Ep 1144 ｜ The Theological Errors of Gentle Parenting ｜ Guest： Abbie Halberstadt
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Summary
Abby Halberstadt is a homeschooling mom of 10 and she is here today to give us her best motherhood advice. It is such an encouragement in an age of secular, permissive parenting. What does it mean to be a godly yet gentle authority figure in your home? And why has God given us authority over children? And what does it look like to steward that in a biblical and loving way? She s got so many edifying words for us today. You ll love this conversation!
Transcript
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Abby Halberstadt is a homeschooling mom of 10, and she is here today to give us her best
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motherhood advice. It is such an encouragement in an age of secular permissive parenting.
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What does it mean to be a godly yet gentle authority figure in your home? And why has
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God given us authority over children? And what does it look like to steward that in a biblical
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and loving way? She's got so many edifying words for us today. You guys will love this conversation.
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It's brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to goodranchers.com. Use code
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Allie at checkout. That's goodranchers.com. Code Allie.
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Abby, thanks so much for taking the time to join us. A lot of people know who you are,
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but for those who don't, can you tell everyone who you are and what you do?
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Yeah. Yeah. My name is Abby Halberstadt, and I am a mama to 10. I have a podcast called Emma's for
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Mama, and that is kind of my whole brand, book, blog that I've done for like 14 years, podcast. And on
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the podcast, I always start out saying, happy wife, mama to 10, Bible-believing Christian,
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ending with the most important thing. And so I am a homeschool mama to 10 kids. I never planned
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to have 10 kids. You're going to hear a lot of moms of many say this. Like very few of us were like,
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I am gunning for a specific number. But this is what the Lord blessed me with. In fact,
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I have one brother and everybody always assumes you must have a lot of siblings or this must be what
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your norm was growing up. Very much so the opposite. I'm the youngest of two,
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knew nothing about kids, hadn't changed, but a handful of diapers, maybe in church nursery or
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something. And so this whole process of becoming mama to so many has surprised me as much as it's
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surprised anybody else that freaks out about it. So, but the Lord's been good. I mean,
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he's with us every step of the way and it's really, really fun to get to be a mom of so many,
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but really challenging. Yeah. So if you say that you didn't plan it,
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you didn't go into marriage thinking we're going to have 10 children. How did this come about? At
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what point did you and your husband decide, okay, we're just not going to prevent and how ever many
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children the Lord wants to give us, that's what we're going to have. Right. So my mom did a really
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good job of talking to me about things like birth control, hormonal birth control, and the downsides to
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it. Talked to me about the sovereignty of God. I mean, we had some deep theological and medical
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conversations when I was a teenager and neither my husband nor I had sexual partners before we got
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married. And so neither one of us were having, you know, scares with pregnancy or trying to prevent
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with any kind of pills or anything like that. And I really took to heart, even as a teenager,
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the exhortation for Proverbs 3, 5, and 6, trust in the Lord with all your heart,
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lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways, acknowledge Him. And He will make your path
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straight. Because I feel like we tend to kind of do this little, in some of your ways, acknowledge
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Him. In the easy, comfortable, safe ways, acknowledge Him. And I know what that feels like.
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Believe me. I'm not one that loves surprises or likes to not feel in control. It's not about that.
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It's just, there was just this burning conviction in my heart that all your ways included fertility.
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And so I was actually engaged to a different guy before I married my husband. And one of the
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sticking points was birth control. Because I had this conviction not to do that to my body,
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not to engage in something that could be abortifacient and kill an embryo. And he just
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wasn't on the same page. It wasn't what broke us up. But I knew that I was going to make that something
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that I presented to any future potential spouse pretty early in the game. In the case of my husband's
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relationship, it was our second date. We're sitting in the car. He was picking me up from
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a concert that I already was going to go to. And he didn't have a ticket to. So he picked me up
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afterwards. We're sitting in the car. I have no idea how I segued into this. I probably knowing my
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personality just jumped right in. And I remember telling him, these are my convictions, you know,
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because neither one of us was a real lighthearted type when it came to dating. We weren't going to
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date unless it was something we wanted to pursue as someone that we might marry.
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How old are you? I was 21. Okay. And so I kind of laid out this like, I want to honor my body in
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this way. That might mean that I end up with a lot of kids with whomever I end up with could be like
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six. I remember saying that number. Well, crazy. Yeah, crazy. It did feel crazy. I just didn't have
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a point of reference. I didn't know anyone hardly that had that many. Most of us don't. I didn't
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either. One or two siblings. That's all of my friends. I'm one of three. Same deal. Well,
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and I did grow up homeschooled and we had several families that had larger numbers of siblings,
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but it just wasn't something that daily affected my life, I would say. And little did I know that
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my husband, who is the middle of three whole boys, like not a big family either. Although these days,
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sometimes three is considered a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Um, that he was thinking like, Oh, eight sounds like a
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fun number. And he didn't say that out loud in that moment, but he just kind of looked at me in his
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steady, calm way that I love about him so much and was like, all right, I can deal with that.
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Yeah. Which was the complete opposite of what I dealt with before. And another relationship where
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lots of things have been compatible, but like the conviction wasn't matching. Um, and I remember just
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kind of staring at him cause I had expected something else and thinking, okay, this, this could
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work. It absolutely did work. First sponsor is WeHeart Nutrition. I've told you about my supplement
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You spoke at Share the Arrows, and I don't think that we had time to talk about this,
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how you met your husband. I know you've just revealed a little bit of what the dating process
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was like, but tell us about that leading up to marriage and that decision.
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Yeah. So I was the coordinator for a 20-somethings group at our church. He was a non-believer
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and one of my non-negotiables. Of course, as a believer since I was five years old,
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like I remember the moment that I prayed and asked Jesus to be the Lord of my life,
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that of course I was never going to date anybody that wasn't a believer. So he was a non-believer.
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He was coming to our church and hanging out at the events, but as kind of a spectator or a skeptic.
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He was probably beyond the skepticism phase at that point. He was a seeker, I would say,
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and the Lord was clearly seeking him. But he wasn't a Christian, and he was coming with some
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friends, and I was the coordinator for this 20-somethings group, and I would send out these
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emails. Well, I'm a total word nerd. I can't send out normal emails. There were references to Jane
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Austin. There were jokes that people probably thought were corny because they were, and he
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totally got them, and he loved them. So if he RSVP'd to something, he never sent a normal RSVP.
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It was always quirky and clever and witty, and it was also spelled and punctuated really well.
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I'm a total grammar nerd. I was an English teacher for years and have an English degree,
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and so that kind of thing draws my attention, is really attractive to me. I know people are like,
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And he cares, and so that caught my attention. His humor caught my attention. His good looks
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caught my attention. His athleticism. But then we have this problem. He's not a Christian.
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But he was clearly a person of integrity. Even without Christ in his life, he was very respectful.
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I remember for my 21st birthday, he showed up because he had building experience with his dad,
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and he's actually since gone on to build us three different structures, two of which we lived and
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then currently live in, and then a sport court. So he can do it all. At the time, I didn't know all of
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that, but he showed up to help this building project. He didn't know our family well, and he
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stayed for hours and busted his tail and worked really hard and was super respectful to my family,
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So after weeks, months, really, of showing up to all these events, we were kind of flirting back and
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forth through email, but I was like, this can't go anywhere. And then there was another dude that was
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interested in me that I was tutoring in Spanish, air quotes, because I knew the real reason that he
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wanted me to teach him Spanish. I was also a Spanish major and teacher for several years.
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And he really wanted to spend time with me, but he wasn't declaring himself.
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And so at one of these Spanish sessions, he, not knowing that I had any interest in Sean,
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told me, hey, Sean became a believer like last week. And I mean, if he hadn't been paying attention
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before, he was probably like, why did she get so interested? I came up, I was like, what?
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Yeah, that's right. Adios. And so the minute I found that out, it was game on. And also it was
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game on for him because he also knew that he couldn't pursue me without that. Like he just,
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he got that. And he'd pick that up for me for sure. And he was so bold. I remember he called me
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on my little Nokia brick cell phone, my red Nokia phone from whatever year this is, 2004 or three
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or something like that. And I didn't know the number normally I wouldn't have picked up. But
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for some reason I did, I was on a subway with my mom. And one of the things he had teased me about
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was that in my email, it showed my middle initial, which is E. So he had made up a name for it. And he'd
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say he was teasing me and calling it ermintrude. So you said, Oh, your middle name must be,
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you know, just to be silly. Yeah. Kind of thing sounds cheesy now, but I thought it was hilarious.
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Yeah. And so I answer my phone and he says, Hello, is this ermintrude? And there's like this
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long pause. And then I proceed to guffaw, like just laugh out loud. And every person in subway
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turns around and looks at me. Yeah. Because I'm just, of course, thrilled that this guy is calling.
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Yeah. He asked me out just as a total gentleman, completely direct after this other guy who was
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super sweet, had been pursuing me for months, but never like declaring what was going on.
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It was really attractive that he was so bold. And the rest is kind of history. We dated for
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eight months and were engaged for eight months and got married in 2005.
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And you were already engaged though sometime before that.
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Yeah. It had been, it had been a year since I had been engaged. So I was really, really young
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when I got engaged. I would think I was 19, which I wouldn't have pictured either. I don't know what
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I pictured. I didn't have like my life planned out, but I don't think I would have thought I would
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have been engaged at 19, but yeah. Yes. And then you met Sean, you got married when you were about
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22, 22. And y'all had already had the conversation. We had already had the talk.
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This is what, this is what our childbearing is basically going to look like according to the
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Lord's providence. And so tell us about the early years of marriage, your first baby.
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Yeah. So we didn't do anything to prevent anything. Um, and we, and I, I had a teaching job
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as a high school Spanish teacher. I'd already taught for three years, but, um, this was a new
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position at a new place right after we got married and I got pregnant three months after we got married
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and my mom quote unquote only had two kids because that's what the Lord gave her. She never prevented
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anything. She never tried not to have more kids and her story is one of repetitive miscarriages.
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And so that could have been my story too. You know, I had no idea whether I would be super fertile or
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not and nothing to give me as a kind of touch point to know what to expect. So we didn't get pregnant
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for three months. And I remember when I announced, um, the pregnancy, which was several months later,
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like I didn't say anything about being pregnant until I was like 20 weeks or something. Cause like
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first baby, you don't show that much. Um, and I remember our guidance counselor at this Christian
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private school that I was teaching at when she found out that I was pregnant early on in marriage
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said, oops, accidents happen. Oh, that's horrible. I know. And I, my mouth fell open at 42. Now I know
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exactly what I would have told her. I would have said, nothing is an accident. God is, God is sovereign.
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And he created this baby at this exact moment in time and chose me to be their mom. And I'm so grateful
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for that. And so happy about this. That is not what came out of my mouth at 22. I just kind of
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stared and laughed, even though I didn't think it was funny and didn't say anything, just kind of
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left the room in shame. And that's a story that I hear a lot from moms when they're kind of belittled
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for their choices with fertility. They're just like, I didn't know what to say. I didn't know what to do.
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And it's sad, but, but it's understandable too, because our culture has really, really conditioned us
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to view children as a burden and to view it as something that you put off until you're ready
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and to finagle timing and to be in control and all of those things. Well, here we are rejoicing
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because I wasn't due until the week of finals. And I was like, look at your timing, Lord. I get to
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teach the whole year. And then if I choose to come back, have the entire summer to have a new baby,
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I thought God's timing was really cool. Yeah. And so, you know, perspective is what it's all about.
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Everything. Yeah. And I literally gave birth to my first son one week before our first wedding
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anniversary and one week after finals ended. Wow. It's perfect timing. Wow.
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Almost 19. And then your youngest, they're four, and you've got two sets of twins.
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Yes. They share the same birthday, which always blows people's minds.
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Twins. We do have two sets of twins. And I think I mentioned just a little while ago something about
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like, you know, I struggle with God's sovereignty too, or not always being open-handed. The number
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one thing, or pretty much the only thing that I really reserved for myself, as if I had any control
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over it, was, okay, Lord, give us the children you have for us. We're open to whatever, you know,
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just one at a time. Like, don't do this multiple things. That sounds terrible.
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Like, that was my viewpoint on twins. So we've actually been pregnant with twins three times.
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Our first set are 12, Evie and Nola. They are identical girl twins. And then right after them,
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our next son, Theo, had an identical twin that we lost to vanishing twin syndrome. And he also
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would have been a monodi twin, which is where you have an egg that splits basically into two
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amniotic sacks, but they share one placenta. It's unusual for you to have one set of identical
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twins. And then to be pregnant twice with twins is unusual. And then our third set is also identical
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as well. So, and then they ended up coming on the same day, which is, which is crazy.
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Which is crazy. And I don't know if this is TMI, but we've talked about like birth and my birth
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story is on here. You said, I think on Instagram that you've never had a C-section.
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That is amazing. Have you ever had like pregnancy complications or birth complications that
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ever put any fear in your mind about having more kids?
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No. And I, uh, one of my mentors, Jennifer Flanders, she has 12 kids. She's about 17 years
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ahead of me. I love her grace filled approach to this topic. Cause she always says, I don't
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presume to know what I would do. I trust fully in the sovereignty of God, but I don't presume
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to know what I would do or what my husband would want us to do. If I were experiencing
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hyperemesis gravidarum and in the hospital, every time I got pregnant and I wasn't, neither was
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I, she wasn't, neither was I. If I had a super traumatic birth and the doctor is recommending
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for, you know, certain procedures, she's like, I don't presume to know. I would have had to
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cross that path when I got to it. In my case, I've had pretty straightforward pregnancies.
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Um, both of my sets of twins were considered high risk because of the fact that they, um,
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they only have one placenta to support both of them. And while twins are just kind of high risk
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anyway, I suppose. But, um, and then I've definitely had struggles during pregnancy,
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but none that absolutely kept me from being able to do daily life for the most part.
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And then my second set of twins, my first I had at home and was one of the best births.
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You had your first set of twins at home. Yeah. How many weeks gestation?
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39 weeks and four days. You made it to almost 40 weeks with both sets of twins or just the first?
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The second was 37 weeks and two days. That's still amazing. Yeah.
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Because sometimes twins come really early, 34 weeks even.
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Well, and talking about perspective, one of the things my amazing midwife who delivered my first set
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of twins told me, she said, you will be told if you go the allopathic route, if you got kind of
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the traditional route with multiples or with a lot of, with a lot of birthing experiences and they
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can be great. But she said, especially with multiples and the high risk factor, you will be
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told that you will probably have these babies by 35 weeks. There's so much mindset that's involved
00:19:51.960
in here. I want you to, to assume because I keep babies in, I have babies at 42 weeks. Most of my
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other ones. I know. All of my kids have come in around 42 weeks. I know. It's, it's miserable
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until you just decide you get two bonus weeks of dates and like maybe next. Exactly. And eating
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whatever you want to. Yeah. You're just like, whatever, man, we're just going with it. Um,
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so she said, you go to 42 weeks with singletons. We're going for 40. Yeah. And she told me to eat
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a ton of protein to keep the amniotic sex strong. She told me to keep moving. I'm a fitness instructor
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and I exercised throughout the entire pregnancy because it felt good. I mean, at the exact
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moment, it didn't feel good a lot of times, but it kept my energy up. It gave me stamina.
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I knew I wanted to be strong during birth. And so my first set were born at home. One was
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seven pounds and one was six and a half pounds almost. Well, six pounds, five ounces, but, um,
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close enough. And, uh, it was the best birth I've ever had. It was a phenomenal birth.
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So my second set, I really wanted to do home again, but the midwife I was using my first
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midwife that helped me through that whole process actually had a stroke and died.
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Oh my God. I know. Um, but again, the board's timing. Yes, it was so sad. She was really young.
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She was like 62 and she was such a help to so many people. Um, I actually got shingles right
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after I had Evianola and horrible time. Well, and it was, it was probably the birth and you know,
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all the, all the stresses you're going through feeding two babies at night and stuff. And she
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got me through it. Whereas doctors were like, you're going to have to stop breastfeeding. You're
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going to have to. And she was like, Nope, we're going to do this protocol and you're going to be
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okay. And I was, um, so she was such a godsend. So it was a different midwife, equally wonderful,
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but she was closing down in practice and wasn't delivering at home anymore. So I actually split
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care between her and a traditional OBGYN, but I had to deliver in an OR. So very different
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experience. Oh, okay. First baby came out great. Second baby was like this. Here I am
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straight up and down. He was transverse straight across presenting with his arms still in the
00:21:53.220
sack. But if the sack had broken, which it was very likely about to, the cord was presenting
00:22:00.160
as well. It would have come out and I would have had to have a C-section. Like there was
00:22:03.000
a delivery, there was like a surgery table, like they were ready to do it. Yeah. And my OBGYN
00:22:08.400
got up in there. It was the first epidural I've ever had. It wore off an hour before I delivered
00:22:14.340
them. So it was gone, which I mean, I did transition with it. So it was an interesting
00:22:18.680
experience. And she got up in there with this epidural worn off and physically turned him
00:22:24.380
and pulled him out. He came out gray and floppy, not breathing very well at all. And I'm holding a
00:22:29.280
baby on my chest, trying to see what's going on. And they're pulling him away for oxygen.
00:22:33.040
And afterwards, I remember my midwife who got to attend, this was 2020. So there was weird
00:22:38.460
stuff going on in delivery rooms all across the world. But thankfully my OBGYN was like,
00:22:43.580
no, no, we're declaring her and your husband necessary medical personnel. They're going to
00:22:47.060
be there. It was great. So my midwife told me, listen, we would have done all the things
00:22:53.200
that she did if you'd had him at home. But when he didn't respond to oxygen the first time,
00:22:56.880
we would have gotten an ambulance. So seeing the Lord's sovereignty and having me in the right
00:23:00.620
place, even though that's not where I wanted to be, was amazing and so reassuring.
00:23:05.420
I think that's a really important lesson because a lot of us have birth regret or things that
00:23:13.180
happened to us during birth that just make us sad or we would just wish that things had gone
00:23:19.720
differently. I had that a lot with just my first two, but especially my first because it truly was
00:23:24.980
an unnecessary C-section and I didn't know any better at the time. But at the end of the day,
00:23:31.060
I do have to trust. I can take lessons from that and I did because I ended up having a V-back after
00:23:36.160
two C-sections. But I can do that while also trusting in the Lord's sovereignty that there
00:23:41.580
could have been things that I did not see, that I did not know, and that God in that moment was
00:23:47.460
working all things, even the chaotic things, together for my good and for his glory.
00:23:53.440
And I think women need to hear that during birth because so often women are dismissed like their
00:23:59.380
fears or their sadness or whatever it is when it comes to the actual labor and delivery.
00:24:03.900
While at the same time, I think there's a balance. Some people allow that fear to stop them from
00:24:08.560
having more kids or stop them from having kids altogether.
00:24:12.100
Yeah. I have a friend who has seven who is, I mean, she's in her sixties at this point. Most of her
00:24:20.960
And every single time it is. And I'm not, this is, someone's going to be like,
00:24:24.760
Abby, don't tell people this. You're not, you shouldn't advocate for this. I'm not advocating
00:24:27.920
for it. I'm just sharing an example of the Lord's goodness and faithfulness to answer when we ask for
00:24:32.840
wisdom because the Bible says that he will. That's one of the promises from scripture that he will
00:24:36.780
freely give us wisdom when we seek it. So each time she had a C-section, she asked her doctor to do an
00:24:42.340
ultrasound and check the, like the thickness of her womb and make sure that things, and she had
00:24:46.800
a doctor who was willing to give her a thumbs up or a thumbs down. And after her seventh, which was
00:24:51.860
in her forties, because she had an odd, like she had a baby at like 30, didn't have another one for
00:24:56.560
years. And then boom, boom, boom, boom, had six more in like her late thirties and early forties.
00:25:01.180
Completely not what we would expect as a normal birth trajectory. And the doctor finally told her,
00:25:07.860
I wouldn't recommend having another one. And her husband sat down beside the bed and they
00:25:12.240
prayed for the Lord to open her and close her womb. According to his will, she never got pregnant
00:25:16.340
again. And she had been getting pregnant every year for the last like seven years. So this is
00:25:21.840
not medical advice. Don't freak out. But I just, hearing her say like that the goodness of the
00:25:26.480
Lord and his direction was so clear through her husband's prayer was just, I don't know, it was really
00:25:34.440
So I am a big fan of chips and guac. You know, I grew up in Texas and so I'm a Tex-Mex
00:25:42.080
girl. I can't go very many days in a row without chips and salsa or chips and guacamole. But most
00:25:49.340
chips that you buy, especially those at restaurants, they are dipped and are fried in canola oil and
00:25:55.160
all kinds of things. And seed oils are very inflammatory and it's really hard to find a
00:25:59.880
genuinely natural chip, tortilla chip that is actually good for you. And that's why I love
00:26:07.120
masa chips because masa chips are totally free of seed oils. They just use organic corn, grass-fed
00:26:13.720
and finished beef tallow and Redmond sea salt. Beef tallow is really good for your skin. It's filled
00:26:19.020
with all kinds of vitamins. So it's not just that these chips aren't bad for you. They're also actually
00:26:24.700
good for you. All chips and fries used to be cooked in tallow until the 80s and 90s. We need to go
00:26:30.580
back to that and masa chips is, and they also just taste incredible. You don't have to compromise
00:26:36.300
on the taste just because you get rid of seed oils. Go to masachips.com. Use my code AllieB.
00:26:43.780
You'll get a discount on your order. I love these things. Masachips.com, promo code AllieB.
00:26:49.380
Did you ever go through postpartum anxiety or depression or, you know, sometimes people talk
00:26:59.020
about postpartum rage, which I don't know, maybe it's a part of either of those things?
00:27:02.720
Yeah. So I am a coper and a compensator, probably to a fault. So there are things I don't realize are
00:27:12.320
going on until after when I can look back and I feel better. I think that's a lot of people,
00:27:16.740
that's not like a badge of honor. I think that's how we function as moms. A lot of times you have
00:27:21.120
to do what you have to do. And so you get through it. Looking back, I think I had mild postpartum
00:27:26.680
depression after Avianola. I can just remember periods where I just felt really blank when I
00:27:31.060
knew I should feel happy. Like things were going really well. It'd be a happy family moment. And I
00:27:35.260
was just kind of there. My hormones regulated in about six months and it wasn't anything that I felt like
00:27:41.360
was insurmountable. But, and even at the time I was just kind of getting through it. And afterwards,
00:27:47.620
I was like, Oh, that wasn't me. Like that was, I was, that was a different person for a while,
00:27:51.200
you know? And so sometimes there are periods like that. And then after our seventh, so I mentioned
00:27:57.380
my husband has built a couple of our houses and he really does do like almost all the work with his
00:28:02.440
dad, who was a contractor. And so when I was pregnant with, and right after I had our number seven,
00:28:08.500
we were building our second house, which was a two-year build. And I was doing a lot of solo
00:28:13.740
parenting, a lot of solo homeschooling, a lot of solo, all the things. But when you have a goal
00:28:18.200
you're working toward, you can do it together. And it's a short-term thing. And, but after we moved
00:28:24.400
in, my four-month-old had a sleep regression. I had red dirt everywhere in my house because it was
00:28:29.460
sort of kind of finished, but not completely. And there's seas of red dirt in East Texas.
00:28:33.560
Everything was a mess. We were going through a really hard friendship breakup with our best friends.
00:28:37.380
And I had anxiety. I remember my husband talking to me and trying to ask me questions and feeling
00:28:42.700
like I had bees in my brain. Like, I can't process what you're saying. I can't breathe. I can't, you
00:28:48.400
know, that kind of thing. And I had never really dealt with anxiety before. And again, it eventually
00:28:54.340
evened out. It was a lot of being outside in the sunshine and praying. And I think if I know more
00:29:02.280
what I know now about holistic things, I could have supported my hormones a little better,
00:29:06.340
but I kind of just made it through because I had to. And then after our number eight, I experienced
00:29:11.820
postpartum rage. I didn't know what to call it. I just knew I was ticked off all the time.
00:29:16.580
And about two months into that, I remember one afternoon just kind of flipping out on my kids
00:29:21.980
because things didn't get cleaned right. And my husband very kindly saying, I know you're struggling.
00:29:26.480
And I know that this is hard and you're, you're carrying a lot, but we're going to have to work
00:29:31.720
on this. And I was feeling the same conviction. So I actually started something called the general
00:29:35.940
illness challenge. Just the Lord gave me the idea. I don't even know where it came from. So 30 days
00:29:40.680
of only kind speech or keeping my mouth shut didn't mean that I actually succeeded. But what was
00:29:47.380
fascinating was the science behind it, because there is science that shows that the way you speak,
00:29:51.920
the way you order your face, smiling, things like that actually retrains the neural pathways of your
00:29:56.180
brain toward positivity instead of despair and negativity. And the more you practice it and
00:30:03.080
refuse one and feed the other, I mean, this is like a pet. You can't starve something and feed the
00:30:10.980
other and not expect the other to be stronger. Right. And we know that life and death are in the
00:30:15.020
power of the tongue and those who love it, either life or death will eat of its fruit, either life or
00:30:18.380
death. So for 30 days with my family's knowledge and their help, and then I started a thing online and
00:30:23.300
thousands of women flooded in and said, this is me too. This is me. This is me. And we all did it
00:30:28.560
together. And it was truly life changing. I mean, I wasn't a screamer before or anything, but I just
00:30:33.380
found myself navigating toward the negative because I just was so irritable all the time. But it changed
00:30:39.440
my hormones. It really did. It went from feeling insurmountable. In some moments, it wasn't all the
00:30:44.600
time, but in some moments of stress or not eating enough or, you know, not getting enough sleep
00:30:48.940
to very mindful and like, I have a choice here. Yes. I think that is the key there because even
00:30:55.980
when we hear hormones and different kind of diagnoses, not that those don't all have an
00:31:02.500
effect on our mood, but the fact that you said, I still have a choice. My hormones don't control me.
00:31:08.620
They're not like the Lord of my life or the like controller of my tongue. Like I can still choose to
00:31:14.400
smile. I can still choose kind speech. And you're saying that that was actually what affected your
00:31:19.900
hormones. Yeah. Not to say that people shouldn't get their hormones checked and try to balance it and
00:31:24.560
all of that, but that is not like the determinant of whether or not you are able to be self-controlled
00:31:31.560
and gentle. And that's really important for me to hear, for everyone to hear.
00:31:35.480
Well, and far from being something that's condemning you, that's actually really freedom.
00:31:39.280
It's for freedom that Christ has set us free and we cannot be free if we don't preach truth to
00:31:44.680
ourselves. And the truth is that we, one thing that we did that was very practical was I memorized
00:31:50.460
Ephesians four with my kids. Ephesians four, two says, be completely humble and gentle bearing with
00:31:54.260
one another in love. I don't, that's also the one that says in your anger, do not sin. Also let no
00:31:59.540
unwholesome talk come out of your mouth. Don't give the devil a foothold. Don't go to bed angry.
00:32:03.080
There's like so much packed into one chapter that can be so convicting and conviction is good,
00:32:10.580
but condemnation is not. Condemnation is from Satan. Conviction and an absolute assurance
00:32:17.560
that Christ is calling you to something is from the Lord. And so to see where that process has led.
00:32:24.340
Now, do I always speak kindly to my children? No, I do not. Have I done the challenge before or again?
00:32:28.860
Yes. And I actually made it a day. I made it like a devotional. So you can actually access
00:32:34.380
something where it will walk you through every day with scripture, a thing to focus on. And I hear
00:32:39.000
from moms all the time that do it together with their families or with girlfriends and talk about
00:32:42.700
how transformational it is. And where can they get it? You can find it on MSRoma.net under the shop.
00:32:48.280
Okay. And it's called the gentleness challenge. And it's a 30 day challenge of only speaking gentle,
00:32:53.660
kind words or shutting your mouth. Right. Yeah. And I want to clarify something.
00:32:58.620
Yeah. Because I'm not a naturally gentle person. Yeah. I'm fun. I'm nice. All those things. But I
00:33:03.500
am much more likely to be put on your shoes. Let's go. Then I am. Hey, sweetie, let's talk about
00:33:08.080
putting on your shoes. Let's think about this. Directness and firmness is not contrary to
00:33:13.260
gentleness. Gentleness is not weakness. Yeah. It's not getting trod on. It is a willingness to temper
00:33:23.560
strength with kindness. Yeah. And so just because you're a direct mom doesn't mean you can't be a
00:33:28.600
gentle mom too. Yes. And talk about the difference between this kind of gentle and then the gentle
00:33:33.860
parenting that says, at least from my understanding, it's a completely contrary view of human nature to
00:33:42.600
what the Bible teaches, which is that you are naturally good inside. All of these outside factors
00:33:47.940
might be making you feel big or making you feel bad. But deep down, you're basically perfect. And
00:33:55.240
gentle parenting recognizes and honors that inner perfection of a child. That's psychology speak,
00:34:02.940
but that's what I kind of understand a lot of gentle parenting experts believe about parenting
00:34:08.720
and children. Right. And there is actually a book, I think it's called Jesus the Gentle Parent, which
00:34:13.240
obviously has some theological problems even in the title. Jesus is not a parent. His goal on earth was
00:34:20.460
not to be a parent. We can take examples from his lead, but if we actually do take examples from his
00:34:27.100
lead, we are not going to come out with man and children specifically are basically good.
00:34:35.280
Jesus actually said from the overflow of the mouth, the heart speaks. And he wasn't meaning that your heart
00:34:39.460
is pure and your mouth is speaking kind words. And he was very clear that we are to go and sin no more.
00:34:45.980
Now, a lot of people say, well, Jesus was speaking to adults and he's very welcoming to children. That's
00:34:52.220
very true. But there's nothing ever that Jesus has done to deny the truth of scripture as a whole.
00:34:58.400
And we know from the Old Testament that the heart of man is desperately wicked. We know from the New
00:35:02.460
Testament that we're all born into sin because we're all descendants of Adam. And that includes our
00:35:07.520
children. And I think that one of the things that gentle parenting robs parents and children of
00:35:14.480
is the opportunity to seek their savior. Because if we truly believe that we're dealing with a
00:35:20.860
sinless being and that it's only their circumstances or something beyond their control that's going to
00:35:27.820
force them into sinful behavior, then there's really nothing to be saved from. Whereas, and I see this
00:35:35.240
from gentle parenting forums where parents who follow the philosophy but also claim Christ are really
00:35:43.700
struggling to reconcile the clashing theology that says, my child is basically good, so why did Jesus
00:35:52.720
die on the cross for him? I can't figure out how to explain those things. Whereas, I love that I get
00:35:58.340
to preach the good news of the gospel to my children every day. We do catechisms, so we learn things about
00:36:03.840
the Trinity and we learn about what sin is. So if you ask even my five-year-old what is sin, he says,
00:36:08.780
disobeying God's law. He knows that it's not, I'm an evil, horrible person who God hates. It's like,
00:36:16.680
yeah, we're evil, but God loves us and he has done this amazing thing for us that only he could do.
00:36:22.500
None of our goodness, whatever that looks like, could ever save us because the Bible tells us it's
00:36:26.840
like filthy rags. That's how good our goodness can get is like yucky menstrual rags is kind of the
00:36:34.160
reference that that is. And so while I'm not using that to talk to my five-year-old and I'm not
00:36:40.580
certainly walking around because there is a misconception that if we acknowledge sin to
00:36:44.460
small children, that they will acknowledge forever separation from God and hell or the concept of
00:36:51.040
discipline or any of those things, that we're going to present to them an image of an angry and
00:36:56.060
vengeful God who is out to get them and squash them like a bug.
00:36:58.840
And shame, self-shame. That's what I hear a lot, that if you are not that kind of secular version
00:37:05.200
of a gentle parent, and if you talk about sin and needing a savior, then you're shaming a child and
00:37:11.180
you're trying to get them to like live in the shadows, which is obviously not at all true.
00:37:16.400
And I have 10 children. I have many, many friends who have every number of children under the sun
00:37:21.660
who are consistently teaching the truth of God's word to their children, which is that we are all
00:37:30.120
desperately in need of a savior, but the good news is that we have one and that we can boldly approach
00:37:34.600
the throne of grace because of the mercy of our savior who has already covered our sins with his
00:37:40.280
blood. There's no shame in that. It's covered and gone. It's separated as far as the east is from
00:37:45.680
the west. And to see children begin to grasp that and to like the joy spread across their face of like,
00:37:52.260
Jesus loves me this much. I would never want to rob a child of that. It's so far from shame. It's
00:37:57.480
truly the best gift we can offer them. And children just innately understand that things aren't all as
00:38:04.980
they should be. It doesn't take very long in their life to see for them to see that some people aren't
00:38:12.240
acting the way that they should, that some people are mean, that some people are bad, that some bad
00:38:16.900
things are happening or that people get sick and people die. Again, it just doesn't take them very
00:38:23.740
long into their life to pick up on, huh, this is not all happy all the time. Why is that? We went to
00:38:31.180
the Bible Museum a couple of weeks ago and we went through the Old Testament, which is like an
00:38:37.360
immersive experience, which I wouldn't really recommend for kids my kids age. I didn't realize
00:38:43.040
it at the time, like how scary it would be. And by the time we got to the plagues, my five-year-old
00:38:49.320
was like, I am out. And afterwards, but she was genuinely so sincerely sad. And her question was,
00:38:57.080
why did Adam and Eve have to sin? I don't want them to have sinned because she understood that it was
00:39:02.920
from that sin that all of this brokenness happened. And she understands even when we get sick today,
00:39:09.260
that it's part of that brokenness. And so she already understands that I really didn't have
00:39:14.420
to teach her all that much about the existence of sin. You see it so quickly, but what, as you were
00:39:20.340
saying, I get to teach her is that there is redemption from that. And there is a good thing
00:39:25.560
that we get to look forward to. And guess what? One day you will never be sick again. You'll never have a
00:39:30.360
tummy bug. You will never have disappointment. You will never have sadness. You'll never struggle
00:39:36.020
with sharing. None of that will happen because everything will be peaceful and perfect and
00:39:40.340
joyful. And that's all because of Jesus. Like that's better news than see all the bad stuff
00:39:45.260
that you're happening. That's all just a big misunderstanding. And we're all secretly good
00:39:49.460
inside. It just, that worldview really doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
00:39:54.740
No, it doesn't. It's not in line with reality as we see it. And it's not terribly honest.
00:39:59.140
So one of the things that you're saying is like, our kids are able to grasp that something is
00:40:03.880
broken. What we can help them to do is to acknowledge and be more honest about their
00:40:10.140
part in that. How often is it, he hit me, he did this to me. And we can ask them honest questions
00:40:16.620
that are less about how they felt when they did something and the why behind it.
00:40:22.420
Because, and I think there are probably some gentle parents out there listening and saying,
00:40:25.640
that is what I'm doing. I'm asking why. But there is a hyper focus in some instances on how you felt
00:40:33.220
about how things went. When the Bible focuses more on the truth of how we are to be regardless of what
00:40:40.940
our emotions tell us. God gives us emotions and they are wonderful gifts. The way you feel when you
00:40:46.800
meet your newborn's eyes for the first time has everything to do with the hormones and emotions
00:40:50.900
that God so graciously gave you and nothing to do with that little wrinkled ball of skin actually
00:40:55.360
should be invoking in you. A lot of times they're not real cute when they come out. And you think
00:41:00.400
they're the most beautiful thing you've ever seen. That's a gift from God and that's emotion.
00:41:04.180
And that is wonderful. So you'll never hear me denigrating emotion for emotion's sake in the way
00:41:08.700
that it's given to us rightly from God. But to then valorize it as being something that should
00:41:15.960
then control our actions, should control our motives, gives us a right to mistreat others,
00:41:23.880
whether we view it as mistreatment or not. An example, one of my friends, her daughter
00:41:29.520
has a cousin who I think they do kind of the gentle parenting approach. And the cousin often tells the
00:41:38.020
I need me time when the daughter doesn't get to see her cousin very often. And so in the few times
00:41:44.360
they get to hang out, because she has been told kind of this bubble of autonomy, this bubble of how
00:41:49.860
you feel in this exact moment. Philippians 2.4 says we're to look not only to our own needs, but to the
00:41:55.660
needs of others and to consider others as more important than ourselves. The gentle parenting
00:42:00.620
secular philosophy flips that on its head and says, if you don't look to yourself first and find your
00:42:05.480
truth within yourself, even as a child, and focus on how you feel and make sure you're okay with this
00:42:11.660
interaction, you can't possibly have the interaction be genuine. When in fact, it's more like the other
00:42:18.360
way around. Whether we feel like being kind to someone, when we choose kindness, the feelings often
00:42:22.980
follow. And even if they don't, we're doing the right thing as unto the Lord.
00:42:26.960
Yeah. And again, that is a freeing reality. People see that as some kind of like oppressive
00:42:32.960
religious dogma, but that's actually freeing that we are not ruled by our emotions. Again,
00:42:41.000
that doesn't mean that emotions are bad. There is a place, I think, for helping kids understand
00:42:46.020
their emotions, but bridling those emotions, submitting those emotions to both like the factual
00:42:53.140
truth of a situation, but also biblical truth. I think that that is so often what is missing in
00:43:00.500
gentle parenting. Emotions rule. Everything is just about big feelings and talking about our big
00:43:07.600
feelings, the therapy sessions with the kids, which I almost think kind of make things get out of hand
00:43:12.680
rather than saying, look, here's the truth of the situation and here are the values and the rules
00:43:17.200
of our family. And I know you're tired, but this is what we're going to do.
00:43:20.580
Well, and one thing that I have noticed, because this is something that I've engaged with a lot,
00:43:25.240
this is something that is really scary to engage with because there's a lot of pushback
00:43:29.220
because there's kind of a, the experts say, um, what we're not acknowledging is the experts said
00:43:35.260
something else 20 years ago and 20 years before that, the experts will say something different
00:43:38.840
in 20 years. The concept of feeling as if we have discovered ultimate truth every 20 years or so,
00:43:44.540
whether it's with parenting or something else is not new, but at the moment the experts say this,
00:43:50.420
and it has been going this direction for a while, certainly. And so it is a little scary to be a
00:43:57.020
voice speaking against it. I don't feel scared of it, but it is daunting sometimes with the responses
00:44:02.220
that you get. And so engaging with this, I'm really careful to look and see how it's actually
00:44:09.340
being played out because I think we can caricature each other really easily. All general parents are
00:44:13.700
just permissive and their kids are monsters. Not true. I have friends that general parent and their
00:44:18.300
kids are very sweet. I don't necessarily agree with all the methods and the, and the, the philosophies
00:44:23.980
or the methodologies, but it's not my business to go and parent their kids for them. I'm simply going
00:44:29.660
to speak to principles from God's word that I think are the absolute best way of doing things
00:44:35.180
in the way you apply them will look different for every family. And that's incredibly freeing too.
00:44:40.340
You see very little of that in the gentle parenting crowd. There's a lot of fear of doing it wrong.
00:44:46.140
And there's a lot of responsibility laid at parents' doors that they're the reason that
00:44:51.340
their child can't respond well. If you were emotionally dysregulated, if you did this list
00:44:56.820
of things, didn't respond well, didn't honor their autonomy, didn't, then this is the reason why they
00:45:00.820
are sassy to you, disobedient, beating the wall, whatever it is.
00:45:04.980
Well, it is scary. I'm, I'm just now thinking about this. It would be intimidating to be told
00:45:09.580
basically to take on the role of a therapist and not a parent. God has equipped you to be a parent.
00:45:15.060
He has not equipped you to necessarily be a therapist. That doesn't mean that you're never
00:45:19.160
talking about feelings or that that role doesn't come into play. But yeah, if you are like imbibing
00:45:24.780
all of this like psychobabble about how to like best maximize or optimize your kids' emotions,
00:45:30.820
and you see that as your primary role as a parent, that is really daunting because most of us don't
00:45:36.140
have a psychology degree when really it seems like what you're saying is parenting, especially in
00:45:41.460
accordance with God's word is actually a lot simpler than a lot of the psychiatrists are making
00:45:46.840
Right. One of my favorite verses about parenting is Deuteronomy 6, 6 through 8. You're supposed to
00:45:52.300
impress upon your children God's ways as you walk, sit, lie, and stand. I talk about this all the time
00:45:57.920
on my podcast. Basically, as you do life together, you show them what it's like to honor God's ways
00:46:05.200
and to impress upon them by modeling, by talking about it, by showing it, by apologizing when you
00:46:11.460
don't show it. You have all of these opportunities, and it really doesn't say anything about your
00:46:16.100
feelings about God's ways. It just says to impress them. One thing I've noticed in some of the bigger
00:46:20.980
accounts on general parenting is they will talk about holding boundaries, and I believe that they
00:46:25.780
do hold boundaries often. They might do it differently than I do, but I'm not saying that every
00:46:30.160
general parent never has a boundary or holds it. But one of the ways they often hold boundaries is almost
00:46:34.500
by tricking children into doing things, and they will share about the game they played with their
00:46:39.480
child to get them willing to go out the door for camp or school. And it's not shared in a way that
00:46:46.200
shows that they think that this is a bad idea. It's very clear that this is like a tool in your toolbox
00:46:52.060
to, to me, it seems very manipulative, to have almost outsmarted your child into getting them to do
00:47:00.620
something that they were resistant to. And while there are lots of great ways that we can encourage
00:47:06.540
our kids without their realizing exactly what's going on, because that's kind of our job as parents.
00:47:11.120
Sometimes you make it fun, or sometimes you distract them because they're too small to
00:47:14.540
overcome their emotions or their tiredness. That's your job. If we talk about holding boundaries,
00:47:22.560
but we have to jump through psychological hoops to say, it is time to get in the car,
00:47:27.380
I think we're going to be exhausted. And I really, really want to offer hope to tired,
00:47:33.620
busy moms that it is perfectly reasonable to do things simply and repetitively and God-honoringly
00:47:40.180
and to say, mama has said it's time to do this, and that is why we're doing it. And that is okay.
00:47:46.580
I hope that frees some mom that thinks that for some reason she cannot say that because that's my
00:47:50.840
way or the highway. God has put us in a position of authority for a reason. He has chosen us and not
00:47:55.800
someone else. He has predestined us for good works before the foundation of the world was laid. And
00:48:01.220
taking that seriously means sometimes you just do it.
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00:49:35.780
What does, at an early age, like toddlers, you're really starting to teach them about discipline and
00:49:41.540
obedience? Like what does enforcing those boundaries really look like? Like what does discipline
00:49:47.160
typically look like? If it's not those kind of, you know, games, manipulation tactics, what does it
00:49:54.540
look like? So this is one of the biggest questions that I get asked. And it's the one I'm the cagiest
00:49:58.840
about and drive people crazy because I don't think it's Abby Halberstadt's job to come into your home
00:50:04.200
and tell you exactly how to give a consequence. I don't think it's anybody's job, if I'm completely
00:50:09.340
honest. I do think that the principles of discipline are there. In Hebrews 12, it says,
00:50:15.100
no discipline is pleasant at the time, but at the time it's painful, but it's used for good. It's
00:50:21.060
charitable. And it also says that the Lord disciplines those whom he calls sons. A lot
00:50:26.240
of people try to turn this into pedagogy to say that it is simply teaching. And there's tons of
00:50:31.320
teaching that goes on as parenting. But this is talking about actual consequences. This is talking
00:50:35.760
about something that you shouldn't enjoy and that if your kid just shrugs it off. For some kids,
00:50:40.080
it's going to be taking away their books. For little kids, it may just be limiting access to
00:50:45.740
something physically. Like you may have to physically take something away. There are all kinds of other
00:50:51.140
examples. But I will tell you, one, you're going to have to make sure that they actually heard you.
00:50:56.080
Little kids have certain developmental limitations. And general parenting and psychology
00:50:59.680
talks about developmental limitations way more than a lot of Christian parenting books do. And I think
00:51:07.180
there's some validity to that. Yeah, that's important. If we don't understand what a three-year-old's
00:51:11.020
capable of and we are just snapping our fingers and saying, get it together. That's not what the Bible
00:51:16.020
calls us to at all. We're called to be humble and gentle, bearing with one another in love. That means
00:51:20.500
that we bear with them in a developmentally appropriate way. So a three-year-old will not
00:51:26.600
necessarily hear you say, get your shoes and get in the car and then do it because their brain is
00:51:32.040
developmentally engaged in running the car over the carpet over and over again. It is up to us as
00:51:38.660
parents to inconvenience ourselves to go over and get down on eye level with that three-year-old and
00:51:44.080
say, hey, mama needs you to do this. And if they're still distracted, to take them by the hand, show them
00:51:49.980
their shoes and help them if they need help. Will it mess up our schedule? Possibly. Will it head off a lot
00:51:56.160
of pain and heartache and screaming? Yeah. So the inconvenience on the front end is way better than
00:52:01.980
the meltdown on the back end. Yeah. I have found, and you can tell me if you found this too, that
00:52:07.300
usually it is the harder thing that is the right thing. Like what you just described, like, okay,
00:52:13.680
it took me more time and more effort and more thoughts to get down on my hands and knees to like
00:52:19.220
really make sure that they're understanding or even like in bigger ways. I mean, we don't do like
00:52:24.520
screens and stuff as a family, like as a form of entertainment. They don't have like iPads or
00:52:30.140
anything, but there are definitely times when I'm like, it would be way easier to just be able to do
00:52:37.700
that at a restaurant or something. But I also have found as they've gotten older because they aren't
00:52:44.960
distracted by that, that they've gotten a lot better at sitting through dinner and sitting at
00:52:50.280
restaurants and being in public and talking to adults. But it took some hard years during like
00:52:56.660
two and three of being like, okay, we're not going to do that. We're not going to take the like short
00:53:02.340
term easy way. And please, I'm not saying that like we have done this perfectly in every regard at all.
00:53:07.580
Just talking about the times that we have chosen the hard thing, the thing that takes longer,
00:53:13.140
the thing that takes more patience and more energy from us has typically been the right thing.
00:53:18.440
And the time that we have taken the shortcuts has been easier in the moment, but long-term we've
00:53:24.660
been like, hmm, I don't know if we set her up for success there or we helped her there. Do you think
00:53:31.540
that that's like a principle? Am I alone in that? No, I was literally about to say, moms, listen to what
00:53:37.420
Allie is saying. This is absolutely true. Front-loading your challenges so that you can- That's a good way to
00:53:42.700
say it. So that you can reap the benefits in the future is so huge. My second book is called
00:53:48.060
Heart is Not the Same Thing is Bad. Yeah. And it was because I was getting asked at the time that
00:53:53.540
that phrase came to me, not that I'm the only one that says it or I coined it really, but I'm known
00:53:58.920
for it at this point. At the time that phrase came to me, I had six small children. My oldest was eight
00:54:04.240
and people were like, okay, she has a little bit of an age range. Mine are a little younger than her.
00:54:08.580
She has quite a few. Like maybe she's figured out the formula to bypass this hard. And that's the DM
00:54:14.620
that I was getting. Okay. So how do I get around this? How do I potty train him in a day? How do I
00:54:19.240
not have him throw a tantrum when I buckle him in his car seat? How do I, all these things. And I found
00:54:23.680
myself completely hamstrung from being able to answer them because the truth of it is there is no perfect
00:54:29.160
solution to every one of those things. It's going to vary by child. It's going to vary by
00:54:33.140
your mood that you're in, what time you woke up that day. That's the thing is we are called to
00:54:39.100
rely. I really think that parenting is one of the best built-in sanctifying tools that exists right
00:54:45.220
after marriage. I think about that every day. Yeah. It is when we are told to take up our cross daily
00:54:49.480
and follow Jesus. There are so many ways we could duck that if we don't have built-in little
00:54:56.080
neighbors that we're supposed to be loving. Yeah. Well, or big neighbors, like I said,
00:55:00.080
I have big hulking boys that are way taller than I am now. And what an opportunity if we choose to
00:55:05.620
look at it that way, to be sanctified daily and to take up our crosses without ever leaving our
00:55:09.360
houses. If we can view it that way, well, then this heart is actually shaping me. This heart is
00:55:17.100
growing me. Without it, I won't be more mature. Without it, I won't have stronger muscles to flex,
00:55:21.740
either literally or metaphorically. Well, then by all means, I'm going to go through it by Christ's
00:55:27.620
strength rather than try to circumvent it. So you're absolutely right. Galatians 6, 9,
00:55:32.660
don't grow weary of doing good for in the proper time, which the Lord is the one that determines
00:55:36.260
that, not us. The proper time for us is like, we've done this for three weeks. Can we see some
00:55:40.800
fruit, please? Yeah. That's not usually how that works. For in the proper time, you'll reap a harvest.
00:55:44.940
And then the last four words, if you, no, more than that, if you do not give up.
00:55:51.300
Yes. I love the idea of front-loading the hard and not bypassing the necessary difficulty of
00:55:58.960
like whatever it is. Like yelling is easier. Giving your kids an iPad at all times when they're
00:56:04.580
like distracted or when they're disruptive is easier. Not praying with your kids, not teaching
00:56:11.560
your kids. All of that is easier. Like, you know, making mac and cheese for dinner every
00:56:16.480
night is easier. And I say that as someone, we went through a season of like mac and cheese every
00:56:21.080
night. So I, again, I'm not saying this. Way too many graham crackers. Yes. I am not saying this
00:56:25.380
from a place of perfection at all. I am saying this as someone who is in that, like the thick of that
00:56:31.420
and learning that. And we're trying by the grace of God to do our best in that. And yeah,
00:56:37.540
there are just times where I'm like, oh, we chose the easy moment. It's going to be harder later.
00:56:42.960
We chose the hard thing. It's going to be easier later. And we just see that manifest itself
00:56:48.000
so often in our parenting. Well, and I want to encourage you and every other mom that's,
00:56:53.220
that's going forward still, especially because your oldest is five. Right. So you have so much to
00:56:58.500
look forward to. And that is how I'm going to put it. You have so many good things to look forward to,
00:57:02.640
not just you wait or you should be afraid of, but just, just you wait until you get to do this
00:57:07.440
thing with them. Like, cause there's so much goodness. And I've actually seen this narrative
00:57:11.920
lately where moms that have been moms for a while are kind of like, it doesn't get easier.
00:57:17.000
And I don't know anyone in my circle that I trust that would agree with that.
00:57:22.340
There are aspects to the struggle that morph into more crucial struggles. Like when your five-year-old
00:57:32.680
is freaking out over sensory issues, it's hard, you might completely miss going to church. You might
00:57:38.540
miss an appointment. You might feel like you're losing your mind in that moment, but it's not
00:57:43.260
going to end in pregnancy. It's not going to end in divorce. It's not going to end in, you know,
00:57:48.300
there are things with your teen and adult children that are going to be much more life affecting
00:57:53.080
than that tantrum. And so walking that fine line of encouraging young moms, like this actually
00:57:59.740
probably isn't quite as life altering and devastating as it feels in this exact moment.
00:58:07.600
This too shall pass. And that is a phrase for a reason, but also certain aspects of this are going
00:58:14.280
to go away and you won't be. I mean, I have people that ask me how I managed to clip my 10 children's
00:58:19.720
fingernails. This is a common question. And I'm like watching my 18 year old walk by and I'm like,
00:58:26.160
yeah, I'm not clipping his fingernails. But we get stuck in a mindset of this that we're in,
00:58:31.680
this struggle we're in right now will always be the same struggle. The struggle will morph and
00:58:35.680
change. There will be seasons of ease and seasons of like extreme challenge. We've been promised that
00:58:41.100
Jesus says in this world, you will have trouble, but be of good cheer for I've overcome it. The world,
00:58:46.020
not just the trouble. And so holding that tension of this is not the worst thing I will ever have to
00:58:53.280
deal with. But also there's so many good things. And these practical things as I'm faithful in them
00:58:57.460
actually will become easier is important. Yeah, that's so good. Small people, small problems,
00:59:03.020
big people, big problems. That's what someone told me before. And it's important for me to remember
00:59:07.700
that. Well, Abby, thank you so much. People can get your book. M is for Mama. Heart is not the same
00:59:12.280
thing as bad. Anywhere they get books, they can also follow you on Instagram. Super fun follow.
00:59:17.560
And M is for Mama.net as well. They can find you there. And gosh, everyone in my audience just
00:59:24.700
loves you so much. You did amazing at Share the Arrows. Everyone was so encouraged. So
00:59:28.800
just thank you for what you do. I'm super grateful and very encouraged by you.
00:59:33.100
Oh, that's so kind. Thanks for having me on, Allie.
00:59:38.900
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