Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1233 ｜ Was MLK a Christian Hero？ Shocking Revelations Uncovered ｜ Chad O. Jackson

00:00:00.840 What if everything you think you know about the civil rights movement and MLK is a lie?

00:00:08.960 Today we've got Chad Jackson. He is a researcher and a filmmaker. He is creating a docu-series

00:00:15.240 about who MLK really was and how his ideology has captured the hearts and minds of many

00:00:23.340 Christians to the church's peril. Here is the trailer for that docu-series, Satwan. 1.00

00:00:30.000 Our leader of our nation. Our leader, Dr. King. Our leader, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

00:00:35.440 Dr. King was our leader. It's he who controls the narrative of the past, controls the policies of the present and the conditions of the future.

00:00:44.020 If Dr. King was about judging people by the content of their character rather than the color of their skin,

00:00:55.500 should we judge King by the content of his character?

00:00:58.720 Dr. King, it's been alleged that you have been slow to sever your ties with alleged communists.

00:01:04.120 Stanley Levson, yeah, he's always in his ear.

00:01:06.380 I mean, he wrote everything that MLK said publicly.

00:01:09.820 Always in his ear.

00:01:11.340 He rejected the deity of Christ, the resurrection, the virgin birth. He rejected a literal hell.

00:01:16.400 Can we trust someone that appears to be faithful to a movement, but he's not faithful to his family?

00:01:22.900 Buckle up. If you love Untold History, you are going to love this episode.

00:01:28.560 It's brought to you by our friends at Olive.

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00:01:39.020 Chad, thanks so much for taking the time to join us.

00:01:51.300 We've already been having an amazing conversation off camera.

00:01:54.280 Maybe we can, like, bring it back for the audience to be able to hear.

00:01:57.720 But please tell everyone who you are and what you do.

00:02:00.300 Yeah, so my name is Chad Jackson.

00:02:01.720 I'm an independent filmmaker, as well as the owner of a small plumbing company.

00:02:06.200 So that's pretty much it.

00:02:07.920 Just a dad and just a down-to-earth guy, quite frankly.

00:02:13.240 And how did you get the platform that you do?

00:02:16.720 What made you want to start talking about the issues that you talk about?

00:02:21.400 Yeah, so that's a really good question.

00:02:24.740 So in high school, I took film classes.

00:02:27.260 That's actually what I wanted to pursue as a career.

00:02:29.120 But after high school, I met my then-girlfriend, now-wife.

00:02:33.200 And I knew that if I wanted to have a family, then I would have to get a job, a real job.

00:02:38.100 So I pursued the trades and ended up getting a master plumbing license and starting a company.

00:02:45.960 And around the time that I started my company, I was actually very active in Dallas County Republican politics.

00:02:53.480 And I was doing that for a few years.

00:02:56.120 I kind of grew tired of it just because of the fact that I didn't really see it going anywhere.

00:03:00.880 And then, two, my plumbing company was really taking off.

00:03:03.800 We were really getting a lot of business.

00:03:05.920 And around this time, Justin Malone, who is a Dallas-based filmmaker, set out to make his film Uncle Tom.

00:03:13.280 And he reached out to me because he heard about me through the Dallas County Republican Party.

00:03:18.900 And at the time, I wasn't really active.

00:03:20.940 And so I reluctantly agreed to sit down with him and be interviewed.

00:03:26.000 And I say reluctantly because I really wasn't sure what they were trying to do, whether they were trying to do a kind of gotcha film about black conservatives or whatever the case may be.

00:03:35.080 But we sat down.

00:03:37.420 He interviewed me.

00:03:38.940 The interview went really well.

00:03:40.600 He was asking a lot of good questions.

00:03:42.300 We had a really good conversation.

00:03:44.120 And so he took that footage from that interview, flew to L.A., and met with Larry Elder.

00:03:49.620 And Larry loved the interview.

00:03:52.660 He wanted to become an executive producer for what would become Uncle Tom and was able to connect Justin with people like Candace Owens, Alan West, Brandon Tatum, and others.

00:04:02.780 And that's how we ended up getting Uncle Tom, which was released in 2020.

00:04:07.120 And so after the success of that film, they asked me to come back because I'm an independent researcher as well and do the research and the producing for what would ultimately become Uncle Tom Part 2, which was released in 2022.

00:04:21.920 So that, I think, is how I kind of got the platform that I have.

00:04:25.160 And so with that, I was able to take a lot of the research that I'm doing and go out on my own and do my own independent thing as far as making docuseries and videos and things of that nature.

00:04:39.700 And you started looking into MLK and the civil rights era when?

00:04:45.580 So I started looking into that in around 2019.

00:04:48.620 Okay.

00:04:49.120 2019.

00:04:49.860 And why?

00:04:50.420 Well, I think for me, it was kind of a course correction, quite frankly.

00:04:56.800 Having gone to public school, learning about Dr. King every January and every Black History Month, learning that he was this great hero, learning that the civil rights movement was a high point for America.

00:05:08.800 I really believe that.

00:05:10.060 I believe that King was the kind of, he was the quintessential race unifier, if you will.

00:05:21.700 And as I grew up and began to do my own research, because let me rewind just quite a bit.

00:05:29.060 So whenever we were doing the research for Uncle Tom Part 2, we were looking into cultural Marxism, ideological subversion, and infiltration, Marxist infiltration into the church.

00:05:42.360 We were looking into these things because we knew that there was something there.

00:05:46.160 These are things that I've been researching since high school.

00:05:48.200 But I always separated King from being a part of that.

00:05:52.540 Marxism and all of that.

00:05:53.120 I mean, I knew about the Frankfurt School.

00:05:55.480 I knew about Antonio Gramsci.

00:05:57.400 I knew about cultural Marxism.

00:05:59.180 I knew about people like Angela Davis, who was mentored by Herbert Marcuse, who was of the Frankfurt School.

00:06:06.160 But even though King had proximity to all these people, I always felt the need to separate him from those things because it's a no-brainer.

00:06:16.340 King is a hero.

00:06:17.040 We all believe he's a hero, regardless of if you're on the left or the right of the political spectrum.

00:06:21.160 But the more that we were challenging ourselves in Uncle Tom Part 2 to really kind of get underneath the layers and see what was going on, it just kept coming back.

00:06:32.900 King, king, king.

00:06:34.600 And we had to follow the thread in a truthful way because it wasn't about being a commercial success.

00:06:43.540 It was more about getting to the bottom of things, really.

00:06:46.620 And really what we wanted to do with Uncle Tom Part 2, which was different than Part 1, is where Part 1 was more focused on Black Conservatism 101, Part 2 wanted to take the audience deeper, wanted to basically say, come along with us as we reveal real American history as it pertains to Black Americans.

00:07:07.360 And so with King, it was just a big disappointment to find out the things that we ended up finding out about him in terms of the fact that he wasn't a real Christian.

00:07:19.800 He didn't believe in the deity of Christ.

00:07:22.020 He didn't believe in the virgin birth.

00:07:23.900 He didn't believe that Jesus rose from the dead.

00:07:27.000 He didn't believe in the literal existence of heaven and hell.

00:07:29.380 He didn't believe that Jesus was going to come again.

00:07:31.180 He basically didn't believe in the basic fundamental tenets of the Christian faith.

00:07:35.300 And you found this out through his own words, correct?

00:07:39.020 Through his own words, right.

00:07:40.300 I mean, there's seven volumes, and there's plenty more from where this comes from at the Stanford Library.

00:07:45.960 But, you know, his papers, if you read those papers, you'll find that, you know, by his own admission, he rejected the deity of Christ as early as the age of 12.

00:07:56.080 He said that he shocked his Sunday school class by rejecting the virgin birth and the resurrection.

00:08:03.460 And he never recanted from that.

00:08:05.300 He never backtracked on that or anything.

00:08:08.040 He always believed that.

00:08:09.300 He wrote that as an adult, talking about the fact that when he was 12, he didn't believe those things.

00:08:14.260 That's correct.

00:08:14.560 And as he was writing as an adult, he was saying, and yet he was almost proud of that, saying, wow, I was a revolutionary against Christianity from a very early age. 0.51

00:08:24.240 That's absolutely right.

00:08:25.140 That's absolutely right.

00:08:25.980 But in fact, he didn't even want to become a pastor.

00:08:29.180 He said he wanted to become a lawyer or a doctor or something like that.

00:08:32.780 But he was talked into becoming a pastor by his family.

00:08:36.240 And the thing about King, which is very interesting, is that he had something like a photographic memory.

00:08:44.320 He was very witty, very charismatic, very charming.

00:08:47.460 And then, too, he had a front row seat to his father, who was a pastor growing up.

00:08:55.920 And as somebody who was a great mimic, according to those who were closest to him, he can impersonate anyone and sound just like them.

00:09:04.320 Wow.

00:09:04.400 He had a front row seat to his pastor's cadence and the pacing of his preaching and his oratory skills.

00:09:11.080 And King picked up on that quite easily.

00:09:13.680 And so he was convinced to go into the ministry and to go to Crozer Theological Seminary, which by the time King went there, already had a lot of Marxist professors.

00:09:28.540 Those who were Marxists and those who were just proponents of the so-called social gospel.

00:09:32.220 And King was able to take that teaching in, make it his own, and it would be the launching pad of his career.

00:09:46.520 Okay, y'all.

00:09:47.420 The other day, Candice Cameron Bure shared about Share the Arrows.

00:09:50.720 She was one of our speakers last year.

00:09:52.220 She did an amazing job. 0.97

00:09:53.560 She was also there all day listening to the teaching and worshiping alongside all of you.

00:09:59.300 And she said something about this conference that I loved.

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00:10:08.640 And man, that is true.

00:10:10.620 This is not the conference for women who want to be coddled. 1.00

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00:10:52.860 I loved that an attendee last year said, I walked out of there with zero fear of man.

00:10:59.980 That is exactly what we want all of our attendees to feel.

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00:11:24.800 Francesca Batticelli is back with us this year, Grammy Award winning artist to lead us in worship.

00:11:30.740 And this year is brought to you by our friends at Good Rancher.

00:11:34.020 So go to sharethearrows.com.

00:11:36.640 Get your tickets today, VIP tickets.

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00:12:04.420 That's sharethearrows.com.

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00:13:00.020 Allie.

00:13:00.080 Allie.

00:13:00.140 Allie.

00:13:00.580 Allie.

00:13:01.080 Allie.

00:13:02.080 Allie.

00:13:02.140 Allie.

00:13:03.080 Allie.

00:13:03.540 A lot of people might not know the names and the terms that you listed earlier.

00:13:10.480 The Frankfurt School, Angela Davis, Marcuse.

00:13:14.080 Now, we have talked about those people many times, especially back in 2020, when so many people were like,

00:13:20.900 what is the ideology underneath so much of what is happening?

00:13:25.180 But not everyone was tuning in then, and not everyone may remember.

00:13:29.400 So can you tell us, like, what is the Frankfurt School and the school of thought that is Marxism that you're saying deeply affected MLK's ideology?

00:13:41.580 That's a really good question.

00:13:43.320 So the Frankfurt School, to answer your first question, these were professors out of Germany who fled Germany in the 1940s, and they were accepted by administrators at the University of Columbia in New York.

00:13:59.660 There were a lot of pro-Marxist moves that were being made at Columbia.

00:14:06.340 I mean, you had Union Theological Seminary Seminary there, where they were already teaching their seminary students with a very Marxist bent that was reminiscent of the kinds of teachings that you would get from Walter Rauschenbusch, who was a so-called theologian out of Hell's Kitchen, New York,

00:14:28.540 who basically visited England in the late 1800s, and was enamored of the tactics of what was called the Fabian Society.

00:14:40.940 Now, the Fabian Society is interesting because these were intellectuals and elitists who shared the sentiments of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels.

00:14:51.860 They envisioned a communist world.

00:14:54.260 They differed, however, from Marx insofar that where Marx wanted a sudden uprising, a revolution, the workers of the world unite, the Fabian Society, on the other hand, saw a slow, kind of incremental, kind of gradual entering into a Marxist utopia.

00:15:14.900 They saw that it would take time by first taking hold of the institutions.

00:15:20.560 And the reason they saw it this way is because they didn't see a revolution as sustainable.

00:15:26.040 With a revolution, if you were to capture the institutions by way of a sudden uprising, there's still tradition and there's still a kind of hegemony that exists across the land that people will grow tired and they will –

00:15:46.560 you will have a counter-revolution and you'll just have a lot of unrest and dysfunction.

00:15:51.620 Too much, too fast.

00:15:52.820 Too much, too fast.

00:15:54.020 Whereas if you go this slow, gradual, incremental way, you can slowly change the mind of a generation, which will then change the mind of the next generation and the next generation.

00:16:03.740 It'll last a lot longer.

00:16:04.640 Right.

00:16:04.980 So the people who were the Fabian types were the more patient.

00:16:08.220 You know, they understood that, well, we might not get there in my generation, but my grandchildren will get to enjoy socialism.

00:16:13.120 So basically, the Frankfurt School, which you said came out of Germany, left Germany in the 1940s, fled to America, got into academia here.

00:16:23.260 They took the ideas of Marx, but the tactics of the Fabian society, right?

00:16:28.380 That's correct.

00:16:28.620 So the ideas of Marx, for people who don't know, it's basically communism.

00:16:33.060 It's this idea that the proletariat, right, the common person, the working person is being oppressed by the bourgeoisie or the elites and that capitalism is evil.

00:16:46.940 And that, as you said, the workers of the world have to unite against the elites.

00:16:52.740 But ultimately, it wasn't just about giving the proles power or the working person power.

00:16:59.140 It was about making sure that everyone was forced to be on the same plane as the lowest common denominator.

00:17:07.260 So no one would have private property, right?

00:17:10.200 You're not earning capital.

00:17:11.800 We hear that those kind of mantras today, you will own nothing and be happy.

00:17:17.320 And ironically, now it's the elites who have some of the many of the ideas that Marx held in the name of the oppressed.

00:17:25.460 But this idea of Marxism is not just applied economically today.

00:17:30.600 It's also applied culturally.

00:17:33.240 Yes.

00:17:33.580 And racially as well.

00:17:35.280 So I imagine that as the Frankfurt School kind of got its tentacles into different parts of academia, into seminaries, the idea of Marxism really evolved.

00:17:47.340 And it sounds like MLK was a big part of Christianizing Marxism and then kind of disseminating it to the masses.

00:17:58.840 Would that be accurate?

00:18:00.380 That's 100% accurate.

00:18:01.460 So his real name is Michael King.

00:18:05.000 His father's name is Michael King as well.

00:18:07.760 Now, what's interesting about that is that Michael King Sr. visited Germany shortly before the rise of Hitler.

00:18:14.920 And he was enamored of the story that he learned while in Germany of the theologian, the 16th century theologian Martin Luther.

00:18:23.340 In the same way that Marx was enamored of Martin Luther.

00:18:27.680 A lot of people don't know this.

00:18:29.780 What he what intrigued him about Martin Luther is that here's a man who revolutionized the church.

00:18:36.100 He took authority from the Catholic order and he vested that authority into the common man by way of the Reformation.

00:18:44.380 And it's interesting.

00:18:46.960 People should look at the writings of Karl Marx as it relates to Martin Luther.

00:18:50.980 And Karl Marx said not and I'm going to butcher this, but he says something to the effect of we're going to do the same thing as Martin Luther.

00:18:57.300 Only our revolution won't stop at the doors of church estates like our agenda to secularize everything.

00:19:05.860 And so Michael King Sr. would come later and he would be enamored of Martin Luther in the same way.

00:19:14.160 And he would come back to the United States and change his name to Martin Luther King because he saw himself as the America American version of Martin Luther King of Martin Luther.

00:19:24.140 And he wanted to revolutionize the American church into accepting the social gospel.

00:19:30.520 And so he changed his name to Martin Luther King Sr. and his son's name to Martin Luther King Jr.

00:19:36.560 But it would actually be his son who would go on to do exactly what you said in terms of using the church as a kind of hub for the dissemination of Marxist ideology.

00:19:48.340 Yeah. And I just want to say as a Protestant that I don't think the argument that you're making is that Martin Luther, the reformer, was doing something inherently wrong or evil in his reformation.

00:20:01.760 And I would say that this is so much of what Satan does is that he takes what a movement that God put forth and something that the Holy Spirit is doing and creates a counterfeit and creates a satanic movement that might mirror it in some ways, but ultimately has destructive ends.

00:20:22.100 And it sounds like you're saying that that's what happened here with MLK and his son.

00:20:26.600 Right. So, yeah, it was definitely a bastardization of what Martin Luther did.

00:20:30.520 And I think what Martin Luther did was was a good thing. 0.98

00:20:35.140 I think reformation was a needed thing.

00:20:37.640 But the blueprint, it all comes down to what Michael King Sr.

00:20:45.400 and Karl Marx interpreted as a blueprint for their own kind of revolution, if you will.

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00:22:25.840 Tell me more about the kind of education that MLK got that really solidified his kind of Marxist foundation.

00:22:41.300 Really good question.

00:22:41.900 So Michael King Sr. was a proponent of the social gospel.

00:22:48.080 It was something that he wrote about in his unpublished memoir.

00:22:50.840 And not only that, he would often go to these communist front organization events that were put on across the South by an organization called the National Negro Congress.

00:23:06.400 But there was another subsidiary of it called the Southern Negro Youth League or something like that.

00:23:13.700 And they would put on all these organizations in the South.

00:23:16.000 They would have Paul Robeson, who was a famous singer in those days, who was an avowed communist.

00:23:22.600 He would come and speak at these events.

00:23:25.080 And Michael King Sr. would go to these events along with older Ralph Abernathy and Rosa Parks and others.

00:23:33.660 And so am I saying that Michael King Sr. was a communist?

00:23:38.740 Not really.

00:23:39.480 I'm just saying that he was intrigued by a lot of the rhetoric that was being disseminated in those days, some of which he was preaching in his very own church, which Martin Luther King had a front row access to.

00:23:51.100 And sorry, but remind everyone what the social gospel is.

00:23:54.120 So the social gospel, which was popularized by Walter Rauschenbusch, is placing the onus on the state or the government to bring about equity by way of legislation and policies.

00:24:08.800 It's using tax dollars to feed the poor and to build houses and to take care of the marginalized.

00:24:18.000 That's where the emphasis is placed on with the social gospel, just put in a very elementary way.

00:24:22.760 Yes, but also it is the that is also what secular progressives believe politically.

00:24:29.580 But the social gospel specifically is saying that all of the things that you just listed, that that's the gospel.

00:24:36.280 Right.

00:24:36.560 That that's what Christians have to believe. 0.93

00:24:38.280 That's what Christians have to do.

00:24:39.400 It's less about denying yourself and more becoming a political activist for the advancement of those political goals.

00:24:45.180 Right.

00:24:45.620 Yeah, exactly.

00:24:46.360 And it's it's social justice with a Christian tinge. 0.59

00:24:51.600 And so that's why I call it the social justice gospel, because it's this when you look at the social justice and the fact that a lot of secular activists push it in the church, the black church, many black churches.

00:25:06.060 It's probably not fair to say the church, but in a lot of black churches, they push the so-called social gospel.

00:25:12.860 There's really no difference between social justice and the social gospel.

00:25:16.960 Right.

00:25:17.220 The only difference is that one of them is in the church and one of them isn't.

00:25:21.280 And so that's why, you know, I've synthesized them by calling them the social justice gospel.

00:25:25.880 But the reality of it is exactly what you just said.

00:25:29.120 It's just it's this idea of of God came not to save individual souls, but rather he came to bring utopia on earth by way of politics.

00:25:39.740 And so you have a lot of pastors, so-called pastors like Raphael Warnock, like there's too many to name.

00:25:50.040 But I was going to name William Barber, but you have all these so-called pastors who use the pulpit to stomp for political causes more so than to call people to repent and to put their faith in Christ and to follow him.

00:26:07.000 When you listen to someone like Raphael Warnock, for example, he never actually mentions the Bible without attaching it to some policy right now that's on the docket.

00:26:18.120 The same is true of Martin Luther King.

00:26:19.920 I listen to every second of every minute of every hour of every Martin Luther King sermon that's in existence and never once does he actually preach the gospel and call people to repentance.

00:26:30.060 Because he probably did not believe in it.

00:26:32.080 Right.

00:26:32.380 Exactly.

00:26:33.040 Exactly.

00:26:33.380 And so Michael King Sr. was a proponent of the social gospel.

00:26:38.580 King himself was enamored of this Marxist idea as he writes about in his own papers.

00:26:44.320 And so whenever he goes to Crozer Theological Seminary, what he learned there, as well as at Boston University, is how to, in a sense, mask his Marxism through Hegelian dialectics.

00:26:56.420 And what's that?

00:26:57.320 So Hegelian dialectics, to put it simply, is, I think the best explanation of it I've seen is by R.C. Sproul, who said that you have the synthesis, the way things are, and the antithesis, which is the rhetoric of the activists, the communists in this equation.

00:27:17.380 And so what King was doing was taking the thesis, the way things are, the way America was, and the antithesis, communist rhetoric, and then you have the synthesis.

00:27:28.420 You kind of solve the problem of those two tensions by kind of coming up with this way of acknowledging you're right about this and you're right about that.

00:27:37.680 And let's try to find a way to compromise and bring these ideas together in a way.

00:27:41.500 So that's Hegelian dialectics in a very basic way.

00:27:47.240 And so King was able to learn how to, in a sense, synthesize these two worldviews by coming off as a moderate, as someone who's trying to progress us forward.

00:27:59.800 Okay, so just to make sure that I understand, because I've never heard it explained like that, and it's just making a lot of things click for me.

00:28:06.740 So you have the thesis, right now, America is this constitutional republic, and maybe, you know, MLK at that point would have said, you know, it's segregated, black people are oppressed.

00:28:17.500 The antithesis would be how he wanted things to be.

00:28:20.420 So underneath it all, while he didn't say this at the time, maybe he wanted communism, he wanted Marxism, he thought that was the way forward.

00:28:27.480 But being the very strategic and smart person that he was, he knew he couldn't come out there and say, I'm for communism.

00:28:35.080 So he took the way things are, the way things, the way he wanted things to be, and then he synthesized them into this kind of American Christian package that he knew most people would have a very hard time in their American Christian consciousness arguing against, which is that we should judge people by the content of their character.

00:29:01.040 Our movement is a movement of peace and love.

00:29:05.540 So that's the tactic that he used to try to convince people that his movement was justified.

00:29:11.840 100%. And it didn't start with him.

00:29:13.400 I mean, it started, if you look at the writings of Earl Browder in the 1930s, he was the leader of the Communist Party, who was advocating for communists to infiltrate both Catholic and Protestant seminaries, as well as Catholic and Protestant churches.

00:29:26.940 When you look at Bella Dodd's book, she wrote a book called The School of Darkness, where she admits that she was a participant in assisting in the infiltration of seminaries and churches.

00:29:39.360 When you look at the writings of Fulton Sheen, the fact that Marxists were able to infiltrate the church is well documented.

00:29:48.240 There's a plethora of information out there that solidifies that.

00:29:53.600 And then King is part of that because of his training, both in his upbringing, as well as his formal education.

00:30:01.660 When you look at people like George Davis, who was one of his professors, who was a proponent of the social gospel, who basically taught King how to mask his Marxist sensibilities through the social gospel behind the pulpit.

00:30:15.640 And then, too, when you look at his denouncement of Marxism and of communism, this is interesting because any time I talk about King's infatuation with Marxism and communism, one of the biggest pushbacks I get is, well, he said he wasn't a communist, as if communists don't lie, for one.

00:30:38.640 But then, too, if you look at King's writings on denouncing communism and the reasons that he give, what you'll find is that they were not words that originated with him.

00:30:50.200 He plagiarized a theologian by the name of Robert J. McCracken, who wrote a book in 1951 called Questions People Ask.

00:30:58.340 And he writes about why communism is antithetical to the Christian faith.

00:31:04.460 And so rather than King coming up with his own idea of why he rejects communism, he simply plagiarized and lifted verbiage from Robert J. McCracken, which begs the question, at least for me, why not give your own words as to why, you know, if you detest communism so much, why not use your own words to say so?

00:31:21.460 Yeah. Why plagiarize someone else to explain it? And the reason the reason why he would do that is because Marxists are utilitarian.

00:31:30.180 And what this means is lying is just a tool in the bucket for them to.

00:31:35.340 Yeah. That's why we couldn't trust anything China said during COVID.

00:31:38.520 Exactly.

00:31:39.000 They don't have the same ideas about integrity or honesty for the sake of honesty.

00:31:43.460 It's more what is going to get me to the goal that I want.

00:31:46.520 Right. And I think I think the nail in the coffin on it is when you look at when you look at all the times King was asked, well, are there communists in your movement?

00:31:56.500 He would always say no, which was interesting because his number one handler was a man by the name of Stanley Levison, who was a financier for the communists here in America.

00:32:08.240 You look at a lot of his speech writers, including Bayard Rustin, including Clarence Jones, Ella Baker and others, all of whom were either Marxist or were part of the Communist Party at some degree and at some point, including James Baldwin, who admitted in a interview with Nikki Giovanni that he was part of the Communist Party when he was 19 and 20 years old.

00:32:33.420 And not only that, when you look at the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, which was the organization that King was a president of, this was started with the advice of Stanley Levison.

00:32:44.860 And not only that, he recruited a man by the name of James Jackson, who was an active member of the Communist Party.

00:32:55.080 And James Jackson's role was to basically fill the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, to staff it with ministers.

00:33:03.760 All of these ministers came out of the Southern Negro Youth League or Southern Negro Youth Conference, which was a communist organization.

00:33:14.820 It was started with the help of Joseph Stalin and the Soviet Union.

00:33:18.240 And so King knew all of these things.

00:33:20.500 Like he knew that there was a direct line of communication between the Southern Christian Leadership Conference and the Soviet Union.

00:33:26.820 But he denied having anything to do with communism when the press would ask him about it.

00:33:34.080 The idea, once again, was to come off as someone who's moderate, someone who's just a minister, who's tired of being oppressed and mistreated by white Southerners.

00:33:46.860 And to influence the passing of legislation that would stand to expand the role of the federal government at the expense of states' rights.

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00:35:04.500 So that was his real goal is what your argument is, that the oppression conversation was really his vehicle just to give the government more power for the purpose of establishing what he thought was a just system, which is communism, which is Marxism.

00:35:30.160 So is your argument that it really had nothing to do with race for him at the heart of it?

00:35:35.680 It didn't have anything to do with race.

00:35:38.200 It had everything to do with the expansion of, well, it had everything to do with the ushering in of Marxist ideology into the United States.

00:35:47.060 This is a very complex thing, but I'll try my best to explain it.

00:35:49.920 So when it comes to the civil rights movement, the civil rights movement was not this organic grassroots thing that started.

00:35:56.480 It was started by the federal government dating as far back as the Reconstruction era, shortly after the war between the states.

00:36:02.440 You had something called carpetbaggers and scallywags that were really kind of imposing on the South, treating Southerners not like co-equal sovereign citizens, but rather as conquered people in a conquered territory.

00:36:18.460 And you had these radicals that were in Congress, many of whom were actually pen pals with Marx and Engels that were really kind of imposing and trying to expand and broaden government authority, federal government authority on the South.

00:36:33.720 So that's phase one of the civil rights movement.

00:36:35.900 Engels, for those who don't know, is another communist from abroad.

00:36:40.300 And so this is during the 1800s.

00:36:42.620 Again, for those who don't know, this is, yes, this is when Marx was coming to prominence.

00:36:47.740 And there was a lot happening in the world, in the Industrial Revolution, that made Marx's and Engels ideas popular.

00:36:55.620 Because, I mean, there was a lot of stomping the worker at the time, no workers' rights and things like that, especially in Europe.

00:37:03.800 And so not a justification for Marx, but you could see why he became popular at the time.

00:37:08.280 So you're saying Marx and Engels had a direct relationship with some members of Congress that were representing some northern states in America who were treating the South after the Civil War as conquered people.

00:37:22.800 As conquered people.

00:37:23.280 Can you give me some examples of that?

00:37:25.300 Because I've never heard that before.

00:37:26.880 Yeah.

00:37:27.100 So many of the white Southerners were disenfranchised on the one hand, while a lot of the Negro people,

00:37:38.280 citizens were enfranchised.

00:37:40.540 And this is where you get a lot of black representatives in Congress as a result of who could and couldn't vote. 0.76

00:37:48.200 When you look at some of the amendments of the Constitution, a lot of them were pushed through very nefarious means, first and foremost by disenfranchising white Southerners as treasonous traitors and things of this nature.

00:38:07.320 There's a whole bevy of rules and regulations and policies that were being pushed and being motivated by what they called radical Republicans in Congress.

00:38:23.160 And this is this for me is not to get too sidetracked is why it's one of the many reasons why I'm a nonpartisan, because the fact of the matter is when you look in the history and you see that Republicans were the ones who were infiltrated by the Marxists in the 1800s.

00:38:41.200 By the time you get into the 1900s, it actually became the Democrats who were infiltrated by the communists.

00:38:47.080 I mean, if you look at Robert Lafollette, you know, he was a senator.

00:38:51.160 He was basically the 20th century version of of Bernie Sanders, but he was a Republican.

00:38:56.900 And so the parties, they kind of go through these ebbs and flows.

00:39:00.120 And for me, it's not a question of whether the party switched.

00:39:02.840 It's more a question of to what degree was this party or that party infiltrated by these nefarious forces?

00:39:08.920 OK, I have a question.

00:39:10.600 Maybe maybe it'll lead us in a radical direction or maybe not.

00:39:15.500 So Republicans in the 1800s are also, I mean, led by Lincoln or the party of the abolition of slavery.

00:39:24.040 Right.

00:39:24.880 Are you saying like Marxism had any effect on the abolition of slavery in the United States or no?

00:39:30.900 Well, it's a mixed bag.

00:39:32.100 You had genuine Protestant Christians who were influenced by no.

00:39:38.600 Wilberforce.

00:39:39.100 Yeah.

00:39:39.600 So these were men who I think were noble in their pursuits who wanted for the abolition of slavery.

00:39:47.020 But you also had individuals whose agenda was not as noble.

00:39:54.620 There's a book called Letters to Americans.

00:39:56.440 And in this book, what it basically is, is correspondence between Marx and Engels and American congressmen and war generals, where you have Marx and Engels trying to coach these generals on how best to get in on the South and how best to get them to bend to your will and things of this nature.

00:40:16.740 And they're literally talking about getting a foothold in America, Marx and Engels.

00:40:22.040 And when it comes to Abraham Lincoln, Abraham Lincoln was infatuated by Karl Marx.

00:40:31.760 I mean, infatuated may be...

00:40:33.040 I did not know this.

00:40:34.300 Sorry?

00:40:34.760 I did not know this.

00:40:35.720 Yeah.

00:40:36.060 This is new information.

00:40:36.980 Infatuated may be a strong word, but he took a liking to some of the writings of Karl Marx.

00:40:42.000 Because you have to understand, Karl Marx was writing for the New York Daily Tribune, an American newspaper.

00:40:48.260 And, you know, Lincoln would routinely read his articles.

00:40:55.000 And when you look at people like Thaddeus Stevens and others who were in Congress, they too were enamored of some of the things that Marx were writing.

00:41:04.160 And so am I saying that this push for abolition was led by the Marxists?

00:41:11.420 I'm not.

00:41:12.180 But what I am saying is that they were instrumental in some of the things that were going on, specifically popularizing this notion that the war between the states had only to do with slavery, when in reality, it had to do more with states' rights.

00:41:27.820 It had to do more with this fact that Southerners believed that the North were not keeping true to their promises that they made during the ratification of the Constitution.

00:41:43.520 This goes all the way back to the founding of our country.

00:41:46.160 When you look at the Federalists versus the Anti-Federalists, the Federalists being led by people like Alexander Hamilton, and on the other side of it, you get people like, you know, Patrick Henry, Luther Martin, Robert Yates, and others, who likened this push to have this big overarching federal government to the Tower of Babel.

00:42:12.460 They said, you can't take a diverse country of people and give them the ability to opine on how to build this big, monstrous government out of it.

00:42:24.260 You have to have states' rights.

00:42:25.980 You have to have the authority of the church.

00:42:28.120 You have to have individual liberty.

00:42:30.260 To the extent that you try to supersede all of that and the building of a large government, you will have problems.

00:42:35.460 And so it's because of the Anti-Federalists that you got the Bill of Rights, because they wanted to limit the reach of the government.

00:42:43.200 They saw by the mid-1800s the North reneging on some of the promises that they made, and it was for that reason that they seceded from the Union.

00:42:53.420 You did have some individuals who made it about slavery in the South, but it wasn't a widespread consensus.

00:43:01.900 In fact, the president of the Confederate States, Jefferson Davis, did not believe that slavery, this is according to his own writings, did not believe that slavery should exist in perpetuity.

00:43:11.640 He just thought that the South should have the right to end slavery in the same fashion as the North did.

00:43:16.420 They knew that industrialization was on the rise.

00:43:20.440 They knew that labor was being replaced with machinery and things of this nature.

00:43:26.980 So for some of them, it was a matter of what made practical sense, and for others, it was a moral issue in the South.

00:43:34.900 But it wasn't this thing where all of these Southerners believed that slavery should exist in perpetuity.

00:43:41.840 That that's not a real thing.

00:43:42.840 And so to get back to your original question, phase one of the civil rights movement was Reconstruction.

00:43:50.520 Phase two would have been in the 1930s under what was called the National Negro Congress, which was started after a committee started by FDR.

00:44:00.680 The feds had an interest in using a civil rights kind of movement in order to destabilize the states, to make the states appear as though they're incapable of self-governance, to agitate in the streets, and to capitalize on that fallout. 0.99

00:44:18.900 That was the purpose of the feds being involved.

00:44:23.240 But why? Why would they want to do that?

00:44:24.300 To expand their authority, to expand their power at the expense of the states.

00:44:28.560 Did they see the South as just an impediment to that?

00:44:32.800 Yeah, because you have to understand, like culturally, the South has always been about just being independent and being free.

00:44:44.120 When you look at Jamestown, for example, when the settlers landed in Jamestown, they had something like a communist or Marxist system where they compiled the grain.

00:44:57.760 It was from each according to their ability to each according to their need kind of system.

00:45:02.520 But voluntary, right?

00:45:04.020 Voluntary, yes.

00:45:04.660 But this is a system that they had in Jamestown.

00:45:07.060 They had a similar system in Plymouth, the Plymouth Colony.

00:45:10.040 And what was interesting about that is so abysmal was a system that within two years, half the population died and they were eating shoelaces and rats.

00:45:23.080 And so the famous John Smith scrapped that system and he implemented a new system of private property, quoting the biblical ethic that if a man will not work, he will not eat.

00:45:35.180 Yeah.

00:45:35.580 And, you know, when it comes to the Plymouth Colony, Governor William Bradford did likewise.

00:45:42.080 And so by the time you get to the mid-1800s, I'm sorry, the early, the late 1700s, these lessons were still in the minds of the founding fathers.

00:45:51.440 And so they weren't creating a socialist country.

00:45:54.120 Yeah.

00:45:54.360 They were creating a country of checks and balances that basically respected human nature, this freedom of association that's important because you're taking, for most of human history, when you look at the nations across the world, these were homogenous nations.

00:46:13.820 But what you're now trying to do is have a nation with people from Scotland, England, you know, I mean, Ireland, you have all these different people and different sects as well.

00:46:24.340 And you're trying to build a diverse nation.

00:46:27.660 You have to respect human nature.

00:46:29.800 You have to respect self-segregation.

00:46:33.900 Because in the same way that it is bad to have laws on the books that impose segregation, it is also equally as bad to have laws on the books that force, that force integration.

00:46:46.300 Force integration.

00:46:47.240 Yeah.

00:46:47.680 And so, you know, what's the happy medium?

00:46:49.920 And for this reason, because everybody has an opinion, the best thing you could possibly do is uphold the sovereignty of the states, the townships, and the family.

00:47:02.020 Freedom of association.

00:47:02.840 Freedom of association.

00:47:08.620 Okay, y'all, you've heard of mom brain. 0.54

00:47:11.200 And mom brain means that you are thinking of so many things, like your brain, your energy is so occupied by all of the tasks and responsibilities that you have that sometimes you're like, oh my gosh, am I losing it?

00:47:24.840 My memory is fading.

00:47:26.040 I don't feel as smart as I used to.

00:47:28.580 Well, the truth is we really do have to exercise our brain just like any other muscle.

00:47:33.640 It's important to make sure that you are continuing to read, that you're continuing to learn.

00:47:38.760 And Hillsdale College makes that really easy.

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00:47:52.460 They actually care about critical thinking.

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00:48:48.760 Okay, so people are tracking with you, and they're like, okay, so there were some nefarious people involved in all of these so-called justice movements in the United States going back a very long time.

00:49:05.760 And it really had to do for some people, not everyone, but some people with the consolidation of the power of the federal government in the aim of equity.

00:49:15.280 So the same social justice goals that we have today, everyone has to be equal, same amount of property, same amount of stuff.

00:49:21.320 So it sounds like bad actors used the actual, the true injustice of slavery and the true injustice of segregation and oppression that was happening in different places in the United States as a vehicle to create more government power.

00:49:36.840 But I could see some people saying, okay, but who cares?

00:49:41.140 Because ultimately it was good that we abolished slavery.

00:49:44.200 Ultimately, it was good that we did away with Jim Crow laws. 0.56

00:49:48.180 Ultimately, it was good that we ended segregation, and ultimately the civil rights were good.

00:49:54.160 Maybe we don't like all the people involved.

00:49:56.300 Maybe we don't know all the motivations.

00:49:58.180 But, I mean, ultimately, wasn't it a good thing for black people? 0.89

00:50:02.920 Wasn't it morally right for the government to battle against the Southerners who were clearly still racist against black people?

00:50:10.880 You asked really good questions.

00:50:13.660 So that is a really good question.

00:50:16.020 So, and I'll answer it.

00:50:18.240 But first, I think, just to finish the thought about the whole government interest in civil rights, you had both the feds and you had the communists who were interested in the civil rights movement.

00:50:32.520 Under FDR, you had the starting of the National Negro Congress, which would later become the civil rights movement in the 1960s, led by Dr. King.

00:50:41.940 When it was the National Negro Congress, it was led by A. Philip Randolph, who was a labor activist.

00:50:47.660 And it was started with the help of the Soviet Union, of Joseph Stalin and the Soviet Union.

00:50:52.180 So you had the feds and you had the Soviet Union, who had an interest in starting the National Negro Congress.

00:50:57.260 And you had little kind of brother and sister organizations that were scattered throughout the North and the South, which was doing a lot of agitative things all across the country.

00:51:14.200 Again, in order to bring attention to what it was they were trying to do in terms of expanding the role of the government, because by the time you have centralized power, you're nice and primed for communist agenda and communist takeover.

00:51:30.580 So you you had some tension between the feds and the communists, namely in terms of who should lead this movement, which we'll probably get to later on.

00:51:42.160 But when it comes to blacks in America, Thomas Sowell writes extensively about this.

00:51:46.540 When you look at the work of people like Roland J. Fryer, G. Fryer and others, they all cover this very extensively.

00:51:53.900 We're at where you have this kind of upper trajectory, this trending upward of blacks in America as it relates to family formation, entrepreneurship, home ownership, the whole nine from the end of slavery till the 1950s, irrespective of Jim Crow and a lot of these black codes laws that were on the books. 0.58

00:52:17.480 And not only that, to the extent that you had a lot of these these laws that were on the books and these regulations and ordinances, they were being repealed at the local and private level well before King ever even came onto the scene.

00:52:31.780 This is called reformation.

00:52:33.780 And reformation works, as I said earlier, because it's sustainable through the reformative process.

00:52:39.200 Thus, you have character building at work and that character building is what sustains the new kind of order of things.

00:52:47.640 And that was already happening before the big civil rights movement of the 50s and 60s, you're saying.

00:52:52.380 Exactly.

00:52:53.000 And so I think it is it's it's simply wrong to credit King or the Civil Rights Act of 1964 for the ending of Jim Crow.

00:53:01.600 So Jim Crow is already falling off the books as a result of this kind of plan that was put into action by the likes of Booker T. Washington.

00:53:09.880 Yeah.

00:53:10.460 And you're kind of saying a similar I don't want to go back to slavery because we're going back and forth and I want to keep moving forward with the civil rights.

00:53:17.160 But it's it's a similar argument, it seems like, to what you're making about slavery that, look, slavery was already on its way to becoming irrelevant at the time because of industrialization and maybe also the moral revolution happening in the hearts of men.

00:53:32.060 Right.

00:53:33.320 And so it sounds like you're saying in both instances, while there might have been good people in both movements, some people use it as a power grab to disenfranchise the self.

00:53:43.440 100%.

00:53:43.880 And it's a very exploitative thing.

00:53:46.160 And not only that, when it comes to a lot of the grievances that necessitated the civil rights movement, a lot of people's minds, some of them were genuine, many of them were genuine, but a lot of them were also hoaxes.

00:54:00.140 Like what?

00:54:01.300 For example, are you familiar with Carl Brayden?

00:54:04.720 So Carl Brayden was an activist.

00:54:07.380 He was a white Jewish kind of activist who was very, you know, into the civil rights movement, into like a lot of agitated things that was going on.

00:54:20.980 He and his wife and Brayden bought a house in Kentucky, Louisville, Kentucky, for a Negro party member and then drew attention to the fact that a Negro just moved into this all-white neighborhood.

00:54:34.280 And then shortly thereafter, the house gets bombed.

00:54:38.420 And everybody believes that Carl Brayden was the one who ignited the bomb.

00:54:45.280 And so he gets arrested and he gets convicted for sedition or something like that.

00:54:50.800 And what was interesting is he would later go on to work alongside Dr. Martin Luther King and the civil rights movement.

00:54:59.720 And what's interesting about that is that throughout the civil rights movement under King's leadership, you had all these church bombings that were going on and these house bombings.

00:55:08.420 And as it turns out, a lot of these church bombings were actual Negro ministers who were bombing their own churches. 0.69

00:55:15.340 And you're saying that's what that Brayden person did, that it seems that he bombed the house that he bought for this black member of the Negro Congress.

00:55:27.640 Well, so he was just a local party member.

00:55:31.220 Local party member.

00:55:31.860 So he did that to make it seem like.

00:55:34.840 Yeah, white supremacy.

00:55:36.080 Yeah. 0.90

00:55:36.560 White supremacy.

00:55:36.980 And that, I mean, there's a lot of questions to ask about different instances that we've seen.

00:55:41.740 Yeah, the idea is to, again, is to basically embarrass America as being this kind of hotbed for racism and dysfunction. 0.86

00:55:55.100 Embarrass white people, embarrass the South. 0.98

00:55:57.420 Embarrass the South, right. 0.99

00:55:59.500 So that the public will cry out for federal action.

00:56:03.180 We'll cry out for something to be done about this injustice.

00:56:07.660 And there were some things that were happening that were real injustices.

00:56:12.580 There was real race tension going on in some respects.

00:56:15.700 I mean, I would say Emmett Till is an example of something that was completely heinous that took place.

00:56:21.960 But there was also a lot of stuff that was concocted and manufactured.

00:56:27.900 Yeah.

00:56:28.040 When you look at the Second Congress of the Communist International, 1921, there was a white journalist by the name of John Reed.

00:56:37.740 And he was a delegate to this, to the Communist Convention there in Moscow.

00:56:43.840 And what was interesting is they were trying to figure out the best way to infiltrate Marxism into the United States.

00:56:51.880 And John Reed got up and said, the Negro.

00:56:53.920 The Negro is the way to infiltrate Marxism into the United States. 0.99

00:56:57.700 He said, as it stands now, and again, this is 1920, 1921. 0.75

00:57:01.440 He said, as it stands now, there is no political conscience that the Negro has.

00:57:07.180 We have to raise a consciousness, the political consciousness of the American Negro.

00:57:11.380 That's close to what LBJ said when he signed the Civil Rights Act into law.

00:57:18.820 Pretty much.

00:57:19.700 Basically, that we're going to create a Democrat out of the black person out of this legislation. 0.76

00:57:26.480 So, same idea.

00:57:27.340 Same idea.

00:57:28.360 And so, what was interesting is after John Reed said this, Vladimir Lenin himself greenlit using whatever means necessary to raise the political consciousness of the American Negro.

00:57:38.800 And over the course of the 1920s, you began to see race riots spring up seemingly out of nowhere.

00:57:44.980 We talk about the Tulsa Race Massacre, which for the longest time, it wasn't called a massacre.

00:57:51.020 It was called a riot, the Tulsa Race Riot, where you had this brawl that broke out because of a newspaper article titled,

00:57:58.780 Nab Negro for Attacking Girl on Elevator. 1.00

00:58:01.420 Well, as it turns out, that article was written by a fellow traveler.

00:58:06.220 A fellow traveler is somebody who's sympathetic of the Marxist cause.

00:58:11.200 That's what a travel traveler is.

00:58:12.760 Right.

00:58:13.020 An ally.

00:58:13.480 There you go.

00:58:14.420 So, his name was Richard Lloyd-Jones.

00:58:17.820 He was the owner of a newspaper called the Tulsa Tribune.

00:58:21.460 And so, he's the one that ran this article in order to rile up race tensions in the—they're in Tulsa.

00:58:29.480 Now, what's interesting about that is that my mom's side of the family is from Oklahoma, right?

00:58:33.680 So, I grew up hearing about the Tulsa Race Riots and all these things.

00:58:37.540 And I always was a bit puzzled by it because we were told that the reason why there was a riot was because the white people in Tulsa were jealous of the Negroes for having this great business district.

00:58:53.340 They had the best part of land there in Tulsa. 0.68

00:58:55.480 And they wanted to do this riot in order to steal the land from the Negroes. 1.00

00:58:59.680 This is what I was always told.

00:59:02.420 But what's interesting about that is after the riot, black folks still lived there in Tulsa in this Greenwood district.

00:59:10.540 They still have businesses in the Greenwood district.

00:59:12.180 In fact, it wasn't called Black Wall Street until after the race riot took place.

00:59:16.760 And, in fact, if you look at video footage, archival video footage that was shot by Sir Solomon Jones, and you look at the movie boards or the word boards for the footage, you see Tulsa, Oklahoma, 1923.

00:59:33.680 Tulsa, Oklahoma, 1925, the Greenwood district.

00:59:36.300 You see blacks conducting business as usual. 1.00

00:59:38.980 You see these very beautifully constructed houses and businesses and things of this nature.

00:59:46.220 And, in fact, I looked into this myself.

00:59:49.200 White people actually assisted in helping blacks build this community back up.

00:59:53.600 And so my question was, if it's true that whites were so jealous and they wanted to take this land, why didn't they seize upon the opportunity to do that in 1921 after everything happened? 0.68

01:00:04.660 The reason, once again, was to destabilize and to try to chase blacks out of using the means of production to make their way. 0.99

01:00:16.480 What I mean by that is the communists, they detested capitalism, which I don't really like using that word, but that's neither here nor there.

01:00:25.800 But they detested using the free market system to make their own way.

01:00:31.460 They would rather the Negro join ranks with them, lock arms with them, and the pushing for a new revolution, a new system. 0.95

01:00:39.180 And so if I'm Joe the shoe store owner in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and I'm able to pay my bills and serve my family with my shoe store, but then I wake up one day and my shoe store is burned down, what then shall I do?

01:00:52.760 The idea is to chase me into the arms of the NAACP or the Communist Party, which, by the way, there were numerous ads ran after this to join the Communist Party, to join the NAACP.

01:01:06.520 You'll have a fighter on your side.

01:01:08.080 You'll have somebody in your corner to help against white supremacy and racism and all the things.

01:01:13.240 But really, when you look at the footage, you see whites and blacks really getting along.

01:01:17.240 You know what I mean?

01:01:18.860 But at the same time, you did have a lot of sensationalism in those days. 0.94

01:01:22.760 Specifically of blacks who were being accused of raping white women and things of this nature.

01:01:28.320 And so because of this, you had this agenda to invoke reactionaryism in whites to keep race tensions alive, to keep race wounds open, when the reality is these tensions were already being healed well before the 1920s and MLK when these things happened.

01:01:50.840 Exploiting people's empathy for progressive means.

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01:03:07.940 Go to preborn.com slash Allie, make that donation, rescue the next generation. 1.00

01:03:16.020 That's preborn.com slash Allie. 0.81

01:03:23.580 MLK, people say at least he was peaceful.

01:03:28.340 Was he peaceful?

01:03:29.580 Absolutely not.

01:03:30.860 Absolutely not.

01:03:31.580 That was how the press covered him, which is interesting because when it comes back to Stanley Levison, who was a kind of de facto PR person for King, he told the press when to show up, where to show up, what will be happening, when to roll the cameras.

01:03:50.360 Told King where to be, when to be there, what to do in terms of creating, in terms of creating the dramatization that was needed to destabilize the South or to make them come off as, as just these racist hotbeds.

01:04:07.000 And what was interesting about that too, is they would strategically pick the places where they would demonstrate.

01:04:10.940 It wasn't as if like racism was widespread in the South.

01:04:14.440 They specifically chose places because they understood that they had a better chance of getting things captured on camera versus just going any old where in the South.

01:04:25.240 They specifically chose Birmingham.

01:04:27.520 They specifically chose Montgomery.

01:04:29.060 They specifically chose these places because they knew the kind of picturesque imagery that they would get.

01:04:36.880 Which is interesting because when you look at Birmingham and Montgomery, there was communist activity going on as early as the 1910s.

01:04:47.440 This is documented in Robert G. Kelly's book, Hammer and Ho, who documents, I mean, he's a leftist, he's a Marxist.

01:04:55.260 But even he admits in this book, Hammer and Ho, that, yeah, communist activity was going on.

01:04:59.300 And that's important to note because there was this long kind of standing Hatfield and McCoy-esque, like tit-for-tat kind of friction that was going on in these places. 0.95

01:05:12.300 So by the time you get to the 1960s, it appears as though, oh, they just hate Negroes.

01:05:18.140 It wasn't that, it wasn't that at all. 0.98

01:05:19.780 It was, we don't like communists and a bunch of these Negroes are communists. 1.00

01:05:23.060 And so that's really what it, what it was.

01:05:25.400 There's a lot of, there's a lot of backstory that the media just ignores.

01:05:29.900 And so when it comes to King and your question as to whether he was a peaceful man or not, he went around saying that he was nonviolent, but he would rely on violence to push his movement forward.

01:05:43.460 An example of this.

01:05:44.300 That's all communists do.

01:05:45.040 Right.

01:05:45.260 That's all they do.

01:05:45.860 An example of this is that they went into Birmingham, Alabama, and they were kind of traversing the country, the South, trying to pull, pull this off and other counties and other towns, but they were unsuccessful in doing it.

01:06:00.420 But they wanted to get the kids out of school and get images of dogs and hoses being turned on kids.

01:06:08.380 They tried to do this in Albany, Georgia, but they weren't successful because the police chief there in Albany knew what they were up to.

01:06:16.100 He studied their tactics.

01:06:17.760 He studied their, what they were doing.

01:06:20.400 And he said, look, King and his contingent, they're going to come into Albany and they're going to try to do their demonstrating and all this.

01:06:27.980 And we're going to have to arrest them because they're not pulling permits.

01:06:31.760 They're not going through the proper means to do their demonstrations.

01:06:34.640 In this country, we have a First Amendment right to freedom of speech.

01:06:38.020 However, we are also a country of law and order.

01:06:40.140 We still have to control for traffic, for noise, and all the things.

01:06:43.500 So you have to pull a permit to make sure that you have protection to do your demonstration.

01:06:48.500 We're not going to infringe on your right to free speech.

01:06:51.860 But King's contingent, they didn't pull the permits, they didn't go through the proper channels because they wanted to invite violence against themselves to get it caught on camera.

01:06:59.700 It's the same thing that BLM happens.

01:07:01.080 Exactly.

01:07:01.380 I mean, it does today.

01:07:02.620 Exactly.

01:07:03.220 Exactly.

01:07:03.740 So they went into Albany.

01:07:04.840 The police chief knew what they were doing.

01:07:06.320 So what he did was he said, once these jails fill up, we have no choice but to use means to disperse the crowd, which includes the dogs, which includes the hoses.

01:07:17.480 We don't want to do that.

01:07:18.540 So what we're going to do is we're going to go to the neighboring towns, let them know that King's coming in, and ask them to make space in their jails.

01:07:26.240 So once our jail is full of capacity, we can start sending them to the other jails.

01:07:31.440 Do it as quietly and as peacefully as possible to not give them those photo opportunities.

01:07:39.380 Exactly.

01:07:39.960 Those photo ops.

01:07:41.560 And so they were unsuccessful in Albany, and so they went to Birmingham.

01:07:45.360 Um, apparently Bull Connor didn't get the message.

01:07:49.300 Yeah.

01:07:50.000 Uh, because once those jails filled up, they had to turn dogs in the hoses. 0.85

01:07:54.960 And when that happened.

01:07:56.220 And that's where we got all the iconic pictures.

01:07:57.760 There were the iconic pictures and images.

01:07:59.960 And it worked like a charm.

01:08:02.180 Yeah.

01:08:02.440 Uh, shortly thereafter, John F. Kennedy, who, who had already had, um, civil rights legislation ready to go.

01:08:10.720 The reason why he didn't introduce it was because there was a debate going on in Congress over states' rights versus federal authority.

01:08:18.380 And this debate that was being had was a robust, uh, debate where there was weight on both sides.

01:08:26.300 And so once this Children's March thing happened, and once the pictures spread, not all, not only all over the country, but all over the world, it made those who were arguing for states' rights look like a joke, quite frankly.

01:08:40.160 Like, how do you not get behind this legislation now?

01:08:42.320 Um, and so once he introduced that legislation, that was, it was it from there.

01:08:46.600 Yeah.

01:08:47.180 And, um, there was a lot of negativity that came out of that legislation.

01:08:50.780 And, of course, when LBJ got in there, he was even kind of more ripe for the taking, I would say, because he just kind of had these proclivities already.

01:09:00.180 Yeah.

01:09:00.460 And we don't have time to get into MLJ.

01:09:02.400 I really only have time for one more question.

01:09:06.080 Um, we played the trailer for your docuseries at the beginning in the introduction.

01:09:12.320 And Carol Swain said that if MLK believed that we should judge people by the content of their character and not the color of their skin, can we judge MLK by the content of his character?

01:09:26.840 What was the content of MLK's character?

01:09:30.060 Actually very sad.

01:09:31.140 I mean, the Bible gives us very, the Bible gives us very clear instructions on who is fit to be a leader.

01:09:40.440 And King didn't fit that at all.

01:09:42.320 Um, he wasn't faithful to his wife.

01:09:45.240 In fact, most cities that he went into, he would sleep with some woman that wasn't his wife. 0.78

01:09:51.780 Um, he was a participant in many orgies. 0.99

01:09:54.680 Um, he was a compulsive liar. 0.88

01:09:57.320 Um, he would often lie about his involvement with communism or, uh, he, the thing about King is,

01:10:08.520 it's interesting because whenever we set out to make this docuseries, we made it a point not to touch any of that.

01:10:15.920 We didn't want to touch any of the philandering.

01:10:17.980 We didn't want to touch any of the orgies or anything else that he was involved in.

01:10:20.980 Uh, we wanted to focus on the communism.

01:10:23.140 We wanted to focus on the fact that he didn't believe the gospel because we didn't want the docuseries to be dismissed as just another sensational piece, another clickbait thing.

01:10:34.580 But the reality of it is, you know, what Carol, what Carol Swain said is, is, is just absolutely true.

01:10:40.880 You have to touch on, um, this aspect of who he was because it begs the question of, is this somebody who fits the moniker of the moral leader of the 20th century?

01:10:52.340 Well, if you have evangelicals creating conferences after him called the MLK 50 conference, then I do think it is justified to say, okay, we're, we are Christians naming conferences after a person.

01:11:06.900 Maybe we should ask if that person was a Christian.

01:11:09.340 Right.

01:11:09.660 And the Bible says to test every spirit to see if it's of God.

01:11:12.260 And we did a very poor job of that with Martin Luther King.

01:11:15.120 We just did.

01:11:16.160 We just did.

01:11:16.860 I mean, and it was right there in front of our faces.

01:11:18.900 Because it's unpopular.

01:11:19.500 You know, there's almost no incentive to question MLK, especially as a white Southern person, because you know, the accusation you're going to get.

01:11:29.580 But do you think, and we really do have to wrap, but do you think that now after 2020, after BLM has been exposed as a scam, after the race Marxism that was, you know, attempted to be pushed during that time has kind of fallen flat?

01:11:44.580 I think a lot of people have woken up.

01:11:45.900 Do you think more people are willing to examine the civil rights era in MLK?

01:11:51.300 I think more people are willing.

01:11:53.380 I mean, when I look at my own platform and I look at the emails that I get on a daily basis, a lot of people are waking up.

01:12:00.620 A lot of people are being reminded of things that were told to them by their parents and grandparents when they were kids concerning King.

01:12:07.580 A lot of people from communist countries are emailing me saying, you know, everything that you're saying reminds me of this politician in Cuba or that politician in this country or that country.

01:12:20.500 And I think more people are receptive.

01:12:23.820 And what's interesting about all this, Sally, is that one of the biggest questions I get, in fact, I got this question from a chapter leader for a Turning Point USA organization not that long ago, who said, you know, if more and more people come to terms with what you're saying about King and the civil rights movement, what then will we do?

01:12:49.140 Because King is the only person who unifies the left and the right.

01:12:55.120 If not for him, then we're going to be at each other's throat and we're going to.

01:12:58.820 And to me, I think that's a sad commentary on where we are, especially as a church, because why don't Christ occupy that place of unifying us?

01:13:08.480 Right.

01:13:09.100 And what's interesting, just to tie it back to the Tower of Babel, is that with the Tower of Babel, you have mankind under the ruler Nimrod trying to erect this tower into the heavens to usurp God.

01:13:23.720 And God comes down and divides the languages.

01:13:27.040 We all disperse and we become different peoples across the land.

01:13:30.920 But what's interesting about that is God gave us the way to unify and that's under Christ.

01:13:36.520 Yeah.

01:13:36.940 And he descends in the lowest place in Nazareth. 0.77

01:13:42.220 He becomes, he's born a baby into the world.

01:13:45.860 He puts on flesh.

01:13:47.420 He lives a perfect life, preaches a perfect message, is crucified, is dead.

01:13:53.700 He raises again in three days.

01:13:55.300 And then he ascends and in his ascension, he invites those of us who are willing to come to be ascended with him, you know what I mean, to enjoy paradise.

01:14:08.900 That is better than any utopia that we can build on the earth.

01:14:12.320 And what King is doing, what Stalin is doing, what Lenin is doing, what we're trying to do through the political process is build a heaven on earth.

01:14:20.660 We're trying to build our Tower of Babel 2.0 and it won't work.

01:14:24.200 And so I think it's for that reason that we begin to take people like King off this pedestal, not for the purpose of just being a truther per se, but for the purpose of edifying Christ, who is the only person, I think, who occupies that place.

01:14:40.420 Yeah, that's really good.

01:14:42.100 And where can people go to watch the docuseries?

01:14:45.260 It's not out yet, but where can they go to support you too?

01:14:48.800 ChadOJackson.com.

01:14:49.900 Okay, ChadOJackson.com.

01:14:52.220 Thank you, Chad, so much for taking the time.

01:14:54.520 Appreciate it.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - August 22, 2025

Ep 1233 ｜ Was MLK a Christian Hero？ Shocking Revelations Uncovered ｜ Chad O. Jackson

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