Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1252 ｜ Sage Steele on Her New Faith Journey & Finding Her Husband

00:00:00.740 Sage Steele was suspended by ESPN in 2021 for speaking out against forced vaccines.

00:00:08.320 Her journey since then of love, of faith, of bravery is so incredible and multilayered.

00:00:16.460 We are going to be talking about all of that today, including her recent wedding to her new husband,

00:00:21.920 her relationship with her parents and her kids, her journey of faith, and then also those really

00:00:30.220 dark, difficult moments just a few years ago when she thought she wasn't going to be able to go on,

00:00:36.860 when she put everything on the line for the truth. You are going to be so encouraged by this

00:00:42.700 incredible conversation. It's brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to goodranchers.com,

00:00:47.120 use code Allie at checkout. That's goodranchers.com, code Allie.

00:00:51.920 Before we get into that conversation, tomorrow is Share the Arrows and you can still get your

00:01:05.740 ticket. We still have a few tickets left. Y'all, last minute is totally okay. Come by yourself,

00:01:12.020 come with a friend. This is going to be an amazing day of biblical teaching and worship. You will be

00:01:17.500 reminded that you're not alone and you will walk out of there with zero fear of man. Maybe this is

00:01:22.860 a launchpad for you into a new era of courage for the gospel, whether you are a stay-at-home mom,

00:01:28.540 whether you are an employee, a student, a grandmother, no matter what stage of life you are in,

00:01:33.920 if you are a woman, Share the Arrows is for you. Go to sharethearrows.com. You can use code

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00:01:46.380 is brought to you by our friends at Carly Jean Los Angeles. I will see you there tomorrow.

00:01:51.380 All right. Without further ado, here is Sage Steele.

00:01:58.880 Sage, thanks so much for taking the time to join us. I'm so glad to finally have you here.

00:02:03.220 We've been trying to do this for a long time. So thank you for welcoming me.

00:02:07.500 If it finally worked out for you to be in studio. Okay. You're a newlywed.

00:02:11.340 I am.

00:02:12.160 You've been married for four and a half weeks.

00:02:15.040 Okay. Tell me about newlywed life, please. Everything.

00:02:18.000 You know what? It's just such a blessing because I didn't know if I'd get

00:02:21.620 a second chance at love, to be honest with you. And gosh, forgiving myself and the situation for,

00:02:30.180 you know, choosing to get a divorce in the first place. Never the plan,

00:02:33.360 never the dream, never the desire. So, um, it's just such a blessing. And I think our

00:02:38.300 stories are a little similar. It just happened to you a lot longer, a lot earlier in life than

00:02:42.780 me, but I was 51. I'm 52, almost 53 now when we met. And it was literally, you know, like I knew

00:02:49.200 that night. I knew it. Okay. Tell me, no, you got to go into detail. How did you meet him?

00:02:53.160 I guess I never told you.

00:02:54.520 You saw him and was it kind of like love at first sight or you're just like, oh,

00:02:58.820 that guy's handsome. When did you know? I knew about, I knew about at the end of the evening

00:03:05.720 that we met and it was November 12th, 2024 in Nashville, Tennessee. I was at a charity event

00:03:13.720 for veterans. I had gone with a friend who, whose husband couldn't come. So I was everybody's

00:03:18.600 favorite plus one at that point. I'm like, yes, I'll be your plus one. I don't have a life or a

00:03:22.580 date. I'll go. I just sent my youngest off to college. So I was, you know, lonely and just happy

00:03:28.000 to go keep myself really busy and went to this charity, especially because my, my dad's a vet

00:03:33.480 and I grew up in army life and we're at the cocktail hour. I'm just waiting for the dinner

00:03:38.920 to start. It's called Tomahawk Charities and it's wonderful if anybody's wondering. And he

00:03:44.140 walks up to me, he's like, hi, my name is Dave and we have something in common. And I'm thinking,

00:03:49.000 I roll what cheesy line is this one going to give me, you know? And he said, our mothers,

00:03:58.000 have known each other for more than 30 years. And our dads were stationed together at Fort Leavenworth,

00:04:04.380 Kansas, army officers back in the early nineties. And our mothers volunteered at a convent for

00:04:10.200 retired nuns in Leavenworth, Kansas in like 1993. And have stayed in touch despite moving across the

00:04:16.400 country since 93. And you didn't know him at all? Never knew. I'm three years older, full disclosure.

00:04:23.780 And so I was in college when he was in high school in Kansas and I didn't live, live in Kansas because

00:04:28.880 of that. So we'd never met. But when I asked, when he said the story, I mean, I, I, I knew about the

00:04:35.020 convent and the nuns. I mean, they were a major part of our family's life. One nun in particular,

00:04:39.820 Sister Charles Marie. And so I was like, what's your last name? And he told me and I'm like, oh,

00:04:44.880 I know of your mother and the family. And so then the dinner started and I'm looking around because

00:04:51.680 he's tall and handsome. Yes. And I'm like, who, where is he? He was cute. Let me, let me make sure

00:04:57.020 that put the lights up and make sure I still think he's cute. Um, and later that night there was like

00:05:02.220 a, you know, a little post party downtown Nashville with this, this charity. And he said he was going to

00:05:08.300 show up. I'm the one that asked him. I was like, so are you going to the post party? And he said,

00:05:11.540 yep. He says, well, I am now after I asked. So we, we started chatting and Allie, it was

00:05:18.800 two to three hours straight. It was like, no one else was in the room. It literally is so cheesy,

00:05:26.360 but like no one else is in the room. And, um, it hit me about halfway through and something at like

00:05:32.380 the butterflies hit and we had a lot in common and, you know, some tough conversations about

00:05:37.120 both of our divorces. I have three kids. He has two kids. Uh, the effects of that,

00:05:41.260 um, the disappointment in ourselves and just the, the, the difficulty that that is.

00:05:45.820 And we bonded over that. And obviously the military, like he's a, he's a former,

00:05:50.440 former army officer as well. He served a tour in Iraq and it just hit me and I had to excuse myself.

00:05:57.620 I was like, I'll be right back. And I took this deep breath and I came back over and he was in the

00:06:04.080 restroom and my girlfriend who brought me there, she looked at me and she's like, you're going to

00:06:10.200 marry him. Don't screw it up. And I, yeah. And I looked, I was like, I know. Wow. The first night.

00:06:18.380 Yeah. And, um, I don't know that it was as immediate for him, but close. And, um, I went home

00:06:25.840 to the hotel and the next morning I woke up to my mom calling me and she said, did you meet

00:06:31.000 Dave Barbudo? And I said, yeah, what the heck? How do you know? She said, his mom called me. So he

00:06:39.240 texted his mom. His mom texted my mom. My mom texted me. And that was November 12th. And we got

00:06:45.600 engaged on April 12th and we got married on September 5th. Oh my goodness. And is it fast?

00:06:51.220 Yes. Was I afraid of judgment at times from friends, family, strangers? Yes, I was. And

00:07:00.860 then it's like, who cares? Like, I know this is my person for many reasons beyond his charm and good

00:07:08.320 looks. It was so much deeper than that immediately. So it's been very emotional. It hasn't even been a

00:07:14.120 year. Very emotional because, um, I didn't know it would ever happen again. And when you know, you

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00:08:24.340 code Allie. And so tell me what it was like going into a dating relationship. I think it was five years

00:08:36.340 after you got a divorce. You'll both have grown kids. It's different than dating the first time

00:08:42.120 around when you're in your twenties or whatever. Obviously you're not messing around. You're not

00:08:47.160 just trying to see what's out there. It's a lot more serious, both because of how you are feeling,

00:08:52.760 but also because of your life situation. So what was it like when y'all first started dating those

00:08:58.480 conversations to determine, okay, is this person really the one that I want to spend the rest of my

00:09:03.840 life with? Some very deep conversations that were immediate. And I loved that. He lived in Tennessee.

00:09:11.360 I lived in Florida. So it was all on the phone. And I actually am so grateful for that because

00:09:16.800 there's nothing else that gets in the way. Nervousness to go out to dinner. What do I wear?

00:09:23.920 You know, any physical tension or whatever where you're like, okay, it was just conversation. And the

00:09:31.340 first conversation we had was 48 hours after we met. And I was driving from South Florida up to North

00:09:36.740 Florida to visit my parents. And it was five hours in the car. And we were texting. I was voice texting,

00:09:44.680 okay, mom, not texting while driving. I was voice texting while driving. And then it was like,

00:09:49.520 isn't it easier if we just talk? And so for the final four hours of that five hour drive,

00:09:53.520 we went everywhere and talked about everything. And it was so easy. And I actually didn't want that

00:09:59.440 long drive to end because of it. And so conversation is everything. And I hadn't dated much at all,

00:10:07.120 yeah, in those five years. And I actually had married my first boyfriend. So when I was 20 is when I met

00:10:16.460 my ex-husband and married at 26, 27 and married until 47. So I literally did not know how to date.

00:10:24.840 The one guy I dated in between divorce and meeting Dave, I remember when I was texting him back

00:10:31.460 something. I was sitting next to my daughter at the time. She was probably 20. She's 23 now.

00:10:35.580 And she looked at me. She's like, is that what you're texting him? And I was like, well, yeah. She's

00:10:40.920 like, oh, give me that. So she took the phone and she rewrote it. And then she goes, now wait an hour.

00:10:46.220 And she put it down. And I'm like, I don't, I don't know this world. I don't know how to date.

00:10:51.720 I've never dated. And I don't like this world. The games. The games. And I'm too old for this.

00:10:58.520 Like, what are we doing? So the conversations were really beautiful from the beginning. And because I

00:11:05.560 was, you know, so much older, I just thought, what the heck? Like, let's not hold back and just be

00:11:13.240 super honest. And if he likes me, great. And if he doesn't, then he wasn't meant to be. And we went

00:11:18.300 deep really, really, really fast. And I do want to share this, though, because I've just started to

00:11:24.100 share this a couple times publicly. But there was a real turning point in that journey where you say,

00:11:34.000 OK, I'm single. Fine. I'll go on a date here or there if someone sets me up or whatever. And so I

00:11:38.700 was saying yes. And then I went on a really awful date on New Year's Eve, 23 going into 24.

00:11:47.080 Like, I knew it going in. It's so stupid. And I was, I live at the beach in Florida. And I did my 1.00

00:11:53.580 normal beach walk. And when I came back, I was in full workout clothes. And I just walked into the

00:12:00.560 Atlantic Ocean. People watching probably like, keep an eye on this one. She looks like she's what's going 0.81

00:12:06.500 on. What is she doing? She can't walk on water. What is this? And yeah, full workout clothes. And 1.00

00:12:11.660 I just walked out there and I just started praying. And I literally like opened my arms, which

00:12:17.500 Catholics, we don't do, right? You just do this. And I just was like, Lord, I just felt so dumb and 1.00

00:12:23.900 defeated for having wasted my time, even though it wasn't, it's never a waste of time. And I said,

00:12:28.760 Lord, please don't bring me anybody until you bring me somebody and make it really obvious because 1.00

00:12:35.140 I'm kind of an idiot. And that was January 1st, 2024. When I say it was like silence until 0.96

00:12:45.680 November 12th, nothing.

00:12:48.020 Wow. Praise God.

00:12:48.860 And yeah, at that moment, when I look back, everything changed. It took nine, 10 months to

00:12:57.960 meet Dave, but everything in my life changed because I believe now. It was really the first

00:13:03.900 time I gave up control and let go and just let God. And it's such a, you know, cliche and saying,

00:13:10.720 let go, let God. Well, I finally did at 51 and look what happened. So it was also, I think that's

00:13:19.680 why the conversations just flowed and I didn't hold anything back. And when he asked me one night on one

00:13:26.180 of our marathon phone call sessions, what was really important to me, um, what are the qualities

00:13:32.840 I need in a man and a relationship? And the first thing I said was someone to walk this faith journey

00:13:39.140 with me because I didn't want to do it alone and I needed help. I wanted a partner to discuss these

00:13:44.220 things with and, and ask questions and come up with answers on our own and fail and get back up.

00:13:49.180 And, and I knew when I said it, it was going to be a game changer because if he wasn't into that,

00:13:55.220 then I finally knew I wasn't going to settle. Not that I had settled before in my first marriage.

00:14:01.100 I just wasn't there yet. It wasn't as much of a priority that it needed to be. I thought it was,

00:14:06.560 but in hindsight it wasn't. Um, and maybe things would have been different had it been,

00:14:10.360 but it wasn't meant to be for whatever reason. And when I said faith number one,

00:14:18.060 he kind of chuckled because it was for him too. And I think, oh my gosh, what if I hadn't said that?

00:14:24.680 Like there's just been so many blessings that have come from this.

00:14:27.240 Yeah. From being totally honest. Totally. And you were still in that moment surrendering.

00:14:33.340 You still weren't in control and you were acting out of a place of surrender that, okay,

00:14:38.080 this is what I believe. This is what I hold dear. And this is going to be make or break.

00:14:44.020 Yeah. And if it's break, it's okay. It's going to be hard, but it's okay. And that's like a very

00:14:49.120 freeing place to be, but a hard place to get to for those of us who really like to try to control

00:14:54.960 the outcomes. And I don't believe I was ever a control freak. Maybe early on as a mom,

00:15:00.840 a very young mom and trying to be the perfect everything and you fail at trying to, you know,

00:15:06.400 have perfection as your goal. Um, but I, I, I can't believe what has happened since I completely

00:15:16.680 let go. But I think when you do try to control that part, the relationship part, I was trying

00:15:22.860 to protect myself. Yeah.

00:15:24.900 I was protecting myself from getting hurt again. Um, and that was me putting myself in situations

00:15:31.400 to get hurt. Right. Right. As well as any, um, man or woman who's been divorced is you're

00:15:40.520 going to protect yourself because you're afraid, Oh my gosh, I don't want to make this mistake

00:15:43.760 again. And especially when you have children. So I think I was very closed off in many ways

00:15:48.640 in order to protect. And I remember my body language at times where I, I can look back and

00:15:56.640 I physically felt myself doing this and tightening up. And it's like, wow, when you can take a step

00:16:02.160 outside of yourself and that bird's eye view and you, you watch yourself do that, like fetal

00:16:06.020 position almost, it's so sad. It's so scary. Um, so I know now that that's why I wasn't ever fully,

00:16:12.180 um, letting go.

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00:17:34.140 So the faith journey, most important for both of you, what is that faith journey that you're on right

00:17:39.460 now? Reminding myself, first of all, that it is a journey and that I will never have it all figured

00:17:47.340 out. I was raised Catholic and always like really proud Catholic, you know, and I am proud of my

00:17:56.080 upbringing because it was beautiful in every way. And we went to mass every Sunday and CCD and Sunday

00:18:03.760 school and all the sacraments. But I, listen, I mean, I still consider myself Catholic, but I am

00:18:14.380 figuring out so much more and asking questions about things that I think are missing from Catholicism

00:18:21.980 for so many of us. I guess I can just speak for myself and for my husband, where we both are like,

00:18:27.760 gosh, we were never really encouraged to dig deep in the Bible. So I didn't realize that as much until

00:18:37.520 the last few years when I, you know, have stepped away from my previous life and career as a sports

00:18:43.220 caster and just focusing on, yes, God and going to church, but okay, I have this. But, you know,

00:18:49.380 the decision, frankly, to get divorced was a huge journey in my faith, which might sound weird to

00:18:58.140 some, but it was. I felt like I asked for signs and I got permission, very clear from God. And then

00:19:05.820 the decision to stand up for myself at work when I worked at ESPN and Disney involved a lot of prayer.

00:19:12.160 Um, and every time I relied on God, he gave me really clear answers. And so the journey is that,

00:19:20.960 wow, Sage, you dummy. If you just give it up and ask for guidance, you really get it. I have gotten it.

00:19:29.180 Um, and so it's just continued to build and build and build. And today, um, you know, Dave and I did not

00:19:37.320 get married in the Catholic church because we're not allowed to, if you're divorced and choose not

00:19:44.460 to annul your marriage, you're not allowed to go back and get married in the Catholic church.

00:19:49.800 And, um, I don't know all the meaning behind that, but I disagree with it. Um, because even though it

00:19:57.200 did not last, um, there were beautiful times and moments. And I have three awesome kids that we

00:20:03.800 created and to annul it by saying that that means it didn't exist. It didn't happen.

00:20:10.300 It happened. I would never deny that. Why would I? I had 20 lovely years with this man that produced

00:20:16.720 my babies. And so to cast it off, like it didn't exist. I, I, I don't care to know more about it

00:20:24.080 because I moved on from it, but that's why I didn't get married in the Catholic church.

00:20:28.040 And, um, so we did a, you know, non-denominational ceremony, um, and incorporated, um, scripture

00:20:36.820 and prayer into it with, um, the officiant who's a dear friend of mine, Chris Harrison,

00:20:41.860 who said how much it honored him that he finally has a bride and groom who want to include that

00:20:49.180 in their non-denominational ceremony. Like how crazy is that? Right. Um, so every day we start,

00:20:57.140 um, whether we're in the same state or not, we really are working very hard to be while he has

00:21:02.080 kids in Tennessee and I have kids in three different States and college. Um, and, and the

00:21:07.640 workforce now with, um, our daily reading and it starts with a scripture and then is, you know,

00:21:15.040 um, a story and a description and ends with a prayer at the end. And it's like, okay, we do it. And we,

00:21:20.080 one of us reads it to the other and we break it down. And what does it mean? And how can we apply it?

00:21:24.420 How could we have applied it better yesterday or whatever day and going forward? And there's

00:21:29.560 some accountability with that. And I know that I need that. I need the accountability. I need the

00:21:34.380 partner. Um, and someone to say, Hey, I know that we're really busy today and you have a zoom in 15

00:21:42.940 minutes that you committed to, but we need to do this. Um, and I do the same for him. So there's just,

00:21:48.340 I don't know. It was such a private journey for me before. And I hate that. So now maybe I'm trying

00:21:55.720 to make up for lost time. Um, and knowing that God's been here the whole time and he's ready

00:22:01.080 with open arms and that, that, that is exciting. Yeah. And I'm excited for you because I love the

00:22:08.900 Bible. And I know that like when you start reading scripture and maybe you don't feel like this,

00:22:14.580 but I felt like this, and I've heard a lot of people say this, that it can feel intimidating

00:22:18.280 because you feel like, okay, well, I've been a Christian or I've been a Catholic my whole life.

00:22:22.720 I shouldn't, I should know this. But I mean, even theologians who have been studying the Bible

00:22:26.880 their whole life still come across passages that they're like, gosh, that's hard to understand.

00:22:31.580 And that's why I love so many resources. Like I use a study Bible that has notes for, okay,

00:22:36.920 this is where he's located. This is what he's looking at. This is what he's talking about. This is

00:22:42.440 what the word originally means in the Greek. And I'm not saying you have to have all that or know

00:22:46.360 all of that for anyone out there, but it helps. And the Bible is so rich with meaning and gives so

00:22:52.920 much clarity and so much understanding and so much grounding that when everything seems to change,

00:22:59.020 you can go back to the word of God for clarity. And so like, I'm excited for you to like be on this

00:23:05.920 journey and reading scripture because there's so much to know and so much to understand. And it

00:23:11.780 increases your love for God. The more you read the Bible, the more you love God.

00:23:15.980 But I think that's why I ran away from it because it's overwhelming because it's so big and there's

00:23:20.160 so much to know and so much to understand. And sometimes it's just, it's not easy reading.

00:23:26.980 I think it depends on, right. And I'm like, okay, I have enough trouble with, you know,

00:23:32.500 reading normal.

00:23:33.420 A regular book.

00:23:33.960 Yes.

00:23:34.420 Yes. And quite often I do audio for that reason, because I can also multitask or it's on my beach

00:23:40.640 walk or whatever. I know that I need what you gave me. I know that I need to see it and

00:23:49.700 see it four times, like really absorb it and probably have six highlight colors and have

00:23:54.720 a system with that. And I'm realizing it's like that that's okay, whatever it needs. But

00:24:00.860 I think it's just been so overwhelming since the realization that I need it in the last few

00:24:07.320 years. And then you have, I have great excuses because life has taken over and moving and

00:24:14.220 changing my life completely and becoming an empty nester. And this, you know, the end of

00:24:18.900 one career and the beginning of another that I had no idea.

00:24:21.380 Like you've had so much change in the past couple of years.

00:24:23.780 But it's not an excuse, you know, it is a reason and it's my reason, but it's not an

00:24:28.700 excuse. And so here we go. And the fact that I don't have to do it alone is really exciting.

00:24:34.380 Yes. And one thing, and you're already doing this, which is great, but I remember someone

00:24:38.660 telling me this, like, okay, so when I was in college and then after college, you don't

00:24:43.240 realize that you are so not busy. Like you think that you're busy, but I'm thinking about

00:24:47.960 how much I slept in and I would wake up at like nine and then I would have my personal

00:24:52.420 quiet time until like 10, 30, 11, go to class. And I just had so much time and I kind of thought

00:24:59.000 that that's what a quiet time with God always has to look like. That I always have to sit

00:25:03.240 there with my journal, with my Bible for two hours and dissect everything. But then I became

00:25:09.540 a mom and I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm so tired. I have so much going on. And so there've been

00:25:15.160 seasons of life where I just haven't been reading the Bible until I thought of it like eating.

00:25:20.220 And when you're busy, you don't skip a meal or just not eat that day. You find a way

00:25:25.500 to do it. Even if it's just a protein bar, even if it's on the go, if you are feasting

00:25:31.180 on the Bible, that means you take what you can get, how you can get it. So even though

00:25:36.240 I too prefer to be sitting down highlighting and journaling and all of that, like if like

00:25:41.740 this morning on the way in, we listen to Hebrews one in our Bible app and it like read it for

00:25:48.720 us. And maybe I'll have more time to read the Bible today, but maybe I won't. But today

00:25:53.660 there really is no excuse. And I'm preaching to myself just as much as anyone else. There's

00:25:57.420 no excuse not to do anything. You've got to eat something. So listen to it, skim it, do

00:26:03.740 what you have to. Don't, if you tell yourself it has to be an hour every time, you won't do

00:26:08.680 it. Right. You know, and then you, and then you feel like a failure and then one day turns

00:26:13.660 into two, turns into a week and then you're done. And, and, and, but deep down, then you're

00:26:18.820 beating yourself up more and there's shame in that. Like, it's terrible what, what we

00:26:21.900 can do to ourselves. My aunt, a couple of years ago going through stuff, it was actually

00:26:26.380 when I was still at ESPN and just the ending there, the last couple of years were tough and

00:26:30.960 a couple of things. But one thing she shared with me that I have continued to use and then

00:26:38.420 shared with my kids is it doesn't have to be an hour or even 15 minutes, ideally. Right. But for,

00:26:45.980 you know, younger kids in college age and they're on the run. And again, we all think we're busy at

00:26:49.600 that time. Like, you know, when you're walking to class, you can just pray. No one has to know.

00:26:54.600 You have to drop to your knees in the middle of the park or whatever. Sometimes it's a quick,

00:26:59.780 Jesus, I trust in you. Three seconds, maybe two. I talk fast and it's really fast. And it's just a

00:27:07.220 really good reminder that you can pray anywhere at any time. And then if that becomes a habit,

00:27:15.860 there's a real domino effect in a good way versus, versus the other way.

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00:28:35.340 Can you tell me about your relationship with your kids? Cause I love that you're, you're always

00:28:39.560 posting about them and it just seems like y'all have a really sweet parent-child relationship,

00:28:44.680 but also at this point, maybe even a friendship. And you know, my kids are in the itty bitty stage,

00:28:51.180 six, four, and two, but that's, I mean, that's one of the goals of every parent. You want to

00:28:55.920 maintain that relationship forever while not being their friend too early because they need the rule

00:29:02.140 giver and they need the authority. Yes. Um, so maybe that's like a big question, but just tell

00:29:07.780 me about how you've kind of maintained what seems like a super healthy and sweet relationship with

00:29:12.220 your three kids. That's so isn't that the biggest compliment when with your children, because it's

00:29:17.800 something that we're forever questioning ourselves as mothers, you know, um, mine are now, yeah, 23,

00:29:24.600 21 and 19. So we were on the exact same path as you with every other year. Oh, another baby. You

00:29:32.560 know, um, it is definitely a friendship now with my oldest Quinn, who's 23, graduated college in May

00:29:40.380 and has a job and she works in Nashville and, um, she calls me her best friend. And I'm like,

00:29:47.380 it brings tears to my eyes because I always heard that as a younger mother that someday,

00:29:52.940 you know, you're in the throngs of it when older parents share that with you. Someday they're

00:29:57.360 going to be your best friend, but probably not until they're about 25 and you better buckle up

00:30:01.320 and hang on and pray. True. All of those things. And it's here. No, it's not perfect. I annoy her

00:30:08.900 so much. Um, but you know, she calls me more than I call her now. You know, I used to poke,

00:30:16.520 poke and stalk her as she said, you know, and now she calls and she FaceTimes all the time. And the other

00:30:21.540 night, um, we're trying to go to bed and she wanted to FaceTime and it was an hour and a half

00:30:26.360 and you know, I think they fell asleep and he's like, what time did you end up? And I'm like,

00:30:31.800 I didn't tell him the truth because I didn't want him to be like, you can't cause I need my sleep.

00:30:35.020 And I, I'm bad about sleep, but I don't want to hang up with her because it took a long time to get

00:30:41.400 to the point where she wants to talk to me once coming. She might like him more than she likes me.

00:30:46.380 Honestly, it's, I love that. What a great problem to have each. What I would say is like each

00:30:52.600 relationship with, with your, with each kid is very different and awesome in its own way. I think

00:30:58.620 that's one thing that I had to learn throughout all those years is, you know, just because you have

00:31:03.640 the same rules for each child, like as it should be, um, you might have to communicate those rules

00:31:12.560 slightly differently and they might receive them differently. And the punishment is going to be

00:31:16.380 the same too, but the way that you communicate it, sometimes that every, every kid, they're

00:31:22.620 different human beings. So I think with age, of course, she's 23. My son, Nicholas is 21 and my

00:31:29.640 daughter, Evan is 19 and she's a sophomore in college. Nicholas is about to graduate. So his,

00:31:34.840 our conversations now are so much different and he is looking to me a little bit more, but also trying

00:31:39.480 to prove himself. Like I don't need you. And I know mom, you have all these, you know, connections,

00:31:43.680 but I don't need them or want them. And I don't offer them because I think that's a dangerous road

00:31:47.740 to go down as well. They actually don't need me. They've proven they don't need me in those ways.

00:31:51.660 They have their own talent and skillset. And I, that's no, I don't want them to ever feel like

00:31:57.500 that probably to a detriment. I've always stayed way, way, way in the background. Do it without me.

00:32:02.300 Trust me. It's probably better these days, depending on who you talk to, who might hate your

00:32:05.300 mother. You don't want to mention that you're my child, you know, but it's been beautiful

00:32:09.160 to see, you know, having them together at the wedding, all three of my kids. Surreal. Again,

00:32:18.500 not what I would have dreamt of, right? Like I got married and had kids the way we're quote

00:32:23.980 unquote supposed to do it. And to have them standing by my side though, for parents who

00:32:32.640 have gone through this divorce with children and then remarrying, oh my gosh, it's so hard.

00:32:39.160 And to blend families, it's so hard. And we're just in the beginning stages of it. But my kids

00:32:44.940 have gotten to witness their mother finding love again, not having given up on it. And they get to

00:32:55.080 witness me being treated like a princess by this man. And our relationship has changed. Our friendship

00:33:05.460 has changed and evolved with my kids because they've seen me with Dave and how that relationship

00:33:10.640 has evolved too. So, um, I feel like I have a better relationship with my kids now more than ever

00:33:16.000 because they're, they're, I think they appreciate me more. I hope, I think so. Um, some of them

00:33:24.800 communicate that differently than others, you know, but they, they also see a softening in me

00:33:29.960 where I think I was like this for so many years. And because I was, you know, the mom and the soul

00:33:36.640 red winner their entire lives, um, which had, which has brought on a lot of pressure. Um, and I'm still

00:33:42.900 that person. Um, but they've seen me soften and to see me taken care of has made them soften towards

00:33:49.920 me. So I'm still learning every day about how our relationship is evolving, you know, as mother and

00:33:57.140 children, even though they're adults. But, um, I think for so long, I was afraid, you know, that they,

00:34:04.060 that the friendship would, wouldn't get to this point. Um, and we got to earn it both, both the

00:34:10.980 parents and the children have to really earn it and work hard and be kind and forgive. But I know

00:34:15.860 now that, um, they see me in a different light and it was worth all the hard work with still a long

00:34:25.060 way to go. Yeah. It's really special. Are they all friends? They are. I love that. And that's what I

00:34:31.640 want to know. How did you help foster that? Um, because you know, that's what I want so much.

00:34:37.940 And I always tell them, I'm like, I make them answer me. How long will you be sisters? And they

00:34:43.300 say forever whenever they're in an argument. So what does that mean that you're always going to

00:34:47.120 be friends and you always need to be kind. And you know, I, I, I say that like raising girls is

00:34:53.160 relationship management from a very early age, whereas raising boys is a lot of injury management

00:34:57.900 from a very early age. And we don't really like, we don't have any ER visits or anything. We've got

00:35:03.120 a ton of emotions and princess dresses. And you know, like I wasn't raised with sisters. I'm an

00:35:09.940 only girl, but, um, I am like, I'm learning a lot about what that looks like. And I am not,

00:35:17.380 I'm realizing I'm not just raising a six, four and two year old. Like I'm raising a future 25,

00:35:22.740 23, 19 year old. And I want them to have each other's back forever. So like what advice,

00:35:27.840 can you give those of us who are in the thick of like, you know, the young and toddler years

00:35:31.500 to help already start cultivating that love and that like between them?

00:35:37.580 Yes. And while expecting this, because they're going to, right. And some of that is like,

00:35:42.600 you're learning to work through conflict, which is good. Yeah. I think it's super important to that's

00:35:48.580 part of it. Um, I would start a little earlier even, and my goal as a mother was to have my kids

00:35:55.940 very close together. Now, what a blessing I was able to, so many women are unable to, and that

00:36:01.820 breaks my heart. Um, if you can, it's people like, Oh my gosh, it's a lot in my career. And then

00:36:07.320 two in diapers. It's like, yeah, it's hard. And it's fleeting. Get over yourself, go do it. Because

00:36:14.240 my dream was that at this age, they would then be friends. And it has absolutely been the case. So I

00:36:21.580 don't remember much from those years because when my third was born, my first was still three.

00:36:28.240 Yeah. And I was on, you know, regional and national TV and you know, that my husband was a

00:36:36.060 stay at home dad. And it was like, I'm sad in some ways because I was so busy and so stressed that I

00:36:43.060 don't remember as much as I'd like to. I hope that they come up with some sort of pill that can help

00:36:47.520 my memory just regenerate and come back because there were so many great times and it was a

00:36:51.900 different era without cell phones. Really? They were just coming on, you know? And so I don't,

00:36:56.580 I don't have that video evidence like most parents today do with everything possible with their

00:37:01.080 children. Um, it is hard, but I would say if you are able, Lord willing, um, go for it and have them

00:37:09.620 really close together. Um, you know, since then I joke around with them and I use a lot of humor and,

00:37:15.520 um, I'm like, guys, I'm going to be dead someday. Hopefully not for a really, really long time

00:37:21.080 because I want to make your life really difficult for a very long time. But someday when I'm gone,

00:37:25.140 it is only you, you only have each other. So be kind like you're doing already. And then in the

00:37:31.500 in-between phase with friends and especially with girls, because girls can be so difficult and catty 0.96

00:37:37.640 and mean, and they allow friendships to take precedence over the relationships with their

00:37:43.920 siblings. And that's not okay. Is it normal? Sure. Let's continue to teach them the lessons

00:37:50.100 from it when they're in it, you know, and your loyalty must lie with each other. I love that my

00:37:56.820 son is in the middle of these two girls. I've always been like, yep, my boys in between these two

00:38:00.800 psycho girls of mine and they're crazy and love and all the best possible ways. Um, 0.99

00:38:08.020 he is the glue, you know, he's a peacemaker. He also will call me on stuff. He'll be like,

00:38:13.440 mom, I think you were too hard on her on that. And here's why. And I'm like,

00:38:16.460 ew, stay in your lane. I'm your mom. And then I'm like, he was right. You know? So the friendship

00:38:21.980 is everything. And, and it also comes from like that desire to have them close together

00:38:26.240 was because I have, I'm the oldest of three. I have a brother who's 21 months younger and then

00:38:32.080 nine years younger than me. And I, I felt like it took me until I was an adult to get to know him

00:38:39.420 because he was a different generation. Yeah. So he's 43. I'm 52. Like it is completely different.

00:38:46.660 I went to college. He was nine years old. Yeah. So, um, for us, that's what worked. And I, I,

00:38:54.080 I wish I would have had more. I do. I really regret that. And it wasn't, you know, I wasn't the

00:38:59.320 one that was staying home. I was very present and turned on a lot of assignments through the years

00:39:03.360 to be home. Didn't sleep much for a good 10, 12 years, honestly. So I don't want it to be like,

00:39:08.800 I wasn't home because I sacrificed to make sure I was, I still feel it physically and mentally.

00:39:13.880 It was the best thing possible. But, um, I, I just, I always, people say, well, it's expensive to

00:39:20.200 have kids and it's tough. I'm like, yeah, uh-huh. There are so many people who regret not having

00:39:25.160 more. I always say, you'll never regret having more, but you might, if you don't. Yeah. And

00:39:29.520 somehow we always figure it out. Even financially, you figure it out, especially when it's based in

00:39:37.060 really the right reason. So I don't know, sometimes they hate each other, but I did a show with, um,

00:39:43.200 just Dave and I actually, right before the wedding, Dave took my seat, kicked me out of my chair and

00:39:48.660 interviewed me on my own show two days before the wedding. And the, the BTS before the recording

00:39:54.620 began was all three of my kids. They were in the condo at the same time because it was wedding week

00:39:59.780 and I had all three sitting next to me on the couch for a minute and it was utter chaos. And it was like

00:40:04.960 they turned into six, four and two again. And they were like, poke, poke, poke, elbow, scream, yell,

00:40:09.340 throw something. I'm like, how old are we? And I loved it because they really are friends. So for as many

00:40:16.640 things I feel like I failed at.

00:40:18.660 As a mom, I must've done a few things right along the way because they love each other.

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00:41:47.400 And not only your relationship with your kids, but I also noticed from what you post,

00:41:51.500 your relationship with your parents is still really special and it seems really close,

00:41:56.500 which not everyone can say that. I also, super close to my parents, really close to my dad,

00:42:01.440 closer than we were growing up. We just kind of needed a little bit of separation for me to go to

00:42:07.200 college and for me to grow into the adult that I always wanted to be. And then, yeah, you know,

00:42:12.800 I rely on him so much. Call him all the time like your kids do. But you have maintained that relationship

00:42:17.940 with your parents who have been married for how many years now? A lot of years.

00:42:24.080 This, October 16th is 54 years.

00:42:27.100 54 years.

00:42:28.020 You talk about a role model for a relationship. My parents are everything to me. And I'm forever

00:42:39.980 in debt. I never went through a bad phase as a teenager or even in college. I really didn't.

00:42:45.480 I was such a goody two-shoes. It was so annoying to everybody else in my life. And I was such a

00:42:50.420 pleaser.

00:42:50.760 Except for the one time that you almost committed a felony.

00:42:54.860 I did commit a felony.

00:42:56.480 That we were talking about off air. You were a goody two-shoes, except for that one time that

00:43:02.500 you tried to commit identity theft.

00:43:04.620 Yeah, I did. Well, I did commit identity theft, actually. It's the fake ID. That's the worst thing

00:43:12.140 I did. I always said to my mom and dad, I did have a government-issued fake ID from college because

00:43:18.400 I had to go to the bar that my boyfriend, soon-to-be husband, was going to. I was only 20 and I had to

00:43:25.940 hang out. So I didn't tell them until years later. And I actually still have it. Is that a crime too?

00:43:33.920 Probably. Don't come after me.

00:43:35.620 I don't know. Maybe statute of limitations is good on that one.

00:43:37.440 Okay, I would hope so.

00:43:38.740 I don't know.

00:43:39.200 Right, 31 years later.

00:43:40.260 Yeah.

00:43:40.480 But I showed them and they were mortified.

00:43:42.800 Oh my goodness.

00:43:43.600 And I was like, see, I wasn't perfect to my brother, see?

00:43:46.840 Yeah.

00:43:47.680 But they, I don't know, like their strength and what they went through to get to today,

00:43:59.840 but certainly at the beginning of their relationship when, you know, back in 1971,

00:44:05.580 it was shortly after interracial marriages were legalized, which is crazy to think about.

00:44:13.220 Yeah.

00:44:13.700 A black dad and a white mom and it wasn't okay by everybody in their families and they went 1.00

00:44:18.880 through it.

00:44:19.500 Wow.

00:44:19.960 And my mom was told to choose between her family or my dad.

00:44:23.620 Wow.

00:44:24.180 By her parents, her mother more so.

00:44:26.480 Mm-hmm.

00:44:27.480 And the fact that at 22 years old, she had to make that decision, I'm in awe of her.

00:44:34.440 Yeah.

00:44:34.680 And that strength and the awe of my dad to make sure he protected her and had her back.

00:44:40.220 And if anybody is really bored, I keep on my ex account pinned a story that NFL Films

00:44:46.680 did of my family like seven or eight years ago.

00:44:49.100 Wow.

00:44:49.540 And in that piece, it's like seven or eight minutes long actually too, I learned something

00:44:55.600 about them and what they went through during that time and what my dad did to make sure

00:45:00.760 that my mom's parents knew that even though you disowned her, that he was taking care

00:45:05.900 of her.

00:45:06.440 Mm-hmm.

00:45:06.580 He was being a man and a leader and protector of my mother as she was devastated to have to

00:45:10.720 make that decision.

00:45:11.540 Yeah.

00:45:11.740 So I found out that story, details of that story through that NFL Films piece.

00:45:17.280 I didn't know what a blessing to have that long after we're all gone for our great, great

00:45:20.940 grandkids who know that they're only here because of the strength of my parents in that

00:45:24.420 time.

00:45:24.720 But I look back at that and what they went through and I am, I'm in awe of them because

00:45:32.620 not many people would have chosen that.

00:45:36.440 And so I've drawn so much strength from them as a mother, as a wife, and trying to emulate

00:45:46.420 how they've done things.

00:45:47.420 And talking through a lot of difficult things with them, with divorce, and being so scared

00:45:53.900 to disappoint them, to disappoint God, like so, so deep.

00:46:00.080 And they, of course, are parents and they have literally pulled me off the ground at times

00:46:06.060 when I was like, I thought it was over.

00:46:09.180 Life was over.

00:46:09.900 Um, so I, yeah, I owe them everything and, um, I lately have been, um, you know, I found

00:46:20.820 this happiness with, um, my husband and I've noticed that I haven't talked to them as much

00:46:27.800 every other day instead of, or third day instead of every day.

00:46:33.560 And I'm like, oh gosh, I can't let that happen because, um, listen, as a parent, you just want

00:46:39.040 your kid to be happy, even if she's old, like you still want your kid to be happy and that's

00:46:42.340 all they want.

00:46:42.900 So they're fine, but I've noticed it and I miss that.

00:46:46.260 So I need to continue to prioritize them. 0.95

00:46:50.320 Um, if anyone has Kleenex, I look like an idiot right now. 0.99

00:46:53.660 Yeah. 0.98

00:46:54.380 There we go.

00:46:55.260 Thank you.

00:46:55.700 You knew, didn't you?

00:46:57.080 Thank you.

00:46:57.660 One more.

00:46:58.700 Um, and, and because I had to do that for me plenty of times, by the way, so don't worry

00:47:02.960 about it.

00:47:03.420 I, I have this, this fear, this real fear because they're 79 and 76.

00:47:09.900 My dad's been, um, he's actually at, um, the Mayo Clinic as we speak right now, as we're

00:47:18.220 taping this in Jacksonville, outside of where they live for his cancer, which he's been dealing

00:47:22.940 with two different kinds for 14 years.

00:47:24.720 Wow.

00:47:25.420 Um, so strong.

00:47:26.680 Yeah.

00:47:26.860 He looks so strong.

00:47:27.900 I know he's almost 80 and you'd never know what he looks.

00:47:30.400 As he says, though, black don't crack.

00:47:31.980 So he doesn't take all the, all the credit for it. 0.92

00:47:34.180 I'm like, dad, whatever.

00:47:36.300 Um, he looks so young and healthy, despite what he's dealing with.

00:47:40.620 His faith has grown so much throughout this cancer process and it's incredible.

00:47:44.140 And he's inspired us through it.

00:47:45.920 But, um, I just, I want to honor them in every way.

00:47:49.880 Um, and through a lot of it, I didn't think that I was, but I know now that I was, um,

00:47:55.980 um, and just being true to myself, you know, even if it was stressful for them, because

00:48:02.080 being true to ourselves can come with a lot of backlash when you're in the spotlight as

00:48:07.400 no one knows better than you, but, um, they are my people.

00:48:13.680 Um, it was also such a blessing.

00:48:15.940 I was fearful that when I found my person that they wouldn't be here to see it for obvious

00:48:22.500 reasons as we age, so to have my kids there to witness it and my mom and dad to witness

00:48:28.660 this, um, they are, yeah, they're my best friends.

00:48:32.920 And I, I just want to continue to please them until, until forever, you know?

00:48:40.580 Yeah.

00:48:41.200 Gosh, I think about how important that is to God that one of the big 10 commandments was

00:48:46.760 literally honor your father and mother.

00:48:48.520 Or like, that's how much that relationship matters to him.

00:48:52.520 And it just seems to me, just as an outsider looking in, like you've just done that so

00:48:57.240 well.

00:48:57.620 And I just can imagine how proud they are of you.

00:49:00.540 And when you're talking about their story, going back to them taking a risk for the sake

00:49:05.920 of not only love, but also just what was right, that these are two human beings, image bearers

00:49:11.460 of God, no matter what their melanin count is.

00:49:14.120 And God called them together and what God has called together, let no man separate.

00:49:17.220 That's what Jesus says.

00:49:19.060 And that must've been at least in part, like where you got the strength and the courage

00:49:25.960 to stand for what was true when it was like really risky to do that.

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00:50:29.780 You've had this long career, this illustrious career, and it came to a point when like truth

00:50:40.820 was on the line and you took a risk.

00:50:43.740 And can you talk to us about that?

00:50:45.180 I know you've talked about your story a lot and like standing up for truth and ESPN and

00:50:48.860 all of that.

00:50:49.640 But can you take us back to that moment of having to like muster the strength and courage

00:50:54.280 needed to represent truth?

00:50:56.060 I had been suspended, punished at ESPN in 2021.

00:51:03.020 As we taped this exactly four years ago, I was suspended and in bed, sobbing and scared

00:51:10.860 to death of what was next.

00:51:12.960 And yeah, I was suspended for speaking up about being forced to take the COVID vaccine in order

00:51:20.260 to keep my job at Disney.

00:51:22.260 Not everybody realizes that ESPN and ABC are owned by Disney.

00:51:25.240 So there's a lot of tentacles there.

00:51:27.400 And I had to be fully vaccinated by September 30th, 2021 or else.

00:51:31.660 And I waited to the very last second and I had prayed about it because I was ready to

00:51:36.960 walk away.

00:51:37.880 But as the sole wage earner with three kids and, you know, an ex and alimony and all those

00:51:46.960 things, like I, I, I had, I felt like I had to make the choice to, um, to do it, to keep

00:51:53.420 my job.

00:51:54.260 I still struggle with that.

00:51:55.820 I feel like I caved.

00:51:57.380 Um, I did what I had to do at that moment with the knowledge that we had at that time

00:52:01.900 too.

00:52:02.160 A lot has changed.

00:52:02.720 Um, and so I, I did it and I complied and then I talked on a podcast about it and while

00:52:10.200 complying, I had literally come from getting the shot.

00:52:12.560 So I was running a little bit hot, um, mad that I had to do it.

00:52:15.740 And I said, um, I think it's sick and wrong for any employer to force an employee to do

00:52:21.820 something to their bodies that they don't want to.

00:52:24.600 Pretty simple.

00:52:25.800 I said, but I love my job and I need my job.

00:52:29.340 And here we are.

00:52:31.480 And that was the beginning of the end.

00:52:34.780 Um, and I didn't know that it was because I, I did it.

00:52:38.300 I took the job.

00:52:39.320 You told me to do it.

00:52:40.400 And, um, but at that time, yeah, it was a different world.

00:52:44.200 Um, and when I was pulled off the air and suspended, I mean, I had gone from like, you

00:52:50.640 know, kind of the model employee for all those years.

00:52:55.120 I started in 2007 there.

00:52:57.360 I didn't leave till 2023.

00:52:59.420 Yeah.

00:52:59.900 Um, I was one of the longest tenured women at that network and they really, you know, had

00:53:04.960 a very, um, solid lucrative contract and, um, yeah, they just crushed me.

00:53:13.200 And then public apology that was forced to come from it.

00:53:16.180 Um, and of course you just do it.

00:53:18.080 Then you're just scared.

00:53:18.920 They scare you into it.

00:53:19.800 I'm like, okay, I'll say and do whatever you want, whatever.

00:53:22.420 Um, so they suspended you in 2021, but you didn't stop working there until 2023.

00:53:26.080 And the turning point in standing up for myself was after they punished me and continued to

00:53:33.840 punish me even after the apology and after the suspension and continue to take events

00:53:37.320 and opportunities away from me.

00:53:39.400 Um, that wasn't fun, but I realized that, wait, you did that to me.

00:53:44.900 But then my colleagues who happened to align with the narrative that Disney wants with

00:53:50.280 everything, um, were able to go on an NBA show, basketball, and talk about how devastated

00:53:56.980 they were that Roe versus Wade was overturned and abortion on a basketball show or the alleged

00:54:02.360 LGBTQ, um, don't say gay laws in Florida that actually were never that, right?

00:54:07.960 On a football show on ESPN airwaves when I did it on a podcast on the side, separating

00:54:14.720 myself from ESPN.

00:54:15.680 And I'm, I was so, I was honestly confused and asked questions and they wouldn't answer

00:54:18.960 and wouldn't answer.

00:54:20.020 And it wasn't even political what you said.

00:54:22.020 No.

00:54:22.200 It was about principle.

00:54:23.080 It was about principle.

00:54:24.300 And, um, I separated myself.

00:54:26.960 I think this is sick and wrong, but I did it onward.

00:54:30.680 I mean, I'm going back to work.

00:54:31.980 Yeah.

00:54:32.380 So the hypocrisy was thick and it had always, it had been building for years since Trump was

00:54:36.160 elected and even really before then.

00:54:37.460 But I stayed quiet on everything else in order to keep my job.

00:54:40.860 And so the hypocrisy is when I said no.

00:54:43.320 And when I had to decide what no meant, and in this case it was, do I, do I stand up for

00:54:50.040 myself to the point of filing a lawsuit against Disney?

00:54:52.920 Um, that was, that was the scary moment. 0.52

00:54:57.100 Um, and I knew that I could no longer be silent because then I'm a hypocrite if I am preaching

00:55:02.540 about standing up and standing tall to my children and then being quiet. 0.81

00:55:08.380 I'm just as bad as everybody else.

00:55:10.620 So, um, the night I called an attorney, Brian Friedman, who has saved a lot of us, Megan

00:55:16.140 Kelly.

00:55:16.600 He was Megan Kelly's attorney when she, um, was treated the way she was by NBC.

00:55:21.200 Um, Chris Harrison, the former host of The Bachelor, who was treated terribly by ABC as well.

00:55:26.840 Yeah.

00:55:27.220 Um, and canceled for nothing.

00:55:29.300 Um, both of them.

00:55:30.420 Like when you look back at that, not to like rehash both of their stories, but some people

00:55:33.900 don't know.

00:55:34.380 Megan Kelly, she made like a blackface comment, not even like approving of it, just asking

00:55:39.140 a devil's advocate question.

00:55:40.740 Yeah.

00:55:41.440 The outrage was crazy.

00:55:43.020 And then Chris Harrison for extending the benefit of the doubt or grace to someone who

00:55:47.740 had gone to like an antebellum, formal, an authority in the South.

00:55:53.260 Yes.

00:55:53.840 And he didn't even say it was okay.

00:55:55.300 He was just like, well, you know, and he was kicked off.

00:55:58.720 I mean, it's crazy.

00:55:59.540 It was a crazy time.

00:56:00.700 I'm not sure if all of that would still happen today.

00:56:02.480 Maybe it would, but it was such a hyper, like, which trial time.

00:56:06.720 Completely.

00:56:07.400 And when you think about it, Chris has happened six months before mine.

00:56:11.300 We had been dear friends and he actually reached out to me to talk to my father.

00:56:15.980 They had been friends.

00:56:17.060 Chris and I hosted Miss America together years prior.

00:56:20.320 Spelling Bee, like crazy ties back with Chris and I.

00:56:23.020 And he wanted to talk to my father as a black man to see, here, look at the tape.

00:56:28.560 This is what he said to my dad, please.

00:56:30.020 And tell me, did I say something wrong?

00:56:31.440 Let me learn from him.

00:56:32.220 And my black father, who lived through the civil rights era and broke the color barrier

00:56:38.420 at West Point as the first black football player ever there and has felt true racism,

00:56:43.460 was like, young man, you did nothing wrong.

00:56:46.260 Stand tall.

00:56:47.320 But it was too, you know, it was too late in the eyes of society and social media back

00:56:51.580 in 2021.

00:56:53.300 Isn't it funny, by the way, that Megyn Kelly, for asking a question about blackface and how, 1.00

00:56:58.080 remember in the 80s, this was her context, I think.

00:57:00.240 In the 80s, when people dressed up in blackface for Halloween, and it was fine. 1.00

00:57:04.640 And now, a couple years later, it's not.

00:57:06.740 Like, what is that?

00:57:07.400 That's all her question was.

00:57:08.940 I believe this week, Whoopi Goldberg talked about people, I don't even remember the full

00:57:15.060 context with that, but hey, just make your skin a little bit darker to blend in, and

00:57:18.640 then you can help defend from the ICE agents, like whatever that was.

00:57:23.020 Insanity, how there's so much hypocrisy there.

00:57:26.200 So it's thick.

00:57:26.900 And yes, it's changed, but their lives were altered forever, as was mine.

00:57:31.500 I had to ask myself at that moment, how far are you willing to go?

00:57:35.960 And I talked to you earlier about the harder right, which is part of the cadet prayer at

00:57:43.000 West Point that my dad made us as kids memorize and make me to choose the harder right instead

00:57:48.500 of the easier wrong and never to be content with a half truth when the whole can be one.

00:57:53.420 Love that.

00:57:54.720 And this was very clear at that moment, that the harder right was to speak up and to probably

00:57:59.160 throw my entire career and livelihood away, but to speak truth with it.

00:58:03.680 It literally, my situation was all-encompassing compared to that prayer.

00:58:08.920 And so that night before the lawsuit dropped, I spoke to each one of my kids.

00:58:13.880 Quinn was in college.

00:58:14.620 The other two were in high school.

00:58:15.540 And they each were scared because they knew what was going to come at them, including

00:58:20.180 snide remarks from teachers that had already happened about lesser things, coaches, their

00:58:27.700 friends' parents, social media.

00:58:29.360 My kids were attacked.

00:58:30.840 People threatened to rape my daughters through the years because of opinions their mother has 1.00

00:58:35.640 had, like next level.

00:58:37.600 So I wanted them to know what was coming, to never feel pressure to defend me ever, ever.

00:58:42.540 But if someone brings it up, remember diversity of thought.

00:58:46.360 That's what we lead with.

00:58:47.620 You don't have to agree with your mother, actually, but just remind people that we all

00:58:51.060 have a right to our opinion and to be respectful and kind.

00:58:53.860 And when I, I was apologizing to my kids as I said what was coming, I'm sorry.

00:58:58.520 And my son, who was 17 at the time, looked at me and he said, Mom, it's about time you

00:59:05.120 stood up for yourself.

00:59:07.380 Wow.

00:59:07.740 What a lesson that my child taught me, that number one, not only was I doing the right

00:59:12.300 thing, but that he had been witnessing me doing the wrong thing for so many years, even

00:59:17.760 though my heart was in the right place and well-intended to keep my job so I could support

00:59:21.680 everybody, but to protect them from that ugliness that I knew would come.

00:59:26.300 But I was teaching them the opposite of what I was preaching to them.

00:59:30.560 I was teaching them to be quiet and just accept it and to take it.

00:59:35.280 And that was the wrong thing.

00:59:36.160 So I knew, Allie, at that moment, that even if I lost this lawsuit, pretty good chance.

00:59:42.480 Talk about David versus Goliath, like me versus Disney.

00:59:46.120 Are you kidding me?

00:59:47.800 But, and it sounds cheesy and I've said it in public before, but I knew that even if I

00:59:52.560 lost, that I already won because my kids had seen me like being silent.

01:00:01.000 And now at least they know that I stood up and I'm going to go down swinging.

01:00:04.140 So it was such a beautiful time within the scariest time.

01:00:10.100 And I'm so grateful that ESPN crushed me and were hypocritical in their treatment of me

01:00:19.320 because I would never would have been backed into a corner to have to make that kind of

01:00:24.840 a decision.

01:00:25.360 And for those who don't know, how did the lawsuit end up?

01:00:29.780 It ended up settling out of court with Disney.

01:00:34.460 And from the moment of suspension to the settlement was 22 months.

01:00:40.420 Wow.

01:00:41.660 Too long, two years.

01:00:43.080 Oh my gosh.

01:00:43.860 And then 16 months from the moment of when the lawsuit was filed to departure.

01:00:49.060 So every single day I went on air with a pending lawsuit, knowing Bob Iger and company, to say

01:01:00.260 the least, did not want me on their airwaves and they had to pay me as well.

01:01:04.460 But I was so scared to go in every single day because I knew my bosses had told me when I

01:01:10.680 was coming off suspension, how many people hated me and were disappointed in me for my opinions

01:01:14.640 and my thoughts on other things as well.

01:01:17.420 And so when I went back to work the first day after my suspension, my mom and dad had

01:01:22.980 come and driven down from Pennsylvania or up.

01:01:25.540 I lived in Connecticut from Pennsylvania and were with me when I was on the floor and not

01:01:32.080 eating and actually confined to bed because I got the worst case of COVID after taking the

01:01:41.800 shot that was going to guarantee that I didn't get it.

01:01:44.020 There was just so much hypocrisy in all of it and I was not healthy at that point.

01:01:49.060 And my dad, while undergoing chemotherapy, they came anyway because that's what parents 0.76

01:01:53.920 do.

01:01:55.180 And when I say pull me off the ground, when they arrived, I was on the ground in between

01:02:00.180 my coffee table and the couch.

01:02:02.440 And yeah, they literally lifted me up and then they were there.

01:02:06.820 And then when I went back to work, my dad turned into a football player and coach Gary

01:02:11.660 Steele and said, okay, ladies, I was with my best friend at the time, my makeup artist

01:02:16.220 and my mom.

01:02:17.060 And he's like, huddle up and we're going to say a prayer and you're going to go in there

01:02:21.340 with strength and you're not going to crumble.

01:02:24.020 Because I was shaking.

01:02:25.360 I'd probably lost 10 pounds with my fears during the suspension.

01:02:28.560 And we said, our father who art in heaven, we went through all of that, all of the things

01:02:39.400 that we do as Catholics.

01:02:40.440 And then he said, St. Michael, the archangel, protect us from the wickedness and snares of

01:02:45.360 the devil.

01:02:45.680 And I went into that building every single day from that day on upon return from suspension

01:02:54.160 on the phone, talking to my parents, reciting that prayer before I walked in that building

01:03:00.740 every day.

01:03:01.540 And I literally felt, I felt protected.

01:03:05.640 I knew God had my back because he had up until this point, was he going to quit now?

01:03:09.500 I didn't think that he was.

01:03:10.520 And so I envisioned this bubble around me as I walked in the doors every day and said

01:03:17.640 hi to everybody, even those who quit talking to me and put the mic on and plug my IFB in

01:03:23.180 and compartmentalized and live on the air every single day, national TV, two hours.

01:03:30.100 And every day we said that prayer and every day I felt stronger and every day I did better.

01:03:37.480 Like my performance, I can look back now and say it was the best work I've ever done with

01:03:43.740 the least amount of fear and insecurity, which I'd always carried.

01:03:47.740 I didn't show it on TV every day, but I felt it.

01:03:52.420 And it started to go away despite the hatred that I felt literally.

01:03:59.460 So I am so grateful for that time and for being backed into the corner to have to make the

01:04:05.800 toughest decision ever.

01:04:07.720 Aside from my personal life, it was the toughest decision ever.

01:04:10.920 And my kids got to see, you got to practice what you preach.

01:04:15.540 Yeah.

01:04:16.260 Well, thank you so much.

01:04:17.560 Just for your example.

01:04:19.420 I know you weren't trying to be an example for all of us.

01:04:23.040 I didn't want to.

01:04:23.620 I didn't want any of this.

01:04:24.620 You weren't trying to.

01:04:25.780 You weren't a culture warrior.

01:04:27.500 You weren't a political activist at that point.

01:04:29.620 You just knew something was unjust and you said it.

01:04:32.000 And you'd come from a legacy of that.

01:04:35.500 Like that is your heritage because your parents did the same thing in their own way.

01:04:39.340 So I'm just grateful.

01:04:40.840 I'm very grateful to you.

01:04:42.280 And we need to see that in different spheres of the world, not just conservative media.

01:04:46.980 Yeah.

01:04:47.640 Because, you know, we get like, of course, I genuinely believe everything that I say, but

01:04:52.160 it's also like it's a job.

01:04:54.340 We get paid for it too.

01:04:55.700 But you said the right thing when you were getting the opposite of getting paid for it.

01:05:00.860 Like you were getting, like going, paying a lot of money because you said it.

01:05:05.760 So I'm just thankful.

01:05:06.400 Thank you for saying that.

01:05:07.220 And I had one person who reached out to me, very prominent, probably the most prominent

01:05:12.220 at ESPN still.

01:05:14.320 And he said, why would you do this?

01:05:18.520 Like, why is it worth it?

01:05:20.520 Why would you risk everything?

01:05:22.020 And this is actually before the lawsuit.

01:05:23.820 It was during other things I had said.

01:05:26.820 It's like, what did he say?

01:05:29.380 His exact words, I believe, were, yeah, how does this help you?

01:05:35.200 And he's right.

01:05:37.140 I don't know that it helps me.

01:05:38.840 In that moment, it hurt me.

01:05:41.100 It did the opposite.

01:05:41.880 And he was right.

01:05:42.380 So when I look at the decision to file the lawsuit, it was building much sooner than I

01:05:49.340 ever realized, where when you're pushed down repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly. 0.96

01:05:57.380 Yeah, it was maybe dumb from a financial perspective.

01:06:01.840 And if I wanted to keep that incredible job that I'd worked my whole life for, you know,

01:06:09.480 at some point, I'm going to ask him about that and what he thinks now, because he speaks

01:06:15.200 quite differently now as well.

01:06:17.480 Yeah.

01:06:18.020 If it is who I'm thinking of, I can tell that.

01:06:20.760 Yeah.

01:06:20.980 Yeah.

01:06:21.740 And it's okay, because it made me think about it.

01:06:25.260 But that's why when I pulled that trigger and I knew with the lawsuit, first of all,

01:06:30.540 I knew there was no going back.

01:06:32.940 And it was super cool, I think.

01:06:35.420 And I mean, it didn't feel good.

01:06:36.840 But now to look back on those last 16 months with a pending lawsuit to still, I forced them

01:06:44.060 to put me on air every single day.

01:06:45.700 Um, and I also, the biggest gift was to have people come up to me in the bathroom because

01:06:53.140 they were afraid to say it in the hallway.

01:06:54.660 Yeah.

01:06:55.000 Or private DMs from private personal accounts, not work accounts.

01:06:59.900 Um, Disney accounts, you know, they were afraid, but they'd find a way to reach out to me and

01:07:04.680 say, thank you.

01:07:05.940 You're standing up for more than like, it would make me cry, Allie, because I was like, okay,

01:07:10.680 this is my little story right now.

01:07:12.720 And my problem is so much bigger than me.

01:07:16.820 Totally.

01:07:17.200 And I realized that just by standing up and talking about being forced to take a shot,

01:07:23.900 that I actually was representing thousands of people at my own company because Disney

01:07:28.260 is massive.

01:07:29.560 Yeah.

01:07:30.120 Um, so that's what kept me going besides feeling it was the right thing.

01:07:34.020 And for my kids, people I'll never have the opportunity to meet who I realized, okay,

01:07:40.240 they're afraid to speak up and they should be.

01:07:43.200 Look what happened to me.

01:07:43.880 I'm the prime example of why you stay silent at that time.

01:07:47.240 Now there's many more examples, you know, um, and I wasn't alone at the time either,

01:07:50.920 but it was, it was cool to realize this is nothing to do with me.

01:07:55.260 This is so much bigger.

01:07:56.340 And what a blessing that, that I got to be the one at that moment, at that network to

01:08:02.880 have a big mouth and, you know, get in trouble.

01:08:06.640 Yeah.

01:08:07.040 Well, I'm grateful.

01:08:07.740 Um, okay.

01:08:09.400 Can we end on a very superficial note?

01:08:12.100 Okay.

01:08:12.780 This is the elephant in the room here, actually.

01:08:15.640 What?

01:08:15.960 And it is that you were just so incredibly beautiful.

01:08:20.000 Like, yes, you are.

01:08:21.420 Okay.

01:08:21.720 And we all have to know how at 52 years old, you look the way that you do.

01:08:27.440 And so we all, all of the related gals, maybe even the related bros out there need to know

01:08:32.320 what you do for your skincare.

01:08:33.680 Is it really just, as you said, black don't crack, or do you have a secret for us less

01:08:39.480 melanated girlies out there? 0.91

01:08:41.700 Less melanated.

01:08:42.180 I don't think I've ever heard it put that way.

01:08:44.100 Yes.

01:08:44.540 So that when I am 52, I can look like a fraction of what safe still looks like.

01:08:50.300 Okay.

01:08:50.320 Yours, I'm going to move in.

01:08:51.760 You guys are all great for my ego.

01:08:53.360 Thank you.

01:08:54.020 Anytime.

01:08:54.740 Anytime.

01:08:55.740 No, thank you.

01:08:57.420 I, I have tried to really just own all of it the last few years.

01:09:04.600 When you sit in front of a camera for your whole career, um, and are judged based on

01:09:10.800 what you look like versus your words.

01:09:13.120 When I worked so hard to memorize every statistic and to tell a great story within every highlight.

01:09:19.160 And I only would have three and a half minutes for an interview live on SportsCenter, but

01:09:22.280 you're darn right.

01:09:22.860 I'm going to get like, they didn't listen to that. 0.84

01:09:25.500 Yeah.

01:09:25.820 Some did more than I'd probably, I'm probably giving credit, but like it was judged based

01:09:29.780 on this.

01:09:30.320 And then you sit in front of a mirror and you have a makeup artist, thank goodness.

01:09:33.540 But then they're like, oh, your eyebrows too low.

01:09:35.560 You should get some Botox.

01:09:37.580 And you know what?

01:09:38.540 For, for like three years, I, once a year or so I would for like three years, for once

01:09:45.980 a year, I'd go do it.

01:09:47.180 And then I realized this is not who I want to be.

01:09:50.440 And this is not who I want my daughters to be, to feel this pressure is so real.

01:09:56.020 They already live it with social media.

01:09:57.320 So several years, I just stopped, like, forget it.

01:10:02.060 This is what it is.

01:10:03.600 And, um, yes, my genetics are super helpful, I guess.

01:10:09.300 Thanks mom and dad.

01:10:10.620 But, um, I mean like product wise, I use beef tello.

01:10:15.160 I slather it all over my face every night.

01:10:17.840 That's it.

01:10:18.500 Um, I'm not great with, with water and I need to hydrate myself better.

01:10:23.720 Like we all do.

01:10:24.740 We all do.

01:10:25.300 Um, I am super passionate about exercising and being active and working out, especially

01:10:30.520 because my body is changing.

01:10:32.000 I am in menopause. 0.98

01:10:33.620 It sucks. 0.97

01:10:34.600 It is real. 0.99

01:10:35.460 It's different for every woman.

01:10:36.720 The hormone stuff, like I've had to dive deep on that and I'm failing at that too, because

01:10:40.460 I'm not taking the vitamins that they're giving me because of low this high that.

01:10:44.200 Um, honestly, I feel like I've, I probably look healthier now because I'm healthier internally.

01:10:52.960 Yeah.

01:10:53.880 And I'm being kinder to myself.

01:10:56.120 Not perfect.

01:10:57.520 I, I had this wedding dress I had to fit into a month ago.

01:11:00.660 That was super stressful.

01:11:01.660 I'm like, these pictures are going to last forever.

01:11:03.400 Y'all looked great.

01:11:04.460 Y'all both looked so good.

01:11:05.820 No, thank you.

01:11:06.580 I'm so, I'm, I'm so grateful for it, but I, I truly feel along with, okay, exercise,

01:11:11.420 exercise, eat well, I have the biggest sugar addiction.

01:11:15.280 Like it's terrible.

01:11:16.660 I asked Dave, I have to have sweets every night.

01:11:19.700 Like have to, it's a, it's a requirement.

01:11:22.060 I always say, okay, some people are drug addicts. 0.96

01:11:25.620 I could be a cokehead. 0.83

01:11:26.820 All right, guys, if I need my chocolate, leave me alone. 0.71

01:11:28.800 Like there are worse things, you know?

01:11:30.980 Um, yes, try to do all the healthy things, but I'm, I'm finally being a little kinder to

01:11:35.400 myself.

01:11:36.300 Yeah.

01:11:36.620 And I feel like it is reflecting in my, in my skin.

01:11:40.860 Like it sounds cheesy and I'll, I will admit I've been gray since I was 25.

01:11:46.160 My hair is white.

01:11:49.480 Oh my goodness.

01:11:50.940 Whenever you decide to let that girl, it's going to, it's going to look so good. 0.99

01:11:55.540 No, it's not.

01:11:56.180 Yes, it is.

01:11:57.140 Yes, it is.

01:11:58.200 Your husband agrees.

01:11:59.360 He's going to love it.

01:12:00.040 I don't think he, I don't think he actually agrees with it and it's okay at some point.

01:12:04.540 Whenever you decide, it could be 20 years from now, but it will look really good.

01:12:09.320 I think it'll look cool because I think the silver on, on darker complected people is 0.99

01:12:14.300 really like my dad is that silver fox with black skin and I love it.

01:12:18.160 Yeah.

01:12:18.760 Um, no, listen, it means a lot and, and I need to accept the compliment and not be like,

01:12:22.620 ew.

01:12:23.000 Right.

01:12:23.480 Oh my gosh.

01:12:24.100 It was so funny when you did that.

01:12:25.360 Cause I was like, you can tell that you have 20 something year old daughters because that's

01:12:28.720 exactly how they would respond.

01:12:30.640 Yeah.

01:12:30.900 Ew.

01:12:31.080 Mom stop. 0.64

01:12:31.420 But, but I, I, I do, I believe it is so much more internal now and I didn't think that before

01:12:38.260 cause we can do all the superficial things and that's great, but that's then what's happening

01:12:41.980 inside.

01:12:42.560 And I finally worked so hard on the inside through diving deep on some tough things.

01:12:49.640 Um, and through my faith, like that's the full circle part of this conversation is that

01:12:55.740 I finally know that no matter what and how I look, my husband's going to love me.

01:13:00.340 My kids are going to love me.

01:13:01.500 Usually my parents are going to love me.

01:13:03.720 And most importantly, God loves me.

01:13:05.420 He made me this way.

01:13:06.440 For years I was told you have to straighten your hair.

01:13:08.920 Oh my gosh.

01:13:09.840 On TV because that's not what TV anchors look like. 0.97

01:13:13.600 Right.

01:13:13.700 And so accepting who you are, um, and then taking care of these bodies that you said

01:13:18.760 to me earlier, we were given this, we have to take care of it.

01:13:24.220 So thank you.

01:13:25.180 And beef tallow.

01:13:26.820 Okay.

01:13:27.300 Beef tallow.

01:13:27.980 I got, I use the beef tallow too.

01:13:29.640 So I'm grateful for that.

01:13:30.980 I'm glad for the tip.

01:13:32.220 Um, well you were a woman to admire and if people don't already subscribe to your show,

01:13:36.580 how can they do that?

01:13:38.000 I think I have it down.

01:13:39.320 You can correct me when you say yes.

01:13:42.900 Sage deal show on YouTube and everywhere that you enjoy your podcast.

01:13:47.260 Yeah.

01:13:47.540 Everywhere you listen.

01:13:48.380 So YouTube, Spotify, Apple podcast, all that good stuff.

01:13:52.100 That's where people can subscribe.

01:13:53.320 And I am kind of crazy on Instagram because I blow up my kids.

01:13:56.760 Yes.

01:13:57.220 You do post regularly on Instagram, which I appreciate.

01:13:59.580 I love following people.

01:14:00.240 Sometimes because these kids get a little, sometimes like I've used it to humiliate them

01:14:03.920 in a kind way.

01:14:04.820 Like I told you to clean your room and it's been a week.

01:14:07.480 And so now I'm walking in and it's going on Instagram stories.

01:14:10.380 And because their friends follow me, guess what?

01:14:13.000 The rooms are cleaner.

01:14:14.040 So you see, you see.

01:14:15.120 Okay.

01:14:15.360 There you go.

01:14:15.800 That's the thing that you can do for your adult children that you don't do to your little

01:14:19.200 children.

01:14:19.800 They get to a certain age and public shaming is like socially acceptable.

01:14:23.400 Yes.

01:14:23.680 So I'll log that away for future parenting advice.

01:14:26.740 Thank you so much.

01:14:27.520 I really appreciate your authenticity so much.

01:14:29.920 And this was so good to get to talk to you.

01:14:32.240 It means so much that you had me on.

01:14:33.520 Thank you.

01:14:34.100 Thank you.

01:14:37.480 Thank you.

01:14:39.440 Thank you.

01:14:41.540 Thank you.

01:14:42.000 Thank you.

01:14:45.420 Thank you.

01:14:53.720 When you travel well, your KLM Royal Dutch Airlines ticket takes you to more than just

01:14:59.020 your destination.

01:14:59.820 It takes you to winding streets, spontaneous detours,

01:15:04.420 and the realisation that neither of you is actually good with directions.

01:15:09.580 And when the final shortcut taken isn't exactly short,

01:15:14.440 our crew is here to give you a trip home that goes just as planned.

01:15:20.260 KLM Royal Dutch Airlines.

01:15:22.160 When you travel, travel well.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - October 10, 2025

Ep 1252 ｜ Sage Steele on Her New Faith Journey & Finding Her Husband

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