On this episode of Relatable, Allie talks about the tragic death of Charlie Kirk and gives practical advice on how Christians can respond. Plus, Taylor Swift's hot take of the week. Share the Arrows is this Saturday, October 11th in Dallas, TX and tickets are on sale now!
00:00:00.860Lots of claims are being made about Charlie Kirk's murder, including that Israel was somehow involved and that the government has the wrong guy.
00:00:08.420We are going to explore those claims today, as well as discuss how Christians should discern what is true and what is not.
00:00:16.280And surprise, surprise, I've got a hot take about Taylor Swift at the end of this episode.
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00:05:02.100And I realize sometimes I'm the first person that they meet that actually knew Charlie.
00:05:06.380And so the emotions are just still so high.
00:05:10.100So in the midst of that, we are also talking about what actually happened to Charlie Kirk.
00:05:14.920And there are many theories surrounding it.
00:05:18.020And some of them I would call conspiracy theories.
00:05:21.040Some of it is legitimate investigation.
00:05:23.900Some of it is healthy question asking.
00:05:26.700And I will talk about how I think as Christians we distinguish between all of those things.
00:05:31.900And I do think it's okay to seek the truth about an investigation, about a crime like this, a tragedy like this, at the same time that you're mourning a person.
00:05:42.640But I do think we have to be careful how we do it.
00:05:45.700And so we've spent so much time doing everything we can to honor Charlie and to, in our very small way compared to him, carry that torch.
00:05:54.960But I do want to get into some fact versus fiction and just some questions I have about the theory circulating, about who was actually involved in Charlie's murder.
00:07:02.500I do think that this sub-claim one, under the claim that Israel is involved in this murder, I do think this sub-claim seems to be true.
00:07:10.580Charlie went on Patrick David's podcast shortly after October 7th, 2023.
00:07:16.240And Charlie asked some questions about how this attack could have happened if Israel is really as secure and intelligent as we know they are.
00:07:26.940And then he also made a comment about Israel potentially committing an ethnic cleansing in Gaza.
00:07:35.860Bibi and the Israeli hard-right government has a mandate.
00:07:40.920I've got to be careful the way I say this.
00:07:43.000Two, they're going to try to ethnically cleanse Gaza.
00:07:46.000I mean, that's – and I don't use that term lightly, okay?
00:07:50.140They're talking about basically removing 2.5 million people from there, okay?
00:07:54.740Okay, so this is not exactly the unconditionally positive portrayal of Israel that you see from some conservatives.
00:08:05.540Like, he had some what people would perceive as harsh words for the Israeli government at the time.
00:08:13.200Even though Charlie has a history of being extremely pro-Israel, of visiting Israel, he has partnered with Prager University for a long time.
00:08:23.380And really, no one ever questioned which side Charlie Kirk was on when it came to the Israel-Palestinian conflict or even the Judaism-Islam conflict.
00:08:33.160He has been a very outspoken critic of Islamic extremism for a very long time.
00:11:02.340And I'm sure there were maybe conversations about Israel, because I know Charlie was interested in hosting debates among these conservative commentators on Israel and the Palestinian conflict and how that is being handled.
00:11:16.900Ackman connected with Charlie via DM back in May, leading to a Zoom call on June 11th, where Kirk expressed concerns about young conservatives waning support for Israel.
00:11:27.660Then Ackman posted his private WhatsApp text between him and Kirk to demonstrate their friendly interaction.
00:11:36.160It looks like Bill Ackman said, how are you?
00:12:03.800OK, so they're talking about getting together at a certain point.
00:12:08.060And then Seth Dillon, CEO of the Babylon Bee, who was there in the Hamptons, he was also accused alongside of Ackman of pressuring Charlie in an intervention to get him to change his stance on Israel.
00:12:20.780And then Seth Dillon on X in a statement said, I did not organize or participate in any intervention with Charlie.
00:12:28.240He said that there he had no coercion, no threats, that he didn't pressure him in any way.
00:12:35.120And that he didn't notice any kind of anger going on here.
00:12:40.440Charlie's producer, Andrew Colvett, you were probably already familiar with Andrew.
00:12:46.760But if you watched my co-hosting of Charlie's show, then you saw him there, who is kind of taking the lead right now on Charlie's podcast.
00:12:57.040He issued a response after consulting Turning Point staff who attended this August 4th through 5th retreat in the Hamptons.
00:13:06.440Andrew said, I have been asked about the Bill Ackman event more than a few times now.
00:13:11.040So I asked our staff who were traveling with Charlie at that time to find out what's true.
00:13:16.420His team was with him 100 percent of the time when he wasn't in his hotel room.
00:14:42.560I just had a very clean bill of health from my doctor after a very thorough blood panel.
00:14:49.260All of my nutrient levels are really good.
00:14:53.320And I honestly credit that to We Heart Nutrition because all of their ingredients in each of their supplements is in the most bioavailable form.
00:16:40.180I don't think that's totally true that she was lying about that.
00:16:43.880I think that it is true that there were parts of that letter that Bibi Netanyahu didn't read.
00:16:49.500But at the same time, I don't know that him not reading the critical parts of Charlie's letter was a malicious omission.
00:16:58.160It probably just wasn't appropriate on Fox News right after Charlie had died to read all of Charlie's criticism of Israel's messaging.
00:17:07.680So, yes, it is true what Candace said, that the entirety of the letter was not just praising Israel unconditionally.
00:17:16.240But Bibi Netanyahu is also right that Charlie wrote that and that Charlie was a supporter of Israel in general and the Judeo-Christian alliance in general.
00:18:32.880And what you are doing to communicate the virtue of y'all's fight against Hamas,
00:18:39.460it shouldn't rely on American influencers.
00:18:42.000And it seemed to me that Charlie was frustrated that he was always having to try to figure out a way to defend everything Israel was doing
00:18:51.500and that Israel wasn't doing their part in helping American media and American conservatives like get the truth out there.
00:19:01.040And so this was a very nuanced, a very layered letter to Bibi Netanyahu that I think showed genuinely who Charlie was and how he really felt.
00:19:13.500I don't think there's any question that he was very pro-Israel, that he really believed in a Judeo-Christian alliance
00:19:22.200and that he cared about the Holy Land and that he wanted Israel to succeed against Hamas and that he saw Islamism as a huge threat to Western civilization
00:19:32.000and that he didn't buy into conspiracy theories about Judaism taking over different parts of power in the United States and undermining America.
00:19:42.280He didn't believe in that from what I can see.
00:19:45.040I don't have any secret conversations or secret information about Charlie to tell you one way or the other.
00:19:49.720But it seems obvious to me from what he said publicly and what he said here to Benjamin, to Bibi Netanyahu.
00:19:58.300So a lot of people are also saying, I've seen out there, that, oh, this letter wasn't really from Charlie,
00:21:07.240Like, Israel relies on American conservatives to be their publicist, basically, in a lot of ways in the West.
00:21:17.080And Charlie was one of the leading pro-Israel voices and very influential in the Trump administration.
00:21:26.120So, yes, he had that much influence on Bibi Netanyahu.
00:21:31.980And so I think that the letter is completely real.
00:21:35.120I don't think that we have any reason to doubt its validity.
00:21:38.900And then we also have subclaim five, which, honestly, we're not even going to get totally into because I'm still trying to figure out, like, what is the claim here?
00:21:47.600The claim is that Turning Point is losing money.
00:21:50.160And I think that the assumption is that it had something to do with Israel.
00:21:58.280And maybe we'll have to come back and we'll have to really, like, get into what the truth is about this and the allegation that they were losing money mysteriously and that Charlie wanted to lead some kind of like doge effort to make sure that they weren't losing money in some kind of, you know, nefarious way.
00:22:19.580And then Tyler Boyer, who is the COO of Turning Point Action, he said that they're not losing money, that it's not true.
00:22:31.860And so, yeah, there's a lot of there's a lot of back and forth there.
00:22:35.140And I don't have any insider information to offer you on that one, but all of these points are supposed to come together and we're supposed to at least be squinting our eyes at Israel and saying, OK, if all of these things are true or at least partially true, somewhat true, then maybe Israel is involved.
00:22:55.760And here are some things that I think we need to think about before taking this leap and some questions that I think we need to ask, not only when it comes to this claim, but really when it comes to any claim.
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00:24:12.160Okay, here's how conspiracy theories work, okay?
00:24:22.300Because conspiracy theories are different than critical thinking and question asking.
00:24:27.860And innuendo is different than investigation.
00:24:30.500And implication is different than investigation.
00:24:33.560And I'm not even pointing fingers right now.
00:24:36.200I've seen a lot of different Instagram posts, a lot of different X posts from a lot of different people, some that are asking good questions and some that are just spinning up suspicion.
00:24:48.980And again, those two things aren't the same.
00:24:50.920So this is what you need to look for when it comes to any claim.
00:24:54.200If it's a claim that I make, if it's a claim that someone else makes, especially when someone is creating a series out of multiple claims, okay?
00:25:01.900So this is how conspiracy theories work.
00:25:04.380One, you exploit distrust or gaps of information.
00:25:08.440So in this case, we don't trust the government.
00:25:11.060We have good reason not to trust the government.
00:25:13.140There have been things that the government has said that are kind of sketchy, like text exchange, that the government claimed was between the shooter and the partner.
00:25:22.340A lot of people said that it seemed fake, although I think that there are some questions about that.
00:25:28.940Two, exploit pre-existing suspicions or resentment.
00:25:32.480So in this case, the people claiming that Israel was involved in this, like already didn't like Israel.
00:25:42.740Like it would be a lot more credible to me if the people pursuing this theory didn't already blame Israel for other things.
00:25:50.760Like if they were blaming Germany for this, I'd be like, oh, that's interesting because I don't see any like vested interest in accusing this particular country.
00:25:59.800Or if people who like never criticized Israel in the past were like, yeah, I really think Israel is a part of this.
00:26:06.400And that might be a little bit more intriguing.
00:26:08.280But it just seems a little bit too on the nose and coincidental that Israel would be involved in a crime.
00:26:14.360And it's being found out by people who are already super critical of Israel.
00:26:19.040Another characteristic is giving partial truths.
00:26:21.700So like there there are some truths that are in this claim as we already as we already validated.
00:26:31.060Netanyahu didn't say everything was in that letter.
00:26:33.480Charlie did exchange words with Bill Ackman.
00:26:35.920Charlie was concerned with Israel's direction.
00:26:40.800But then there's also this aspect, giving full truths, but making it seem like they're tied together with a secret sauce of special knowledge without ever actually providing the receipts and the evidence to prove those connections.
00:26:56.080So this happened, this exists, and these two things are connected because we should be asking how, why?
00:27:05.320So we should be asking what do those two things have in common?
00:27:21.760I need to be told explicitly because if we're making claims about who is involved in Charlie's murder, like I need the tangible evidence of those connections.
00:27:32.660It's not enough to just tell me that some things happened and some things exist.
00:27:37.060Also, as I said, innuendo is not investigation.
00:27:43.160So if someone knows something, if they have insider information, then they need to release it to the public.
00:28:15.900Gosh, I really want to know what is the truth.
00:28:17.860So here are my specific questions when it comes to this Israel claim.
00:28:22.460Why would Israel, whose existence is largely dependent upon the support of the U.S., take out one of the most vocal supporters of Israel and Judaism?
00:28:30.680Why would they target a confidant of one of the most pro-Israel presidents of all time?
00:28:35.660Would Israel really risk the further alienation of the American right, literally some of its only lasting supporters in the world, by taking out one of our biggest heroes?
00:28:44.340And would they do it in a way that Internet sleuths can figure out?
00:28:50.160Because it's either Israel is very stupid or they're extremely cunning and conniving, but I don't understand how they can be both.
00:28:57.440And I've gone back and forth with some people in my DMs about this.
00:29:00.040One person said, oh, well, look at this.
00:29:02.300Look at how much Israel lobbies in our government.
00:29:05.520Like, look at how much they're trying to influence the media.
00:29:07.940Look at how many times they're, you know, meeting with commentators, how they were talking to Charlie Kirk and trying to influence what he thinks.
00:29:14.340OK, but even if that's true and even if you have a problem with that, what does that have to do with this?
00:29:20.460Because, you know, how many countries and how many corporations do that?
00:29:26.860Like, do you know how many of these entities are trying to influence American media?
00:29:35.800China, Russia are two of the main ones.
00:30:54.540So O'Neill initially calls the 170-yard shot with a .30-odd-6 rifle easy for a sniper or hunter, but later questions why an untrained 22-year-old would take a neck shot, saying,
00:31:08.660you don't take a neck shot because you missed.
00:31:11.100He implies that precision hitting Kirk's neck is suspicious for an amateur, suggesting possible training or an alternative explanation.
00:31:19.580He says that the shot distance is within range for a hunting rifle with a scope.
00:31:24.840His sniper experience, Rob O'Neill suggests, neck shots are accidental, not intentional for non-professionals.
00:31:35.360Okay, so he just doesn't think it adds up there.
00:32:21.060It's also possible that he was aiming for the head and that he jerked the gun and that he actually missed.
00:32:27.580That he didn't actually mean to hit him in the neck.
00:32:30.320And if he had practiced this, if he had done a lot of target practicing, which it does seem like that was something that was very much a part of his upbringing, it seems that it's totally possible.
00:32:40.860And so he just doesn't think it seems like Robbie Neal just doesn't think that this guy could have done it on his own and that this was something that was maybe a little bit more professional.
00:32:52.400Subclaim two, people are saying that the wound appearance of Charlie and the shirt movement just doesn't fit with this guy being on a roof 175 yards away.
00:33:02.860So O'Neill disputes that the official narrative that the visible wound was an entry wound.
00:33:07.780He disputes that, claiming it looked like an exit wound based on his own combat experience.
00:33:12.940He says an entry wound doesn't look like that.
00:33:16.220He says video footage showing the neck wound and shirt movement just don't line up.
00:33:22.460He disputes the assertion that Kirk wasn't wearing body armor.
00:33:26.300He said bullets don't deflect that way.
00:33:28.640But we do know from Andrew Colvitt that he was not wearing body armor that that day.
00:33:36.380And Andrew Colvitt said on September 20th in an ex post, he said that he wants to address some of the discussion about the lack of an exit wound.
00:33:46.880He said, I just spoke with a surgeon who worked on Charlie in the hospital.
00:33:49.720He said the bullet absolutely should have gone through, which is very normal for a high powered, high velocity, high velocity round.
00:33:56.700I've seen wounds from this caliber many times and they always just go through everything.
00:34:01.880This would have taken a moose or two down, an elk, etc.
00:37:12.360So Charlie's security team, as Turning Point has said over and over again, as I have experienced, because I've spoken at so many Turning Point events over the years, they are top notch.
00:37:22.900I've been to a lot of events with different levels of security.
00:37:26.300And I can tell you not every organization and not every event has the kind of security that Turning Point does.
00:37:34.160Every time I was at a Turning Point event, I would have one or two security guards with me at all times, from the moment I left my hotel room to on stage to walking around, no matter what, until I got into my car and I got on my way to the airport, I was covered by a security guard.
00:37:59.000And again, I've seen all different levels, and they were always my favorite because I just knew that I was cared for.
00:38:06.520They weren't going to mess around, and you could tell that they were always assessing every threat.
00:38:10.880And man, that was times 100 for Charlie, which was their principal, the guy that they loved, the guy that they knew.
00:38:17.400If they were doing that for me, a random person, I'm telling you, they were on top of security for Charlie.
00:38:23.420Now, what happened in this case, according to Tyler Boyer, who, again, is the head of Turning Point Action, has been with Turning Point from the beginning, is that it was not a failure of Turning Point Security, who did everything that they possibly could to secure it.
00:38:40.320And actually, the city where this happened had their own drone program.
00:38:45.120But unfortunately, the drone was, the drone idea, I should say, the drone proposal was shot down by the campus, not literally shot down.
00:38:54.920But they said, no, you can't use drones.
00:38:57.980Tyler Boyer said on X, we have our own drone program shot down by campus police.
00:39:03.200Orem Police has a state-of-the-art program.
00:39:05.640The question I have is why the campus police didn't use it.
00:39:10.020According to ABC News, Utah Valley University's outdoor courtyard, where Kirk showed up on September 10th to debate students, was surrounded by several tall buildings, leaving Kirk vulnerable.
00:39:19.200That was made all the more potent because campus police didn't fly a drone to monitor rooftops or coordinate with local law enforcement to secure the event.
00:39:28.380It deployed only six officers from a force that was already small for a campus its size.
00:39:32.460There were no bag checks or metal detectors.
00:39:35.240So, obviously, like, there are a lot of things, a lot of steps that could have been taken.
00:39:40.140They could have said, no, no outside events after Butler, Pennsylvania.
00:39:43.600They could have said, no, you're not allowing anyone into this area until they go through a metal detector.
00:39:50.920The drone probably could have saved Charlie Kirk's life.
00:40:04.860Maybe some, you know, security, the local police, campus police, whatever, maybe they just didn't think that it was that it was that big of a threat.
00:40:15.400They said that they didn't see any credible threats.
00:40:17.920Obviously, they were wrong about that.
00:40:20.080And that is part of why we are where we are today.
00:41:23.920But the truth is, you can see in this picture right here, we've got this full screen.
00:41:29.300The scene of the crime was roped off while the authorities were investigating it.
00:41:33.360This picture is from September 11th that you're seeing the day after the murder.
00:41:37.280And so they probably got everything that they needed.
00:41:41.300And they probably told the campus, hey, you can't do anything.
00:41:44.360You can't reconstruct anything here until we do what we need to do.
00:41:50.040And so I have no reason to believe that they were covering up any evidence or that there was anything nefarious going on there.
00:41:58.000I mean, at this point, it's been a while since Charlie was murdered.
00:42:02.460And I assume that federal authorities have gotten everything that they needed because, remember, the gun and where the guy was actually on the roof, that was not where they are reconstructing.
00:42:16.120They, I'm sure, already got everything they needed from where Charlie was actually shot.
00:42:21.800And then there's another claim here, and this is our last claim for this segment, that there was overly convenient evidence left by the suspect.
00:42:31.320There was a note left under the suspect's keyboard photographed by his romantic partner saying, I had the opportunity to take out Charlie Kirk and I'm going to take it.
00:42:40.120The text exchanged with his partner post-shooting where Robinson allegedly confessed, said he had enough of Kirk's hatred and that he had been planning the attack over a week.
00:42:52.780He also used some words like vehicle, which people claimed, OK, no, no, you know, 20-year-old talks like this.
00:43:16.800I didn't think that it sounded like a 20-something would text something like this and that the, like, trans person on the other side was so innocent and so, like, oh, my goodness, what do you, I thought it was, I did think it was weird.
00:43:31.060But then I thought, I saw a video going around, and actually I'll play it, and it's of this suspect calling a car a vehicle.
00:43:41.880And then I thought, you know what, he kind of talks like this.
00:44:12.200But even if it is the feds, like, even if these texts are fake, I still think that this is the guy.
00:44:23.860I think that we have sufficient evidence, sufficient photographs, sufficient evidence of his discord and Reddit history to say, yeah, this guy, he didn't like Charlie Kirk.
00:44:39.620And he was a radical, and he had been radicalized.
00:44:42.600And probably living with the so-called trans person was radicalizing.
00:45:52.020The weight of her guilt was so crushing.
00:45:54.500She even thought of just ending her own life.
00:45:56.780She had just ended the life of her child, and she didn't want to live anymore.
00:46:01.500But by God's grace, instead of just staying alone and desperate, she reached out for help.
00:46:06.840And that search led her to a preborn network clinic where truth broke through.
00:46:12.280There, the loving staff gave her immediate care, gave her the abortion reversal pill, helped save not only her baby's life, but her own.
00:46:21.260So we have to remember that in a culture that is drowning in deceit, that truth can save lives.
00:46:27.060That true clarity, that true courage, that love, that grace, that understanding, but a relentless commitment to life can actually save lives.
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