Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - May 17, 2019


Ep 113 ｜ Virgil Walker — Abortion Exceptions？


Episode Stats

Length

30 minutes

Words per Minute

185.29597

Word Count

5,575

Sentence Count

284

Hate Speech Sentences

14


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Hey guys, happy Friday. Welcome to the podcast. Today we are going to talk to my friend Virgil
00:00:06.760 Walker of the Just Thinking podcast. You have probably heard of Just Thinking if you've been
00:00:11.800 listening to either their podcast or my podcast for a little bit. I had Daryl Harrison, who is
00:00:16.740 the co-host of Just Thinking. A few weeks ago, we talked about wokeness in the church and Virgil
00:00:23.040 Walker. His expertise is abortion. He does a lot for the pro-life cause. And so we're going to talk
00:00:30.960 about the legislation in Georgia and Alabama, this non-exception or this lack of exception in the
00:00:37.880 Alabama legislation for rape or incest, how we as Christians should view that, and really what we
00:00:44.040 should be doing on the front lines of the pro-life cause. Virgil, thanks so much for joining me.
00:00:49.800 Thank you for having me, Allie. Yeah. First, if you could just tell everyone who might not be
00:00:56.400 familiar who you are, what you do, and why you care so much about this issue of abortion.
00:01:04.120 Yeah. Well, I'm Virgil Walker, and I'm part and parcel of the Just Thinking podcast with Daryl
00:01:13.060 Harrison, the famed Daryl Harrison, Daryl Dangerous Harrison. You've interviewed him
00:01:19.280 on your podcast, and so I work side-by-side with him. I do a lot in the area of abortion. I've been
00:01:25.440 involved in abortion at the abortion mill for the last seven years or so, six or seven years,
00:01:32.320 doing sidewalk ministry and the like, and just an advocate of the pro-life position.
00:01:37.080 Okay. I gotcha. And you work for a church, correct?
00:01:41.460 Correct. Correct. Here in the Omaha area, absolutely.
00:01:44.420 Okay. I gotcha. So there's a lot of conversation going on about abortion right now. And this is
00:01:51.540 something that you and I share this passion for, the pro-life cause. I've heard you say before that
00:01:58.040 you are more of an abolitionist than a pro-lifer. So what do you mean by that?
00:02:03.260 Yeah. Definitely more of an abolitionist. I think that for the most part, I think the pro-lifers get
00:02:11.300 it right. But I think oftentimes we're involved in half measures or we're willing to cede ground
00:02:19.540 on the issue of incest and rape. I mean, you see that in the conversation. As I've been talking,
00:02:26.140 even over the course of the last few days with regard to this particular issue, what you find
00:02:30.320 is that most who argue the pro-life position have ceded the issue of rape and incest. I mean,
00:02:38.180 it's almost as if they want to, they want to steer clear of those two areas in the way of exception.
00:02:42.600 And what my thought is, it is, it's inconsistent. It's really inconsistent from a standpoint of a
00:02:48.220 biblical worldview. You know, the rape and incest thing has been brought up a lot this week because
00:02:53.940 of the Alabama legislation, the Georgia legislation, it made an exception for rape and incest. It said,
00:02:59.780 okay, a woman can still get an abortion up to 20 weeks in Georgia if she is a victim of rape or if
00:03:05.860 this is a consequence of incest. A lot of more, a lot of pro-lifers were probably a little bit more
00:03:11.460 comfortable with that, like you said. But Alabama says, sorry, no exceptions. And you see a lot of
00:03:17.520 people who call themselves pro-life saying, well, well, well, that's a little too far. So can you tell me
00:03:24.260 what you would say or how you would kind of confront that kind of caveat?
00:03:30.420 Yeah. I think, again, we have adopted, rather than holding to a biblical worldview of the sovereignty
00:03:36.940 of God and that He is the one who is the giver of life, we've decided that we're going to see that.
00:03:43.820 We're going to put that aside and adopt a secular view where we've elevated our feelings and emotions.
00:03:50.840 And again, I don't say that in a way to minimize a woman who's been traumatized by the issue of rape.
00:03:57.660 I think that's a horrific situation. And what we need to do with regard to the issue are to separate
00:04:03.300 the two things. One, we've got to separate the issue of the rape and look at that differently.
00:04:09.620 We've conflated the issue of the rape and the life of the child. We've conflated both issues and have
00:04:15.660 made the decision that they should both be treated in the same manner rather than recognizing that
00:04:21.560 they're two separate issues. The rapist, that situation needs to be adjudicated from a standpoint.
00:04:27.060 I love what your friend Ben Shapiro says, either castrated and or killed. Once that rapist has been
00:04:34.740 proven guilty, I think the worst harm should be done to that individual. But with regard to the life of
00:04:40.860 the child, we need to hold to a biblical worldview that says that the child is an image bearer of God
00:04:47.040 and is worthy of distinct value, dignity, and worth. And rather than adopting the ideas that the
00:04:53.900 world has given us with regard to feelings and emotion, we need to stop for just a moment,
00:04:59.360 recognize the value of the child, and realize the child has done nothing wrong deserving of death.
00:05:05.860 And I also think we need to think about how to amplify the culture that says that this is
00:05:14.160 shameful, that carrying a child born out of rape is a shameful situation. We need to recognize the
00:05:21.200 heroic nature of a woman who's gone through that difficult process and makes the decision to carry
00:05:28.120 a child to term. I was talking with a friend who mentioned the fact that we often quote Romans 8,
00:05:34.920 28, that God has given us all things to work together for His good, right? When we think about
00:05:43.340 that, most Christians who are pro-lifers would agree with the fact that we know that all things work
00:05:49.320 together for the good of them that love God and are called according to His purpose, except for in
00:05:53.740 the instance of incest and rape. Those are situations where we've got to realize the sovereignty of God.
00:05:59.920 He is the giver of life. And really think through that process, providing all the support necessary
00:06:06.400 for a woman so that she can bear the child and either make the choice of giving the child up for
00:06:12.860 adoption or keeping the child as a result. Is there anything that Christians need to be doing? I know
00:06:19.320 that you mentioned obviously sticking up for the personhood of the individual from the point of
00:06:23.740 conception, no matter the situation surrounding the conception of the child. Also taking care of
00:06:30.660 these moms, making sure that they have the real options that are available. Of course, keeping the
00:06:35.800 child, raising the child, adoption, whatever it is. Is there anything else Christians can be doing as far
00:06:43.080 as the adoption process? We hear a lot. Adoption is too expensive. The foster care system is terrible.
00:06:49.960 We hear this as an excuse kind of from the pro-choice side. Is there anything Christians can be doing in
00:06:55.680 those realms to make sure that truly it is as easy as it possibly can be for a woman to give birth to
00:07:02.340 a child and make sure that child is in a good home? Yeah, there are a lot of things that churches in
00:07:09.000 particular, believers can do to be supportive. I shared with you earlier, I do sidewalk ministry at
00:07:15.940 an abortion clinic. When I'm there, it is incredibly important to know that I've got an entire church
00:07:23.300 community around me that I can call at a moment's notice if something were to happen right there at
00:07:29.720 the location. Everything from providing a place to stay for that woman if she's in an abusive
00:07:34.940 situation, to providing food, to providing clothing, to providing every single need that she might have
00:07:40.700 up and into and through adoption. I think two thoughts. One is often pro-choicers try to use
00:07:49.320 the excuse that they can murder a child in the womb on the basis of the fact that someone's not
00:07:55.300 adopting that child. And that's a flawed argument. That's a false statement. That life is not a value
00:08:01.400 whether or not someone desires it or not. Secondly, Christians can do more. We often make
00:08:08.620 the claim that we are pro-life and yet all we do in a way of advocating that position is every four
00:08:15.780 years voting for the person who claims that they are going to be more pro-life than not. And we've
00:08:22.540 got to step up to do more. I'm thankful that I'm in a place and a space where there is that level of
00:08:28.700 support at the point of need. And we've got to look for ways to advocate, look for ways to be
00:08:34.200 uncomfortable, uh, where we can be in an effort to help these women who are really going through
00:08:39.620 some very difficult times. So can you offer any advice to the man or the woman who doesn't,
00:08:46.200 they don't know where to start. They, they don't know if there are any pregnancy clinics in their
00:08:50.520 area. They would love to have their church be involved in a pro-life ministry, but maybe their
00:08:55.040 church isn't. How did they start doing something like you're doing or just to start making that
00:09:01.000 connection between mothers in crisis and whatever sphere they're currently involved in?
00:09:07.600 Yeah. I completely appreciate the question that you asked because I remember at the point at which
00:09:13.840 I got interested in this issue, began to educate myself. My first thought was, where do I go? Like
00:09:19.100 I had no, no one to show me what it looked like to be on the sidewalk at an abortion clinic. And
00:09:24.840 while some people are willing to do that, others are not, there's all, there's all kinds of,
00:09:29.700 of pregnancy advocacy places in town where I live. There's, there's a sure, uh, women's clinic. We do,
00:09:36.000 they do a lot of great work. So you've got to find where, where there are organizations who are
00:09:41.140 already doing the work, where you can plug in, where you can be a part of. I think those kinds
00:09:47.120 of things are, are definitely important. We've got to seek those out and do more than simply every
00:09:52.680 four years vote for the, the, the, the person that we think is going to advocate for our position.
00:09:58.200 I'm, I'm even concerned. And, and, uh, Ali, I wanted to throw something back to you really quickly,
00:10:02.300 if I could, I, I, I'm, I'm concerned about, about where things go from here with regard to the
00:10:08.700 Supreme court. We know that this decision that's happened in Georgia was, was designed for the
00:10:13.740 purpose of getting thrown back into, uh, you know, the Supreme court to challenge Roe v. Wade. You
00:10:18.520 know, I, I don't, I don't know about you. I don't know that I have the confidence to believe that,
00:10:22.440 that things will be overturned. And I really think that most conservatives will be reeling
00:10:26.500 at that point. If, if indeed, you know, Roe v. Wade is not overturned based upon this case,
00:10:31.900 you, you have any thoughts about that? I would say considering how Kavanaugh has ruled on a few
00:10:38.380 other cases, not even involving Planned Parenthood or abortion. It looks like he's leaning further to
00:10:45.180 the left than a lot of us had hoped. Now he might call himself personally pro-life. We know that he's
00:10:50.860 Catholic. A lot of the Catholic community considers themselves pro-life, but sometimes you have some
00:10:56.720 cognitive dissonance where people say, well, I'm personally pro-life, but I don't want to limit the
00:11:01.160 rights of other people. I don't know if Kavanaugh falls into that camp. And so judging by Kavanaugh,
00:11:08.220 uh, I, I don't think that we are going to get the ruling on Roe v. Wade that we want. Now I could
00:11:15.680 psychoanalyze Kavanaugh and say, maybe it's because he wants to show the left who hated him so much
00:11:21.900 that he's really not going to do all the terrible things that he said that, or that they said he was
00:11:26.680 going to do. I'm not sure his motives behind that. And I can't predict necessarily what's going to
00:11:31.740 happen. I was more optimistic just at the thought of thinking, okay, we've got a, like you said, a more
00:11:39.440 pro-life than not, or a more pro-life than a Hillary Clinton president. And so we've got a few Supreme
00:11:45.980 court vacancies up for grabs. And so it's a possibility that this could happen, but unfortunately,
00:11:53.780 unfortunately, probably people like Kavanaugh and, and maybe, uh, some other conservative
00:11:59.620 justices too. I'm just not sure have bought into this lie that, you know, being all the way pro-life
00:12:06.460 is too extreme. It's too extreme. And maybe Planned Parenthood does do some good things and
00:12:12.440 it may be abortion in some cases is really compassionate. I like what you are saying
00:12:18.000 about being an abolitionist. I think too many people are scared to really say that, including
00:12:24.100 people in power. Do you agree? I completely agree. In fact, most of the conversations that I've had
00:12:29.460 since this legislation got enacted with Christians is, yeah, I'm pro-life, but I mean, that, that's,
00:12:36.960 it's, in fact, I mean, you, you could, you could say this, this is a new, I think this issue is
00:12:42.040 bringing up even the, the, the clarity of thought, or at least an opportunity for people to begin
00:12:46.540 thinking about their, their true position. And what I'm running into is this new category of
00:12:52.220 Christian calling themselves pro-life, but, and, and it's a shame because they're looking at it from
00:12:58.660 a, I believe from a secular perspective, rather than from a consistently biblical worldview, as we
00:13:06.160 talked about being image bearers of God. I think we've got to look at that. We've got to examine that
00:13:10.740 and even be willing to say how much of that was taught to us by our own quote unquote pro-life
00:13:15.900 movement. That's why I've, I've distanced myself a bit from saying I'm pro-life to telling people
00:13:20.220 I'm an abolitionist. While I recognize that that has its own connotation to it, because there's a
00:13:26.280 group out there and, and doing some different things that I disagree with. I do agree from a
00:13:32.760 standpoint of, we need to be all about the abolition of abortion. And that means not just
00:13:39.160 legislatively, but also in creating a culture of life to make, I've heard this phrase before,
00:13:44.860 and I really like it, making abortion unthinkable or as unthinkable as possible. There's
00:13:50.120 always going to be evil in the world. There's always going to be people that insist upon killing
00:13:54.940 their child for whatever desperate, you know, reason they feel like they have. That's always
00:14:00.240 going to exist. No law can outlaw all kinds or every single kind of evil, but legislatively,
00:14:07.980 and also in what you're doing and what a lot of people are doing is making sure these women are
00:14:13.100 cared for. I think the biggest myth that we hear from pro-choicers is that people who don't like
00:14:18.980 abortion are only pro what they call forced birth, that we're only for birthing the child. And then
00:14:26.580 we want to abandon the child. And they usually say that's because we don't agree with their
00:14:33.200 government programs or we don't agree with all the stuff that, that they believe the government
00:14:38.520 should be doing. So we must not really be pro-life. I think I know what you're going to say,
00:14:43.280 but what do you say in response to that? Well, one, that there's never justified reason to end
00:14:49.780 the life of a child. First of all, never justified reason. But more times than not, I mean,
00:14:56.100 the people that I know who care the most in those instances and who are willing to care are not folks
00:15:01.940 advocating for, for the death of a child in the womb. It's those of us who are believers,
00:15:07.400 who are advocating for life, who are willing to help, who are reaching out and trying to do
00:15:13.520 more than, you know, than, than others to see a child taken care of. One of the things that's been
00:15:19.960 interesting to me as well, in addition to, to, to the rhetoric is the, the lack of, of, of the arguments
00:15:29.460 that are being made from the other side. I mean, they, they just, they have no substance to them
00:15:33.600 whatsoever. They, they are either ad hominem attacks or genetic fallacies rather than anything
00:15:40.760 substantive that really anchor our position. Like if I'm going to argue with someone, I'm going to at
00:15:46.540 least want to make sure that I'm, I'm properly categorizing what they believe. I'm properly
00:15:51.800 articulating what they believe. And none of them understand that at the end of the day, the argument
00:15:56.460 that we're, that we're positing is this is a human life and, and we need to treat the human life in
00:16:02.720 the womb in the same way that we would treat a human life at any other stage of development. No one
00:16:08.120 seems to get that on the other side. And so they're coming up. And I know you saw that the argument
00:16:12.720 about these white men who advocated this position. I wondered your thoughts about that as well.
00:16:18.840 Yeah. Well, neither of us are white men and we are, we are having this conversation and I think
00:16:24.760 it's just a way you said so many good things there. And one of the things that I just wonder,
00:16:30.760 and you don't want to assume always bad motives on the other, on the, on the side of the people
00:16:37.260 that you are disagreeing with. It's I think particularly hard to do that with abortion,
00:16:40.860 just because the other side, the reality that they're advocating for, whether they know it or
00:16:45.200 not is so grotesque and is so black and white, uh, that it's really difficult not to assume bad
00:16:51.700 motives. But even if we were to give the benefit of the doubt to most people, I think there are a lot
00:16:56.100 of people on the pro-choice side that do realize the argument that we're making that do understand
00:17:01.280 the argument that we're making, but, but they know that if they do the way that you said, if they do
00:17:07.820 say, I understand what you're saying, Virgil or Ali, that this is a human being, that this is just an
00:17:13.620 early stage of development, but I still think it's okay to kill a human being that makes their
00:17:19.840 arguments sound really bad and they know that that is very brutal. And most of them, what they're just
00:17:27.620 not willing to verbalize that because it hurts their conscience too much, which should tell you
00:17:33.440 something about the human heart. But I think it makes them feel better. It puts a balm on their guilt
00:17:39.400 or shame to say, well, this is not a human being. This is not a person. Um, it, it just reminds me
00:17:45.740 the kind of dehumanizing language that we hear from them to justify their arguments. It reminds me so
00:17:52.460 much of the arguments made for slavery. And I wonder if you agree with that since you call yourself an
00:17:58.040 abolitionist. Absolutely. I mean, the, the, the same arguments that are being posited today, uh, are the
00:18:04.980 same ones that were, that were posited in during the time of slavery. It's the devaluing of, of a human
00:18:09.960 being who's created in God's image. Uh, that, the, the, the arguments today are my body, my choice.
00:18:16.040 Uh, the arguments back then were, were my slave, my property. Um, and so those are the same, those are
00:18:21.520 the same arguments that, that are, that were being posited then that are being posited now. And the,
00:18:27.260 the, the, the interesting thing is, like you said, they, they recognize that in the public arena,
00:18:33.040 in, in social media, in, in media in particular, their arguments sound very, very harsh. They,
00:18:40.320 and, and they recognize those don't hit the ear very well. Uh, but what's interesting Allie is at
00:18:45.940 the abortion clinic, these women are making those arguments. Uh, these women walking into these
00:18:51.940 abortion clinics. I was there this past mother's day weekend. They don't care. They recognize this is a
00:18:58.240 human life. I'm calling out to them and letting them know, Hey, we're here to help you. We're here
00:19:02.120 because we care about you. You don't have to end the life of your child. You know, I know you're
00:19:06.560 doing this to cover, uh, perhaps cover sin in, in, in, in an area of your life, but man, Christ died
00:19:12.080 for your sins. There's no reason for that. There's, we're here to help you. We love you. These women
00:19:16.760 flip me off. They'll, they'll tell me they know it's a human being and walk right into the abortion
00:19:21.260 clinic. And so it's, it's a different thing at the, at the point of, uh, you know, where, where rubber
00:19:26.740 meets the road, so to speak. But I recognize that, you know, in the, in the, you know, in the area of
00:19:31.720 social media and the area of media in general, uh, those arguments don't play well, but they
00:19:36.000 do, they do coincide with the same arguments that were being had during the time of slavery.
00:19:41.200 And what you obviously realized just from that short story that you just told me and what
00:19:46.860 I think a lot of Christians maybe sometimes forget or don't want to think about because
00:19:51.840 it's just another layer of discomfort. But the answer to this essentially and ultimately
00:19:56.900 is the gospel of Jesus Christ, because you, you mentioned that these women, these women
00:20:02.980 get very angry when you mentioned sin or Jesus or what they're doing. And you just look at either
00:20:09.960 Romans one, or you look at Ephesians four that says they are darkened in their understanding.
00:20:15.140 Why? Because they don't know God. It says they are, uh, callous. They are, uh, ignorant in their
00:20:21.640 hardness of heart. And when I think about so many people that, uh, are adamantly pro abortion
00:20:27.880 or pro what they call pro choice, it, it, uh, Ephesians four rings, uh, so true that it is
00:20:35.220 callousness, it's ignorance, it's darkness, it's a hardness of heart. And what can soften all
00:20:41.760 of those things? Only Jesus Christ. That is it. And I think a lot of Christians, um, even well-intentioned
00:20:49.980 Christians, they don't want to believe that that is the ultimate answer because again, sharing the
00:20:55.420 gospel for a lot of people feels very awkward. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think I, one, you're,
00:21:00.600 you're spot on with that too. I think we're going to come face to face with that. If indeed,
00:21:05.240 uh, the, the, the Roe v. Wade decision, you know, goes the wrong way. Let's say this goes to the
00:21:10.260 Supreme court, um, and, and, and, you know, Roe v. Wade's not turned around. Uh, I know that there'll
00:21:16.100 be people continuing to, to, to advocate for that. I think that, I think a lot of Christians will be
00:21:20.120 disheartened, uh, by that, but at the end of the day, I think you, you landed spot on it, uh, which
00:21:25.620 is the other day I was listening to, to one of your relatable, uh, podcasts where, where you quoted
00:21:30.180 from Romans 1 18, you walked us through 28 through 32, and you talked about all the things that are in
00:21:35.700 the heart of, of mankind and that we not only agree with those things, we give hearty approval to
00:21:40.460 those that do. And I think when, when you look at that reality in, even in the life of, of believers
00:21:45.840 where we've allowed some issues around this abortion to cloud our mind, rather than holding
00:21:50.480 to a biblical worldview, there, there will be a cost. And ultimately at the end of the day, we've got to
00:21:56.700 get back to the proclamation of the gospel. At the end of the day, the proclamation of the gospel
00:22:00.800 that changes the hearts of the human condition is what will, what will turn this around.
00:22:06.260 Right. One thing that I did want to get your insight on, I think I've heard you talk about
00:22:10.420 this, uh, before, but how abortion, this is switching gears just a little bit, but how
00:22:15.160 abortion disproportionately, uh, affects impoverished communities, minority communities, and in
00:22:20.660 particular, the black community and how that point seems to be completely ignored by the
00:22:26.940 side that is so quick in every other situation to call out racism.
00:22:31.480 Right, right. Well, I think between you and I, you being a female, me being a black male, we
00:22:36.320 can put our intersectionality points together and maybe speak with a little bit of authority.
00:22:40.420 Exactly.
00:22:40.760 On this, on this particular issue. And, and that is the reality that, that when I'm at
00:22:45.940 the abortion clinic, one of the things that I think is interesting or surprising, at least
00:22:49.560 for, for women who are driving in disproportionately in Nebraska, where I'm from, uh, blacks represent
00:22:55.600 6% of the population, but represent about 28% of abortions that are taking place in the state
00:23:03.160 disproportionately affecting us. And in other areas, it's even worse. Uh, you, you, you've, uh,
00:23:08.360 I've heard you talk about the fact that in New York, uh, that there, there are more, more
00:23:12.580 black babies who are murdered in the womb than are actually born. We know that statistic
00:23:16.960 well, but it disproportionately affects black communities. And if, if those who, who really
00:23:22.400 believe that black lives do matter, they would find themselves on the front lines at abortion
00:23:26.800 clinics to ensure that the black genocide that is taking place stops immediately. And I think
00:23:32.780 women who come to the abortion clinic are often shocked or surprised to see a black male there
00:23:39.220 at the clinic. And, and so I, I do feel at times that I have an extra opportunity to share
00:23:44.300 with them. Hey, black lives do matter. If you want to use that language, if you want to use
00:23:47.800 that mantra from your secular worldview, if black lives matter, they should matter today and
00:23:52.140 it should keep you from aborting your child. And, uh, and every time they hear that mantra,
00:23:57.280 I want them to remember if they go through with that abortion on that day, they weren't
00:24:01.260 thinking that that black life mattered much. Now there's definitely forgiveness, uh, through
00:24:06.140 Jesus Christ and by way of repentance of sin and placing faithful faith in him. Uh, but I,
00:24:11.980 but I want them to, to recognize that, acknowledge that, and to keep them from walking into the
00:24:16.820 evil, uh, that they're about to do as they murder their child in the womb.
00:24:20.500 Well, I think that this fight is just beginning, um, for unborn lives. And if we think that,
00:24:30.540 if we think I, and I do agree that in some ways the pro-life cause has gained a lot of ground and we
00:24:37.380 have done wonderful things or the abolitionist cause against abortion has done wonderful things.
00:24:43.100 And God has given us so much grace and so much power and so much discernment in this, but it is
00:24:50.720 also easy to look at the arguments from the other side, to look at the things going on in particular
00:24:55.840 states like New York and be scared and be disheartened. And just for me, there's no other
00:25:02.040 issue that makes me just want to pull my hair out and say, what, how the heck can people have this
00:25:09.900 mentality? Where in the world are we going? So if you could just give some advice, some encouragement
00:25:17.560 to people who they might be happy about the Georgia and Alabama legislation, but they're feeling
00:25:23.800 scared, nervous, confused, helpless, out of control. Um, they want to do something for unborn babies and
00:25:31.020 women. They don't know what, and they don't know if anything is going to be fruitful. Can you just give
00:25:35.420 some, uh, a charge to them maybe? Yeah. Yeah. What you said reminds me of when I first kind of got into
00:25:41.180 this about six or seven years ago, uh, as the issue began to get real to me and I felt like I've got to do
00:25:49.720 something, but had no idea what to do. Um, man, I began to seek out people who, who knew more than I did
00:25:56.980 about the issue, who understood the issue well, and, and gave examples of how to, how to go about fighting, uh,
00:26:03.660 this particular issue, whether that means, uh, finding someone who's at an abortion clinic, doing a sidewalk
00:26:08.520 ministry, whether that's at, at an advocacy clinic, uh, where you could spend time there with those
00:26:14.720 folks, whether it's, whether it's praying. Oftentimes I'll, I'll post on Facebook when I'm headed out to
00:26:19.160 the abortion clinic and I'll just ask people to pray for me. And, and, uh, because again, I recognize
00:26:25.480 that in those spaces and places at the end of the day, and this is the one thing that all of us need to
00:26:30.100 remember, and that is God is sovereign. And that if, if he wanted to wipe things out tomorrow, he would
00:26:36.900 indeed do it. And we pray earnestly, uh, for him to do just that. In the meantime, we have to be
00:26:43.620 faithful to, to telling truth, to sharing that truth and love and operating from a standpoint of
00:26:50.040 the absolute proclamation of the gospel, which is what, what, what, what's required, uh, to see hearts
00:26:55.400 changed and transformed and folks receive repentance, uh, faith in Christ and, and follow him all the days
00:27:02.220 of their life. Amen. Thank you so much for all of your insight and thank you for what you do and for
00:27:08.180 leading by example. And I know that you don't take credit for any of it and that it's all the Holy
00:27:14.260 Spirit through you, but thank you anyway, uh, for that. And of course, thank the Lord for what he's
00:27:20.920 doing through you and what he's doing through that ministry and how many lives have been changed for
00:27:25.760 generations to come. So I just, I just want you to know that you are appreciated.
00:27:30.920 Oh, thank you for having me. So appreciate it a bunch. Appreciate you, uh, with Daryl and myself
00:27:37.040 with just thinking, and we definitely want to wish you all the best as you get ready to have a brand
00:27:42.080 new baby. We'll definitely be praying for you and looking forward to when you, I know you're going to
00:27:46.600 take a little bit of a hiatus break. Uh, we'll definitely miss you and look forward to when you get
00:27:50.920 back. We, uh, we just know that we watch you follow you and our big fans. Okay. Thank you so
00:27:55.560 much. And if you will just tell everyone real fast, if you'll just tell everyone where they can
00:28:00.500 find a just thinking or where they can find you, if you want them to follow you on social media or
00:28:05.280 wherever you want to direct them. Well, you can, you can catch me on Twitter, Virgil W L K R. So
00:28:11.500 Virgil spelled V I R G I L W L K R Omaha, which is kind of my moniker on the just thinking, uh, podcast.
00:28:19.100 Uh, you can find just thinking wherever you, wherever you download your podcasts on,
00:28:23.000 on Apple or iTunes and or Android. And so, yeah, I would love to connect with you. Love to love to
00:28:28.620 check us out at just thinking, uh, and I definitely appreciate, uh, uh, have it having me on Allen.
00:28:33.600 Thank you so much for Jill. I appreciate it. I hope you guys enjoyed that conversation. Uh,
00:28:39.740 he is such a good example for all of us just to be bold in our faith. A lot of times, uh, I'm probably
00:28:46.020 guilty of this as well when I am contending with the other side, forgetting that the, uh, essential
00:28:53.180 problem, uh, with those who think that unborn life is expendable is that they don't know God
00:28:59.780 is that they don't know Jesus Christ. And that is the capacity for all of us. Now there are people
00:29:05.540 who don't know God who are pro-life, but even that is, uh, wisdom and grace from God that they
00:29:11.600 understand that life inside the womb is made in the image of God. But as Christians, we know that
00:29:17.400 for sure. We are convicted by that in our souls and in our hearts. There is no way to get around
00:29:23.160 that. If we are children of God, we recognize the value of vulnerable life and we care about life,
00:29:29.780 uh, not just inside the womb, but we also care about these mothers. And it is our responsibility
00:29:34.940 to do something, uh, for life that starts at conception. And also these mothers who find themselves
00:29:41.320 in crisis situations, but to create an entire culture of life, to make them feel helped and
00:29:46.780 cared for. That is part of what it means. That's an example of what it means to be the hands and feet
00:29:51.620 of Jesus. I'm thankful for, uh, for Virgil. He certainly challenged me. I hope you feel that way
00:29:56.920 as well. And I hope you feel enlightened and encouraged by that conversation. I hope you guys
00:30:01.360 have an awesome weekend and I will see you on Monday for Theology Mondays.