Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1114 ｜ To the Girl Who Slept with 100 Men： It's Not Too Late

00:00:00.780 An OnlyFans model has gone viral for completing a challenge of sleeping with 100 men in a day,

00:00:07.920 but the real story is her very sad and broken response to what she did.

00:00:15.300 Also, we are talking about a baby billionaire project, a disgraced business mogul who has

00:00:22.780 decided to employ dozens of egg sellers and surrogates to create 12 plus children.

00:00:31.600 We will look at the laws that have allowed him to do this.

00:00:36.200 And also, I will finally give you an update on the Daystar scandal.

00:00:41.520 This episode is brought to you by our friends at CrowdHealth.

00:00:44.540 Go to joincrowdhealth.com.

00:00:46.340 Use code ALI at checkout.

00:00:47.580 That's joincrowdhealth.com, code ALI.

00:00:52.780 Hey guys, welcome to Relatable.

00:01:01.380 Happy Thursday.

00:01:02.320 Hope everyone is having a wonderful week so far.

00:01:05.360 This is the last new episode that we are recording of the year.

00:01:11.200 We will have episodes coming out over the next few weeks.

00:01:14.640 New episodes that we've already pre-recorded, but those are going to be more evergreen topics.

00:01:19.520 Still super important, compelling, interesting stuff that we'll be bringing you, especially

00:01:24.580 the interviews.

00:01:25.500 But today will be the last day of the year that we are talking about the news.

00:01:29.420 We are going on a three-week break until the new year, and we're super excited about it.

00:01:35.980 It has been a big and fun year for Relatable, and I will talk about that a little bit more

00:01:42.660 at the end of the episode, just as a thank you to you guys, a thank you to the Lord as we reflect

00:01:47.520 back on everything this year has brought.

00:01:49.520 But there are a few things that we've got to cover that I've been wanting to cover for a while now.

00:01:54.520 One is this really sad story, and if you're listening with your kids, this is definitely

00:01:59.800 RX rated.

00:02:01.280 This is not one that I would chat about with your teens right now, probably not, or listen

00:02:08.460 to if you are taking your kids to school, and that is the story about this young woman

00:02:14.400 named Lily Phillips.

00:02:16.020 She is 23 years old, and she did this experiment where she decided that she was going to have 0.88

00:02:22.240 sex with 101 men in 24 hours.

00:02:26.160 Now, why are we talking about this?

00:02:28.480 Why are we talking about this right now?

00:02:30.780 There has been a documentary just released about her experience, and the clips from that

00:02:36.300 have gone viral.

00:02:37.320 The documentary itself is not really explicit.

00:02:40.440 She is just talking about why she did it and her response, the feelings that she had after

00:02:46.100 she did this.

00:02:46.840 And the reason this is important to talk about is because there is something very spiritual

00:02:53.000 about it, very spiritually dark about it.

00:02:55.720 You can see in her eyes this woman who claims that she's just like a man. 1.00

00:03:00.160 She loves sex just like men do. 0.99

00:03:02.660 She thinks of her body and other men's bodies in the same way men think about bodies. 0.96

00:03:07.300 She's in sex, and she is totally unaffected by sexual relations, and she can do whatever 1.00

00:03:14.520 she wants as many times as she wants to, and she is going to feel great about it.

00:03:18.820 It turns out that is not how she felt afterwards.

00:03:22.600 And her reaction to her own actions, I think, paint a really sad picture of life outside of God's parameters for human sexuality.

00:03:35.600 And so that is the lesson here.

00:03:37.360 And I just also want to share the gospel with Lily and with anyone who finds themselves in even a remotely similar position or mindset as her.

00:03:51.220 So it shouldn't surprise you that Lily creates content for OnlyFans, and she wanted to, I guess, do this as some sort of challenge.

00:04:01.360 And she knew that it would create a lot of controversy.

00:04:06.300 It would get a lot of reaction.

00:04:07.720 And so it was all for content and views.

00:04:09.800 The documentary about this 24-hour escapade has over 190 million views on Axe, over a million views on YouTube.

00:04:19.740 The clip from the documentary that went viral last week shows Lily talking about it and fighting back tears.

00:04:28.000 So here's the viral clip that has really sparked this conversation about what she did on social media.

00:04:34.360 It's SOT6.

00:04:35.100 It's not for the weak girls, if I'm honest.

00:04:38.580 It was hard.

00:04:42.360 I don't know if I'd recommend it.

00:04:44.460 Why not?

00:04:45.000 I think if you're a different type of girl, it's very like...

00:04:49.220 It's kind of like being a problem in a sense of, like, it's just a different...

00:04:53.960 feeling.

00:04:58.120 I don't know how to explain it, like...

00:04:59.960 It's not like just having sex with someone.

00:05:03.840 Yeah, yeah. 0.87

00:05:05.100 Just one in, one out.

00:05:06.020 Like, it feels intense.

00:05:09.300 Like, more intense than you thought it might.

00:05:12.540 Definitely.

00:05:15.240 Sorry.

00:05:15.600 It's okay.

00:05:17.140 Just take a take.

00:05:17.960 Yeah, one minute.

00:05:18.520 Yeah, take a take.

00:05:20.380 So if you're watching that, you can see her fighting back tears.

00:05:23.780 She can't even talk about it.

00:05:26.080 I mean, this is something that she signed up for. 0.99

00:05:28.600 She took applications for this, to have sex with these 101 men. 0.98

00:05:35.500 This was something that she acted like she was really excited about, grateful for the 0.97

00:05:39.420 opportunity to do.

00:05:40.640 And now, as she is recounting it, she can't even keep back her tears.

00:05:46.160 She says that it was intense.

00:05:49.120 She says that it was overwhelming, that you have to be a certain kind of girl.

00:05:53.960 You have to be tough to go through something like this.

00:05:56.400 But why would that be the case if sex is really just touching bodies in an exchange of bodily

00:06:03.180 fluids?

00:06:03.700 If that's all sex is, then it really shouldn't elicit this kind of emotional reaction.

00:06:10.920 She wouldn't have this kind of emotional reaction if she gave 100 high fives that day, if she

00:06:15.860 gave 100 hugs, even if she gave 101 kisses that day.

00:06:22.160 She wouldn't be brimming with tears.

00:06:24.380 She wouldn't be overflowing with this kind of response.

00:06:29.820 But she knows, as much as she wants to deny it, that sex is different.

00:06:36.480 Like, sex is not just any kind of interaction.

00:06:41.680 Sex is intimate in not only the physical sense, but the emotional and the spiritual sense, especially

00:06:49.860 for women.

00:06:51.140 Women don't compartmentalize the same way that men do. 1.00

00:06:54.560 We don't have the same kind of drive that men do.

00:06:57.900 We don't have the same mentality about sex in our bodies as men do.

00:07:02.780 And when it comes to sexuality, women are much more vulnerable than men are.

00:07:09.200 And for her to own up to that and realize that, of course, would not only shatter her worldview,

00:07:14.600 but it would really change her ability to sell her body for money. 1.00

00:07:19.900 Once you realize that prostitution is a lot deeper and darker than just offering a service to

00:07:27.380 people that want something, but it's giving away a very integral part of who you are, that's

00:07:35.660 really hard to reckon with, even for the most adamant and defensive OnlyFans model.

00:07:42.980 We'll get into the rest of her views on sex and what I think this means and how we can

00:07:51.640 respond to this from a biblical perspective in a second.

00:07:54.260 But let me pause.

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00:09:26.500 So this is according to Daily Mail.

00:09:33.140 She tells a little bit in the documentary about her story and she says that she wasn't someone

00:09:40.840 who was promiscuous growing up.

00:09:43.440 She has a close relationship with her parents, which I find very surprising.

00:09:48.900 And actually her mother is her finance manager, one of eight people employed by Lily to support

00:09:56.400 her business.

00:09:57.820 She says that she wasn't really into sex at all until she went to college.

00:10:02.500 Red flag there for parents.

00:10:04.580 She even wanted to wait until marriage at one point.

00:10:08.160 She used to think that sex was a special thing until she did it. 0.93

00:10:11.860 And she says she realized it's no big deal.

00:10:14.020 Here's top four.

00:10:14.580 So a lot of the words are kind of bleeped out there and they do that when they upload

00:10:36.260 videos on X.

00:10:37.760 I don't know if they're also bleeped out on YouTube, but that's because when there's like

00:10:44.420 explicit words like that or sexual words like that, sometimes YouTube or X will flag the

00:10:49.160 content, demote it, take it down.

00:10:52.280 And so if you're listening to this, it might be kind of hard to understand what she's talking

00:10:55.300 about. 0.92

00:10:55.640 But she said, you know, she had sex. 1.00

00:10:57.240 She realized it wasn't very special.

00:10:59.500 She started in OnlyFans with what she describes as more mild content, I guess, when she was in

00:11:04.920 when she was in college.

00:11:06.820 So she says, you know, in her swimsuit, whatever.

00:11:09.760 And then she became more promiscuous in her dating life.

00:11:13.140 She decided to turn that promiscuity into a business. 1.00

00:11:17.520 She told Daily Mail, I was sort of selling sex to guys on my nights out without making

00:11:21.980 any money. 0.54

00:11:23.160 Huh?

00:11:23.580 Well, that's not really selling sex. 0.99

00:11:25.020 That's just having sex. 0.97

00:11:26.300 So I thought I might as well charge for it. 0.59

00:11:30.420 And, you know, that just is the nature of sin.

00:11:33.840 You start out with something that you think is maybe just a little risque and you get affirmation.

00:11:39.800 You get money, you get attention, you get acceptance, you get popularity, things that

00:11:45.480 in our flesh, everyone craves.

00:11:48.120 And the more you get that, the easier it is to push it a little further and a little further.

00:11:54.020 And because you get that dopamine hit, you kind of get that high of affirmation when you get

00:12:01.600 money or when you get a like or when you're told that you're beautiful or awesome or that

00:12:05.540 someone loves you or is attracted to you, the conviction of sin that she may have once

00:12:12.560 had, even if she wasn't a Christian, she clearly had some kind of conviction, maybe just because

00:12:21.080 the law of God is written on all of our hearts, that sex should be reserved at the very least 1.00

00:12:26.560 for a special relationship.

00:12:28.880 But as she let more of herself go and as she got attention and affirmation for doing so,

00:12:34.400 that conviction was downgraded.

00:12:38.580 Throughout the documentary, she makes self-deprecating jokes that she's really only good for one thing,

00:12:45.100 that whoever marries her is unfortunate and will have to be the kind of guy that loans

00:12:52.860 her out to other men.

00:12:54.360 Here's top five.

00:12:56.480 And do you think your partner one day will be someone from the industry most likely or?

00:13:01.880 Yeah.

00:13:02.520 I talk about this a lot with my parents because that's the one thing I guess they worry about

00:13:06.480 is like, who do you ever find a boyfriend?

00:13:10.320 Yeah.

00:13:10.560 Um, but there's so many guys out in the world. 1.00

00:13:14.340 I think, you know, one poor bastard's got to marry me. 0.96

00:13:18.280 I rather think it's going to be someone from the industry or someone who is into, um, lending 0.99

00:13:25.100 me out.

00:13:26.440 Lending you out?

00:13:27.340 Yeah.

00:13:27.800 Yeah.

00:13:28.520 Hmm.

00:13:29.100 So she talks about herself like an object.

00:13:32.260 And of course, I mean, that's how she treats herself in relation to other guys. 0.70

00:13:37.160 That's what she has built herself as, as just an object of pleasure. 0.97

00:13:43.080 Now, unfortunately, in this world in which we have constructed this consent-based morality

00:13:49.660 paradigm that says, as long as someone consents to something, then our disapproval is unjustified

00:13:58.040 and, um, criminalizing something that someone consents to, as long as it's not quote unquote

00:14:06.000 hurting someone else is certainly off the table.

00:14:10.000 But consent is not the only factor.

00:14:12.860 We've talked about this a lot.

00:14:14.040 Consent is not the only factor in determining whether something is right or wrong.

00:14:20.620 Now, it could be the only factor in determining morality if you are a godless moral relativist.

00:14:28.040 Because then you're serving the god of self and the god of self will achieve whatever it

00:14:34.160 wants at whatever the cost.

00:14:36.060 There is no higher transcendent power.

00:14:39.080 There is no absolute truth.

00:14:40.460 There are no universal values or objective virtues to which you are subscribing.

00:14:47.700 And so you do you and do what makes you happy really becomes your religious dogma under

00:14:55.120 which everything is justified.

00:14:58.340 But the reality is, is that we are not gods.

00:15:02.540 There is a transcendent power.

00:15:05.040 Even let's just say for a second that you and I can't agree on what that transcendent power

00:15:10.300 is.

00:15:10.680 Obviously, I believe and it is the god of the Bible, the alpha and the omega, Jesus Christ

00:15:18.860 himself, three in one, father, son, holy spirit, who created all of this.

00:15:24.760 And we see exactly who we are, whose we are, what our purpose is, what we are made for really

00:15:30.800 in the first 11 chapters of the Bible.

00:15:32.700 But we get a lot of that in the very first chapter of the Bible in Genesis 127 that we

00:15:38.180 as human beings were made male and female in God's image.

00:15:40.660 We were made to come together in marriage as one man and one woman for sex to be exclusive 0.97

00:15:46.200 to that union and for ideally that to create children, to be fruitful and to multiply.

00:15:55.080 And anything outside of that structure, that definition of holy sexuality in marriage will

00:16:03.700 lead to brokenness.

00:16:05.220 It will lead ultimately to sadness.

00:16:07.980 It will lead to further sin.

00:16:11.900 It will negatively affect not only the people that are breaking that definition of marriage

00:16:17.400 and that union, but also the children who are affected by that sin and by that brokenness.

00:16:25.320 But say we can't even agree on that.

00:16:27.480 Say we can just agree that somewhere out there, there is a higher moral order because of some

00:16:33.140 higher power that transcends all of us.

00:16:36.480 We should at least agree that everything we do, every law we enact, has to get closer

00:16:43.400 to that.

00:16:45.080 We can debate what those universal morals are.

00:16:50.000 We can debate what absolute truth actually is.

00:16:54.400 But let us at least agree that that exists and try to get closer to it in our laws, in our

00:17:02.180 practices, in what our society looks like, and we can see the existence of a better way and

00:17:09.660 a worse way across cultures, throughout, you know, throughout societies, across different

00:17:16.360 individuals when we see the ramifications of going outside of what clearly should be.

00:17:22.660 And what I mean by that is, again, when people step outside of what sex is meant to be, what

00:17:28.420 marriage is meant to be, there is always brokenness.

00:17:31.640 And we see it in this young woman who claims to think that sex is nothing special. 0.74

00:17:38.280 And yet here we see her breaking down emotionally because she knows it is.

00:17:43.880 The crazy thing about this, again, is how much she disregards her own value and her own body.

00:17:51.160 And that, of course, is exactly what Satan wants.

00:17:54.180 Satan hates the body.

00:17:55.740 He hates us because we are made in God's image, because we are recipients of God's grace,

00:18:01.300 his love, his redemption through Christ.

00:18:04.400 And Satan is in a battle, not just for our souls, but for our bodies.

00:18:08.680 Christianity loves the body.

00:18:12.280 We see that throughout scripture, not only that we're made in God's image, but we worship

00:18:16.080 a God made flesh.

00:18:17.960 There will be a resurrection of the bodies.

00:18:19.500 We will be given new bodies.

00:18:21.120 Satan hates the body. 0.84

00:18:22.300 And that is why he convinces people through sex to objectify themselves and to degrade their 0.98

00:18:27.820 own bodies.

00:18:28.720 Here's how she thinks of herself, not only as an object, but an object in which a hundred

00:18:34.180 men who were basically unvetted could use and abuse as they see fit.

00:18:39.160 These a hundred men were chosen using no filtering system, not even a criminal background check.

00:18:44.240 They simply had to send in a photo with their ID.

00:18:48.020 The men traveled from all over.

00:18:49.600 Two flew in from America.

00:18:50.880 So she's in the UK, as you can tell.

00:18:53.000 One from Sweden, another from France.

00:18:55.320 She said that the men spanned generations.

00:18:57.840 That's not even something I was thinking about.

00:18:59.560 I figured these would all be young men.

00:19:01.180 I don't know why, but she said that the oldest man who, whom she had sex with was in his

00:19:07.480 sixties or seventies.

00:19:08.740 I was looking at some of them thinking you could definitely be my dad.

00:19:12.960 Prior to the encounters, Lily was asked by the interviewer, how she is going to protect

00:19:16.680 herself from STIs, knowing that statistically she will come in contact with infected men and

00:19:21.540 bodily fluids.

00:19:22.360 I was wondering the same thing.

00:19:24.260 Lily said that the men who showed proof of a negative STI test are prioritized to make the

00:19:28.740 cut.

00:19:29.000 However, she acknowledged that there is still significant risk because the men could have

00:19:33.380 come in contact with an STI between the time of the test and their time with Lily.

00:19:38.260 When asked about the possibility of contracting HIV from these bodily fluids, Lily appears to 0.97

00:19:45.120 not have known that HIV can be spread this way.

00:19:48.680 What?

00:19:50.600 What?

00:19:52.100 The documentary interviewer spoke with one of the men after his five minutes with Lily.

00:19:57.280 He flew in from Switzerland, spending the equivalent of a thousand dollars to sleep with her.

00:20:01.900 As a longtime fan of hers, he said it was worth it. 0.98

00:20:06.140 So disgusting.

00:20:07.620 And I imagine that some of these men probably like have children, have families. 0.96

00:20:12.600 So after the encounters, she shared that it's not just the physical intimacy of having sex

00:20:19.940 with so many men that made her feel so bad, as we saw in that clip, but also disappointing

00:20:26.440 them by not being able to talk with them or even being interested in doing so.

00:20:31.860 She felt like a robot, she said, disassociated due to the monotony of the act a hundred times

00:20:38.020 over.

00:20:39.220 She said the hard part was conversing with them.

00:20:41.520 And then they'd be like, oh, we only have got two, two or three minutes.

00:20:44.640 And you said that we'd get five minutes.

00:20:47.740 And then Lily says, when you promise something to someone who supports you, it's hard to let

00:20:52.640 them down.

00:20:53.640 So even she is feeling the pull of like relationship and emotional connection with these men.

00:20:59.620 Despite discussing how difficult this was for her, though, almost breaking down in tears,

00:21:05.460 you see the emptiness, the sadness, the brokenness inside her there. 0.99

00:21:09.920 Phillips recently declared that she plans, this is so sad, plans to have sex with a thousand 0.99

00:21:16.000 men in a day. 0.98

00:21:17.540 She hasn't backtracked on this yet.

00:21:19.100 She claims this.

00:21:20.800 We have the picture, the advertisement up.

00:21:23.560 So a thousand men a day.

00:21:24.660 She claims she wants to take on this challenge in January. 0.92

00:21:30.600 A lot of people are questioning how this is mathematically possible.

00:21:34.980 Not to be rude, but I'm not sure that I would ask math questions to someone who didn't know

00:21:39.060 HIV was spread through sex.

00:21:42.640 For reference, there are 86,400 seconds in a 24 hour day, which equates to 8.64 seconds per

00:21:50.480 person for 24 hours straight.

00:21:52.960 So she says she dreamed this up with her assistant.

00:21:56.600 I can't wait.

00:21:57.240 It's very exciting.

00:21:58.500 It will be a world record, a real challenge.

00:22:01.260 Ideally, we'll do it in a big warehouse with two doors.

00:22:03.760 I'm hoping a couple of seconds each at most and then on their way.

00:22:09.120 Like, do you know what seconds are?

00:22:11.240 I don't know how that is.

00:22:13.600 I don't know how that is possible.

00:22:16.180 I don't I don't really care.

00:22:18.500 I'm sad for this woman.

00:22:21.040 Yes, she is choosing to do it.

00:22:22.360 I'm not saying she is a victim.

00:22:24.880 It doesn't seem like she is being abused or that she's being coerced.

00:22:29.100 That is certainly a part of the story that is being left out.

00:22:32.020 It seems like she's making this decision.

00:22:33.840 But again, that's what sin and deception does.

00:22:37.580 It just keeps going.

00:22:39.700 I mean, Satan always starts out with just a little bit to Eve.

00:22:44.000 It's just a bite.

00:22:45.700 No, you will not surely die.

00:22:47.420 You will just be more like God, knowing the difference between good and evil.

00:22:52.760 Well, the effect of her decision wasn't just a bite of the forbidden fruit.

00:22:58.500 It wasn't just that she knew the difference between good and evil.

00:23:02.120 Immediately, the consequences of her disobedience, of worshiping the God of self rather than the God of Scripture were very apparent.

00:23:10.860 And we have been dealing with the bloody aftermath of that decision since the beginning, since the fall.

00:23:20.100 And so this is just what sin does.

00:23:24.520 Once it lets itself into your life, into your heart just a little bit, it starts out secret.

00:23:30.180 It starts out small.

00:23:31.680 It starts out as just a little lie, just a tiny compromise.

00:23:36.580 Once it wedges itself into your life, unless you immediately eradicate it, it will take root.

00:23:44.780 And it will convince you to do more and more.

00:23:50.480 And that seems to be what's happened here.

00:23:53.000 We've got more on this in just a second.

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00:24:42.980 There's some good commentary on this, incisive commentary online about the first clip that we played going around.

00:24:54.460 Lois McClatchy Miller, she does PR for Alliance Defending Freedom.

00:24:58.720 She said,

00:24:59.080 Lily Phillips reflects on her sadness after sleeping with 100 guys in one day.

00:25:03.040 One, she's responsible for her own behavior in the sixth stunt. 0.96

00:25:05.820 Two, it's also clear OnlyFans have turned women into plastic dolls.

00:25:09.560 And the models themselves have bought this heartbreaking lie.

00:25:14.620 It's absolutely true.

00:25:16.740 They've objectified themselves.

00:25:18.260 But just because someone is doing it to themselves doesn't mean that it's okay.

00:25:24.420 The standard of whatever makes you happy, as long as you consent to it, there are a lot of things that people consent to that are still morally wrong.

00:25:33.200 Because absolute morality, absolute and universal truth does exist.

00:25:38.260 And people are made in the image of God.

00:25:40.980 We're different than plants.

00:25:41.880 We're different than animals.

00:25:42.940 We're certainly different than objects.

00:25:44.680 We have a soul.

00:25:45.560 We have emotional needs.

00:25:47.200 We want to be loved.

00:25:48.740 We want to be taken care of.

00:25:50.920 And these women, of course, are seeking love and affirmation in all of the wrong places. 1.00

00:25:55.280 But when your financial situation is tied to whatever you're doing, it becomes really easy to justify it, whether it is selling yourself for sex or whether it's corruption, whether it's bribery, whether it's fraud, whatever it is, it becomes really easy to say, well, God is clearly blessing this or clearly it's fine because this is how I make my money.

00:26:16.780 And she's trying to convince herself that this is a job like any other job.

00:26:20.460 I mean, this is also like the whole progressive push for legalizing prostitution.

00:26:27.000 They say like sex work is work.

00:26:29.740 It's the same thing as accounting.

00:26:31.960 I don't know if Lily Phillips has, you know, repeated that phrase, but that's basically what she's trying to convince herself and others of.

00:26:38.380 Like this is just like being an accountant or being a dentist.

00:26:41.220 Look, I promise you that there is no accountant that comes home and is trying to like emotionally and spiritually reconcile with like with crunchy numbers all day.

00:26:52.200 Like, oh, my gosh, that those were 100 numbers in 24 hours.

00:26:55.940 How did I do that?

00:26:56.960 Like no one is no one in another kind of job is thinking that way.

00:27:02.140 It affects you.

00:27:03.000 I've heard people, I've heard progressives, even people who consider themselves progressive Christians try to downgrade the specialness, the uniqueness of sex and so-called sex work, a.k.a. prostitution by likening it to other actions.

00:27:18.380 But they lie because if someone came up and I don't know, like gave them a noogie, that would be, you know, on the street, a stranger comes up and like pulls your hair or like pushes you on the shoulder.

00:27:35.100 That would be kind of violating.

00:27:36.960 Like you probably would go home and like tell your spouse, like, this was so weird.

00:27:41.300 The stranger came up to me.

00:27:42.560 That was so bizarre.

00:27:43.580 You might even kind of laugh a little bit. 0.96

00:27:45.680 But if someone came up to you and grabbed your genitalia, if someone came up to you and groped you with the same force that someone else came up to you and like pushed you on the shoulder, that would be a much bigger deal. 0.93

00:27:59.560 You would feel a lot more violated. 0.98

00:28:02.080 Even if someone punches you in the face versus someone raping you, they're both assault.

00:28:07.760 But one carries a lot more trauma.

00:28:10.020 And that's not because of some societal stigma or, you know, arbitrary societal standards.

00:28:16.500 That's because sex is sacred. 1.00

00:28:19.800 That's because there is something different about sex.

00:28:22.840 God made it that way.

00:28:24.240 He made it uniquely bonding.

00:28:25.980 It is supposed to be that kind of bonding gift between a man and a woman.

00:28:30.140 But again, when you create that bond outside of that trusting relationship within marriage, there is going to be not only brokenness, but a lot of justification for brokenness and a lot of self-delusion because it feels really bad to feel conviction of sin and to reckon with what you're doing to yourself and your body.

00:28:50.860 Mary Morgan, pop culture commentator at Tim Cass, she said, I watched the documentary about Lily Phillips, and then she says this was her immediate reaction that posts the clip that we've already played.

00:29:02.780 And she said, in fear of seeming judgmental, the one and only cardinal sin recognized in modern secular culture, nobody in Lily's life stopped her from hitting self-destruct.

00:29:13.400 She will remember the day that nobody stopped her.

00:29:16.120 She will count that as evidence that she is worth nothing more than being used sexually, hence her own, her new record-breaking goal of a thousand. 0.92

00:29:24.320 This is a veiled suicide attempt. 0.89

00:29:27.320 In a way, I think that that is true.

00:29:29.220 Now, maybe there were people in her life who were like, please don't do that.

00:29:33.020 I have no idea.

00:29:34.620 But it does seem like a suicide attempt in a way.

00:29:40.260 Um, several others had similar, uh, commentary on this and, uh, a lot of, uh, there's, I mean, there's a lot of hate out there.

00:29:51.160 And I understand that because she is a grown woman who made her own choices. 1.00

00:29:56.400 There are a lot of people that are using this to say, see, women are awful, which is stupid. 1.00

00:30:02.180 There are obviously men who do similar things. 1.00

00:30:06.080 And there were a hundred men who signed up to have sex with this stranger, not knowing if she had her own STDs.

00:30:13.660 And so there's a lot of degeneracy to go around here.

00:30:17.120 But gosh, I just want Lily to know that you were made by a God who loves you and who cares about you and who cares what happens to you.

00:30:29.960 He cares how you're treated.

00:30:31.300 He cares how you are viewed and he views you as precious, as made in his image.

00:30:39.640 You have a soul, you have a heart, you have innate value.

00:30:44.080 And I don't want you to believe when you wake up and you realize, wow, things could have been different for me.

00:30:52.400 And I don't feel happy and I feel very empty and I feel betrayed by myself and the people in my life.

00:30:58.640 And how long can I go on like this and what's going to happen when I'm no longer young and I'm no longer seen as wanted?

00:31:05.560 Who am I going to be?

00:31:06.640 What is, you know, my worth going to be?

00:31:09.700 Then when you wake up and you realize all of that, you are going to feel like you're too far gone.

00:31:14.980 There will be a time probably when you consider killing yourself.

00:31:18.440 And that unfortunately is the consequence of going so far outside of like what is meant for us.

00:31:26.920 But I just want you to know, like, you are not too far gone.

00:31:31.140 You are not outside of God's grace.

00:31:33.900 You haven't done too much.

00:31:35.840 You're not too dirty.

00:31:37.760 That there is nothing that you can do that will stop you from receiving the grace of God.

00:31:50.100 God's grace covers every kind of sin, every kind of depravity, every kind of mistake.

00:31:57.260 And if you want a new self, if you want a new start, if you want to be made pure, if you want to be made clean, if you want a clean slate, if you want to start over, then you can find that in Jesus Christ.

00:32:14.540 And he will rid you of all of your sins and he will make you new and he will make you clean.

00:32:22.720 And instead of being an enemy of God, which is what you are right now, which is what all of us were apart from Christ, you can be a friend of God and you can be forgiven forever and you can be given a new self and a new way of life.

00:32:38.000 And that is what you will be defined by.

00:32:40.480 And the great thing about Jesus is that when he died for us on the cross, when he, by grace through faith, saved us, he gives us his righteousness because Jesus is the only perfect one who has ever lived.

00:32:54.680 All of us have sinned.

00:32:55.820 We've all fallen short of the glory of God.

00:32:59.360 And Jesus is the only one that could be our perfect sacrifice.

00:33:04.780 And he became that when he died on the cross.

00:33:07.260 And then he rose again three days later.

00:33:09.640 He defeated death.

00:33:10.960 And he says that whoever believes in him doesn't have to die.

00:33:15.660 We don't have to go to hell at the end of our life, but we get to live forever in heaven with him.

00:33:20.200 And not only that, like we get to be liberated from the burden of sin right now.

00:33:24.980 Like you are burdened with sin.

00:33:27.020 You are carrying a very heavy weight trying to find happiness and love in all the wrong places.

00:33:34.020 And you're only going to ever find the satisfaction that you're looking for in the God who made you.

00:33:41.340 And so just know that you're never too far off to turn around, to stop.

00:33:46.460 You're not too far gone.

00:33:47.680 Like it will be worth giving up every bit of money, every follower, every fan, every ounce of fame that you have accumulated by selling your body.

00:33:58.580 It is worth giving that all up to save your soul.

00:34:02.520 And God can do that.

00:34:05.460 And you are very, very, very loved and valued by him.

00:34:10.340 And he showed that to you by sending his own son to die on the cross for your sins.

00:34:15.680 And that is all of us who are Christians, like that is what we are all recipients of.

00:34:21.940 We all see ourselves not as these like perfectly righteous people, but as people who are so messed up and who were so far from God that we needed God to come down and to save us and to give us his righteousness and his perfection.

00:34:37.280 And that's what he did through Christ.

00:34:38.680 And so I just, I just hope that one day someone shares that with Lily and I hope and pray for that testimony, even if we never know about it.

00:34:49.260 Cause I almost don't, I wouldn't even want a testimony like that to be turned into content.

00:34:53.340 Like I just hope that God saves her and he can, he saves to the uttermost.

00:34:58.820 He saves those who are far off, those who are near.

00:35:00.860 And so he can absolutely do that.

00:35:02.640 All right.

00:35:03.140 We've got a couple more interesting stories to touch on.

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00:36:24.540 Speaking of babies, there is this fascinating but also very disturbing story that I saw on Bloomberg a few days ago.

00:36:37.420 It's titled How a Billionaire's Baby Project ensnared dozens of women and it shows really the lack of legal parameters and regulations that we have around creating children in the United States.

00:36:54.900 I mean, we're talking about commodifying your body through sex.

00:36:58.160 Well, surrogacy, egg donation, and sperm donation, which is really egg selling and sperm selling, these all commodify and objectify children as things to be bought rather than people to be created and to be cared for and to be loved.

00:37:16.960 It's really like have a child at whatever cost and there's almost no law that is really going to stop you from doing that.

00:37:23.600 And we see this in the story of this person named Greg Lindberg.

00:37:28.300 He is a now disgraced insurance businessman.

00:37:30.760 He amassed a large amount of wealth but recently was convicted of fraud.

00:37:35.680 He's probably going to go to prison soon.

00:37:37.540 This is just his latest legal trouble.

00:37:40.380 He began a highly controversial project a few years ago using financial and emotional manipulation along with some eugenesis characteristics, apparently, to father 12 children using specially recruited and highly paid egg donors.

00:37:57.180 And again, I just want to make sure I'm defining my terms.

00:38:00.200 We say egg donors.

00:38:01.340 We say sperm donor because selling human tissue is illegal in most cases in the United States.

00:38:07.640 And so the workaround there is that people who are giving their eggs or giving their sperm, oh, they're getting paid for their time.

00:38:17.060 They're getting paid for the effort that it takes to donate these things.

00:38:20.600 They're not technically getting paid for the actual DNA.

00:38:23.980 But of course, that is what is really being sold because a person who purchases an egg donor or who purchases a sperm donor, they're not getting in return the time and the effort.

00:38:35.600 They are getting the DNA that is what they are paying for.

00:38:39.140 It's actually insane that we have allowed that to be a legal workaround.

00:38:44.120 And also ask yourself, why is it illegal to sell human tissue?

00:38:48.600 What is wrong with that?

00:38:50.020 Why do we make an exception for the kind of human tissue that creates new life that cannot consent to be created in that way?

00:38:56.860 Most elements of Lindbergh's baby project were perfectly legal in the United States, even if they were controversial, which is exactly why I think we have to talk about it.

00:39:08.680 Last month, Greg Lindbergh pled guilty to money laundering fraud charges in a $2 billion scheme.

00:39:15.540 And that is kind of, I guess, what highlighted what he is doing behind the scenes and why Bloomberg decided to write this expose.

00:39:25.100 So here's a little background and why he decided to do this.

00:39:29.940 He and his wife had two children and chose to have their third child via IVF.

00:39:36.000 This was a while ago.

00:39:37.520 He was intrigued by the IVF experience when they went through that.

00:39:41.480 Then five years after the birth of their third child, the couple got divorced.

00:39:45.800 There was an ongoing custody battle after that over the children.

00:39:51.000 And then around this time, Lindbergh started planning his baby project.

00:39:55.320 He recalled, I really wanted to have a child that ultimately I couldn't lose in a custody battle.

00:40:01.600 I have heard this now multiple times by so-called men's rights activists on social media that the only way for a father to truly protect his progeny is to have a child via egg donor, via surrogate, because those women signed their parental rights away.

00:40:23.000 And then you have this child that you have basically bought and rented, rented the womb of one woman, paid for the eggs of another woman, basically prostituted two women in order to get this child to intentionally raise them without their mother or the only woman that they have ever known.

00:40:42.640 That is the surrogate.

00:40:43.900 That is beyond cruel.

00:40:45.620 Even if it does ensure that you never have to fight over this child in a custody battle, you don't need to create the child in the first place.

00:40:52.920 That is also a way not to fight for a child over in a custody battle.

00:40:58.620 So this guy, Lindbergh, he put his executive assistant in charge of coordinating with the fertility clinics and making the necessary appointments and payments.

00:41:06.940 Another one of his assistants agreed to be the first surrogate. 0.84

00:41:10.920 So he would go on dates with these women.

00:41:13.480 It's really unclear.

00:41:14.440 I tried to figure this out, like how he would find these women, these models who he thought were beautiful.

00:41:19.940 A lot of the coverage says that all of these women were blonde haired and blue eyed and green eyed. 0.99

00:41:25.700 He put a press release out to clarify that five that some of the mothers of five of the children.

00:41:33.120 I don't know like how many are from Latin America.

00:41:37.200 So don't worry.

00:41:38.660 They're not all blonde with green eyes and blue eyes.

00:41:42.080 He just wanted to make sure that everyone knew that.

00:41:45.880 But he described it basically as finding these women, dating them.

00:41:50.120 And then he would follow that by a significant bribe to use their eggs or I guess just an offer.

00:41:57.680 The first woman he pursued, a Los Angeles model in early 2018, was offered $1.5 million if she went through with an egg donation.

00:42:09.660 So again, just such funny language.

00:42:12.320 Here's $1.5 million.

00:42:14.140 Will you donate your eggs?

00:42:15.940 OK, that's not a donation.

00:42:18.020 Over the years, Lindbergh actively recruited egg donors and surrogates, including several women he dated or recruited via high net worth matchmaking services and Instagram.

00:42:27.720 Lindbergh used clinics across the U.S. and abroad, including California, Illinois, Nevada, Barbados, to facilitate his baby project.

00:42:35.300 He reportedly paid donors between $75,000 to $100,000 each and promised financial incentives of up to $1.5 million for certain women.

00:42:48.380 So just remember, too, that the egg donor and the surrogate are typically two different people.

00:42:57.860 And in many cases, they actually legally have to be two different people.

00:43:01.540 Now, is that, like, protective of the baby?

00:43:04.400 Is that protective of the egg donor or the egg seller or the surrogate?

00:43:10.160 No, it's not.

00:43:11.300 It's to protect the purchasers.

00:43:13.100 It's to protect the parents or the parent that is purchasing the child.

00:43:16.720 Because if you have the egg seller and the surrogate be the same person, so if the woman is just, say, she's just conceived via the sperm of the father who is purchasing the child and then she carries the child, OK, then she's got a really big bond with that child.

00:43:35.040 And it's going to be very hard for her emotionally to sign away her parental rights. 0.89

00:43:40.660 But when you are an egg seller, you never meet the child, you don't carry the child, you don't even know what it's like to, like, have your DNA and the other person's DNA come together to make a new life, then you don't feel that connection.

00:43:58.060 You certainly don't feel a claim on the child.

00:44:01.900 And then if you are the surrogate, yes, you do create that physiological bond with that child.

00:44:06.920 You just do.

00:44:07.900 That's how God created women's bodies in gestation. 1.00

00:44:10.580 You're supposed to create that bond because God wants someone to be able to have the instinct to protect that child that is so vulnerable and helpless when they're born.

00:44:20.560 But if it's not your biological child, then you also feel like, OK, yeah, I've got this emotional bond, but I can suppress it because I know this is not my child.

00:44:28.480 So that's why these two women are typically disconnected to protect the purchase of the purchasers of the children. 1.00

00:44:38.680 Lindbergh had multiple surrogates pregnant at a time, so also paying them to be the incubators of their baby as of his babies.

00:44:47.180 As part of their contract with Lindbergh, the women signed away their rights to the eggs and any future children, seemingly under the guise that Lindbergh would still include them as the mother.

00:44:58.200 This didn't happen.

00:44:59.080 Lindbergh used the contract to maintain his sole custody and cut the mother out of the child's life.

00:45:04.180 When Lindbergh believed that one of the egg sellers wanted to spend time with her child, Lindbergh wrote to his assistant to handle the situation.

00:45:11.180 She is an egg donor, and I do not share a child with her. 0.99

00:45:14.460 Lindbergh's assistant wrote to the mother, you pushed yourself away by being stupid enough to sell your eggs and believe he was going to want a relationship with you. 1.00

00:45:25.540 He doesn't respect egg donors. 1.00

00:45:27.960 I mean, that's literally you were a prostitute for this guy, but worse than a prostitute, because in prostitution, at least you're only objectifying yourself. 0.93

00:45:38.280 But when you are giving your eggs to someone, you are objectifying, commodifying a helpless child who cannot consent to that. 0.92

00:45:47.780 One donor was told to lie to doctors about her medical history during screenings.

00:45:52.560 Oh, that's great.

00:45:53.360 One thing that we unfortunately are learning more about with IVF and the egg selling process, everything that goes into that, the drugs, the hormones that are pumped into your body to make your eggs available for procuring, they can be very dangerous from a woman's body.

00:46:13.480 They increase your likelihood of breast cancer and of ovarian cancer.

00:46:18.340 But we're just going on and on with this.

00:46:21.740 Fertility clinics were also a part of this.

00:46:25.340 When dealing with the fertility industry, he said he didn't feel any resistance at all.

00:46:29.700 So there were no doctors.

00:46:31.440 There was no one in his way saying, hey, so like, why are you creating all these kids?

00:46:38.600 Like, what's going on here?

00:46:40.220 Is there a purpose behind this?

00:46:41.320 Like, who's going to take care of them?

00:46:42.460 You want to take care of these 12 children?

00:46:44.540 I mean, there could be something very nefarious going on here.

00:46:47.020 I don't know, but we have heard other stories of very rich men around the world creating children, motherless children, for very nefarious and profitable purposes.

00:47:02.000 I don't know if that's the case here, but I would think that someone along the way should have stopped to ask.

00:47:09.040 He said he worked with several fertility clinics, many of which knew about the large sums of money Lindbergh was paying for his treatments but didn't intervene.

00:47:17.380 At Kind Body Clinic in Chicago, there were reports of clinic staff speeding up the screening process for Lindbergh's egg sellers and failing to adequately address the complaints from donors about coercion.

00:47:27.720 Wow, this reminds me so much of Planned Parenthood.

00:47:30.460 Planned Parenthood also covers for abusers. 0.98

00:47:32.340 If you've got a rich guy that brings a teenage girl in and says, yeah, you know, I had sex with her and she needs an abortion, they're not going to say a word. 0.97

00:47:41.920 This reproductive industry, I'm telling you, is full of absolute money hungry rot. 1.00

00:47:49.780 And children are in the crosshairs.

00:47:51.900 Just like when it comes to the abortion industry, just like when it comes to the transgender industry, children are in the crosshairs. 0.97

00:47:58.660 What do we always say? Children are always the unconsenting subjects of progressive social experiments.

00:48:06.680 There's more about this.

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00:49:19.040 Okay, so this guy has already been to prison.

00:49:23.900 He was in prison in 2020, but he somehow continued to manage this project, even when he was in prison, making sure that he had the egg sellers and the surrogates lined up.

00:49:35.660 I don't understand how he continued to have the money for this.

00:49:38.980 Also, interestingly, he was engaged.

00:49:42.040 First, Olivia Molina, his fiancee, played a key role in continuing the baby project after Lindbergh's prison sentence, recruiting egg sellers via Instagram and managing Lindbergh's baby making operations.

00:49:54.100 I'm telling you, he was looking for a way to make money through these children.

00:49:57.780 He still has, quote unquote, a ton of embryos stored at fertility clinics from multiple egg sellers, although he recently paused the baby project, apparently.

00:50:08.580 When asked if he plans to use them, he said, if I have the resources and the time and the youth, the youth, I feel somewhat obligated to see, morally obligated, to see if there's humans in those embryos.

00:50:21.220 And this is the problem.

00:50:23.540 And therein lies the issue is the denial, the blatant denial that the embryos that you are creating are humans.

00:50:32.780 And that is true.

00:50:34.040 Whether you are someone like this guy or whether you are using IVF as a married man and a woman and you're trying to create children, obviously the motivations there are different.

00:50:44.200 The effect there is different.

00:50:45.300 And I'm not saying that those two situations are the same at all, but the humanity is shared there.

00:50:51.580 The embryos are human and therefore how we treat them matters.

00:50:55.660 They are in-souled image bearers of God that we are placing on ice. 0.97

00:50:59.760 And too often in every single process of IVF, they are either discarded because they got a low grade.

00:51:05.820 They are accidentally discarded or thawed.

00:51:10.200 They don't make the very risky transfer process.

00:51:13.320 Too many embryos are created because the doctor recommends, hey, let's go ahead and just see how many we can create.

00:51:19.780 Great.

00:51:20.080 We created six.

00:51:21.380 Oh, the family only wants four.

00:51:23.440 Or the mom, she had some kind of adverse health event after number two.

00:51:28.420 And so now they're left over with these four embryos.

00:51:31.180 What to do with them?

00:51:32.140 Do you freeze them indefinitely?

00:51:33.520 Do you adopt them to a couple that you don't even know?

00:51:36.380 Or a single man you don't even know?

00:51:39.300 You don't know what he's going to do with them.

00:51:40.720 You don't know if they're going to share your same faith.

00:51:42.720 Or do you discard them knowing that you have now killed the children that you have created?

00:51:48.500 That is the gamble that every single couple, no matter how well-meaning or no matter how malicious like this guy, no matter the intent, that is the gamble that every single couple takes when they embark on IVF.

00:52:02.400 And I know I'm always told that is too harsh.

00:52:06.380 What are people supposed to do who don't want to have kids?

00:52:08.860 And while I absolutely have so much compassion for the pain of infertility, IVF is not the answer.

00:52:18.380 And again, I'm not saying that your situation is like this, guys.

00:52:21.400 But I do want to show you that the industry is rotten, that the industry itself is rotten.

00:52:27.680 Maybe not every individual doctor.

00:52:29.600 I'm not saying every individual experience.

00:52:31.840 But it is built upon this lie that he just articulated that embryos aren't really human.

00:52:37.620 And therefore, they don't have the rights that you and I do.

00:52:40.800 But that is not how God sees it.

00:52:43.680 And I would say for a Christian who understands that, that these embryos are made in the image of God and therefore how we see their precious lives and how we treat them matters, that it is not worth the risk. 0.65

00:52:54.680 I know that there are some couples who have been able to create the exact number of embryos that they were willing to carry.

00:53:02.940 That's absolutely the best case scenario.

00:53:06.260 And I'm so thankful that for the couples that were able to do that and that they did that even maybe having more children than they initially planned for because they felt responsible for all of those embryos.

00:53:18.080 However, that is very, very rare.

00:53:22.220 That is usually not the case.

00:53:24.140 And I say, why take the risk?

00:53:25.960 And yes, adoption is a viable option.

00:53:29.540 We have to shift away from seeing having children as a human right.

00:53:35.040 We don't have a right to children.

00:53:37.020 Children are gifts that God can give us to steward and be responsible for and be thankful for.

00:53:43.320 But they are not objects that we have a right to.

00:53:47.600 It's not a means justifies the ends situation here.

00:53:51.180 And I think that this story really just highlights the absolute corruption and just the low, low view we have of human life and babies.

00:54:01.820 He says, Lindbergh said, okay, so he says that this project is to preserve who we are as a civilization, as a species, whatever that means.

00:54:12.700 I just want to say, like, we're good.

00:54:14.600 We're good over here, okay?

00:54:16.280 Like, let those of us who are married handle the baby making from here on out. 0.95

00:54:21.880 We got it.

00:54:23.120 You enjoy prison and, like, allow us to worry about the procreation.

00:54:30.900 We've got it from here on out, boss.

00:54:33.280 Okay, assuming he's going back to prison after his guilty plea last month, he's not sure what he'll do with his many young children.

00:54:41.520 Whoops.

00:54:42.000 He relies on his assistants and his nannies to look after them.

00:54:46.500 That is so sad.

00:54:48.320 That is so sad.

00:54:49.900 But expects the kids to visit him and play in the prison yard during his visiting hours. 1.00

00:54:56.020 You are a selfish, selfish man. 1.00

00:55:00.060 I can't call you what I want to call you. 1.00

00:55:02.840 He responded to the national news in a press release.

00:55:05.760 He says the investment was worth it.

00:55:08.660 Children are priceless.

00:55:09.880 Well, some of them, I guess, are worth $75,000.

00:55:14.160 I mean, there's kind of a price that you paid.

00:55:17.680 They're expensive to raise and educate, okay?

00:55:21.240 And every one of them is a vote for the future of the country and the planet.

00:55:25.540 You know, that part kind of sounds like Elon Musk, because Elon Musk has also used IVF and surrogacy to have his several children.

00:55:33.660 Now, I hope he actually cares for all of them.

00:55:36.160 I'm not really sure how that is possible.

00:55:38.540 I also still think that the whole process is just unethical and immoral and wrong, but that does kind of sound like Elon Musk.

00:55:46.060 But again, I say, like, yes, we do need more children.

00:55:50.020 We need more babies. 1.00

00:55:50.920 But let us promote marriage to get there, not the commodifying of people's bodies and children.

00:55:56.200 He did know, again, I said this earlier, that five of his children have Latina mothers, and so we don't have to worry about apparently people implying that, oh, he just wanted, like, white children.

00:56:09.740 I don't know.

00:56:10.300 That doesn't make it any better or worse for me.

00:56:14.180 The whole thing is wrong.

00:56:15.460 And again, I would just look into what is the wild, wild west of the reproductive industry in the United States.

00:56:23.020 It is responsible for more lost lives every year than the abortion industry.

00:56:30.140 Isn't that ironic that the reproduction industry is actually responsible for more baby death through embryonic destruction and eugenics than abortion? 0.89

00:56:40.720 And God have mercy.

00:56:43.240 God have mercy on all professing Christians who have known about this, been silent about this, or chosen ignorance because it's hard.

00:56:53.280 And if you're new to this, we've got tons and tons of episodes on it.

00:56:57.040 You can type in Relatable Surrogacy or Relatable IVF on YouTube, wherever you listen, and you can binge those over the next few weeks, and you will learn a lot.

00:57:05.980 I've also learned a lot.

00:57:08.080 And there's just got to be reform.

00:57:11.640 There's got to be legal reform.

00:57:13.360 It is the wild, wild west.

00:57:15.620 And these babies, these embryos, these lives have absolutely no rights.

00:57:20.680 They can be created by single men. 0.69

00:57:22.860 They can be ordered from men in China.

00:57:26.140 They can hire an egg seller and a surrogate here in the United States.

00:57:30.440 They can pick up that child, take that child home, sex traffic that child for lots of money.

00:57:35.160 There are no laws or no rules.

00:57:36.840 And America is unique in that.

00:57:39.040 Europe has way better safeguards surrounding IVF and surrogacy than the United States.

00:57:45.200 And that is scary and very, very sad for a country who claims that we were all endowed with inalienable rights by a creator.

00:57:52.940 All right.

00:57:54.520 Okay.

00:57:54.840 We're going to try to get into Daystar just a little bit because I told you guys that I would update you and I can't keep putting it off.

00:58:02.780 But I'm going to have to condense it because we just don't have a whole lot of time to get into all of the new revelations of this Daystar scandal.

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00:59:12.440 Okay, so you'll remember Daystar is the charismatic, professing Christian TV network.

00:59:20.300 It's been around for a long time, and I would say that it platforms the prosperity gospel like no other outlet.

00:59:27.320 So I'm not a fan, but there are a lot of you who are interested in this, not only because it's Daystar, but because of the potential victims within it, within this scandal that's going on.

00:59:44.120 And I'm going to try, again, to give you as much of an update as I can and a recap without going too lengthy because it's going to be a super long episode.

00:59:52.880 Okay, so Jonathan Lamb is the son of Daystar president.

00:59:56.860 Joni Lamb, his wife Susie, and Jonathan are alleging in recent interviews that a family member and employee of Daystar only identified as Pete, is suspected of sexually abusing their daughter, and that Joni and other higher-ups at Daystar covered up the allegations.

01:00:13.480 Jonathan and Susie claimed that Joni and her husband and Jonathan's dad, Marcus, tried to diminish the incident and later told them that Pete had been cleared of all guilt through a forensic psychologist that apparently Marcus had hired to do a lie detector test because Jonathan and Susie said that their four-year-old daughter claimed that this guy had touched her inappropriately.

01:00:34.560 Jonathan also claimed that he walked in on some beach retreat and this guy was standing in the room with his naked daughter, and so obviously this blew up into a whole thing, and, you know, Joni and Marcus said that we're going to take care of this.

01:00:48.400 We'll do a lie detector test. Don't worry. It cleared him.

01:00:51.720 But there was a lot of drama here because Marcus also died shortly after these allegations were being made, at least privately.

01:01:01.280 He died of COVID complications. And then very shortly after that, Joni married someone new named Doug, and apparently Jonathan and Susie did not approve of that marriage.

01:01:14.640 And so that caused a lot of drama, apparently, behind the scenes.

01:01:19.680 And so when these allegations finally came to light, and they just came to light over the past few weeks, that Joni and Marcus had allegedly covered up the sexual abuse of their granddaughter by another Daystar employee and possibly a family member,

01:01:40.120 However, it was then purported by Joni and her defense that, no, Jonathan and Susie are just mad.

01:01:48.360 They're mad about my marriage to Doug that happened so quickly after my husband died.

01:01:54.200 And also, they are mad because Jonathan wasn't made president or CEO or head of Daystar, and I was made head of Daystar.

01:02:02.680 So all of these allegations that Jonathan and Susie are putting out there are really just revenge.

01:02:09.520 However, there was audio that showed Jonathan and Joni and then Jimmy Evans.

01:02:15.100 He is also a pastor, a big part of Daystar, having a conversation after Jonathan and Susie, like, disapproved of Joni and Doug's marriage,

01:02:27.540 where Jimmy Evans was saying, look, Joni is the voice of God to you.

01:02:33.660 She's basically God at Daystar, whatever she says goes, and if you don't do what we say, then you are not going to be promoted or we are going to let you go.

01:02:48.240 So Joni and Jimmy pressure Jonathan and Susie to submit to Joni's authority, calling her the voice of God.

01:02:56.600 At Daystar, Jimmy Evans asked Jonathan, if God came to you right now and he is saying you made a mistake, would you correct it?

01:03:05.480 And he says, okay, well, God has spoken to you.

01:03:08.760 He spoke to you through me.

01:03:10.320 He spoke to you through Jimmy.

01:03:12.000 That's what Joni is saying.

01:03:13.500 Jonathan says, you're not God.

01:03:15.600 Evan says, we're God's representatives.

01:03:17.220 And Evan says, you've got 80 years of experience sitting right here talking to you.

01:03:22.080 It's a spirit, Jonathan.

01:03:23.640 It's a spirit that you will not listen, not just to authority, but to experience.

01:03:28.180 Did you pastor for 41 years and work with marriages?

01:03:30.660 I don't think so.

01:03:31.600 You have about a thumbnail of experience compared to us.

01:03:34.660 Later in the meeting, Joni tells Susie that she is not allowed to have convictions and fires her from Daystar for refusing to read a viewer comment celebrating her second marriage.

01:03:42.520 So that's apparently what a lot of this argument is about.

01:03:45.400 She says, you are bad, Susie. 1.00

01:03:47.080 You've got him by the balls and you know it. 1.00

01:03:49.580 This is so evil. 0.99

01:03:50.620 What is happening?

01:03:51.280 Susie replies.

01:03:52.920 And Joni says, no, what is evil is you.

01:03:55.400 What's evil is you and the spirit that is driving you.

01:03:59.160 So there was a lot of drama, a lot of back and forth there.

01:04:03.220 So that was July 11th, 2023.

01:04:05.240 That was a month after she decided to marry this guy, Doug Weiss.

01:04:11.400 And then Jonathan and Susie later in October of 2023 tried to reconcile over this disagreement.

01:04:19.900 And I read a portion of the letter about this on the last episode about Daystar.

01:04:24.960 But a lot of you pointed out, and I appreciate this, that it was missing context that when Joni read part of the letter that I had read, that she made it seem like he was manipulating her and that this was about these were about the allegations of sexual abuse.

01:04:42.560 But apparently it wasn't about that.

01:04:44.340 Apparently it was actually about the disapproval of the marriage, which Jimmy Evans and Joni were angry about because they refused to read a congratulatory message from a viewer on air.

01:04:58.020 And that caused this, all this drama.

01:05:00.620 So Jonathan said, the list of demands that we received, so they received a list of demands from Daystar saying, like, this is what you need to do to basically earn back our trust after you disapproved of this marriage.

01:05:16.540 They said, Jonathan said, these demands are overreaching, inaccurate, and missing essential terms that we view as a prerequisite to moving forward.

01:05:23.960 This episode began because of Joni's need to control our biblical convictions to suit her personal choices.

01:05:28.520 We will not compromise on our biblical beliefs and moral convictions.

01:05:31.820 We are, however, willing to keep those beliefs to ourselves, and we can agree not to share our thoughts about Joni's marriage to Doug on air with our viewers, with staff, or on social media.

01:05:44.500 During the meeting with Joni and Jimmy Evans, Joni purported to fire Susie and promptly removed her from all appearances on Daystar.

01:05:50.920 That was petty and harmful.

01:05:52.300 Repair must be made.

01:05:53.400 And then here's the section that Joni quoted.

01:05:55.780 We remain willing to put this episode behind us.

01:05:57.780 However, we also require security, transparency, and certainty about our future at Daystar.

01:06:01.540 So what I messed up on last time is that I thought that he was referencing there the abuse or alleged abuse of his child, but that's not what he was referencing.

01:06:13.300 He was referencing the episode of the audio that we just heard, that whole back and forth of saying Joni is the voice of God.

01:06:20.200 You have to approve of our marriage, basically.

01:06:21.880 To achieve the goal of reconciliation, Jonathan says,

01:06:26.380 It is worth noting, also, this communication happened before November 18, 2023.

01:06:44.140 It is worth noting, also, this communication happened before November 18, 2023, which is when Jonathan and Susie found out that Daystar's internal investigations

01:06:59.480 had not actually cleared the Daystar employee accused of molesting their daughter like they were told by Jonathan's father.

01:07:06.660 So if you're wondering, well, hang on, what happened to those allegations?

01:07:10.040 Why aren't those allegations at the center of this division?

01:07:14.820 Like, why is it the approval or disapproval of the marriage?

01:07:18.480 Well, Jonathan and Susie, at this point, they had kind of thought that that had been reconciled, that there was, like, nothing that could be done about that, I guess.

01:07:26.400 We don't know all of the details.

01:07:27.980 I don't know if they believed that their child just, like, wasn't telling the full truth or that they didn't really know what happened.

01:07:35.040 But that's why I guess they're not discussing that at this moment.

01:07:38.920 Now, Joni Lamb has responded to all of this on Tuesday, December 3rd.

01:07:44.340 Daystar and Joni posted a 36-minute video to address some of the rumors and allegations.

01:07:49.900 She says that when we are talking about the beach retreat incident where Pete was inside the room,

01:07:55.220 Pete was not, in fact, alone with Jonathan and Susie's daughter in the room,

01:07:58.660 but that her other 8-year-old grandson was also in the room and that Pete was holding another 1-year-old baby.

01:08:05.140 Obviously, the child that is alleging abuse came in and, like, changed clothes.

01:08:10.380 Apparently, that's what happened.

01:08:11.960 After this interview with the original journalist who released the story about the alleged abuse issued a correction that Pete was not alone in the room.

01:08:22.120 And so she says that completely disproves all of this.

01:08:25.040 Of course, Jonathan and Susie don't see it that way.

01:08:27.600 And I would not say that just because there were other children in the room, that necessarily clears him of any wrongdoing there.

01:08:35.140 Um, she says that her children, Jonathan and Susie, were supportive of her marriage to Doug until she mentioned adding Doug as a co-host to her show.

01:08:44.120 When she told Jonathan, Susie, and her other children that Doug would be co-hosting with her,

01:08:48.380 apparently Susie did a complete 180 from her earlier excitement and turned against her. 0.99

01:08:52.680 The reason is clear.

01:08:53.580 They did not want someone else coming in and taking their place.

01:08:56.080 But the truth is, Doug did not take anyone's place.

01:08:58.640 Marcus never intended.

01:09:00.240 Marcus is her first husband, Jonathan's dad.

01:09:02.180 And, um, for Jonathan to be the president while he was alive or while he was alive, uh, Joni said, uh, she is obviously not the voice of God.

01:09:12.160 It was an illustration to point out that she is the authority at Daystar.

01:09:17.160 She also claims that Jonathan had been put on a performance improvement plan after repeatedly mismanaging several departments.

01:09:23.460 He was the head over causing several people to quit.

01:09:27.240 She says he did not improve and that was why he was fired.

01:09:30.340 So she claims it had nothing to do with the marriage.

01:09:32.180 It didn't have to do with the allegations.

01:09:33.620 It had to do with the fact that he wasn't doing a good job.

01:09:37.020 Jonathan and Susie say, nope, that was incorrect.

01:09:40.580 When it comes to the allegation that their child made, uh, they deny that Pete was just innocently, uh, standing in the room.

01:09:51.060 Um, Susie claimed that Pete followed the children when he saw their daughter going upstairs to change, causing her to feel uneasy, which is why she went up to the room.

01:09:59.860 Jonathan and Susie clarified that on November 18th, 2023, they found out that Pete had not been cleared by the lie detector guy, the forensic psychologist, um, in 2021 and, uh, following the, following the incident.

01:10:14.800 And it was after this that Jonathan and Susie took their daughter to a counselor who then reported the suspected abuse to CPS.

01:10:21.400 So that's also a clarity, uh, clarifying thing on the timeline that I didn't get right or tell all of last week.

01:10:28.340 This is when the police reopened the case into the sexual abuse of their daughter.

01:10:32.140 Jonathan and Susie revealed that they have been followed by a private investigator in an obvious and harassing way.

01:10:38.600 Jonathan also claims that in 2023, he felt led by the Holy Spirit to look at the surveillance footage of the Daystar building.

01:10:44.460 And at that exact moment, he saw a security guard put a tracker on his car.

01:10:48.680 That's crazy.

01:10:50.440 Uh, Joni is doing another interview with Marcus, uh, Rogers.

01:10:55.680 He is a popular YouTuber.

01:10:57.440 Uh, Joni said that Pete did take this polygraph test in July, 2024.

01:11:05.300 Well, that's strange.

01:11:06.800 That's a strange timeline there because they originally said it was in 2021 specifically for pedophiles.

01:11:13.560 Okay.

01:11:14.400 And scored 99.5% the highest score is possible.

01:11:18.980 Okay.

01:11:19.260 So she's saying that it didn't really happen.

01:11:21.740 And I guess she believes that her child or that her grandchild lied about this or that the parents are lying about this.

01:11:28.400 She explains the beach house incident.

01:11:30.560 She said that the facts were purposely left out to drive a damaging, uh, narrative.

01:11:36.600 Joni confirmed that there was an incident where the young girl accidentally walked in on Pete showering in 2020.

01:11:41.920 Prior to the beach house incident, Joni adds that neither Susie nor Jonathan were upset about this at the time.

01:11:47.820 Well, maybe because all of these things were kind of coming together and they realized they were, I'm just saying possibly there were too many instances of Pete accidentally being around their child, whether she was naked or he was naked.

01:12:01.580 That just seems like a lot of things to, to happen that are just a coincidence.

01:12:06.920 I'm just saying Joni responded to the vehicle trackers accusation that Jonathan made.

01:12:12.780 Joni said that all day star vehicles have trackers and dry and Jonathan was driving a day star vehicle.

01:12:17.840 So that was not unusual.

01:12:19.160 I have no idea if that is true.

01:12:21.600 So, uh, Joni claimed they started doing this after her father who used to work at day star, but suffered from dementia got lost while driving one of the vehicles.

01:12:32.060 According to Jonathan's Instagram, his grandfather, Joni's father died in April, 2020.

01:12:36.840 Jonathan claimed that day star didn't buy its first vehicle tracker until October, 2023.

01:12:41.640 So one of them is not telling the truth there.

01:12:44.700 Joni said that she hasn't seen Jonathan and Susie's children or, um, her, uh, Jonathan and Susie's children, her grandchildren.

01:12:51.600 In over a year.

01:12:54.900 Well, there are a lot of opinions that I could give on that.

01:12:58.100 I will let you draw your own conclusions.

01:13:00.060 I just wanted to, um, I just wanted to make sure that you had all the information and guys, I don't even have time to reflect on 2024.

01:13:09.040 I've got to get out of here.

01:13:10.200 Cause I have to go to, I get to go to, I'm excited to go to, um, a Christmas play.

01:13:16.420 And so I got to get out of here to make sure that I am on time for that.

01:13:19.720 But I just want to say this and maybe I'll do something at the beginning of the year.

01:13:23.500 I am so thankful.

01:13:25.120 I'm so thankful for every relatable listener.

01:13:27.900 Thank you so much for listening, for watching, for attending, share the arrows, for buying the book, for praying for me, for sending encouraging messages to me.

01:13:35.800 I'm just so grateful for all of you.

01:13:37.320 I'm grateful for the relatable team.

01:13:38.920 We get to talk about things that matter.

01:13:40.480 I get to talk about the craziness and the chaos of this world in light of the perfect sovereignty of God.

01:13:46.840 And it is a privilege that I do not take for granted.

01:13:49.540 I hope that you all have a wonderful Christmas, celebrating the birth of our Savior and a wonderful new year.

01:13:54.640 We will see you guys back here soon.

01:13:56.080 We'll see you guys next time.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - December 12, 2024

Ep 1114 ｜ To the Girl Who Slept with 100 Men： It's Not Too Late

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