Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1234 ｜ Antichrist, Transhumanism & the Strange Faith of Peter Thiel

00:00:00.720 The Antichrist is the current topic of discussion in Silicon Valley. Should we be worried?

00:00:06.280 Also, yours truly came up in an interview between the New York Times and Jen Hatmaker

00:00:10.200 for an interesting reason that we'll discuss. Also, we have an announcement to give you

00:00:16.960 all of this and more on today's episode of Relatable.

00:00:19.460 Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Monday. Hope everyone had a wonderful weekend. All right,

00:00:35.140 we've got a lot to get through today, quite a range of things. And we've also got an announcement to

00:00:42.760 make in just a little bit. But first, I want to talk about an article that I saw over the weekend

00:00:49.140 in the New York Times about Jen Hatmaker. Now, if you don't know who Jen Hatmaker is,

00:00:56.220 then maybe you weren't a Christian woman in 2014 that was in the evangelical world.

00:01:03.800 Jen Hatmaker was a very popular speaker and author around this time and a little bit before that.

00:01:10.280 She's very dynamic, very charismatic, very friendly, very kind of artistic, free-spirited. And so she

00:01:16.820 brought something a little bit different to the evangelical Southern Baptist space that a lot

00:01:22.720 of women really enjoyed. However, she has since deconstructed. And in 2015, I believe it was, she made

00:01:31.720 this big announcement about being gay affirming, LGBTQ affirming. And you'll remember, because we've

00:01:39.740 covered it, that our dear Rosaria Butterfield, who is absolutely amazing, she wrote this incredible

00:01:46.400 rebuttal to what Jen Hatmaker had announced on Facebook in the Gospel Coalition, just saying that

00:01:54.640 what Jen Hatmaker said affirming LGBTQ would have pushed the former Rosaria, who was in a longtime

00:02:04.420 lesbian relationship as a queer feminist professor at Syracuse University, further into her sin.

00:02:13.180 That was Rosaria's argument, that Jen Hatmaker, out of what she calls love and acceptance and a personal

00:02:22.860 evolution of her views, is actually pulling people away from repentance, away from Christ,

00:02:31.300 and deeper into their sin, which of course is separating them from God. And therefore, no matter

00:02:38.280 how loving and accepting and empathetic something sounds, if it is affirming sin, then it is ultimately

00:02:46.140 hateful. Because we talk about this a lot, we talk about this in my first book, You're Not Enough, but we

00:02:52.320 really drive home this point in toxic empathy. How empathy becomes toxic is when it goes from simply trying

00:03:00.480 to feel how someone feels to allowing those feelings to push you in three directions toward validating

00:03:09.800 sin, affirming lies, or affirming lies and validating sin, you could say either direction, or supporting

00:03:18.860 destructive policies. So affirming sin, validating lies, or supporting destructive policies. That is how you

00:03:26.100 know empathy has become toxic. Empathy by itself can be neutral. It can lead you in a good direction toward

00:03:33.920 acting out in love and kindness. Or as it is such a powerful feeling, it can lead you toward the

00:03:42.380 direction of affirming sin. And that is the direction that it led Jen Hatmaker. And now she's got a memoir

00:03:48.600 out. I'm giving it some free press here. I'm talking about her divorce, the disintegration of

00:03:55.180 her marriage and what her life looks like now, what her faith looks like now. She is very, very

00:04:00.280 progressive. She openly affirms, for example, transgenderism in children. She is like as far left

00:04:07.220 as it comes when it comes to those very important foundational theological and civilizational

00:04:16.720 issues. And unfortunately, she's brought a lot of women who have always loved her into that camp

00:04:24.960 of denying what the Bible calls good and right and true. And there was this interview between a New York

00:04:33.520 Times journalist and Jen Hatmaker. And that was just published. And for some reason, I was brought

00:04:39.500 up. I personally find this like a random insertion of my name. But I also think for whatever reason,

00:04:47.800 I've been in the New York Times a lot lately. I think that they are starting to view me as some

00:04:53.020 kind of representative of conservative evangelicalism, which, okay, I'll take it. But this interviewer,

00:04:59.320 seemingly out of nowhere, said to Jen Hatmaker, it's interesting for me to hear you say that

00:05:04.600 in the context. So she's talking about, Jen Hatmaker was talking about, you know, the old way of her

00:05:11.360 faith, evangelicalism, not serving her. She's come to this new place after she deconstructed all of that.

00:05:17.120 And then the journalist says, it's interesting for me to hear you say that in the context of criticism

00:05:21.860 that has been leveled at you from the evangelical influencer, Allie Beth Stuckey. Her argument is that you

00:05:27.320 have a salad bar approach to faith. You pick and choose what you like and discard what you don't.

00:05:32.240 And also, you let your positions be defined by feelings rather than scripture. I mean, go in,

00:05:37.500 David. Come on. Is there something that that line of criticism is missing about you and Christianity?

00:05:44.180 And then Jen says, I don't listen to that. I don't care about that. And that doesn't bother me.

00:05:48.460 Fair enough, Jen. And then David says, why do you think it's wrong? She says, my faith is still

00:05:54.580 what anchors me, what leads me, what compels me, what sustains me. I had always deeply succeeded

00:05:58.500 in the two institutions, the chemicredible church and marriage. Having lost one and disconnected myself

00:06:03.660 from the other, so lost marriage, disconnected from church, I've discovered a faith that exists

00:06:09.360 beautifully outside of that. And of course, I would ask, with as much genuine love as possible,

00:06:16.000 faith in what? Faith in what? Faith in whom? Faith in yourself? Faith in some vague spirituality?

00:06:26.200 If it's faith in Jesus Christ, yes and amen. But can you affirm that Jesus is who he says he is? Can you

00:06:33.920 affirm what he says in Matthew 19, that in the beginning, God made us male and female. What God

00:06:40.180 has brought together, let no man separate? Can you affirm Jesus, whom you say you follow? Can you

00:06:47.740 affirm what he says about marriage, about gender, about sexuality, about sin, about repentance? But

00:06:55.060 really, all of those are secondary to the question, can you affirm what Jesus says about himself in John

00:07:02.060 14, 6, that he is the way, the truth, the life, that no one comes to the Father except through him.

00:07:10.180 Because what I so often see is that when people start denying Genesis 1, 27, first chapter of

00:07:16.480 the first book of the Bible, that God made us male and female, they are on their way to then denying

00:07:23.740 John 14, 6, that Jesus is the way, the truth, the life, that no one can come to the Father except

00:07:30.380 through him. And it's because you're not just denying these little small pieces of the Bible that

00:07:36.920 are tertiary, that ultimately don't matter. You are denying the authority of God's Word. You are

00:07:41.980 denying the authority and the trustworthiness of Jesus himself when it comes to a very basic tenet

00:07:47.860 of Christianity. And if you're going to deny that, something that can not only be read in the first

00:07:52.720 chapter, but observed biologically, observed in the world, then of course you'll eventually deny

00:07:59.060 the spiritually discernible truth, which is that Jesus is the only way to heaven. This sort of faith

00:08:06.020 is very appealing to the world because it doesn't ask you to make any sacrifices. You don't have to

00:08:11.340 deny yourself. You never have to deny your feelings. All of the things that the Bible calls sins, you can

00:08:16.740 just call personality traits or innate desires that you don't have to push to the side. And it is a kind

00:08:23.340 of so-called Christianity that simply affirms everything that the world affirms. Instead of

00:08:29.920 the Christianity that calls us to be enemies of the world so that we are friends with God,

00:08:35.420 it pits itself as friends with the world and puts itself in enmity with God. And that is a very,

00:08:41.180 very dangerous place to be when we start judging our love and our goodness by how the world reacts to us.

00:08:49.580 And all of us have done that one time or another, rather than by the standard of God's word,

00:08:56.380 we just make more and more compromises at first in the name of evangelism and the name of appealing

00:09:02.700 to those who are seeking. And then it is just simply because we have grown to be calloused to the

00:09:11.040 convictions of the Holy Spirit. And so genuinely, I don't say this with any animus. I don't say this

00:09:17.120 with any sarcasm or condescension. Like I want to pray for Jen Hatmaker. I want to pray for Rachel

00:09:23.040 Hollis. I want to pray for Glennon Doyle. I kind of put all of those women in a similar bucket. They

00:09:28.460 are all kind of repackaging self-help in a spiritual way that I think confuses a lot of women. And

00:09:36.420 whenever I think of those women who are all about the self, loving yourself, finding yourself,

00:09:42.760 I always think about this passage in 2 Timothy 3. But understand this, that in the last days,

00:09:49.420 there will come times of difficulty for people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud,

00:09:54.820 arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable,

00:09:59.240 slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving, good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with

00:10:04.860 conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness,

00:10:10.440 but denying its power, avoid such people. Listen to this. For among them are those who creep into

00:10:17.140 households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions,

00:10:23.060 always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of truth. That is what I think of when

00:10:31.980 I think of these women who are leading so many vulnerable and gullible women astray. Their

00:10:39.740 message of self-empowerment and self-liberation is so appealing, especially to those who have been

00:10:47.440 hurt by people in the church or who claim the name of Christ. But ultimately, it is always learning and

00:10:55.580 never arriving at a full knowledge of truth because it's never leading to the only freedom and

00:11:01.060 satisfaction you can find which is in Christ. All right. Speaking of the last days, Silicon Valley

00:11:08.780 is looking toward Armageddon and they are talking about the Antichrist. That is not a story you hear

00:11:14.680 every day. But first, let me tell you about specifically something for the related bros out

00:11:22.180 there. Okay. I got to talk to the related bros. I got to talk to the husbands and the sons and the

00:11:27.540 boyfriends and the dads. I got to talk to all of you. See, your wife or your daughter or your mom or

00:11:36.080 your sister or your girlfriend wants to come to share the arrows, but she's not sure how she's going

00:11:42.580 to get there. And she's a little worried about it. Maybe she's worried about it money-wise, which is

00:11:48.320 understandable. She's worried about it logistics. And if she is a young mom like me, she's got young

00:11:55.120 kids, husbands out there. She's worried about who is going to take care of things while she's gone.

00:12:01.860 And listen, related bros, I need you to make sure that if your wife wants to come to share the arrows,

00:12:09.460 that everything is in place for her to be able to come. Because she will go and then leave feeling

00:12:15.900 so refreshed and so confident and so renewed in hope and encouragement. She will make lifelong friends

00:12:24.320 and it will just fill her heart and sharpen her mind so much. So if you've been thinking about it,

00:12:32.420 or if your wife has been talking about it, but she's worried, instead of just saying, oh yeah,

00:12:37.060 that's a lot to worry about, then my encouragement to you is to do whatever you can to make her feel

00:12:44.700 comfortable and confident that she can go. She can bring her sister. She can bring her friend.

00:12:50.080 She can go by herself. That you are going to hold things down. That everything is going to be great

00:12:56.760 when she comes back. I think that holds a lot of women back from doing things that would be really

00:13:02.900 good because of all of the other things that we have to manage and all the people that we're thinking

00:13:07.060 about. And that's a good thing. And maybe this is not her year to be able to go. But if it's

00:13:11.920 possible, really, to bro, try everything you can to make it happen. And if she wants more

00:13:17.160 information, if you want more information, just go to sharethearrows.com. We're going to have an

00:13:22.160 incredible turnout this year. We're going to have incredible teachers. We've got Elisa Childers.

00:13:26.400 We've got Ginger Duggar-Volo. We've got Taylor Dukes, Katie Faust, Abby Halberstadt. If she likes

00:13:32.340 motherhood, if she likes health, if she aspires to these things, if she just likes apologetics,

00:13:37.940 theology, and worship, and encouragement, and Christian fellowship, she's got to come

00:13:43.580 to share the arrows. It's going to be absolutely amazing. None of that self-help slop that we just

00:13:48.940 told you about. No self-empowerment. No. We are learning how to arm ourselves with God's

00:13:54.260 word, be filled with the Holy Spirit, and to be obedient in every realm of life that God has

00:13:58.880 placed us in. And this year's Share the Arrows is brought to you by our friends at Carly Jean Los

00:14:03.540 Angeles. So make sure that you go to sharethearrows.com. Get your tickets today. Again,

00:14:08.080 you can use Taylor 15, unlock 15% off, and that discount should help you out. Before we get into

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00:15:22.280 Okay, Brie, should I tell them where you?

00:15:29.000 I can tell them.

00:15:30.380 Okay.

00:15:32.200 So I am going to be leaving the Relatable Team. And so we thought we needed to tell you guys.

00:15:41.220 Yeah. Okay. Tell them why. Is it because we're angry at each other?

00:15:46.440 Yeah. Big feud. No, it's really a sad thing for me. So I came, some of you know, I came from the

00:15:54.020 ministry world and doing overseas missions. And I have just really felt God calling me back into

00:16:00.440 that world. And so that's what I'm going to be doing. I'm kind of leaving the podcast world for

00:16:05.780 at least a little while going back into missions. And I'm super excited about it, but really sad to

00:16:12.600 be leaving Allie and Relatable. And you all have been so, so sweet to me. And I'm just so thankful

00:16:20.960 for that. Best audience in the world. So grateful for the three years that I have been here and all

00:16:28.340 the opportunity and getting to know some of you. I'll still be at Share the Arrows. So I'll see some

00:16:33.340 of you there, I'm sure. But yeah, that's what I'm doing.

00:16:37.320 Can you say what you'll be doing generally at the, I won't say the organization, the new ministry?

00:16:43.860 Well, so I'm going to be working pretty directly with missionaries who are overseas working in

00:16:48.720 really like closed, difficult countries to work in. So I actually can't say that much, but

00:16:53.860 I'm going to be helping mostly on the communication side of things. So I'll be based in the U.S.

00:16:59.600 still, but probably going on a lot of trips overseas to make sure that missionaries there

00:17:05.300 are well cared for and equipped to share the gospel with people there.

00:17:09.940 So you were in ministry before you came to Relatable. A lot of people don't know. And we'll

00:17:15.220 talk more about this before, like on her last day, which is in just a couple weeks, by the way. So

00:17:21.080 we'll talk more about all of this. But Brie came to Relatable a few years ago, my other, so I needed

00:17:29.780 a producer. And we had a lot of applications. And I was like, I just don't think any of this feels

00:17:35.180 right. And then one day I was going through my like general email. And I happened to see an email

00:17:41.100 that she had sent several months earlier, asking, hey, like, are y'all hiring? And I looked at her

00:17:47.760 resume. And I was like, I kind of want to talk to this girl. And so we talked and we clicked and it

00:17:52.600 was great. And she came in with very little like podcasting, any kind of like media experience. And

00:17:58.540 she ran with it. And it's been a little over three years, because I think that was July of 2022. And

00:18:05.680 oh my gosh, like so much has happened. The show has grown so much since then. So yeah, it's been,

00:18:11.620 it's been crazy. It's gone by fast, but also it feels like it's been like forever at the same time.

00:18:17.760 It's crazy that that's only like part of Relatable's life. But obviously, Brie has been a big part of

00:18:23.600 it. Okay, so you went ministry, and then you came, you did this for three years, and then you went to

00:18:29.640 ministry. What do you feel like you have learned as a producer that will, now you'll be able to take

00:18:36.300 into the ministry world? Oh my gosh, you're putting me on the spot here. Sorry. No, I think when I,

00:18:43.260 so I was on staff with Crew before. I'm not going back to Crew. It's a different ministry. But

00:18:47.140 there, I felt like I really wasn't as equipped to talk about a lot of the cultural issues. I

00:18:53.480 obviously had opinions and beliefs, but that was something that isn't necessarily relevant when

00:18:59.240 you're like sharing the gospel with someone in the Middle East, for example. But it is relevant

00:19:04.520 when you're talking to the people that you're working with, your like co-laborers who are also

00:19:10.180 working for the ministry. And that was a really weak point for me. And one of the reasons why I think

00:19:14.900 ultimately, the ministry world broke down for me. There were a lot of like liberal Christians in

00:19:20.520 the organization, and I just didn't really have the voice to speak up about anything. And so I think

00:19:26.760 that's one aspect that I feel much more equipped to do, thanks to you, really.

00:19:33.440 And now if anyone tries to convince you about pit bulls, like your mind has changed and you know.

00:19:38.440 No, I've never been pro pit bull for the record, but now I'm pretty radical.

00:19:44.220 Yeah.

00:19:45.280 What can I say?

00:19:46.340 Yeah. So that's one aspect. I think just being so clear about my convictions in a way that

00:19:52.340 that maybe I wasn't before. So that's good. And then, you know, there's lots of technical stuff

00:19:58.040 too, that is super useful just in working in general. So.

00:20:02.040 Yeah. Okay. Well, that will not be the last time you hear from Brie. She'll be here for the next

00:20:08.160 couple of weeks as we transition out of Brie era, the Brie era of relatable, but she will come back

00:20:16.080 on the show and we will have a formal farewell and wish her well. But I just wanted you guys to know

00:20:22.460 now, I didn't want it to seem like it was sudden or anything controversial. I am super grateful for

00:20:28.600 Brie, but I am very excited for her as she listens to the conviction that God has put on her heart and

00:20:35.440 she goes into this new realm and is an asset to this new ministry and yeah, new seasons of life,

00:20:42.440 new seasons for her, new seasons for the show. And so pray for the show too, that we find the right

00:20:48.260 person because it's not an easy role to fill. It's a big role to fill. Obviously someone who is in

00:20:55.140 alignment with my values, who has a lot of experience because at this point in the show,

00:21:02.100 it's not, it can't be a role for someone who is just like, I'm a quick learner. It's got to be a role

00:21:07.880 for someone who has experience at this point in podcasting. So I do just want to put that out there. If

00:21:14.780 you are someone who has the experience and the values, the skills that you think, um, could align with

00:21:24.160 a senior producing role for a show like this, or if you know someone, um, then please apply right

00:21:30.960 now. I'm going to send you to email relatable messages at gmail.com. There'll probably be like

00:21:37.640 an actual like job posting and all of that relatable messages at gmail.com. We can put it in

00:21:42.400 the description, send your resume, send your cover letter and all of that good stuff. I care about the

00:21:49.640 grammar in your emails, by the way, just FYI. Um, but that is, that's all I'm going to say about

00:21:56.340 that. And we'll talk more about Bree's farewell and future episodes. Oh, one thing I just wanted

00:22:01.860 to say, cause I know I'm going to get a comment about this before we get into like the meat of

00:22:06.280 today's episode. I know someone's going to tell me that I look like I'm wearing a prison jumpsuit

00:22:11.920 because it's an orange jumpsuit. I just want to defend myself. It really, it kind of does look like

00:22:15.840 that a little chicer though. Right. Um, I just want to say it's not orange in person. It's coral

00:22:20.660 in person, but the lights and the coloring of the studio kind of make everything a little bit

00:22:27.020 warmer. Orange is still in my color season, but it's not an orange jumpsuit. It is a coral jumpsuit.

00:22:33.660 I just wanted to defend myself there. All right. Speaking of that, Peter Thiel. Um, okay. So the

00:22:41.820 reason we're talking about him, I'm just kidding. That had nothing to do with Peter Thiel. The reason

00:22:46.180 that we're talking about Peter Thiel is because I saw something on X that Peter Thiel, this, uh,

00:22:52.420 tech entrepreneur, co-founder of PayPal and Palantir. Is that how you say it? And Palantir,

00:22:58.860 which is a company that creates software and analyze data for governments and things like that,

00:23:04.300 that he is leading this seminar series about the antichrist on September 15th.

00:23:11.820 And this caused me to look into Peter Thiel and who he actually is, what he actually believes. A lot

00:23:17.940 of this stuff, some of you probably already know, but there's probably some stuff that you don't want

00:23:22.460 to know, but I'm, or that you don't know, or maybe don't want to know, but he is a very interesting

00:23:27.700 person. And I wanted to know why would someone in Silicon Valley care about the antichrist? What does

00:23:33.460 he think about the antichrist? And is someone who is so rich and so powerful, so influential on all of

00:23:40.640 the technology that we have on our hand, in our hands and is influencing culture is what he thinks

00:23:46.400 about the antichrist going to be something that actually impacts us. So first, before we talk about

00:23:52.460 what his series actually is, why he's focusing on the antichrist, what he actually believes about it,

00:23:58.980 what it could mean for us, I would just want to back up and tell you who Peter Thiel is because

00:24:03.620 you might know or you may not know. So as I said, he is the co-founder of PayPal and Palantir.

00:24:11.740 He is a multi-billionaire. He also identifies as a Christian, but he is married to a man,

00:24:18.920 has two children via IVF and surrogacy, which obviously is something that we've talked about

00:24:23.340 many times. He recently did an interview with Ross Dalfit, the podcast that I was on for the New York

00:24:31.100 Times called Interesting Times, where he said, as we'll get into later, that he doesn't actually

00:24:36.460 know if the human race should survive. And then he started talking about transhumanism. So needless to

00:24:43.600 say, Peter Thiel is a very heterodox person. He has a lot of interesting beliefs that seem to inform

00:24:50.520 what he thinks the antichrist is. So let's back up a little bit. He was born in Germany, raised in the

00:24:57.780 United States. In 1998, he co-founded this big company. He also invested in startups like Facebook

00:25:06.360 and other companies that made him millions and millions of dollars. He is a donor to Republican

00:25:16.180 campaigns like J.D. Vance's Senate run, like President Trump and Vance's presidential run.

00:25:25.420 He has a venture firm, Teal Capital, led a $3.8 million seed funding round in September 2022

00:25:35.100 for an app called 28. It was initially called 28 by Evie. It's a femtech app that offers cycle-based

00:25:43.400 information. So this app was created by a conservative influencer, Brittany Martinez,

00:25:50.360 who also founded Evie Magazine. He's not behind Evie Magazine, but he is behind this app. And as I

00:25:57.940 said, he is a self-proclaimed Christian who was raised by evangelical parents, but he's got some

00:26:05.520 really interesting things to say about Christianity. As you can imagine, as someone who is gay, who has

00:26:13.040 used surrogacy to procure his children, and who believes all kinds of things that you and I, as

00:26:20.720 evangelical Christians, do not believe. The statements that he has made about Christianity, I think, are

00:26:28.120 pretty interesting and speak to a heterodox view of who Christ actually is and what Christianity is.

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00:27:55.500 In a profile in the New Yorker, Atil stated, I believe Christianity to be true. I don't feel

00:28:06.920 a compelling need to convince other people of that. So that right there, I'm like, okay,

00:28:11.660 well, that's interesting. If you have the conviction that Christianity is true, but you don't feel

00:28:16.160 the conviction, a compelling need to tell other people about it. Of course, my question would be,

00:28:21.220 what part of Christianity do you believe? Because Jesus, one of the last commandments that he gave

00:28:27.200 us in Matthew 28, 19 through 20, he says, go therefore and make disciples of all nations,

00:28:33.020 baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all

00:28:37.660 that I have commanded you. Acts 1, 8, Jesus says, but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has

00:28:43.040 come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria and to the

00:28:49.080 end of the earth. And to Vanity Fair, or according to Vanity Fair, in a 2020 speech he gave, he said,

00:28:55.520 I believe in the resurrection of Christ. The only good role model for us is Christ. Okay, again,

00:29:01.880 that is interesting to have that conviction, which is not an easy belief. Christianity is not an easy

00:29:07.760 belief system to hold. But then to say that he does not feel compelled to convince other people of that,

00:29:13.780 which is part and parcel with Christianity and our call as Christians, is very interesting.

00:29:20.600 He often speaks about Christianity in tech. In 2023, Peter Thiel gave a speech about miracles and

00:29:29.620 forgiveness and Jesus at a birthday party for his business partner. And a woman by the name of

00:29:37.140 Michelle Stevens was inspired by his speech and started something called the Act 17 Collective.

00:29:42.620 The group hosts events to help tech and entertainment leaders explore Christian faith. It stands for

00:29:48.860 Acknowledging Christ in Technology and Society, and also refers to Act 17 in the Bible.

00:29:58.480 So Thiel is a prominent supporter of Act 17. He speaks at a lot of their events, which again,

00:30:05.220 I just find so fascinating as someone whose own personal life, as we'll get into in a minute,

00:30:10.520 is so opposed to what Christianity teaches about morality and marriage and sexuality and all of

00:30:16.640 that. And who doesn't believe that, you know, he needs to have a compelling desire to share the

00:30:22.440 gospel would also be a part of an organization that wants to infiltrate the technological world,

00:30:27.940 Silicon Valley, with biblical truth, with the truth of the gospel. According to the Daily Mail,

00:30:35.660 speaking of his personal life, Thiel has generally been pretty private about it. He is married. We say

00:30:42.460 quote unquote married. We use the scare quotes because God defines marriage and he defines it

00:30:47.220 positively one way and one way only. And that is between one man and one woman for life. So he is

00:30:54.440 in a union with Matt Dan Zeeson. And they had a ceremony in October 2017. They have two young

00:31:05.540 daughters born via surrogate. And just a reminder, adoption redeems a broken situation. But surrogacy

00:31:14.380 creates a broken situation, taking a child away not only from their biological mother, but also from the

00:31:22.320 only woman they've ever known, which is the woman who gestated them. And to rob a child of their

00:31:29.040 mother is cruel. Children have a right to a mother and a father. And the fact that it is legal and that

00:31:37.940 it is celebrated to take a child from their mom, when we know the physiological importance of skin to

00:31:45.280 skin and that bonding and knowing who your parents are, if at all possible, just because you have the

00:31:51.860 money and the power to do it, it is so cruel. A reminder that puppies and kittens are required

00:31:58.720 to stay with their mothers for at least six weeks after birth. Yet with babies that are procured via

00:32:05.580 surrogacy, we rip them away from both their mother and the woman who carried them moments after birth.

00:32:12.540 And again, it is different from adoption. Not always the effect is different than adoption, but

00:32:17.120 the intent is different than adoption because adoption redeems an already broken situation.

00:32:22.980 Surrogacy creates that broken situation. At the 2016 Republican National Convention,

00:32:29.520 Teal said, I am proud to be gay. I am proud to be a Republican, but most of all, I am proud to be

00:32:35.780 an American. And there's some also like messy details of his personal life that we won't get into

00:32:44.220 because it's not relevant for those of us who are Christian, who believe that God's word is good,

00:32:49.300 that his commands are good, that God wants people to flourish, that he loves us. And so he created

00:32:55.000 marriage for our good and for the good of children. We already know that this is someone who is

00:33:01.880 unfortunately in many ways wayward, that he has not fully believed in the gospel and allowed it to

00:33:08.720 manifest in his life because Christ is not leading his life. I can be thankful for some of the

00:33:14.740 contributions he's made to really good campaigns and the different things that he said that happened

00:33:21.460 to be true and also realize that, okay, this is someone who desperately needs the truth of the gospel

00:33:27.960 to permeate his heart and his life. And we really see this manifest itself, not just in his personal

00:33:35.480 choices, but also in his beliefs about something called transhumanism. So he did this Interesting

00:33:42.480 Times interview with Ross Douthat. Ross Douthat is, I would say, pretty conservative, not as conservative

00:33:49.740 as me, but he's a more traditional and conservative Catholic. And he interviewed Peter Thiel. And I just

00:33:56.940 want to say like Ross Douthat is doing a great job. I have found his interviews to be really, really

00:34:02.920 interesting. And I love the way that he pushes back on people, including how he pushed back on me

00:34:07.120 in our interview. So Thiel characterizes transhumanism in this interview as the pursuit

00:34:13.160 of radical transformation, where your human natural body gets transformed into an immortal body.

00:34:18.020 Wait, that sounds so familiar. That sounds like the biblical concept of the bodily resurrection that

00:34:23.660 all believers will take part in one day that we get to throw off our natural body and we put on this

00:34:31.420 immortal body which will live forever. And it sounds to me, though, that Peter Thiel thinks that this is

00:34:37.640 possible outside of the power of Christ and is actually possible through things like cryonics. So

00:34:43.540 freezing your body or your head for future revival in uploading consciousness to a computer, I guess,

00:34:51.200 to like re-download one day into someone's body. So at its core, transhumanism is kind of an

00:34:58.400 intellectual or cultural movement that advocates for using technology and science to enhance the

00:35:03.040 human condition like living longer, combating aging, incorporating robotics. What do we always

00:35:09.500 say about technology? When technology takes us from what is natural to what is possible, Christians have

00:35:16.760 the responsibility to ask, but is this moral? Is this ethical? And most of all, is this biblical?

00:35:23.240 And when it comes to messing with either the creation of life through things like IVF, sperm and egg

00:35:30.080 selling, surrogacy, and the curtailing of death, then we have a lot of questions to ask. It's not

00:35:38.660 always a no. Technology is not always a no. Sometimes the answer is yes, this is moral, ethical, and this

00:35:45.720 is biblical. But a lot of times when you try to play God, both in the creation of life and trying to

00:35:53.820 completely defeat the power of the curse that was set upon us through Adam and Eve in the garden,

00:36:02.200 then, okay, we've got to talk about some things, right? So here's what he said to Ross Duthat about

00:36:10.900 not just transhumanism, but this set it up. Should the human race even survive? Here's that one.

00:36:20.400 You would prefer the human race to endure, right? You're hesitating. Yes? I don't know. I would.

00:36:29.540 I would. This is a long hesitation. There's so many questions. Should the human race survive?

00:36:37.480 Yes. But I also would like us to radically solve these problems. And so, you know, it's always,

00:36:52.580 I don't know, you know, yeah, transhumanism is this, you know, the ideal was this radical

00:37:02.300 transformation where your human natural body gets transformed into an immortal body.

00:37:11.260 Bria, I'm thinking about so many perspectives right now. I've been the interviewee. I've been

00:37:16.040 the interviewer. And while I haven't technically been the producer, I can imagine what the producer

00:37:21.440 is thinking. And I can also imagine, I don't think Peter Thiel has a publicist, but like what his

00:37:27.280 publicist is doing. So as the interviewer, I'm like, this is an amazing moment. I cannot, I'm like,

00:37:34.780 clip, clip, clip, clip. I'm so like, no, I loved the hesitation if I were an interviewer because,

00:37:41.840 wow, I can't believe I got this on tape. This is a huge newsworthy moment, which is, I'm guessing,

00:37:47.440 what you would be thinking as a producer. Same.

00:37:49.440 Like, oh my gosh, you're like sending me Slack messages. That's what I do when I don't have time

00:37:56.800 to say anything. And things like that don't typically happen. But wow. And then as the

00:38:03.220 producer, that's what you're thinking. And then as Peter Thiel's publicist, you're like, yes, yes.

00:38:08.940 The answer is yes. Just yes. Yep. Just yes. That's it. You want the human race to survive.

00:38:14.440 Yes. And then, and then when he says, but no, no, Peter, no, no, no. And did it? Yes. Pause,

00:38:22.800 period. Yeah, that was quite the moment. So he doesn't really know if the human race should

00:38:31.680 persist. That is very troubling for me. That's very troubling. And then that he says, yes, but let's

00:38:38.860 solve these problems via transhumanism. I'm worried. Okay. Let me take a pause and tell you

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00:40:02.600 Okay, so let's talk about transhumanism, like what he really believes about that, trying to curtail

00:40:11.740 death altogether, okay? Not just alleviate suffering, not just heal sickness, which I do think is an

00:40:17.880 extension of the Christian purpose, by the way, but to try to eliminate death altogether by curtailing

00:40:26.080 this natural process of human expiration that we have inherited because of our sin in Adam.

00:40:32.900 Here's thought two.

00:40:34.380 The trans people in a sexual context, or I don't know, transvestite, is someone who changes their

00:40:40.800 clothes and cross-dresses, and a transsexual is someone where you change your, I don't know,

00:40:46.420 penis into a vagina, and we can then debate how well those surgeries work. But we want more

00:40:52.200 transformation than that. The critique is not that it's weird and unnatural. It's, man, it's so

00:40:57.420 pathetically little. And, okay, we want more than cross-dressing or changing your sex organs. We want

00:41:03.400 you to be able to change your heart and change your mind and change your whole, your whole body?

00:41:11.040 No, we don't. We do not want that. It's too far. Science, I mean, this is, I mean, Silicon Valley, I feel

00:41:19.900 like in so many ways, is the Tower of Babel. It is, in so many different ways. In so many different ways, it is

00:41:27.040 human beings trying to build their way to God and trying to be God. And we know that God didn't like that

00:41:33.800 because he scattered them and he confused all of their languages. And actually, I think that there is a portion

00:41:40.760 of like the H-1B debate in Silicon Valley that is relevant to that story. But also here, it is a form of

00:41:48.400 self-idolatry. And it is not trusting in and hoping in the glory that we are promised in Christ,

00:41:57.040 but we are trying to attain that here. It's very much like the mentality that I see from progressives

00:42:04.440 who confuse like what the kingdom of heaven actually is. They believe that it is ending all of their version

00:42:13.280 of oppression or their idea of inequality here on earth. I'm not saying that we shouldn't try to alleviate the

00:42:19.620 suffering from true oppression because we should, but their belief is that there is not a future

00:42:26.300 heaven that we are going toward, but that we can actually politically create some kind of utopia

00:42:33.420 here on earth where no person ever has more than another person and everyone is liberated in all

00:42:40.240 systems and institutions and, you know, all order and hierarchy is eliminated. That is the progressive

00:42:49.900 idea of bringing the kingdom of heaven here on earth through social justice and political means.

00:42:55.360 And this is almost like a progressive technological version of that, that we can bring the kingdom

00:43:00.600 of heaven here on earth through technology, which brings us into what he actually thinks. If that is,

00:43:06.660 if that is a correct assessment, which is just my opinion of what he believes, then that informs what he

00:43:15.780 means when he says the Antichrist, when he is conducting these seminars on what the Antichrist

00:43:22.580 is. According to the New York Times, because he describes this in this interview with Ross Douthat,

00:43:29.800 and I read the whole transcript. I mean, he is brilliant. He is a very, very smart person. So clearly he's thought

00:43:36.920 a lot about this, but I do find it from a Christian perspective to be very confusing considering what we

00:43:43.020 know biblically about the actual Antichrist. So Thiel describes the Antichrist as a potential

00:43:48.640 systemic threat rather than a literal individual, suggesting it could manifest as a one world

00:43:53.540 totalitarian state that promises peace and safety, but suppresses freedom. So he actually cites the

00:44:00.520 Bible in supporting this idea. He connects it to 1 Thessalonians 5.3. He argues that the Antichrist's

00:44:07.360 appeal lies in exploiting fears of catastrophic technologies to justify centralized control.

00:44:13.880 The way the Antichrist would take over the world is you talk about Armageddon nonstop. You talk about

00:44:19.340 existential risk nonstop, and this is what you need to regulate. So you could see if that is the case,

00:44:27.100 how that would have manifested itself many times over the years. No, it's, you know, nuclear weapons are

00:44:34.340 going to be like Armageddon. You need to make sure that I have all of the power. No, this over here is

00:44:40.900 going to be the Armageddon. Climate change is going to be the Armageddon. You need to make sure that I

00:44:45.860 have all the power to stop that. But he is arguing that the Antichrist will be someone who actually

00:44:51.980 pushes for technological stagnation. I think he believes that a lot of people wrongly believe

00:44:58.220 that the Antichrist will be someone who uses AI and uses technology to gain all of this power,

00:45:07.540 this Antichrist power to set himself against governments, to set himself against God himself.

00:45:12.360 He is arguing that it will actually be the opposite. Now, what is not completely clear to me

00:45:18.820 is whether or not Peter Thiel believes in an actual man of lawlessness that the Bible describes,

00:45:25.560 which we'll get into in a second, or if he believes the Antichrist is kind of a metaphor

00:45:31.160 for technological stagnation. And maybe he describes that clearly somewhere. It is not

00:45:38.180 completely clear to me. So in his interview, he expresses concern that modern technology,

00:45:44.080 particularly artificial intelligence and global data systems, could provide the infrastructure

00:45:47.660 for what the Bible calls the Antichrist. But again, not how we would think of it,

00:45:52.180 but someone who sets himself against those things. Now, it is worth noting that as we're

00:45:58.820 trying to describe his beliefs, that his company, Palantir, Palantir, right? There's so many different

00:46:06.160 ways that it looks like you could pronounce that develops those kinds of technologies, large scale

00:46:10.280 software systems used by government agencies and other entities to assist in their operations.

00:46:15.940 And so, Ross, the interviewer here is like, well, aren't you just kind of trying to make it seem

00:46:23.060 like anyone who opposes what you're trying to do is part of the Antichrist? Here's top three.

00:46:30.820 You're an investor in AI. You're deeply invested in Palantir, in military technology,

00:46:38.780 in technologies of surveillance, in technologies of warfare and so on, right?

00:46:43.520 And it just seems to me that when you tell me a story about the Antichrist coming to power

00:46:51.160 and using the fear of technological change to sort of impose order on the world,

00:46:57.060 I feel like that Antichrist would maybe be using the tools that you were building, right?

00:47:04.340 Look, there are all these different scenarios. I obviously don't think that that's what I'm doing.

00:47:10.060 Okay. So I thought that that was a fair question by Ross, and obviously Peter Thiel doesn't see it

00:47:17.740 that way, but I think that that's, you know, that's fair to ask. Thiel says that the Antichrist

00:47:22.120 would gain power by exploiting the constant fear of apocalyptic scenarios that could be brought to

00:47:27.720 fruition by things like AI. He says, the way the Antichrist would take over the world is you talk

00:47:33.160 Armageddon nonstop, you talk about existential risk nonstop, and this is what you need to regulate.

00:47:40.760 So, I mean, it is interesting and maybe questionable that someone who makes a lot of money through

00:47:47.020 technology would say that stopping technological innovation is actually going to, you know,

00:47:53.620 usher in the Antichrist or be a part of the Antichrist plan to take over the world. Again,

00:47:59.900 whether he thinks that literally, theologically, or whether he just thinks that's a metaphor for,

00:48:04.980 like, environmentalism taking over because he really doesn't like Greta Thunberg is kind of

00:48:10.260 unclear. So what are these seminars about? Like, what is he telling these bigwigs and Silicon Valley

00:48:17.500 who are creating the technology that is impacting so much of our lives? So he's got this four-part

00:48:24.780 lecture series called The Antichrist that explores the biblical figure of the Antichrist through the

00:48:30.420 lens of science, theology, history, politics, and literature. I, like, would actually love to attend

00:48:35.820 these. I think it would be really interesting. So here's all we really know about it. This is the

00:48:42.100 event page. You are warmly invited to a series of four lectures. Peter is a technology entrepreneur and

00:48:47.440 investor. How his Christian faith he's going to talk about informs his understanding of the world.

00:48:52.360 His remarks will be anchored in science and technology, will comment on theology, history,

00:48:56.640 etc. Religious thinkers upon whom Peter will draw include René Girard, Francis Bacon, Jonathan Swift,

00:49:03.140 Carl Schmitt, and John Henry Newman. These lectures are off the record. Carl Schmitt was a Nazi and

00:49:14.500 provided legal support for the regime. Thiel references his friend-enemy political theory,

00:49:20.100 the concept of the political 1927, which defines politics as fundamentally based on the distinction

00:49:26.480 between friends and enemies and argued that this binary is the essence of political life. I'm not

00:49:31.020 saying, this is just noted here in my notes, I'm not trying to say that Peter Thiel is a Nazi or that

00:49:36.500 he's sympathetic to Nazis. I haven't seen anything in my research that supports that, but it is an

00:49:41.880 interesting thing to include in the event page. Jonathan Swift, the satirical writer, and then

00:49:50.420 René Girard was someone who really apparently influenced Peter Thiel. He talked a lot about

00:49:56.520 mimetic desire, which we've actually talked about on this show before, that our desires are actually

00:50:01.400 shaped by what other people want. And that's interesting. We don't have time to get into that

00:50:07.280 whole philosophical theory right now. And also, he apparently taught that Jesus was like the end of

00:50:15.240 the need for mimetic desire, if I am understanding that correctly, which again, interesting philosophy,

00:50:22.580 but don't have time to explore that all today. But we will link the past episode that we've done

00:50:26.940 talking about mimetic desire. So these are some of the people that apparently have influenced him,

00:50:33.700 what he thinks about the Antichrist, what he thinks about theology. This is off the record,

00:50:38.060 so I'm not sure if much will come out of this. I just think it's interesting that Silicon Valley,

00:50:42.620 which a lot of people believe is like a co-capital of godlessness with maybe Hollywood and DC

00:50:48.660 sharing that title, that they are talking even about, like even conceptually about something like

00:50:56.160 the Antichrist, which is not just a Christian belief, but almost a niche Christian belief. Not that only

00:51:02.040 some Christians believe it, but it's not something that we typically talk about when we are talking

00:51:06.840 about like what Christianity is, because it's kind of scary, you know, like it's a big thing. So what

00:51:13.680 does the Bible actually say about the Antichrist? Is it just a metaphor? Is it even possible what Peter

00:51:18.720 Thiel is talking about? Well, let's just go see what the Word of God actually has to say about this

00:51:22.980 Antichrist who is also described as a man of lawlessness. We'll get to that in just a second.

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00:52:39.260 I love Systematic Theology by Wayne Grudem. That is a resource I recommend, and it's a little bit of

00:52:45.420 an investment, but you can keep it on hand forever and always reference it. What does the Bible have to

00:52:50.440 say about this? What are the different theories about the end times? There's so much in it that

00:52:55.580 is really, really helpful, and you can see all different kinds of Christian perspectives on

00:53:00.380 theological issues. So I just really encourage you to buy Systematic Theology if you don't already

00:53:05.980 have it. So this is Wayne Grudem's definition of the Antichrist based on what we see in Scripture.

00:53:11.440 The man of lawlessness who will appear prior to the second coming of Christ. So Christ already came

00:53:17.480 once as a baby and then died as a man, and he will come back again, this time not as a baby but as a

00:53:22.980 warrior, and will cause great suffering and persecution. This man of lawlessness only to be

00:53:28.380 destroyed by Jesus. The term is also used to describe other figures who embody such an opposition to

00:53:34.500 Christ and are precursors of the final Antichrist. So John Piper has an interesting resource on this

00:53:42.000 on DesiringGod.com. That is his ministry where he talks about the kingdom of God being in the future

00:53:48.980 but already here. So in the present but not yet. Already and not yet. And that is also true

00:53:54.380 of the Antichrist. The Antichrist is a future man, a man of lawlessness that is not here yet. And yet the

00:54:02.040 spirit of the Antichrist and multiple Antichrists have already come and are still arriving. So here's what

00:54:09.880 the Bible has to say in 1 John. 1 John 2, 18. Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard

00:54:16.680 that the Antichrist is coming, so now many Antichrists have come. Therefore, we know that it is the last

00:54:22.360 hour. 1 John 2, 22. Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the Antichrist,

00:54:30.120 he who denies the Father and the Son. Okay, so the Antichrist and people who deny the Father and the Son

00:54:37.000 have already existed for a long time. 1 John 4, 3. And every spirit that does not confess Jesus

00:54:42.300 is not from God. This is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you heard was coming and now

00:54:48.620 is in the world already. 2 John 1, 7. For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who

00:54:54.900 do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and is the Antichrist.

00:55:01.760 So in 2013, John Piper said this. So both Paul and John picture a final time just before the

00:55:08.820 second coming when a person of great demonic power will rise up in rebellion against the true Christ

00:55:13.820 and his people. In the meantime, the satanic characteristics of that figure are always

00:55:18.560 manifesting themselves in the world with greater or lesser dominance. The Antichrist is coming and he

00:55:23.520 is here already. So this is that future man of lawlessness, 2 Thessalonians 2, 3 through 4.

00:55:31.040 Let no one deceive you in any way, for that day will not come unless the rebellion comes first.

00:55:36.220 So that's the falling away of people who profess to be believers. And the man of lawlessness is

00:55:41.760 revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called God or object

00:55:48.080 of worship, so that he takes a seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. Okay, so a lot

00:55:55.280 of people are going to follow him. A lot of people are going to believe him. So the debate is,

00:55:58.980 and that Peter Thiel is waiting into, is what is the means by which? What is the means by which

00:56:04.100 this person will be able to convince so many people that he is powerful and needs to have

00:56:08.540 all this authority? 2 Thessalonians 2, 6 through 10 says that,

00:56:13.420 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth

00:56:17.720 and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. So that means that this has not happened

00:56:23.640 yet. Because we know that any people who people thought were the Antichrist, like Hitler, for

00:56:29.740 example, that the Lord Jesus has not come back and killed him with the breath of his mouth and has

00:56:36.380 brought him to nothing. There is a lot of other commentary on who this man of lawlessness will

00:56:44.580 be. Obviously, he will be lawless. He will be chaotic. He won't follow the law. And yet he will use

00:56:49.740 whatever powers of persuasion he has. And of course, the spirit of apostasy will be upon a lot of people

00:56:55.820 to say, you need to trust me and that I am, you know, leading this kind of one world order. And it

00:57:02.500 will work until Jesus defeats him once and for all. Now, obviously, there's the debate post-millennial,

00:57:08.580 pre-millennial. Just a reminder, I am pre-mil, post-trib. If you want more about that, again,

00:57:13.740 you can read Wayne Grudem's explanation on all of the different perspectives on eschatology. And

00:57:20.440 we've done episodes on it in the past, most recently on my Israel episode. But we all agree

00:57:26.360 that there will be this kind of man of lawlessness. So is it possible that this person uses the threat

00:57:32.760 and the fear of AI-powered Armageddon to gain his power? I would say that is possible. Is it also

00:57:40.760 possible that he uses fear, other kinds of existential fear to gain power? Yes, it is possible.

00:57:49.340 But is he some kind of metaphor for technological stagnation or like climate change or whatever it

00:57:56.740 is? No, it is an actual man. He will actually convince lots of people to follow him. I believe

00:58:03.240 that Christians who are Christians alive at that time will live through the tribulation.

00:58:10.760 And that we could see the man of lawlessness. It really depends upon what your eschatology is

00:58:15.840 there. And so I do think it's interesting that Peter Thiel is talking about something like this.

00:58:20.920 I would recommend that he and every single person get right with God, that we make sure that we are

00:58:27.840 friends with God, that we are enemies of the world, friends of God. That doesn't mean we don't love the

00:58:32.720 world and preach to the world because of course we should, but that we are right with God, that we are

00:58:36.820 walking with him in holiness and impurity by the power of the Holy Spirit. Because if the Holy Spirit

00:58:43.600 is in our life, he will not let us live perpetually in sin. We will hate our sin and we will loathe the

00:58:50.120 desires of our flesh and we will deny the things that feel good to us, but God calls unholy. And so

00:58:55.680 that day is actually coming where we will stand before God. And the only right answer will be Christ

00:59:03.400 covering us by his blood. And while we do not earn salvation by being good or following rules,

00:59:11.440 following Christ is evidence of our salvation and the justification that he has given us by grace

00:59:16.840 through faith. So that would be my encouragement to everyone attending these lectures, which I'm sure

00:59:21.020 will actually be very interesting. All right, I've got one more sponsor before we head out,

00:59:26.200 and that is Every Life. Y'all love Every Life so much. I have so many pro-life sponsors and I just

00:59:32.120 love them. Every Life is the pro-life diaper company. They, again, put their money where their

00:59:38.020 heart is. They not only support their pregnant and adopting employees, they also donate resources to

00:59:43.660 pregnancy centers across the country, making sure they've got diapers and wipes and everything they

00:59:47.560 need to help moms affirm life. We use Every Life diapers and products in our home. We love it,

00:59:53.440 y'all. It's so good. Their diapers work really well. I've tried pretty much every other kind of diaper

00:59:59.260 and they just don't work as well as Every Life. I love the clean materials. I love how effective

01:00:04.180 they are. They're amazing. Go to everylife.com. Use code Allie10 for 10% off your order. That's

01:00:10.460 everylife.com, code Allie10. All right. Well, we're already over an hour, Bree. Should I do my heart pill to

01:00:22.360 swallow? You can always save it. Keep people on their toes. I could keep people on their toes,

01:00:28.680 or I could just give them a little heart pill to swallow. That has nothing to do with what we

01:00:33.780 talked about today. Okay. I just want to play this video and then I'll give you my reaction to it.

01:00:38.260 Okay. This is the Border Collie video.

01:00:58.680 Okay. So it's not really clear what's happening here. If this is this woman's dog or if this is a

01:01:09.860 random stray dog, but it's leading me to say this, that there are very few places in public where dogs

01:01:17.780 should be allowed and a grocery store is not one of them. Now, I know your rat terrier is perfectly

01:01:24.340 behaved than actually helps you pick out your cauliflower. I know that your Border Collie or

01:01:30.060 your Golden Retriever is the exception to the rule, but the fact of the matter is no matter how cute or

01:01:35.420 clean or well-behaved your dog is, it is still a dog in most public spaces are for humans and humans have

01:01:42.520 allergies. Humans have fears. Humans should be free to, should have a right to be able to navigate

01:01:49.360 most public spaces just around other humans. And we shouldn't be living in a zoo. I actually

01:01:57.100 think it is a sign of the de-civilization of society that we have opened up so much of our

01:02:04.920 public world to dogs and other animals that eat feces. Like we are a human society and we should

01:02:15.700 create spaces that keep humans as safe and as healthy as humanly possible. The vast majority

01:02:22.220 of dogs don't need to go on planes. I'm not saying I don't like dogs. I really love dogs,

01:02:27.720 but there's a time and a place for them and your dog will be totally fine at home. And if your dog

01:02:32.100 is not okay at home while you're going to the grocery store, you need to train your dog. You need

01:02:36.860 to hire someone to watch your dog, but forcing other people to pretend that your dog is a human

01:02:42.140 or be around your dog, especially your pit bull when they don't want to be is unkind. It's not

01:02:49.960 conscientious. And I don't think that we should be bending all of these rules and putting decorum

01:02:57.240 out the window just in favor of canines who are not made in the image of God. They're precious and

01:03:02.840 cute, but they are not image bearers of God and image bearers of God and our needs and our well-being

01:03:07.160 and our safety and security and our comfort comes first. All right. That's my hard pill to swallow

01:03:13.020 for today. And on that note, we'll be back here on Wednesday.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - August 25, 2025

Ep 1234 ｜ Antichrist, Transhumanism & the Strange Faith of Peter Thiel

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