Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1246 ｜ Unbiblical Churches： A Pastor’s List of Red Flags ｜ Todd Wagner

00:00:00.800 Todd Wagner is a former pastor and author.

00:00:04.260 He founded a very large and influential church in Dallas, and now he runs a couple ministries.

00:00:09.660 One of them is the 1613 Project, and he is equipping pastors and believers to not only

00:00:15.260 be sober-minded, but match their faith with action.

00:00:18.240 And gosh, this episode is jam-packed with wisdom.

00:00:23.060 Wisdom for how to know if you are in a biblical church, why to leave your church, how to bring

00:00:27.940 concerns to your pastor in a way that is actually effective.

00:00:32.820 And he has a word for parents, especially in this moment as a father of six and a grandfather

00:00:39.240 of 13 grandkids.

00:00:40.960 He's got a whole lot of wisdom.

00:00:43.140 You are going to be so equipped and encouraged by our conversation today.

00:00:47.280 If you love Relatable, please subscribe on all of our platforms on YouTube, on Spotify, on

00:00:52.680 Google Play, Apple Podcasts.

00:00:54.200 Leave us a five-star review wherever you listen or watch.

00:00:56.680 It helps us out a whole lot.

00:00:57.940 This episode is brought to you by Olive.

00:00:59.700 Olive is the food scanning app to show you what is really in your food.

00:01:04.360 They are trying to make America healthy again.

00:01:06.240 They want us to take seriously the food choices that we make, especially in our grocery store.

00:01:11.340 They make grocery shopping for healthy food really, really easy.

00:01:14.560 Just go to the App Store and download Olive on the App Store today.

00:01:27.940 Todd, thanks so much for taking the time to join me.

00:01:31.600 It's a blast to be with you.

00:01:33.180 Yes.

00:01:33.660 Okay.

00:01:33.940 For those who may not know, can you tell us who you are and what you do?

00:01:37.080 All right.

00:01:37.800 I am friends of Allie Beth Stuckey.

00:01:39.300 Yes, most importantly.

00:01:40.460 Known you since you weren't a Stuckey. 0.96

00:01:42.200 Yes.

00:01:42.520 Briefly, but watch what God's done with you.

00:01:44.700 It's been really, really awesome to see.

00:01:46.240 So I started a little church called Watermark years ago and was there for about 23 years

00:01:52.660 and felt like that I needed to transition away from there in order to be able to continue

00:01:57.380 to be who I really was, and so now I'm involved just to continue doing everything I was doing

00:02:03.500 when I was leading that church and its campuses and now just doing it in a way that's probably

00:02:08.320 a little less public, but we grabbed a ministry name called Unhindered and then doing something

00:02:13.740 called the 1613 Project, which probably will relate to some of the stuff we talk about.

00:02:17.360 But what I love about the name Unhindered, right, it's the very last word in the book of

00:02:21.600 Acts, right?

00:02:23.020 Which it says, kind of ironically, when I left, I didn't have a place.

00:02:27.900 I went from having a massive place with lots of help to kind of being by myself, and Acts

00:02:31.700 ends by saying, for two years, Paul received people in rented quarters, welcoming all who

00:02:38.100 came to him, preaching the kingdom of God and teachings concerning the Lord Jesus, and

00:02:42.160 the word of God went forward with all openness, unhindered.

00:02:45.960 And I thought to myself, that's exactly who I am.

00:02:48.080 Whatever I do, I want to be associated with the word of God because that's what's going

00:02:51.740 to be unhindered.

00:02:52.380 Everything else is going to fail, right?

00:02:54.800 But the word of God is not going to, right?

00:02:57.780 Grass withers, flower fades, but the word of God will last forever.

00:03:02.420 So I thought, you know what?

00:03:03.340 Why don't I keep myself attached to that, and then we'll let God do whatever he wants

00:03:07.360 to do, right?

00:03:07.960 Yeah.

00:03:08.460 What a perfect word for this moment.

00:03:10.760 A lot of people are talking about revival right now, talking about an awakening in the

00:03:15.220 wake of Charlie's assassination.

00:03:17.580 I don't think any of us could have estimated just how much that would rock people who didn't

00:03:22.360 not know Charlie to their core on a global scale.

00:03:27.040 And a lot of people in my life and just in public have said, wow, I knew Charlie was a

00:03:30.860 Christian.

00:03:31.360 I did not know he was that kind of Christian.

00:03:33.740 Yeah.

00:03:33.980 I didn't know that he was preaching the gospel and he was an apologist and an evangelist and

00:03:38.260 all of these things.

00:03:38.980 Thankfully, I didn't know that.

00:03:40.660 But not everyone did, and it's causing a lot of people to say, what am I doing with

00:03:46.560 my life and where am I going after this?

00:03:48.780 Yeah.

00:03:49.040 Which is awesome.

00:03:50.120 Yeah.

00:03:50.440 Right?

00:03:50.780 And I mean, we both agree what happened was horrible.

00:03:54.120 It was tragic.

00:03:54.880 I mean, not just for Erica and the kids, but really for our country.

00:03:57.000 Yeah.

00:03:57.380 And for all those college kids and people that were paying attention to who Charlie was.

00:04:00.400 But what I love too, you know, I first, Charlie kind of came across my radar when he was committed

00:04:06.180 to conservatism.

00:04:07.040 Maybe even some would say Christless conservatism early on.

00:04:09.560 I mean, it wasn't as loud, right?

00:04:11.460 His, I think his last five years plus.

00:04:14.840 Yeah.

00:04:15.280 He definitely grew a lot in his evangelism and in his faith the last five years.

00:04:18.880 Where he just said, you know, listen, I'm going to be, I'm a follower of Christ first.

00:04:22.980 And maybe my conservatism flows out of that, right?

00:04:26.060 Like we said, I think he really, he became absolutely unapologetic about that, which I

00:04:30.900 think was the most beautiful part of what he did, you know?

00:04:33.780 And I think a lot of people paid attention to that.

00:04:37.100 I had so many people text me, you know, after this weekend, which, you know, when that, they

00:04:42.740 were just like, I never thought I would see so many of our nation's leaders and so many

00:04:46.920 people, you know, speak the way they did about Christ, not about God, not general God.

00:04:52.460 You know, and Charlie's the one that set him up for that in a lot of different ways.

00:04:55.120 I kind of responded back to him.

00:04:56.540 I go, hey, you know, have you been, you know, first Timothy two, one and two works, right?

00:05:01.120 Pray for kings and those that are in authority.

00:05:02.720 And it's all part of what God's doing, you know?

00:05:05.160 And I don't, you know, it remains to be seen what he's really up to, Alibeth.

00:05:08.560 One of the things I tweeted out right after that, I go, this is exactly the kind of thing

00:05:11.600 God would do before he's about to do something else.

00:05:14.940 You know what I mean?

00:05:15.620 You talk about it.

00:05:16.220 Yeah, what does that mean?

00:05:17.160 Well, what I mean by that is, okay, like if you read the book of Revelation, okay?

00:05:21.740 And I'm not saying, I mean, we've been in the last time since Paul wrote all of his

00:05:25.920 letters to all the churches, okay?

00:05:27.880 You know, date setters, you know, be really careful.

00:05:30.560 In fact, last night I had dinner with a bunch of my kids and they even said, yeah, this

00:05:33.220 guy from Rwanda is getting a lot of attention because he thinks the rapture is going to

00:05:36.060 happen in the last 48 hours.

00:05:37.500 I go, well, he'll get a lot of attention for the next 48 hours.

00:05:39.700 Yeah, right.

00:05:40.640 And then I hope people expose him for what he is.

00:05:43.400 You know, if he wants to say he missed or, so I, you know, somebody's going to be right

00:05:46.140 one day.

00:05:46.840 Yeah.

00:05:47.400 But back to the question, what I meant by that was in the book of Revelation, okay, when

00:05:53.320 you look at it closely, it talks about the fact, well, there's seals, trumpets, and bulls.

00:05:59.080 Mm-hmm.

00:06:00.140 The seven trumpets are in the seventh seal and the seven bulls are in the seventh trumpet,

00:06:04.240 if folks ever want to look at Revelation.

00:06:06.220 But what's interesting is that God always pauses.

00:06:09.280 He pauses after the sixth seal before he kind of gets, you know, going again with more

00:06:16.540 judgment.

00:06:17.200 Mm-hmm.

00:06:17.520 It's like a grace interlude.

00:06:19.220 Mm-hmm.

00:06:20.140 And then here come the trumpets.

00:06:21.460 And then before the seventh trumpet, there's a pause.

00:06:24.760 And it's like, God's like, what are you guys going to do with this?

00:06:28.140 And then interestingly enough, when you get to the seventh bull, or actually the seventh

00:06:32.500 trumpet, which is all seven bulls, and it's really Revelation 16 is where you're

00:06:36.200 going to get to the seven bulls, there is no pause.

00:06:38.440 He just rolls through it.

00:06:39.920 And what you see is the world responds just like Egypt responded during the plagues of

00:06:44.500 Moses, all right?

00:06:45.520 So, I mean, if people want to go look, six of the seven bulls, all right, line up with

00:06:53.060 some of the plagues that happened in Egypt, okay?

00:06:55.560 And what Pharaoh did, he just kept hardening his heart, hardening his heart.

00:06:58.420 And then God hardened his heart as an illustration of the necessity of the grace of God and the

00:07:03.960 hardheartedness of men.

00:07:05.280 But at certain points, you know, Proverbs 29 says, he who hardens his neck after much

00:07:09.680 reproof will suddenly be broken beyond remedy.

00:07:13.080 So what I said, okay, was, hey, listen, guys, pay attention, right?

00:07:18.020 You know, God is not slow as some count slowness, but he is patient towards you, not wishing

00:07:22.760 for any to perish, but I'll come to eternal life.

00:07:25.500 I don't know if the world's going to end, but man, your world's going to end one day.

00:07:28.300 Yeah.

00:07:28.680 Right?

00:07:28.940 And that's why I just tell people all the time, I mean, listen, God does offer forgiveness

00:07:32.640 to your repentance.

00:07:33.320 He doesn't promise tomorrow to your procrastination, right?

00:07:36.120 Today is the day of salvation.

00:07:38.160 And what a gift our country, I mean, to sit and listen to things that were like eternally

00:07:44.460 important, ultimately important, and then also for a lot of folks to see, hey, a lot

00:07:48.580 of people really have been doing something with this idea, right?

00:07:51.700 Too many people, Allie Beth, go to church, and frankly, they go to unbiblical churches. 0.95

00:08:00.580 I'll explain what I mean by that.

00:08:02.520 And they're not a part of the church.

00:08:04.400 There's a world of difference between attending a service and tending to the Lord's business.

00:08:10.100 And what was awesome, okay, is I think people realize, man, Charlie was tending to the Lord's

00:08:16.660 business.

00:08:17.120 I mean, that's what I, I mean, periodically I'll text you, and I'm just like, hey, I'm so proud

00:08:20.760 of you because I, because, you know, we'll talk about issues.

00:08:24.040 We don't have to drag, we don't have to quote scripture every time we speak, right?

00:08:27.780 You know, but you're not afraid of who you are.

00:08:30.840 And who you are is a person who understands the kindness of God and the goodness of his

00:08:36.400 word is somebody who's lovingly sharing that with others.

00:08:39.680 I'm not going to love you more if you agree with me, but here we go.

00:08:42.620 So you just do a great job at that.

00:08:44.220 And so did Charlie, and I'm thankful for you.

00:08:45.860 Well, thank you.

00:08:51.320 Okay, y'all, let me remind you, October 11th, Dallas, Texas, Share the Arrows is happening,

00:08:56.680 our Christian Women's Conference.

00:08:58.100 It is going to be amazing, y'all.

00:09:01.000 It's going to be amazing.

00:09:01.820 I cannot wait to worship with y'all.

00:09:03.580 I cannot wait to learn with y'all.

00:09:04.900 I cannot wait to speak to and encourage y'all.

00:09:06.880 We've got Alisa Childers.

00:09:08.020 We've got Ginger Duggar Volo. 0.99

00:09:09.540 We've got a Motherhood panel with Abby Halberstadt, Hillary Morgan Ferrer.

00:09:13.540 We've got a Biblical Health panel, which is going to be so important.

00:09:16.300 We've got Shauna Holman and Taylor Dukes on that.

00:09:19.180 And then we've got our girl, Katie Faust.

00:09:20.980 She's going to be bringing it.

00:09:22.060 It's going to be amazing.

00:09:23.680 Francesca Battistelli, Leading Worship.

00:09:25.520 Go to sharethearrows.com.

00:09:26.860 You can go ahead and use my code, Allie20, sharethearrows.com, Allie20, and you'll get 20% off.

00:09:34.740 Share the Arrows this year is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers.

00:09:36.940 That's sharethearrows.com, code Allie20.

00:09:39.440 Before we get back into that conversation, I want to tell you about my good friends at Carly Jean Los Angeles.

00:09:44.380 They're going to be there at Share the Arrows.

00:09:46.000 We love them so much.

00:09:47.100 They are so awesome, unapologetic about the faith, and they just make great clothing.

00:09:51.600 I love these jeans.

00:09:52.920 My jeans are from CJLA.

00:09:54.440 Almost all of my jeans are from CJLA because they're so comfortable.

00:09:57.960 They're stretchy, and they feel so comfortable in every stage of life, but they don't have a lot of give.

00:10:04.200 So even though they're stretchy at the end of the day, you're not going to be like,

00:10:06.800 Oh, my gosh, these look awful on me.

00:10:08.240 They look way too big now.

00:10:09.380 That's just like the sweet spot.

00:10:10.780 And all of their clothes, really, all of their clothes are so classic, so high quality.

00:10:14.920 All of their basics line is made in the U.S.

00:10:17.660 Carly and Chad and their family, they're just the real deal.

00:10:21.120 And I genuinely love the styles at CJLA.

00:10:24.180 If you go to CarlyJeanLosAngeles.com and use code AllieB, you'll get 20% off your order.

00:10:30.100 That's CarlyJeanLosAngeles.com, code AllieB.

00:10:32.860 Okay, can we get more into what you said about unbiblical churches?

00:10:41.720 A lot of people are trying to figure out, what is the test for my pastor?

00:10:46.940 Because they understand being a pastor, you know, more than anyone, is hard.

00:10:50.500 And they want to be gracious, and they want to be understanding with their pastor.

00:10:53.260 But sometimes they might get the nagging feeling that, I don't know if my pastor is meeting this moment.

00:10:59.140 I don't know if he's boldly proclaiming the word of God.

00:11:01.700 It kind of seems like he's scared.

00:11:03.340 So how should we think about our church leaders, and how do we decide, yes, I am in a church that is glorifying God?

00:11:10.220 Okay, so let me just start.

00:11:12.800 Because what's great is I don't have to make this up, right?

00:11:15.000 God's word, right?

00:11:16.580 So first of all, ask if you figure out what your pastor thinks the purpose of his church is.

00:11:20.900 They'll probably say something, you know, maybe from Matthew 20, I go and make disciples.

00:11:24.240 I'm like, great, well, what's a disciple?

00:11:26.000 Like, can you define a disciple?

00:11:26.960 And disciples are not people that attend his services, right?

00:11:30.080 One of the things I've said for a long time, Allie Beth, you know, was you've got to stop letting people rip you off.

00:11:37.860 I mean, and most pastors, I really mean this, most pastors, even the one with good doctrinal statements, they cut a deal with their people.

00:11:44.460 It's like, you come here, right?

00:11:46.260 You validate me with your presence.

00:11:47.940 You know, you give me enough money to keep the lights on.

00:11:51.100 And I won't ask too much of you.

00:11:53.780 And we'll both tell each other we're doing what God wants us to do.

00:11:55.940 It's like, don't get arrested for child pornography this week.

00:11:59.060 You know, don't do anything really embarrassing us, but just show up.

00:12:02.620 You know, be here, serve a little bit in children's ministry.

00:12:04.720 And I'm just like, listen, man, the Bible says, Jesus said that his church, right, that the gates of hell won't stand against it.

00:12:10.540 So if your church isn't forward moving, right?

00:12:15.120 We don't huddle up and try and protect ourself.

00:12:17.060 So if your church isn't forward moving towards bringing light to darkness and calling those who are in darkness out of darkness into his marvelous light.

00:12:25.020 And frankly, when I say your church, if you're not part of the family of God that's doing that, too many pastors are frankly just saying, hey, we'll do the ministry.

00:12:35.640 You just come support the ministry.

00:12:36.760 That's an unbiblical church, okay? 0.99

00:12:39.500 So Ephesians says this in chapter four, right, that God gives some as apostles, some as prophets, right, some as evangelists, some as pastors, some as teachers for the equipping of the saints for the work of service.

00:12:54.280 Yeah.

00:12:54.460 And I'm telling you, man, a lot of people will go to churches and just talk about, oh, he's an exegetical pastor, which is good, right?

00:13:01.140 He preaches really well and his doctrines sound.

00:13:03.960 I'm like, that's great, but does he move you to action, right?

00:13:08.440 Don't be doers of the word, not merely hearers who delude themselves.

00:13:12.900 If there's not some form of accountability, some expectation, some opportunity for you to use your gifts, again, not just in running the weekly meeting.

00:13:24.460 Churches don't run weekly meetings.

00:13:26.380 That verse that we always use, you know, don't forsake your seminogethers as the habit of some, there's nothing in there that talks about one day a week, right?

00:13:34.460 That same book, Hebrews, right?

00:13:36.400 I just quoted Hebrews 10, 24.

00:13:38.160 That same book says in Hebrews 3, encourage each other day after day as long as it's called today so we'll be hardened by deceitfulness of sin.

00:13:46.960 And deceitfulness of sin is that it makes a life that is not faithful look faithful or attractive, right?

00:13:56.620 So the worries of the world, the deceitfulness of riches, the concern for many things, this is what chokes out faithfulness.

00:14:02.380 So if you are a part of a church where your pastor is not expecting you to identify your gifts, this is 1 Peter 4, 10.

00:14:09.520 As each one of you has received a gift, be good stewards in employing it and serving one another as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.

00:14:17.340 So, you know, I'm quoting a ton of scripture here because I don't want you to hear Todd Wagner's opinion, right?

00:14:22.940 I really mean this a lot, Beth, and I'll share one illustration, okay?

00:14:26.120 About four years ago, five years ago, I was driving back, I was just outside of Canton, and I was merging onto the highway, and I look over and I see this hawk.

00:14:38.300 I mean, like an amazing hawk.

00:14:40.300 I'll show you a picture of it.

00:14:41.880 And I grew up loving My Side of the Mountain.

00:14:43.900 Did you ever read that book?

00:14:44.680 Mm-mm.

00:14:45.040 Okay.

00:14:45.860 Great book, My Side of the Mountain.

00:14:47.460 It's about a kid that ran away, and he found this pet falcon.

00:14:52.060 He actually went up and stole it from a nest, and then he raised this falcon to hunt with him, and, you know, it's part of the book, okay?

00:15:01.520 And I always thought, as a kid, man, it'd be amazing to have, like, a bird of prey as a pet.

00:15:05.780 Yeah.

00:15:06.240 Right?

00:15:06.660 Yeah.

00:15:07.440 So, anyway, I'm driving.

00:15:09.180 I see this hawk.

00:15:10.020 It's, like, sitting on the access road.

00:15:11.960 Like, you don't ever see a hawk sitting on the ground.

00:15:14.120 Yeah.

00:15:14.760 And I just, I mean, I was, like, 30, I stopped.

00:15:16.900 Like, was that a hawk?

00:15:17.640 And I backed up, and I had a towel, and, I mean, I'm going to show you a picture, because it was crazy.

00:15:24.620 And I threw this towel around it, and I picked it up, and I was, like, this is unbelievable, you know, because I've got a hawk, and I put it in my car, right?

00:15:34.740 And I had somebody else drive, and I'm, like, oh, I've got my hawk.

00:15:38.020 Yeah.

00:15:38.520 Right?

00:15:38.940 First of all, then I was, like, and I figured what happened is that thing had swung, you know, probably had swooped down to find something, probably hit the side of a semi.

00:15:46.920 I, it was stunned.

00:15:48.060 Yeah.

00:15:48.460 You know what I mean?

00:15:49.000 Yeah.

00:15:49.140 And I did find a little split under its wing.

00:15:51.400 Yeah.

00:15:51.700 But the little I know is breaking federal law, right, by possessing.

00:15:55.160 Whoops.

00:15:56.160 Yes, by possessing a bird of prey.

00:15:58.400 But my point is, is I thought to myself, look, this is, I was making it about me.

00:16:02.480 Yeah.

00:16:02.900 You know what I mean?

00:16:03.720 This thing is supposed to be, you know, I immediately thought how I can walk around like a pirate with a parrot, like a hawk.

00:16:09.320 Yeah.

00:16:10.040 You think having a puppy at a dog park will get you attention.

00:16:13.500 Yeah.

00:16:13.680 You know, having a hawk on your shoulder, right?

00:16:15.240 Yeah.

00:16:15.440 And, of course, that's not what I'm supposed to do.

00:16:17.300 And so, I mean, obviously, I called a game warden and said, hey, look, I got this hawk.

00:16:20.960 And, you know, where can I take this thing?

00:16:22.740 There's a wildlife refugee center right there up I-20.

00:16:25.200 And I pulled in.

00:16:27.200 I gave him the hawk.

00:16:29.100 You know, and our job was to nurse that hawk, right, make that hawk healthy and release it so it could do what it could do.

00:16:37.100 It's not like, you know, I wouldn't, my point is, a lot of pastors, you know, Allie Beth, like, they love when people like you go to their church.

00:16:45.040 Allie Beth goes here.

00:16:46.820 And this person goes here.

00:16:49.660 Or all these people go here.

00:16:51.340 It's like they're building an aviary.

00:16:53.540 You know what I mean?

00:16:54.280 As opposed to saying, no, some of you guys, you need to realize you're supposed to, you know, my job is to equip you and to help you be what God wants you to be.

00:17:06.840 I tell folks all the time, and this is the last thing I'll say about this, I've actually got about 15 things.

00:17:11.340 I'm actually preaching through this right now with a group of people who asked me to come.

00:17:14.440 And I titled it, Why to Leave a Church.

00:17:16.620 And I gave them 15 reasons why to leave a church.

00:17:18.540 So I'm teaching the positive by illustrating the negative.

00:17:21.020 Yeah.

00:17:21.300 Okay?

00:17:22.200 And, you know, and I just said, man, if your church is collecting you and isn't calling you to greatness and doesn't see their job as setting you up so that one day when you stand before the Lord, you're going to hear, well done, good and faithful servant, you're in an unbiblical church. 0.78

00:17:37.560 Yeah.

00:17:37.760 If your church isn't actively confronting the gates of hell and speaking out against hellish things, you're not in a biblical church because that's what Jesus says his church will do.

00:17:46.980 Yeah.

00:17:47.260 It's not running nice meetings with good worship and even good teaching.

00:17:51.500 Yeah.

00:17:52.280 It's not just that.

00:17:53.540 Not just that.

00:17:54.540 It's got to have that.

00:17:55.980 But that teaching with effect, right, is supposed to produce something.

00:17:59.860 So I'm really passionate about that.

00:18:02.680 You know, that was one of the things that marked, you know, I think my leadership at the church I founded was, you know, people were getting after it.

00:18:12.480 You know?

00:18:13.020 And that's what I wanted.

00:18:13.940 I'm like, man, I'm here to serve you.

00:18:15.540 Yeah.

00:18:15.720 Most churches are like circuses.

00:18:17.400 Yeah.

00:18:17.640 Where we put the best performers on stage and you pay to support them.

00:18:22.060 And I'm like, no, man, I used to use the phrase, we're a clown school, right? 0.78

00:18:25.220 Like, we're going to teach you to clown. 0.95

00:18:26.740 Some of you will be mimes. 0.95

00:18:27.480 Some of you will juggle.

00:18:28.160 Some of you will do magic.

00:18:29.120 But you're going to figure out what it is to bring joy to the world.

00:18:31.620 And then you've got to go do it.

00:18:33.140 Yeah.

00:18:33.260 And frankly, if you're not, then I use this phrase, Allie Beth.

00:18:40.400 I said, if you're here and you're not practicing the one another's scripture, if you're not abiding with Christ, if you're not, you know, connected to other believers in a small, intimate environment, you're not discovering, developing, and deploying your gifts, then you're not a regular attender.

00:18:53.160 You're an irregular believer. 0.75

00:18:55.580 And so I'm not saying you're going to hell.

00:18:58.040 I'm just saying you're not pursuing heaven with us.

00:19:00.500 Yeah.

00:19:01.000 Right?

00:19:01.420 That's really good.

00:19:01.860 And so you're the outlier.

00:19:07.700 Next sponsor is Good Ranchers.

00:19:09.740 Good Ranchers will also be at Chair of the Arrows.

00:19:12.260 Cordley is going to join me on stage again.

00:19:14.340 And their testimony is just so special.

00:19:16.480 And I love them so much.

00:19:17.720 But I genuinely love all of their products, too.

00:19:20.400 We have been eating Good Ranchers almost exclusively in our home for the past four and a half years.

00:19:25.380 It's made such a difference in our family.

00:19:27.060 It's truly been a blessing.

00:19:28.360 We love their Better Than Organic chicken.

00:19:31.280 We bake multiple batches of chicken every week because our kids love it, too.

00:19:35.480 We love their seed oil-free chicken nuggets.

00:19:37.800 Their ground beef is awesome.

00:19:39.240 So versatile.

00:19:40.020 But they've got bacon. 0.69

00:19:40.860 They've got seafood.

00:19:42.100 They've got all kinds of meat and all from American farms and ranches.

00:19:45.940 You just subscribe.

00:19:47.280 Get that box of meat to your front door on dry ice every month.

00:19:50.300 It will save you so much time and money because also, like, you go in the grocery store, the prices change every day.

00:19:56.860 And with Good Ranchers, like, they're just so reasonable about that that you don't have to worry about not knowing what things are going to cost.

00:20:05.560 And so it can save so much in your life if you go to GoodRanchers.com and use code Allie at checkout.

00:20:11.460 You'll get a $40 discount when you do that.

00:20:14.780 GoodRanchers.com, code Allie.

00:20:20.300 Full devotion is what's normal.

00:20:24.080 What Charlie did, I mean, listen, I think he was uniquely gifted.

00:20:27.260 I think he worked hard.

00:20:29.080 Were you there on Sunday?

00:20:30.780 I was, yes.

00:20:32.780 I didn't get to catch a lot of it, but you know who I did here was Larry Arnn.

00:20:38.260 Yeah.

00:20:39.160 Interesting speech, right?

00:20:40.540 I love what he said.

00:20:41.460 Do you remember what Larry said?

00:20:42.820 When Larry said, when Charlie came to him and said, what do I got to do?

00:20:45.500 Do you remember what Larry said?

00:20:46.860 You heard a lot.

00:20:47.440 You were there for five hours.

00:20:48.280 He, well, he basically told him that you need to go read.

00:20:51.420 You need to read the classics.

00:20:52.400 You need to read the Bible.

00:20:53.180 You need to read the founding documents.

00:20:54.840 And Charlie would send him all of these certificates of completion of all of the courses he was

00:20:59.640 taking online at Lillstale.

00:21:01.240 Yeah.

00:21:01.400 Right.

00:21:01.640 But what he said, I love what Larry said.

00:21:03.340 He goes, you're going to have to suffer.

00:21:04.980 Oh, you're right.

00:21:06.020 That was the word.

00:21:07.540 He goes, you have to suffer.

00:21:09.520 And, and, and, and, you know, Charlie looked at him and said, what are you talking about?

00:21:12.820 And he said like, look, you're going to have to say no to a lot of things so you can equip

00:21:16.060 yourself because you don't know what you need to know.

00:21:18.700 So you could do what God wants you to do.

00:21:21.460 Yes.

00:21:21.980 And then he said, next thing I knew, I got an email with a completed certificate of the

00:21:26.480 first class.

00:21:27.340 Yeah.

00:21:27.780 And then he is one of what he say, six or seven people that's ever done all 31 of them.

00:21:32.460 Yeah.

00:21:32.780 And I'm, listen, I talked to my kids about that.

00:21:34.680 Literally, I just said, look, man, he's not just, I think if people listen to Charlie debate

00:21:38.760 or they listen to you here, Allie Beth, and they're like, oh, well, she's so gifted.

00:21:43.120 And, and listen, you are okay.

00:21:45.280 I mean, you know, but you work at it, right?

00:21:49.200 Fair.

00:21:49.860 I mean, you discipline yourself for the purpose of godliness.

00:21:52.940 You study God's word.

00:21:54.180 You surround yourself with people who spur you on and.

00:21:57.040 And, you know, you work at it.

00:21:59.640 And so it's not like, you know, you just were, you know, I was telling my kids this,

00:22:05.860 this is why I was just saying that, look, man, you have a better chance of being Charlie

00:22:11.680 Kirk than you do LeBron James.

00:22:13.300 You guys weren't born with 40 inch verticals, right?

00:22:15.960 You know, and LeBron's done a good job taking care of his body and maybe increasing his vert

00:22:20.440 a little bit, but he was uniquely physically gifted.

00:22:23.220 And I think, listen, you know, all of us are given different amounts of grace and not

00:22:27.840 every believer needs to be Charlie Kirk, but every believer needs to be great at what they

00:22:32.360 do the way Allie Beth and Charlie is.

00:22:36.260 That's the point.

00:22:37.260 And if you're in a church that is just with, okay, you attending and supporting what they're

00:22:41.220 doing, you're in a non-biblical church, no matter how good the doctrine is.

00:22:44.460 You know, when you were talking about how one of the things that you wanted to do when

00:22:48.420 you led Watermark was spur people towards action, you know, I started going to Shoreline,

00:22:53.200 which was the youth group at Watermark, probably sophomore, junior, senior year of high school.

00:22:59.160 And that was really one of the first times that I, even though I definitely was a Christian

00:23:04.760 at that point, but I was also in this time of really taking my faith more seriously for

00:23:09.080 a variety of reasons.

00:23:10.680 But going to Camp Barnabas, which is this camp in Missouri for kids and adults with special

00:23:15.720 needs, for those of you out there who don't know that, that was such a life-changing moment

00:23:21.620 for me and truly one of the first times that I was like, okay, this is what it tangibly

00:23:27.940 day-to-day looks like to deny myself, take up my cross and follow Christ.

00:23:33.780 Not that it wasn't all so fun and enjoyable because it's a great time, but it was such

00:23:38.800 a lesson in service for me.

00:23:40.820 It wasn't just, mission trips are great.

00:23:42.580 I'm not saying that.

00:23:43.520 But, you know, sometimes you can go on a mission trip with your friends and you do a little

00:23:47.140 work and you do a little vacation, but this was like day and night, truly trying to be

00:23:53.460 the hands and feet of Jesus in a not glamorous way.

00:23:56.400 So I think we usually went during wheelchair week, right?

00:23:58.940 So your kids could do anything.

00:24:00.700 No, it was intense.

00:24:01.760 We were talking like everything, you know?

00:24:03.860 Like hygiene, showers, bathroom. 0.99

00:24:06.500 I mean, it was the whole.

00:24:07.780 Yes.

00:24:08.560 And I just want to like thank you for your leadership in that time because you're right

00:24:12.900 because I saw exactly what you're talking about, that it was faith to action.

00:24:17.860 It was faith.

00:24:18.900 Yes.

00:24:19.560 Without faith, it's impossible to please God.

00:24:21.740 We read that in the book of Hebrews.

00:24:23.580 However, when we read those hall of fame, faith heroes in Hebrews 11, by faith, they what?

00:24:29.940 They didn't sit there.

00:24:30.800 They did something.

00:24:31.920 All of them.

00:24:32.400 Yes.

00:24:32.900 And I think that's really important for Christians to remember, especially in this moment.

00:24:36.700 Belief is so important.

00:24:37.780 Faith is so important.

00:24:39.120 But I'm not going to believe that you have faith in that chair if you refuse to sit in it.

00:24:42.340 Amen.

00:24:43.720 That's it.

00:24:44.160 So you look at all of Paul's books, like even let's just use Ephesians.

00:24:46.740 It's the easiest one right now since we're already in it.

00:24:48.460 Yeah.

00:24:49.460 Paul has this outline for all of his books.

00:24:51.320 The first half is like the word of God and then the work of people who believe the word

00:24:55.620 of God or what you believe and then how you behave.

00:24:59.180 Yes.

00:24:59.580 Right?

00:24:59.700 What the doctrine is, what you do.

00:25:02.540 So you get through the first three chapters and it's almost a 50-50 deal except for Romans.

00:25:06.360 Romans, it's 11 chapters of what you believe.

00:25:08.500 Yeah.

00:25:08.800 And then it's, I urge you therefore, by the mercy of God.

00:25:12.040 That's so true.

00:25:12.500 To present your body, right?

00:25:14.760 Yeah.

00:25:14.880 As a living and holy sacrilege.

00:25:16.320 Get after it.

00:25:17.080 Yeah.

00:25:17.260 So Romans has 11 chapters of that and then four of application.

00:25:20.240 But Ephesians 1 through 3, this is what we believe.

00:25:22.420 And then chapter 4, he says, therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, urge you to walk worthy

00:25:27.760 of the calling of which you've been called.

00:25:29.200 So good.

00:25:29.920 And so you're exactly right, Allie Beth.

00:25:32.440 It's you gotta, you gotta get after it.

00:25:34.280 And one of the things even we did, we wouldn't even let, like when we would send our people 0.98

00:25:38.140 overseas, we would never use the term mission trip because why?

00:25:41.280 It reinforces that what we do at Camp Barnabas or what we do in Africa or what we do in Mexico

00:25:47.860 is a mission.

00:25:49.240 What we do here is we just live and wait for the next mission, right?

00:25:52.240 And so the phrase I use all the time is, hey, life is a long-term mission trip and every

00:25:56.360 week is a short-term mission opportunity or short, you know?

00:25:59.820 And so we would call those, when you would go to places like that, we'd call them discipleship

00:26:02.960 opportunities, discipleship trips, where you would just go and do what disciples do.

00:26:06.380 But I wanted people to think, you're on mission every day because the church is a mission.

00:26:12.460 And so as Watermark grew over the years, people would ask me, well, what's the mission

00:26:16.000 budget?

00:26:16.600 I would say, well, this year it's 35 million.

00:26:19.520 And we'd go, well, my gosh, what's the church budget?

00:26:21.580 I'd go, oh, I thought you just asked me that question, right?

00:26:25.060 Because the church, this is the thing, people, you got to understand, the church is a mission.

00:26:29.360 You are a missionary, all of us, right?

00:26:32.620 And so, Allie Beth, you are doing the work of an evangelist.

00:26:35.800 That's what you do every day here, right?

00:26:38.200 And it's not just sharing, you know, God is good, man is bad, Jesus died, you know, repent

00:26:45.820 and trust in him.

00:26:47.600 But we should share that a lot.

00:26:49.040 But the gospel is legs.

00:26:50.380 And what you're trying to make the case for is, listen, God's good.

00:26:53.200 He's not trying to rip you off, right?

00:26:55.120 He's trying to set you free.

00:26:57.120 It's the one, it's the God of this world that's blinded the eyes of the non-believing, right? 0.99

00:27:02.200 And Jesus has come that you might have life.

00:27:04.500 And you're making a case for that.

00:27:06.140 And so you talk about that.

00:27:07.160 I've loved the way you've just honored womanhood and honored motherhood, right?

00:27:13.640 And just faithfulness.

00:27:15.000 I mean, you do that on your show so well.

00:27:17.640 Well, that's really kind of you to say.

00:27:19.380 It means a lot coming from you.

00:27:20.960 So yeah, because you know, I wouldn't say it if it wasn't true.

00:27:23.080 It's true.

00:27:23.880 It's true.

00:27:24.660 That is true.

00:27:30.060 Next sponsor is Shopify.

00:27:32.000 Y'all, Shopify makes your life so much easier.

00:27:34.920 If you are an entrepreneur, if you've got any kind of e-commerce business, you're selling

00:27:38.840 merchandise, you're selling art, whatever it is, you need to make sure that you've got a

00:27:42.720 shop set up.

00:27:43.420 And if you're a business owner, especially if you're like a mom and a business owner,

00:27:47.200 you don't have time to start from scratch.

00:27:49.520 Are you going to learn to code?

00:27:50.640 Of course not.

00:27:51.500 You need a service that is going to help you make it as easy and as simple and as effective

00:27:57.040 as possible.

00:27:57.580 So you can just focus on creating your product and making money.

00:28:01.640 That is why Shopify exists.

00:28:02.940 We use Shopify to sell our merchandise and they just make it so easy.

00:28:07.440 They even help with things like product description.

00:28:09.700 So you don't have to spend hours doing that.

00:28:12.760 It is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses and 10% of all e-commerce in

00:28:19.020 the United States.

00:28:19.900 People use them because it's really easy to use and it works.

00:28:24.160 So turn your big business idea into with Shopify on your side.

00:28:28.620 Sign up for your $1 per month and start selling today at shopify.com slash Allie.

00:28:33.820 That's shopify.com slash Allie.

00:28:36.180 I think that you're the perfect person to answer this question that I've gotten so much.

00:28:45.840 We're talking about healthy churches and what churches should be and how pastors should lead.

00:28:49.740 And I get a lot of questions.

00:28:51.140 What should I say to my pastor?

00:28:52.740 Which is really hard to speak into for everyone's individual situation.

00:28:57.220 But if someone does have a concern about how their church is being led, you from a pastoral

00:29:02.100 perspective, what's the most effective way for a congregant to bring their concern to

00:29:07.420 a pastor?

00:29:08.060 That's a great question.

00:29:09.500 Okay.

00:29:09.900 So the Bible says, let me just again, I'll try and just help people because you don't

00:29:14.900 have to hear from Todd Wagner, but I think all of it says, clothe yourself with humility.

00:29:18.580 Right.

00:29:19.920 And, and so, and you know, each of us, it says, you younger men, be subject to your elders

00:29:24.500 and all of you clothe yourself with humility for God's opposed to the proud and gives grace

00:29:28.940 to the humble.

00:29:29.560 So first of all, you ought to know like something ought to stir you.

00:29:32.700 One of the things that I tell people all the time is like, like baptism is the very first

00:29:36.780 thing you should do if you're a believer, but I could convince you to get baptized.

00:29:40.600 What I really like is when people read their Bible and go, why am I not baptized?

00:29:44.080 Like that seems to be really important.

00:29:45.680 I'm like, exactly.

00:29:46.580 Yeah.

00:29:46.900 You know what I mean?

00:29:47.440 And, and so that to me is usually when people, I go, you know, I think you get it, you know,

00:29:52.320 because you're reading the word of God and you do what it says.

00:29:55.000 So you ought to know.

00:29:57.320 Okay.

00:29:57.700 And this is why I'm just telling you the church in America, Allie Beth, and I really do.

00:30:04.380 We have a problem with our pastors because it's, it's just good business to not ask too

00:30:08.520 much of people.

00:30:10.160 Okay.

00:30:10.640 Even the church I led since I've left, they've changed some purpose statements and, and,

00:30:14.120 and, and changed some of what we were doing and, you know, different leadership can do

00:30:18.160 it at once.

00:30:18.500 But what I would just say is, is that you ought to know what God's calling you to be.

00:30:23.840 And then you should go with humility to your pastor and just say, Hey, how can I help?

00:30:27.500 Like, here's, here's some things I feel like I need to do and I, and that we should be doing

00:30:32.840 and, or tell me your view on how we're equipping the saints for the work of service.

00:30:36.880 Like not just supporting children's ministry, parking or greeting.

00:30:40.760 We need to do that for our weekly meeting, but the church is not a weekly meeting.

00:30:45.000 Right.

00:30:45.280 I, I, I would, I would say almost every week, man, that we're here for two reasons.

00:30:48.800 In fact, it was interesting.

00:30:50.440 Like when, when we built the building, finally, you know, the people that built it put worship

00:30:54.380 center in our largest room.

00:30:56.100 Right.

00:30:56.500 And I literally popped off the, those words.

00:30:59.220 And I said, I had the little, the, the WRSHIP up there in my hands.

00:31:03.680 I said, guys, this has came off this room because this is not the worship center.

00:31:07.260 I go like, this is the worship center.

00:31:09.380 Right.

00:31:09.780 You're, it's why I would end services with like, man, have a great week of worship.

00:31:13.060 Yeah.

00:31:13.620 Right.

00:31:13.900 I was about to say that.

00:31:14.820 You know?

00:31:15.160 Yeah.

00:31:15.700 So I was like, let's go.

00:31:17.840 We got in here to do two things to, to remind, to remember the grace of God, how great our God

00:31:24.240 is.

00:31:24.800 Cause that world's loud.

00:31:26.080 It constantly is getting us to believe that, you know, we should manage our spirituality, but

00:31:32.900 really kind of give ourself to personal peace and affluence to use Frank's, Frank Schaeffer's

00:31:37.160 ideas of what mutes the church.

00:31:39.900 And I'm like, no, we got to remind ourself that this is truth.

00:31:42.740 And what's real is the world that's coming and that we are aliens and strangers and that

00:31:46.860 God is good and he's not trying to rip us off.

00:31:48.980 Right.

00:31:49.660 And then so to remember God and then to remind ourself what we do, that we, each of us is

00:31:55.700 going to have to give an account for our life.

00:31:57.900 One of the things that was so amazing about what Charlie was doing, right.

00:32:00.820 I mean, I, I, I love what Frank Turek said.

00:32:03.860 Yeah.

00:32:04.480 So good.

00:32:05.040 Right.

00:32:05.280 Yeah.

00:32:05.500 Tell, tell everybody what Frank said, just so people can hear from another voice in mind

00:32:08.320 today.

00:32:09.200 Well, you know, he said, he said so much that was good, but where he got the most animated

00:32:13.180 and I just in the room, you could just feel it.

00:32:15.660 He said, and I'm paraphrasing here.

00:32:17.680 He said it a lot more clearly than I am, but he said, you know, Charlie is not in heaven

00:32:22.480 because he was a good father and husband.

00:32:25.960 He was not in heaven because he shared the gospel with all of these people.

00:32:29.160 He's not in heaven because he sacrificed himself for his savior.

00:32:32.760 Charlie Kirk is in heaven because his savior sacrificed himself for Charlie.

00:32:37.120 Amen.

00:32:37.440 That's it.

00:32:38.240 That's it.

00:32:38.960 And so Charlie, you know, Charlie wasn't there.

00:32:40.760 Now watch.

00:32:41.220 What's great is that he was saved by grace through faith.

00:32:43.860 Yes.

00:32:44.340 And not of ourselves as a gift from God, not as a result of works so that no man should

00:32:48.000 boast.

00:32:48.280 But then verse 10, but Charlie was God's workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works, which

00:32:55.620 God prepared beforehand that he should walk in them.

00:32:58.000 And what I did, you know, in fact, my wife and I had a little bit of a, um, I was talking

00:33:03.320 to one of my, my kids and they were shook like everybody was.

00:33:08.120 And I think part of what reason we were shook is you without wanting to see anything, we just

00:33:11.780 got on.

00:33:12.140 We saw Charlie Turk was trending.

00:33:13.640 We turned it on and we saw horrible things and things that we're not supposed to see.

00:33:18.480 Exactly.

00:33:19.060 Right.

00:33:19.660 But my kids just go and they said, I'm just so sad.

00:33:23.280 And I said to him, I go, I'm not sad.

00:33:26.220 I go about, you know, I'm like, I'm motivated.

00:33:28.780 You know what I mean?

00:33:29.460 And my wife goes, you can't say that.

00:33:31.340 And I go, well, babe, I wasn't saying I wasn't sad.

00:33:33.440 I mean, I am sad.

00:33:34.100 It's horrible.

00:33:34.940 But what I was doing is making a statement of comparison.

00:33:37.400 I go, what I mean is what really makes me sad is how many people think that what God wants

00:33:41.920 them to do is watch Charlie Kirk clips on YouTube.

00:33:45.100 All right.

00:33:45.540 Or go to church and not do what Charlie did.

00:33:47.700 What makes me sad is how many people think that now that Charlie's gone, what are we

00:33:51.200 going to do?

00:33:52.560 You know?

00:33:52.860 And I, so, I mean, obviously I was sad, but what really makes me sad, Allie Beth, is Christians 1.00

00:33:59.380 and aviaries.

00:34:01.260 What really makes me sad is that people think that what you're doing to make a difference

00:34:06.240 is what there's, I mean, cheer for you, pray for you, encourage you, but then figure

00:34:11.400 out what's their part.

00:34:12.720 Yeah.

00:34:13.080 Okay.

00:34:13.640 And do their thing because it's, because Charlie Kirk had no idea that he was going

00:34:19.940 to live, that God had appointed, right?

00:34:22.940 The scripture says in Psalm 139, God has fixed our days.

00:34:26.600 Who knew Charlie Kirk's days were 31 and some?

00:34:28.960 Right.

00:34:29.800 But each of us has some days.

00:34:31.620 And that's why I would always tell myself, I'm going to have to give an account for these

00:34:35.860 souls, Hebrews 13 says as a pastor.

00:34:37.540 And if somebody is not, you know, and I mean, frankly, just as friends, okay, you know,

00:34:43.880 Allie Beth, you know, you and I, when I get to heaven, right, and I'm standing before the

00:34:49.600 Lord and he says, Todd, you're like, you know, if he says to me, well done, good and faithful

00:34:54.340 servant, it's like, I'm going to, I want to probably look over my shoulder and see my

00:34:57.680 community, see Allie Beth and Tim and go, hey, thank you.

00:35:00.300 Because there's no way he would have said that if it wasn't for your friendship, if it wasn't

00:35:04.900 for your example, so thank you, that if, if members of your body, right, and they're

00:35:10.140 not, he's not going to say, well done, good and educated theologian, you knew you were

00:35:13.880 a sinner and that Christ was the provision for all men.

00:35:17.140 Okay.

00:35:17.680 You're not going to be there unless that's true.

00:35:19.800 Yeah.

00:35:20.440 But what you're going to get judged for, right?

00:35:23.260 Salvation is always by grace, but judgment, and we don't talk about this enough.

00:35:27.540 Christians are going to be judged, right? 1.00

00:35:30.260 So if you have no salvation, then you're only going to be judging your works and that's

00:35:34.900 not going to work out well for you.

00:35:36.320 Right.

00:35:36.980 Okay.

00:35:37.320 But first Corinthians three says that no man can lay a foundation except that laid by Christ

00:35:42.560 and the apostles.

00:35:43.740 Okay.

00:35:44.280 And then it says that we're going to then present to the Lord what we've done and what

00:35:48.600 is of wood, hay and stubble, right?

00:35:51.260 And imperishable things or perishable things is going to get consumed and you'll be saved as

00:35:55.720 one who passes through fire.

00:35:56.660 But what we do with our faith is what's going to remain.

00:36:02.380 And that's where we, I think that's what, I think that's what he's going to say.

00:36:05.080 Well done.

00:36:06.060 You know, when I stand before the Lord, he's not going to punish me for my sins.

00:36:08.980 Christ covered that, but he's going to reward me for what my faith, his, his grace working

00:36:13.720 out in me as I believed in him and abided with him, what I produced for him.

00:36:18.180 And I really believe that that's, if you, if your church, your community, that's what I

00:36:22.460 mean by that.

00:36:22.860 Your faithful brothers and sisters in Christ aren't helping you have more to stand before

00:36:30.760 Christ with that he'll get the glory for to lay at his feet that he will celebrate, then

00:36:36.840 you're not in a biblical church.

00:36:38.580 Yeah.

00:36:38.920 That's a really good distinction.

00:36:40.040 You're right.

00:36:40.620 We really don't talk about the judgment that Christians are going to endure.

00:36:44.280 And it's so important to distinguish.

00:36:45.660 Yes.

00:36:46.400 By grace through faith, you have been saved.

00:36:48.300 You quoted Ephesians two earlier.

00:36:49.700 Paul says over and over again, not your own doing, not a result of works.

00:36:53.260 It's a gift so that no one can boast.

00:36:54.980 Like he really wants you to know that, but you're not talking about salvation.

00:36:59.200 You're not talking about your works getting you to heaven, but before God, even though

00:37:03.660 you are justified, even though Jesus is standing before you as your advocate saying their slate

00:37:07.340 is wiped clean, we are still rewarded.

00:37:10.040 You are saying, or scripture says, based on the good that you have done with that saving

00:37:14.960 faith that you have.

00:37:15.980 Amen.

00:37:16.740 Judged and rewarded.

00:37:17.760 By the way, you want a horrifying verse?

00:37:21.280 It's in Matthew seven where people are going to stand there having done stuff, cast out

00:37:27.800 demons, heal people, share, advance the kingdom.

00:37:31.820 And he's going to say to some people, depart from me.

00:37:34.520 I never knew you because you can do things that God uses, not in faith.

00:37:39.600 Right?

00:37:40.160 Yeah.

00:37:40.780 That verse used to really trouble me, Allie Beth.

00:37:43.020 I would, I would be like, oh my gosh, how can I even know I'm saved?

00:37:46.120 And the answer is, you know, you're saved because of whom in whom you trust, not what

00:37:50.560 you do.

00:37:51.060 And then you do what you do because of whom you trust.

00:37:54.340 Here's where it became clear to me.

00:37:55.620 I was reading in John.

00:37:57.320 This is years after I was a believer.

00:37:59.020 I was actually teaching through John and I got to where it's the night of his betrayal.

00:38:05.820 Okay.

00:38:06.220 And he says, hey, listen, you know, one of you is going to betray me and they have no

00:38:11.760 clue who it is.

00:38:13.540 Now, why is that?

00:38:14.940 It's because when Jesus sent them out to cast out demons and to heal sicknesses and to preach

00:38:21.400 the gospel, when they came back, Matthew says that everybody reported what they had done

00:38:27.460 and rejoiced in what they had done, including Judas. 0.84

00:38:33.540 Okay.

00:38:34.420 God used Judas.

00:38:36.880 And, and so, you know, and he was a son of perdition from the beginning.

00:38:40.840 Right.

00:38:41.520 Right.

00:38:41.980 And so they, they didn't go, well, it's got to be Judas.

00:38:44.200 Cause every time we came back, he had nothing to report.

00:38:46.740 Judas did what Matthew seven said, but he never, cause God uses, listen, God uses imperfect

00:38:51.480 men.

00:38:51.720 And thank him because that means he can use me to do amazing things.

00:38:55.440 That's why at the end of the day, you know, God says, don't you sit there and try and sort

00:38:59.920 out who's saved and who's not.

00:39:01.240 Yeah.

00:39:01.540 Right.

00:39:01.720 I'll take care of that.

00:39:02.600 But my point is, is I think there's probably, this is a safe statement.

00:39:07.260 I think there's fewer people doing great works for God that aren't saved.

00:39:11.820 Then there are people who think they're saved because of what they believe who do nothing

00:39:16.760 more than attend churches.

00:39:19.540 I think, I think I'd sleep on that.

00:39:21.240 And I, and I wouldn't sleep on that if I'm a, if I'm sitting there and I'm like, what

00:39:25.000 am I doing?

00:39:25.660 I'm like, what are your, what are you doing?

00:39:28.480 Yeah.

00:39:29.000 That is a right response.

00:39:31.000 That's again, think about what it says in Romans.

00:39:33.060 I urge you therefore, brethren, by the mercy of God, present your lives as living and holy

00:39:39.140 sacrifices acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.

00:39:44.120 Next sponsor for the day is pre-born.

00:39:51.920 Y'all pre-born is so important.

00:39:54.120 They are an organization that provides pregnancy centers with the equipment that they need to

00:39:59.260 serve moms and to save their babies. 0.95

00:40:00.960 Like ultrasound equipment, the cost of an ultrasound that a woman can see her baby and hear the 0.96

00:40:09.080 beating heart, um, is $28.

00:40:12.900 $28 is the cost to make sure that you've got the ultrasound tech, that you've got the time

00:40:18.700 and the space and all of that that is needed to help save that baby's life.

00:40:23.300 And so if you can just donate $28 to pre-born, you are covering the cost of a life-saving

00:40:27.380 ultrasound, but maybe $28 isn't right for you. 0.88

00:40:30.200 Maybe it's $2 and 80 cents.

00:40:31.800 Maybe it's $28,000.

00:40:33.440 Whatever you can donate to pre-born will help save a life.

00:40:38.060 You are putting your money where your heart is.

00:40:40.380 You are getting yourself into the fight for life in a way that God is calling you to when

00:40:46.320 you partner with pre-born.

00:40:47.260 So go to pre-born.com slash relatable.

00:40:50.560 That's pre-born.com slash relatable.

00:40:58.040 It's what you do with your life that is worship.

00:41:00.120 It's not where you attend a church most Sundays.

00:41:02.780 Yeah.

00:41:03.680 And if you're in a church where they're not helping you with that, you know, and one of

00:41:08.100 the things I'm doing right now, I bet, is I'm gathering pastors to help equip them, encourage

00:41:11.420 them, remind them of these things.

00:41:12.700 I mean, meaningful membership.

00:41:14.120 If you're in a church that doesn't have meaningful membership, right, where you're held into account

00:41:20.820 in a loving way, right?

00:41:23.040 The reason accountability is so important is because that means you count.

00:41:26.360 You matter.

00:41:27.020 Yeah.

00:41:27.260 Like your staff here, if one of them doesn't show up to work, you notice it, right?

00:41:33.900 This incredible team that makes this look beautiful and everything work and edits and

00:41:38.280 posts.

00:41:39.540 If they're not here, you're like, hey, this matters because you're part of the team.

00:41:43.500 Yeah.

00:41:43.860 If your church doesn't treat you the way you treat your people in the podcast, it's not

00:41:48.100 a biblical church.

00:41:48.820 Yeah. 0.91

00:41:49.040 If you cut off your hands, you would notice it.

00:41:51.440 And if we're supposed to be different members of the body of Christ, well, you should notice

00:41:56.420 if the finger is not there, if the eye is not there, it would make a meaningful difference.

00:42:00.780 Yeah.

00:42:01.000 That's a really good point.

00:42:01.100 That was one of my favorite parts also.

00:42:03.060 I also caught the gentleman, I think you were on with him yesterday, right?

00:42:07.220 The producer of his-

00:42:08.280 Andrew Colvett.

00:42:09.260 Andrew.

00:42:10.020 Remember what Andrew did when he got on stage?

00:42:11.860 Did Andrew walk on stage by himself?

00:42:13.480 Nope.

00:42:14.240 What'd he do?

00:42:14.820 He had his full team of Charlie's podcasts.

00:42:16.020 He had, I don't know, 15 or 20 people, but he goes, you don't know these faces, but Charlie

00:42:20.480 couldn't have done what he's done without these people.

00:42:22.520 Yeah.

00:42:22.980 So you don't have to preach on Sunday.

00:42:25.560 You may not have the gifts that I've got.

00:42:27.360 Most of us don't have the gifts that you have, okay?

00:42:30.120 But there are gifts in this room that are every bit as valuable, that are going to be

00:42:33.080 every bit as rewarded.

00:42:34.540 Yes.

00:42:35.160 Okay?

00:42:35.700 And one of the things I love to tell people, since we're talking about works, it's like there's

00:42:39.980 two parables that Jesus tells.

00:42:42.700 One of the talents and one of the meanest in the scripture, and what's interesting is

00:42:47.540 if you look at both of those, when people are given, some are given 10, some are given

00:42:52.180 five, and some are given one, okay?

00:42:54.680 What's interesting about that is if you use your 10 talents, guess what you get?

00:42:59.160 The same reward as a person who used their five talents.

00:43:02.020 The same reward as if a person had used their one talent well.

00:43:05.360 You're not judged because you weren't given 10 talents.

00:43:07.360 Yeah.

00:43:07.520 The reward for people who are given different gifts is the same if they're faithful with

00:43:13.120 what they're given.

00:43:14.060 But Charlie was given, I think, a beautiful mind, right?

00:43:16.520 So he went through 31 Hillsdale courses, but clearly he had good recall, right?

00:43:22.120 We were laughing earlier about a mutual friend that doesn't have some of the gifts that you've

00:43:25.480 got, right?

00:43:26.520 But that is beautiful, right?

00:43:29.040 And that her gifts are completely different than yours.

00:43:32.160 And she shouldn't have to feel bad that she doesn't have your speaking and writing gifts,

00:43:36.440 right?

00:43:37.640 And yet she uses them to her glory. 0.99

00:43:39.780 And so I think, you know, she's going to get the same reward if she's faithful as you

00:43:44.580 are.

00:43:45.180 So in the other one where people are given five, five, and five, the reward is different.

00:43:51.660 Okay?

00:43:52.280 So there are certain things we all have been given, like today, okay?

00:43:56.500 So I've been given 62 years so far, so twice as many as Charlie.

00:44:00.560 So our time on earth is not the same.

00:44:03.100 But when Charlie and I lived two weeks ago on Wednesday, our day was the same, right?

00:44:09.220 The scriptures, we have the same scripture.

00:44:11.500 We have the same Holy Spirit.

00:44:13.620 So what are you doing with that?

00:44:15.620 Yeah.

00:44:16.340 Okay?

00:44:16.760 And it should look different.

00:44:18.100 Some of you are, you know, trumpets, which everybody hears a trumpet when it's played.

00:44:22.980 And some people are harps. 0.79

00:44:24.280 But just use it the way God wants you and be in a church that helps you use it.

00:44:31.700 And by that, not just to support the weekly meeting, but the mission that the gates of

00:44:38.240 hell won't stand against.

00:44:39.340 That to me was the thing that makes me sad, right?

00:44:42.420 I am sad.

00:44:43.260 I genuinely am sad about what happened with obviously a good young man and those kids and

00:44:48.260 that wife and the people that loved him.

00:44:51.120 But I am sadder for God's people that are being ripped off by pastors who want to build

00:45:00.400 aviaries.

00:45:02.720 And explain, unpack that analogy, the aviary.

00:45:05.720 Okay.

00:45:06.020 An aviary is a place like that it's a big cage that a bunch of birds live in, right?

00:45:12.540 And where they just want a bunch of hawks. 0.99

00:45:13.980 And look how cool my zoo is because I've got hawks, I've got, you know, whatever the

00:45:18.000 fruit loop bird is and all these other cool things.

00:45:20.500 Toucan, I think.

00:45:22.480 Toucan, right?

00:45:23.080 Yeah.

00:45:23.580 See, you know, all these great birds that are in there and you can come to my aviary and

00:45:26.980 see all the birds I collected.

00:45:28.300 I'm like, that's not why you're there, Pastor.

00:45:30.000 Yeah.

00:45:30.340 Right?

00:45:30.500 Take that screen off, right?

00:45:32.520 And let them be birds of prey.

00:45:34.640 Yeah.

00:45:34.960 Let them be, you know, sparrows and let them be whatever they're supposed to be to the glory

00:45:39.200 of God.

00:45:40.020 And they're not yours to collect and become famous because you have the biggest aviary

00:45:43.880 in the country.

00:45:44.700 Yeah.

00:45:45.200 You're going to give an account for those, those little creatures.

00:45:49.040 Yes.

00:45:49.720 And so get after it.

00:45:51.760 You know, that makes me sad.

00:45:54.040 And I'm telling you, one of the things you got to do once you go to your pastor, just

00:45:56.980 full circle, and you love them, come with a heart to bring about change and with solutions,

00:46:03.840 not just problems, and say, I'm here to serve.

00:46:05.840 What can I do?

00:46:06.720 Right?

00:46:07.240 And if nothing else, do what Daniel did.

00:46:08.780 Say, wait, maybe we're not going to change the whole church tomorrow, but do I have permission

00:46:12.840 to lead these group of people this way?

00:46:15.600 That's good.

00:46:16.180 That's good.

00:46:16.380 To start to do it in this little community.

00:46:18.260 And then all of a sudden, people are going to see that little part of that community having

00:46:20.620 all the fun, and they're going to want to jump in on that.

00:46:22.980 That's good.

00:46:23.280 And it's going to infect the church that way.

00:46:24.980 Now, I'll say this.

00:46:26.320 You've got to decide pretty quickly if you, if they, because churches like, this is the truth,

00:46:31.680 most pastors like it when you just want to do that, and they'll even refer to you, right,

00:46:37.080 and talk about the great things the church is doing because you're doing that while they're

00:46:40.500 not asking everybody to do that.

00:46:42.280 And you've got to make sure you're not making people think that because you're there, it's

00:46:47.720 a good church.

00:46:49.300 It's a good church if they're calling everybody there.

00:46:51.680 And again, we all develop at different levels and at different times.

00:46:55.620 But I tell people sooner or later, I hate to say it, but the only way to vote is with your

00:47:00.160 feet and stop funding compromised churches that are more committed to theatrical performance

00:47:07.340 on Sunday, give you great children's ministry, awesome worship, and even exegetical teaching

00:47:13.160 if it's not helping you be that.

00:47:16.840 And I'll just say this.

00:47:17.520 If there's a pastor out there that I can serve or churches, that's kind of what this

00:47:20.720 thing, the 1613 Project that I'm doing is a little bit a part of, is helping people,

00:47:25.160 frankly, it's not something you join.

00:47:27.040 We come to you, whether you're an entertainer, an athlete, a businessman, or a pastor, or

00:47:32.600 a mother, we want to help you be what God wants you to be, right? 0.94

00:47:36.160 So 1613 comes from 1 Corinthians 1613, be in the alert, stand firm in the faith.

00:47:43.240 And then it says, act like men, or the ESV says, act courageously.

00:47:46.360 So if I'm talking to you, I'm not going to say, act like a man, Allie Beth. 0.81

00:47:49.200 I'm going to say, act courageously, because that's what the scripture says.

00:47:52.940 But be strong and let all you do be done in love.

00:48:00.500 Our last sponsor for the day is Constitution Wealth.

00:48:03.960 You want to make sure that you are managing and stewarding your resources in a way that

00:48:07.600 glorifies God.

00:48:08.540 The easiest way to make sure you're doing that is to partner with a company, with an institution

00:48:13.140 that believes in your values.

00:48:15.160 Unfortunately, when you're investing, if you're investing with one of these secular companies,

00:48:18.800 like, it can just be hard to navigate ensuring that you are only donating your dollars or

00:48:24.040 investing your dollars, rather, into causes that you truly believe in.

00:48:28.280 But at Constitution Wealth, they actually screen all of these organizations and causes for Christian

00:48:33.260 values to make sure that your money truly is going where your heart is.

00:48:37.140 So discover what faithful stewardship can really look like when it comes to your dollars by going

00:48:42.400 to constitutionwealth.com slash Allie.

00:48:45.220 You'll get a free consultation.

00:48:47.140 No obligation.

00:48:47.860 Just talk to them.

00:48:48.820 See if it's right for you.

00:48:49.920 That's constitutionwealth.com slash Allie.

00:48:52.800 Constitution Wealth is a registered investment advisor.

00:48:55.260 You should review Constitution Wealth's disclosures at constitutionwealth.com to understand their

00:48:59.880 services and fees.

00:49:01.160 All investing involves risk, including the risk of loss.

00:49:03.780 This is a paid endorsement.

00:49:09.940 You've spoken to us as a pastor so uniquely and importantly.

00:49:13.560 I also want you to speak as a parent to parents, because you might not, not everyone knows this

00:49:20.080 about Todd Wagner, but he's got five.

00:49:22.520 Six.

00:49:23.020 Six?

00:49:24.040 Oh, I missed the last one.

00:49:25.360 The one who's not married.

00:49:26.060 We talked yet.

00:49:26.400 Only the one.

00:49:27.320 The six kids.

00:49:29.380 The one still in college.

00:49:30.020 13 grandkids.

00:49:32.020 And his, I don't know personally every single one of your children.

00:49:36.780 I know some of them personally.

00:49:38.120 And let me just tell you, these are some of the most solid people I know and just incredible.

00:49:45.880 And that is no small feat.

00:49:48.340 And of course we thank the Lord for that, but the Lord equipped you and your wife to raise

00:49:54.380 these amazingly godly children.

00:49:56.780 Five of the six are married.

00:49:59.060 Most of them have children.

00:50:00.580 They take the things of the Lord seriously.

00:50:03.160 And that is our prayer for all of our kids to take the things of the Lord seriously,

00:50:07.680 to put their faith to action.

00:50:09.920 And some people are thinking, wow, the world that we're living in, it's scary and there's

00:50:15.140 a lot of danger out there.

00:50:17.060 Give some encouragement and some practical advice to us who are trying to raise godly kids

00:50:22.160 like the ones you have raised.

00:50:23.380 Well, that's very kind.

00:50:24.440 I think my wife and I would both say, and I appreciate you saying my wife and I, because

00:50:27.440 sometimes when I talk, I say my kids and I always mean our kids.

00:50:30.320 Of course.

00:50:30.700 And so my wife was an amazing, and is an amazing mom, a grandmother.

00:50:35.960 But we would both say that our greatest ministry accomplishment, the greatest grace in our life

00:50:41.440 is that we have been a blessing to our kids and not a burden.

00:50:45.540 We weren't in the way of them trusting in Christ.

00:50:47.640 You know what I mean?

00:50:49.600 You know, Alibeth, Psalm 128 says this, how blessed is the man who fears the Lord, who walks

00:50:55.220 in his ways.

00:50:56.220 When he eats the fruit of his hands, he will be happy.

00:50:59.120 And then it goes on and just reaffirms that.

00:51:05.580 And I will tell you, I knew whatever I did when I ended up going into full-time ministry,

00:51:10.620 which I did not think I was going to do, but God ended me up having me do that.

00:51:16.680 I don't want to raise pastor's kids.

00:51:18.580 We have a whole slew of people that are called PKs because they see their dad say one thing

00:51:24.740 in public, but they don't want to follow him because maybe it's not who he is at home or

00:51:29.460 whatnot.

00:51:30.940 My kids don't even know what it is to be a PK.

00:51:33.180 In fact, they were one time, a well-known pastor's kids were around us and flashed them

00:51:39.360 a PK sign.

00:51:40.260 And they go like, what's that?

00:51:41.040 She goes, PK, you don't know that?

00:51:42.440 And they're like, no, we're not pastor's kids.

00:51:43.940 They literally said that.

00:51:45.040 Because it has such a negative connotation.

00:51:48.100 But here's what I would say to you is we did not want to raise obedient children.

00:51:54.120 We want to raise healthy adults.

00:51:56.260 And so healthy adults have to figure out who God is.

00:51:59.200 And we just told our kids, hey, listen, children are a gift from the Lord.

00:52:03.260 Meaning even though we're your earthly mother and father, we have a stewardship over you.

00:52:07.260 And our job is to, you're his, not ours. 0.99

00:52:10.560 And by God's grace, we've not had a prodigal.

00:52:13.060 Our kids are sinners just like me, right?

00:52:15.580 I come from the line of Adam, redeemed by Christ.

00:52:17.800 They come from the line of Todd, in the line of Adam. 0.96

00:52:20.220 So they had a sinner for a dad.

00:52:22.600 But I will tell them, they saw me order my life and Alex's life by God's word.

00:52:28.680 They saw us repent.

00:52:29.940 They saw us ask for forgiveness.

00:52:31.480 They saw us be committed to reconcile with one another.

00:52:35.320 When we broke bread at meals, we didn't do it in an unworthy manner.

00:52:38.060 If there was conflict amongst us as a Christian family,

00:52:40.360 we would stop and work it out before we ate, before we prayed and remembered Christ in our

00:52:46.960 prayer, we'd just go, let's not do this in an unworthy manner, right?

00:52:50.700 If I need to ask your forgiveness because I was just sharp with your mom in the kitchen 0.80

00:52:53.540 or this little sibling stuff going on here, let's work that out.

00:52:56.460 Let's talk about it.

00:52:57.420 Let's be Christians in our home.

00:53:00.240 So I think when you look in the scripture, the problem, before it becomes a problem with

00:53:06.900 Israel, it's always a problem with the family. 1.00

00:53:08.760 If you look at Israel in the book of Judges, right?

00:53:12.820 Let's go to Samuel because the last judge was Eli, okay?

00:53:17.320 Before, I guess Samuel would be the last judge.

00:53:19.620 But there was a problem with Israel because Eli's sons were not walking with the Lord.

00:53:25.540 Eli wouldn't discipline them.

00:53:27.600 And so that made its way into the way the people just despised the things of the Lord.

00:53:32.500 So I just think, you know, for us, okay, I tell people the kids, the kids who do well

00:53:41.520 are the kids that don't watch their parents go to church.

00:53:44.120 Kids whose parents go to church, I think it's an 80% rate of kids who leave the faith whose

00:53:49.360 parents attend church.

00:53:51.140 That's actually a study by the Baptists, okay?

00:53:55.260 Then, but I will tell you, kids that watch their parents live missionally, right?

00:54:01.220 Who use their home as a mission in their neighborhood, who love and pray for their neighbors, who

00:54:05.680 have their neighbors in their home, who share Christ with the kids' friends and the kids'

00:54:10.740 friends' parents and others that live near them, who work through things biblically in

00:54:15.000 their home and who live Christianly.

00:54:16.320 Those kids, they see the power of God.

00:54:19.180 Let's be honest, man.

00:54:19.920 Going to church is a beating.

00:54:20.900 Getting up on Sunday, pulling everybody together.

00:54:22.800 And if all you do is go to church most weekends when you don't go to the lake or have kids' 0.67

00:54:25.620 sports, those kids are like, I'm going to be just like you.

00:54:28.700 I'm just not going to ruin my Sunday.

00:54:30.660 Hmm.

00:54:31.220 But if they watch you, Allie Beth, if they watch you just think biblically, live biblically,

00:54:37.140 make decisions biblically, and they watch the blessing of that and the fruit of that,

00:54:40.460 they watch you and Tim have friendship with people who are in darkness, all of a sudden

00:54:44.500 walk in the light, and they see the power of God, they want to walk with that God.

00:54:50.920 Yeah.

00:54:51.220 And so I would tell you that my kids saw us be rejected in our community, us being pushed out

00:55:00.380 of certain circles because we asked them to make, even before they were believers, we

00:55:04.640 just said, we're not going to do that.

00:55:07.100 I mean, I remember when kids, whether it was spending the night sometimes or whether it

00:55:11.140 was going to birthday parties where they were going to go see like a James Bond movie in

00:55:14.100 seventh grade.

00:55:14.800 Yeah.

00:55:15.640 I'm like, hey, here's why we're not going to do that.

00:55:17.040 We can meet them up after the movie.

00:55:18.200 And they're like, this is crazy.

00:55:19.260 Nobody lives like that.

00:55:21.300 And we're just like, well, okay.

00:55:23.520 And I think the phrase is, we'll be aliens and strangers.

00:55:27.220 If you're not okay being an alien parent today, then you're not ready to be a biblical parent. 0.88

00:55:34.160 And so if your kids never tell you, nobody does this, then you're probably more like

00:55:39.880 the world than you are like the salt and light that God says you should be.

00:55:43.540 And your kids need to see you live with that conviction and grace.

00:55:46.680 And at a certain point, you tell them, hey, listen, I'm trying to help you see the blessing

00:55:52.640 of walking this way.

00:55:53.540 But then you get to make your choices.

00:55:55.660 And I'm going to let you make age-appropriate choices with age-appropriate consequences.

00:55:58.980 But my whole goal is to let you fly out of this nest and live however you want.

00:56:02.880 Now, my kids, by God's grace, all made decisions that they wanted more of Jesus than they did

00:56:07.100 of the world.

00:56:07.660 Praise God.

00:56:08.160 And it's been a blessing.

00:56:08.980 My favorite quote is by Kirby when she shares her testimony.

00:56:12.760 And her testimony is, because I saw the reality of Christ in the life of my parents and others

00:56:20.680 that they were friends with, and I saw the goodness of God's way, she goes, I have more

00:56:24.680 joy and less scars than my friends.

00:56:27.420 Because at an early age, I embraced the God who gives joy.

00:56:31.240 And I thought to myself, man, what a testimony.

00:56:33.240 Yes.

00:56:33.780 Right?

00:56:34.120 Because most of us think, I don't have a great testimony unless I've got scars.

00:56:38.540 Right?

00:56:39.220 Yeah.

00:56:39.500 Her testimony is, I'm not perfect.

00:56:42.620 I need a Savior.

00:56:44.340 But I have less scars.

00:56:46.340 Mm-hmm.

00:56:46.840 Because from an early age, I've seen the goodness of God.

00:56:49.760 So good.

00:56:50.460 It's so beautiful and so kind.

00:56:52.920 So I would just say, man, parent, you've got to be on.

00:56:55.400 The church is a community of families.

00:56:58.900 Right?

00:56:59.520 So you cannot ask your Christian school or your church to, it can supplement you.

00:57:05.200 It cannot substitute.

00:57:06.440 You are, dad's the priest of your home.

00:57:09.780 You are the priestess of your home.

00:57:11.120 Together, you are forming.

00:57:13.480 You know, people sometimes ask, you know, what's your wife do to me? 1.00

00:57:17.860 And I love the phrase.

00:57:19.460 I just, you know, you usually call people by their highest title, you know?

00:57:22.360 And so I just said, well, she gives birth to and shape to eternal humanity made in the

00:57:25.780 image of God.

00:57:26.720 What's your wife do? 1.00

00:57:28.920 No big deal or anything.

00:57:30.020 She's a corporate attorney? 0.95

00:57:31.200 Yeah.

00:57:31.760 Okay.

00:57:32.440 Yeah.

00:57:32.600 You know, I mean, again, I understand some people are going to-

00:57:35.360 No, everything's small potatoes compared to that.

00:57:38.820 Everything.

00:57:39.720 Yeah.

00:57:39.900 I mean, Allie Beth, this podcast, as amazing as it is, and we talked about this before we

00:57:44.440 went on air today, right?

00:57:45.900 When I saw what you did, right?

00:57:48.320 Because this thing is, this is a service to a lot of us.

00:57:51.060 You know, I love what you're doing.

00:57:51.940 But you recently just stepped it back because you believe what I just said, right?

00:57:59.060 That's right.

00:57:59.500 You and Tim made a decision.

00:58:01.500 There might be a day, I'll do five days a week, but now, not now, because my primary

00:58:07.200 calling, right, is to be present with my kids.

00:58:11.660 Yeah.

00:58:12.220 So I just said, thank you, right?

00:58:15.580 I think that your greatest episode this year has been the episodes you haven't filmed.

00:58:19.800 Yeah.

00:58:21.220 So true.

00:58:22.140 Because what it says.

00:58:23.280 Yeah.

00:58:23.660 And what it's going to produce in your kids.

00:58:24.960 Such a good way to say that.

00:58:26.240 Yeah.

00:58:26.360 Thank you for saying that.

00:58:27.740 Can you reiterate where people can find out about the 1613 Project and also Unhindered?

00:58:32.740 Yeah.

00:58:33.720 So they're not very impressive websites, but unhindered.org is where they can get a hold

00:58:39.680 of me.

00:58:39.920 And also the 1613project.com.

00:58:44.020 That's a .com.

00:58:44.800 And then what we do, myself and some others that are working with me now, is we just like,

00:58:50.300 hey, how can we serve you?

00:58:51.120 And one of the things that we're working on right now is pulling together a bunch of pastors

00:58:53.960 who want to be faithful in this way, and pastors and elders, and just encourage each

00:58:59.680 other, not form a denomination, but a network of guys that go, let's remind each other that

00:59:04.840 we're not going to be successful because we have a building or more people, right?

00:59:10.440 The old joke is buildings, budgets, and butts in seats, but I'm telling you, that's powerful.

00:59:15.060 You wouldn't believe how many pastors are still driven by that.

00:59:20.620 And I just want those folks to go, hey, man, you know, and I actually, it's so funny.

00:59:26.960 I finished a book four years ago that's written, and I just haven't released it because when

00:59:31.140 I transitioned away, but the book was, the working title was Holy Discontent, and it was

00:59:36.120 W-H-O-L-L-Y, right?

00:59:39.380 And it was really a warning to pastors if they're not doing what God wants them to do.

00:59:47.980 And it was also to tell people, if you aren't discontent with your church, if it just is

00:59:54.560 satisfied with cutting a deal with you, this is, I answered some of the questions that you

01:00:00.440 have in there, and I probably need to push it out and just, and get it done, but I think,

01:00:07.340 so 1613project.com, unhindered.org, and every now and then do a little podcast called the

01:00:12.780 Todd Wagner Show, but if you're going to choose between that and the Alibeth podcast, go to

01:00:17.620 Relatable.

01:00:17.820 There's room for both.

01:00:18.980 There's room for both.

01:00:20.080 Well, Todd, thank you so much.

01:00:21.380 I really just appreciate your wisdom and your encouragement.

01:00:23.540 It was exactly what we need.

01:00:24.760 So I appreciate you, and thank you.

01:00:26.800 Thank you, Alibeth.

01:00:27.520 Thank you, Alibeth.

01:00:30.440 Thank you.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - September 26, 2025

Ep 1246 ｜ Unbiblical Churches： A Pastor’s List of Red Flags ｜ Todd Wagner

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript