00:33:13.740He, you know, laid down his life, which is just not the right comparison when we're talking about the reality of living in a constitutional republic and the reality of policymaking today.
00:33:26.340But really, both sides, if we're honest, are saying this similar thing, is that we both want power to impose the policies that we think are best.
00:33:38.160And really, it actually tends to be conservative policy that is wresting power away from the government, especially the federal government.
00:33:45.400We're saying, no, we want the government to have less power.
00:33:48.180We want more power on the local level.
00:33:50.760And actually, that we believe in proper distinctions between church authority and familial authority, community authority, and then state and federal authority.
00:34:01.020As you said, authority is not inherently bad.
00:34:04.720It just depends on what it is being used for.
00:34:07.360And that is where the honest debate really comes in, is which policies best align with God's definition of good.
00:34:14.720And Christians have to know our Bibles to know what those definitions really are, right?
00:34:22.180And, you know, it's interesting that you mentioned the spiritualization sometimes of that and say, well, Jesus, you know, he gave up his power.
00:34:28.720He wasn't looking to take over anything.
00:34:30.820But it's such, I just have to add on to that, it's such a terrible analogy that so many people bring up because this started with a very well-known pastor who posted this at some point on X about how, you know, Jesus gave up his power on the cross and therefore we should be giving up our power too.
00:34:46.800Just because Jesus pursued one kind of good, a spiritual good in terms of dying for our sins and the atonement by giving up power, if that's what you want to call it, I would still argue with that characterization of it.
00:34:58.600But by giving up power to be on the cross doesn't mean that no one can achieve other kinds of goods in other ways.
00:35:04.180It goes without saying that those are just completely not comparable.
00:35:08.940So, you know, we have to look at the fullness of Scripture to understand what we are called to do.
00:35:14.020And that's why, you know, to your point, we have to understand the Bible because if we don't, we're going to look at individual things like that.
00:35:20.440And when we see well-known pastors who post something like that, we say, oh, well, I guess, you know, I guess that's it.
00:35:25.740I guess that because Jesus gave up his power on the cross, I'm supposed to give up power in society.
00:35:30.100We make really bad conclusions if we don't know the fullness of the Bible.
00:35:34.700We have to understand the full witness of Scripture if we're going to pursue what's right and what's good for society.
00:35:43.700I mean, the history of the church is manifesting this, what has been often seen as a radical worldview of that includes the dignity of all people.
00:35:56.720And people have heard me say this in pretty much every speech that I give, and I talk about it a lot on the show.
00:36:02.640But this book by Owen Backey called When Children Became People, and he chronicles the history of the church and how the church and their idea of the Imago Dei, which, of course, is originally the Hebrew concept that goes all the way back to the first chapter of Genesis.
00:36:20.300But when they evangelized that message and then also had this message of the gospel, which said everyone is equally dead and sin apart from Christ, doesn't matter how rich you are, doesn't matter your gender, doesn't matter your age, and everyone by grace through faith can be made alive in him.
00:36:38.260And then you become brothers and sisters in Christ, and there's no Jew nor Greek nor slave nor free nor male nor female.
00:36:44.180Now, that was an amazingly equalizing message that the ancient pagan Roman world did not believe.
00:36:51.140They believed that it was the logos, your ability for rationality, your ability to reason that gave you value.
00:36:59.240And they believed it was only the adult free male that had that value.
00:37:03.120Well, it was Christians living out the truth of Scripture, sharing the gospel that changed how the world saw people, that changed particularly how the world saw previously subjugated people like children.
00:37:18.360And so children became this underclass of subhuman barbarians in the pagan Roman world to people that were given extra honor and special care because of their vulnerability.
00:37:31.860They were adopted and put in orphanages and given education and food and clothes.
00:37:37.760That's Christian history that forged Western civilization, which is based on this fundamental idea that all people are made in the image of God.
00:37:46.020And if Christians from the beginning had said, I have no say in what Nero is doing, I have no opinion about these policies that are in place.
00:37:56.400Sure, it's, you know, these policies are incentivizing infanticide and widespread abortion and the subjugation of poor people, but I don't have any business with that.
00:38:11.160The world would look like tribalism and barbarism.
00:38:15.220Most things that secularists take for granted today are based on the Christian idea of people having dignity and Christians saying, I'm going to care about politics and culture.
00:38:29.700And it's amazing how much opportunity we as Christians in America today have to influence the common good in ways that Christians a couple thousand years ago didn't have.
00:38:40.240And like you're saying, they're still out there.
00:38:42.200They were doing exactly what they could do and should have done at the time.
00:38:45.960And yet we have so much more ability in a legal sense to be able to do this because we live in this constitutional democracy.
00:38:53.440And Christians are taking that for granted.
00:38:55.600Christians who become convinced that, oh, we shouldn't be, quote unquote, political because we've been told so much by nonbelievers that that that's a bad thing.
00:39:02.920And we come to believe this and it hurts people.
00:39:05.820It actually harms people when we stay out of it, because if we're not, again, fighting for the common good, according to God's standards, someone else is going to be fighting good for according to their own standards.
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00:41:00.080So these are kind of the three steps to act or persevere in the public square.
00:41:04.640So to start with knowing your biblical authority, it goes without saying that you're going to be more motivated to actually advocate for what's right if you're convinced that the God of the universe has told you to.
00:41:15.840So if you truly believe that the God who created everything, who sustained everything, who made you has said that this is what is good and this is what is true, this is what's actually helpful.
00:41:26.760If you're convinced that you know that because the Bible is God's word, then you're going to be much more motivated to get out and do the things that we're talking about.
00:41:35.400And so that's why that first letter is so important to know your biblical authority.
00:41:39.180So many Christians today, like we talked about with those statistics, they don't know their biblical authority.
00:41:43.620They say they're Christian, but they don't believe what the Bible teaches, whether that's a conscious rejection or not.
00:41:50.540And then the C is for strengthened conviction.
00:41:53.320So this speaks to, okay, once you know your authority, are you convicted that you understand truly what God is teaching in the Bible?
00:42:01.880So I give an example in the book of a couple of a Lutheran bishop and an Episcopalian bishop.
00:42:07.920And they're basically saying that they are fighting for the rights of trans people because they're made in the image of God, they're image bearers, and they make this whole statement that if you haven't talked about this issue, you haven't studied it at all, you might look at that and say, well, I think they're made in the image of God, too.
00:42:24.460I think that they're image bearers and they deserve dignity.
00:42:27.540And you start to get confused thinking, well, what should I believe about this as a Christian?
00:42:34.680And so there are a lot of Christians who would actually say, yes, I believe the Bible is God's word, but they don't have the conviction on the individual issues because they're not sure they fully understand what it teaches on these things.
00:42:45.220So if we want to strengthen conviction, the C, then we have to actually get educated and equipped on these individual issues that are so important for the common good today.
00:42:53.540And then the last one, maintain tenacity, the T, is really about resetting our expectations.
00:42:59.140So a lot of Christians today think they have done something wrong if people are upset with them.
00:43:04.580They immediately think, you know, I've been cut off by a friend or a family member.
00:43:12.300Whatever the case is, they think they have done something that's a problem biblically because their expectation is that people will always like me.
00:43:21.400Their expectation is that as long as people think I'm nice, then I must be okay.
00:43:25.720But that's the wrong expectation to have.
00:43:28.100We're not going to have the tenacity to continue if we know the Bible is God's word and if we have the conviction on an individual issue, but then we get out there and we start speaking up for truth and immediately get batted down because people don't like us for it and we think something went wrong.
00:44:28.900And people who are slaves to sin are always going to hate those who are slaves to righteousness, who are children of God, because the darkness hates the light.
00:44:38.240The light shines on the works of evil.
00:45:24.000Is, you know, is what I'm saying not too offensive?
00:45:27.900Now, some people might be surprised that I even ever have those thoughts, but of course, just like anyone in the public square, like, no one loves hearing things like, oh, you're just, you know, you're being unloving by having this position or that was too harsh.
00:45:42.820And of course, I never want to be thought of as too harsh, but the truth is that no matter how nicely you say something, when something is a hard truth, there are going to be people who believe that you're mean.
00:45:58.300I mean, Stephen was full of grace and power.
00:46:14.540And it's always worth asking ourselves, right, if somebody is upset with me, did I say something in a rude or hurtful way?
00:46:21.600None of us are perfect in doing that, so I'm not suggesting that it's never on us, but the message itself is always going to be offensive.
00:46:28.880This culture ultimately is in deep rebellion against its creator, and it's in rebellion because our culture wants to go its own way.
00:46:36.840Every individual who is outside a relationship with the Lord wants to go with their own wills and desires.
00:46:42.240And when you're turning to yourself as the authority on all things for what is right and wrong and good and bad and harmful and helpful, and you're not turning to God as that authority, when somebody else comes along, a Christian comes along and says, you're actually not the boss.
00:46:55.660You're not the one who gets to determine what is true.
00:47:01.900If you want to be your own authority and someone tells you no, it's actually God who determines what is good or bad or harmful or helpful, people are not going to like that.
00:47:10.480No. I mean, the God of self is very cruel, and will ask you to sacrifice all sorts of things on its altar.
00:48:35.780So for the Christian who says, but I just want to love people, and I just want to share the gospel, and that's what I want to focus on, and I'm afraid that bringing up these issues is going to actually hinder my evangelism.
00:48:57.920Well, I would ask them how they define love, because if they're saying, I just, quote unquote, just want to love people, which is how a lot of people do say it, then I would want to understand how they frame that concept.
00:49:09.520Because when Jesus was asked about the two greatest commandments, he said it's number one, to love God, and number two, to love others.
00:49:17.800That hierarchy is really important, because you can't know how to love others unless you first know what it means to love God.
00:49:24.640It frames what it means to love other people.
00:49:27.240And so if we're trying to love people on our own terms, according to what we think is loving, we're going to get it wrong.
00:49:33.440We have to go back to what God has said about loving people.
00:49:37.000And so when we do that, of course, that includes evangelism.
00:49:39.640God wants us to care about people's souls.
00:49:47.480When we are out here saying, you know, we need to care about advocating for righteousness in the public square, we're not saying that means you shouldn't be witnessing to people.
00:50:38.420I've heard Christians, true Christians say, I just don't want any enemies.
00:50:42.760And I'm just not sure how we can read scripture and come to the conclusion that that's ever a possibility for the Christian, especially in such hostile times.
00:50:53.620Has there been a time where you've been scared yourself in a personal conversation or publicly saying something that's true that's controversial, but you know that God says it's true?
00:51:14.980I think a lot of times people assume that if you're out writing and speaking about these kinds of subjects, you must have this really thick skin.
00:51:37.060And yet I continue to do what I do because I'm convinced that Christianity is true.
00:51:42.260And if Christianity is true, that's going to have a lot of implications for my life and how I live if I fully believe that and have put my trust in Jesus.
00:51:49.800And so for me, it comes down to conviction.
00:51:52.620You have to have conviction that Christianity is true.
00:51:55.420And maybe that comes from my background as an apologist that I have this intense focus on that.
00:52:00.340But at the same time, I think that if you had talked to me when I was in my early 20s, I don't just think.
00:52:05.580I know if you had talked to me in college, there's no way I would have been speaking out about the things that I'm speaking out now.
00:52:10.640I would have called myself a Christian.
00:52:12.200I would have said that I believed all the things that a Christian should.
00:52:15.640But I wouldn't have been speaking out about things because I didn't have the conviction yet that, wow, this is really true.
00:52:21.340It's the whole picture of the world, and this is the truth about reality.
00:52:26.440So I think with conviction comes the desire to speak out.
00:52:30.580And a lot of Christians today—I was just reading some research about this the other day.
00:52:33.440I wish I could remember the exact number, but a lot of Christians say that they have a lot of doubts about their faith.
00:52:39.680And so if you have doubts about your faith, you're not going to put yourself out there to be hated by people.
00:52:44.580You're not going to put yourself out there to, quote, unquote, make enemies.
00:52:47.960You don't want to lose family members over speaking up.
00:52:50.540So I think it's a problem of conviction in the church.
00:52:52.940And I think that if anyone is listening and thinking, well, I don't know if I have that kind of conviction, well, then I encourage you to get the conviction.
00:53:09.620If Christianity is true, it has nothing to fear.
00:53:11.580And if it's not true, you better figure that out soon and walk away from it because there's no point in being a Christian if it's not true.
00:53:17.960So go out and find the answers to your questions.
00:53:32.540I think a lot of people are so scared of being seen as self-righteous or as prideful or arrogant.
00:53:41.240And I see that a lot, especially with women.
00:53:44.020When a woman says, no, I know what I believe, not because I came up with it, not because I'm super smart, but because this is what God's Word says, they will be called arrogant.
00:54:10.360That is almost looked down upon, I think, especially among women.
00:54:14.060And I just wonder how much of that is because so many women's Bible studies, women's Christian books, women's conferences, women's, you know, preschool mom groups are really just focused on the self.
00:54:27.020How you feel, making sure that your self-esteem is up, making sure that you know that you're beautiful, that you're perfect, that you're worthy, that you're all of these things, that you get enough self-care and all of that.
00:54:39.020Like, so many women's events and resources are focused on women's feelings and women's self-esteem rather than equipping women, telling them, first of all, you need God.
00:54:53.140The Bible has, you know, has the answers that you're seeking and equipping them to be theologians and apologists in their own home.
00:55:00.660And I think that's why a lot of women are like, they doubt a lot and they're scared to even be confident in God's word because they get shut down when they are.
00:55:10.820I will never forget one of the very first speaking events I ever did.
00:55:14.160I was just getting started as a speaker and I was invited to come and talk to a local moms group at a church.
00:55:18.980And they had me come in about ways that we can help our kids better understand their faith.
00:55:24.100And so I did a little talk that I had come up with.
00:55:25.920And I will never forget that when I ended that, the lady came up who had hosted me there and then she was encouraging everyone to come the next week for the session.
00:55:34.060The next session that they were going to be focused on was how to do better scrapbooking with your kids.
00:55:39.180And I'm not saying we can't talk about scrapbooking at church.
00:55:57.060And I remember just being very jolted by that, thinking, like, this is crazy that, you know, I come in to talk about this really heavy topic and next week we're scrapbooking.
00:56:05.280And if you looked at the other topics they were having, it was nothing like what I was talking about.
00:56:09.660I mean, it was very light, very fluffy.
00:56:11.760And I think that that gets replicated over and over again in the church.
00:56:17.980Every time that you are using that opportunity to talk about scrapbooking when you could be actually working on the discipleship of women, you're losing something major.
00:56:28.820And that probably sounds harsh to some people.
00:56:31.380I know it sounds harsh to, you know, make it sound like, oh, well, we shouldn't just get together.
00:56:35.060Well, sure, have fellowship opportunities.
00:56:36.840But when you're getting women together at some kind of weekly event at your church, focus on bringing them deeper in the Word, helping them to understand Scripture so that they can gain a biblical worldview that then they can pass to their children if they have children.
00:56:54.800Because, you know, we are people made in God's image, and the Holy Spirit is doing work through our lives, too.
00:57:00.560And so we need the equipment from God's Word.
00:57:02.940And so I encourage every one of you, whether you're a man or a woman, but especially those of you who are moms out there, get this book, When Culture Hates You.