Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1184 ｜ Are Stay-at-Home Moms Dumb？

00:00:00.000 Is being a mom boring or intellectually stimulating? I've got a tip for how you can

00:00:06.920 answer really fun but theological challenging questions in your home. Also, surprise, surprise,

00:00:13.300 Russell Moore has misrepresented me yet again and toxic empathy in the pages of Christianity Today,

00:00:21.260 and Brie and I will be judging all of the best and worst Met Gala outfits. We've got all of this

00:00:27.500 and more. On today's episode of Relatable, it's brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers.

00:00:31.320 Go to goodranchers.com. Use code Allie at checkout. That's goodranchers.com, code Allie.

00:00:45.580 Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Tuesday. Hope everyone is having a wonderful week so far.

00:00:51.020 If you have not watched or listened to yesterday's episode, if you have not shared it, if you have

00:00:57.260 not shared it and tagged Elon Musk or Pam Bondi, I need you to do that. I don't get anything out

00:01:04.600 of that. I just want awareness about what is going on with KinderCare, who is getting hundreds of

00:01:11.660 millions of dollars of our tax money and systemically covering up the abuse of children. I want them to

00:01:19.880 be brought to justice. I want people to know about this, but also our government needs to know about

00:01:25.400 this. Doge needs to know about this and the Justice Department needs to know about this because

00:01:30.620 children matter. And this is why politics matter. Politics matter because policy matters because

00:01:36.260 people matter. Politics affects policy. Policy affects people. People matter, especially people

00:01:41.580 with no political capital, no means to defend themselves. Children. And so something needs to

00:01:47.180 change there. And yesterday's episode, and specifically Edwin's really courageous and thorough

00:01:52.440 reporting has the potential to make a difference. But I need all of your help in amplifying that.

00:01:59.180 All right. Got quite a few things to talk about today. It is going to be, this is such a representation

00:02:06.840 of all that you can expect on Relatable. We will be talking about culture. We will talk

00:02:13.380 deeply about theology, but then we are also going to talk about the Met Gala. Somehow it is that time of

00:02:19.320 year again. I feel like the Met Gala was like last week. And yet here we are judging Met Gala outfits

00:02:24.680 again. For some of you, you absolutely love it when we talk about the Met Gala. And some of you,

00:02:29.340 you don't like when we judge outfits. So if you don't like the outfit judgment part of Relatable,

00:02:36.480 then I would just skip past that. And in this episode early, but for those of you who love that,

00:02:42.300 you are in for a treat. All right. Before we get into all of it, let me remind you to sign up

00:02:47.060 for Share the Arrows, y'all. It's going to be amazing. It's not just for moms. It is for any

00:02:53.520 Christian woman, no matter what stage of life you are in. And it is only for women. This is not a 1.00

00:02:59.400 conference where you can bring your husband, where you can bring your guy friend. It's not for them.

00:03:04.440 They have their own men's spaces and men's conferences. It is so important for me to have

00:03:09.740 Share the Arrows be a theological training and equipping conference only for women. We are hearing from

00:03:16.920 Alisa Childers. We've got Ginger Duggar Voila. We've got Shauna Holman and Taylor Dukes. They're

00:03:22.520 going to be on an all-star amazing holistic health panel, which I'm so pumped for. We've got

00:03:28.180 your favorite, Katie Faust. Francesca Battistelli is coming back to lead us in worship. We've got two

00:03:33.960 more speakers who will be leading us in a motherhood apologetics equipping panel, which again,

00:03:41.320 I am just so excited about. It's going to be amazing. It's going to be here before you know it.

00:03:45.880 I don't want you to miss out. I don't want you to have FOMO. So Related Bros, those of you who are

00:03:50.820 listening to or watching this, you need to go to sharethearrows.com. Go ahead, get your girl,

00:03:57.340 get your Related Bell in your life tickets to Share the Arrows. Maybe go ahead and get two so she can 0.99

00:04:04.320 bring a friend or maybe you can collude with a fellow Related Bro and y'all can both get tickets

00:04:10.000 for your wives. They will be so excited and so pumped about that. We've got different VIP options 0.99

00:04:17.000 too, but the general admission is going to be amazing. I am so, so excited about the encouragement

00:04:23.000 that we will receive that day. And of course, I will be speaking too. I always forget to mention

00:04:26.680 that. So go to sharethearrows.com and get your tickets today. All right, let's talk about this

00:04:34.000 debate that is going on all over social media. It started last week when someone who I guess

00:04:42.380 fancies herself some kind of conservative commentator, although she is very pro-choice

00:04:47.840 and pro a lot of values that most conservatives and certainly Christian conservatives don't align

00:04:53.660 with. She posted a video talking about the trad wife trend and how conservatives, the Republican

00:05:02.200 party really shouldn't be promoting the trad wife lifestyle, shouldn't be promoting hobbies such as 0.99

00:05:08.760 baking sourdough. She says that she's all for it, that she promotes traditional values, but she also

00:05:16.820 says that you really need to find a new hobby that makes you money. She says, guess what,

00:05:23.440 baby girl, that lifestyle working out, a man, a provider, you just get to sit at home, bake bread

00:05:28.620 every day, slim to none. I would say none. And that's going to work out for you or quite literally

00:05:35.160 anyone you know. Is that the real transcript of what the video? Okay. I'm not totally sure exactly what

00:05:43.860 that means. And then she goes on to say, like, you guys are cringe. She says, okay, let's bring some

00:05:50.860 other things to the table besides sourdough. Guys want to be mentally stimulated as well as

00:05:56.480 physical. Okay. And so this caused a large debate online. People obviously took issue with what she 0.61

00:06:05.540 said. Steve Dace's daughter, Anastasia Hibb said, you need to follow God's calling for your life. If

00:06:12.220 he's calling you to stay at home and provide for your family by cooking, cleaning, and taking care of

00:06:15.820 children, then that is honorable because God called you to do so. Making fun of women because they're 0.88

00:06:21.240 following God's calling for their life is cringe. Joel Berry of the Babylon Bee said, my wife was

00:06:27.000 trad before it was a trend. We were willing to be poor to make it happen. Totally worth it. Stay at

00:06:31.860 home moms contribute more than sourdough. They're doing the most important work of all the formation 1.00

00:06:36.920 of the souls of our children. John Mason, whom we've talked to before, he says his wife had no

00:06:43.540 interest in being a trad wife, but she did have every bit of interest in being a biblical wife and

00:06:48.860 a mother at the age of 26. When we got married, she's a mother of six beautiful children that she's

00:06:53.920 raising, nurturing, equipping, and educating in Christ. Caitlin Francis is another ex-user. She says,

00:07:02.060 quoting, stay at home mom isn't intellectually stimulating. She says, ma'am, I have more conversations

00:07:07.020 with my children about theology, politics, history, and or culture before 9am than you could ever dream of

00:07:12.600 having with your woke co-worker in the break room. This is a random account, but this is just kind of

00:07:20.940 funny. She said, new E mom, I don't know who this person is. My husband doesn't want to be mentally

00:07:27.060 stimulated by me when he gets home at 7pm. He has to save up his final brain cell for whatever deep

00:07:32.220 philosophical question our four-year-old swings at him at bedtime. Gosh, that is so true. Okay,

00:07:39.740 so I obviously have thoughts about this as someone who has talked about this whole trad wife trend

00:07:45.160 in the past and who also is a traditional woman and who is a wife and a mom and a Christian. And I

00:07:52.420 think it's great for women to stay at home. Obviously, I have this podcast, which affords me a lot of 1.00

00:07:57.980 flexibility to still prioritize my family and doing something that I love and also feel called to.

00:08:05.140 But I do believe that there are some jobs that are simply not conducive to motherhood when your kids

00:08:12.400 are really little, like most corporate jobs, a lot of jobs that are completely inflexible. And so I am all

00:08:18.560 for moms staying at home full time. Now, that might mean she's also a sub stack writer. Maybe that means

00:08:24.740 that she is also, I don't know, a swim lesson teacher. Or maybe she also has an Etsy shop as an artist in some

00:08:32.760 way. Most moms that I know who stay home are also doing other things with the other talents that God 0.98

00:08:40.240 has given them while still prioritizing their kids and their family. And I think all of that is great.

00:08:49.420 What I don't agree with when it comes to this trad wife trend, as I've talked about many times,

00:08:54.900 is the attempt to make traditionalism or being a traditional wife and mom into an aesthetic.

00:09:03.020 The trad wife trend online is largely, not exclusively, but largely a cosplay by women who

00:09:10.860 are working while they're also telling you that they're not working and that you should not work.

00:09:16.700 So they're spending eight to 12 hours a day making content. And it's not the work that bothers me as

00:09:23.300 much as just the hypocrisy of that. I mean, I think that women can work in a way that allows 1.00

00:09:29.780 them to prioritize their family. This job allows me to do that. But there is a dishonesty in trying

00:09:37.880 to promote a particular lifestyle that makes it look like you live in the 1800s. And that makes it

00:09:44.280 seem like this is the only way to live the Christian biblical life, living on a homestead and, 0.84

00:09:51.700 you know, raising chickens and baking sourdough when that is not the same thing as being a biblical 0.91

00:09:56.560 woman. All of those things can be good. And there are millions of women across the country 1.00

00:10:01.200 who actually honestly live that life, but aren't trying to promote it as some kind of superficial

00:10:07.620 aesthetic. And a lot of the women, again, who are promoting that aesthetic and are trying to create 0.99

00:10:13.880 some kind of rule book for what it looks like to be a feminine woman or a biblical woman, 0.76

00:10:18.520 don't actually possess those values themselves. And so I've always said it's much more important to

00:10:25.200 be biblical than it is to be quote unquote traditional because traditions are started by

00:10:31.620 man and they can be really good, especially when they're rooted in scripture, but they have to be

00:10:37.140 rooted in scripture in order to be good. You can live a biblical life as a single woman or as a wife

00:10:45.740 that doesn't have children yet. You can live a biblical life of biblical womanhood if you live 0.98

00:10:52.340 in New York City or if you live in the middle of nowhere or if you live in the suburbs. And so I just

00:10:59.220 think it's really important that our standards are actually set by scripture and not by social

00:11:05.100 media. And so I'm not necessarily against all criticism of this like whole trad trend. What I am

00:11:12.720 against is this critique that if you are a stay at home mom or if you are a quote unquote traditional

00:11:19.560 wife that you are not being intellectually stimulated and that you are not able to bring

00:11:26.080 anything intellectually to your home or to your husband because that is just not true. So I have

00:11:33.140 three points to make on that and then I've got some sub theological points within that that I want

00:11:40.480 to make. So I'm going to take us on a journey here. So here's my first point. The first point

00:11:45.160 is that being intellectually stimulated is important for every person. You will never hear me say,

00:11:52.620 oh, well, there's just a season of time where you shouldn't be learning. You shouldn't be growing.

00:11:56.220 You shouldn't be reading. It's okay if you're dumb. It's not. Christians are called to love the Lord, 1.00

00:12:02.140 our God, with all of our heart, mind, soul, and strength. We are called if we are moms to teach our

00:12:07.920 children. We are called if we are any kind of Christian woman to mentor other women, to learn

00:12:13.920 from other mentors. That means that we should be reading our Bibles, that we should be talking about

00:12:20.520 the Bible. We should be knowing theology. We should have the ability to reason. We should be praying

00:12:25.940 for wisdom as the book of James tells us to do. And we should be applying all of these things to

00:12:31.280 whatever task is at hand. So whether you are single and working or whether you are a stay-at-home

00:12:37.800 mom, women have a brain. They have a brain that needs to be exercised and sharpened and used every 1.00

00:12:45.540 single day. Any hyper-patriarchy bro who asserts that it's unimportant for a woman to be smart or well-read

00:12:53.340 or well-spoken, I think is just insecure. And they are out of step, honestly, with church history. If you

00:13:00.020 look at the Puritans, if you go back to the women of the Bible, Lois and Eunice, that passed down

00:13:05.780 their Christian faith, their theology to Timothy, we see Achilla and Priscilla corrected the theology

00:13:13.780 of Apollos. And that was a couple, Priscilla obviously being the woman. But the Bible says

00:13:19.380 that both of them, they knew the gospel well, and they were able to correct the theology of this

00:13:25.180 very articulate Apollos. Mary's Magnificat demonstrates a deep understanding of theology.

00:13:32.320 Women in all stations should steward well the mind that God has given them for His glory and the good 1.00

00:13:39.440 of other people. In fact, if fewer women allowed our feelings to outpace our thinking, we would not have 0.97

00:13:48.440 so many of the cultural and moral issues we have today. We see that in how the majority of women vote. 1.00

00:13:53.860 Okay, so that's my first point. I agree or I think that women should be intellectually stimulated and 0.95

00:14:02.720 that we can and should bring a lot to the table intellectually. Number two, being a girl boss is 0.91

00:14:10.080 not always intellectually stimulating. In fact, many professions actually reward you for falling in

00:14:17.940 line, following protocol without asking questions, pleasing your boss, and that's it. In fact, in corporate

00:14:23.720 America, you are expected to censor your thoughts, police your speech, limit your creativity so that

00:14:30.900 you don't rock the boat. The right words, say the right words, follow the rules, and you can get ahead,

00:14:37.260 especially if you are a woman. Intellect, critical thinking, creativity are not required in many,

00:14:44.460 many jobs today. So I just want to say, working outside of the home or having like additional

00:14:50.060 hobbies outside of being a wife and mom does not guarantee that you are going to be smart,

00:14:56.500 that you are going to be challenged intellectually, and that you're going to be able to bring more

00:15:00.800 to the table regarding intelligence. There's just no guarantee of that because so many realms of the

00:15:07.900 world today outside of the home do not reward being smart and thinking critically. And here's the

00:15:15.400 third point. Here's where we're going to go on a little bit of a theological journey. Being a mom can absolutely

00:15:22.300 be intellectually stimulating. It absolutely can. A lot of it is more physically and emotionally tough in the

00:15:30.980 early years. But if you wait until your child turns four, five, and six, you will see that this is not a time as a

00:15:39.980 mom to be dumb. This is a time where we are using our brains a lot. You better be really smart because 1.00

00:15:46.380 your kids are about to ask you some really, really smart questions. As long as you're not pacifying

00:15:51.820 them with a screen all day and you're allowing their mind to work and observe things and ask questions,

00:15:58.740 they are going to ask you things that really challenge you. Now, let me give you a caveat before

00:16:04.580 I get into the rest of that point. I know that I say all of this as someone who has

00:16:09.980 a podcast. I write. I do speaking engagements. My husband and I work together full time. I have lots

00:16:15.960 of opportunity to talk to adults throughout most of my days. So I'm not discounting the importance of

00:16:22.700 having adult time in order to stimulate your mind. In fact, I think you should. You should be going to

00:16:28.380 church. You should be meeting up with other moms when you can, maintaining friendships however you can,

00:16:34.500 going to Bible study. Now, maybe you can't do all of that in one day or sometimes even in one week,

00:16:39.660 but it is important for adult community. But even outside of that, your kids, even if you stay at

00:16:48.620 home all day and you don't have other adult time, I can tell you when I don't have other adult time,

00:16:54.600 when I'm not podcasting, when I'm not talking to people about, you know, cultural things and

00:16:59.820 theology. My kids absolutely challenge me and challenge my brain and challenge my heart. And my

00:17:08.060 oldest especially has been asking so many good questions about creation, about the fall, about

00:17:15.640 heaven. Everything, it seems like, turns into some kind of opportunity to talk about what's true and

00:17:22.320 what's not. So when she asks me, for example, like, why did God put the snake in the garden? Or do bad

00:17:29.540 guys go to heaven? Or why did this is a recent one? Why do people celebrate Passover if kids died?

00:17:36.280 Like, I need to know my Bible to help navigate the right answers. And an aside on this point, but this is

00:17:46.900 like part of the journey. So it's a really important and kind of long aside. On this particular point,

00:17:53.140 I want to give a little bit of advice that I shared on Instagram, and I'm going to flesh it out. And

00:17:59.640 I'll show you how I kind of do this, not only with my kids, but with myself. So on these theological

00:18:06.220 questions that really challenge you, I just want to encourage you that you don't have to know

00:18:11.340 every answer. Maybe you're a new Bible reader, or maybe your child is asking a question that no one

00:18:17.640 fully knows because those questions exist. You know, scholars haven't even been able to answer

00:18:24.140 some of the questions that your kids are going to ask you. It is always safe to go back to the three

00:18:29.700 G's. And I will explain that in just a second. I will explain what the three G's are in a moment.

00:18:35.500 But let me pause and tell you about our sponsor for the day. And that is Seven Weeks Coffee. Y'all,

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00:19:54.500 That's sevenweekscoffee.com. Code Allie. Okay. When your child asks you a question,

00:20:05.420 you don't know the answer immediately, or maybe you do know the answer, but you just don't know

00:20:10.480 how to say it in a way that they will fully understand. Here are three things that you can

00:20:17.520 always go back to. It's a really safe way to answer any question about God or the Bible.

00:20:22.440 Number one, God's goodness. So God is good. Everything he does, he dies out of his goodness.

00:20:30.360 We know that. And then the second G is God's glory. God does everything for his own glory,

00:20:37.120 even when we don't understand it. And then the third G is the gospel. So God's goodness and glory

00:20:43.660 show up most in the gospel, which says God sent his only son, Jesus, to die on the cross for our sins

00:20:50.720 so that we could be friends with God and live forever with him. Everything points to that.

00:20:57.020 And actually, it's not just that these three Gs can help you answer questions that your kids ask.

00:21:03.060 They can help you in your own thinking as you think through the answers to questions for yourself,

00:21:10.120 or as you come across a passage that is really difficult and you don't really understand.

00:21:14.680 Maybe it's hard to see God's goodness and glory. I think this is true, especially throughout the

00:21:20.420 Old Testament. Don't beat yourself up for asking those questions or feeling uncomfortable. A lot of

00:21:27.380 the Bible is uncomfortable because not everything is prescriptive. A lot of it is just descriptive,

00:21:32.700 telling you terrible things that happened. But a lot of things we see God allowed happen,

00:21:37.900 or God even caused to happen or told his people to do that makes us feel uncomfortable today.

00:21:44.720 But when we shift our own thinking into focusing on the three Gs, how can I see God's goodness,

00:21:53.360 God's glory, and the gospel in this passage? It really shifts things. It really changes what we get

00:22:01.400 out of Scripture and how we seek God when we are reading Scripture. So let me give you an example of this.

00:22:07.460 The question that I got, why do people celebrate the Passover if the firstborn sons of Egyptians 0.98

00:22:15.100 died? And I'm not about to tell you what I said to my daughter. This is a lot deeper and more

00:22:21.660 complicated than that. But it's a good question for us, I think, as we're reading a passage like this.

00:22:28.000 So if we start with the knowledge that God is good, and he does things for his own glory,

00:22:34.840 and that the gospel truth that he would send his son to die for our sins exists throughout

00:22:42.480 Scripture, if we start with those assumptions, we can then understand that Passover is celebrated

00:22:48.660 not because of the death that occurred, but because God was making a way for his people to be saved.

00:22:55.340 So it took this action, this very tragic action, this killing, to convince Pharaoh to let God's people

00:23:02.860 go and to free them from slavery. And the lamb's blood that was placed over the door frames of the

00:23:11.080 houses of Israel that signaled God's Spirit to pass over them was actually a signifier of the gospel.

00:23:18.500 It was a signifier of what was to come, the blood of the final spotless lamb, Jesus, which cleanses us 0.58

00:23:25.080 from sin and saves us from eternal death. And also, an interesting point, in Exodus 4.22,

00:23:32.960 God calls Israel his firstborn son. So he says, you, I'm paraphrasing Egypt and Pharaoh, 0.79

00:23:40.000 you're killing and oppressing my firstborn. I will now kill yours. So here he kills his enemy's 1.00

00:23:47.840 firstborn son to save his own firstborn son, Israel. But in the New Testament, what does God do?

00:23:54.580 He kills his own son to save his enemies, who become his sons and daughters. So in the Old 0.77

00:24:02.840 Testament, God kills his enemy to save his children. In the New Testament, God kills his child to save

00:24:10.280 his enemies. How incredible is that? These are the verses that come to mind for me when I'm thinking

00:24:17.100 through that passage. And the first one is Romans 5.15. And it's, for if many died through one man,

00:24:25.560 so that's Adam's, trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that

00:24:31.700 one man, Jesus Christ, abounded for many. And then there's also Colossians 1. I love that whole chapter.

00:24:38.760 I always have. It refers to Jesus as the firstborn of all creation. So in verse 18, we read,

00:24:47.160 he is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent.

00:24:53.260 So above and before Israel is Jesus Christ, both the redeemer for Israel and for Gentiles. And in 0.64

00:25:01.040 verse 21 of Colossians 1, Paul says, and you who were once alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil

00:25:09.340 deeds, he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death in order to present you holy and

00:25:16.980 blameless and above reproach before him. So all of the death and the sacrifice and the warring for the

00:25:25.500 promised land and the punishment for sins and the celebrations of God's provision in the Old

00:25:32.500 Testament, all of it points to Jesus. All of it is a signifier of the Messiah that God had preordained

00:25:40.720 to save his people once and for all for their good and his glory. And all the pain and all the sickness

00:25:47.440 and all the sin and all the injustice that still goes on today, all of these two are signals of what

00:25:55.480 is to come. So the tension builds, Satan is desperate, evil abounds, and yet God is not doing

00:26:01.660 nothing about evil. His wrath is kindling. He will one day come back and avenge his people. He will punish

00:26:08.060 all wrongdoing. He will do away with wickedness forever and ever. Psalm 37 assures us of that. It assures

00:26:16.540 us that we have nothing to worry about when it seems like the bad guys are winning. God will take care of

00:26:22.920 them. And we can be at peace trusting that. So God is good and God will be glorified. And God's gospel

00:26:30.280 is the most prominent display of this goodness and glory. And it is woven throughout the Bible,

00:26:35.940 throughout history. It is the lighthouse guiding us home. And that kind of thinking, those three G's 1.00

00:26:42.440 can be applied to every single theological question, every single passage in the Bible.

00:26:48.500 And that shift in perspective, it will change how you read scripture and it will change how you teach

00:26:55.700 your kids. So to the moms, to the stay at home moms, to the Christian moms in particular, we are called to

00:27:05.600 not only put our bodies into motherhood, but our brains into motherhood, our hearts into motherhood.

00:27:12.500 And God has both called and equipped us to do that because we are raising the next generation

00:27:18.220 of moms and dads and leaders and missionaries and pastors and voters. And the last thing we need,

00:27:24.700 the very last thing we need is intellectually morally inept moms. And that is part of why, 1.00

00:27:33.380 by the grace of God, this show exists because women are smart and we have the capacity to think 1.00

00:27:39.460 and to reason and to research and to teach in the right context. Don't freak out and edify and mentor

00:27:46.880 and help shape culture in a way that glorifies God, to raise a respectful ruckus for the things that

00:27:53.380 matter, to push back against the lies that are most pervasive among women, like toxic empathy, 1.00

00:28:00.040 like the cult of self-affirmation. And guess what? You do not have to have a podcast or a platform to do

00:28:07.080 that. You don't have to be an influencer to have influence. You can do that as a mom. You can do

00:28:12.000 that as a wife. You can do that as a single woman. Another message you've heard me say is that your 0.99

00:28:16.680 Christian life, your calling does not start when you get married and have kids. Those things matter

00:28:22.620 immensely. They are so important. We should cherish them a lot more as a culture than we currently do.

00:28:28.080 But for the Christian woman out there who is waiting to become a wife and a mom, I always just want 1.00

00:28:32.760 to remind you that the fullness of joy is there for you right now in the presence of Christ, not when

00:28:39.660 your relationship status changes and not when you have children. That's actually a trick of the devil

00:28:45.380 to get you to be discontent and ungrateful for what you currently have to make you believe that you

00:28:52.080 cannot have peace and joy and fulfillment into some future date that may not even come, by the way.

00:28:59.260 Remember, today has enough trouble of its own. But those are my thoughts on that. That as a mom,

00:29:07.760 you have plenty that challenges you in all different kinds of ways. And let us just make sure,

00:29:13.640 though, that whether we're a mom or not, but especially if we're a mom, that we are stepping up

00:29:19.460 to the task and that we are using the fullness of the minds that God has given us to his glory for the

00:29:26.700 good of those around us, including for the good of our children. All right. That's all I want to say

00:29:32.680 to weigh in on that debate. And let's see. We've got about 18 minutes left. Brie, what should we do?

00:29:39.440 Should we go straight into the Met Gala or should I talk about Russell Moore?

00:29:45.420 Russell Moore Met Gala. He wasn't at the Met Gala.

00:29:48.260 No, believe it or not, he wasn't. Yeah.

00:29:50.220 Um, we got a lot of, a lot of outfits to review. Okay. You think we have 18 and a half minutes

00:29:55.480 worth of outfits? I'm not sure that we do. If you want to do Russell Brand or Russell Brand,

00:30:00.880 I keep saying that. You always say Russell Brand. Last week on the phone,

00:30:03.860 um, uh, Brie said, did you want to talk about that article that Russell Brand wrote about you?

00:30:10.340 And I was like, what? He won't come on my show, but he's writing articles about me.

00:30:16.780 That's really sad. Russell Brand won't come on the show. As far as we know.

00:30:21.220 No. Well, now he's got things going on. He's got, he's got legal, legal problems. So I don't know if

00:30:28.680 he can't even do something like that. No, Russell Moore. Okay. I guess, I don't know. Sometimes I go

00:30:33.840 back and forth as Russell Moore just like want attention. I don't know. I guess. Okay. I'll talk about it

00:30:39.860 quickly. Um, because the, the evangelical world, some people in the evangelical world just pretend

00:30:48.280 to be unable to grasp the argument of toxic empathy and the other works that are criticizing

00:30:56.720 the dominance of empathy as like the preeminent value in our culture today. Like, and the thing

00:31:04.160 is like you heard, um, you heard my guest last week, David Zweig, uh, say that he loves the concept

00:31:11.820 and the phrase toxic empathy. Now he is not a conservative. He is not a Christian. And yet

00:31:18.900 he fully grasped, uh, grasped the concept and he was able to apply it to a lot of the terrible

00:31:25.560 policy that we saw surrounding, uh, surrounding COVID. And yet people who claim to be Christians, 0.97

00:31:32.580 who claim to have a biblical worldview, pretend like they cannot wrap their mind around what the

00:31:38.340 argument is. Instead, they create these straw men and the straw man. And that means you're creating

00:31:44.260 an argument that doesn't actually exist. And you're fighting that when we should be steel manning an

00:31:49.640 argument. So you're trying to properly represent what your opposition says and then dismantle it.

00:31:54.840 But if you're straw manning it, then you are fighting against like a scarecrow. It's not a real

00:31:59.800 person. It's not real. So that is what is going on with so many, if not all of the professing

00:32:06.280 Christians I have heard that say, Oh my gosh, toxic empathy. You're saying all empathy is bad.

00:32:12.500 Oh no, we need more empathy. I can't believe that you're demonizing all empathy. This is just

00:32:17.540 gaslighting. All you have to do is read the subtitle of the book. And you know, that's not the argument,

00:32:23.160 how progressives exploit Christian compassion. And we go through five subjects. We go through

00:32:30.520 abortion. We go through gender. We go through marriage slash sexuality. We go through immigration

00:32:36.660 and we go through justice. And we look at the mechanisms that are in place to pull on people's

00:32:44.060 heartstrings to convince you that the only moral, compassionate, and empathetic position is to be

00:32:49.840 on the progressive side of all of these issues. It's not just about feeling for someone. It is

00:32:55.420 using empathy as a form of emotional manipulation, as a form of moral extortion to persuade you that

00:33:02.720 you must use someone's preferred pronouns, or you must be pro-choice, or you must be for light sentences

00:33:09.880 for, you know, in the name of racial equity. You must be for borderlessness in order to truly love

00:33:16.640 people because you feel so deeply for them when you hear their story. And my argument is not that

00:33:21.600 we shouldn't feel for people. It's that we are called to something better and deeper and truer than

00:33:25.900 this superficial toxic empathy, which actually blinds you to reality and morality. We are called

00:33:31.320 to the truth in love. 1 Corinthians 13, 6 says that love never rejoices in wrongdoing, but rejoices with

00:33:38.400 the truth. And since God is love, 1 John 4, 8, and he gets to define it, and he also is the source of

00:33:44.500 truth. There is no way that we can disobey God, disagree with God, and truly love our neighbor.

00:33:49.800 We just can't. The most loving thing we can do at all times is agree with God. Yet empathy doesn't

00:33:55.260 care about the truth. It simply puts yourself in someone else's shoes, and it stops there. It is

00:34:00.240 amoral. It is neither inherently immoral or moral. It is amoral. It really depends on which way you allow

00:34:07.440 your empathy to take you. Are you allowing your empathy to take you towards affirmation of sin

00:34:12.400 and validation of lies and the support of destructive policies because you feel so deeply for this one

00:34:18.160 person that's in front of you that you're ignoring the second order of facts? Or are you allowing your

00:34:23.300 empathy to simply see this person as an image bearer of God, to love them as Christ would love them,

00:34:29.600 and then you are refusing to support sin, but you are still grounded in the truth, and you are supporting

00:34:36.780 policies that are actually just and rooted in biblical justice and truth. So that's the direction. Those are

00:34:44.060 the directions that you can go with empathy, but toxic empathy is always bad. And if you're curious

00:34:48.720 about that, you are welcome. You are welcome to read the book, Toxic Empathy. It's a really quick read.

00:34:55.400 It's an easy read, but if I do say so myself, it is a very compelling read. I'm very thankful. It's a New York

00:35:00.240 Times bestseller. It's gotten a lot of criticism because of that, but thousands and thousands of you have also

00:35:07.220 just shared the errors with me, and it has helped and equipped you, and I'm very thankful for that.

00:35:11.700 Russell Moore, he is the editor-in-chief of Christianity Today. He has become very progressive over the years.

00:35:16.980 He used to be the head of the ERLC, Trump Derangement Syndrome. Same thing happened to David French.

00:35:22.480 He wrote a piece not too long ago comparing me because I said Matthew 25. Jesus is talking,

00:35:31.180 the least of these is not the world's poor. It's actually the least of these are brothers and

00:35:36.340 sisters in Christ who are being persecuted. He said that take is akin to being a 20th century

00:35:44.020 German soldier, so a Nazi. So he doesn't like me. Surprise, surprise. He's also going to misrepresent

00:35:50.200 my book. So the title of the article is Hellfire and Brimstone Empathy. So he says empathy is

00:36:03.880 necessary. He argues that empathy is necessary because if you are a pastor, for example, and you

00:36:12.340 have someone who has a drinking problem, you have to be able to put yourself in their shoes in order to

00:36:18.440 really understand what they're going through and therefore help them. He says, without empathy,

00:36:24.120 the problem is not simply that we will deny the humanity and created goodness of other people,

00:36:28.960 although that's certainly a problem, is that we will have a superficial view of sin,

00:36:32.600 seeing it in the cartoonish terms of a person who sets out to be a villain. Of course, that is

00:36:37.920 not the argument of toxic empathy at all. He might be referring to Joe Rigney's sin of empathy,

00:36:43.900 but that is also not his argument. So no matter how you shake it, he is misrepresenting what we

00:36:50.120 are saying, that empathy is powerful and it can very easily turn toxic and get you to support sin.

00:36:56.300 It is not about denying the humanity of a person. In fact, my book is all about seeing the Imago Dei,

00:37:03.720 especially in the first three chapters, and we have to keep that in mind in order to love someone well.

00:37:09.520 Empathy is not necessary to see the humanity in someone. And empathy is not necessary for the

00:37:16.100 pastor who is helping someone who is struggling with an addiction to alcohol. That could play a

00:37:23.040 part. Again, it's amoral, but it is not necessary. What is necessary in those situations for the

00:37:28.920 Christian is to know the truth and to love the person in front of us. And love is so much deeper

00:37:35.000 than empathy. We can love someone, treat them well, because that is the example that Christ set

00:37:41.160 out for us without putting ourselves in their shoes. We could do that. And in some cases,

00:37:46.920 it's really good to do that, but it's not always necessary to do that. To claim that empathy is the

00:37:52.860 necessary mechanism that Christians must employ to love people well, that is not biblical.

00:37:58.660 We simply do not see that in scripture. There is importance in understanding people's pain.

00:38:06.020 There may be, again, even importance at times of being able to put yourself in someone's shoes,

00:38:11.620 but you can love people without that. And to say that we're denying the Imago Dei because we're

00:38:16.700 questioning empathy as the highest value, I mean, that's just straight up slander. I guess in this

00:38:21.940 case, libel. All right. That's all I wanted to say to that. He would do very well to read the book,

00:38:27.080 as with David French. I sent David French a copy. I haven't heard back from him. I don't think that

00:38:33.560 he's read it. He also completely purposely misrepresented the book and the New York

00:38:37.640 Times. And this is malicious, by the way. It's not because they can't read or they don't have time to

00:38:41.840 read. It is malicious. They are purposely creating these evangelical conservative monsters to their

00:38:49.220 readers, knowing that the readers of the New York Times and Christianity Today aren't going to dig

00:38:53.500 into these things themselves. And they're just going to believe whatever these writers say.

00:38:58.180 And they've created this completely false caricature of us in their heads and then mission

00:39:04.100 accomplished for people like Russell Moore and David French. It's very sad. It's very sad the power

00:39:09.500 that Trump has had over people's spiritual lives. Like he really shouldn't. You shouldn't allow any

00:39:15.160 politician to push you in any direction like that. All right. We'll talk about the Net Gala.

00:39:20.960 Okay. She's, Brie is chomping at the bit, chomping at the bit. Like she's just so excited about this.

00:39:27.620 So let me, I got to pause though. I got to do an ad and then we'll get into the Net Gala.

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00:40:55.780 Okay, now we only have seven minutes, so we got to go through it. Speed run.

00:41:00.680 Okay, so tell us about the theme. Okay, so the exhibition, they always have an exhibition and

00:41:06.460 then like a dress code. The exhibition was called Super Fine Tailoring Black Style. And the dress code

00:41:12.740 was tailored for you. So the whole thing was about black menswear, which I think it's just

00:41:21.780 menswear. So that was the theme. Not black menswear. Black menswear. Like menswear that is black. 0.96

00:41:30.040 No, no. Not for black men. The men are black. Oh. Yeah, yeah. Oh. Yeah. Oh, okay. Yes. The clothes that black men 1.00

00:41:37.320 have worn in history. Oh. Yeah. Okay. Got it. Yep. So really, I think a lot of people took that as, 0.70

00:41:46.680 you know, it's just like normal menswear and tailored outfits and things like that. And so...

00:41:53.000 People just wear what they want. A lot of them just wear what they want. They don't care. At the

00:41:56.500 end of the day. Some of them you'll see are pretty on theme. And I will say, I love a good,

00:42:01.920 like, blazer. I love a good blazer on a woman. And so I think some of these are really, really fun

00:42:07.400 outfits. And so I think that this is one of the ones, this is one of the Met Gala themes that I've

00:42:12.400 liked. Okay. So I, Met Gala, we'll just remind everyone, it's supposed to be weird. People are

00:42:18.540 supposed to wear weird stuff. It's not necessarily just what looks good or what is in style. It's

00:42:24.280 supposed to be quirky. So as we are rating people one through 10, we are rating people based on

00:42:31.400 whether they fit the theme or whether we just like it. What's the rubric?

00:42:39.180 I don't think we have enough knowledge to know if it really fits the theme. I would say we're

00:42:44.380 rating based on if we like it. Vibes alone. 10 being the best. Yeah. One being the worst. Yeah.

00:42:50.060 Okay. Let's, let's just go through a minute order. Let's do Rihanna. 1.00

00:42:56.540 Um, okay.

00:43:00.760 Sure. I always have such a hard time seeing it because it's kind of far away and then I

00:43:05.320 have a glare on this one. Um, so she, she basically announced that she's pregnant. 1.00

00:43:11.360 Okay. I was about to ask that and I didn't want to, you know, better. It's hard to see in this

00:43:17.780 photo, but no, I can tell. Yeah. Well, good for her. Congratulations, Rihanna. I feel like if you're

00:43:23.180 going for menswear, this is like a feminine way to do that. I kind of like it. Like I'm probably

00:43:30.380 going to read it like, I don't know, an eight. Okay. Yeah. What do you think? Um, six. You'll see

00:43:38.820 the theme here. A lot of people just look like

00:43:41.360 like villains. Oh. Like with the hats. A lot of them went for that look. Are they trying

00:43:47.820 to? Why? I think that's just like their, what they took as the theme, I guess. Okay. Yeah.

00:43:53.800 Okay. Zendaya. Is that how you say it? I think so. Yeah. I mean, I love this on her. Everyone's

00:44:02.300 doing the like kind of shaded hat thing. The hat. Yep. Which I feel like is so Melania. Yep.

00:44:08.040 Sure. They don't mean to do that. I love, I mean, I actually don't love the hat as much

00:44:13.640 with this outfit. I love the outfit on her. I think it's tailored so pretty.

00:44:17.300 Yeah. She looks amazing. She always does though. She does. I don't know if she always does at the 0.71

00:44:22.720 Met Gala. Sometimes she has some weird stuff, but she's pretty known for being like a standout at 0.99

00:44:27.160 these things. I think she looks great. Yeah. Me too. I've never seen her talk. I've like,

00:44:32.360 I've only seen pictures of her. I don't think I've ever like watched her in a movie. Really?

00:44:36.600 Yeah. Wow. She's done a lot too. She was in Euphoria, which I never saw. It looked too

00:44:41.240 depressing for me. Spider-Man movies. Oh yeah. No, haven't seen any of that. Okay. See, I think

00:44:49.300 this is, maybe I rated Rihanna too high. Cause I think this is a lot better than Rihanna's. Like

00:44:53.380 I'm going to go with a nine and a half. I'm docking half a point. Cause I actually like think that the

00:44:57.440 hat could have been different. Okay. Yeah. I would have said a nine. Okay. Okay. Um,

00:45:05.020 Jenna Ortega, let me tell y'all, I tried to say who I, she was like, Oh, did you see any outfits?

00:45:11.920 I was like, yeah, Jenny Ortega. And Brie was like, who, who is that? I've never, she was like, Oh,

00:45:18.760 Jenna Ortega. And I was like, so surprised that Brie didn't know. Cause she knows all

00:45:25.420 celebrities, but. Okay. Can I just say though, in my defense, there is a pretty famous guy named

00:45:30.300 Kenny Ortega. That's who I may have thought you were talking about at first. Oh, okay. So

00:45:36.840 it's okay. Brie knows she knows. Okay. I like this one because I think it's a beautiful dress on her.

00:45:42.440 Like I just fits her so well. And it's made out of rulers, which I think is interesting.

00:45:49.760 I don't know if that has something to do with tailored, like measuring. I'm not sure you don't

00:45:56.380 use those kinds of rulers for measuring. What do you think? I think she, I mean, it fits her so well.

00:46:02.740 Yeah. And I think it's unique. I think it's creative. I think it's really comfy. She always looks really

00:46:07.760 spooky. I think she's in that show Wednesday playing Wednesday Adams and she looks so much

00:46:13.580 older. Like I know, I know. I thought she was a child, but also she's kind of taken on that persona

00:46:18.720 in real life. So yeah, she always kind of looks a little bit dark. How do you sit down? I don't know.

00:46:28.020 Um, okay. I'm going to rate this again. I rated Rihanna too high. Cause now I feel like I have to,

00:46:35.120 cause okay. I'm going to lower Rihanna to a seven. Like I would probably call this maybe not as good

00:46:40.500 as Zendaya. So I'd probably call it like an 8.5. Okay. I was going to say eight. Okay. Uh, Lisa.

00:46:48.440 I don't know if she has a last name. She doesn't. Okay. This is a K-pop person. Yeah. She was in the

00:46:54.800 band, uh, the K-pop band Blackpink. Now she's doing her own thing. Is she Korean? She, so she's, 0.87

00:47:02.400 I think from Thailand, but yeah, it was a Korean band. Yeah. Okay. So the re we can't zoom in here

00:47:09.400 because it'd be weird. But the reason why people are talking about this is because it looks like

00:47:15.080 on her, I don't know if she's wearing like a corset type thing underneath this, like a onesie 1.00

00:47:21.380 situation, but it looks like Rosa Parks's face is on her crotch. Yeah. You heard that right. Yeah. 1.00

00:47:28.760 Little did Rosa Parks know when she refused to get up from her seat that her face would be on a K-pop 1.00

00:47:38.000 star crotch many years later. She could only dream. I know. Yeah. I have a dream. It seems a little bit

00:47:45.620 different than this. Um, just weird. Is it Rosa Parks? I haven't verified, but that's what it looks like.

00:47:52.260 There are, I think, uh, like a bunch of different faces on that underwear. It's like a pattern made up of

00:47:57.820 faces. Okay. Um, so that's the one that people are. Okay. But is it because we're honoring black men?

00:48:04.200 And so that's supposed to be like a black hero. Yeah. And she is from Thailand. Yeah. Okay. There's

00:48:11.080 also controversy because she supposedly has said the N word before and never apologized. And people are

00:48:16.760 really upset about that too. So that's why this is her making up for it. This is her attempting to

00:48:22.260 make up for it. Okay. Let's do just like a couple more. Let's do, which ones should we do? Okay. Wait,

00:48:29.220 let's do Gail King. Let's do Gail King. No, I'm sorry. Um, no, I'm going to probably do three.

00:48:40.340 Yeah. I was going to say two. This is awful. Yeah. It just doesn't fit very well at all.

00:48:48.360 I guess I can kind of see the theme with the lapels. Maybe that's supposed to be like a suit.

00:48:52.580 I just don't think it fits well. Yeah. I think in another style, the purple could work with her,

00:48:58.060 but no, no, no, no. So, okay. I said three. You said, uh, did I say a number? Now I can't remember

00:49:05.520 two. I'll give her a two. Okay. Let's do Emma Chamberlain. She's such an interesting 1.00

00:49:10.320 human to me. Yeah. So this is, there's no back. It's like a one strap. Yeah. I don't like it

00:49:20.820 personally. I'm probably going to go with a four better than Gail King. Wow. Better than Gail 0.99

00:49:27.300 King's probably. Cause it's like, I don't know if it's a little more on theme and I feel like she's

00:49:32.820 trying, but I don't like it. I don't like how it fits at all. No, I don't like it. Yeah.

00:49:39.840 I'm giving it a three. Okay. Um, I want to do Sabrina and Lizzo, but do you want to do Andre?

00:49:47.680 Is that important to you? Yeah. You got to look at Andre. Okay. Andre.

00:49:51.360 Okay. So he's carrying a backpack. He's carrying a piano. I mean, he's carrying a piano as a backpack

00:49:57.700 is what I meant to say, which is much more important to note. I have no idea what this

00:50:04.520 is attempting to do. No, I don't know even how to rate this. Cause it's not even about his outfit.

00:50:11.860 It's about his piano. I'm like, can you, we just do anything? Like, could I wear a live ostrich on my

00:50:19.620 head and be like, this is the theme. Probably you'd get talked about. They'd be like, there's some deep

00:50:24.620 meaning here. Yeah, exactly. I know. Maybe that AOC wore eat the rich. Yes. To the Met Gala. LOL.

00:50:36.600 Yep. Um, okay. I don't know what to rate it. Seven for effort. Honestly, I'll give it a nine for

00:50:44.260 effort. I kind of love it. I love the unhinged ones. So yeah, it's so unhinged. Do you think it's a,

00:50:49.600 like, how much do you think that weighs? I, it doesn't, it didn't look like it was very heavy.

00:50:55.200 Okay. So like, it's like cardboard, not a real piano. That would be impressive. That'd be

00:51:01.680 impressive. Yeah. I have just have no idea. I'd be curious to know what this means. Okay. Sabrina

00:51:06.320 Carpenter. Um, I just feel like this is inappropriate. Um, but I know it's like her. I mean,

00:51:19.240 she looks really pretty, but this was a common theme. I'll say a lot of girls showed up with 0.99

00:51:28.340 like in leotards, but with a suit jacket over it. And Lisa was in that too. So a lot of them

00:51:33.960 were kind of wearing the same thing. Yeah. Okay. I'm going to give it a five or six. Maybe

00:51:41.400 five. I think she looks really good. I mean, I don't love the no pants, but I think she looks

00:51:45.040 good. I'll give her a seven. Okay. Uh, Lizzo.

00:51:47.780 Okay. That's not at all what I was expecting. I mean, she looks amazing. Like she is on a

00:52:02.640 fitness journey. The blonde hair is interesting. Yeah. You know what? My culture is not your

00:52:11.380 costume. Um, but the dress is pretty on her. I mean, obviously it's showing a lot up there. 0.93

00:52:21.240 Yeah. But for her, I'm probably going to give this like

00:52:26.780 a 6.8 minute. Maybe seven, maybe seven, seven and a half. I don't know. It's pretty good for her.

00:52:35.960 Yeah. I was going to say eight. I think she looks amazing. And I also, I think that the platinum 0.99

00:52:40.420 blonde hair kind of works for, for this outfit at least. Yeah. I like it. It's like a thing for

00:52:46.320 people to have platinum blonde hair right now. Yeah. Um, she's got blue lips. Is that blue? 1.00

00:52:51.280 Hmm. Can't see that close. I wonder what black man has worn this dress.

00:52:58.140 I'm just so confused about whether people care about the theme or not. I don't think most people

00:53:04.120 do. I just don't. Yeah. No, you'd kind of just, I guess they pair up with a designer and they just

00:53:10.520 kind of do whatever they want. I think what they should just do is what they did a few years ago.

00:53:14.720 It was camp. Yeah. And every, it just, every year is camp. You should just make it camp

00:53:20.480 because that's what people are going to do anyway. Yeah. Just wear the craziest thing you can find.

00:53:26.340 I know. Yep. Do we have Pedro Pascal this year? I hadn't seen him. Remember people thought that we

00:53:33.760 were mean. Cause I said he looked like Lucifer's nephew. Yeah. In the shorts he was wearing. Classic

00:53:39.200 moment. Uh, but it was true. It was true. There were a lot of men wearing things that were feminine.

00:53:46.400 So I don't know. We can't celebrate cross-dressing, but women can get away with wearing men's clothes 0.97

00:53:52.220 that are feminine more than men can get away with that. Okay. Sure try. Yep. Any last thoughts on the

00:53:59.820 Met Gala? Um, no, like I said, I liked the outfits at this one more than I typically do,

00:54:05.880 but I think that's just cause everyone stuck with like tailored suits. So it seemed more normal than

00:54:12.300 usual. Yeah. Zendaya is the winner to me. Yeah. Oh, she looks so good. Okay. That's all we've got

00:54:17.760 time for today. We will be back here tomorrow with Michael Knowles and we will be talking about the Pope

00:54:24.660 and what's going on there and Catholicism and all kinds of good stuff. That'll be a fun conversation.

00:54:30.860 See you guys then.

00:54:35.880 Bye.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - May 06, 2025

Ep 1184 ｜ Are Stay-at-Home Moms Dumb？

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