00.380 supplement that I would encourage you to get is Ethics for a Brave New World. Ethics for a Brave New

00:45:07.840 World. That also has helped shape a lot of my conclusions when it comes to things like the death

00:45:14.320 penalty, when it comes to IVF and surrogacy, just really challenged my thinking and clarified my

00:45:21.340 thinking on a lot of those issues. And so I would say, like, if you want a great starter pack for the

00:45:26.540 Christian worldview and seeing the world from a Christian perspective, that would be a great way

00:45:30.640 to go. I'm always going to recommend C.S. Lewis, C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity, and Screwtape Letters. 0.69

00:45:38.720 Those are the first two that I would recommend as well. I mean, there are just, there are so, so many

00:45:43.900 others that could really be helpful for you. But for me, when I look back, still those resources help me a

00:45:52.100 lot. But when I look back to really digging into my faith at the beginning part of college,

00:45:57.360 those were the resources that helped me the most. All right, let's talk about, speaking of

00:46:04.620 Christianity and speaking of biblical truth, I want to talk about one other story, and it has to do with

00:46:11.120 John Piper. I'm trying to decide, do I want to do the last ad now or do I want to wait? Okay, let's just

00:46:16.180 knock the last ad out of the way because I do have one more ad, and then we'll get to this John Piper

00:46:19.960 story. And the last ad of the day, I know it's kind of close together, but we've got five today,

00:46:25.140 and so that's just how it works, is our last ad is from Patriot Mobile, and that is America's

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00:47:08.020 Okay, I am so thankful for John Piper's take on something called pronoun politeness. I recently

00:47:19.400 did a segment where I was disagreeing with John Piper about his take on Biden versus Trump,

00:47:25.540 Kamala versus Trump, his take on the election, but I've also said how much I am grateful for John

00:47:32.440 Piper and his positive influence on my theology and understanding so many things. I've listened

00:47:37.740 to several episodes of Ask Pastor John, and in a recent episode, he was asked about so-called

00:47:45.500 pronoun politeness, and that is the idea that has been propagated by people like Preston Sprinkle and

00:47:51.040 others that even if you disagree with transgenderism, that to be polite or maybe even some would say to

00:47:58.760 win someone over for the gospel, you can still call a woman who identifies as a man he or a man

00:48:05.700 who identifies as a woman she. This is the same thing that progressives say, except they would say

00:48:10.960 you do it because they really are what this person, you know, what they claim that they are, and so

00:48:16.060 it's a matter of respect. It's a matter of dignity, whereas I would say, no, that's lying to them,

00:48:22.160 and God made them male or female, and God loves them more than I do, and I don't think I can

00:48:26.680 love them well by disagreeing with God. Who is love? And John Piper, in his very eloquent way,

00:48:33.940 he speaks out against pronoun politeness. The question originally was, during a recent training

00:48:40.740 session, a ministry that this question asker is a part of asked us to consider using gender

00:48:46.120 pronoun hospitality on our local campus. I wonder what ministry that was. I actually don't know.

00:48:52.240 I actually really do wonder, but I kind of have an idea. A suggestion that has now come before the

00:48:58.160 elders of the church to see if we will allow our members and those we support locally who work on

00:49:03.120 the campus to do so. The argument is that there are times when, for the sake of evangelism,

00:49:07.200 one may decide to call a person by their chosen gender if such an act removes a possible barrier

00:49:11.700 in sharing the gospel. Pastor John, what should I do? Piper stated that the entire idea of,

00:49:18.100 quote unquote, gender pronoun hospitality is a misleading slogan and that connecting the beautiful

00:49:23.120 biblical word hospitality with the unbiblical concept of gender pronoun is unhelpful and that

00:49:30.460 we ought to be hospitable, but we ought not to be affirming of pronouns that designate a destructive

00:49:38.380 choice and a false view of reality. It is possible to be hospitable and honest. He said the very use of

00:49:47.160 the word gender is a compromise with sinful views of reality. I think that we should use the word 1.00

00:49:51.640 sex everywhere. I have always disagreed with that. I'm open to hearing his argument. I don't think

00:49:58.300 that's true. When you look at the etymology of gender, gender and sex seem to me to be interchangeable.

00:50:04.240 But he says, I think using the word gender where the right word is sex is like using the word

00:50:09.120 marriage for a relationship between two men or two women. It is not marriage. It is so-called marriage.

00:50:13.920 In our present context, maleness and femaleness are sexes, not genders. Again, I disagree with that.

00:50:23.760 I think they're one in the same. And actually, I think separating the two or saying that they are

00:50:27.420 two different things is where we get into this mess. But I'm sure he has thought through his

00:50:33.480 position thoroughly. He says that a better way to evangelize to someone who's claiming to be

00:50:40.060 the opposite gender would be like this. He says, I know you intend to change your sex, 1.00

00:50:46.140 but you are my friend. And I think there's a better way. Jesus has a better way forward for you.

00:50:51.400 He's full of grace. He's full of forgiveness. May I share that with you? That's a legitimate

00:50:56.820 evangelism, Piper says, from the get-go. And it might be a good way.

00:51:03.540 Okay. So he goes through why you shouldn't use pronoun politeness. I won't articulate all of

00:51:08.960 these reasons in full. I encourage you to go listen to this episode. But one, he says that it

00:51:13.880 defies God. Self-conception as male or female should be defined by God's holy purposes in creation.

00:51:20.660 Number two, it involves living a lie. A woman cannot become a man, nor a man a woman. Number three, 1.00

00:51:29.900 being a man or a woman is not like being left-handed or right-handed. It goes far deeper

00:51:33.500 and touches the depths of our created nature. Number four, it regularly leads to destructive

00:51:37.980 and irreversible surgeries and treatments. Number five, when that happens, it destroys the God-designed

00:51:43.540 potential of procreation and will bring sooner or later profound and suicidal regret. It expresses

00:51:51.740 the deeply anti-God, this number six, commitment to human autonomy over against the will of God.

00:51:58.780 I will decide the essence of my being, not God, is essentially what this would be saying.

00:52:04.320 It contributes to the cultural disorder of sexuality that tends to undermine God's 0.95

00:52:08.260 pattern from male and female and confuses and destabilizes our young people. It overlooks

00:52:15.000 alternative ways forward that take seriously a person's sexual confusion or rebellion. Nine,

00:52:20.460 it is the prelude to future perversions. Ten, therefore, the greatest possible care should be taken

00:52:27.300 before. One gives any impression of approving or even being mildly disagreeable toward so-called

00:52:35.940 transgenderism. I think that is a perfect response, and I am so grateful for his clarity.

00:52:43.380 Pastors, remember and take this as an example, clarity is kindness. You are not kinder than God.

00:52:50.820 You are not nicer than God. You are not more loving or more compassionate than God, and therefore,

00:52:56.460 the kindest and most loving thing that we can always do is agree with God, and he tells us what

00:53:02.660 we are right there in Genesis 127. It is our obligation, as we love God and love others, to

00:53:10.180 echo his clear words there. All right, that's all we've got time for today. We will be back here tomorrow.

00:53:15.340 We will be back here tomorrow.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - December 03, 2024

Ep 1108 ｜ UK’s Assisted Suicide Bill, Booming Bible Sales & John Piper Scorches Pronouns ｜ Guest： Dr. Calum Miller

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