Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1156 ｜ Steven Lawson Breaks Silence, Dylan Mulvaney’s Book Flops & Gym Clothes Rant

00:00:01.000 Preacher Stephen Lawson has broken his silence after it was revealed several months ago that

00:00:06.640 he had engaged in an inappropriate relationship with a woman that was not his wife.

00:00:13.220 We are going to take a look at his statement today and give my response to it.

00:00:18.980 Also, Dylan Mulvaney is out with a new book, and he was on The View, man-on-man.

00:00:24.060 We got some comments on that.

00:00:25.440 And last but not least, I am putting my rant on gym clothes in a permanent spot on this podcast.

00:00:33.000 We've got lots on this episode of Relatable, which is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers.

00:00:38.220 Go to GoodRanchers.com, code Allie.

00:00:40.240 That's GoodRanchers.com, code Allie.

00:00:51.700 Hey, guys.

00:00:52.540 Welcome to Relatable.

00:00:53.600 Happy Thursday.

00:00:54.420 Hope everyone is having a wonderful week so far.

00:00:57.820 All right.

00:00:58.160 We've got so much to get into today.

00:00:59.960 Just a couple things before we get started, though.

00:01:03.740 Share the Arrows.

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00:01:09.040 The fall seems forever away, but it's really not.

00:01:12.100 It's just a few months.

00:01:13.460 And so you need to go ahead and get your tickets.

00:01:15.220 Go to ShareTheArrows.com.

00:01:17.800 Bring your women's small group. 1.00

00:01:19.600 Bring your women in your Sunday school class, your sisters, your friends, your mother-in-law,

00:01:24.320 your sister-in-law.

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00:01:27.440 I am so pumped, so excited for it.

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00:02:03.040 Thank you so much to all of you who have been listening now for...

00:02:08.340 It is March of 2025.

00:02:10.520 It is now seven years.

00:02:12.700 Seven years ago this month, we started Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey.

00:02:17.480 Oh my goodness.

00:02:18.700 And it started as just one time a week.

00:02:21.160 Then I got a call.

00:02:22.060 Will you go to two times a week?

00:02:23.320 Then I got a call.

00:02:24.040 Will you go to three?

00:02:24.780 And then a few months later, it was four times a week.

00:02:27.480 And here we are giving you news, politics, theology, culture from a Christian conservative

00:02:34.640 perspective with two-ish interviews a week, pop culture, and what's going on in D.C. and

00:02:42.800 sometimes the world as clearly as we possibly can.

00:02:46.780 And some of you have literally been around now for seven years, and I'm just so grateful.

00:02:53.060 And for all of you who are new too, and you really have become like friends and family

00:02:58.080 every time I get to meet you in the wild, you let me know that you're praying for me,

00:03:03.260 praying for the team, praying for the show.

00:03:05.080 And that really does mean so much.

00:03:06.980 I don't take that for granted.

00:03:08.660 I always say I have the best and the smartest, most thoughtful audience in the world that's

00:03:14.300 never been more evident to me than at Share the Arrows last year, but it's just really

00:03:18.500 true.

00:03:19.060 Everyone should want an audience like the Relatable Audience.

00:03:21.540 You guys are salt of the earth people, and I love you so much, and I'm just so thankful

00:03:26.260 to God for all of you.

00:03:28.020 All right, let us talk about Steve Lawson's statement that he finally put out yesterday

00:03:34.360 after, I think, five months of silence.

00:03:37.980 So let me go back a little bit and give you a refresher.

00:03:41.100 Maybe you don't even know what I'm talking about.

00:03:42.940 Most of you, however, probably do.

00:03:44.640 Steve Lawson was the teaching preacher, not the shepherding pastor, not the main pastor,

00:03:51.320 but the itinerant preacher at Trinity Bible Church in Dallas.

00:03:56.460 This is a pretty new church, and he focuses on, through not just his preaching, but also

00:04:03.940 in his various ministries, his teaching at John MacArthur's Master's Seminary Expository

00:04:10.460 Preaching, an amazing expository preacher.

00:04:13.140 I have read some of his books about the Reformers.

00:04:16.240 I have listened to many of his sermons.

00:04:18.760 I have met him before, just a very dynamic, charismatic person who seemed to take the Word

00:04:25.760 of God very seriously.

00:04:27.760 Honestly, I've listened to a lot of preachers.

00:04:29.920 I don't know many preachers who have the same expository passion and skill as Stephen Lawson.

00:04:37.380 So when I heard several months ago through a public statement made by Trinity Bible Church,

00:04:43.640 the church where he was preaching, that he had been caught, I'm using my own terms here,

00:04:50.480 but in an inappropriate relationship with a younger woman, I was so shocked and devastated.

00:04:57.980 This is one of the last people I ever would have guessed would have been found in some kind

00:05:05.020 of impropriety.

00:05:07.360 And we still don't know the details of that relationship.

00:05:10.820 That was a big sticking point for a lot of people who were fans, followers of Stephen Lawson,

00:05:17.300 or who attended his Bible study, or who attended his church, is that we didn't really know.

00:05:22.980 It was really like a lot of sleuthing of people to try to figure out what went on.

00:05:28.200 And we did find out this was a younger woman who he knew through Master's Seminary, whose

00:05:35.920 parents had been a part of John MacArthur's Grace Community Church for a long time.

00:05:41.400 We don't know the full extent of the relationship.

00:05:45.380 We don't know the nature of the relationship.

00:05:48.440 It sounds to me, if I am to read between the lines, that it was not a sexual relationship,

00:05:56.200 not a full-on affair, but that it was more of an emotional bond, way too familiar, communicating

00:06:04.700 way too much.

00:06:06.060 That's what it seems to me.

00:06:08.460 Although even the congregants in Trinity Bible Church have really kind of, for the most part,

00:06:13.540 been left in the dark, there are congregants at Trinity Bible who feel that the elders there

00:06:20.420 handled this in a satisfactory way.

00:06:24.060 They still attend there.

00:06:25.300 They're thankful for the strength, the resolve, what they see as the transparency of their elders.

00:06:31.720 And I know many people who have left Trinity Bible Church because they did not like how it

00:06:36.360 was handled.

00:06:37.100 And maybe they were attending just for Stephen Lawson and his expository preaching.

00:06:41.940 And then when he left, they didn't want to stay anymore.

00:06:46.700 But it's been really disappointing.

00:06:49.520 And I think a lot of people have been very frustrated by the silence that Stephen Lawson

00:06:56.140 has prolonged.

00:06:58.820 I understand not wanting to stoke gossip or stoke speculation by giving little breadcrumbs.

00:07:07.580 And as we will read in his statement, he says he hasn't said anything because he wanted

00:07:12.060 to make sure that his repentance was real.

00:07:17.080 However, I understand how basically being ghosted by your spiritual mentor, a lot of people felt

00:07:25.520 like he was a spiritual mentor for them, was really hurtful, much more hurtful than if

00:07:31.600 he had come out right away and at least given some clarity, some transparency, and then said,

00:07:38.580 hey, I'm going to be taking a step back from all public communication.

00:07:43.100 And here's what I'm going to be focusing on.

00:07:46.100 Pray not only for me that Christ would help me walk in repentance and sanctification, but

00:07:53.180 please pray for my family, please pray for my wife, and really kind of shifted the focus to

00:08:00.000 the people that he hurt, the people that he harmed.

00:08:04.180 But just the lack of communication there, I think, was extremely devastating for a lot of people,

00:08:10.780 understandably so.

00:08:12.460 He resigned from all of his duties at the time at One Passion Ministries.

00:08:16.700 They put out their own statement.

00:08:18.220 And also another thing about the statements that we noted, and it turned out to be correct

00:08:24.760 at the time, one thing that you noticed in these statements was that they did not say

00:08:31.660 that at that point he had repented.

00:08:34.400 It was actually that Stephen Lawson had been found out in his sin, and that at that point,

00:08:40.580 it was not clear that he had actually acknowledged and turned away from his sin.

00:08:46.500 And there was some very strange, wishy-washy language in those statements that made people

00:08:50.960 wonder, hang on, is this over yet?

00:08:55.660 Some people got mad at me for reading in between the lines, but that ended up being confirmed

00:09:00.880 later.

00:09:02.880 And so he released this silence, or he released this statement, rather, breaking his silence

00:09:09.560 on March 12th.

00:09:11.580 He said this.

00:09:12.360 He said, it is with a shattered heart that I write this letter.

00:09:16.120 I have sinned grievously against the Lord, against my wife, against my family, and against

00:09:20.440 countless numbers of you by having a sinful relationship with a woman, not my wife.

00:09:26.640 Again, we don't know what kind of sinful relationship, but a sinful relationship.

00:09:31.580 I am deeply broken that I have betrayed and deceived my wife, devastated my children, brought

00:09:36.960 shame to the name of Christ, reproach upon his church, and harm to many ministries.

00:09:41.720 You may wonder why I have been silent and largely invisible since the news of my sin became

00:09:46.500 known.

00:09:47.200 He said he needed time to search his own soul and determine that my repentance is real.

00:09:51.920 He says he alone is responsible for my sin.

00:09:55.000 Reading in between the lines for his sin.

00:09:58.560 Reading in between the lines there, I think he's trying to say, don't blame this woman.

00:10:02.100 This is something I'm taking responsibility for.

00:10:05.420 I have confessed my sin to the Lord, to my wife, to my family, have repented of it.

00:10:09.580 So he's very clear about that.

00:10:12.160 He said he's very sad over his sin.

00:10:14.600 He says that his sin carries enormous consequences.

00:10:17.880 He says many have looked to him for spiritual guidance, and he has failed these people.

00:10:22.880 He says, I beg for your forgiveness.

00:10:25.980 And some people out there might say, well, it's not fair that all of these people are demanding

00:10:30.460 these statements or demanding transparency for him.

00:10:33.100 It's not his fault that they look to him as a spiritual mentor.

00:10:37.140 Well, he purposely placed himself in that position of being a mentor to thousands and thousands,

00:10:42.820 not just people he knew personally, but people that he reached directly online, digitally.

00:10:49.740 And that didn't happen by happenstance.

00:10:51.540 He put himself in that leadership, mentorship, teaching position.

00:10:56.260 He talks about what he's doing every week.

00:11:00.720 He says he's dealt with sin issues that have been painfully exposed in my heart.

00:11:04.100 I've submitted myself in weekly accountability to two pastors and the elders of a local congregation

00:11:08.780 who have shepherded my soul.

00:11:10.820 I am also under the oversight of an accountability team who monitor my progress and give me wise

00:11:15.060 counsel on the decisions I have to make.

00:11:17.200 I'll talk about this a little bit more in a minute.

00:11:19.180 That paragraph is strange to me.

00:11:21.720 It's just strange.

00:11:22.560 If this is just my personal, subjective opinion, I don't need to hear those details.

00:11:29.580 And to me, that almost comes across as defensive.

00:11:33.900 Now, I'm willing to say maybe that's unfair.

00:11:36.880 I just think that it's, I think that is a little strange personally, just from a PR perspective.

00:11:43.900 He says, I'm growing in grace, reading and absorbing the word of God, putting it into practice,

00:11:48.780 praying and meeting with other believers.

00:11:50.220 I'm involved in the life of the church, attending and participating in prayer meetings, Sunday

00:11:54.240 school, the worship service, and taking communion weekly.

00:11:57.700 I am being fad the word in the midweek Bible study.

00:12:00.260 Please pray for my spiritual growth into Christlikeness as I follow him moment by moment during

00:12:04.580 this recovery season.

00:12:05.720 I feel the same way about this paragraph.

00:12:08.000 And maybe to me, I'm wondering, who are you answering?

00:12:12.680 Who are you speaking to when you are listing all of these weekly religious activities that

00:12:17.680 I hope and pray and believe correspond to real heart change and real humility?

00:12:23.180 I'm not doubting the sincerity there, but are these answers to questions that people have?

00:12:28.960 I mean, I've talked to a lot of people who attended his church and who looked to him for

00:12:32.680 guidance, and none of them have been like, well, I just, I wonder if he's taking communion

00:12:37.160 every week.

00:12:38.280 Like, I'm just concerned.

00:12:40.140 Is he meeting with one or two pastors?

00:12:42.940 What's going on there?

00:12:44.880 Really, like, the bigger concern is, what happened?

00:12:49.580 How long were they being duped?

00:12:52.440 Was he being sincere when he was preaching?

00:12:55.640 How is his wife?

00:12:57.680 How are their children?

00:12:59.340 Now, you might say, he doesn't have the responsibility to answer those questions.

00:13:03.520 That's true, maybe.

00:13:06.000 That's to some extent.

00:13:07.680 To some extent, I would say some of those questions don't have to be answered.

00:13:11.420 And he's trying to avoid speculation.

00:13:13.620 And look, I have a lot of grace because these statements can just be so hard.

00:13:17.500 They can be really, really difficult to say the right thing.

00:13:21.220 But listing all of the repentance-centered activities that are happening every week, again, to me,

00:13:28.080 just comes across as defensive.

00:13:30.200 And I'm not sure that that's what people need to hear in this moment.

00:13:35.420 He says, I'm grateful for the unmerited grace of God and the gospel to extend his full forgiveness

00:13:40.600 to me.

00:13:41.100 I ask for your forgiveness as well.

00:13:45.020 He says, please pray for me, the Lord's mercy and grace as I seek to make right the deeply

00:13:52.640 wrong sins I've committed against my wife and family, and that in his time and way, he

00:13:57.760 will bring about redemption and restoration in our marriage for his glory.

00:14:01.580 We, of course, don't know exactly what that means, if there has actually been any physical

00:14:05.540 separation there.

00:14:06.640 I just feel so deeply for his wife.

00:14:09.400 That is who I'm thinking of here.

00:14:12.600 And I also, I'm not sure if it would be appropriate, but there is another party here.

00:14:17.140 I mean, there is a young woman who, yes, sinned. 0.97

00:14:19.460 I mean, she's an adult woman.

00:14:20.620 She had agency, and she, as far as we know, willingly entered into this sinful relationship,

00:14:27.520 whatever that entailed.

00:14:28.780 So I'm not saying that she was a victim as far as I know she wasn't a victim here.

00:14:33.000 But gosh, we should also be praying for her.

00:14:35.040 I'm not sure if it's appropriate for him to say that in a statement.

00:14:37.900 He didn't say that.

00:14:38.900 That's what I'm kind of debating.

00:14:41.580 Should he have said something like that or not?

00:14:43.820 But whether or not he should have said that, the truth is we should be praying for her.

00:14:49.440 And gosh, please pray for his family.

00:14:52.200 So I've kind of got more of a response to this, the biblical response, and then my PR

00:14:57.420 opinion in just a second.

00:14:59.340 But let me pause.

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00:16:31.800 Okay, I have no reason not to believe the genuineness, the honesty of Stephen Lawson as just a fellow

00:16:46.540 believer, but also as someone who I want the best for him.

00:16:51.260 I want the best for his family.

00:16:52.680 I want the best for Trinity Bible Church.

00:16:54.700 I want the best for everyone who has ever read him, listened to him, been mentored by him.

00:17:00.600 I want the best for the global church, for Christianity in general.

00:17:05.440 I hope and pray that this is true repentance, that all of this—I don't really care about—I

00:17:12.980 mean, I do care to an extent, but I'm not as interested in all of the weekly activities

00:17:18.960 that he's engaging in as much as I am just seeing the true heartbreak contriteness that

00:17:25.080 should come with real repentance.

00:17:26.800 And I hope and pray that that is really there.

00:17:29.760 And when I was reading this and I was thinking through my thoughts, the first verse that

00:17:33.640 came to mind was 1 Corinthians 13, 7.

00:17:36.680 Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

00:17:44.320 Really, it's not my responsibility or anyone's responsibility to try to—because I don't have

00:17:53.660 a personal, you know, friendship with Stephen Lawson, like, I don't have to go into all of

00:18:01.140 the different nooks and crannies of this and try to pick it apart and doubt whether or not

00:18:08.720 he is honest.

00:18:09.540 I'm going to take it at face value and hope and believe the best.

00:18:15.360 Most commands, many of the commands that we are given in the New Testament to take care

00:18:22.240 of the least of these, my brothers, for example, to ensure that we are caring for the household

00:18:29.460 of God and to look after the saints in the work of ministry are actually commands to take

00:18:36.700 care of our fellow believers.

00:18:38.900 It is very clear throughout the New Testament that that's really our first obligation.

00:18:44.780 That is where our loyalty lies, first to the church, first to fellow Christians.

00:18:52.200 And so, yes, of course, we are called to love and to care for others and to care for the

00:18:57.940 poor.

00:18:58.460 But the love that we are called to in 1 Corinthians 13, we should feel, I think, most deeply for

00:19:04.760 our brothers and sisters in Christ.

00:19:06.760 And so, that's one guidance I'm giving to myself and that I would give to you as well.

00:19:12.840 There's also Ephesians 4, 32.

00:19:14.820 I love Ephesians 4.

00:19:16.120 I love the whole book of Ephesians, as you guys know.

00:19:18.860 Be kind to one another, tenderhearted.

00:19:21.840 There's so much callousness today.

00:19:23.320 Tenderhearted, forgiving one another as God in Christ forgave you.

00:19:27.760 So, not just forgiving one another as it feels good.

00:19:30.220 Gosh, forgiving one another as God in Christ forgave you.

00:19:34.700 Think about how much we were forgiven when Christ died on the cross for our sins.

00:19:40.380 All of the ugliest stuff in our heart and mind and lives was completely just obliterated.

00:19:46.320 Our slate was wiped clean because of the perfect sacrifice of Christ.

00:19:50.960 That is the kind of forgiveness we are supposed to extend to other people.

00:19:54.820 So, no matter how deeply Stephen Lawson hurt you, we are actually called to a very powerful

00:20:01.100 countercultural forgiveness through the strength of Christ.

00:20:05.500 Luke 15, 7.

00:20:07.380 Just so I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over

00:20:13.280 99 righteous persons who need no repentance.

00:20:17.800 And so, if we are to take this at face value and believe and hope that this repentance is

00:20:23.140 real and only he and only God and hopefully those in his life really truly know that that's

00:20:29.680 just the nature of it, no matter who it is, no matter who we're talking about, then heaven

00:20:34.360 is rejoicing over that.

00:20:36.320 And God is celebrating and God is so gracious and so good and he is quick to bring us back

00:20:44.160 and to work out all things for our good and for his glory.

00:20:50.420 And so, let us continue to pray for that.

00:20:52.380 Pray for his family.

00:20:54.300 Pray for his wife.

00:20:55.320 Pray for his marriage, which is an earthly reflection of the marriage between Christ and

00:20:59.260 the church that has so much significance.

00:21:03.620 Here's my PR opinion.

00:21:05.260 Take it for what it's worth.

00:21:08.340 And my PR opinion does not discount his honesty and sincerity.

00:21:12.680 I am just talking about what is effective messaging.

00:21:16.300 What is going to appropriately impact as many people as possible?

00:21:23.580 There's no perfect statement.

00:21:25.400 There are always going to be people that pick apart what you say and that are going to completely

00:21:30.540 discount part of what you said.

00:21:32.160 Or they're going to say that you said something that you didn't say.

00:21:35.500 Or they're going to say that you said the opposite of what you actually said.

00:21:38.200 As someone who talks a lot in the public, that happens.

00:21:42.660 You get people who are like, you never talk about this or you said this.

00:21:45.840 And it's just literally completely untrue.

00:21:48.360 And so no statement, no person is ever going to be perfect or a perfect communicator.

00:21:55.440 What I would advise someone in this position, very simple, very straightforward language,

00:22:04.000 very transparent language.

00:22:05.440 That's a little bit tricky because you want to give transparency that shows honesty without

00:22:10.960 inviting more speculation and more gossip and potentially targeting this young woman. 1.00

00:22:17.860 I do appreciate he made no excuses.

00:22:20.220 He did not say, oh, it was a really hard time in my life or I didn't know how to handle this.

00:22:26.240 I do wish he would have said, which maybe you could argue he did in so many words, I was 0.83

00:22:33.260 a total hypocrite and I was preaching about purity and I was preaching about Christlikeness 0.78

00:22:39.020 when I was not acting like that myself. 0.99

00:22:41.500 And I don't blame the people that question my ministry and question my integrity.

00:22:45.940 But I want you to know that everything that ever came out of my mouth that was directly

00:22:53.520 from the word of God is true and that I am not trustworthy, but Jesus Christ is trustworthy,

00:22:59.180 that he's the same yesterday, today, and forever.

00:23:02.320 Look, I fell into this sin and here's what happened.

00:23:07.060 I personally would like to see a little bit more clarity and just forthrightness and what

00:23:12.500 actually happened, the timeline of what happened, because you've got a lot of people torturing

00:23:17.600 themselves thinking, okay, was it during this sermon?

00:23:20.460 What about the time that I followed this Bible study and he said this?

00:23:23.060 Or the time he counseled me in this way, was this really going on then?

00:23:27.440 Like, I think something really clear about what happened.

00:23:31.080 And again, I think there should have been more of a focus on Christ and who he is, his stability,

00:23:38.920 his trustworthiness, his unchanging nature, and also a focus more on calls for prayer for

00:23:47.580 his wife and for his family.

00:23:50.880 My personal opinion, I also would like to see something in this statement that says,

00:23:58.240 I know that I am disqualified from ministry here on out and you're not going to see me behind

00:24:06.020 the pulpit again, and you're not going to see me leading one passion ministries for the

00:24:10.700 rest of my life.

00:24:12.180 I am going to lead a private and quiet life with my wife, my kids, and my grandchildren.

00:24:19.300 Some of you might disagree with that, but I do think that this is a disqualifying act

00:24:26.380 from public ministry.

00:24:29.000 It doesn't mean that he's not a Christian.

00:24:30.280 It doesn't mean that God's not going to use his gifts to edify the church in some way,

00:24:36.500 but the public platform is part of what led to this compromise.

00:24:41.880 And I would have just liked to see that.

00:24:44.280 And also an assurance again to people who are looking to him for public guidance to say,

00:24:50.860 I'm going to go quiet again and you're not going to hear from me.

00:24:55.180 And maybe ever again, because public ministry is just no longer in the cards in this last

00:25:01.200 chapter of my life, maybe not in the cards, however you would word that in a biblical way.

00:25:07.380 And we didn't see that.

00:25:08.780 So I think it's interesting.

00:25:10.080 Again, these statements, just like the statements of the churches or that the church and the

00:25:15.020 ministries released at the time that it happened, they are very carefully curated for people

00:25:20.200 that say, well, you're thinking too hard about this statement.

00:25:24.660 You're looking too much at what was said, what was not said.

00:25:28.500 These statements are labored over for days and days and days, maybe months before they

00:25:34.580 are released.

00:25:35.480 All kinds of people are consulted, lawyers, publicists, fellow Christians, all of that.

00:25:42.280 And that's not a bad thing.

00:25:43.700 They should be.

00:25:44.800 But what is said and what is not said is extremely intentional.

00:25:48.480 Again, just to reiterate, that is not me discrediting his repentance or saying that he's not telling

00:25:55.780 the truth or that he's not sincere.

00:25:57.920 I hope and believe that he is.

00:25:59.560 And we should continue to pray for that and pray for those also who were heartbroken by

00:26:04.300 this and who have had a crisis of faith because of this failure.

00:26:08.720 Pray that Jesus would draw them close, would draw them near, would restore to them the joy

00:26:14.320 of their salvation.

00:26:16.740 And they would remember Hebrews 13, 8, that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today,

00:26:20.960 and forever.

00:26:21.920 No matter who fails you, who betrays you, Jesus never, ever will.

00:26:26.740 And just praise God for that.

00:26:29.080 All right.

00:26:29.680 We got to move on.

00:26:30.960 And you know what?

00:26:31.660 We don't even have to go into an ad.

00:26:34.120 And sometimes that helps us shift gears a little bit.

00:26:36.660 And we just don't have anything to shift gears.

00:26:40.580 I wish I could play some elevator music right now to shift into talking about Dylan Mulvaney.

00:26:46.100 But OK, let's just take a breath.

00:26:48.200 OK.

00:26:50.300 Dylan Mulvaney.

00:26:51.480 He's got a new book out, y'all.

00:26:53.580 And there's no softer way to transition for whatever you say.

00:27:01.440 What is that?

00:27:01.900 What do you say?

00:27:02.560 Um, what?

00:27:05.360 No, no, no pun intended is what I meant to say.

00:27:09.800 Um, what?

00:27:11.860 Yeah, segue to transition.

00:27:13.800 But OK, yeah, I'm trying to collect myself here.

00:27:17.300 He's got a new book out.

00:27:19.240 And it's called Paper Doll Notes from a Late Bloomer.

00:27:22.740 I hope that this episode is included in his PR team's recap email that he receives this Friday

00:27:30.200 that Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey highlighted his, uh, highlighted his new book.

00:27:38.080 OK.

00:27:38.760 Earlier this week, trans-identifying influencer Dylan Mulvaney, with 1.5 million followers on

00:27:45.520 Instagram.

00:27:46.160 I'm guessing this is supposed to be 9.2 million and not 92 million followers on TikTok, released

00:27:53.060 a new book, the memoir, about his so-called transition, how he responded to the ensuing

00:27:59.260 media firestorm that followed his Bud Light sponsorship.

00:28:03.360 If you're new here, we do use the pronouns that correspond with someone's sex.

00:28:08.760 It's not because we're being intentionally mean.

00:28:11.720 We're not trying to be controversial.

00:28:13.300 This is something that I debated with myself maybe seven years ago, and then I came to this

00:28:19.300 epiphany that I can't out-love God, and I'm not nicer than God.

00:28:25.500 And if God says something is true, then the most loving thing I can do in any situation

00:28:31.520 is agree with him.

00:28:33.200 Those of you who have been listening for a long time have heard me say that ad nauseum.

00:28:37.740 But God says in the first chapter of the first book of the Bible that we are made in

00:28:41.960 his image, male and female, that's Genesis 1.27, that's repeated by Jesus in Matthew

00:28:46.480 19, 4 through 5, it is positively affirmed throughout Scripture.

00:28:51.120 Whether you're looking at the definition of parents, the definition of marriage, you see

00:28:55.680 the reality of the gender binary there.

00:28:58.620 And just that first verse that we mentioned, it emphasizes how important that is, that that

00:29:04.060 is us being made in God's image.

00:29:05.540 So when I call Dylan Mulvaney, he or him, that is not me being purposely disorientated.

00:29:11.960 Unrespectful or bigoted or unloving, although of course the world will interpret it like

00:29:16.660 that, and that's fine.

00:29:17.960 That's the result of toxic empathy.

00:29:20.720 And you can read about that in the trans chapter of my book.

00:29:23.540 But that is me loving God.

00:29:25.080 That is me agreeing with God.

00:29:27.040 And that is me refusing to compromise the truth in the name of a worldly superficial toxic

00:29:33.440 definition, wrong definition of love.

00:29:35.960 1 Corinthians 13.6.

00:29:38.160 We quoted the seventh verse in that chapter earlier.

00:29:41.400 The verse right before that says, love never rejoices in wrongdoing, but rejoices with the

00:29:47.480 truth.

00:29:48.000 Never rejoices in wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth.

00:29:50.740 So the love to which Christians are called is inextricably intertwined with the truth.

00:29:55.780 And only God gets to define love because 1 John 4.8, he is love.

00:30:00.380 So again, the most loving thing we can do in all situations is agree with him.

00:30:04.080 And Dylan is made in God's image.

00:30:05.480 He was made a male at the point of conception in God's image.

00:30:08.480 God did that purposely.

00:30:09.460 It wasn't an accident.

00:30:11.040 Dylan doesn't have some secret female deep inside him.

00:30:15.500 He doesn't have this identity that is mismatched with who he actually is.

00:30:20.760 And I don't even believe that he has true gender dysphoria.

00:30:24.240 I think that he was probably considered more feminine growing up in musical theater.

00:30:30.280 He was probably labeled as gay early on.

00:30:32.600 I don't know what other trauma he endured in his life and his upbringing, if any at all.

00:30:37.900 I mean, it's usually something when a grown man who was almost 30 years old declares that

00:30:42.440 he's not only a woman, but a girl.

00:30:45.940 But the truth is, is that he is a person with a soul.

00:30:50.840 And I care about that.

00:30:52.300 And I don't want to deny him the goodness of the truth that God has for him by affirming his

00:31:02.580 delusions that will ultimately destroy him, body and soul.

00:31:07.000 Okay.

00:31:07.620 And a lot of people, I guess we probably won't have time to get into it.

00:31:10.860 And I promise I'll get into the rest of this Dylan Mulvaney stuff.

00:31:13.700 But, you know, there was a whole thing on X, Tommy Lahren saying it was rude for the

00:31:18.740 congressman, congressman self to call Sarah McBride, congressman Sarah McBride, who was

00:31:26.240 a trans identifying male.

00:31:28.000 He, him, sir.

00:31:29.680 And, you know, Tommy is also pro-choice.

00:31:33.360 And she said this kind of stuff before.

00:31:35.680 I personally believe she just doesn't have a moral foundation for what she believes.

00:31:38.800 But look, if you are still at that point, if you as a conservative are still at that

00:31:43.500 point, I understand if you're new, if you're like part of the maha, you're new over here 0.99

00:31:47.100 and you're just trying to learn this stuff, like grace, patience, all of that.

00:31:50.800 But if you have been over here for a long time and you are still stuck in this idea that you

00:31:57.480 should call a man she for the sake of politeness, you are so far behind.

00:32:02.160 You do not get it.

00:32:03.220 And like praise to all of the center center right people who over the past five or so years

00:32:08.480 have graduated to reality, realizing that it's either a man and a woman or it's not.

00:32:13.860 Like you can't say men can't play in women's sports, but also call a man she.

00:32:18.560 It doesn't make sense.

00:32:19.600 It's either one or the other.

00:32:21.460 Either two plus two is four or two plus two is five.

00:32:24.260 If two plus two is four, there's no, there's, there's no good in saying that two plus two

00:32:29.240 equals five.

00:32:29.720 And there's a big cost in saying two plus two equals five because your complicity and the

00:32:34.680 whole pronoun politeness game.

00:32:36.460 You saying, oh yeah, that man is actually a woman because he looks like a woman or he 0.99

00:32:41.840 wants to be a woman.

00:32:43.220 That is the basis for allowing men in sports.

00:32:47.340 Okay.

00:32:47.660 And men in women's bathrooms. 1.00

00:32:49.380 Of course you can't say to someone, oh yeah, you're a woman.

00:32:52.900 I don't want you to punch me. 0.74

00:32:55.240 I don't want you to be mad at me, but no, you can't go into this woman's bathroom. 1.00

00:32:58.760 Well, why not?

00:32:59.960 If they are a she, then they are a woman. 1.00

00:33:01.620 And if they are a woman, why can't they go into the woman's bathroom? 1.00

00:33:03.860 But if they can't go into the woman's bathroom because they're not a woman, then they're 1.00

00:33:07.020 not a she.

00:33:07.740 We should acknowledge reality.

00:33:09.860 Denying reality has a really big cost and it's more important.

00:33:13.920 It's more important than politeness.

00:33:16.920 Okay.

00:33:18.300 Dylan Mulvaney.

00:33:19.640 You'll remember who he is because back in 2023, Bud Light partnered with him to celebrate

00:33:25.640 his year of girlhood social media campaign by sending him packs of Bud Light featuring his

00:33:30.720 face, which Mulvaney then shared to his popular social media accounts.

00:33:34.380 There was a really big response from conservatives opposed to transgender ideology calling for a

00:33:40.980 boycott of the beer brand.

00:33:44.300 And Forbes reported at the time that Bud Light lost $1.4 billion in sales in the year following

00:33:50.780 the controversy, which is great because, of course, you are the blue collar conservative

00:33:57.920 southern beer brand. 0.54

00:34:00.660 And then all of a sudden, overnight, it became super gay to drink Bud Light. 0.89

00:34:05.720 And, of course, they've leveraged different figures, different comedians to try to get back in the good

00:34:11.020 graces of conservatives.

00:34:12.960 I think they even ran a Super Bowl ad that was like conservative coded, which has probably been kind

00:34:17.820 of successful, I say hold your ground.

00:34:19.980 If you are going to, as a brand, celebrate a grown man acting like a girl, then I've got a big problem

00:34:30.900 with that.

00:34:31.700 I've got a huge problem with that.

00:34:34.000 Okay.

00:34:34.380 So here's the cover of Dylan Mulvaney's book.

00:34:37.420 And we have to stop for an ad in just a second, but I feel like I've given enough preamble.

00:34:41.520 I have to give you something about this book that we brought up a couple minutes ago.

00:34:45.740 Okay.

00:34:47.100 Paper doll.

00:34:48.500 Notes from a late bloomer.

00:34:50.280 Okay.

00:34:51.540 Very disturbing.

00:34:53.120 And then you see the inside of it.

00:34:55.880 This is like pink gingham.

00:34:57.680 Again, it's more than just feminine.

00:35:01.000 It is juvenile.

00:35:03.760 You know, it's creepy.

00:35:05.340 I just heard someone say in the room, it is creepy.

00:35:07.740 It's creepy.

00:35:09.120 Day one of being a girl, and I'm coming out for the third time in my life today.

00:35:13.500 The first time I was 14, I came out as a gay boy.

00:35:16.380 Next was age 24 as non-binary. 0.68

00:35:18.840 And now here I am at 25, finally ready to tell the world I am a trans woman.

00:35:27.940 Okay.

00:35:28.680 Conversation with my mom when I was four.

00:35:31.200 This is what he says happened.

00:35:32.760 Four-year-old me.

00:35:34.180 Mom.

00:35:34.920 Mom.

00:35:35.440 Yes, four-year-old me.

00:35:36.300 I think God made a mistake.

00:35:37.720 Mom.

00:35:38.060 What do you mean?

00:35:38.880 Four-year-old me.

00:35:39.440 I think he put a girl in a boy's body. 0.86

00:35:41.440 That didn't happen, Dylan.

00:35:43.380 It didn't happen.

00:35:44.640 That didn't happen.

00:35:46.180 Like I have, I have kids now and I have watched three-year-olds turn to four-year-olds

00:35:54.140 turn to five-year-olds.

00:35:55.900 And I, and my kids are very brilliant and very verbal.

00:36:00.020 And I know the emotional intelligence of people this age.

00:36:05.340 This is not how a four-year-old talks.

00:36:07.280 And by the way, like four-year-olds, they are smart for their age. 1.00

00:36:12.760 They can be smart for their age, but overall, really dumb, really dumb. 1.00

00:36:17.300 Can't see things long. 1.00

00:36:19.000 They don't understand complex ideas.

00:36:20.980 They don't understand consequences.

00:36:24.420 And so for a four-year-old to be able to articulate God put someone in the wrong body, this is a

00:36:29.920 left-wing fantasy that they have constructed.

00:36:32.380 There is this whole part of left-wing ideology as, again, they look at everything through

00:36:38.240 the lens of oppressor versus oppressed.

00:36:40.160 They see kids oppressed by the nuclear family, oppressed by parental authority and need to

00:36:46.340 be liberated.

00:36:47.900 And so this dualistic idea that Nancy Piercy talks about so brilliantly in Love Thy Body,

00:36:53.280 everyone read that, that you can be a different person on the inside than what you are on the

00:36:58.500 outside, and you know that deep down, and you've just got to unlock that one day through your

00:37:04.500 sexual identity, gender identity.

00:37:06.320 It is a fantasy that he is actually playing out.

00:37:10.980 And again, I will just reiterate, it is creepy.

00:37:15.040 It is weird for a grown man to say that he is a girl, okay?

00:37:21.160 Like a little girl.

00:37:22.320 He has dressed up like a six-year-old girl before.

00:37:24.840 Let me show you this picture of Dylan Mulvaney from a couple years ago, last year, dressing

00:37:31.520 up as Eloise.

00:37:33.240 Remember, Eloise is a six-year-old fictional character who lives at the plaza in New York

00:37:40.560 City, okay?

00:37:41.920 And if you know enough about trans ideology, if you've been following this show, listening

00:37:47.080 to the experts that we talk about, you know that this is a pattern of grown men suddenly

00:37:52.680 saying that they identify as the opposite sex, and then starting to dress up as adolescent

00:37:58.280 girls, as teenage girls, even sometimes younger than that, with the bows, with the skirts, with

00:38:05.820 the high socks.

00:38:06.920 It is very, very strange, okay?

00:38:10.620 It is very perverse.

00:38:12.340 And once you understand that the trans movement is not a bunch of people who have genuine struggle

00:38:19.560 with gender confusion, with gender dysphoria, that so much of it, I don't know this for a

00:38:24.640 fact about Dylan, but so much of it is actually led by pornography, by the worst kind of pornography,

00:38:31.200 then you start to realize, okay, this pronoun politeness stuff, it's completely bunk.

00:38:34.920 I'm not going to affirm that dark, demonic underbelly of the trans movement. 1.00

00:38:41.880 And your sympathy changes.

00:38:43.800 It's not that you don't have sympathy for them, but you have sympathy for them as people

00:38:46.800 who are lost, who are possessed in some way, not as people who genuinely are stuck in the

00:38:52.540 wrong body.

00:38:53.540 And that's a really important distinction to make.

00:38:56.460 Okay, we've got more about this in just a second.

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00:40:08.880 All right.

00:40:09.940 So he's going around now promoting this book.

00:40:14.140 He did this whole Days of Girl thing, Days of Girlhood thing on Twitter, or not on Twitter,

00:40:19.440 on TikTok and on Instagram.

00:40:22.160 Let me tell you something also about Dylan Mulvaney that is just freaky, and I've said

00:40:28.680 this before.

00:40:30.060 So we have been talking about him, and I've talked about him in very compassionate terms

00:40:38.420 too, like pleading to him to see that God did not make a mistake, that he never makes

00:40:44.620 mistakes, and that he made your body exactly what it was supposed to be.

00:40:48.600 He's gone through this, like, facial feminization surgery, all of this stuff.

00:40:52.920 Estrogen, which is not good for the male body to have too much estrogen.

00:40:56.500 It's not good for the female body to have too much testosterone. 1.00

00:40:58.740 So many issues that come from that.

00:41:00.980 And we discovered one day, this was, I don't know, a couple years ago, Brie?

00:41:06.260 I don't know, a year and a half ago?

00:41:08.160 Yeah, I think it was 2023 or beginning of 2023, maybe.

00:41:11.880 Okay.

00:41:13.120 And, like, Brie, I don't even think you had been on the show at that point yet.

00:41:18.040 Nope.

00:41:19.160 And definitely the other girl who worked on the team at the time to do social media had

00:41:23.720 never been on the show, had never, we had never publicly said her name.

00:41:28.080 I might have said the name Brie before, but you wouldn't have known last name.

00:41:33.600 And again, this social media girl, like, y'all probably don't even, y'all don't know the

00:41:38.260 name of the person who does my social media.

00:41:40.360 I don't talk about her.

00:41:41.220 It was the same way then too.

00:41:42.360 So, and we all found one day when we were trying to look at Dylan Mulvaney's Instagram

00:41:48.580 that we had all been blocked.

00:41:51.420 Our show page, my page, Brie's page, our social media girls page.

00:41:56.680 Again, they were not public facing.

00:41:58.540 You can't find out on the Blaze TV website.

00:42:01.000 There is no public information that says, that said Brie's first and last name, our social

00:42:05.780 media girls first and last name and associated with relatable. 0.79

00:42:08.340 And yet somehow he found a way to block all of us.

00:42:14.460 That to me tells me something that to me tells me, I think this is just my suspicion that

00:42:20.380 he had contacts or his people have contacts at Meta, at Instagram, that they were able

00:42:26.420 to figure out everyone who had access to our show page and that they, because you, you

00:42:33.780 can't, again, you can't find that publicly and he wouldn't have been able to find that.

00:42:38.340 Nope.

00:42:38.600 But they found everyone who has access to our show page and basically blocked us for

00:42:45.120 him.

00:42:45.720 Yeah.

00:42:46.160 Because there were other people on our team who were not logged into our show page who

00:42:49.900 were not blocked by Dylan.

00:42:51.720 So that has to be what happened.

00:42:53.280 Yeah.

00:42:53.740 Crazy.

00:42:54.280 Which is crazy.

00:42:55.340 And so anytime that he talks about, you know, being oppressed or whatever, he's got power.

00:43:00.280 He's got, he's got sway.

00:43:01.740 He's got influence.

00:43:02.700 You can ask any person how difficult it is, especially as a conservative, to even talk

00:43:07.400 to someone at these social media companies.

00:43:10.700 I almost said countries, but, and like get an answer, get help.

00:43:14.900 Like it is very tough.

00:43:17.140 So yeah, he doesn't, he doesn't like us, which is just so shocking.

00:43:21.620 Anyway.

00:43:22.060 So he went on The View to talk about his new book, which is crazy.

00:43:28.340 Like he's got such a big platform.

00:43:30.400 His, his book right now is number like 800 something in the top 100 books.

00:43:37.080 And it just came out, which I have a much smaller platform than Dylan Mulvaney.

00:43:42.760 And praise God.

00:43:43.580 At one point, my book was in the top 100 books on Amazon.

00:43:47.760 Praise God for that.

00:43:48.540 I'm, and I'm not even saying that to like brag, I'm just saying like, this is true of

00:43:52.420 a lot of new authors with any kind of platform or like new books.

00:43:55.500 They hit the top 100, but his has only gone down and he went on The View and has done all

00:44:00.220 of this national stuff and it has 19 reviews and 2.5 stars.

00:44:05.420 I just find that very surprising.

00:44:07.460 I really do.

00:44:08.200 Cause he's got a lot of people that love him.

00:44:11.060 Anyway.

00:44:11.540 So he went on The View and he started talking about, you know, girls sports and things like

00:44:19.620 that.

00:44:20.580 And they started talking about trans identifying athletes and Whoopi Goldberg brings up California

00:44:27.340 Governor Gavin Newsom's recent comments, acknowledging that it is unfair for trans

00:44:31.140 identifying men to compete in women's sports.

00:44:34.500 Yeah.

00:44:34.600 We haven't even talked about Gavin Newsom's podcast with Charlie Kirk.

00:44:37.660 Oh my goodness.

00:44:38.440 Charlie did great, but I have so many thoughts on that.

00:44:41.260 Anyway, then she asks Dylan what he thinks about this comment.

00:44:45.920 And so here's that exchange thought too.

00:44:48.080 The last time I played a sport, I was six years old and I was on a soccer team, but I

00:44:53.040 assigned myself as the nurse.

00:44:54.840 So I sat with the band-aids.

00:44:56.680 And so in the words of Wicked, I am not that girl.

00:44:59.860 Part of the problem that the trans community is facing, and it's the same problem that women 0.97

00:45:07.240 face is if you don't know anything about our bodies, you don't know how it works.

00:45:12.400 So when you come in and you say, oh, you know, these men, these are men, you know, competing

00:45:20.360 against women. 0.76

00:45:21.940 You're assuming that the women are weak and just can't do anything except for you. 1.00

00:45:27.640 Have you seen female athletes? 1.00

00:45:31.460 They know what they're doing.

00:45:34.180 What?

00:45:34.940 Okay.

00:45:35.240 First of all, if there is anyone who knows nothing about the female body, it is Dylan

00:45:41.300 Mulvaney. 0.98

00:45:42.120 First, he was a gay man. 0.87

00:45:43.580 And then he said he's someone who is the opposite sex.

00:45:46.420 He knows nothing negative about the female body.

00:45:50.360 Remember that one time when he said he walks around with tampons in case, like, there is

00:45:55.240 someone around him that asks for a tampon?

00:45:57.800 Again, never happened.

00:45:59.000 Weird fantasy.

00:46:00.660 He knows nothing about the female body.

00:46:02.780 I guess Whoopi Goldberg doesn't either.

00:46:05.540 Because to say that, oh, the reason why we have sex-segregated athletics is because we

00:46:12.580 don't believe women are strong. 1.00

00:46:14.500 I've had people say that to me.

00:46:15.680 Oh, this is your inner misogynist that you don't believe that men can compete against women.

00:46:20.140 Have you talked to a female athlete? 0.96

00:46:22.880 Do you remember when the Olympic U.S. women's soccer team, they played a Dallas-based under-15s

00:46:32.120 boys team?

00:46:33.300 Do you remember that from a few years ago?

00:46:35.080 Do you know who won?

00:46:36.400 The 15-year-old boys.

00:46:38.560 Okay.

00:46:39.020 The 14 and 15-year-old boys beat the Olympic women's soccer team in a scrimmage a few years

00:46:45.720 ago.

00:46:46.900 Let's think about that.

00:46:48.140 Okay.

00:46:48.520 Here's my favorite study.

00:46:50.140 To quote from, this is a Duke University study from 2017.

00:46:54.520 Okay.

00:46:54.800 Duke University is not conservative.

00:46:57.500 If you know sport, you know this beyond a reasonable doubt.

00:47:00.160 There is an average 10 to 12% performance gap between elite males and elite females.

00:47:05.580 The gap is smaller between elite females and non-elite males, but it's still insurmountable,

00:47:13.160 and that's ultimately what matters.

00:47:14.560 Did I say that correctly first?

00:47:15.740 There's a performance gap between elite males and elite females. 0.99

00:47:17.960 I might have said females twice. 0.92

00:47:20.480 I don't remember.

00:47:21.060 But just in the single year 2017.

00:47:23.680 This is amazing!

00:47:25.060 Just in the single year 2017, Olympic world and U.S. champion Tori Bowie's 100 meters lifetime

00:47:31.620 best of 10.78 was beat 15,000 times by men and boys.

00:47:39.780 Okay?

00:47:40.000 So her very best.

00:47:41.420 This is the most elite runner probably in the world.

00:47:46.720 She was beaten 15,000 times, not just from men, but also from non-elite boys.

00:47:52.840 We are talking about high school boys.

00:47:55.000 There are high school boys that can beat the fastest female runner in the world.

00:48:01.660 The same is true of Olympic world and U.S. champion Allison Felix's 400 meters lifetime of 49.26.

00:48:08.740 Just in a single year.

00:48:10.220 Just in one year, okay?

00:48:12.580 2017, men and boys around the world outperformed her more than 15,000 times.

00:48:18.500 They note that this is a result not based on mere identity, not based on better resources,

00:48:25.400 not better training, not superior discipline.

00:48:28.000 It is because these boys have an androgynized body. 0.95

00:48:32.720 Something that happens during puberty.

00:48:36.640 The results make clear that sex determines win share.

00:48:41.720 Female athletes are not competitive for the win against males. 0.79

00:48:46.080 The lowest end of the male range of testosterone is three times higher than the highest end of the female range.

00:48:55.060 And you know what?

00:48:55.920 That is not changed.

00:48:57.240 Post-puberty, that's not changed by pumping a guy with estrogen.

00:49:02.780 The damage has been done.

00:49:05.060 His heart is bigger.

00:49:06.480 He has more aerobic and anaerobic capacity in his lungs.

00:49:10.400 His bones are bigger.

00:49:12.240 His muscle mass is bigger.

00:49:14.300 His entire body was made in a different way.

00:49:18.320 Every single cell of his body, except for some of his sperm cells, are XY. 0.99

00:49:24.320 Okay?

00:49:24.900 That changes everything.

00:49:28.660 Particularly after puberty.

00:49:30.720 These biological differences, Duke University says, explain the male and female secondary sex characteristics 0.79

00:49:35.980 which developed during puberty have lifelong effects, including the most important for success in sport.

00:49:41.900 Different strength, speed, and endurance.

00:49:44.100 There is no other physical, cultural, or socioeconomic trait as important as testes.

00:49:49.000 Okay? 0.99

00:49:49.540 You got balls. 0.98

00:49:50.800 You're going to win. 0.95

00:49:51.460 The number of men and boys beating the world's best women in the 100 and 400 meters is far from the exception.

00:50:01.520 It is the rule.

00:50:04.440 Okay?

00:50:05.200 Come on.

00:50:06.020 Like, this is not rocket science.

00:50:09.520 I mean, science and statistics are basically just catching up to what we already know.

00:50:14.820 And I want to end this segment with this story that I came across on Acts this morning.

00:50:20.320 Just a reminder to you of why anytime you feel, gosh, this is just, it's too harsh.

00:50:25.360 It's too mean.

00:50:26.060 It's too controversial.

00:50:27.000 We shouldn't be talking about this.

00:50:28.200 We shouldn't hurt people's feelings.

00:50:29.320 We should put people's feelings first.

00:50:30.820 I want to remind you that not only are you trying to outnice God, which is self-idolatry, which is a serious sin,

00:50:38.440 but you are also complicit in a movement that is ruining people's lives.

00:50:44.660 And that is the difference between toxic empathy and love.

00:50:47.400 Toxic empathy simply affirms someone's feelings because you don't want to make them feel bad.

00:50:54.400 It denies reality and morality.

00:50:56.860 It refuses to look at the people on the other side of the moral equation.

00:51:02.220 Remember, Christians are called to the truth in love.

00:51:05.760 That is the difficult and sometimes tense dichotomy that Christians are called to.

00:51:11.620 And the love that we are called to is not always seen as nice or easy or acceptable by the world.

00:51:18.720 And that's okay because friendship with God is enmity with the world.

00:51:22.920 And we should be enemies of this.

00:51:26.920 This is Wesley Yang.

00:51:28.880 I like following him on Acts.

00:51:30.540 He talks a lot about detransition and just the evil of this movement. 0.99

00:51:35.400 And so he went to a conference recently where he told this young person's story.

00:51:39.620 Maybe we can get Forrest Smith on the show.

00:51:41.880 But he said this.

00:51:42.860 The story is just so heartbreaking.

00:51:44.580 Let yourself feel it deeply.

00:51:47.080 At Detransition Awareness Day, Forrest Smith describes running away to Portland after dropping out of college

00:51:52.560 and availing himself of a network of homeless youth services that allowed him to reinvent himself as a transgender woman

00:51:59.580 and participate in street political militancy. 0.92

00:52:03.960 During COVID, he was rushed through for an emergency orchiectomy, that is the removal of testicles,

00:52:11.000 despite closure of the hospital for elective procedures with the aid of a referral specialist whose job was to manipulate billing codes for gender procedures,

00:52:20.620 received a letter from a psychiatrist testifying that testicle removal was urgent and life-saving.

00:52:26.200 All of these people should be in prison.

00:52:28.840 Eight days later, the surgery was done. 0.98

00:52:31.660 When he then, after he got his testicles removed,

00:52:34.960 When he began to question his transition, 0.86

00:52:39.620 no therapist would speak to him, 0.95

00:52:42.060 and insurance that paid to remove his testicles while he was homeless and drug addicted 0.79

00:52:47.180 would not cover removal of his breast implants. 0.98

00:52:53.440 That is tragic.

00:52:55.200 This young man will never be the same.

00:52:59.100 Yes, God can redeem him.

00:53:01.360 He can use his testimony for good.

00:53:04.320 But gosh, how many detransitioners have we talked to? 1.00

00:53:07.200 Especially women who will never have their voice back. 1.00

00:53:10.000 They will never have their reproductive abilities back. 0.99

00:53:12.340 They will never be able to breastfeed because they made this horror decision when they were young

00:53:17.100 that there, of course, is some responsibility on them for.

00:53:20.660 But they were affirmed by these adults who were too scared to tell them the truth

00:53:24.720 or maybe who really believed that simply affirming people's delusions was the most loving thing.

00:53:30.000 It's not loving.

00:53:30.920 Whether someone regrets it or not later, it's still not loving.

00:53:34.740 This is ruining people's lives.

00:53:36.540 And if Christians are not the one to stand up for it, 0.85

00:53:39.680 as Christians have stood up against evil for the past 2,000 years,

00:53:43.700 and we pass the buck to people who don't even know Christ,

00:53:48.480 who don't even believe that we are made in God's image,

00:53:51.300 the movement against this kind of wickedness will fail.

00:53:53.840 It has to be led by Christians who are uncompromising in the truth, 1.00

00:53:58.840 not despite our love for neighbor, but because of our love for neighbor.

00:54:03.360 And if you want more about this movement, about what is happening to people's bodies,

00:54:07.200 children's bodies, read Toxic Empathy. 0.99

00:54:09.500 It's a short read, but it is really important for Christians to understand what is going on here.

00:54:15.860 And so that is why I'm not going to – I'm just not persuaded by your pronoun politeness.

00:54:22.880 I'm not persuaded by your moral extortion and your emotional manipulation

00:54:26.580 because lives and bodies are on the line, and I care about that.

00:54:31.620 All right.

00:54:31.880 Let me pause, tell you about our last sponsor for the day.

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00:55:43.800 All right.

00:55:44.920 This is a very wide-ranging episode, y'all.

00:55:48.220 If you stick around for long enough, you'll get basically everything.

00:55:51.800 So we're going to talk about gym clothes because I posted about this on the fly on my Instagram story,

00:55:58.640 and I just got such a response from so many of you and so many people asking me to talk about this on the show.

00:56:05.960 Some of you are going to love this and be yelling amen, and some of you are going to be like,

00:56:11.400 this is mean, this is wrong, you shouldn't talk about this.

00:56:14.360 This is all my personal opinion.

00:56:17.180 And now some of it is biblical, as we'll get into, but I mean, some of it is just my take.

00:56:23.240 So you can take it or leave it.

00:56:25.120 This is Allie Beth Stuckey in the wild.

00:56:26.960 Okay, so I joined a gym for the first time in like 12 years.

00:56:33.160 I have done other forms of workouts, every form of workout.

00:56:37.140 I've done CrossFit and cycling and Orange Theory and barre and Pilates and long-distance running and all that kind of stuff.

00:56:45.000 And I really like everything, really, in a different way.

00:56:48.700 But I decided to join just a regular old gym because I like weightlifting, and I had no idea really what to expect.

00:56:59.320 It's been a pretty good experience, except for the fact that the girls wear no clothes. 0.88

00:57:04.320 Okay?

00:57:04.920 They wear no clothes.

00:57:06.940 And I am not.

00:57:08.340 Obviously, I believe in modesty first as a heart posture, but it should also manifest itself in what we wear.

00:57:15.320 However, I would not call myself a legalist when it comes to this.

00:57:19.280 The Bible doesn't say how long our skirts have to be or if we can wear tank tops or not wear tank tops.

00:57:26.380 I'm not one of those people.

00:57:28.420 Modesty is one of those things that it's kind of you know it when you see it.

00:57:33.120 Different things look different on different people.

00:57:35.840 It's obvious when someone is wearing something for the purpose of provoking lust.

00:57:42.820 Some things are just objectively immodest.

00:57:45.180 Other things might be based on opinion.

00:57:47.940 So anyway, I'm not what you would call a stickler on every single part of clothing.

00:57:53.940 You don't have to be a stickler.

00:57:55.600 You would have to be blind to not see what I am talking about in gyms.

00:57:59.780 Okay?

00:58:00.040 We're not just talking about crop tops.

00:58:02.200 We're not just talking about leggings.

00:58:04.600 The things that women are wearing these days are insane. 1.00

00:58:09.740 I am talking about bras.

00:58:12.300 Okay?

00:58:12.960 Bras that might as well just be like your regular brasier, not even a sports bra.

00:58:19.340 These people are wearing, these women are wearing publicly with the leggings that are not typical 0.94

00:58:25.500 leggings but actually scrunch in the butt crack so it looks like you have a wedgie. 0.76

00:58:31.300 Now, I remember when having a wedgie used to be a form of bullying.

00:58:39.500 Okay?

00:58:40.000 Like, you know, the old 80s sitcoms where the nerd would get a wedgie and he would get hung

00:58:47.120 on the locker or something.

00:58:48.260 Now, people are paying to be wedgied.

00:58:52.000 This stuff is not functional.

00:58:55.000 It can't really be sanitary.

00:58:57.000 You're sweating all over the equipment. 0.95

00:58:59.640 You've got your, like, translucent leggings stuck all the way up your butt. 0.93

00:59:05.160 And let me also just say it's not cute for the most part. 0.98

00:59:10.060 Now, I know I'm speaking as a woman.

00:59:13.180 I say for the most part because obviously there are people who are professional athletes and

00:59:19.180 they're athletic and they look very strong in this stuff.

00:59:22.620 That's really kind of beside the point when we're talking about decency and appropriateness

00:59:27.520 and public situations.

00:59:29.780 But I just want to say, and I say this as someone who would also be talking about myself.

00:59:33.960 I am not saying this from the position of thinking I have perfect physique by any means.

00:59:38.300 I just want to be the wake-up call for you because TikTok has deluded you.

00:59:42.480 Most people don't look good in these outfits.

00:59:44.360 Okay?

00:59:44.680 They don't.

00:59:45.720 Like, there is no one that I've seen that would not look better in a shirt.

00:59:49.520 Okay?

00:59:50.900 And I think that TikTok has really deluded us into thinking that these, like, light-colored,

00:59:58.680 wedgified leggings and these skimpy sports bras make us look more athletic.

01:00:05.840 It's not true.

01:00:06.480 It makes you look less athletic.

01:00:09.060 And here's the other thing.

01:00:10.440 I know from experience how easy it is to put on a shirt.

01:00:14.360 It's so easy to just put a shirt or a tank top over your sports bra.

01:00:20.420 It takes no effort at all that it is so obvious that you are making the choice that you are

01:00:26.320 making with your clothing because you are thirsty.

01:00:31.100 Okay?

01:00:31.740 That's got to be it.

01:00:33.020 That's the only thing.

01:00:33.800 And I know that we hear, oh, you know, these women, they're not dressing for the male gaze. 0.81

01:00:38.260 They're not dressing for men.

01:00:39.520 They're dressing for other women. 1.00

01:00:40.940 They're dressing for each other.

01:00:42.200 Well, let me just say on behalf of the homegirls, we don't like it. 0.72

01:00:46.060 Girl, you can get dressed. 0.94

01:00:47.740 If you're dressing for us, you can put a shirt on.

01:00:51.720 Just put a shirt on.

01:00:52.500 That's all I'm asking.

01:00:53.680 And it's really also a matter of fairness.

01:00:56.300 Because if men have to wear a shirt, I've never seen a man at this gym without a shirt

01:01:01.340 on, ever.

01:01:02.780 If men have to wear shirts, then women should have to wear shirts, too. 0.99

01:01:06.820 It doesn't seem like that difficult of a rule to enforce.

01:01:10.500 Just say no midriffs. 1.00

01:01:11.620 Everyone has to wear a shirt.

01:01:13.320 You can't come in and just underwear.

01:01:16.440 I don't think gyms should have to, like, measure, you know, how long are your shorts?

01:01:20.100 I'm not saying that, although that'd be kind of cool if they did.

01:01:22.800 I wouldn't be against that.

01:01:25.020 It's, you know, private gym.

01:01:26.560 You can do what you want to do.

01:01:27.980 But just have a basic rule.

01:01:29.380 You can't wear underwear out in the main area.

01:01:32.720 You need to wear a tank top.

01:01:35.060 And I've gotten these responses saying, well, you know, it gets hot in there.

01:01:38.740 No, it doesn't.

01:01:39.160 It doesn't get that hot.

01:01:39.840 It doesn't get that hot.

01:01:40.960 And you're working out.

01:01:42.060 You're supposed to sweat.

01:01:43.340 And, oh, you know, it's more functional.

01:01:45.300 No, it is not.

01:01:46.540 No, it is not.

01:01:47.220 Because you are thinking about falling out of your clothes when you're doing your bent

01:01:51.300 over row.

01:01:52.560 Okay?

01:01:52.880 It's not more comfortable.

01:01:54.700 It's actually, like, I would think very uncomfortable.

01:01:58.340 And there is no form of working out that I've ever done that I've thought, you know what?

01:02:02.380 Like, this would be way better if I could take my shirt off right now.

01:02:04.820 I've never thought that.

01:02:06.900 Like, tank top, t-shirt.

01:02:08.600 T-shirt sometimes can be restrictive.

01:02:12.100 Tank top, you're good to go.

01:02:13.420 So, another part about this is that you will see this, and I think it's influencer culture

01:02:19.600 on Instagram that has really caused this.

01:02:21.980 And we can debate all different kinds of things, if women should be wearing leggings at all, 0.99

01:02:26.020 and all that kind of stuff.

01:02:27.360 Open to that conversation.

01:02:29.900 But influencer culture has made women think that they need to dress like this when they 1.00

01:02:35.440 work out.

01:02:37.020 And you'll see dialogue, discussion among these influencers, like, well, this man was

01:02:46.160 creepily looking at me.

01:02:47.280 Like, she'll have her phone set up, and she's, you know, wearing this outfit, and she sees

01:02:53.100 a guy in the background who doesn't realize he's being recorded checking her out.

01:02:56.640 And then she'll have this whole meltdown afterwards. 1.00

01:02:59.860 And she's like, I can't believe you're looking at me.

01:03:02.500 I can't believe that he was checking me out.

01:03:05.160 I can't believe it.

01:03:06.320 I was just doing a squat in a thong. 0.99

01:03:09.860 What a pervert. 0.99

01:03:11.660 How would he, how, how dare he look at me? 0.98

01:03:15.240 Girl, look, men are certainly responsible for their actions.

01:03:20.020 Men are responsible for their thoughts. 1.00

01:03:21.860 Jesus said, if your eye is causing you to lust, pluck it out.

01:03:25.220 Okay, that's how serious he was about lust.

01:03:27.760 And he puts the responsibility on the luster.

01:03:31.660 However, you are also responsible for how you dress.

01:03:34.860 And there are a lot of men out there who do not follow the advice of Christ.

01:03:39.500 Okay?

01:03:40.020 And so you can't really be surprised when they're checking you out.

01:03:43.600 Now, I'm not saying that that justifies any kind of disrespect or any kind of harassment

01:03:47.880 or anything like that.

01:03:49.060 So don't hear me victim blaming or whatever.

01:03:52.040 But let's not remove all agency from women. 0.64

01:03:55.860 You can work out without looking like a hoe. 1.00

01:03:57.960 You can.

01:03:58.820 And I am respecting your body more than you're respecting your body when I say that.

01:04:03.560 Because you are worth more than self-objectification.

01:04:07.260 Okay?

01:04:08.220 And you should respect yourself enough not to be thirsty when you're working out.

01:04:13.500 Just get dressed.

01:04:14.380 That's all I'm asking.

01:04:15.920 Just get dressed.

01:04:17.140 Just don't wear underwear in public.

01:04:20.440 And I wish that this wasn't controversial to say.

01:04:23.740 But apparently it is.

01:04:25.760 And I'm sure that I will get a wide range of YouTube comments on there.

01:04:31.540 But I just wanted to share my thoughts in a permanent place.

01:04:35.500 And so many of you ask.

01:04:36.840 Does Brie have any thoughts?

01:04:38.240 Do you have any thoughts on this topic?

01:04:41.440 No, I agree.

01:04:42.460 You can work out without looking like a hoe. 1.00

01:04:44.880 Yep.

01:04:45.160 However, like I sometimes go to like an infrared sauna gym.

01:04:50.900 And they have individual rooms.

01:04:52.780 And so sometimes I see people in there working out by themselves in like sports bras.

01:04:57.760 And I don't have an issue with that.

01:04:59.060 Yeah.

01:04:59.660 I do think that's different.

01:05:01.240 I mean, you're by yourself.

01:05:02.300 You're trying to be as private as possible.

01:05:04.140 Yes.

01:05:04.580 Yeah.

01:05:05.160 Don't take all your clothes off, please.

01:05:06.740 No.

01:05:07.580 I've never seen anyone without any clothes, which is good.

01:05:10.880 But no, I agree.

01:05:12.540 It's an issue.

01:05:14.420 It's distracting.

01:05:15.340 It's got to be super distracting for dudes, too.

01:05:18.460 Yes.

01:05:18.680 I mean, I just don't you want to just focus.

01:05:21.780 And then we don't have time to get into all of this.

01:05:24.120 We skipped this story.

01:05:25.200 But there is this like gym owner in the UK who wanted to start her own gym that was just for women. 0.68

01:05:30.820 And she is being absolutely lambasted by these trans activists because she was like, yeah, you got to actually be a woman like your biology has to be a woman. 0.66

01:05:38.560 There's all different like reasons for this.

01:05:41.620 And she is absolutely getting so much pushback.

01:05:43.680 I hope she stands strong.

01:05:45.520 Like, I think that that is a good solution.

01:05:47.980 But still, even if we're male, female split up, I don't want to see.

01:05:51.920 I don't want to see all that.

01:05:53.760 And for anyone who says mind your business, I would love to mind my business.

01:05:57.420 Don't shimmy by the squat rack if you want us to all mind our business.

01:06:02.320 OK, we know you want to be seen.

01:06:04.400 I don't want to see that.

01:06:05.800 All right.

01:06:06.100 Let's end the week on that note.

01:06:07.560 And we will be back here on Monday.

01:06:09.060 We'll be back here on Monday.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - March 13, 2025

Ep 1156 ｜ Steven Lawson Breaks Silence, Dylan Mulvaney’s Book Flops & Gym Clothes Rant

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