Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - May 08, 2025


Ep 1186 ｜ From Crunchy to Cultish： The Deconstruction of 'Rose Uncharted'


Episode Stats

Length

57 minutes

Words per Minute

160.56836

Word Count

9,274

Sentence Count

629

Misogynist Sentences

4

Hate Speech Sentences

20


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.620 A popular Instagram influencer, Rose Uncharted, has announced her deconstruction and has been
00:00:07.980 promoting the idea of Christ consciousness. Is this liberation or is this an age-old cultish
00:00:17.200 false teaching? You can probably guess what I think, but we will take you through this journey
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00:01:07.640 Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Thursday. Hope everyone is having a wonderful week so far.
00:01:14.280 All right. Today we are going to get into a subject that I've been wanting to talk about for a while,
00:01:19.100 but it is so deep with so many different layers. I just wanted to make sure that we are fully
00:01:24.840 prepared. And that is talking about a deconstruction journey of a particular influencer that has been
00:01:32.460 over the past few years, extremely popular in the crunchy mom world. I've received a ton of messages
00:01:39.420 about her recent posts talking about what I would call what she believes is some kind of liberation
00:01:47.820 from the constrictions of traditional religion. And this is not an attack on this individual person.
00:01:55.980 I'm not trying to even focus on this one individual, but the content that she has publicly
00:02:03.540 produced and published on her Instagram is a really good example of false teaching that Christians need to
00:02:13.380 be really aware of, especially the demographic in my audience. The Christian on the crunchy side mom
00:02:21.820 that tends to question authority and question the government and push back against arbitrary rules.
00:02:29.720 All of those things are great. I fall into those categories too. And a lot of Christians do.
00:02:36.660 However, there is, I think, a susceptibility because of those character traits that we have,
00:02:44.540 because we like to ask questions, to be attracted to certain forms of false teaching, perversions of
00:02:53.220 Christianity that bill themselves as getting out of these constraints and thinking outside of the box,
00:03:02.480 but is really just work of the devil, is really just an antichrist philosophy. So this particular
00:03:10.940 influencer, she goes by the moniker Rose Uncharted. And again, this is not an attack on her. In fact,
00:03:18.800 I feel very sad about all the things that we are going to talk about today, but I am even sadder,
00:03:27.320 not just for her. I'm even sadder for those in her audience that have trusted her for several years,
00:03:34.540 have looked to her even as a Christian or a biblical voice, and now are being led astray by a kind of
00:03:43.900 ideology that leads straight to hell. That's how serious it is. Okay, what we're talking about today,
00:03:50.000 they're not just differences of doctrinal opinions. They're not secondary and tertiary issues.
00:03:54.960 We are talking about a very serious and at sometimes a very persuasive distortion of
00:04:01.660 the gospel. And so the reason I'm talking about it is because I think there's a lot of overlap in
00:04:07.400 our audience, because I really care about the truth, because I want you, when you see this kind
00:04:15.340 of language, when you see this kind of unraveling happen among other people that you follow or people
00:04:21.860 in your lives, I want you to be able to spot the language and to see that is a false teaching.
00:04:29.680 That is new age. That is outside of scripture that is not going to give me the freedom, the happiness,
00:04:35.700 the fulfillment that I am looking for. So let me tell you what's been going on. Maybe you're totally
00:04:41.880 unaware of this. This still really applies to you too, even if you haven't followed this person,
00:04:46.300 because this kind of deconstructive narrative, as we've been talking about for years now,
00:04:51.720 is extremely pervasive. And you'll see why it's attractive to so many people, I would say,
00:04:57.640 in particular, women. So this person, Rose Untarted, she's got over 165,000 followers. She became really
00:05:05.700 popular during COVID because she pushed back, rightly, against a lot of the COVID regulations. That just
00:05:12.640 didn't make sense. We're restricting our freedoms. We're actually counterproductive to making us
00:05:17.860 healthier, especially when it came to widespread mask mandates and vaccine mandates. And so that is
00:05:25.100 why a lot of people in my audience, and I might've even followed her for a while too, but why a lot of
00:05:30.440 women followed her? Because she was this very bold voice. She is a mom. She is holistic. She's for
00:05:37.280 natural medicine and natural birth. She asks questions about typical Western medicine. And
00:05:46.700 that is something that a lot of people in the conservative Christian mom crowd do as well.
00:05:52.280 And she was kind of leading the charge in a lot of this. And she was also using scripture to do so,
00:05:59.380 or she was using what seemed like kind of Christian ideas. Now, I don't think, I don't know if I ever
00:06:05.400 followed her. I don't follow her now, and I haven't followed her for a very long time, if I ever did.
00:06:11.080 But certainly, like, the language that she kind of used surrounding Christianity was not something
00:06:17.180 that was appealing to me. They were kind of these, to me, name it and claim it concepts, which is also
00:06:24.180 something that is unfortunately extremely pervasive in, like, the conservative, crunchy world,
00:06:30.660 and almost ethereal and close to scriptural, but not quite. But yeah, I could see how if someone
00:06:39.440 liked her and liked her anti-COVID regulations content, that you would appreciate that she
00:06:45.960 sprinkled scripture in, that she talked about God every now and then. And we started to see,
00:06:53.580 I started to get messages about this, about a year ago, that she was beginning to deconstruct.
00:07:01.420 Now, if you don't know what deconstruction is, I would say it's a very polite euphemism
00:07:07.940 to describe the process that a Christian goes through when they no longer believe what the Bible
00:07:16.380 teaches about a lot of things. In general, I'm not even talking about this individual. In general,
00:07:23.760 it usually has to do with social issues and politics. Very often, I see someone who they
00:07:30.720 have someone in their life who has just come out as gay. They've started to question the things about
00:07:37.580 gender, about identity, sexuality, or maybe they just didn't like Donald Trump. They don't like the
00:07:44.640 Republican Party. They were hurt by the conservative evangelical church that they grew up in.
00:07:50.020 So because of that, from that place of hurt or from that place sometimes of empathy, they start to
00:07:57.320 deconstruct. They start to look at the parts of the Bible that they think have justified, the things
00:08:02.620 that they disagree with and that have hurt them, and they throw those away. And then they are kind of
00:08:08.280 left with remnants of the Bible that I think by themselves don't give you a full or accurate
00:08:19.180 picture of what Christianity really is or who Jesus really was. They almost always become progressive.
00:08:25.320 They almost always become progressive socially, morally, culturally, politically, and they begin to
00:08:34.420 reject the idea of heaven and hell, of punishment, of judgment, of Jesus actually dying on the cross
00:08:42.780 for our sins. Very often, they end up going into the realm of universalism. They end up rejecting
00:08:50.940 John 14, 6, that Jesus is the way, the truth, and life, that no one can come to the Father except
00:08:56.160 through him. And so that's kind of what ends up happening. Now, some people deconstruct,
00:09:02.240 and they make their way back. And that is beautiful. They can give us a lot of wisdom,
00:09:07.500 like Elisa Childers, whom we've had on this podcast. She's spoken at Share the Arrows.
00:09:11.760 She's talked about that journey. There are people who have that as their testimony.
00:09:17.040 And there are people who have to disentangle, as Ginger Duggar Volo has told us, who will also be at
00:09:22.020 Share the Arrows. She had to disentangle some of the legalism that she grew up with, that it wasn't
00:09:27.560 actually biblical, some of the things that she believed in practice when she grew up.
00:09:31.540 And so she disentangled from that, but she didn't move further away from the Bible and
00:09:36.800 further away from the gospel. She moved more deeply into the Bible to see what does God really
00:09:41.940 say? And what is the gospel really? Like, what is the freedom that is found in Christ? What does
00:09:48.680 that really look like? So that is different than the deconstruction, which instead of moving deeper
00:09:53.700 into scripture, instead of assuming in humility that maybe we just don't understand everything,
00:09:58.780 maybe our discomfort isn't an indicator that the Bible is wrong, but an indicator that we are wrong
00:10:04.900 and that we need to be helped and we need to be sanctified. So the deconstructionist moves outside
00:10:09.900 of scripture to other sources. And that is typically how the journey goes in thinking they've discovered
00:10:15.780 something so big and so much bigger than Christianity and the Bible and all of that. So just to define that
00:10:23.540 term of deconstruction. But Rose Uncharted posted something in April of 2024. She said the liberation
00:10:31.940 that comes from not having to categorize everything into the dualism of good or bad. It's not about
00:10:37.720 indifference or apathy. It's understanding the vast spectrum of existence without the need to classify
00:10:42.560 or judge it. And actually a commenter under that post from a year ago says, the caption seems a
00:10:48.720 long way to say you're deconstructing and that definitive truth doesn't exist, that your truth
00:10:54.240 changes. Humility and acknowledgement that your understanding of the world is not absolute is
00:10:59.520 wise, but this is why God makes it crystal clear what is good and what is bad. So our human lens doesn't
00:11:05.180 get in the way. So I think that that's a really wise comment. It seems like a lot of her followers at the
00:11:11.440 time realize that, okay, this is what's happening. That there is a deconstruction happening here.
00:11:19.200 She seems to be abandoning the true principles of Christianity and that is worrisome. We'll get
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00:12:52.600 And then in May of last year, she posted a real, do you have a biblical worldview or do you have a
00:12:58.620 worldview shaped by your subcultures version of Christianity? Okay. That's something that I've
00:13:05.480 seen progressive say a lot. Like you can't say what a biblical worldview is. It's completely subjective
00:13:11.100 and you are actually just influenced by your political party or America or your Western lens
00:13:21.740 and you don't actually have a biblical worldview. In November of 2024, she announced that she is
00:13:30.880 looking into or that she is practicing astrology. So she said, Pluto is now in Aquarius, the age of
00:13:42.500 unchecked authority and power imbalances is over. All right. So this is like as good as of an
00:13:52.400 announcement that you are departing from Christian principles as any. We know that astrology
00:13:59.120 is divination. And divination is the attempt to interact with the divine or what you think is the
00:14:08.180 divine, the supernatural outside of the biblical channels of prayer, outside of the regulations that God
00:14:17.280 in his grace, in his goodness, in his clarity has given us. So you're looking for divine power,
00:14:23.640 divine wisdom outside of the source of these things in astrology or in a medium, in the dead. All of these
00:14:34.980 things count as sorcery and divination. Astrology is a part of that. So just as an aside, you don't need to
00:14:41.160 know your zodiac sign. It tells you nothing that is demonic and you need to depart from that. If you are still
00:14:47.460 reading like your little astrology sign readings in your magazine, when I was growing up, it was like
00:14:53.700 in 17 magazine and you could read like what boy is going to IM you back that month based on your
00:15:00.680 zodiac sign, whatever it is today, however you are reading your zodiac signs today, you got to get out
00:15:07.880 of that. Okay. It's demonic and it is going to pull you further away from Christ, further away from the
00:15:14.540 truth, not help you really understand more about yourself. Only the God who created you can help
00:15:20.200 you understand more about yourself. And God knew that astrology and divination and sorcery, that it's
00:15:27.200 from the devil, because there aren't three powers. There are only two powers. There's Satan's powers,
00:15:31.860 the prince of the power of the air, as we read in Ephesians 2. And then there's God's power. There is
00:15:36.020 light and there is darkness. So everything that is not of God is of Satan. So sorcery, divination,
00:15:42.200 mediums, trying to communicate with the dead, witchcraft, magic, all of that kind of stuff. I'm not just
00:15:48.700 talking about like fictional magical stories, like the lion, the witch, and the wardrobe, but stuff that
00:15:53.120 is actually trying to be practiced today using power that is not God's. All of that is of Satan. And God
00:15:59.420 wants to protect us from that. He wants to protect us from the burden that that places on us to believe
00:16:04.960 that we are our own gods and we have that power in ourselves because we make terrible gods and it's a
00:16:10.720 burden that we are not strong enough to bear. And he wants to protect us from the predation of Satan
00:16:15.780 who seeks to kill, steal, and destroy, not actually help us. Okay? So there's a reason that God warrants
00:16:22.460 his people in the Old Testament against divination. Deuteronomy 18, 10 through 12 says,
00:16:27.320 there shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering,
00:16:33.060 anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens. So he is literally putting,
00:16:38.840 God is putting psychics in the category of people who sacrifice their children. Because we see
00:16:44.900 throughout history that those kind of pagan practices end up going hand in hand. I am not
00:16:49.500 saying, because we've had ex-psychics on the show, I am not saying that they are simultaneously
00:16:54.940 practicing those things or that they even are condoning those practices, all people who dabble in
00:17:01.060 astrology and things like that. But God is telling us those two things in cultures, in societies,
00:17:06.700 tend to go together. He also says in Deuteronomy, a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer,
00:17:14.820 so that's someone who's communicating with the dead. We're not supposed to communicate with the
00:17:18.640 dead. Remember that. Or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination
00:17:24.340 to the Lord. And because of these abominations, the Lord your God is driving them out before you.
00:17:31.660 Okay? So astrology is not okay. We had a lot of commenters, thankfully, biblically sound commenters
00:17:39.120 comment on that post and say, oh, this is not cool. And then in February 2025, we had the post that
00:17:46.380 officially announced the deconstruction, where she posted an Instagram reel. Well, okay, actually,
00:17:53.740 no, we're not there yet. This was a hint at the deconstruction. Posted an Instagram reel that she was
00:17:59.140 lip syncing the lyrics of a song, Get Lost, that talks about some kind of liberation from man-made
00:18:05.680 religion. And then in the caption, she said, stepping out of religion feels like stepping out of a room
00:18:12.300 that was never built for me in the first place. It was never about truth. It was about pledging
00:18:16.160 allegiance to the Bible, not as something to seek and wrestle with, but as something already decided
00:18:21.840 for you, imposed upon you, interpreted for you by men through the ages with a variety of intentions,
00:18:28.520 good and bad. I've come to believe. So actually, I guess this is an announcement. My note said that
00:18:34.180 this was hinting at it, but this seems like an announcement to me. I've come to believe Christianity
00:18:39.720 is a corrupt and flawed man-made system designed to keep us afraid of ourselves, afraid of our own
00:18:46.460 instincts, afraid of wanting more, afraid of our very own hearts. She says, now the unknown is no longer
00:18:53.900 a threat to me. No more measuring every step against an old ledger of sin and salvation because
00:18:59.900 freedom isn't about answers. It's about movement. I'm dancing at the edge of the map, realizing that
00:19:06.140 home is in a single place, yada, yada, yada. So she's saying that outside of religion, she has been
00:19:12.280 able to really find God for herself. And then we also see in February 2025, the Western versus Eastern
00:19:24.560 comparison. And gosh, I see this so much in progressive circles, the demonization of the
00:19:30.460 Western lens and the Western mentality as if Western civilization, because of Christianity,
00:19:36.560 isn't responsible for the concept of human rights. Like I loathe that it is such a, like, I hear that
00:19:45.680 in sermons and in women's Bible studies all the time. We just have to forget our Western lens or put
00:19:51.360 off our Western lens, but we never tell people to put off their Eastern lens as if like Eastern means
00:19:58.000 good and right, and that they can see God better, understand God better just because they might be
00:20:03.520 geographically a little bit closer to Jerusalem. I just think that's silly. Like Eastern philosophy
00:20:09.960 is extremely vulnerable as well to all kinds of false teaching, all kinds of mysticism and new age.
00:20:17.320 In fact, it is Eastern mysticism making its way into the United States, wetting itself with
00:20:22.080 progressivism and the prosperity gospel that has really created this unholy trinity of deadly ideology
00:20:30.080 that I think women are very attracted to. So she made a post in February of 2025,
00:20:36.780 talking about Western versus Eastern that, you know, um, the perspective, she's had a perspective
00:20:45.560 shift that has been liberating, um, felt restricted within Christianity. And she said she has fondness
00:20:57.540 for times under the Christian label, but now she's deepening her, um, deepening her spirituality by
00:21:07.020 looking at other perspectives. And then she mentions a podcast, which everyone needs to be aware of. And
00:21:13.360 I've heard this podcast, I've heard about this podcast before, and it is a podcast that was created
00:21:20.520 by someone named Marty Solomon. It's supposed to be a discipleship tool, um, but it is basically
00:21:28.320 encouraging deconstruction. It is encouraging a questioning of the Bible from a progressive
00:21:35.360 perspective. If you look at a lot of the resources that are referenced in this podcast that she recommends
00:21:42.560 and says she learns from, we've got, for example, we've got Brian D. McLaren. McLaren is widely regarded
00:21:50.200 as a leader in the deconstruction movement. He said in the past that homosexuality is not sinful. He encourages
00:21:56.040 people to doubt the Christian faith. Rob Bell, you'll probably remember a lot. Rob Bell, he wrote that book,
00:22:01.480 Love Wins. He expressed a universalist sentiment that basically love wins. So everyone gets to go to heaven
00:22:08.840 one day. Rachel Held Evans. She died a few years ago, but she was also extremely progressive,
00:22:17.120 extremely pro-LGBTQ, questioning the traditions of the faith. And then you've got several other
00:22:23.380 authors like that. And then you've got this person. Well, okay, let me mention Sarah Bessie. You remember
00:22:28.260 Sarah Bessie? Um, I'm pretty sure she's the person that wrote that compilation of prayers a few years
00:22:35.160 ago. This would have been 2021 that I talked about this and it was included in her compilation of
00:22:41.440 prayers and devos for women was literally titled a prayer to hate white people. Okay. So these are
00:22:48.680 the people that are apparently the Sherpas leading people outside of a Christian faith into a more
00:22:54.100 quote unquote liberated faith. And then we've got this really important person that we are going to
00:22:58.820 talk about more deeply. And that is Richard Rohr. Richard Rohr is the founder of the Center for
00:23:05.780 Action and Contemplation. He founded that in 1987. He is maybe not the founder of, but probably the
00:23:12.760 biggest propeller of this idea of Christ consciousness. And so just remember that Christ
00:23:20.980 consciousness, cosmic Christ, because we're going to get into that. We can see in the post that we're
00:23:27.640 about to talk about that Rose Uncharted has been, whether she even knows it or not, extremely
00:23:33.920 affected by Richard Rohr, who is not in any sense of the word, a true Christian does not believe in
00:23:41.140 Christian values or Christian doctrines, but uses, and this is what all cults do. This is what many
00:23:47.020 false teachings do. He uses some Christian language to make you believe that what he is preaching is the
00:23:53.420 real Christianity, that what you've learned and what you've heard and what has been passed down for
00:23:58.620 thousands and thousands of years through the word of God, that that's not real. That's not right.
00:24:03.700 I've got something special that I can access and you can access too if you listen to me. Yes,
00:24:08.320 that's what cult leaders do. And so Richard Rohr is very, very big in that movement. So we'll get
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00:25:31.580 In March 2025, Rose Uncharted posted this reel about the remembering. And I just want to show
00:25:44.320 it to you because actually the visuals in this video, I think, are very important. They're very
00:25:49.000 significant. They were purposely curated to communicate a particular message. And I think
00:25:53.080 that message is important. Here's that one. I remember. And in this remembering, I like the first
00:26:16.780 thing. This flame was buried when the old world took the throne. This is the remembering of the
00:26:30.260 light that always belonged to you. All right. So what she is trying to communicate here seems to be
00:26:38.440 what she has been hinting at for a long time, that religion or man-made philosophies, ideologies,
00:26:43.860 those are really holding you back. Christianity as a tradition is what she would call a man-made
00:26:50.680 religion. That is holding you back. That seems to be what she is communicating here. I will say,
00:26:57.100 whether she intends this or not, the symbolism and the actions taken in this video look a lot like
00:27:04.280 witchcraft. It looks a lot like witchcraft. The lighting of the torch, the empowerment,
00:27:12.820 empowerment. And there's more that she says. She says, I am here to say, yes, this is the remembering
00:27:20.460 of the light that always belonged to you. A light that no priest, no king, no system can mediate.
00:27:25.380 The light in your body and soul, older than doctrine, older than empire. It's another word
00:27:31.240 important to remember. Older than forgetting itself. I light this torch because I remember,
00:27:35.820 and now so will you. If your bones hum as I speak, if your skin prickles. So see that emotionalism
00:27:41.340 right there. If your body leans forward without knowing why, it's because you were always meant to
00:27:46.140 remember too. This was always a part of you. This also really reminds me, you know, I've talked to
00:27:52.600 the guys from Cultish for a while. And so I have like all of these, you know, different facts about
00:27:59.700 the different cults because of a lot of the ex-cultists that I've talked to as well. But this is very
00:28:05.740 typical in the new age. It's typical in all different kinds of cults. This idea that, oh,
00:28:13.040 you feel a certain way about what I'm saying because that is the divine or that is a spark in you or that
00:28:20.320 is your ancestors or that is, you know, some kind of deep primal knowing in you that what I'm saying
00:28:27.700 is true and you belong here. And look, you can make people feel a lot of things through visuals
00:28:33.600 and what you're saying. And that's not always wrong as long as what you are saying is true.
00:28:40.660 And then we've got the conversation, and this will go back to Richard Rohr and the Christ
00:28:44.640 consciousness. We've got the conversation about Christ frequency. So there's a post from April,
00:28:53.440 2026, 2025 rather. The Christ frequency was never meant to be contained. It was meant to awaken. But
00:29:01.220 when empire saw how powerful it was, it did what empire always does. It institutionalized it. The
00:29:08.120 way of inner liberation became a tool of outer control. A living current was translated into
00:29:13.220 doctrine, hierarchy, and fear. You see the assumption there. The assumption is that tradition and that any
00:29:21.220 form of hierarchy and that doctrine are all bad, and that what she is preaching, which is very unclear
00:29:29.680 and extremely vague and extremely subjective and based on your own personal feelings, that that is
00:29:36.600 liberation, but that the Bible in these doctrines and theology, that all of that is restrictive.
00:29:44.320 And then she posted this, April, 2025. Christ is not a person. Christ is not a person. It's a frequency,
00:29:53.380 a radiant, holy remembrance of union. It lives in you. It lives in me. It lives in the ones who have never set
00:30:02.220 foot in a church. So she then interprets scripture, the Beatitudes, Jesus's words, in light of this idea of
00:30:12.000 Christ consciousness. Blessed are the meek really means, she says, the power that is already inside
00:30:17.680 you. Love your enemies. Nothing is truly outside of you. The first shall be last. Ego must fall for
00:30:23.520 soul to rise. The kingdom is within. Stop seeking what you already are. So that's her new interpretation
00:30:30.160 of scripture. And she says, and this is what a lot of people say who go this direction, that they're
00:30:35.200 closer to Jesus than ever, actually. I never left Jesus. I left the illusion of him. I left the gate
00:30:41.320 keepers, the performance, the shame and holy clothes. And on the other side, I found something wilder and
00:30:45.780 quieter. I found the Christed light inside me. And then there is another reel that she posted. She used
00:30:54.140 the song Cassandra by Taylor Swift. I guess Cassandra is some kind of prophet. I don't know. Mythological
00:31:05.180 Trojan princess cursed to utter true prophecies that no one believed. So I think she is saying,
00:31:12.940 Taylor Swift is saying that she is Cassandra. And Rose Uncharted is also saying that she's Cassandra.
00:31:18.340 How do we have so many Cassandras? It's crazy. And then we also have another infographic about this
00:31:26.320 in, let's see, April 2025, talking about Trump, that Trump helped the awakening, but then he's
00:31:37.340 kind of like a part of the institution. So, all right, let's break this down. What is all of this
00:31:43.140 actually? Is this some new message that she has discovered that really is going to liberate you and
00:31:49.080 fulfill you? And maybe this is attractive to you. If you've been let down by your local church,
00:31:53.800 if your pastor hurts you, if you find the rules of religion restrictive, if you find the idea of
00:32:01.400 denying yourself and taking up your cross and following Christ unappealing, maybe something
00:32:06.440 like this that is deeper and mystical and based on your emotions, maybe you are a more emotional
00:32:12.340 person. Maybe you're more artistic. Maybe you're more creative. Maybe you do naturally buck against
00:32:19.180 authority. And so all of these are persuasive to you. First, let me say, I can relate to a lot of
00:32:24.740 that. I also loathe arbitrary rules. I don't hate all rules, but my natural instinct is to ask why.
00:32:33.660 Always. You can ask my parents. You can ask any teacher that I've ever had. And I do not naturally
00:32:39.880 submit to authority. A lot of people do. A lot of people, I'm not even saying that that's bad when
00:32:45.080 people are naturally just kind of like respect authority. I think that makes life easier in a
00:32:50.420 lot of ways. But I have never been like that. So I can relate to the idea of not wanting to be
00:32:57.920 restricted. I am more of a free spirit in a lot of ways. Maybe that would surprise a lot of you,
00:33:04.280 but I really am. Like, I want to know why. I want to dig into it. But I have also, as I have been that
00:33:10.540 way my entire life, as I've asked a lot of questions and as I've thought hard, I keep going
00:33:16.200 back to Jesus. Like, I keep going back to this guy that we are still counting time around, that his
00:33:25.000 death and his birth and his resurrection was so monumental that we can't get him out of our minds
00:33:31.060 and our mouths and our lives, and that he is the same yesterday, today, and forever. We know that from
00:33:38.640 Hebrews 13, 8, but that he is still disrupting earthly philosophies and science and scholarship
00:33:46.580 seems to always be catching up with him and catching up with scripture. And so when I see
00:33:52.600 things like this, this kind of deconstruction, while I can relate to it, I also realize that it is a result
00:33:58.860 of walking away from the Bible, of walking away from Christ, of walking away from the church and
00:34:04.700 thinking you know better. It is an exchange of the God of scripture for the God of self, and it really
00:34:10.360 is a tale as old as time. So this idea of Christ consciousness, we've talked about this before. We
00:34:17.880 talked about this first in probably 2024. So I would go back and listen to an episode that we did. It was
00:34:24.980 actually about the whole Candace Owens, Christ is King thing. We talked about Christ consciousness in
00:34:29.540 that. In its popular usage today, it's a new age term. It's not Christian in any sense. I think even
00:34:37.100 Russell Brand has talked about it before. It's an Eastern mystical idea that you hear used in Buddhism
00:34:41.980 and Hinduism, other pagan religions. It basically means reaching your higher self, a transcendent level
00:34:49.280 of self-awareness, personal development. It has nothing to do with Christianity. It has nothing to do with
00:34:54.680 the gospel. It has nothing to do with a real biblical Jesus. It is a God of self, man-made cult. So it is
00:35:03.440 this new age concept that says that spiritual awareness or being aware of the frequency of
00:35:11.800 people around you, of the things around you, of the ideas around you will help you reach
00:35:17.520 enlightenment through personal spiritual growth. It draws from different ideologies like Gnosticism,
00:35:26.520 Eastern mysticism. This idea believes that Jesus, if he was a real historical person, which he was,
00:35:36.180 that is really irrefutable. There's no serious historian that denies that Jesus of Nazareth really
00:35:41.400 existed. But they would say, if he was even a real person, then he was just an example, even beyond a
00:35:49.440 moral teacher, because some people just completely illogically believe that. That's the Lord liar
00:35:55.220 lunatic problem that C.S. Lewis put forth, but that he was really a frequency. He was really an idea.
00:36:02.140 He was really something to which we can attain. And gosh, I see this kind of language so much
00:36:08.260 that everyone can attain to be the example of Christ. But Christ isn't like a savior. He wasn't
00:36:15.860 God-made flesh. He wasn't a real person. They don't even believe that he really bodily conquered
00:36:20.920 death and rose from the dead. He's just this kind of mystical idea and concept that we can all
00:36:27.640 attain to. The path is open for anyone, the center of Christ consciousness says. It's the cosmic
00:36:35.260 Christ. And it's the cosmic Christ is really interchangeable with the divine self. It is
00:36:41.680 the highest state of intellectual and development and emotional maturity. This reminds me, honestly,
00:36:46.620 a lot of Christian science and Scientology in a lot of ways. And as I said earlier, one of the biggest
00:36:52.680 proponents of Christ consciousness is author Richard Rohr. So Richard Rohr says he's a priest. He's an
00:37:02.700 author. He is an influential spiritual teacher. He started the Center for Action and Contemplation in
00:37:08.300 1987. And he supposedly is supposed to help people with their spiritual growth. He wrote a book most
00:37:17.800 recently. I think one of his most recent books is The Universal Christ. That's definitely one of his
00:37:24.260 books. I'm just not sure when it was published. But this is really where he puts forth his idea of
00:37:29.400 Christ consciousness. And remember, Richard Rohr is a big contributor to the podcast that Rose
00:37:35.400 Uncharted said helped her, you know, unlearn all of Christian doctrine. He writes that Christ is a
00:37:43.360 universal cosmic presence, not necessarily tied to Jesus, but still present in all of creation. So this
00:37:49.700 is where we see that kind of Gnosticism. He seems to suggest that Christ is a state of awareness where
00:37:56.160 one sees the divine in everything. So again, this is just so careful. It's so important that we're
00:38:04.600 careful here. Seeing the divine in everything is not the same thing as seeing the image of God in
00:38:10.760 everyone. Gnosticism, this idea that there is like, you know, some higher knowledge that we can attain to
00:38:18.400 also usually posits this idea that there is the divine in everything. There's a divine frequency.
00:38:25.720 There's kind of like some kind of cosmic frequency in everything. And that's how we're all
00:38:31.300 interconnected and empire and powers and man-made religions. They're trying to separate us and tear
00:38:38.060 us all apart. But if we recognize that there's Christ in everything, not just the Imago Dei in
00:38:45.320 everyone, then we will all finally be connected and we will be liberated. Roar's Center for Action
00:38:54.000 and Contemplation published an article in November of 2020 that went so far as to say that the kingdom
00:39:00.240 of heaven is a consciousness, that heaven is a metaphor. Gosh, this is so old. It's so tired.
00:39:06.180 And that's why I think it's so important just to show like where this comes from, that this has been
00:39:10.780 around for a very long time. It predates Richard Roar. If you look at the history of psychology,
00:39:16.020 really, if you want to crash course in this, you should read my first book, You're Not Enough,
00:39:19.600 and that's okay escaping the toxic culture of self-love. I know that I'm getting into kind of
00:39:25.240 controversial territory here, but we've talked about it before. If you look at the roots of a
00:39:29.680 lot of personality tests, if you look at the roots of psychology, if you look at the roots of things
00:39:34.380 like the Enneagram, they're not Christian roots. They're psychological roots. Even the guy who created
00:39:40.420 the Enneagram, he said that he got the vision from Megatron, a demon. Okay. All of this kind of goes
00:39:46.260 together because it's all focused on the self and the higher self. And Christ is kind of being used
00:39:52.000 as a way to worship the self in this whole Christ consciousness frequency world. So Richard Roar
00:40:02.200 believes that heaven is not a place you go. It's a consciousness that you start to embody. And what
00:40:07.980 these people typically believe is that heaven, hell, and the constructs of sin and salvation,
00:40:13.880 that these are all used to disempower people and to oppress people and to keep people in these
00:40:20.180 tight boxes. The problem is they never present a good alternative. Okay. Let me pause and remind you
00:40:26.600 that we've got good, we've got Share the Arrows. I almost said Good Ranchers, but Share the Arrows is
00:40:30.700 brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers this year. And I'm so excited. October 11th, Dallas,
00:40:37.360 Texas. Y'all, it's going to be so good. All the stuff that we're talking about today,
00:40:41.080 if you are interested in it, if you are overwhelmed by it, if you want to know more about it, you need
00:40:46.400 to come to Share the Arrows because we're going to have Elisa Childers, who I think is the best at
00:40:51.040 talking about all of this, at pushing back biblically against all of this. And she is going
00:40:55.760 to be talking about the new age, how we battled the new age, what it looks like. And Elisa was one of
00:41:01.800 the favorite talks last year. I knew we had to bring her back because she is just incredible.
00:41:06.780 So you'll hear from her, Ginger Duggar Volo, who was also talked about deconstruction versus
00:41:12.240 disentangling. Katie Faust, she is so good at pushing back against the spirit of the age.
00:41:18.060 Shauna Holman, Taylor Dukes, how can we be crunchy and holistic in a way that actually honors God and
00:41:23.360 actually looks to the Bible instead of departing from it? Francesca Battistelli has also been pushing
00:41:28.100 back in the comments very gently to Rose Uncharted and pointing her to Christ. And so if you want to be
00:41:35.260 around people who know the gospel, who love God, and who care about pushing back against the culture
00:41:41.960 in a way that is gospel-oriented, bringing light into darkness, whether it's in or outside of your
00:41:47.960 homes, then you need to come to Share the Arrows, y'all. Go to sharethearrows.com. October 11th,
00:41:53.880 Dallas, Texas. Related Bros out there, if you are listening to this episode, get your wife to Share
00:41:57.840 the Arrows ticket. Just trust me on that. I, of course, will be there, and I will be delivering my own
00:42:02.820 speech as well. Go to sharethearrows.com. So there are other New Age teachers that talk about this
00:42:15.740 philosophy. A Course in Miracles by Helen Shuckman was published in 1976, and she also put forth this
00:42:26.060 idea of the Christ consciousness or the universal Christ. She said, the name of Jesus Christ as such
00:42:32.800 is but a symbol. It is a symbol that is safely used as a replacement for the many names of all
00:42:37.620 the gods to which you pray. So it's just straight up paganism. Remember Marianne Williamson? She ran
00:42:43.640 for president. She wrote a book all the way back in 1992, the year I was born, called A Return to
00:42:50.660 Love. And that actually popularized that book that I just cited, that Helen Shuckman book, A Course in
00:42:57.460 Miracles, where she puts forth this idea too, that Christ consciousness is really about self-enlightenment.
00:43:04.140 We've got Deepak Chopra. He blends Eastern mysticism with Christian terms. So it's Eastern mysticism as
00:43:11.540 well as Hinduism and Buddhism. He says Jesus represents a state of consciousness, what I call
00:43:16.960 Christ consciousness, what I call Christ consciousness. Dude, that's been around for a long time. You didn't
00:43:21.340 come up with that. He wrote in 2008, the third Jesus, the Christ we cannot ignore. The third Jesus.
00:43:29.060 At the level of pure consciousness, there is no separation between you and the divine. So here's
00:43:36.100 the problem with all of this. I mean, there's a big problem, and we'll get into the scripture in just a
00:43:39.980 second. But the big problem is that these people never tell you the alternative. They tell you that
00:43:46.820 right and wrong are subjective, that Christianity doesn't really have it, that it's been infected by
00:43:51.760 empire. And that's really just a way, and maybe not all of these people, but that's really just a way
00:43:58.240 to tell you that if you are a Christian that allows your Christianity to inform your worldview, including
00:44:03.340 your vote, then you're a scary Christian nationalist fascist, and you've allowed empire to infect your
00:44:09.920 theology and blah, blah, blah. You need to stop doing that and just be progressive. It's just
00:44:15.540 silly. It's just silly. We're supposed to shine light in the darkness, and if that changes how the
00:44:19.940 empire does things, if that stops them from sacrificing babies, then praise God. That's a
00:44:25.000 really big win. So your little empire finger wagging is not going to work on me, okay? Jesus is the
00:44:31.000 authority of all things, including our politics, including our governments. Anyway, so they'll say
00:44:38.040 things like that, but then they won't ever tell you, okay, but what is actually true? What is right and
00:44:44.080 what is wrong? Is that something that we should be completely unconcerned with? I don't think so,
00:44:48.980 because just like every moral relativist for all of time, people are moral relativists in the abstract
00:44:56.060 only. And what I mean by that is that you are a moral relativist until someone steals your bike,
00:45:03.180 until someone punches you in the face, until someone trips your child on the sidewalk,
00:45:08.420 until they defraud you. And then you very much believe in an objective right and wrong. And in
00:45:16.420 fact, I know Rose believes in an objective right and wrong because she was rightly speaking out against
00:45:22.080 the constitutional infringements that the government was guilty of during the COVID era. Like, she
00:45:28.580 understands that personal liberty is actually an objective good. That's a good thing. And by the way,
00:45:35.380 like, we wouldn't even have a concept of that if it weren't for what Christianity, by the way,
00:45:42.100 without Christianity, without the Bible, without the Protestant Reformation, we certainly wouldn't
00:45:46.700 have America and this concept of individual rights and self-governance and personal freedom.
00:45:52.380 She seems to believe in some of those things, which she believes are objective rights. And so everyone
00:45:59.000 who believes that, oh, there's just a lot of gray, that morality is just kind of cultural. It's just
00:46:05.920 relative from person to person. Yeah. Until someone does something to you, and then you realize there
00:46:12.060 is an objective wrong. Because the reality is, is that God wrote eternity on the human heart. We are
00:46:19.220 made in the image of God. And so when we instinctively know that something is unjust, when something is
00:46:26.160 wrong, when something is done to us that feels really bad, we know it's wrong. Because whether
00:46:31.140 we are Christians or not, because we've been made in God's image, we have some kind of instinct and
00:46:37.580 wisdom that tells us that. Jack Marino, who has been on this show before, she was into witchcraft.
00:46:47.140 She was into the New Age. She was into cults. She's an amazing young woman. And the episode we did
00:46:54.040 with her was extremely successful because her testimony is just so compelling. And how dark
00:47:00.000 she went in believing into the extra, believing the extraterrestrial, believing a lot of this
00:47:04.280 stuff that we articulated. She talked on our show about this Christ consciousness. She says that
00:47:10.380 Christ consciousness, self-love and embracing my shadow. She said that this was the belief that
00:47:15.620 your sin isn't really sin. It's just shame. That's what a lot of these people will tell you.
00:47:19.740 She said, could never have truly saved or delivered me from my sin and shame. She said,
00:47:25.460 there were so many ways I tried to have freedom from bondage my own way, embracing my own version
00:47:30.820 of Christ in the ways that I desired and ultimately making myself my own God. These things didn't have
00:47:36.720 any power. Nothing changed and none of these things made me happy. I was deeply miserable and always knew
00:47:43.060 that there was something missing. The fact is that we make terrible, terrible gods. There is one true
00:47:48.900 God, the God of the Bible, and he truly saves. I was reminded of this verse. When Jesus is speaking to his
00:48:06.340 disciples and he asks Simon Peter, well, he actually asks all of them. He says, who do you say that I am?
00:48:19.560 Simon Peter replied, you are the Christ, the son of the living God. And Jesus answered him,
00:48:26.060 blessed are you, Simon Barjona, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my father who is
00:48:33.440 in heaven. So it wasn't some man-made construction that revealed to Peter that Jesus was not only just
00:48:41.660 Christ consciousness, not just an example, but the son of the living God, that he is the Messiah,
00:48:50.080 that he is the one who came to save us. It wasn't some man-made tradition or empire that told him that.
00:48:58.200 In fact, it was the Roman Empire saying, no, there is no king but Caesar, and you will not
00:49:05.160 buck against our system. It was the religious, zealous Jews of the time that didn't like Jesus'
00:49:13.200 authority and didn't like them questioning their own, the Pharisees' interpretation, wrong
00:49:19.400 interpretation of Scripture. It was the Holy Spirit. It was our Father in heaven who revealed
00:49:27.600 to Peter that Christ is who he says he is, that he is the son of the living God.
00:49:34.960 And the Bible, which is reliable, which is true, which has been compiled by people who have been
00:49:43.300 led by the Holy Spirit. I mean, they've been so—if you go to the Museum of the Bible, you will see
00:49:49.000 how people throughout history for thousands of years have been so dedicated, so scrupulous,
00:49:55.160 for no other reason except for that they loved God's Word, to interpret God's Word, to handle God's
00:50:01.940 Word correctly, to ensure that the biblical canon is correct. It is incredible, the survival and the
00:50:08.300 persistence of the 66 books of the Bible. Like, it is absolutely amazing. There is no other
00:50:14.380 explanation for it when you go through the Museum of the Bible except for God. He's totally sovereign
00:50:19.520 and he's totally powerful. So the biblical view of Jesus, we read in John 1, in the beginning was the
00:50:25.380 Word, and the Word was God, and the Word was with God, and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.
00:50:31.720 Flesh, okay? Not just an idea. And we have seen his glory. Glory as the only Son from the Father,
00:50:39.400 full of grace and truth. 1 Corinthians 15, 3-4,
00:50:43.040 For I deliver to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins in
00:50:49.100 accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance
00:50:53.200 with the Scriptures. 1 Timothy 2, 5,
00:50:56.120 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
00:51:03.760 The biblical view is that salvation comes through Jesus alone.
00:51:07.480 Ephesians 2, 8-9,
00:51:08.620 For by grace you have been saved through faith. This is not your own doing. It is a gift of God,
00:51:12.960 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
00:51:17.000 Galatians 2, 16. Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law, but through faith
00:51:23.060 in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus in order to be justified by faith
00:51:28.140 in Christ, not works of the law. She believes, Rose believes, that salvation is self-realization,
00:51:35.720 that it's awakening to the Christed light. And let me tell you, this is a burden that is heavy.
00:51:40.940 This is a yoke that is difficult. Jesus says, my burden is light. My yoke is easy.
00:51:49.260 But the burden of the God of self is heavy. The burden, the yoke of the God of self is extremely
00:51:56.880 difficult because in this worldview, while it seems liberating, it is placing on you a responsibility
00:52:04.000 that you can't bear. To be your own light, to be your own satisfaction, to be your own fulfillment,
00:52:12.340 to be your own liberation. You cannot be those things. You're not enough. And that's not only okay,
00:52:20.000 but that is really good news. That God made you insufficient. He made you fallible. He made you
00:52:26.800 to need him for strength, for wisdom, for salvation, for sanctification. That is the truth about who you
00:52:35.640 are and who Christ is. And that is much better news than this, because if it is up to you to go down
00:52:41.260 this cosmic route to find some kind of elevated self, transcendent idea of who you are, then oh my
00:52:49.460 goodness. How stressful is that? Like how big of an obligation is that? But instead you get to deny
00:52:58.520 yourself, take up your cross and follow Christ who promises to finish the good work in you that
00:53:05.340 he initiated by grace through faith. Like that is the gospel, that salvation does not exist inside of
00:53:12.060 ourselves. That salvation is not a path of self-discovery. That salvation is not about walking up the
00:53:18.380 mountain. See, what she is proposing is what every false religion for all of time and still today
00:53:23.900 has proposed. That here's what you have to do. Here's how you climb up the mountain to be good
00:53:30.680 enough. Here's where you go and what you have to accomplish and what you have to check off your list
00:53:37.020 to finally be satisfied or to finally reach salvation, to finally reach God. But Christianity is the
00:53:45.660 opposite. Christianity says there's nothing you can do. And so Christ, God, is going to come down the
00:53:52.000 mountain and save you even when you were dead in your trespasses. Christ made you alive by grace
00:53:57.700 through faith. That's Ephesians 2. There's nothing you can do to save yourself. And there is nothing more
00:54:02.500 truly liberating than that. The grace that we find in Christ rather than the legalism that is
00:54:10.600 masquerading as liberation that we find in this kind of cult-like mentality. So I just want you to
00:54:19.500 be able to see this for what it is. It is a cult-like mentality. It is a false teaching and it will lead
00:54:24.900 to hell. And you need to pray for every single person that is susceptible to this, that is believing
00:54:30.240 this, but especially those who are teaching this. This is serious stuff. Serious stuff. All right. Let me tell
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00:55:33.900 relatable. All right. I just want to remind you that false teachings come and go, false teachers
00:55:47.980 come and go, and there's no one that you can fully rely on. No influencer, no podcaster, no author is
00:55:54.940 going to be able to tell you the full infallible truth. Here's the sign of not a cult. Here's the sign
00:56:01.900 of a group or a faith that is confident in its doctrines. When I can say to you, you don't have
00:56:13.160 to listen to me. I don't have anything special to offer to you. I am not the medium or the mentor
00:56:19.660 that you need. In fact, no one is. I want you to learn the truth for yourself, and I am completely
00:56:25.340 unafraid of you reading the entirety of the Bible and asking any question you want to and praying to
00:56:32.820 God and knowing his word. I'm not afraid of any of that. I want you to know church history. I want
00:56:40.100 you to know what the reformers said. I want you to know what the Bible says. Truth is like a lion. It
00:56:46.760 doesn't need to be defended. It just needs to be unleashed. And so when you talk about, oh, gatekeepers
00:56:52.960 of religion, really, these new age cults have a lot of gatekeepers because they are telling you that
00:56:59.320 they have channeled a very special frequency, and it's up to them to tell you about it and to help
00:57:05.800 you channel that frequency too. Yeah, that's gatekeeping. And again, it is legalism that is
00:57:16.140 masquerading as liberation, as all false teachings and cults are. So anyway, I hope this has been
00:57:23.300 helpful. Pray again for all people who are affected by this. Subscribe to Blaze TV if you haven't done
00:57:29.100 that already. BlazeTV.com slash Allie. You'll get a discount when you do that, and you will get access
00:57:34.820 to all of our Blaze TV subscriber exclusive content. It helps us out. It helps you out. Use my code
00:57:41.020 Allie for $20 off. That's BlazeTV.com slash Allie. All right, we'll be back here on Monday.