Ep 1236 ｜ Mom of 10 on How to Order Your Day & Raise Godly Kids ｜ Abbie Halberstadt
Episode Stats
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Summary
Abby Halberstadt, author and homeschooling mom of 10, is here to tell women why motherhood and all of the stretching that it does to your body and your soul is 100% worth it. She s back with us this year at Share the Arrows, where she s going to be on an amazing motherhood panel.
Transcript
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As more and more people are opting out of parenthood because of its difficulty,
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Abby Halberstadt, author and homeschooling mom of 10, is here to tell women why motherhood and
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all of the stretching that it does of your body and your soul is 100% worth it. Also, Abby is
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back with us this year at Share the Arrows. She's going to be on an amazing motherhood panel. You're
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going to love this conversation. You'll also love that conversation at Share the Arrows. So make
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sure you go to sharethearrows.com. Use code ABBY15. That's ABBY15. You'll get 15% off your ticket.
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This episode with Abby is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to goodranchers.com.
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Use code Allie at checkout. That's goodranchers.com. Code Allie.
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Okay. You are here looking amazing, yet you have some kind of cast thing on your leg because you
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Yes. I have a super sexy compression hose thing. Plus, I throw another compression thing on top
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of that. Just double compression to make it extra attractive. Yes. Okay. So I have a lovely,
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gnarly varicose veins from my first pregnancy with twins, which was 13 years ago, that have just
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progressively gotten worse over time. They hurt. They're unsightly. And the doctor's like, listen,
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this is a degenerative thing. Like it's not getting better on its own. And you don't want to be my dad.
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I get them from my dad. And I see what his look like at 70 years old. And I'm like, I should probably
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do something about that. So I did do something about that. Finally, like postponed it. And it got
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postponed on me multiple times, but did that on Friday.
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Oh my goodness. And you're here and you're walking, but it's kind of painful still.
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Yeah. I think doctor's jobs other than, you know, helping heal you is to tell you,
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you're going to be like doing everything like backflips and you're going to be fine. And it's
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going to be tomorrow. And so he was like, I love pickleball. And he was like, I was like,
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when can I play pickleball again? He's like, five days or to like your tolerance of pain,
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which of course with my competitive personality is like, that's right tomorrow. And I won't let
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pain get in my way. I can barely walk. I'm not playing pickleball. I'm like hobbling, you know?
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So she thinks duck, but it's okay. Okay. So you've had 10 kids, two twin pregnancies,
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which I'm sure, as you said, contributed to the varicose veins. And you've been dealing kind of
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with the aches and pains of that for a while. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And that kind of ties into
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your book. It does. Right. Okay. So let's talk about that. Let's talk about your book. You bet
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your stretch marks. Yeah. Right. Tell me about the title. So probably five or six years ago,
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I had all these people asking me questions like, I'm putting in all this effort in motherhood. I'm
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dying to myself. I'm reading my Bible. I'm being kind with my kids. I'm wiping bottoms. I'm dealing
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with, you know, teenage angst and hormones. And I just kind of feel like I'm not getting anywhere.
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Can you give me some encouragement that this is worth it, that this is like taking me somewhere,
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that this is going to produce fruit. And so as I was typing out an Instagram post to address one of
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these DMs that I'd gotten are like a deluge of them, really, because it feels like there are
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themes. Do you get that where DMs seem to come in like threads? In ways. It's like, are y'all all
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seeing the same thing that's inspiring you to ask this question? Maybe it's something that went viral.
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Who knows? But I think in this case, it was just a bunch of weary moms that needed encouragement and
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hope. And I ended the post and I was like, I need an emphatic statement, like that there's no doubt
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about where I stand on whether this is worth it or not. And immediately the phrase like,
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you bet your because I'm Texas. Yeah, I'm in Texas. So I was like, you bet your but no,
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that hasn't. And really, what just came out was you bet your stretch marks, because
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while not everyone has stretch marks, I personally, that's not how my body responded. It popped out
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some varicose veins, you know, but we all have, whether we are bio moms, foster moms, step moms,
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adoptive moms, there's going to be wear and tear on our bodies from carrying kids from bending over
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and washing those babies in the bathtub, whatever it is. But more than that, there's going to be
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marks on our souls. There's going to be marks on our emotions and our minds. And the world tells us
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that's a bad thing, that those marks are things that we should erase, that we should try to scrub
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and repair and make shiny again. And sometimes you do like you get varicose vein surgery so that you
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can walk better and feel a little better. There's nothing wrong with that. But that phrase just
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popped into my mind. And I was like, what a great metaphor for the way that motherhood stretches,
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I'm assuming every single one of us that experiences it to our limits and beyond.
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Yeah, gosh, there was so much change that I noticed in my body with my first pregnancy. And it's a little
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bit hard at first. Because, you know, you think, I guess that you're the only woman ever whose body
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won't change. And then you put a lot of pressure on yourself or some people do to, you know, bounce
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back to look exactly like you did before to try to basically erase all signs and signals of pregnancy.
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And you realize, especially after you have more and more kids, that it's never going to be exactly
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the same. And you do have to come to terms with that, that that's okay. It's almost feels like
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even just the physical aspect of it feels like a way to die to yourself and a way to deny yourself
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and to let go of the things that you thought were so important, which is a perfect body or a perfect
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figure or looking like your 18 year old self forever. And you just realize as you look at your
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kids and you see the stretching that they've done in so many ways, that it's worth it. It's worth every
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change. Yeah, 100%. My friend Brittany has this great phrase that I have just stolen from her
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wholesale, which is our bodies are tools, not treasures. And I think what I'm not big into
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blaming society for where we end up mentally. But we have to acknowledge all of the pressures and all
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of the messaging that we're getting constantly from social media and from media in general,
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which is that we're supposed to be doing everything possible to preserve our current best state when
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we're young. But the Bible says to offer up yourselves as a living sacrifice, holy and
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pleasing to God. This is your spiritual act of worship. It's a very physical act of worship too.
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It's a complete paradigm shift. So if we think rather than trying to hoard every bit of beauty and health
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and firmness and bounce that we can, that we are using that up for the glory of God and for the benefit
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of our families and then the greater world, man, does that change the way your mind sees the lines
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and wrinkles and stretch marks and sags and honestly that we're going to happen anyway. Even if you don't
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have kids, you don't get to keep the perky forever. You hoard a treasure, you use a tool and tools can be
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used to build and to grow other things that last. Whereas treasure, when it's hoarded and when it's kept,
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it doesn't do anything. And actually the Bible talks about storing up earthly treasure. Moth and
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rust are going to destroy that. But if we're using, whether it's our money, our body, our words,
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as tools to build up a legacy that lasts, to advance the kingdom of heaven, well then you're actually
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making an investment that lasts forever rather than one that's going to die when we do.
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A hundred percent. Absolutely. And the Bible is really clear that it's not going to last. Charm is
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deceptive. Beauty is fading. But a woman who fears the Lord and part of fearing the Lord is saying,
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what does the Lord require of me to do good, to love justice, to love mercy, and to follow the Lord
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all the days of our lives? Man, well then in that case, there's nothing wrong with taking care of this
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temple. That's another T word that describes our bodies that God has given us to worship him with,
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Okay. Let's talk about for a second, like the mommy makeovers that you hear about. And I think that
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this is even a discussion among Christian women. Like, okay, we've got stewardship of our body.
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We're supposed to eat healthy. We're supposed to exercise. We're supposed to treat our bodies with
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dignity and respect. I mean, the Holy Spirit lives here. That's a really big deal. We're going to have
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a resurrection of the bodies one day. Jesus came bodily. Obviously, God really cares about our body.
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I think that can sometimes be confused though, with vanity, you know, um, with doing things just
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for the purpose of maintaining the look of youth or a particular aesthetic. And so you hear about,
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you know, like either breast augmentation or breast lift or different kinds of rejuvenation
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or Botox or fillers or facelifts. Like, do you think, especially when it comes to the difficulty
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that birth and pregnancy puts our bodies through, like, what do you think the conversation should
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be like among Christian women about that kind of plastic surgery and those procedures?
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I think we can start kind of where we just were, which is tools versus treasures, because the Bible
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says where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. And almost everything you just listed
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is incredibly expensive. So if we're talking about a mom, for example, there's nothing wrong with,
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using whatever earthly treasure God has entrusted you with to buy quality clothing, to buy, like,
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I love buying Adele makeup. I know you love their makeup as well. It's clean. It's good for my skin.
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It's nice to feel fresh and ready for the day when I wear it. And there are people that could argue
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with me that that, that doesn't qualify too. But when you talk about spending a significant portion
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of your family's income in the pursuit of preserving something that would not naturally stay that way,
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and you're trying to turn back the hands of time, I think it's very easy for that to become a drain on
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your family, for it to become an obsession, for it to become a maintenance thing, because if you're
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going to fill it once, it's going to start sagging again. In some cases, you're talking about not
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stewarding your temple well, because for example, breast implants, they can cause you to be very
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sick. Botox is called tox because it's a neurotoxin. And you can have some really bad side
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effects from that. So it's kind of one of those things that requires discernment. It's not necessarily
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a hard and fast right or wrong. But for me personally, I'm going to land on that's not where I want my
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family's money to go. That's not what I want to put in my body. And it's also not where I want to
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mentally focus, because I know I can quickly spiral into self-obsession if I do go there.
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Yeah. And I think it's just like with so many things, is that before we make any decision,
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especially one that is expensive, especially one that alters our body, it's good to ask ourselves
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why. And because I can hear people saying, well, I had this issue with my breast tissue, or I had this
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issue that I needed a plastic surgery for. And try not to project the exceptions that you might truly
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represent into a conversation about generalities and principles. We're speaking in principle here.
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But anytime we're making a major decision, I think it's important for all of us, every single one of
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us to say, why am I doing this? Why am I putting this on my body? Why am I making this investment?
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Is it to be a good steward? Is it important for the stewardship and the health of this outer shell?
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Or is it because I want people to think this about me? Or because I want this person to desire me?
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And all of those are really good opportunities for us to ask Jesus, like, can you show me? Like,
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what is my motivation? What's my heart behind this? And help me only do the thing that is
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about your glory. That's just a part of sanctification.
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It is. And Jesus says himself that from the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks. So
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when I find myself, and my husband is quick to correct me on this, because he finds me very
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beautiful, even when I find a lot of flaws. And he says, you're prettier now than you were 20 years
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ago when I married you. And he means it. I can easily like roll my eyes and say, oh, you're just
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saying that. Oh, you know, keeping the peace. He means it. And so I have to be willing to listen to
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the voices of truth in my life and acknowledge those and not roll my eyes and instead almost
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elevate my own wisdom or my own self-focus above what the people that love me are saying, which is
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you're it's that kind of trite thing, but you're perfect just the way you are. I love you like for
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who you are. I know not everybody has those voices in their life, though, and that would make it harder,
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I think. Which is why listening to your creator is so important because it's one thing when your
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husband's like, you're perfect the way you are. I wouldn't change anything. It's another thing when
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you might just see an influencer say that on Instagram and you're like, well, that person
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doesn't really know me. They don't know what I look like. They don't know my personality. Or they look
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great and I don't look like her, so I can't take her seriously. Yeah, exactly. But the beautiful thing
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is, is that like our worth and value as Christians is fixed on Jesus, who is the same yesterday, today
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and forever, how we feel about ourselves, what other people say about us, what the internet has to
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say. They're all very fickle and they're based on all these superficial things, but that's important,
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especially as moms, as our bodies change through these seasons, that God's love for us, which is fixed
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on Jesus, never ever changes and it never undulates. And that's really where your confidence has to come
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from, no matter what the voices are saying in your life. Yeah, and I think it's so significant when we have
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this conversation about appearance, about the way that our bodies change, about kind of that humbling
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experience of recognizing you're not going to be the one person in history who never has any effect on you
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from having become a mother, however that happens. We have to recognize that the Bible made it very clear that
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Jesus had no beauty in himself outwardly, that anyone should desire him for how he looked. That was not by
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accident. The Lord designed it that way because he knows that man looks on the outward appearance,
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but he's looking on the heart. That's exactly right.
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Okay, I want to look at this TikTok trend that I saw. It's a lot of young moms talking about
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what they look like pre-pregnancy and how they feel and what they look like post-pregnancy. This is Sop5.
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Okay, so that is something that I've seen a lot of people do. They're showing the before and after.
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Most of them that I've seen, it seems like they're trying to communicate,
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this was really bad for me. This is really bad for my body. I don't think they're saying they
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don't love their babies, but I think they are saying, watch out because this is going to ruin
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your figure. Yep. Yeah. I've definitely seen a lot of this.
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Yeah. So what should the Christian message be to women like that? It's like, well,
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Oh, so, okay. I love that you're talking about this because in You Bet Your Stretch Marks,
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I address almost this exact thing. Let me see if I can find the spot really quickly.
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In a chapter called, it's not destruction, it's development.
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And I think so much of the Christian life is a perspective shift. The Bible calls it renewing
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our minds, not just some sort of like self-help, like I'm going to think of it as a positive thing
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to wake up at 5 a.m. instead of, you know, I'm going to die from lack of sleep or whatever.
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It's not just affirmations or some sort of like manifestation. It's the truth that when we renew
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our minds with scripture, it actually changes the way we view things and receive things that
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are happening to us. And so this whole chapter, I started out saying, similar to the uptick in
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chatter about child-free living, a rising trend on social media is to talk about the complexity
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or nuance surrounding the question of whether to have children. And then it goes on to talk about
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this TikTok where the woman is kind of like contorting herself and like kind of making all these faces
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and flooding her hands. The idea is like women, like addressing the complexity of the thought of
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having children because it can ruin your body, soul, and career, or maybe not soul, but like your
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Absolutely. Your identity is gone. It's wholly taken up and wrapped up in this child.
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And the good thing about a Christian mom should be that she knows whose she is and that her identity
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is hidden with Christ and God. And so when you can think of it in those terms, like we've already
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talked about like the idea of a tool, not a treasure. So that's a perspective shift, number one.
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But if you can think of it in terms of renewing your mind to run from this concept that this is
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ruining you, but instead that it is transforming you into the likeness of Christ, who was not,
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we just said, an attractive person. He was not concerned with the outward appearance.
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So when we are being transformed into the likeness of Christ, our loveliness and our beauty and our
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worth and our identity and the development of our minds and our souls are going to be on a trajectory
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that's defined by heaven, not by TikTok. And ultimately, what you end up with is
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a much better definition of beauty and whether something is worth it. I actually go on in that
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chapter and talk about some really practical things that motherhood does for you. When it
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changes our minds, when it changes our bodies, the way that it helps us manage our time, become more
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resilient. Studies that have been done that say that it minimizes your chances of multiple sclerosis,
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of Alzheimer's, of different kinds of cancer. Like it's not just taking from you in any possible way.
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There are so many things that motherhood literally physically and mentally adds to your life as well.
00:21:12.100
Yeah. Can we talk about that a little bit more? Because I could definitely give my list of the
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ways that I think that it has just practically made me a better and more efficient person. So many things.
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Yeah. So I used to deal with a great deal of self-loathing for how I wasn't managing my time
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well. It was really hard on myself. And some of that was condemnation from Satan. And some of it
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was Holy Spirit conviction saying, you actually aren't managing this super well. You were ending
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the day frazzled and feeling like you got nothing done, not simply because you have small children,
00:21:47.680
but also because you did not make the main things the main things today, Abby.
00:21:53.660
Yeah, exactly. And it wasn't because I was worshiping at the feet of Jesus either. It was
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probably because I was spending way too much time trying to find like-
00:22:05.500
No, more like just neither. More like I should have gotten my dishes done and I'm mad at myself
00:22:12.240
that I didn't. But I also was trying to find a good deal on like a chair while we were building
00:22:17.240
a house, you know, and I spent an hour on that kind of obsessing over it. And then, okay,
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a good deal on a chair is worth only how much of your time, right?
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And then you end the day frustrated that you didn't order your time well. And I rarely end
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the day feeling that way anymore. Not because I'm some great machine of time organization and
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productivity, but because I've grown in the maturity as I've had more children because I've had
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to. If I didn't, things would be chaos in my home all the time. So I've had to learn how
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to be an expert at mom math going, this is what I have in my day. I have to work backwards from
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there. I cannot scroll on my phone for an hour in the morning and expect to enter my day
00:23:02.460
successfully. I also will have missed my quiet time with the Lord. We're not going to call
00:23:09.540
It doesn't have to be quiet and alone when you have kids, especially.
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Right. In fact, I think corporately reading to them is one of the best ways to get in
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God's word. And so that's a huge room for me. I have grown so much in time management.
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I think there's almost this thing that moms do nowadays on social media where they say,
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I'm actually worse at things and I know less than I used to. I think it's a form of false
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humility. I get that they're trying to say, I now know what I didn't know. You know,
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I recognize I'm not in control. But sometimes it ends up coming across as like, you know what,
00:23:48.680
this hasn't helped me at all. And I'm worse than where I started off. And I don't find that
00:23:54.220
to be personally true. And I don't find that to be true of the women that I admire. I feel like
00:23:59.280
they're not going on bragging about how much better they are, but it's not bragging to simply say,
00:24:04.120
man, the Lord did a number on me and I had to learn some things to not fall back in that hole
00:24:09.080
over and over again. And my home is more peaceful as a result of it. I'm grateful for that.
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Can you talk practically about some principles that you abide by to ensure that you're keeping
00:25:32.460
the main things the main things and that you can feel at the end of the day like,
00:25:36.960
yeah, I accomplished what the Lord needed me to accomplish today?
00:25:40.120
Yeah, I feel like I'm really big and people that have heard me talk on podcasts know that
00:25:44.280
the next word I'm going to say is rhythms. If you can, I really encourage people to sit down
00:25:50.080
and write down what they do on three days of the week. Then start to notice patterns in the big
00:25:58.200
things that emerge. And then try to work backwards from that to see some strategies that would help
00:26:06.100
them prioritize those things. So for me, it's going to be God's word. It's going to be teaching my
00:26:12.720
children. It's going to be exercise. It's going to be time spent with my family. And it's going to
00:26:17.000
be work. And so, you know, if I find things. Yeah. That doesn't mean that I am having coffee
00:26:24.780
with friends that day. Probably can't write that I've rolled all those out. It doesn't mean that my
00:26:29.460
house is perfectly clean. It doesn't mean that I'm completely caught up on laundry. But that's going
00:26:35.100
to be in there somewhere because part of that's work, right? I'm not saying all paid work. I'm saying
00:26:39.800
sometimes it's just the work of running your home well. Yeah. And so at least four of those things
00:26:46.920
probably are going to happen every single day when you see those rhythms. So for example, one thing
00:26:53.060
that I do, I get up in the morning, try to make sure I'm not looking at my phone. I'll get sunlight
00:26:57.120
in my eyes unless I absolutely have to answer something that's that's immediate. I'm not looking
00:27:02.020
at my phone first thing. I have to walk through our laundry room to get downstairs. And so I either
00:27:07.740
change out the load from the night before or put a load in and start one. Just because then it's
00:27:13.160
going and I don't have to think about it, right? I do have to think about it again later because we
00:27:16.980
run more than one load of laundry a day at our house for sure. But that's just a practical thing.
00:27:21.700
Check. It took three minutes and I took it off my brain and it's work. Like that's the thing that I
00:27:26.960
did. I go downstairs. I do my Bible reading. I start breakfast. I'll probably have some children with
00:27:32.260
me helping with that. We'll do family Bible reading. Then we're going to start school.
00:27:36.120
Um, each day is a little bit different of course, but I've already hit quite a few of my top five
00:27:41.780
rhythms in there. And, um, and then the one that I probably struggle with the most in this season of
00:27:48.560
my life is rest. Like I, I, I'm not the best at it at the moment. Um, I'd like to be better,
00:27:55.580
but sometimes I think there are seasons where the Lord just says, just keep going. Like the rest is
00:28:00.520
coming. And, and we do, we do rest on Sundays. Like we don't, we don't schedule things on Sundays. We,
00:28:06.120
spend time together as a family. So I have that.
00:28:08.700
Can you talk about that a little bit more? What does your Sabbath look like on Sunday?
00:28:11.660
Yeah. So we get up and do the Sunday morning hustle to get everybody, um, dressed and ready
00:28:17.520
to go breakfast, eat and all that stuff. Our church starts. Oh, well, Sunday school starts
00:28:22.000
at nine 30. So, um, no, it starts at nine. We're probably closer to nine 30 when we get there.
00:28:28.060
My husband's not a huge fan of small talks, so we're not even trying to get there exactly at
00:28:32.340
nine. I wouldn't say we do the talking afterwards. Usually, um, the one where they start flicking
00:28:37.100
the lights, like people leave the building. You can stop talking now. Um, so we do Sunday school
00:28:41.780
in church and then we will usually either go out to eat, which is controversial, believe it or not,
00:28:46.720
because some people think that you should not make other people work on the Sabbath if they're
00:28:50.440
thinking in terms of like more of an old Testament perspective. And, um, so we'll usually either go out
00:28:57.040
to eat or I will have something prepared at home and we'll go home and eat. We take naps every single
00:29:01.620
Sunday. No, you don't have one. You don't have to sleep. You do have to do something. Yeah. Um,
00:29:07.320
especially the little kids. If my older kids want to go outside and play on our sport court,
00:29:10.600
like they can, that's their form of rest. And you're young, you're, uh, little boys,
00:29:15.200
your twins are how old they're for four. Yeah. And then, uh, and they'll, they'll be five very soon.
00:29:19.900
And then my oldest is 19 and everybody's about two years apart unless they're seven or eight minutes
00:29:24.740
apart in between. Um, and then we will usually, um, eat leftovers or we'll all pitch in for dinner
00:29:32.600
on Sundays. So my husband might grill steaks while my kids help make sides. And one of my kids will
00:29:37.420
make bread or all be doing something over here making the guacamole while my older son is making
00:29:42.120
the potatoes. And it's just very, you know, collaborative. Yeah. And, um, we'll watch
00:29:47.460
something together as a family. Um, when all creatures great and small is going, that's our Sunday night
00:29:51.200
treat. Um, we love that series. And then, um, for a while there, I tried to implement Sunday night
00:29:58.680
was the one night everybody, including the older kids, like had to be in their rooms by like a
00:30:02.800
decent time. And honestly, just organically, we'd rather spend time with our older kids. Like I was
00:30:08.520
like, I just need to like to reset. And my husband was like, yeah, but I'm leaving on a work trip
00:30:13.980
tomorrow. So can they stay up? And so I realized I was imposing something on my family that wasn't
00:30:18.400
serving us. So I just gave it up and we just hang out. Yeah. And everyone sits down together for
00:30:24.760
dinner. I'm guessing maybe not for breakfast and lunch every day, but for dinner every day,
00:30:30.700
that's a priority for you. That is a big priority. It's not every day anymore with older children in
00:30:34.840
the house. I think being flexible about those things is key because we have already established
00:30:40.840
that as a really strong priority in our home and our older kids, if they have games or work are going
00:30:46.600
to be there like anytime that they can. So it's more often than not. Yeah. But yeah, most evenings,
00:30:53.220
everybody now it's funny because we have a dining room table and I have a rug under it and people are
00:30:57.840
like, how in the world does the rug stay clean? One, it doesn't. I think Instagram just, I mean,
00:31:02.460
like without even like, without even like trying to make it look cleaner, the picture just makes it
00:31:06.560
look cleaner. You know, it has plenty of junk on it, but we also don't eat at the dining room table
00:31:11.540
every night. We eat around our giant kitchen Island. It's just a habit. Like we all pull up
00:31:15.920
stools and we're around this 12 foot by five foot Island almost every night. That's what we do.
00:31:20.860
Yeah. Yeah. I did have a rug under our kitchen table. And then I was like, why didn't, why?
00:31:26.380
I have, you know, I have little ones and I was like, it really doesn't add anything. And so
00:31:31.640
that rug went bye-bye and it's made my life a lot easier.
00:31:36.540
Not the Woody rug. It was from Ruggable. You know, my husband and I just remembered that the other day
00:31:41.860
because we started talking about our runner. If people don't know this story, we have like a
00:31:47.220
runner in the front of our house. The reason we started talking about it is because my six year
00:31:50.020
old was asking if she can make a slip and slide in our house. And we were like, no. And, but then
00:31:55.340
we started thinking about, um, that. And if people don't know, I ordered this rug from Ruggable that
00:32:01.500
was a neutral rug. I did not see that it was a toy story themed rug. Seriously. Why would it be a toy
00:32:08.320
story themed rug when it was cream? I don't know. And how did I not see that? I don't know,
00:32:12.880
but I got it. And I looked at it. I was like, is that Woody? And it was like Woody with a lasso.
00:32:19.080
Yes. Whatever the girl is, Jesse. And yeah, the designs are actually Woody's lasso. And I did send
00:32:27.280
it back and I got a great like regular rug, but yes, I don't even know. I guess we were just talking
00:32:33.220
about rugs underneath the table and silly things. And for some people it's worth it. And some people's
00:32:38.060
like me aesthetically, I want that under there. And if we trash it, we trash it. Like, yeah, I'll
00:32:42.920
scrub it. Right. Um, okay. Something that you were talking about a few minutes ago about moms who
00:32:49.160
go on social media and they say, uh, you know, I don't know as much anymore, or you hear about mom
00:32:55.340
brain a lot. So I was reading about this the other day that when you become pregnant and after you're
00:33:00.300
pregnant, especially in those early years, that the gray matter in your brain reduces. However, that this
00:33:06.480
is not responsible for being more forgetful or anything like that. That's probably just people
00:33:10.940
are tired and they have more responsibilities. It actually is a process. You might already know
00:33:16.420
this called synaptic refinement. When your brain is being refined and adapted to focus on the things
00:33:24.500
that you really need to focus on. So you talk about this. I'll let you fit. I'll let you keep going
00:33:30.500
on that. So it's this concept that the centers of our brain that are required for executive function,
00:33:36.960
um, orderliness and for time management and for productivity actually become prioritized. God
00:33:44.600
designed women to do this, which is why when someone hears that you as a mom with three small
00:33:50.980
children get this, this, and this done in a day. And if they don't have children, they can't imagine
00:33:55.140
doing such a thing. One, it's probably just, they don't have the urgency of, I have to get this done
00:34:00.300
because nap time is almost over. That's a really good motivator, right? And two, there actually might
00:34:05.280
be something different about their brain that hasn't changed that way yet in, I mean, if they
00:34:09.860
become a mom. And C.S. Lewis used to say that worrying is picturing the future without God's grace
00:34:15.940
in it. Oh, that's good. And that is the same thing without, with like anxiety or fear. We discount the
00:34:22.580
fact that God is suspended in the eternal now. So his grace and his presence and his Holy Spirit is
00:34:28.820
always in the now. It's not in this future place, which doesn't actually exist. God actually exists.
00:34:33.840
So he can't exist in a place that doesn't exist. And so that like worry, and you're thinking, I could
00:34:39.460
never do that, or that person's going through that, or they're suffering or sacrificing. I could never do
00:34:44.000
that. Well, God's Holy Spirit is going to prepare you for the things that he has for you.
00:34:49.280
Absolutely. I talk about that in here too, not just with how your brain works or how it might
00:34:53.640
do something, but I say basically that when we dread a certain stage of our children's lives,
00:34:59.300
whether it's becoming teenagers, which I love teenagers, so please don't dread that,
00:35:03.780
or toddlerhood when they, you know, the terrible twos or the three-nager or whatever they want to
00:35:08.540
throw at you or newborn or preteens, whatever stage someone has vilified. When we dread that,
00:35:15.100
it adds nothing to our experience and it takes away a great deal of our confidence
00:35:20.280
in the Lord's sovereignty. It takes a great deal of a way of our hope for a good future.
00:35:27.280
And like Psalm 27, 13 is one of my favorite. I'm confident of this. I will still see the goodness
00:35:31.960
of the Lord in the land of the living. You're still living. Your kids are still living. You're
00:35:35.980
going to see the Lord's goodness in every stage and age. And even if it does come to pass that you
00:35:41.580
have a teenager that does every single thing that social media tells you they're going to,
00:35:46.480
you're worrying about it leading up to it will not have made you better at this.
00:35:51.000
It won't have prepared you. It will simply have made you like white knuckling your way through it
00:35:56.900
instead of trusting God. So yeah, I love that C.S. Lewis quote. That's good.
00:36:00.500
Yeah. I might've, I don't know if that's an exact quote or a paraphrase,
00:36:03.460
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Okay, speaking of worry, there is a phobia that I had never heard of before that is apparently going
00:37:39.360
around on social media, motivating women either to not get pregnant or to try to hire a surrogate. And
00:37:47.940
it's called tokophobia, which tokos is Greek for mother. So that actually would mean like fear of
00:37:54.000
motherhood. But I think it's specifically applied to birth. And there's someone talking about it on
00:38:00.260
tiktok. I think is it stop for? Okay, stop for. Can I just be honest with y'all for a second?
00:38:06.660
The only reason why I don't want to have a child because I am scared to give birth.
00:38:13.360
Oh my goodness. That's so embarrassing to say because I know like, obviously, oh, you're,
00:38:18.120
you know, our body is made for that. But I'm scared. Like, am I the only one who feel like
00:38:23.080
that about childbirth? Okay, so I saw this other post by someone that I follow of an email she got,
00:38:30.640
she said, I've been formally diagnosed by a psychiatrist with tokophobia, which makes it
00:38:34.700
impossible for me to undergo pregnancy and childbirth. Is this a justification for surrogacy?
00:38:40.100
So I don't think that that woman on tiktok, that's a separate person, but I don't think she
00:38:44.720
should be embarrassed. I think it's normal. Oh, absolutely. I talk about I have all my birth
00:38:49.920
stories on my podcast, because I don't know, people just eat those. I love that. Oh, I need
00:38:53.780
to go listen to those. I love birth stories. Well, there's a lot on there because I've had a lot of
00:38:56.900
babies. Yes. And with my number eight, so back up to number seven, and I typically have these long
00:39:02.540
pokey labors, like from start to finish, starting contraction that never ends to finish is like
00:39:07.220
anywhere between 20 and 40 hours. Yeah. And so I ended up having water breaking with number seven,
00:39:13.540
but then my body just like was like, I'm not ready. I'm not ready. And then it finally was.
00:39:17.960
And in three hours, I had him. So I'd been in labor on and off for a while. But then like,
00:39:22.600
the really hard part was three hours, tons of back labor had never had back labor that strongly before.
00:39:27.940
And I was in a tub. And I remember my husband trying to pull me out. And my I couldn't talk,
00:39:32.260
which normally between contractions, even when they're really intense, like once they've waned,
00:39:36.140
you can ask for water, you can make a joke, like a new person. Yes. I could not utter words in
00:39:42.660
between these contractions. They were on top of each other. I, the only thing I could do was pray,
00:39:47.780
Lord, please take the next one because I cannot do this anymore. Keep in mind, this is my seventh
00:39:51.640
baby. I've already done this a lot. And one time, two babies in a row. Right. No C-sections,
00:39:57.120
by the way. No, no C-sections, which I mean, praise God for that miracle. Yes. You just didn't have
00:40:02.720
that. I didn't. So I have this baby and I've never had a baby come out of me without pushing before,
00:40:10.940
but like my body was just in the throes. Of course, the moment he's out, everything's great.
00:40:16.220
I feel so much better. I'm good. Yeah. Until I am a couple of weeks out from having number eight
00:40:22.040
and I start having significant anxiety in the evenings as the sun goes down and it was going
00:40:28.540
down early because he was born in January, uh, February. Um, the sun goes down. I start to
00:40:34.880
like a vices on my chest and I start to be shallow breathing. So I was reading scripture cards every
00:40:40.760
single night. This is my number eight. And what's, what's the thing called? Tocophobia.
00:40:45.060
And I have tocophobia. I mean, I am like, I can't do this again. Like I can't. And I actually had the
00:40:53.120
closest thing. I don't know that I would call it a full blown panic or anxiety attack, but I had the
00:40:56.800
closest thing I've ever had where I woke up contracting in the middle of the night, which I'd been doing for
00:41:01.060
weeks and then it would stop. It was really strong contractions, woke up in the middle of a
00:41:05.300
contraction and could not catch my breath. My heart started racing and I had to like slap my husband
00:41:10.900
and be like, not, you know, not like whack across the, but like slap my hand at him to wake him up
00:41:16.820
and say, I need it. I need you to like compression, hug me and pray out loud. And, um, just, it took
00:41:23.740
minutes to calm down. So as someone who's given birth a lot and knows I'm perfectly capable of it,
00:41:29.500
I've, I've never had to go to a C-section, praise God. It still can be really scary.
00:41:36.520
But I think the problem is that the mindset that is feeding this is hard things are bad things.
00:41:45.980
Hard is not the same thing as bad. That's my second book.
00:41:49.400
That's true. Sometimes it can be, but sometimes it's just understandable that we would fear,
00:41:55.740
but that it gives us an opportunity to cast our, our fear on the one who, you know, is courage himself.
00:42:02.960
Yeah. Our, um, our sermon in church this past Sunday was on Psalm 23. And most of you out there
00:42:10.900
know that, but if you don't, it's about the Lord being our good shepherd. And there's just so much
00:42:15.960
within that passage of God being a good shepherd that gives us protection, that gives us provision,
00:42:21.140
that doesn't necessarily lead us around the valley of the shadow of death. It's through the valley of
00:42:28.280
the shadow of death. It doesn't mean there will be no more predators. There will, that doesn't mean
00:42:32.740
that we'll have no enemy, that there will be no danger. All of those can exist, but God leads us
00:42:38.380
through it. And also this is maybe an aside that I'm not sure if it totally applies here, but one part
00:42:44.540
that stuck out to me this time that had never stuck out to me, uh, one verse says,
00:42:48.940
surely goodness and mercy will follow me all the days of my life. And so we've got God as our
00:42:53.780
shepherd leading us, but then what is coming in from behind goodness and mercy. And if something
00:42:59.080
is following us, we don't always see what it's doing because it's behind us. And yet it is completing
00:43:05.940
the good work that God has set out for us. And so I think when we're picturing birth or picturing
00:43:10.720
pregnancy, and I'm even, you know, talking to myself, I have a lot of fear surrounding all of that,
00:43:14.820
having done it three times already. It's like, I can trust that God is a good shepherd,
00:43:19.600
that he's going to lead me where he wants to lead me. Not that it's going to be perfect or easy.
00:43:23.720
And also that his goodness and his mercy will follow me and will accomplish in and through and
00:43:28.940
behind and around me everything that God wants them to accomplish.
00:43:32.780
Yeah. And that it's going to look as he plans, because sometimes it doesn't look like goodness and
00:43:39.920
mercy on the front end. You know, I always, I always joke that people like, okay, you've done
00:43:45.760
all these natural births and no pain meds or whatever. And home or hospital? Both. Okay. So
00:43:52.280
I've done all of it. So my, my first was born in a hospital. I didn't really even know anything about
00:43:56.400
home birth, but I did it without pain meds. And I was kind of strapped to a bed, like not actually,
00:44:02.060
but like I couldn't get up. I wasn't, I think I was maybe hooked up to some sort of monitors.
00:44:07.240
And I thought my back would break because I was doing labor on my back in a bed without pain
00:44:12.500
meds. And I felt like a crazy person. And so the second was like, never want to do that again. I
00:44:18.840
need to be able to move. And so I had him at home, third at home, my best birth. Once it finally
00:44:25.020
kicked in, it was two days of stop, start nonsense. But once it finally kicked in, my best birth was
00:44:28.440
my first set of twins and they were at home. And like the closest thing to a painless birth I've ever
00:44:33.300
had, it was uncomfortable, but like the intense, like, yeah, I can't do this anymore. Lord didn't
00:44:38.460
really have any of that. They both came really well. Um, and then my number six and seven were
00:44:44.980
at home. Eight ended up in, that was the one that had so much anxiety over. The coolest thing about
00:44:50.900
that story is that I'm on a, I have a sonogram on my belly. I'm 42 weeks in three days. I always go
00:44:56.280
long. And I know we've talked about this. It's like, man, they like to cook. Yeah. And, um, I am
00:45:03.260
dead to the world. I'm so emotionally and physically and mentally and spiritually exhausted. I'm like
00:45:08.020
staring in the corner while the, the sonographer tries to make jokes and I am just like dead.
00:45:12.860
Yeah. And my midwife was trying to reach me cause I'm normally not like this at all, obviously. And
00:45:20.080
she said, what if you had him here? I literally started having contractions. My body was like,
00:45:24.980
I can't go back home and have this baby. So I just didn't leave. I had him at the birth center
00:45:29.180
and it was a great birth. And then my last two were in the hospital cause it was COVID and they
00:45:33.340
had to be, but yeah, I've done it all. You've done it all. Yeah. And so for the woman who is
00:45:39.960
fearful, who maybe she's already pregnant or maybe the woman who is scared to get pregnant
00:45:45.140
because of all that could happen. Like if you had her in front of you right now and you only had a
00:45:50.200
few seconds to talk to her, what would you say? I would say that baby is worth every
00:45:54.540
single contraction, every single aching hip, every single stretched out boob. Like it's worth
00:46:00.980
all of it. It is an eternal soul that you get to actually shepherd and guide and invest in who will
00:46:08.840
then go on and hopefully do that for future generations. What could be better than that?
00:46:13.280
Yeah. And it's such a gospel metaphor too, because we have our own stretch marks. If you're a
00:46:21.040
biological mom, you might have stretch marks of the body. If you're an adoptive mom or a foster
00:46:26.880
mom, like you've got stretch marks of the heart and the soul and your will and the self by the way,
00:46:31.980
but it's a metaphor for the gospel because like by Jesus's stripes, we are healed by the stripes that
00:46:39.380
we saw on his outward body. We can look to that and we see healing. Like we see our justification
00:46:45.580
and salvation. And I'm not saying that moms are the same thing as Jesus, but we learn so much about
00:46:51.660
how suffering and sacrifice and different kinds of stripes do lead to the birth of life, like a new
00:47:00.160
person, a new creation and growth and nourishment. And we may not be Jesus. We are not, for sure.
00:47:07.020
There's no question there. There's no may not, but we will be quite likely the most constant and
00:47:14.800
obvious representation of Jesus' love for our children to our children, which is really sobering.
00:47:23.020
So no, we cannot save our children, but we can show them the gospel in the way that we love them
00:47:27.560
and sacrifice ourselves for them just like Christ did for us.
00:47:30.060
Totally. And if you're someone who has had a traumatic birth already, I remember I had
00:47:35.280
for, I had two C-sections and then I had a V-back with my third baby. And, um, I remember I had a
00:47:41.600
physical therapist and my third, who was getting me ready for birth. And I was talking to her about
00:47:46.080
like, I was just really struggling mentally with having had two C-sections and difficult postpartum
00:47:51.740
and all of that. And she just reminded me, and this meant so much to me because I never thought
00:47:56.240
about it. She was like, I was like, yeah, you know, I still feel pain on my scar and that bothers me
00:48:02.340
because it's been two years. It scares me. And she was like, I just want to remind you that like
00:48:05.600
that scar will be healed in heaven. And I was like, I had never thought about that. Like,
00:48:10.780
I never thought about it as like a real injury that like God really cares about and is going to heal
00:48:17.320
and has like redemption eternally. I almost had the feeling like, well, you know, you have healthy
00:48:23.440
babies. You shouldn't even care about that. But the truth is, is like, you're not discounting or
00:48:28.480
dismissing the pain. You're saying that God is doing something good in it. Yeah. I don't think
00:48:33.340
that we serve moms by gaslighting them into pretending that hard things don't impact every
00:48:40.240
aspect of ourselves. That is the one thing that I think that the TikTokers are getting right.
00:48:45.100
It will affect you. But if you are surrendered to Christ, it will be a completely different outcome
00:48:50.940
than they're claiming that it will be. Next sponsor is Preborn. If you are looking for a way to
00:49:00.860
be involved in the pro-life movement, if you want to put your money, your treasure,
00:49:05.720
not just where your mouth is, but where your heart is, then it's time to donate to Preborn.
00:49:10.660
This is the organization that is supplying pregnancy centers across the country with the tools and the
00:49:17.540
resources they need to serve the pregnant women that come through their doors. So with sonogram
00:49:23.180
equipment, with all of the different tools that they need to make sure that these women are well
00:49:28.760
equipped to make the life affirming choice, that's why Preborn exists to breathe life into these
00:49:34.940
life-saving pregnancy centers. But they can only do that with your help. If you donate $28, or maybe you
00:49:41.140
can commit to just donating $28 a month, that is every month donating the cost of a free sonogram
00:49:50.740
for a pregnant woman in need. So every single month, you could be saving the life of an unborn
00:49:57.020
image bearer of God by donating just $28. Go to preborn.com slash Allie. Make your commitment
00:50:03.940
to that donation today. Go to preborn.com slash Allie. So what else do you talk about in your book
00:50:14.780
that you really want moms to hear? I want moms to hear what I just mentioned a little while ago,
00:50:21.000
that your actual thing that you're doing is not surviving today. It is setting yourself up for
00:50:30.660
children who have been loved and invested in with the Word of God, who then have the opportunity to
00:50:38.140
view parenthood as a positive thing because of your influence. Do that for their own children,
00:50:44.480
who then do that for their own children. This is a biblical principle. It's not just in the,
00:50:49.780
you know, creation mandate, going out and subduing the earth and dominion and filling the earth. A lot
00:50:55.280
of people, especially when you have a lot of kids like I do, are like, well, you're just trying to
00:50:59.480
fulfill some sort of Old Testament antiquated thing. You just, you know, didn't you know
00:51:03.060
how to stop when you were ahead? Quiverful theology. Yeah, that's right. Quiverful theology. Don't you
00:51:07.660
know what causes that and all that stuff? And it's like, well, I mean, I'm probably just as surprised
00:51:12.220
as anybody that I have 10 kids. Like the Lord did that. I didn't do that. But you are planting seeds.
00:51:20.540
The Bible says, you know, Paul plants, Apollos waters, God brings the harvest. But you are looking
00:51:27.200
forward to a harvest. You're not just potty training a kid. You're loving him. Well, while
00:51:32.420
you do that incredibly maddening process, because it can be sometimes. Yeah, I was just doing reading
00:51:37.840
with my six year old yesterday, and it was painstaking. It is more so for some kids than
00:51:42.840
others. Right. And so sometimes you just they drop that first letter on the word. And so you sit,
00:51:49.520
right? So it's it, it. And you're like, yeah, there was an S, you know, yeah, that process is
00:51:56.720
not just getting your child to the point of being able to comprehend words and sound them out. It's
00:52:02.140
giving him a tool to understand the gospel better. He can read his Bible once he's in all of that effort
00:52:06.760
that you've put in has an obvious harvest right there. Yeah, that every kid who learns to read will
00:52:12.220
will receive. Yeah. And then beyond that, you're giving him the ability to then read it to his
00:52:16.360
children after him. So I have a whole chapter, my mentor, one of my best friends, Jennifer Flanders,
00:52:21.760
who has 12 kids of her own, she's about 20 years ahead of me, said her favorite chapter in this
00:52:26.520
book is chapter 10. And it's a mothering with a legacy mindset, my mom. So at the end of every
00:52:32.320
one of my chapters, I invited 13 godly gone before Titus two women to contribute to the end of them.
00:52:37.780
Every single one of them said yes, which I felt like was the Lord ordaining it because you know,
00:52:42.740
my schedule doesn't allow I'm not really interested in that. I don't want you know,
00:52:45.860
every single one said, I'd be happy to and they were the right people for this job.
00:52:50.120
And so my mom contributes to the end of chapter 10. That's my friend Jennifer,
00:52:53.160
who also contributes favorite. And she said, I picture you on a white horse with a banner that
00:52:58.380
has some sort of symbol of motherhood on it charging back and forth saying, don't grow weary
00:53:02.640
of doing good. And even if you have looked in the Lord for strength, because your work matters now,
00:53:07.460
it matters tomorrow. And it matters for generations to come. Don't let anyone ever denigrate or diminish
00:53:13.140
that. This is incredible in what you can accomplish for your own soul with Christ. Because by the way,
00:53:22.000
if you don't accomplish some sort of generational legacy of Christianity, if you have obeyed God,
00:53:27.060
it is still worth it. But also you are setting your children up with incredible tools and a foundation
00:53:32.580
that is set on Christ alone. And that I mean, only you can do that really well. I mean, the best,
00:53:39.500
the best, there's all kinds of other resources, but you are uniquely gifted by God to do that. And
00:53:44.160
that's huge. Okay. With this anti-natalism push that's out there right now, kids are burdens,
00:53:51.400
they're getting in the way of travel schedules and all of that. If you were to give someone an
00:53:55.920
elevator pitch for why they should have, why they should have kids. I mean, you've done that pretty
00:54:00.960
well already, but what would be the summary of what would you, what would you say? They're married,
00:54:05.920
they're considering having kids, but they're afraid it's going to change their life a lot.
00:54:10.820
It's going to change your life a lot. And you want it to, because quite likely, if you continue
00:54:16.940
with the focus being on what something is going to take from you, rather than what it's going to add
00:54:22.380
to you, it will be a self-fulfilling prophecy. You will not have those things added to your life,
00:54:27.360
whether they be more time management, whether it be more self-discipline,
00:54:31.200
whether it be the joy of living for someone else and cheering for them, even if it's not your own
00:54:37.080
personal victory. I mean, how cool is that as a parent that we get to say, I lost sleep over
00:54:42.100
this. I'm in pain because of this, whatever, but I am seeing them succeed. I tell this story
00:54:48.340
in the book about how my son, Simon made his first three pointer after the night before he said he
00:54:53.780
couldn't. And I essentially gave him the bomb talk. And I said, yes, you can. If you keep
00:55:00.680
practicing, not you can do anything you want to be, anything you dream big, nothing like that.
00:55:05.000
Just be consistent, stay in it. And I got to watch him make the ugliest three pointer you have ever
00:55:10.880
seen in your life. And he turned around. This is a core memory of my life. Turned around and raced
00:55:15.880
back down the court and he pointed at me. And like, you told me I could do this. And I started crying
00:55:22.160
and screaming like a crazy person. I still do. One of the best moments of my life that I would never
00:55:27.640
have had if I didn't have my son, but also if I didn't give up some of my personal comfort and
00:55:33.840
going to these practices and these games, because sure, it's fun to watch them, but it's a lot of
00:55:37.540
work to get kids places and to do things for them and to pay for things. And so sure. Okay. Yeah.
00:55:46.360
You would actually gain a lot of me time, a trimmer waistline, more money in your bank, but you can't
00:55:53.940
take any of it to heaven with you. And I can't guarantee I can take my children to heaven with
00:55:57.640
me, but there's a chance. Yeah. And I am banking on it. And everything done in the life of the
00:56:04.300
believer for the glory of God echoes in eternity. Amen. So, and by the way, there is nothing better
00:56:12.680
than the feeling of the dead weight of a baby's head on your shoulder. That is so true. I mean,
00:56:17.680
I guess I could say, I can't say there's nothing better in the world than that, because there's lots
00:56:23.080
of things that God calls different Christians at different seasons of life. You're allowed to have
00:56:26.460
that opinion, Allie. Just state it. It is one of the best things. I mean, every time still like,
00:56:33.160
you know, my almost two year old, when I'm rocking her to sleep every night, she's got her head on
00:56:37.980
my shoulder. I'm like, dude, there is nothing better. My husband always says, I better be like
00:56:42.800
within access to everything that I need not to die because I'm not moving. Like if they never,
00:56:48.360
if they just keep sleeping forever, I'm not getting off this couch. There's a baby on my chest.
00:56:52.240
It is the best. So let me just tell you that. Let me encourage you with that. Abby,
00:56:58.320
thank you so much. Okay. Your book is out which day? September 2nd. September 2nd. Really soon.
00:57:03.540
People can pre-order now. Yeah. I'm assuming. And please do. Yes. Please pre-order wherever
00:57:08.020
books are sold. Then when you pre-order, you can guarantee it's going to get to your front door
00:57:11.800
right away. Yes. And Christianbook.com right now has 40% off and free shipping, which is like the best
00:57:17.240
deal you're going to get. Do it. Plus I have, um, I've created an ebook for all three of my books
00:57:22.320
each time and offered it as a pre-order offer, but like when you're pre-ordering and then afterwards
00:57:26.460
it goes for sale. So I, one of my biggest resources that people have asked for is all of the scripture
00:57:33.140
in my books categorized. Um, we did not pull that off because I think in one book alone, there's 187
00:57:39.460
scriptures, but there are over a hundred scriptures categorized for easy reference. When you're anxious,
00:57:44.660
when you're struggling with discernment, it's called the well-versed mama and you can get that
00:57:48.400
for free when you pre-order. Okay. Awesome. So we'll put the link so people can pre-order
00:57:52.580
because you book.com and, and Amazon, if you want to do that, then that's fine. Okay. Abby,