Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1271 ｜ A Catholic & Protestant on the Death Penalty, Immigration & Women’s Roles ｜ Trent Horn

00:00:00.000 Before today's episode, I want to take a second to tell you about Fellowship Home Loans.

00:00:04.640 You've probably heard there's a standoff right now between Trump and the Federal Reserve.

00:00:09.420 Trump is pushing hard to bring interest rates down and get the economy moving, but Jerome

00:00:15.080 Powell's holding firm for now because inflation's still hanging around.

00:00:18.540 That means that rates could drop at any moment, and when they do, the prepared people out

00:00:23.180 there will move fast.

00:00:24.720 That's why now is the time to talk to my friends at Fellowship Home Loans.

00:00:28.520 They'll help you run the numbers, look at the full picture, and ask the honest question.

00:00:33.040 What is it going to take to get into the home your family needs right now?

00:00:38.260 Even if rates aren't ideal today, if the right home is in front of you, don't miss it.

00:00:42.280 There's a saying they love, marry the home, date the rate. 0.96

00:00:45.460 You can always refinance later.

00:00:47.560 They are doing business by the book, and they'll help you out.

00:00:50.500 They'll even give you a $500 credit at closing when you go to fellowshiphomeloans.com

00:00:55.460 slash Allie, where you can get a free consultation. 0.90

00:00:57.600 Terms apply, see site for details.

00:00:59.680 Fellowship Home Loans, Mortgage Lending by The Book, Nationwide Mortgage Bankers, DBA

00:01:03.940 Fellowship Home Loans, Equal Housing Lender, NMLS number 819382.

00:01:09.060 A group of Catholic bishops recently released a statement chastising Donald Trump for deporting

00:01:15.100 illegal immigrants, but they didn't make similar statements about other causes like abortion

00:01:19.940 or transgenderism.

00:01:21.260 Why is that?

00:01:22.140 We've got Catholic apologist Trent Horn here today to talk about this and so many other

00:01:27.260 subjects, like why are men now trending religious, but women are trending the other way?

00:01:33.700 How to defend the sanctity of life?

00:01:35.980 We also talk about the death penalty, the Catholic versus Protestant view on that.

00:01:40.480 Such an enriching and educating conversation with my friend Trent Horn.

00:01:44.240 This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers.

00:01:47.320 Go to goodranchers.com.

00:01:48.740 Use code Allie at checkout. 1.00

00:01:50.260 That's goodranchers.com, code Allie.

00:02:01.620 Trent, thanks so much for coming back to join us.

00:02:04.540 Most people probably know who you are and remember our conversation, but just in case, who are you

00:02:09.160 and what do you do?

00:02:10.020 Sure.

00:02:10.260 My name is Trent Horn.

00:02:11.200 I am a staff apologist for Catholic Answers.

00:02:13.620 I also host the Council of Trent YouTube channel, and I just want to share the faith of Jesus

00:02:19.840 Christ and his church with as many people as I can.

00:02:22.600 I want to lead people away from moral errors when it comes to sins that are killing people's

00:02:27.860 souls, like abortion or sodomy or hatred, racism, whatever it may be.

00:02:32.560 I just want to spread the gospel, and yeah, that's what I like to do.

00:02:37.240 And I can't believe it's been like a year and a half since I was here.

00:02:39.340 I know.

00:02:40.000 And last time we had a really fun debate and discussion.

00:02:43.400 I thought it was fun about Mary, and not every conversation, though, that I have with the

00:02:49.240 Catholic is a debate.

00:02:50.380 Some people, my Protestant listeners, they get angry at that, but not every conversation

00:02:55.680 has to be a debate.

00:02:56.820 Maybe there will be some disagreements today.

00:02:59.280 It's okay.

00:02:59.340 I've got Catholics who say to me, why aren't you taking out your Crusader armor, Deus 0.99

00:03:04.000 Volt, and going right in there.

00:03:06.060 I actually did a poll on my channel.

00:03:07.960 I got about 42,000 votes, and it turns out about 30% of the audience for the Council of

00:03:14.360 Trent are non-Catholic Christians.

00:03:16.700 Interesting.

00:03:17.260 Most of them being Protestant, Orthodox.

00:03:19.020 Orthodox, and I think that's great because, I mean, what I do is I want to share God's

00:03:24.200 revelation, and I think being a part of the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church is important,

00:03:28.180 but really, like, from my heart, especially right now, I've been doing apologetics publicly

00:03:32.040 for over 10 years, like 12 years, I really want to reach the people who are furthest,

00:03:38.780 the most people who are the furthest from Christ.

00:03:41.400 So, like, the very first book I did was Answering Atheism.

00:03:44.140 The second book I did was Persuasive Pro-Life.

00:03:47.000 And so it's like, sometimes I don't like it when Catholics just focus on, and it's important

00:03:51.080 theological issues, you would agree with that, between Catholics and Protestants, but there's

00:03:55.100 a lot of people out there that need to be hearing about Jesus, you know?

00:03:57.880 Yeah, and both of us, both Trent and I, have done lots of debates and discussions, have

00:04:02.180 been very clear about what we believe doctrinally, so there shouldn't be anyone who watches this

00:04:07.160 and say, oh, like, how dare you agree on all of these things?

00:04:10.980 Shouldn't you be more clear?

00:04:12.000 We've both been very clear.

00:04:13.680 But I am, I'm so interested, and you mentioned something, the Deus Volt.

00:04:18.020 I've seen that a lot.

00:04:19.760 And, you know, there's like, there's a side of that in Protestantism, too, that is kind of

00:04:24.520 like very much in that spirit.

00:04:26.280 But can you talk about what that means?

00:04:28.400 And are we seeing more, like, Catholic young men kind of with that attitude of, like, taking 0.98

00:04:33.180 up arms and, like, you know, forging a crusade?

00:04:36.320 I have noticed that maybe 20 years ago, obviously there was also the new atheism was a big thing

00:04:41.400 people were debating, but 20 or 30 years ago, like, if you brought up the issue of the Crusades,

00:04:45.960 right, that would be one where Protestants would want to just dunk on Catholics and say, 0.93

00:04:50.260 oh, this is why the Catholic Church is bad. 0.96

00:04:52.080 Look what it did during the Crusades.

00:04:53.400 But now you'll see a fair number of Protestants, people in the Reformed community, who would 1.00

00:04:58.000 say, no, this is awesome. 0.93

00:04:59.380 We need to get out there, and we need to drive out the heretics, the infidels, the apostates. 1.00

00:05:04.180 We need Christendom. 0.91

00:05:05.480 We need Christian nationalism.

00:05:07.600 And I think that there's two extremes when it comes to that.

00:05:10.660 Anything we talk about theologically, there's going to be extremes.

00:05:13.320 On the one hand, the extreme of thinking, oh, well, church and state are completely separate,

00:05:17.720 and the church should never tell the state what to do. 0.95

00:05:20.120 No, that's silly.

00:05:20.940 The church should be the conscience for the state.

00:05:23.660 But the other side of glorifying everything that happened in the Crusades, when there were

00:05:28.840 sinful excesses that occurred, it was good to liberate the Holy Land from Muslim conquerors 1.00

00:05:36.380 so that you and I can go to those sites today.

00:05:39.540 The saddest thing, when I was in Israel not too long ago, I don't know if it's still the

00:05:42.800 case, but the site of Christ's ascension is controlled by a Muslim trust.

00:05:48.200 I don't know if it's still that way, that one particular holy site was controlled by

00:05:51.820 a Muslim trust, so you don't have iconography. 0.71

00:05:54.420 It's much more restricted having worship services there, versus the other sites that are generally

00:05:59.500 controlled by Orthodox or Catholic churches, specifically the Franciscans, who were there

00:06:04.020 in the Holy Land like 800 years ago.

00:06:06.140 But yeah, so to say, but there were things that happened in the Crusades that were sinful

00:06:09.080 and awful, and then Popes, like Pope St. John Paul II, apologized for that.

00:06:14.420 So I think it's about trying to find a balance there.

00:06:16.780 But I do think there is a growing online sentiment of saying, why aren't we as Christians going

00:06:21.720 more on the offense?

00:06:23.500 And I agree, we should go on the offense, but we shouldn't be needlessly offensive when

00:06:29.680 we do it.

00:06:30.160 The only thing that should offend people...

00:06:31.720 It's a good distinction.

00:06:32.400 The only thing that people should be offended by when we speak as Christians should be the

00:06:36.960 truth we profess, not ourselves.

00:06:39.740 Right.

00:06:40.220 Oh, that's a really good distinction, because I think both of us would agree.

00:06:43.900 Like I was interviewing an attorney who fights for religious liberty yesterday, that interview

00:06:49.140 hasn't come out yet, but she was saying, look, I am claiming territory for the kingdom by

00:06:54.620 defending these constitutional rights.

00:06:56.220 And I just love that, because she said, some people seem to believe that being a Christian

00:07:01.000 is the same thing as being a doormat.

00:07:02.900 That if, say, for example, it was a young woman who she wanted at her public school parking 0.99

00:07:08.160 spot, she wanted to put a Bible verse there, and the school said no.

00:07:12.580 And of course, she enlisted First Liberty, and First Liberty said, no, that's actually a

00:07:16.900 violation of your freedom of religious expression, and they're not fairly treating you the way

00:07:22.300 that they're treating everyone else, just because you're a Christian, school back down,

00:07:25.360 and all of that.

00:07:26.580 But that is a way, of course, that's, I guess, defensive in some ways, but that is a way

00:07:31.100 for Christians to stand up and say, it's not about our personal power. 0.67

00:07:34.960 It's about defending the vulnerable people who want to exercise their Christianity well.

00:07:40.740 So I understand that sentiment of like, okay, no more being a doormat, no more just allowing

00:07:47.040 the culture to take over.

00:07:48.540 Again, it's not about me selfishly.

00:07:50.640 It's about my kids.

00:07:51.580 It's about my grandkids.

00:07:52.500 It's about the child who's being pumped with cross-sex hormones. 0.96

00:07:56.080 It's about the child that's being slaughtered in the womb.

00:07:58.640 I want to push back against darkness.

00:08:00.800 Why is it that they can do drag queen story hour in a library?

00:08:04.100 Like, I had a great idea.

00:08:05.160 I would love to get Catholic nuns who are really sweet and charming and do sister story 0.98

00:08:10.060 hour.

00:08:10.800 Catholic nun goes full habit, reading kids stories, you know, from the Bible, saint stories.

00:08:15.940 And you've got, it's an interesting thing.

00:08:18.320 Here's like, here's a person dressed in an unusual way.

00:08:21.160 I would like to see more about this.

00:08:22.380 Cause that's the hook, right?

00:08:23.140 With like drag queen story hour. 0.79

00:08:24.500 But here it's like, here's someone who's dressed and dresses in a way purposely to show that

00:08:28.320 they are, they are separated from the world and fully united themselves to Jesus Christ

00:08:32.680 to live for him alone, like in a celibate lifestyle.

00:08:34.980 I would like, well, they say, oh, that's religious.

00:08:37.160 You know, you're imposing your religion on people. 0.98

00:08:39.340 Right.

00:08:39.700 And you saying that men can be women, which is basically a religious belief because it's

00:08:43.860 rooted in just your feelings, not reality.

00:08:45.720 You can impose that religious view, which is what it is.

00:08:50.140 But I can't have a nun reading sweet stories, kids in a library. 1.00

00:08:52.900 What's going on there?

00:08:53.760 Yeah.

00:08:54.040 I think it's, it's such a pervasive belief, especially on the left, but even in what I

00:08:59.480 call like the mushy middle Christians who believe that secular liberalism is a neutral 1.00

00:09:05.400 worldview and that everything that comes from it is neutral.

00:09:08.460 And anything that opposes secularism is fascism or Christian nationalism or something like that.

00:09:14.980 Yeah.

00:09:15.400 I did an episode recently called The Four Bad Kinds of Christians, and I used two axes based 1.00

00:09:22.280 on the political compass to divide them.

00:09:24.280 Now, I'm not talking about heretics, like the theological questions.

00:09:27.280 I divided it up based on whether you believe in conforming to the world or being very anti-conformity,

00:09:33.360 and then whether you're kind of morally lax or morally rigid.

00:09:36.400 So you want to be in there, you want to balance between all those things.

00:09:39.560 But on the extremes, like if you're really trying to conform to the world, like the mushy

00:09:43.480 middle, you say you conform and morality, you know, that's not that big a deal that you're

00:09:47.120 the typical cafeteria Christian. 0.96

00:09:49.060 You want to placate the world and, you know, I don't want to, I don't want to offend people.

00:09:53.620 The other extreme to that is saying, oh, well, I'm going to rebel against everything society

00:09:57.900 thinks is good.

00:09:58.820 And I'm going to be super duper rigorous.

00:10:00.440 And you turn into kind of like a fundamentalist who requires belief in things that God didn't

00:10:06.280 even require himself that left it up for Christians to decide amongst themselves, like saying,

00:10:11.140 oh, well, if you're a Christian, you can't read Harry Potter or something like that. 0.89

00:10:14.040 Like, oh, that's kind of opened up for us to discern amongst ourselves or questions like

00:10:18.000 that, or whether you could host a podcast because you're a woman or, you know, something like 1.00

00:10:21.120 that.

00:10:22.000 So you're right.

00:10:22.700 Those are the extremes.

00:10:23.400 And I worry that the loud fundamentalist types will make people think, oh, if that's

00:10:28.560 what Christianity is, then I want to be just these easygoing cafeteria Christians that 1.00

00:10:32.740 don't offend anybody when there is a balance you can have between the two.

00:10:35.740 Quick pause to tell you about our first sponsor for the day.

00:10:43.120 It's Adele Natural Cosmetics.

00:10:45.060 Their company is rooted in 1 Peter 3, 3 through 4.

00:10:48.560 Beauty that comes from the heart, that comes from the spirit and the Holy Spirit that's

00:10:54.020 inside all of us Christians.

00:10:55.800 They make amazing products that are rooted in our worth as image bearers of God.

00:11:02.020 And Adele seeks to glorify God in all of the products that they make in everything they

00:11:06.900 do.

00:11:07.520 They're unapologetically Christian and pro-life.

00:11:10.160 I love that about them, but I truly love their products.

00:11:13.580 It's been a game changer for my skin to use their essential cleanser.

00:11:17.640 I use it every day.

00:11:19.220 I like to try all different kinds of products from different places, but this is my mainstay.

00:11:24.620 I love their moisturizer.

00:11:26.200 I love all of their products.

00:11:27.560 When I'm not in the studio, I'm wearing their cosmetics.

00:11:30.240 They go on so smoothly, really give you just like a beautiful glow, make your skin really

00:11:35.380 healthy and moisturized.

00:11:37.060 One of the best parts is that all of their ingredients are completely holistic and natural,

00:11:41.720 no synthetic fragrances or any materials that you wouldn't want on your skin.

00:11:47.040 It's all truly good for you.

00:11:48.860 And so when you support Adele Natural Cosmetics, you're making a good choice for your body,

00:11:52.600 but also for your spirit.

00:11:54.600 And you are helping a company that is trying to honor the Lord in everything they do.

00:11:58.480 So they make for great gifts, by the way, this Christmas.

00:12:01.620 Adele's biggest sale of the year is happening Black Friday weekend.

00:12:05.480 So next Friday, they're offering 30% off of everything.

00:12:08.980 So I don't even have to give you my code.

00:12:10.740 No promo code.

00:12:11.780 Their Black Friday sale is next weekend.

00:12:13.980 Make sure you check it out.

00:12:15.000 30% off everything at adelnaturalcosmetics.com.

00:12:18.120 I want to talk about that balance because we're talking about the, you know, Deus Volts and

00:12:28.600 like the, there's a form of like, I would say, and I consider myself reformed Calvinist

00:12:33.640 too, but definitely like within the Calvinist camp and the Tradcath, they kind of like link

00:12:39.020 arms in a lot of this sentiment and the belief that in order to attract men, in order to be

00:12:44.660 a masculine, muscular Christianity, it has to be offensive, not just in the truth they 1.00

00:12:49.800 speak, but in, you know, just trying to be as subversive as possible.

00:12:52.940 Well, and they use, uh, the things that I've noticed is they relish abusive, vile insults

00:12:58.960 towards people.

00:12:59.900 It's one thing to speak bluntly about the sins of others.

00:13:04.140 I mean, in Matthew 23, Jesus called the Pharisees, uh, whitewashed tombs, uh,

00:13:09.660 brood of vipers, yeah, iniquity, you know, den of thieves, things like that.

00:13:13.920 But I find that these people, uh, what they do is they'll, they'll focus on people who

00:13:18.320 disagree with them and it'll be very vile, abusive, wretched things you would never think

00:13:22.660 a Christian should say.

00:13:24.420 And completely forgetting, to my mind, both, um, radicals within Protestantism and Catholicism

00:13:30.100 who do this, I wonder, have you read the Bible?

00:13:32.220 Have you read Colossians 3, 8, let no filthy talk, uh, come, come from your mouth.

00:13:36.320 We get the same lesson in Ephesians, speak so that you can impart grace to those who

00:13:40.660 will hear it.

00:13:41.540 Like the, uh, in Timothy, Paul says that the servant of the Lord must not be quarrelsome,

00:13:46.460 but know how to dispute with opponents with kindness.

00:13:49.100 And to them, it's just, they say, oh, well, that's, I feel like if St. Paul were here today,

00:13:53.580 they would say he was a tone policing feminist. 0.91

00:13:56.000 I really believe they would say that about, about him.

00:13:58.500 And, and I, and I means, and that's personally because when, when you convert and become Catholic,

00:14:02.580 like when you're confirmed receiving the oil that strengthens you in the adulthood of your

00:14:06.440 faith, you pick a confirmation saint, like a saint name, someone you admire, you know,

00:14:12.100 ask for their prayers.

00:14:13.220 And the one I picked was Paul because I was a convert in high school. 1.00

00:14:16.620 I, you know, I thought religion was for, uh, dumb people. 0.98

00:14:20.380 I love science. 0.98

00:14:21.300 But then when I watched, uh, honestly, it was evangelicals like William Lane Craig, J.P.

00:14:25.820 Moreland.

00:14:26.240 I was like, oh, they got really good arguments.

00:14:28.360 They're smart.

00:14:28.700 They, they are.

00:14:29.840 And, and so from there and then studying the history of the early church, like I had this

00:14:33.800 radical conversion experience.

00:14:35.220 And so like, I read Acts chapter nine over, I must've read that a hundred times about Paul,

00:14:40.760 Paul's conversion.

00:14:41.620 Though what's funny is he didn't, it doesn't say he got knocked off his horse.

00:14:45.020 That's an urban legend.

00:14:45.960 We always say, oh, he got knocked off his horse.

00:14:47.400 That's from a Caravaggio painting.

00:14:48.920 It doesn't say he was riding a horse.

00:14:49.860 Oh, interesting.

00:14:50.920 It's, it's kind of like, uh, in the, um, or in the nativity, it's like the three wise men.

00:14:55.520 It doesn't say there were three of them.

00:14:56.560 That's tradition, but.

00:14:57.560 Right.

00:14:57.860 There were three gifts.

00:14:59.420 I guess they could have been five wise men and.

00:15:01.860 I'm sure they had an entourage with them.

00:15:03.340 Yeah.

00:15:03.640 Maybe so.

00:15:04.480 But my point though is like, yeah, it was, it was something that just like captivated me.

00:15:09.200 Yeah.

00:15:09.440 And so to see, yeah, I want to really strike that balance.

00:15:12.120 So that's why I think to have a masculine Christianity, you can show, be assertive, 0.80

00:15:18.380 but show kindness to others.

00:15:19.500 Like I will have a conversation with someone and I won't shrink away from saying the act of

00:15:24.440 sodomy is sinful. 1.00

00:15:25.540 Transgender identity is a mental disorder. 1.00

00:15:28.080 Abortion is homicide, the killing of a little human being. 1.00

00:15:31.560 But if I'm talking to someone who disagrees, I still want to recognize that they have

00:15:35.080 been, they're not my enemy.

00:15:36.960 The devil is.

00:15:37.800 Right.

00:15:38.000 They've been caught up in the devil's lies.

00:15:39.300 And I got to, I want to through the help of the Holy Spirit to free them.

00:15:42.500 Right.

00:15:42.840 I'm not going to free them if I'm just abusing them.

00:15:44.780 Right.

00:15:45.540 That's what I really tried to do.

00:15:47.000 And I felt the Holy Spirit helped me do it because in my flesh, I would never have.

00:15:50.180 But when I was doing that Jubilee debate, which you should do Jubilee, by the way, they need

00:15:54.280 to find a subject.

00:15:55.320 Yeah.

00:15:55.640 I sent in an application and might've got lost in the mail, but I will, I'll keep knocking

00:16:00.240 on the door, but in the word for me.

00:16:01.700 But, but yeah, I think you, you showed there.

00:16:04.060 And I think a lot of the Christians have been on Jubilee.

00:16:06.320 Um, everyone that, that I can think of, and even non-Christians like Ben Shapiro, but when

00:16:11.140 Charlie Kirk was on there, Lila was on there, it was, that is the demeanor that works.

00:16:18.900 For example, the non-Christian who was the most successful on the Jubilee podcast is Alex 0.67

00:16:23.700 O'Connor.

00:16:24.460 He's an atheist.

00:16:25.420 I haven't watched that.

00:16:26.340 Watch it.

00:16:26.900 You'll see he, uh, he, he turns a lot of the Christians into pretzels and he, but he does 1.00

00:16:32.080 it in a very, now he's British, so it already helps him come off air.

00:16:35.600 Oh, it helps you just very refined and gentlemanly and just soft and inviting.

00:16:40.140 It's just, but he does it with a very calm, cool, and collected manner.

00:16:44.940 Yeah.

00:16:45.360 And people will listen to that instead of you just being, if you're vile and abusive, I

00:16:49.540 would say, look, if someone did that to you, is that going to convert you?

00:16:52.540 Right.

00:16:53.240 Right.

00:16:53.620 So it's not going to convert them.

00:16:54.820 Yeah.

00:16:55.000 I got some criticism from that crowd.

00:16:57.560 You know, I wasn't harsh enough or I wasn't aggressive enough.

00:16:59.980 And it's always funny, you know, when people from the peanut gallery are like, they would

00:17:03.980 claim that they would have done a certain way, but I just remember going in there and

00:17:07.520 thinking, okay, I'm going to out gentleness them.

00:17:10.240 I'm going to out love them.

00:17:11.360 And truly some of them surprised me with how gentle and kind they were to me.

00:17:15.520 So I can't say I was the only one.

00:17:17.100 A lot of them were just very kind and very polite, which really set the tone.

00:17:20.840 But if you decide that you're going to be unflappable because the only person you were

00:17:26.340 trying to honor is the Lord, then that just takes a huge relief off of you that all you

00:17:31.480 have to do is tell the truth.

00:17:32.760 That's why I think it's so much simpler to be pro-life and to be, you know, pro the reality

00:17:38.260 of gender because all you have to do is tell the truth. 0.67

00:17:40.160 You're being kind, but you're not worrying about pleasing these people's feelings to say,

00:17:45.480 look, if they still take it the wrong way, that's not my problem.

00:17:48.700 Right.

00:17:48.880 I was being kind, I treated them with respect.

00:17:51.520 So that's where the extreme comes, where you do everything you can to make people happy

00:17:55.380 and be a people pleaser.

00:17:56.700 That's wrong.

00:17:57.480 But if they're still upset, odds are it's not you.

00:18:00.240 They're upset about the truth.

00:18:02.020 And so, yeah, I think that that's exactly right.

00:18:03.800 Being kind to them.

00:18:04.560 It reminds me what Paul says in the letter to the Romans, quoting back to the Proverbs,

00:18:08.140 saying that kindness to an enemy is like pouring hot coals on their head.

00:18:11.620 Like they just absolutely can't stand that.

00:18:13.260 Right.

00:18:13.760 Yeah.

00:18:14.000 Right.

00:18:14.380 Yeah.

00:18:14.600 That makes total sense.

00:18:15.700 And so like the masculine Christianity that I think a lot of people rightly crave, we don't 0.99

00:18:21.220 want like an overly feminized Christianity, but a strong, muscular Christianity pushes back

00:18:26.640 against darkness, speaks the truth in love totally boldly.

00:18:30.920 And I do think like when you talk about the Crusades, I mean, I just had someone on who

00:18:35.480 talked about that it was actually from agape love that many of those men were pushing back

00:18:40.140 against Islam and it doesn't look the same today, but there is still a responsibility 0.97

00:18:44.560 that we have.

00:18:45.660 When you see innocent people, and that's where a true masculinity is very important, that

00:18:51.760 men want to fight evil, literally with their hands, you know, and then being able to go

00:18:58.160 and do this, say, look, here are people, innocent people living in the Holy Land or being killed,

00:19:02.380 being beheaded, being enslaved.

00:19:04.500 Someone needs to do something.

00:19:05.920 And we have the same thing today.

00:19:06.760 We've got children who are being dismembered in the womb, children being dismembered outside

00:19:10.980 of the womb through so-called gender reassignment surgery, mutilation surgery, well, just mutilation 0.90

00:19:16.040 is what it is.

00:19:16.920 All of these things that are happening to say, okay, someone needs to do something when you

00:19:20.460 need to fight, but you also have to remember, hey, you gotta, you gotta fight smart.

00:19:25.080 Cause if you just go in like a bull in a China shop, you can do more damage. 0.98

00:19:28.780 You have to learn how to, um, fight in a smart way.

00:19:31.980 And I think that's good for, for Christian men, especially to lean into that and learn.

00:19:36.320 Like, for example, I've been doing a Brazilian jujitsu for about three years.

00:19:39.360 That's awesome.

00:19:40.000 Oh, it's a super fun hobby.

00:19:41.260 Yeah.

00:19:41.460 And I've met like a ton of Catholics and Protestants who also do it.

00:19:46.680 Actually, I had a dialogue with a Protestant pastor.

00:19:50.180 Uh, I went down to the gym where he trained, we rolled and fought with each other.

00:19:54.320 And then we, we, we, then we had a dialogue about baptisms.

00:19:56.600 We had a literal physical fight and a theological fight, but we can be, uh, on good terms with

00:20:02.360 each other and understand like when you learn a martial art, whether it's jujitsu, judo,

00:20:06.620 Muay Thai kickboxing, whatever, whatever it may be, you learn how you learn at the very

00:20:11.620 beginning.

00:20:11.840 If you come out, just swing in and you're just, just fighting with blood pressure and

00:20:15.880 red in your eyes, you're going to get demolished.

00:20:18.120 Yeah.

00:20:18.560 But you, but as a man, you learn to harness your strength and fight in a smart way.

00:20:22.000 And that allows you actually to defeat people that are bigger and stronger than you.

00:20:25.540 And the same thing when we're taking on our culture, they're bigger than stronger than

00:20:29.100 us in, in influence and demographics and money and funding.

00:20:32.480 So as Christians, we need to tap in, especially that masculine wanting to fight energy.

00:20:36.620 She's got to do it in a smart way.

00:20:42.460 Next sponsor is Range Leather.

00:20:45.140 The owners of Range Leather, Kyle and Bailey started this leather company from their kitchen

00:20:49.180 table in Wyoming a few years ago, and all of their products are still handcrafted there

00:20:54.540 in Wyoming.

00:20:55.380 It's all American made, so high quality.

00:20:57.960 Their stuff lasts a lifetime.

00:20:59.380 I've got multiple bags from them.

00:21:01.340 We've got custom made hats.

00:21:02.760 We've got wallets.

00:21:03.700 We've got jewelry.

00:21:04.760 I love it all.

00:21:05.520 So they came to share the arrows.

00:21:07.460 They are awesome.

00:21:08.240 Like they are such a great, relatable couple.

00:21:12.100 And I just appreciate their products so much because they make for great gifts for yourself

00:21:18.180 or for someone else, especially for the related bro in your life.

00:21:21.360 They have so many good products that he will absolutely love.

00:21:24.900 Another Christian American owned company that you want to support.

00:21:28.720 Go to Range Leather.com slash Allie. 0.91

00:21:31.320 You'll get 15% off all of their products.

00:21:34.180 That's Range Leather.com slash Allie. 0.91

00:21:41.440 Tell me, what is traditionally the Catholic view of the role of women?

00:21:46.280 I would say traditionally the Catholic view of the role of women is that women have a unique

00:21:53.000 feminine gift to offer to the church.

00:21:56.980 I would say the traditional role of lay people is to mirror the love of the Trinity, the self-giving

00:22:04.260 love of the Trinity, the Father and the Son, behold one another in perfect love, and from

00:22:09.720 their love, what proceeds from both of them is the Holy Spirit.

00:22:12.180 Okay, so we, you know, the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son.

00:22:16.340 And so we look at that Trinitarian love, and that's reflected in the sacrament of marriage.

00:22:20.600 A husband and wife fully behold one another, and they fully receive one another, and a new

00:22:26.080 person flows from their love.

00:22:28.140 And so I think the role, when we look at the role of women, it's similar to the role of men

00:22:31.660 in that for most people, they'll be called to the bond of matrimony and to build up the 0.99

00:22:37.540 domestic church.

00:22:38.820 And so both men and women play a role in that.

00:22:41.820 I would say traditionally, women would have a role within the domestic church of the 0.99

00:22:47.220 home of raising children, of bringing them up in the faith.

00:22:50.880 But women have very unique gifts to offer the body of Christ in a lot of different ways.

00:22:55.060 There have been saints throughout history, things like St. Joan of Arc, I think of St.

00:22:58.600 Catherine of Siena, for example, who told the Pope, hey, I know we're having political

00:23:03.500 instability now, and you have to flee from Rome to be in Avignon, France.

00:23:07.280 You got to get back to Rome already.

00:23:09.620 And so, and we've had wonderful doctors of the church, female Catholic scholars, people

00:23:16.800 like Blessed Eda Stein, for example, as a philosopher.

00:23:18.920 So I would say there's a preference for women to have a maternal role within the home, but 0.99

00:23:25.680 that doesn't preclude some women having special gifts to bless the body of Christ with. 0.94

00:23:32.140 Whereas though, for men are called uniquely to be in the person of Christ in a pastoral

00:23:37.960 role in the church.

00:23:39.400 It's like when Paul says, I don't want women to teach in the church. 1.00

00:23:42.240 Well, we don't want anybody to teach in the church who doesn't have the sacrament of holy

00:23:44.560 orders.

00:23:45.140 That's the priest's job.

00:23:46.720 And that is given to them because they stand, you know, they stand in the person of Christ.

00:23:51.200 And that's been a tradition for 2,000 years of the priesthood being reserved for men.

00:23:55.840 Right.

00:23:56.360 I think in principle, from the Protestant side, I agree with all of that.

00:24:00.360 And I think about, you know, my good Catholic friends like Lila and Liz and Isabel Brown is

00:24:04.680 that, you know, we all agree on that, that our priority is a special and unique role that

00:24:11.060 we have as moms and as wives that no one else can fill. 0.95

00:24:15.080 And none of us aspire to be a priest or a pastor or take a role in the church that we

00:24:20.560 are not called to have because I trust the Lord and I see his just like beauty and his

00:24:25.380 design of our bodies and of marriage and how the church reflects that so well.

00:24:30.860 But also that many women have been given the gift of gab, have been given the gift of speaking

00:24:36.680 and that we can channel that in certain ways to glorify him.

00:24:39.860 I do believe that women can have a place in the public sphere. 1.00

00:24:43.780 It doesn't look or sound, shouldn't look or sound the same as men, but there are women 0.98

00:24:47.940 who are called to teach women.

00:24:49.160 And the idea that for women to be in the public sphere, they have to ape or copy men, that's 1.00

00:24:53.380 feminism. 1.00

00:24:54.080 Right.

00:24:54.420 And that's wrong.

00:24:55.380 Yeah.

00:24:55.540 For women to be successful, they have to act and be just like men. 1.00

00:24:59.900 And that's not the case.

00:25:01.160 I'll give you an example of women benefiting the church. 0.97

00:25:03.260 So my friend, Stephanie Gray Connors is, I would say, probably one of the best pro-life

00:25:10.260 apologists in the world.

00:25:11.780 I have seen her debate and take apart pro-abortion philosophers, abortionists in debates.

00:25:18.640 And she does it in a uniquely feminine way where she's very kind about it.

00:25:23.600 And people just are so enthralled with her kindness as she philosophically turns the knife

00:25:27.960 into the guy and just eviscerates their argument.

00:25:31.300 I have met her before.

00:25:32.460 Yeah.

00:25:32.860 So now she has retired from that to be a mother to her young children.

00:25:40.580 But I've told her, like, if I ever couldn't do a debate, like my first backup, like if

00:25:45.420 someone had to fill in for me for a pro-life debate, it would be her. 0.52

00:25:47.960 Yeah.

00:25:48.340 Because she has that unique gift.

00:25:50.980 And I can see it as even superior to many other men I know who argue on abortion.

00:25:54.800 And I'm not going to downplay the gift she had in doing pro-life apologetics just because

00:26:01.000 she's a woman, because she's been blessed with it.

00:26:03.560 You know, the church and the world at large benefit more from it.

00:26:07.020 So I think women who have these authentic gifts, we should find ways for them to do that. 0.99

00:26:11.360 And Pope St. John Paul II, and really since in the past few decades, popes have said that

00:26:16.420 women should be given equality, but also an equality that recognizes their unique roles. 1.00

00:26:21.920 So having flexibility to care for children, having work arrangements that be able to prioritize

00:26:26.700 them in the home.

00:26:28.280 Pope St. John Paul II talked about the need for a new kind of feminism.

00:26:31.460 That was in his encyclical, The Gift of Life.

00:26:35.320 I don't like the word feminism. 1.00

00:26:37.320 Right, me neither.

00:26:38.160 But I just think it's a toxic word that doesn't help at all.

00:26:42.460 I just think that, look, treat men and women as having equal dignity and having unique gifts

00:26:48.380 that really do build up the kingdom.

00:26:50.400 Yeah.

00:26:50.680 Okay, speaking of wives and moms, how is your wife doing? 1.00

00:26:54.540 I know she had a cancer diagnosis not too long ago.

00:26:57.220 How is that going?

00:26:58.680 Well, so she, yeah, she had a, all we knew is that there was some kind of tumor inside 0.91

00:27:03.980 of her brain.

00:27:04.400 What's funny is for a long time, she'd always feel like, I feel like there's something not

00:27:06.560 right in my head.

00:27:08.240 And we were like, that's just having kids.

00:27:09.980 You know, you think like kids are driving you crazy.

00:27:12.060 Like you kids are making my head hurt.

00:27:13.860 It's like, oh, actually.

00:27:14.920 And sometimes the body just feels weird.

00:27:16.660 Yeah, exactly.

00:27:17.180 So, and then we went and we went and got, we went to do typical, you know, parents with

00:27:24.800 young kids date.

00:27:25.700 Our date was we went to a free study and we got to go out for four hours and they pay

00:27:30.080 us 400 bucks and do an MRI and ask us questions and get tacos after.

00:27:35.120 Like, okay, that's what millennial parents do when they go on a date.

00:27:38.280 And then they called us back a few weeks and they told her like, Hey, we saw something

00:27:40.940 weird in your MRI.

00:27:41.840 Should I go in?

00:27:43.260 And I was just so insufferably optimistic.

00:27:45.160 I was like, it's probably a smudge.

00:27:46.800 I don't think it's anything.

00:27:48.460 And then you find out it's a tumor.

00:27:50.400 You don't know exactly what it is.

00:27:51.760 Right.

00:27:52.340 And we made the decision just to go in and have it removed.

00:27:54.420 That's always like, do you, you know, do you fiddle around in the brain or not?

00:27:57.900 Because if you wait, what if it gets worse, but things can go wrong in brain surgery.

00:28:01.660 Now we knew it's in her speech center and she's a, she's a funny chatty little gal. 1.00

00:28:05.420 That's what I've always, uh, that was the first thing that just like check the boxes

00:28:09.100 for me knowing that like, you know, Oh yeah, this is, this is the person that's right for

00:28:13.100 me.

00:28:13.800 Um, and so she did that back in July. 0.99

00:28:16.160 It was a, I mean, that first month, um, she could barely speak.

00:28:21.060 We went on a walk and she could only walk her brain surgery.

00:28:23.580 Yes.

00:28:23.920 Cause it was in her speech center.

00:28:25.060 So they had to take parts of that out.

00:28:26.500 So we would walk down the road on a walk.

00:28:29.460 She'd walk me like a hundred feet and I'd point to things and say, what's that?

00:28:32.980 Like a squirrel.

00:28:33.700 And she's like, that's a banana. 1.00

00:28:35.420 I mean, but in her head, she knows it's squirrel.

00:28:37.400 She knew she just couldn't say it.

00:28:38.480 Couldn't say it.

00:28:39.160 Wow.

00:28:39.420 That's so frustrating.

00:28:40.340 So she had, she had, she had aphasia.

00:28:42.680 Uh, and this usually happens to older people who are suffering from the degeneration of the 0.99

00:28:48.720 brain where they try to say words, but they can't get the right word out.

00:28:53.000 Or they say nonsense words that they think it sounds right to them, but you and I can't

00:28:57.560 understand them.

00:28:58.200 Yeah.

00:28:58.480 So she had that, but, but she's really, really improved.

00:29:02.000 In three months, she went from saying squirrels or banana to now it's just kind of like a

00:29:06.260 light stutter if she's nervous.

00:29:08.080 Okay.

00:29:08.640 Um, but it's hard, you know, you get tired, you get, um, and things that, you know, women 1.00

00:29:12.900 deal with.

00:29:13.340 She, I was great.

00:29:13.900 She had another thing also for, um, benefits.

00:29:17.340 She had a, uh, female neurosurgeon. 0.95

00:29:20.120 The male neurosurgeons were too nervous to do it.

00:29:23.000 Really?

00:29:23.520 Well, it's, it's, they were like, I'd rather do watch and wait.

00:29:25.900 I don't know if I want to do this particular one, but she's, and she's world-class.

00:29:30.220 She went in there, got it out perfectly.

00:29:33.060 And when they did the follow-up MRI scan, couldn't see anything else in there.

00:29:37.880 We got a scan saying that it was a very, very low, basically there's a kind of brain

00:29:43.240 tumor that comes up in 3% of cases.

00:29:45.420 That's the best kind you could get.

00:29:46.780 Oh, good.

00:29:47.440 And she got that one.

00:29:48.340 Wow.

00:29:48.780 And you can only find that out by doing an autopsy later on the little stuff.

00:29:51.700 Uh, but she had, you know, she had a female brain surgeon that did it really well. 1.00

00:29:55.480 And because her surgeon was a woman, she made certain, you know, I'm not going to shave 1.00

00:29:58.720 your whole head.

00:29:59.600 Yeah.

00:30:00.000 I know that's a, that's a big deal for him.

00:30:01.420 I'm not, I'll just be able to do it, do a little bit here.

00:30:03.920 But even then, you know, it's still hard for women. 1.00

00:30:05.560 She told me, if you tell Allie Bestuck, you tell her, I want her hair. 1.00

00:30:08.700 I just want it as like a wig.

00:30:11.040 You, you were Lila Rose.

00:30:12.600 She's like, she'd keep it long.

00:30:13.420 Oh yeah, Lila has amazing hair. 0.99

00:30:14.460 So she would just, uh, like that, but yeah, so she's, um, she's a, she's a real soldier.

00:30:19.280 She's really, I'm so glad that she's improving.

00:30:21.880 I've heard that recovery from brain cancer, it just saps your energy for a really long

00:30:25.960 time.

00:30:26.620 Yeah.

00:30:26.900 She's, she still gets tired. 0.85

00:30:28.260 She gets lightheaded.

00:30:29.400 And we have a five-year-old, an eight-year-old and a 10-year-old, all boys.

00:30:33.520 Oh my goodness.

00:30:34.320 I don't know if I realized you had all boys.

00:30:36.000 Wow.

00:30:36.440 Dude, I love it.

00:30:37.260 Yeah.

00:30:37.540 It is.

00:30:38.180 So fun.

00:30:38.400 We have three girls, so. 1.00

00:30:40.180 That's what, what is so funny.

00:30:41.340 So Laura only has sisters. 0.99

00:30:43.060 Yeah.

00:30:43.500 So our household is very foreign to her.

00:30:45.700 Yeah.

00:30:45.900 She didn't grow up with brothers.

00:30:46.900 Right.

00:30:47.360 Totally different.

00:30:48.140 But our household is, is lightsabers, uh, X-Men and Batman cartoons, wrestling, jujitsu.

00:30:55.460 Like I'm excited for the boys to be like big teenagers to give me some pushback.

00:30:58.800 My goal to do jujitsu is I want to be that I have to be like 70 when they can finally overpower

00:31:05.180 me.

00:31:05.460 That's a good goal.

00:31:06.520 That's my goal that even when they're adults, like now grandpa's still got some moves.

00:31:09.660 Yeah.

00:31:10.200 So, but yeah, the prayers are appreciated.

00:31:12.220 Yes.

00:31:12.400 We'll be praying for her just full recovery, that her energy will be restored very quickly.

00:31:16.600 So thanks for sharing about that.

00:31:18.640 Of course.

00:31:23.220 All right.

00:31:24.020 One of my very favorite America family owned God loving companies out there is Good Ranchers.

00:31:30.780 I've been telling you about them for over five years and we rely on them almost every single

00:31:36.000 night in the Stucky home for high quality American meat.

00:31:39.920 We love their better than organic chicken.

00:31:42.060 It's a great source of protein that our kids will actually eat.

00:31:45.660 They've got seed oil free chicken nuggets.

00:31:47.520 That's a new addition.

00:31:48.680 That is incredible.

00:31:50.140 They've got bacon.

00:31:51.480 They've got seafood.

00:31:52.840 If that's your thing, they've got all different cuts of steak.

00:31:55.280 We use their ground beef multiple times a week.

00:31:58.520 It is all so good.

00:32:00.620 And it's actually from an American farmer ranch.

00:32:03.040 Unlike the vast majority of meat that you're going to find in the grocery store.

00:32:06.640 It's also just a time saver.

00:32:08.360 You order your box of meat.

00:32:09.640 You subscribe.

00:32:10.780 Shows up at your front door every month on dry ice.

00:32:14.500 It's so good to have a freezer full of meat.

00:32:16.460 You feel fully prepared, but you also don't have to waste time at the grocery store making

00:32:19.960 sure you're getting the right quality, the right cut of meat and all of that.

00:32:23.220 Just cut all of that out.

00:32:24.460 Make your life easier and healthier.

00:32:26.600 Right now, if you use my code Allie, you'll get $100 off your first three orders.

00:32:30.880 That's goodranchers.com slash Allie code Allie.

00:32:33.400 Allie code Allie code Allie. 0.98

00:33:03.400 About immigration and rebuking immigration raids.

00:33:07.100 So we can't play the entirety of the five-minute clip.

00:33:09.580 Trent did see it before, so we know the context.

00:33:11.840 But here's part of that.

00:33:12.940 It's not six.

00:33:14.100 As pastors, we, the bishops of the United States, are bound to our people by ties of

00:33:20.040 communion and compassion in our Lord Jesus Christ.

00:33:23.400 And we are disturbed when we see among our people a climate of fear and anxiety around

00:33:29.140 questions of profiling and immigration enforcement.

00:33:32.500 We are saddened by the state of contemporary debate and the vivification of immigrants. 0.99

00:33:39.020 We are concerned about the conditions in detention centers and the lack of access to pastoral care.

00:33:45.920 We lament that some immigrants in the United States have arbitrarily lost their legal status.

00:33:52.060 We are troubled by threats against the sanctity of houses of worship and the special nature of hospitals and schools.

00:33:59.240 We are grieved when we meet parents who fear being detained when taking their children to school

00:34:05.560 or when we try to console family members who have already been separated from their loved ones.

00:34:13.820 Okay, so that was kind of long, but I wanted people to see as much context as we could.

00:34:18.700 What are your initial thoughts on that?

00:34:21.020 It's a mixed bag.

00:34:22.240 Yeah.

00:34:22.740 I mean, I think the Catholic Church, its teaching that you find in the catechism is a very moderate

00:34:28.400 and a sensible position on immigration, that you have to balance, there are two rights.

00:34:33.640 So there is the right of a nation to be a nation, to secure its borders and regulate who resides within those borders and who does not.

00:34:43.760 That if you don't have borders, you don't have a nation, okay?

00:34:47.180 On the flip side, though, there is the right of migrants to pursue safety and security for their families,

00:34:55.600 which may involve having to go to another country to seek safety,

00:34:59.320 especially when they're fleeing things like genocide, ethnic cleansing, war, dire extreme poverty, things like that.

00:35:06.960 So those must always be balanced.

00:35:09.500 And the catechism says that the prosperous nations, to the extent they are able—qualifier there—should welcome immigrants.

00:35:18.140 But that immigrants, when they're welcome, they have a duty to assimilate into the culture that accepts them

00:35:23.860 and to respect their host country where they now reside.

00:35:27.760 So I think a lot of times we err in these policies when we focus on one end of it rather than all of it.

00:35:35.600 And I saw the whole video of what the bishop said.

00:35:39.100 A few things pop out at me.

00:35:40.600 One, I don't like a little bit of equivocation on the word immigrant.

00:35:44.040 If you notice in that episode, in the longer clip, they just talk about immigrant over and over and over again.

00:35:48.320 But we really need to distinguish immigrants from illegal immigrants, those who enter a country and break the law in doing so, 1.00

00:35:57.740 which would be applied everywhere.

00:36:00.540 If I try to go to Australia, for example, for—they've got a good health care system there.

00:36:05.240 There's people who do that.

00:36:06.020 I watched a whole documentary on it.

00:36:08.020 They'll grill you to make sure you're not sneaking into the country to do that.

00:36:10.560 And if they see you're doing it, they're going to send you on another flight out of the country.

00:36:15.140 So I think that we should make that distinction.

00:36:17.980 And what the bishop is doing here, we as Catholics, would call prudential judgments.

00:36:22.380 Prudence is trying to use reason to get to the good. 1.00

00:36:25.920 So how do we get that?

00:36:27.340 How do we balance all of this?

00:36:28.940 And prudential judgments that bishops, even the pope makes, a Catholic could reasonably disagree with those judgments.

00:36:35.820 They should give them respect, but you could reasonably disagree.

00:36:38.220 So there's things they said that I do agree with.

00:36:40.360 I think that there's some rhetoric about immigrants that dehumanizes them, that is harsh or cruel.

00:36:46.120 In some ways, even illegal immigrants are treated.

00:36:48.920 Even if you're a criminal, it doesn't mean you lose your dignity.

00:36:51.320 So if you're kept in a detention center—there was an article I read the other day saying there was a prison in Florida.

00:36:55.620 The heat index said it was 119 degrees for the inmates there.

00:36:59.020 Like, even if you're a criminal, you should not be subject to conditions where your life and safety are in danger.

00:37:04.740 It's basically torture.

00:37:05.400 Exactly, yeah.

00:37:05.880 People shouldn't be tortured, shouldn't be dehumanized.

00:37:08.420 You also have rights to other things, not just a right to, like, you know, food, water, basic climate control.

00:37:13.300 You also have the right, even as a criminal, to religious expression, like being able to see a priest for receiving communion or confession or to be baptized.

00:37:23.180 I think Protestants can even agree with this.

00:37:25.120 Like, a pastor, if there's a prisoner who says, hey, I want to see a pastor and be baptized, yeah, you shouldn't be like, no, you can't come in and do that.

00:37:32.340 So those things that the bishops have protested, I say, yeah, those are legitimate problems.

00:37:36.020 But other things I am, I think you'd agree with me on this, I am suspicious that I see the bishops all gathered together to make videos like this, but I don't remember a video like this when Joe Biden was implementing an anti-life abortion regime.

00:37:52.800 Right.

00:37:53.520 And even more hypocritical, frankly, when under President Obama there were higher deportation rates than under President Trump. 0.87

00:38:02.380 I don't remember the bishops making videos like this. 0.82

00:38:04.940 So it screams of a kind of partisan favoritism when that stuff happens.

00:38:09.900 I don't like it.

00:38:10.500 Yeah.

00:38:10.720 We see the same thing with Protestants who, for example, okay, when the George Floyd incident happened, I don't think the uproar would have been as loud if Biden had been president.

00:38:21.820 But it was kind of a perfect storm of things because it was all of that happened and it was an election year in which, you know, Joe Biden was running against Trump.

00:38:31.620 And people had gone a little cuckoo being locked in their homes.

00:38:35.140 I do believe that was a part of people.

00:38:36.840 They want any excuse to get out and let their craziness out.

00:38:40.020 Yeah.

00:38:40.420 And they did.

00:38:41.220 And so we see a lot of Protestants do this, that suddenly their justice muscle is very strong when Trump is in office.

00:38:48.940 And it's very weak when Trump is out of office.

00:38:51.960 And it's almost just a way, and I know this is kind of overused, but to virtue signal against Trump.

00:38:57.200 But it's not something that they're interested in talking about when Trump is not in office.

00:39:00.900 And same thing with abortion. 1.00

00:39:02.220 Same thing when it comes to gender.

00:39:04.600 They're not as incensed about that as they are about something that they can use against Donald Trump.

00:39:10.120 Yeah, and I think that for any Christian, including Christians, conservatives, people on the political right, we have to be aware of that as well.

00:39:17.080 We don't want to be tribalistic.

00:39:18.640 Yeah, that's true.

00:39:19.580 We want to put Christ first.

00:39:22.640 We want to put the faith first.

00:39:24.700 And if you start making excuses for your guys in power, that's the problem.

00:39:29.880 So I had people who were critical of me when I was pointing out the problem of President Trump wanting to expand in vitro fertilization in the name of pro-life and having babies.

00:39:40.260 There's lots of other things we could do to help people have babies.

00:39:42.080 We could do something about deregulation to increase the housing supply so people can buy a decent starter home and have their kids.

00:39:49.460 Let's start there.

00:39:50.520 Not a process where human embryos, many of them are intentionally discarded and killed or kept in frozen storage or whatever.

00:39:59.280 Let's not.

00:40:00.080 Why are we doing that?

00:40:01.620 That's certainly not pro-life.

00:40:03.260 And I'm not going to make excuses just because a president who supports it has been helpful in other pro-life things.

00:40:07.600 Everybody has to be held to count.

00:40:09.540 Yeah, agree with that.

00:40:12.080 Next sponsor is 7 Weeks Coffee.

00:40:18.820 7 Weeks Coffee is America's pro-life coffee company.

00:40:21.880 They're called 7 Weeks because it's 7 Weeks gestation.

00:40:24.900 That baby inside the womb is just the size of a coffee bean, yet he or she is fully valuable, made in God's image.

00:40:30.680 And therefore, we have to do everything we do to protect that baby, to make sure that we are loving the mom, giving the mom all the resources necessary,

00:40:40.420 so she can make that life-affirming choice.

00:40:42.540 That is why 7 Weeks Coffee donates 10% of every sale to pregnancy centers across the country.

00:40:48.540 They have donated over $1 million to these pregnancy centers.

00:40:53.080 Isn't that incredible?

00:40:53.800 If you have chosen to allow your coffee to serve a higher purpose, go ahead and subscribe.

00:40:59.700 You'll save 15% on every order when you do.

00:41:02.800 It'll show up on your front door every month.

00:41:05.760 Also, when you use my code Allie, you get an extra 10% off, so that's a 25% total savings there.

00:41:13.360 It's really incredible.

00:41:14.300 Go to 7weekscoffee.com.

00:41:16.160 Use code Allie at checkout. 1.00

00:41:17.560 That's 7weekscoffee.com.

00:41:19.020 Code Allie. 1.00

00:41:19.660 We've seen the Pope say some things about immigration and things like that, Pope Leo.

00:41:30.240 And he also made a comment that I think we talked about at the time, and I don't think I have it in front of me,

00:41:34.780 but I'm just interested in what you think.

00:41:36.380 He was like, you can't be pro-life, and you can't just be against abortion.

00:41:41.500 You also have to care about the treatment of immigrants, and you also can have to be against the death penalty.

00:41:47.840 I disagree with that.

00:41:49.080 I'm sure there are a lot of Catholics who disagree with that, but what is your thought?

00:41:53.100 Just on that phrasing, the death penalty will take us down a very long rabbit hole,

00:41:58.020 but I hate the dilution of the phrase pro-life.

00:42:04.220 I hate it.

00:42:05.520 If every issue is a pro-life issue, then no issue is a pro-life issue.

00:42:10.340 People will try to just make everything pro-life.

00:42:12.520 It doesn't make you care about it as much as abortion.

00:42:15.200 It just makes, oh, if everything's a pro-life issue, well, I can't deal with everything,

00:42:18.240 so I'm not going to deal with anything.

00:42:20.700 That's what I don't like.

00:42:21.480 For me, pro-life has a very, very specific meaning.

00:42:24.420 It's about securing the right to life of human beings.

00:42:28.920 Some people might say innocent human beings, and so there's a small element where the death

00:42:33.480 penalty is in.

00:42:34.140 But even like, you know, I'm opposed to the death penalty.

00:42:35.680 I'm going to submit to the church on that teaching.

00:42:37.260 But even there, like, there are more people working to end the death penalty than there

00:42:42.760 are people on death row.

00:42:44.320 So it's like, I think we have the basis covered.

00:42:46.960 There are way more children in danger of being aborted.

00:42:50.240 Or to take other examples, what would fall under pro-life then, euthanasia and assisted

00:42:53.960 suicide.

00:42:54.960 One in 25 people in the country of Canada were killed by assisted suicide.

00:43:00.420 One in 25.

00:43:02.280 And you have people in Canada who are applying for assisted suicide.

00:43:05.160 They call it medical aid and dying, because they don't want to be homeless.

00:43:09.100 They're sick, and they're worried about living on the street, and they'd rather be dead.

00:43:11.960 And the government's processing their applications. 0.98

00:43:14.480 So I think that when it comes to immigration, unless you have a policy where you shoot people

00:43:20.580 the second they come over the border, it's not a pro-life issue.

00:43:23.840 Now, we have to remember also, when it comes to Catholicism, this is a global church.

00:43:27.900 Like, American Catholics, I think, make up like 6% of the world's Catholic population.

00:43:32.800 It's like, it's not all about us.

00:43:33.940 A lot of the issues, when you look at immigration and migrants, like, there are things that happen

00:43:38.100 in North Africa called desert dumping, where people will try to get to Europe.

00:43:42.720 So smugglers will put them in boats or take them in caravans.

00:43:46.500 And instead of taking them to Europe, they'll dump them in the Libyan desert to die. 1.00

00:43:50.420 You know?

00:43:51.000 And so the Pope is saying, like, that's certainly not pro-life, if that's what you're...

00:43:54.500 And if you're a government and you just hope immigrant migrants will be taken care of 1.00

00:43:58.300 in that way, you know, it's like, yeah, that would fall under it.

00:44:01.500 But simply just deporting people to a country where it's economically depressed, that's

00:44:06.960 not a pro-life issue.

00:44:07.820 And I really don't want the term to be diluted so much.

00:44:10.260 Now, there's other issues, even if they're not pro-life.

00:44:13.020 There are, you know, I mean, people living in poverty.

00:44:16.600 I mean, people in America living in poverty, worrying about their paycheck to paycheck,

00:44:20.440 drowning in debt, can't have access to good health care.

00:44:23.240 That's not a pro-life issue, but it's an important issue.

00:44:26.000 Christians should alleviate the suffering of their fellow man.

00:44:28.820 Let's just get our terms right.

00:44:30.340 Yeah.

00:44:31.200 And Protestantism, evangelicalism, there are a lot of Christians who call themselves pro-all-life

00:44:37.540 Christians. 0.51

00:44:38.040 So they would say they're more pro-life than you and me, because they are at least more

00:44:42.900 than me, because I vote Republican, I'm a conservative, and I do believe in enforcing our border laws.

00:44:48.320 But they would call themselves pro-all-life because they want more welfare.

00:44:51.720 They're, you know, want an open border policy.

00:44:55.480 They're against the death penalty.

00:44:57.360 But the funny thing is, they're for all of those things, but they're very, very weak when

00:45:01.120 it comes to the legal defense of life.

00:45:02.680 I would ask them, do you think it should be illegal to kill human beings before they are

00:45:07.980 born?

00:45:08.600 Yeah.

00:45:09.420 Give me a yes or no.

00:45:10.720 Should it be illegal?

00:45:11.880 I'll even hedge it more for you.

00:45:13.300 Do you think elective abortion, killing human beings before they're born just because you

00:45:18.260 don't want to be pregnant, or even setting aside the health issues, don't give me the

00:45:21.440 whatabouts, should elective abortion be illegal? 0.98

00:45:25.780 And if they say no, don't give me this crap that you're more pro-life than me. 0.97

00:45:29.840 Yeah. 0.98

00:45:30.420 Sorry.

00:45:30.700 And they, you know, they always avoid answering the yes or no, the yes or no, the yes or no

00:45:37.220 question, because they would say it's, many of them would say it's wrong, but they think

00:45:42.040 wrongly that it's a different question of whether it should be illegal.

00:45:46.840 They would say it's nuanced, or like, there are some other things that we can do, and

00:45:51.440 I always want to ask, like, we can get to multiple sides of that answer, but I always

00:45:55.240 want to ask, okay, you think that there needs to be more done for those women and children?

00:45:59.240 What are you doing?

00:46:00.100 Yeah.

00:46:00.420 What are you doing? 0.99

00:46:01.180 And it's totally hypocritical. 0.97

00:46:03.440 They'll say, well, we shouldn't outlaw abortion. 0.92

00:46:06.280 We should just reduce the need for abortion. 0.91

00:46:08.520 We should reduce the underlying causes of abortion and just have it be legal, but we're going to

00:46:15.220 fight, we're only fighting the underlying causes, we're not going to make it illegal.

00:46:18.220 But when it comes to gun violence, they don't say, well, you know, we're just going to reduce

00:46:22.700 the underlying causes of gun violence.

00:46:24.660 No, they want to ban any gun that looks scary to them.

00:46:27.140 Yeah.

00:46:27.500 They'll call it an assault weapon without any definition of what that is, exactly.

00:46:31.800 So for their pet political causes, they want the law to step in and the power of the law

00:46:37.340 to make you conform, whether it's gun control, whether it's transgender ideology, whether

00:46:42.960 it's all these other things.

00:46:43.980 But when it comes to other issues, oh, well, you know, so I think it shows the true colors.

00:46:48.460 And they won't apply that principle, the belief in just fighting the underlying causes to murder

00:46:53.160 of people outside the womb or rape of people outside of the womb.

00:46:56.560 They won't say, well, no, rape shouldn't be illegal.

00:46:58.740 Let's just make sure that men are satisfied in a different way. 1.00

00:47:01.800 And they act like we can't do both.

00:47:03.440 That's what makes it hypocritical to me is like, you claim, they'll say, oh, well, we're

00:47:09.160 more pro-life because we're doing something about the underlying causes.

00:47:12.380 And I'll say, and I'll ask them, are you volunteering at a pregnancy resource center?

00:47:15.840 No, when you say you're doing something, what you mean is you're voting for a democratic

00:47:21.420 economic policy for the Democratic Party that you think is better for the poor.

00:47:26.900 And that if I don't vote for your liberal democratic policies, I don't really care about the poor.

00:47:32.220 Maybe I care about the poor because I've seen the 25 percent of poor people that live in

00:47:38.740 California.

00:47:39.640 I left California five years ago for the great state of Texas.

00:47:43.380 And I love that if liberal policies were all that's necessary to eradicate poverty, how

00:47:48.860 come a state that has had a super majority of Democrats for decades has one of the highest

00:47:54.540 homelessness rates, highest poverty rates, like in the country, in their major cities?

00:47:59.240 That always makes me pretty suspicious.

00:48:03.320 Yeah.

00:48:03.880 And I remember when Thomas Sowell said, you don't judge policies by their stated intentions,

00:48:08.420 you judge the policy by the outcome.

00:48:10.460 Yeah.

00:48:10.700 And too many people judge the compassion of a policy by what a politician says the policy

00:48:15.120 is going to do, not what by the policy has done.

00:48:17.760 Yeah.

00:48:18.200 But I think that Christians can reasonably disagree.

00:48:22.080 And that's where we have to understand.

00:48:23.420 There's things we can reasonably disagree.

00:48:25.840 And when some Christians overstate their case and say, oh, you know, I don't want this

00:48:29.460 particular entitlement program, you know, that's a personal judgment that people are

00:48:34.340 going to make.

00:48:35.100 Some people might consider more certain kinds of entitlement programs to be helpful.

00:48:39.460 Others might support things like universal basic income.

00:48:41.620 Other people might support other programs.

00:48:43.120 Fine.

00:48:43.320 We can disagree about it.

00:48:44.840 Or take gun violence.

00:48:46.260 Like, there's a variety of things that we can do to reduce gun violence.

00:48:49.640 What's funny to me, I don't want to go on too much of a tangent, but I need to get this

00:48:52.820 out there, is liberals will say, you conservatives idolize the Second Amendment, and you care

00:48:58.460 more about guns than kids being killed.

00:49:01.140 You know, you care more about that.

00:49:02.700 To which I would say to them, would you be in favor of this law?

00:49:05.760 News organizations cannot broadcast stories about mass shootings.

00:49:09.860 If we did that, that would save lives.

00:49:11.860 There has been repeated empirical studies that have shown when mass shootings have greater

00:49:20.680 representation in media, it greatly increases the risk of a copycat killing.

00:49:24.980 That is indisputable.

00:49:27.440 Think about the epidemic we've had.

00:49:29.580 We have had guns for centuries in this country, but mass shootings are a relatively recent epidemic

00:49:35.260 since Columbine.

00:49:37.100 I remember Columbine.

00:49:37.900 I remember watching it in high school.

00:49:39.080 But that was when this started getting the round-the-clock news coverage, and people

00:49:43.100 felt like, oh, this is how I can live forever, that I'm going to go out in a blaze of glory,

00:49:47.480 and people will always remember me as the guy who did this.

00:49:50.660 So we could save lives by just saying, hey, you can't broadcast stories about this.

00:49:55.260 But what are liberals going to say?

00:49:56.620 But the First Amendment, the freedom of the press.

00:50:00.540 Right.

00:50:01.460 So now maybe you can understand why the much you care about the First Amendment, even though

00:50:06.500 it will cost lives, but that freedom is very, very important for the press to have that.

00:50:12.220 Because when government says the press can't say certain things, that leads to totalitarianism.

00:50:16.920 When you understand that, then you'll understand why I care about the Second Amendment.

00:50:20.840 And I know you don't agree with this since we disagree on the death penalty, but I tell 1.00

00:50:25.440 people that I support the death penalty for certain crimes, for murder after due process.

00:50:30.560 I support bans against abortion, and I support the Second Amendment, all for the same reason. 0.93

00:50:36.600 People try to say that that's hypocritical, but it's all because I believe in the defense

00:50:40.580 of innocent life.

00:50:41.620 It's all because I believe in justice for innocent life.

00:50:44.460 I care about innocent life so much that I believe that intentionally taking innocent

00:50:48.560 life, the only just punishment for that is execution.

00:50:51.600 I just agree with Genesis 9-6 on that.

00:50:54.080 That's also why I believe people have the right to self-defense.

00:50:56.380 It's also why I believe it should be wrong to kill innocent life.

00:50:58.880 And whether we can disagree on the policies surrounding the death penalty and stuff, we

00:51:03.240 might be able to disagree on some of the minutiae there, but it's not hypocritical for someone

00:51:07.780 in principle to have those beliefs.

00:51:09.540 No, I wouldn't say it's hypocritical in principle, especially if you're focusing on what to do

00:51:15.900 for the defense of human life.

00:51:17.040 And traditionally, the Church has understood that the justification of the death penalty was

00:51:21.040 because this was the primary means to protect the common good of society, especially when

00:51:26.080 you don't have things like prisons.

00:51:27.320 And I think even Christians would understand there's a development in our understanding of

00:51:31.120 when the death penalty is appropriate.

00:51:32.960 So, I mean, even just a few centuries ago, the death penalty would have been used for crimes we

00:51:38.240 would never use it for today, like if you're hunting on the Lord's land or just grand theft.

00:51:43.160 Like even in the United States 200 years ago, the saying was,

00:51:48.400 people are not hanged for stealing horses.

00:51:53.000 They are hanged so horses will not be stolen.

00:51:56.480 Because if you don't have a robust prison system, the death penalty will be meted out a lot more.

00:52:02.520 Whereas I think even you and I would agree that, oh, well, we're just going to restrict it to the

00:52:05.940 most heinous of crimes.

00:52:07.940 And there's places where now it would be inappropriate to leverage it.

00:52:11.120 But I agree that ultimately what we're doing in all of it is we're doing this to protect

00:52:15.140 the dignity of human beings.

00:52:17.660 That's exactly right.

00:52:24.120 Last sponsor is Shopify.

00:52:26.060 If you are a business owner, you're trying to sell a product.

00:52:28.760 You don't want to waste time creating an e-commerce site from scratch.

00:52:33.020 Like you want to go with the professionals, the guys who have done this so much that they

00:52:37.320 know how to make it easy for you.

00:52:38.780 They know how to make your site look good.

00:52:40.880 They know how to cover all of the bases so you can go back to doing what you love, which

00:52:45.340 is creating the product and then making money from selling the product.

00:52:48.680 And that's why you need to use Shopify.

00:52:50.800 It's what we use for our merchandise for relatable.

00:52:54.340 And it really does make it so easy.

00:52:56.400 You don't have to be tech savvy.

00:52:57.900 They've got all of the tools available to write product descriptions, to match your brand.

00:53:03.020 They really do make it so simple.

00:53:05.260 And that makes it easy for you to actually make a profit from your business, which is

00:53:10.340 really important as a business owner.

00:53:12.480 So make sure that you go to shopify.com slash Allie. 0.99

00:53:17.460 You'll have a $1 per month trial.

00:53:20.200 If you use my link, turn your big business idea into with Shopify on your side, go to

00:53:26.540 shopify.com slash Allie.

00:53:28.260 That's shopify.com slash Allie.

00:53:36.080 There has been a lot of studies showing that there is an increased interest, at least in

00:53:41.940 Catholicism.

00:53:43.200 But then I saw a study too that said like people, young people aren't going into vocations

00:53:48.220 as much as they used to.

00:53:49.840 So what is your thought surrounding that?

00:53:52.000 And maybe just in general, since it's Protestant and Catholic, the talk about revival.

00:53:56.800 Of course, I'm excited as a Protestant, that there's more people coming to our churches

00:54:01.000 and stuff.

00:54:01.480 I'm sure you as a Catholic are excited about more interest in Catholicism.

00:54:04.780 Being Christian is cool.

00:54:05.940 Being Richard Dawkins and Neil deGrasse Tyson is not.

00:54:08.380 Yeah.

00:54:08.740 And Richard Dawkins might be realizing that.

00:54:10.820 So what is your thought on all of that, that I just said?

00:54:13.760 It's weird living...

00:54:15.400 It's weird having been a...

00:54:18.040 Being an older millennial myself, having lived through and now I can see like a cultural

00:54:24.200 change that I was there at the beginning and the end of it.

00:54:27.060 I remember when I converted to Catholicism, I was 17 years old.

00:54:30.560 That was in the early 2000s.

00:54:32.720 And that was back when new atheism was just right at its heyday.

00:54:35.820 After 9-11, there was this cultural vibe that religion isn't just false, it's irrational

00:54:41.900 and it causes people to do crazy things like fly planes into buildings.

00:54:45.160 So new atheism got a big rise out of that for some years.

00:54:47.720 That's why my first book I ever wrote was Answering Atheism.

00:54:50.880 That was in 2013 when it was still pretty strong.

00:54:55.100 But I think people got really...

00:54:57.040 And there was this promise like, oh, once we get rid of religion, we'll have a society 0.98

00:55:00.960 of perfect rationality.

00:55:03.140 And instead, what did we get?

00:55:04.760 We got six foot four inch guys yelling at GameStop employees saying, it's ma'am.

00:55:09.840 Yeah.

00:55:10.580 And we got, you know, guys trouncing women in women's sports and being told you have 0.99

00:55:15.680 to accept this.

00:55:16.440 Right.

00:55:17.280 We got all kinds of things being degenerate, the proliferation of, like a lot of people

00:55:22.820 who are into online atheism, we're going to make the world a better place.

00:55:25.900 I think what ended up happening is most of them just fell down the rabbit hole of, can

00:55:28.940 I say the P word about adult entertainment?

00:55:30.900 Or do I have to call it corn?

00:55:32.160 No, you can say porn.

00:55:33.180 I know some channels are like, I can't get dinged. 0.90

00:55:35.340 Pornography.

00:55:36.120 I mean, like I remember when I was in middle school, that would have been the late 90s.

00:55:41.640 The first time I saw pornography, a kid pulled out a Xeroxed photograph from his backpack.

00:55:46.980 Like it sounds quaint almost.

00:55:48.660 Yeah.

00:55:49.100 Compared to what happens to kids now with Pornhub, with OnlyFans, skyrocketed.

00:55:53.680 Right.

00:55:53.900 So you had people who have fallen into this, what's supposed to be the atheist rational

00:55:57.040 enlightenment, it's just a pit of degeneracy, nihilism, and hopelessness.

00:56:01.380 And people want out of it.

00:56:02.560 And they see Christianity has it, and especially men.

00:56:06.540 And I think also, so you have this degeneracy.

00:56:10.120 I think also you've seen in the past like 10 years, men have been stepped on by society,

00:56:15.280 being told you have toxic masculinity.

00:56:17.580 You know, the Gillette razor commercial, like, oh, boys are treated like defective girls in

00:56:22.660 the classroom.

00:56:24.500 Over and over being told, you know, it's bad that you like being a man.

00:56:28.180 You like being white. 0.86

00:56:28.960 You like your heritage.

00:56:29.760 You like doing masculine things.

00:56:30.920 And finally, you just snap.

00:56:33.120 And you know what?

00:56:33.700 You don't want to apologize anymore.

00:56:35.180 And you go to the way other extreme.

00:56:36.940 And you want tradition.

00:56:38.920 You want in something that values your traditional heritage identity.

00:56:42.700 And you see that in Christianity.

00:56:45.640 And so I think we're seeing, and just people in general who see that in cultural hopelessness.

00:56:49.560 So we're seeing a big increase in Catholic baptisms, Eastern Orthodoxy, people, big vibe shift for

00:56:55.680 that online, people going to that.

00:56:57.060 I personally, though, I'm not trying to be triumphalist about that because we're still

00:57:00.060 bleeding a lot of people.

00:57:01.300 I still meet tons of people who say I used to be Catholic, which always makes me sad.

00:57:04.900 And so I think I don't like when Catholic apologists get really triumphalist about that stuff.

00:57:09.320 Yeah, I've actually, I got like a lot of pushback because I wasn't even trying to make like an

00:57:14.120 anti-Catholic argument.

00:57:15.240 But I do see a lot of people saying, oh, like, because they'll say it sometimes.

00:57:20.360 Some people will say it like as an anti-Protestant thing, like, see, like, this is why we're

00:57:24.700 winning because all of this.

00:57:25.620 But I'm like, okay.

00:57:26.840 But also, both Protestants and Catholics, by the way, gaining people, losing a lot of people.

00:57:32.380 We just need to be realistic about that.

00:57:34.540 And I don't like some people, when I point that out to people, I'll say, yeah, you're

00:57:37.700 right.

00:57:37.860 We're seeing a big growth.

00:57:39.380 That's really, praise be to God.

00:57:40.900 And I'll say, but we're forgetting we're losing lots of people.

00:57:45.580 And for Catholics, I mean, 24% of them maybe become Protestant, like 50% of them are just 0.97

00:57:50.960 non-religious.

00:57:52.320 We got to do something about that.

00:57:53.640 And I've had some people tell me, oh, well, you know, it's quality quantity.

00:57:56.120 Like those people leaving the church, they were lukewarm, lackluster.

00:57:59.660 We're kind of better off without them.

00:58:01.480 And we're just, we're growing percentage-wise and the most on-fire people.

00:58:06.000 I don't see the church as a social club.

00:58:08.260 Pope Francis used the image of a field hospital, like in war.

00:58:11.620 He set up the tents and you bring in the people off the battlefield. 0.70

00:58:13.860 That's what I think the church should be.

00:58:16.360 So to hear that an injured, dying person walked out of the hospital and like, oh, good.

00:58:20.040 Now we've got the really smart doctors here only.

00:58:22.740 So we're a lot better off.

00:58:24.200 That person's dying.

00:58:25.600 We should be really like worried about that and grieve that.

00:58:29.000 So, but I'm seeing the shift.

00:58:30.800 It's a good analogy.

00:58:31.100 Yeah, we're seeing the shift and we're seeing, especially, I think, young men being attracted

00:58:34.960 to this traditionalism that values their masculinity, values their heritage.

00:58:39.840 I don't know if you want to get into this too early or not.

00:58:42.120 It's kind of weird though.

00:58:43.760 Traditionally, religion was more popular among women than men.

00:58:47.220 But in the past few years, it's kind of flipped.

00:58:48.900 Yeah.

00:58:49.460 And that's...

00:58:50.740 Marriage too.

00:58:51.880 Yes.

00:58:52.160 And I think that's not a coincidence.

00:58:53.460 Well, there was a study, I forget if it was Pew, it was circulating online a lot, saying

00:58:58.800 that they asked high school seniors in 1993, are you likely to get married?

00:59:03.440 And I think women is like 82% or something like that. 1.00

00:59:06.760 Yep.

00:59:07.300 And men were like 74 or 76.

00:59:09.880 2023, so 30 years later, asking seniors today who'd be Gen Z, or are they Gen Alpha?

00:59:16.760 No, I think they're still Gen Z, younger Gen Z.

00:59:19.320 Are you likely to get married?

00:59:20.540 Men maybe drop by like 2%.

00:59:22.080 Women drop by like 20%.

00:59:23.780 Yep.

00:59:24.200 You're right.

00:59:24.680 We just talked about this, and you're exactly right on the numbers.

00:59:27.980 Yeah.

00:59:28.280 So it's just like, so you see women don't want to get married, and especially more traditional 0.98

00:59:35.480 conservative Protestantism and conservative Catholicism, men are showing more interest

00:59:42.020 in that than women. 0.99

00:59:43.700 Men are kind of becoming more conservative.

00:59:45.120 Women are becoming more liberal.

00:59:47.140 And I mean, there's a whole bunch of explanations why for that.

00:59:49.880 I think what we are seeing is the fruit of third wave feminism from the late 80s, early

00:59:56.460 90s.

00:59:57.680 So if you think about it, you know, first wave, like right to vote, stuff like that.

01:00:00.820 Second wave, right to work, like sexual harassment is a bad thing. 0.97

01:00:04.760 You know, women can actually own credit cards, not that big a deal. 1.00

01:00:08.000 Third wave is like raunch feminism. 1.00

01:00:10.140 Like, okay, if men are going to be out, if men can sleep with anybody and it's cool,

01:00:13.800 like women should be able to do the same thing. 1.00

01:00:15.400 No, don't drag women down to our level, lift men up to women's levels. 1.00

01:00:19.860 So the third wave feminism, the girl boss stuff, like you can have it all, get your career, 1.00

01:00:25.120 you don't need a man, you know, and this kind of man-hating stuff from feminists in the 90s, 1.00

01:00:29.580 and women imbibe this. 1.00

01:00:31.940 And then those women, what do those women do? 1.00

01:00:35.260 Well, they go and become teachers, professors.

01:00:37.380 They become, now they're the ones who are indoctrinating the seniors in 2023, right?

01:00:43.220 And part of it, I think, is now they're in their, what, late 30s, early 40s,

01:00:47.920 and they feel like that desire maybe to have children,

01:00:51.340 and statistically it's going to be real, real tough, real tough to find someone.

01:00:56.800 And if you do find them, be able to have children.

01:01:00.700 And I think, you know, misery loves company.

01:01:02.860 So I think that we are, I think we are seeing, it's always like when you say,

01:01:07.080 why are women turning away from religion, turning away from marriage? 1.00

01:01:10.080 There's two extremes. 0.99

01:01:11.620 There's just only blaming feminism or women, or just, it's women, they're the problem. 1.00

01:01:18.900 Women need men to rein them in, like women are bad, they're defective. 1.00

01:01:21.920 No, we're all defective because of sin. 0.99

01:01:23.800 There's toxic masculinity, there's toxic femininity. 1.00

01:01:26.780 You know, there's women, men who use their gifts of masculinity to bully and beat up people. 1.00

01:01:31.760 Women who use their gifts of femininity to seduce and destroy people. 1.00

01:01:36.420 You know, so it's both. 0.98

01:01:37.660 We're all defective.

01:01:39.860 But focusing just on that or just blaming that on either extreme. 0.77

01:01:43.900 I also disagree with people who would say it's only, oh, well, it's men being abusive and misogynistic and vile,

01:01:49.860 and that's driven women away. 1.00

01:01:51.500 That's not the whole answer.

01:01:53.500 But I'm not going to lie if that's not a part of it.

01:01:55.140 If you have young guys, and if you're a high school senior now, and the guys you see all like to act like Andrew Tate,

01:02:01.440 it doesn't make marriage that attractive.

01:02:03.420 You know, if they act like that and treat women in that way, it's not going to be that attractive to you as a woman, frankly.

01:02:08.320 Yeah.

01:02:08.880 So it's a part of it, but not the whole thing.

01:02:10.180 Which is why, for all of us, the perfect model is Christ, who is meekness, which is power under control,

01:02:16.760 and why Christianity is the answer for women who are seeking worth and who are seeking equality and value,

01:02:22.960 and who are seeking the honor and the dignity that can only be brought by their creator,

01:02:28.540 and men who are seeking the purpose and strength that they think they're finding in a counterfeit,

01:02:33.280 like Andrew Tate, but really that just leads to a dead end.

01:02:35.920 I think the biggest thing, like my advice for Gen Z women and Gen Z men now,

01:02:40.340 is the internet is not your friends and it's not your therapy chamber.

01:02:44.560 I would say like for women, like stop using TikTok as a diary. 1.00

01:02:49.660 Stop it.

01:02:50.720 Like stop trying to get validation from strangers who like your posts,

01:02:55.300 because that's just a temptation to be dramatic, to be immodest, to be pornographic, frankly.

01:02:59.800 To seek that attention, you know, it's not authentic femininity. 0.98

01:03:06.780 Get off the line, and same with men too, who easily fall down the rabbit hole of not being very masculine.

01:03:12.480 Like my advice, especially for like young men, would be go do an activity that's a productive use of your hands

01:03:20.300 with other men that does not have screens.

01:03:23.740 Yeah.

01:03:24.500 That could be a lot of things.

01:03:25.660 For me, it's jujitsu and like boxing.

01:03:28.400 And that's fun.

01:03:29.060 Like honestly, I know guys that are black belts in jujitsu,

01:03:32.000 and they do not walk around like puffing their chests out or being,

01:03:36.600 because they know they're strong.

01:03:38.400 And once you know you're strong, you don't have to do that stuff.

01:03:40.820 So true.

01:03:41.320 But it doesn't have to be that.

01:03:42.700 Like I said, productive, other men, and no screens.

01:03:46.360 So video games don't count.

01:03:47.640 But it could be mechanics.

01:03:49.260 It could be grilling.

01:03:50.260 It could be jogging.

01:03:51.640 It could be artwork.

01:03:52.980 Golfing, fishing, yeah.

01:03:54.360 Learned, like what we did in the 90s, get a guitar and start a band.

01:03:57.900 Yeah.

01:03:58.460 Like real music that's not AI on the billboard charts.

01:04:01.000 Right.

01:04:01.280 But there's a whole list of things that it doesn't have to, you know, maybe martial arts isn't your thing,

01:04:05.020 but there's a whole bunch of things.

01:04:06.760 But it's with other men, productive with your hands or feet if you like jogging and running.

01:04:11.940 And there's no screens.

01:04:13.520 Yeah.

01:04:13.860 And doing that, it builds you up.

01:04:17.280 And that's why, and I think the church has to really step forward too and be accommodating to men.

01:04:22.420 Like I know in Catholic parishes, I don't know what's like this in the Protestant world,

01:04:25.740 the men's groups at a Catholic parish usually meet on Saturday at 6.30 in the morning.

01:04:33.140 And I think the reason for that is who goes to them?

01:04:35.480 Well, it's dads with kids, and that's the least disruptive time to have them outside of the house.

01:04:40.120 Yeah.

01:04:40.880 But for 20-year-old guys, like you got to have that at Thursday night at 7 o'clock.

01:04:45.500 Yeah.

01:04:46.100 To just for them and also to meet their needs where they're at and to understand like they were so,

01:04:52.360 like to understand their legitimate grievances for young men today.

01:04:55.800 They've been told like hate their identity for over a decade.

01:04:58.940 They've been put forth in an economy where it's very difficult for them to find full-time work to provide for a family,

01:05:06.260 to find housing, you know, that is affordable,

01:05:08.380 to recognize their difficulties, but to encourage them.

01:05:11.700 It's okay to recognize this stuff, but don't make victimhood your identity.

01:05:15.820 Same for women. 1.00

01:05:16.640 Yeah.

01:05:17.100 So good.

01:05:18.080 Trent, thank you so much for all of your insight today.

01:05:21.060 We agree on so much, and I could talk to you forever.

01:05:24.700 Tell people again where they can find you.

01:05:26.740 If you want to check out my channel, it's just Council of Trent, C-O-U-N-S-E-L. 1.00

01:05:30.800 I'll leave you to search Trent Warren.

01:05:31.680 One of the best and most clever titles of a podcast ever.

01:05:34.800 Oh, yes.

01:05:36.200 We got to find a Catholic girl named Florence.

01:05:38.580 We'll do Council of Florence for her show. 0.96

01:05:40.320 There you go.

01:05:40.900 But yeah, so Council of Trent, or Trent Horn on YouTube.

01:05:44.420 My work's also available at catholic.com.

01:05:47.400 So we're doing that.

01:05:49.520 And also we're going to be doing a special conference.

01:05:52.380 So if you're Catholic and you want to come meet me and a bunch of other people,

01:05:55.320 that'll be April 11th in Dallas.

01:05:57.740 So that'll be Conference of Trent instead of Council of Trent.

01:06:01.280 Conference of Trent.

01:06:02.100 People can go and check all that great stuff out.

01:06:04.700 Awesome.

01:06:05.060 Well, thank you so much.

01:06:06.140 All right.

01:06:32.100 Rinse takes your laundry and hand delivers it to your door.

01:06:45.380 Expertly cleaned and folded.

01:06:46.940 So you could take the time once spent folding and sorting and waiting

01:06:50.100 to finally pursue a whole new version of you.

01:06:53.020 Like tea time you.

01:06:55.020 Mmm.

01:06:55.840 Or this tea time you.

01:06:58.400 Or even this tea time you.

01:07:00.940 So did you hear about Dave?

01:07:01.920 Or even tea time, tea time, tea time you.

01:07:05.080 Mmm.

01:07:06.080 So update on Dave.

01:07:08.020 It's up to you.

01:07:09.100 We'll take the laundry.

01:07:10.540 Rinse.

01:07:11.140 It's time to be great.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - November 24, 2025

Ep 1271 ｜ A Catholic & Protestant on the Death Penalty, Immigration & Women’s Roles ｜ Trent Horn

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript