Ep 1272 ｜ Your Self-Care Is Making You Weak： Therapist Drops Hard Truths ｜ RaQuel Hopkins
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 2 minutes
Words per Minute
165.95526
Summary
Your pain is not special, not all of your emotions are valid, and life is not all about you. These are the messages from countercultural mental health expert, Raquel Hopkins. In this episode, Dr. Hopkins shares how she became a coach, a coach and a licensed therapist, and how she decided to go back to school for a second master's degree in clinical and mental health counseling.
Transcript
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Not all of your emotions are valid, and life is not all about you.
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These are the messages from this countercultural mental health expert that we've got on the
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Raquel Hopkins is known as the capacity expert on Instagram.
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I came across her posts earlier this year, and I thought, wow, we are on the same page,
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and you don't hear a lot of mental health professionals making the statements that she does.
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She's got some tough love for us today that I know you guys are going to love.
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This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers.
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Raquel, thanks so much for taking the time to join us.
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Could you tell everyone who you are and what you do?
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I'm currently in a season of transition, so I don't know what I do.
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I think that what I'm called to be doing is finding ways to support people in developing
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and transforming into the best version of themselves.
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So whether that's in the corporate space or having conversations around mental health.
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I'm a licensed therapist, and I also work in the HR space.
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So my whole life is centered around dealing with people.
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Tell me a little bit about what we were talking about off camera.
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And the educrastination, going back to school when you don't know what to do,
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So I was in the HR space, and I was working as VP of HR at the time, and in 2019, I was
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It's nice to be able to, I guess, have a sense of freedom from a financial standpoint, but
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I just didn't feel like I was giving back in any way besides the people that were closest
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to me, and I decided to go back to school to get this second master's in clinical and mental
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health counseling, and when I started the program, I was like, oh, what is this?
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And once I got into the program, I found another passion of mine, which has always been
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helping people, supporting people, and as I started to pay attention to the conversations
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around mental health, I was like, hmm, we've kind of lost the plot.
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So let me go back to this educrastination, because I just made a decision last week to
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I think that what I'm really leaning into is I really love learning, and when it comes
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to my craft, I really want to be the best, whatever that means or whatever that looks like.
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So I think I'm going to go back to school and get my doctorates.
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So next time you're on, maybe, maybe not next time, but at some point, you'll be Dr.
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You said once you started taking these mental health courses, you got your second master's,
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you started seeing that we kind of lost the plot when it comes to mental health.
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So if we go to, so I'll just take you back to when I was actually in this program.
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So as we're reading about the pros and cons of what it means to be a human and experiencing
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life, I just read it or interpret the information as just pros and cons.
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If you grow up in a two-parent household, single-parent household, there are going to be pros and cons to
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And I remember coming across a definition of mental health that I cannot find today.
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And I really wish that I could, but there was one word in there and it was optimization.
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So I'm not supposed to protect my peace, protect my mental health.
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What would it look like for me to actually optimize my mental health?
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And that's where things started changing for me.
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So another thing that was interesting during this period is I was in this program during COVID.
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So it was like we were doubling down on making people feel good, but it still was not in alignment
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with textbook per se in terms of how we support people.
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So as a person, as an individual going through the program, I'm always looking at the information.
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Because if I can't figure out how to apply this to my life, I don't know how I can necessarily
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So I started exploring beyond what was being offered in the textbook.
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And I started learning about adult development and just pulling the layers back.
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And I just realized that we had started talking about mental health in a way that did not support
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the complexity of what it means to be human and just the dynamics of your mental health being
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having the ability to be flexible and agile and just dynamic.
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We had gotten, well, we still are there today to where people hear the word mental health
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Like if Allie uses the word mental health or I have to be cautious or mindful of what
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So when you saw that definition of optimization, I'd love for you to break that down.
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It's better than you're saying, you said, wait, I'm not supposed to protect my peace
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because just from an outsider perspective, definitely what I hear from a lot of therapists
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or pseudo therapists online is that it's all about protecting yourself, your self-care,
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But it sounds like the optimization definition that you heard got your wheels turning, right?
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So going back to what you're speaking to, I think that we all have to learn to care for
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And I believe that we all have to learn to care for ourselves because as we go through
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life and you experience these transitions, whether it's getting married, having children,
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starting a new job, life is always going to ask you like, who are you and who is it that
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So the ability to lose who you are is very strong as well, which is why it's important
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But taking care of yourself is not so much about protection because when I hear the word
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protection, it's to keep you safe from harm and injury.
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When I think about nurturing oneself, that is what mental health is more about.
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And when you start to nurture yourself, you open yourself up to other possibilities.
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So you take, for example, if I am focusing on nurturing myself, I can open up to start
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And the goal is not to become self-centered in your worldviews, your beliefs, your ways of
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And I think that that foundational concept of not becoming self-centered is also related to
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At some point, we're all going to look back over our lives and say, did I live with a
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Like, am I proud of how I contributed to those around me?
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So, and that's why that word optimization stood out to me because I was the queen of protect
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The people who are most concerned with protecting themselves and putting themselves first are very
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And you've talked about that, this obsession with self-care.
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Like what I hear you saying is that stewarding your body and yourself well, like from a Christian
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perspective, I think that's part of what we are responsible for doing is caring for ourselves
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well, while also meeting the needs of other people and serving people around us well.
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But we hear all the time that you basically should sacrifice everything on the altar of
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So when you say, I'll tell you what came to my mind when you said from a Christian perspective,
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I think that we are responsible for helping people carry their burdens, right?
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And when they say burden, like crises, if you're experiencing grief, if you're having a difficult
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time, I think that where we've lost the plot is also being able to carry both.
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So helping others carry their burden while also carrying your load.
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And that's where the personal responsibility comes in to where you are constantly thinking
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about, not constantly thinking about, but considering your mindset, your attitude, your outlook on
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And I think that we do not have a very good balance of those things, which is why I will
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say that if you can't make the distinction between burden and load, figuring out what's
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yours to carry or where you end and where you begin, it's a lack of capacity.
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And I like to say it's a lack of capacity because it's a reflection of being underdeveloped.
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And I don't want to, when people hear me say the word underdeveloped, we hate it as adults,
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but it's no, we're, we're no different from children.
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Like as adults, we don't stop growing, evolving and growing as human beings.
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And in my mind, when I hear someone say that I may be underdeveloped, it doesn't mean that
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It just says that there's still more growing to, to happen, which is why I don't like the
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You have described self-care as not about doing less, but doing more to achieve alignment,
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mental clarity, and presence, even in imperfect circumstances.
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And you said self-care was about how individuals chose to show up in the world, reflecting a
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grounded state rather than a mere tool for relief.
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I think that a lot of times when we talk about self-care, a lot of it is the instant gratification
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And if we are constantly focusing on managing our symptoms, whether it's overwhelm, whether
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it's feeling exhausted, you never really learn how to grow through those things or find
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And so I think that you have a part of the population that's like, I just need to figure
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And then you have people that want to think about their mental health from an optimization
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standpoint where they're really looking for solutions.
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Do you think much of the therapy world today has made people mentally weak?
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And I would say, well, yeah, I mean, call a spade a spade, right?
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Because you were talking about how you actually need to work through difficult circumstances
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It's not always just about protecting yourself from bad feelings, right?
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So most people, I always say this is kind of like my motto is a lot of us want to feel better,
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Because if the goal is always on feeling better, how do you actually grow as a person when we
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know that our feelings are not facts, feelings are also fleeting.
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And I think that we have gotten so wrapped up in validating people that we have not created
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Um, it's a real issue because I always go back to mental health is not the absence of
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And if you don't learn to accept that real truth and or reality, I don't know how you can
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truly exist amongst others or just in this world.
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I think anytime that, anytime that empathy is not coupled with accountability, then I don't
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think that that is a reflection of kindness or compassion.
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I think that when I think of empathy or the definition of empathy, it's what being able
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But I also think that if I, if I place myself within your shoes, I also still need to understand
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And that's where that personal responsibility comes, comes back to, uh, play.
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Cause I've been called or people have said now that I speak about mental health in the
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And I remember when I first went viral, I was like, Oh my gosh, that really hurts because
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Now, how I choose to express that may not be in alignment with how people want to hear
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And I make the joke, I have, I have, I have a 10 year old.
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It would be like, you know, when I think of soccer, like we all want the kids that can,
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I'm not going to tell my kid that he's good when there's an opportunity for him to improve.
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Like to me, that would be toxic empathy because the goal is to build people up.
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And I can't build you up if the focus is always on affirming and or validating you.
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how do I not fall victim to trying to convince you of truth and creating connection?
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I think people have lost the art of being able to connect without conceding or have compassion
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Like I think of the analogy we're talking about our kids.
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Like if your child comes down and is like, Oh, there's a monster in the corner of my room.
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You can express understanding and have compassion for them.
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But the loving thing to do is not to send them back to the room and say, you're right.
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It's to show them the truth and to say, understand that you're scared, but your fear actually isn't
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Look, because even if that does hurt their feelings temporarily, that's the better thing
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And that fear is going to grow into something bigger.
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It's the same analogy that you gave with soccer.
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You know, if he thinks he's, who's a soccer star?
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You talk about like the danger of emotionally rescuing people.
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It goes back to validation and affirming people.
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So when we, when we talk about emotionally rescuing someone, right, it's, if you tell me
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that you're sad right now, right, the goal is most people, what they'll do is they'll wrap
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If I was feeling this way, I would feel this way oftentimes.
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And I think that, and this is something that I've been trying to figure out myself because
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I know that I do it well, but it's learning to actually articulate it and explain it.
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And I don't validate all emotions because it's internal data.
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And if it's internal data for you, you have to learn to work with that information in the
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So I always tell people, is it something that you need to learn from?
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Is it something that you actually need to feel because you're avoiding whatever this
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And most people, a lot of the mental health conversations are centered around, like, it's
00:19:39.880
Like, everything doesn't necessarily deserve a seat at the table.
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It's more so for you to be aware of and acknowledging your emotions, which is how I don't understand
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how we've gotten into these conversations around, I don't know, your emotions matter or
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No, it matters because it's internal data for you.
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And in order for you to figure out how to navigate the world, you're going to have to understand
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Because sadness may not show up for the same way for the both of us, just based off of how
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I have heard that phrase so much, all feelings are valid.
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And I just think about the word, I always like to think about defining my terms and valid
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Like, if something is valid, that is representative of a reality.
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But that's not really true when it comes to our feelings.
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And I even talked to someone who's like head of SEL at a school.
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And she was saying that she teaches these like kindergartners that all feelings are valid.
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And I'm like, well, I don't know that I want, you know, my five-year-old to hear that her
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jealousy of her sister, her anger that she has to share is valid.
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And I just think that's not the best message for anyone to hear, especially kids.
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I teach them to be able to express themselves, learning to figure out what you have internalized
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to figure out how you want to actually move forward.
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I mean, I teach my 10-year-old that, I mean, even though he'll say, it's more about my thoughts.
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Like we've already talked about it a little bit, but when we're parenting, like how do
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we create these resilient kids who can overcome hard feelings and hard circumstances instead
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of just, you know, empathizing and affirming with every single difficult thing they go through?
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I think with children, I think it's a lot easier because those opportunities are always
00:21:58.240
presenting themselves, whether it's your kid comes home and says that someone picked on
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The first thing is not to say, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry.
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The truth is like people will say things that doesn't necessarily align.
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Well, people will say things that are not always kind, but I always, I'll use my son for,
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I remember when he first came home and he had told me, mom, that people are picking on me
00:22:24.880
about the size of my head and there's some truth there.
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I didn't get wrapped up on, I acknowledge that it hurts when people are not saying night,
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what you consider to be nice things, but it was also son, you have to learn to live what
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And because of that, how do you learn to accept how God has made you?
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And I think that when, just in general, when it comes to these mental health conversations,
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I think that the spirituality part is missing there because if I am made in his image or fearfully
00:23:06.580
and wonderfully made, there are some things that you're going to have to learn to accept
00:23:13.940
And that's not always coupled with compassion and even kindness all the time.
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Do you agree also with what I've heard from a lot of like parenting experts that we need
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to allow our kids to feel difficult feelings like boredom?
00:24:59.300
Like I think all of us kind of like want to alleviate difficult feelings for our kids,
00:25:04.000
including just feeling bored or not knowing what to do.
00:25:07.780
Do you think that we should be doing a better job as parents at letting our kids work through
00:25:23.000
Because I think that you have to learn how to resolve things on your own.
00:25:28.320
I have a 10-year-old and I have a three-year-old and my three-year-old is, he's just different.
00:25:34.880
He has his own way of being and I want to be able to nurture that.
00:25:39.560
And when I look at him, I see an older adult in him, right?
00:25:44.380
Like people are going to have to learn how to work with him and he's going to have to
00:25:58.920
And I think it's actually when the other day when they were fighting, they somehow figured
00:26:05.740
it out and then they went and got a bucket of water and was playing with duckies in it.
00:26:15.380
And I think that we have forgotten that people will figure things out if you create the space
00:26:21.120
And I think that children is the best example because these opportunities always present
00:26:26.960
themselves, whether it's us as parents apologizing for how we show up.
00:26:31.840
If our children are in sports, like you're not going to always have a great day.
00:26:40.400
I tell my 10 year old today, like if he tells me that my stomach hurts, mommy, and I don't
00:26:45.480
think I'm going to be able to go out in the field.
00:26:49.140
I think it's your responsibility to let your coach know that you don't feel well.
00:26:53.560
And if you don't feel well, you also have a responsibility to the team.
00:26:56.960
To say, pull me off of the field because I'm not able to give my best right now.
00:27:01.880
So I don't have those conversations for my children in any way because I'm thinking about
00:27:11.100
That's a good, very like practical thing there that, okay, if you really feel bad, then you
00:27:18.120
will have the courage to go and tell your coach.
00:27:21.500
And even that like little bit of an awkward conversation, the child might feel awkward,
00:27:31.320
Have you read, I'm sure you've seen like Jonathan Haidt's work, The Anxious Generation,
00:27:35.900
and he talks a lot about cultivating independence in our kids.
00:27:40.880
Like, and I did this the other day, actually, and I was sitting right there, very low risk
00:27:45.040
situation, but still, you know, we were at Chick-fil-A, six-year-old, she wanted to get
00:27:51.480
I told her that she could go get a cookie and I said, but you have to go order it.
00:27:56.080
And I gave her my credit card and she went over there and I took a little picture of
00:28:00.660
her, but she went over there and she asked for a cookie, just one cookie.
00:28:06.220
She put her little card on the reader and she did great.
00:28:09.080
Again, not high risk, but it just reminded me, because it's just easier for us to do
00:28:15.600
It would have been easier for you to call the coach and be like, hey, but we as parents
00:28:20.660
have to take the extra time to allow our kids to do the little bit of a difficult thing.
00:28:28.540
I just finished potty training my son and he's so happy to be able to say that I did it.
00:28:36.460
And I don't think that we're any different from that.
00:28:40.520
Like we feel empowered when we know that we can carry our low or the weight of the world
00:28:48.400
in a way that continues to push us forward or move us forward.
00:29:01.100
So capacity is actually a term that's rooted in adult development.
00:29:06.460
So when I was looking for something to help me on my own journey, because the very basic
00:29:13.360
of what we were talking about in mental health, it didn't have enough substance for me.
00:29:21.620
He talks about these forms of mind and how we develop over time.
00:29:25.280
And that's where the concept of capacity came from.
00:29:28.880
But I knew that the way that we as a society think about capacity is from weight, volume,
00:29:37.580
And capacity in the lens and from the lenses or the perspective of adult development was
00:29:43.200
more so about what can you produce consistently?
00:29:47.280
And are you paying attention to what you can produce consistently?
00:29:50.240
And if you end up being proud of what you're producing consistently, it represents your emotional
00:29:59.020
Robert Keegan, he talks about 70% of the adult population live with a socialized mindset.
00:30:07.620
What that means is, and I'll use my own journey.
00:30:11.420
Okay, Raquel is now a part of the mental health industry, right?
00:30:14.940
Will you succumb to this trend or will you speak from your values?
00:30:22.280
And what most people will do is they'll say, okay, I'm a mental health professional.
00:30:30.400
And what ends up happening is you start to lose yourself more and more and more over time
00:30:36.180
because it's more so about this sense of belonging.
00:30:40.640
And the sense of belonging can also have a shrinking in different ways.
00:30:51.780
When it comes to a sense of belonging, that is like an inherent need and desire for us as humans.
00:30:59.000
But it's also like a double-edged sword because if sense of belonging is so important,
00:31:06.080
if you don't have the ability to detach from it at times, you can limit your growth.
00:31:13.300
So let's just say I wouldn't be having this conversation with you right now
00:31:18.980
if I had the urge to be connected with mental health professionals.
00:31:29.520
What I saw as producing on social media wasn't a reflection of what mental health was really about.
00:31:38.740
And if I went into some of my deeper values, it just wasn't in alignment.
00:31:43.100
So the desire not to be associated with mental health professionals and or to be accepted
00:31:50.120
and being okay with being misunderstood is the very reason why I'm sitting here on this couch with you,
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So the socialization mindset is basically acceptance at all costs.
00:33:34.960
Even if I, and when you're talking about losing yourself, you're talking about basically compromise.
00:33:39.420
Compromising your values, compromising the truth just so people will like you.
00:33:44.480
And to me, that is like the road that leads to what we often call institutional capture.
00:33:50.880
It's how like a college or an entity or an organization gets captured by a particular ideology.
00:33:57.300
And I do think the mental health institution in general has been captured by this feelings
00:34:03.460
first, me-centric, fragile mindset that has made people just very dependent and not resilient.
00:34:14.740
And so it seems to me that a lot of the mental health industry is doing the very opposite of
00:34:19.600
Not helping people expand their capacity, but actually reducing their capacity to only being
00:34:27.160
And I, yeah, it's such a, it's a difficult conversation, especially when we're talking
00:34:37.160
about capacity, because my capacity is not necessarily going to reflect your capacity and vice versa.
00:34:42.940
So I think it's important to know that we won't all have the same capacity.
00:34:47.660
The question more so is asking ourselves, am I positioning myself to avoid things because
00:35:00.660
Because we won't all have, like, we won't all show up in the world the same way because
00:35:07.560
Our purpose, our calling may be completely different.
00:35:11.440
But it's, like, making sure that you don't stop at what's hard because it presents a challenge
00:35:18.280
for what you think your current capacity is, which is why I talk about the label so much.
00:35:23.320
Like, when you hear people now, anxiety and ADHD, I'm like, when did it ever become okay to
00:35:33.240
make those things a part of your identity so much when I say that living with ADHD or anxiety
00:35:43.020
It just means that maybe you will have to navigate the world a little differently than what someone
00:35:47.840
else may, but that doesn't mean that your potential changes.
00:35:53.580
It just means that you may have to work at this harder than someone else does.
00:36:01.740
But like you said, is that diagnosis just putting yourself in a position to avoid hard things?
00:36:07.320
And I think we all would have to be honest with ourself about that because there's probably
00:36:11.460
a lot of excuses that we make for ourselves of why we're not doing X, Y, Z.
00:36:16.060
And maybe sometimes they're real, but maybe sometimes we're just trying to avoid hard feelings.
00:36:22.040
I mean, I know that I'm in this season where I'm working on discipline.
00:36:28.380
And I am disciplined in a lot of areas of my life.
00:36:31.920
But when it comes to my eating habits, like the self-control is not there.
00:36:37.900
And I can sit here and make up a bunch of excuses or I can just say, you lack discipline.
00:36:42.320
Does that mean that I'm not compassionate with myself?
00:36:45.200
Like it's hard to grow if you don't create space to be compassionate.
00:36:50.780
But I think it's really hard to grow when you're not honest with yourself.
00:36:57.220
Gosh, it can be so popular to blame all of our problems on other people, which really
00:37:06.000
Eve blamed the snake when really ultimately we have to take responsibility.
00:37:12.240
Like you can still acknowledge that you have challenges like in different seasons of life.
00:37:18.780
I love what you said like to your son that, okay, but this thing is kind of true.
00:37:24.120
It doesn't mean that people should make fun of you.
00:37:28.400
But this is a reality and they might not accept it.
00:37:35.020
And I think if we focus more on that, like what can I do?
00:37:39.020
Then that's actually a lot more liberating because we can't control what other people
00:37:44.860
And I know that when I'm trying to do that, that is actually what wears me out.
00:37:49.120
And that actually reduces my capacity because then I'm not focused on what I can accomplish.
00:37:54.460
I'm so distracted by trying to control everyone else.
00:37:57.900
I, you know, I was thinking of, because I do read the comments, even though they say don't
00:38:04.260
And sometimes I read the comments more from an accountability standpoint for myself.
00:38:11.900
Because when you're passionate about something, you can start to silence people.
00:38:21.780
So I was thinking about, because I am a big proponent of, or a big advocate for personal
00:38:27.400
responsibility, I think that what I would want people to know is when we, when we're seeing
00:38:35.240
personal responsibility, that does not mean that other challenges or certain barriers may
00:38:42.720
But what does not change is it may not have been your fault.
00:38:46.200
You may not have caused it, but it still is your responsibility.
00:38:48.880
And I think that when we fall victim to wanting to pick and choose when we accept universal
00:38:55.060
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I don't, and when I say it's a disconnection from your heart, it's a disconnection from understanding
00:40:53.140
It's also another form of revealing the lack of capacity that you have.
00:40:58.780
I think that burnout has become a catch-all phrase for people that don't know how to advocate
00:41:05.400
for themselves, people that are not comfortable making hard decisions.
00:41:11.740
Sometimes you may have to say you have to step away from the job, but if you're more concerned
00:41:15.680
about the money that you make, you may still put yourself in position to still experience burnout
00:41:29.100
That's what happens when you experience burnout, and I say that from a personal place.
00:41:35.380
When I experienced burnout, it was because I did not want to face some very hard truth
00:41:46.380
So burnout is not just about working too many hours.
00:41:50.240
Like, because, I mean, you could work 100 hours and not feel burnout based off of whatever
00:41:57.300
But I think that life is always going to ask you, you know, who is it that you are and who
00:42:05.180
Like, right now, I'm managing a full-time job, my two children, my husband.
00:42:10.920
This social media has taken on a life for itself, and I feel very fulfilled.
00:42:23.420
No, because I am choosing everything that I have on my plate today.
00:42:29.380
You and I are very blessed to be able to do something professionally that we love, that
00:42:38.240
And we could do it a lot, like you said, without ever feeling totally depleted.
00:42:42.440
But there are people out there who, that's just not their season of life.
00:42:47.200
Maybe they're in a job that they have to have, but they don't love it.
00:42:52.320
Now, how, like, how would you coach someone through that, that, okay, you're not in your
00:42:57.780
dream job, but this is where you are right now.
00:43:02.420
I think one of the greatest skills for humans is your meaning making.
00:43:07.660
And when I say your meaning making, what I'm referring to is not necessarily a way to cope
00:43:22.740
I think that we have to, we have to acknowledge that we're still making a choice, right?
00:43:31.220
In order to, to live, but get clear about why you're choosing this particular job.
00:43:38.700
For example, I always say it's a, it's a, I use this pain gain model, like what's the
00:43:44.740
cost to staying here and what's the pain of deciding to walk away.
00:43:50.060
And when you can make the distinction between those two, I think that it pulls you away from
00:43:54.560
focusing on burnout because I always say the greatest freedom is the freedom of choice.
00:43:59.300
And as much as we feel like we don't always have choice, you do.
00:44:03.400
And I like to remind people of the choices that you do have, even though you don't enjoy
00:44:11.680
And I think that that's where we can get wrapped up in the feelings part.
00:44:15.540
Now, if I had a client that I was working with one-on-one, of course, I'm going to acknowledge
00:44:19.160
and validate, but it still doesn't change that you're choosing.
00:44:22.780
So how do we, like, if you're in the midst, not just a job, but anything that's
00:44:30.960
You're saying that you are, you're choosing how you respond, right?
00:44:38.980
You're even choosing the feelings that you give airtime to.
00:44:43.140
Cause maybe, I don't know, you could tell me how you think about this, but when I think
00:44:46.700
of feelings, I don't know if I necessarily can choose every single feeling that starts
00:44:51.200
to, you know, pop up or every thought that pops into my head that I'm like, you know,
00:44:59.500
I can choose what I bring center stage and what I dwell on, right?
00:45:04.920
So you're, so going back to these feelings, right?
00:45:09.060
I like to make a distinction between emotions and feelings.
00:45:15.700
Like if something were there, if we had a loud, loud bang in the studio right now, we
00:45:26.040
It could be fear that that shows up, but how you and I express that will not be the same.
00:45:31.380
And then the feelings is the interpretation of those emotions.
00:45:34.960
So, which is why emotions like these conversations around being emotional, emotionally intelligent
00:45:40.660
are difficult because you don't have control over emotions hitting you.
00:45:44.920
If you get a phone call that you just lost someone, most people will probably go into a
00:45:49.880
state of shock or you might immediately start to, to cry.
00:45:54.960
What is different and, or unique for each person is how you end up expressing those emotions
00:46:04.300
And then because we're humans, we get into the feelings or the thoughts.
00:46:07.380
It's the stories that we start to associate with those emotions.
00:46:14.180
The stories that we start to associate with those emotions.
00:46:18.680
So let's just say we did hear loud popping here right now, right?
00:46:22.860
And then the, the, the guys tell us like everything is okay, but I'm like, I don't know.
00:46:27.380
Like the world has gotten to be this crazy place.
00:46:31.940
I can no longer focus, even though they've said like everything is, is good.
00:46:36.260
So I have, instead of taking that information that, that whether the fear or the surprise that
00:46:42.360
I've gotten, just acknowledging it, what I've done is I've moved into my feelings, which
00:46:47.700
is I have these world beliefs about like how the world is changing and how dangerous it
00:46:54.100
So I can no longer focus on our conversation anymore.
00:46:58.180
So that becomes an interpretation that I've assigned to fear.
00:47:03.840
I think about this just how, with how we feel about ourselves sometimes, like you have a
00:47:12.180
Maybe that person didn't mean anything, but you are then attaching a new story to your
00:47:19.840
And you don't even realize maybe that you've started creating a whole, like a whole different
00:47:24.880
story about this person and what they meant and what they're thinking and what they're
00:47:28.320
saying behind your back and what they're doing.
00:47:30.020
And really you've just kind of created a narrative that you've attached to a feeling that you
00:47:36.380
And it's possible to even start including other people in that story completely unfairly.
00:47:45.080
So because it just using the insecurities, let's just say that, um, I say something in regards
00:47:52.100
to an insecurity that you have that I don't know.
00:47:54.420
Can you hold space or can you carry the sadness that comes with that insecurity versus making
00:48:02.780
Can you be honest and say like what Raquel just said, um, it has me feeling sad because
00:48:09.220
I haven't learned how to work through this insecurity.
00:48:12.940
I don't know if I'll ever be able to move on from this insecurity.
00:48:19.820
And it's okay to acknowledge that without like spinning up the stories.
00:48:24.080
And it really, that really should make us think about every feeling that we have that
00:48:27.920
passes through us of what story am I attaching to this emotion?
00:48:33.120
And something I've been thinking about, you can tell me what you think about it is I think
00:48:37.360
when we make ourselves the main character of every story, we become very easily offended.
00:48:43.360
We become very anxious because you start to see everything is about you.
00:48:51.740
That person did, did that because they, they don't want me to do this.
00:48:58.200
You start thinking you have control of everyone.
00:49:01.120
And to me, like when you just remove yourself from that main character position, when you say,
00:49:08.040
It actually is really freeing because you realize that not everyone's trying to hurt you or get you
00:49:15.440
It takes humility and a few of those other capacity traits that I would say to get to that place.
00:49:21.300
I think what comes to my mind when you say that I did a video on your pain is not unique and or special.
00:49:28.040
And what made me think of creating that video was it's almost like people, a lot of people today feel like
00:49:37.660
they have a monopoly on pain and just struggle and adversity.
00:49:45.520
And when you start to really understand humans, it's like everybody, it's going through something.
00:49:55.040
And that's part of what's in within adult development, right?
00:49:59.300
You're able to separate yourself subject versus object.
00:50:04.180
And if I am is the center of your world, you never can step outside of self long enough to see how all of these things are interconnected and start to really hold complexity.
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You talk about how God and faith, they actually increase your capacity.
00:52:00.620
So if capacity is about what you can consistently produce, I think that being grounded in something is,
00:52:12.460
that doesn't give you an out, end, or pass when circumstances reveal otherwise is what creates sustainability.
00:52:27.220
Okay, you might have to break that down for us who don't have our double master's and almost doctorate.
00:52:34.760
So I'll go back and I'll use myself as an example.
00:52:42.460
There are times where I would really like to default to how I feel, right?
00:53:01.300
And I was nervous about coming on to your podcast because being in the spotlight is very new for me.
00:53:11.400
And when we talk about context, I understand, or not understand, I know I'm a black woman, right?
00:53:19.920
And there are certain things that I understand from my own experiences.
00:53:27.160
The fear was, going back to what I was speaking about earlier about this socialized mindset,
00:53:35.200
I am still very much so a part of the community, right?
00:53:42.620
But if I go back to my belief in God, is how do you separate yourself so that you can continue to open yourself up to love just in general?
00:53:54.200
So I was nervous about being placed in a political box because if you notice with my content, I don't even really talk about my faith.
00:54:03.160
I try to let my words reflect who I am and what I believe in.
00:54:09.620
So you were nervous because it's a conservative podcast and most of your community is not?
00:54:17.120
But there are still things that I am having to work through as I become stronger in my own faith.
00:54:25.640
And some of that is not centering parts of my identity as well.
00:54:31.880
So coming on to your podcast, it was like, oh, my gosh, now they're going to say that I'm this and I'm this and I'm that.
00:54:37.020
It's like, can you handle the heat and or the pressure that may come with that?
00:54:42.880
Because I've already experienced that in some ways, right?
00:54:45.760
Where I go within my own community and there's a sense of rejection because I'm not speaking the same language that they may be speaking.
00:54:56.380
Like, do you understand how people view you and what your experiences are?
00:55:01.820
But do you can you hold enough space for all of the things so that you you can connect with a person like Allie without making judgments about who she who she is?
00:55:11.800
So I would tell you that when I when I started, like, looking at your videos and I was like, she loves the Lord.
00:55:19.400
And I was like, what do I see in myself in her?
00:55:26.180
It was not everybody's going to understand what it means to truly be passionate about something.
00:55:37.000
So am I OK with being, I guess, crucified or judged because I'm on a conservative podcast?
00:55:47.360
You'll get a lot more encouragement than you will negativity, although maybe not from maybe from people outside of the people that you fear criticizing you.
00:55:59.080
But there will be a lot of people who are super excited to hear from you.
00:56:03.760
We have the reason, you know, why I had you on is because I wrote not just toxic empathy, but the first book, you're not enough escaping the toxic culture of self-love.
00:56:13.560
And whenever I was sent your stuff, I was like, yes, I don't see a lot of people outside of like my conservative realm or certainly not in the mental health profession talking about that, that, oh, these things that you have heard are universally positive and should be the center of your life.
00:56:36.700
And it and I so I do appreciate your courage in that, because, you know, like you said, if you just wanted to be popular, you could just repeat the same mantras as every other, you know, psychologist has ever said that it's all about you, that you're perfect the way you are, that you're enough.
00:56:52.600
There's nothing you need to change around you and that everything is everyone else's fault.
00:57:04.320
There's a monetary factor in creating a monetary factor in creating victims.
00:57:11.420
I do believe that we see it and we we see it today.
00:57:15.640
I've had conversations with other people and they're like, well, I would have never touched this conversation with a thousand foot pole.
00:57:31.220
Do you think do you see more people saying, OK, I actually need some tough love?
00:57:35.780
I think I am seeing more encouragement than criticism.
00:57:41.020
And I think it goes back to this whole concept of capacity.
00:57:44.420
When you were asking me about like God and faith, I'm not saying that you have to be a Christian in order to follow me.
00:57:51.260
But there are some universal truths, no matter what religion that you believe in, because we're all spiritual beings as as well.
00:57:58.380
So I decided when I decided to come out and speak, I decided I was going to speak to people.
00:58:04.380
The things that make Ali and I similar, the same.
00:58:10.080
And I think it's hard for people to turn that off because I'm speaking to sort of like your your your core.
00:58:20.700
I definitely think that there's like a new push right now and a new desire for people to hear the truth.
00:58:27.440
I think people are kind of tired of being coddled.
00:58:31.560
I think there, you know, we went through a period of everyone just hearing what they wanted to hear and they're like, hang on, arrested development for a second.
00:58:39.160
Like I didn't get all of the growth that I needed to because people just coddled me for so long.
00:58:44.980
And, you know, it's like, you know, eating cupcakes for every meal.
00:58:50.800
And then you're like, oh, no, I need to exercise and eat some vegetables again.
00:58:55.600
And I want to believe that that's kind of where we are when it comes to mental health, that people are waking up, that resilience and capacity and strength actually matter.
00:59:06.880
Yeah, I think that I think that where we got lost is because in order to develop your capacity, you do have to develop people emotionally.
00:59:15.580
And there were so many conversations about people suppressing their emotions, not being honest about how they felt and the stigma around just people not wanting to talk about their struggles in general.
00:59:29.240
And I think that that's where the conversation has gotten lost.
00:59:40.280
How do we create communities of empowerment where we can talk about our struggles while also not victimizing people?
00:59:50.660
Because I don't believe that you can grow if all you ever give a person is tough love or you say just pull yourself up by your bootstraps.
01:00:01.380
Like I hold space for all the difficult emotions that I experience.
01:00:06.280
I'm vulnerable with the people that I'm comfortable with.
01:00:12.760
And that's how you continue to grow and evolve.
01:00:16.420
And I'm very honest about like I don't want to be stuck.
01:00:20.960
I don't want to be so wrapped up and self-centered in myself that I don't produce something meaningful.
01:00:31.200
Where can people find you and read more of what you put out?
01:00:37.580
Raquel, the capacity expert is where you can find me.
01:00:44.420
Well, Raquel, thank you so much for taking the time to join us and sharing your wisdom with us.
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