Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1164 ｜ Andy Stanley’s New Trans Training & Should Kids Grocery Shop Alone？

00:00:01.000 Andy Stanley's church has released a training series for its middle school small group leaders on sexuality and so-called gender identity.

00:00:11.840 And what we are watching is extremely disturbing.

00:00:16.980 We will play some clips today and give our response to it.

00:00:20.720 Also, is the Trump administration finally going too far when it comes to how they are dealing with deportations?

00:00:27.520 And Brie and I will continue the conversation about parents allowing their kids to take risks.

00:00:35.060 What is too much?

00:00:36.320 All of this and more on today's episode of Relatable.

00:00:48.480 Hey guys, welcome to Relatable.

00:00:50.340 Happy Tuesday.

00:00:51.260 Hope everyone is having a wonderful week so far.

00:00:53.720 Make sure you check out yesterday's episode with Natasha Crane.

00:00:57.200 Isn't she amazing? 1.00

00:00:58.440 Just so brilliant, articulate, so encouraging.

00:01:02.300 And I hope you felt bolstered and edified after that conversation to unapologetically bring your entire worldview into every sphere that you occupy.

00:01:12.540 If you don't know exactly what that looks like, let me give you the encouragement that I give almost weekly on this show.

00:01:18.540 Do the next right thing in faith with excellence and for the glory of God.

00:01:22.700 That is kind of an addition to a maxim that was always repeated by Elizabeth Elliot, one of my favorite speakers and authors.

00:01:31.240 She would also say the only thing that you have to do today is the will of God.

00:01:36.620 And that might sound intimidating.

00:01:39.720 That might sound mysterious.

00:01:41.760 But when you break it down to only doing the next right thing in faith with excellence and for the glory of God, no matter how seemingly small and trivial that might be, or no matter how public and impactful that might be.

00:01:56.100 That is all we are ever called to do in any given moment.

00:01:59.540 And the Holy Spirit, which dwells in us, which is just as powerful today, who is just as powerful today as he has always been, he equips us to be able to accomplish God's will in wisdom and with his grace in any given moment.

00:02:18.140 So go back, listen to yesterday's episode.

00:02:20.560 Okay, before we get into some stories for today, well, actually a couple of things.

00:02:24.780 One, if you haven't gotten your tickets for Share the Arrows, make sure you do that.

00:02:28.160 Go to sharethearrows.com.

00:02:29.660 We've got our speakers, y'all.

00:02:31.200 We still have a couple that we have not announced yet, but we've got Elisa Childers coming back this year.

00:02:35.960 She was a crowd favorite last year. 0.92

00:02:37.740 Absolutely amazing on apologetics.

00:02:40.580 We've also got a health panel, which is going to be awesome.

00:02:44.020 This is new this year.

00:02:45.000 We've got Shauna Holman from A Little Less Toxic. 0.98

00:02:48.020 We've had her on the show before. 0.78

00:02:49.180 We have Taylor Dukes of Taylor Dukes Wellness.

00:02:51.980 We've also had her on the show just approaching health from a biblical and balanced and natural perspective and worldview.

00:03:01.680 And then we've also got Katie Faust, and she really needs no introduction to y'all.

00:03:06.300 You know that she is going to absolutely bring it with the hard truths.

00:03:09.960 We've got Ginger Duggar Vuolo. 0.58

00:03:12.500 She will be encouraging us in a conversation on stage.

00:03:16.680 And then we will also have a panel on motherhood and the importance of raising children in the Lord, making a home that glorifies the Lord and that is conducive to discipleship.

00:03:27.840 And those speakers, that announcement is forthcoming.

00:03:31.380 And then, of course, I will be there as well.

00:03:33.020 Francesca Madestelli, Leading Worship.

00:03:35.120 So make sure you get your tickets.

00:03:36.500 Book your flights.

00:03:37.260 Book your hotels.

00:03:38.040 It's sharethearrows.com for all of that information.

00:03:42.680 That's sharethearrows.com.

00:03:44.740 All right.

00:03:45.400 Brie and I are going to continue a little conversation that we had last week.

00:03:50.200 It was the topic of discussion on Thursday's episode, I believe, when we talked about Jonathan Haidt's Anxious Generation.

00:03:57.460 We talked about the importance, according to Jonathan Haidt, of allowing your kids to engage in a reasonable risk at the right age and how important it is for us to foster bravery and to foster independence in our kids.

00:04:16.680 Because we, as parents, especially today, are extremely anxious.

00:04:23.200 And it's not just because the world is scary, because the world absolutely can be scary, but it's actually because we have access to all of these scary things.

00:04:35.220 We see everything scary that is happening in our country and in the world all at once.

00:04:41.540 And honestly, humans were never meant to have that power.

00:04:46.860 We were never meant to have that knowledge.

00:04:49.240 We simply don't have the capacity to be able to handle all of that information, all of those frightening images and stories all at once.

00:04:58.680 And so it makes us overly scared when, really, if you look at the statistics on things like kidnapping and crime, we don't live in that regard in a more dangerous world than we used to.

00:05:12.360 I say that as someone who is very anxious and protective myself, but I'm trying to learn and to really be reasonable when it comes to this.

00:05:20.740 And part of that conversation was we played a video of a mom on Instagram who allowed her seven-year-old to go into a Chick-fil-A while she was waiting in the car.

00:05:32.860 She was parked right there by the exit.

00:05:35.300 She was watching the exit, but she allowed her seven-year-old to take her card or maybe cash, go in, order Chick-fil-A, wait for it, and then come back out.

00:05:44.540 And he was just so excited.

00:05:45.980 He felt so confident.

00:05:46.780 And so we shared that clip on Instagram last night, and wow, oh my goodness, it sparked so much discussion among my followers.

00:05:55.980 Very disparate views.

00:05:57.560 A lot of people saying, yes, that was amazing.

00:06:00.780 We've done the same thing for my kids. 0.52

00:06:03.200 And then you've had other people being like, oh my gosh, Allie, are you crazy? 1.00

00:06:07.240 Are you crazy? 0.95

00:06:07.940 I can't believe that you are promoting something like this. 1.00

00:06:11.240 This is insane.

00:06:12.860 And I didn't give that much of my take last week.

00:06:16.100 And so I just want to flesh it out a little bit more.

00:06:20.280 And I shared this on Instagram.

00:06:22.520 My stance is that it is important to allow kids to engage in that kind of behavior and take those kinds of actions at the right age.

00:06:34.140 But it depends on the age of your child.

00:06:36.620 It depends on the ability of your child.

00:06:38.660 It depends on your literal, geographical, physical location.

00:06:44.020 It depends on what the parameters are.

00:06:47.660 There was a whole debate last week about whether you would let your five-year-old, okay, so five-year-old into a grocery store, to go to a grocery store by herself to purchase things and then, you know, come back out and, I guess, meet you at the car.

00:07:00.120 My stance on that, you've probably seen this debate, is, you know, I have a five-year-old.

00:07:06.040 My stance on that is no.

00:07:07.460 I don't think that she's there yet.

00:07:09.720 And in general, I think five is too young.

00:07:12.540 Maybe some of you out there are like, no, five is not too young.

00:07:15.100 My five-year-old did that.

00:07:16.060 Okay.

00:07:16.740 That's fine.

00:07:17.540 I think in general, though, five is too young for that.

00:07:21.140 In a couple years, at the right place, at the right time, with the right parameters, I could see her totally being ready for that kind of thing.

00:07:30.000 I do think those kinds of exercises and independence are really important.

00:07:36.440 And as I said, I'm someone who has the propensity to, I want to err on the side of safety, but I really want my kids to be brave and they cannot be brave and totally safe at the exact same time.

00:07:50.600 There always has to be some relinquishing of guaranteed safety in order to exercise bravery.

00:07:58.900 And we want our kids to grow and be brave and to be courageous because it is a scary world.

00:08:05.980 And we don't want the first time that they have to exercise any kind of courage or independence to be when they're 18 or 19 years old.

00:08:15.880 We actually want them to deal with fear and deal with risk while they are in our protection, while we have more control, while we can kind of protect them from some of the consequences.

00:08:30.400 One example of this, it's a small example, but I think it's important because I observe this behavior on the playground.

00:08:36.300 And I'm sorry if you heard me say this last week, but it caused like so many messages.

00:08:41.880 I just want to say it like I see so many parents stalking their kids around the playground.

00:08:46.720 And that's just something that I won't do.

00:08:49.340 I will allow my kids, again, reasonably to fall or to get injured or to climb.

00:08:55.780 And me sitting there being like, I have no idea how she's going to get down from there.

00:09:00.940 And if they truly, truly need help, of course I'll help.

00:09:03.940 And I'm always watching.

00:09:04.780 I'm not scrolling on my phone.

00:09:06.020 I'm paying attention.

00:09:07.460 But I think that kind of thing is really important.

00:09:10.580 And I am surprised at the number of parents who say, no, I cannot allow even my five-year-old to go down the slide by themselves or to like run across the field by themselves because I'm scared of, you know, I'm scared they're going to get kidnapped or scared I'm going to be trafficked.

00:09:25.720 Look, I think a lot of us parents really have to think about our own anxiety and our own paranoia and our own fears and really check ourselves to see if we are being reasonable because there's reasonable fear, absolutely.

00:09:40.100 Or if we are being unreasonable and if we're actually being untrusting, like if we are actually creating anxiety in our kids because of our own anxiety.

00:09:50.920 So I certainly don't have that balance perfect, but I just thought the backlash to the video that I posted was really a fascinating look into how a lot of parents think.

00:10:01.760 And Brie and I were talking about this before and just like her thoughts on this.

00:10:06.660 And Brie, I know that you're not a mom yet, but you were saying that you just had some thoughts about the comments and the responses that people had to that.

00:10:15.860 Yeah, I kind of see, I mean, I definitely see both sides.

00:10:19.140 I see why people might be a little, maybe some people take offense to this word, but paranoid about the state of the world and seeing things that are happening.

00:10:28.240 To me, I'm like, I think you need to be really aware of like where you physically live and are because there are so many like suburbs and places where people live that are so much safer than people seem to think that they are.

00:10:44.160 Where if you're on a neighborhood playground, like it's just probably not going to happen.

00:10:49.860 And like you said, you shouldn't have your nose in your phone and not be paying attention.

00:10:54.200 But yeah, I think there generally is just the sense of like dread following everyone despite where they are.

00:11:00.820 If they're in a really safe neighborhood, they're still like there could be kidnappers around every corner.

00:11:05.240 And maybe we should all have our head on a swivel all the time.

00:11:08.440 But I also think it just gets a little bit much, you know?

00:11:12.180 Yeah.

00:11:12.740 And some of it is like a consequence of the fact that we live in a very divided country.

00:11:17.360 Some of it, this is controversial to say, is the product of multiculturalism very quickly being forced upon certain communities.

00:11:31.420 When demographics change, when languages change, when cultures change and people don't have time to get used to that.

00:11:37.680 They don't know their neighbors anymore.

00:11:39.240 They can't even share a language or a culture with their neighbors.

00:11:42.900 That's automatically going to make people distrusting.

00:11:45.720 That's not to say that they're assuming that the person who's not from here is a kidnapper.

00:11:50.440 It's just you're on edge a little bit more because we are not speaking the same language in any regard, literally or figuratively.

00:11:59.020 So I think that adds to a sense of distrust.

00:12:01.580 But even with that, as you said, a lot of our communities are statistically a lot safer.

00:12:06.920 And of course, there's always a chance that something bad will happen.

00:12:10.420 But I don't think that that's how we want to train our kids to live their lives, that something could always happen.

00:12:17.780 So don't even try.

00:12:19.240 Right.

00:12:20.160 Yeah, I agree.

00:12:21.200 And I will also say, though, I, when I was a kid, was like painfully shy.

00:12:25.900 I cried one time because my parents made me order my own food at a restaurant.

00:12:29.940 How old?

00:12:31.320 I don't know.

00:12:32.260 I was pretty young, probably maybe four or five.

00:12:35.240 Yeah.

00:12:35.480 Five, maybe.

00:12:36.000 And so I was like, it was painful for me to interact with other people.

00:12:41.800 And they really like forced me to have interactions with people, like respectful interactions with waiters and ordering things myself, things like that.

00:12:50.940 Like in the Chick-fil-A video, I don't think I ever went in somewhere by myself, but things like that.

00:12:54.980 And I am so much better for it.

00:12:58.000 Like, I know, you know, you can't attribute something to that directly, but I just feel like that really grew me as a kid.

00:13:05.940 Made you confident.

00:13:06.860 Yeah, it made me confident, made me more comfortable with strangers, which not in a bad way, but in a good way.

00:13:12.300 And so I just, I think that's necessary for some kids, you know?

00:13:16.060 I'm sure my parents, it was like the opposite.

00:13:18.520 It was probably like, stop.

00:13:19.940 Stop talking to that person.

00:13:22.060 Okay?

00:13:22.740 Stop.

00:13:23.420 Sometimes that's needed too, I guess.

00:13:25.180 Yes.

00:13:25.900 But I think that's good.

00:13:26.980 When I think about just my own life, even my adult life and doing what I do now, every new thing that I've done has, I've looked back and been like, oh, that one thing that I did that I was scared to do, that prepared me for this.

00:13:43.260 And so you want those like little steps out in faith.

00:13:48.060 Again, when you're under the protection of your parents, that's the best place to have that risk.

00:13:52.680 Okay, next we're going to talk about sleepovers, but let me pause.

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00:14:03.760 Only the second one.

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00:15:44.680 Okay, so this is another part of the debate that is going on online.

00:15:49.500 And we've probably talked about it before.

00:15:51.480 I've definitely talked about it on the show.

00:15:53.300 So sleepovers, whether or not parents should allow their kids to sleep over at friends' houses.

00:16:00.160 I don't think that this includes like sleeping over at grandparents' houses too.

00:16:04.320 I think we're just talking about sleeping over at their friends' houses.

00:16:08.600 And again, this is not specific to any age range.

00:16:12.480 I'm pretty sure that the conversation is about all kids.

00:16:15.300 Now, I did do sleepovers growing up like early.

00:16:19.760 I don't know about as young as kindergarten, but I feel like first, second grade,

00:16:24.300 I was definitely sleeping over at friends' houses and they would sleep over at my house.

00:16:29.640 And my parents' rule was if I went over to anyone's house, whether it was spending the night or not,

00:16:34.060 they had to know their parents.

00:16:35.800 Not just I talked to them once on the phone, but like really know them.

00:16:41.220 And so I think that's like a good boundary.

00:16:44.580 I would add on to that, like you should not only know the parents,

00:16:48.340 but if your kid is going over to a house, like at any point of the day,

00:16:51.720 you should also know their siblings.

00:16:53.420 You should know what access to technology they have and what they're going to be doing,

00:17:00.500 what their rules are, all kinds of things.

00:17:02.920 Like I do think it's really important for parents to know all of that before you allow your kid

00:17:06.940 into someone else's home, especially if there are other adults or like teenagers that are going

00:17:13.340 to be in a house.

00:17:15.160 My stance is different than my parents in that I say no to sleepovers.

00:17:22.120 I don't know if I can say, because, you know, again, my oldest is only five.

00:17:26.980 I don't know if I can say in no circumstances will I ever allow sleepovers,

00:17:33.380 but I do believe it's a good general rule, especially with the access to technology that

00:17:39.240 kids have today.

00:17:40.500 And I've talked to so many of you who said, even when we were growing up, 90s, 2000s,

00:17:45.240 that they might, not everyone endures trauma at a sleepover,

00:17:49.840 but very rarely do good things happen.

00:17:53.920 Like are good things talked about?

00:17:55.840 You are putting kids in a situation where they have no supervision for hours and are getting

00:18:04.720 no sleep.

00:18:06.420 And my parents always said nothing good happens after midnight.

00:18:10.060 And I think that is consistently proven to be true.

00:18:13.260 It just seems like a good boundary for me.

00:18:15.440 Even if when they're older, it's like, okay, we're, I'll pick you up at 11 seems better to

00:18:20.340 me than them going to bed at 3am talking about who knows what, and then being completely trashed

00:18:25.540 the next day.

00:18:27.220 It just doesn't seem conducive to like good behavior or like anything productive.

00:18:33.180 That's my stance.

00:18:34.620 Bree, however, has a different stance. 1.00

00:18:36.840 So let me, let me hear you're thinking about it.

00:18:39.780 Okay.

00:18:39.980 I, I'm going to preface this by saying, I don't currently have kids.

00:18:45.920 My mind might change once I do.

00:18:47.660 I'm like fully aware of that.

00:18:49.340 Yeah.

00:18:49.600 Um, and you know what?

00:18:50.800 It probably will the more I think about it, but currently the way that I think about it

00:18:55.940 is, uh, and maybe everyone approaches it this way from their perspective or the, from their

00:19:01.960 experience of going to sleepovers.

00:19:03.900 I, some of my favorite memories growing up with my friends were at sleepovers and I always

00:19:10.220 had the birthday party that was a sleepover and they were always so much fun.

00:19:14.560 Yeah.

00:19:15.160 I had experiences that were really wholesome and innocent when it comes to sleepovers where

00:19:19.720 it was just like hanging with my friends, watching movies, you know, I know that there are other

00:19:26.480 people who were exposed to really awful things at sleepovers. And I just saw a guy on X, I forgot

00:19:34.100 who it was, but he was saying he was exposed to porn for the first time at a sleepover. He was

00:19:38.180 really young and he's still dealing with boys. Yeah. And he said he's still as an adult, married

00:19:44.400 adult, he's still dealing with the effects of that. And that's horrifying. Like those are the

00:19:49.240 kinds of things that might make me change my mind about it. But that was 30 years ago and seeing

00:19:54.860 porn once at a sleepover, like really, really, the left an indelible mark.

00:20:00.580 Yeah. So I can imagine how much worse it is now where you can stumble upon it by accident now.

00:20:07.580 So, so I acknowledge all of that, but I just have really good experiences and I find that they were

00:20:13.380 really formative of growing relationships with other girls and, and making friends. And I just would

00:20:19.300 really be sad for my daughter to miss out on stuff like that. But yeah, maybe the risks outweigh the

00:20:26.840 rewards. I definitely can see that that that's a possibility. I'm just, I love sleepovers. I always

00:20:32.680 did. Yeah. And so I would have a hard time. Yeah. Not allowing that. Yes. I totally see what you mean

00:20:38.720 because I also have some good memories with that, but I also am like, I feel like most of the time I was

00:20:44.540 just so tired the next day and I never had anything traumatic happen either, but it's like, it's the

00:20:52.640 gossip. It's the like, you know, people being left out, the prank calls, the silly things like that,

00:21:00.560 that probably weren't like formative in a healthy way and wouldn't have happened if we had just like

00:21:05.720 been in our own homes. Like, I can't even think of anything specific, but I just don't have anything

00:21:11.920 that I can look back on and be like, yes, that was truly like beneficial and formative for me.

00:21:19.420 But again, I, I also can't say 100% if we have a family that we're super close to, we know them

00:21:28.360 really well. And my daughter and their daughter are best friends. We've gone on trips together.

00:21:34.760 We know each other. Mom and I have great communication. We know the rules. I can't say

00:21:40.680 no, absolutely never. Is that ever going to happen? I don't know for sure. Right now I am

00:21:47.160 saying that's a pretty good ground rule and I absolutely will not be doing that in like first

00:21:52.000 and second grade. It's kind of like even crazy to think about a little bit. Uh, but yeah, I think it

00:21:57.160 also, again, kind of going back to the independence conversation, it depends. It depends on the kids.

00:22:01.420 It depends on the maturity level. It depends on all kinds of different things, but yeah, I don't know

00:22:11.900 that anyone can say before they get there what they absolutely will or will not do. Yeah, that's

00:22:17.180 fair. Also, I was thinking about it just now and I feel like the sleepovers I remember the most were

00:22:23.620 the ones that were at my house, not the ones where I went to other people's houses. I guess

00:22:28.400 that's not a standard everyone can upkeep, but, um, but I was, there were some, I remember that I'm

00:22:34.040 like, I, my parents let me go to that person's house. I spoke to them like once. Um, but the ones

00:22:39.660 at my house were like a lot more special and maybe that's just because I felt safer there. I don't know,

00:22:44.960 but yes, I, I never really liked going to other people's houses and spending the night. Okay. I

00:22:50.720 remember like one time I spent, I'm still friends with her, so it's all good. But I will spend the

00:22:55.420 night with a friend in like sixth grade. This is another example of like not trauma, but also not

00:23:00.340 good. I watched signs. That'll get you. That'll get you. And I felt so bad because I was so scared

00:23:08.100 after that. And that would not have happened if I hadn't spent the night because again, older siblings

00:23:13.060 and everything, it was probably like, I was probably 11 years old and it was probably 10 o'clock. We

00:23:19.060 watched signs. Also, I remember watching mean girls for the first time at this person's house, which 1.00

00:23:23.720 great movie. Well, I can't say great, but it's great. Like in a lot of ways. Um, but that's really

00:23:32.580 like a teenager movie. I shouldn't have watched it for the first time at this person's house. And I

00:23:37.080 was like 10 or 11. Yeah, no, that's true. Definitely not at 10 or 11. Yeah. So if you're going to,

00:23:44.100 you got to make sure that the parents, you know, follow the rules and all of that. And now it's a

00:23:50.620 little bit different because kids at 12 years old have a cell phone and they can like text their

00:23:55.320 parents and things like that, which is a whole other issue. But yeah, things, things to think

00:24:02.620 about, things to think about. I think there are good risks and then like unnecessary risks. I think

00:24:08.440 it's Jordan Peterson that said, let your kids do dangerous things safely. And I think that's like

00:24:14.880 a pretty good rule of thumb of mom who is a mom of boys messaged me and said that someone told her

00:24:20.780 once that if they're going to die, stop them from doing it. But if they're going to break a bone,

00:24:27.400 leave them alone. And obviously that's different. That's like physical risk and not, you know,

00:24:32.840 emotional, sexual and all of that. But also like maybe a good, a good rule of thumb in some ways.

00:24:41.780 Yeah. Okay. Well, that concludes the conversation on that. Y'all can let us know what you think. I'm

00:24:47.320 sure that you will have lots of opinions out there, a lot of differing opinions about what kind of risk

00:24:54.640 is right for our kids. I'll tell you, one thing that I will not risk for my kids is their theology

00:25:03.460 and their spiritual state. Now, obviously there is only so much control we can have over this as parents.

00:25:10.500 God is sovereign. He is in control of their spiritual destiny and he will sanctify them through

00:25:17.980 the power of their Holy Spirit, but of, of his Holy Spirit. But, uh, we as parents are charged with

00:25:27.220 the stewardship of their heart and mind. We are called to raise our children in the Lord, to teach

00:25:33.200 them what is good and right and true. And that means that we have to, as far as we can ensure that

00:25:41.580 they have a good theological foundation, a good apologetics foundation. And so the education that

00:25:47.680 they get at home, at school, at church really matters. And we want to make sure that the training

00:25:53.880 that they are receiving is in alignment with God's word. How gracious is God that he has given so much

00:25:59.660 clarity and such a good foundation in his word. And I am very troubled by training that I have now seen

00:26:08.000 come out of Andy Stanley's very large and influential church in Atlanta, Georgia, North Point Community

00:26:14.580 Church. Now we have talked before about Andy Stanley's very problematic and unbiblical stance 0.56

00:26:21.920 on homosexuality and so-called gender identity. We will link the past episode on that. We'll get into

00:26:28.800 some past context in just a minute, but you can go back and watch that episode if you are multiple

00:26:35.560 episodes, if you want specifically what I'm talking about. But this training that they are now

00:26:41.260 implementing that they are now showing to their youth leaders at their church called Transit is very

00:26:48.340 troubling to me because it uses words that sound good while ultimately not affirming what scripture

00:26:57.540 actually says about LGBTQ identity. So these training videos for middle school small group leaders

00:27:08.500 recently were published online. They were, I guess, supposed to be private and they have now

00:27:14.900 leaked. It seems to instruct the leaders to, I don't know if I would say affirm so-called gender

00:27:24.120 identity, but at the very least ignore statements of self-declared transgender status of children and

00:27:34.660 teenagers in order to make the church more comfortable for kids who are struggling with gender deception.

00:27:44.080 Now, gender deception is the terminology I use because I don't think gender dysphoria is always the right 1.00

00:27:51.980 terminology, but the language they use I find to be very purposely ambiguous and that is why it's so

00:28:00.800 disturbing. Really important for us to know what's going on and these very large evangelical churches. 1.00

00:28:06.080 So I'll get into the details in just a second. Let me go ahead and pause and tell you about our second

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00:29:50.040 All right. The 2025 leader training videos were intended for small group leaders with transit.

00:29:57.220 Transit is the middle school ministry. So sixth to eighth graders at North Point Community Church,

00:30:01.940 where Andy Stanley is the senior pastor. So the transit website says this about the middle school years.

00:30:07.420 We know that middle school can be complicated. Students are going up fast and need a place where

00:30:11.440 they can learn how God sees them. And remember that last line there, learn how God sees them in light

00:30:20.680 of what we are about to read about this instruction, these instruction videos meant for these small group

00:30:27.300 leaders. So the training videos included transit director Britt Kitchen instructing small group leaders

00:30:33.900 on how to handle issues related to their upcoming teaching series on sexuality. The emphasis of

00:30:40.540 the training in these videos is how leaders can be a safe place for all students. So let me just stop

00:30:48.300 there. First, I think it is great that any church is taking matters of sexuality and identity seriously,

00:30:56.580 that they're not just brushing it under the rug, that they're not just hoping that, okay,

00:31:01.140 maybe parents and students will kind of deduce what God thinks about these things from

00:31:05.100 us teaching through scripture, but we don't really want to talk about it because it's controversial.

00:31:12.100 I think churches should be addressing these things head on. It is true that middle school

00:31:18.540 is a very complicated time. There's a lot going on in each individual life in a person's body.

00:31:25.760 These are very formative years. And now more than ever, kids do have questions about sexuality and

00:31:32.660 gender and identity and all of these things. And so, so far, if this were it, if we found out that,

00:31:40.980 okay, North Point is addressing this issue from a biblical perspective, they're not ignoring it,

00:31:46.080 I would be applauding and say yes and amen. But I will give them credit simply for addressing it,

00:31:52.760 for saying this is an important issue, for recognizing that and recognizing that the

00:31:57.240 church needs to have a voice in it. However, how they go about this, I really, really disagree with,

00:32:03.300 at least as I'm watching these training videos and also in light of what Andy Stanley has said

00:32:07.800 in the past. So, Kitchen begins these videos by giving three main principles that they try to

00:32:12.740 emphasize as they teach middle schoolers about topics related to sexuality. One, honor God with your

00:32:17.960 body. Two, don't be mastered by anything. And three, don't sexualize any relationship 0.83

00:32:23.200 outside of marriage. Now, I agree with all three of those things. I agree with that. Those all are

00:32:31.320 supported by scripture. Now, his explanation of why we should honor these three principles, why we

00:32:38.140 shouldn't, for example, sexualize relationships outside of marriage, I think is weak because it makes it

00:32:43.680 sound very subjective, like this is a personal interpretation and not objectively what the

00:32:48.100 Bible says. He says, quote, we simply don't think it's wise based on the teachings of Jesus. We don't

00:32:52.680 think it's wise to make any relationship sexual in nature until you are married, that no relationship

00:32:57.260 should cross the boundary for your own physical, spiritual, and mental health. Well, yes, it's not

00:33:01.840 wise because Jesus clearly articulates that when he defines marriage in Matthew 19, 4 through 5, for

00:33:07.800 example. We read throughout scripture, especially in the epistles to the church in Corinth, to the

00:33:15.180 Christians there, that we are to honor our body and flee from sexual immorality. We see that throughout

00:33:21.760 scripture. We see that model of holy sexuality is between one man and one woman in the context of 0.67

00:33:27.740 marriage. It's not simply that we don't think it's wise based on our interpretation of what Jesus said.

00:33:33.400 The training video that then moves on to the question of same-sex attraction and of so-called

00:33:40.080 gender dysphoria with children and young teenagers emphasizing that they want their church and

00:33:45.040 ministry to be, quote, the safest place for students to talk about anything. Now, I don't disagree with

00:33:54.720 that one statement. Again, I do want the church to be a refuge for people with questions, for people with

00:33:59.860 struggles. I want people who are in sin, who are tempted, who are struggling, who are confused,

00:34:05.740 to be able to come to the church, to talk to Christians, for Christians to be ready and willing

00:34:11.540 to embrace that person, to love that person, to care for that person, to point that person to Jesus

00:34:17.200 and point that person to the truth lovingly, but totally unapologetically. However, I'm not sure that

00:34:24.120 that is the same thing that they are saying because in the entirety of this 20-minute video that was

00:34:32.540 leaked, this is part of the training regimen, Brit never addresses the Bible or any kind of biblical

00:34:40.260 support for these opinions, for these perspectives that he is putting forth. So what do you mean by this?

00:34:48.920 Now, maybe you could say, well, he gets to that later, or this is not the time for that. I just

00:34:55.460 don't know. We are talking about training videos for church leaders. I think the most important

00:35:01.660 question that a church leader would have is, what does the Bible say about this? And yet, at least in

00:35:06.580 this video, we just don't see that. So in this video that's circulating on Acts, he says, when he's

00:35:14.560 addressing gender dysphoria, he says, now, gender dysphoria, this is a weird term. We don't hear this

00:35:19.520 a lot. Basically, this is the clinical term for anyone who is unsure about their gender. Well, that's 1.00

00:35:27.280 not true. He says, dysphoria is the opposite of euphoria. Euphoria is joy, happiness, contentment,

00:35:33.020 excitement. Gender dysphoria is like they're not comfortable. They don't have joy over it. They're not 0.95

00:35:38.600 sure where they land. How, I mean, how many people honestly have joy over their gender? Not everyone has

00:35:44.100 joy over their gender. There may be a lot of different instances where someone would say,

00:35:47.980 gosh, it'd be a lot easier if I were the opposite sex, or this is a really hard thing about being a

00:35:52.360 man or a woman or whatever, but it is simply an acceptance of who we are, how God made us.

00:36:01.120 And so even putting this dichotomy up there, euphoria or dysphoria, I think causes a lot of

00:36:06.400 confusion because you might have a kid out there that's like, well, I don't feel euphoric about being a

00:36:10.600 girl or boy. Especially in middle school, things are so complicated and weird and confusing to tell

00:36:16.060 a person that the opposite of having this disorder is euphoria. I mean, that automatically is going to

00:36:24.420 make kids wonder, well, what am I categorized as? If I'm not euphoric, then am I really transgender?

00:36:31.540 But this is not the definition of gender dysphoria, by the way. According to the Diagnostic

00:36:36.020 and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, the DSM-5, gender dysphoria is defined as a marked

00:36:42.460 incongruence between one experienced and expressed gender and the gender, this is, you know, liberal

00:36:48.300 language assigned at birth, accompanied by significant distress or impairment in social, occupational,

00:36:54.380 and other important areas of functioning. And here's what's important in this. The adjectives that

00:36:59.720 are used to describe true gender dysphoria are persistent and insistent and consistent, okay?

00:37:06.020 It's not just feeling some distress or some disappointment or incongruence. It was originally

00:37:12.700 seen only in boys, a tiny, tiny, tiny percentage of the population. You saw it at a very young age,

00:37:19.180 boys who felt distress about being a boy and wanting to look like a girl, dress like a girl, act like a

00:37:27.200 girl. And then over 80% of those boys would go through puberty and those feelings of distress would end.

00:37:32.880 There's also like a link of trauma there. And so what we are seeing now, this social contagion,

00:37:39.560 as Abigail Schreier and other scholars have noted, is not gender dysphoria. It is people trying to

00:37:48.900 identify as the opposite sex, but they don't have the diagnosis of gender dysphoria. They might have

00:37:55.640 gone through trauma themselves. That's typical in girls. They might be addicted to a dark form of 1.00

00:38:00.540 pornography. That's typical in boys, but it is not some innate mental disorder here. And actually,

00:38:06.760 if you're not understanding that and explaining that, you're not going to be able to equip church

00:38:10.520 leaders to be able to address it head on. So even just defining the terms, there's a problem there.

00:38:16.060 Here's thought one.

00:38:17.540 The terms transgender or non-binary are some sample terms that an adult might use to describe who they

00:38:24.340 are if they're trying to figure out their gender. Our goal in these situations is to best support the

00:38:29.780 student and the family.

00:38:31.560 Okay. I have so many problems with just the language there. That is affirming progressive language.

00:38:39.920 Transgender, non-binary are the terms that an adult might use if they're trying to figure out their

00:38:47.080 gender. Instead of simply clearly affirming that your gender is not something that you can figure

00:38:52.640 out, but it is something that was fixed at the moment of conception, that your unique DNA was either

00:39:02.980 male or female, that God made you that way in his image. Genesis 127, that is the clear reality.

00:39:10.280 Now, they might be deceived. They might be confused, but they are not genuinely trying to figure out

00:39:16.260 who they are. Who they are has already been defined by God, and it is our job to lovingly and persistently

00:39:23.860 affirm that reality. Now, at one point in this video, he also says that transgender people are a very small 0.75

00:39:30.200 part of the population and that leaders probably won't encounter someone who is truly transgender. But he then

00:39:36.060 says, this is strangely contradictory, over the years, we've gotten to know several families who have dealt with

00:39:42.040 so-called gender dysphoria. So I'm not really sure there. And actually, if you look at the statistics,

00:39:48.040 according to CDC data, 18 to 24-year-olds identifying as transgender has gone from 0.59%, okay, in 2014,

00:39:58.940 that's 0.59, okay, to 3.08% in 2023. So quintupled in the last decade. Yes, it's still a small percentage,

00:40:08.920 but still quintupled. And we know that I think according to Pew Research, I think it's Pew Research

00:40:16.580 that 20% of Gen Z identifies as LGBTQ, okay? So something is going on here. It's not just,

00:40:25.280 oh, this is just a natural evolution here. It certainly seems like this is a phenomenon that

00:40:33.260 that is being socially driven. Then Kitchen tells the story of a family whose journey with so-called

00:40:40.180 gender dysphoria began when their student was five years old. I don't know why he says student 0.95

00:40:47.100 instead of child, but that's the choice in language that he uses. Here's that too.

00:40:51.520 Now, through the years, we've gotten to know several families. There's one family in particular

00:40:55.500 that's very helpful for me. Their journey first started when their student was five years old.

00:41:01.140 This family first started going to a child psychologist and seeing a medical specialist.

00:41:06.340 Then over time, they started using different pronouns at home, but only at home. They were

00:41:10.380 not using these pronouns in school. They weren't even asking an extended family to use those pronouns

00:41:15.100 yet. They weren't asking friends to do it yet. Then a big step was to pick a new name from the

00:41:21.080 other gender so they could start using that. Okay. Then he goes on to say that the parents did end up

00:41:28.920 asking other people to use the preferred pronouns. We don't actually know the real gender of this

00:41:33.360 child. The parents supported the child pursuing puberty blockers, knowing that surgery will happen

00:41:43.460 later. He said this is the typical kind of, these are the typical steps that are taken,

00:41:47.640 and that parents asked the school and others to use the names and the pronouns, and that this

00:41:55.420 particular family, this is right, Brie, that this particular family tried to get other people to

00:42:03.380 affirm their child's gender at the church and they wouldn't, or is that a different story?

00:42:08.840 That's this story. I think that's SOT 3.

00:42:11.460 Okay. Okay. Let's just watch the SOT then. Okay. Here's SOT 3.

00:42:14.820 Their local church said, nah, because we've known him since he was a little boy, we're not going to

00:42:20.440 start saying her. So not here, not at our church. We've known you too long to be able to do that.

00:42:27.100 And so everywhere this child went in life, they were saying you were one thing, but only at church

00:42:31.420 you had to pretend to be something else. And they had to leave that church, and they finally came here,

00:42:36.520 started to talk to our care ministry staff, and we realized, oh my goodness, we cannot be the last

00:42:41.320 place. A student feels comfortable. Oh my goodness. Okay. So we did find out that this

00:42:46.820 is actually a boy that trying to identify as a girl. And he is saying that it was wrong that their

00:42:53.700 local church would not affirm this child in being the opposite sex, would not call this child by

00:42:59.740 pronouns that do not correlate with his God-given biological reality. And this person who is the head

00:43:06.920 middle school ministry at North Point Church in Atlanta, led by Andy Stanley, is saying that that

00:43:14.600 was wrong. That that church was not a safe place. That that person, that that child had to pretend

00:43:21.880 to be something else. No, identifying as a girl was pretending to be something else. And that church 0.66

00:43:29.100 in love was affirming reality. And by the way, other kids matter too. Forcing children,

00:43:35.480 all of these five-year-old friends who knew this child as a boy to then call this child a girl and

00:43:43.000 say, no, this friend who I've known since preschool ministry, I now have to say as a girl, that is

00:43:49.320 sowing confusion in those kids. That is so damaging to their understanding of God and themselves and

00:43:56.560 others in reality and morality. Of course, that church is trying to shepherd the hearts and the minds

00:44:03.100 and the souls of everyone in that church, including the children. And so, yes, the right and the loving

00:44:09.660 thing to do would be to say, look, we will walk with you through this, but we will not tell a lie.

00:44:16.620 We're not going to tell a lie. And the fact that Andy Stanley's church is saying that that church did

00:44:22.200 something wrong and the right thing is for, I assume, reading between the lines for a church to

00:44:28.260 use opposite sex pronouns for a child who is deceived about their gender. It's insane. That

00:44:34.720 is a radically progressive position. I just want you to know where North Point is on this. All right?

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00:46:04.440 So he says, we cannot be the last place a student feels comfortable. Look, our primary concern as

00:46:16.680 Christians is not whether someone feels comfortable. Yes, I want that. I want people who are stuck in sin 1.00

00:46:25.440 or in some kind of mode of deception to feel confident walking into a church. But if they are deceived,

00:46:33.480 if they are stuck in sin, then it will be uncomfortable to walk into the light. If we've

00:46:41.520 been asleep and someone walks in and turns the light on, is that comfortable? No, it's not comfortable,

00:46:47.740 but at times it's necessary. Some things that are necessary are uncomfortable. And we have to recognize

00:46:56.340 that we see that acutely in the ministry of Jesus. How many people did Jesus make uncomfortable? His own

00:47:03.620 disciples were made uncomfortable by the difficult truths that he preached. Do we see in the ministry

00:47:09.220 of Jesus that he was really concerned at all with making people comfortable? Yes, healing people. Yes,

00:47:16.300 meeting their needs. But it wasn't about comfort. It was about loving them, displaying the power of God.

00:47:23.940 But we see over and over again that Jesus makes things really awkward sometimes by saying things

00:47:30.120 that he knows no one wants to hear, but they need to hear. So this is not modeling ministry after Jesus.

00:47:37.860 Kitchen goes on to describe how this whole process of transing a child can take years. And he uses

00:47:44.620 these progressive euphemisms like upper surgeries and bottom surgeries. Sop 4.

00:47:50.200 There's upper surgeries and bottom surgeries. And many people can go through the upper surgery,

00:47:56.200 but the bottom surgeries are extremely invasive and sometimes don't even work. And so it may not even

00:48:02.600 happen or be possibility for every person who wants to make this change. So knowing how long this journey

00:48:09.780 really is, it's important that we as staff, as small group leaders, care for these students knowing

00:48:16.200 this is not going to be a flip of the switch and be taken care of

00:48:20.200 next week. This isn't going to be something that is turned around

00:48:24.360 in just a few days. This is going to be a five or six year process

00:48:28.300 for the student if, if they stick with it.

00:48:32.200 And the best part is, that's exactly what our strategy is already

00:48:36.160 made to do, to track along for multiple years with the students.

00:48:39.920 Okay. What do you think he's trying to say, Brie?

00:48:44.640 He's trying to say that what, what got me here was the language almost seems like he's trying,

00:48:52.560 like it comes like, it comes off like it might be saying the journey takes a long time for them

00:48:58.280 to come back to who they actually are, to like transition back.

00:49:02.140 Okay. That's a charitable reading.

00:49:03.600 Yes. But I, but I don't think that's what he's saying. I think what he's saying is,

00:49:08.660 yes, it takes a long time to get to the point of surgery and to get to the point of actually

00:49:12.620 trying to physically transition. And we need to walk with, with students all the way through that.

00:49:18.160 I think he's saying, slow your roll. Don't feel so much urgency to change them because they probably

00:49:26.340 won't even be castrated for a few years. So you don't need to worry about that right now.

00:49:32.440 Because that process takes a long time anyway. Now, charitably, he might be saying we might be

00:49:38.720 able to stop them from doing that. And we have time before that happens. But again, why should

00:49:44.300 we have to read between the lines, especially since this is supposed to be an internal video,

00:49:49.080 you should be saying, look, we do not want someone mutilating their body because we know God created

00:49:55.680 their body, loves their body. Christianity teaches that the body is good, that Jesus came here bodily,

00:50:02.440 that we will be raised in the body. Wow, the body matters so much. So we want to stop that. And

00:50:08.400 here's how we do that. But it's not. It's like, okay, this might not happen for a long time.

00:50:13.340 Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But also the language of like, yeah, some of these bottom surgeries don't even

00:50:21.920 work. So some people won't even be able to succeed in what they're trying to do. It's the way he's

00:50:29.340 talking about it is like, oh, that's such a shame that they won't get to fully complete their

00:50:33.640 transition. And I know, again, I'm reading in between the lines too. But they make it that you

00:50:39.280 have to. Yeah. Yeah. It's ambiguous on purpose. And I do think they do that on purpose so that

00:50:46.000 they can point to a video like this and be like, that's not what we said. Okay, well, tell me

00:50:50.680 exactly what you believe then. Tell me. Because this is not clear. And I bet that we are older and

00:50:57.340 probably more mature than most of the middle school leaders, small group, the small group leaders

00:51:03.640 there. And if we are like trying to understand what you're saying, then they will too. And I know

00:51:11.360 Andy Stanley knows this. He's a good communicator. Clarity is a gift. Confusion is a curse. And

00:51:18.060 there's a lot of confusion in these videos that I think will be a curse to the church and to the

00:51:23.180 people that they are trying to serve. At one point in the training, Kitchen gives a little sample

00:51:29.600 script. When talking to a student who might identify as gay, that is all about affirming the

00:51:36.980 student being thankful that they told the youth leader and nothing about what the Bible says about

00:51:41.680 any of this. So affirming, they don't necessarily say in this video that they should affirm homosexuality

00:51:48.380 as good, right? No, not explicitly. Just affirming like... Like you're so brave for telling me.

00:51:56.420 Thank you so much. He says... There's a direct quote in here. He says, we need to applaud them

00:52:00.580 for being willing to tell us. And so there isn't... He's not explicitly saying we should affirm them

00:52:09.260 being gay or identifying as gay. But there's not the opposite either. Yeah. And I agree there is a time 0.82

00:52:16.080 and a place to say certain things. And when someone opens up to you and is very vulnerable to you right

00:52:22.460 the way, it's probably not the time and the place to open up Romans 1. But there is a time and a place

00:52:28.980 for it. Like at some point, there is a time and a place. And if I'm a leader, I'm wondering when that

00:52:34.260 is. So like, when can I point people to Jesus? Like, when can I point people to the truth?

00:52:39.700 Like, are we trying... It seems like a whole strategy to outnice God here. We're all nicer than God.

00:52:44.900 We're apologizing for his word. We already know that Andy Stanley calls Romans 1 and 1 Corinthians 6,

00:52:50.100 nine. These clobber verses that, you know, I guess, I don't know, he believes don't carry as much

00:52:56.560 weight. He has also said explicitly that homosexuality is a different kind of sin than

00:53:02.400 other sins, which is absolutely unbiblical and puts a yoke and a burden on people struggling with

00:53:07.900 same-sex attraction that the gospel that Jesus does not put on them. And so we already know that's

00:53:13.960 completely messed up. So this is where all of that confusion is coming from. Kitchen closes this

00:53:18.980 video with a story about a middle school student who had been struggling with gender confusion

00:53:22.420 and identity while attending a summer camp with their ministry. Kitchen said that this

00:53:26.440 child was hearing about the message of Jesus and salvation. But Kitchen claimed the small group

00:53:32.180 leader was too focused on the gender confusion and wasn't comfortable having a gospel conversation.

00:53:37.040 But luckily, one of their staff members intervened to point to Jesus and pray with the child.

00:53:41.880 God, I don't know if I'm your son or daughter, but I know I'm your child's. Okay, so that's how it

00:53:49.460 ends. I don't think it's, of course, wrong to point a child to Jesus who is in the midst of their

00:53:56.000 confusion. That is the most important thing. The most important thing that they go from unbelief to

00:54:00.660 belief. And we have to trust that Jesus will sanctify them after that through all kinds of means.

00:54:06.860 But I don't know if that's the conclusion. That should be the conclusion of this video. That still

00:54:12.680 leaves so many questions, right? Again, when is the right time to say the clear truth of what Jesus

00:54:19.220 said in Matthew 19, 4 through 5? When is the right time to tell people that Genesis 1 is really clear

00:54:26.880 and God tells us this because he loves us and he knows our body and he didn't make a mistake when

00:54:34.640 he made us? Like, when is the right time to talk about the Bible at church?

00:54:40.620 Yeah. Not mentioned in this training.

00:54:43.740 At least in this particular.

00:54:45.420 Yeah. In this 20-minute training.

00:54:47.100 In this 20-minute training. And that is the concern. That is also my concern with Andy Stanley's

00:54:53.400 messages in the past is that I think he wants to let God off the hook. He wants to let the Bible

00:54:58.640 off the hook and I think he thinks he can give a better message and a more hopeful message to people

00:55:05.800 who identify as LGBTQ than God can. And that is self-idolatry. And I worry about those being 1.00

00:55:13.960 affected by this ministry. Yes, I think the church can do a better job of addressing this head-on.

00:55:19.300 Yes, I think that the church should be training their leaders to have these conversations,

00:55:24.760 but it's got to be Christ at the center. It's got to be the truth at the center.

00:55:29.620 Please go back and listen to or watch my conversation with Laura Perry Smolt, an amazing

00:55:35.280 woman who believed for years that she was in the wrong body. She believed it really from a young

00:55:40.900 age and she embraced this newfound identity as an adult. A man named Jake, she had a double

00:55:47.520 mastectomy. She had a hysterectomy. She wanted to be affirmed in this way. She was affirmed by many

00:55:53.700 people in her life. The people she was never affirmed by, the people who never called her

00:55:58.340 Jake, who never called her he, him pronouns, were her Christian parents and their fellow congregants

00:56:04.480 at their Christian conservative church in Oklahoma. And she understandably was uncomfortable going

00:56:11.720 there. She was uncomfortable talking to her parents because they didn't affirm her. And yet they loved

00:56:17.180 her. They never stopped reaching out. They never stopped talking to her. They never stopped caring.

00:56:22.680 And in fact, it was her mom asking Laura to transcribe some Bible study notes for her that

00:56:31.520 Laura started thinking about the Bible verses that she was writing. And the Lord used his word

00:56:38.480 to soften her heart. She started going to church, started going to Bible study. She was not affirmed

00:56:45.320 in her identity as Jake. These people knew that this was a woman made in the image of God named

00:56:49.360 Laura. And even though it made her uncomfortable, it was their truth telling while also loving them

00:56:55.580 that God used to change her heart and embrace who she really is as a woman. And now she is a woman who

00:57:02.340 is one of the most, I think, spirit-filled and articulate evangelists out there who is just so

00:57:08.600 beautiful and gentle and is now married to a man. And it's just an incredible testimony of God's

00:57:15.000 redemption. But God didn't use compromise to lead her to himself. He used courage. And what this

00:57:24.700 training seems to be promoting is compromise and cowardice rather than the courage that we get from

00:57:31.260 God's word. The definition of gender and marriage, again, this alliteration we've been using for six

00:57:37.400 years at this point, is rooted in creation. It's reiterated throughout scripture. It's repeated by

00:57:43.200 Jesus himself. It is representative of Christ in the church, Ephesians 5, and therefore it is

00:57:48.700 reflective of the gospel. The Bible starts with the marriage between a man and a woman, ends with a

00:57:54.220 marriage between Christ, the bridegroom, and the church, the bride. These are specific ginger 0.99

00:58:00.460 designations that not only have significance in the physical world, but in the spiritual and the

00:58:04.940 eternal. And we do not have the option as Christians of messing with that. It's a core tenet of

00:58:10.540 Christianity. When we get that wrong, we end up getting everything else wrong too. Once you start

00:58:14.940 compromising on Genesis 127, you eventually compromise on John 14 6. It always happens. So

00:58:21.360 let's pray for repentance from some of the people in this church. Let's pray that the Holy Spirit will

00:58:27.640 help those who are hearing this confusion, abibing this confusion at church, to be discerning and to be

00:58:34.100 courageous and to stand up. All right, we've got a little bit more. Let me pause and tell you about our

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01:00:19.280 All right, let's just talk, Brie, really quickly as our end segment. We've got a lot of people

01:00:24.660 who are upset by a post on X by the Trump administration. Okay, there's a, is it called

01:00:33.180 Ghibli? Ghibli? I don't know, actually. Ghibli or Ghibli? I don't know. Ghibli? We think it's

01:00:40.580 Ghibli? Okay. So, and it is, I don't know, a form of anime? Yes. Which I am spiritually and morally

01:00:49.540 opposed to. Spiritually and morally. Yes. I think that it is like, it can be, can be YouTube,

01:00:56.880 can be a gateway to all kinds of degeneracy, including gender confusion and promiscuity, 1.00

01:01:03.120 the themes that are in it. I think sometimes they're very dark and demonic. You can at me

01:01:06.860 all you want to. I will stand by it. But this is, seems to be kind of like a cute form of it. I don't

01:01:13.300 know where it comes from. I guess it's Japanese, but they're cartoons of like Grok on X. If you say,

01:01:20.960 turn this picture into a Ghibli, whatever, it will do that for you. And it's just a style of animation.

01:01:29.760 Yeah. It's a very, they're very popular movies that I think stem from one, one guy. I think he

01:01:35.260 made Spirited Away, if people know that movie. Yes. So I, in my opinion, it's a prettier animation

01:01:42.400 style of anime. I think most anime is pretty ugly, but yeah. But yeah. Yeah. Some of them are pretty

01:01:48.780 cute. I agree. It's cuter. It's like less harsh, rounded features. Okay. So the White House

01:01:54.760 capitalized on this trend and they quote posted a picture of this woman being deported, crying in

01:02:06.040 handcuffs with this ICE officer in this Ghibli style. And this is a quote post of a post that

01:02:15.420 says, Virginia Basora Gonzalez, a previously deported alien felon convicted of fentanyl trafficking,

01:02:21.360 was arrested by ICE in Philadelphia after illegally reentering the U.S. She wept when taken into

01:02:28.660 custody. All right. A lot of people, even on the right, said this is cruel. This is casual cruelty.

01:02:36.140 This is fascism. My response was, okay, I can see how the argument that it's unnecessary and that it

01:02:46.720 might be counterproductive because you are making her look like a sympathetic character. Because

01:02:54.260 she's a woman. She's crying. You've got this stone cold ICE agent that's arresting her. We don't want 0.96

01:03:00.000 people to feel sympathy for fentanyl dealers. And making this into a cartoon that's like making fun

01:03:06.240 of it will evoke sympathy, whether it should or not. It's going to evoke sympathy from people, even from

01:03:12.820 the like staunchest Republicans. They're going to be like, oh, there's something that like doesn't

01:03:17.900 feel right about that. And I get that. I don't buy the argument that, oh, my gosh, this is so cruel

01:03:25.680 because this person was a fentanyl dealer. She is likely responsible for the deaths of thousands of

01:03:32.280 people, including teenagers, accidental deaths, people who thought that they were taking one medication.

01:03:38.720 It was laced with fentanyl. Obviously, some people are making those choices and that's not a good

01:03:42.580 choice. But like this person literally like got fat off of the spoils of America, was here illegally 0.99

01:03:54.480 and was killing thousands of Americans. Like there is a real like she should get the death penalty 1.00

01:04:01.140 to me. And we're talking about, oh, my gosh, it's so cruel to make a cartoon out of her. All of your ire. 1.00

01:04:08.180 All of your ire should be directed toward her and the victims that she had. That's that's my take.

01:04:15.280 What do you think, Bree? I I feel a little bit differently about this one than I did the previous

01:04:24.140 ones that they've posted, which we might get into the White House account. Not Ghibli, but just kind

01:04:31.320 of like like the other like kind of closing time. That was my favorite one. That was great. Also

01:04:38.420 deportation ASMR. I thought that was so funny. So funny. And I think those speak more to like those of us

01:04:47.600 who are like, finally. Yeah. The sounds of deportation do sound nice after all that we've dealt with.

01:04:53.720 We're literally talking about murderers and rapists and pedophiles who are here illegally being 1.00

01:04:58.640 deported. There's nothing sad about that. No. And so those ones I'm like, I fully support posts like 0.94

01:05:05.320 that because they're funny. This one, I tend to agree that I think just the style itself evokes more

01:05:11.740 sympathy from people who are not going to do the research and look at who this person was. They're

01:05:16.080 just going to see the photo and then the cartoon and they're going to be like, wow, that's really cruel.

01:05:20.100 And that's all that's going to be reposted on Instagram where all of the liberal wine moms are. 1.00

01:05:24.920 Yeah. And what a joke this administration is that they're posting, you know, they're mocking this

01:05:29.460 woman without looking into it. And so I see how there could be some harm done to the narrative

01:05:35.300 when they post something like this. I see where they're coming from. They were trying to do the

01:05:39.860 same thing that they did with the ASMR video where it's just like a very online thing that a lot of

01:05:46.640 people did enjoy and think was funny. But yeah, I think this one, the reaction is just a little bit

01:05:50.820 different, I think. Now, Bethany Mandel had a take, which I thought was interesting.

01:05:56.240 And I still don't know if it was the right strategic move, but she said all of these messages that

01:06:01.200 they're putting out aren't for us. They are to their deterrence. They're to deter people like her

01:06:08.480 who want to come over here, get rich off of selling fentanyl, dealing fentanyl here,

01:06:13.620 or who want to come here illegally at all, but especially the criminals to say,

01:06:18.120 like, we don't give a rat's patootie about you, like nothing. We don't care about you at all. 0.68

01:06:24.940 Like, not only are we going to deport you, we're going to make fun of you when we deport you.

01:06:29.080 So don't even try because we're serious. That is the exact opposite of what Biden did,

01:06:35.140 which was allow people in who should not be here, refuse to deport people who were rapists,

01:06:44.480 who were assaulters. And that message was also conveyed to people who shouldn't be here and said,

01:06:51.360 OK, great. It's my time to come. And the Trump administration is communicating the opposite.

01:06:56.360 Like, yeah, we're cruel toward you and we will continue to be cruel toward you and we will laugh 0.98

01:07:01.600 at your tears because you're killing Americans and you're not allowed to be here. 0.97

01:07:06.780 Also, the one of this wasn't a meme necessarily, but Kristi Noem in front of prison cells in El

01:07:13.820 Salvador. She went to that big prison. I thought that that was a little odd myself.

01:07:17.900 Well, I think that's a good example of them being like, this is the kind of thing that we're going

01:07:24.540 to implement if you guys come here. Like, that's the kind of post that if I were thinking about

01:07:29.600 illegally immigrating, I would be like, oh, rather than like this cartoon.

01:07:35.120 Yeah. So I would see maybe that being the goal of posts like that.

01:07:40.100 I don't know. I don't know how much this like cartoon animation will deter people trying to

01:07:45.060 traffic fentanyl in. Yeah. But I see that maybe that's what they're trying to do.

01:07:50.700 Yeah. It's a little tough because the Biden administration granted asylum to people that

01:07:55.840 they probably shouldn't have. And Trump is deporting some of those people. And now the narrative

01:08:00.940 is he's deporting asylum seekers and people who have legal protections here. The problem is they

01:08:06.860 shouldn't have been here. Like there's this guy. He had two crowns tattooed on him, which is a symbol

01:08:13.260 of Trinidad, a Venezuelan gang. He's from that area of Venezuela. His previous ICE proceedings said,

01:08:20.020 yeah, we believe that he's a part of that gang. And yet he applied for asylum in the midst of all of that

01:08:24.980 and got asylum in the Biden administration. And now the Trump administration is like,

01:08:30.480 no, you're deported. And now the narrative is, well, he's deporting these genuine asylum seekers

01:08:36.720 who are just like good people. Well, it's a little more complicated than that. And I'm not saying that

01:08:42.260 they're doing everything perfectly and you shouldn't deport people who are here illegally 1.00

01:08:47.420 and like are doing nothing wrong. But at the same time, yeah, I want them to give a second look

01:08:54.460 at everyone that Biden allowed in, even legally. Yes. I want you to give a second look at that.

01:09:00.160 Of course. So, I mean, people forget about Lake and Riley and Kate Steinle so quick.

01:09:05.540 Don't be deterred by toxic empathy. Have compassion for people as made in the image of God. Yes.

01:09:10.900 Read my immigration chapter of toxic empathy because your good, your well-intentioned compassion 0.76

01:09:16.780 will be leveraged against what is good, right, and true for this country. And so this is not about

01:09:24.620 being anti-compassion. That is making sure that you are not whipped up emotionally, manipulated,

01:09:29.700 and dissaporting policies that are not good. All right. That's all we got time for today. We will be

01:09:34.140 back here tomorrow.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - April 01, 2025

Ep 1164 ｜ Andy Stanley’s New Trans Training & Should Kids Grocery Shop Alone？

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