Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1116 ｜ Women Preachers, The Roots of Feminism, & Battling Eating Disorders ｜ Guest： Lisa Bevere

00:00:00.720 Lisa Bevere is a speaker and a New York Times bestselling author. 0.93

00:00:05.540 Her most recent book, Fight for Female, Reclaiming Our Divine Identity, is a bold and a thorough

00:00:14.100 look at the history of feminism, how we got where we did with gender ideology, and why

00:00:21.460 it is so important for us as women to understand both who we are and whose we are.

00:00:27.940 Lisa and I come from different theological camps.

00:00:32.300 We will talk about some of our disagreements when it comes to women preaching in church,

00:00:38.980 but I am so grateful for Lisa and her very unique courage when it comes to this issue

00:00:45.360 that unfortunately many in the church consider too controversial to touch.

00:00:50.460 You will love this episode.

00:00:52.740 We talk about so much, and she is so encouraging.

00:00:56.240 It's brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers.

00:00:59.060 Go to GoodRanchers.com.

00:01:00.540 Use code Allie at checkout. 1.00

00:01:01.780 That's GoodRanchers.com, code Allie.

00:01:13.900 Lisa, thanks so much for taking the time to join me.

00:01:17.060 I mostly want to talk to you about your newest book.

00:01:20.640 You are one of the few Christian female teachers I know who will just be outspoken about gender 0.94

00:01:28.500 ideology and the reality of male and female, which is sad.

00:01:33.660 So tell me a little bit about it just up front, like what this book is, why you wrote it.

00:01:38.960 Yeah.

00:01:39.140 Well, it's called The Fight for Female and Reclaiming Our Divine Identity.

00:01:42.680 And I'm not saying we're goddesses.

00:01:44.180 I'm saying we're created in God's image.

00:01:46.800 And when God creates us, He creates us male and female to reflect Him.

00:01:53.560 And so when you start to actually mess with male and mess with female, you're undermining

00:01:58.660 the image of God.

00:02:00.460 And you and I both, we've talked about this.

00:02:02.440 There's certain things we can be like, okay, I can be quiet on that.

00:02:04.960 The sanctity of life and the image of God is not, those are not things I can be quiet about.

00:02:12.740 And I started to just read these different things of what is happening.

00:02:17.220 And I thought, what is going on?

00:02:19.360 And why, if I said anything?

00:02:22.340 Allie, Christian women got mad at me. 1.00

00:02:25.220 If I just even said something about men don't belong in women's sports, people would just

00:02:30.720 react and say you're being hate.

00:02:32.720 It says on Instagram mostly.

00:02:33.640 Well, yeah, that's about the only one I know how to access, my Facebook.

00:02:37.160 I don't even have the passwords for it.

00:02:38.660 Me too.

00:02:39.600 But people are like, this is so mean.

00:02:42.980 You know, I'm okay with this.

00:02:44.980 And I'm like, no, what is going on?

00:02:47.980 And why are women not using their voice to fight for their daughters? 1.00

00:02:52.700 And I started to do a deep dive into, wait, where's the feminists? 1.00

00:02:57.560 All these advocates for women being willing to say that men can be women.

00:03:03.100 What is going on?

00:03:04.600 And Allie, the deeper I went into it, the darker it became.

00:03:08.620 And I was like, I, you know what?

00:03:10.580 I'm 64.

00:03:12.560 If everybody gets mad at me and cancels me, that's fine.

00:03:15.440 So I was just like, I don't even care.

00:03:17.600 A few years ago, you posted the picture of your t-shirt.

00:03:20.920 Said the future is male and female, which shouldn't be remotely controversial, but it was considered

00:03:27.120 controversial.

00:03:27.600 Yeah, so I, yeah, I was in Franklin, Tennessee, which is a little Christian bubble. 0.97

00:03:32.360 And I went out to this, you know, place with a t-shirt on and the men were like, thank

00:03:36.520 you.

00:03:36.860 Thank you for including us in the future.

00:03:38.520 I'm like, I got you.

00:03:39.920 And then I had women like, I think I need that t-shirt. 1.00

00:03:42.340 So Allie, I actually thought everybody liked it.

00:03:44.240 So I take a selfie with it.

00:03:45.760 But 922 comments within the first 24 hours, people, you saw, people are like, you are

00:03:52.020 co-signing with patriarchy.

00:03:53.720 This is coding like all lives matter. 0.99

00:03:56.240 You are a transphobe, a homophobe, a bigot. 1.00

00:03:59.500 You're a demon of hate. 1.00

00:04:01.220 I mean, people just went crazy on this concept of the future is male and female. 0.98

00:04:07.940 And what I had put underneath it was the future is male and female because without male and

00:04:12.620 female, there is no future. 1.00

00:04:14.040 That's not even deep. 0.50

00:04:15.780 That's your parents.

00:04:16.600 I was like, this is biology.

00:04:19.460 And I remember, I was like, what just happened?

00:04:23.340 So I type into my laptop, what is the origin of the quote, the future is female?

00:04:31.020 And I was shocked.

00:04:32.480 A Washington Post article comes up and it was from a lesbian separatist group in 1975 called

00:04:41.560 Labris.

00:04:42.480 I was like, what is Labris?

00:04:45.100 Well, Labris is the two-headed axe carried by Amazons and the Greek and Roman goddesses. 0.85

00:04:52.160 And they said the future is female was a call to war, an invocation, and a spell to cast. 0.98

00:05:00.240 Wow.

00:05:00.820 I'm like, well, this is crazy.

00:05:04.820 And it had been brought back into popularity during Hillary's campaign.

00:05:08.600 Right.

00:05:09.880 Yeah.

00:05:10.300 And how does this, that idea, that ideology connect to, ironically, like the erasure of

00:05:17.880 women? 1.00

00:05:18.160 Because it does seem like there are many feminists, some feminists who don't, but many feminists 1.00

00:05:22.940 who are completely on board with boys and girls sports, men and girls restrooms.

00:05:29.660 How do those things tie together?

00:05:31.540 Well, I, you know, and again, going to the deep dive into feminism, I found out that it 1.00

00:05:37.400 really isn't so much rooted in the empowerment of women as it is in a Marxist agenda to dismantle

00:05:45.700 family.

00:05:46.060 And so anything that's going to dismantle family, they're going to support.

00:05:51.580 Like, I always thought, okay, you know, feminism started really sweet and then it went sideways. 1.00

00:05:56.900 No, it started.

00:05:58.060 That's not the true narrative.

00:05:59.740 No, it is not the true.

00:06:01.000 I wanted it to be the true narrative.

00:06:02.660 It was not.

00:06:03.520 I discovered that the mother of feminist thought was a woman named Mary Wollsingcraft. 0.84

00:06:08.460 And she died in childbirth with Mary Shelley, who wrote Frankenstein, who was married to

00:06:14.160 Percy Shelley, who believed that the serpent was the wise counselor and God was prohibitive.

00:06:19.560 And it just, it just kept going from there.

00:06:22.540 And it was always about a self-will, self-ruled, you know, we, you know, women instead of men

00:06:31.380 or women independent of men. 0.99

00:06:33.260 And it's very anti-God-woven.

00:06:37.500 Like, you and I believe in women who are strong and women who have a voice, but you and I do

00:06:45.660 not believe in women using their voice to undermine or undercut men.

00:06:51.140 And that whole idea of feminism started to say to women, if you want to be powerful, act 1.00

00:06:58.460 like a man.

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00:08:11.660 And I think a lot of people don't know what you just said about first-wave feminism, second-wave 0.96

00:08:24.760 feminism, third-wave feminism, how they're connected to gender ideology today. 0.81

00:08:28.480 Because I've heard that over and over again, that really feminism in its foundations is good. 1.00

00:08:34.540 I've even heard some people try to say, well, you know, Jesus was a feminist in some ways. 1.00

00:08:41.280 So tell us how—

00:08:42.820 Jesus was pro-female. 0.97

00:08:44.100 Yes.

00:08:44.360 He can be pro-female.

00:08:46.720 Yeah.

00:08:47.180 That's what I was going to ask you.

00:08:48.320 Draw the distinction there.

00:08:51.000 Yeah.

00:08:51.240 So, I mean, you and I are pro-female.

00:08:52.980 Yeah.

00:08:53.160 But the feminist agenda is very much a push to go into the man's world and beat him. 1.00

00:08:59.420 It actually is really interesting to me because the more you—actually, even when I was reading

00:09:05.080 about Labras, these are lesbian separatists who look like men.

00:09:11.160 I'm like, if you hate men, what are you trying to look like—it didn't even make sense.

00:09:15.520 But I have listened to so much of the anger in the feminism and it's like, go into the 1.00

00:09:21.520 man's world, beat him at what he's game, behave sexually like him, divorce, you know, 0.75

00:09:27.440 whatever that is. 0.94

00:09:28.400 And what I have learned is that I believe feminists are very anti-female because they tell women 0.95

00:09:35.640 if they want to be powerful, they need to act like men instead of saying there is something

00:09:40.900 beautiful and powerful about acting like a woman.

00:09:45.520 And so being pro-female is not necessarily equated with being pro-feminist.

00:09:52.720 If anything, I feel like feminists are anti-female and anti-male. 1.00

00:09:57.580 I mean, we're watching the lovely 4B movement. 1.00

00:10:00.600 Right.

00:10:01.600 I gave an expression right now.

00:10:03.480 I got in a little bit of trouble.

00:10:05.200 I only put it on my story, but I was like, hey, I just want to thank you, 4B women, for 1.00

00:10:10.280 your sacrifice.

00:10:11.600 Because of you, there's going to be less STIs.

00:10:14.540 There's because of you, there's going to be less unprimed pregnancies.

00:10:17.940 Thank you.

00:10:18.620 Thank you.

00:10:19.240 I mean, it's just crazy.

00:10:22.520 Yeah.

00:10:22.780 And for those who don't know, the 4B movement, we did an episode on it and it stands for the

00:10:29.460 Korean word for nose that started with a B or the four nose.

00:10:33.940 It started in South Korea.

00:10:35.880 It's kind of moved elsewhere.

00:10:37.640 It's very small in South Korea, but it's kind of become more pervasive because of social

00:10:41.340 media here today.

00:10:43.620 And these women who are shaving their heads, they're warding off men. 1.00

00:10:47.260 They're saying no sex, no men, you know, no reproduction, obviously, and all of that.

00:10:51.900 No marriage. 0.79

00:10:52.560 Yeah, in response to Trump's election, saying basically the patriarchy got us here and so

00:10:58.620 we are repudiating any connection with men.

00:11:02.520 Okay, does this all go back to the curse after the fall and the curse in which God said, look,

00:11:11.980 you're going to struggle for the usurpation of your husband's authority.

00:11:18.880 Does all of this enmity that we see between men and women and even the disagreement about

00:11:23.520 what a woman is, does it go back to that? 1.00

00:11:26.200 I absolutely believe it does.

00:11:28.260 You know, when we see the fall of mankind in the garden, what you see for the very first

00:11:34.720 time is you see order turn into disorder, multiplication turn into division.

00:11:41.020 You see all of a sudden a breach between the husband and the wife, between parents and

00:11:46.580 children, brother to brother.

00:11:48.060 I think all of the things that we see now that are broken in our world started with the

00:11:55.020 fall.

00:11:55.940 But here's the thing I love, Allie.

00:11:57.840 It says that Jesus came to seek and save that which was lost.

00:12:04.160 So I believe that when we follow Jesus, he creates a pathway where we do not fight for

00:12:11.000 the position with our husband, but that we fight to be one with our husbands.

00:12:15.840 That submission means that we are under assignment with our husbands.

00:12:20.420 You know, we're not, as a women, we're not under every man.

00:12:24.460 Submission means that I'm under my husband because together we are building a marriage.

00:12:30.460 We're building a family.

00:12:32.120 We work together in a ministry.

00:12:34.360 So we're building a ministry together.

00:12:36.020 He's ultimately the leader, but a leader is somebody who actually exercises something

00:12:42.380 called dominion.

00:12:43.660 I feel like under the fall, we had domination, but dominion says, I'm going to use my authority

00:12:49.860 on behalf of those under my care.

00:12:52.820 Whereas, you know, and then I get it, the patriarchy, they're like patriarchy, patriarchy.

00:12:57.100 You know, I get really nervous when I hear Christian women denouncing the word patriarchy.

00:13:04.060 I feel like they have forgotten he's the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

00:13:08.140 That is a patriarchal line.

00:13:10.460 It doesn't mean that God doesn't honor and value matriarchal, but God is a father.

00:13:18.680 And so when we start to say, oh no, he might be female and it could be this, and we are

00:13:24.980 really skating on thin ice.

00:13:28.360 And just too many people are running very loose with what God has created.

00:13:34.260 And again, we look in Ephesians and Ephesians says, okay, so there's not going to be a struggle

00:13:38.860 if husbands love their wife as Christ loves the church and the wife honors and respects

00:13:45.100 and obeys her husband.

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00:14:52.880 I know this is a little maybe of an aside from the topic of your book, but it's on what we're

00:15:03.360 talking about.

00:15:04.040 I saw a post that you put on Instagram a few months ago where you were talking about the

00:15:09.440 struggle that you had, the power struggle at the beginning of your marriage.

00:15:13.080 Yes.

00:15:13.340 Where you were in charge, you were leading, and you felt like, honestly, I can do it better.

00:15:18.540 But there was also this tension inside of you that knew this is not how my marriage is

00:15:22.580 supposed to be.

00:15:23.300 Can you talk about that?

00:15:24.200 Yes.

00:15:24.560 I was very young.

00:15:25.860 I had just had my first baby.

00:15:28.060 I'm working full time.

00:15:29.620 My husband's working part time.

00:15:31.160 And I wanted to do everything perfectly.

00:15:33.880 So I am breastfeeding at home.

00:15:36.120 Then I'm pumping my breasts at work. 0.85

00:15:37.840 And then I'm nursing my baby in my lunch hour.

00:15:39.780 And then I'm making organic food.

00:15:41.200 And I would ask my husband, just drop the baby off at this time.

00:15:45.040 Couldn't do it.

00:15:45.920 Take out the garbage.

00:15:46.720 He would forget to do it.

00:15:47.920 I was so stressed out, Allie.

00:15:50.280 I would get in my bathtub, and I would submerge myself where only my nose was above the water.

00:15:55.800 And John would come in.

00:15:56.660 I'm like, what are you doing?

00:15:57.900 And I'm like, I'm trying to relax.

00:15:59.460 And he'd say, maybe you just need to break.

00:16:01.580 I'd be like, you better hope I don't break.

00:16:03.600 Because I am holding all of this together.

00:16:06.180 And he said, why don't you give it to God?

00:16:07.980 I said, I don't want to give it to God.

00:16:09.000 I want to give it to you.

00:16:09.920 And you are not carrying it right.

00:16:11.980 So I keep taking it back.

00:16:13.720 So I'm like, OK, the breasts aren't working.

00:16:15.780 So I get in the shower.

00:16:17.520 And I'm trying to relax.

00:16:18.780 I'm like, relax, relax.

00:16:20.420 And Allie, I had not sensed the spirit of God.

00:16:24.940 I had not.

00:16:25.680 Like, I could read the Bible.

00:16:26.940 But it was like I was reading it.

00:16:28.000 And it just wasn't even going into my head.

00:16:29.600 I don't know if you've ever been in that season where you're just so you and so not yielded.

00:16:34.940 And so I'm in the shower.

00:16:37.740 I'm like, God, I just am so stressed.

00:16:39.820 And I heard.

00:16:41.100 I heard.

00:16:41.860 And I don't know how people feel about this.

00:16:44.800 But it was a moment.

00:16:46.320 I heard the question.

00:16:48.020 You don't think John's a good head of the household, do you?

00:16:50.860 And I thought, I know he's not.

00:16:53.900 You think you can do it better?

00:16:55.900 I thought, I know I can do it better.

00:16:57.580 He said, it's a yoke to you, Lisa, but it's a mantle to John.

00:17:04.180 Throw it off your shoulders.

00:17:06.100 And I thought, if I throw it off my shoulders, nothing is ever going to get done.

00:17:10.700 And all of a sudden, Allie, all the times that I had been disrespectful and dishonoring

00:17:17.320 and I would even say emasculating of my husband came back into my mind.

00:17:23.420 And what I thought was so funny in the moment was heartbreaking.

00:17:27.240 And I started crying in the shower.

00:17:29.580 And I thought, no wonder why we don't feel close anymore.

00:17:33.520 No wonder why when we're praying together, I'm thinking, why is he holding my hand so

00:17:36.960 tight?

00:17:37.540 Like, why does he never pray about this?

00:17:39.540 I was even critical when he was praying.

00:17:42.260 So I come out.

00:17:43.460 I'm like, John, I am so sorry.

00:17:47.680 I will quit my job tomorrow.

00:17:49.900 I just want to be one.

00:17:51.520 And I remember John said, Lisa, you don't have to quit your job.

00:17:54.560 But I do think you need to quit thinking you're the source.

00:17:57.860 And he said, you can work full time and know God is your source and you'll be at peace.

00:18:03.800 Or you can be a stay-home mom and think you're the source and you won't.

00:18:07.840 And Allie, I discovered in that moment that all my husband had ever known, well, and I'm

00:18:12.800 just going to preface this, he was the only son of an Italian mother.

00:18:17.900 And he had five sisters.

00:18:19.720 So it was like, my son, my son.

00:18:21.600 She did everything for him.

00:18:23.100 And so all he'd ever known was a mother.

00:18:25.960 And I treated him like he was a child.

00:18:29.200 And so I had to step back.

00:18:32.780 And I had to say, instead of using my strengths to say, look how smart I am, I'm going to actually

00:18:39.120 speak to the man that I want to see.

00:18:43.080 And I remember he would say, what do you think we should do?

00:18:45.460 I'd be like, you'll do the right thing.

00:18:48.840 And in my head, I was like, he's not going to do the right thing.

00:18:51.160 You better tell him.

00:18:52.220 But I had to rebuild a confidence that I had in him.

00:18:58.000 And when I was like, God, I don't know if I trust John.

00:19:00.800 Because you don't have to trust John.

00:19:02.680 You have to trust me.

00:19:04.160 And that's the beautiful thing.

00:19:05.920 When we are rightly positioned with God, God watches over us.

00:19:11.920 I think it's pretty amazing that God says, if you do not treat your wife right, God won't

00:19:19.420 hear your prayers.

00:19:20.660 I mean, that's what he said.

00:19:21.540 You're joint heirs in Christ.

00:19:23.960 So God watches over not just his sons, but also his daughters.

00:19:29.080 And I watched my whole marriage change.

00:19:31.580 And I watched my husband go from being a boy to a man when I stopped being his mother

00:19:35.820 and I started to be his wife.

00:19:37.640 So did that look like practically holding your tongue when you wanted to criticize, letting

00:19:43.540 go of some expectations you had?

00:19:45.900 Because I imagine that his behavior didn't necessarily change overnight.

00:19:50.040 Maybe he still wasn't dropping off the baby at the right time.

00:19:52.620 Maybe he still wasn't taking out the trash the way that you wanted him to.

00:19:56.460 But I'm guessing the dynamic still changed because of the choices that you were making.

00:20:00.580 Well, he always, this is what he used to say.

00:20:03.540 He said, I feel like I used to supernaturally forget to take out the trash.

00:20:07.920 And he said, as soon as you did that, I started to remember, because I remember we had a baby

00:20:12.640 and we didn't even have a washer and a dryer.

00:20:14.840 So I'm working full time.

00:20:16.220 I'm going down to the laundromat in our apartment complex.

00:20:19.260 And I remember I came home from work and John again was working part time.

00:20:22.860 I have a baby.

00:20:23.980 And John's like, hey, hey, can you get something out of the filing cabinet?

00:20:27.800 And I thought, I just walked in.

00:20:29.400 Are you serious?

00:20:29.860 And so, you know, the old me would have said, you get it.

00:20:33.040 You've been sitting home.

00:20:34.720 But I just felt, shh.

00:20:36.540 And I opened up the louvered doors to where we'd kept our filing cabinet.

00:20:41.460 And he'd gone out and bought a washer and dryer.

00:20:43.820 And it was like he, all of a sudden, his heart turned to me when I turned back to him.

00:20:48.900 And I know that, you know, I have a husband who loves God.

00:20:51.900 And I know that, you know, there's women out there that have a very different situation. 0.99

00:20:56.000 But Allie, it shifted everything for me.

00:21:00.200 And I had parents that were married, divorced, remarried each other, divorced again.

00:21:05.320 I did not know how to love well.

00:21:08.000 And I feel like there's an entire generation of young women who've been sent the message,

00:21:13.220 submission is a doormat.

00:21:15.020 Submission means that you'll be dominated. 0.96

00:21:17.880 The patriarchy is going to stomp you into the ground. 1.00

00:21:20.740 Submission.

00:21:21.340 But here's the thing.

00:21:22.500 I submit to Jesus.

00:21:23.540 And he doesn't stomp me into the ground.

00:21:27.760 Jesus actually speaks his life and his fulfillment into me.

00:21:33.940 He loves me into a place of wholeness.

00:21:37.020 I love how the message, some people call it paraphrase, some call it translation, but it

00:21:41.800 talks about how the husband is to love the wife.

00:21:43.860 It says, he washes her with the water of the word to evoke her beauty.

00:21:48.320 And I feel like that is such a beautiful picture of what Jesus does for us and what my husband

00:21:55.820 does for me.

00:21:57.220 And I've met your husband.

00:21:58.740 He's precious.

00:21:59.860 And now he's got all these girls to take care of.

00:22:03.080 But yeah, no, I feel like there's been a whole breakdown of, you know, well, we're equal.

00:22:08.860 Yeah, we're equal.

00:22:09.960 We're equal in value.

00:22:11.860 But that doesn't mean that our roles are exactly the same.

00:22:15.620 Speak to that woman who isn't married to a Christian man, because they might be thinking,

00:22:23.000 okay, yeah, maybe you didn't have the perfect husband, but he still loved you and loved God.

00:22:28.320 Maybe they're married to someone, whether he professes to be a Christian or not, who does 0.99

00:22:32.720 believe that headship and leadership means micromanaging, means demeaning, you know, doesn't

00:22:39.480 actually mean service, as we read in Ephesians 5, but he thinks that it means, you know, tearing

00:22:46.780 someone down.

00:22:47.820 What does it look like for her? 0.87

00:22:50.180 Well, first of all, I mean, I think she has every right to go to him and say, I love you

00:22:56.460 and I want to be the best wife for you.

00:22:59.580 But this is what it feels like when you say and you do those kind of things.

00:23:05.620 And I want to know how we can move beyond that.

00:23:10.940 You know, we just did a marriage retreat.

00:23:14.600 And last night I got a text from one of the couples, and they're pastors.

00:23:18.320 And John and I said, often when a couple has gone through things like what you're describing

00:23:24.700 with his wife, you close your spirit off to the person, you just build these walls and

00:23:30.180 slowly and surely you wall them out.

00:23:33.640 And we just had people pray that, God, if there's anything I've closed off my spirit to

00:23:41.000 my husband or to my wife, you know, can you open that heart back up?

00:23:46.440 Can you bring love back?

00:23:48.540 But what I had to do, and again, my husband was godly, but that doesn't mean he always had

00:23:53.960 his priorities right.

00:23:55.720 And John used to travel a ton.

00:23:58.520 And sometimes, Allie, he'd only be home three days a month.

00:24:02.100 And I remember when he would come home, we got him at his worst.

00:24:06.440 He was tired.

00:24:07.480 It was basically a laundry drop off.

00:24:09.160 And then he left again.

00:24:10.420 And my teenage son was like, Mom, Dad's never here.

00:24:15.840 He's never here.

00:24:16.260 I need someone to talk to.

00:24:18.420 And I was like, wow.

00:24:19.760 And so I tried to say something to John.

00:24:21.620 And John was like, well, I just felt like pressure to him.

00:24:24.420 So I remember I called one of my board members.

00:24:26.380 And I said, I don't, he's not wrong that he wants this.

00:24:30.920 I don't know what to do.

00:24:32.880 And he asked me, this board member was so wise.

00:24:35.640 He's probably 75 now.

00:24:37.160 And he said, does Addison want to get married one day?

00:24:40.440 And I thought, he's 14.

00:24:41.780 Like, what kind of question is that?

00:24:43.420 I said, yeah, I think he does.

00:24:44.740 And he said, tell him he's going to be processing his whole life with a woman.

00:24:51.800 And he can start now with you.

00:24:54.080 And it was like, instead of my son seeing it as a loss.

00:24:58.080 But I remember I was angry with my husband.

00:25:01.080 And I was coming to God.

00:25:02.360 And I'm like, I am so frustrated.

00:25:03.640 He's never here.

00:25:04.500 My boys need him.

00:25:05.360 He doesn't help with this.

00:25:06.880 And all I heard back when I was praying was, tell me I'm enough for you, Lisa.

00:25:11.020 It's like, wait, I don't want to tell you you're enough for me because I know what happens.

00:25:14.980 That means John's not changing.

00:25:16.580 So I just wouldn't say it, Allie. 0.86

00:25:18.000 It was like, no, Lord, please tell me he's going to change.

00:25:20.380 Please tell me he's going to turn his heart more to his kids.

00:25:22.900 Please, he's going to turn his heart more towards me.

00:25:25.000 It won't be all about ministry.

00:25:26.580 God, please tell me.

00:25:27.800 Just kept hearing, tell me I'm enough for you.

00:25:29.480 And so I started to surrender and say, God, you are more than enough for me.

00:25:35.340 And that woman at home who feels this void with her husband, who does not know how to

00:25:42.020 love her well, she can have that same prayer.

00:25:45.440 And she can say, Jesus, you're enough for me.

00:25:49.040 And I know it's a scary thing to pray, but there's something that happens in your heart

00:25:52.860 where you're not living in a famine, but you're living in an overflow of God's love and his

00:26:01.080 presence.

00:26:02.420 And in that place, you're going to find out that even though you're not being poured into

00:26:07.440 by your husband, you have more to pour out.

00:26:10.200 Did John end up changing?

00:26:12.500 Yes, he did.

00:26:13.620 But it, I mean, here's the thing.

00:26:16.640 I, you know, I don't know if this is different in your house.

00:26:18.880 I can ask, I can ask John, I can tell God, Hey, I need John to do this.

00:26:24.340 And the only person God talks to me about is me.

00:26:26.120 He's like, how about you do that?

00:26:28.440 Yeah, he did.

00:26:29.560 He did.

00:26:30.460 And my heart was ready when he, I mean, he came home from a trip and he just said, I have

00:26:37.860 been so selfish.

00:26:39.700 I have had the wrong, everything I would have hoped that he would hear from me, he heard

00:26:46.400 from God.

00:26:47.340 Yeah.

00:26:47.780 And he said, I'm so thankful for you.

00:26:49.540 I'm so thankful for the boys.

00:26:50.580 And, you know, Allie, I don't know if you know this, my oldest son, my youngest son,

00:26:53.740 and six of my grandkids live 30 seconds from me.

00:26:56.580 And we work with our oldest son and our youngest son.

00:26:59.000 So I feel like we lost some time there, but God has given us length of days with our children.

00:27:04.400 That's really beautiful.

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00:28:03.780 When it comes to the roles of male and female in marriage, you've laid out really beautifully

00:28:10.760 what I think you would describe as complementarianism.

00:28:13.540 Like, it's, I mean, I'm kind of like, I don't, I don't buy into egalitarian all the way.

00:28:19.700 Right.

00:28:20.240 Um, I kind of sometimes feel like a complementarian and an egalitarian got married and had a baby,

00:28:27.400 but I don't know what that title would be.

00:28:29.400 But yes, I would say roles in a marriage for sure, complementarian.

00:28:32.700 Yes.

00:28:33.700 And in church, we've talked about this privately, how we probably land in different places,

00:28:39.900 although we agree on the principle of the authority of scripture.

00:28:42.780 The difference between male and female and the different roles within the church of male

00:28:46.360 and female.

00:28:46.800 I think we actually agree on that.

00:28:48.780 But there will be some people I've got, you know, a big conservative reformed crowd who

00:28:52.760 will say what she is a charismatic.

00:28:56.620 False teacher.

00:28:57.420 Preaches to me.

00:28:58.020 There may be some people who say false teacher.

00:29:00.160 Maybe they, we, cause we talked about this.

00:29:02.460 I haven't seen this, but you said that some people have called you prosperity gospel.

00:29:06.700 Which was shocking.

00:29:07.780 Yes.

00:29:08.240 And we can talk about all of those different things just in case there's someone out there who's

00:29:11.720 like, wait, I might've heard that, but I don't really know.

00:29:13.940 But let's start with, since we're talking about the roles of male and female, what you

00:29:18.240 believe the roles of male and female are when it comes to the church, when it comes to preaching.

00:29:22.340 Yeah.

00:29:22.720 And I feel like it, I feel like the house, the household of the church is reflect, I feel like it reflects.

00:29:31.840 So I feel like the senior pastor, I'm the most comfortable with senior pastors being men.

00:29:37.980 And I don't believe that women have no voice, but I believe they have the voice of a mother in, in the church.

00:29:44.760 And so I am not a pastor.

00:29:47.720 I do not lead a church.

00:29:49.900 I, if I get invited to speak at a church, I don't see that as exercising authority because

00:29:56.320 I'm not doing church discipline.

00:29:57.960 I'm not appointing elders.

00:29:59.820 I'm serving.

00:30:01.140 And I'm under the authority of the pastor who asked me to come and maybe speak on marriage

00:30:06.140 or speak on gender identity or, you know, and so I'm not there going, listen, I'm the

00:30:11.060 boss of your world right now.

00:30:12.100 So it's different.

00:30:13.560 And I guess that to me, there's a big difference between preaching and pastoring.

00:30:19.100 So there's a difference between fivefold ministry and ministering as a believer and making disciples

00:30:28.600 and sharing what God has done in your life.

00:30:31.580 And so that's where I've landed.

00:30:34.260 So I, but I know that reform was a lot more hard line on those things.

00:30:39.240 And I'm not, I respect that.

00:30:43.200 I don't think it's an issue of salvation.

00:30:46.740 Yeah.

00:30:47.140 I would not say it's an issue of salvation either.

00:30:49.300 We did talk about this.

00:30:50.460 I think when we were at dinner, when you look at first Timothy 2, 12, I do not permit a woman 1.00

00:30:55.520 to teach or to exercise authority over a man.

00:30:58.160 Rather, she is to remain quiet.

00:30:59.720 Obviously this is in context of the local church.

00:31:02.040 How do you, what do you take that to mean?

00:31:03.620 Well, it's interesting.

00:31:04.380 How did that, how did that start?

00:31:06.400 I do not permit a woman. 1.00

00:31:07.780 So he doesn't say God does not permit.

00:31:09.800 Paul said, I do not.

00:31:10.920 And it's interesting to me.

00:31:12.660 I think he was very focused on not just that moment.

00:31:19.740 He was like, here's the culture and the women are uneducated. 1.00

00:31:25.040 They were not trained.

00:31:26.840 And he's like, I do not permit this.

00:31:29.620 And, you know, there's the Greek culture.

00:31:31.320 There's the Roman culture and again, teaching and talking. 0.99

00:31:35.920 Like if we're going to be legalistic about it, women need to stop talking the second they 1.00

00:31:40.240 enter the building.

00:31:41.140 Like they need to be passing notes if they have to remain silent in the church.

00:31:44.580 So it's, to me, the pulpit didn't even start till a thousand years ago.

00:31:50.020 So Paul, it was a very different situation.

00:31:53.140 But again, you know, Allie, I respect other people's sensitivity to the things of the spirit.

00:31:58.800 But, you know, the first time I ever did a Sunday morning service, I was a nervous wreck.

00:32:03.180 I was sweating.

00:32:04.100 I was like, am I sinning?

00:32:05.640 Am I sinning?

00:32:06.700 I don't want to sin.

00:32:07.920 I want to honor God with all of my heart.

00:32:10.220 And I had to really wrestle with that because I always just said no.

00:32:15.160 I would say, no, no, no, no.

00:32:16.460 I'm, you know, thank you for asking me, but I'm going to take my own kids to church on

00:32:19.400 Sunday morning.

00:32:20.320 My husband's not, not there to take them.

00:32:22.440 So, you know, everybody needs to find out.

00:32:25.200 But I also feel like we're at an Acts 2.17 moment.

00:32:28.540 In the last days, God says, I'll pour up my spirit on all flesh and your sons and your 1.00

00:32:33.060 daughters will prophesy. 0.90

00:32:34.580 And not, I don't believe prophesy is like, get up and, you know, you're going to have a

00:32:38.940 boat or whatever.

00:32:39.920 I believe it's to speak under divine inspiration.

00:32:42.960 And so I believe in the last days, it looks a little different than it does in the first

00:32:48.180 days.

00:32:48.520 And just to clarify where I stand, because there might not, there might be people who

00:32:52.900 don't know.

00:32:53.860 One, of course, I consider Lisa a sister in Christ and I wouldn't have her on if I didn't

00:33:00.140 believe in her wisdom and appreciate her so much.

00:33:04.300 I do not read the scripture as permitting a woman to preach before men in church.

00:33:10.920 Now, there are people who would expand that even more who would say that I should not even

00:33:15.260 have this podcast because it is preaching.

00:33:17.940 And I've seen you speaking to mixed audiences.

00:33:19.960 Yes.

00:33:20.160 And so, but that's what I would say.

00:33:22.440 I would say that it is not just an individual preference from Paul because it is in the word

00:33:29.080 of God.

00:33:30.460 And so I wouldn't see the use of the pronoun I as discounting this as God's authority.

00:33:36.260 But I certainly don't see it as a salvation issue.

00:33:39.080 But I have talked about this before.

00:33:40.900 I don't believe in women preaching, even if I do really agree with that. 1.00

00:33:45.240 That appreciate the content of what is being said.

00:33:50.540 And so, do you consider yourself charismatic?

00:33:53.880 Yeah.

00:33:54.240 So here's the thing.

00:33:55.600 John and I are both born again Catholics.

00:33:57.200 We both got born again through Campus Crusade.

00:34:00.220 And I just never heard the gospel, Allie.

00:34:03.620 Former Catholics. 0.94

00:34:04.620 You don't consider yourself Catholic.

00:34:05.560 No.

00:34:06.020 Well, like former Catholics. 0.95

00:34:08.200 Yes.

00:34:08.880 So we're both practicing Catholics.

00:34:10.720 John practicing me just going to confession before I got on airplanes.

00:34:14.940 Right.

00:34:15.800 So I had never heard the gospel, got born again through Campus Crusade.

00:34:21.720 And then, yes, we believe in the infilling of the Holy Spirit, but we believe that anybody

00:34:27.960 that is born again is filled with the Spirit.

00:34:32.000 Now, it's interesting.

00:34:33.840 We are too evangelical for the Pentecostal world, which would be kind of the charismatic

00:34:39.860 Pentecostal world over here.

00:34:41.500 And what makes you too evangelical for the Pentecostal world?

00:34:44.240 Because we're very much about Scripture and not about experientials.

00:34:47.480 So there's kind of that, like, John has a tendency to preach on the fear of the Lord.

00:34:55.400 He has a tendency to preach on forgiveness.

00:34:58.280 He has a tendency to preach, I would say, the hard truths.

00:35:02.040 And so there's, they'll kind of think, oh, you guys are legalistic.

00:35:06.760 Like, so they'll say we're too legalistic.

00:35:08.800 And then you come over here to reform and they'll say we're, no, you guys are too charismatic.

00:35:14.540 So I, you know, I've always preferred to be non-denominational or say I'm spirit-filled,

00:35:20.160 but that's, I see you as spirit-filled, you know?

00:35:23.360 So I don't feel like whether you speak in tongues or not should be divisive.

00:35:31.260 Yeah, there's like a little bit of a difference in language and maybe even agreement too when

00:35:36.720 it comes to how the Lord speaks to us.

00:35:39.160 Now, I would not say, oh, I heard the Lord say, or I heard the Lord audibly because there's

00:35:47.180 just such an emphasis on Scripture.

00:35:49.560 But that's not, that's not to say that I don't believe that the Lord can convict someone

00:35:54.980 a certain way that they don't explicitly read those words in the Bible, as long as it is

00:35:59.920 in agreement with Scripture.

00:36:02.060 And I have heard you say, and many of my Christian friends say, I heard God say this to me.

00:36:07.380 Yeah.

00:36:07.840 And I just said that about, you know, you don't think John's a good head of the household.

00:36:11.540 So I would actually love you to tell me, how do I position that where it's non-offensive?

00:36:16.760 Oh, I don't think that you should worry about that.

00:36:19.320 I wouldn't worry about positioning it in a way that is not necessarily, that is not offensive.

00:36:24.020 I think that I do always, I'm always going to be a little bit, if someone says, God told

00:36:31.940 me, I'm going to, like, my ears are going to perk up.

00:36:35.180 Well, that's pulling the God card.

00:36:36.100 Yes.

00:36:36.260 Yes.

00:36:36.620 And I'm not saying that this was you, but my ears are always going to perk up to make

00:36:40.960 sure that whatever that person says God told them is in complete alignment with Scripture.

00:36:47.280 Because obviously, if God says, well, God told me to sleep with my boyfriend, or God told

00:36:51.980 me that it was okay for me to do this, even though his Bible says otherwise, then obviously

00:36:56.980 that's going, that's going to be a problem.

00:36:59.660 And so, yeah, there is, there is a difference there, but I've had a lot of charismatics on

00:37:03.380 that have talked about different things like speaking in tongues and deliverance.

00:37:06.200 And I was raised Southern Baptist, not charismatic at all.

00:37:09.760 It was like a big deal.

00:37:10.620 If I saw someone raise their hand in church to worship, my mom would be like, mom, get

00:37:15.820 your hand down.

00:37:16.480 What are you doing?

00:37:17.120 Um, so like very different backgrounds, but I charismatics and I would say reformed people.

00:37:23.460 We do agree on like some really important things.

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00:38:27.400 I would say one criticism that reformed has is that charismatic people are more health and

00:38:31.540 wealth.

00:38:31.840 And you were very surprised that people have labeled you as that.

00:38:34.700 Yeah.

00:38:34.820 I think they just, I think they just put you over there.

00:38:37.320 Whether you, whether they ever heard you say anything that said that, um, matter of fact,

00:38:44.840 I got, and again, going back to like, how do you get into, I, you know, when the whole

00:38:49.760 craziness that we talked about, the tragic baby dying, I had said, Hey, God is always a

00:38:57.580 healer, but you don't get to tell them how.

00:38:59.580 And they said, Oh, you're talking about, in case people don't know, Bethel, Olive, we

00:39:04.620 talked about that a few years ago, like probably five years ago.

00:39:07.560 It was, it was that long.

00:39:08.980 Wow.

00:39:09.460 I knew it was like during 2020.

00:39:11.580 It was during.

00:39:11.980 Oh, okay.

00:39:12.300 Maybe it was last May.

00:39:13.240 Well, 2020 is almost five years ago, which is crazy.

00:39:15.580 Which is, but I remember I, I said, he, he can heal through doctors.

00:39:19.880 He can heal through like lifestyle changes.

00:39:24.540 He can heal through natural stuff and he can heal by taking us home.

00:39:28.400 And people were furious at me.

00:39:30.480 And I said, what, do you think that when we go to heaven, that is the first time we're

00:39:35.880 completely whole.

00:39:36.860 And so they're like, no, he always heals supernaturally.

00:39:40.240 And I'm like, no, he doesn't always heal supernaturally, but he can.

00:39:45.220 But, and, and that's, I think where like John and I would be considered, oh no, you

00:39:49.340 guys aren't like, and I've, and I've had pretty strong conversations with, um, what

00:39:56.740 I would call extra biblical people.

00:39:58.700 I'd tell you guys, you're, you're adding, you're not, there's, I don't believe they're

00:40:02.800 evil Allie, but I believe they can add. 0.99

00:40:05.020 And so John and I, if it is not in agreement with the word of God or the spirit of the word

00:40:10.200 of God, cause you know, there's sometimes there's things like it, you know, you can't

00:40:13.500 find in the Bible, uh, certain things, but you can find the spirit of that.

00:40:19.340 And so, and even when I said about Paul saying, I, you know, Paul was like, don't get married.

00:40:24.500 I, Paul said, don't get married.

00:40:26.680 So like, I'm just saying there's things that sometimes you say, now, was this God talking

00:40:32.980 or him saying, I'm very concerned that women are going to be, uh, arrested and beaten, or

00:40:39.000 they don't know what they're talking about, or they're bringing in crazy Greek goddess things 0.82

00:40:43.200 into mixing it into the gospel.

00:40:45.100 Like we don't think we, and again, I, I am with you on, I have seen all sorts of abuse

00:40:53.020 and misuse of scripture and experience.

00:40:57.500 I've been in meetings where there's not even been one single scripture shared and it was

00:41:03.120 all an experience.

00:41:03.940 I'm like, what just happened here?

00:41:05.300 And the scripture that talks about, you know, Eve was deceived first and then Adam, like

00:41:12.980 some of the prohibition against women exercising authority, being in that position of shepherd 0.98

00:41:20.040 of a flock in a church has to do with what we see in creation, what we see through the

00:41:25.140 fall.

00:41:25.920 Paul goes all the way back there.

00:41:27.840 How do you see that reality manifesting itself today?

00:41:32.440 That it does seem like women in some ways, at least are more susceptible to this kind

00:41:38.780 of deception, even the deception of gender ideology. 0.99

00:41:41.580 Well, it even says that these are the foolish, the women that are taken captive. 1.00

00:41:45.680 Yeah. 1.00

00:41:45.940 Yeah.

00:41:46.140 I mean, I, like I wrote about that.

00:41:47.960 I mean, I am, Ali, I am with you.

00:41:50.540 First of all, if we are not in the word of God, we're going to all be subject to deception,

00:41:57.220 male or female.

00:41:58.600 We have to know the word.

00:42:00.760 And so many Christians have gotten so lazy with reading the word. 0.77

00:42:05.560 They read post.

00:42:07.140 They do not read the word.

00:42:08.960 And you and I know that you need to read the word of God and it rightly divides. 1.00

00:42:14.020 It comes in and it separates soul from, you know, thought and intent, joint and marrow.

00:42:19.360 It comes in and it rightly divides.

00:42:20.920 And we live in a time period where there's a lot of things that sound right, but feel

00:42:26.780 wrong.

00:42:27.800 And the word of God comes in and tells you, oh, Ali, why you're uncomfortable with that

00:42:31.900 is because of this.

00:42:33.620 And you heard, like, you know, we've seen this.

00:42:36.500 And so if women are led by their emotions, then they are going to be taken captive. 1.00

00:42:43.560 But if women are led by the Holy Spirit, and to me, there's this beautiful thing here where

00:42:49.920 you see, yes, Eve was deceived, but Adam knew what he was doing.

00:42:54.760 And so he willingly, he willingly did that.

00:42:58.200 But then we see in the New Testament that God overshadows an old woman, Elizabeth and Mary.

00:43:05.540 And he brings this promise.

00:43:07.960 And you see this older woman and this younger woman, and they're just prophesying to one 0.96

00:43:12.680 another about Jesus, about Emmanuel, about the prophet, John the Baptist, and about the

00:43:19.080 promise coming.

00:43:20.100 And there's this beautiful symphony of God's redemption on godly women.

00:43:25.200 And so I feel like God is like, hey, I'm bringing back what was lost in the garden.

00:43:33.780 And it's not that, you know, he's like, oh, we don't need male or female.

00:43:37.980 But I do feel like if women can be led just by their feelings, I also will say this is funny.

00:43:44.060 So I'm 64.

00:43:45.640 But I went through menopause when I was probably 57.

00:43:49.900 And I'm going to tell you, when you were going through menopause, there is a crazy person

00:43:55.160 in your head saying things like, you need to start yelling on this airplane right now

00:43:58.800 and tell him to get the jet bridge out. 1.00

00:44:00.360 You need to punch her husband in the face. 1.00

00:44:02.300 And I'm like, oh, no, no, no, crazy woman. 1.00

00:44:04.460 You may not talk. 0.98

00:44:06.540 So it's even worse than like PMS or like when you're a teenager.

00:44:09.840 It's like PMS for two years straight.

00:44:11.680 Oh, my gosh.

00:44:12.540 So I had to read the word. 0.99

00:44:15.760 Like I had to be like, you crazy woman, I shut you down. 1.00

00:44:18.900 I will read the word of God and I cannot react emotionally. 0.98

00:44:23.600 I need to be, I need to have the guardrails of God's word and the Holy Spirit.

00:44:30.500 That's really good.

00:44:32.060 I even notice in myself when I go a period of time without reading the Bible as much,

00:44:37.420 that I find myself more susceptible to lies, not only personal lies, of course,

00:44:44.040 like my own personal temptation towards like anger or jealousy or bitterness or pride or

00:44:49.020 whatever it is.

00:44:49.940 But even like worldly lies that I should definitely know better.

00:44:53.540 I'm like, is that that big of a deal?

00:44:56.340 Does that really matter?

00:44:58.040 And then I kind of have to realize, oh, it's because I have been slacking in this area.

00:45:03.560 It's not like you lose the Holy Spirit or anything.

00:45:06.620 But you do lose your edge.

00:45:07.680 Yeah.

00:45:08.280 Well, your mind is no longer, it's not being renewed day by day by the word of God.

00:45:12.980 And whatever fills you controls you. 0.99

00:45:15.440 And so if you're filling your mind with garbage, you're going to be controlled by garbage and 0.99

00:45:20.620 it's going to be harder to discern. 0.99

00:45:23.700 And that's absolutely true.

00:45:24.440 And people just, they got used to being entertained during COVID.

00:45:27.800 We only have a few more minutes.

00:45:29.300 And one thing I wanted to make sure that we talked about and you've talked about before

00:45:33.480 is body image and your dad and your relationship with your body and how your dad affected that

00:45:42.700 growing up.

00:45:43.080 Because that does have to do with everything we're talking about with being a woman and

00:45:47.240 either embracing or repudiating our identity, all of that.

00:45:50.280 So talk to me about that.

00:45:51.740 So I was 15 years of age and I swam competitively from the time I was 5 to 18.

00:45:57.040 But I tore my Achilles tendon and I had to sit down, sit out one year.

00:46:01.180 And I ate like I was in training.

00:46:03.340 And I guess I chubbed up and didn't even know it.

00:46:05.940 I was just kind of like, oh.

00:46:07.720 So I came in from school one day.

00:46:10.440 My mom and my brother were out and my big, gruff, Sicilian dad sitting there in a chair 1.00

00:46:15.960 smoking a cigarette behind his newspaper.

00:46:18.700 And he said, come here.

00:46:20.660 I'm like, oh gosh, I'm in trouble.

00:46:22.560 I just always was scared of him.

00:46:24.120 And he's like, turn around, turn around. 0.99

00:46:25.640 And I turn around and he's like, oh my gosh, your butt is huge. 0.99

00:46:30.240 How much do you weigh? 0.99

00:46:31.140 And I was like, I said, well, at camp I weighed.

00:46:34.160 And I told him what I had weighed at camp that summer.

00:46:36.120 He's like, well, you're not at camp anymore.

00:46:37.280 Go back and weigh yourself right now.

00:46:39.380 And so I was like, I can weigh myself?

00:46:41.380 Like I didn't even know that was a thing.

00:46:43.840 And so I walked the hall of shame back to my parents' bathroom and I climbed up on the

00:46:49.440 scales.

00:46:49.860 And Allie, I was probably like 5'2".

00:46:53.400 And I was 20 pounds heavier than I am now.

00:46:56.680 And so I came back and I told my dad what I weighed and he just sat me down and he said,

00:47:01.020 you're fat. 0.96

00:47:02.260 No boys are going to ever like you. 1.00

00:47:04.000 You're not going to have a date.

00:47:05.500 You need to take care of this.

00:47:07.500 And I was like, yes, sir.

00:47:09.340 And I just walked back into my bedroom.

00:47:11.240 And I remember I pulled on my blinds.

00:47:13.940 I climbed up on the bed.

00:47:15.520 I stripped off all my clothes, stood in my bra and my underwear.

00:47:19.360 And I didn't have like a full length mirror.

00:47:21.300 So all I could see was like a headless reflection on myself.

00:47:24.480 And I hated my body.

00:47:28.520 It was for the first time I thought, that is my enemy.

00:47:33.220 That needs to be punished.

00:47:35.740 That needs to be shamed. 0.80

00:47:38.200 That needs to be taken care of.

00:47:39.900 And so that night, immediately started cutting back on food, started running in the snow

00:47:45.180 drifts in Indiana in my swim team, sweats, trying to lose the weight.

00:47:49.940 And as soon as I lost weight, I started to get positive affirmation.

00:47:56.340 Like my dad was like, good.

00:47:58.020 I'm glad you're losing weight.

00:47:59.420 Boys started paying attention.

00:48:01.500 I started, people started to say, oh, you look good.

00:48:03.240 Did you lose weight?

00:48:03.820 And at 15, I started to think, oh, if I'm thin, I deserve love.

00:48:10.640 If I'm thin, I'm successful.

00:48:13.760 If I'm thin, I'm in control of my life.

00:48:17.060 So what started at 15, though, started to accelerate.

00:48:21.280 Because I was living in Indiana.

00:48:23.440 And there's the corn-fed heifer thin.

00:48:25.200 And then I went out to the University of Arizona.

00:48:28.800 And University of Arizona has California girls. 1.00

00:48:31.680 And so now, all of a sudden, I was like, I'm not thin anymore.

00:48:34.760 And in my sorority, we all just would start to throw up after we ate, take diuretics, take

00:48:42.160 laxatives.

00:48:42.880 And I watched myself become captive to my own body.

00:48:51.100 And I know now, looking back at 15, when my father said those things to me, it was like

00:48:58.380 my soul and my body split.

00:49:01.900 And that was one voice, Allie.

00:49:03.800 I didn't have social media coming after me.

00:49:06.920 I've had a beautiful granddaughter.

00:49:08.860 I don't want her to live with the constant comparison of social media that is always saying

00:49:17.520 you're not thin enough, smart enough, pretty enough, filtered enough, whatever that not

00:49:22.740 enough is.

00:49:23.560 And I love that you're like, you're not enough.

00:49:26.240 That's okay.

00:49:27.240 I mean, because God is more than enough.

00:49:29.400 You know, but so yeah, so that became this thing.

00:49:32.420 And then I was hospitalized because I had just so abused my body.

00:49:39.320 And then I met Jesus.

00:49:41.440 And I met Jesus.

00:49:42.860 And I was like, I probably need to stop getting drunk.

00:49:46.400 So I transferred all my excessive drinking into excessive eating.

00:49:50.380 And I went back into overweight.

00:49:52.580 And I got engaged.

00:49:54.720 I bought a, I think it was like a size 10 wedding gown in the hope that I could get down into

00:49:59.300 it.

00:50:00.080 And I went in to get this lip.

00:50:02.380 And they couldn't even zip the dress shut.

00:50:04.300 And I came home.

00:50:05.880 And I remember, I was like mad.

00:50:08.060 Like, I become a Christian. 0.82

00:50:09.480 And now I'm fat.

00:50:10.240 Like, I had done God some big favor.

00:50:12.360 And I sensed.

00:50:15.080 And this is so crazy, because I had never heard any of this terminology.

00:50:18.680 And I had, I had only been saved a year.

00:50:20.940 I sensed the spirit saying, your weight and food is an idol to you.

00:50:30.400 It's what you draw your strength from.

00:50:32.540 And it's what you give your strength to.

00:50:34.240 And he said, I want you to go on a three-day fast.

00:50:39.160 He said, I want you to stop dining.

00:50:40.640 He said, wait, you just said to diet.

00:50:42.660 And he's like, no, no.

00:50:44.480 A diet changes the way you look.

00:50:47.460 But a fast changes the way you see.

00:50:49.720 And he said, you need to find out I am your source.

00:50:53.320 Not the refrigerator.

00:50:55.020 Not food.

00:50:56.400 Nothing.

00:50:56.780 But you, when you're sad or happy, you come to me instead of to that.

00:51:02.720 And I remember, I said, I don't even know what's a healthy weight anymore.

00:51:08.000 I was 5'7 at the time.

00:51:10.220 And I wanted to weigh 103 when I was at my worst.

00:51:13.520 And then I now, you know, was, I can't remember what I weighed at that time.

00:51:16.860 And I remember, I've sensed that God is the one who made me.

00:51:21.500 Not shape.

00:51:22.780 Not vogue.

00:51:24.060 Not glamour.

00:51:25.340 And I was like, God, what do you want me to weigh?

00:51:27.740 What do you, I don't know how to be healthy anymore.

00:51:29.820 And I wrote a number on a little piece of paper and I put it in my Bible.

00:51:34.760 And then I just walked and worshipped and I stopped being abusive to my body.

00:51:40.740 Stopped being angry at my body.

00:51:42.540 Started thanking God for my body.

00:51:45.060 You know, Romans 12, 1 and 2 says, present your body a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God.

00:51:52.660 But it's really hard to present something to God if you think it's wholly unacceptable, if you think it's less than.

00:52:02.500 And we worship God.

00:52:04.240 It's how we worship God with our body.

00:52:06.880 I was bought with a price.

00:52:08.540 My life is not my own.

00:52:09.480 My body is not my own.

00:52:11.080 It says glorify God with your body.

00:52:12.860 It's really hard to glorify God with something you hate.

00:52:15.120 And so I just walk and thank God for my body. 0.99

00:52:18.200 And, you know, at first it felt really stupid. 0.97

00:52:19.980 Like, thank God for my body. 0.99

00:52:21.220 Make it thin.

00:52:22.080 I was like, no, God, you wove me in my mother's womb fearfully and wonderfully.

00:52:28.120 First inside, then out.

00:52:30.340 You created me to be a woman.

00:52:33.740 I am thankful that I am a woman.

00:52:36.400 And I just watched God heal me.

00:52:39.360 It was a very short time period.

00:52:40.840 And he just said, you know, I was reading my Bible and I realized, oh, Sarah wasn't beautiful because she ran aerobics in the desert. 1.00

00:52:47.980 He said because she refused to give way to fear.

00:52:50.660 And when we yield to fear as women, our whole body metabolism changes.

00:52:56.900 And when we thank God and when we honor God and when we eat until we're satisfied and not until we're in pain.

00:53:03.440 And when we say, why am I eating?

00:53:05.220 Am I hungry?

00:53:06.060 Am I bored?

00:53:06.740 Am I angry?

00:53:07.340 Am I hurting?

00:53:07.800 When we can take those things to God, it just rebalanced everything.

00:53:15.760 Last sponsor for the day is Every Life.

00:53:18.000 Every Life is the only pro-life diaper company.

00:53:22.100 They believe that no matter how a baby is conceived, whether they are planned or unplanned, regardless of their socioeconomic background, that their life matters.

00:53:31.280 That they are made in the image of God.

00:53:33.260 They have dignity.

00:53:34.240 They deserve to be fought for.

00:53:35.560 And that is why they stand on these pro-life values, unlike a lot of other diaper companies that are actually donating to pro-abortion politicians.

00:53:44.880 Instead, with Every Life, you can support a company that is not only personally pro-life, but they're putting that into action.

00:53:51.420 You can buy a buy for a cause bundle.

00:53:53.760 They will donate resources to pregnant moms in need to help them choose life.

00:53:59.340 Plus, these are just awesome, effective diapers.

00:54:01.680 We use them in our home.

00:54:03.020 Their wipes, their diapers are awesome.

00:54:05.140 Totally clean and really work.

00:54:06.880 Go to everylife.com.

00:54:08.700 Use code Allie10 to enjoy a 10% discount on your first order.

00:54:12.600 That's everylife.com.

00:54:13.720 Code Allie10.

00:54:18.880 And this really does go with also the theme of your book.

00:54:22.200 I know that's not what your book is about, but you've said multiple-

00:54:24.640 Oh, I have a whole chapter on it.

00:54:25.640 Yes.

00:54:26.100 Yes.

00:54:27.100 And because this is, you know, it is pretty unique to women. 0.96

00:54:30.960 And it is all about realizing who our source is, who our satisfaction is, who the identity giver is.

00:54:38.900 Because just as he made our body in the womb, he designated our sex at the moment of conception.

00:54:45.240 Yeah, which is so beautiful.

00:54:46.060 All of that is so purposeful.

00:54:48.880 And so knowing whose we are changes not only how we eat, how we see our bodies, but also how we see being women. 0.70

00:54:55.860 Yeah, absolutely.

00:54:57.380 It's beautiful.

00:54:57.960 Well, thank you so much.

00:54:58.920 And I do, I really encourage people to go out and get your book to really have a theological understanding of what it means to be a woman.

00:55:07.440 Yeah, you do kind of talk about a topic that is political, but for the Christian, this is pre-political. 0.91

00:55:14.640 It's pre-civilizational because it goes back to the first chapter of the first book of the Bible.

00:55:19.840 And so thank you for being one of the only Christian women teachers who is willing to take on this subject.

00:55:27.140 Your boldness is an example for us, and I'm just grateful for it.

00:55:30.960 Thank you.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - December 23, 2024

Ep 1116 ｜ Women Preachers, The Roots of Feminism, & Battling Eating Disorders ｜ Guest： Lisa Bevere

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