Chad Jackson is a researcher and filmmaker who is creating a docu-series about who MLK really was and how his ideology has captured the hearts and minds of many Christians to the church s peril. Here s the trailer for that series: Satwan: Our Leader of our Nation, our leader, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., was our leader. It s he who controls the narrative of the past, controls the policies of the present, and the conditions of the future. If Dr. King was about judging people by the content of their character, rather than the color of their skin, should we judge King by the character of his character? Buckle up.
00:00:00.840What if everything you think you know about the civil rights movement and MLK is a lie?
00:00:08.960Today we've got Chad Jackson. He is a researcher and a filmmaker. He is creating a docu-series
00:00:15.240about who MLK really was and how his ideology has captured the hearts and minds of many
00:00:23.340Christians to the church's peril. Here is the trailer for that docu-series, Satwan.
00:00:30.000Our leader of our nation. Our leader, Dr. King. Our leader, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
00:00:35.440Dr. King was our leader. It's he who controls the narrative of the past, controls the policies of the present and the conditions of the future.
00:00:44.020If Dr. King was about judging people by the content of their character rather than the color of their skin,
00:00:55.500should we judge King by the content of his character?
00:00:58.720Dr. King, it's been alleged that you have been slow to sever your ties with alleged communists.
00:01:04.120Stanley Levson, yeah, he's always in his ear.
00:01:06.380I mean, he wrote everything that MLK said publicly.
00:02:56.120I kind of grew tired of it just because of the fact that I didn't really see it going anywhere.
00:03:00.880And then, two, my plumbing company was really taking off.
00:03:03.800We were really getting a lot of business.
00:03:05.920And around this time, Justin Malone, who is a Dallas-based filmmaker, set out to make his film Uncle Tom.
00:03:13.280And he reached out to me because he heard about me through the Dallas County Republican Party.
00:03:18.900And at the time, I wasn't really active.
00:03:20.940And so I reluctantly agreed to sit down with him and be interviewed.
00:03:26.000And I say reluctantly because I really wasn't sure what they were trying to do, whether they were trying to do a kind of gotcha film about black conservatives or whatever the case may be.
00:03:52.660He wanted to become an executive producer for what would become Uncle Tom and was able to connect Justin with people like Candace Owens, Alan West, Brandon Tatum, and others.
00:04:02.780And that's how we ended up getting Uncle Tom, which was released in 2020.
00:04:07.120And so after the success of that film, they asked me to come back because I'm an independent researcher as well and do the research and the producing for what would ultimately become Uncle Tom Part 2, which was released in 2022.
00:04:21.920So that, I think, is how I kind of got the platform that I have.
00:04:25.160And so with that, I was able to take a lot of the research that I'm doing and go out on my own and do my own independent thing as far as making docuseries and videos and things of that nature.
00:04:39.700And you started looking into MLK and the civil rights era when?
00:04:45.580So I started looking into that in around 2019.
00:04:50.420Well, I think for me, it was kind of a course correction, quite frankly.
00:04:56.800Having gone to public school, learning about Dr. King every January and every Black History Month, learning that he was this great hero, learning that the civil rights movement was a high point for America.
00:05:10.060I believe that King was the kind of, he was the quintessential race unifier, if you will.
00:05:21.700And as I grew up and began to do my own research, because let me rewind just quite a bit.
00:05:29.060So whenever we were doing the research for Uncle Tom Part 2, we were looking into cultural Marxism, ideological subversion, and infiltration, Marxist infiltration into the church.
00:05:42.360We were looking into these things because we knew that there was something there.
00:05:46.160These are things that I've been researching since high school.
00:05:48.200But I always separated King from being a part of that.
00:05:59.180I knew about people like Angela Davis, who was mentored by Herbert Marcuse, who was of the Frankfurt School.
00:06:06.160But even though King had proximity to all these people, I always felt the need to separate him from those things because it's a no-brainer.
00:06:17.040We all believe he's a hero, regardless of if you're on the left or the right of the political spectrum.
00:06:21.160But the more that we were challenging ourselves in Uncle Tom Part 2 to really kind of get underneath the layers and see what was going on, it just kept coming back.
00:06:34.600And we had to follow the thread in a truthful way because it wasn't about being a commercial success.
00:06:43.540It was more about getting to the bottom of things, really.
00:06:46.620And really what we wanted to do with Uncle Tom Part 2, which was different than Part 1, is where Part 1 was more focused on Black Conservatism 101, Part 2 wanted to take the audience deeper, wanted to basically say, come along with us as we reveal real American history as it pertains to Black Americans.
00:07:07.360And so with King, it was just a big disappointment to find out the things that we ended up finding out about him in terms of the fact that he wasn't a real Christian.
00:07:19.800He didn't believe in the deity of Christ.
00:07:22.020He didn't believe in the virgin birth.
00:07:23.900He didn't believe that Jesus rose from the dead.
00:07:27.000He didn't believe in the literal existence of heaven and hell.
00:07:29.380He didn't believe that Jesus was going to come again.
00:07:31.180He basically didn't believe in the basic fundamental tenets of the Christian faith.
00:07:35.300And you found this out through his own words, correct?
00:07:40.300I mean, there's seven volumes, and there's plenty more from where this comes from at the Stanford Library.
00:07:45.960But, you know, his papers, if you read those papers, you'll find that, you know, by his own admission, he rejected the deity of Christ as early as the age of 12.
00:07:56.080He said that he shocked his Sunday school class by rejecting the virgin birth and the resurrection.
00:08:14.560And as he was writing as an adult, he was saying, and yet he was almost proud of that, saying, wow, I was a revolutionary against Christianity from a very early age.
00:09:04.400He had a front row seat to his pastor's cadence and the pacing of his preaching and his oratory skills.
00:09:11.080And King picked up on that quite easily.
00:09:13.680And so he was convinced to go into the ministry and to go to Crozer Theological Seminary, which by the time King went there, already had a lot of Marxist professors.
00:09:28.540Those who were Marxists and those who were just proponents of the so-called social gospel.
00:09:32.220And King was able to take that teaching in, make it his own, and it would be the launching pad of his career.
00:10:30.420But if you are looking to be trained in apologetics, if you are looking to get deep in theology, if you are looking to hear really hard truths that are grounded in scripture,
00:10:40.220if you want to be challenged and encouraged and edified and spurred on as a mom, as a single woman, as a grandmother, no matter what stage of womanhood you are in, then come to Share the Arrows.
00:10:52.860I loved that an attendee last year said, I walked out of there with zero fear of man.
00:10:59.980That is exactly what we want all of our attendees to feel.
00:13:14.080Now, we have talked about those people many times, especially back in 2020, when so many people were like,
00:13:20.900what is the ideology underneath so much of what is happening?
00:13:25.180But not everyone was tuning in then, and not everyone may remember.
00:13:29.400So can you tell us, like, what is the Frankfurt School and the school of thought that is Marxism that you're saying deeply affected MLK's ideology?
00:13:43.320So the Frankfurt School, to answer your first question, these were professors out of Germany who fled Germany in the 1940s, and they were accepted by administrators at the University of Columbia in New York.
00:13:59.660There were a lot of pro-Marxist moves that were being made at Columbia.
00:14:06.340I mean, you had Union Theological Seminary Seminary there, where they were already teaching their seminary students with a very Marxist bent that was reminiscent of the kinds of teachings that you would get from Walter Rauschenbusch, who was a so-called theologian out of Hell's Kitchen, New York,
00:14:28.540who basically visited England in the late 1800s, and was enamored of the tactics of what was called the Fabian Society.
00:14:40.940Now, the Fabian Society is interesting because these were intellectuals and elitists who shared the sentiments of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels.
00:14:54.260They differed, however, from Marx insofar that where Marx wanted a sudden uprising, a revolution, the workers of the world unite, the Fabian Society, on the other hand, saw a slow, kind of incremental, kind of gradual entering into a Marxist utopia.
00:15:14.900They saw that it would take time by first taking hold of the institutions.
00:15:20.560And the reason they saw it this way is because they didn't see a revolution as sustainable.
00:15:26.040With a revolution, if you were to capture the institutions by way of a sudden uprising, there's still tradition and there's still a kind of hegemony that exists across the land that people will grow tired and they will –
00:15:46.560you will have a counter-revolution and you'll just have a lot of unrest and dysfunction.
00:15:54.020Whereas if you go this slow, gradual, incremental way, you can slowly change the mind of a generation, which will then change the mind of the next generation and the next generation.
00:16:04.980So the people who were the Fabian types were the more patient.
00:16:08.220You know, they understood that, well, we might not get there in my generation, but my grandchildren will get to enjoy socialism.
00:16:13.120So basically, the Frankfurt School, which you said came out of Germany, left Germany in the 1940s, fled to America, got into academia here.
00:16:23.260They took the ideas of Marx, but the tactics of the Fabian society, right?
00:16:28.620So the ideas of Marx, for people who don't know, it's basically communism.
00:16:33.060It's this idea that the proletariat, right, the common person, the working person is being oppressed by the bourgeoisie or the elites and that capitalism is evil.
00:16:46.940And that, as you said, the workers of the world have to unite against the elites.
00:16:52.740But ultimately, it wasn't just about giving the proles power or the working person power.
00:16:59.140It was about making sure that everyone was forced to be on the same plane as the lowest common denominator.
00:17:07.260So no one would have private property, right?
00:17:35.280So I imagine that as the Frankfurt School kind of got its tentacles into different parts of academia, into seminaries, the idea of Marxism really evolved.
00:17:47.340And it sounds like MLK was a big part of Christianizing Marxism and then kind of disseminating it to the masses.
00:18:46.960People should look at the writings of Karl Marx as it relates to Martin Luther.
00:18:50.980And Karl Marx said not and I'm going to butcher this, but he says something to the effect of we're going to do the same thing as Martin Luther.
00:18:57.300Only our revolution won't stop at the doors of church estates like our agenda to secularize everything.
00:19:05.860And so Michael King Sr. would come later and he would be enamored of Martin Luther in the same way.
00:19:14.160And he would come back to the United States and change his name to Martin Luther King because he saw himself as the America American version of Martin Luther King of Martin Luther.
00:19:24.140And he wanted to revolutionize the American church into accepting the social gospel.
00:19:30.520And so he changed his name to Martin Luther King Sr. and his son's name to Martin Luther King Jr.
00:19:36.560But it would actually be his son who would go on to do exactly what you said in terms of using the church as a kind of hub for the dissemination of Marxist ideology.
00:19:48.340Yeah. And I just want to say as a Protestant that I don't think the argument that you're making is that Martin Luther, the reformer, was doing something inherently wrong or evil in his reformation.
00:20:01.760And I would say that this is so much of what Satan does is that he takes what a movement that God put forth and something that the Holy Spirit is doing and creates a counterfeit and creates a satanic movement that might mirror it in some ways, but ultimately has destructive ends.
00:20:22.100And it sounds like you're saying that that's what happened here with MLK and his son.
00:20:26.600Right. So, yeah, it was definitely a bastardization of what Martin Luther did.
00:20:30.520And I think what Martin Luther did was was a good thing.
00:20:35.140I think reformation was a needed thing.
00:20:37.640But the blueprint, it all comes down to what Michael King Sr.
00:20:45.400and Karl Marx interpreted as a blueprint for their own kind of revolution, if you will.
00:22:41.900So Michael King Sr. was a proponent of the social gospel.
00:22:48.080It was something that he wrote about in his unpublished memoir.
00:22:50.840And not only that, he would often go to these communist front organization events that were put on across the South by an organization called the National Negro Congress.
00:23:06.400But there was another subsidiary of it called the Southern Negro Youth League or something like that.
00:23:13.700And they would put on all these organizations in the South.
00:23:16.000They would have Paul Robeson, who was a famous singer in those days, who was an avowed communist.
00:23:22.600He would come and speak at these events.
00:23:25.080And Michael King Sr. would go to these events along with older Ralph Abernathy and Rosa Parks and others.
00:23:33.660And so am I saying that Michael King Sr. was a communist?
00:23:39.480I'm just saying that he was intrigued by a lot of the rhetoric that was being disseminated in those days, some of which he was preaching in his very own church, which Martin Luther King had a front row access to.
00:23:51.100And sorry, but remind everyone what the social gospel is.
00:23:54.120So the social gospel, which was popularized by Walter Rauschenbusch, is placing the onus on the state or the government to bring about equity by way of legislation and policies.
00:24:08.800It's using tax dollars to feed the poor and to build houses and to take care of the marginalized.
00:24:18.000That's where the emphasis is placed on with the social gospel, just put in a very elementary way.
00:24:22.760Yes, but also it is the that is also what secular progressives believe politically.
00:24:29.580But the social gospel specifically is saying that all of the things that you just listed, that that's the gospel.
00:24:46.360And it's it's social justice with a Christian tinge.
00:24:51.600And so that's why I call it the social justice gospel, because it's this when you look at the social justice and the fact that a lot of secular activists push it in the church, the black church, many black churches.
00:25:06.060It's probably not fair to say the church, but in a lot of black churches, they push the so-called social gospel.
00:25:12.860There's really no difference between social justice and the social gospel.
00:25:17.220The only difference is that one of them is in the church and one of them isn't.
00:25:21.280And so that's why, you know, I've synthesized them by calling them the social justice gospel.
00:25:25.880But the reality of it is exactly what you just said.
00:25:29.120It's just it's this idea of of God came not to save individual souls, but rather he came to bring utopia on earth by way of politics.
00:25:39.740And so you have a lot of pastors, so-called pastors like Raphael Warnock, like there's too many to name.
00:25:50.040But I was going to name William Barber, but you have all these so-called pastors who use the pulpit to stomp for political causes more so than to call people to repent and to put their faith in Christ and to follow him.
00:26:07.000When you listen to someone like Raphael Warnock, for example, he never actually mentions the Bible without attaching it to some policy right now that's on the docket.
00:26:18.120The same is true of Martin Luther King.
00:26:19.920I listen to every second of every minute of every hour of every Martin Luther King sermon that's in existence and never once does he actually preach the gospel and call people to repentance.
00:26:30.060Because he probably did not believe in it.
00:26:33.380And so Michael King Sr. was a proponent of the social gospel.
00:26:38.580King himself was enamored of this Marxist idea as he writes about in his own papers.
00:26:44.320And so whenever he goes to Crozer Theological Seminary, what he learned there, as well as at Boston University, is how to, in a sense, mask his Marxism through Hegelian dialectics.
00:26:57.320So Hegelian dialectics, to put it simply, is, I think the best explanation of it I've seen is by R.C. Sproul, who said that you have the synthesis, the way things are, and the antithesis, which is the rhetoric of the activists, the communists in this equation.
00:27:17.380And so what King was doing was taking the thesis, the way things are, the way America was, and the antithesis, communist rhetoric, and then you have the synthesis.
00:27:28.420You kind of solve the problem of those two tensions by kind of coming up with this way of acknowledging you're right about this and you're right about that.
00:27:37.680And let's try to find a way to compromise and bring these ideas together in a way.
00:27:41.500So that's Hegelian dialectics in a very basic way.
00:27:47.240And so King was able to learn how to, in a sense, synthesize these two worldviews by coming off as a moderate, as someone who's trying to progress us forward.
00:27:59.800Okay, so just to make sure that I understand, because I've never heard it explained like that, and it's just making a lot of things click for me.
00:28:06.740So you have the thesis, right now, America is this constitutional republic, and maybe, you know, MLK at that point would have said, you know, it's segregated, black people are oppressed.
00:28:17.500The antithesis would be how he wanted things to be.
00:28:20.420So underneath it all, while he didn't say this at the time, maybe he wanted communism, he wanted Marxism, he thought that was the way forward.
00:28:27.480But being the very strategic and smart person that he was, he knew he couldn't come out there and say, I'm for communism.
00:28:35.080So he took the way things are, the way things, the way he wanted things to be, and then he synthesized them into this kind of American Christian package that he knew most people would have a very hard time in their American Christian consciousness arguing against, which is that we should judge people by the content of their character.
00:29:01.040Our movement is a movement of peace and love.
00:29:05.540So that's the tactic that he used to try to convince people that his movement was justified.
00:29:13.400I mean, it started, if you look at the writings of Earl Browder in the 1930s, he was the leader of the Communist Party, who was advocating for communists to infiltrate both Catholic and Protestant seminaries, as well as Catholic and Protestant churches.
00:29:26.940When you look at Bella Dodd's book, she wrote a book called The School of Darkness, where she admits that she was a participant in assisting in the infiltration of seminaries and churches.
00:29:39.360When you look at the writings of Fulton Sheen, the fact that Marxists were able to infiltrate the church is well documented.
00:29:48.240There's a plethora of information out there that solidifies that.
00:29:53.600And then King is part of that because of his training, both in his upbringing, as well as his formal education.
00:30:01.660When you look at people like George Davis, who was one of his professors, who was a proponent of the social gospel, who basically taught King how to mask his Marxist sensibilities through the social gospel behind the pulpit.
00:30:15.640And then, too, when you look at his denouncement of Marxism and of communism, this is interesting because any time I talk about King's infatuation with Marxism and communism, one of the biggest pushbacks I get is, well, he said he wasn't a communist, as if communists don't lie, for one.
00:30:38.640But then, too, if you look at King's writings on denouncing communism and the reasons that he give, what you'll find is that they were not words that originated with him.
00:30:50.200He plagiarized a theologian by the name of Robert J. McCracken, who wrote a book in 1951 called Questions People Ask.
00:30:58.340And he writes about why communism is antithetical to the Christian faith.
00:31:04.460And so rather than King coming up with his own idea of why he rejects communism, he simply plagiarized and lifted verbiage from Robert J. McCracken, which begs the question, at least for me, why not give your own words as to why, you know, if you detest communism so much, why not use your own words to say so?
00:31:21.460Yeah. Why plagiarize someone else to explain it? And the reason the reason why he would do that is because Marxists are utilitarian.
00:31:30.180And what this means is lying is just a tool in the bucket for them to.
00:31:35.340Yeah. That's why we couldn't trust anything China said during COVID.
00:31:39.000They don't have the same ideas about integrity or honesty for the sake of honesty.
00:31:43.460It's more what is going to get me to the goal that I want.
00:31:46.520Right. And I think I think the nail in the coffin on it is when you look at when you look at all the times King was asked, well, are there communists in your movement?
00:31:56.500He would always say no, which was interesting because his number one handler was a man by the name of Stanley Levison, who was a financier for the communists here in America.
00:32:08.240You look at a lot of his speech writers, including Bayard Rustin, including Clarence Jones, Ella Baker and others, all of whom were either Marxist or were part of the Communist Party at some degree and at some point, including James Baldwin, who admitted in a interview with Nikki Giovanni that he was part of the Communist Party when he was 19 and 20 years old.
00:32:33.420And not only that, when you look at the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, which was the organization that King was a president of, this was started with the advice of Stanley Levison.
00:32:44.860And not only that, he recruited a man by the name of James Jackson, who was an active member of the Communist Party.
00:32:55.080And James Jackson's role was to basically fill the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, to staff it with ministers.
00:33:03.760All of these ministers came out of the Southern Negro Youth League or Southern Negro Youth Conference, which was a communist organization.
00:33:14.820It was started with the help of Joseph Stalin and the Soviet Union.
00:33:20.500Like he knew that there was a direct line of communication between the Southern Christian Leadership Conference and the Soviet Union.
00:33:26.820But he denied having anything to do with communism when the press would ask him about it.
00:33:34.080The idea, once again, was to come off as someone who's moderate, someone who's just a minister, who's tired of being oppressed and mistreated by white Southerners.
00:33:46.860And to influence the passing of legislation that would stand to expand the role of the federal government at the expense of states' rights.
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00:35:04.500So that was his real goal is what your argument is, that the oppression conversation was really his vehicle just to give the government more power for the purpose of establishing what he thought was a just system, which is communism, which is Marxism.
00:35:30.160So is your argument that it really had nothing to do with race for him at the heart of it?
00:35:35.680It didn't have anything to do with race.
00:35:38.200It had everything to do with the expansion of, well, it had everything to do with the ushering in of Marxist ideology into the United States.
00:35:47.060This is a very complex thing, but I'll try my best to explain it.
00:35:49.920So when it comes to the civil rights movement, the civil rights movement was not this organic grassroots thing that started.
00:35:56.480It was started by the federal government dating as far back as the Reconstruction era, shortly after the war between the states.
00:36:02.440You had something called carpetbaggers and scallywags that were really kind of imposing on the South, treating Southerners not like co-equal sovereign citizens, but rather as conquered people in a conquered territory.
00:36:18.460And you had these radicals that were in Congress, many of whom were actually pen pals with Marx and Engels that were really kind of imposing and trying to expand and broaden government authority, federal government authority on the South.
00:36:33.720So that's phase one of the civil rights movement.
00:36:35.900Engels, for those who don't know, is another communist from abroad.
00:36:42.620Again, for those who don't know, this is, yes, this is when Marx was coming to prominence.
00:36:47.740And there was a lot happening in the world, in the Industrial Revolution, that made Marx's and Engels ideas popular.
00:36:55.620Because, I mean, there was a lot of stomping the worker at the time, no workers' rights and things like that, especially in Europe.
00:37:03.800And so not a justification for Marx, but you could see why he became popular at the time.
00:37:08.280So you're saying Marx and Engels had a direct relationship with some members of Congress that were representing some northern states in America who were treating the South after the Civil War as conquered people.
00:37:40.540And this is where you get a lot of black representatives in Congress as a result of who could and couldn't vote.
00:37:48.200When you look at some of the amendments of the Constitution, a lot of them were pushed through very nefarious means, first and foremost by disenfranchising white Southerners as treasonous traitors and things of this nature.
00:38:07.320There's a whole bevy of rules and regulations and policies that were being pushed and being motivated by what they called radical Republicans in Congress.
00:38:23.160And this is this for me is not to get too sidetracked is why it's one of the many reasons why I'm a nonpartisan, because the fact of the matter is when you look in the history and you see that Republicans were the ones who were infiltrated by the Marxists in the 1800s.
00:38:41.200By the time you get into the 1900s, it actually became the Democrats who were infiltrated by the communists.
00:38:47.080I mean, if you look at Robert Lafollette, you know, he was a senator.
00:38:51.160He was basically the 20th century version of of Bernie Sanders, but he was a Republican.
00:38:56.900And so the parties, they kind of go through these ebbs and flows.
00:39:00.120And for me, it's not a question of whether the party switched.
00:39:02.840It's more a question of to what degree was this party or that party infiltrated by these nefarious forces?
00:39:39.600So these were men who I think were noble in their pursuits who wanted for the abolition of slavery.
00:39:47.020But you also had individuals whose agenda was not as noble.
00:39:54.620There's a book called Letters to Americans.
00:39:56.440And in this book, what it basically is, is correspondence between Marx and Engels and American congressmen and war generals, where you have Marx and Engels trying to coach these generals on how best to get in on the South and how best to get them to bend to your will and things of this nature.
00:40:16.740And they're literally talking about getting a foothold in America, Marx and Engels.
00:40:22.040And when it comes to Abraham Lincoln, Abraham Lincoln was infatuated by Karl Marx.
00:40:36.980Infatuated may be a strong word, but he took a liking to some of the writings of Karl Marx.
00:40:42.000Because you have to understand, Karl Marx was writing for the New York Daily Tribune, an American newspaper.
00:40:48.260And, you know, Lincoln would routinely read his articles.
00:40:55.000And when you look at people like Thaddeus Stevens and others who were in Congress, they too were enamored of some of the things that Marx were writing.
00:41:04.160And so am I saying that this push for abolition was led by the Marxists?
00:41:12.180But what I am saying is that they were instrumental in some of the things that were going on, specifically popularizing this notion that the war between the states had only to do with slavery, when in reality, it had to do more with states' rights.
00:41:27.820It had to do more with this fact that Southerners believed that the North were not keeping true to their promises that they made during the ratification of the Constitution.
00:41:43.520This goes all the way back to the founding of our country.
00:41:46.160When you look at the Federalists versus the Anti-Federalists, the Federalists being led by people like Alexander Hamilton, and on the other side of it, you get people like, you know, Patrick Henry, Luther Martin, Robert Yates, and others, who likened this push to have this big overarching federal government to the Tower of Babel.
00:42:12.460They said, you can't take a diverse country of people and give them the ability to opine on how to build this big, monstrous government out of it.
00:42:30.260To the extent that you try to supersede all of that and the building of a large government, you will have problems.
00:42:35.460And so it's because of the Anti-Federalists that you got the Bill of Rights, because they wanted to limit the reach of the government.
00:42:43.200They saw by the mid-1800s the North reneging on some of the promises that they made, and it was for that reason that they seceded from the Union.
00:42:53.420You did have some individuals who made it about slavery in the South, but it wasn't a widespread consensus.
00:43:01.900In fact, the president of the Confederate States, Jefferson Davis, did not believe that slavery, this is according to his own writings, did not believe that slavery should exist in perpetuity.
00:43:11.640He just thought that the South should have the right to end slavery in the same fashion as the North did.
00:43:16.420They knew that industrialization was on the rise.
00:43:20.440They knew that labor was being replaced with machinery and things of this nature.
00:43:26.980So for some of them, it was a matter of what made practical sense, and for others, it was a moral issue in the South.
00:43:34.900But it wasn't this thing where all of these Southerners believed that slavery should exist in perpetuity.
00:43:42.840And so to get back to your original question, phase one of the civil rights movement was Reconstruction.
00:43:50.520Phase two would have been in the 1930s under what was called the National Negro Congress, which was started after a committee started by FDR.
00:44:00.680The feds had an interest in using a civil rights kind of movement in order to destabilize the states, to make the states appear as though they're incapable of self-governance, to agitate in the streets, and to capitalize on that fallout.
00:44:18.900That was the purpose of the feds being involved.
00:44:23.240But why? Why would they want to do that?
00:44:24.300To expand their authority, to expand their power at the expense of the states.
00:44:28.560Did they see the South as just an impediment to that?
00:44:32.800Yeah, because you have to understand, like culturally, the South has always been about just being independent and being free.
00:44:44.120When you look at Jamestown, for example, when the settlers landed in Jamestown, they had something like a communist or Marxist system where they compiled the grain.
00:44:57.760It was from each according to their ability to each according to their need kind of system.
00:45:04.660But this is a system that they had in Jamestown.
00:45:07.060They had a similar system in Plymouth, the Plymouth Colony.
00:45:10.040And what was interesting about that is so abysmal was a system that within two years, half the population died and they were eating shoelaces and rats.
00:45:23.080And so the famous John Smith scrapped that system and he implemented a new system of private property, quoting the biblical ethic that if a man will not work, he will not eat.
00:45:35.580And, you know, when it comes to the Plymouth Colony, Governor William Bradford did likewise.
00:45:42.080And so by the time you get to the mid-1800s, I'm sorry, the early, the late 1700s, these lessons were still in the minds of the founding fathers.
00:45:51.440And so they weren't creating a socialist country.
00:45:54.360They were creating a country of checks and balances that basically respected human nature, this freedom of association that's important because you're taking, for most of human history, when you look at the nations across the world, these were homogenous nations.
00:46:13.820But what you're now trying to do is have a nation with people from Scotland, England, you know, I mean, Ireland, you have all these different people and different sects as well.
00:46:24.340And you're trying to build a diverse nation.
00:46:33.900Because in the same way that it is bad to have laws on the books that impose segregation, it is also equally as bad to have laws on the books that force, that force integration.
00:46:47.680And so, you know, what's the happy medium?
00:46:49.920And for this reason, because everybody has an opinion, the best thing you could possibly do is uphold the sovereignty of the states, the townships, and the family.
00:47:08.620Okay, y'all, you've heard of mom brain.
00:47:11.200And mom brain means that you are thinking of so many things, like your brain, your energy is so occupied by all of the tasks and responsibilities that you have that sometimes you're like, oh my gosh, am I losing it?
00:47:28.580Well, the truth is we really do have to exercise our brain just like any other muscle.
00:47:33.640It's important to make sure that you are continuing to read, that you're continuing to learn.
00:47:38.760And Hillsdale College makes that really easy.
00:47:42.080Unlike other universities across the country that are basically just communist propaganda, indoctrination institutions, Hillsdale actually cares about the truth.
00:47:52.460They actually care about critical thinking.
00:47:54.780They actually care that their students know about the true foundations of America, the beauty of the Constitution.
00:48:02.080They help cultivate a biblical worldview in their students.
00:48:06.680And so this is not just for the high schoolers that are graduating and looking for an awesome university.
00:48:12.680This is for people like you and me who just want to make sure that we are growing in knowledge and wisdom.
00:48:18.340They offer all of these amazing courses, and so many of them are free.
00:48:24.20040 Hillsdale courses that you can access online are free.
00:48:28.740From classes on the Federalist Papers, the Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire, C.S. Lewis.
00:48:36.880I love C.S. Lewis, so that's fascinating.
00:48:39.580And all you have to do is go to hillsdale.edu slash relatable to enroll.
00:48:43.860There's no cost, and it's super easy to get started.
00:48:46.420Just go to hillsdale.edu slash relatable.
00:48:48.760Okay, so people are tracking with you, and they're like, okay, so there were some nefarious people involved in all of these so-called justice movements in the United States going back a very long time.
00:49:05.760And it really had to do for some people, not everyone, but some people with the consolidation of the power of the federal government in the aim of equity.
00:49:15.280So the same social justice goals that we have today, everyone has to be equal, same amount of property, same amount of stuff.
00:49:21.320So it sounds like bad actors used the actual, the true injustice of slavery and the true injustice of segregation and oppression that was happening in different places in the United States as a vehicle to create more government power.
00:49:36.840But I could see some people saying, okay, but who cares?
00:49:41.140Because ultimately it was good that we abolished slavery.
00:49:44.200Ultimately, it was good that we did away with Jim Crow laws.
00:49:48.180Ultimately, it was good that we ended segregation, and ultimately the civil rights were good.
00:49:54.160Maybe we don't like all the people involved.
00:49:56.300Maybe we don't know all the motivations.
00:49:58.180But, I mean, ultimately, wasn't it a good thing for black people?
00:50:02.920Wasn't it morally right for the government to battle against the Southerners who were clearly still racist against black people?
00:50:18.240But first, I think, just to finish the thought about the whole government interest in civil rights, you had both the feds and you had the communists who were interested in the civil rights movement.
00:50:32.520Under FDR, you had the starting of the National Negro Congress, which would later become the civil rights movement in the 1960s, led by Dr. King.
00:50:41.940When it was the National Negro Congress, it was led by A. Philip Randolph, who was a labor activist.
00:50:47.660And it was started with the help of the Soviet Union, of Joseph Stalin and the Soviet Union.
00:50:52.180So you had the feds and you had the Soviet Union, who had an interest in starting the National Negro Congress.
00:50:57.260And you had little kind of brother and sister organizations that were scattered throughout the North and the South, which was doing a lot of agitative things all across the country.
00:51:14.200Again, in order to bring attention to what it was they were trying to do in terms of expanding the role of the government, because by the time you have centralized power, you're nice and primed for communist agenda and communist takeover.
00:51:30.580So you you had some tension between the feds and the communists, namely in terms of who should lead this movement, which we'll probably get to later on.
00:51:42.160But when it comes to blacks in America, Thomas Sowell writes extensively about this.
00:51:46.540When you look at the work of people like Roland J. Fryer, G. Fryer and others, they all cover this very extensively.
00:51:53.900We're at where you have this kind of upper trajectory, this trending upward of blacks in America as it relates to family formation, entrepreneurship, home ownership, the whole nine from the end of slavery till the 1950s, irrespective of Jim Crow and a lot of these black codes laws that were on the books.
00:52:17.480And not only that, to the extent that you had a lot of these these laws that were on the books and these regulations and ordinances, they were being repealed at the local and private level well before King ever even came onto the scene.
00:52:53.000And so I think it is it's it's simply wrong to credit King or the Civil Rights Act of 1964 for the ending of Jim Crow.
00:53:01.600So Jim Crow is already falling off the books as a result of this kind of plan that was put into action by the likes of Booker T. Washington.
00:53:10.460And you're kind of saying a similar I don't want to go back to slavery because we're going back and forth and I want to keep moving forward with the civil rights.
00:53:17.160But it's it's a similar argument, it seems like, to what you're making about slavery that, look, slavery was already on its way to becoming irrelevant at the time because of industrialization and maybe also the moral revolution happening in the hearts of men.
00:53:33.320And so it sounds like you're saying in both instances, while there might have been good people in both movements, some people use it as a power grab to disenfranchise the self.
00:53:46.160And not only that, when it comes to a lot of the grievances that necessitated the civil rights movement, a lot of people's minds, some of them were genuine, many of them were genuine, but a lot of them were also hoaxes.
00:54:07.380He was a white Jewish kind of activist who was very, you know, into the civil rights movement, into like a lot of agitated things that was going on.
00:54:20.980He and his wife and Brayden bought a house in Kentucky, Louisville, Kentucky, for a Negro party member and then drew attention to the fact that a Negro just moved into this all-white neighborhood.
00:54:34.280And then shortly thereafter, the house gets bombed.
00:54:38.420And everybody believes that Carl Brayden was the one who ignited the bomb.
00:54:45.280And so he gets arrested and he gets convicted for sedition or something like that.
00:54:50.800And what was interesting is he would later go on to work alongside Dr. Martin Luther King and the civil rights movement.
00:54:59.720And what's interesting about that is that throughout the civil rights movement under King's leadership, you had all these church bombings that were going on and these house bombings.
00:55:08.420And as it turns out, a lot of these church bombings were actual Negro ministers who were bombing their own churches.
00:55:15.340And you're saying that's what that Brayden person did, that it seems that he bombed the house that he bought for this black member of the Negro Congress.
00:55:27.640Well, so he was just a local party member.
00:57:28.360And so, what was interesting is after John Reed said this, Vladimir Lenin himself greenlit using whatever means necessary to raise the political consciousness of the American Negro.
00:57:38.800And over the course of the 1920s, you began to see race riots spring up seemingly out of nowhere.
00:57:44.980We talk about the Tulsa Race Massacre, which for the longest time, it wasn't called a massacre.
00:57:51.020It was called a riot, the Tulsa Race Riot, where you had this brawl that broke out because of a newspaper article titled,
00:57:58.780Nab Negro for Attacking Girl on Elevator.
00:58:01.420Well, as it turns out, that article was written by a fellow traveler.
00:58:06.220A fellow traveler is somebody who's sympathetic of the Marxist cause.
00:58:17.820He was the owner of a newspaper called the Tulsa Tribune.
00:58:21.460And so, he's the one that ran this article in order to rile up race tensions in the—they're in Tulsa.
00:58:29.480Now, what's interesting about that is that my mom's side of the family is from Oklahoma, right?
00:58:33.680So, I grew up hearing about the Tulsa Race Riots and all these things.
00:58:37.540And I always was a bit puzzled by it because we were told that the reason why there was a riot was because the white people in Tulsa were jealous of the Negroes for having this great business district.
00:58:53.340They had the best part of land there in Tulsa.
00:58:55.480And they wanted to do this riot in order to steal the land from the Negroes.
00:59:02.420But what's interesting about that is after the riot, black folks still lived there in Tulsa in this Greenwood district.
00:59:10.540They still have businesses in the Greenwood district.
00:59:12.180In fact, it wasn't called Black Wall Street until after the race riot took place.
00:59:16.760And, in fact, if you look at video footage, archival video footage that was shot by Sir Solomon Jones, and you look at the movie boards or the word boards for the footage, you see Tulsa, Oklahoma, 1923.
00:59:33.680Tulsa, Oklahoma, 1925, the Greenwood district.
00:59:36.300You see blacks conducting business as usual.
00:59:38.980You see these very beautifully constructed houses and businesses and things of this nature.
00:59:46.220And, in fact, I looked into this myself.
00:59:49.200White people actually assisted in helping blacks build this community back up.
00:59:53.600And so my question was, if it's true that whites were so jealous and they wanted to take this land, why didn't they seize upon the opportunity to do that in 1921 after everything happened?
01:00:04.660The reason, once again, was to destabilize and to try to chase blacks out of using the means of production to make their way.
01:00:16.480What I mean by that is the communists, they detested capitalism, which I don't really like using that word, but that's neither here nor there.
01:00:25.800But they detested using the free market system to make their own way.
01:00:31.460They would rather the Negro join ranks with them, lock arms with them, and the pushing for a new revolution, a new system.
01:00:39.180And so if I'm Joe the shoe store owner in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and I'm able to pay my bills and serve my family with my shoe store, but then I wake up one day and my shoe store is burned down, what then shall I do?
01:00:52.760The idea is to chase me into the arms of the NAACP or the Communist Party, which, by the way, there were numerous ads ran after this to join the Communist Party, to join the NAACP.
01:01:18.860But at the same time, you did have a lot of sensationalism in those days.
01:01:22.760Specifically of blacks who were being accused of raping white women and things of this nature.
01:01:28.320And so because of this, you had this agenda to invoke reactionaryism in whites to keep race tensions alive, to keep race wounds open, when the reality is these tensions were already being healed well before the 1920s and MLK when these things happened.
01:01:50.840Exploiting people's empathy for progressive means.
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01:03:31.580That was how the press covered him, which is interesting because when it comes back to Stanley Levison, who was a kind of de facto PR person for King, he told the press when to show up, where to show up, what will be happening, when to roll the cameras.
01:03:50.360Told King where to be, when to be there, what to do in terms of creating, in terms of creating the dramatization that was needed to destabilize the South or to make them come off as, as just these racist hotbeds.
01:04:07.000And what was interesting about that too, is they would strategically pick the places where they would demonstrate.
01:04:10.940It wasn't as if like racism was widespread in the South.
01:04:14.440They specifically chose places because they understood that they had a better chance of getting things captured on camera versus just going any old where in the South.
01:04:29.060They specifically chose these places because they knew the kind of picturesque imagery that they would get.
01:04:36.880Which is interesting because when you look at Birmingham and Montgomery, there was communist activity going on as early as the 1910s.
01:04:47.440This is documented in Robert G. Kelly's book, Hammer and Ho, who documents, I mean, he's a leftist, he's a Marxist.
01:04:55.260But even he admits in this book, Hammer and Ho, that, yeah, communist activity was going on.
01:04:59.300And that's important to note because there was this long kind of standing Hatfield and McCoy-esque, like tit-for-tat kind of friction that was going on in these places.
01:05:12.300So by the time you get to the 1960s, it appears as though, oh, they just hate Negroes.
01:05:18.140It wasn't that, it wasn't that at all.
01:05:19.780It was, we don't like communists and a bunch of these Negroes are communists.
01:05:23.060And so that's really what it, what it was.
01:05:25.400There's a lot of, there's a lot of backstory that the media just ignores.
01:05:29.900And so when it comes to King and your question as to whether he was a peaceful man or not, he went around saying that he was nonviolent, but he would rely on violence to push his movement forward.
01:05:45.860An example of this is that they went into Birmingham, Alabama, and they were kind of traversing the country, the South, trying to pull, pull this off and other counties and other towns, but they were unsuccessful in doing it.
01:06:00.420But they wanted to get the kids out of school and get images of dogs and hoses being turned on kids.
01:06:08.380They tried to do this in Albany, Georgia, but they weren't successful because the police chief there in Albany knew what they were up to.
01:06:17.760He studied their, what they were doing.
01:06:20.400And he said, look, King and his contingent, they're going to come into Albany and they're going to try to do their demonstrating and all this.
01:06:27.980And we're going to have to arrest them because they're not pulling permits.
01:06:31.760They're not going through the proper means to do their demonstrations.
01:06:34.640In this country, we have a First Amendment right to freedom of speech.
01:06:38.020However, we are also a country of law and order.
01:06:40.140We still have to control for traffic, for noise, and all the things.
01:06:43.500So you have to pull a permit to make sure that you have protection to do your demonstration.
01:06:48.500We're not going to infringe on your right to free speech.
01:06:51.860But King's contingent, they didn't pull the permits, they didn't go through the proper channels because they wanted to invite violence against themselves to get it caught on camera.
01:07:04.840The police chief knew what they were doing.
01:07:06.320So what he did was he said, once these jails fill up, we have no choice but to use means to disperse the crowd, which includes the dogs, which includes the hoses.
01:07:18.540So what we're going to do is we're going to go to the neighboring towns, let them know that King's coming in, and ask them to make space in their jails.
01:07:26.240So once our jail is full of capacity, we can start sending them to the other jails.
01:07:31.440Do it as quietly and as peacefully as possible to not give them those photo opportunities.
01:08:02.440Uh, shortly thereafter, John F. Kennedy, who, who had already had, um, civil rights legislation ready to go.
01:08:10.720The reason why he didn't introduce it was because there was a debate going on in Congress over states' rights versus federal authority.
01:08:18.380And this debate that was being had was a robust, uh, debate where there was weight on both sides.
01:08:26.300And so once this Children's March thing happened, and once the pictures spread, not all, not only all over the country, but all over the world, it made those who were arguing for states' rights look like a joke, quite frankly.
01:08:40.160Like, how do you not get behind this legislation now?
01:08:42.320Um, and so once he introduced that legislation, that was, it was it from there.
01:08:47.180And, um, there was a lot of negativity that came out of that legislation.
01:08:50.780And, of course, when LBJ got in there, he was even kind of more ripe for the taking, I would say, because he just kind of had these proclivities already.
01:09:00.460And we don't have time to get into MLJ.
01:09:02.400I really only have time for one more question.
01:09:06.080Um, we played the trailer for your docuseries at the beginning in the introduction.
01:09:12.320And Carol Swain said that if MLK believed that we should judge people by the content of their character and not the color of their skin, can we judge MLK by the content of his character?
01:09:26.840What was the content of MLK's character?
01:09:57.320Um, he would often lie about his involvement with communism or, uh, he, the thing about King is,
01:10:08.520it's interesting because whenever we set out to make this docuseries, we made it a point not to touch any of that.
01:10:15.920We didn't want to touch any of the philandering.
01:10:17.980We didn't want to touch any of the orgies or anything else that he was involved in.
01:10:20.980Uh, we wanted to focus on the communism.
01:10:23.140We wanted to focus on the fact that he didn't believe the gospel because we didn't want the docuseries to be dismissed as just another sensational piece, another clickbait thing.
01:10:34.580But the reality of it is, you know, what Carol, what Carol Swain said is, is, is just absolutely true.
01:10:40.880You have to touch on, um, this aspect of who he was because it begs the question of, is this somebody who fits the moniker of the moral leader of the 20th century?
01:10:52.340Well, if you have evangelicals creating conferences after him called the MLK 50 conference, then I do think it is justified to say, okay, we're, we are Christians naming conferences after a person.
01:11:06.900Maybe we should ask if that person was a Christian.
01:11:19.500You know, there's almost no incentive to question MLK, especially as a white Southern person, because you know, the accusation you're going to get.
01:11:29.580But do you think, and we really do have to wrap, but do you think that now after 2020, after BLM has been exposed as a scam, after the race Marxism that was, you know, attempted to be pushed during that time has kind of fallen flat?
01:11:44.580I think a lot of people have woken up.
01:11:45.900Do you think more people are willing to examine the civil rights era in MLK?
01:11:53.380I mean, when I look at my own platform and I look at the emails that I get on a daily basis, a lot of people are waking up.
01:12:00.620A lot of people are being reminded of things that were told to them by their parents and grandparents when they were kids concerning King.
01:12:07.580A lot of people from communist countries are emailing me saying, you know, everything that you're saying reminds me of this politician in Cuba or that politician in this country or that country.
01:12:20.500And I think more people are receptive.
01:12:23.820And what's interesting about all this, Sally, is that one of the biggest questions I get, in fact, I got this question from a chapter leader for a Turning Point USA organization not that long ago, who said, you know, if more and more people come to terms with what you're saying about King and the civil rights movement, what then will we do?
01:12:49.140Because King is the only person who unifies the left and the right.
01:12:55.120If not for him, then we're going to be at each other's throat and we're going to.
01:12:58.820And to me, I think that's a sad commentary on where we are, especially as a church, because why don't Christ occupy that place of unifying us?
01:13:09.100And what's interesting, just to tie it back to the Tower of Babel, is that with the Tower of Babel, you have mankind under the ruler Nimrod trying to erect this tower into the heavens to usurp God.
01:13:23.720And God comes down and divides the languages.
01:13:27.040We all disperse and we become different peoples across the land.
01:13:30.920But what's interesting about that is God gave us the way to unify and that's under Christ.
01:13:55.300And then he ascends and in his ascension, he invites those of us who are willing to come to be ascended with him, you know what I mean, to enjoy paradise.
01:14:08.900That is better than any utopia that we can build on the earth.
01:14:12.320And what King is doing, what Stalin is doing, what Lenin is doing, what we're trying to do through the political process is build a heaven on earth.
01:14:20.660We're trying to build our Tower of Babel 2.0 and it won't work.
01:14:24.200And so I think it's for that reason that we begin to take people like King off this pedestal, not for the purpose of just being a truther per se, but for the purpose of edifying Christ, who is the only person, I think, who occupies that place.