Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1247 ｜ Three Men & a Baby： Polyamory Is Infiltrating Foster Care

00:00:00.780 The sexual revolution is reaching new lows as polycules around the world are now adopting 1.00

00:00:08.900 babies and children.

00:00:11.480 Also, our friend Voti Bakum has gone to be with the Lord, and so we will pay tribute

00:00:16.760 to him, but we will also do our best to bring clarity to the chaos of the culture that is

00:00:23.220 raging around us in a variety of ways on today's episode of Relatable.

00:00:26.940 If you love this show, please leave us a five-star review wherever you listen or watch.

00:00:31.740 Also, subscribe.

00:00:32.920 If you're not subscribed on Spotify or Apple or Google Play or on YouTube, make sure that

00:00:37.760 you are.

00:00:38.140 It really helps the show out a lot, and make sure that we can continue to bring you content

00:00:43.060 that gives you the clarity and courage that you're looking for.

00:00:46.420 This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers.

00:00:49.080 Go to GoodRanchers.com.

00:00:50.260 Use code Allie at checkout. 1.00

00:00:51.340 That's GoodRanchers.com, code Allie.

00:00:56.940 Hey guys, welcome to Relatable.

00:01:04.220 Happy Monday.

00:01:05.220 Hope everyone had a wonderful weekend.

00:01:07.640 Here to remind you that God's eternal plan of redemption is still going off without a hitch.

00:01:13.040 It's always going off without a hitch, and he's not surprised by anything going on in the

00:01:17.700 world or anything going on in your life.

00:01:20.660 Nothing throws him off.

00:01:21.860 Nothing takes him aback.

00:01:22.980 He's not looking down, wondering, how did you get yourself into this mess?

00:01:27.220 But he is sovereign.

00:01:29.680 He is in control.

00:01:32.980 He is the ultimate ruler over the heavens and the earth.

00:01:36.340 And while we live in this broken world with evil and with things that cause fear and anxiety,

00:01:44.860 we can trust that Jesus wins, and we can trust that he is coming back to claim total victory,

00:01:51.540 and we are to push back against darkness from a place of victory, not just for a victory,

00:01:59.200 because we know that Jesus' victory is sure.

00:02:02.800 It's something that we can look forward to and that we can anchor our hope in,

00:02:07.860 even when it seems like the world is falling down around us.

00:02:11.360 Certainly, when we scroll through our phone and we see the news, it feels that way,

00:02:15.180 but maybe it feels that way in your own life, too.

00:02:17.700 Maybe your life has taken unexpected turns over the past couple of weeks, over the past couple

00:02:22.620 of years, and you're wondering where God is in all of that.

00:02:26.620 But Romans 8, 28 tells us that God works all things.

00:02:30.160 That's all things together for the good of those who love him, who are called according to

00:02:35.180 his purpose.

00:02:35.680 Now, that doesn't mean that God is reveling in the evil or the wickedness or the violence

00:02:42.560 that occurs, that he wants those things to happen.

00:02:45.420 That's certainly not true.

00:02:46.920 It will always be somewhat of a mystery to understand that God is omnipotent, so he's

00:02:52.560 all-powerful, he's omniscient, he's omnipresent, he can do absolutely anything he wants, and yet

00:03:00.300 he still allows really bad things to happen, bad things that are beyond our comprehension

00:03:06.300 that can be really tough to understand, whether we're looking at what's going on in the world

00:03:10.880 or looking at what's going on in our own lives.

00:03:13.980 And yet, we know that both things are true, that we live in a fallen world and that God

00:03:19.040 is totally in control.

00:03:20.980 And the good news is, as we read in Psalm 37, that God is not doing nothing about the

00:03:26.000 injustice and the evil that goes on.

00:03:27.920 And his wrath is kindling, and he has a day and an hour that he has preordained since the

00:03:34.160 beginning of time, since before the beginning of time, for his return.

00:03:38.140 And one day, he will avenge his people. 0.77

00:03:41.400 One day, wicked will be no more.

00:03:43.360 One day, there will be no more sin.

00:03:45.300 There will be no more sadness.

00:03:46.660 There will be no more sickness.

00:03:48.100 There will be no more abortion.

00:03:49.780 There will be no more chaos.

00:03:51.240 There will be no more confusion.

00:03:52.700 And those of us who are believers in Christ Jesus for our salvation will be with him forever

00:04:00.420 and ever in perfect peace.

00:04:02.580 It will feel like, you know, after you've been on a really long trip and maybe you had

00:04:09.400 a lot of travel delays and you had to deal with a really annoying gate agent who didn't

00:04:15.320 want to give you any mercy.

00:04:16.700 Maybe you missed your flight and you've just been carrying this burden of stress and adrenaline

00:04:20.820 for so long you don't even realize how much tension you have in your shoulders as soon

00:04:25.880 as you get home.

00:04:27.340 And you're able to drop your bags and sit down and just that relief and that peace floods

00:04:33.720 over you.

00:04:34.460 That's how it will feel multiplied by infinity when we get to the other side of glory.

00:04:41.300 No more burden of sin or sadness.

00:04:43.800 So I just want to encourage you with that.

00:04:45.720 I want to start out the week with that because we're going to talk about some things today that

00:04:50.020 could easily cultivate fear inside you or anger or sadness.

00:04:55.480 And that's not why we talk about these things.

00:04:57.560 Sometimes those are justified responses to what's going on in the news.

00:05:03.420 But we can have peace and joy while still understanding what's going on in the world.

00:05:09.040 We have to be able to do both.

00:05:11.160 Our peace can't come from closing our eyes to what's going on.

00:05:15.100 And the reason for that is I saw an influencer say, oh, we just need to ignore politics altogether

00:05:21.120 because it just causes fear and anxiety.

00:05:23.340 While I understand that sentiment, what do we always say?

00:05:26.640 Politics matter because policy matters because people matter.

00:05:29.720 Politics affects policy.

00:05:31.320 Policy affects people.

00:05:32.440 And people matter.

00:05:33.560 They matter to God because they're made in his image.

00:05:35.840 And therefore, as Christians, they have to matter to us.

00:05:38.260 And so politics is not the only or the primary way to love your neighbor, but it's a way

00:05:43.280 to love your neighbor.

00:05:44.600 Because how our policy changes and how our culture shifts has a real tangible effect on

00:05:51.360 people, especially the most vulnerable, especially the powerless, including, and I would say especially

00:05:57.700 children, both in and outside of the womb.

00:06:00.740 So a lot of the stories that we're going to be talking about today have to do with that.

00:06:05.420 They have to do with evil, but what can we do as Christians who are here on this earth,

00:06:10.480 who are seeking the welfare of the city that God has providentially placed us in?

00:06:15.240 What can we do to push back against darkness for the glory of God and for the good of other

00:06:19.520 people?

00:06:20.340 So that's what today's episode is going to be about.

00:06:23.020 But I just want to read you first, kind of in the spirit of that, I want to read you this

00:06:28.680 incredible testimony that I saw Denny Burke post on Acts.

00:06:33.300 Denny Burke, we've cited him many times before.

00:06:35.760 He is a seminary professor.

00:06:37.300 He's awesome.

00:06:38.080 But he quoted Wayne Grudem, who recently wrote about this Christian school that he started

00:06:44.560 in Chicago in the 80s.

00:06:46.600 If you don't know who Wayne Grudem is, he's an incredible theologian.

00:06:50.040 He's written lots of things, but the thing that I cite most from Wayne Grudem, we've also

00:06:53.860 had him on the show before, is systematic theology.

00:06:57.500 I really encourage you to invest in a systematic theology book.

00:07:00.920 It's a little bit pricey, but it's very well-priced for what you're getting.

00:07:05.180 The theological information and the clarity of what you are getting in systematic theology

00:07:10.240 from Wayne Grudem is just incredible.

00:07:12.040 It will be invaluable to you.

00:07:13.840 It will break things down, and you will treasure this, I think, for the rest of your life.

00:07:19.420 So go get you systematic theology by Wayne Grudem.

00:07:22.700 But he wrote this, and it was a testimony about Charlie Kirk, and it's just amazing.

00:07:28.360 He said, sometimes the results of our ministry appear many years later.

00:07:32.460 In 1982, when our oldest son, Elliot, was in third grade, Margaret began to think that

00:07:37.300 we needed a Christian school in the north suburban Chicago area.

00:07:40.860 There were none near us.

00:07:42.180 As we talked, I agreed with her.

00:07:44.200 We began to talk with other parents, and soon we formed a committee to address the possibility

00:07:48.520 of founding a Christian school.

00:07:50.380 After many presentations at many churches and in many homes, Christian Heritage Academy opened

00:07:55.740 in 1984 in Northbrook, Illinois, with 59 students in grades kindergarten through sixth.

00:08:02.880 The school now has moved to nearby Northfield, Illinois, and has over 400 students in grades

00:08:08.620 K through 12.

00:08:09.840 I was the first president of the board from 1982 to 1984.

00:08:14.400 I think many of you who received this prayer memo, so this is a prayer memo that he sends out,

00:08:19.960 worked with us to get Christian Heritage Academy started.

00:08:22.780 I'm going to try not to cry as I read this last paragraph.

00:08:26.900 Try not to.

00:08:28.580 Okay, I can do it.

00:08:31.940 I don't know.

00:08:32.880 Can I do it?

00:08:33.460 I don't know.

00:08:35.440 Okay, he says, fast forward to about 2005.

00:08:40.160 Oh my goodness.

00:08:41.920 He says there was an 11-year-old boy in fifth grade.

00:08:44.680 And one day, after hearing a challenge from a teacher, he raised his hand to commit his

00:08:51.400 life to Christ.

00:08:52.260 This commitment set the direction of his whole life.

00:08:54.840 The young boy's name was Charlie Kirk.

00:08:57.420 Okay, I'm going to stop crying now and just encourage you with this, that you never know.

00:09:08.060 You never know what seeds your small step of obedience is planting.

00:09:16.860 You just never know.

00:09:18.700 This was an idea that Wayne Grudem's wife had.

00:09:21.400 Maybe she was just asleep one night.

00:09:24.620 She woke up and she said, hey, this would be a really good idea.

00:09:28.840 Or maybe it was something that had been cultivated over time by multiple people in her life.

00:09:35.040 But God planted the seeds of this idea more than 10 years before Charlie Kirk was born.

00:09:42.800 And yet God knew.

00:09:43.960 God knew before he placed that idea in her heart, before they were able to raise their

00:09:50.680 first dollar, God knew.

00:09:52.500 Every single student in every single life that would be discipled and affected through this

00:09:58.020 school.

00:09:58.580 But he also knew that it would affect Charlie Kirk's life.

00:10:01.720 He also knew that this was the means by which Charlie would hear the gospel and believe

00:10:07.340 the gospel.

00:10:08.980 And God knew.

00:10:10.640 God knew how this would set him up and how many lives would then be changed through God

00:10:16.900 by Charlie's evangelism.

00:10:18.900 And so you just don't know what God is doing.

00:10:23.480 You might not even get to see in this lifetime how many people you have affected just by doing

00:10:29.600 the next right thing in faith.

00:10:31.680 And so I just want to encourage you that the seemingly small, unseen, unsung acts of obedience

00:10:38.660 that you are doing every single day in your home, at your work, at your school, with your

00:10:45.260 neighbors, in your community, God is doing something with them.

00:10:50.260 And it won't be until we get to the other side of glory that we see the fullness of the tapestry

00:10:56.940 that God has put together that makes up all of the interwoven testimonies of his church

00:11:04.320 for the past 2,000 years.

00:11:06.540 Like, how good is God?

00:11:08.220 He is in the business of redemption, of making beauty out of ashes, and Satan can try his

00:11:13.960 darndest.

00:11:14.500 God has given him some authority as the prince of the power of the air, as we read in Ephesians

00:11:19.360 2.

00:11:20.460 But God loves to give Satan a little authority, stack the odds against himself, and then do

00:11:28.920 what seems like the impossible to bring himself glory.

00:11:33.420 And God will stop at nothing to bring all of his flock to himself.

00:11:39.060 So don't be discouraged.

00:11:40.640 Don't lose heart.

00:11:44.540 Don't be dismayed.

00:11:46.300 Remember, we serve a Jesus who has overcome the world, and he has very graciously ordained

00:11:52.860 that you and me are vessels by which he is going to accomplish his perfect will.

00:11:57.580 So let's live trusting in God's sovereignty.

00:12:01.620 Let's live boldly knowing that we are immortal until God calls us home.

00:12:07.100 That we are bulletproof until God calls us home.

00:12:10.340 And go full steam ahead in complete and total surrender to Christ.

00:12:16.180 All right.

00:12:17.080 We got to get into some more stuff in just a second, but I just want to say a couple things.

00:12:21.680 One, we are less than two weeks away from Share the Arrows, which I'm wearing my Share

00:12:26.100 the Arrows Carly Jean Los Angeles sweatshirt right now.

00:12:30.220 You can see it.

00:12:31.220 This year's Share the Arrows is brought to you by Carly Jean Los Angeles, but they've also

00:12:34.500 got all of our merch.

00:12:35.700 Um, we are going to have more merch than we did last year because we underestimated how

00:12:41.940 many of you would want the items, but all of the stuff is so cute.

00:12:45.580 I posted some pictures on my Instagram today.

00:12:47.780 You can see the rest of it.

00:12:49.460 You'll be able to get it there.

00:12:50.580 This is only available for event attendees.

00:12:53.160 So come to Share the Arrows.

00:12:55.660 There's a lot going on in the world, y'all.

00:12:58.300 It can feel scary.

00:12:59.800 It can feel overwhelming.

00:13:01.020 And you might feel alone.

00:13:02.560 Whether you are a curious skeptic or whether you are a seasoned believer, whether you are

00:13:07.980 18 years old or 85 years old, this is for you.

00:13:12.220 Whether you are single, whether you are married, whether you're a mom or a grandmother, it doesn't

00:13:17.380 matter.

00:13:17.640 This is for Christian women and seeking women in all stages of life.

00:13:22.520 And I'll go ahead and warn you, if you're looking for self-help, if you're looking for

00:13:25.980 theological fluff, if you're looking for motivational speeches, Share the Arrows is not for you.

00:13:30.500 You're going to be wildly disappointed.

00:13:32.160 But if you want theological depth, if you want to be challenged, if you want to create lifelong

00:13:36.540 friendships with fellow believers, like if you want to walk out there with zero fear of

00:13:42.400 man, if you want courage, if you want to feel grounded and emboldened and like you just

00:13:49.240 want to sell out for Christ, no matter the cost, then you should come to Share the Arrows.

00:13:55.320 You will walk out of there knowing that you're not alone and knowing that the cause of truth

00:14:01.340 in the name of the gospel is totally worth it.

00:14:04.500 So I really want you to join us.

00:14:06.840 I'm so excited.

00:14:08.100 It's going to be amazing.

00:14:09.160 If you go to ShareTheArrows.com, you'll see more information about the speakers.

00:14:14.620 If you're watching anywhere right now, you can see the speakers that we have coming.

00:14:18.020 It's going to be so good, y'all.

00:14:19.780 Go to ShareTheArrows.com.

00:14:20.900 You can use my code.

00:14:21.900 If you press unlock on Ticketmaster, type in Allie20, no spaces, and that will give you 20%

00:14:28.380 off any of the tickets.

00:14:31.140 So go to ShareTheArrows.com.

00:14:33.180 Use that code, Allie20.

00:14:35.100 So excited to see you guys there.

00:14:36.920 Before we get back into the show, let me tell you about our first sponsor, and that is

00:14:42.400 Every Life.

00:14:43.180 We love Every Life.

00:14:44.440 They're also going to be at Share the Arrows.

00:14:46.440 It's where we get all of our diapers and wipes.

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00:15:45.740 All right.

00:15:46.820 So we are going to have more information, I'm sure, about this as the days and weeks go

00:15:53.160 on.

00:15:53.440 But I just want to acknowledge this absolute tragedy that occurred yesterday.

00:15:59.740 A Michigan Mormon community was targeted in Grand Blanc, Michigan.

00:16:05.500 It's a town that's 60 miles northwest of Detroit.

00:16:09.680 The suspect is identified as a 40-year-old man from Burton, Michigan.

00:16:13.660 He was later shot dead by the police in the building's car park.

00:16:17.900 Right now, we've learned that there are four dead, and that there are at least eight injured.

00:16:26.340 But what I'm reading from the BBC is that some people remain unaccounted for.

00:16:30.880 I mean, I am sure that there were children that were victims.

00:16:34.960 We don't know for sure why exactly this person targeted the Mormons in this community if he

00:16:43.160 had some kind of personal tie.

00:16:44.820 I think there's some speculation about that.

00:16:47.900 It does seem that this is a pattern, not specifically for Mormons, although I'm sure that Mormons are

00:16:57.280 targeted in a variety of ways.

00:16:59.560 But certainly non-Islamic religions, whether it's a Christian church, whether it's a Mormon 0.97

00:17:07.420 community, whether it's a synagogue, over the past few years, we have seen this kind of

00:17:16.180 extremist, what seems like progressive or pro-Palestinian violence against these kinds of institutions.

00:17:24.720 And so, I mean, not only pray for this community who has just been indelibly affected by this and

00:17:31.980 pray for the families, give them peace, pray for the people who are in the hospital who are

00:17:37.060 injured, but just we've got to pray for some.

00:17:41.460 I mean, obviously, hopefully we are seeing an awakening and a revival that is going to seep into the hearts

00:17:46.320 of all kinds of people, but we are seeing a certain segment of American society become more and more

00:17:52.720 radicalized and more and more violent against who they perceive as their enemies of their radical

00:18:01.760 movement.

00:18:02.360 And obviously, like we saw the completely disparate reactions to Charlie Kirk's assassination from an

00:18:10.440 a, you know, by an avowed progressive and the death of George Floyd, we had vigils versus violence.

00:18:19.800 And I think the difference is only going to become more and more stark.

00:18:23.940 And we have to stay committed to peace.

00:18:26.400 We have to show that dichotomy of light versus darkness.

00:18:29.940 But that does not mean that the government does not have a role to step in in a very aggressive way

00:18:37.220 to do whatever they can to preempt this kind of violence.

00:18:41.500 And so praying for that, praying that our leaders would have courage to do the right thing and to do

00:18:48.100 what they have to do to carry out their God-ordained responsibility, as we read in Romans 13,

00:18:55.840 to restrain evil.

00:18:57.400 Not only did this murderer shoot up this Mormon community, but also used accelerant on the building, 0.98

00:19:08.240 most likely gasoline, to start a blaze.

00:19:11.280 And then, you know, the entire building caught a blaze.

00:19:15.160 And I don't think we know yet the damage, the extent of the damage.

00:19:19.340 So please pray for them.

00:19:21.540 Pray for this community.

00:19:23.020 Pray for an end to this kind of violence.

00:19:25.980 All right.

00:19:27.420 We'll probably be talking more about that in the next couple weeks.

00:19:31.440 But I wanted to talk about something that we actually haven't addressed in a while.

00:19:36.340 We've talked about it over the span of Relatable many, many times over the years.

00:19:42.700 But we kind of we've taken a break a little bit from talking about things like surrogacy and IVF,

00:19:49.940 not intentionally.

00:19:50.640 There's just been a lot of other things to talk about.

00:19:52.960 But I have a lot of new people here.

00:19:55.240 And so just buckle up for a conversation that maybe you haven't heard before.

00:20:02.520 I am having Katie Faust speak at Share the Arrows, and she's the best on this.

00:20:07.580 She is the best on pro-child politics and how we center the child and how we structure society

00:20:13.720 and how we pass laws.

00:20:15.680 And she is a champion of the reality that kids are best suited.

00:20:21.860 The ideal situation for every child is to live with their married biological mom and dad. 0.91

00:20:29.200 And before you post your caveats and your kind of exceptions to that, that is the ideal.

00:20:37.580 That is in general true.

00:20:39.280 That is in principle true.

00:20:41.680 Every data set we have, and we'll get into some specific numbers, shows that kids are

00:20:47.080 best suited to live with their married biological mom and dad.

00:20:53.960 Yes, there are some exceptions to that, but the exceptions just prove the rule.

00:20:58.760 So when we venture outside of that, whether it's two men or two women raising a child, whether 0.63

00:21:04.460 it's one woman or one man raising a child, you fall outside of the ideal.

00:21:09.680 Now, sometimes that's inevitable.

00:21:11.380 There is a death of a parent, or maybe the mother was abandoned.

00:21:15.960 Of course, sometimes those are tragic scenarios.

00:21:19.460 But when we are talking about the sexual revolution that has occurred over the past 20 years,

00:21:24.820 and especially the past 10 years since Obergefell, we are talking about intentionally creating

00:21:30.680 motherless and fatherless children, intentionally taking children out of the ideal and putting

00:21:37.640 them in, in the most charitable terms, a less than ideal situation, knowing that the data

00:21:44.840 shows us that this is not best for their well-being.

00:21:48.760 This is not best for their upbringing.

00:21:51.140 And as Christians, we are called to champion the cause of the fatherless.

00:21:55.220 And for whatever reason, there are a lot of Christians, especially those who fancy themselves 0.99

00:22:00.140 social justice Christians, who don't include these children who are being purposely raised 0.91

00:22:06.680 without a father or purposely raised without a mother in that category of vulnerability,

00:22:12.060 of fatherlessness that we see throughout scripture.

00:22:15.680 And I'm sure that we can deduce that motherlessness would be included in that category of vulnerability,

00:22:21.780 but that is such a historical aberration that it wouldn't have made sense for at the time

00:22:28.060 the Bible to have language for that because it's been virtually impossible and so very rare

00:22:33.700 for a mother to abandon her children. 1.00

00:22:36.540 But now through IVF and surrogacy and the loosey-goosey regulations of adoption, motherlessness is not

00:22:43.780 only allowed in society today, but it's celebrated.

00:22:46.960 We treat children who are born in these surrogacy situations worse than we treat puppies or kittens. 0.69

00:22:53.480 We understand that puppies and kittens need to stay with their mom for at least six weeks.

00:22:57.520 But when you have two men that buy the eggs from one woman, that rent the womb from another woman, 0.97

00:23:03.540 and then force this child away from their biological mom and away from the only body and home they've ever known

00:23:10.520 immediately after birth, placed them on their strange hairy chest, you've got two men who are exploiting

00:23:20.740 these women and who are commodifying this child and treating this child worse than we treat animals in the United States. 1.00

00:23:28.140 Okay, that is just one small part and one small terrible consequence to the LGBTQ revolution 1.00

00:23:36.260 that has just taken over over the past 10 years.

00:23:39.840 But when you change the definition of marriage, of parenting just a little bit, that opens the door

00:23:46.720 to every other kind of relationship.

00:23:49.440 So now it's not just two men or two women who are having these children through whatever means possible,

00:23:56.560 but now we have three men or two men and one woman or any kind of combination of thruple or polycule that's out there.

00:24:06.260 Being validated and allowed to raise children because we have decided to lay a child's needs and well-beings

00:24:16.200 on the altar of adult sexual wants.

00:24:19.440 We are no better than the Aztecs.

00:24:21.860 We are no better than any other pagan society that has ever lived. 1.00

00:24:25.760 We are still sacrificing children, whether it's through abortion, whether it's gender ideology,

00:24:31.220 butchering the bodies of children, or whether it's through this.

00:24:34.140 Purposely laying them down on the altar of adults' sexual whims.

00:24:40.100 That's what's going on right now, especially in Quebec.

00:24:43.080 I saw this video going around that explains that this polycule of three dudes just adopted a little baby girl

00:24:49.500 and my heart is just broken.

00:24:51.720 Here's that one.

00:24:53.000 For the last seven years, Jonathan Bédard, Eric Leblanc, and Justin Maheu have been waiting to become parents

00:25:00.540 together, something that officially happened yesterday.

00:25:04.360 She's perfect, of course.

00:25:05.720 Like Annie, she's curious, she's energetic, she loves to play, she loves to jump, she loves to dance.

00:25:10.920 They adopted their three-year-old through Quebec's youth protection services,

00:25:15.520 but first had to be approved as foster parents, something that required a lot of work and openness,

00:25:21.840 they say, to their relationship.

00:25:23.920 We had a lot of things to go through in order to be able to have that accreditation,

00:25:29.700 and it's through that process that they learned that we are a little different because we're three,

00:25:34.700 but we're not different from any other family.

00:25:37.240 You actually are, though, because you're three dudes, which tells me you have no moral limits.

00:25:45.700 Like if you're willing to not only defy nature, and you are willing to defy even liberal definitions

00:25:54.120 of marriage, and you live in some kind of inherently unstable polycule situation,

00:26:02.560 then you do not have the correct components to raise a child.

00:26:08.720 I think that, okay, even if we take religion out of it, let's just look at this scientifically.

00:26:14.820 Two men or two women who want to be in a relationship have to acknowledge that they do not have the parts

00:26:23.480 that are needed to create a child.

00:26:26.120 And therefore, because biology, not bigotry, has set limitations on your reproductive abilities,

00:26:35.580 then there should be limits and restrictions and regulations around your ability to obtain and raise a child.

00:26:44.540 Because you see all of the hoops that have to be jumped through,

00:26:48.480 and all of the moral limitations that have to be placed to the side in order for an inherently unstable relationship like this

00:27:01.120 to procure a child.

00:27:04.780 I'm very sad for this little girl.

00:27:08.320 And I will say without apology, and this is like, this is a big statement.

00:27:12.980 And it's hard to say because I think foster care is so terrible in so many ways,

00:27:20.820 and that it's not even close to an ideal for a child.

00:27:24.500 But this little girl would be better off in foster care until she is 18 years old

00:27:30.180 than living with three men who are living in a polycule situation.

00:27:37.120 100% because there is no end to the confusion and instability and chaos that a situation like this can cause.

00:27:48.720 I've got more to say on that in just a second.

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00:29:07.760 Okay, so this is totally legal in Quebec, but this is also legal elsewhere.

00:29:18.480 In Glamour magazine, I found this article from 2017.

00:29:22.360 A New York judge granted child custody to a polyamorous family.

00:29:25.940 A Suffolk County Supreme Court judge ruled in 2017 that three adults could share custody

00:29:32.040 of a 10-year-old, saying the child viewed all three as parents, and the three parents

00:29:36.620 offer a loving environment.

00:29:39.400 See, this is where love is love gets us.

00:29:42.780 Love is not love.

00:29:43.920 That's just circular.

00:29:44.940 That's like saying trans women are women. 0.97

00:29:46.820 But what's a woman? 1.00

00:29:47.800 What is love?

00:29:49.180 Like, that's important.

00:29:50.220 It's not just a feeling.

00:29:51.240 It's not just a desire.

00:29:53.880 It's something deeper than that.

00:29:55.640 It is seeking the best interest and the well-being, the highest well-being of the person that you

00:30:02.680 are trying to love.

00:30:03.960 And we don't define that by just what they want or just what we want as Christians.

00:30:08.820 We understand that we define good, and we define benefit, and we define well-being.

00:30:14.640 We define love how God defines all of those things.

00:30:17.640 Because 1 John 4, 8 tells us that God is love.

00:30:20.540 So he gets to define it.

00:30:22.080 And one thing we read about love in 1 Corinthians 13, verse 6, says that we should never rejoice

00:30:27.580 in wrongdoing, but rejoice in the truth.

00:30:31.120 So we cannot affirm sin.

00:30:32.600 We cannot validate lies.

00:30:34.400 We cannot support destructive policies and say that we are loving someone just because

00:30:38.540 we're affirming their way of life, or we're not being judgmental, or we're validating how

00:30:45.540 they feel.

00:30:45.960 That's not love.

00:30:47.380 And by the way, Christians are called to judge with righteous judgment.

00:30:51.440 We are not called to be hypocrites.

00:30:53.620 And so we shouldn't be condemning someone for something that we are also actively guilty of.

00:30:59.320 But we are supposed to be calling a spade a spade.

00:31:02.760 We are called to tell the truth.

00:31:04.840 We are called to push back against darkness and to expose the unfruitful works of darkness,

00:31:11.480 as we read in the book of Ephesians.

00:31:13.840 And so it is very important for us to be able to look at something like this and say, no.

00:31:18.580 In fact, that has been the history, the legacy, the heritage of Christians since the very

00:31:23.400 beginning.

00:31:23.880 It's not about being divisive or even primarily political.

00:31:26.720 It's just about being biblical.

00:31:28.840 First chapter of the first book of the Bible, Genesis 127, tells us that God made us male

00:31:33.700 and female in his image.

00:31:34.820 He created us.

00:31:35.500 He created gender, marriage, family, the value of human life, all in one verse in the very

00:31:40.060 first chapter of the first book of the Bible.

00:31:41.460 For Christians, this should not be hard.

00:31:44.200 OK, so let me keep going on this story and clamor.

00:31:46.900 Don and Michael Morano, a married couple, formed a polyamorous relationship with their

00:31:50.940 neighbor.

00:31:52.400 OK, and their neighbor carried their son via surrogacy and all three co-parented until Don

00:31:58.320 and Michael's divorce sparked a custody battle.

00:32:01.200 What?

00:32:02.440 They got a divorce?

00:32:04.220 I'm shocked.

00:32:06.300 I, I, that, that, that just throws me for a loop.

00:32:09.580 I definitely thought that this was a, an, in sickness or in health, holy covenant kind

00:32:15.840 of situation here.

00:32:17.280 I can't believe that this is inherently unstable.

00:32:21.580 At the time, one of these people, Michael, planned to appeal the ruling saying that Don is not

00:32:27.180 entitled to custody because she isn't biologically related to the child.

00:32:30.860 Oh, see the problems that surrogacy causes.

00:32:33.960 Has caused since the beginning, by the way.

00:32:35.960 Some people who push back against my surrogacy stance, because I think it's always wrong

00:32:39.620 in every situation, because you're always asking the child to do something difficult

00:32:44.220 on behalf of the whims of adults, which is leave the, leave the only body, the only home

00:32:51.820 that he or she has ever known.

00:32:53.420 And if you've got a question about adoption, I'll answer that in a second.

00:32:56.220 Um, but it creates these complications and going back to the beginning, going back to

00:33:02.320 Genesis again, like we see the complications of surrogacy.

00:33:06.600 When we look at Hagar, people say, oh, well, surrogacy is in the Bible.

00:33:10.800 Yeah, it, it was bad.

00:33:13.100 Like it didn't end well.

00:33:14.960 God still took care of Hagar, took care of Ishmael, but, um, it created problems. 0.52

00:33:21.280 It created complications.

00:33:22.300 Any time you venture outside of God's ordained definitions for marriage and family, one man, 0.87

00:33:28.340 one woman for a life, first marriage, then kids, things get complicated.

00:33:33.540 Can God redeem?

00:33:34.620 Can God save?

00:33:35.660 Can God rescue?

00:33:37.220 Can God work in and around our sinfulness?

00:33:41.060 Yes, of course, because he's good and he's perfect and we're not, but we should do everything

00:33:46.380 that we can to intentionally stay within God's bounds because we know that he's good.

00:33:50.840 God created marriage in the family for a lot of reasons to reflect the marriage between

00:33:55.440 Christ and the church, but also on a practical level to protect women and children because

00:34:00.420 women and children are physically weaker.

00:34:02.640 And so we need men to protect us.

00:34:04.800 And so we, marriage is amazing because a man who is called in Ephesians 5 to love his wife,

00:34:11.060 to lay his life down for his wife.

00:34:12.780 It's a protector for the woman who is also serving as a protector for the child.

00:34:17.720 Like this saves the child from the predation of the medical industrial complex or from a

00:34:26.600 government prowess or from any kind of predator, from any kind of exploiter, like a strong family

00:34:34.320 unit is the biggest defense against all sorts of societal decay.

00:34:41.960 And this is exactly why Satan comes after it and has from the very beginning, like what

00:34:46.760 did he do?

00:34:47.340 What was part of the curse?

00:34:48.440 There's been enmity between the husband and wife because of Adam's sin of passivity and

00:34:55.520 because of Eve's sin of disobedience and not trusting God.

00:34:59.880 And we still see that manifesting itself today because Satan knew, by the way, that redemption

00:35:05.000 would come through a child.

00:35:08.060 And so he has it out for children because they are vulnerable.

00:35:12.780 So he has it out for marriage.

00:35:14.480 All of this is satanic.

00:35:15.920 And Christians have always been called to speak out against the satanic. 0.55

00:35:20.960 California, Connecticut, Delaware, Maine, Washington, Vermont allow courts to recognize more than

00:35:25.080 two parents under specific conditions.

00:35:28.180 And there are other states that have court rulings that support tripartite.

00:35:34.460 So like this kind of polycule situation, custody or parental rights for a third parent.

00:35:42.620 And there's really no end to this because if three people can all claim to be a valid parent

00:35:49.960 to a person, then why can't 50?

00:35:52.940 And so is that inherently less valid?

00:35:56.840 And why?

00:35:58.320 If we have 50 men who say, oh, yeah, I want to adopt this baby girl.

00:36:03.120 Is anyone allowed to raise an eyebrow?

00:36:05.460 Is anyone allowed to say, oh, something doesn't feel right about this.

00:36:09.720 I'm going to raise a red flag here.

00:36:12.100 Are we allowed to say that without being called bigots?

00:36:15.000 Or maybe we should just stop caring.

00:36:17.420 Maybe we should start caring about the well-being and the rights of children more than we care

00:36:21.800 about the sexual whims or even just the desires, any kind of desires of adults.

00:36:28.180 That's a well-ordered society, right? 0.70

00:36:31.380 And at least when it comes to adoption, there are some restrictions.

00:36:34.640 Like even though, unfortunately, these three men were allowed to adopt this child, they did

00:36:39.780 have to do some things.

00:36:41.500 They supposedly had to prove that, you know, they had some semblance of a stable life.

00:36:47.760 However, when it comes to surrogacy, no such regulations exist.

00:36:53.600 You don't have to go through a background check in order to obtain a child through surrogacy.

00:36:59.520 Surrogacy, all you have to do is have money.

00:37:02.360 You find the egg donor in a catalog.

00:37:05.120 You find the surrogacy or the surrogate in a catalog.

00:37:08.920 And as long as you can pay the tens of thousands of dollars, as long as the women will sign the 1.00

00:37:13.820 dotted line, you can have as many children as you can afford.

00:37:17.260 No one's going to follow up with you.

00:37:19.140 No one's going to come to your home to make sure that child is okay.

00:37:22.620 Surrogacy and the reproductive fertility world in the United States is the wild, wild west. 0.94

00:37:29.700 It is worth billions of dollars.

00:37:32.220 There are virtually no regulations on it.

00:37:35.220 And this is a crime against children.

00:37:38.500 We've got, and this is true whether we're talking about LGBTQ, it's also true when we're

00:37:44.740 talking just about like the ethics behind IVF and surrogacy in general.

00:37:49.800 We've got a million babies, a million embryos who are on ice.

00:37:55.680 Either they've been abandoned, they've been forgotten about, they've been left to be destroyed

00:38:01.420 or thawed out.

00:38:03.200 It is such an egregious sin what we do to unborn life in the United States.

00:38:09.920 It is incredible that God has given us so much mercy and has shown us so much patience.

00:38:15.740 But I want Christians to rise up and to speak out against this stuff, speak up on behalf

00:38:21.780 of children, speak up on behalf of children's rights.

00:38:25.580 Children should have an acknowledged legal right to a mother and father, ideally their

00:38:30.880 mother and father.

00:38:32.540 But everything should be done when children are in foster care, when they're seeking adoption,

00:38:38.180 no matter the situation, everything should be done to ensure that child has a mother and

00:38:44.100 a father because men and women are different.

00:38:46.860 They're not interchangeable.

00:38:48.320 Husbands and wives are different. 0.66

00:38:49.980 Moms and dads are different.

00:38:51.420 God knew what he was doing when he made our biology.

00:38:54.220 I was talking to Elisa Childers the other day and she said something that I hadn't heard

00:38:58.600 before that I thought was a cool way to think about it, which of course we knew.

00:39:03.440 So everyone has their own full digestive system, right?

00:39:08.540 You've got your full circulatory system.

00:39:11.200 We have our neurological system.

00:39:13.940 Like it is complete inside our body as a rule, but you only have half of a reproductive system. 1.00

00:39:19.580 Everyone only has half of a reproductive system. 1.00

00:39:22.180 It cannot, it doesn't produce anything on its own.

00:39:25.380 It needs the other half.

00:39:27.080 And so God created men and women in this obviously biologically complementary and necessary way

00:39:34.760 to advance the human species.

00:39:38.660 And so those of you who believe in science, don't you think at the very least that science

00:39:43.040 tells us a little something about how society should be set up, how marriages and families

00:39:49.000 should be structured?

00:39:50.680 Of course, I believe that it's not only science, but it's also scripture.

00:39:54.680 It's also God himself who is so intelligent and so creative and so good in creating the

00:40:00.220 family structure for us.

00:40:02.160 I think this is like the biggest issue of our day that Christians just need a lot more 1.00

00:40:08.080 courage to speak up about.

00:40:09.500 I love that you speak out against sex trafficking.

00:40:12.200 I love that you speak out against other kinds of exploitation.

00:40:15.560 Are you willing to speak out against the reproductive industry?

00:40:18.640 Are you willing to speak out against the corruption and adoption and foster care agencies?

00:40:22.640 Are you willing to speak out against the redefinition of marriage that has led to millions of fatherless

00:40:30.340 and motherless children? 0.92

00:40:32.500 Now, before I get into this data, which we'll get into in just a second, I do just want to

00:40:37.480 answer the question that I often get.

00:40:38.940 Okay, when we're talking about surrogacy especially, because I'm not trying to conflate surrogacy and

00:40:45.080 adoption, they're not the same things.

00:40:48.000 But particularly when we are talking about two men obtaining the egg, obtaining the womb, 0.93

00:40:56.800 and taking this child away from the mother and the woman who carried them, how is that any different

00:41:02.800 than adoption?

00:41:03.780 That's what people ask because adoption requires you to take this baby away from the mother as

00:41:09.440 soon as he or she is born.

00:41:11.280 So if we're talking about the effects of that, then aren't they morally equal?

00:41:16.260 Well, no.

00:41:16.900 And this is a phrase that we came up with a long time ago that I think helps us understand

00:41:20.840 the difference.

00:41:22.760 Adoption, as a rule, redeems an already broken situation.

00:41:28.560 Surrogacy, sperm donation, egg donation creates a broken situation.

00:41:33.460 So when a woman gets pregnant, she doesn't mean to get pregnant. 0.95

00:41:38.260 She doesn't want to be in the situation where, you know, she has a pregnancy of a baby that 1.00

00:41:43.060 she can't take care of.

00:41:44.600 She is looking for a redemptive option.

00:41:48.380 And so she bravely gives this child up for adoption.

00:41:51.380 That is redeeming a broken situation.

00:41:54.360 But when you are intentionally creating children for the purpose of taking them away from their

00:41:59.420 biological parent or raising them fatherless or motherless, you are creating that broken 1.00

00:42:04.160 situation.

00:42:04.840 So that's the moral difference.

00:42:06.340 It's a really big moral difference.

00:42:07.720 And it really, really matters.

00:42:09.880 All right.

00:42:10.120 Let's get into what the data actually says about how kids fare in different kinds of homes.

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00:43:32.520 So here's a summary of the data that we found.

00:43:36.220 Children in stable, married, biological, two-parent homes consistently show the best outcomes

00:43:41.260 across multiple domains, including cognitive development, educational attainment, behavioral

00:43:45.840 health, emotional stability, and economic security.

00:43:49.000 They have lower rates of delinquency, substance abuse, and mental health issues, higher high

00:43:53.720 school graduation, and college attendance rates.

00:43:56.180 That really should just be it right there.

00:43:58.960 Like we should say, okay, no matter what your personal beliefs are, no matter what your personal

00:44:02.800 desires are, like the data is the data.

00:44:06.140 And it shows that, again, even if you don't agree with the religious undertones of this,

00:44:11.100 that biologically, clearly we are set up in an ideal situation to be with our married mom

00:44:16.440 and dad. It gives us a sense of belonging and purpose and identity that is really important

00:44:22.400 for maturation and proper development.

00:44:25.420 Now, are there kids who will be raised in a different kind of home who will be fine?

00:44:30.260 Are there kids who are raised by an awesome married biological mom and dad who don't turn

00:44:35.540 out fine? Yes.

00:44:36.760 It's not judging it just by the outcomes, but also by just the morality behind it.

00:44:43.560 But we're talking statistically, like we're talking by numbers.

00:44:47.280 We're not talking all.

00:44:48.600 We are talking more likely.

00:44:50.640 So we have to be able to understand things in those terms.

00:44:53.700 A 2014 study in the Journal of Marriage and Family found that children raised by married

00:45:00.240 biological parents had a 50% lower likelihood of experiencing poverty compared to single-parent

00:45:06.000 households and 30% lower than cohabitating households.

00:45:10.000 A meta-analysis of 100 studies showed children in intact two-parent families had better academic

00:45:16.080 performance and fewer behavioral problems, 60% lower risk of delinquency.

00:45:21.520 This is from a 2001 study in the Journal of Marriage and Family.

00:45:24.860 The National Longitudinal Survey of Youth, this is from 1997, found children of married biological

00:45:31.820 parents who are 20% more likely to graduate high school and 25% more likely to attend college

00:45:38.200 than peers from single-mother homes.

00:45:40.380 What we also know, that a very dangerous situation for a child to be in statistically is to live

00:45:47.780 with a male that is not related to him or her.

00:45:51.040 That's not to say all stepdads are bad by any means.

00:45:53.840 I know a lot of you out there are awesome stepdads and have awesome stepdads.

00:45:57.340 But again, statistically, a live-in boyfriend or a male partner who is not biologically related

00:46:04.800 to the child is the most dangerous statistically person in that child's life.

00:46:11.020 And that really matters.

00:46:13.020 If we look at single mother homes, which I think is also important because we see this 1.00

00:46:17.940 rise in fatherlessness, I mean, especially in among the Black American community, I think

00:46:24.800 it's something like 70% plus of babies are born out of wedlock, which if we're looking

00:46:30.780 at delinquency and instability and high school graduation rates, I mean, I think there's a

00:46:37.100 reason why, for example, Asian Americans, they have the lowest divorce rates and they have

00:46:41.660 the highest rates of graduation instability and financial resources and all of that.

00:46:46.280 Those two things are really linked.

00:46:48.160 The U.S. Census Bureau in 2020 reports that 65% of single mother households live below

00:46:53.940 the poverty line.

00:46:56.260 The Fragile Family Study showed that children of single mothers had a 40% higher risk of

00:47:00.540 dropping out of high school compared to peers from married biological parents.

00:47:06.360 Again, we've got data about live-in boyfriends.

00:47:08.980 A 2011 study found that children in cohabitating households with a non-biological male partner,

00:47:14.460 okay, so this is a man and a woman or two men, had a 10% to 20% higher risk of physical or

00:47:21.060 sexual abuse compared to children in married biological two-parent homes.

00:47:26.440 The National Survey of Family Growth showed that cohabitating unions with children were

00:47:30.980 two to three times more likely to dissolve within five years.

00:47:34.320 So think about the polycules that we were just talking about than married unions.

00:47:38.520 They also have higher rates of anxiety and depression than peers in married-to-parent homes.

00:47:44.540 That's from a Manning and Lamb study from 2003.

00:47:49.000 So we have very sparse specific data on polyamorous situations, but I think we can deduce based

00:47:56.140 on all of that data that the best situation is a married mom and dad.

00:48:00.740 Now, there are less than ideal situations because we live in a fallen world.

00:48:04.820 However, we should be doing as a society everything we can to ensure that every child has a mom

00:48:12.020 and dad, and again, ideally a married mom and dad.

00:48:16.300 Now, a lot of people say, well, what are Christians doing?

00:48:19.200 Are Christians not stepping up? 0.91

00:48:21.340 Look, evangelical Christians take up the lion's share of adoptions.

00:48:26.360 Should there be more?

00:48:27.560 There should always be more.

00:48:29.080 Should the church be doing more to empty out the foster cares? 1.00

00:48:32.800 Yes, there's always more.

00:48:35.360 But I don't think this is primarily because the church hasn't adopted again.

00:48:40.340 Like, look at any study.

00:48:41.440 It is primarily specifically evangelical Christians who are going into these foster cares and adopting these kids.

00:48:50.180 It's also because I think in a lot of situations, gay couples are actually prioritized.

00:48:55.180 And we saw with Jessica Bates in the state of Oregon, she's a Christian mom, and she wanted to adopt these kids out of foster care.

00:49:04.100 And the state told her no because she would not sign a form that said, sure, I'll transition my kids if they want to transition their gender. 0.50

00:49:11.880 Sure, I'll affirm their sexuality if they say that, you know, they're whatever they want to be.

00:49:17.240 The state of Oregon tried to require her to sign that.

00:49:19.760 She wouldn't sign it, so they wouldn't let her adopt.

00:49:22.240 And thankfully, Alliance Defending Freedom won her case because it's religious discrimination. 0.99

00:49:26.840 But how often is that happening in sneakier ways across the United States?

00:49:31.240 I would say probably a lot.

00:49:33.400 So I don't think that this is all on the hands of the church.

00:49:37.420 I think it's also because we live in a very messed up world.

00:49:40.940 And so in addition to trying to adopt these kids, Christians have to be changing policy. 0.79

00:49:47.860 Christians have to be changing culture. 1.00

00:49:50.860 All right.

00:49:51.500 I want to talk about my friend Vodhi Bauckham, too, in today's episode.

00:49:56.920 He was an incredible minister, preacher, husband, father of nine kids.

00:50:03.540 And he went home to be with the Lord last week at the age of 56 after a medical emergency.

00:50:08.960 And I just want to honor him.

00:50:10.660 I want to pay tribute to him.

00:50:12.160 He has been on this show several times.

00:50:14.240 And we've been in speaking events together.

00:50:16.320 I think the last time I saw him in person was last June.

00:50:20.200 We spoke at a church in Texas together.

00:50:25.480 And gosh, he was like, he was going full steam ahead then.

00:50:30.100 And I'm sure that just hadn't stopped.

00:50:31.960 I know him and his family had just moved back to the States and had a lot of exciting things

00:50:37.160 ahead with Founders Ministries.

00:50:38.520 He was working down there in Florida.

00:50:41.020 And this is just a tragedy.

00:50:42.480 I mean, it just seems like it's one after the other.

00:50:44.780 We've got James Dobson.

00:50:46.980 We've got John MacArthur.

00:50:48.000 We've got Phil Robertson.

00:50:49.020 We've got Charlie Kirk.

00:50:49.940 We've got Vodhi Bauckham.

00:50:50.900 All of these incredible evangelical theological titans that helped so much infuse clarity into

00:50:58.820 our confused culture.

00:51:00.160 And the Lord is taking them home and adding them to his roster. 0.98

00:51:04.540 And it's a huge gain for them.

00:51:06.800 I mean, what an incredible time to be spending eternity together.

00:51:13.260 But it's a huge loss for us.

00:51:15.040 And I don't think that we have to minimize that.

00:51:17.140 So I'm going to go through some of my favorite things about Vodhi Bauckham, some things that

00:51:21.660 I think that we need to remember him by in just a second.

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00:53:04.320 Votie's sermons were awesome, and he just had so many good responses to the lies of this

00:53:16.680 world, whether it was in his book, Fault Lines.

00:53:19.420 I mean, he's written lots of books, but that was his latest book that he wrote, or just in

00:53:23.900 the talks that he gave.

00:53:25.020 And this is his response to atheism, Satu.

00:53:27.800 We do not have a God who calls upon us for blind faith.

00:53:32.540 We have a God who speaks.

00:53:34.240 We have a God who has revealed himself.

00:53:37.220 So those are the two things that I want to do, right?

00:53:40.120 Number one, just, you know, get off your moral high horse, because you've got presuppositions

00:53:45.000 just like me.

00:53:46.220 And number two, look at what your presuppositions have wrought.

00:53:49.640 And then number three, let me talk to you about mine.

00:53:54.240 Yeah, it's so true.

00:53:55.480 Everyone has presuppositions.

00:53:57.460 Everyone has a lens through which they see the world.

00:53:59.400 Everyone is bringing their worldview to the table when we talk about politics and culture.

00:54:03.600 And so if the atheists can bring their worldview to the table, we're talking about politics 0.91

00:54:07.640 and culture, why can't the Christian, without being called a fascist or a Nazi, no one is

00:54:12.900 neutral.

00:54:13.880 Everyone believes that their view of morality is right.

00:54:16.420 Let's let the best idea win.

00:54:18.380 And atheism has really bad ideas.

00:54:21.120 Atheism is what has wrought so much suffering, especially in the 20th century through socialism

00:54:25.920 and communism.

00:54:27.000 So he's totally right about that.

00:54:29.200 His big thing, I think one of the things he was known best for was advocating for Christian

00:54:34.920 education, particularly homeschool, but really just not public secular education.

00:54:40.240 One of his most famous quotes was, if you send your kids to Caesar, don't be surprised

00:54:45.500 when they come back Romans. 0.97

00:54:46.740 That one brilliant line struck a chord with millions of Christian parents across the country

00:54:54.120 who decided right then and there to sacrifice whatever they had to sacrifice financially,

00:55:00.200 time, energy, effort to make sure that their child had a Christian education either at home

00:55:06.600 or in school.

00:55:08.280 And gosh, he's so right.

00:55:09.520 I mean, we're hitting on a lot of the most controversial things I talk about today.

00:55:12.820 It's actually not abortion or gender among my audience.

00:55:15.640 It's IVF, which you can go back, by the way.

00:55:18.200 We didn't really get into that and listen to my past episodes on IVF.

00:55:21.180 We'll link a couple of them, but also public education because I'm a staunch advocate of

00:55:25.780 Christian education.

00:55:26.960 Not because we absolutely know that it guarantees the outcome of your child's salvation or your

00:55:32.920 child's life, but because of stewardship, because of obedience, because we only have so many hours

00:55:39.140 to disciple our kids.

00:55:40.440 And why would we outsource hours of discipleship to people who don't have the same worldview as

00:55:45.860 us or who aren't even legally allowed to talk about the Christian worldview, even if they do share

00:55:52.020 it?

00:55:52.380 I was talking to a friend a few years ago who was like, yeah, I think we're going to send our child

00:55:56.520 to public school.

00:55:57.200 They live in this nice, affluent area where the public school is probably better than others.

00:56:03.140 And she was like, yeah, it's not woke.

00:56:04.920 We live in this conservative area and I know the teachers and I've heard this a lot, whether you live

00:56:09.260 in Alabama or Georgia.

00:56:10.880 This was very prevalent thing to think and say, especially a few years ago.

00:56:16.380 But my thing is, even if that is true, which it's probably not, it's more pervasive than

00:56:22.000 you think, this progressive ideology.

00:56:23.540 But even if that is true, even if you know all of your kids' teachers, even if you live

00:56:27.520 in a conservative area, it's not just about what they're learning.

00:56:32.680 It's also about what they're not learning.

00:56:34.280 That even if it sands all woke stuff, they're not going to be learning about the Word of God.

00:56:38.920 They're not going to be memorizing scripture.

00:56:41.700 They're not going to be learning the Nicene Creed.

00:56:44.540 They're not going to be singing worship songs.

00:56:46.580 They're not going to be learning that two plus two equals four because God ordained it to

00:56:50.220 be so.

00:56:50.760 And so if your child is not getting that kind of foundation, then they're missing out.

00:57:00.260 And that's not to say that they won't become incredible Christians because primarily the 0.98

00:57:06.500 parent is the discipler.

00:57:08.380 But I think that Christian parents should do everything they possibly can to give their

00:57:13.980 child a Christian education.

00:57:15.260 Like, in addition to my parents taking me to church and just being solid Christians themselves,

00:57:20.720 greatest gift they gave me was giving me 13 years of a Christian education.

00:57:24.440 You guys are asking me all the time, how do you know scripture?

00:57:27.060 How did you memorize scripture?

00:57:28.120 How do you think like this?

00:57:29.000 How did you learn to research Christian school for 13 years?

00:57:32.620 That's what it was.

00:57:33.480 Not only did it give me such a theological foundation, but writing, research, articulating, argumentation.

00:57:40.960 I didn't learn that in college.

00:57:42.480 College was a breeze because kindergarten through 12th grade, I had a really good training, a

00:57:48.300 really good theological training.

00:57:49.420 Not perfect by any means.

00:57:51.280 No school is perfect.

00:57:52.520 But gosh, I am still, I think, reaping the fruit of like a Christ-centered education for

00:57:59.140 13 years of my life.

00:58:00.360 You just can't place a price tag on it.

00:58:01.940 And I think more parents are financially capable of doing it than you think.

00:58:08.740 Doesn't mean it won't take sacrifice.

00:58:10.300 So thank you, Votie Bauckham, for just being willing to not only live that, but to speak

00:58:15.380 that and to teach that.

00:58:16.720 That changed the trajectory of millions of people's lives.

00:58:20.260 So thank you, Votie Bauckham, for your courage on that.

00:58:23.700 Like I said, Votie has been on Relatable several times.

00:58:28.400 We've talked a lot about social justice, especially around the time of 2020.

00:58:33.280 Here's what he had to say about social justice in 2023, SOP 5.

00:58:38.760 I think what we have to do is we've got to just stop, right?

00:58:44.080 We've got to say enough.

00:58:46.140 We've got to call people to account.

00:58:48.280 And we've got to stop letting people make us feel guilty about things that we haven't

00:58:54.380 done, about things that we've had no part in, about things that nobody we know had any

00:59:01.080 part in.

00:59:01.960 Enough already.

00:59:04.420 So good.

00:59:06.200 He was such a strong voice against social and racial justice and all of the critical race 0.98

00:59:12.220 theory nonsense.

00:59:13.160 I mean, he was also just like willing to call people out very specifically by name.

00:59:19.400 And I just always appreciated that about him a lot.

00:59:22.360 All right.

00:59:22.680 We'll finish out by saying one more thing about Votie.

00:59:26.420 Actually, we'll let him speak for himself.

00:59:28.040 But I've got one last sponsor, and that's Constitution Wealth.

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00:59:38.540 That's especially true when it comes to our money.

00:59:41.100 We want to make sure that we are supporting causes and supporting businesses that actually

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00:59:57.140 And it's so important to work with people who have our same principles and make things

01:00:01.340 a lot easier, especially if they're doing something as important as handling our money.

01:00:07.520 Many Christian investors just don't realize that their portfolios include companies that

01:00:13.060 are funding causes that directly contradict scripture.

01:00:15.680 But we want to be faithful stewards of God's resources.

01:00:18.100 And we have both the power and the responsibility to ensure our money supports businesses that honor

01:00:22.960 biblical principles.

01:00:24.600 I trust these guys.

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01:00:54.800 My opinions are my own.

01:01:01.880 So Votie was married to his wife, Bridget, since 1989.

01:01:06.760 Like I said, they have nine children.

01:01:09.400 Nine children together.

01:01:11.040 Seven of them are still in their home.

01:01:14.240 And she is still committed to home educating them.

01:01:18.720 And so Founders Ministries has set up a GoFundMe for their family to just be able to live in

01:01:24.280 dignity.

01:01:24.900 I mean, Votie was the provider for the family.

01:01:27.740 And with him gone, this is going to be really hard on Bridget, really hard on their kids.

01:01:32.260 He's got adult kids, but then he's got kids that are still pretty young.

01:01:35.320 And this is just really hard.

01:01:37.380 It's going to be really hard for them.

01:01:38.940 So if you can donate, if you can support in any way, whether it's small, whether it's

01:01:42.780 large, I know that's going to help her.

01:01:44.400 We are called to help widows and orphans.

01:01:47.700 We don't want to abandon them.

01:01:49.060 And we have such amazing technology today that through the body of Christ, it's actually

01:01:53.560 GiveSendGo.

01:01:54.260 I think I said GoFundMe.

01:01:55.300 It's GiveSendGo.

01:01:56.680 Through the body of Christ, we can do this for people not only in our communities, in our

01:02:01.180 congregations, but also around the world.

01:02:03.120 So if you can give, please do.

01:02:05.260 And I just want to play this clip of Votie talking about his death, Sot6.

01:02:11.240 You are going to hear a rumor one day that Votie Wackham is no more. 1.00

01:02:16.840 Don't you believe it?

01:02:18.760 Don't you believe it?

01:02:20.620 Don't you believe it?

01:02:22.200 Because though I die, I will rise with Christ.

01:02:26.180 It will not be the end of me because Christ is raised.

01:02:31.440 And I, too, will be raised with Christ.

01:02:35.980 That is why he is called the firstborn from the dead.

01:02:39.680 Folks, you don't talk about a firstborn unless there's others who are born after him.

01:02:44.480 Don't you pity me?

01:02:46.460 You pity the one who wants to hold on to Jesus without holding on to the resurrection.

01:02:51.500 You pity the one who has absolutely no hope because they have no resurrected Christ.

01:02:58.780 Ah, so good.

01:03:00.100 He was so good.

01:03:01.360 And I just hope, just like Charlie, that his message spreads further than it ever had before,

01:03:07.600 that people read more of his books, listen to more of his sermons, and that the gospel

01:03:14.340 would be spread even further in his death.

01:03:17.080 That's one thing that God does.

01:03:19.380 And I'm so sad for his family.

01:03:21.120 I'm sad for founders.

01:03:22.340 I'm sad for Tom Askell's church.

01:03:24.140 I'm sad for all of us who benefited so much from him.

01:03:27.800 So sad for his kids.

01:03:29.600 But I just know that God brings beauty out of ashes and that he's going to continue to

01:03:34.760 do that through the life and legacy of Odi Bakum.

01:03:37.840 And yet again, we look at a saint who has died and we say, I want to live like that.

01:03:43.840 And we should all hope that when we die, that the gospel will be spread further because of

01:03:49.320 the things we said and did on earth.

01:03:51.640 So that's a good lesson for all of us.

01:03:53.920 All right.

01:03:54.260 We'll be back here on Wednesday.

01:03:55.820 We'll be back here on Wednesday.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - September 29, 2025

Ep 1247 ｜ Three Men & a Baby： Polyamory Is Infiltrating Foster Care

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