Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1267 ｜ Frank Turek on Charlie Kirk Investigation & UC Berkeley Chaos ｜ Dr. Frank Turek

00:00:01.000 Apologist Dr. Frank Turek went into the lion's den at UC Berkeley a few days ago and the backlash

00:00:09.120 from agitators there was just insane. He is telling us what really went down. What was it

00:00:15.240 like to share the gospel in that kind of environment? We are also going to be getting

00:00:20.480 into what he thinks about Candace Owens' theories about Charlie Kirk's murder. We've got all that

00:00:26.760 and so much more on today's episode of Relatable. It's brought to you by our friends at Good

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00:00:49.460 Dr. Frank Turek, thanks so much for taking the time to join us. All right. I want to talk about UC

00:00:55.880 Berkeley. Can you just, before we get into the specifics, take us through the whole night being

00:01:01.140 asked to speak there, what you spoke about and how it went. Yeah, well, Charlie Kirk and I were

00:01:07.260 scheduled to go there from the summer. I said, Charlie, if there's one campus I want to go

00:01:13.560 and be with you on, it would be Berkeley. And he said, well, let's do it. So it was scheduled

00:01:19.100 for November 10th. And of course, we all know what happened two months prior. So I thought the whole

00:01:27.700 thing would be called off, but the team called me and said, we're still going to Berkeley. You know,

00:01:32.520 Erica said the show must go on to her credit. So we decided that we're going to Berkeley and Rob Schneider,

00:01:41.220 the actor comedian was going to join me. And so we planned the whole thing out and it was

00:01:47.840 scheduled at Berkeley and the police knew about it. The university knew about it.

00:01:53.880 And when we talk about what happened that night, you'll see that there's going to be probably a

00:02:01.340 lawsuit coming from the Department of Justice because Berkeley did not hold up their end of the

00:02:08.340 deal. It appears anyway. Okay. I spoke at UC Berkeley in 2018, which was really not a saner time

00:02:17.840 than it is now. And it was a lot more contained than what you did. I spoke to a large classroom

00:02:24.760 and I gave what I thought was a very neutral speech actually, because I went in knowing that it was the

00:02:31.620 lion's den, but it was right in the middle of the Kavanaugh saga. And I was one of the main voices kind

00:02:37.840 of sticking up for Kavanaugh that it's not right to just accuse a man based on basically nothing and

00:02:43.380 to try to ruin his life based on that. And it was the craziest still to this day. It was the craziest

00:02:49.580 experience at a college campus that I had ever had. There were students standing up in the middle of

00:02:54.560 my speech, screaming, yelling. I was, I was actually taking it back. I mean, I'm a, I'm a Texas girl.

00:03:01.500 And so I guess I just thought every, like, surely it's not going to be that insane. It was insane.

00:03:07.320 And that was seven years ago. And you saw way more vitriol than I saw. So tell me what went down.

00:03:13.660 Well, we call it UC berserkly for a reason, Allie. We had actually gotten into the venue early.

00:03:21.660 And, uh, so we were in the venue when most of the, uh, the damage was happening and Antifa was there.

00:03:31.220 Obviously they were hurling insults and slurs at the people trying to get in. They set off fireworks,

00:03:40.900 which sounded like gunfire. So people were scrambling. You've seen some of the video already.

00:03:46.700 Uh, and, uh, at one point some of the TPUSA staff went out there just to try and usher more people

00:03:53.380 into the venue and security, TPUSA security said, Hey, get back in the building because it's too

00:03:59.700 dangerous out here. So the venue held at least 2000 people. It's a beautiful theater. And they had two

00:04:07.500 balconies, uh, that as I say, the whole venue would hold dependent upon how they format it up to 2400.

00:04:14.600 Uh, I think there were at least 2000 seats in there and only between 900 and a thousand were filled

00:04:20.960 because the university decided not to let certain people in who didn't have their official ticket,

00:04:30.620 which is a whole nother thing. We had to, they had to use the university ticketing system.

00:04:35.220 And so what happened was, and many leftists went on, got the free tickets and then said they weren't

00:04:40.600 going to use them or didn't tell people they weren't going to use them, but they, they wanted to have

00:04:45.520 the venue be empty. So 900 to a thousand people courageously got in the doors opened at, let's see,

00:04:52.080 I was in there. The doors opened at five o'clock for a six 30 start. And so, uh, a number of people got in

00:05:01.640 there, but the university police did not keep the walkway free to allow people to get in. Uh, so

00:05:11.080 people were spat on, people were harassed and they were not only harassed getting in alley, they were

00:05:16.040 harassed getting out after the, the whole event was over. So the event ended, I want to say it was like

00:05:21.960 eight 45. So we started about, I'd say 20 minutes late. And so the, the, the whole event went a little

00:05:30.520 about two hours. Yeah. And, uh, Antifa was out there the whole time. It's not a large group of

00:05:37.500 people, just a very disruptive group of people. And not all of them were students, Allie. I would say

00:05:42.100 that from the reports that I got, cause I wasn't actually out on the sidewalk. Um, most of these

00:05:48.320 people were adults. Most of these people were probably George Soros funded, you know, liberal

00:05:54.520 agitators. And, uh, Harmeet Dillon, who is in the department of justice and is the top civil rights

00:06:00.960 attorney in the country or civil rights law enforcement person, uh, has already sent Berkeley

00:06:07.720 a two page letter, uh, that they need to retain all the records because there's probably going to be

00:06:14.320 a civil rights, uh, lawsuit brought against Berkeley, which by the way gets, I've heard hundreds of

00:06:21.100 millions, if not a billion dollars a year in funding from the United States government. So there are laws

00:06:27.560 that say you have to grant equal access. You can't allow a heckler's feet veto to go forward. You

00:06:33.640 experience a heckler's veto. In other words, that people were actually in the venue trying to shout you

00:06:38.600 down. Uh, none of the people that were Ant, well, I can't say that because the first questioner was

00:06:46.200 claimed to be part of Antifa, but he was polite. Uh, nobody in the venue shouted anyone down. They

00:06:54.980 were predominantly, uh, Charlie Kirk and TPUSA and supporters and Christians, but people outside the

00:07:02.240 venue did everything they could to prevent people from getting in quick pause to tell you about our

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00:08:30.060 Okay, we have, um, we have lots of video that has been playing or will be playing as you're

00:08:38.620 describing all of this, but there's one video I just want people to see the cruelty of some of

00:08:44.240 these demonstrators. Okay. So for people who can't understand, they're saying F, you're dead,

00:09:11.960 homie. So talking about Charlie Kirk, so cursing Charlie Kirk and celebrating his death. And they're 0.77

00:09:18.420 talking about fascism. They've got the communist symbol, the hammer and the sickle. Um, and then,

00:09:24.280 of course, there's all this footage of them being actually violent. I know Chloe Cole was there. She 0.55

00:09:30.080 is a detransitioner and just like a wonderful advocate for biological reality. She was in attendance

00:09:36.640 and she asked one of the police officers, Hey, like, can you escort me out of this crowd and out

00:09:42.460 of the car? And the police officer just rolled her eyes at her and said, you'll be fine. And

00:09:48.560 apparently the police officers, I just heard from anecdotes, they really were not interested in

00:09:54.140 helping Turning Point and helping you guys and kind of just said, ah, it's free speech. These people

00:10:00.120 can do what they want. It's like, they didn't want to prevent violence. I think that's probably what's

00:10:06.480 going to happen. Uh, when we get to the court case, people are going to realize that's exactly right.

00:10:12.940 Isn't it ironic, Allie, that these people who say they're fighting for inclusion, tolerance,

00:10:18.080 and diversity would not, will not include you and will not tolerate you for holding a diverse view.

00:10:22.660 Right. And they claim that we are the fascists when Allie, I mean, if irony could kill, they'd be dead

00:10:32.500 already. Yeah. Okay. Because they're the ones that are the fascists using force to try and shut up 0.90

00:10:41.120 people that disagree with them and using force to beat up people who are for free speech. I mean,

00:10:48.200 they always call Charlie Kirk a fascist. Yeah. We all know that a fascist tactic is to tell

00:10:55.100 your opponent to come to the front of the line. Let me give you the microphone so you can freely

00:11:00.120 make your case. That's what fascists do, Allie, of course. Yeah. Fascists definitely want a limited

00:11:05.300 government and want the people to have the right to keep in bare arms and love free speech and love

00:11:12.840 freedom of religious expression. That's a telltale sign of fascism. Yeah. It's,

00:11:17.940 it's crazy. Okay. And, um, yeah, I think so much of it is demonically influenced where we're fighting

00:11:24.840 against principalities and powers that are supernatural in nature. Uh, and some of these

00:11:32.980 people, I mean, I'm sure people have already seen the, uh, gentleman who was beaten up wearing the red

00:11:39.700 freedom shirt because it turns out, it appears now that the guy who did that, I mean, you can't make

00:11:46.820 this stuff up alley. The guy's first name is Jihad. You can't make this up. And he goes to a mosque 1.00

00:11:54.700 apparently in Oakland and he was trying to hide his face. He's some kind of rapper. He's got some

00:11:59.800 odd name, but his first name is Jihad. I don't have it in front of me. And he was arrested. And so was

00:12:05.000 the guy he beat up and the guy he beat up was let go. He was arrested. And of course he's already out

00:12:09.920 on bail. Right. Of course. Uh, so Jihad tried to, he tried to pull the, the cross off this gentleman's

00:12:18.380 neck who was wearing the red freedom t-shirt and a fight ensued. And, uh, they both were arrested,

00:12:25.220 but of course he's already out on bail. By the way, meanwhile, uh, that day, just before, uh, the event,

00:12:32.000 I had lunch with a friend of mine who is a pro life sidewalk counselor. His name is Don Blythe.

00:12:37.400 Great guy. He's out in Modesto. He came to San Francisco to have lunch with me. And, uh, he was

00:12:43.620 arrested on San Jose States, uh, campus not long ago, even though it was an illegal arrest. And he told

00:12:52.240 me this, I haven't checked this out myself, but he said in San Jose, now you're supposed to book

00:12:57.720 yourself. You have to book yourself. Yeah, I know. I know. It's crazy out there. And can we talk about

00:13:08.800 the purpose of government for a minute? Yes. You know what? I actually, I'm, we're going to get into

00:13:14.080 that because I saw that your article in Fox news, but can I ask you, well, a couple of things I want

00:13:20.240 to ask you a theological, another theological question, and then we can get into the purpose

00:13:24.900 of government and capital punishment. But I do want to play this clip of you from UC Berkeley,

00:13:30.520 um, sharing the gospel. So God gives us free choice. The problem is we can use our free choice

00:13:36.020 to do evil like the shooter did, but can any good come from that? The Bible talks a lot about this.

00:13:43.520 We don't have time to get all the details, but the Bible talks about the fact that

00:13:48.900 testing produces patience and patience produces character and tribulation leads to hope.

00:14:01.120 And it says all things work together for good to those that love God and are called according to

00:14:05.960 his purpose to be conformed to the image of his son. Doesn't say all things are good. There's a lot of

00:14:12.740 evil things out there, but according to God, good things can come from evil, especially to people

00:14:19.040 who are called according to his purpose. And one of the ways that you become more like Jesus is

00:14:25.180 through evil, man. If you get everything you want, every time you don't become like Jesus,

00:14:28.760 you become a me monster. What was the response in the room when you were sharing this biblical truth? 0.77

00:14:35.700 The response was very positive. The people that got in were courageous supporters of TPUSA.

00:14:41.880 I suspect most of them are Christians, but I wasn't sure. So I wanted to make sure I gave them 1.00

00:14:47.100 Charlie's number one message, my number one message, your number one message, the Bible's number one

00:14:53.500 message. And that is we're all sinners. We all need a savior. We can't save ourselves. That there's

00:14:59.820 only two things you're going to get in the afterlife. You're either going to get justice or you're going

00:15:03.380 to get grace. And I don't want justice from an infinite being. Neither do you. Neither does anybody

00:15:08.440 watching. Neither did anybody at UC Berkeley. And the only way we can avoid infinite justice

00:15:14.740 is the God of infinite grace who takes justice upon himself, takes our punishment upon himself. And

00:15:21.280 then by trusting in him, we're not only forgiven, but given his righteousness. So that's the only

00:15:25.960 message I wanted to get across at the memorial. That's the only real message I wanted to get across

00:15:30.120 to the folks there at UC Berkeley, other than the question of if God, why evil? We dealt with that

00:15:36.100 in my 20 minute talk as well. Yeah, that's so good. I'm so glad that you're doing that series

00:15:40.780 right now. And then the other question that I had, and maybe this will lead us into the purpose

00:15:46.580 of the government, something that I know in all of these, you know, Antifa protesters, which Charlie

00:15:53.440 talked about so much before he died, from what I understand, even privately to people in the

00:15:57.560 government saying, look, we got to break up these left wing terror cells. They're serious. They're

00:16:02.300 inflicting violence. And that was something that he pushed hard for that those of us who care about

00:16:06.960 his legacy should also be focusing on that, especially those with the power to do it in the

00:16:11.520 government. But what is it about communism? I see this hammer and sickle. I see these people who say

00:16:17.460 they want equality. They want peace. They want everyone to be taken care of. And they say they're

00:16:21.600 fighting against poverty. Why always, every single time you see those mantras and those symbols,

00:16:28.000 do you see such violence and ugliness and godlessness? Like, why do those things go hand in hand?

00:16:37.280 You know, it's interesting, Allie. Our mutual friend, James Lindsay, is a agnostic atheist.

00:16:45.820 And about a year before Charlie died, he texted Charlie and he said, Charlie, I'm starting to believe in

00:16:52.980 Satan. Because I'm looking at the history of communism in the 20th century, where communist

00:17:01.660 governments killed probably 100 million of their own people, communist governments. And so Charlie 0.73

00:17:11.320 texted him back, if Satan, then God. And James texted back, that would follow. In other words,

00:17:22.300 it's the point that if there's evil, there has to be good, because evil is not a thing in itself.

00:17:27.080 It's a lack in a good thing. It's like cancer. You know, if you take all the cancer out of a good

00:17:31.500 body, you got a better body. But what happens if you take all the body out of the cancer?

00:17:35.160 Yeah. You got nothing, right? It doesn't exist on its own. And I say that because the history of

00:17:43.220 communism is so poor that only an intellectual could defend it. Okay. I think Thomas Sowell said that.

00:17:51.540 Mm-hmm.

00:17:53.300 Communism and atheism go hand in hand. Why? Well, because in atheism and communism,

00:18:00.840 the state is eternal and the individual is expendable. The individual is not eternal.

00:18:07.380 In Christianity, the state is not eternal. The individual is. And so we have to have protections

00:18:14.860 for the individual against the despotic government. That's what our Bill of Rights is all about.

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00:19:29.360 On that note, let's talk about the purpose of the government. What is the purpose of the government?

00:19:35.060 Well, biblically and logically, just reasonably, the purpose of the government is to protect innocent

00:19:40.280 people from evil by punishing wrongdoers. And that is what Paul talks about in Romans chapter 13.

00:19:47.280 And of course, it's mentioned also in Genesis chapter 9. If we had no government, wrongdoers

00:19:53.240 would run rampant just like they did almost rampant at UC Berkeley. We need a force to protect

00:20:03.040 innocent people from evil and to punish wrongdoers. And when governments cease to do that,

00:20:09.020 they cease to become legitimate governments. That's why our founders in the Declaration of

00:20:14.180 Independence listed a long list of abuses that King George had committed against them. And so they

00:20:22.700 said, if the government won't secure our rights, we have a right to a new government. And the real

00:20:28.920 founder of our Constitution was James Madison, who said, if men were angels, no government would be

00:20:36.100 necessary. I mean, if you think about the fact that human beings are not angels, but if we were, would

00:20:43.400 we need a government? We wouldn't need a government at all. We'd always treat people well. There's no 0.51

00:20:48.240 reason to have an outside force prevent evil because nobody would be doing evil and there'd be no wrongdoing

00:20:55.080 to be punished. But since we are fallen and we do need a savior, we need a government to protect

00:21:03.400 innocent people from evil. And this is where your book, toxic empathy is so important because people

00:21:08.960 think they think one sidedly and you will explain it better than me. So I want you to take it from

00:21:15.620 here, Ali, because you explain the fact that people don't see both sides of an issue and they wind up

00:21:23.300 supporting the criminal rather than the victim. Can you unpack that for us? Sure. Yes. The media does

00:21:31.540 this very well and there are so many examples of this, but in my book, I go through the five subjects

00:21:37.900 where we see the media use empathy by hoisting up a particular victim to get you to draw the progressive

00:21:45.340 conclusion about something. For example, when it comes to abortion, NPR told this terrible story of

00:21:52.340 this woman named Samantha who was pregnant and she found out at 20 weeks that her baby had this fatal

00:21:58.320 fetal anomaly wouldn't live long after birth. And so how NPR tells this story is that to her horror,

00:22:07.780 she found out that in the state of Texas, she couldn't get an abortion. That's what she wanted. 1.00

00:22:13.060 And so she was forced to carry this pregnancy. She was forced to bear the financial burden of delivery

00:22:19.360 and burying her child. She was forced to go through this emotional distress because she wasn't given a

00:22:24.740 choice because of this cruel, draconian Texas law. So it's all told from the perspective of the mother

00:22:31.180 as the victim in this situation. Never are we told what an abortion entails. Never are we told about

00:22:38.520 this child that she got to be delivered, that she got to be held, that she got to be named, that she got to

00:22:44.060 be kissed and loved and cared for and then buried like the human being that she is. They don't talk about

00:22:51.200 what would have happened if abortion had been allowed. She would have been poisoned, dismembered, 1.00

00:22:55.960 thrown away like toxic waste. It was all from the perspective of the pain of the mother who was

00:23:01.820 forced to carry this child to term. So at the end of it, you see all the comments on Instagram

00:23:07.460 on this particular post too. Everyone's incensed. Everyone feels so deeply for this mother. Everyone

00:23:14.120 feels so much empathy for this mother that they draw the conclusion that NPR and Washington Post and all of

00:23:20.040 these outlets want them to draw, which is these pro-life laws are cruel because look at the pain

00:23:25.280 that it causes. This is true when they tell stories about an illegal alien, when they tell the story 0.93

00:23:29.740 about the man who feels he was caught and trapped in the wrong body, when they talk about, oh, this

00:23:34.840 person just wants to love who they want to love, or, oh, this criminal had such a hard upbringing.

00:23:40.260 When you focus on their stories, you forget that, okay, well, if I support the policy that this outlet

00:23:45.560 wants me to support, well, then babies die, then women and girls don't get private spaces, 1.00

00:23:51.360 then children don't have both a mom and a dad, and then there are a bunch of victims of this person

00:23:56.840 being let out of jail. In economics, that's called the second order of fact. People don't think about

00:24:01.960 the second order of fact of their first decision. And when you're powered by empathy to make a decision,

00:24:07.480 you are blinded to the victim on the other side of the moral equation.

00:24:11.300 Especially when that victim is never brought up. Right. Or the victim is told that that victim,

00:24:20.580 particularly in the pro-life issue, isn't really a person. Right. So that's so well said. And I know 0.91

00:24:26.840 your listeners, if they haven't gotten toxic empathy yet, they need to get it. Because this is the

00:24:32.300 problem. In fact, I was just looking at a Twitter feed. Elon Musk put this out today, Ali. Someone asked

00:24:39.740 the question, what is the greatest problem facing humanity? And he said, it's interesting to read

00:24:44.940 all the responses in the Twitter feed. But one of them that popped up was from Sad,

00:24:50.600 Glad, I think his name is. Gad Sad, I think. Yeah. He's a professor up in Canada. And he calls it

00:24:57.020 suicidal empathy. Right. Right. Which is similar to, you know, toxic empathy. That people just can't

00:25:03.120 think about both sides of an issue. They get on one side and they advocate for that one side,

00:25:08.600 not realizing the victims on the other side are there. And they're, they're been propagandized to

00:25:17.600 think they're thinking the right way about an issue. And in fact, they're thinking exactly the wrong way

00:25:22.800 about an issue. Yeah. And it's so important. And the whole immigration thing is, is a big example of

00:25:29.560 this. They'll, they'll have some sob story about an immigrant and you'll go, well, we're supposed to

00:25:35.080 bring in the immigrant. Of course. Yes. Okay. But then they'll use that sob story and they will not 0.99

00:25:41.840 talk about the 300,000 girls that have been sex trafficked. Probably they're missing in our country 1.00

00:25:47.400 right now during the Biden administration. They will not talk about the hundred thousand people who

00:25:52.340 have died from fentanyl overdoses. They will not talk about the terrorists that came across the

00:25:59.340 border. They will not talk about all of the bad things that have occurred from having an open

00:26:06.420 border. They won't talk about the fact that housing prices are up because there's such a demand for

00:26:12.700 housing now with more immigrants or that wages are suppressed because there are more immigrants,

00:26:17.620 illegal immigrants. They will not talk about the cost to the taxpayer on law enforcement, nor will they 0.99

00:26:23.760 talk about all the money that is going to illegal aliens that is putting us further in debt.

00:26:29.340 Nor will they talk about the fact that part of the shutdown, which has brought pain to a lot of

00:26:34.400 people, was brought forth by Democrats in order to get illegal aliens health care. They won't talk about 0.94

00:26:40.640 any of this because they have this toxic empathy on one side. And I always tell people, look, you, you believe

00:26:48.720 in borders. Do you have a lock on your door? Right. Do you have a password on your bank account? Why don't you

00:26:53.260 just give anybody the password to your bank account? How come you haven't done that? It's not because you

00:26:58.840 hate people on the outside. It's because you love people on the inside and you have a responsibility

00:27:03.620 to take care of your family. As Paul said, if you don't take care of your family, you're worse than an

00:27:08.720 unbeliever. And I love, sorry, I'm rambling here. I'm filibustering now. No, but I love what Vice President

00:27:15.360 Vance said over in Europe back in February. He started talking about Augustine's order of love. Do you remember that,

00:27:23.040 Ellie? Yes, I do. I mean, that was any politician that talks about Augustine's order of loves gets

00:27:28.380 my vote. Yes. And that was people were scandalized or else they acted scandalized about that. And I

00:27:36.480 just, you know, it's kind of like what you were saying. They want to argue against it because in

00:27:40.380 their minds or they could say that lacks empathy. How could you say that we're not supposed to love

00:27:44.520 these other people? But of course, that's how they order their own lives. No one can love everyone

00:27:50.160 equally. It's impossible for us to do that. And we weren't meant to. I mean, God is a God of order.

00:27:56.980 He actually created these systems for us to have order to our lives. He placed us not in a jungle.

00:28:03.800 He placed us in a garden and told us to work and to keep it. From the very beginning, there's a

00:28:08.240 systematized way of doing things that God does not for his sake, but for our good, because we are

00:28:14.000 orderly beings made in his image and families and countries and laws and governments and punishments

00:28:19.400 and rewards are all part of that. That people, they're gifts of common grace that people need

00:28:25.220 to survive and thrive. And people get that, as you said, on the micro level, because they all order

00:28:30.100 their lives that way. They love their kids more. They feed their kids more. They don't let anyone into

00:28:34.320 their house to steal their food. That doesn't make them a loving neighbor. That makes them a bad parent.

00:28:38.620 But when it comes to politics, when it comes to just zooming out a little bit, they don't apply the same

00:28:45.820 standard that they apply to their own lives. And they call us bigots for doing so. And yeah, it can be

00:28:52.940 really hard to rationalize with that. Well, you can't rationalize with the irrational. In fact, we were

00:28:59.440 talking backstage, me, Rob Schneider, Peter Boghossian was there. That was a surprise to me. I don't know

00:29:04.880 Peter, but he's an atheist, but he is trying to save Western civilization because he realizes that

00:29:13.840 the woke left is aligned with the militant Islam faction. And those two forces together will destroy 0.95

00:29:22.960 Western civilization. And so we were talking about the fact that some people think that you can reason

00:29:31.900 with people that don't want to be reasoned with. Yeah. I mean, Jesus himself said, don't cast your

00:29:37.320 pearls before swine or else they'll trample you to death. Yeah. Rob Schneider was on Fox and Friends

00:29:43.640 talking about this after the event. I was on before the event. And Rob was saying that the people inside

00:29:52.040 the arena, some of them didn't agree with us, but we had civil conversations. And that's how you have a

00:29:59.200 democracy or a republic, which is what we have, a representative republic. You exchange ideas and

00:30:05.320 you have free speech. The folks on the outside, Antifa and all the protesters, they didn't want to

00:30:10.560 have free speech. They didn't want to have a debate. They wanted to cancel the debate. And so it's not

00:30:17.500 hard to see who is for civilization and who is against it. And let me say one other thing, because I want to

00:30:24.820 make sure we're not guilty of what the left does. I'm not saying everybody that has leftist views

00:30:33.180 isn't for free speech. We need to treat people as individuals. You can have leftist views and be

00:30:41.580 wrong about certain things and right about other things. And I'm not going to say that everybody on

00:30:46.400 the left agrees with Antifa. That's not the case. However, when we look at the surveys and when we look

00:30:53.260 at the actual facts on the ground at these sites, Ali, the surveys show that political violence is

00:31:01.380 predominantly coming from the left. A third of college students think it's okay to use violence

00:31:08.520 against people who are uttering things you don't agree with, where only 3% of very conservative people

00:31:16.600 think that. A quarter to a third of very liberal students think, oh no, that's just fine.

00:31:23.260 Mm-hmm. And I mean, we did just see in the state of Virginia that Jay Jones, who had said that he

00:31:31.480 hopes that his political opponents get murdered and that his political opponent's wife holds their 0.93

00:31:38.400 murdered children as they die. That is the kind of tragedy that he wanted to inflict on his political

00:31:44.840 enemies. And he won. He won. And the governor who endorsed him won. And so again, that doesn't mean

00:31:51.380 that every Democrat in the state of Virginia said, yes, I love that. But not enough of them

00:31:56.920 didn't love it. Not enough of them hated it in order for him to lose. And it should have been a very

00:32:03.340 easy loss. But we're in a different age. We're in a very different age than we were even 10 to 20 years

00:32:10.520 ago. Yeah, we are. Rob Schneider the other night put it this way. He said, we're in a cold civil war,

00:32:17.980 which I hope doesn't turn into a hot civil war. But the people who say they're fighting for inclusion,

00:32:25.860 tolerance, and diversity will not include and will not tolerate you for holding a diverse view.

00:32:30.160 Unless the government comes in and ensures that people like me and you and others that are trying to speak

00:32:38.700 freely have that right on college campuses, there's not a lot of hope moving forward.

00:32:44.440 Yeah. Speaking of the government, you wrote an article or you argued for the death penalty for Charlie Kirk's

00:32:51.500 killer. We've talked about the death penalty a lot on this show. That is probably one of the things that I get the

00:32:58.200 most pushback on for being pro-death penalty post-due process in principle because of biblical

00:33:06.420 principles. So tell me your argument for making this statement. Well, Paul in Romans 13 talks about that

00:33:15.680 the ruler does not bear the sword for nothing to punish wrongdoers. And in his day, the sword meant

00:33:21.640 the ability to use capital punishment on a capital crime offender. And so capital punishment was

00:33:30.920 something that both the Old and the New Testament say is a legitimate form of punishment. And even Jesus

00:33:37.740 himself said that because when he's before Pilate, Ali, you remember that Ali, I mean, you remember that 0.96

00:33:44.780 a pilot said to him, to Jesus, don't you know, I have the authority to kill you? Jesus didn't say,

00:33:51.460 no, you don't. He said, you do, but you get that authority from above. What's the implication that

00:33:58.700 governments have the authority, legitimate governments have the authority to issue capital punishment for

00:34:04.540 capital crimes. And what so many pro-lifers seem not to get is that, and people even on the other side of

00:34:14.040 the issue, the pro-abortion people say, oh, you're pro-life, how could you be pro-death penalty? Well,

00:34:17.260 there's a stark difference between an innocent baby and a guilty murderer. The innocent baby has done

00:34:23.840 nothing wrong, but the guilty murderer has. And it's actually respecting life because you're saying

00:34:30.080 that you took a person made in the image of God, and the only way you can pay for that crime is for your

00:34:41.200 life to be taken, justifiably so. Now, I hope I, you know, obviously, I think that Tyler Robinson is

00:34:50.360 the true killer of Charlie Kirk. I've talked about all this Candace Owens nonsense on my own podcast,

00:34:56.960 and of course, the trial will reveal all that. But I hope that Tyler Robinson repents,

00:35:04.640 accepts Jesus, and is then executed. Yeah. Amen. I say that I support, I'm against abortion 1.00

00:35:12.360 for the death penalty and for the Second Amendment, all for the same reason, because I care about

00:35:19.820 innocent life. I don't think innocent life should be murdered. I think that there should be a just and

00:35:24.800 proportionate punishment to taking innocent life purposely, which Genesis 9-6 says is taking of the

00:35:31.760 murderer's life, and then because I believe that innocent life should also be protected. So people

00:35:37.820 say that there's an inconsistency, but it's actually the same reason for all of them, that people are

00:35:42.200 made in God's image. We matter a lot, and that innocent people need to be protected and not be

00:35:47.360 murdered. People try to overcomplicate that, but it's really not complicated. Exactly. And if the

00:35:54.020 Christian worldview is true, and it is, Allie, people don't really die, they just change locations.

00:35:58.400 Yeah. They go from this life to the next life. And it's not up to us when that happens, except

00:36:04.800 a legitimate government does have the right to either take the life of a guilty murderer or in

00:36:13.080 a just war, and individuals have the right to take life in self-defense. The commandment does not say

00:36:20.140 thou shall not kill, it says thou shall not murder. And so many people don't seem to understand that.

00:36:25.740 There's a difference. There's a difference. Not all killing is sin, clearly, since there are times

00:36:30.760 that God commands his people to kill, as you said, in a just and justified way.

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00:37:53.180 Well, you brought up Candace Owens. You said that you talked about it on your podcast.

00:37:57.680 Could you tell us if people haven't watched what you have already said, what is your take? You know,

00:38:04.000 her proponents say, well, she's the only one seeking truth. She's the only one really investigating.

00:38:08.300 She's trying to figure this out. And then of course, her detractors say, well,

00:38:11.940 this sounds like a conspiracy theory and she's airing out preexisting grievances in the name of 1.00

00:38:18.020 investigation. And she could be hurting a lot of people in the process. So how should we think

00:38:23.120 about this? Let me ask you this, Allie. Suppose I were to say that I think Candace Owens is the real

00:38:29.120 killer. And I think the reason she's the real killer is she was upset that Charlie stopped inviting

00:38:35.500 her to the big events. And what she decided to do was have him taken out. So Turning Point USA would not

00:38:46.840 only pay for what they did to her, they would look at her as maybe someone who could succeed Charlie.

00:38:55.100 And then she would be the president. And she's insinuating all sorts of other possibilities in 0.99

00:39:05.900 order to prevent her from being found out as the true killer. You would go, Frank, you are crazy. 1.00

00:39:15.380 And yeah, I would be crazy to suggest that. It's a possibility though, isn't it? 0.98

00:39:21.220 It's a possibility, Allie. I mean, anything's possible, but do I have evidence for it? I have

00:39:29.980 zero evidence for it. And I would never want anybody to send Candace Owens death threats

00:39:39.720 because I'm pushing a possibility without evidence. But you know what? That's what Candace Owens has done 1.00

00:39:45.640 to others. My friend, Mikey McCoy is getting death threats. I'm getting emails saying, you never know

00:39:51.380 what could happen to you. You ought to repent. It's one thing to ask questions. It's another thing

00:39:58.800 to present or to insinuate that someone is guilty because you've put a web of possibilities together

00:40:06.520 without any evidence that says that what you're saying is true. And I know there are a lot of

00:40:15.260 unanswered questions about this particular murder and there, there should be. Now, why should there

00:40:23.000 be? I had my friend Jay Warner Wallace, the cold case homicide detective on the show about five weeks

00:40:28.560 ago, a couple of weeks after the murder. And Jim has been a part of several homicide investigations

00:40:35.360 and prosecutions. And here's his main point. The prosecution is never going to tell the public

00:40:42.200 anything they don't need to tell them. The prosecution's goal is to convict the real killer,

00:40:48.700 not quell conspiracy theories. Why? Well, let's put it this way, Ali. If the FBI is right now

00:40:59.840 investigating a second shooter with regard to the Charlie Kirk murder, they're not going to tell the

00:41:06.900 public. Why? Because if they tell the public and then someone comes forward and says, oh, I saw the

00:41:12.760 second shooter. They don't really know if that guy really saw the second shooter or that guy's just

00:41:22.660 trying to make a name for himself and trying to get attention for himself. They have to keep their

00:41:26.880 cards close to the vest. Also, they don't want to taint the jury pool. Also, they don't want to tip off

00:41:32.940 the defense. Prosecutions rarely reveal what they have. They will, though, check into security. I should

00:41:41.680 say conspiracy theories privately. How do I know? Because they checked into me. I don't know if you

00:41:47.380 saw this stupid, the stupid guy in the white hat. He's signaling the killer for Charlie Kirk. I didn't 1.00

00:41:55.080 even know about that for the first 30 hours. When I got back to Phoenix after the murder, this was

00:42:01.080 yeah, this was Thursday afternoon. It happened Wednesday about noon. When I finally got back to

00:42:10.680 Phoenix after J.D. Vance came and picked up Charlie on Air Force Two, my wife picked me up and said, 0.75

00:42:19.640 do you know that you're the subject of a conspiracy theory? I said, what? What are you talking about?

00:42:23.440 She told me a whole story about the guy in the white hat. Yeah. No, no, Allie, I'm still getting

00:42:29.080 people online saying you're a part of this. And not from Candace. That particular one wasn't from

00:42:35.260 Candace, just from other people. And this is just an example, though, of when people imply things or

00:42:41.220 say things about you, it has a real consequence on your life. Yes. And it's so stupid. Like,

00:42:48.000 why would anybody looking through a scope from 200 yards need somebody 25 feet from Charlie,

00:42:54.580 Charlie in a white hat to tell the shooter, hey, Charlie's over there. He's the one with the microphone

00:43:01.540 under the tent. Why would I mean, he couldn't even see me anyway, if he's looking through his scope.

00:43:07.120 Right. It makes no sense at all. Yet people still believe this. Yeah. And so the FBI actually called

00:43:14.480 me, Allie. And we just have to ask you the question. Were you signaling the shooter? You know,

00:43:20.400 he said, you know, I know this is kind of ridiculous, but I have to ask you, why do they have to ask me?

00:43:25.940 Because what's the defense going to do? Did you check into the guy in the white hat? Did you check into

00:43:30.800 the second shooter? Did you check into this? Did you check into that? And the FBI is going to do all

00:43:35.640 that. Why? Because if they want a real conviction, they don't want any holes in the case, but they're

00:43:41.220 not going to broadcast to the world. We checked into that. We checked into this. Yeah. So would it be

00:43:46.680 plausible to say that someone who is positing the guilt of, you know, all of these other people,

00:43:52.880 people at Turning Point, Mikey McCoy, I believe that the statement was that he acted weird after Charlie

00:43:59.920 died. That was the accusation. And also that he was planning to be some kind of successor, which I

00:44:08.160 don't see any evidence for any of that. And I just think how painful it must be to be someone who was

00:44:13.600 close to Charlie, who watched him die, you too, and be swept up and like, oh, possibly like, were you

00:44:20.160 involved in this? But so would it be plausible to say that making all of those statements publicly,

00:44:25.980 someone with a platform doing that could help the defense and hurt the prosecution?

00:44:31.060 Yeah, of course it could. Look, Candace has a right to ask any questions she wants. I think 1.00

00:44:36.620 she crosses a line, an ethical line, not a free speech line, an ethical line when she is insinuating

00:44:43.940 people are guilty without evidence. You know what one of her pieces of evidence was? She had a dream.

00:44:49.400 Charlie came to her in a dream and told her he had been betrayed. 0.97

00:44:51.920 Hey, Allie, do you think Charlie Kirk was such a dunce that he hired people around him that were 0.97

00:45:02.620 not loyal to him? Doesn't seem like the Charlie that I knew. You really think that's possible? 0.81

00:45:07.460 One of the smartest people ever. Yes. I mean, do you think Charlie was such a bad judge of character

00:45:15.940 that he hired people that would turn on him and were secretly scheming against him? I don't have

00:45:24.520 enough faith to believe that. I mean, that takes a lot more faith than believing that some kid who had

00:45:33.880 been radicalized by leftist ideology and was in relationship with a trans person took Charlie out

00:45:42.140 because that's the best evidence we have at this point. Now, all the evidence has not come to bear.

00:45:47.500 By the way, Allie, do you think that the parents of Tyler Robinson, if he was not guilty,

00:45:55.680 would be making a stink about this if he was innocent? Have you heard a word from the parents?

00:46:04.080 No, the parents were the ones that turned him in.

00:46:06.080 I mean, this is like the reverse Occam's razor. You know, Occam's razor says that probably it says

00:46:16.640 don't multiply causes beyond necessity. Probably the simplest explanation is the true explanation,

00:46:23.600 but we need to wait for the trial for all the evidence to come forward. If there's some conspiracy

00:46:28.480 going on there, don't you think that Charlie's friends, Cash Patel and Dan Bongino are going to get

00:46:33.580 to the bottom of it. I might be more skeptical if it was the Biden AG, but these are the friends of

00:46:39.820 Charlie. Charlie had Cash Patel's cell phone and Dan Bongino's. He had everyone's cell phone, Allie. We

00:46:47.400 know that. I mean, he was one of the most well-connected persons among Christians and among politicians

00:46:53.440 ever. And he was 31 years old. This man was not betrayed by people closest to him.

00:47:03.580 Yeah. That's not the answer.

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00:48:01.440 Allie.

00:48:06.740 Can we talk about Mikey for a second?

00:48:08.920 Sure.

00:48:11.580 Mikey, I just love that man. 23 years old and I was 24.

00:48:16.540 So young. I didn't realize he was that young.

00:48:18.540 Such a servant. Just a servant. Me and Mikey and Charlie were having dinner in Phoenix in May.

00:48:27.820 And Charlie had to go up to use the restroom. I said, Mikey, you know, Charlie couldn't do much

00:48:32.860 of what he does without you. He said, it's just my honor to serve him. And why did Mikey immediately

00:48:40.400 get on his phone? Candace Owens said, you know, there are three possibilities. You know, when you're

00:48:45.940 struck with a tragedy, number one is you run from it. Number two, you run toward it. Or number three,

00:48:51.880 you freeze. And Mikey did neither of that. Mikey immediately got on his phone. Well, first of all,

00:48:57.960 let me suggest this. There's nothing normal about an abnormal situation. Nobody knows how they're

00:49:06.540 going to react in an abnormal traumatic situation. The only reason I did what I did was because I knew

00:49:13.880 what I would do beforehand because I had thought about it. Because I always was afraid somebody

00:49:19.100 was going to take a shot at Charlie. And I said, look, if I'm there, I got to do something, if I can,

00:49:24.760 anything to try and save them. And so that's why I got in the car. You know what Mikey had been told

00:49:32.200 over and over again by Charlie? If anything happens to me, the first thing you do is you call Erica.

00:49:39.320 Get her on the phone immediately. Now, Erica was in Phoenix. We were in Utah.

00:49:48.880 Mikey did the emergency procedure. That's what you're supposed to do. And anybody in the military

00:49:55.040 or law enforcement knows what I'm talking about. I was in the Navy for eight years. You think about

00:49:59.720 all this stuff before it happens. So when it happens, you don't have to think. You just do what

00:50:06.140 you're supposed to do. What sense would it make for Mikey to run to Charlie when his security team,

00:50:13.660 six guys were already on him. Well, four guys were on him. There are two more there.

00:50:18.860 Right. They were already, they were right there. He would have just gotten in the way.

00:50:24.640 He knew what he had to do and he did it. Yeah. And you know, I don't have any special insight,

00:50:30.040 but I assumed that that thing, as you said, had been rehearsed. And as you said, had been talked

00:50:35.260 about. And Erica said on Fox news to Jesse waters that Mikey called her and said, get the kids,

00:50:42.320 get security. This just happened. And so if that's not what happened or people saying that Erica is

00:50:49.760 lying, like that would be the implication there that she's not telling the truth. Um, and so I just,

00:50:56.200 I really feel for him and the implication that,

00:51:00.040 you know, he was promised to be Charlie's successor and that's why he's speaking at

00:51:04.320 Liberty university again, no evidence of that. I mean, Mikey's not hosting Charlie's show. I don't

00:51:11.020 see like Mikey doing a bunch of interviews out there being like, I'm good. I haven't seen him

00:51:15.980 at a campus stop. He hasn't been on any, like doing any of these debates. There've been a lot of us,

00:51:21.940 you, me, a lot of other people who were in this circle, who have been asked to go to this speaking

00:51:28.320 engagement or go to this campus stop or fill in or do this interview or, or things like that.

00:51:34.600 Not, you know, to take anyone's place, but just because, you know, we're trying to fill in for a

00:51:40.200 friend, but I haven't seen any evidence of Mikey stepping into any realm. I've seen him continue to

00:51:47.040 serve. And so again, I just don't see the proof. And I think it matters a whole lot to put someone,

00:51:53.840 you know, in, in the crosshairs by implying that somehow they were involved in this. That's like

00:51:59.880 a really, really hefty claim to make. Yeah. And it's causing dissension among the brothers

00:52:05.920 and, um, you know, who's urging him to step in more. I am because I think the kid is gifted

00:52:14.120 and I've tried to have several, um, mentoring sessions with him, like I had with Charlie

00:52:19.920 and he just can't do it yet. He just can't. I mean, we, we, we've tried to do it and he,

00:52:25.200 he's just, he's, he's in mourning and he's, yeah. And he's trying to hold it together. I mean,

00:52:30.960 he's a strong kid, but he's a kid. He's 24. Yeah. And, uh, I mean, he, he has the demeanor

00:52:37.560 and the intellect to go once he's trained onto a college campus and be a very attractive

00:52:46.040 ambassador for Jesus. And so I hope at some point he does, but I would bet my life

00:52:53.180 on Mikey McCoy. He did not, he had nothing to do with this. And yet you should see the horrific

00:53:00.680 things people are saying about him. Yeah, man. It's very sad, Allie. It is very sad. And again,

00:53:07.300 Candace, ask as many questions as you want, but don't insinuate people are guilty without evidence.

00:53:13.120 A dream is not evidence. Yeah. Okay. You're not a prophet. Okay. God didn't come to you in a dream.

00:53:23.540 And neither, you know, secret sources also aren't evidence because when something is not verifiable,

00:53:29.560 you know, I've thought a lot about the Kafka trap and it was something that we talked about that you

00:53:34.680 could probably explain way better than me, but we talked about this a lot in 2020 of this Kafka trap, 0.93

00:53:41.720 which is, um, you're a racist. And if you deny that you're a racist, you just prove more that

00:53:47.880 you're a racist. And, um, that's kind of what I see a lot with that, that you're guilty or you're

00:53:54.660 part of this and you're only denying it because you are being paid off because you're under pressure.

00:54:01.360 Like you, the only reason you would disagree with me is if you are guilty or you're propping up the

00:54:06.620 guilty or something like that. Well, that becomes this non-falsifiable thing.

00:54:11.780 You know, it reminds me, sorry, it reminds me of an old Monty Python sketch. I think it was from

00:54:17.540 the life of Brian, where is this guy, Brian is mistaken to be the Messiah. And, uh, so the people

00:54:25.640 are saying, you know, you're the Messiah, right? You're the Messiah, right? And he goes, no, I'm not

00:54:30.180 the Messiah. I'm not the Messiah. Yes, you are. You're the Messiah. You're the Messiah. And they keep

00:54:33.160 harassing me. He finds us, okay, I'm the Messiah. And they go, he is the Messiah. You know, it doesn't

00:54:37.940 matter what you say. They are, their conclusion is already made. Whether you affirm it or deny it,

00:54:46.220 they're going to find evidence for their position, what they think is evidence, but it really isn't.

00:54:51.020 That's what's going on here. It doesn't matter what you say, what you deny, what you affirm,

00:54:56.020 the conclusion is preloaded into their investigation. And that's not how you find truth. You don't have

00:55:02.320 your conclusion already, uh, established before you look at the evidence.

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00:56:14.540 Man, you mentioned those mentorship sessions that you would have with Charlie. You've talked about that

00:56:19.120 publicly, going on walks with him. Can you tell us just a little bit more about some of the conversations

00:56:26.920 that you had with him, the ones that you're willing to share before he died? You know, like where his heart

00:56:33.260 was, the questions that he was asking, what was he seeking the Lord about?

00:56:38.840 Yeah, I'll try and do this without getting emotional because it had to do with you, actually.

00:56:42.240 We were

00:56:43.600 on September 8th.

00:56:47.940 The murder occurred on September 10th. So this is

00:56:50.180 Monday night, September 8th.

00:56:53.220 And

00:56:53.660 Charlie had just gotten back from

00:56:56.200 a trip to

00:56:58.040 Japan and Korea

00:57:00.140 and he flew in on, he got home

00:57:02.400 on Sunday night the 7th and

00:57:03.980 I got into Phoenix Sunday night the 7th.

00:57:07.240 And so he said,

00:57:08.360 let's have some, we had prearranged

00:57:10.460 just a month before that I would be there when he got,

00:57:13.000 he got, he landed.

00:57:14.760 And so on Monday he said,

00:57:16.700 okay, we got to meet and, you know, we got to,

00:57:18.620 we got to do some sessions.

00:57:19.460 So Monday during the day we got together in his office

00:57:22.300 and we went through some issues and

00:57:24.120 of course he was tired, had to take a nap

00:57:26.840 and, you know, I hadn't seen

00:57:28.040 Eric and the kids for a couple of days.

00:57:30.160 He said, okay, I'm going to go have dinner with Eric and the kids.

00:57:33.260 Can we do a walk tonight?

00:57:35.060 Because we would go on these walks.

00:57:36.340 I'd been in Phoenix,

00:57:37.420 this was the fourth time this summer

00:57:39.560 to, to do these sessions.

00:57:42.620 And so, yeah, let's go to,

00:57:44.780 let's do a walk after dinner.

00:57:46.140 So we would go on these long walks after dark,

00:57:50.140 always with about a 300 pound

00:57:51.960 armed bodyguard behind us.

00:57:53.780 Yeah.

00:57:54.720 And he would be 10 to 15 feet behind us

00:57:57.840 as we walked.

00:57:58.880 And there were three issues

00:58:00.300 that we discussed that he wanted to discuss.

00:58:02.120 So again, Charlie, what do you want to talk about?

00:58:03.340 Let's talk about, right?

00:58:04.080 First issue was Islam 0.96

00:58:05.940 because he, like all rational people,

00:58:10.280 understand that macro Islam

00:58:13.720 is a problem for Western civilization. 0.81

00:58:17.120 Not micro Islam. 0.97

00:58:18.600 You know, there are many nice Muslims

00:58:19.920 who don't believe in jihad

00:58:21.680 or they still believe in freedom of speech

00:58:23.940 and freedom of religion and all that.

00:58:25.820 But macro Islam, 0.72

00:58:27.680 the idea that Islam,

00:58:30.660 which means submission,

00:58:31.500 is really a political ideology

00:58:33.800 that is inconsistent with the first amendment

00:58:36.180 to the United States constitution

00:58:37.640 and inconsistent with freedom of speech

00:58:39.820 and freedom of religion

00:58:40.580 and all these things.

00:58:41.960 And so we talked a lot about that.

00:58:43.860 The next issue he wanted to talk about

00:58:45.640 was the resurrection.

00:58:46.760 How do we convince young people

00:58:48.920 of the two facts I always talk about?

00:58:51.700 You only need to establish two facts

00:58:53.080 to show that mere Christianity is true. 0.99

00:58:54.860 One is God exists.

00:58:55.960 The second is Jesus rose from the dead.

00:58:58.540 If those two facts are true,

00:58:59.960 Christianity is true.

00:59:00.840 I mean, you can show from that point

00:59:02.320 that the Bible is the word of God.

00:59:03.720 Okay?

00:59:04.160 So we talked a lot about that.

00:59:05.780 But then the third issue,

00:59:07.340 which we probably spent

00:59:08.380 the most amount of time on, Ali,

00:59:11.440 Charlie was trying to figure out

00:59:13.880 how could he get his generation 1.00

00:59:17.080 to embrace marriage and childbearing,

00:59:20.700 embrace the family.

00:59:22.520 And he saw that many men

00:59:24.560 were embracing it.

00:59:26.300 In fact, the surveys show that

00:59:28.780 among Trump voters anyway,

00:59:31.400 the number one goal of young men

00:59:32.800 was to get married and have kids.

00:59:35.340 But for Trump voters who were women, 1.00

00:59:39.320 it was like number six on their list.

00:59:41.260 And for Harris voters,

00:59:43.120 it was like at the bottom almost

00:59:44.400 of their list.

00:59:45.120 And Charlie was trying to figure out

00:59:49.760 how could we move people

00:59:53.780 toward a pro-family, pro-child position.

00:59:58.600 And he said,

00:59:59.680 you know,

01:00:00.080 a lot of ladies probably 1.00

01:00:01.640 aren't going to listen to me,

01:00:02.680 unfortunately.

01:00:03.520 I'm a man.

01:00:04.320 What do I know about being a mom

01:00:06.500 and all this?

01:00:07.260 And, you know,

01:00:08.700 he would think that's kind of sexist

01:00:11.200 to have that view,

01:00:12.120 but still,

01:00:13.580 you're not a woman. 1.00

01:00:15.080 You don't know what it's like.

01:00:16.520 So he said,

01:00:18.060 how do I find women 1.00

01:00:20.740 who can make this case?

01:00:22.380 And your name came up.

01:00:25.860 So he was talking about

01:00:28.120 the work you're doing

01:00:29.040 and how important that is

01:00:30.560 to get women 0.99

01:00:32.840 more desirable

01:00:36.180 of marriage and family.

01:00:38.580 And to be honest,

01:00:39.680 he said,

01:00:40.300 that can even be a problem for you

01:00:42.500 to convince them.

01:00:44.700 Because although you're a mom,

01:00:47.100 you have a platform,

01:00:48.800 right?

01:00:49.400 And some people may look at you

01:00:50.440 and go,

01:00:50.740 well,

01:00:51.080 Allie's not just a mom.

01:00:52.580 She has a platform too,

01:00:53.900 you know?

01:00:55.320 And so we didn't totally

01:00:58.180 solve the issue,

01:00:59.200 but your name

01:01:00.180 was the name

01:01:00.820 that came up.

01:01:02.060 How do we get women 1.00

01:01:04.280 to follow what Allie's

01:01:05.540 talking about?

01:01:07.220 And that was...

01:01:10.200 Wow.

01:01:11.760 Well, Charlie...

01:01:13.800 36 hours later,

01:01:15.320 he was dead.

01:01:17.320 Wow.

01:01:19.160 Charlie was such a champion

01:01:20.580 of so many of us

01:01:23.780 and I just feel,

01:01:25.200 I mean,

01:01:25.620 you've got to feel

01:01:26.440 incredibly blessed

01:01:28.540 to have those moments

01:01:29.700 with him

01:01:30.120 that so few people had.

01:01:32.680 And I'm blessed

01:01:33.940 that he just,

01:01:34.720 you know,

01:01:35.060 would give me advice

01:01:36.100 and say,

01:01:36.620 I'm praying for you.

01:01:38.080 Keep going.

01:01:39.200 Gave me advice,

01:01:40.260 certainly before the Jubilee debate

01:01:41.820 and was so generous

01:01:43.080 just like with his time

01:01:44.440 and effort

01:01:45.060 and like,

01:01:46.180 he just wasn't

01:01:46.840 the kind of person

01:01:47.640 that said,

01:01:48.780 oh,

01:01:48.940 what can I get

01:01:49.780 out of this person?

01:01:50.720 I'm only going to text

01:01:51.820 the powerful

01:01:52.560 because honestly,

01:01:53.520 there were very few people

01:01:55.020 who could give Charlie

01:01:56.220 anything he didn't

01:01:57.140 already have.

01:01:58.120 He had the connections.

01:01:59.560 He had the political capital.

01:02:01.060 He had the relationships.

01:02:02.160 He had the fame.

01:02:02.920 He had the money.

01:02:04.040 There weren't very many people

01:02:05.400 who could do that

01:02:06.100 and he could have

01:02:06.780 very easily said,

01:02:07.940 I don't need,

01:02:09.720 I don't,

01:02:10.040 I don't,

01:02:10.300 who do I need?

01:02:11.440 You know?

01:02:12.380 But he was so humble.

01:02:13.680 People don't really,

01:02:14.620 I feel like,

01:02:15.720 appreciate that about him.

01:02:17.080 He was just very humble

01:02:18.440 and really sought

01:02:19.800 the expertise

01:02:20.540 and insight

01:02:21.140 and wisdom

01:02:21.640 of other people

01:02:22.680 while championing them

01:02:24.160 at the same time.

01:02:25.600 He was just a very,

01:02:26.640 very unique person.

01:02:27.980 He did.

01:02:28.660 That's why I said

01:02:29.500 at the memorial,

01:02:30.240 you know,

01:02:30.400 it could be hard

01:02:31.020 to mentor somebody

01:02:31.900 smarter than you

01:02:32.780 but not with Charlie Kirk

01:02:34.080 because the only thing

01:02:35.040 that exceeded his intellect

01:02:36.320 was his humility.

01:02:38.180 Yeah.

01:02:38.280 The few things that I knew

01:02:39.540 that he didn't know,

01:02:40.260 he wanted to know.

01:02:41.480 Yeah.

01:02:42.000 And one thing he said,

01:02:45.140 I don't know,

01:02:45.460 maybe a year ago

01:02:46.320 and I was very sensitive

01:02:48.040 to this

01:02:48.560 because I know people,

01:02:50.200 especially like him

01:02:51.300 and his position,

01:02:52.060 he said,

01:02:54.380 one of the problems

01:02:56.660 is everybody

01:02:57.760 wants something from you.

01:03:00.540 Everybody wants something.

01:03:01.980 That's why,

01:03:03.000 and I know that,

01:03:04.560 I know that

01:03:05.180 when you get to that level,

01:03:06.800 you don't really know

01:03:07.940 who your friend is

01:03:08.860 or are they just,

01:03:10.520 do they just want

01:03:11.260 something from you?

01:03:13.280 And so I made it my goal

01:03:16.540 not to really ask him

01:03:17.800 for anything

01:03:18.420 because I didn't,

01:03:19.500 I just wanted him

01:03:20.340 to succeed.

01:03:21.680 Right.

01:03:22.060 In fact,

01:03:23.280 I've been doing training,

01:03:25.620 trying to train people

01:03:26.520 to do what he does.

01:03:28.380 It's so hard

01:03:29.300 to find people,

01:03:30.240 Allie.

01:03:30.740 It's so hard.

01:03:32.120 I said to him,

01:03:32.900 I said,

01:03:33.220 I've been waiting

01:03:33.620 for you for 30 years.

01:03:34.900 Yeah.

01:03:35.940 You know,

01:03:37.360 there are very few people

01:03:38.720 that can go

01:03:39.820 to a college campus

01:03:40.860 and answer questions,

01:03:43.900 any question.

01:03:44.860 Oh, yeah.

01:03:45.260 And you can do it.

01:03:47.680 Elisa Childers can do it.

01:03:49.840 Natasha Crane can do it.

01:03:52.060 A few others can do it.

01:03:54.660 You know,

01:03:55.060 people that have been

01:03:55.700 in this a while,

01:03:56.520 Jay Warner Wallace,

01:03:57.200 Greg Kokel,

01:03:57.840 yeah,

01:03:57.980 they can all do it.

01:03:58.760 But finding young people,

01:04:01.480 I mean,

01:04:01.800 you're a blessing,

01:04:02.720 Allie.

01:04:03.360 You're,

01:04:03.540 you're,

01:04:05.280 anything I can do

01:04:08.760 to help you.

01:04:09.280 Well,

01:04:09.880 thank you.

01:04:11.060 And you have,

01:04:12.220 and you've helped,

01:04:13.600 I mean,

01:04:13.940 I know you know this,

01:04:14.920 but maybe you don't

01:04:15.500 think about this,

01:04:16.600 but you have helped

01:04:17.960 millions and millions

01:04:18.880 and millions of people

01:04:20.660 because of your mentorship

01:04:23.440 of Charlie.

01:04:24.260 And I know you will be humble

01:04:25.960 and say,

01:04:26.740 oh,

01:04:26.880 I didn't teach him anything

01:04:28.000 he didn't already know,

01:04:29.300 but you did.

01:04:30.380 And he would not,

01:04:31.480 he was not someone

01:04:32.640 who wasted his time.

01:04:33.760 We all know that.

01:04:34.520 And he would have never said,

01:04:37.120 oh,

01:04:37.240 I just spent all day with you.

01:04:38.500 Let's go on a walk tonight.

01:04:40.460 Unless he knew

01:04:41.780 that what you had to offer him

01:04:43.440 was so valuable

01:04:44.860 and something he needed

01:04:46.800 to give to millions

01:04:47.980 and millions of people.

01:04:49.660 And you won't even know

01:04:51.140 until the other side of eternity

01:04:52.840 when someone comes up to you

01:04:54.740 and says,

01:04:55.140 I know the gospel

01:04:56.020 because of what you said

01:04:57.360 to this person

01:04:58.220 who said this to this person

01:04:59.560 and on and on.

01:05:00.120 That's right.

01:05:01.080 So,

01:05:01.540 as you said,

01:05:03.100 there's like 10,000 people

01:05:04.520 that go into somebody's salvation.

01:05:08.120 Yeah.

01:05:08.360 And it's not just me

01:05:09.280 and you and Charlie Allie.

01:05:10.440 It's everybody watching right now.

01:05:11.920 Exactly.

01:05:13.020 Because the people watching right now,

01:05:15.220 you out there,

01:05:16.180 you're going to reach people

01:05:17.560 that Allie and I don't even know.

01:05:19.880 Yep.

01:05:20.840 We didn't,

01:05:21.360 you know,

01:05:21.700 you're going to reach them.

01:05:23.480 So you don't have to change the world.

01:05:25.080 You just need to change somebody's world.

01:05:27.620 So do whatever you can

01:05:29.220 to advance the cause of Christ,

01:05:31.460 wherever that is,

01:05:32.300 however that is.

01:05:33.320 Yeah.

01:05:34.520 With just the couple minutes

01:05:36.180 that we have left,

01:05:38.100 can you,

01:05:38.740 I mean,

01:05:39.020 you were there

01:05:39.440 when Charlie died.

01:05:40.400 You were in the car

01:05:41.160 after you knew

01:05:42.520 that he had already gone to glory

01:05:44.460 because you could see

01:05:45.420 that his eyes were open.

01:05:46.800 But as you said,

01:05:47.460 they weren't,

01:05:48.380 you know,

01:05:48.660 he was already seeing Jesus.

01:05:50.260 They were fixed.

01:05:51.060 Yeah.

01:05:52.320 Tell us how you're doing

01:05:54.980 because you have not stopped

01:05:56.360 sharing the gospel,

01:05:57.500 going on these college campuses,

01:05:58.980 going in the lion's den,

01:06:00.100 and you just lived through

01:06:01.640 what I imagine

01:06:02.400 was probably the most traumatizing

01:06:03.960 moment of your life.

01:06:06.200 Yeah.

01:06:06.580 You know,

01:06:06.880 everybody deals with it differently,

01:06:08.500 Allie.

01:06:09.120 But all the people

01:06:10.300 that were there

01:06:11.520 and all the people

01:06:12.060 that knew Charlie

01:06:12.760 will tell you the same thing.

01:06:14.360 Grief comes in waves.

01:06:16.160 Yeah.

01:06:16.920 You know,

01:06:17.280 there are days you go,

01:06:18.500 I don't know if I can go on,

01:06:19.460 you know,

01:06:19.660 not that I'm going to commit suicide,

01:06:21.000 I don't get me wrong.

01:06:21.380 I'm just like,

01:06:22.040 Right.

01:06:22.860 You don't want to get out of bed.

01:06:23.720 I don't know if I can do anything.

01:06:25.040 Yeah.

01:06:25.380 Yeah.

01:06:26.040 In another day,

01:06:26.860 you feel almost normal.

01:06:28.180 Yeah.

01:06:28.520 But it's still true.

01:06:29.440 It's two months later.

01:06:30.760 The last thing I think about

01:06:32.080 when I go to bed is Charlie.

01:06:33.320 The first thing I think about

01:06:34.320 when I wake up is Charlie.

01:06:36.220 You know.

01:06:37.460 And I normally wake up,

01:06:39.520 normally,

01:06:41.320 about 4 a.m.

01:06:42.640 and lie there for an hour and a half.

01:06:44.400 Yeah.

01:06:44.780 Maybe it's because I have

01:06:45.580 this condition known as 63, Allie.

01:06:47.960 Maybe that's it.

01:06:48.780 But, you know,

01:06:50.180 it's part of it.

01:06:53.400 Yeah.

01:06:54.300 But you just work through it.

01:06:55.480 You pray,

01:06:56.000 you talk to people,

01:06:57.420 you,

01:06:58.800 but let's,

01:06:59.300 let's,

01:06:59.600 let's,

01:06:59.880 let's,

01:07:00.320 let's not forget,

01:07:01.820 Allie,

01:07:02.100 there's 50 Charlie Kirks

01:07:03.500 murdered every day in Nigeria.

01:07:05.360 I mean,

01:07:05.580 this is,

01:07:06.600 not to belittle what happened here,

01:07:08.840 but

01:07:09.040 we don't have,

01:07:12.480 the kind of religious freedom

01:07:13.480 we have here,

01:07:14.040 we don't have around the world.

01:07:15.460 And Christians are dying all the time. 1.00

01:07:17.840 It's almost normal.

01:07:20.180 Yeah.

01:07:20.760 So,

01:07:21.440 we need to,

01:07:22.460 we need to have some courage

01:07:24.240 and move forward

01:07:25.080 regardless of what happens.

01:07:27.100 Okay.

01:07:27.580 Can I ask,

01:07:28.300 can I ask you something

01:07:29.640 at the,

01:07:30.260 just to close this out?

01:07:31.280 And I don't usually,

01:07:32.180 in my shows like this,

01:07:33.120 but can you just like,

01:07:34.180 give us a prayer

01:07:35.080 prayer for all the Christians

01:07:36.960 listening to just close out

01:07:38.840 this episode?

01:07:40.180 Yeah,

01:07:40.360 absolutely.

01:07:41.080 Father,

01:07:42.580 I thank you for Allie

01:07:43.680 and her ministry

01:07:44.280 and all the people listening

01:07:45.380 and watching.

01:07:46.400 And

01:07:46.420 we're all here

01:07:49.640 not

01:07:51.560 to just build our own kingdom,

01:07:54.960 but to build your kingdom.

01:07:56.800 We know there are many distractions.

01:07:58.640 We know there's sex, 0.88

01:07:59.400 there's money,

01:07:59.860 there's power,

01:08:00.460 there's prestige,

01:08:01.120 but all of it's going to be gone

01:08:02.940 when we're gone.

01:08:05.800 We're here

01:08:06.640 to know you

01:08:07.720 not just

01:08:09.600 intellectually,

01:08:10.900 even the demons

01:08:11.680 know you exist,

01:08:12.700 but personally.

01:08:14.900 Give us

01:08:15.720 opportunities

01:08:16.740 to know you

01:08:17.580 and to make you known.

01:08:19.700 We can just take people

01:08:21.000 in little steps,

01:08:21.800 especially now

01:08:22.400 around the holidays,

01:08:23.180 just to ask them questions

01:08:24.920 about life,

01:08:26.940 ask them questions

01:08:27.700 about how they're doing,

01:08:28.660 ask them questions about

01:08:29.780 is there anything I can pray

01:08:31.020 for you about,

01:08:31.800 ask them,

01:08:33.120 you know,

01:08:33.480 what's life all about?

01:08:35.400 Where do we go when we die?

01:08:36.580 Just move people closer to you.

01:08:40.000 Help us to do that.

01:08:41.060 That's what Jesus wants us to do.

01:08:42.940 It's what the apostles

01:08:43.700 want us to do.

01:08:44.660 It's what

01:08:45.120 Charlie devoted his life

01:08:47.060 to doing.

01:08:47.920 Yeah,

01:08:48.060 he's known for politics,

01:08:49.360 but

01:08:49.560 he said politics is peanuts

01:08:52.140 compared to the gospel.

01:08:53.960 It's important,

01:08:54.900 but it's not the most

01:08:55.620 important thing we do.

01:08:57.320 His politics

01:08:58.040 came from his theology,

01:09:00.820 not the other way around

01:09:02.040 and help that to be the case

01:09:03.620 with us as well.

01:09:05.280 I pray you'd give the people

01:09:06.540 listening and watching

01:09:07.540 opportunities.

01:09:08.400 If they don't know answers,

01:09:10.140 have them go out

01:09:10.920 and find answers.

01:09:12.520 It's all over.

01:09:13.660 There's so many places

01:09:14.560 they could go to get answers.

01:09:15.780 There's books,

01:09:16.300 there's podcasts,

01:09:17.640 there's of course

01:09:18.960 the Bible itself.

01:09:20.860 Help us to make

01:09:21.700 a difference for you.

01:09:23.260 Help us to keep this,

01:09:24.340 what appears to be

01:09:24.980 a revival going.

01:09:26.160 And we thank you

01:09:28.620 for giving us Charlie

01:09:30.540 for the years

01:09:31.180 that you gave us

01:09:32.060 and help us to carry

01:09:33.600 the torch after him

01:09:34.740 in Christ's name.

01:09:35.600 Amen.

01:09:36.100 Amen.

01:09:36.920 Thank you so much.

01:09:38.020 Everyone needs to follow

01:09:38.960 Dr. Frank Turek,

01:09:40.440 his podcast,

01:09:41.300 I Don't Have Enough Faith

01:09:42.260 to Be an Atheist.

01:09:44.080 They can follow you

01:09:44.860 on social media

01:09:45.740 to see your tour

01:09:46.680 and all of the amazing

01:09:47.580 things you say.

01:09:48.320 Thank you so much.

01:09:49.940 Thank you, Allie.

01:09:50.620 Thanks for all you're doing.

01:09:51.640 Friends,

01:09:51.960 go out and get toxic empathy

01:09:53.080 and make it happen.

01:09:53.980 Thank you.

01:09:54.520 Thank you.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - November 14, 2025

Ep 1267 ｜ Frank Turek on Charlie Kirk Investigation & UC Berkeley Chaos ｜ Dr. Frank Turek

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