Ep 1217 ｜ Chip & Joanna Gaines Go All In on Gay Marriage
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 1 minute
Words per Minute
166.7149
Summary
Chip and Joanna Gaines are the executive producers of a new reality TV show that is prominently featuring a gay couple and their surrogacy-born sons. When they received backlash from many Christian conservative fans, Chip Gaines decided to double down.
Transcript
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Chip and Joanna Gaines are the executive producers of a new reality TV show that is prominently featuring a gay couple and their surrogacy-born sons.
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When they received backlash from many Christian conservative fans, Chip Gaines decided that he would double down.
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We will go into all of this today, as well as the background that makes this really significant, on today's episode of Relatable.
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It's brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to GoodRanchers.com. Use code ALI at checkout. That's GoodRanchers.com, code ALI.
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Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Monday. Hope everyone had a wonderful weekend. It is great to be back in the studio with you all.
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You guys are loving the episode that I put out with Lila last Friday. We are already planning hopefully a part two on Lila's show. I appreciated all of your positive feedback. I was a little nervous to put out that episode just because not everyone handles the tenseness of disagreement well as an audience member.
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For example, my mom texted me after and was like, are you and Lila still friends? And I was like, yes, we are still friends. And Lila's, you know, she's really good at disagreeing and then coming together in a respectful way. And I would like to think that I am as well.
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And so I really enjoyed that. There's so much that I wish that we could have gotten to. And in hindsight, I kind of just wish that we would have extended it. But we were on a really tight schedule that day. And so it was hard to do.
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But there's so much that I wish, you know, I would have asked that I would have said and maybe Lila feels the same. That's always true in discussions and debates. And so if you're thinking like, why didn't you say this? Why didn't you go there? Trust me, like there, if you've ever done some kind of like discussion or debate or even like personal argument with someone, there's always something afterward that you wish that you had said or said differently.
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But nevertheless, I do appreciate y'all's feedback, especially those of you who are kind and appreciated the respectful tone of the discussion. So we'll be back with more on that soon. Also, because it's Monday, I just want to give a little bit of encouragement before we get into what I think is a very sad and disturbing story today. And that is the only thing that you are responsible to do today is the will of God.
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I love that quote from Elizabeth Elliot. It always gives me so much comfort. And when you don't know what that is, all you can ever do, all you have the capacity to do is the next right thing in faith with excellence and for the glory of God. That part is not from Elizabeth Elliot. That's just kind of an add on from one of her quotes that we've said many times over the years. It is a comfort to me. I like to start out my week with that mentality. And I hope it's a comfort to you as well.
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All right, let's talk about Chip and Joanna Gaines. So many of y'all have been asking me to comment on this story over the weekend. I've only said a little bit on X. I haven't given my full take and full analysis on Instagram. I wanted to gather all of the relevant information, collect myself and give the best and most biblical response that I can.
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Chip and Joanna, if you didn't know, are the stars of that HGTV show, Fixer Upper. They're the owners of Magnolia. This is a lifestyle brand. They sell a lot of their products in Target. And they also have a magazine. They've got a TV network.
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And Magnolia is now partnering with HBO for a new show that aired on July 10th called Back to the Frontier. And this show prominently features a gay couple. It is a reality show. There are three different families that are trying to rough it in a frontier type setting.
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Like they're living in the 1800s. And one of the families is two men and two boys that they purchased via surrogate. And we will get into more details about that family in a second.
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But understandably, there has been a lot of concern expressed and a lot of backlash because Chip and Joanna Gaines have been prominent and outspoken Christians since they rose to fame several years ago.
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Fixer Upper started in 2013 and very quickly they made their faith public. They did interviews where they talked about the importance of their faith. It was very obvious that they loved each other.
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I think that's something that a lot of Christians really liked that even on networks like HGTV or TLC, you would see a lot of just strife and disrespect within marriages and kind of making the dad look, you know, stupid or not respected, not loved.
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I mean, think of something like John and Kate plus eight. Terrible, awful discord in that relationship. And you saw this very cute, very attractive Christian couple that simply liked to flip houses, primarily in Waco, Texas, who just kind of like fit the bill for the kind of people that we would be friends with, that like Southern evangelicals would be friends with and would want to hang out with.
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And that is why they gained such a huge following. At the very beginning, it was like almost exclusively these Southern conservative Christians who were like, yes, that represents me, represents my family. And they also just seem like really cool, awesome people that share values. How cool.
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And so these people now they feel betrayed, not only because their show that they are executive producers of is highlighting a family that is engaged in what God calls sin, but also because Chip Gaines has decided to double down on this after people raised a very respectful ruckus.
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They raised their very legitimate concerns, they raised their very legitimate concerns, asked totally valid questions. He is responding to that backlash, that criticism, that pushback with abject condescension. And that is really sad to see.
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So we're going to back up a little bit, talk about the details of this, talk about the backlash and talk about who these people are, that Chip and Joanna Gaines, who claim to be very strong Christians, have intentionally decided to hoist up.
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Okay, let's get in a little bit more, into a little bit more about the details of this show.
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Y'all are going to love this show, Social Experiment, plus Family Time Well Spent,
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and then posted the picture of Back to the Frontier.
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It's an eight-episode reality TV series and social experiment produced by Magnolia Network,
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streaming on HBO Max. The show follows three modern American families, the Lopers from Alabama,
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the Halls, the Hannah Riggs from Texas, who live as 1880s homesteaders for eight weeks on 10,000 acres
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in Canada. They don't have electricity or any water, and they're raising livestock,
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and so just trying to see if they can survive, you know, going through the hardships that they have
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without the modern conveniences. The gay couple that is featured in this show, their names are Jason
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and Joe, and they have twin 10-year-old sons. And as I said, they were born via surrogacy.
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That is a subject that we have talked about many, many times on this show. And when we get more
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into the story that they have publicly shared, I will share, if you're new here, my concerns,
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not only about practicing surrogacy, but also promoting it by normalizing this kind of family
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set up. Here's thought one. Arriving next for the ultimate digital detox.
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Okay. What's first? No more work. No more emails. No more pings. No more bings. Everywhere we go.
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Are you guys ready to get rid of these devices?
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I'm Jason Hannah. My name is Joe Riggs. We have our twin boys, Ethan and Lucas, that are 10 years old.
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All right. So that is Jason and Joe. Now, in an interview with an LGBTQ outlet called Queer Tea,
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Jason, one of the guys, explained that they decided to apply for this show because they wanted to
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normalize same-sex relationships. Here's that, too.
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I first saw the flyer on social media. There was a gay couple on the flyer. And so that initially kind
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of sparked my interest. And I was very much intrigued in learning more about the show and kind of what
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what that experience was going to be. I'm super honored that when they were choosing three modern
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day families, that they did choose a same-sex couple as a modern day family because we are.
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We are your neighbors and your coworkers. And so it was this great, amazing opportunity
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to normalize same-sex couples and same-sex families.
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I was on board with the whole concept of continue to normalize same-sex families. I think through
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our Instagram, through our $2 Dads account, that's one of the reasons we put ourselves out
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there because of our adoption issues. Yeah, they say adoption there, but actually later we learned
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that it wasn't adoption. If the reporting is actually correct, that it was surrogacy, which is
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a big difference as we'll get into. But just a couple of things there I also want to highlight.
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So number one, their mission is to normalize forced motherlessness, which is the forcing
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of a child to live without their mother. And that is what is going on here, of course. And so they
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wanted to glorify that. They wanted to expand their platform so that more people could see this kind
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of relationship and more people could think, okay, maybe a mom is unnecessary. Maybe a husband can
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become a wife and maybe a dad can become a mom. I mean, it is functional transgenderism.
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Even if people aren't actually identifying as the opposite sex, they are certainly identifying as the
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opposite gender role. And it's the same math. Thinking husbands and wives and moms and dads are
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interchangeable is the same math as thinking men and women are interchangeable. So they're hoping to
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normalize that. And number two, I want to highlight that they saw a flyer with a gay couple on it.
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So that means from the get-go, they were trying, Magnolia Network along with HBO, they were trying to
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attract a gay couple. It's not one of those things where, okay, they weren't looking for that. They
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just stumbled upon this exceptionally charismatic couple. And they just said, okay, we have to go with
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them. Not that I would think that's a justification for Christian executive producers to do, but that's
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not how it happened. From the get-go, that's what they were looking for. And if you don't think that
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Chip and Joanna had a say in that, or at least knowledge of that and confirmed that, then you're
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crazy. Or maybe you just don't understand the level of influence that they have as the executive
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producers of this show. Now, we know that HBO is as progressive as it gets. And so I wouldn't be
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surprised if HBO is saying, okay, we have to meet this diversity criteria. This is what we're going
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to do. But I promise you as well that Chip and Joanna at any point in these negotiations could
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have said, no, we're not. I'm sorry. We're just not going to do that. We're not going to be able to
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fulfill those quotas. Maybe they could have said, we're fine with a racial diversity, but this is what
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our faith says. And we're just not willing to compromise on that. Understand, HBO, if you don't
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want to work with us, but we cannot put our name on something that is celebrating and normalizing
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what our faith, what the God that we believe in calls sin. That was an option. We don't have to
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know every single detail of the behind-the-scenes negotiations to be able to deduce that. So from
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the beginning, this was being advertised. And this now is a guess, but I wouldn't be surprised if
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these people said in their application process, said in their interview process, this is our
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mission. We want to normalize this. We think this is good. This is a different kind of family where we
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don't have a mom for our children. And we want more people to see this as good and right and true.
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I guarantee you that Chip and Joanna at some point were told that that was the mission.
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And still at that point, apparently they still didn't say anything. They didn't say, you know
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what? That's, it's just not a, it's not a mission that we can get behind. Apparently it was a mission
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that they decided that they were ready to celebrate as well. So a little bit more about this couple.
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They are no stranger to headlines and I guess seeking some kind of platform and notoriety.
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They made headlines in 2014 when they fought to get their names on the birth certificates of their
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twin boys, Ethan and Lucas, that were born via surrogacy. They faced legal challenges in being
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recognized as parents in the state of Texas. So each man is the biological father of one twin,
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but due to Texas's ban on gay marriage at the time, a judge, this is pre-Obergefell. It's crazy
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how quickly things have moved. A judge denied their request to be listed on the twins birth
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certificates or to co-adopt each other's biological child. Instead, the only, only the surrogate mother
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who actually had no biological connection to the twins was listed on the birth certificates. This left the
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couple with no legal rights to each other's child. They were able to petition a judge in 2015 after
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Obergefell. And so they were able to, you know, put their names on the birth certificate, I assume,
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after that. Okay. If you don't know anything about surrogacy, we will link some of my past episodes
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about it. It is very important for you to know what is going on in this world thousands of times
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a year. So all surrogacy involves some of these steps, but especially with two men, since no one
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in that relationship can make or carry a baby, you need women to be able to do that. And so if you've
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got two men who want children that are biologically related to one of them, or if they want multiple
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kids, biologically related to both of them, what they have to do is one, pick an egg seller. You've
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probably heard the term egg donor. That is actually a misnomer. That woman is getting paid a lot of money
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for her DNA, for her eggs. So they might pick her out of a catalog. In rare cases, they might know the egg
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donor, but very often they can actually go to these clinics that provide a catalog that you can pick all
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different kinds of characteristics that the egg donor has that you want passed down to your child. And then you
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pick a separate woman. And that woman is called the surrogate. And that is the womb that you are
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renting. Again, you are paying that woman tens of thousands of dollars. This is not an altruistic
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act that this woman is doing. She is getting paid. And I don't know the specific details of their setup,
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but this is how it goes. She's getting paid for her body and for her time and for her literal labor.
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And so the egg from the egg seller is inseminated with the sperm of one of the guys and they create
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as many eggs as they can. And from there, they go through the IVF process, which typically involves
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grading or sorry, embryos, not eggs. It typically involves grading the embryos to see which is healthiest.
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They can even decide on gender. They can discard the embryos that don't have the characteristics that they
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want. And then they transfer the embryos of the gender of the strength that they want into the womb of the
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surrogate who is pumped with all kinds of artificial hormones. So her body will try to accept this foreign
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object and will actually accept and grow the pregnancy. And so you're paying two separate
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women. You're discarding all kinds of embryos all so two men can do what God created them not to be
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able to do. And that is have biological children without a mother that is raising them. As I said,
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this is forced motherlessness. This is a social experiment in which we are laying the well-being
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of children on the altar of adult desire. And there is nothing more disordered than that.
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Demanding children who cannot consent to this motherlessness to sacrifice their innate needs,
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their biological longing for their mother in service to the desires, the disordered desires
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of adults that is wrong. I'm not saying these people don't love their kids. I'm not saying they
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don't take care of their kids. They could be good dads. The problem is they're not a mom.
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And every child has a right to a mother and a father. And so, I mean, even aside from the homosexuality,
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which God clearly calls sin, we can get into that in a second, we are also normalizing and glorifying
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a process that commodifies the bodies of women, that commercializes the reproductive process,
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and that, again, exploits the vulnerability of children. And Christians are called to care
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for the fatherless. And in this case, we're talking about a motherless child, which to me seems like
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it would go in the same biblical category as fatherlessness. That is a category of vulnerability
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that Christians are called to care about. Man, this is such an enormous fail on the part of Chip and
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Joanna Gaines, and it makes me really sad. And we'll get into more of it in just a second. Let me pause
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again, Chip and Joanna knew all of this before they chose this family, and they did choose the family.
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This is also not the Gaines' first partnership with HBO Max. Their Magnolia Network has been closely
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tied to HBO. I think that's significant, because they know the standards that HBO has. And I'm sure
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HBO pays really good money, but they know that this would be part and parcel of what they do. And I just
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really don't see the justification that they could have made in their minds for this. I mean,
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there are some things that I'm like, okay, I don't see it that way. I don't think that's the best
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witness, but maybe that's working for them. Maybe that mode is working for them. It is hard for me to
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understand how they could have excused this in their mind. So as I said, Chip Gaines is doubling down
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on this after he's received pushback. So he posted this. He said,
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talk, ask questions, listen, maybe even learn. Too much to ask of modern American Christian culture.
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Judge first, understand later slash never. It is a sad Sunday when non-believers have never been
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confronted with hate or vitriol until they are introduced to a modern American Christian. I mean,
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what left-wing secular slop? I mean, seriously, that is just the propagandist of the secular slop that I
00:25:14.120
have ever heard. Oh my goodness. Okay. So here's what he's responding to. What he is saying is judgment
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and vitriol and hate that is represented apparently by modern American Christians. Megan Basham. This
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apparently is hateful, according to Chip Gaines. This is incredibly disappointing. She says to the
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report that they are highlighting this gay couple. Not particularly surprising when the Gaines has
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chose to stay silent through Target's promotion of transgender merchandise to children. They of course
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have a massive Target retail line. It was pretty clear that they had little interest in being a public
00:25:51.360
witness anymore. Highlighting their faith early in their business building helped get them where they
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are, but they don't need to do it anymore. It is indeed very sad. You know, Megan Basham, she talked
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about how she was like such a raving fan of them and used to write articles about them for World
00:26:08.880
Magazine. She felt like so many people did at the time that, yes, this is an awesome Christian family
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loving, fun loving couple that is building this amazing empire in Waco that we want to support because
00:26:24.580
there being a light in the world. And so I think she's genuinely expressing this disappointment,
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that this is sad, that this feels like betrayal. You know, we saw this a lot in 2020 with some of the
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so-called Christian celebrities that decided suddenly they hated white evangelicals, that white evangelicals
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who voted for Trump were the problem when it was white evangelicals who boosted a lot of their careers for
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so long. Like I'm thinking of, well, maybe I won't say the names because I don't have the direct
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quotes from what they're saying, but there were quite a few Christian artists and Christian authors
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who back in 2020 decided that they were going to lambast all of the white Christian conservatives out
00:27:07.420
there. Well, those were the very people that helped them gain a platform because they supported
00:27:12.960
their message. And it just feels like that's what's happening. I mean, literally, if you take conservative
00:27:18.780
Christians out of the world, Chip and Joanna don't exist. Magnolia Network does not exist. There's just
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not enough. There's not quite enough. I'm not saying they don't have a diverse ideological
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audience. They do now, but there's not enough of those people that support Magnolia for them to have
00:27:35.820
grown the empire that they do. And by the way, if you don't know, it really is an empire. Like
00:27:41.320
Magnolia is huge. People will pilgrimage to Waco just to see Magnolia. I've personally never been there.
00:27:48.200
But I know people who have traveled from out of state to go because it's really cool and it's
00:27:53.200
really beautiful. And obviously, Joanna especially is just so talented and has this amazing sense of
00:27:59.060
style that can appeal to so many different kinds of people and the impact that they've had on Waco.
00:28:05.080
And by the way, after these last two episodes, criticizing Chip and Joanna Gaines' decision and
00:28:11.180
criticizing Baylor's decision, I think I'm probably going to be banned from Waco. I'm not going to ever be
00:28:17.920
able to go there. But it's interesting. Actually, that was a conversation I had with my team before
00:28:23.080
last Wednesday's episode about Baylor University. I asked, like, the politics of Waco, has Waco shifted
00:28:31.300
because not only of Baylor, but also because of Chip and Joanna Gaines and their liberalizing effect
00:28:38.280
on the spaces they occupy? And I do believe they have a liberalizing effect on the spaces
00:28:43.300
they occupy, which we'll get into in just a few minutes. So the LGBTQ lobby came for Chip and
00:28:51.160
Joanna Gaines because they didn't feature gay couples on Fixer Upper back in 2016. And so people
00:28:58.920
called them homophobic, like it was this whole scandal. And Megan Basham, quote, tweeted a Chip Gaines
00:29:05.400
post from December of 2016, where Chip says, in times of trouble, you'll find the Gaines family at
00:29:11.120
church. Megan said, this is what you said in 2016. What happened to this man? Franklin Graham. And I was
00:29:17.620
really appreciative that Franklin Graham spoke up about this because I don't really see him, you know,
00:29:23.600
often speaking up specifically about what's going on, like in the culture war on a day-to-day basis.
00:29:28.500
He more posts about like kind of bigger picture things. But I really appreciated that he said
00:29:33.540
something. He said, I hope this isn't true. But I read today that Chip and Joanna Gaines are featuring a
00:29:38.000
gay couple in their new series. If it is true, it is very disappointing. While we are to love people,
00:29:42.940
we should love them enough to tell them the truth of God's word. His word is absolute truth. God loves
00:29:47.800
us. And his design for marriage is between one man and one woman. He's absolutely right. That is the
00:29:54.340
crux of the matter, that God is love. And if we are to love other people, we tell them the truth.
00:30:02.680
You are promoting a household where two men custom-ordered two motherless boys. That is true.
00:30:10.020
Maybe you thought you were being kind or inclusive to the adults, but you're actually complicit in
00:30:14.320
quote, causing the little ones to stumble. Matt Walsh, Chip and Joanna Gaines produced a new
00:30:21.880
reality show that prominently features a gay male couple with two children. Chip's response to the
00:30:25.600
Christians who rightly criticized the decision is to, of course, condemn them as hateful bigots.
00:30:31.240
And that is just true. That's exactly what he did. Joel Berry had a back and forth with Chip Gaines.
00:30:36.820
Joel Berry is of the Babylon Bee, very solid Christian. We've had him on the show. Joel said,
00:30:41.440
You'll see no hate from me. I'm just sad. So this is in response to what Chip said about, oh,
00:30:45.960
so much hate, so much judgment, so much vitriol. The world isn't seeing hate until they, you know,
00:30:51.260
see what Megan Basham says and Katie Faust says, the tweets that I just read you. Which, of course,
00:30:57.700
are not actually hateful. They're not judgmental. They are doing what Christians are called to do,
00:31:02.100
and that is agreeing with God. That is calling what God says is good, good, and calling what God
00:31:06.360
says is bad, bad, which apparently Chip and Joanna don't believe in doing, at least right here in this
00:31:11.640
context, just to give them, you know, try to give them the benefit of the doubt. So Joel, in response
00:31:16.140
to that, says, You'll see no hate from me. I'm just sad. I can't let my kids watch your show now,
00:31:20.260
since I'm trying to protect their eyes and hearts from the lies of the world. Why is you are now
00:31:23.040
participating in? Also, filter out some of the online vitriol and consider taking to heart some
00:31:27.540
of the substantive concerns and heartbreak from the Christians who make up your fan base. We should
00:31:31.840
love the sinner. That doesn't mean we celebrate and promote the sin and participate in the multi-billion
00:31:35.460
dollar industry dedicated to destroying the family. Chip Gaines very flippantly says, and he could,
00:31:41.560
by the way, not respond at all. I think that would be fine. But he says, Don't be sad, Joel. Plenty of
00:31:47.060
other stuff out there. I'm sure everyone will be fine. But I sincerely appreciate the advice about
00:31:52.280
taking some of the thoughtful, encouraging, constructive criticism to heart. Okay. And
00:31:57.440
Megan Basham, I don't have it in front of me, but I just remember she responded like,
00:32:01.020
we're not sad because we have one less show to watch. We're sad because you are promoting something
00:32:07.340
that God says eats the body and soul, consumes it, destroys it. And that is sad. And people have
00:32:15.260
a reason to be disappointed about that. And the flippancy and the callousness and the condescension
00:32:21.660
in the responses is a really bad indicator. Brittany says, I was at Baylor at the same
00:32:28.600
time as Chip. I sat under Siebert's teaching. That is their pastor, I think, at Antioch Church
00:32:33.100
in Waco. This is so surprising and disappointing. If they're still at the church, I would expect
00:32:36.900
Siebert to address it. Chip said, did we meet? There's so much going on, stuff that really matters.
00:32:41.320
Don't be too disappointed over this, Brittany, he puts in scare quotes. TV shows will come and go,
00:32:46.100
you know. I know that he's trying to trivialize this. It probably makes him feel a little bit
00:32:50.500
better. And I'm sure that Chip and Joanna have people in their lives who are making them feel
00:32:56.340
really good and making them feel like, don't listen to those backwards hillbillies, you know,
00:33:02.300
the kind of people that occupy places like Waco and the rest of Texas. Don't listen to those
00:33:08.180
extremists, those radical people. That's not Jesus. That's not love. Jesus never talked about this.
00:33:14.460
We're just supposed to love people. That's all you're doing. Never apologize for being radically
00:33:18.780
empathetic and inclusive and loving. That is exactly like you've shown God to me. I know they
00:33:24.280
have people in their life who are telling them that, who are making them feel completely callous
00:33:28.020
to conviction. That is such a dangerous place to be. It's such a dangerous place to be. All of us
00:33:33.360
have been in a place where the affirmation of the world is so appealing and it is so attractive.
00:33:39.860
And because we want to feel good about our sin and we want to justify our rebellion,
00:33:44.460
we take on the opinions of those who will affirm our sin and who will even make our sins sound
00:33:52.420
righteous and make our sins sound godly and loving. Oh my goodness. That is so seductive.
00:33:58.160
It is so tempting for anyone. And yet that path not only leads us in a hellacious direction,
00:34:08.200
it leads others to hell. John Root said on Acts,
00:34:12.500
why are you promoting homosexuality as a Christian? Why compromise on the Bible's clear teachings on
00:34:16.440
this? Why support homosexuals buying kids? Disappointed would be an understatement.
00:34:21.220
Chip Gaines then quotes the verse from John Root's bio, which is 1 Peter 3.15,
00:34:28.240
but in your hearts, revere Christ as Lord. It goes on to say, do this with gentleness and respect.
00:34:35.540
And John Root said, it's my favorite verse. You're trying to use it against me. Chip Gaines said,
00:34:39.340
I didn't try to use it against you. I did use it against you. It's pretty weird to have a life
00:34:42.740
verse that has specific messaging and instruction that you don't even come close to applying. How
00:34:46.960
did he not come close to applying it? I didn't see him being disrespectful. I didn't see him lacking
00:34:52.260
gentleness. He asked some very important questions that any Christian should want to wrestle with.
00:34:59.520
And again, he could have just not responded to any of these things, but he chose to respond very
00:35:07.120
specifically, very directly, and very condescendingly. All right. We've got more on
00:35:16.060
this and who they are and kind of their background, because I know a lot of you are thinking this
00:35:19.840
shouldn't be a surprise. They've compromised for a long time. This is who they are. And I would say
00:35:26.100
like, yes and no to that. We have seen some signs. I've talked about it on this show.
00:35:31.280
But I also think that there is a reason for people to kind of be shocked by this and to have
00:35:36.380
their disappointment be like fresh or be renewed at least. But let me pause and tell you about our
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Okay. As I said earlier, Magnolia has partnered with Target for a long time since 2017. And it was
00:36:59.660
really like the perfect partnership at first because, again, Target is buoyed by a ton of
00:37:06.000
Christian and conservative women. And that's what I've been saying for the past few years when they
00:37:10.620
were pushing so hard this radical pride stuff. And they've backed off so much in the past couple of
00:37:17.560
years, which I'm so grateful for. I think largely because you decided that you were going to take
00:37:22.640
your money elsewhere, at least for the month of June, while they were pushing the most radical and
00:37:27.020
extremist stuff. And I think they realized, okay, that's not where the country is. That's not where
00:37:31.420
our customers are. And then, of course, when Trump won the election, that was an even further indicator
00:37:36.220
of, okay, yeah, maybe we pushed a little bit too hard. But let us just walk down memory lane for a
00:37:42.600
second and look at what Target was promoting in the summer of 2023 and then how it is relevant to
00:37:49.380
Chip and Joanna Gaines. So back in 2023, Target was selling pride swimsuits that were tuck-friendly.
00:37:59.460
Now, these seem to be targeted towards adolescents, but maybe you could say they're for adults. It
00:38:05.220
doesn't matter. So tuck-friendly, if we want to get a little bit graphic, that's for men who want to
00:38:10.700
identify or appear as women. And so they've got to tuck their anatomy away to try to look more
00:38:17.320
female. So this is what Target was selling in their stores prominently just two years ago.
00:38:24.240
They were also selling compression tops, which are really tight sports bras for women who are trying
00:38:30.720
to identify as the opposite sex. Again, it's kind of difficult to know is this targeted towards
00:38:35.880
adolescents or not because it's all kind of like rainbow and, you know, like the trans flag is baby
00:38:41.940
colors. And so I think actually the obscuring of those lines is purposeful when it comes to this kind
00:38:49.540
of activist. But there are actually serious health problems that come with compressing your breasts,
00:38:57.900
especially as an adolescent. And Target was selling this. Target was selling trans flags.
00:39:06.380
They partnered with a brand called Abprelin UK. And we talked about this at the time,
00:39:15.540
selling, you know, trans flags on fanny packs and t-shirts. And this person also had blatantly
00:39:22.540
Satan-worshipping products. Not that they were selling at Target, but that they were selling
00:39:27.900
elsewhere. And Target, of course, knew that and still partnered with them. All kinds of bathing suits
00:39:34.380
and underwear and pro-trans t-shirts. And they got huge backlash for this. And at the time,
00:39:43.880
I did an episode asking why Chip and Joanna Gaines hadn't spoken about it. They have such a prominent
00:39:49.200
partnership with Target. And I said, and I still believe that public figures do not have the
00:39:54.320
responsibility to comment on everything. I don't think Chip and Joanna Gaines are responsible for
00:40:00.160
what Target puts out. I don't think they were a part of that collaboration. I don't think they
00:40:03.980
advised on it. I don't even think they said, yeah, Target, you go. I don't know. Maybe I'm giving
00:40:08.600
too much of the benefit of the doubt there. But the reason I think that they had the
00:40:13.640
responsibility to say something about it is because they had not been silent about other
00:40:18.400
cultural issues that they had cared about. In 2020, Joanna Gaines posted the Black
00:40:23.520
Square, saying that she was committed to listening and learning. They did Uncomfortable
00:40:28.580
Conversations with a Black Man, which was a series by Emmanuel Ako. That series pushed the
00:40:34.720
lies of systemic racism, of critical race theory, of white fragility, and white privilege over and
00:40:41.600
over again. He also has pushed the lie of being a reasonable pro-abortion or pro-choice person
00:40:49.440
as a Christian. So just, again, progressive slop and nonsense that is covered with Christian-sounding
00:40:57.480
language. And so they participated in that. There were several articles that reported, including
00:41:05.420
at the Today Show website, today.com, where in 2021, Chip and Joanna said, you know, the
00:41:12.020
thing that really keeps them up at night, Joanna said specifically, what eats my lunch is people
00:41:16.840
thinking that, you know, we don't like LGBTQ people or that we're racist. That is so far
00:41:22.300
from who we are. And of course, no Christian wants to be seen as that. I'm not saying that
00:41:27.840
they should want to be seen as hateful. I understand why that bothers them. But what I am saying is that
00:41:32.880
they really care what the world thinks about them in this way, at least, at least according
00:41:38.040
to their own words, they seem to care about that. They've spoken up about issues that they
00:41:42.900
see as justice issues, as they see as affecting negatively the, like a marginalized population.
00:41:51.720
And yet they were not willing to speak up publicly for the pushing of an ideology that is literally
00:41:58.840
butchering the bodies of gender confused children and permanently sterilizing them.
00:42:05.820
Sexualizing children who say that they're confused about their gender. I mean, they were partnering
00:42:10.820
with the prominent entity doing that. And they didn't speak up about that. But they did speak up
00:42:16.460
about the nebulous concept of racism possibly causing George Floyd's death. And I just think that's an
00:42:23.860
interesting choice. Like if you're going to speak into the culture war, it seems like speaking into
00:42:30.080
the gender nonsense that again is mutilating children's bodies and damaging their minds and
00:42:36.340
souls. Like it seems like that would be a good one to speak up about, especially when that battle
00:42:43.440
was raging, but they chose not to. There are also people around them that are very pro-LGBTQ.
00:42:53.860
that they've worked with in the past. And this is all public, by the way, Clint Harp that they've
00:42:59.240
worked with for a long time. Very outspoken Kamala Harris, Biden supporter. And then you also have
00:43:07.760
this person that they used to work with. His name is Billy Jack Bronner. And he actually, I have no idea
00:43:14.960
who this person is. I don't think I've ever interacted with him, did not know who he was, but he apparently
00:43:19.740
blocked me on Instagram. And we don't have to get into like his entire story. I just think that this
00:43:26.280
particular post is very telling. And I had someone verify that this is actually a comment by Joanna
00:43:32.180
Gaines, that this is real. So he posted, you know, he was married to a woman, had several children with
00:43:39.540
her, and now he has come out as gay and is in love with a man. And he has a caption on Instagram from
00:43:46.780
2021 explaining this. He said, I'm learning. I was a gay little boy who grew up hating myself. I'm a gay
00:43:52.880
man who is learning to love myself. I am so good. I'm raising babies who are so good. My best friend
00:43:58.780
on the planet who is so good. I'm in love with a man who is so good. My life is so good. And Joanna
00:44:04.140
Gaines commented, yes, you are so good. We love you. So I just think that that's probably a good
00:44:11.740
indicator of where their heart is and where their mind is when it comes to the LGBTQ issue.
00:44:19.120
They are going to, when it comes to their public statements, at least recently in the past few
00:44:26.460
years, they are going to lean left. They simply are. At least that's what it seems. They are going to
00:44:33.420
lean secular. There are a few other connections that they have. People that they are friends with who
00:44:40.880
are very outspoken about being pro-transgenderism. For example, one half of the Johnny Swim duo that
00:44:49.700
they are really good friends with, Amanda Sudano, has recorded a song promoting transgenderism.
00:44:56.460
That doesn't, that alone, that connection does not mean that Chip and Joanna Gaines are pro-transgenderism.
00:45:02.080
But again, I think they're all pretty good indicators of where they stand on this. So maybe you love that.
00:45:08.520
Maybe you love where they stand on all of that. And maybe you are right there with them. And maybe
00:45:14.520
that's what you want to promote and what you think needs to be glorified and celebrated and normalized.
00:45:20.120
And you are totally free. Like there is a market for you. You will get the kind of content that
00:45:26.020
you're looking for. And if you are someone who is in the content creating space, there is a lot of
00:45:30.680
money there. You will get the accolades. You will get the mainstream support. And you might even tell
00:45:35.800
yourself if you're a Christian, the more mainstream you are, the more opportunity you have to share the
00:45:40.580
gospel with people. And you might even see that God is giving you these partnerships with all of these
00:45:47.100
entities and giving you money and giving you fame because he is approving of what you do. And he is approving
00:45:56.640
of the choices you make. And that is a very, very dangerous place to be. You can do that. You have the
00:46:03.840
freedom to do that. That is not the space that Christians occupy, however. That is not the thinking
00:46:10.640
that people who love Jesus have. You can think that way. You can completely disagree with me. And
00:46:17.660
you can, as Chip Gaines does, define judgment and define hate exactly like the world does. And you can
00:46:24.380
believe, like so many do, that you are nicer than God. That you have found a way to out-compassion God,
00:46:31.800
to out-empathy God, to out-inclusion God, and to out-love God. You can believe that. Just know that
00:46:40.040
in believing that, you've exchanged the God of Scripture for the God of self because you think
00:46:44.940
that you are better and wiser than God is. That what God calls sin, the things he says is sin,
00:46:53.440
that's just too mean. And God didn't really know what he was talking about when he said that.
00:46:58.640
And so let's just ignore those parts. Let's use our own strategy to try to maybe evangelize to
00:47:04.720
people and love people. And let's see how that works. You can do that. I don't think it's going
00:47:11.200
to lead you in the right direction. So I'll end on what the Bible has to say about all of this in just
00:47:17.480
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Sadly, it seems it appears this way based on his public statements. And I would have maybe been
00:49:11.940
willing to give more of the BOD had it not been for his doubling down and his condescension. But it
00:49:17.180
seems that Chip Gaines has bought into the lie that condemning sin is mean and that agreeing with God
00:49:27.200
is judgmental and hateful. And that to me reveals that he is not defining judgment and hate the way
00:49:36.240
that God defines these things, but he is judging them. He is defining them how the world defines these
00:49:44.500
things. And here was my response to Chip Gaines on X. Chip, you can't outlove God. God is love,
00:49:55.140
which means two things. One, he gets to define it. Two, everything he says and does, he says and does
00:50:00.920
in love. And 1 Corinthians 13, 6, this God who is love, who defines love, tells us what love looks
00:50:09.080
like. And he says that love, among other things, never rejoices in wrongdoing, but rejoices with the
00:50:16.300
truth. By choosing this, you are rejoicing in wrongdoing and rejecting the truth. By choosing
00:50:24.320
to glorify that which God calls sin, a disordered desire that hurts the body and soul of those who
00:50:30.340
are ruled by it. Romans 1, 26 through 32. Thus, you are neither loving God nor loving people by this
00:50:37.760
decision. If God is love, then in love, he created marriage as exclusively between one man and one woman.
00:50:44.160
This is the only kind of marriage God calls good. Jesus affirms this in Matthew 19, 4 through 5.
00:50:51.520
Every kind of sexuality outside of this union, he calls sin. Sin hurts people and it angers the God
00:50:59.880
you say you serve. The least loving thing possible is to normalize it. Remember, the most loving thing
00:51:08.700
we can do in every situation is agree with God. Disagreeing with God is no small deal. Encouraging
00:51:19.300
others to disagree with God is an even bigger deal. I seem to remember something about a millstone.
00:51:29.400
Something to keep in mind. And of course, I am referencing Matthew 18, 6 through 7, where Jesus says,
00:51:38.700
but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, and many scholars believe
00:51:44.340
that he's actually not talking specifically about children, but he's talking about his followers,
00:51:48.860
it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the
00:51:55.400
depth of the sea. Wow, that sounds terrible. We're not supposed to be seeking accolades and affirmation
00:52:04.900
from the world. In fact, James 4, 4 says, you adulterous people, do you not know that friendship
00:52:10.640
with the world is enmity with God? Therefore, whoever wishes to be a friend of the world
00:52:16.400
makes himself an enemy of God. And wow, I just want you to know that as I'm reading these scriptures,
00:52:23.620
I'm not just thinking, wow, all those bad people out there. No, the word of God convicts me and may
00:52:29.260
it always convicts me. And may it shoot me all the way to the heart so that I read these verses too
00:52:36.640
and am reminded that friendship with the world is enmity with God. But I think the more money you have,
00:52:43.780
the more difficult it is to remember this. I think that's why we read that it is actually easier
00:52:51.000
for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, think about that, than it is for a rich man to enter
00:52:56.520
the kingdom of heaven. But remember, the verse after that says, but with God, all things are
00:53:00.720
possible. So it's not impossible, but you could see how it's difficult, right? Mark 8, 36 says,
00:53:07.600
for what does it profit a man to gain the whole world? To gain all the money, all the success,
00:53:12.980
all the fame, all the inroads into the mainstream, all the affirmation from celebrities and forfeit his
00:53:19.540
soul. First Timothy 6, 10, for the love of money. This could be true for a rich or a poor person,
00:53:27.100
by the way, for the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that
00:53:32.480
some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs. This is an important
00:53:40.860
verse. John 15, 18. Okay. This is again, for all of us, for all of us to remember. If the world hates
00:53:49.740
you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. That's what Jesus says. That's what we can expect.
00:53:58.100
We can expect to be called names. We can expect to be misunderstood. We can expect to be labeled a
00:54:06.240
bigot or hateful or judgmental because we say that God's way is better. Remember, the most
00:54:13.580
controversial verse in the Bible, I think, is Genesis 1, 1. In the beginning, God created the
00:54:19.300
heavens and the earth. Because if he is the creator over all of it, then he is the authority over all
00:54:23.960
of it. If he is the authority over all of it, then he and he alone gets to say what is and what isn't,
00:54:29.220
what's right and what's wrong, what's good and what's bad, what a marriage is and what it's not.
00:54:34.760
If we believe that God is the creator, if we believe that he is the authority, if we believe
00:54:42.360
that he is who he says he is, if he really is the alpha and the omega, if he really is love,
00:54:50.200
as 1 John 4, 8 says, then the only thing that we can do as people who say that we love him and serve
00:54:57.700
him is obey and agree with him. Yes, even at great cost, even when Chip Gaines calls you,
00:55:04.740
hateful. That's part of what it takes. And you know what? It's a pretty low cost here in the
00:55:12.940
United States in 2025. Not a low cost for everyone. I just want to acknowledge there's a lot of
00:55:18.380
Christians out there who have sacrificed a lot employment, money, fame, relationships for standing
00:55:23.760
strong in your faith, even on these controversial issues. But let's be real. If Chip and Joanna Gaines
00:55:30.020
decided that they were going to, say, go the way of Phil Robertson and Duck Dynasty and say,
00:55:35.280
you know what? I'm not going to affirm homosexuality. I'm not going to stop talking
00:55:38.420
about these things. You can stick it where the sun don't shine. They would be fine. They'd be fine.
00:55:44.800
They'd be giving up very, very little, actually. And they would be actually probably gaining the respect
00:55:51.080
of a lot of people and giving their courage to a lot of people by standing strong and giving up
00:55:57.940
money and affirmation and acceptance, even when it's really hard. So let's be honest about that.
00:56:05.760
We're talking about the first chapter of the first book of the Bible, okay?
00:56:09.320
Not even getting 30 verses into Scripture before God tells us what marriage is.
00:56:13.060
And what is it rooted in creation? Reiterated throughout Scripture, honor your father and
00:56:19.040
mother, repeated by Jesus himself, Matthew 19, 4 through 5, representative of Christ and the
00:56:24.360
church, Ephesians 5, and therefore reflective of the gospel. That is why when people start denying
00:56:30.380
Genesis 127 and the importance of Genesis 127, they eventually deny John 14, 6, that Jesus is the
00:56:37.600
only way, truth, and life, and that no one comes to the Father except through him, because marriage is
00:56:42.400
a physical, earthly representation of a spiritual, eternal reality that is seen in the gospel itself.
00:56:49.940
The Bible starts with a marriage and ends with a marriage. It's not just a couple verses in
00:56:53.520
Leviticus. And by the way, even if it were all of the Bible is God's word, whatever God says,
00:57:02.060
Jesus is saying also because they're three in one. So again, I just don't see any justification for
00:57:09.660
this. I don't. Like, I really thought about, because I saw people defending them, people I
00:57:15.180
respect defending them, who know them. And I'm like, okay, I'm really trying to see that. I really
00:57:21.400
am. And if you think I'm wrong, if you think that there is some glaring thing that I'm just not
00:57:26.160
seeing here that, like, someone handcuffed them and was like, you will be gay on this show, or else,
00:57:32.680
like, I don't know, we're going to do something really bad. Like, okay, if they were held hostage,
00:57:38.400
then maybe. But other, I mean, still, I don't see it. So tell me, if I'm being blinded to something,
00:57:46.820
if you think I'm being overly critical, then tell me, but seems like voluntarily promoting,
00:57:53.480
celebrating what God says will kill the body and soul. And wow, I just can't imagine loving God and
00:58:00.100
loving people and doing that for money. Seems inexcusable. All right, let me pause,
00:58:06.900
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That's RangeLeather.com slash Allie. Okay, one final thing I just wanted to say, and maybe we'll
00:59:03.260
have time to talk about it a little bit more on Wednesday, but I just wanted to ask you to please
00:59:07.660
pray for John MacArthur and pray for his wife and pray for his church family, pray for his children,
00:59:13.740
grandchildren, and I believe great-grandchildren as well. Via the Christian Post, John MacArthur,
00:59:18.680
the 86-year-old longtime California pastor and broadcaster, has been admitted to the hospital
00:59:23.460
with pneumonia. The announcement was made during Sunday worship with a church leader telling the
00:59:28.200
congregation he may be in the presence of the Lord soon. So he apparently is not expected to
00:59:36.740
recover. He has had health issues for the past few years, but man, he has—I'm going to try not to
00:59:44.060
tear up. He has run this race. My goodness. He has been so faithful, so faithful to his church that
00:59:52.020
he has been pastoring since, I believe, 1969, faithful to his wife, and faithful to the ministry
00:59:58.740
that the Lord has called him to, and just completely unapologetic and unwavering and standing upon what
01:00:04.520
the Word of God says about every single issue and talk about someone who does not care about friendship
01:00:11.080
with the world. He doesn't care about friendship with the world. You know, Paul says in Philippians
01:00:16.320
1 that to live is Christ and to die is gain. When he dies, it will be his gain. It will feel like
01:00:21.580
our loss. It will feel very tangibly like his family's loss, but he will be exactly where he
01:00:27.960
wants to go. Now, the Lord can also heal him physically, and we could have 10 more years with
01:00:33.380
him, and I pray that, and I would love that, but I pray more that God would be glorified,
01:00:38.260
that he would have peace in his body, in his mind, in his soul, that his family would have the peace
01:00:43.440
that passes all understanding, that his legacy would continue to glorify God forever and ever.
01:00:50.300
So just keep them in mind. Keep their church in mind and the ministries in mind as they possibly
01:00:56.660
go through a really difficult transition. All right, that's all we've got time for today. We will be back