Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1217 ｜ Chip & Joanna Gaines Go All In on Gay Marriage

00:00:00.000 Chip and Joanna Gaines are the executive producers of a new reality TV show that is prominently featuring a gay couple and their surrogacy-born sons.

00:00:12.900 When they received backlash from many Christian conservative fans, Chip Gaines decided that he would double down.

00:00:21.720 We will go into all of this today, as well as the background that makes this really significant, on today's episode of Relatable.

00:00:29.380 It's brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to GoodRanchers.com. Use code ALI at checkout. That's GoodRanchers.com, code ALI.

00:00:45.900 Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Monday. Hope everyone had a wonderful weekend. It is great to be back in the studio with you all.

00:00:53.840 You guys are loving the episode that I put out with Lila last Friday. We are already planning hopefully a part two on Lila's show. I appreciated all of your positive feedback. I was a little nervous to put out that episode just because not everyone handles the tenseness of disagreement well as an audience member.

00:01:16.700 For example, my mom texted me after and was like, are you and Lila still friends? And I was like, yes, we are still friends. And Lila's, you know, she's really good at disagreeing and then coming together in a respectful way. And I would like to think that I am as well.

00:01:31.840 And so I really enjoyed that. There's so much that I wish that we could have gotten to. And in hindsight, I kind of just wish that we would have extended it. But we were on a really tight schedule that day. And so it was hard to do.

00:01:46.320 But there's so much that I wish, you know, I would have asked that I would have said and maybe Lila feels the same. That's always true in discussions and debates. And so if you're thinking like, why didn't you say this? Why didn't you go there? Trust me, like there, if you've ever done some kind of like discussion or debate or even like personal argument with someone, there's always something afterward that you wish that you had said or said differently.

00:02:09.040 But nevertheless, I do appreciate y'all's feedback, especially those of you who are kind and appreciated the respectful tone of the discussion. So we'll be back with more on that soon. Also, because it's Monday, I just want to give a little bit of encouragement before we get into what I think is a very sad and disturbing story today. And that is the only thing that you are responsible to do today is the will of God.

00:02:34.720 I love that quote from Elizabeth Elliot. It always gives me so much comfort. And when you don't know what that is, all you can ever do, all you have the capacity to do is the next right thing in faith with excellence and for the glory of God. That part is not from Elizabeth Elliot. That's just kind of an add on from one of her quotes that we've said many times over the years. It is a comfort to me. I like to start out my week with that mentality. And I hope it's a comfort to you as well.

00:03:00.500 All right, let's talk about Chip and Joanna Gaines. So many of y'all have been asking me to comment on this story over the weekend. I've only said a little bit on X. I haven't given my full take and full analysis on Instagram. I wanted to gather all of the relevant information, collect myself and give the best and most biblical response that I can.

00:03:25.700 Chip and Joanna, if you didn't know, are the stars of that HGTV show, Fixer Upper. They're the owners of Magnolia. This is a lifestyle brand. They sell a lot of their products in Target. And they also have a magazine. They've got a TV network.

00:03:44.100 And Magnolia is now partnering with HBO for a new show that aired on July 10th called Back to the Frontier. And this show prominently features a gay couple. It is a reality show. There are three different families that are trying to rough it in a frontier type setting.

00:04:06.700 Like they're living in the 1800s. And one of the families is two men and two boys that they purchased via surrogate. And we will get into more details about that family in a second.

00:04:20.040 But understandably, there has been a lot of concern expressed and a lot of backlash because Chip and Joanna Gaines have been prominent and outspoken Christians since they rose to fame several years ago.

00:04:35.520 Fixer Upper started in 2013 and very quickly they made their faith public. They did interviews where they talked about the importance of their faith. It was very obvious that they loved each other.

00:04:51.080 I think that's something that a lot of Christians really liked that even on networks like HGTV or TLC, you would see a lot of just strife and disrespect within marriages and kind of making the dad look, you know, stupid or not respected, not loved.

00:05:11.160 I mean, think of something like John and Kate plus eight. Terrible, awful discord in that relationship. And you saw this very cute, very attractive Christian couple that simply liked to flip houses, primarily in Waco, Texas, who just kind of like fit the bill for the kind of people that we would be friends with, that like Southern evangelicals would be friends with and would want to hang out with.

00:05:39.480 And that is why they gained such a huge following. At the very beginning, it was like almost exclusively these Southern conservative Christians who were like, yes, that represents me, represents my family. And they also just seem like really cool, awesome people that share values. How cool.

00:05:59.720 And so these people now they feel betrayed, not only because their show that they are executive producers of is highlighting a family that is engaged in what God calls sin, but also because Chip Gaines has decided to double down on this after people raised a very respectful ruckus.

00:06:24.720 They raised their very legitimate concerns, they raised their very legitimate concerns, asked totally valid questions. He is responding to that backlash, that criticism, that pushback with abject condescension. And that is really sad to see.

00:06:39.620 So we're going to back up a little bit, talk about the details of this, talk about the backlash and talk about who these people are, that Chip and Joanna Gaines, who claim to be very strong Christians, have intentionally decided to hoist up.

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00:09:51.440 Okay, let's get in a little bit more, into a little bit more about the details of this show.

00:10:02.680 So Chip Gaines posted on X.

00:10:04.040 Y'all are going to love this show, Social Experiment, plus Family Time Well Spent,

00:10:09.100 and then posted the picture of Back to the Frontier.

00:10:12.960 It's an eight-episode reality TV series and social experiment produced by Magnolia Network,

00:10:18.700 streaming on HBO Max. The show follows three modern American families, the Lopers from Alabama, 0.94

00:10:26.940 the Halls, the Hannah Riggs from Texas, who live as 1880s homesteaders for eight weeks on 10,000 acres

00:10:34.320 in Canada. They don't have electricity or any water, and they're raising livestock,

00:10:41.180 and so just trying to see if they can survive, you know, going through the hardships that they have

00:10:46.660 without the modern conveniences. The gay couple that is featured in this show, their names are Jason

00:10:53.440 and Joe, and they have twin 10-year-old sons. And as I said, they were born via surrogacy.

00:11:00.880 That is a subject that we have talked about many, many times on this show. And when we get more

00:11:05.840 into the story that they have publicly shared, I will share, if you're new here, my concerns,

00:11:12.160 not only about practicing surrogacy, but also promoting it by normalizing this kind of family

00:11:19.520 set up. Here's thought one. Arriving next for the ultimate digital detox.

00:11:26.860 Oh, look at this. You guys ready? Yep.

00:11:30.760 Our Dallas-based dads, the Hannah Riggs.

00:11:34.160 All of your tech here, phones, devices.

00:11:37.380 Okay. What's first? No more work. No more emails. No more pings. No more bings. Everywhere we go.

00:11:43.980 Are you guys ready to get rid of these devices?

00:11:45.400 No. Alexa, good morning.

00:11:52.760 I'm Jason Hannah. My name is Joe Riggs. We have our twin boys, Ethan and Lucas, that are 10 years old.

00:12:01.000 All right. So that is Jason and Joe. Now, in an interview with an LGBTQ outlet called Queer Tea,

00:12:10.140 Jason, one of the guys, explained that they decided to apply for this show because they wanted to

00:12:18.360 normalize same-sex relationships. Here's that, too.

00:12:21.420 I first saw the flyer on social media. There was a gay couple on the flyer. And so that initially kind

00:12:27.640 of sparked my interest. And I was very much intrigued in learning more about the show and kind of what

00:12:32.740 what that experience was going to be. I'm super honored that when they were choosing three modern

00:12:39.280 day families, that they did choose a same-sex couple as a modern day family because we are.

00:12:44.500 We are your neighbors and your coworkers. And so it was this great, amazing opportunity

00:12:50.280 to normalize same-sex couples and same-sex families.

00:12:53.800 I was on board with the whole concept of continue to normalize same-sex families. I think through

00:12:58.200 our Instagram, through our $2 Dads account, that's one of the reasons we put ourselves out

00:13:02.120 there because of our adoption issues. Yeah, they say adoption there, but actually later we learned

00:13:09.500 that it wasn't adoption. If the reporting is actually correct, that it was surrogacy, which is

00:13:15.380 a big difference as we'll get into. But just a couple of things there I also want to highlight.

00:13:19.640 So number one, their mission is to normalize forced motherlessness, which is the forcing

00:13:27.960 of a child to live without their mother. And that is what is going on here, of course. And so they

00:13:35.220 wanted to glorify that. They wanted to expand their platform so that more people could see this kind

00:13:42.340 of relationship and more people could think, okay, maybe a mom is unnecessary. Maybe a husband can 1.00

00:13:47.920 become a wife and maybe a dad can become a mom. I mean, it is functional transgenderism.

00:13:55.000 Even if people aren't actually identifying as the opposite sex, they are certainly identifying as the 1.00

00:14:01.740 opposite gender role. And it's the same math. Thinking husbands and wives and moms and dads are 0.55

00:14:07.240 interchangeable is the same math as thinking men and women are interchangeable. So they're hoping to 0.90

00:14:12.520 normalize that. And number two, I want to highlight that they saw a flyer with a gay couple on it.

00:14:18.000 So that means from the get-go, they were trying, Magnolia Network along with HBO, they were trying to

00:14:26.140 attract a gay couple. It's not one of those things where, okay, they weren't looking for that. They

00:14:31.700 just stumbled upon this exceptionally charismatic couple. And they just said, okay, we have to go with

00:14:39.300 them. Not that I would think that's a justification for Christian executive producers to do, but that's 1.00

00:14:44.940 not how it happened. From the get-go, that's what they were looking for. And if you don't think that

00:14:51.220 Chip and Joanna had a say in that, or at least knowledge of that and confirmed that, then you're

00:14:58.860 crazy. Or maybe you just don't understand the level of influence that they have as the executive

00:15:04.880 producers of this show. Now, we know that HBO is as progressive as it gets. And so I wouldn't be

00:15:11.600 surprised if HBO is saying, okay, we have to meet this diversity criteria. This is what we're going

00:15:16.960 to do. But I promise you as well that Chip and Joanna at any point in these negotiations could

00:15:22.880 have said, no, we're not. I'm sorry. We're just not going to do that. We're not going to be able to

00:15:27.240 fulfill those quotas. Maybe they could have said, we're fine with a racial diversity, but this is what

00:15:33.120 our faith says. And we're just not willing to compromise on that. Understand, HBO, if you don't

00:15:38.620 want to work with us, but we cannot put our name on something that is celebrating and normalizing

00:15:43.560 what our faith, what the God that we believe in calls sin. That was an option. We don't have to

00:15:51.780 know every single detail of the behind-the-scenes negotiations to be able to deduce that. So from

00:15:57.440 the beginning, this was being advertised. And this now is a guess, but I wouldn't be surprised if

00:16:03.500 these people said in their application process, said in their interview process, this is our

00:16:08.380 mission. We want to normalize this. We think this is good. This is a different kind of family where we

00:16:15.600 don't have a mom for our children. And we want more people to see this as good and right and true. 0.51

00:16:21.920 I guarantee you that Chip and Joanna at some point were told that that was the mission.

00:16:29.000 And still at that point, apparently they still didn't say anything. They didn't say, you know

00:16:34.460 what? That's, it's just not a, it's not a mission that we can get behind. Apparently it was a mission

00:16:41.200 that they decided that they were ready to celebrate as well. So a little bit more about this couple.

00:16:47.180 They are no stranger to headlines and I guess seeking some kind of platform and notoriety.

00:16:53.780 They made headlines in 2014 when they fought to get their names on the birth certificates of their

00:16:59.160 twin boys, Ethan and Lucas, that were born via surrogacy. They faced legal challenges in being

00:17:05.380 recognized as parents in the state of Texas. So each man is the biological father of one twin,

00:17:12.520 but due to Texas's ban on gay marriage at the time, a judge, this is pre-Obergefell. It's crazy

00:17:19.020 how quickly things have moved. A judge denied their request to be listed on the twins birth

00:17:23.760 certificates or to co-adopt each other's biological child. Instead, the only, only the surrogate mother 0.99

00:17:30.020 who actually had no biological connection to the twins was listed on the birth certificates. This left the

00:17:35.940 couple with no legal rights to each other's child. They were able to petition a judge in 2015 after

00:17:43.060 Obergefell. And so they were able to, you know, put their names on the birth certificate, I assume,

00:17:49.300 after that. Okay. If you don't know anything about surrogacy, we will link some of my past episodes

00:17:55.780 about it. It is very important for you to know what is going on in this world thousands of times

00:18:04.100 a year. So all surrogacy involves some of these steps, but especially with two men, since no one

00:18:11.420 in that relationship can make or carry a baby, you need women to be able to do that. And so if you've 1.00

00:18:19.220 got two men who want children that are biologically related to one of them, or if they want multiple

00:18:24.960 kids, biologically related to both of them, what they have to do is one, pick an egg seller. You've

00:18:31.020 probably heard the term egg donor. That is actually a misnomer. That woman is getting paid a lot of money 1.00

00:18:36.120 for her DNA, for her eggs. So they might pick her out of a catalog. In rare cases, they might know the egg

00:18:42.820 donor, but very often they can actually go to these clinics that provide a catalog that you can pick all

00:18:49.380 different kinds of characteristics that the egg donor has that you want passed down to your child. And then you

00:18:54.680 pick a separate woman. And that woman is called the surrogate. And that is the womb that you are 1.00

00:18:59.140 renting. Again, you are paying that woman tens of thousands of dollars. This is not an altruistic

00:19:03.800 act that this woman is doing. She is getting paid. And I don't know the specific details of their setup,

00:19:10.640 but this is how it goes. She's getting paid for her body and for her time and for her literal labor. 1.00

00:19:19.160 And so the egg from the egg seller is inseminated with the sperm of one of the guys and they create 0.74

00:19:29.960 as many eggs as they can. And from there, they go through the IVF process, which typically involves

00:19:36.120 grading or sorry, embryos, not eggs. It typically involves grading the embryos to see which is healthiest.

00:19:44.500 They can even decide on gender. They can discard the embryos that don't have the characteristics that they 0.63

00:19:52.620 want. And then they transfer the embryos of the gender of the strength that they want into the womb of the 0.95

00:20:02.140 surrogate who is pumped with all kinds of artificial hormones. So her body will try to accept this foreign 0.99

00:20:09.680 object and will actually accept and grow the pregnancy. And so you're paying two separate

00:20:17.280 women. You're discarding all kinds of embryos all so two men can do what God created them not to be 1.00

00:20:26.020 able to do. And that is have biological children without a mother that is raising them. As I said, 0.95

00:20:34.180 this is forced motherlessness. This is a social experiment in which we are laying the well-being

00:20:41.380 of children on the altar of adult desire. And there is nothing more disordered than that.

00:20:49.380 Demanding children who cannot consent to this motherlessness to sacrifice their innate needs,

00:20:56.660 their biological longing for their mother in service to the desires, the disordered desires

00:21:05.000 of adults that is wrong. I'm not saying these people don't love their kids. I'm not saying they

00:21:10.840 don't take care of their kids. They could be good dads. The problem is they're not a mom. 1.00

00:21:16.260 And every child has a right to a mother and a father. And so, I mean, even aside from the homosexuality, 0.51

00:21:22.900 which God clearly calls sin, we can get into that in a second, we are also normalizing and glorifying

00:21:30.840 a process that commodifies the bodies of women, that commercializes the reproductive process, 1.00

00:21:40.580 and that, again, exploits the vulnerability of children. And Christians are called to care

00:21:48.300 for the fatherless. And in this case, we're talking about a motherless child, which to me seems like

00:21:55.380 it would go in the same biblical category as fatherlessness. That is a category of vulnerability

00:22:00.920 that Christians are called to care about. Man, this is such an enormous fail on the part of Chip and 0.99

00:22:09.120 Joanna Gaines, and it makes me really sad. And we'll get into more of it in just a second. Let me pause

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00:23:20.980 goodranchers.com, code Allie. Jason and Joe are also major activists, LGBTQ activists in Dallas. And so

00:23:35.520 again, Chip and Joanna knew all of this before they chose this family, and they did choose the family.

00:23:42.820 This is also not the Gaines' first partnership with HBO Max. Their Magnolia Network has been closely

00:23:48.500 tied to HBO. I think that's significant, because they know the standards that HBO has. And I'm sure

00:23:55.780 HBO pays really good money, but they know that this would be part and parcel of what they do. And I just

00:24:06.160 really don't see the justification that they could have made in their minds for this. I mean,

00:24:16.820 there are some things that I'm like, okay, I don't see it that way. I don't think that's the best

00:24:21.120 witness, but maybe that's working for them. Maybe that mode is working for them. It is hard for me to

00:24:26.940 understand how they could have excused this in their mind. So as I said, Chip Gaines is doubling down

00:24:36.660 on this after he's received pushback. So he posted this. He said,

00:24:44.660 talk, ask questions, listen, maybe even learn. Too much to ask of modern American Christian culture. 0.95

00:24:51.140 Judge first, understand later slash never. It is a sad Sunday when non-believers have never been 1.00

00:24:57.980 confronted with hate or vitriol until they are introduced to a modern American Christian. I mean,

00:25:04.700 what left-wing secular slop? I mean, seriously, that is just the propagandist of the secular slop that I

00:25:14.120 have ever heard. Oh my goodness. Okay. So here's what he's responding to. What he is saying is judgment

00:25:20.700 and vitriol and hate that is represented apparently by modern American Christians. Megan Basham. This

00:25:30.620 apparently is hateful, according to Chip Gaines. This is incredibly disappointing. She says to the

00:25:36.040 report that they are highlighting this gay couple. Not particularly surprising when the Gaines has 1.00

00:25:41.820 chose to stay silent through Target's promotion of transgender merchandise to children. They of course 1.00

00:25:46.480 have a massive Target retail line. It was pretty clear that they had little interest in being a public

00:25:51.360 witness anymore. Highlighting their faith early in their business building helped get them where they

00:25:56.480 are, but they don't need to do it anymore. It is indeed very sad. You know, Megan Basham, she talked

00:26:03.220 about how she was like such a raving fan of them and used to write articles about them for World

00:26:08.880 Magazine. She felt like so many people did at the time that, yes, this is an awesome Christian family

00:26:16.040 loving, fun loving couple that is building this amazing empire in Waco that we want to support because

00:26:24.580 there being a light in the world. And so I think she's genuinely expressing this disappointment,

00:26:31.640 that this is sad, that this feels like betrayal. You know, we saw this a lot in 2020 with some of the

00:26:36.720 so-called Christian celebrities that decided suddenly they hated white evangelicals, that white evangelicals

00:26:43.600 who voted for Trump were the problem when it was white evangelicals who boosted a lot of their careers for

00:26:50.020 so long. Like I'm thinking of, well, maybe I won't say the names because I don't have the direct

00:26:56.780 quotes from what they're saying, but there were quite a few Christian artists and Christian authors

00:27:01.160 who back in 2020 decided that they were going to lambast all of the white Christian conservatives out

00:27:07.420 there. Well, those were the very people that helped them gain a platform because they supported

00:27:12.960 their message. And it just feels like that's what's happening. I mean, literally, if you take conservative

00:27:18.780 Christians out of the world, Chip and Joanna don't exist. Magnolia Network does not exist. There's just 0.99

00:27:24.400 not enough. There's not quite enough. I'm not saying they don't have a diverse ideological

00:27:29.380 audience. They do now, but there's not enough of those people that support Magnolia for them to have 0.99

00:27:35.820 grown the empire that they do. And by the way, if you don't know, it really is an empire. Like

00:27:41.320 Magnolia is huge. People will pilgrimage to Waco just to see Magnolia. I've personally never been there.

00:27:48.200 But I know people who have traveled from out of state to go because it's really cool and it's

00:27:53.200 really beautiful. And obviously, Joanna especially is just so talented and has this amazing sense of 0.90

00:27:59.060 style that can appeal to so many different kinds of people and the impact that they've had on Waco.

00:28:05.080 And by the way, after these last two episodes, criticizing Chip and Joanna Gaines' decision and

00:28:11.180 criticizing Baylor's decision, I think I'm probably going to be banned from Waco. I'm not going to ever be

00:28:17.920 able to go there. But it's interesting. Actually, that was a conversation I had with my team before

00:28:23.080 last Wednesday's episode about Baylor University. I asked, like, the politics of Waco, has Waco shifted

00:28:31.300 because not only of Baylor, but also because of Chip and Joanna Gaines and their liberalizing effect

00:28:38.280 on the spaces they occupy? And I do believe they have a liberalizing effect on the spaces

00:28:43.300 they occupy, which we'll get into in just a few minutes. So the LGBTQ lobby came for Chip and

00:28:51.160 Joanna Gaines because they didn't feature gay couples on Fixer Upper back in 2016. And so people

00:28:58.920 called them homophobic, like it was this whole scandal. And Megan Basham, quote, tweeted a Chip Gaines

00:29:05.400 post from December of 2016, where Chip says, in times of trouble, you'll find the Gaines family at

00:29:11.120 church. Megan said, this is what you said in 2016. What happened to this man? Franklin Graham. And I was

00:29:17.620 really appreciative that Franklin Graham spoke up about this because I don't really see him, you know,

00:29:23.600 often speaking up specifically about what's going on, like in the culture war on a day-to-day basis.

00:29:28.500 He more posts about like kind of bigger picture things. But I really appreciated that he said

00:29:33.540 something. He said, I hope this isn't true. But I read today that Chip and Joanna Gaines are featuring a

00:29:38.000 gay couple in their new series. If it is true, it is very disappointing. While we are to love people, 1.00

00:29:42.940 we should love them enough to tell them the truth of God's word. His word is absolute truth. God loves

00:29:47.800 us. And his design for marriage is between one man and one woman. He's absolutely right. That is the 0.99

00:29:54.340 crux of the matter, that God is love. And if we are to love other people, we tell them the truth.

00:30:01.580 Katie Faust says,

00:30:02.680 You are promoting a household where two men custom-ordered two motherless boys. That is true. 1.00

00:30:10.020 Maybe you thought you were being kind or inclusive to the adults, but you're actually complicit in

00:30:14.320 quote, causing the little ones to stumble. Matt Walsh, Chip and Joanna Gaines produced a new

00:30:21.880 reality show that prominently features a gay male couple with two children. Chip's response to the

00:30:25.600 Christians who rightly criticized the decision is to, of course, condemn them as hateful bigots. 0.91

00:30:31.240 And that is just true. That's exactly what he did. Joel Berry had a back and forth with Chip Gaines.

00:30:36.820 Joel Berry is of the Babylon Bee, very solid Christian. We've had him on the show. Joel said,

00:30:41.440 You'll see no hate from me. I'm just sad. So this is in response to what Chip said about, oh,

00:30:45.960 so much hate, so much judgment, so much vitriol. The world isn't seeing hate until they, you know,

00:30:51.260 see what Megan Basham says and Katie Faust says, the tweets that I just read you. Which, of course,

00:30:57.700 are not actually hateful. They're not judgmental. They are doing what Christians are called to do,

00:31:02.100 and that is agreeing with God. That is calling what God says is good, good, and calling what God

00:31:06.360 says is bad, bad, which apparently Chip and Joanna don't believe in doing, at least right here in this

00:31:11.640 context, just to give them, you know, try to give them the benefit of the doubt. So Joel, in response

00:31:16.140 to that, says, You'll see no hate from me. I'm just sad. I can't let my kids watch your show now,

00:31:20.260 since I'm trying to protect their eyes and hearts from the lies of the world. Why is you are now

00:31:23.040 participating in? Also, filter out some of the online vitriol and consider taking to heart some

00:31:27.540 of the substantive concerns and heartbreak from the Christians who make up your fan base. We should 1.00

00:31:31.840 love the sinner. That doesn't mean we celebrate and promote the sin and participate in the multi-billion

00:31:35.460 dollar industry dedicated to destroying the family. Chip Gaines very flippantly says, and he could,

00:31:41.560 by the way, not respond at all. I think that would be fine. But he says, Don't be sad, Joel. Plenty of

00:31:47.060 other stuff out there. I'm sure everyone will be fine. But I sincerely appreciate the advice about

00:31:52.280 taking some of the thoughtful, encouraging, constructive criticism to heart. Okay. And

00:31:57.440 Megan Basham, I don't have it in front of me, but I just remember she responded like,

00:32:01.020 we're not sad because we have one less show to watch. We're sad because you are promoting something

00:32:07.340 that God says eats the body and soul, consumes it, destroys it. And that is sad. And people have

00:32:15.260 a reason to be disappointed about that. And the flippancy and the callousness and the condescension

00:32:21.660 in the responses is a really bad indicator. Brittany says, I was at Baylor at the same

00:32:28.600 time as Chip. I sat under Siebert's teaching. That is their pastor, I think, at Antioch Church

00:32:33.100 in Waco. This is so surprising and disappointing. If they're still at the church, I would expect

00:32:36.900 Siebert to address it. Chip said, did we meet? There's so much going on, stuff that really matters.

00:32:41.320 Don't be too disappointed over this, Brittany, he puts in scare quotes. TV shows will come and go,

00:32:46.100 you know. I know that he's trying to trivialize this. It probably makes him feel a little bit

00:32:50.500 better. And I'm sure that Chip and Joanna have people in their lives who are making them feel

00:32:56.340 really good and making them feel like, don't listen to those backwards hillbillies, you know, 0.99

00:33:02.300 the kind of people that occupy places like Waco and the rest of Texas. Don't listen to those

00:33:08.180 extremists, those radical people. That's not Jesus. That's not love. Jesus never talked about this.

00:33:14.460 We're just supposed to love people. That's all you're doing. Never apologize for being radically

00:33:18.780 empathetic and inclusive and loving. That is exactly like you've shown God to me. I know they

00:33:24.280 have people in their life who are telling them that, who are making them feel completely callous

00:33:28.020 to conviction. That is such a dangerous place to be. It's such a dangerous place to be. All of us

00:33:33.360 have been in a place where the affirmation of the world is so appealing and it is so attractive.

00:33:39.860 And because we want to feel good about our sin and we want to justify our rebellion,

00:33:44.460 we take on the opinions of those who will affirm our sin and who will even make our sins sound

00:33:52.420 righteous and make our sins sound godly and loving. Oh my goodness. That is so seductive.

00:33:58.160 It is so tempting for anyone. And yet that path not only leads us in a hellacious direction,

00:34:08.200 it leads others to hell. John Root said on Acts,

00:34:12.500 why are you promoting homosexuality as a Christian? Why compromise on the Bible's clear teachings on

00:34:16.440 this? Why support homosexuals buying kids? Disappointed would be an understatement. 1.00

00:34:21.220 Chip Gaines then quotes the verse from John Root's bio, which is 1 Peter 3.15,

00:34:28.240 but in your hearts, revere Christ as Lord. It goes on to say, do this with gentleness and respect.

00:34:35.540 And John Root said, it's my favorite verse. You're trying to use it against me. Chip Gaines said,

00:34:39.340 I didn't try to use it against you. I did use it against you. It's pretty weird to have a life

00:34:42.740 verse that has specific messaging and instruction that you don't even come close to applying. How

00:34:46.960 did he not come close to applying it? I didn't see him being disrespectful. I didn't see him lacking

00:34:52.260 gentleness. He asked some very important questions that any Christian should want to wrestle with. 0.80

00:34:59.520 And again, he could have just not responded to any of these things, but he chose to respond very

00:35:07.120 specifically, very directly, and very condescendingly. All right. We've got more on

00:35:16.060 this and who they are and kind of their background, because I know a lot of you are thinking this

00:35:19.840 shouldn't be a surprise. They've compromised for a long time. This is who they are. And I would say

00:35:26.100 like, yes and no to that. We have seen some signs. I've talked about it on this show.

00:35:31.280 But I also think that there is a reason for people to kind of be shocked by this and to have

00:35:36.380 their disappointment be like fresh or be renewed at least. But let me pause and tell you about our

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00:36:53.340 Okay. As I said earlier, Magnolia has partnered with Target for a long time since 2017. And it was

00:36:59.660 really like the perfect partnership at first because, again, Target is buoyed by a ton of

00:37:06.000 Christian and conservative women. And that's what I've been saying for the past few years when they

00:37:10.620 were pushing so hard this radical pride stuff. And they've backed off so much in the past couple of

00:37:17.560 years, which I'm so grateful for. I think largely because you decided that you were going to take

00:37:22.640 your money elsewhere, at least for the month of June, while they were pushing the most radical and

00:37:27.020 extremist stuff. And I think they realized, okay, that's not where the country is. That's not where

00:37:31.420 our customers are. And then, of course, when Trump won the election, that was an even further indicator

00:37:36.220 of, okay, yeah, maybe we pushed a little bit too hard. But let us just walk down memory lane for a

00:37:42.600 second and look at what Target was promoting in the summer of 2023 and then how it is relevant to

00:37:49.380 Chip and Joanna Gaines. So back in 2023, Target was selling pride swimsuits that were tuck-friendly.

00:37:59.460 Now, these seem to be targeted towards adolescents, but maybe you could say they're for adults. It

00:38:05.220 doesn't matter. So tuck-friendly, if we want to get a little bit graphic, that's for men who want to

00:38:10.700 identify or appear as women. And so they've got to tuck their anatomy away to try to look more 0.99

00:38:17.320 female. So this is what Target was selling in their stores prominently just two years ago.

00:38:24.240 They were also selling compression tops, which are really tight sports bras for women who are trying

00:38:30.720 to identify as the opposite sex. Again, it's kind of difficult to know is this targeted towards

00:38:35.880 adolescents or not because it's all kind of like rainbow and, you know, like the trans flag is baby

00:38:41.940 colors. And so I think actually the obscuring of those lines is purposeful when it comes to this kind

00:38:49.540 of activist. But there are actually serious health problems that come with compressing your breasts, 1.00

00:38:57.900 especially as an adolescent. And Target was selling this. Target was selling trans flags.

00:39:06.380 They partnered with a brand called Abprelin UK. And we talked about this at the time,

00:39:15.540 selling, you know, trans flags on fanny packs and t-shirts. And this person also had blatantly

00:39:22.540 Satan-worshipping products. Not that they were selling at Target, but that they were selling

00:39:27.900 elsewhere. And Target, of course, knew that and still partnered with them. All kinds of bathing suits

00:39:34.380 and underwear and pro-trans t-shirts. And they got huge backlash for this. And at the time,

00:39:43.880 I did an episode asking why Chip and Joanna Gaines hadn't spoken about it. They have such a prominent

00:39:49.200 partnership with Target. And I said, and I still believe that public figures do not have the

00:39:54.320 responsibility to comment on everything. I don't think Chip and Joanna Gaines are responsible for

00:40:00.160 what Target puts out. I don't think they were a part of that collaboration. I don't think they

00:40:03.980 advised on it. I don't even think they said, yeah, Target, you go. I don't know. Maybe I'm giving

00:40:08.600 too much of the benefit of the doubt there. But the reason I think that they had the

00:40:13.640 responsibility to say something about it is because they had not been silent about other

00:40:18.400 cultural issues that they had cared about. In 2020, Joanna Gaines posted the Black 0.99

00:40:23.520 Square, saying that she was committed to listening and learning. They did Uncomfortable

00:40:28.580 Conversations with a Black Man, which was a series by Emmanuel Ako. That series pushed the

00:40:34.720 lies of systemic racism, of critical race theory, of white fragility, and white privilege over and

00:40:41.600 over again. He also has pushed the lie of being a reasonable pro-abortion or pro-choice person

00:40:49.440 as a Christian. So just, again, progressive slop and nonsense that is covered with Christian-sounding 0.99

00:40:57.480 language. And so they participated in that. There were several articles that reported, including

00:41:05.420 at the Today Show website, today.com, where in 2021, Chip and Joanna said, you know, the

00:41:12.020 thing that really keeps them up at night, Joanna said specifically, what eats my lunch is people

00:41:16.840 thinking that, you know, we don't like LGBTQ people or that we're racist. That is so far

00:41:22.300 from who we are. And of course, no Christian wants to be seen as that. I'm not saying that

00:41:27.840 they should want to be seen as hateful. I understand why that bothers them. But what I am saying is that

00:41:32.880 they really care what the world thinks about them in this way, at least, at least according

00:41:38.040 to their own words, they seem to care about that. They've spoken up about issues that they

00:41:42.900 see as justice issues, as they see as affecting negatively the, like a marginalized population.

00:41:51.720 And yet they were not willing to speak up publicly for the pushing of an ideology that is literally

00:41:58.840 butchering the bodies of gender confused children and permanently sterilizing them. 0.95

00:42:05.820 Sexualizing children who say that they're confused about their gender. I mean, they were partnering

00:42:10.820 with the prominent entity doing that. And they didn't speak up about that. But they did speak up

00:42:16.460 about the nebulous concept of racism possibly causing George Floyd's death. And I just think that's an

00:42:23.860 interesting choice. Like if you're going to speak into the culture war, it seems like speaking into

00:42:30.080 the gender nonsense that again is mutilating children's bodies and damaging their minds and 1.00

00:42:36.340 souls. Like it seems like that would be a good one to speak up about, especially when that battle

00:42:43.440 was raging, but they chose not to. There are also people around them that are very pro-LGBTQ.

00:42:53.860 that they've worked with in the past. And this is all public, by the way, Clint Harp that they've

00:42:59.240 worked with for a long time. Very outspoken Kamala Harris, Biden supporter. And then you also have

00:43:07.760 this person that they used to work with. His name is Billy Jack Bronner. And he actually, I have no idea

00:43:14.960 who this person is. I don't think I've ever interacted with him, did not know who he was, but he apparently

00:43:19.740 blocked me on Instagram. And we don't have to get into like his entire story. I just think that this

00:43:26.280 particular post is very telling. And I had someone verify that this is actually a comment by Joanna

00:43:32.180 Gaines, that this is real. So he posted, you know, he was married to a woman, had several children with

00:43:39.540 her, and now he has come out as gay and is in love with a man. And he has a caption on Instagram from

00:43:46.780 2021 explaining this. He said, I'm learning. I was a gay little boy who grew up hating myself. I'm a gay

00:43:52.880 man who is learning to love myself. I am so good. I'm raising babies who are so good. My best friend

00:43:58.780 on the planet who is so good. I'm in love with a man who is so good. My life is so good. And Joanna

00:44:04.140 Gaines commented, yes, you are so good. We love you. So I just think that that's probably a good

00:44:11.740 indicator of where their heart is and where their mind is when it comes to the LGBTQ issue.

00:44:19.120 They are going to, when it comes to their public statements, at least recently in the past few

00:44:26.460 years, they are going to lean left. They simply are. At least that's what it seems. They are going to

00:44:33.420 lean secular. There are a few other connections that they have. People that they are friends with who

00:44:40.880 are very outspoken about being pro-transgenderism. For example, one half of the Johnny Swim duo that

00:44:49.700 they are really good friends with, Amanda Sudano, has recorded a song promoting transgenderism.

00:44:56.460 That doesn't, that alone, that connection does not mean that Chip and Joanna Gaines are pro-transgenderism.

00:45:02.080 But again, I think they're all pretty good indicators of where they stand on this. So maybe you love that.

00:45:08.520 Maybe you love where they stand on all of that. And maybe you are right there with them. And maybe

00:45:14.520 that's what you want to promote and what you think needs to be glorified and celebrated and normalized.

00:45:20.120 And you are totally free. Like there is a market for you. You will get the kind of content that

00:45:26.020 you're looking for. And if you are someone who is in the content creating space, there is a lot of

00:45:30.680 money there. You will get the accolades. You will get the mainstream support. And you might even tell

00:45:35.800 yourself if you're a Christian, the more mainstream you are, the more opportunity you have to share the

00:45:40.580 gospel with people. And you might even see that God is giving you these partnerships with all of these

00:45:47.100 entities and giving you money and giving you fame because he is approving of what you do. And he is approving

00:45:56.640 of the choices you make. And that is a very, very dangerous place to be. You can do that. You have the

00:46:03.840 freedom to do that. That is not the space that Christians occupy, however. That is not the thinking

00:46:10.640 that people who love Jesus have. You can think that way. You can completely disagree with me. And

00:46:17.660 you can, as Chip Gaines does, define judgment and define hate exactly like the world does. And you can

00:46:24.380 believe, like so many do, that you are nicer than God. That you have found a way to out-compassion God,

00:46:31.800 to out-empathy God, to out-inclusion God, and to out-love God. You can believe that. Just know that

00:46:40.040 in believing that, you've exchanged the God of Scripture for the God of self because you think

00:46:44.940 that you are better and wiser than God is. That what God calls sin, the things he says is sin,

00:46:53.440 that's just too mean. And God didn't really know what he was talking about when he said that.

00:46:58.640 And so let's just ignore those parts. Let's use our own strategy to try to maybe evangelize to

00:47:04.720 people and love people. And let's see how that works. You can do that. I don't think it's going

00:47:11.200 to lead you in the right direction. So I'll end on what the Bible has to say about all of this in just

00:47:17.480 a second. Let me pause and tell you about our last sponsor for the day. And that is CrowdHealth.

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00:47:47.020 It can be so expensive. It can feel like you don't have insurance even when you do.

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00:48:58.660 Sadly, it seems it appears this way based on his public statements. And I would have maybe been

00:49:11.940 willing to give more of the BOD had it not been for his doubling down and his condescension. But it

00:49:17.180 seems that Chip Gaines has bought into the lie that condemning sin is mean and that agreeing with God

00:49:27.200 is judgmental and hateful. And that to me reveals that he is not defining judgment and hate the way

00:49:36.240 that God defines these things, but he is judging them. He is defining them how the world defines these

00:49:44.500 things. And here was my response to Chip Gaines on X. Chip, you can't outlove God. God is love,

00:49:55.140 which means two things. One, he gets to define it. Two, everything he says and does, he says and does

00:50:00.920 in love. And 1 Corinthians 13, 6, this God who is love, who defines love, tells us what love looks

00:50:09.080 like. And he says that love, among other things, never rejoices in wrongdoing, but rejoices with the

00:50:16.300 truth. By choosing this, you are rejoicing in wrongdoing and rejecting the truth. By choosing

00:50:24.320 to glorify that which God calls sin, a disordered desire that hurts the body and soul of those who

00:50:30.340 are ruled by it. Romans 1, 26 through 32. Thus, you are neither loving God nor loving people by this

00:50:37.760 decision. If God is love, then in love, he created marriage as exclusively between one man and one woman.

00:50:44.160 This is the only kind of marriage God calls good. Jesus affirms this in Matthew 19, 4 through 5.

00:50:51.520 Every kind of sexuality outside of this union, he calls sin. Sin hurts people and it angers the God

00:50:59.880 you say you serve. The least loving thing possible is to normalize it. Remember, the most loving thing

00:51:08.700 we can do in every situation is agree with God. Disagreeing with God is no small deal. Encouraging

00:51:19.300 others to disagree with God is an even bigger deal. I seem to remember something about a millstone.

00:51:29.400 Something to keep in mind. And of course, I am referencing Matthew 18, 6 through 7, where Jesus says,

00:51:38.700 but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, and many scholars believe

00:51:44.340 that he's actually not talking specifically about children, but he's talking about his followers,

00:51:48.860 it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the

00:51:55.400 depth of the sea. Wow, that sounds terrible. We're not supposed to be seeking accolades and affirmation

00:52:04.900 from the world. In fact, James 4, 4 says, you adulterous people, do you not know that friendship

00:52:10.640 with the world is enmity with God? Therefore, whoever wishes to be a friend of the world

00:52:16.400 makes himself an enemy of God. And wow, I just want you to know that as I'm reading these scriptures,

00:52:23.620 I'm not just thinking, wow, all those bad people out there. No, the word of God convicts me and may

00:52:29.260 it always convicts me. And may it shoot me all the way to the heart so that I read these verses too

00:52:36.640 and am reminded that friendship with the world is enmity with God. But I think the more money you have,

00:52:43.780 the more difficult it is to remember this. I think that's why we read that it is actually easier

00:52:51.000 for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, think about that, than it is for a rich man to enter

00:52:56.520 the kingdom of heaven. But remember, the verse after that says, but with God, all things are

00:53:00.720 possible. So it's not impossible, but you could see how it's difficult, right? Mark 8, 36 says,

00:53:07.600 for what does it profit a man to gain the whole world? To gain all the money, all the success,

00:53:12.980 all the fame, all the inroads into the mainstream, all the affirmation from celebrities and forfeit his

00:53:19.540 soul. First Timothy 6, 10, for the love of money. This could be true for a rich or a poor person,

00:53:27.100 by the way, for the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that

00:53:32.480 some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs. This is an important

00:53:40.860 verse. John 15, 18. Okay. This is again, for all of us, for all of us to remember. If the world hates

00:53:49.740 you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. That's what Jesus says. That's what we can expect.

00:53:58.100 We can expect to be called names. We can expect to be misunderstood. We can expect to be labeled a

00:54:06.240 bigot or hateful or judgmental because we say that God's way is better. Remember, the most

00:54:13.580 controversial verse in the Bible, I think, is Genesis 1, 1. In the beginning, God created the

00:54:19.300 heavens and the earth. Because if he is the creator over all of it, then he is the authority over all

00:54:23.960 of it. If he is the authority over all of it, then he and he alone gets to say what is and what isn't,

00:54:29.220 what's right and what's wrong, what's good and what's bad, what a marriage is and what it's not.

00:54:34.760 If we believe that God is the creator, if we believe that he is the authority, if we believe

00:54:42.360 that he is who he says he is, if he really is the alpha and the omega, if he really is love,

00:54:50.200 as 1 John 4, 8 says, then the only thing that we can do as people who say that we love him and serve

00:54:57.700 him is obey and agree with him. Yes, even at great cost, even when Chip Gaines calls you,

00:55:04.740 hateful. That's part of what it takes. And you know what? It's a pretty low cost here in the

00:55:12.940 United States in 2025. Not a low cost for everyone. I just want to acknowledge there's a lot of

00:55:18.380 Christians out there who have sacrificed a lot employment, money, fame, relationships for standing

00:55:23.760 strong in your faith, even on these controversial issues. But let's be real. If Chip and Joanna Gaines

00:55:30.020 decided that they were going to, say, go the way of Phil Robertson and Duck Dynasty and say,

00:55:35.280 you know what? I'm not going to affirm homosexuality. I'm not going to stop talking

00:55:38.420 about these things. You can stick it where the sun don't shine. They would be fine. They'd be fine.

00:55:44.800 They'd be giving up very, very little, actually. And they would be actually probably gaining the respect

00:55:51.080 of a lot of people and giving their courage to a lot of people by standing strong and giving up

00:55:57.940 money and affirmation and acceptance, even when it's really hard. So let's be honest about that.

00:56:05.760 We're talking about the first chapter of the first book of the Bible, okay?

00:56:09.320 Not even getting 30 verses into Scripture before God tells us what marriage is.

00:56:13.060 And what is it rooted in creation? Reiterated throughout Scripture, honor your father and

00:56:19.040 mother, repeated by Jesus himself, Matthew 19, 4 through 5, representative of Christ and the

00:56:24.360 church, Ephesians 5, and therefore reflective of the gospel. That is why when people start denying

00:56:30.380 Genesis 127 and the importance of Genesis 127, they eventually deny John 14, 6, that Jesus is the

00:56:37.600 only way, truth, and life, and that no one comes to the Father except through him, because marriage is

00:56:42.400 a physical, earthly representation of a spiritual, eternal reality that is seen in the gospel itself.

00:56:49.940 The Bible starts with a marriage and ends with a marriage. It's not just a couple verses in

00:56:53.520 Leviticus. And by the way, even if it were all of the Bible is God's word, whatever God says,

00:57:02.060 Jesus is saying also because they're three in one. So again, I just don't see any justification for

00:57:09.660 this. I don't. Like, I really thought about, because I saw people defending them, people I

00:57:15.180 respect defending them, who know them. And I'm like, okay, I'm really trying to see that. I really

00:57:21.400 am. And if you think I'm wrong, if you think that there is some glaring thing that I'm just not

00:57:26.160 seeing here that, like, someone handcuffed them and was like, you will be gay on this show, or else,

00:57:32.680 like, I don't know, we're going to do something really bad. Like, okay, if they were held hostage,

00:57:38.400 then maybe. But other, I mean, still, I don't see it. So tell me, if I'm being blinded to something,

00:57:46.820 if you think I'm being overly critical, then tell me, but seems like voluntarily promoting,

00:57:53.480 celebrating what God says will kill the body and soul. And wow, I just can't imagine loving God and

00:58:00.100 loving people and doing that for money. Seems inexcusable. All right, let me pause,

00:58:06.900 tell you about our next sponsor. It's Range Leather. Y'all, I love all of my products from

00:58:11.240 Range Leather. I've got a bag, we've got wallets, we've got hats, we've got earrings, belts, so much

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00:58:23.340 a unique gift that is really going to mean something to them and last forever,

00:58:28.000 and support a Christian family-owned company that makes everything in the U.S. really a win all

00:58:33.540 around, then you've got to go to RangeLeather.com. Awesome part is also, if you go to RangeLeather.com

00:58:38.900 slash Allie, you'll get 15% off your order. I mean, their custom hats, they're just amazing. I mean,

00:58:46.240 talk about high-quality handcrafted stuff. Go to RangeLeather.com slash Allie for that discount.

00:58:52.300 That's RangeLeather.com slash Allie. Okay, one final thing I just wanted to say, and maybe we'll

00:59:03.260 have time to talk about it a little bit more on Wednesday, but I just wanted to ask you to please

00:59:07.660 pray for John MacArthur and pray for his wife and pray for his church family, pray for his children,

00:59:13.740 grandchildren, and I believe great-grandchildren as well. Via the Christian Post, John MacArthur,

00:59:18.680 the 86-year-old longtime California pastor and broadcaster, has been admitted to the hospital

00:59:23.460 with pneumonia. The announcement was made during Sunday worship with a church leader telling the

00:59:28.200 congregation he may be in the presence of the Lord soon. So he apparently is not expected to

00:59:36.740 recover. He has had health issues for the past few years, but man, he has—I'm going to try not to

00:59:44.060 tear up. He has run this race. My goodness. He has been so faithful, so faithful to his church that

00:59:52.020 he has been pastoring since, I believe, 1969, faithful to his wife, and faithful to the ministry

00:59:58.740 that the Lord has called him to, and just completely unapologetic and unwavering and standing upon what

01:00:04.520 the Word of God says about every single issue and talk about someone who does not care about friendship

01:00:11.080 with the world. He doesn't care about friendship with the world. You know, Paul says in Philippians

01:00:16.320 1 that to live is Christ and to die is gain. When he dies, it will be his gain. It will feel like

01:00:21.580 our loss. It will feel very tangibly like his family's loss, but he will be exactly where he

01:00:27.960 wants to go. Now, the Lord can also heal him physically, and we could have 10 more years with

01:00:33.380 him, and I pray that, and I would love that, but I pray more that God would be glorified,

01:00:38.260 that he would have peace in his body, in his mind, in his soul, that his family would have the peace

01:00:43.440 that passes all understanding, that his legacy would continue to glorify God forever and ever.

01:00:50.300 So just keep them in mind. Keep their church in mind and the ministries in mind as they possibly

01:00:56.660 go through a really difficult transition. All right, that's all we've got time for today. We will be back

01:01:01.680 here on Wednesday.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - July 14, 2025

Ep 1217 ｜ Chip & Joanna Gaines Go All In on Gay Marriage

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