Ep 1157 ｜ What’s God’s Will for Me？ Here’s How You Know ｜ Guest： Costi Hinn
Episode Stats
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Summary
Pastor Kosti Hinn is a pastor from Arizona. He's been on the show before talking about his last book, God, Greed, and the Prosperity Gospel, and now he has a new book called Walking in God's Will. It's about demystifying God's plan and purpose for your life.
Transcript
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How do we discern not just between right and wrong, but between good and best?
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He's been on the show before talking about his last book, God, Greed, and the Prosperity
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Gospel, and now he has a new book called Walking in God's Will.
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It's about demystifying God's plan and purpose for your life.
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Here's what I encourage you to do if you're not driving.
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Get out your notebook, get a pen, get out your notes app on your phone.
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This is all stuff you are going to want to apply to your life.
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You're going to want to add this book to your library.
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I got so much out of this, and I'm so excited for you to hear this discussion.
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It's brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers.
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Kosti, thanks so much for taking the time to join us.
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And tell me about the church that you've planted in the past few years.
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And so when you were just out hanging out with all of us, that was our, actually, I didn't
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tell you this, but our three-year anniversary that weekend.
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And that area is full of people that are hungry for the truth and they want to grow.
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And then a lot of young families have moved into the Phoenix area, cities like Gilbert
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So a lot of people watching and listening, they already know your story, but there are some
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Last time we talked, it was about your book, God, Greed, and the Prosperity Gospel, right?
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And so we talked a lot about your testimony, then your upbringing, but give us a summary.
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So grew up in sort of the center of what's called the Prosperity Gospel and the Word of
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You just had a friend of ours on yesterday, Melissa, who deals with new thought and a
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So I was thick in the center of that, mainly because I grew up in it.
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My uncle, his name is Benny Hinn, and a lot of people even around here know who he is and
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just his legacy of 50-something years of a lot of faith healing.
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I worked for him, and over time—and I believed it, bought the thing, took it hook, line, and
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sinker—but over time I would ask questions just in my inner mind, thinking, that's not
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Or I saw things behind the scenes that were really fake or really staged, and I thought,
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that doesn't seem like we're supposed to do it.
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And when I would bring it up privately, a lot of times my family members would say, there
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are always going to be things that aren't necessarily true or right, but our job is to
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Or if people maybe like you or others would say things about us or criticize or like Dateline
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NBC, Inside Edition, CBC in Canada, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, would do hit pieces
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on my uncle, my father, and a number of things going on with the ministries that they were
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involved with, we would say we're being persecuted, like Paul and like Jesus.
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And so I grew up with this chip on my shoulder, and Baptists and non-denominational Christians
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or people like you who will speak truth on things, you are all dead Christians, you don't
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have the Spirit, you don't have the power and the anointing like us, and the Lord's
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not going to bless you, and you're just jealous of our special spiritual status.
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Well, I end up playing baseball at Dallas Baptist University.
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I had already worked for my uncle, and so I roll up on the DBU campus in a black H2,
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Hummer, and had like a $10,000 Breitling watch, and my Baptist coach, who literally is like
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one of the best hitting coaches in college baseball, one of the best coaches, period,
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but one of the best hitting coaches in all baseball anywhere, is sitting there, and at
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the time he drives this white Camry, super mellow guy, like biblical, simple, and he's
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talking about God's sovereignty, and he's saying like, guys, don't worry about scouts and
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Proverbs 21.1 says, the heart of the king is like channels of water in the
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You just control what you can control and play hard and trust the Lord.
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And I always used to make fun of him in my head, like this Baptist dude or this white
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Camry, like I know how to control God and get him to do what I want.
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But that seed of God being sovereign and a biblical understanding of the gospel was planted.
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And so years later, I was a pastor at a church that wasn't very rooted in biblical teaching
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It was just sort of a popularity contest, very like seeker-driven, get him in as long
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And one day, the team there, the pastor, a number of us, we went through this season
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where like, we should probably preach the Bible more, which is really shocking.
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So we start preaching through books of the Bible and we get to the gospel of John and
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I'm studying John 5 and the healing that takes place at Bethesda.
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And I grabbed this commentary that someone had given to me.
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And I start studying and it just wrecks my world that Jesus heals one man out of a multitude.
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So there's no offering and special seed of faith.
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There's no white jacket getting waved, no music, no buildup, no shenanigans at all.
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I would see people limp across the stage and my uncle or a faith healer would say, oh,
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I know they're limping, but your legs would be limping and stiff too.
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If you had been crippled for 30 years in a wheelchair, let's give God a hand of praise.
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And then the last big kicker for me in that point of my study was the Pharisee said, who
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And John records that the man didn't know who Jesus was because Jesus had slipped away.
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And so that messed me up because I went, how did you get your healing if you didn't know
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Because you have to have enough faith to get healed.
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If you don't get healed, if you're like Johnny Erickson Tata and you're still quadriplegic,
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if you're broke, if you're infertile, if your kids are prodigal, you just don't have
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Oh, Allie, you must not be giving enough money to the church.
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And I see that and I'm like, how did he have enough faith?
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And then he complained that he didn't get to the pool.
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So I grabbed this commentary and it's by a pastor.
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I didn't really know him at the time named John MacArthur.
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And in this section, he goes off about the sovereignty of Christ in healing the man,
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not because he had enough faith, not because he's special, not because he said the right
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He actually complained and didn't know Jesus, but Jesus healed him as a sovereign healer
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who loves and initiates, like with salvation, when we're dead in sin.
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And I started crying, lost it, and everything came flooding back from Coach Hiefner talking
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about sovereignty and how God will do what he does.
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And I surrendered my life to Christ in that moment, said, I'm going to preach the true
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And I started studying the Bible and basically saying, what did I believe?
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Do you still have a relationship with your Uncle Benny?
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My family is a very tight-knit Middle Eastern cultured family where no matter what, you don't
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So I've described the way I grew up as a hybrid between the royal family and the mafia.
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And we flew on Gulfstream jets and lived just the high life, the highest life.
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And the mafia because the loyalty is very enforced.
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We got death threats and all sorts of things way back then.
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And over time, some family members have had the courage to pull away, and others kind
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of live in the middle of like, you know, one family member called me one time and was
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like, just know that I'm saying in the background, go, Kosti, go.
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But I can't say anything because I don't want trouble.
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And then the reason that we started for the gospel with like media and podcasting is because
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And they get gaslit, and they're in hiding, or they have questions, and they have nowhere
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And I'm thankful God helped me because I ended up with a commentary randomly.
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But I know there's a lot of people out there who have questions.
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So it started with, let's talk about the gospel.
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And now it's led to God's will, healing, the Holy Spirit.
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So I preach the whole Bible and want to help people grow in the Lord.
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Benny Hinn said something about repenting from some of the things that he had done in
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Did he repent of some of the false teachings that he had propagated for a long time?
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And one thing that's happened over the years, it's happened since the 90s.
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And I did a bunch of research on this afterwards as well.
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And then other things I realized there were wise people watching too, is he would repent
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Like in the 90s, he said, when he said that God was going to burn all homosexuals in America
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He said Jesus was going to physically show up in Africa.
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He settled, and he would apologize later because he would just get raked over the coals by a
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And then again, when he repented the first time, the big one that hit everywhere, my aunt
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sadly had filed for divorce, and he was losing a lot of donors and a lot of headway.
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And so he ends up repenting, kind of going back, they get remarried.
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I think there were a lot of people putting pressure.
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It was right after my first book, God, Greed, and the Prosperity Gospel.
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And I was having a lot of conversations behind the scenes with some of his inner circle who
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could talk to him because he wouldn't talk to me, and saying, like, why don't you just
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And then a few months later, he had this public repentance.
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And he said, I'm sick of it, or he said, the Holy Spirit is sick of it.
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Like, without being too cheeky, just going, well, I'm glad the Holy Spirit, who is God,
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They get a flood of donors, a lot of momentum back.
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And I remember calling a family member and saying, what's going on?
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Because I'll fly there, I'll show up, I'll drive to his front door.
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What, I'll be louder for his repentance than I ever was about his false teaching.
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And the family member in Arabic said, just shway, shway.
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And they said, he's going through a lot of fear right now.
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And his exact words were, I'm scared to meet the Lord.
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The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.
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Now just take the next step and repent of your sin.
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And then even just recently kind of cycled back.
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So when we look at the Bible and what true repentance is, 2 Corinthians chapter 7 is one
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that I think every Christian, even people who have been hurt by someone or abused or
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harmed or betrayed, and they go, how do I know if they're really sorry?
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You go to 2 Corinthians chapter 7, and Paul uses all of these descriptive adjectives to
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describe the way the Corinthians were sorry, real sorry.
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In other words, they're so mad about their sin, they hate it now.
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And they're like, whatever it takes, I want to make this right.
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It's not, hey, I'm so sorry you got your feelings hurt, Allie.
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And it's a play for donors and for traction because his ministry is dying and his life
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is sort of just continuing to go in the same direction.
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But I'll say this to close in that he's breathing.
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And my hope is he'll just lay it all out there before the end.
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And a hallmark of that movement, I'm sure of Benny Hinn's ministry, but Word of Faith,
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Prosperity, Gospel, is claims to hear directly from God, especially those who might call themselves
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Like the NAR, New Apostolic Reformation Movement.
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There are some within that movement that call themselves apostles, claim to hear directly
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But a lot of the charismatic language is that that is how you know the will of God.
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They might say, you know, well, Jesus said, my sheep know my voice.
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And they take that to mean all Christians need to be hearing audibly from God, or maybe through
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dreams, maybe through emotions, feelings, manifestations, different things like that.
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You wrote a book about demystifying God's plan.
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And I love that word because especially I think in the Reformed crowd, because we don't
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take on that charismatic understanding of the revelation of God's will, it can feel mystifying.
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I believe strongly that it all starts with the Word of God.
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If you, Colossians 3.16, saturate, let the Word of God dwell within you richly, everything
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that comes out of that is going to be informed and directed by God's Word.
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Lord, often people will now ask me questions like, okay, so Kosti, I know, like, I get it.
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And, or I really felt like God spoke to my heart.
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And I think a lot of people, I would be careful just to blanket statement, like, oh, what
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I think a lot of people just don't think about the language they're using, and we could lobby
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for a language change instead of saying, well, I feel like God's telling me, well, why don't
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Or instead of saying, God spoke to my heart, just say, I was meditating on this verse this
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morning, and a thought came to mind, and I just have the strongest urge and desire now
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Or I was praying, and I thought of this individual, and it was such a strong feeling of conviction
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Because you hear with your ears, you feel with your emotions, you think with your mind.
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We don't need to say, I feel like God spoke to me.
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In the Bible, when God spoke, you weren't like, I feel like Yahweh might have just showed up.
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And so if you go to the Word of God, you'll have a lot of conviction about things.
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And 1 Corinthians 2 talks about the mind of Christ.
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If you're filling up your heart, your mind, with the Word of Christ, you now have a mind
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that's infiltrated in a good way by the Word of Christ, which means your actions are going
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So of course you're going to think about people in a certain way.
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Of course you're going to be praying, and someone will come to mind.
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And of course you're going to have strong convictions about things, because you're reading God's
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So we tend to mystify it for a couple of reasons.
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Number one, we're trying to prop ourself up and make it look like we've got a real spiritual
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We just need to admit that's pride, and humbly come to people and not say, hey, God told me.
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No, just say, yeah, I was reading the Word, and here's the conviction.
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We want to have a definitive plan in a way that we know that this is true, and so we psych
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I remember time and time again to get what I wanted out of whether it's parents or to convince
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authorities, anyone in my life, that what I needed to do is what they should approve.
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And so it's the ultimate gag order, or filibuster moment, or hostage takeover, when you just
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And in that, I think there is a lot of pride where we go, I don't care what you say.
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So we go to God's Word to hear from Him, and our thoughts, emotions, and actions are going
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When it comes to the discernment that's required in figuring out not just right from wrong,
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because the Bible does graciously, pretty clearly speak on what is sin and what is good.
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But sometimes our decisions are between good and best, where it's not obvious that something
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Say you're trying to pick between two colleges, two jobs, something.
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One is not overtly simple or obviously in the bad direction, but you want to do what best glorifies God.
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A lot of people are crippled with anxiety over those decisions.
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When we're asking God for wisdom in those things, what does it feel like,
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or what does it look like to have wisdom to go a certain direction?
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Okay, I'll share personally from my own life briefly.
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When we planted the church in Arizona, it started with a move to Arizona to serve at a church
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for a couple of years, and they wanted to plant churches and so to be planted there,
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which means moving from Orange County, California.
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And I remember in the process, my wife kept saying, well, Christine, you know,
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you guys were just out, but Christine's like, Costi, are you sure?
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Like every time we talked, she's like, are you sure, babe, you're moving me to Phoenix, Arizona,
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The reason I was confident was not because of some mystified pie in the sky vision,
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not some inner cockiness like a dude, like, no, I know.
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No, I had by that time refined a process that I would walk through, and I had learned it
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And I now, in the book, I call it the fundamentals for every fork in the road.
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And I call it the seven Ps for no regret decisions.
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And I had gone through all of these, and I thought, yeah, it is absolutely the right decision.
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Like an architect, like a builder, like a GC, a general contractor, we're going to lay
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We're not just going to run into it and go, yeah, we'll figure it out.
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It's the ultimate, not prosperity gospel, but it is the ultimate ask in faith and you'll
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James 1.5 says that we can ask for wisdom with faith and God will give it.
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And it says, actually, let the one who doubts not expect anything from God.
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It's as though God is saying, look, don't you dare doubt.
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You should believe that I'm the God that will pour out wisdom.
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So come to me and believe in who I am and what I can give.
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Guide the direction and providentially open doors and make it clear.
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Now, let's say it's still, they still kind of are both sitting there.
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Um, there's a third P and it's have we sought wise counsel with prudence.
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It's the ability to rationalize, slow down, and think through things without emotion or
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Proverbs says, I always tell this to my kids when they go to school every day.
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And then there's another one, and it's, uh, what are our priorities?
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Too many people move places and take jobs and they think about the money first.
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Biblically, Hebrews 13, 17 speaks about those who oversee and care for our souls.
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So if you're out on a, you know, walk in the plank spiritually, but you've got a huge
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Don't just buy a home because it's gorgeous and you're like, oh, this will be the best
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Well, where's a church nearby that you can grow with?
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And you're now an hour and 10 minutes detached from people, but you're like, oh, but look
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Which one will be most advantageous in that way?
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How will this help you achieve your eternal purpose?
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Bobby Bowden, the famous Florida State coach, was asked once, what's your legacy?
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I asked the question, did I fulfill God's purpose for my life on earth?
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And that's a man who, with all of his earthly accolades, was thinking, did I achieve the
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And in all of those priorities, eternal, what you're doing here, every recording, every
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book you write, every effort, every time you push a button, that's just, I'm like, okay,
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Allie Bestucki, sister, you want to be controversial this week?
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You talk about things that I'm like, no, you're actually going to lose followers.
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You're deciding to pick something that's eternal.
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Another quick one, has God given us permission?
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I had a guy recently say, Pastor, you think it's sin if I want to move to Nashville, Tennessee?
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I said, why do you want to move to Nashville, Tennessee?
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He said, I just want a couple acres, I want grass, I want a chicken, or I want chickens
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And I said, no, it's only sin if you don't invite me to come hang out.
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And I said, let's talk through the four priorities.
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And he was like, oh, I just, and he grew up in kind of a cult-like church environment
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where the pastor would hold it over everyone's head.
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And so if someone says, this school will not derail me spiritually, but it will affect
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my future and help me get a better job, or it's got a better medical program, it's got
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And so there's a couple others, but that will help people, I think.
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Because even, I mean, as someone who has also written a couple books, whenever an interviewer
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asks me to list like five things I listed in the book, I always have a moment of panic.
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I'm like, can I remember the things that I came up with?
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I don't think you listed all seven, but we did get permission.
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We want to be thinking about our marriages, our kids, our families, our homes, our future.
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But also, I've told people before, maybe it is wise to take that job for two years.
00:31:04.940
Like I have a friend who became a, she was from our church, traveling nurse, and it was
00:31:12.400
She was single, and she said, this will actually be helpful down the road.
00:31:17.120
You've had seasons where, think about this, moms choose to leave the workforce, sacrifice
00:31:23.320
that extra salary, or do things a certain way, to do what?
00:31:34.500
But for now, I'm staying home and we'll live on one income.
00:31:41.340
And if you'll allow me to lay this out for folks, subjective and objective peace.
00:31:46.540
We don't just say, Allie Beth, I don't care what you say, I feel peace about this.
00:31:52.360
We're back to the manipulative, God told me type of thing.
00:31:58.100
But there's an objective peace that comes when you walk through a biblical process and you've
00:32:03.380
got people in your life who are wise counselors.
00:32:06.080
Now you can say, if I get a cancer diagnosis in this place, if a child goes prodigal, if I go
00:32:15.680
through a tough time, if the market crashes, whatever, I don't need to second guess and
00:32:20.000
say, Well, if we would have chosen California, or if we wouldn't have stayed in California,
00:32:24.440
or if I would have chosen Texas, if you would have chose Florida, if we should have, could
00:32:28.580
have, would have ourselves into anxiety and we get crippled with fear and doubt.
00:32:33.080
Now the next time we go to make a decision, the devil's holding that over our head.
00:32:37.020
Well, maybe this wouldn't have happened if you wouldn't have this.
00:32:39.760
When you've been through a process, you can say, Whether like a Moses in Midian or Egypt,
00:32:44.720
whether like a Joshua staring at Jericho, whether like our Lord Jesus himself, enduring suffering
00:32:53.980
Like Paul, when you're sitting in prison with Silas in Philippi, and you're like, Hey,
00:32:57.860
and like, well, God's really up there going, Man, I didn't see that one coming.
00:33:05.500
And they burst the doors off the prison and Lydia gets saved and the jailer gets in
00:33:12.240
You can know you're in God's will no matter what.
00:33:17.480
You've considered all the perspectives you should.
00:33:25.900
There are times where a husband is being a dominator and he's just saying, I'm just doing
00:33:30.920
this and we're going to do this and we're all, and this is what I, I'm the head of this
00:33:40.220
I'm not saying that it's not the right decision.
00:33:42.340
If someone feels passionate and they're like, No, this is true.
00:33:49.600
And the Holy Spirit is causing some conflict so that you can visit those issues before moving
00:33:57.400
There's a decision in which a wife says, Well, I want to do this.
00:34:08.380
Or perhaps a couple together is being super materialistic.
00:34:11.660
And all of a sudden, though, there's conflict in different places or one spouse is being
00:34:17.200
If we don't have subjective peace in our relationships, the ones that matter, those wise counselors
00:34:24.740
are saying, Kosti or Mark or Allie Beth, you should slow down.
00:34:34.820
No, maybe that person is sent from the Lord to slow you down for the right reasons.
00:34:39.820
And so I speak about the kind of peace that will flood your relationships.
00:34:45.520
My wife, yes, there was some trepidation of like, It's surreal.
00:34:53.260
But in the end, we laughed our way down the freeway.
00:34:56.680
I was driving a giant U-Haul and she was in the family car and we were having a blast.
00:35:01.080
And I once in a while pull up next to her and give her a first down again.
00:35:06.700
And now, no matter what, we know we're in God's will because we've been through a process
00:35:11.380
and we feel peace even when it's 115 degrees in the summer.
00:35:18.560
So those are some processes people should walk through.
00:35:27.400
You don't want to be in a situation where you have a medical emergency and you don't have
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00:36:36.740
Gosh, I remember when Timothy wanted to move from Georgia, and I did not.
00:36:48.020
And I had a timeline, like a specific timeline in my head.
00:36:51.900
I was—and my reasons weren't bad for wanting to stay in Georgia.
00:36:55.260
I was working, but I was leading this Bible study of girls, and I really wanted to see
00:37:01.740
And to me, I was like, well, that's a really good reason.
00:37:04.800
Obviously, this is God indicating to me that we should stay.
00:37:08.740
But Timothy was convicted strongly that we needed to move, and he got a job elsewhere.
00:37:15.360
And while I didn't initially agree, and I didn't see his perspective, I totally understand what
00:37:21.260
you're talking about with Christine's reaction, because I did end up agreeing with him, and we
00:37:30.180
It was like, that was really one of the first leadership tests of our marriage.
00:37:34.720
And because it was obviously not sin that he wanted to move us somewhere else, I was
00:37:39.180
like, okay, this isn't really exactly what I had in mind, but he feels strongly this is
00:37:45.540
I don't know if we had necessarily the specifically seven Ps in our process, but he was certainly
00:37:53.380
And we did have peace, and obviously, God has worked that together for our good and
00:38:00.420
So it's so important for people to realize that peace doesn't necessarily mean, especially
00:38:05.100
you as a wife, that you are going to 100% at the onset agree with everything that your
00:38:11.500
husband is proposing, or whatever opportunity God is putting in front of you.
00:38:15.220
It might be a process of God working that out in your heart as a means of sanctification
00:38:21.420
You'll never be forcing in the sense that one person is being dominated or dragged,
00:38:28.300
but more so, I think God uses those processes to grow us closer to one another, to be sanctified,
00:38:34.600
to be humbled, to also build trust in a marriage or those relationships.
00:38:38.780
So everything, yeah, what you're talking about is awesome, because it's so helpful for people
00:38:49.060
We ascribe motives in marriage, like, well, you're just trying to hold me back, or you're
00:38:58.380
And what's interesting is both of your desires, neither one was sin, and yours was spiritual,
00:39:03.420
and his could have been and could be spiritual.
00:39:05.340
As a man providing and a door opens up, and working that out, I think God strengthens our
00:39:13.160
So my encouragement to folks is to have some sort of process in place.
00:39:17.680
And maybe they cherry-pick one of the Ps at any given moment or work through those things.
00:39:22.440
But our relationships are going to be stronger, healthier, and our confidence won't wane.
00:39:28.000
One story that comes to mind is when our kind of stand for truth coincided with a cancer
00:39:37.540
Our son, Timothy, was diagnosed with a rare form of cancer.
00:39:40.320
And it's why I wrote the book, More Than a Healer, because I know people are out there
00:39:44.420
going like, well, Jesus is a healer, but He's so much more, and there's so many aspects to
00:39:51.100
And there was a family member that said, are you sure?
00:39:56.540
You're telling me that you have a son who gets diagnosed with a rare form of cancer at
00:40:02.920
three months old, and no part of you believes that's God judging Him and your home because
00:40:19.040
And it almost seems like God, instead of touching, because it was prophesied that God was going
00:40:24.300
to kill me and things were going to happen to me, and because of what I had done, and
00:40:29.400
one person suggested, even more than touching me, the Lord's chosen to strike my son, so
00:40:39.640
And I remember this calm came over me, because there can be like a righteous anger, and like
00:40:45.420
you've touched the kid now, and you're going after that, and it's so wrong, and it's spiritually
00:40:49.040
abusive, but this calm flooded over me, and I said, I am absolutely sure.
00:40:54.500
And they looked at me dumbfounded, like they couldn't believe it.
00:40:58.160
That peace came from the fact that I knew I was on the side of truth.
00:41:06.080
I knew that my decisions were in line with Scripture, never been perfect, haven't done
00:41:10.300
it all right, probably came out a little hot and burned some bridges.
00:41:13.480
I blew the whole city apart when I did it and was like, we're going to get them all.
00:41:16.840
And I was like, maybe I should be a little more gracious and open up conversation.
00:41:24.880
It's like, you should be caged for a little while, unless you just hurt people for the
00:41:30.340
But I knew I had followed Scripture, and so I didn't have to second guess.
00:41:34.980
And I know there's people out there listening or watching who, you made that move.
00:41:41.320
You went to that school, and you walked through a biblical process, and then something bad
00:41:50.420
Maybe the house didn't happen like you thought it would, and it foreclosed.
00:41:53.500
Or maybe you missed something, and you thought, man, if I wouldn't have done this, I wouldn't
00:41:58.260
Let me tell you, if you go through a process, you don't have to be crippled by fear, paralysis
00:42:09.720
God will cause all things to work together for the good of those who love Him and are
00:42:20.160
And if you've done that, then even come a cancer diagnosis, you don't have to second
00:42:28.260
You know, even those of us who are not in the prosperity gospel camp, it can be so easy
00:42:33.660
to look at bad things that happen and think, wow, is this the result of me making the wrong
00:42:43.260
If you sow the seed of faith, tithe, do this, whatever, then God will reward you for your
00:42:52.960
And I think all of us can kind of think that without realizing it that, wow, are these bad
00:42:59.920
circumstances a punishment for something that I didn't realize?
00:43:03.720
Or conversely, am I getting these blessings because I'm doing something right?
00:43:09.480
And I'm sure, like growing up in the ministry that you were raised, I'm sure that was a mentality
00:43:14.020
of, well, if we were really sinning, would God be blessing us with this Gulfstream?
00:43:21.060
Of course God is on our side because He's given us all these things.
00:43:25.220
It's easy for us on a smaller scale to also kind of get stuck in that mentality.
00:43:30.220
I call it prosperity gospel light or the diet version is I don't believe like Joel Osteen
00:43:35.700
and I'm not following this crazy Benny Hinn guy and I ain't driving Bentleys and believing
00:43:42.040
that, but we have this mentality that if I obey God and do all the right things, then
00:43:48.740
And it works in first world America because generally speaking, if you work hard and you're
00:43:55.360
a good person, dependable, hard work, life can get better fiscally every year and things
00:44:01.600
And pretty soon you get in the pattern of like, well, I do all things the right way.
00:44:06.900
And I think it's a slippery slope because pretty soon when trial does hit, and we know
00:44:11.580
it will, suffering and trials are a part of the Christian life.
00:44:14.860
When it does, we get disillusioned if we've attached our blessings to just our obedience,
00:44:20.480
then we tend to, by default, prosperity gospel light version, even though we say we're not
00:44:25.440
Osteen, we've attached our trials then to disobedience.
00:44:30.440
Now God must be mad and I must not be doing enough.
00:44:35.020
There's a passage in the Psalms, Psalm 37, verse 4.
00:44:39.560
And I used to think that it meant if I delight myself in the Lord, He's going to give me whatever
00:44:45.400
The passage is delight yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart.
00:44:49.760
So I used to say, I'm going to delight myself in the Lord and He's going to give me all my
00:44:55.000
Years later, I'm reading that passage and it strikes me biblically, proper hermeneutics,
00:45:04.280
I look at it and I saw it with new eyes and I thought, delight yourself in the Lord.
00:45:10.360
So you're delighting in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart, meaning
00:45:14.620
you are delighting yourself in the Lord and He will put in your heart the desires He wants
00:45:21.140
And so if you read it the way that it's properly written and conveyed biblically is, delight
00:45:26.240
yourselves in the Lord and He will place in you.
00:45:29.060
He'll give you the desires that are in your heart, meaning He put them there.
00:45:33.240
Too many people are delighting in other things.
00:45:35.880
But if you delight yourself in the Lord, your steps will be ordered.
00:45:39.480
And when you have the desire to take the step of faith in some area, when you have the desire
00:45:44.380
to reach out to that person, when you have the desire to take a sacrificial step in some
00:45:50.320
other way, whatever that looks like, and good desires, the desire for a job, the desire for
00:45:55.060
a certain career, the desire for a family, if you can't necessarily have your own children
00:46:01.780
biologically, the desire to adopt, the desire to minister to the poor, the desire to reach
00:46:06.700
out to the hurting person or start a Bible study for young women, if you're delighting in
00:46:10.520
the Lord, He will have put those desires in you.
00:46:14.280
And so the main question people should ask about God's will is, am I delighting in the
00:46:24.420
If you are, I'm convinced biblically everything else flows into the wake of that, like a boat
00:46:35.720
It really gets simple when you think about your sole purpose in life is to enjoy God.
00:46:43.460
And if you're enjoying God, you're obeying Him.
00:46:48.860
That doesn't mean that everything is easy, but it does simplify it.
00:47:00.060
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I love what you said about objective versus subjective piece, and I've never heard it exactly like that,
00:48:03.780
but it reminds me, I remember I had a conversation with a friend, gosh, maybe in college or maybe
00:48:09.040
in high school, and we were talking about, you know, this relationship with this guy that
00:48:15.760
And, you know, she was someone who professed to be a Christian, and, you know, maybe she
00:48:20.560
really was at the time, but I remember she told me, well, I just don't feel convicted about that.
00:48:25.860
So it's like, I don't feel convicted about that.
00:48:28.720
And we've probably all been there, just that callousness.
00:48:31.880
If I don't feel it in my heart, then this must not be bad.
00:48:38.140
And I was thinking about the verse in Philippians 4, the piece that God will give us, the piece
00:48:46.020
But I wonder if sometimes we misinterpret that to mean the piece that defies understanding.
00:48:52.900
Like the piece that denies understanding and is denying the wisdom of the Lord.
00:48:57.620
And so if it's a piece apart from what the Word of God says, then it's not a piece that
00:49:05.380
And there's a difference in peace and having Holy Spirit-filled assurance and not being able
00:49:11.420
to feel conviction altogether because your heart is just hard.
00:49:17.760
The piece that surpasses understanding, it's going even beyond what we read in God's Word,
00:49:27.080
So when you have a piece that surpasses all understanding, it would be as though you're
00:49:31.980
going through something, you and Timothy, and I come along and I'm going, you guys, how
00:49:42.380
And you say, Kosti, our anxiousness was given over to the Lord.
00:49:53.320
And we've just been overwhelmed with this sense of peace, even in the midst of all that's
00:50:02.620
And you say, we're leaving all those in the Lord's capable hands and trusting Him.
00:50:08.440
But what we're going to do is control what we can.
00:50:13.460
And we're staying low and submitted before Him, knowing that He's the sovereign over
00:50:19.520
Well, yeah, but Timothy, Ali, Beth, if you don't make moves, and if you don't this, and
00:50:23.700
if you don't...that's how so much of the world operates.
00:50:28.380
And people lose their minds because they're not rooted in the Lord Jesus Christ.
00:50:34.400
And so that passage in Philippians 4, where it starts in verse 6 and goes all the way
00:50:38.720
to verse 9, when it talks about what you dwell on.
00:50:41.620
Dwell on what is about whatever is right, true, noble, lovely, of good repute.
00:50:46.820
Because what you think about, what you dwell on will consume you.
00:50:53.360
And that's where your destination is going to lead to.
00:50:57.740
You don't say, well, I just don't feel convicted about that.
00:51:00.320
You may not feel convicted about something because you are not full of God's Word.
00:51:06.080
It's impossible to be convicted by something that you don't know.
00:51:14.260
When we're confident about God's will, it's not to be cocky.
00:51:19.480
It's to say, hey, I'm confident and I have such peace in the will of God because I'm
00:51:28.860
Demystify God's plan for your life and make decisions with confidence.
00:51:32.220
The reason I wrote it, there were two book ideas.
00:51:35.020
I walked into the office of my co-planter, Brett McIntosh, one of our pastors, and the
00:51:47.660
I interrupted their meeting before I wrote the book.
00:51:50.180
I said, hey, I got two book ideas with Zondervan, this one and this one.
00:51:53.760
And they both immediately were like, the book on God's will, the book on God's will.
00:51:59.280
And Tom said, literally every week, it's like clockwork.
00:52:07.560
And Brett was like, literally, dude, all the people we counsel, so much that we deal
00:52:15.900
How do I have peace in the midst of good versus good, great versus great?
00:52:21.320
What seems to be not sin and what seems to be not sin?
00:52:26.980
And my pastoral heart is just going, what if there's a resource?
00:52:31.480
And what if there's just biblical guidance that could help people say, we feel biblical
00:52:41.200
Gosh, I remember two things growing up that helped demystify God's will for me.
00:52:46.900
And this is just a reminder, when you're giving your kids a Christian education, all those
00:52:51.800
times you're sending them to Awanas and church camp, and maybe moms and dads are thinking,
00:52:57.360
There are these crazy teenagers who don't want to talk, whatever it is.
00:53:01.880
I talk to lots of parents with kids in all different directions spiritually.
00:53:06.120
But just know, again, like we always say, those are seeds planted that will blossom in
00:53:11.560
And I still remember little things told to me throughout my upbringing.
00:53:16.020
And I remember this time at church camp, whatever pastor they brought in, I don't even remember
00:53:21.260
his name, but I remember him telling me that it was wrong to open up your Bible and pray
00:53:28.800
that God would show you the answer just by like moving your finger around, which I guess
00:53:35.020
I'm sure that sounds like a very middle school thing to do.
00:53:37.520
But that was how we were trying to interpret God's will, that God is going to mysteriously
00:53:42.720
And I just remember him saying, the Bible is organized like it is for a reason.
00:53:49.480
And that actually took a huge burden off of me that I didn't have to be this, you know,
00:53:56.860
basically this sorcerer using this as like a magic eight ball or like a crystal ball.
00:54:01.260
And then the second thing, and I would be so curious to hear what you think about this
00:54:05.800
as we close out, because I'm not sure it's really the most theologically true thing.
00:54:09.680
However, I do think it again, relieved this burden of anxiety for me in making decisions.
00:54:14.480
Junior year Bible teacher, he said this, and he was kind of one to just say something to
00:54:19.280
shock you, but he said, God doesn't care what college you go to.
00:54:26.100
He said, as long as you, but he was kind of saying what you're saying.
00:54:30.120
Go through this process of making the decision, neither one is sin, both will be fine in light
00:54:37.800
I don't know if the initial statement was correct, but I understand what he was trying
00:54:43.940
He was, no, he was, this was junior year of high school.
00:54:53.240
So, but those two things kind of helped me also, like brought me to the understanding
00:55:00.880
of the sovereignty of God, but in less formal and sophisticated way, helped me kind of understand
00:55:08.000
that this is not something that I'm searching out through my own emotions and feelings, because
00:55:12.880
that is a really big burden for people to carry.
00:55:15.700
And the sovereignty of God, people see that as scary.
00:55:21.160
You lay your head on at night and I go, oh, I can sleep because you are in control.
00:55:29.480
So we used to, I call it now the Bible thumb game.
00:55:33.100
And I've done this in the pulpit at our church, like church, this is not how you hear from
00:55:39.100
Lord, what do you want me to hear from you today on?
00:55:41.700
You open it up and it's like the curses of your forefathers.
00:55:48.400
And it's like, I will bless you and pour out it.
00:55:49.980
You're like, that's my, that's the word from the Lord for me today.
00:55:52.400
Oh, this is so Bible thumb game, not the way to do it.
00:55:57.240
But second, I would say our teacher friend was being provocative on purpose to get you
00:56:05.460
That's why I asked, is he a prof or a teacher in these seminary guys?
00:56:08.220
So typically when guys have a good handle on this and gals, the way they'll come at
00:56:12.820
the thing is go, did you know that God doesn't necessarily, I would qualify a bit, you know
00:56:18.060
that God's not as interested in which house you buy as interested in other things?
00:56:25.440
Or did you know that God doesn't necessarily care which state you move to?
00:56:28.880
There's other things that are higher on his priority list, like say more.
00:56:36.140
He cares about your head, your mind, the mind of Christ.
00:56:42.040
He wants you, not necessarily what you're after.
00:56:46.760
And in that I would say my premise in the book is, and not in some legalistic false formula
00:56:53.480
or false promises, if you do these things, if you walk through this, and really by do
00:56:58.000
I mean get an understanding of the gospel, who Jesus is, what God's Word says, who you
00:57:03.640
are, and then what God's Word has for you by way of wisdom, then you can make whatever
00:57:09.700
decision is in front of you, and trust that you're walking in His will.
00:57:15.340
The final chapter, it's like an epilogue basically on the book, is encouragement for
00:57:23.460
And I basically tell people, you're not going to get it right all the time.
00:57:31.800
If you walk through that road or you take the directions and it's a biblical direction,
00:57:37.680
then you're going to be able to even course correct by going back to God's Word.
00:57:42.540
So I would say, if people walk closely with the Word of God, then yeah, I believe strongly
00:57:49.320
that He will bless you in your going there, and He'll bless you in your going there.
00:57:55.680
He'll bless you in your changing if you follow a biblical process.
00:58:00.880
I genuinely believe you could have stayed and finished the girls' Bible study until they're
00:58:06.860
I believe that I could have moved different places.
00:58:10.280
I believe there are other options, and yet we chose to do something, and we see it now
00:58:22.200
And in that, yeah, make your decision, and He'll work it out.
00:58:26.640
And I love what you said earlier, that God is not sitting out there saying, gosh, I didn't
00:58:35.040
Yeah, I remember a friend telling me that I got a bad grade on a final in college, and
00:58:39.140
she said, do you really think this grade is going to be the thing that thwarts God's will
00:58:47.200
Relatable would have never happened because you failed.
00:58:56.680
And this book really does, it's a perfect word, demystify God's will, because God is
00:59:03.700
He's a God of peace, and He has so graciously revealed Himself to us, yes, through the Holy
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Spirit, who's our helper, through Jesus Christ, Word made flesh, but also through the Word
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And, gosh, He's gone through, He's gone to a lot of lengths to make sure that we can know
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And are we passionate to pursue everything else that will tangibly give us what we want?
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Or have we paused and said, God, what do you want?
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Okay, walking in God's will, demystify God's plan for your life, and make decisions with