Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1179 ｜ Submissive Wife, Bold Evangelist： Embracing True Womanhood ｜ Guest： Audrey Broggi

00:00:01.000 What should you look for in a spouse? 1.00

00:00:03.620 And if you are married to an unbelieving husband, how can you point him to the Lord? 0.93

00:00:09.160 How can you be a good wife and mom, fulfilling your calling at home, and maybe also a call

00:00:15.680 to teaching and to ministry?

00:00:17.920 Today we've got Audrey Brogy here.

00:00:19.880 She is a Christian mother, grandmother, pastor's wife, writer, teacher, podcaster.

00:00:25.820 She is just incredible, and she is going to tell us her testimony today.

00:00:30.080 And interweave so much beautiful biblical wisdom within that.

00:00:33.960 We will be talking about the sometimes touchy subject of biblical submission in marriage

00:00:39.420 and what that really looks like and how the Holy Spirit empowers us to obey God and respect

00:00:45.500 our husbands.

00:00:46.680 And it's just amazing.

00:00:47.740 You will be lifted up so much by everything she has to say.

00:00:50.840 Today's episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers.

00:00:53.360 Go to GoodRanchers.com, code Allie.

00:00:55.340 That's GoodRanchers.com, code Allie.

00:01:00.000 Audrey Brogy, thank you so much for taking the time to join us.

00:01:10.500 Could you tell everyone who may not know who you are and what you do?

00:01:13.400 Well, as you've already said my name, Audrey Brogy, but the main thing I am is a pastor's

00:01:17.740 wife.

00:01:18.020 My husband's a pastor.

00:01:18.800 We've been in Beaufort, South Carolina for, what is it, 35 years now?

00:01:23.620 Since 1990, we went there after he finished seminary.

00:01:28.640 Before that, we were on staff with Campus Crusade for Christ, and I served alongside with him

00:01:33.040 back in the day when it was like, I mean, it was just wonderful.

00:01:37.480 It's a little different now.

00:01:38.620 It's a little different now.

00:01:39.840 A little different, yeah.

00:01:41.100 Which makes me sad because we love it where there's so much that we both learned.

00:01:46.060 In fact, my husband came to Christ through the ministry of Campus Crusade for Christ when

00:01:49.960 he was a freshman at Boston College, and it's interesting because when he was there, he

00:01:57.780 went to a meeting.

00:01:58.520 He'd had a lawnmower accident, and he started thinking about God a lot more, and he went

00:02:04.560 to this meeting, and they asked him, well, how long have you been a Christian?

00:02:08.220 He said about six months because that's how long he'd been thinking about God, but more.

00:02:11.960 And so that night, they were training people how to share their faith, and when they were

00:02:18.420 doing the training, he realized he didn't know the Lord, and he trusted Christ that night.

00:02:23.080 And so, but anyway, I've been serving alongside him with him in ministry since that time, and

00:02:29.380 for the past 35 years, been very involved at our church, Community Bible Church in Beaufort.

00:02:35.640 Well, there's so much I want to ask you within that.

00:02:38.020 How did y'all meet?

00:02:38.700 We met when I was a student at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, and I was very

00:02:43.900 involved in the ministry of Campus Crusade for Christ as a student when I was a sophomore,

00:02:48.860 a very close friend of mine, not a boyfriend, but a good friend, got killed in a car accident,

00:02:54.620 and it devastated me.

00:02:57.540 And then I didn't know about Campus Crusade for Christ at that time, but a really good,

00:03:03.140 oh, actually, I should say a really good friend.

00:03:05.000 It was a guy I was dating.

00:03:06.300 Okay, this time it was a guy you were dating.

00:03:07.840 It was a guy, a different guy, but he was at NC State, and he invited me to go to the

00:03:13.620 Campus Crusade Christmas Conference.

00:03:15.340 When I went to that, it answered a lot of questions.

00:03:18.540 It really helped me, and then I got involved with Campus Crusade when I came back.

00:03:21.780 All that to say, I got involved, and then Carl came to our campus when I was a junior on

00:03:28.420 staff, and so I knew about him that year by reputation.

00:03:33.900 I wasn't, we weren't dating or anything, but then as time progressed and the other relationship

00:03:40.240 dissolved, then he jumped in.

00:03:44.660 And so we started dating my senior year in college and then got married after I graduated.

00:03:48.880 So that's how we met.

00:03:49.720 It was through Campus Crusade.

00:03:50.680 So you dated for a few months, engaged for a few months, got married, and how, oh, go

00:03:56.920 ahead.

00:03:57.040 Oh, I was going to say September is when we started dating, engaged by Thanksgiving and

00:04:01.640 married in June.

00:04:02.600 Oh, I love it.

00:04:03.720 When you know, you know.

00:04:04.960 That's right.

00:04:05.500 Right?

00:04:05.640 That's right.

00:04:06.280 And I mean, I'll just pause on that because that's probably a question that a lot of young

00:04:11.300 women who are listening have is how do you know? 1.00

00:04:13.920 I always talk about how I was told, when you know, you know, when I was in college, and

00:04:18.920 that always frustrated me so much because I wanted a formula.

00:04:21.940 I wanted someone to tell me that there's going to be writing on the wall that's going to tell

00:04:25.800 you this is the one, and that was, you know, previous relationship.

00:04:28.980 It was actually me just knowing that that was the wrong relationship, and I wanted someone

00:04:33.440 to tell me something.

00:04:35.280 But then when I met my husband, I realized that that's really true.

00:04:39.220 That's not everything.

00:04:40.680 It's not just a feeling.

00:04:41.740 I mean, but that is something there that you just kind of know.

00:04:46.120 So can you talk about that for anyone navigating that?

00:04:49.280 You know, it's interesting because, you know, I knew Carl by reputation my junior year in

00:04:57.000 college.

00:04:57.480 I had no interest in him, but I knew him by reputation.

00:05:00.200 I knew when he came there that he was leading students.

00:05:03.320 He is an evangelist.

00:05:04.820 Yeah.

00:05:05.000 You know, we know God saves people, but he wants us to share the gospel.

00:05:08.820 And he was just a share of the gospel machine.

00:05:12.200 That's the only thing I know to say.

00:05:14.160 So I knew him by reputation and really respected him.

00:05:17.580 And I heard him teach the Bible.

00:05:19.700 And I remember kind of being blown away because I knew he had become a Christian.

00:05:23.060 I'd heard him share his testimony.

00:05:24.560 First time on my campus, he came to, at that time, what was called College Life.

00:05:28.360 And he spoke, myself included.

00:05:31.020 We all started laughing because his accent was so strong.

00:05:34.580 And I always tell him, we weren't laughing at you.

00:05:37.040 We were just...

00:05:37.480 He was from Boston.

00:05:38.520 Yes.

00:05:38.960 So he had the, like...

00:05:40.180 What's the...

00:05:40.720 Yeah.

00:05:41.320 Oh, yeah.

00:05:43.020 That's right.

00:05:43.900 That's right.

00:05:44.620 And all of you Southern people were like, what is this?

00:05:47.540 What is this?

00:05:48.320 Yeah.

00:05:48.880 But anyway, all that to say is like, so I knew him by reputation.

00:05:52.620 Because lots of times people will say it went really fast by the time we started dating.

00:05:56.440 And it did.

00:05:57.320 Yeah.

00:05:57.540 But I respected him first.

00:05:59.280 I knew him by reputation.

00:06:00.240 So then when I came back to college my senior year and I was not involved in a relationship

00:06:06.480 and he started, just kind of moved in and wanted and asked me to go out with him.

00:06:12.600 And I did, but I was not.

00:06:14.440 It's so interesting because I was not.

00:06:16.620 And he laughs when I tell this.

00:06:18.460 I said, I really was not interested.

00:06:19.880 I just respected you so much.

00:06:21.340 I wanted to learn from you.

00:06:22.720 Yeah.

00:06:22.860 Because I was, this is what I was going to say.

00:06:25.120 I was blown away how much he knew the Bible had only been a Christian since a freshman

00:06:29.860 in college.

00:06:30.860 Here it is five years later.

00:06:32.920 And he just, I, it was just a fervor that I grew up in church.

00:06:39.160 I became a Christian when I was a little girl, clearly understood the gospel, knew all of that.

00:06:45.420 But there was a fervor in his life and a knowledge of the scripture that blew me away.

00:06:52.160 So I wanted to learn from him.

00:06:53.640 So I respected him so much.

00:06:54.860 And then when I realized he was interested in me, I was like, whoa, I'm not interested.

00:07:00.540 And I do remember going to one of my friends and I said, I think Carl really likes me.

00:07:06.260 I think maybe he's like serious about me and that scares me.

00:07:10.280 And my friend, her name is Kathy.

00:07:12.080 And she said, what's wrong with him?

00:07:13.900 You know, he's a great guy.

00:07:14.960 And I was like, but God used that simple phrase.

00:07:17.700 And I thought he's everything that I would want because he had a heart for the Lord.

00:07:21.860 I wanted to marry someone whose heart beat for the Lord.

00:07:24.980 He was not ashamed of the gospel, not ashamed.

00:07:28.680 He was so bold.

00:07:30.180 I've never seen a bolder person with the gospel.

00:07:32.980 I always tell people he'll lead a tree to Christ because he's just that available to share the gospel.

00:07:38.560 So I wanted that.

00:07:39.340 And he was such a strong leader that that's what drew me to him.

00:07:43.180 And so when he, and that's, I guess, when you ask the question, when you know, you know.

00:07:47.020 And I always tell young women to make sure your heart beats for the Lord, that you are seeking him with all of your heart, that you're just not waiting for someone to drop from the sky, that you're not just putting all your hopes and dreams into a man.

00:08:02.220 Because if you're not happy, if you're not content as a single woman in your own walk with the Lord, you're not going to be happy as a married woman.

00:08:09.940 Because, you know, women think marriage is going to fix them and fix the longings of the heart. 1.00

00:08:14.720 Doesn't do that.

00:08:16.120 You know, if God has marriage for you, it's a wonderful gift.

00:08:19.320 But the years when you're not married, that's a wonderful gift as well.

00:08:24.000 And God did a lot in my life to prepare me for Carl swooping in.

00:08:30.260 And so, yeah, it was just like when he got serious, it was like the Lord changed my heart.

00:08:35.580 It's like, you know what?

00:08:37.180 I respect him.

00:08:38.400 I respected him before I loved him.

00:08:41.260 So and then when you see in Ephesians, you know how when Paul gives that whole list about what husbands are supposed to do for their wives?

00:08:48.360 And then very succinctly, right at the end, he says, and you wives see to it that you respect your husbands.

00:08:54.080 It's so simple.

00:08:55.580 But I think, whoa, I respected him before.

00:08:58.880 Which God still works on me with that, of course.

00:09:01.040 But I'm just saying that's deep.

00:09:04.220 The respect for him is so deep.

00:09:05.840 It is.

00:09:06.220 And I wonder what advice you would give to a woman who they fell in love with their husband first.

00:09:11.360 They loved their personality.

00:09:12.880 They were just attracted to them.

00:09:14.680 They were romantically involved.

00:09:16.000 But say that respect didn't come right away.

00:09:20.620 Or maybe they even struggle with that.

00:09:22.220 Maybe they were just so romantically involved that they kind of saw each other as equals.

00:09:25.820 And she realized at some point, oh, yeah, I'm called to submit to this person.

00:09:29.580 We're not just like really good companions.

00:09:31.820 I'm supposed to submit to him.

00:09:33.960 I need him to lead me.

00:09:35.840 Either maybe she doesn't know how to do that. 0.98

00:09:37.380 Or maybe she just doesn't feel that kind of respect that you very naturally felt toward him.

00:09:42.480 Maybe her husband is not a natural leader or for whatever reason.

00:09:47.180 It could be stuff in her own life and heart.

00:09:49.520 But how do you foster the respect that we're commanded to have when it doesn't come naturally like a feeling for some women? 0.99

00:09:58.000 And are you talking about after you're married?

00:10:00.200 You're talking about married women. 1.00

00:10:01.260 Yes, I would say that's a good point of clarity.

00:10:03.700 Yes.

00:10:04.080 After you're married or maybe even when you're engaged, when you're realizing, oh, yeah, that's the dynamic we're supposed to have.

00:10:09.320 Well, first, I'll talk I'll speak to you when you're single, because that's an area that you really do need to commit to the Lord.

00:10:15.620 You need to know God's going to God not only calls me to submit to this man, but he calls me to respect him.

00:10:21.260 And then you and then it's just like almost like that sound mind principle that you find Paul telling Timothy you list out is this is if it's a struggle for a young woman when she's single and she's dating someone to have respect for him.

00:10:33.900 It's not going to go away when she gets married, like it's one of those things.

00:10:38.420 And it doesn't mean that, you know, sanctification is a process.

00:10:41.180 So we all grow in those areas.

00:10:43.160 But at the same time, if you really don't respect them right now, you need to find out why and then take that to the Lord if so that he can show you clearly.

00:10:52.400 I think I heard a pastor say one time, you know, you either cry now or you cry later.

00:10:57.500 And so sometimes the tears, even if you feel like you're so in love, but you don't respect them.

00:11:01.780 Sometimes that that can be the thing that God shows you that this is not the person for you.

00:11:06.920 But at the same time, it could be that you have to grow and develop in that realm as well.

00:11:12.000 Now, for a married woman, it's a command of the Lord to respect your husband.

00:11:18.780 I mean, it's something like if Jesus said, if you love me, you'll obey me.

00:11:23.400 He has my commands and obeys them.

00:11:26.140 He is the one who loves me and he loves me will be loved by my father.

00:11:29.300 And I, too, will love him and show myself to him.

00:11:31.380 So he shows you more and more about himself as we obey his command.

00:11:34.760 So first of all, it's a command.

00:11:37.180 See to it that you respect your husband.

00:11:38.660 And sometimes if women are struggling with that, I always encourage women, well, list 1.00

00:11:44.000 out some things that you do respect about him.

00:11:47.000 It's not like you don't respect anything about him.

00:11:50.420 Something drew you to him.

00:11:52.240 Something you admired about him.

00:11:54.480 Make a list of those things and then camp on those.

00:11:58.180 And then the more you camp on those and then you tell him the things you respect about him,

00:12:04.300 you actually talk to him and say, I really love it when you do this.

00:12:06.880 Because I'm just saying men, just like we, there's so many things that we crave and we

00:12:11.680 want from our husbands.

00:12:13.240 They want respect from us.

00:12:16.060 And being as, you know, being married for so long to my husband, I know how to, I know

00:12:22.760 how to tell him things that are important to me, even sometimes.

00:12:25.780 And I'm talking about things in his life that are important to me.

00:12:28.900 Um, even sometimes if I'm mad at him and don't want to tell him, tell him anyway, because

00:12:34.660 there are things that are so, so it's something you have to cultivate.

00:12:36.940 Now, along with that in Titus, when it's, when the scripture says that one of the things

00:12:43.240 older women are to teach the younger women are to love their husbands and of course submit, 1.00

00:12:47.300 the assumption there is, is something that needs to be taught that we don't naturally,

00:12:52.340 we have a natural love, of course.

00:12:54.720 I mean, we have an instinctive love for our children.

00:12:56.620 We have, we fell in love and we love our husbands, but it's not biblical.

00:13:00.400 It's not a biblical level.

00:13:01.560 We have to be taught as biblical love, biblical respect, biblical, you know, all that whole

00:13:06.220 list in there.

00:13:07.020 And so, and it's something that has to be taught.

00:13:09.180 And so that's the other thing that's sometimes I would say, find an older woman who's learned

00:13:13.660 that lesson and ask her some of those things.

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00:14:41.540 I'm wondering if there's anyone out there that said, okay, but what does it actually

00:14:48.280 mean to respect?

00:14:49.380 Because we kind of mean different things when we're talking about dating versus marriage.

00:14:56.260 And respect, say you're talking about just the feeling of the respect, kind of like a

00:15:01.180 reverence and awe for, wow, that person's a good leader.

00:15:04.820 And as they're on stage leading people to Christ, I just feel this respect.

00:15:08.480 I want to learn from him.

00:15:09.600 That's kind of what you felt about Carl.

00:15:13.000 But when you're dating, it's not the same kind of committed submission that a wife would 0.93

00:15:20.480 have to her husband. 1.00

00:15:22.440 So if a woman, while she's dating a man, she feels that she doesn't respect him, it could

00:15:27.480 be, and you can tell me what you think about this, A, that as you said, God is showing her,

00:15:32.420 well, this is not really a man that is commanding your respect because he doesn't have this

00:15:36.100 relationship with the Lord.

00:15:37.080 He's not passionate about the gospel.

00:15:39.360 And God is indicating to you that this is not a man that you want to follow.

00:15:43.500 Or it could mean that maybe she's got some internalized feminism, or maybe she's just 1.00

00:15:48.580 got some sin there that she's like, you know, I'm a strong, independent woman.

00:15:52.300 I, he does have all of these things.

00:15:54.020 He is a godly man, but I don't like the idea of submission at all.

00:15:57.540 So that's kind of what you're saying.

00:15:58.780 That's what you need to distinguish when you're married.

00:16:01.240 If you don't have that respect for the person, is it him or is it you?

00:16:05.500 Versus when you're married, you are called no matter what you feel in the moment to submit,

00:16:09.980 unless it's sin.

00:16:10.980 That's right.

00:16:11.360 That's right.

00:16:12.000 That's right.

00:16:12.660 That's right.

00:16:13.360 That's right.

00:16:14.200 And you were saying something that in that moment of when you're dating or when you're seeing

00:16:21.040 someone, sometimes you have to ask yourself the question, is this a man I can follow?

00:16:26.780 And then to your point, you have to think, is this an issue with me or is this an issue

00:16:32.600 with him or is it an issue that I don't really like what the scripture says?

00:16:36.820 Because a lot of women, they don't really like what the scripture says. 1.00

00:16:40.560 So then they want to change it to fit them.

00:16:43.680 I know from speaking for me personally, as I've talked about how I respected Carl first,

00:16:47.800 one of the things I thought I could follow him.

00:16:51.720 That was the thing.

00:16:53.080 And even though I was young and didn't understand nearly what I understand now, but I understood

00:16:59.160 this is someone I want to follow.

00:17:01.300 And I knew instinctively because I'm stubborn and I'm opinionated.

00:17:07.240 I knew I needed someone who was stronger than that, who was stronger than I was about those,

00:17:13.620 or at least instinctively, I knew that.

00:17:16.020 I couldn't say at that time, I said, oh, I need someone stronger than me.

00:17:19.040 But it was clear that he had a boldness I wanted.

00:17:24.500 He had a clarity and a razor sharp focus that brought me so much clarity even before I loved

00:17:32.940 him.

00:17:33.180 So I don't know if that helps, but yeah.

00:17:36.540 And let's hang out on that word, submission, since I mean, as someone who has been in women's

00:17:42.460 ministry for a long time, and probably, obviously, as far back as the church was founded, Christians

00:17:49.440 were having difficulty with this.

00:17:51.000 Actually, you could probably go back to creation, that that's part of the curse, that there is

00:17:54.180 some strife between the husband and wife.

00:17:56.240 But obviously, there was a reason that God through Paul told the church in Ephesus, hey,

00:18:02.720 wives, and the church in Colossae too, you need to submit to your husbands, you need to 0.97

00:18:07.240 respect your husbands, and he has a command for husbands to love their wives in a sacrificial

00:18:12.200 way as Christ loved the church, which is a very high and difficult command and big burden

00:18:16.220 to bear.

00:18:17.160 But we focus on that one word, submission, and we feel, or some women feel, and maybe all 0.83

00:18:22.460 in our flesh have felt at some point, that that is oppression.

00:18:25.460 Well, I feel like you're belittling me.

00:18:27.600 I feel like you're telling me that I couldn't lead, or I don't have capabilities.

00:18:31.420 So what does that Ephesians 5 word, submission, submit to our husbands as we submit to the Lord,

00:18:38.440 what does that really mean for the wife? 0.99

00:18:40.340 Well, you know, it's interesting that when you were talking about how women often say, 0.94

00:18:43.740 I don't feel this, I don't feel that.

00:18:45.360 There's so much emphasis on how they feel about what God's word says, rather than, hey,

00:18:50.740 I just want to obey the Lord, I want to obey Him.

00:18:53.880 Now, as you were talking about those passages, it came to my mind, 1 Peter 3, of course, because

00:19:00.020 that's huge when you think about this whole subject of submission, because that was written

00:19:04.640 at a time when these women were coming to faith in Christ, their husbands, maybe not,

00:19:11.240 maybe they come to faith, but they're still disobedient to the word.

00:19:16.220 But, and it's like, it's a natural thing of like, well, I'm a Christian now, do I still,

00:19:21.500 do I need to submit to Him?

00:19:23.100 And when you see that in connection with the other sister passages that you just talked

00:19:28.140 about, you see that the issue there is how Peter takes that and he says, no, you still

00:19:35.160 need to submit.

00:19:35.980 I'm paraphrasing.

00:19:37.680 But he's saying, because you're living with this man, this is the paraphrase, but you're

00:19:42.420 living with this man, and as he observes your chaste and respectful behavior, he is going

00:19:48.320 to be one without a word by the behavior of the wife. 1.00

00:19:53.520 Now, it doesn't mean when he says without a word that she doesn't talk, but the emphasis

00:20:01.000 there is that she's not just preaching to him all the time.

00:20:03.740 Hey, read this.

00:20:04.700 Hey, come, you know, listen to this sermon.

00:20:06.680 Do this, do this.

00:20:07.800 She's not doing that. 1.00

00:20:08.660 She is living in a way that shows him respect, that she is loving him the way God says to

00:20:15.440 do it, and then God uses that because he lives with her.

00:20:18.480 Then when you continue in that passage, you see the very next part, he talks about the

00:20:24.040 holy women of old, and he specifically holds up Sarah as an example.

00:20:27.920 Now, he talks about the other women as well, but he specifically talks about Sarah and how

00:20:33.500 she respected, submitted to her husband, even calling him Lord, and of course, that's just

00:20:39.000 a term of respect.

00:20:40.220 We know that.

00:20:41.660 But, and she did what was right, the scripture says, without being frightened by any fear.

00:20:46.700 Now, so that should make any woman who wants to obey the Lord say, I need to know Sarah's 0.86

00:20:51.900 life.

00:20:52.560 And some of these other women, you study Sarah's life.

00:20:55.340 She, I mean, Abraham, she's married to him, and he is the father of the faithful, and he's,

00:21:01.500 you know, and he had a trajectory always going toward the Lord, but he had some times in his

00:21:04.980 life where I just say, sometimes I'll tease my husband and say, you threw me in the harem

00:21:09.500 again.

00:21:10.620 Yeah.

00:21:11.220 Just, you know, and because he threw her in the harem twice. 1.00

00:21:15.420 Yeah.

00:21:15.760 And she wasn't afraid.

00:21:16.920 So when he says, not being frightened by any fear, she had every reason to fear.

00:21:20.180 But the scripture says she put her hope in God, but she still, as you study her life,

00:21:26.880 she was an opinionated woman, but she submitted to her husband.

00:21:30.020 Times when she shouldn't, she knew when to speak up, when then God tells Abraham, you

00:21:34.000 listen to your wife.

00:21:35.500 You know, it's just studying her life gives so much clarity about those questions about

00:21:41.280 submission, not being a doormat, not just him telling you what to do, when to speak,

00:21:46.400 when not to speak, when God's going to protect you, even if his leadership might be

00:21:50.180 not be the best in the moment, letting him fail.

00:21:54.280 Now I say let, I don't mean letting, we let them do things.

00:21:58.000 But without nagging and saying, I told you so, do this, do this, do this, and trying

00:22:01.700 to lead ourselves.

00:22:02.360 That's right.

00:22:03.220 Yeah.

00:22:03.600 It's like getting out of the way and just letting the Lord.

00:22:05.760 And that comes down to a woman respecting the God who is over her rather than just this

00:22:12.780 man and that he's going to protect and take care of you as you obey him, as you said,

00:22:21.060 not sin issues, but as you obey him, then he will take care of not only you, but he'll

00:22:27.140 take care of the marriage.

00:22:28.320 He'll take care of your husband.

00:22:29.880 He will guide him.

00:22:30.880 And then you're on your knees praying for him, that he would lead well, that he would

00:22:33.940 make good godly decisions, that he would have your best interest at heart, that we have

00:22:38.120 the children's best interest at heart.

00:22:39.680 Because sometimes that's one of the things too, that young women, and I know for me, you 0.54

00:22:44.080 get in the way of them with their children, with your children, is like, he says this and

00:22:49.280 you're like, no.

00:22:50.260 And, you know, there's all kinds of ways that, yeah.

00:22:53.580 But it's a real test of us.

00:22:55.040 And I think that's true even in the church, you know, of women's ministry in the church.

00:22:59.680 Women so often, and I'm a woman, so I can say this, we think we know better.

00:23:05.260 Yeah.

00:23:05.740 We think we know better than the men.

00:23:07.620 We think we know better than our pastors.

00:23:09.900 We think we know better than our elders.

00:23:12.100 We think we know better than our husbands.

00:23:14.540 We think we know better.

00:23:15.860 And sometimes we do.

00:23:17.260 I mean, they need to listen to us.

00:23:18.700 I'm not discounting that.

00:23:21.000 But God has established them to give leadership, and they need more than anything good godly women 1.00

00:23:27.620 who respect that and will help them accomplish what God has called them to do.

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00:24:41.140 Sometimes we feel, and I don't know if this is just a female thing, but certainly in the 0.88

00:24:48.420 context of being a wife, wanting to follow her husband, we think that we can out Holy

00:24:53.720 Spirit, the Holy Spirit.

00:24:55.060 That's right.

00:24:55.600 Actually, if I tell him to do this, it would be better than if the Holy Spirit told him

00:25:00.700 to do it because I speak so clearly and I can do it right now.

00:25:04.220 I can think about a time when I was like, okay, you know what?

00:25:07.460 It's going to be a tough conversation, but I'm going to say that this has really been bothering

00:25:10.880 me and that I really want this to change.

00:25:13.780 And I had this monologue that I was going to repair.

00:25:16.140 And then something, I would say the Holy Spirit, I was just like exercising one day, stopped

00:25:20.260 me and was like, I have not prayed that the Lord would help me with this.

00:25:24.040 I haven't prayed that the Lord would convict over this if this is something that needs to

00:25:27.340 be convicted about for him, or maybe it's me that needs to be convicted.

00:25:30.720 But I haven't prayed.

00:25:31.520 And I will say, and I'm not saying that this is how it goes immediately every time, but

00:25:37.500 very quickly, I saw some answers to that prayer without me saying anything.

00:25:42.720 And that is certainly not to be a story of, oh, look at Allie's righteousness.

00:25:46.840 That is like one of probably many times that I've gotten it wrong.

00:25:50.040 But I can remember that distinct moment of holding my tongue and saying, let me pray about

00:25:55.420 this first.

00:25:56.180 And maybe if the Lord compels me and convicts me to say something, then maybe it is time.

00:26:02.600 But I never did.

00:26:03.800 I never did.

00:26:04.400 And I saw answers to that prayer.

00:26:06.960 And man, I've probably done the opposite and gotten that wrong many, many times.

00:26:11.900 But so much better that way, actually, because there was no fight.

00:26:14.920 There was no argument.

00:26:15.640 There was no conflict.

00:26:16.460 There was no questioning of, well, do you, you know, is this kind of, does it feel like

00:26:21.520 disrespect and all of that stuff?

00:26:23.400 That's the benefit of waiting on the Lord to do something is that it actually resolves

00:26:28.800 conflict before it starts.

00:26:30.480 And it builds your strength muscle.

00:26:32.840 It builds your spiritual muscle to trust God the next time as well.

00:26:36.720 And another thing that, as you're saying that, is another thing that I try to help young women

00:26:42.300 and I try to practice in my own life is like only talk about the things that are, like,

00:26:47.540 don't nag him about everything, you know, because then we're just background noise.

00:26:52.100 But then if it's like, this is really important to me and I need you, I'm your helper, and

00:26:57.740 I really need you to hear me on this.

00:26:59.580 But if I'm not doing that about everything, he has ears to hear.

00:27:02.640 And then he respects me and, you know, wants to hear what I have to say.

00:27:07.420 And for me personally, I always say, you don't have to listen.

00:27:10.560 This is, you know, this is just what I think.

00:27:13.420 And I think you would do well to listen to me on this, but I trust you and God's leading

00:27:18.940 in your life.

00:27:19.640 And that's, again, a spiritual muscle you have to build with time as part of that sanctification.

00:27:25.100 I love what you said that it comes down to really trusting God, not just trusting your

00:27:29.860 husband, because the question I'm sure you've gotten a lot as being a pastor's wife is, well,

00:27:34.580 what if my husband does this?

00:27:35.980 Or what if he doesn't do this?

00:27:37.360 Or what if he's like this?

00:27:38.740 I can't possibly respect that or submit to that or follow that.

00:27:42.920 But what you're saying, which is very convicting for all of us, is that it's really not about

00:27:47.920 mostly about your husband and what he's doing on a day-to-day basis.

00:27:51.580 It's really about whether or not you trust God.

00:27:53.920 That's right.

00:27:54.420 And the example of Abraham is a perfect one because he had his issues. 0.97

00:27:58.500 He did.

00:27:59.400 He did.

00:27:59.840 And I love that passage, though, just to reiterate how it says, she hoped in God.

00:28:06.140 She was not frightened by any fear.

00:28:07.660 Think about her.

00:28:08.440 If we just take a step back and think she's in a harem, she could be mistreated, but God 1.00

00:28:14.220 didn't let him touch her.

00:28:16.020 It's just like, I mean, God took care of her and then dealt with Abraham. 0.71

00:28:21.740 So I'm just saying, it's like there's so many times in decisions over the years, it's

00:28:26.500 like I am frightened by a lot of fears and the fear.

00:28:30.940 Sometimes it might be in leadership or the way what my husband's deciding or which direction

00:28:35.880 he's going.

00:28:37.120 But if my hope is in God, then I trust the authority that he's placed over me.

00:28:41.480 And there's nothing wrong with calling our husbands our authority.

00:28:44.640 I know women don't like that, but I'm just saying every place there's, you know, my husband

00:28:48.640 always says, you know, if there's two heads, it's a monster. 0.57

00:28:51.420 If there's no head, it's dead.

00:28:52.720 And so, you know, anyway, no, that's a really good, that's a really good picture.

00:28:57.840 I mean, if there's two leaders, it's chaos.

00:29:00.640 I mean, it's even like a company, whenever I see, oh, this company is transitioning to

00:29:05.200 have co-CEOs.

00:29:06.460 I'm like, it's not going to last long.

00:29:08.540 Exactly.

00:29:09.460 It's just not, but even more so in a family, because you've got so many intimate things

00:29:14.520 that you are dealing with and deciding and all of that.

00:29:18.420 So you're absolutely right.

00:29:19.400 I'm curious about your life as a pastor's life.

00:29:22.940 So after y'all got married, he was already in the ministry, but when did he become a pastor?

00:29:28.140 Well, when we first got married, we're still on staff with Crusade, went to Duke University

00:29:32.080 and worked there for five years with Campus Crusade.

00:29:34.640 Our children began to be born in Durham.

00:29:38.060 We have five children.

00:29:39.600 And then during those five years, he just really sensed he wanted to go to seminary and be

00:29:46.460 a pastor.

00:29:49.900 So we were there at Duke five years, and then we moved and came to Dallas, and he went

00:29:55.100 to Dallas DTS, which, sad to say again.

00:29:59.760 Another institution.

00:30:01.800 Yes, it's sad.

00:30:03.120 It makes me sad.

00:30:04.080 It makes him sad.

00:30:05.120 Yes.

00:30:05.440 I totally know how that feels.

00:30:07.880 Yeah.

00:30:08.840 And he gets on the phone.

00:30:10.820 He's not passive.

00:30:13.460 Yeah.

00:30:14.100 It's not going down without a fight.

00:30:15.680 No, that's right.

00:30:16.680 That's right.

00:30:17.920 But he went there.

00:30:19.860 And so we were in Dallas for five years.

00:30:22.780 And then while we were in Dallas, he served as pastor of evangelism at Lake Point Church

00:30:27.780 in Rockwall.

00:30:29.220 And in fact, he was one of the elders there.

00:30:31.660 The first time they had elders, they were moving towards an elder form of government.

00:30:35.920 And he was one of the elders there with Steve Stroop, who was the former pastor there.

00:30:40.380 And so he was there.

00:30:42.200 And it was while there that he was beginning to have his resumes to be a pastor.

00:30:48.880 And he could have, there was a church in Richardson that had, was seeking him, but this church

00:30:54.640 in Beaufort sought him.

00:30:56.640 And it was just through those steps, we went to Beaufort.

00:30:59.580 It was been great.

00:31:00.600 And made it back to North Carolina.

00:31:01.880 So what has it been like being a pastor's wife?

00:31:05.140 I guess it looks different for different kinds of people and the different giftings that

00:31:09.500 God gives someone.

00:31:10.400 But you have taken on a role of teaching women and discipleship for women.

00:31:14.700 So how did that come about?

00:31:16.000 Well, it came about when we first got to Beaufort.

00:31:18.740 It was a small church, didn't have a building.

00:31:21.560 And I guess because of a new pastor, some of the women who had been doing things were 1.00

00:31:25.360 kind of like resigning.

00:31:27.020 You know, they were having, I don't know what all they had at that point, but they wanted

00:31:30.620 me to teach a Bible study.

00:31:32.840 I had four little children at that time.

00:31:36.280 And I did, I was a trained leader with Precept.

00:31:40.880 And so I did one Bible study in the evenings, but I, it was like halfway through that Bible

00:31:47.560 study, I realized this is not the right season for me to be leaving my home at night.

00:31:51.680 And so I finished it.

00:31:53.400 It's hard.

00:31:53.640 It's hard.

00:31:54.480 Yes.

00:31:54.860 And I finished it, completed it.

00:31:57.180 But then I thought I'm not, I'm not going to do this.

00:31:59.720 Yeah.

00:31:59.880 Um, but I wanted to use my gifts in the body.

00:32:02.600 So I was teaching children's Sunday school classes.

00:32:05.360 And by the way, I will say this, teaching children's Sunday school classes is how I learned

00:32:11.040 the Bible even more because I took it seriously.

00:32:13.820 Yeah.

00:32:14.260 And, and I learned so much teaching children's Sunday school classes, but lay that aside.

00:32:20.280 That's what I was doing.

00:32:21.420 We had a lot of young families come into the church.

00:32:24.040 It was growing by conversion.

00:32:26.940 And then some of the younger families, they, now my children were young, um, you know,

00:32:32.300 like maybe 12 and under Jameson was not born yet.

00:32:38.580 He's my baby.

00:32:39.440 He wasn't born yet.

00:32:40.500 But some of them were asking me if I would, if I would teach a mothering Bible.

00:32:43.660 So just share what you're doing.

00:32:45.160 Yeah.

00:32:45.520 You know?

00:32:46.900 So I said, okay, I could do that as my season of life.

00:32:50.020 And so then I started, I did it in my home and it was like, I opened it up and it was

00:32:54.500 just because again, we didn't have a building, but it just exploded in the sense that, whoa,

00:33:00.040 I mean, women were sitting around on the stairs. 1.00

00:33:02.700 It was just like a need.

00:33:03.780 And all I was doing was typing up.

00:33:06.100 In fact, some of the early women who are still in our church, they said, I still have

00:33:09.300 the handouts, you know, because I would hand them, I would write it and just hand them

00:33:13.260 what I was teaching.

00:33:14.880 And, um, anyway, and so then I started doing that, but I did it in my home and my children

00:33:19.380 and even my daughter and my son, they would like do refreshments.

00:33:23.380 And then, then when, after Jameson was born, they would, um, watch him once they welcomed

00:33:28.460 all the ladies and they would watch him up in the, um, upstairs, um, during his nap time

00:33:33.960 and they would be quiet and all that stuff while I taught that Bible study.

00:33:37.040 So that's how that started.

00:33:38.900 Yeah.

00:33:39.140 And because that was, God honored that.

00:33:42.500 Then when we got our building, my husband said, you need to teach that at the church because

00:33:46.940 it's more centrally located and more women could come. 1.00

00:33:50.040 And then he said, um, now after a while, see, he just made me do everything and I submitted.

00:33:57.160 Then he said, um, he said, I want you to do that.

00:34:00.300 He said, I want you to think about doing that as a Friday night, Saturday thing.

00:34:03.980 So even more women could come. 1.00

00:34:05.220 Cause this is so needed.

00:34:06.360 Cause he saw how, you know, he saw what was going on.

00:34:10.240 Cause I didn't just talk about how to mother children. 0.84

00:34:12.240 And I went back to Genesis.

00:34:14.080 I talked about, you know, the foundations that the foundations are gone.

00:34:17.740 What do you have?

00:34:18.460 Exactly.

00:34:18.880 And everything is there.

00:34:19.840 So, so I started there.

00:34:21.280 And then I remember doing that the first time it was a Friday night and a Saturday, a conference

00:34:26.060 format.

00:34:26.540 And I remember thinking, okay, this is recorded.

00:34:28.240 I don't have to do this anymore.

00:34:29.720 You know, no people can just get it.

00:34:32.020 Um, but that's how it started.

00:34:34.420 And then from that, it was like, we started having twice a month.

00:34:40.020 Cause I, at my stage of life, I didn't want to do it every week.

00:34:42.860 Um, so I started that and then little by little, it just, it just grew into what it

00:34:48.160 is.

00:34:48.340 It just organically happened the way it is.

00:34:50.720 But I also understand from scripture that women's ministry in the church should be under

00:34:59.420 the authority of the church, under the authority of pastors and elders, not just women off doing

00:35:04.420 their own thing and kind of going rogue and deciding they're going to do what they want to

00:35:08.180 do.

00:35:08.440 And they don't even, you know, the, a pastor, a shepherd is called to guard the flock.

00:35:12.960 They're supposed to protect the flock.

00:35:15.020 So it matters what the women are teaching other women. 1.00

00:35:17.700 It matters what material they're using.

00:35:19.780 It matters what speakers, where they're going and what they're doing.

00:35:24.200 And they care about that to give oversight to it, not in a controlling way, but just the

00:35:29.480 way a pastor has a heart.

00:35:31.120 He's not a hireling.

00:35:32.000 He cares for the sheep.

00:35:33.460 And so he even cares about women's ministry.

00:35:36.020 So if we understand our role in the home, it's like, that's a microcosm of what women's 1.00

00:35:41.540 role should be in the church.

00:35:42.920 Yeah.

00:35:43.140 A helper, a being committed to the overall mission and vision of the church and being a

00:35:48.940 part of that and seeing how we as women can help the church as a whole and help the leadership

00:35:55.340 do what they need to do.

00:35:57.240 So.

00:35:57.260 Yes, I love that so much.

00:35:59.100 And I love how much your husband was like, yes, this is great and encouraged it and wanted

00:36:03.620 more of it.

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00:37:32.540 When you were teaching specifically about motherhood, family discipleship, I know that

00:37:37.680 you talked about teaching through the whole Bible, which I totally agree, all of it is

00:37:41.380 relevant to motherhood and homemaking and being a wife and mom.

00:37:44.420 What specifically were you teaching moms in that stage of life about how to raise their 0.99

00:37:50.160 kids in the Lord?

00:37:51.180 I know that's a big question, but just some tips, because we've got a lot of young moms 1.00

00:37:55.300 here trying to figure that out.

00:37:56.780 What would you say?

00:37:57.600 Well, the things I covered in that Bible study, which I still do, because I still teach it

00:38:01.860 periodically at my church, because we have a whole new generation.

00:38:05.280 As long as I've been in ministry and as old as I am, it's like, whoa, we've got all these

00:38:09.200 20s and 30s now that weren't here before, and I need to keep it because God's Word, you

00:38:14.780 have to keep teaching it.

00:38:17.520 But anyway, I started out with a culture of confusion.

00:38:22.820 Now, when I started this, it was back in the 90s, but it was like our world's falling apart.

00:38:27.460 And even in the church, there's like not that many, I don't know, you're trying to look for

00:38:33.460 good role models or even people who are willing to mentor you or that you could learn from.

00:38:38.980 So I had a burden for that, that I remember even as a young mom, and this is when we lived

00:38:45.580 in Texas, I remember like wanting an old, I wanted the older woman of Titus in my life. 1.00

00:38:53.320 Now, our church was great, but there wasn't, I just remember telling the Lord, I want to

00:39:03.580 be that kind of woman.

00:39:04.920 I want to make decisions now and do what I can now to be this woman who can give back

00:39:11.420 to my daughter, my daughter's-in-law, to the young women who are coming up behind me and

00:39:17.320 who will be the person that will give them truth from Scripture, not just what they want

00:39:22.560 to hear, and pat them on the back and say, but to tell them what they need to hear, and

00:39:27.420 of course, pat them on the back when that's warranted.

00:39:30.940 But so I talked about a culture of confusion, and then the, and I talked about God's word

00:39:35.560 is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

00:39:37.620 And I laid the foundation from Genesis in that first session in terms of, you know, when

00:39:43.500 God created woman, He created her with the nurturing heart.

00:39:47.380 And not everybody's going to be a mom.

00:39:48.560 We know that, but it's still in our DNA, little girls, mother, babies, single women.

00:39:54.260 Think about how many it is women who are teachers in the schools. 1.00

00:39:58.340 Yeah.

00:39:58.560 It's because they, because we nurture, we mother.

00:40:01.020 It's so, it's part of our DNA, even if we never get married and never have children,

00:40:04.880 that's who we are.

00:40:05.980 And all little children look up to women as mothers.

00:40:09.520 Yeah.

00:40:09.920 Even if they're not biological mothers.

00:40:12.440 They automatically feel safer toward the woman.

00:40:14.640 They gravitate toward the woman.

00:40:16.100 Yeah, it's so true.

00:40:17.380 That's right.

00:40:18.020 And so I wanted to build the foundation from that, from Genesis, and even build from there,

00:40:23.060 like, this is God's good design.

00:40:25.840 When man and woman sinned, it marred it, but God didn't give up on them.

00:40:30.280 He set out to redeem it.

00:40:32.140 It wasn't like, okay, she failed.

00:40:34.640 I'm done with her.

00:40:35.560 He failed.

00:40:36.300 I'm done with him.

00:40:37.500 It's over.

00:40:38.300 It's like, no, He set out to redeem them.

00:40:40.080 Even at the end of chapter three, after they've sinned, when Adam looks at his wife and he calls

00:40:46.280 her the mother of all the living, that's after sin.

00:40:49.720 That's after the curse has been issued.

00:40:52.280 That's when you know there's going to be struggles, but it's like, no, you're still

00:40:56.800 going to be a mother.

00:40:57.980 And you're the mother of all the living.

00:40:59.600 So there's a redemption.

00:41:00.660 And of course, we also know from Genesis chapter three, that's when we see the foreshadowing of

00:41:05.000 Christ, you know, and we see too that God clothed them and that, and then we also know, because

00:41:10.180 we know that Christ is going to come through a woman.

00:41:13.820 Talk about redemption.

00:41:15.180 Right.

00:41:15.380 You know, it's just, it's so important.

00:41:17.160 So I lay that foundation in the, in the first session.

00:41:21.320 And then the next session, I deal with the real problems of motherhood and it's not the

00:41:25.960 children.

00:41:26.480 That's just kind of what I called it.

00:41:27.840 And I talk about our sin nature that when, you know, when Carl and I got married, we're two

00:41:31.940 sinners and we're getting married.

00:41:33.060 And then we gave birth to five sinners.

00:41:35.520 So you've got seven sinners in a home.

00:41:37.660 There's going to naturally be conflict.

00:41:39.560 We think, you know, if we just do everything right, it's just going to be smooth sailing.

00:41:42.880 We see all the social media photos of everybody being so wonderful.

00:41:47.420 But if you have a sin nature, it's going to rock the boat.

00:41:50.420 So I talk about dealing with sin.

00:41:51.940 I also like share the gospel in that session for women who think they're believers, but 1.00

00:41:57.820 they're not.

00:41:58.440 And then I talk about the role of the Holy Spirit that God, that he lives in us.

00:42:02.580 And this is his role.

00:42:03.980 This is what he comes to do in our lives and how that relates specifically to mothering.

00:42:10.020 And then I talk about, I go into replacement.

00:42:13.400 I call it replacement thinking, but it's from Colossians chapter three.

00:42:16.320 It's from Ephesians.

00:42:17.640 We let the word of Christ richly dwell within you.

00:42:20.280 Walk in the spirit.

00:42:21.180 As Ephesians says, you look at those sister passages and he always says, put this off,

00:42:25.560 put this on.

00:42:26.820 He doesn't just empty us out.

00:42:28.460 He wants us to replace.

00:42:29.540 So I talk about that and specifically how that relates to being a mom in the home and

00:42:34.560 how do we make theology come alive in our homes?

00:42:38.220 Because if we can live it out in the home, you know, that's where the rubber meets the

00:42:42.940 road.

00:42:43.260 You and I can be like just so sweet to each other, but it's how am I in my home, you know?

00:42:50.040 And so I teach the practical side of that.

00:42:54.280 Then I go through some things like babies and toddlers and, you know, I go through each

00:42:59.640 stage of just things that helped me.

00:43:01.880 It's not like I'm arriving at this, like I've arrived and I'm an expert, but these are the

00:43:05.820 things, this is what I'm holding onto for dear life.

00:43:08.780 In fact, when I was young in my thirties, writing that material, I told the women, the 0.92

00:43:13.860 jury's not out.

00:43:15.160 Yeah.

00:43:15.320 I mean, but this is what I'm holding onto for dear life.

00:43:20.480 Yeah.

00:43:20.800 And what were some of those things for the baby and toddler stage?

00:43:23.640 Oh, well, one is the, I always call it the R word, relax. 0.66

00:43:27.880 Yeah.

00:43:28.540 Always just say it's okay to have a, you know, I, I talk about the fact that God doesn't

00:43:33.140 give in his word.

00:43:35.100 Now, when you have a newborn, you got to do it just like this.

00:43:38.040 Yeah.

00:43:38.640 Cause he gives us a mothering instinct.

00:43:40.400 And, and, you know, like, cause I remember for me when I was having my babies, there's

00:43:44.480 so many opinions like, oh, whether or not you should carry them and wear a sling.

00:43:48.920 And I did care, you know, oh, whether or not you should, they should be sleeping in a separate 1.00

00:43:52.960 room or, you know, all these rules.

00:43:56.020 And it's like, but God doesn't address that.

00:43:58.380 You know, Mary and Joseph had Jesus in a stable and then it laid him in a manger.

00:44:04.980 And, you know, and then you think about the whole global, the whole world about how women 0.98

00:44:10.920 have mothered their babies.

00:44:12.280 God gives us an instinct, a natural God given instinct, but has to be brought under the control

00:44:18.100 of the Holy Spirit.

00:44:18.900 So I always say things like, if it's not a thus say of the Lord issue, you're your child's

00:44:25.220 best mom.

00:44:26.060 You can decide if you want to carry them in a sling or if you read, and I'm saying that

00:44:30.860 cause I carry Jameson in a sling, you can decide those things.

00:44:36.840 You can research things to see what's best for your family.

00:44:40.540 That's a big part of what I did in that.

00:44:43.620 And even something that helped me when I had my first baby, because I was so like the back

00:44:49.140 then it was like, they need to be in a separate room, or at least this is what I was hearing.

00:44:52.320 You don't need to have them in your room.

00:44:54.120 You need to train them to soothe themselves, all this stuff.

00:44:58.520 And I remember one time I was so stressed over that and I was talking to my grandmother

00:45:02.860 and I just said, I just, you know, I'm just, I want him in my room.

00:45:07.420 And she said, Audrey, we didn't have a separate room.

00:45:11.340 Yeah.

00:45:11.700 That was like life changing for me.

00:45:14.860 It was just as this young 22 year old woman, it was like, yeah, I immediately moved him

00:45:24.100 in my room.

00:45:24.660 It's fine.

00:45:25.360 Yeah.

00:45:25.620 But I'm saying that was just something in that you learn with time and an older woman helping

00:45:29.600 me with that.

00:45:30.460 It's like, and she would say, you just do with your God given instincts and what you

00:45:35.480 know of the Bible.

00:45:36.380 And you're always going to be growing and learning, but trust yourself because God trusts you with

00:45:42.580 that baby.

00:45:43.340 He gave you that baby and he's going to use you in the process.

00:45:47.460 So yeah, that's something, I mean, certainly the jury is still out on me because my kids

00:45:52.620 are five, three, and one.

00:45:53.840 Um, and I, but by the time you have number three, you have already learned a lot.

00:46:01.160 That's right.

00:46:01.720 It has only been five or six years total that you've been a mom.

00:46:06.100 You already, or at least for me, I can't speak for everyone, but you've learned to let

00:46:12.200 go of all of the anxieties that you had as a first time mom.

00:46:16.120 That's right.

00:46:16.400 First of all, I don't have the energy and capacity to worry about all of the things that

00:46:21.420 I worried about as a first time mom, but also you build confidence.

00:46:25.120 You're like, I can keep a child alive.

00:46:27.600 They're going to be okay.

00:46:29.040 Like having the sniffles is not a life or death situation where I have to freak out about that.

00:46:34.520 They're going to be okay.

00:46:35.420 I know how to do this.

00:46:36.960 Also, when you've gone through hard times, this is true about life in general, you can

00:46:40.500 apply it to so many things, but certainly motherhood. 0.99

00:46:42.740 Okay.

00:46:43.020 I went through that really hard time where all of my kids were really sick and it was really

00:46:46.880 stressful and we were moving and whatever.

00:46:48.660 And the next time you meet a child, you're like, okay, well, this is not as hard as that.

00:46:53.440 And I got through that.

00:46:54.620 I can survive this too.

00:46:55.680 That's right.

00:46:56.060 And there's a lot of benefit even to listening to friends who are just like a couple of years

00:47:01.080 ahead of me.

00:47:02.000 And I also realized I have friends who are first time moms who are, they're telling me

00:47:06.400 all their anxieties and concerns.

00:47:08.000 And I'm like, I totally get it.

00:47:09.080 I felt that, but you're going to be totally fine.

00:47:12.460 You're going to be fine.

00:47:13.300 And that's not dismissive.

00:47:14.600 Sometimes you just need to hear that.

00:47:16.160 That's right.

00:47:16.660 I mean, it's really important and you don't have to be a perfect, perfect mom.

00:47:21.440 There's no such thing or be completely done with motherhood to lend wisdom to people who

00:47:27.180 need it.

00:47:28.040 Right.

00:47:28.520 I love that.

00:47:29.600 And I love the fact of telling them you're going to be fine.

00:47:31.920 I always talk about first Kings three when, you know, Solomon goes to the Lord and he

00:47:38.460 says, I don't know how to lead these people.

00:47:40.460 You know, he says, there are too many for me.

00:47:42.040 I need wisdom, you know, cause, and that's what he says is, I don't know how to go in

00:47:47.000 or come out.

00:47:47.920 This is too big for me.

00:47:49.460 There's too many people.

00:47:50.920 And that becomes like a prayer.

00:47:52.960 That's a wonderful prayer for a mother.

00:47:55.040 Not like, Oh, am I going to have the best like crib?

00:47:57.880 Am I going to have the best, whatever it is, the best, you know, food.

00:48:01.560 It's just like, Lord, I don't know what I'm doing.

00:48:03.600 Yeah.

00:48:03.920 I'm, this is too big for me.

00:48:05.560 I don't know how to go in or go out myself.

00:48:08.260 I need your wisdom.

00:48:09.740 And then if a mom will stay on her knees and I literally mean that I'm not using that as

00:48:14.900 a phrase.

00:48:15.520 I always tell moms, eat the carpet. 0.99

00:48:17.300 That's what I always called it.

00:48:18.660 Sometimes with my kids, if it was something, I don't know, homeschooling them at different

00:48:22.460 times or whatever, sometimes they don't really, they didn't know when I was eating the carpet,

00:48:28.060 but there were things that were burdening me that I, but what I mean is just be, be humble

00:48:33.920 before the Lord and cry out to him for his help because, you know, scripture says, draw

00:48:38.520 near to God.

00:48:39.080 He will draw near to you.

00:48:40.940 God is attracted to our neediness, you know, that we need him and he will help us.

00:48:47.500 What nation has a God so near that he will respond to us when we call out to him.

00:48:52.100 And we, if we call out to him, he will come to our aid, even in the simplest things of,

00:48:59.800 I don't know what to do in this moment.

00:49:01.040 Should I ground this child? 0.99

00:49:02.360 Should I spank them? 1.00

00:49:04.360 I know that's a tricky word to say. 0.94

00:49:06.200 Well, should I, should I, um, whatever it is, it's like, Lord, I need your help.

00:49:11.160 I need you to help me.

00:49:12.680 Do we not think God will come to our aid and help us even in this task of mothering?

00:49:16.920 You know, Mary had to think that and she's raising the perfect child. 0.94

00:49:20.580 Yeah.

00:49:20.880 You know, she had to rely in that same way.

00:49:23.220 But I think sometimes that's the thing I always want to encourage moms in the most.

00:49:27.640 And I need it myself, even as I'm parenting, still the parent of, I'm not parenting adult

00:49:32.220 children, but I have adult children of like, Lord, I need your help.

00:49:36.420 When to, I don't want to be intrusive in their lives.

00:49:39.300 I want to, I want to help them.

00:49:41.280 I need your help even to be involved in that way.

00:49:44.420 Just like I did when I was raising them.

00:49:46.480 I need your help.

00:49:47.560 Yeah.

00:49:47.860 Gosh, I think that this kind of discipleship and mentorship is so needed within the church.

00:49:55.560 There are a lot of women's ministries and, you know, all of them are different.

00:50:00.620 And I obviously don't know every women's ministry that exists, but it does seem like there is

00:50:05.600 a deficit of this kind of teaching, specifically about motherhood today.

00:50:11.060 And I just, a lot of the conferences and the books that are targeting women are really more

00:50:18.160 about like self-esteem and they're really more about like the self.

00:50:21.820 And I'm not saying that we should never talk about our problems with anxiety or self-loathing

00:50:27.820 and all of that.

00:50:28.920 The gospel does speak to all of those things, but just like practical guidance on motherhood

00:50:34.400 and child raising.

00:50:35.860 I don't know if I see a lot of local churches, and I've been to a lot of them, like having

00:50:41.340 systems in place to make sure that kind of mentorship is happening.

00:50:45.860 And we need it just as much as, you know, any Christian generation has ever needed that. 0.95

00:50:50.940 And maybe it's, you know, a millennial problem.

00:50:53.260 Maybe it's a baby boomer problem. 0.99

00:50:55.060 Maybe it's just a local church problem.

00:50:56.560 I don't know what it is.

00:50:58.160 Yeah.

00:50:58.480 I'm not sure what it is, but I just, I do see a need for that.

00:51:02.880 So if someone is listening or watching and they're like, okay, I want something like

00:51:06.620 this at my church.

00:51:07.900 I want to connect with the grandmothers and young moms, the older women and the younger

00:51:12.940 women. 0.81

00:51:13.300 And I want something like this.

00:51:14.580 I want a Bible study like this.

00:51:15.640 Like, what would you recommend?

00:51:17.100 Well, you know, again, when I mentioned earlier that it kind of came about organically in our

00:51:22.340 church and what I mean by that is I understood and I studied myself personally the book of Titus.

00:51:29.400 Now, when I was growing up, I never heard it taught.

00:51:31.480 I never heard it taught.

00:51:32.340 And maybe it was, and I just didn't have ears to hear.

00:51:34.340 I don't know.

00:51:35.040 But I do remember as a very young mom, we were in our church, in a church in North Carolina.

00:51:40.800 And I'd never heard of John MacArthur prior to this.

00:51:43.820 Never heard of him.

00:51:45.240 But they brought in a video series that he did.

00:51:49.400 And I remember I was a young mom.

00:51:51.720 I was like in my early 20s.

00:51:53.300 And I was like mesmerized by the home, what he was teaching on the home.

00:51:59.580 And I just was so hungry.

00:52:02.520 I was like soaking it up.

00:52:03.780 Well, then when the, but what I learned is a lot of the women in the church got mad about 0.99

00:52:07.820 that series.

00:52:08.700 They got angry.

00:52:09.940 They didn't like what he was saying.

00:52:11.420 And the pastor apologized and they didn't show any more of that series.

00:52:16.360 And I'm not, again, I'm not trying to throw shade on that.

00:52:18.700 I'm just, that's just what happened.

00:52:20.080 Not John MacArthur.

00:52:21.180 No, it was John MacArthur.

00:52:22.240 He did apologize.

00:52:23.560 No, no, no.

00:52:24.380 No, what I'm saying, it was a series by John MacArthur.

00:52:26.500 Oh, got it, got it.

00:52:27.260 We were showing it.

00:52:28.220 That's okay.

00:52:28.800 I'm sure everyone else got it.

00:52:30.060 I just wanted to make sure.

00:52:31.300 But I wanted to hear the, I was like, wow, I don't, I don't think I would have expected

00:52:34.920 John MacArthur to apologize.

00:52:37.080 Yeah.

00:52:37.340 It was a series of pastor of our church.

00:52:39.320 I apologize for showing it.

00:52:40.620 Yeah.

00:52:42.200 But that was like, I want to know this book.

00:52:44.940 And so I began to study it and just realize, and here's the thing, and this is what I would

00:52:49.680 say, you know, just in general, in terms of women's ministry in the church.

00:52:54.280 When, you know, Titus is a pastoral epistle, just like first and second Timothy, Paul is writing

00:52:59.740 how the church should function.

00:53:01.360 Yeah.

00:53:01.560 And in those epistles, he said, he covers every single group in the church, every single one.

00:53:06.940 Now, Titus is great because he, it's very succinct.

00:53:10.560 It's a very short book.

00:53:11.440 It's only three chapters.

00:53:12.400 First chapter deals with leadership in the church, qualified leadership and why they're

00:53:15.760 supposed to do what they do.

00:53:16.880 Second chapter, the first half of it deals with groups in the church.

00:53:19.740 And then it goes on, talks about the appearing of our great God and Savior.

00:53:22.880 This is why we do what we do.

00:53:24.120 And then to remember who we were before we came to Christ as the third chapter.

00:53:26.720 But in that second chapter, he's talking about what's supposed to happen with groups in the

00:53:31.980 church.

00:53:32.780 And in that, you see the older women, the younger women are included in that in terms of what 1.00

00:53:37.160 really, it's like, this is women's ministry.

00:53:39.880 Now, that does not mean what a lot of women think and what I've faced over the years when

00:53:43.100 people think, oh, you just teach Titus 2, 3 to 5 all the time.

00:53:46.480 No, well, I could teach it all the time because I could teach to love your husbands and I could 0.96

00:53:51.180 look at Sarah.

00:53:51.900 I could look at Rebecca.

00:53:53.220 I could look at, I could look at Ruth.

00:53:55.680 I could look at Esther.

00:53:56.880 I could look at tons of passages and teach from that lens.

00:54:01.100 But no, it's not just teaching that list, but it's teaching the Bible through that lens.

00:54:06.920 You know, that you're helping women learn how to take that theology that they're learning

00:54:13.080 from other, from books of the Bible and putting feet to it.

00:54:16.640 For example, this just, you know, I teach a women's Sunday school class. 0.80

00:54:20.860 They call them adult, you know, they're called adult Bible fellowships now.

00:54:24.360 And my husband is teaching the gospel of Mark right now.

00:54:27.700 And I just told our women, I want to follow along with the gospel of Mark.

00:54:32.640 We're going to, and, you know, teach it, follow behind him.

00:54:37.480 And one of the women in the class said, oh, I'm so excited for this because I love all of

00:54:42.100 the theology and everything we're learning.

00:54:43.760 But now it's like, we'll know how to practically live it out as women. 1.00

00:54:49.140 That's kind of like taking my role as a woman, kind of like what a woman does in the home. 0.97

00:54:54.720 The father like says, this, this, and this, and the woman helps flesh it out.

00:54:58.000 The mom helps.

00:54:59.040 Well, this is how we do this.

00:55:00.700 And this, let's take what your dad just said, and let's, you know, it's the way you work

00:55:04.040 as a team.

00:55:04.760 And so it's that same type of thing with, if, if women understand what women are to 1.00

00:55:11.640 do in the church, that has, it's like, that's the perspective, that's the overview.

00:55:16.480 Then this connecting happens out of that.

00:55:19.960 For example, too, I teach, we call it woman's life at our church, and it's not every single

00:55:24.160 week.

00:55:24.580 We have focus time in the fall, focus time in the spring.

00:55:27.720 And I just, you know, I mean, I, I teach all kinds of things.

00:55:31.640 I just did a series called seasons of a woman's life.

00:55:33.800 But I taught the whole book of Song of Solomon last year, and I taught that, but I taught

00:55:39.100 it as a woman would teach it. 1.00

00:55:41.320 And there's marriage, and there's courtship, and there's dating, and there's like, you're

00:55:45.300 fighting in your marriage, and then how they, how they work it out, and all those kinds of

00:55:49.600 things.

00:55:49.920 So to answer that question, it's like understanding the big picture, and then teaching from that

00:55:56.780 lens.

00:55:57.840 You know, it's kind of like, you know, even pastors, they understand Genesis to Revelation,

00:56:01.460 they know the big story.

00:56:03.640 But then when they teach the Gospel of Mark, or they teach Malachi, it's through the lens

00:56:09.900 of the whole Bible, God's story, if that makes sense.

00:56:13.180 Totally makes sense.

00:56:14.340 Thank you so much.

00:56:15.120 That's so helpful.

00:56:16.420 I am so grateful for you.

00:56:17.580 This is such a fun conversation.

00:56:18.920 I feel like I could talk to you for hours.

00:56:20.540 If people want to hear more from you, they can listen to your podcast.

00:56:22.980 That's right.

00:56:23.440 It's called Rare But Real, right?

00:56:24.200 That's right.

00:56:24.880 And it's wherever people listen.

00:56:26.500 That's right.

00:56:27.060 It's everywhere.

00:56:27.480 Awesome.

00:56:28.240 Well, I know people are going to be flocking to that because you are just so easy to listen

00:56:32.080 to and so encouraging.

00:56:33.400 Thank you so much for taking the time to come on.

00:56:35.240 Well, thank you for inviting me.

00:56:36.200 Thank you.

00:56:41.640 All right.

00:56:42.240 As we close out, I just want to remind you to subscribe to Blaze TV.

00:56:46.640 Go to blazetv.com slash Allie.

00:56:48.540 You will get a discount on your subscription to Blaze TV.

00:56:52.760 That's blazetv.com slash Allie.

00:56:54.260 You will get access to all subscriber exclusive content.

00:57:00.340 It's just amazing stuff what the creators at Blaze TV are putting out.

00:57:03.840 Just really good, hard-hitting journalism, intriguing conversations that you can't get anywhere else.

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Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - April 28, 2025

Ep 1179 ｜ Submissive Wife, Bold Evangelist： Embracing True Womanhood ｜ Guest： Audrey Broggi

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