Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1144 ｜ The Theological Errors of Gentle Parenting ｜ Guest： Abbie Halberstadt

00:00:00.760 Abby Halberstadt is a homeschooling mom of 10, and she is here today to give us her best

00:00:09.300 motherhood advice. It is such an encouragement in an age of secular permissive parenting.

00:00:16.580 What does it mean to be a godly yet gentle authority figure in your home? And why has

00:00:24.420 God given us authority over children? And what does it look like to steward that in a biblical

00:00:31.140 and loving way? She's got so many edifying words for us today. You guys will love this conversation.

00:00:38.100 It's brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to goodranchers.com. Use code

00:00:41.960 Allie at checkout. That's goodranchers.com. Code Allie.

00:00:44.820 Abby, thanks so much for taking the time to join us. A lot of people know who you are,

00:00:58.680 but for those who don't, can you tell everyone who you are and what you do?

00:01:01.860 Yeah. Yeah. My name is Abby Halberstadt, and I am a mama to 10. I have a podcast called Emma's for

00:01:08.880 Mama, and that is kind of my whole brand, book, blog that I've done for like 14 years, podcast. And on

00:01:14.340 the podcast, I always start out saying, happy wife, mama to 10, Bible-believing Christian,

00:01:19.020 ending with the most important thing. And so I am a homeschool mama to 10 kids. I never planned

00:01:26.680 to have 10 kids. You're going to hear a lot of moms of many say this. Like very few of us were like,

00:01:30.980 I am gunning for a specific number. But this is what the Lord blessed me with. In fact,

00:01:36.940 I have one brother and everybody always assumes you must have a lot of siblings or this must be what

00:01:40.920 your norm was growing up. Very much so the opposite. I'm the youngest of two,

00:01:45.160 knew nothing about kids, hadn't changed, but a handful of diapers, maybe in church nursery or

00:01:49.700 something. And so this whole process of becoming mama to so many has surprised me as much as it's

00:01:56.720 surprised anybody else that freaks out about it. So, but the Lord's been good. I mean,

00:02:00.500 he's with us every step of the way and it's really, really fun to get to be a mom of so many,

00:02:05.280 but really challenging. Yeah. So if you say that you didn't plan it,

00:02:10.160 you didn't go into marriage thinking we're going to have 10 children. How did this come about? At

00:02:15.220 what point did you and your husband decide, okay, we're just not going to prevent and how ever many

00:02:21.440 children the Lord wants to give us, that's what we're going to have. Right. So my mom did a really

00:02:26.760 good job of talking to me about things like birth control, hormonal birth control, and the downsides to

00:02:31.660 it. Talked to me about the sovereignty of God. I mean, we had some deep theological and medical

00:02:37.300 conversations when I was a teenager and neither my husband nor I had sexual partners before we got

00:02:43.200 married. And so neither one of us were having, you know, scares with pregnancy or trying to prevent

00:02:47.900 with any kind of pills or anything like that. And I really took to heart, even as a teenager,

00:02:55.680 the exhortation for Proverbs 3, 5, and 6, trust in the Lord with all your heart,

00:02:59.140 lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways, acknowledge Him. And He will make your path

00:03:03.780 straight. Because I feel like we tend to kind of do this little, in some of your ways, acknowledge

00:03:09.260 Him. In the easy, comfortable, safe ways, acknowledge Him. And I know what that feels like.

00:03:14.380 Believe me. I'm not one that loves surprises or likes to not feel in control. It's not about that.

00:03:20.820 It's just, there was just this burning conviction in my heart that all your ways included fertility.

00:03:25.740 And so I was actually engaged to a different guy before I married my husband. And one of the

00:03:30.400 sticking points was birth control. Because I had this conviction not to do that to my body,

00:03:34.800 not to engage in something that could be abortifacient and kill an embryo. And he just

00:03:40.660 wasn't on the same page. It wasn't what broke us up. But I knew that I was going to make that something

00:03:45.580 that I presented to any future potential spouse pretty early in the game. In the case of my husband's

00:03:52.580 relationship, it was our second date. We're sitting in the car. He was picking me up from

00:03:56.420 a concert that I already was going to go to. And he didn't have a ticket to. So he picked me up

00:04:00.620 afterwards. We're sitting in the car. I have no idea how I segued into this. I probably knowing my

00:04:04.880 personality just jumped right in. And I remember telling him, these are my convictions, you know,

00:04:11.260 because neither one of us was a real lighthearted type when it came to dating. We weren't going to

00:04:15.120 date unless it was something we wanted to pursue as someone that we might marry.

00:04:19.220 How old are you? I was 21. Okay. And so I kind of laid out this like, I want to honor my body in

00:04:27.840 this way. That might mean that I end up with a lot of kids with whomever I end up with could be like

00:04:32.760 six. I remember saying that number. Well, crazy. Yeah, crazy. It did feel crazy. I just didn't have

00:04:38.820 a point of reference. I didn't know anyone hardly that had that many. Most of us don't. I didn't

00:04:42.660 either. One or two siblings. That's all of my friends. I'm one of three. Same deal. Well,

00:04:47.800 and I did grow up homeschooled and we had several families that had larger numbers of siblings,

00:04:52.420 but it just wasn't something that daily affected my life, I would say. And little did I know that

00:04:57.880 my husband, who is the middle of three whole boys, like not a big family either. Although these days,

00:05:03.600 sometimes three is considered a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Um, that he was thinking like, Oh, eight sounds like a

00:05:11.000 fun number. And he didn't say that out loud in that moment, but he just kind of looked at me in his

00:05:14.820 steady, calm way that I love about him so much and was like, all right, I can deal with that.

00:05:21.500 Yeah. Which was the complete opposite of what I dealt with before. And another relationship where

00:05:26.180 lots of things have been compatible, but like the conviction wasn't matching. Um, and I remember just

00:05:33.080 kind of staring at him cause I had expected something else and thinking, okay, this, this could

00:05:38.820 work. It absolutely did work. First sponsor is WeHeart Nutrition. I've told you about my supplement

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00:07:24.380 You spoke at Share the Arrows, and I don't think that we had time to talk about this,

00:07:33.760 how you met your husband. I know you've just revealed a little bit of what the dating process

00:07:38.500 was like, but tell us about that leading up to marriage and that decision.

00:07:42.580 Yeah. So I was the coordinator for a 20-somethings group at our church. He was a non-believer 1.00

00:07:50.360 and one of my non-negotiables. Of course, as a believer since I was five years old,

00:07:55.700 like I remember the moment that I prayed and asked Jesus to be the Lord of my life,

00:08:00.640 that of course I was never going to date anybody that wasn't a believer. So he was a non-believer.

00:08:06.740 He was coming to our church and hanging out at the events, but as kind of a spectator or a skeptic.

00:08:14.240 He was probably beyond the skepticism phase at that point. He was a seeker, I would say,

00:08:17.460 and the Lord was clearly seeking him. But he wasn't a Christian, and he was coming with some 1.00

00:08:23.480 friends, and I was the coordinator for this 20-somethings group, and I would send out these

00:08:26.980 emails. Well, I'm a total word nerd. I can't send out normal emails. There were references to Jane

00:08:32.880 Austin. There were jokes that people probably thought were corny because they were, and he

00:08:38.060 totally got them, and he loved them. So if he RSVP'd to something, he never sent a normal RSVP.

00:08:43.660 It was always quirky and clever and witty, and it was also spelled and punctuated really well.

00:08:52.220 I'm a total grammar nerd. I was an English teacher for years and have an English degree,

00:08:57.480 and so that kind of thing draws my attention, is really attractive to me. I know people are like,

00:09:02.320 Abby, why do you care? But I do.

00:09:03.660 No, I totally get it.

00:09:04.740 And he cares, and so that caught my attention. His humor caught my attention. His good looks

00:09:09.140 caught my attention. His athleticism. But then we have this problem. He's not a Christian. 1.00

00:09:14.420 But he was clearly a person of integrity. Even without Christ in his life, he was very respectful.

00:09:20.240 I remember for my 21st birthday, he showed up because he had building experience with his dad,

00:09:25.580 and he's actually since gone on to build us three different structures, two of which we lived and

00:09:30.400 then currently live in, and then a sport court. So he can do it all. At the time, I didn't know all of

00:09:35.400 that, but he showed up to help this building project. He didn't know our family well, and he

00:09:40.560 stayed for hours and busted his tail and worked really hard and was super respectful to my family,

00:09:45.260 and I was like, this guy's different.

00:09:48.920 So after weeks, months, really, of showing up to all these events, we were kind of flirting back and

00:09:54.940 forth through email, but I was like, this can't go anywhere. And then there was another dude that was

00:09:58.780 interested in me that I was tutoring in Spanish, air quotes, because I knew the real reason that he

00:10:03.940 wanted me to teach him Spanish. I was also a Spanish major and teacher for several years.

00:10:08.600 And he really wanted to spend time with me, but he wasn't declaring himself.

00:10:14.400 And so at one of these Spanish sessions, he, not knowing that I had any interest in Sean,

00:10:19.840 told me, hey, Sean became a believer like last week. And I mean, if he hadn't been paying attention

00:10:25.220 before, he was probably like, why did she get so interested? I came up, I was like, what?

00:10:30.100 Adios. Yeah, I know. I mean, bye.

00:10:32.100 Yeah, that's right. Adios. And so the minute I found that out, it was game on. And also it was

00:10:39.360 game on for him because he also knew that he couldn't pursue me without that. Like he just,

00:10:43.380 he got that. And he'd pick that up for me for sure. And he was so bold. I remember he called me

00:10:51.000 on my little Nokia brick cell phone, my red Nokia phone from whatever year this is, 2004 or three

00:10:58.760 or something like that. And I didn't know the number normally I wouldn't have picked up. But

00:11:02.820 for some reason I did, I was on a subway with my mom. And one of the things he had teased me about

00:11:06.940 was that in my email, it showed my middle initial, which is E. So he had made up a name for it. And he'd

00:11:14.240 say he was teasing me and calling it ermintrude. So you said, Oh, your middle name must be,

00:11:17.800 you know, just to be silly. Yeah. Kind of thing sounds cheesy now, but I thought it was hilarious. 0.96

00:11:22.120 Yeah. And so I answer my phone and he says, Hello, is this ermintrude? And there's like this

00:11:27.740 long pause. And then I proceed to guffaw, like just laugh out loud. And every person in subway

00:11:32.840 turns around and looks at me. Yeah. Because I'm just, of course, thrilled that this guy is calling.

00:11:36.580 Yeah. He asked me out just as a total gentleman, completely direct after this other guy who was

00:11:42.240 super sweet, had been pursuing me for months, but never like declaring what was going on.

00:11:46.600 It was really attractive that he was so bold. And the rest is kind of history. We dated for

00:11:52.680 eight months and were engaged for eight months and got married in 2005.

00:11:55.540 And you were already engaged though sometime before that.

00:11:58.640 Yeah. It had been, it had been a year since I had been engaged. So I was really, really young

00:12:02.880 when I got engaged. I would think I was 19, which I wouldn't have pictured either. I don't know what

00:12:09.500 I pictured. I didn't have like my life planned out, but I don't think I would have thought I would

00:12:12.420 have been engaged at 19, but yeah. Yes. And then you met Sean, you got married when you were about

00:12:17.720 22, 22. And y'all had already had the conversation. We had already had the talk.

00:12:22.640 This is what, this is what our childbearing is basically going to look like according to the

00:12:28.340 Lord's providence. And so tell us about the early years of marriage, your first baby.

00:12:33.360 Yeah. So we didn't do anything to prevent anything. Um, and we, and I, I had a teaching job

00:12:42.940 as a high school Spanish teacher. I'd already taught for three years, but, um, this was a new

00:12:48.880 position at a new place right after we got married and I got pregnant three months after we got married

00:12:55.500 and my mom quote unquote only had two kids because that's what the Lord gave her. She never prevented 1.00

00:13:02.080 anything. She never tried not to have more kids and her story is one of repetitive miscarriages. 1.00

00:13:07.740 And so that could have been my story too. You know, I had no idea whether I would be super fertile or

00:13:13.120 not and nothing to give me as a kind of touch point to know what to expect. So we didn't get pregnant

00:13:19.940 for three months. And I remember when I announced, um, the pregnancy, which was several months later,

00:13:27.020 like I didn't say anything about being pregnant until I was like 20 weeks or something. Cause like

00:13:30.220 first baby, you don't show that much. Um, and I remember our guidance counselor at this Christian

00:13:36.180 private school that I was teaching at when she found out that I was pregnant early on in marriage

00:13:40.020 said, oops, accidents happen. Oh, that's horrible. I know. And I, my mouth fell open at 42. Now I know

00:13:48.320 exactly what I would have told her. I would have said, nothing is an accident. God is, God is sovereign.

00:13:53.240 And he created this baby at this exact moment in time and chose me to be their mom. And I'm so grateful

00:13:57.760 for that. And so happy about this. That is not what came out of my mouth at 22. I just kind of

00:14:03.020 stared and laughed, even though I didn't think it was funny and didn't say anything, just kind of

00:14:08.700 left the room in shame. And that's a story that I hear a lot from moms when they're kind of belittled

00:14:13.320 for their choices with fertility. They're just like, I didn't know what to say. I didn't know what to do.

00:14:18.660 And it's sad, but, but it's understandable too, because our culture has really, really conditioned us

00:14:23.500 to view children as a burden and to view it as something that you put off until you're ready

00:14:27.060 and to finagle timing and to be in control and all of those things. Well, here we are rejoicing

00:14:32.940 because I wasn't due until the week of finals. And I was like, look at your timing, Lord. I get to

00:14:38.800 teach the whole year. And then if I choose to come back, have the entire summer to have a new baby,

00:14:43.120 I thought God's timing was really cool. Yeah. And so, you know, perspective is what it's all about.

00:14:48.840 Everything. Yeah. And I literally gave birth to my first son one week before our first wedding

00:14:53.000 anniversary and one week after finals ended. Wow. It's perfect timing. Wow.

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00:16:18.040 You have 10 and your oldest is 19.

00:16:21.000 He will be in May. Yeah.

00:16:22.160 Almost 19. And then your youngest, they're four, and you've got two sets of twins.

00:16:27.980 Yeah.

00:16:28.380 Eight years apart to the day.

00:16:30.400 Yes. They share the same birthday, which always blows people's minds.

00:16:33.120 Twins. We do have two sets of twins. And I think I mentioned just a little while ago something about

00:16:38.680 like, you know, I struggle with God's sovereignty too, or not always being open-handed. The number

00:16:43.700 one thing, or pretty much the only thing that I really reserved for myself, as if I had any control

00:16:48.840 over it, was, okay, Lord, give us the children you have for us. We're open to whatever, you know,

00:16:54.980 just one at a time. Like, don't do this multiple things. That sounds terrible.

00:16:58.320 Like, that was my viewpoint on twins. So we've actually been pregnant with twins three times.

00:17:04.260 Our first set are 12, Evie and Nola. They are identical girl twins. And then right after them,

00:17:11.080 our next son, Theo, had an identical twin that we lost to vanishing twin syndrome. And he also

00:17:19.020 would have been a monodi twin, which is where you have an egg that splits basically into two

00:17:26.040 amniotic sacks, but they share one placenta. It's unusual for you to have one set of identical

00:17:31.540 twins. And then to be pregnant twice with twins is unusual. And then our third set is also identical

00:17:36.420 as well. So, and then they ended up coming on the same day, which is, which is crazy.

00:17:40.420 Which is crazy. And I don't know if this is TMI, but we've talked about like birth and my birth

00:17:44.600 story is on here. You said, I think on Instagram that you've never had a C-section.

00:17:48.640 Correct.

00:17:49.600 That is amazing. Have you ever had like pregnancy complications or birth complications that

00:17:54.640 ever put any fear in your mind about having more kids?

00:17:58.180 No. And I, uh, one of my mentors, Jennifer Flanders, she has 12 kids. She's about 17 years

00:18:03.680 ahead of me. I love her grace filled approach to this topic. Cause she always says, I don't

00:18:10.780 presume to know what I would do. I trust fully in the sovereignty of God, but I don't presume

00:18:15.240 to know what I would do or what my husband would want us to do. If I were experiencing

00:18:20.360 hyperemesis gravidarum and in the hospital, every time I got pregnant and I wasn't, neither was

00:18:23.980 I, she wasn't, neither was I. If I had a super traumatic birth and the doctor is recommending

00:18:30.240 for, you know, certain procedures, she's like, I don't presume to know. I would have had to

00:18:35.140 cross that path when I got to it. In my case, I've had pretty straightforward pregnancies.

00:18:41.740 Um, both of my sets of twins were considered high risk because of the fact that they, um,

00:18:46.800 they only have one placenta to support both of them. And while twins are just kind of high risk

00:18:53.000 anyway, I suppose. But, um, and then I've definitely had struggles during pregnancy,

00:18:58.620 but none that absolutely kept me from being able to do daily life for the most part.

00:19:05.000 And then my second set of twins, my first I had at home and was one of the best births.

00:19:11.380 You had your first set of twins at home. Yeah. How many weeks gestation?

00:19:14.880 39 weeks and four days. You made it to almost 40 weeks with both sets of twins or just the first?

00:19:20.060 The second was 37 weeks and two days. That's still amazing. Yeah.

00:19:23.140 Because sometimes twins come really early, 34 weeks even.

00:19:26.800 Well, and talking about perspective, one of the things my amazing midwife who delivered my first set 0.85

00:19:31.540 of twins told me, she said, you will be told if you go the allopathic route, if you got kind of

00:19:36.380 the traditional route with multiples or with a lot of, with a lot of birthing experiences and they

00:19:42.160 can be great. But she said, especially with multiples and the high risk factor, you will be

00:19:46.160 told that you will probably have these babies by 35 weeks. There's so much mindset that's involved

00:19:51.960 in here. I want you to, to assume because I keep babies in, I have babies at 42 weeks. Most of my

00:19:58.160 other ones. I know. All of my kids have come in around 42 weeks. I know. It's, it's miserable

00:20:02.260 until you just decide you get two bonus weeks of dates and like maybe next. Exactly. And eating

00:20:06.300 whatever you want to. Yeah. You're just like, whatever, man, we're just going with it. Um,

00:20:11.060 so she said, you go to 42 weeks with singletons. We're going for 40. Yeah. And she told me to eat

00:20:17.260 a ton of protein to keep the amniotic sex strong. She told me to keep moving. I'm a fitness instructor

00:20:22.320 and I exercised throughout the entire pregnancy because it felt good. I mean, at the exact

00:20:28.160 moment, it didn't feel good a lot of times, but it kept my energy up. It gave me stamina.

00:20:32.900 I knew I wanted to be strong during birth. And so my first set were born at home. One was

00:20:40.040 seven pounds and one was six and a half pounds almost. Well, six pounds, five ounces, but, um,

00:20:45.740 close enough. And, uh, it was the best birth I've ever had. It was a phenomenal birth.

00:20:50.100 So my second set, I really wanted to do home again, but the midwife I was using my first

00:20:55.460 midwife that helped me through that whole process actually had a stroke and died. 1.00

00:20:58.840 Oh my God. I know. Um, but again, the board's timing. Yes, it was so sad. She was really young.

00:21:03.840 She was like 62 and she was such a help to so many people. Um, I actually got shingles right

00:21:09.120 after I had Evianola and horrible time. Well, and it was, it was probably the birth and you know,

00:21:17.220 all the, all the stresses you're going through feeding two babies at night and stuff. And she

00:21:21.020 got me through it. Whereas doctors were like, you're going to have to stop breastfeeding. You're

00:21:24.540 going to have to. And she was like, Nope, we're going to do this protocol and you're going to be

00:21:28.040 okay. And I was, um, so she was such a godsend. So it was a different midwife, equally wonderful,

00:21:33.540 but she was closing down in practice and wasn't delivering at home anymore. So I actually split

00:21:37.700 care between her and a traditional OBGYN, but I had to deliver in an OR. So very different

00:21:43.540 experience. Oh, okay. First baby came out great. Second baby was like this. Here I am

00:21:49.200 straight up and down. He was transverse straight across presenting with his arms still in the

00:21:53.220 sack. But if the sack had broken, which it was very likely about to, the cord was presenting

00:22:00.160 as well. It would have come out and I would have had to have a C-section. Like there was

00:22:03.000 a delivery, there was like a surgery table, like they were ready to do it. Yeah. And my OBGYN

00:22:08.400 got up in there. It was the first epidural I've ever had. It wore off an hour before I delivered

00:22:14.340 them. So it was gone, which I mean, I did transition with it. So it was an interesting

00:22:18.680 experience. And she got up in there with this epidural worn off and physically turned him

00:22:24.380 and pulled him out. He came out gray and floppy, not breathing very well at all. And I'm holding a

00:22:29.280 baby on my chest, trying to see what's going on. And they're pulling him away for oxygen.

00:22:33.040 And afterwards, I remember my midwife who got to attend, this was 2020. So there was weird

00:22:38.460 stuff going on in delivery rooms all across the world. But thankfully my OBGYN was like,

00:22:43.580 no, no, we're declaring her and your husband necessary medical personnel. They're going to

00:22:47.060 be there. It was great. So my midwife told me, listen, we would have done all the things

00:22:53.200 that she did if you'd had him at home. But when he didn't respond to oxygen the first time,

00:22:56.880 we would have gotten an ambulance. So seeing the Lord's sovereignty and having me in the right

00:23:00.620 place, even though that's not where I wanted to be, was amazing and so reassuring.

00:23:05.420 I think that's a really important lesson because a lot of us have birth regret or things that

00:23:13.180 happened to us during birth that just make us sad or we would just wish that things had gone

00:23:19.720 differently. I had that a lot with just my first two, but especially my first because it truly was

00:23:24.980 an unnecessary C-section and I didn't know any better at the time. But at the end of the day,

00:23:31.060 I do have to trust. I can take lessons from that and I did because I ended up having a V-back after

00:23:36.160 two C-sections. But I can do that while also trusting in the Lord's sovereignty that there

00:23:41.580 could have been things that I did not see, that I did not know, and that God in that moment was

00:23:47.460 working all things, even the chaotic things, together for my good and for his glory.

00:23:53.440 And I think women need to hear that during birth because so often women are dismissed like their 0.90

00:23:59.380 fears or their sadness or whatever it is when it comes to the actual labor and delivery.

00:24:03.900 While at the same time, I think there's a balance. Some people allow that fear to stop them from

00:24:08.560 having more kids or stop them from having kids altogether.

00:24:12.100 Yeah. I have a friend who has seven who is, I mean, she's in her sixties at this point. Most of her

00:24:17.500 kids are grown. She had seven C-sections.

00:24:20.520 Wow.

00:24:20.960 And every single time it is. And I'm not, this is, someone's going to be like,

00:24:24.760 Abby, don't tell people this. You're not, you shouldn't advocate for this. I'm not advocating

00:24:27.920 for it. I'm just sharing an example of the Lord's goodness and faithfulness to answer when we ask for

00:24:32.840 wisdom because the Bible says that he will. That's one of the promises from scripture that he will

00:24:36.780 freely give us wisdom when we seek it. So each time she had a C-section, she asked her doctor to do an

00:24:42.340 ultrasound and check the, like the thickness of her womb and make sure that things, and she had 1.00

00:24:46.800 a doctor who was willing to give her a thumbs up or a thumbs down. And after her seventh, which was

00:24:51.860 in her forties, because she had an odd, like she had a baby at like 30, didn't have another one for 0.97

00:24:56.560 years. And then boom, boom, boom, boom, had six more in like her late thirties and early forties. 0.99

00:25:00.840 Wow.

00:25:01.180 Completely not what we would expect as a normal birth trajectory. And the doctor finally told her,

00:25:07.860 I wouldn't recommend having another one. And her husband sat down beside the bed and they

00:25:12.240 prayed for the Lord to open her and close her womb. According to his will, she never got pregnant 0.95

00:25:16.340 again. And she had been getting pregnant every year for the last like seven years. So this is

00:25:21.840 not medical advice. Don't freak out. But I just, hearing her say like that the goodness of the

00:25:26.480 Lord and his direction was so clear through her husband's prayer was just, I don't know, it was really

00:25:30.120 cool.

00:25:34.440 So I am a big fan of chips and guac. You know, I grew up in Texas and so I'm a Tex-Mex

00:25:42.080 girl. I can't go very many days in a row without chips and salsa or chips and guacamole. But most

00:25:49.340 chips that you buy, especially those at restaurants, they are dipped and are fried in canola oil and

00:25:55.160 all kinds of things. And seed oils are very inflammatory and it's really hard to find a

00:25:59.880 genuinely natural chip, tortilla chip that is actually good for you. And that's why I love

00:26:07.120 masa chips because masa chips are totally free of seed oils. They just use organic corn, grass-fed

00:26:13.720 and finished beef tallow and Redmond sea salt. Beef tallow is really good for your skin. It's filled

00:26:19.020 with all kinds of vitamins. So it's not just that these chips aren't bad for you. They're also actually

00:26:24.700 good for you. All chips and fries used to be cooked in tallow until the 80s and 90s. We need to go

00:26:30.580 back to that and masa chips is, and they also just taste incredible. You don't have to compromise

00:26:36.300 on the taste just because you get rid of seed oils. Go to masachips.com. Use my code AllieB.

00:26:43.780 You'll get a discount on your order. I love these things. Masachips.com, promo code AllieB.

00:26:49.380 Did you ever go through postpartum anxiety or depression or, you know, sometimes people talk

00:26:59.020 about postpartum rage, which I don't know, maybe it's a part of either of those things?

00:27:02.720 Yeah. So I am a coper and a compensator, probably to a fault. So there are things I don't realize are

00:27:12.320 going on until after when I can look back and I feel better. I think that's a lot of people,

00:27:16.740 that's not like a badge of honor. I think that's how we function as moms. A lot of times you have 0.99

00:27:21.120 to do what you have to do. And so you get through it. Looking back, I think I had mild postpartum

00:27:26.680 depression after Avianola. I can just remember periods where I just felt really blank when I

00:27:31.060 knew I should feel happy. Like things were going really well. It'd be a happy family moment. And I

00:27:35.260 was just kind of there. My hormones regulated in about six months and it wasn't anything that I felt like

00:27:41.360 was insurmountable. But, and even at the time I was just kind of getting through it. And afterwards,

00:27:47.620 I was like, Oh, that wasn't me. Like that was, I was, that was a different person for a while,

00:27:51.200 you know? And so sometimes there are periods like that. And then after our seventh, so I mentioned

00:27:57.380 my husband has built a couple of our houses and he really does do like almost all the work with his

00:28:02.440 dad, who was a contractor. And so when I was pregnant with, and right after I had our number seven,

00:28:08.500 we were building our second house, which was a two-year build. And I was doing a lot of solo

00:28:13.740 parenting, a lot of solo homeschooling, a lot of solo, all the things. But when you have a goal

00:28:18.200 you're working toward, you can do it together. And it's a short-term thing. And, but after we moved

00:28:24.400 in, my four-month-old had a sleep regression. I had red dirt everywhere in my house because it was

00:28:29.460 sort of kind of finished, but not completely. And there's seas of red dirt in East Texas.

00:28:33.560 Everything was a mess. We were going through a really hard friendship breakup with our best friends.

00:28:37.380 And I had anxiety. I remember my husband talking to me and trying to ask me questions and feeling

00:28:42.700 like I had bees in my brain. Like, I can't process what you're saying. I can't breathe. I can't, you

00:28:48.400 know, that kind of thing. And I had never really dealt with anxiety before. And again, it eventually

00:28:54.340 evened out. It was a lot of being outside in the sunshine and praying. And I think if I know more

00:29:02.280 what I know now about holistic things, I could have supported my hormones a little better,

00:29:06.340 but I kind of just made it through because I had to. And then after our number eight, I experienced

00:29:11.820 postpartum rage. I didn't know what to call it. I just knew I was ticked off all the time.

00:29:16.580 And about two months into that, I remember one afternoon just kind of flipping out on my kids

00:29:21.980 because things didn't get cleaned right. And my husband very kindly saying, I know you're struggling.

00:29:26.480 And I know that this is hard and you're, you're carrying a lot, but we're going to have to work

00:29:31.720 on this. And I was feeling the same conviction. So I actually started something called the general

00:29:35.940 illness challenge. Just the Lord gave me the idea. I don't even know where it came from. So 30 days

00:29:40.680 of only kind speech or keeping my mouth shut didn't mean that I actually succeeded. But what was

00:29:47.380 fascinating was the science behind it, because there is science that shows that the way you speak,

00:29:51.920 the way you order your face, smiling, things like that actually retrains the neural pathways of your

00:29:56.180 brain toward positivity instead of despair and negativity. And the more you practice it and

00:30:03.080 refuse one and feed the other, I mean, this is like a pet. You can't starve something and feed the

00:30:10.980 other and not expect the other to be stronger. Right. And we know that life and death are in the

00:30:15.020 power of the tongue and those who love it, either life or death will eat of its fruit, either life or

00:30:18.380 death. So for 30 days with my family's knowledge and their help, and then I started a thing online and

00:30:23.300 thousands of women flooded in and said, this is me too. This is me. This is me. And we all did it

00:30:28.560 together. And it was truly life changing. I mean, I wasn't a screamer before or anything, but I just

00:30:33.380 found myself navigating toward the negative because I just was so irritable all the time. But it changed

00:30:39.440 my hormones. It really did. It went from feeling insurmountable. In some moments, it wasn't all the

00:30:44.600 time, but in some moments of stress or not eating enough or, you know, not getting enough sleep

00:30:48.940 to very mindful and like, I have a choice here. Yes. I think that is the key there because even

00:30:55.980 when we hear hormones and different kind of diagnoses, not that those don't all have an

00:31:02.500 effect on our mood, but the fact that you said, I still have a choice. My hormones don't control me.

00:31:08.620 They're not like the Lord of my life or the like controller of my tongue. Like I can still choose to

00:31:14.400 smile. I can still choose kind speech. And you're saying that that was actually what affected your

00:31:19.900 hormones. Yeah. Not to say that people shouldn't get their hormones checked and try to balance it and

00:31:24.560 all of that, but that is not like the determinant of whether or not you are able to be self-controlled

00:31:31.560 and gentle. And that's really important for me to hear, for everyone to hear.

00:31:35.480 Well, and far from being something that's condemning you, that's actually really freedom.

00:31:39.280 It's for freedom that Christ has set us free and we cannot be free if we don't preach truth to

00:31:44.680 ourselves. And the truth is that we, one thing that we did that was very practical was I memorized

00:31:50.460 Ephesians four with my kids. Ephesians four, two says, be completely humble and gentle bearing with

00:31:54.260 one another in love. I don't, that's also the one that says in your anger, do not sin. Also let no

00:31:59.540 unwholesome talk come out of your mouth. Don't give the devil a foothold. Don't go to bed angry.

00:32:03.080 There's like so much packed into one chapter that can be so convicting and conviction is good,

00:32:10.580 but condemnation is not. Condemnation is from Satan. Conviction and an absolute assurance

00:32:17.560 that Christ is calling you to something is from the Lord. And so to see where that process has led.

00:32:24.340 Now, do I always speak kindly to my children? No, I do not. Have I done the challenge before or again?

00:32:28.860 Yes. And I actually made it a day. I made it like a devotional. So you can actually access

00:32:34.380 something where it will walk you through every day with scripture, a thing to focus on. And I hear

00:32:39.000 from moms all the time that do it together with their families or with girlfriends and talk about

00:32:42.700 how transformational it is. And where can they get it? You can find it on MSRoma.net under the shop.

00:32:48.280 Okay. And it's called the gentleness challenge. And it's a 30 day challenge of only speaking gentle,

00:32:53.660 kind words or shutting your mouth. Right. Yeah. And I want to clarify something.

00:32:58.620 Yeah. Because I'm not a naturally gentle person. Yeah. I'm fun. I'm nice. All those things. But I

00:33:03.500 am much more likely to be put on your shoes. Let's go. Then I am. Hey, sweetie, let's talk about

00:33:08.080 putting on your shoes. Let's think about this. Directness and firmness is not contrary to

00:33:13.260 gentleness. Gentleness is not weakness. Yeah. It's not getting trod on. It is a willingness to temper

00:33:23.560 strength with kindness. Yeah. And so just because you're a direct mom doesn't mean you can't be a

00:33:28.600 gentle mom too. Yes. And talk about the difference between this kind of gentle and then the gentle

00:33:33.860 parenting that says, at least from my understanding, it's a completely contrary view of human nature to

00:33:42.600 what the Bible teaches, which is that you are naturally good inside. All of these outside factors

00:33:47.940 might be making you feel big or making you feel bad. But deep down, you're basically perfect. And

00:33:55.240 gentle parenting recognizes and honors that inner perfection of a child. That's psychology speak,

00:34:02.940 but that's what I kind of understand a lot of gentle parenting experts believe about parenting

00:34:08.720 and children. Right. And there is actually a book, I think it's called Jesus the Gentle Parent, which

00:34:13.240 obviously has some theological problems even in the title. Jesus is not a parent. His goal on earth was

00:34:20.460 not to be a parent. We can take examples from his lead, but if we actually do take examples from his

00:34:27.100 lead, we are not going to come out with man and children specifically are basically good.

00:34:35.280 Jesus actually said from the overflow of the mouth, the heart speaks. And he wasn't meaning that your heart

00:34:39.460 is pure and your mouth is speaking kind words. And he was very clear that we are to go and sin no more.

00:34:45.980 Now, a lot of people say, well, Jesus was speaking to adults and he's very welcoming to children. That's

00:34:52.220 very true. But there's nothing ever that Jesus has done to deny the truth of scripture as a whole.

00:34:58.400 And we know from the Old Testament that the heart of man is desperately wicked. We know from the New

00:35:02.460 Testament that we're all born into sin because we're all descendants of Adam. And that includes our

00:35:07.520 children. And I think that one of the things that gentle parenting robs parents and children of

00:35:14.480 is the opportunity to seek their savior. Because if we truly believe that we're dealing with a

00:35:20.860 sinless being and that it's only their circumstances or something beyond their control that's going to

00:35:27.820 force them into sinful behavior, then there's really nothing to be saved from. Whereas, and I see this

00:35:35.240 from gentle parenting forums where parents who follow the philosophy but also claim Christ are really

00:35:43.700 struggling to reconcile the clashing theology that says, my child is basically good, so why did Jesus

00:35:52.720 die on the cross for him? I can't figure out how to explain those things. Whereas, I love that I get

00:35:58.340 to preach the good news of the gospel to my children every day. We do catechisms, so we learn things about

00:36:03.840 the Trinity and we learn about what sin is. So if you ask even my five-year-old what is sin, he says,

00:36:08.780 disobeying God's law. He knows that it's not, I'm an evil, horrible person who God hates. It's like,

00:36:16.680 yeah, we're evil, but God loves us and he has done this amazing thing for us that only he could do.

00:36:22.500 None of our goodness, whatever that looks like, could ever save us because the Bible tells us it's

00:36:26.840 like filthy rags. That's how good our goodness can get is like yucky menstrual rags is kind of the

00:36:34.160 reference that that is. And so while I'm not using that to talk to my five-year-old and I'm not

00:36:40.580 certainly walking around because there is a misconception that if we acknowledge sin to

00:36:44.460 small children, that they will acknowledge forever separation from God and hell or the concept of

00:36:51.040 discipline or any of those things, that we're going to present to them an image of an angry and 0.75

00:36:56.060 vengeful God who is out to get them and squash them like a bug.

00:36:58.840 And shame, self-shame. That's what I hear a lot, that if you are not that kind of secular version

00:37:05.200 of a gentle parent, and if you talk about sin and needing a savior, then you're shaming a child and

00:37:11.180 you're trying to get them to like live in the shadows, which is obviously not at all true.

00:37:16.400 And I have 10 children. I have many, many friends who have every number of children under the sun

00:37:21.660 who are consistently teaching the truth of God's word to their children, which is that we are all

00:37:30.120 desperately in need of a savior, but the good news is that we have one and that we can boldly approach

00:37:34.600 the throne of grace because of the mercy of our savior who has already covered our sins with his

00:37:40.280 blood. There's no shame in that. It's covered and gone. It's separated as far as the east is from

00:37:45.680 the west. And to see children begin to grasp that and to like the joy spread across their face of like,

00:37:52.260 Jesus loves me this much. I would never want to rob a child of that. It's so far from shame. It's

00:37:57.480 truly the best gift we can offer them. And children just innately understand that things aren't all as

00:38:04.980 they should be. It doesn't take very long in their life to see for them to see that some people aren't

00:38:12.240 acting the way that they should, that some people are mean, that some people are bad, that some bad

00:38:16.900 things are happening or that people get sick and people die. Again, it just doesn't take them very

00:38:23.740 long into their life to pick up on, huh, this is not all happy all the time. Why is that? We went to

00:38:31.180 the Bible Museum a couple of weeks ago and we went through the Old Testament, which is like an

00:38:37.360 immersive experience, which I wouldn't really recommend for kids my kids age. I didn't realize

00:38:43.040 it at the time, like how scary it would be. And by the time we got to the plagues, my five-year-old

00:38:49.320 was like, I am out. And afterwards, but she was genuinely so sincerely sad. And her question was,

00:38:57.080 why did Adam and Eve have to sin? I don't want them to have sinned because she understood that it was

00:39:02.920 from that sin that all of this brokenness happened. And she understands even when we get sick today,

00:39:09.260 that it's part of that brokenness. And so she already understands that I really didn't have

00:39:14.420 to teach her all that much about the existence of sin. You see it so quickly, but what, as you were

00:39:20.340 saying, I get to teach her is that there is redemption from that. And there is a good thing

00:39:25.560 that we get to look forward to. And guess what? One day you will never be sick again. You'll never have a

00:39:30.360 tummy bug. You will never have disappointment. You will never have sadness. You'll never struggle

00:39:36.020 with sharing. None of that will happen because everything will be peaceful and perfect and

00:39:40.340 joyful. And that's all because of Jesus. Like that's better news than see all the bad stuff

00:39:45.260 that you're happening. That's all just a big misunderstanding. And we're all secretly good

00:39:49.460 inside. It just, that worldview really doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

00:39:54.740 No, it doesn't. It's not in line with reality as we see it. And it's not terribly honest.

00:39:59.140 So one of the things that you're saying is like, our kids are able to grasp that something is

00:40:03.880 broken. What we can help them to do is to acknowledge and be more honest about their

00:40:10.140 part in that. How often is it, he hit me, he did this to me. And we can ask them honest questions

00:40:16.620 that are less about how they felt when they did something and the why behind it.

00:40:21.180 That's good.

00:40:22.420 Because, and I think there are probably some gentle parents out there listening and saying,

00:40:25.640 that is what I'm doing. I'm asking why. But there is a hyper focus in some instances on how you felt

00:40:33.220 about how things went. When the Bible focuses more on the truth of how we are to be regardless of what

00:40:40.940 our emotions tell us. God gives us emotions and they are wonderful gifts. The way you feel when you

00:40:46.800 meet your newborn's eyes for the first time has everything to do with the hormones and emotions

00:40:50.900 that God so graciously gave you and nothing to do with that little wrinkled ball of skin actually 0.88

00:40:55.360 should be invoking in you. A lot of times they're not real cute when they come out. And you think

00:41:00.400 they're the most beautiful thing you've ever seen. That's a gift from God and that's emotion.

00:41:04.180 And that is wonderful. So you'll never hear me denigrating emotion for emotion's sake in the way

00:41:08.700 that it's given to us rightly from God. But to then valorize it as being something that should

00:41:15.960 then control our actions, should control our motives, gives us a right to mistreat others,

00:41:23.880 whether we view it as mistreatment or not. An example, one of my friends, her daughter

00:41:29.520 has a cousin who I think they do kind of the gentle parenting approach. And the cousin often tells the

00:41:38.020 I need me time when the daughter doesn't get to see her cousin very often. And so in the few times

00:41:44.360 they get to hang out, because she has been told kind of this bubble of autonomy, this bubble of how

00:41:49.860 you feel in this exact moment. Philippians 2.4 says we're to look not only to our own needs, but to the

00:41:55.660 needs of others and to consider others as more important than ourselves. The gentle parenting

00:42:00.620 secular philosophy flips that on its head and says, if you don't look to yourself first and find your

00:42:05.480 truth within yourself, even as a child, and focus on how you feel and make sure you're okay with this

00:42:11.660 interaction, you can't possibly have the interaction be genuine. When in fact, it's more like the other

00:42:18.360 way around. Whether we feel like being kind to someone, when we choose kindness, the feelings often

00:42:22.980 follow. And even if they don't, we're doing the right thing as unto the Lord.

00:42:26.960 Yeah. And again, that is a freeing reality. People see that as some kind of like oppressive

00:42:32.960 religious dogma, but that's actually freeing that we are not ruled by our emotions. Again,

00:42:41.000 that doesn't mean that emotions are bad. There is a place, I think, for helping kids understand

00:42:46.020 their emotions, but bridling those emotions, submitting those emotions to both like the factual

00:42:53.140 truth of a situation, but also biblical truth. I think that that is so often what is missing in

00:43:00.500 gentle parenting. Emotions rule. Everything is just about big feelings and talking about our big

00:43:07.600 feelings, the therapy sessions with the kids, which I almost think kind of make things get out of hand

00:43:12.680 rather than saying, look, here's the truth of the situation and here are the values and the rules

00:43:17.200 of our family. And I know you're tired, but this is what we're going to do.

00:43:20.580 Well, and one thing that I have noticed, because this is something that I've engaged with a lot,

00:43:25.240 this is something that is really scary to engage with because there's a lot of pushback

00:43:29.220 because there's kind of a, the experts say, um, what we're not acknowledging is the experts said

00:43:35.260 something else 20 years ago and 20 years before that, the experts will say something different

00:43:38.840 in 20 years. The concept of feeling as if we have discovered ultimate truth every 20 years or so,

00:43:44.540 whether it's with parenting or something else is not new, but at the moment the experts say this,

00:43:50.420 and it has been going this direction for a while, certainly. And so it is a little scary to be a

00:43:57.020 voice speaking against it. I don't feel scared of it, but it is daunting sometimes with the responses

00:44:02.220 that you get. And so engaging with this, I'm really careful to look and see how it's actually

00:44:09.340 being played out because I think we can caricature each other really easily. All general parents are

00:44:13.700 just permissive and their kids are monsters. Not true. I have friends that general parent and their

00:44:18.300 kids are very sweet. I don't necessarily agree with all the methods and the, and the, the philosophies

00:44:23.980 or the methodologies, but it's not my business to go and parent their kids for them. I'm simply going

00:44:29.660 to speak to principles from God's word that I think are the absolute best way of doing things

00:44:35.180 in the way you apply them will look different for every family. And that's incredibly freeing too.

00:44:40.340 You see very little of that in the gentle parenting crowd. There's a lot of fear of doing it wrong.

00:44:46.140 And there's a lot of responsibility laid at parents' doors that they're the reason that

00:44:51.340 their child can't respond well. If you were emotionally dysregulated, if you did this list

00:44:56.820 of things, didn't respond well, didn't honor their autonomy, didn't, then this is the reason why they

00:45:00.820 are sassy to you, disobedient, beating the wall, whatever it is. 0.58

00:45:04.980 Well, it is scary. I'm, I'm just now thinking about this. It would be intimidating to be told

00:45:09.580 basically to take on the role of a therapist and not a parent. God has equipped you to be a parent.

00:45:15.060 He has not equipped you to necessarily be a therapist. That doesn't mean that you're never

00:45:19.160 talking about feelings or that that role doesn't come into play. But yeah, if you are like imbibing

00:45:24.780 all of this like psychobabble about how to like best maximize or optimize your kids' emotions,

00:45:30.820 and you see that as your primary role as a parent, that is really daunting because most of us don't

00:45:36.140 have a psychology degree when really it seems like what you're saying is parenting, especially in

00:45:41.460 accordance with God's word is actually a lot simpler than a lot of the psychiatrists are making

00:45:46.220 it out to be.

00:45:46.840 Right. One of my favorite verses about parenting is Deuteronomy 6, 6 through 8. You're supposed to

00:45:52.300 impress upon your children God's ways as you walk, sit, lie, and stand. I talk about this all the time

00:45:57.920 on my podcast. Basically, as you do life together, you show them what it's like to honor God's ways

00:46:05.200 and to impress upon them by modeling, by talking about it, by showing it, by apologizing when you

00:46:11.460 don't show it. You have all of these opportunities, and it really doesn't say anything about your

00:46:16.100 feelings about God's ways. It just says to impress them. One thing I've noticed in some of the bigger

00:46:20.980 accounts on general parenting is they will talk about holding boundaries, and I believe that they

00:46:25.780 do hold boundaries often. They might do it differently than I do, but I'm not saying that every

00:46:30.160 general parent never has a boundary or holds it. But one of the ways they often hold boundaries is almost

00:46:34.500 by tricking children into doing things, and they will share about the game they played with their

00:46:39.480 child to get them willing to go out the door for camp or school. And it's not shared in a way that

00:46:46.200 shows that they think that this is a bad idea. It's very clear that this is like a tool in your toolbox

00:46:52.060 to, to me, it seems very manipulative, to have almost outsmarted your child into getting them to do

00:47:00.620 something that they were resistant to. And while there are lots of great ways that we can encourage

00:47:06.540 our kids without their realizing exactly what's going on, because that's kind of our job as parents.

00:47:11.120 Sometimes you make it fun, or sometimes you distract them because they're too small to

00:47:14.540 overcome their emotions or their tiredness. That's your job. If we talk about holding boundaries,

00:47:22.560 but we have to jump through psychological hoops to say, it is time to get in the car,

00:47:27.380 I think we're going to be exhausted. And I really, really want to offer hope to tired,

00:47:33.620 busy moms that it is perfectly reasonable to do things simply and repetitively and God-honoringly 1.00

00:47:40.180 and to say, mama has said it's time to do this, and that is why we're doing it. And that is okay.

00:47:46.580 I hope that frees some mom that thinks that for some reason she cannot say that because that's my

00:47:50.840 way or the highway. God has put us in a position of authority for a reason. He has chosen us and not

00:47:55.800 someone else. He has predestined us for good works before the foundation of the world was laid. And

00:48:01.220 taking that seriously means sometimes you just do it.

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00:49:35.780 What does, at an early age, like toddlers, you're really starting to teach them about discipline and

00:49:41.540 obedience? Like what does enforcing those boundaries really look like? Like what does discipline

00:49:47.160 typically look like? If it's not those kind of, you know, games, manipulation tactics, what does it

00:49:54.540 look like? So this is one of the biggest questions that I get asked. And it's the one I'm the cagiest

00:49:58.840 about and drive people crazy because I don't think it's Abby Halberstadt's job to come into your home 0.95

00:50:04.200 and tell you exactly how to give a consequence. I don't think it's anybody's job, if I'm completely

00:50:09.340 honest. I do think that the principles of discipline are there. In Hebrews 12, it says,

00:50:15.100 no discipline is pleasant at the time, but at the time it's painful, but it's used for good. It's

00:50:21.060 charitable. And it also says that the Lord disciplines those whom he calls sons. A lot

00:50:26.240 of people try to turn this into pedagogy to say that it is simply teaching. And there's tons of

00:50:31.320 teaching that goes on as parenting. But this is talking about actual consequences. This is talking

00:50:35.760 about something that you shouldn't enjoy and that if your kid just shrugs it off. For some kids,

00:50:40.080 it's going to be taking away their books. For little kids, it may just be limiting access to

00:50:45.740 something physically. Like you may have to physically take something away. There are all kinds of other

00:50:51.140 examples. But I will tell you, one, you're going to have to make sure that they actually heard you.

00:50:56.080 Little kids have certain developmental limitations. And general parenting and psychology

00:50:59.680 talks about developmental limitations way more than a lot of Christian parenting books do. And I think

00:51:07.180 there's some validity to that. Yeah, that's important. If we don't understand what a three-year-old's

00:51:11.020 capable of and we are just snapping our fingers and saying, get it together. That's not what the Bible

00:51:16.020 calls us to at all. We're called to be humble and gentle, bearing with one another in love. That means

00:51:20.500 that we bear with them in a developmentally appropriate way. So a three-year-old will not

00:51:26.600 necessarily hear you say, get your shoes and get in the car and then do it because their brain is

00:51:32.040 developmentally engaged in running the car over the carpet over and over again. It is up to us as

00:51:38.660 parents to inconvenience ourselves to go over and get down on eye level with that three-year-old and

00:51:44.080 say, hey, mama needs you to do this. And if they're still distracted, to take them by the hand, show them

00:51:49.980 their shoes and help them if they need help. Will it mess up our schedule? Possibly. Will it head off a lot

00:51:56.160 of pain and heartache and screaming? Yeah. So the inconvenience on the front end is way better than

00:52:01.980 the meltdown on the back end. Yeah. I have found, and you can tell me if you found this too, that

00:52:07.300 usually it is the harder thing that is the right thing. Like what you just described, like, okay,

00:52:13.680 it took me more time and more effort and more thoughts to get down on my hands and knees to like

00:52:19.220 really make sure that they're understanding or even like in bigger ways. I mean, we don't do like

00:52:24.520 screens and stuff as a family, like as a form of entertainment. They don't have like iPads or

00:52:30.140 anything, but there are definitely times when I'm like, it would be way easier to just be able to do

00:52:37.700 that at a restaurant or something. But I also have found as they've gotten older because they aren't

00:52:44.960 distracted by that, that they've gotten a lot better at sitting through dinner and sitting at

00:52:50.280 restaurants and being in public and talking to adults. But it took some hard years during like

00:52:56.660 two and three of being like, okay, we're not going to do that. We're not going to take the like short

00:53:02.340 term easy way. And please, I'm not saying that like we have done this perfectly in every regard at all.

00:53:07.580 Just talking about the times that we have chosen the hard thing, the thing that takes longer,

00:53:13.140 the thing that takes more patience and more energy from us has typically been the right thing.

00:53:18.440 And the time that we have taken the shortcuts has been easier in the moment, but long-term we've

00:53:24.660 been like, hmm, I don't know if we set her up for success there or we helped her there. Do you think

00:53:31.540 that that's like a principle? Am I alone in that? No, I was literally about to say, moms, listen to what

00:53:37.420 Allie is saying. This is absolutely true. Front-loading your challenges so that you can- That's a good way to

00:53:42.700 say it. So that you can reap the benefits in the future is so huge. My second book is called

00:53:48.060 Heart is Not the Same Thing is Bad. Yeah. And it was because I was getting asked at the time that

00:53:53.540 that phrase came to me, not that I'm the only one that says it or I coined it really, but I'm known

00:53:58.920 for it at this point. At the time that phrase came to me, I had six small children. My oldest was eight

00:54:04.240 and people were like, okay, she has a little bit of an age range. Mine are a little younger than her.

00:54:08.580 She has quite a few. Like maybe she's figured out the formula to bypass this hard. And that's the DM

00:54:14.620 that I was getting. Okay. So how do I get around this? How do I potty train him in a day? How do I

00:54:19.240 not have him throw a tantrum when I buckle him in his car seat? How do I, all these things. And I found

00:54:23.680 myself completely hamstrung from being able to answer them because the truth of it is there is no perfect

00:54:29.160 solution to every one of those things. It's going to vary by child. It's going to vary by

00:54:33.140 your mood that you're in, what time you woke up that day. That's the thing is we are called to

00:54:39.100 rely. I really think that parenting is one of the best built-in sanctifying tools that exists right

00:54:45.220 after marriage. I think about that every day. Yeah. It is when we are told to take up our cross daily

00:54:49.480 and follow Jesus. There are so many ways we could duck that if we don't have built-in little

00:54:56.080 neighbors that we're supposed to be loving. Yeah. Well, or big neighbors, like I said,

00:55:00.080 I have big hulking boys that are way taller than I am now. And what an opportunity if we choose to

00:55:05.620 look at it that way, to be sanctified daily and to take up our crosses without ever leaving our

00:55:09.360 houses. If we can view it that way, well, then this heart is actually shaping me. This heart is

00:55:17.100 growing me. Without it, I won't be more mature. Without it, I won't have stronger muscles to flex,

00:55:21.740 either literally or metaphorically. Well, then by all means, I'm going to go through it by Christ's

00:55:27.620 strength rather than try to circumvent it. So you're absolutely right. Galatians 6, 9,

00:55:32.660 don't grow weary of doing good for in the proper time, which the Lord is the one that determines

00:55:36.260 that, not us. The proper time for us is like, we've done this for three weeks. Can we see some

00:55:40.800 fruit, please? Yeah. That's not usually how that works. For in the proper time, you'll reap a harvest.

00:55:44.940 And then the last four words, if you, no, more than that, if you do not give up.

00:55:51.300 Yes. I love the idea of front-loading the hard and not bypassing the necessary difficulty of

00:55:58.960 like whatever it is. Like yelling is easier. Giving your kids an iPad at all times when they're

00:56:04.580 like distracted or when they're disruptive is easier. Not praying with your kids, not teaching

00:56:11.560 your kids. All of that is easier. Like, you know, making mac and cheese for dinner every

00:56:16.480 night is easier. And I say that as someone, we went through a season of like mac and cheese every

00:56:21.080 night. So I, again, I'm not saying this. Way too many graham crackers. Yes. I am not saying this

00:56:25.380 from a place of perfection at all. I am saying this as someone who is in that, like the thick of that

00:56:31.420 and learning that. And we're trying by the grace of God to do our best in that. And yeah,

00:56:37.540 there are just times where I'm like, oh, we chose the easy moment. It's going to be harder later.

00:56:42.960 We chose the hard thing. It's going to be easier later. And we just see that manifest itself

00:56:48.000 so often in our parenting. Well, and I want to encourage you and every other mom that's,

00:56:53.220 that's going forward still, especially because your oldest is five. Right. So you have so much to

00:56:58.500 look forward to. And that is how I'm going to put it. You have so many good things to look forward to,

00:57:02.640 not just you wait or you should be afraid of, but just, just you wait until you get to do this

00:57:07.440 thing with them. Like, cause there's so much goodness. And I've actually seen this narrative

00:57:11.920 lately where moms that have been moms for a while are kind of like, it doesn't get easier.

00:57:17.000 And I don't know anyone in my circle that I trust that would agree with that.

00:57:22.340 There are aspects to the struggle that morph into more crucial struggles. Like when your five-year-old

00:57:32.680 is freaking out over sensory issues, it's hard, you might completely miss going to church. You might

00:57:38.540 miss an appointment. You might feel like you're losing your mind in that moment, but it's not

00:57:43.260 going to end in pregnancy. It's not going to end in divorce. It's not going to end in, you know,

00:57:48.300 there are things with your teen and adult children that are going to be much more life affecting

00:57:53.080 than that tantrum. And so walking that fine line of encouraging young moms, like this actually 0.99

00:57:59.740 probably isn't quite as life altering and devastating as it feels in this exact moment.

00:58:07.600 This too shall pass. And that is a phrase for a reason, but also certain aspects of this are going

00:58:14.280 to go away and you won't be. I mean, I have people that ask me how I managed to clip my 10 children's

00:58:19.720 fingernails. This is a common question. And I'm like watching my 18 year old walk by and I'm like,

00:58:26.160 yeah, I'm not clipping his fingernails. But we get stuck in a mindset of this that we're in,

00:58:31.680 this struggle we're in right now will always be the same struggle. The struggle will morph and

00:58:35.680 change. There will be seasons of ease and seasons of like extreme challenge. We've been promised that

00:58:41.100 Jesus says in this world, you will have trouble, but be of good cheer for I've overcome it. The world,

00:58:46.020 not just the trouble. And so holding that tension of this is not the worst thing I will ever have to

00:58:53.280 deal with. But also there's so many good things. And these practical things as I'm faithful in them

00:58:57.460 actually will become easier is important. Yeah, that's so good. Small people, small problems,

00:59:03.020 big people, big problems. That's what someone told me before. And it's important for me to remember

00:59:07.700 that. Well, Abby, thank you so much. People can get your book. M is for Mama. Heart is not the same

00:59:12.280 thing as bad. Anywhere they get books, they can also follow you on Instagram. Super fun follow.

00:59:17.560 And M is for Mama.net as well. They can find you there. And gosh, everyone in my audience just

00:59:24.700 loves you so much. You did amazing at Share the Arrows. Everyone was so encouraged. So

00:59:28.800 just thank you for what you do. I'm super grateful and very encouraged by you.

00:59:33.100 Oh, that's so kind. Thanks for having me on, Allie.

00:59:38.900 Okay, before we head out, I want to tell you about the cover up. This is a documentary series

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01:00:04.540 surprised at all that Anthony Fauci is deeply embedded in corruption. He actually watched as Dick Cheney

01:00:11.480 empowered Fauci and the NIA ID with the authority and funding for biodefense that used to only be

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Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - February 20, 2025

Ep 1144 ｜ The Theological Errors of Gentle Parenting ｜ Guest： Abbie Halberstadt

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