Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - July 18, 2025


Ep 1219 ｜ After 77 Years, In-N-Out Offices Are Moving to Tennessee. Here's Why ｜ Lynsi Snyder


Episode Stats


Length

1 hour and 8 minutes

Words per minute

161.65771

Word count

11,147

Sentence count

875

Harmful content

Misogyny

11

sentences flagged

Hate speech

5

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Lindsay Snyder is the President of In-N-Out and the granddaughter of the founders of the fast food chain. She has an incredible testimony and is so passionate about serving God and glorifying Him in everything she and the company do. We are going to talk about her bravery as a leader of the company and what the company s plans are for expanding beyond the west and into the central part of the United States.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.880 Lindsay Snyder is the president of In-N-Out.
00:00:03.940 She is the granddaughter of the founders of the fast food chain.
00:00:08.760 She has an incredible testimony and is so passionate about serving God and glorifying
00:00:15.020 Him in everything she and the company does.
00:00:18.220 We are going to talk about her bravery as a leader of the company and what the company's
00:00:25.020 plans are for expanding beyond the West and the central part of the United States.
00:00:32.140 I think that you are going to love hearing what the Lord has done in her life and how
00:00:37.640 the Lord is working through this amazing company.
00:00:41.860 This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers.
00:00:44.820 Go to goodranchers.com.
00:00:46.460 Use code Allie at checkout. 1.00
00:00:47.780 That's goodranchers.com, code Allie.
00:00:55.020 Okay, before we get into that conversation, just a reminder to my relatable audience,
00:01:04.520 if you will please take part in this survey that we have put together to get to know you
00:01:09.380 even better, to know what you want, what you're looking for, who you are, what your beliefs
00:01:14.240 are.
00:01:14.500 It just helps us tailor this show in a way that adds the most value possible to your lives.
00:01:19.920 I'm very thankful for all of you and I want to continue making this show as good as it
00:01:25.000 can possibly be.
00:01:26.560 We will link the survey in the description of this episode wherever you are watching
00:01:30.700 or viewing.
00:01:31.760 Thank you so much.
00:01:32.800 All right.
00:01:33.340 Without further ado, here is our guest.
00:01:40.460 Lindsay, thanks so much for joining me or for hosting me in your amazing office.
00:01:44.980 This is incredible.
00:01:46.060 Oh, thank you.
00:01:46.880 Thank you for doing this.
00:01:48.060 Okay.
00:01:48.300 Can I first talk about your outfit, which I'm obsessed with?
00:01:51.400 And I want to know if this is your, is this your daily work uniform?
00:01:55.300 Basically.
00:01:55.780 I mean, I don't have a uniform, but this is kind of my style, which I'd say doesn't stick
00:02:01.380 to one.
00:02:02.240 Yeah.
00:02:03.060 But yeah.
00:02:04.340 Is it usually In-N-Out themed?
00:02:06.200 No.
00:02:06.820 No.
00:02:07.100 I did that for you.
00:02:07.900 Oh, you did that for me?
00:02:09.140 I'm honored because I don't know if everyone can see that you have hamburgers on your socks
00:02:14.060 and are these specific In-N-Out hamburgers?
00:02:16.460 Yes.
00:02:16.800 Not just any like generic hamburger.
00:02:19.520 Oh, I love that so much.
00:02:21.240 Okay.
00:02:21.660 There are so many things that I want to ask you and so many people listening, watching
00:02:25.380 already know a lot about your story.
00:02:27.800 Some people don't at all.
00:02:29.740 So take us back to the beginning.
00:02:32.020 What was it like growing up in this dynasty, in this business of In-N-Out?
00:02:36.820 Well, you know, some of my earliest memories being exposed to In-N-Out were in this office.
00:02:42.740 This was my uncle's office.
00:02:44.500 And, you know, for me, he was just this magical uncle.
00:02:52.440 Yeah.
00:02:52.620 He had a larger than life personality and just seemed to make things happen.
00:02:56.720 And we always had fun together.
00:02:57.960 Um, and my dad, um, was the two of them were both just like big kids.
00:03:06.660 Yeah.
00:03:06.940 Like you could tell there were things from their childhood that they didn't have.
00:03:11.060 And so they were trying to still make some of those childhood dreams come true.
00:03:17.120 And they lived through me by like giving me some of those things and spoiling me.
00:03:21.020 So, um.
00:03:21.960 Do you remember anything specifically, like any kind of adventure or treat?
00:03:26.080 Yeah, my uncle took me to Disneyland a lot and he loved that.
00:03:32.320 He was like a big kid.
00:03:33.980 And, um, they would buy me like, um, something with wheels or a motor just about every Christmas.
00:03:42.180 And they were both like there.
00:03:43.640 They couldn't wait to give it to me.
00:03:45.480 So when I saw the old family videos, they were just like, what do you think?
00:03:51.240 You know?
00:03:51.660 It's like they were getting the gift themselves.
00:03:53.720 Yes.
00:03:54.260 Yes.
00:03:54.580 So, um.
00:03:56.140 Okay.
00:03:56.560 Do you think that is why?
00:03:58.120 Did that lay the groundwork?
00:03:59.480 Because you, you like drag racing, right?
00:04:02.340 So is that the beginning of that, do you think?
00:04:05.000 The gifts that they got you early on?
00:04:07.680 My dad, uh, drag raced.
00:04:09.280 So I was there at the track as a little girl and, you know, just thought it was super cool
00:04:14.200 and loved watching him and just being around all of that, the culture of the cars.
00:04:18.940 So, um, so yeah, I think, you know, they both, my uncle and my dad loved classic cars and American muscle cars.
00:04:27.800 So, um, that was just something I was raised around and, and grew very fond of.
00:04:34.480 Yeah.
00:04:34.580 Um, but for me, you know, as a kid, I didn't really understand the magnitude of, you know, the business or anything like that.
00:04:45.000 And of course, we were much smaller then, but still.
00:04:46.860 Yeah.
00:04:47.000 Um, it was just the people for me, you know, and, um, there's people that still work for In-N-Out, you know, today that were around when I was a kid.
00:04:58.120 Wow.
00:04:58.660 Um, and so it is like a big family.
00:05:00.860 Yeah.
00:05:01.560 Yeah.
00:05:02.040 But I.
00:05:02.900 How did that, like, you say that they're fun loving, but they're basically like big kids.
00:05:08.540 How did that shape the culture at In-N-Out when they were leading the way?
00:05:14.280 Because obviously they were very smart businessmen as well, very serious about the business, but then they had this super adventurous, fun loving side.
00:05:21.920 So what did that look like at the company?
00:05:24.220 I think, you know, a lot of people that work in In-N-Out say it's not like a job.
00:05:28.780 They say, I love what I do.
00:05:30.080 I have fun with the people that I'm with.
00:05:32.400 And, you know, some of my fondest memories were the days I worked in the stores with people because it was just like this team.
00:05:37.840 It was like, okay, we're going to do this.
00:05:39.080 So there's a rush.
00:05:39.760 We're going to do this together.
00:05:40.900 And you're smiling and you're just, I don't know.
00:05:43.540 It's a really special thing.
00:05:47.740 And I think them having the personalities that they did helped create that atmosphere here where people are, you know, you can have fun working.
00:05:59.620 And, you know, we say that the smile is part of your uniform here at In-N-Out.
00:06:04.620 So, you know, we know with psychology, you know, the power of a smile in a room, it's contagious.
00:06:14.680 Yeah.
00:06:15.320 And you mentioned a lot of the things that they wanted to give you and fill your life with, they didn't really have growing up.
00:06:23.740 So what was their upbringing like?
00:06:26.200 Obviously, their parents founded In-N-Out, but it was very different when it was first starting, I'm sure.
00:06:31.480 Yeah.
00:06:31.820 Yeah.
00:06:32.080 They were poor, for sure.
00:06:35.780 And, you know, my grandpa came from very humble beginnings.
00:06:40.900 And his father couldn't keep a job.
00:06:45.120 He was moving from one job to another.
00:06:47.040 And, you know, I think he really projected that you're not going to amount to anything type of you own my grandfather.
00:06:56.300 And my grandfather really, you know, broke through that.
00:06:59.540 So his success wasn't just founding In-N-Out, but really breaking that cycle.
00:07:08.240 And, you know, he was severely abused by his father.
00:07:12.440 And then my grandpa even abused my dad and my uncle.
00:07:17.700 I don't think it wasn't at the same level, but it was definitely child abuse.
00:07:22.040 So, you know, it's just tough.
00:07:25.620 I think, you know, my dad and my uncle were maybe neglected a little bit.
00:07:30.320 They loved their dad.
00:07:31.240 They looked up to him, but he was a workaholic.
00:07:33.300 You know, he was doing this, you know, the work, laying all the foundation for where we are now here at In-N-Out.
00:07:40.180 And, you know, my grandmother was very sweet and soft-spoken, and she had her faith.
00:07:47.200 But, you know, I think they loved her to pieces.
00:07:54.760 And I think they wanted – my dad really wanted his dad's acceptance, and I don't think he ever felt that.
00:08:00.720 So the combination of them not having things, having a dad that was, you know, pretty hard on them and all that.
00:08:08.500 You know, I think they loved having that healthy family life when I was born and having my mom.
00:08:16.420 And my uncle didn't have any kids, so I was basically like this.
00:08:19.880 Yeah.
00:08:20.520 Yeah.
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00:09:36.080 Were you ever intimidated by the prospect of leading the company, even though you'd been around it forever?
00:09:50.180 I mean, it's huge.
00:09:53.080 I don't think I was intimidated because it was, because of the process.
00:09:57.700 You know, I was working for the company when I was 17.
00:10:00.680 I was down here, I moved down here when I was 18, worked for my grandma actually doing donations.
00:10:08.580 And I would call to ask for donations for, you know, one of our events.
00:10:14.160 And so there was just a very natural development of then I managed the company store with all of our merchandise for a couple of years.
00:10:25.760 And that was great.
00:10:26.520 That was like a little business within the big business.
00:10:28.560 Um, and then started going to the operation meetings, VP meetings, was helping make big decisions.
00:10:36.600 So it was very, like, gradual, you know.
00:10:39.680 Um, so I'd say the moments where I felt like I had to really speak up or, you know, um, push to be heard would be in the VP meetings back in the day.
00:10:52.500 And that's something where, um, they spun that in an interview.
00:10:58.660 Um, and I was so upset because they used it in the wrong context.
00:11:02.480 But the context was I was a young girl.
00:11:06.540 Yeah.
00:11:07.020 Sitting in a room with older business corporate looking men.
00:11:11.320 Yeah.
00:11:11.560 So I did not really fit in that room in a lot of ways.
00:11:15.500 And so when I had a disagreement, um, with them, which was usually about raising prices, yes.
00:11:23.860 Um, I would get a little feisty.
00:11:27.780 And so.
00:11:28.480 Yeah.
00:11:28.840 You know.
00:11:29.960 I guess it paid off.
00:11:31.380 I guess the feistiness worked out though.
00:11:33.260 Yeah.
00:11:33.440 Okay, so you have added two Bible verses to the packaging since you have been president, right?
00:11:42.560 There's actually more.
00:11:44.340 Okay.
00:11:44.660 Um, so we added it to the bottom of the fry boat, the water cup, the coffee, the hot cocoa.
00:11:52.480 And they're all different.
00:11:53.900 Yeah.
00:11:54.280 Right?
00:11:54.800 We, I know Proverbs 24, 16, Luke 6, 35.
00:11:58.540 Do you know off the top of your head what the other ones are?
00:12:00.920 I don't have them written down.
00:12:01.680 Um, the water cup is, ooh, I'm trying to think of the reference.
00:12:06.240 It's the one about, um, giving a cup to even one of these, you know.
00:12:10.640 Yeah.
00:12:11.740 Uh, the hot cocoa is John 13, 34.
00:12:16.300 Uh, love one another.
00:12:18.840 Coffee cups is, oh, Luke 6, 35, one of my favorites about loving your enemies.
00:12:24.740 Mm-hmm.
00:12:25.660 Um, oh, and then our holiday beverage cups.
00:12:28.040 So that's the little Christmas looking cups.
00:12:29.840 Um, Isaiah 9, 6, about Jesus being born, the prophecy of Jesus.
00:12:35.520 Um, and then our other little water cups, our nines are Isaiah 53, prophecy of Jesus again.
00:12:44.360 Um, yeah.
00:12:48.120 So we added a handful.
00:12:49.540 Yeah.
00:12:49.640 And there's some products.
00:12:50.780 There's some other things that we added them to.
00:12:52.440 We just kind of snuck them in there.
00:12:53.920 Have you ever had people, like, upset by the Bible verses?
00:12:57.140 Oh, sure.
00:12:58.040 Really?
00:12:58.440 What do they say?
00:12:59.380 Like, random customers or media or who?
00:13:02.300 Honestly, I don't pay attention to too much of it.
00:13:05.100 Yeah.
00:13:05.240 Like, it's just been, you know, we even had customers upset about, um, our Slave to Nothing, uh, stuff, you know, like having the, the cans or some of the imagery.
00:13:17.520 They're like, I'm coming for a burger.
00:13:19.060 I don't want to hear about human trafficking.
00:13:19.640 But that's your foundation, right?
00:13:21.400 Yes.
00:13:21.960 Yeah.
00:13:22.080 And that has to do with addiction and helping people who have been stuck in that.
00:13:26.880 Both addiction and human trafficking.
00:13:28.740 Yeah.
00:13:28.960 Okay.
00:13:29.060 Right.
00:13:29.620 Yeah.
00:13:29.820 And I wonder why, why would anyone have any kind of issue with that?
00:13:33.480 Well, it's, it is interesting, but I think, you know, if someone's, the Bible verse is something that is, you know, meaningful to my family and our faith.
00:13:48.540 And my uncle was like, this is a declaration, like, we're a family business and this is just part of us, you know?
00:13:54.580 Mm-hmm.
00:13:55.400 And, uh, you know, no one's being forced to, um, you know, hey, now you have to follow the Ten Commandments and then you can have a burger.
00:14:03.460 It's not, you know.
00:14:04.220 Yeah.
00:14:04.820 It's not like that.
00:14:05.880 So, I think that, um, a lot of times there's going to be persecution and that's okay because it's expected, you know?
00:14:14.280 It's laid out in our instruction manual that, you know, it's actually a good sign if you're persecuted.
00:14:20.200 So, you know, people not wanting to hear about fighting addiction or trafficking, you just have to look what's behind it.
00:14:28.240 Yeah.
00:14:28.600 You know?
00:14:29.080 There's a battle.
00:14:30.420 Totally.
00:14:31.000 I love the verse.
00:14:31.800 I think it's in Luke 6 where it says, woe to you when all people speak well of you.
00:14:36.360 Yes.
00:14:36.820 And we all get caught in that.
00:14:38.260 I get caught in that.
00:14:39.000 I want everyone to speak well of me.
00:14:40.720 But Jesus actually says, no, that's bad.
00:14:43.180 That woe to you when everyone has something nice to say to you all of the time or about you all the time.
00:14:49.280 Yeah.
00:14:49.680 That's like such a comfort to me.
00:14:51.600 On the other hand, on the other side of that, have you heard any stories of people who have seen the Bible verse, looked it up, and then started reading the Bible or changed their mind about something or have just been encouraged by it?
00:15:06.020 I've heard a few, yeah.
00:15:07.040 I've heard a few, and I've heard mainly it was like a launching point for a really nice discussion where someone was wanting to witness to someone or wanting to share their faith and different things in that conversation, and they were able to use it.
00:15:23.660 They took them to In-N-Out.
00:15:24.920 Yeah, I love that.
00:15:25.080 And were able to use that as like the opener.
00:15:26.800 I love that.
00:15:28.260 And I mean, you're never going to know until you get to heaven, you know, all of the lives that were touched by the Word of God.
00:15:35.340 And I just love that the Word of God doesn't return void.
00:15:38.180 So the most effective thing that we can always do is share a Bible verse because it's the only infallible, inerrant thing that we can tell someone.
00:15:46.540 Yeah.
00:15:46.780 So you just have no idea.
00:15:47.920 You have no idea like how many people it's affected, I'm sure.
00:15:51.660 And for like those of us who are Christians, seeing something like that, it's like, I don't know, it just feels like solidarity.
00:15:58.560 Like we want to come back and support it.
00:16:01.520 I want to hear more about your grandmother, about Esther.
00:16:05.580 She stayed involved in the day-to-day operations until she died in 2006, I think.
00:16:11.980 Yeah.
00:16:12.140 So what an amazing legacy and an amazing person.
00:16:14.920 And all around this office, you see pictures of her, rooms dedicated to her.
00:16:18.640 So I just want to hear more about her.
00:16:20.580 Yeah, she was precious.
00:16:22.420 She was from Illinois and had one Irish parent and one English.
00:16:30.800 And she actually had a pretty tough story, too.
00:16:36.180 She had quite a few siblings and she was sick as a child and they were worried about her getting the other kids sick.
00:16:43.560 So they took her to her grandparents and they basically never came back for her.
00:16:48.600 Wow.
00:16:48.920 Like she ended up staying with her grandparents and being raised by them.
00:16:53.480 But her grandma was like legally blind. 1.00
00:16:57.260 Oh, gosh.
00:16:57.420 So she had to like push her everywhere and help take care of her. 1.00
00:17:00.960 And I'm sure wondering like why did my parents not choose me and, you know, all my other siblings are together.
00:17:08.600 Yeah.
00:17:08.880 That's hard.
00:17:09.340 So she – I think there was a lot of like self-denial and just kind of survive on my own strength that she had.
00:17:20.480 So she put herself through college.
00:17:22.400 Wow.
00:17:22.520 She joined the waves in the Navy and she was a go-getter for sure. 1.00
00:17:26.760 She was tiny.
00:17:27.520 She was really, really small.
00:17:29.260 Yeah.
00:17:29.540 And there's not too many people that make me feel tall in this world and she was one of them because she was shorter than me.
00:17:34.500 Yes.
00:17:35.000 My grandmother was the same way and she seemed to get smaller and smaller every time I saw her. 0.72
00:17:40.680 I think by the time she died she was like 4'11 or something like that.
00:17:44.160 So, yeah, she always was like – and so, I mean, just so sweet.
00:17:49.020 So much like personality.
00:17:50.480 I love when so much personality is packed into like such a small package and so much strength too.
00:17:55.800 Yeah.
00:17:56.000 And she was, you know, a lot of the brains behind, you know, the operation of, you know, just the book, all the book stuff, the financial stuff.
00:18:06.880 Did she just teach herself that? 1.00
00:18:08.460 Was it just through experience that she learned everything?
00:18:10.640 She went to college, so she had a pretty good education and, you know, she wanted to be a teacher.
00:18:19.400 She did teaching.
00:18:20.860 It was fascinating when I found out she studied zoology.
00:18:25.600 Yeah.
00:18:26.040 So interesting.
00:18:26.540 Because I'm like that makes so much sense because my daughter and I both love animals.
00:18:29.640 Yeah.
00:18:29.940 Love animals.
00:18:31.120 So –
00:18:31.560 She kind of passed it down to you.
00:18:33.460 Yes.
00:18:34.020 Yeah.
00:18:34.660 Okay.
00:18:34.960 The Bible verses on the packaging.
00:18:37.620 When did that start?
00:18:38.400 Um, there's been a lot of debate about this.
00:18:43.000 Okay.
00:18:43.320 So we've gone back and forth.
00:18:44.320 We believe it was somewhere around 88.
00:18:50.240 Yeah.
00:18:51.120 It was just a few years before my uncle passed away, actually.
00:18:55.540 He did that and that was just a thing of, you know, he totally found Jesus and just wanted to have that there.
00:19:05.220 Yeah, I want to hear more about that before we get into your faith journey because you mentioned that your grandfather maybe didn't have as much, like, of an outspoken faith, but your grandmother did.
00:19:18.840 Yeah.
00:19:19.340 And then you just mentioned your uncle.
00:19:21.320 So where did that come from?
00:19:23.620 How did you see that start showing up?
00:19:25.520 Yeah.
00:19:26.160 Um, my grandpa, I don't really know what his parents were like exactly.
00:19:33.060 Um, they did come from the Netherlands and, um, I'm assuming that he grew up on a house without any faith.
00:19:40.540 Um, he did accept the Lord on his deathbed.
00:19:44.080 Thank God.
00:19:45.120 Wow.
00:19:45.680 Praise God.
00:19:46.360 My grandma was raised in the church and, um, she had her faith and, um, yeah, I think that's, that was a lot of her strength and she just had so much love and care for people that I think came from God's love, you know.
00:20:02.840 Um, my dad, um, he really found that, um, I think in marrying my mom.
00:20:12.120 Um, of course he had his mother that modeled it too, but I think when he met my mom and just kind of brought it together for him and, and then my uncle, um, I don't remember how exactly he got connected, but he started going to Chuck Smith's church in Costa Mesa and, um, that was where he just really dedicated his life to the Lord.
00:20:36.200 And, and so, so yeah, they all look a little bit different, but I'm happy to know that they all knew Jesus.
00:20:42.900 Yes.
00:20:44.120 And I'm sure it was a very formative time in your life and you've written about this when your uncle passed, correct?
00:20:50.460 And that was in the nineties?
00:20:51.900 Ninety three.
00:20:52.620 Yeah.
00:20:53.480 And I'm sure you have memories of that.
00:20:55.960 You were still a child at that point, right?
00:20:58.300 I was 11.
00:20:59.320 Yeah.
00:20:59.700 And can you talk about just the effect that that had both on your family and on the company?
00:21:04.660 Yeah.
00:21:04.960 You know, it's, it's really a night that changed our lives.
00:21:11.940 Um, I remember exactly what I was doing.
00:21:16.640 I remember, um, that whole evening really.
00:21:21.120 And, um, for my dad, you know, I look back and see just how terrible it was.
00:21:30.080 You know, he already didn't have, he never got the acceptance from his dad.
00:21:34.660 So he had, he had this childhood pain and trauma then as adult, not having that from his dad.
00:21:41.160 And then his brother was really the only one that knew what it was like, you know, and they
00:21:46.760 weren't on the best terms.
00:21:48.940 So losing him, um, I think just felt like a part of his heart got ripped out.
00:21:56.460 Yeah, of course.
00:21:57.460 Um, so I remember my dad going outside and just yelling his brother's name, like to the sky and, um, yeah.
00:22:08.240 Uh, you know, my dad had been sober and things were pretty, pretty nice.
00:22:13.660 So we were living up in Northern California and, um, and that was just the beginning of
00:22:19.040 things starting to fall apart between, you know, his sobriety, my mom and dad and, uh, my stability,
00:22:26.800 I guess.
00:22:27.500 Right, right.
00:22:29.120 And your dad passed in the late nineties.
00:22:31.560 Yeah.
00:22:31.920 99.
00:22:32.820 And not only did you persevere through all of that because so much to happen at such a
00:22:38.360 young age, so close together, but also in and out persisted through all of that.
00:22:44.660 So before we get to the time where, cause you've talked about, like, I think you called
00:22:49.400 it your black sheep era.
00:22:50.600 So we can talk about the instability that you just referenced, but can you walk us through,
00:22:55.700 like, how did your family carry in and out through such a turbulent time of not even
00:23:02.220 knowing kind of like what the leadership and direction looks like anymore?
00:23:06.000 Yeah, it's, it is pretty crazy because, um, internet has weathered a lot of so much.
00:23:15.220 Yeah.
00:23:15.420 Um, and then there's, yeah, I mean, beating the odds of the third generation thing, you 0.99
00:23:22.340 know, is big too.
00:23:23.060 So it's just, to me, it's very clear the hand of God is on this company.
00:23:26.900 Is that something that people say, like, by the time you get to the third generation,
00:23:30.580 it's just not likely for it to persist after that?
00:23:32.860 Yes.
00:23:33.600 Yes.
00:23:34.080 Because they assume, like, the grandkids just don't feel as connected to the founding mission
00:23:38.300 and, okay.
00:23:39.980 There's probably several factors, but, I mean, I think you can look, look it up and find that
00:23:45.260 it's an overwhelming statistic that it falls apart by that time.
00:23:48.460 So, yeah.
00:23:49.820 Um, we have amazing people here, you know, we've had incredible leaders.
00:23:56.220 And again, the tenure is just, you know, you don't see a lot of places that have so many
00:24:02.800 people stick around for so long.
00:24:04.460 So that's why we say it's an in and out family because, you know, once you're here, a lot
00:24:10.200 of times you're, you're staying till the end.
00:24:12.620 So, um, it's just been a combination of God having his hand on our company and protecting
00:24:22.500 it and guiding it.
00:24:23.740 And also the incredible people that have just come together and rallied and, you know, stepped
00:24:30.500 in when these different, you know, tragedies happened.
00:24:35.080 So.
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00:26:37.720 I want to hear about this season for you personally, because you've written very openly about your
00:26:44.700 past relationships and the difficult time that you went through before you were 35 and
00:26:49.960 you started kind of running the show here.
00:26:51.720 So I want to hear like your personal faith journey from the dark times to the times that
00:26:57.160 things started falling into place.
00:26:58.600 Oh, boy.
00:26:59.780 I know.
00:27:00.240 Big question.
00:27:01.460 Well, how far back?
00:27:04.760 Let's go back to after your dad passed.
00:27:06.620 Okay.
00:27:08.960 After my dad passed, I was in a relationship that started when I was 14.
00:27:16.940 Wow.
00:27:17.760 And I was 17 at the time when my dad died.
00:27:21.740 And so I really knew, like, I felt like God told me, like, this is not right.
00:27:28.420 Like, and I just, oh, yeah, yeah.
00:27:32.180 Yeah.
00:27:32.500 I'll deal with that later.
00:27:33.600 Like, you know, I'll be fine.
00:27:34.640 And it was something that I think I would have, I think I would have called off our engagement
00:27:43.080 had my dad not died.
00:27:45.300 And as soon as he died, it was like, I just latched, I latched on, you know.
00:27:49.600 Um, and I'd say that relationship looked pretty codependent.
00:27:54.320 Mm-hmm.
00:27:54.660 Um, and, you know, it wasn't, um, super healthy.
00:28:00.800 And then he started having all sorts of, um, kind of just breakdowns.
00:28:06.960 And he went on, like, medication and was sharing that he was having, um, you know, just, it's
00:28:19.920 pretty, I mean, how honest do you want me to be on here?
00:28:22.800 It's somewhat kind of graphic.
00:28:23.700 It depends.
00:28:24.800 It's totally up to you, whatever you're comfortable with, because, you know, other people have
00:28:29.660 gone through or will go through similar things.
00:28:31.860 Yeah.
00:28:31.980 And so I think they appreciate the honesty.
00:28:34.740 Yeah.
00:28:34.960 He, um, started having panic attacks and everything because of the guilt and started admitting
00:28:41.300 little by little, oh, yeah, I'm addicted to porn.
00:28:44.420 Yeah.
00:28:44.760 And, um, you know, I've done this thinking about your, this person, that person, that person.
00:28:52.060 And I'm just like, and you're like, what, 18, 19 at this point, how do you even process?
00:28:58.020 And now you're married.
00:28:59.340 So you feel like, oh my goodness, what have I done?
00:29:01.760 Well, it's like, you know, at that point when I told God, like, oh, well, I'm doing it anyway.
00:29:08.000 I'm marrying him.
00:29:08.600 It's like, I put all my eggs in that basket.
00:29:11.420 And so when he told me those things, it's like all of my eggs just broke in the basket
00:29:18.960 thrown, you know, because, um, you know, I really loved him and my heart was just shattered.
00:29:26.080 And so, um, at that point, you know, it was just, I don't know, trying to make sense of it all.
00:29:37.980 And, and at the same time thinking this whole relationship was a sham, you know, if all of
00:29:42.660 this was happening and, you know, and I was, you know, doing all these things that he would want.
00:29:49.260 So why, why would he do this?
00:29:52.020 You know, and, and I didn't understand, you know, the pornography addiction at that stage
00:29:57.920 in my life, you know, um, to know that it wasn't me that was the problem.
00:30:02.520 It was him.
00:30:03.640 Um, so, so that was really tough.
00:30:06.520 Um, and then from there, you know, I basically broke his heart by, um, intentionally cheating
00:30:17.080 on him and, uh, I, I felt like the only way he would let go of me was if I made him mad
00:30:23.520 and hate me.
00:30:24.420 So I went down that road, which is where you referenced my black sheep era. 0.92
00:30:31.120 That was where I just embraced it.
00:30:32.900 Like, I'm just, this is how I'm going to have to do this.
00:30:36.560 And it felt horrible.
00:30:37.560 Do you think that you were trying to numb your pain from losing your uncle and your dad?
00:30:43.340 I mean, it could have been multiple things, but I imagine at such a young age, like trying
00:30:49.040 to process that and cope with it was probably tough.
00:30:51.640 I think it's, it's very deep.
00:30:53.620 I mean, we know daddy issues.
00:30:55.560 We understand how that can carry into someone's life for, I mean, until the day that I, honestly,
00:31:01.520 some can, you know, they can have those issues and they can come out, um, unless they get
00:31:06.260 that healing and recognize it.
00:31:07.800 Um, but for me, my dad and my uncle like thought the world of me, you know, they loved me.
00:31:16.020 They loved spending time with me.
00:31:17.500 And so all I wanted was to have someone that cherished me like them, you know, and, and
00:31:24.300 wants to protect me and keep me safe.
00:31:26.840 And so when he, you know, broke my heart in that way, I think I just felt like I didn't
00:31:32.900 have any of that love anywhere because I'd basically drifted from God a little bit by
00:31:38.220 pursuing, you know, marrying him outside of maybe what God wanted for me.
00:31:43.460 So, um, yeah, that was, um, tough.
00:31:49.360 And then of course, you know, I went into the other relationship, which is, um, one that,
00:31:55.760 you know, I can't go back and forth and say, well, I regret it because I have two beautiful
00:32:00.600 children.
00:32:01.120 And I have twins.
00:32:02.200 Yeah.
00:32:02.460 So your first, your first kids were twins, boy and a girl.
00:32:06.540 I bet that was an amazing moment when you got that first sonogram and you were like,
00:32:10.760 excuse me.
00:32:11.640 I almost passed out.
00:32:12.980 Yeah.
00:32:13.440 Like it's one thing when it's like your second or third pregnancy.
00:32:16.780 I just can't imagine for your first, you're like, excuse me.
00:32:20.280 Yeah.
00:32:20.880 I was, um, I was doing all right.
00:32:23.760 I went to the appointment alone because I'm like, Hey, it's just the first one.
00:32:26.980 It's cool.
00:32:27.460 And, um, when she said, Oh, no wonder you're so sick.
00:32:33.620 I'm like, okay.
00:32:34.520 She's saying that with happiness in her voice.
00:32:37.200 So it can't, it can't be bad.
00:32:39.400 Yeah.
00:32:39.960 She's like, you're having twins.
00:32:41.520 I'm like, what?
00:32:42.500 Oh my goodness.
00:32:44.600 I had like an immediate wave of heat over my body and they'd offered me crackers and water
00:32:50.740 earlier.
00:32:51.060 And I was like, no, no, no, I'm good.
00:32:51.920 I'm like, okay, yeah, maybe I'll take the crackers and water.
00:32:55.140 I almost passed out.
00:32:56.440 So, um, yeah, that, that was wild.
00:32:59.940 You know, I, I called my mom.
00:33:01.500 I'm like, mom, why do I always have the hard way?
00:33:03.380 I have everything the hard way.
00:33:04.560 And, you know, most people go like twins.
00:33:06.240 That's amazing.
00:33:06.880 What a blessing.
00:33:07.500 But pregnancy was not easy.
00:33:10.060 Um, you know, I was horribly sick the whole entire time.
00:33:13.580 The whole time.
00:33:14.240 I was 180 pounds the day I had them.
00:33:17.100 Wow.
00:33:17.560 And you're like very petite.
00:33:19.620 Five, three and a half.
00:33:20.860 Yes.
00:33:21.460 Yeah.
00:33:22.260 So it was a lot to carry around.
00:33:23.740 That's a lot to carry around.
00:33:24.860 Okay.
00:33:25.040 I did, this is, I mean, you, this might be like a weird question to you, but we talk about
00:33:29.300 like birth and stuff on this podcast.
00:33:30.960 Did you have a C-section?
00:33:32.200 I did.
00:33:32.740 Okay.
00:33:33.260 I, um, was hoping I wouldn't have to, but, um, they were breech transverse for a whole
00:33:39.260 month before.
00:33:40.400 Which is also like very uncomfortable.
00:33:42.680 Yes.
00:33:43.600 Physically very uncomfortable.
00:33:45.040 I think that's why my ribs are like offset now.
00:33:47.260 Probably.
00:33:48.000 Yeah.
00:33:48.100 I've never had twins.
00:33:49.340 I have three kids and even my ribs are like messed up probably forever.
00:33:53.800 Yeah.
00:33:53.900 So I can imagine.
00:33:55.640 Yes.
00:33:56.060 Okay.
00:33:56.440 So had your twin babies.
00:33:57.840 How old are they now?
00:33:58.920 18.
00:33:59.680 Oh my goodness.
00:34:01.200 No way.
00:34:01.660 Just graduated.
00:34:02.440 Yeah.
00:34:02.840 Okay.
00:34:03.380 Has it gone by like that?
00:34:05.620 Um, yes and no.
00:34:07.240 Yeah.
00:34:07.420 No.
00:34:07.660 Cause there's so many seasons, so many things packed in there.
00:34:10.820 So on one, on one hand it seems long and then I can also remember the day they were
00:34:16.640 born like that, you know?
00:34:17.580 Yeah.
00:34:17.860 So, and going from zero babies to two babies when it came to sleeping and feeding and all
00:34:25.140 of that stuff.
00:34:25.880 I mean, if you can remember back, what was that like?
00:34:29.520 Well, there wasn't a lot of sleep.
00:34:31.640 Um, good thing was he was, you know, their dad was hands on at the time and, um, was, you
00:34:38.640 know, helpful and, and then people told me about the, um, the night nurse thing.
00:34:45.720 Oh, she can come in and, you know, you can have someone help out.
00:34:49.440 I'm like, really?
00:34:51.120 Yeah.
00:34:51.640 Okay.
00:34:51.900 I think I would do that if I had twins, just someone to give me a little relief.
00:34:55.460 Yes.
00:34:56.020 Yes.
00:34:56.460 So you got to sleep to be sane.
00:34:58.480 I read a book about, you know, getting them on a schedule and all that.
00:35:02.160 So I'm really glad I did that because I see some people just struggle to have sanity with,
00:35:07.920 um, you know, with twins, cause one's awake, one's asleep, one's, you know, they're back
00:35:13.220 and forth.
00:35:13.680 So I did get that going, which was helpful.
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00:36:37.360 I think I remember reading in your book and something that you've written that it was
00:36:46.760 kind of in your third, it was in your third marriage in the midst of a lot of turmoil.
00:36:51.040 There was just constant conflict you talked about between you and your husband at the
00:36:54.260 time when you find, when you really felt like, okay, God, I need you.
00:36:59.220 I need you to help me.
00:37:00.260 Can you talk about that?
00:37:01.320 Yeah.
00:37:02.040 Yeah.
00:37:02.120 Well, you know, you can see where I'm, like, trying to fill that void with these marriages.
00:37:09.320 And it was really, like, couldn't be alone.
00:37:15.220 Um, so this one didn't work, latched onto this, this one, you know, this one didn't work, latched
00:37:22.060 onto this one.
00:37:22.940 So I tell people, broken people, pick broken people.
00:37:27.740 And I think that, you know, these weren't necessarily relationships that God had ordained
00:37:32.480 and said, okay, you two should be together.
00:37:34.160 But out of my pain and not wanting to be alone and really searching for that person that was
00:37:40.480 going to love and protect me, like my dad and my uncle, um, was, you know, it was a quest
00:37:47.640 and I was very unsuccessful.
00:37:49.960 Um, and so that relationship, um, you know, was, it was very tough.
00:37:57.940 I, you know, was not okay with sex outside of marriage.
00:38:03.680 And so, um, I slipped and one time got pregnant.
00:38:11.740 And so my, um, third child, um, was basically, you know, born in a tough, it was a tough situation.
00:38:24.860 And I wanted to marry and thought this is the right thing to do.
00:38:30.120 And, um, so yeah, there was, there was a lot there.
00:38:34.820 We're going into, uh, um, you know, had I not got pregnant, we probably wouldn't have stayed
00:38:41.200 together.
00:38:42.120 Um, but, um, that was the, the darkest time of my life for sure.
00:38:49.280 Um, and really finding out like, hey, you're just not going to get this.
00:38:54.860 This from a person that love you want that being cherished on it.
00:38:59.280 It's not going to happen.
00:39:00.240 And I just really turned to God and said, God, you're the only one you're, you're the
00:39:06.340 only one that I can truly trust.
00:39:08.740 And I have to be okay with not having this from a person I need to, like, I want to be
00:39:15.380 okay alone because in this marriage right now, I feel alone.
00:39:19.260 Mm-hmm.
00:39:20.460 And, um, and he met me there.
00:39:23.200 Yeah.
00:39:23.720 He met me there for sure.
00:39:25.200 What did it look like coming out of that?
00:39:27.000 And how old were you at this point?
00:39:28.920 Good question.
00:39:30.280 Uh, let's see.
00:39:31.020 I was, it was 2010.
00:39:35.640 This was before you took over In-N-Out.
00:39:38.140 It was, uh, about the same time.
00:39:40.920 Oh, okay.
00:39:41.800 Yeah.
00:39:42.360 So it was a lot at once.
00:39:44.680 Yeah.
00:39:44.920 Um, 2010 was, um, it was before, you know, a lot of people externally say, okay, once
00:39:52.380 you're 35.
00:39:53.580 Yeah.
00:39:53.960 You officially, but that was just the semantics with the trust and all that.
00:39:58.000 I mean, honestly, I was, I became president in 2010.
00:40:01.620 Okay.
00:40:01.940 And, um, same year I'm going through, um, divorce, get pregnant during that divorce and
00:40:11.660 then have my son in 2011.
00:40:14.680 Wow.
00:40:15.260 So, um, oh, it was really hard.
00:40:20.240 I mean, for me to even show up to work and be who I'm supposed to be, um, was tough.
00:40:28.000 There were days that I just couldn't even come in because of the turmoil in the relationship.
00:40:33.140 And, um, you know, turning, getting to that place where I finally, you know, even, even
00:40:40.160 though it wasn't a drug, it's like the term hit bottom.
00:40:42.420 Like I had hit a, a bottom where I just, yeah, I went completely to God.
00:40:48.460 And so, um, I was 30, I feel like I was about 30 when that started to happen with me and
00:41:00.340 God.
00:41:01.220 And, um, you know, I really tried to stick it out and, um, you know, I've heard you talk
00:41:07.180 about toxic empathy, um, different context, but well, um, I think I was a little bit in
00:41:16.420 denial that I'm an empath.
00:41:18.680 Um, and then I started to realize, well, you don't want to give up on people.
00:41:23.940 You want to help people when they don't want help.
00:41:26.860 You are more invested in, you know, the betterment of, of someone's life than them even seeking
00:41:36.880 out or asking you for help.
00:41:38.380 And so I'm like, yeah, I think I kind of, I kind of am.
00:41:41.200 So, and I don't give up also.
00:41:43.260 So I think there's, there's some good in there somewhere, but, um, of course it's not always
00:41:49.220 it's, I mean, empathy by itself isn't bad, right?
00:41:52.220 It's only when it leads you to affirm people's sin or validate lies.
00:41:56.860 And, you know, all of us have kind of like been in those moments.
00:41:59.780 It can't be super like positively powerful and lead you toward healthy love.
00:42:03.740 It can also lead us toward enabling people in an unhealthy way.
00:42:07.540 Yes.
00:42:08.160 Well, I would say I definitely have that.
00:42:10.720 So, um, I, I guess, um, you know, it was actually a pastor that helped me, um, come to the realization
00:42:21.540 that this was not, this was not God's will for you to be married to like this.
00:42:26.960 I'm like, wait, you've talked about how horrible divorce is.
00:42:30.500 I've basically felt like, you know, that is not an option.
00:42:33.740 And, and I've already been divorced more than once.
00:42:36.020 Like, this is how much worse can it get for me?
00:42:38.540 I can't, how will I ever be able to be in a relationship again if I don't stick this
00:42:43.220 one out and try?
00:42:44.620 And, um, and I think it was just, you know, the, the infidelity and, and the lack of repentance
00:42:53.120 and, and all of that finally, um, took me to a place where, you know, the pastor said,
00:43:00.060 hey, like, this isn't, you don't have to stay in this, this person's not, uh, stopping.
00:43:05.460 And, um, so I, um, filed, told my attorney I wanted to file for separation and we had
00:43:15.440 separated physically.
00:43:17.220 Um, but when I called my attorney back to check on the status, he said, yeah, the divorce,
00:43:24.240 blah, blah, blah.
00:43:24.580 I was like, what?
00:43:26.380 He told me that he'd filed for divorce.
00:43:29.160 I'm like, I told you separation.
00:43:31.420 And so it was really strange because you don't want to think, oh, did God actually do that?
00:43:37.760 Was that the only way I was going to do it?
00:43:39.280 Because he was saying like, this is okay, but, um, I was raised to know that God hates
00:43:45.880 divorce, but then I also found in Proverbs where he also hates lying lips, those who rush 0.99
00:43:51.060 into, you know, evil, like all of, you know, all of those other things.
00:43:54.600 And it's like, okay, it's not just divorce.
00:43:56.300 He hates, he hates a lot of other things that I was living in.
00:43:58.980 And, um, so yeah, I, I don't know that I would have, um, gone through with it had, um, you
00:44:09.880 know, there not be some, there was some signs and some help for sure from others.
00:44:15.840 And what did kind of like coming into the light and healing and repenting for you look
00:44:21.520 like?
00:44:21.940 2010, really, really tough year, but obviously things got better both.
00:44:26.640 I mean, and you leading the company, but also you personally.
00:44:30.200 So tell us what that looked like.
00:44:32.380 Yeah.
00:44:32.840 Um, there was a lot of guilt and like you said, like me repenting.
00:44:40.200 So I, I had already repented by that time, but because of the guilt I had, um, from the
00:44:50.440 other divorces and just the things that I had done, I felt like I had, I think that's part
00:44:56.040 of why I felt like I had to stick it out and it was okay for me to be cheated on because
00:44:59.560 of, you know, maybe I deserved it, you know?
00:45:01.900 So there was a lot of really unhealthy, um, stuff in my mind.
00:45:07.720 And, and I felt like I had to kind of work my way back to God, which is not the way it
00:45:14.620 goes, you know, his grace is sufficient and he can have us back in an instant.
00:45:18.000 But, um, I wasn't accepting that for myself.
00:45:21.640 It's like, even though he had it there, it took me a while to actually accept that I was
00:45:26.300 forgiven and that, um, I could forgive myself and all of that.
00:45:31.420 So when I did that, um, and that season with God that was so sweet, um, while I was single
00:45:41.780 really for the first time in my life and, um, you think, oh, you'd be lonely and it'd
00:45:47.900 be so tough after everything you've gone through, but it was honestly one of the best seasons
00:45:51.380 of my life.
00:45:51.940 Like I felt so close to him and finally realized that, um, I didn't need a person to feel whole.
00:46:02.740 I could be whole with him, with God.
00:46:06.920 And, um, so it was, it was great.
00:46:09.760 And I think that's when, you know, my leadership in and out really started to, um, flourish because
00:46:17.340 it was, again, it was God's love and God's mercy and grace and everything in my life that
00:46:23.540 was starting to come out into, um, you know, our workshops and the stuff we teach and train.
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00:47:38.340 I remember a few years ago, of course, I had already been an In-N-Out fan, but a few years
00:47:50.120 ago, I saw that In-N-Out around San Francisco refused to like check, was it vaccine status?
00:47:58.840 California at the time said in order to go into a restaurant, you have to show your vaccine
00:48:03.820 card, which is insane to say, to think about.
00:48:07.680 And the In-N-Out locations were like, no.
00:48:10.080 And even the head of legal here was like, we're not doing that.
00:48:13.200 Yeah.
00:48:13.580 Right?
00:48:14.180 Right.
00:48:14.960 Yeah.
00:48:15.420 So tell me what went into that decision.
00:48:17.060 Um, well, there was, there were so many pressures and just hoops we were having to jump through.
00:48:24.560 You know, you've got to do this.
00:48:25.880 They have to wear a mask.
00:48:26.780 They have to put this plastic thing up between us and our customers.
00:48:29.800 And it was really terrible, you know?
00:48:33.760 And I look back and I'm like, man, maybe we should have just pushed even harder on some
00:48:37.780 of that stuff and dealt with all the legal backlash.
00:48:40.980 But, um, but that was definitely where we held the line.
00:48:45.940 Like, we're not, we're not policing our customers, you know?
00:48:50.160 I mean, I think of my uncle saying, you know, we're not going to serve something, we're not
00:48:56.360 going to serve them something that we wouldn't eat or want, we want to give them the best.
00:48:59.900 And it's like, I wouldn't do that to anyone, you know?
00:49:03.280 I don't want this and I don't expect them to want it.
00:49:06.500 So, yeah.
00:49:07.580 And did you have backlash from the state of California?
00:49:10.980 Um, over that, honestly, we, we, yeah, yes, we were shut down, shut down for a brief
00:49:22.620 moment, but it's worth it.
00:49:25.120 Yeah.
00:49:25.700 It's worth it.
00:49:26.180 I think there's a lot of people that were charged by that move.
00:49:29.980 So it's good.
00:49:30.880 Yeah, absolutely.
00:49:32.280 We can be closed down for a couple days and, uh, and feel good about it.
00:49:38.240 Yeah.
00:49:38.760 Fought through it.
00:49:39.620 Okay.
00:49:40.800 So state of California, crazy in some ways, beautiful in a lot of ways, crazy in other
00:49:45.160 ways, policy-wise.
00:49:46.380 I know that y'all have felt that and y'all talked about opening up shop in Franklin, Tennessee,
00:49:52.280 right?
00:49:53.240 Um, so tell me kind of like what that move, what that expansion means for the country or
00:49:58.200 not for the country, maybe for the country, but specifically for the company.
00:50:02.220 Um, so going back a little further, my uncle opened the office in Irvine that we have.
00:50:12.880 So we're in Baldwin Park and then Irvine opened in the 90s.
00:50:16.560 Um, when my dad, um, came down to run the business, um, cause he had moved us away.
00:50:25.840 We moved to Northern California.
00:50:26.900 It was family over fighting with his brother and running.
00:50:29.860 So, um, he came down and saw Irvine and all of that and was just like, this is not us.
00:50:37.740 This is not our roots.
00:50:40.600 This is not my dad.
00:50:41.880 Um, and he wanted to move everyone back to Baldwin Park.
00:50:46.520 So kind of did a hybrid.
00:50:48.900 He moved a lot of people back to Baldwin Park, but Irvine continued on and continued to grow.
00:50:54.920 And then, you know, my dad died a handful of years later.
00:50:58.280 So he never got to bring everyone back here and close Irvine.
00:51:02.880 So Irvine now, you know, we went from having a couple floors to nearly the whole building,
00:51:07.660 you know, um, so my vision for a long time has been to have, you know, these two offices
00:51:18.120 under one roof.
00:51:19.640 And, uh, so that's basically what's going to happen.
00:51:24.460 We're building an office in, in Franklin.
00:51:26.880 So I'm actually moving out there.
00:51:29.400 And how do you feel about that?
00:51:31.000 You, you're like a California girl through, right?
00:51:33.960 Yeah.
00:51:34.260 I, I mean, I really loved living in Northern California and I'm so thankful that I grew
00:51:41.740 up up there because I think it changed a lot of who I am today.
00:51:45.640 You know, I think I would be different if I was raised in Southern California.
00:51:49.040 Um, but, um, there, like you said, there's a lot of great things about California, but,
00:51:56.060 um, raising a family is not easy here.
00:52:01.540 Doing business is not easy here.
00:52:03.260 You know, the bulk of our stores are still going to be here in California, but, um, it
00:52:10.340 will be wonderful having an office out there growing out there.
00:52:16.580 Um, and being able to have the family and other people's families out there.
00:52:22.800 Um, and so in that it's two part, we'll have everybody under one roof here in Baldwin Park
00:52:30.380 and we'll close our find.
00:52:32.040 Okay.
00:52:32.680 Yeah.
00:52:32.860 That's a, that's a big transition and that's happening in the next few years, right?
00:52:36.940 Yeah.
00:52:37.360 We, we, we've kind of, you know, given it a longer runway so that it's smoother for everybody
00:52:42.040 so they can plan and all of that.
00:52:44.460 And we gave them a lot of notice, you know, because we love them and want to make it as
00:52:49.340 easy as possible.
00:52:50.080 But yeah, by 2030, we'll close the Irvine office.
00:52:53.880 Okay.
00:52:54.200 So at one point you said that within your lifetime, like if you draw a line through the front
00:53:00.540 of Texas, everything to the left, like you want in and out there, but not maybe to the
00:53:06.500 right of the line.
00:53:07.620 And you talked about just like the importance of the kind of like novelty of in and out,
00:53:12.560 like that you liked when someone comes into town where there's an in and out, they're
00:53:15.880 like, I got to go there, which is totally true.
00:53:17.960 That's what people do by the way.
00:53:20.040 Um, I'm guessing though, since you're going to be, you know, to the right of that line that
00:53:25.700 you're probably going to be opening up in and outs there.
00:53:28.740 So what does the strategy look like?
00:53:30.420 Has it changed?
00:53:31.580 Well, it's funny.
00:53:33.140 I think, um, Kid Rock, his name is Bob.
00:53:36.140 I think he's the one that actually drew the new map and he put the line up from Texas,
00:53:41.380 grabbed Tennessee, went around Tennessee and back up.
00:53:44.360 And I'm like, yeah, that's how you're doing.
00:53:45.680 There you go.
00:53:46.620 So I think for me, it's the same heart.
00:53:51.780 It's just, I guess I would say a man plans his ways and God's steps, you know, so we had
00:53:57.180 had a plan and then he snuck that in there.
00:53:59.980 And I think, you know, Florida has begged us and we're still saying no, you know, the East
00:54:05.700 Coast states, we're still saying no, um, you know, we're able to reach Tennessee from our
00:54:12.360 Texas warehouse.
00:54:13.840 So we're not putting a, our whole meat facility where we do all of our own beef and, and send
00:54:20.420 it to our stores, make patties. 1.00
00:54:21.900 We're not going to have that there.
00:54:24.240 Um, we'll have a warehouse, but not, um, do our own meat there.
00:54:28.140 So we'll be able to deliver from Texas.
00:54:29.960 So Texas can reach some other States, you know, so, you know, yeah.
00:54:36.360 Okay.
00:54:37.000 Most companies are thinking, how can we expand to as many places as possible, as fast as
00:54:42.140 possible.
00:54:42.820 That's not your number one priority, clearly.
00:54:45.900 So what is your number one priority?
00:54:48.400 My number one priority is really keeping the company, the same company that my grandparents
00:54:57.420 started as, you know, I want the legacy to continue.
00:55:02.100 Um, and we're doing that, but we're growing and we're so much bigger than we were when they
00:55:08.240 started it.
00:55:09.000 So growth is healthy and we have to have that growth.
00:55:12.500 And so it's really having that balance of, okay, you know, we have all of these amazing
00:55:19.060 people coming up through management.
00:55:22.240 They want to have a store one day, you know, so we have to have some growth, but we also
00:55:27.880 don't want to be on every corner.
00:55:29.300 We don't want to be in every state and we don't want to ever compromise our values and
00:55:34.620 standards and, um, the cornerstones that my, that my grandparents laid down, you know,
00:55:39.280 so, um, so it's really just, you know, keeping those priorities, the forefront when we make
00:55:47.220 decisions.
00:55:48.180 Yeah.
00:55:48.380 You're also not interested in adding a bunch of variety to your menu.
00:55:52.820 I mean, I'm guessing that's how you are able to keep all of the production under your own
00:55:57.700 house is that your menu is simple and it's going to stay simple, right?
00:56:01.680 Yep.
00:56:02.820 That's your priority to keep it that way.
00:56:04.560 Why do you think that you are one of the very few, like third generation, um, leaders of
00:56:12.840 a company that really, really does care so much about what your grandparents wanted?
00:56:20.160 I know that you've been offered a lot of money for In-N-Out, like you've mentioned princes,
00:56:24.640 like giving offers and things like that.
00:56:26.980 And you've said, absolutely not interested.
00:56:30.080 So what is it?
00:56:31.060 Huh, you know, um, I think part of it is, um, I mean, one, God, just God, you know?
00:56:43.700 Um, but for me personally, what motivates me, um, I guess humility.
00:56:52.920 Um, I don't deserve anything.
00:56:57.440 Um, and so I want to serve, um, I want to serve God by honoring, um, what my family started.
00:57:10.300 I want to make it something that he's proud of.
00:57:13.140 I want, um, you know, as I'm trying to hold true to what they want, I also see that there
00:57:20.100 were some things that needed to be better and what would God want, you know, what would
00:57:24.940 he want here and how can we make these things, um, fit, uh, God's priorities in the way he
00:57:34.080 would, uh, lead people and love people, care for them and teach them.
00:57:40.340 And so those things, I guess, just hold, holding true to, you know, uh, my stewardship.
00:57:53.400 It's like, I'm, I've been given this responsibility, so I don't, one, I don't deserve anything I
00:57:58.100 have.
00:57:58.540 So I want to, uh, just honor him, glorify him, thank him by, um, keeping it the way it's
00:58:07.280 supposed to be.
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00:59:41.600 You are married, and you have four babies now.
00:59:50.120 Tell me how you met your husband.
00:59:52.400 Oh, well, this one's kind of funny.
00:59:55.020 We met on a dating app.
00:59:56.660 Oh, you did?
00:59:57.380 Yes.
00:59:57.920 Okay.
00:59:58.680 You came out of like really difficult time, and then you decided, okay, like I'm ready.
01:00:05.420 Yeah.
01:00:05.660 And I honestly thought, okay, I'm on here, but the likelihood of me finding the right
01:00:12.600 person, you know, I wanted the anonymity where they didn't know who I was.
01:00:18.380 So I'm like, okay, I might have to just use a different name on here for now.
01:00:24.000 And then, you know, if something develops, tell them.
01:00:28.400 Yeah.
01:00:28.640 But I thought, to be honest, that after everything I went through, and this is, you know, I wasn't
01:00:40.600 living in guilt, but it's probably just those kind of guilt-type thoughts where you're going
01:00:44.240 to have to work your way back to even have a relationship with someone and have a marriage.
01:00:48.540 You know, will I even be blessed with having a marriage, you know?
01:00:51.840 So just God showing off, you know, it wasn't long, and he brought me someone that totally
01:01:04.540 loves me for who I am, cherishes me, tries to protect me, loves my kids.
01:01:11.320 You know, I came with some baggage and, you know, loved my three children, still loves them,
01:01:18.160 and, you know, I ended up having another that I swore I wasn't going to have.
01:01:21.300 Yeah.
01:01:22.260 And how old's your youngest?
01:01:23.640 Ten.
01:01:24.240 Ten.
01:01:24.800 Yeah.
01:01:24.980 Okay.
01:01:25.800 Wow.
01:01:26.320 Yeah.
01:01:26.560 So we've been married almost 11 years, and it's just, it's been a huge blessing.
01:01:36.580 And, you know, so many things were different about that relationship when it started.
01:01:42.500 We decided to pray for each other the first time we spoke.
01:01:47.160 You know, what can I pray for for you?
01:01:49.760 Here's what you can pray for for me.
01:01:51.300 We covered all of the controversial topics first conversation.
01:01:56.680 That's good.
01:01:56.980 Like, let's just get this out.
01:01:58.560 Exactly.
01:01:59.180 Get them out of the way, for sure.
01:02:00.560 Like, wear the red flags.
01:02:01.700 Let's see if I can bring some up.
01:02:02.840 Yeah.
01:02:03.540 Might as well.
01:02:04.540 Just knock it out.
01:02:05.920 Yeah.
01:02:06.200 So, yeah.
01:02:09.000 And, you know, something I felt with him, and he felt the same as I'm like, I've never been with someone that made me love God more.
01:02:16.800 You know, when you meet someone like that after everything you've been through, again, feeling undeserving, just feeling God's grace and going like, wow, you must really love me to give me this after everything I've screwed up.
01:02:30.280 Mm-hmm.
01:02:31.560 Yeah.
01:02:31.900 Yeah.
01:02:32.540 That's amazing.
01:02:33.360 You've talked about this idea of God not being like a plug-in in your life, but being plugged into God.
01:02:44.920 Can you talk about the difference between those two things?
01:02:47.720 Yeah.
01:02:48.300 I think that's—I didn't really think about it before, but it's almost what separates lukewarm Christianity from the real thing.
01:02:56.980 And it's, you know, people will talk about, you know, you have all of these different things in your life.
01:03:02.940 You have work.
01:03:03.800 You have family.
01:03:04.940 You have God.
01:03:05.760 And all the other things plugged into this, like, power strip.
01:03:10.400 And the way I say is the healthy, the right way is God is the power strip.
01:03:18.580 He is your life, and then you plug all those other things into it.
01:03:22.480 And it's also a good indicator if something shouldn't be plugged in, because if it doesn't fit with Him, then He'll—they can't go together.
01:03:30.780 So true.
01:03:31.480 I love that analogy.
01:03:32.540 Mm-hmm.
01:03:33.140 I just read this Fox News headline that was about In-N-Out, and it was about the happiness of your employees and the satisfaction of the people that work here.
01:03:43.780 Not just the people who have been here forever, but we're talking about the people that we all interact with, you know, at the cash register.
01:03:50.480 Those—it was, like, something crazy.
01:03:52.160 Like, 91% of employees said that they would recommend their job to someone else, which is, like, kind of an insane number.
01:03:59.680 So what is the difference maker?
01:04:03.000 How do you make sure that you have happy employees?
01:04:07.360 Well, you know, it's a priority for us to take care of them, you know.
01:04:12.500 And I'd say we're family.
01:04:14.860 They really are, like, my family, and I feel responsible for them, you know.
01:04:19.460 I feel like having the stewardship, I feel like I'm being entrusted, and I feel a very heavy weight of responsibility to do my best.
01:04:33.440 And I want to take care of them.
01:04:34.980 I want to love them.
01:04:35.880 I want them to feel God's love.
01:04:37.400 And, you know, kind of walking in that humility and sharing things and being open and letting them into my life, it just changes the atmosphere, you know.
01:04:53.480 So I think that we have something very special, something tangible that is just not necessarily in all businesses, you know.
01:05:03.900 So I do believe that God's love can be felt in this company.
01:05:12.340 And some people can't really figure out what they feel or what it is that's so special.
01:05:17.240 But I can't tell you how many times it's been confirmed.
01:05:21.400 I'm going to butcher it, not say it right, but the Hebrew word, yod, it's like the 10th letter in their alphabet, and it means hand of God.
01:05:32.600 And it was literally on the wall at one of our anniversary dinners.
01:05:38.480 It was in the invitation design was like kind of an old English font, and the eye, like the dot on the eye, was that Hebrew character.
01:05:50.960 And it wasn't intentionally placed.
01:05:52.620 It was just the way.
01:05:53.420 And I saw it, and I was like, I feel like that's Hebrew.
01:05:56.180 I looked it up, and when I saw that it was hand of God, I'm like, I'm like, the writing is on the wall, and it's the eye.
01:06:02.820 Yeah.
01:06:03.200 I am, and so I was just tripping because, like, that's just exactly what we have here is the hand of God on this company.
01:06:14.640 And that's why we've weathered all these storms, these tragedies, and my life, and even coming into my leadership and everything I went through.
01:06:25.100 He's Romans 8, 28.
01:06:26.720 He's worked it out.
01:06:28.460 All things, yes.
01:06:29.540 Okay, last thing, advice that you can give any business leader, whether they have three employees, whether they have 3,000 employees.
01:06:38.820 Here's my specific question.
01:06:41.600 What advice would you give them to help them get their employees to catch on to their vision?
01:06:53.900 I think that can be a difficult thing as a leader.
01:06:56.740 You have a vision.
01:06:57.640 You have these people.
01:06:58.660 You want everyone to be as enthusiastic about your vision as you are, but some people just don't know how to bridge that gap, how to do that.
01:07:06.100 What would your advice be?
01:07:08.920 I think there's two main things that come to mind.
01:07:11.720 One is the connection to them.
01:07:14.400 You have to build that connection to them.
01:07:16.280 And for me, my road was a lot of transparency, a lot of sharing my own weaknesses and vulnerability.
01:07:26.000 A lot of leaders do not want to be vulnerable, and I say, go against the grain.
01:07:30.260 Just do it.
01:07:30.860 It's worth it.
01:07:32.840 There's risk involved, but that's okay.
01:07:36.420 That's good.
01:07:36.880 So, that connection, because once they feel connected to you, then you have the buy-in to train them.
01:07:46.540 And the training is the next piece of you have a vision, you have a mission.
01:07:50.480 You have to tell the same story over and over and over and the why behind it.
01:07:55.840 This is why we do this.
01:07:57.820 This is why this is important to us.
01:08:00.000 This is why we do it this way and not the way they do it.
01:08:02.420 Right.
01:08:02.880 So, really, the connection and that relationship, and then just the repetition and sharing all the whys.
01:08:09.560 The story and the why.
01:08:10.600 I love that.
01:08:11.160 Thank you so much.
01:08:11.920 Super helpful.
01:08:12.460 Lindsay, I appreciate you taking the time to talk with us.
01:08:15.740 So encouraging.
01:08:16.880 And thanks again for hosting us in your awesome office.
01:08:20.300 We're excited for your next move.
01:08:22.420 Excited that y'all are coming down south.
01:08:24.660 It'll be good.
01:08:25.560 Thank you.
01:08:26.020 Thank you.
01:08:27.280 Thank you.